David Moyes is apparently considering sending Ross Barkley out on loan to the Championship this season to give him more first-team exposure.
The departure of Jack Rodwell this month seemed to have presented the 18 year-old starlet with the perfect opportunity to step up to a greater role in the Blues' midfield but Moyes believes Barkley will benefit from a stint away from Goodison Park to allow the youngster to flourish.
'I'm thinking about getting him some Championship experience," Moyes said.
"I want him to go out and play. It seems right. I remember David Beckham coming to play when I was at Preston.
"You've got to remember Ross is still a boy."
Barkley made an instant impact when he started Everton's first game of last season but he was eased out of the first team again by a manager cautious not to rush him into full-time senior action too soon.
Injuries would later curtail his chances further in the 2011-12 campaign but Barkley was back to full fitness by the spring and was instrumental in England U19s getting to the European Championship final in Estonia in early July.
Another player who could follow Barkley to the next division down on loan is Apostolos Vellios. Rumour has it that the promising Greek striker could join Sheffield Wednesday, though that could be dependent on Kevin Mirallas completing his proposed move from Olympiakos this weekend.
Finally, M'Baye Niang's three-day trial is over but both parties were sufficiently impressed that talks will apparently be held early next week about the possibility of the young Frenchman joining Everton.
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915 Posted 18/08/2012 at 04:54:03
916 Posted 18/08/2012 at 04:48:04
917 Posted 18/08/2012 at 05:29:59
918 Posted 18/08/2012 at 05:56:11
No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal.
921 Posted 18/08/2012 at 06:15:28
The way I see it, Moyes must be having long term plans for the lad at Everton if he is prepared to send him on a year long loan to the Championship. If he wanted to cash in on him next year, a la Rodwell, he would have put him up on the shop window.
922 Posted 18/08/2012 at 06:37:07
We hoped to see him this year, but IF we get in Mirallas then Barkley's time will never be as a starter without injuries. He needs to be playing.
923 Posted 18/08/2012 at 06:50:14
What's the problem?
925 Posted 18/08/2012 at 06:58:08
930 Posted 18/08/2012 at 07:08:12
You also have to remember Moyes is a safety first, balloon-eyed presbyterian with absolutely no imagination.
934 Posted 18/08/2012 at 07:44:13
935 Posted 18/08/2012 at 07:45:25
I was actually starting to believe Moyes was turning the corner, going for exciting forwards instead of defenders 1st, 2nd and 3rd, I even think he made the right decision with Rodwell, because he has done not under the Moyesiah and then this!
Well, it looks like I can take Ross Barkley out of my fooling Fantasy Football League team, now who can I replace him with in the Nightmare Dreary League Moyes.
Why can't we farm Moyes out to the Championship until he matures and grows a set of balls, prove me wrong you dour, negative git.
938 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:08:57
To be fair, wasn't Barkley injured quite a bit last season?
940 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:18:12
942 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:28:21
This lad is full of talent and is strong, something Osman isn't. As long as he is fit he will do more good here this season than languishing in the Champioship.
943 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:38:11
944 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:12:31
The main problem here is Moyes and the ways that he deals with young players. He kept going on that he wasn't going to play Barkley because Everton couldn't afford for him to make mistakes and learn in the first team. At the same time senior pro's were making mistakes and we had to suffer the poor form and performances of Saha and Cahill. After he hauled him off against Blackburn if he had no intention of playing the lad he should have sent on loan then. A team like Blackpool would have been ideal. Then we also had the statements off Moyes that he was going to bring him back into the first team and start playing him towards the end of the season. It never happened. Moyes's handling of Barkley, Duffy and Vellios last season in my opinion was appalling.
947 Posted 18/08/2012 at 08:50:49
950 Posted 18/08/2012 at 09:14:02
It's not that Ross is 'not going to make it'.
It's not that Moyes is being 'negative', though you folk should know a fair amount about that characteristic.
