Everton pull out of Java Cup

This is about to explode, Conor McAleny just tweeted that the tournament has been cancelled, another glorious pre-season cock-up. The whole situation is becoming rather farcical at this stage, let's see Elstone and the boys lay blame on the organisers. Hopefully they do something for the diehard fans that spent money going over there.

So, it seems we're scared of Indonesia. The club have pulled out having not received some guarantees they were looking for. Not good on many levels...

So where does that leave our preperations for pre-season?

Probably against The Red Bulls and Fenerbahce in lieu of transfer funds.

Noel, it seems to me that it is the fault of the organisers.

Do you know something different?

No surprise that something involving Everton goes tits up, even if it's not the club's fault.

Noel #577, having worked on and around events in Asia for several years, it is more than plausible that things were not to the club's liking, and hence they've taken the decision they've taken.

I've seen much bigger tournaments and events than this cancelled for a variety of reasons, with responsibility down to organisers, governments or shady agents. In this day and age there's a lot of reputational risk and the club is on show to fans, governments, and current / potential sponsors, even buyers. It's no longer a case of the lads going on the piss for a few days for a kick about and a round of golf with some businessmen.

How is this Everton's fault?

I think it's pretty obvious the club smelled a rat when Galatasaray pulled out and started asking questions, sound like a good decision based on the information {or lack of it} that the club had, very sad for any supporters that have gone over there though.

Sorry, of course it's not all Everton's fault – my previous post was just poorly worded, but Matt (#627) you say things like this are a regular occurence in Asia all the time. I ask why go to Indonesia in the first place? – trekking all over the world, it's not like Australia where we had the Tim Cahill factor and what seems like a big fan base and potential for more; I dont see any connection with Indonesia in the first place.

America is the market we should be trying to exploit instead of letting the Reds take over there as well, they have new documentaries in the pipeline and from what I heard have a large advertising campaign on the go. We have had the most famous American players play for Everton in the last few years and fans over there can't even buy an Everton jersey.

This trip has been rumoured to have been in trouble going back a couple of weeks... why wait until the day the squad are supposed to depart to cancel? More importantly, I'm sure many supporters have already departed – they are the real losers in all of this. So I'm sorry if I came across as saying this seems like all Everton's fault – no doubt organisers are too blame also... but our club hasn't exactly covered itself in glory this summer by its incompetence.

Why do some people ALWAYS want to blame Everton when something goes wrong, even when it seems pretty obvious that the fault lies elsewhere? Are they Everton fans or spies from another camp trying to undermine our fans whenever possible?

Come on guys, get a grip, get real, or go and piss on someone else´s bonfire.

Does anyone know if there'll be other games pencilled in and whether they will be on EvertonTV?

I would be very surprised if any blame was actually at Everton's feet in this. LPIS can barely keep their own league up and running, let alone organize a tournament up to the standards of large European clubs.

Just look at last night's friendly between QPR and Persebaya 1927 Surabaya. The (new) stadium is less than a kilometer from the local rubbish tip – the smell travels much farther – and there were three blackouts because the organizers chose to use generators instead of the local power grid.

LPIS, like many others here, specializes in promising much and delivering little. It was just Everton's bad luck to get caught up in their shenanigans.

I am sure Everton have done their homework and made the right decision. It's a long way to travel amidst uncertainty. Better to bite the bullet and stay closer to home with what games we have left to get the players in shape both mentally and physically.

Noel #640, it's not like Jakarta isn't able to host it. I was at the final of the AFC Asian Cup in 2007 in the same stadium, and the event organisers did a terrific job (the tournament was co-hosted by FOUR countries!) FIFA delegates were there, and were also suitably impressed.

Contracts will have been signed, and Everton will have given the organisers every opportunity to get things right, but there comes a decision point. As an example, there was supposed to be a big tennis exhibition tournament in Penang, Malaysia a couple of years back. They spent money on building a temporary stadium, all the marketing etc. but the players were prevented boarding planes to fly there as the payment to the rights holder hadn't been made. Organisers were blaming government officials, vice versa.

It could've been over money, accommodation, security or anything. But having seen it done first hand, when we were in minibuses escorted with outriders to get to the stadium (the only time I've ever gone above 15mph in Jakarta) it's probably more likely the organiser was trying to do it on the cheap.

You can be dealing with middle men and lots of suppliers with these things, it only needs one to fuck it up.