The fact is, Barkley has tremendous talent. However last season and also this pre-season hes mixed wonderful skill with naοvetι.
He needs to play regular, competitive football to become the player we all hope for. Look at how Arsene Wenger loans out his younger players.
951 Posted 18/08/2012 at 09:17:33
Or is it bad that Moyes would rather play developed and reliable players in league games, instead of players who are at the very start of their careers (and may never have a career at the top level)?
It never ceases to amaze me why in the name of god Everton continue to pay a muppet like Moyes good money every week when any one of the masses of geniuses on Toffeeweb could do a much better job.
Look, apart from the fact that Ross hasn't been sent out on loan (Moyes has only said he might do it, perhaps he's even challenging the player to step up his efforts in training and really impress), the simple point is: none of us see what Moyes sees every day in training. We don't get to see how players train, the intensity they put in, whether they're overweight, unfit, not mentally "at it" etc. Moyes, and his staff, do see all this. And, as such, they are best placed to decide how best to develop a player, who should start the next game etc.
I don't believe Moyes is wrong to send young players out on loan. If he is, then Imperial Lord Ferg, Arsene Wenger, the Chelsea manager du jour and just about every other bloody manager in the Premier League is wrong. But it's alright: Toffeeweb residents know the right way to develop youth.
Sigh, bloody sigh, indeed.
952 Posted 18/08/2012 at 09:20:56
953 Posted 18/08/2012 at 09:27:20
Look at Ossie?...feck
Nah, it really would be the best thing for him, god solid football against aging pros who will make him have to up his game. He is not going to get the required time here so I hope it comes off.
Arsenal, yeah right!!
959 Posted 18/08/2012 at 09:24:49
Yeah, Moyes and Wenger, two peas in a pod.
(tut! - rolls eyes so far back, can see inside of back of own neck).
Yes he needs to play regular, competitive football...for Everton in the PREMIER LEAGUE.
THAT'S how he'll 'become the player we all hope for'.
Dr Gloom however would rather play it 'safe' though.
For safe, see Barkley getting the shite hacked out of him by envious lunatics in lower leagues or thinking he's not wanted/needed and leaving him open to having his head turned by someone who has a mate who is an agent who can treble his money etc blah.
I certainly am, BUT...I certainly wasn't born this way.
Barkley should have been ready to play for Everton this season and the fact that (it appears) he won't be, is, imo, down to nothing other than a complete lack of imagination on the part of 'The Moyesiah'.
963 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:01:09
964 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:08:58
965 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:06:27
Do you have some secret information the rest of us don't know regarding when players become "ready"? Are you at the training ground everyday monitoring his development and plotting it on some sort of "readiness" graph? Please share it with us if you do. Have you stumbled on a scientific formula which discerns the exact point a teenager becomes ready for top flight football? Or have you, like countless others, fallen for the hype surrounding the lad who is the latest "new Rooney"?
Sighs and rolls his eyes at the predictability of your post on this subject.
968 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:23:28
This is how big clubs behave, if everyone wants us to return to being one of the top clubs then behaving like them should be applauded. If this move happens, it should be seen as a really good indicator of the strength of our squad.
In the past we had to put all our hopes on young prodigies like Rooney, Vaughan, Rodwell, breaking into the team. Now we have the players were we can say to a Barkley type 'you're not ready for our midfield, go away and improve yourself' and make your mistakes somewhere else'. This is not some sort of symptom of negative Moyes.
You could argue we only really have one 'defensive' midfielder in Gibson (as long as Neville doesn't play), all the others are attack-minded. It's not as though he's giving some 17-year-old defensive mid a game each week and leaving Barkley out.
17-year-olds aren't getting a game anywhere in the Premier League because they're 17. The only one who did regularly was Fabregas, even Wilshere had to wait his time.
970 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:40:08
972 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:48:05
973 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:45:46
Talk about a predictable response.