And ask why we should be playing in Indonesia, or Asia in general? Where do you think all the new money is coming from? The growth in overseas broadcast, the emergence of new sponsors? Arsenal played in Indonesia last season (Fabregas was there!), and have a soccer school in Singapore, and new ones springing up in China. Probably not going to find the next Park Ji Sung, but they don't cost anything - in fact they generate license payments, and everyone knows who they are.

Brian, people always want to blame the club as year in year out we are involved in constant balls ups, it's obviously the organisers fault but why do we never look closely at possible issues, you know like wanting and starting to build on land we don't own (Park End)

Good for Everton - don't let people fuck us about. No guarantees sod em.
Fenerbache sod em. Spurs sod em.

In fact - fuck'em all.

Crackers to blame the club without the facts, I am moderately impressed that know one has proclaimed, "Moyes out"

"Our forward planning/security team deployed to Jakarta at the weekend have repeatedly asked for clarity and assurances from the organisers on the issues but unfortunately have not received the answers we required in the timeframe necessary to ensure our participation"

At least this load of freebooters had a good time in Jakarta. Wonder what really happened over there?

So is it back to Tranmere* then?

*Once mentioned in a Benny Hill record.

Looks like it is the first team against the ressies...

Twice.

This trip was only announced about a month ago. Does lastminute.com organise any other Premier League teams’ pre-seasons? I always thought planning for the pre-season started well in advance. Evidently not. The words “piss-up” and “brewery” spring to mind.

Headline in the Guardian
The Leveson inquiry: Moyes, Kenright and Everton Board Blamed for Phone Hacking.
Headline in the Mirror
Trapped under 400 tonnes of rock': Rescuers Blame Everton Board for Landslide
BBC Headline Fighter jets have bombed eastern areas of Syria's second city Aleppo; Moyes blamed for ordering the attack

Headline in every paper in the country:

Everton suffer yet another slow start: Moyes absolved of all blame.

Everton marketing a shambles: Kenwright is only the chairman.

Another year without a trophy: Moyes absolved of all blame/

Sam #719, if more than one jet was used, it can't have been Moyes that gave the order. Don't you know he only employs one striker?

This happened not too long ago too with a trip to Ghana.

Or somewhere near there.

Cue our best start to the season for years...

Can't we all be happy that players are not travelling thousands of miles?

Hmmm...wonder who will be free to play at such short notice? Maybe Galatasaray might have a free weekend?

Galatasaray pulled out because they felt the the amount awarded to then cannot cover the cost:
http://www.pathlightstudios.com/2012/06/galatasary-not-participate-in-java-cup.html

The replacement team is not Nacional as reported but the Indonesia senior team:

http://www.goal.com/en-my/news/3896/malaysia/2012/07/24/3260869/indonesian-national-side-could-be-asked-to-come-in-and

Hope the flight tickets weren't non-refundable.

Having worked in and lived in Indonesia for many years this does not surprise me in the slightest. This inefficient country runs on corruption from the top down and the bottom up. It is virtually impossible to get anything done properly here and if the locals do it you have to allow double the European time to do it then budget to have it done again properly.

So have Everton made the correct decision and are their reasons right – well in my experience and my opinion they are definitely correct.

If Everton want to do a high profile Asia trip they would be far better off sticking to Thailand or Malaysia or even China. Indonesia while football crazy was always a bad choice for all the reasons I detailed in my previous post.

I posted weeks ago that these expensive jaunts for the boys do nothing to help in fitness or teamwork and are just a burden on a 'supposedly' cash strapped club. Flying halfway around the world when most of our players are only just getting back from the Euros or injury... A better idea would be a tour of Scotland or Scandinavia. We never get off to a good start after Australia and other long distance tours. I just hope the organisers don't drag our club through the courts for compensation or that's the Baines money gone!

Noel Early (#640),

I don't agree with your first post but I do with #640.

Everton should come over here to the US like they have done 3 times since I've lived here (Utah, Houston and Denver) and generate some interest – plus the players could load up with cheap jeans and fags.

Liverpool are over here – and there's also a documentary series about Liverpool last season being broadcast soon on the Fox Soccer Channel – no doubt something to do with the fact that they have American owners and they want to raise the profile of Liverpool in the US.

Personally, I think they should be showing it on the Comedy Network.....

Paul #652 "and there were three blackouts because the organizers chose to use generators instead of the local power grid. "

If you'd eve been to any of these countries you'd know that generators are more reliable than the local power grid (provided they've got a back up fuel tank).

Eric Myles # 828 Paul obviously has not been to Bali much. Here we get rolling 'blackouts' all times of the day an night and have been for the past two years now. Having a generator at home is essential if you want to lead a normal life here. ALL the Tourist Hotels have them too.

@Eric #828 & Peter #835: I've lived in Jakarta for four years, thanks, though I've spent just one week on Bali (Pulau Macan is closer, has way less traffic and fewer people treating bules like walking ATMs).

A couple local journalists I know tell me that the organizers are now blustering about suing Everton and Galatasaray. This is all for domestic consumption, of course, and in keeping with the grand Indonesian tradition of not accepting any blame for anything at any time. It's much easier to blame a bunch of foreigners who will never darken your door again than do anything that would result in losing face. This will all be swept under the rug in a month or two.

Indonesia is a huge potential market and football is the only thing that rivals Islam in popularity here, but it's not hard to see why so many clubs prefer to tour Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, China, etc. The headaches, inefficiencies and shortfalls (such as those that Peter mentioned) far outweigh the benefits of a five-day cameo appearance.

We were never going to go to this tournament. Plane tickets were never purchased, accommodation was never booked. They only said we were so they could "cancel" at the last minute and say we lost money on the trip and subsequent compensation to Indonesia so they can have another summer of selling and no buying - "The cheque was in the mail for Pienaar, but we lost money on the Asia trip so it bounced."

In all seriousness, we've been to Asia before, we've had an Asian beer on our shirt for nearly 10 years, and we had a cult hero Chinese player for a couple of seasons and we still never made anything out of the continent. Forget it and focus on North America.

Oh dear our club couldn't organize a cup of coffee, we really are a laughing stock !!!

Roman, Post 880:

To say we never made it on this continent is something that is untrue. You don't live here firstly so naturally you can't comment. For a fact, I do.

Secondly, in this Java Cup case, I can surely say it's due to the organisers. I lived in Jakarta for a year and I know how things move there.

Lastly, a lot of clubs have had success in dealings with Asian countries, its players etc. Perhaps our pathetic financial state as minimised our chances of the similar success. But that does not mean Asia is a bad place to spread our name and market and source players.

With our current financial state. let North America alone, we won't even brand ourselves well in Africa......

Who are we playing now? Our next game is now a week Sunday whilst everyone else is stepping it up. It is farcical, whether it is the club's fault or not. It is not the first time we have cancelled like this.

We're getting sued now for not going. Good luck with that one.

Paul Freelend # 876 I used to live in Jakarta too from 1998 -2001 even built a house there in Cengkareng out by the Airport. I now have lived in Bali for the last 3 years having spent the previous 4 years in Bangkok. My wife is from Bekasi just outside Jakarta and wanted us to go and live there but no chance I have had my fill of Jakarta. I have also being doing business in Indonesia and Asia for over 20 years and you are absolutely correct about the Indonesian 'face' problem. It is the same all over Asia but worst of all in China and Indonesia. No one ever wants to tell you 'no' or to disappoint you so they just keep on talking and talking but getting nowhere and hope you will just give up and go away. Which seems to be the case with this imaginary tournament.
I also learned early on how to tell when an Indonesian is lying its easy really its when his lips are moving.

There has been no 'local' i.e. Indonesian advertising for the tournament and as far as I know the matches were not scheduled to be shown on any Indonesian TV channel . So the chances of the Indonesian 'chancers' making any case whatsoever for damages from either Everton of Galatasaray are extremely remote.

Not Everton's fault but why the hell were we playing some weird tournament to begin with??

North America is what we should focus on obviously. Going back to Joe Max-Moore and all of the great American players that have donned the Royal blue jersey, it is an easy decision to make and one they should've stuck with since 2000

However, Americans like winners and are more interested in the American players than a team that finishes roughly 8th every season. Plus, you can't find an Everton jersey over here to buy if your life depended on it.

Harjinder, I meant we haven't gotten anything out of the continent in terms of investment. Sure, Chang sponsor our jersey, but what do we get? Like £4m a season? Please.

I know that this is not Everton's fault. It is just typical that we happen to be involved in some mickey mouse pre-season tournament that went balls up.

Roman, it is largely Evertons fault that we have got relatively little out of the Chang Sponsorship. Forget the £4m that the shirt sponsorship pays. Shirt sponsorship in this day and age is largely worthless to brands so take it for what it is. It is increasingly difficult for clubs to sell their shirt sponsorship. So more and more shirt sponsorships are now becoming "partnerships" with clubs which have a far stronger impact for both parties. You may ask whats the difference between a sponsorship and a partnership, I promise you there is a vast difference.