Your football-by-numbers response is, I imagine, not unlike Moyes.
Do this, then this, then this, followed by this and that and this will happen.
The thing is life doesn't work that way (the best laid plans etc).
I make my decision based on two things.
What (admittedly not much) I have seen of the lad and the notion that sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and take a chance.
You disagree, that is your choice.
975 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:41:27
All players develop differently. Already, this Barkley stuff is going to get very old, very fast this season. Every decision is greeted with hysteria. Moyes has aired an idea in getting the kid away to learn his trade further. A loan is for for 3 months (oh God 3 months the sky will fall in!!!).
Go away for 3 months, exposure to a first team dressing room, consistent football at a lower level, keep developing physically, mentally, develop away from the most hyped league in the goldfish bowl of Merseyside.
How many games were people actually expecting to Barkley to play this season?
People are judging all young players by Rooney and he was the exception not the rule. Rooney was a freak. Bad tournaments or not, and in those he's been compromised by injury for me mainly, he is one of the best players to come out of this country, ever. He is 27 and has about 80 England caps. And you want to judge against that standard?
A loan is for 3 months, he is developing into a man, in a footballing and personal sense. A loan would help, it can only benefit. There are countless examples of this. Just because you were hoping to have your matchday experience brightened and have latched onto a kid to do this, Ross Shields, has nothing to do with Ross Barkleys career, which will still hopefully be going in 15 years.
Barkley hysteria, its old already. Get the lad on loan and help him develop pressure free and away from this bullshit of being the saviour of the club, or some fellas Saturday afternoon, everytime he steps on the turf at Goodison.
979 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:59:34
I've come to the conclusion that nothing is gained by lending out players as I cannot think of one who came back and then made the first team.
Barkley is no younger than many other players who are already playing at other club sides. The squad is threadbare and no consideration seems to be getting made about suspension and /or injury cover.
I am dismayed!!!
980 Posted 18/08/2012 at 11:00:29
981 Posted 18/08/2012 at 11:05:58
982 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:51:45
I do not want to see Neville in midfield ever again, he must be the worst midfielder in the Prem, but I do think he is the best right back and captain in the club. Square pegs for square holes.
983 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:45:38
Compare this to how Moyes has treated Barkley and its chalk and cheese. Moyes fucked around last season with the lad instead of either playing him or loaning him out he did neither! He should have gone on loan last season, preferably with another Premier League side and then been playing for us this season.
He's a good replacement for Cahill playing in that midfield role just off the striker. This lad is a real talent and needs to be playing to develop. It's just that it should have been done last season and that is down to Moyes.
985 Posted 18/08/2012 at 11:16:20
989 Posted 18/08/2012 at 11:17:48
It seems to me that David Moyes is more tolerant of errors from experienced pros than he is of those from talented young players. Should it not be the other way round?
990 Posted 18/08/2012 at 11:25:08
Wilshere was a shoo-in for the senior England squad before his injury. Barkley has only just borken into the under 21s. Arsenal could afford to loan Wilshere to Bolton because, let's face it, they're never going to catch Arsenal. It would be very difficult for us to loan him to any Premier League club with the utmost certainty that we'd never be competing for league position at any point in the season.
Also as Maceachran found out, the clubs at the bottom now are not so bad that they'll just let our 18-year-old unpolished kid play every game, or even lots of them the Chelsea youngster barely got any playing time at Swansea.
If Barkley was ready and was this ultra talented attacking talent that we all hope he might turn out to be then why would Moyes not want to win games and not want to play him?
What is more likely, that Moyes has an aversion to attacking players (despite recently buying a shedload of them) and doesn't want to play Barkley because he's popular with the fans and also he might win Moyes a load of games which Moyes doesn't want... OR, the lad is 18, looks rusty every time he comes onto the pitch, matches every flash of genius with a mistake, and is not ready for consistent first team football.
I wonder which it is.