What we have been looking for in the Chang relationship is for this to lead to further commercial opportunity in the Far East which is where the majority of incoming money in the PL is now coming. The problem is that, like in so many other areas (outsourcing retail and catering), the club hasnt the vision of ability to activate the partnership and vision as required.

Eek, I was correct in my earlier post above in thinking that the Indonesians could drag us through the courts over this. Didn't know we'd already been paid though: I can just see BK's next production - The Great Wok and Woll Swindle. Looks like it's going to be an expensive Cup of Java for Everton FC

Heh James – Very true. As I am living in Singapore, I can tell you Chang beer is doing something really right in their marketing aspect, I am sure they have a very capable team outreaching to the world. I am sure in time to come they will be a worldwide name.

But yes £4M is really pathetic, but would they want to invest any more in us when we ourselves are unsure of our vision and direction. So for now we are really dependent on Chang's outreach to help market Everton's name.

It will quite interesting though to see how much of Thailand now sees Everton as a club they support. I remember being there in Bangkok in 2005 when the team was there. Sadly I still think we are way below the traditional sides: Man Utd, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. Hopefully next pre-season where we have been promised a game in Thailand (to which I am sure to go), the response and the following is a lot greater...... Till then mates...... enjoy a Chang. :)

I live in indonesia and can say:

There was TV coverage of Fellaini arriving and being interviewed.

Subsequently there was no advertising for the games in newspaper, TV or internet. We applied for a ticket but all we got was a voucher saying that we had tickets when they were available – we got this on Monday 23rd with the game on the 27th.

It was also unclear who we were playing: Indonesia or Malaysia and then, even after we got the voucher, it was mooted we may be playing on the 26th instead.

It was totally the organisers cock-up – of course Everton had to pull out after the reserve team from Uruguay couldn't make it... if indeed they had been approached.

Galatasaray pulled out over a week ago.

Piss up in a brewery, organise, a, couldn't – please rearrange!

Roman #993, we've had Asian sponsors for the last decade with Thai Bev and Keijan before them. It's down to the club that we've not made as much out of it.

A few years ago Thai Bev had full wrap advertising on a load of buses in Singapore, pushing Chang, featuring various Everton players (Cahill, Arteta, and the by-then-departed Beattie). In 2009 for the Cup Final, Chang got in touch with the Supporters Club in Singapore and laid on an outdoor screening, free beer, free Everton-Chang hand towels, and allowed some of us to nick the ice buckets which were also branded.

A year before that I got an invite to the Thai Embassy in Orchard Road in Singapore, where they were having an outdoor party in the grounds. The barmaids were all wearing Everton tops... In 2005 when we played in the Asia Cup in Bangkok, Thai Bev did a big splash for that too.

All of this was done on the sponsors' initiative, as their contract allows them to do. What do Everton do? I've already said that we only got Chang to sponsor us as they got screwed over by Carlsberg, and that was part of the get-back.

Chelsea now have an office in Singapore, to deal with the Asian sponsor market. I've talked with many companies about sponsorship for various events, and a few years ago they were only interested in the top teams. Now with the reach of the overseas TV deal meaning that all teams are pretty much on live every game, and with the top teams commanding in excess of £20m in shirt sponsorship per season, these companies are recognising that mid-table teams may offer some value - Aston Villa and WBA last season tied up with Asian sponsors.

The market for sponsorship in Asia is huge. I'd wager more so than North America. But you've got to be active in tapping it.

Spot on Matt 078. We can't even buy Everton jersey or merchandise in Asia. Everton's marketing is a failure to say the least. Yet the passionate and die-hard Toffees still buy the stuff on-line. That's the only way to get anything but you'll find MU, City, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs even Newcastle original products here. What a shame... not even cheap fakes! I hope with Nike on board, things will change for the better.

You all are saying things I agree with. Whether it's our club's fault or not, our time with Asian interest hasn't had the full desired effect. Now we don't even have a high class AFC player! Focus on North America.

I noticed that my local team, Norwich have 2 home friendlies against the mighty Ajax and Borussia Moenchengladbach, charging 15 pounds entry for adults and a pound for under 16s.
Why don't we do that? Income of half a million and tough warm up games against attractive opposition- surely a far better and safer option than a Far East tour. No travelling and a chance to encourage new young supporters.