995 Posted 18/08/2012 at 12:17:49
997 Posted 18/08/2012 at 12:17:59
998 Posted 18/08/2012 at 10:55:34
With all due respect, there is a reason why football managers earn more in a week than many of us do in a year.
And I love the irony when people call the manager 'negative'. Kettle, Pot, Black.
999 Posted 18/08/2012 at 12:27:21
Again If 2 to 3 attacking players are coming in, then Vellios would be well advised to go out on loan probably for the season as well.
000 Posted 18/08/2012 at 12:39:37
Football managers opinions like fans differ wildly. Another manager than Moyes could take a completely different view to Barkley. Take for example Andy Hinchcliffe, Mike Walker didn't rate him and didn't play him. A lot of fans did rate him and thought he should be playing. Joe Royle came in, had a different view to Walker and played him. Its the same with Barkley, just because Moyes takes a particular tack doesn't mean he is right and some fans are wrong.
By the way I have seen Barkley play for the reserves numerous times and also seen him play for England whenever the game was televised.
005 Posted 18/08/2012 at 13:01:22
So he'll be a sub, getting ten mins here and five there. Surely it's a sound idea to get him regular competitive games instead, I recall Ossie going to Derby and coming back a much better player.
Yes we'd all like to see him follow Rooney and Rodders up from the academy but he has time on his side. Good move for me by Moyesy and good for Ross too imho.
007 Posted 18/08/2012 at 13:26:00
010 Posted 18/08/2012 at 13:37:52
015 Posted 18/08/2012 at 13:42:45
How can anyone not be cheesed off at what Moyes has said ? We have been hearing how good this youngster is for two years. We have sat back and watched quietly whilst he's "nurtured" to the point of mothering gone mad. He's been "protected", eased along, supported, encouraged, blah bloody blah. He made one horrible cock up in a prem game and apparently set himself back about four years. I get it ref a short loan spell I really do. It could just give him a boost, an edge, during the next three months and then he could return as some here have said, just before Christmas when frankly our absurdly tiny squad might well need his support. In fact id insist on an early return clause.
But.... sending him away for another season is just so safety first its not true. I read all thats said about the top four or five clubs sending their youngsters out on loan and yep, it can work quite well for them without compromising the week to week performance of the team. But at Everton we have to take a few risks, some managed gambles if you like and surely bringing Ross on via the new u21 set up AND giving him some decent bench time is worth the risk of a couple of mistakes and pushing him a little hard ? If we do start better this year he might just get a few more last twenty minutes when we are playing well and winning, and that could do wonders for his confidence and allow the talent to blossom ?
i do feel negative about what Moyes has said because it all feels ultra cautious. Ross has real talent, at least thats what we are told, so why not ease him in at our club, give the fans more sight of that talent and trust them to support him strongly, and yes that includes when he gives the ball away in the middle like a dork and gives us palpitations.....but watch us get behind him and bring him along as he strikes the ball sweetly and powers on to a good Felli pass and whacks in the net from twenty five yards.....it could easily happen and id rather we take the risk at EFC than see RB at a Championship club getting lumps kicked out of him by average clod hoppers.
017 Posted 18/08/2012 at 14:04:12
I'm advised that he was 19 so if Ross can do the business in the Championship then Roy will call him up. Or has football changed that much that we keep talented players under wraps until they are 22 or 23... or is this just Everton?
018 Posted 18/08/2012 at 13:55:23
On the basis that the first team has reasonable replacements in place and the U21s is strong enough to be competitive, a 3 month loan to a decent championship team doesn't seem like such a bad thing to me.
One question; is the Championship any more brutal than EPL or reserves / U21s would be?
024 Posted 18/08/2012 at 14:45:57
025 Posted 18/08/2012 at 14:50:21
026 Posted 18/08/2012 at 14:43:14
031 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:17:13
033 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:20:49
You state "No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal".
I'm curious as to what you are basing this on. Can you shed some light, as I assume your stating this as fact is not based purely on one particular TW member starting a rumour on your site's message boards.
034 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:24:23
You may well be right but that's not the best example considering how well Hibbert played that night and the fact we went on to beat the champions elect 1-0
040 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:26:36
You might be reading too much into Moyes calling him a "boy".
When discussing 29 year old Robin van Persie yesterday, Alex Ferguson said "Arsene knew the boy wanted to leave"
I doubt very much it's an indicator that he wants to get shot of him and probably just an expression. Much like scousers using the word "lad" even when talking to or about people their senior.
047 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:48:50
050 Posted 18/08/2012 at 15:58:26
055 Posted 18/08/2012 at 16:06:40
065 Posted 18/08/2012 at 16:49:32
Also I'd guess that Michael meant Mirallas (who seems like he's ours thankfully, but chickens and eggs) rather than Barkley wanting off to Arsenal given the date and time of his post.
068 Posted 18/08/2012 at 16:59:36
That is why Moyes prefaced his context by saying if he strengthens his squad enough he would send him out, not right now though. Not surprised that ToffeeWeb wouldn't put the full context of the quote though, any chance to take a dig.
"I can't do it right now until the squad is strong enough. I want him to go out and play. It seems right." So if he brings in a few more players, he wants to send him out to get playing time instead of bit part action here. God forbid.
070 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:01:53
If Michael meant Mirallas then it seems out of context with his previous paragraph which was about sending young players out on loan.
071 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:03:38
073 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:07:59
I'd appreciate it if you could cut that crap in the bud right now. We quote the source, we provide a link to the source, you can directly compare what we post with what the source article says. Not many sites do that but it doesn't stop you from spouting shite about ToffeeWeb, does it?
Nothing of the 'context' you claim was present in that original source. It may be elsewhere but I think that Click Liverpool story was the first one to appear, and that's the one we used to generate the news feature.
075 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:17:45
Last week, Tom Dodds posted:
I have heard from a few sources, that the current crop of 'kids', specifically Baxter, Barkley, McAleny and others have become 'infected' the same way, ΰ la Rooney, and the story goes Barkley told Moyes he'd love to play for a bigger club like Arsenal one day (soon) !!.... Which apparently turned into... "Fuck off till April", which in turn was press re released to "We'll give him a start in April"!I'd hate to believe it was true but sadly nothing else I've seen explains Moyes's reluctance to play the lad last season, and his keenness to push him back down into the Reserves and even into the Under-18s despite his indisputable potential and crying need for senior games. Far too reminiscent of his treatment of Rooney, I'm afraid to say.
076 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:21:07
077 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:23:32
Brendan Rogers: "There will be many more days like today."
078 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:26:30
080 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:27:41
081 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:22:03
I too work in the online media business, and before publishing quotes it's always best to see who the "original source" is. Meaning, who was he giving the interview to, and is the full context there. If Click Liverpool don't say, something along the lines of "speaking to us" and don't say "speaking to [insert media here]", then try a quick google search for the story. He was speaking to the Daily Mail, as Sky Sports quoted as well. Wouldn't hurt for you to update the story with the appropriate source, providing full context behind what the manager's comments really were.
He said if he strengthens his squad the way he wants, then he wants to send him out to get games. But right now, that won't happen. He goes on to explain further why he is considering this action: "We put him in last year and he's doing well. But it would be easier for him to go to the Championship and make his mistakes rather than in the Premier League".
082 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:23:07
Barkley isn't ready, simple as. You really think he's ready to play centre midfield in the Premier League, you think his defensive abilities is up to scratch? Not a chance. He could play the Cahill role, but I'd much rather Naismith, who has been our best player in pre season so far.
So yeah, with Michael's awful argument about loaning out our kids to clubs i.e Baxter, Forshaw etc, none of them were ever good enough for our first team anyway, League 1 is their level. Barkley has huuuuge potential, and playing at championship level when he's 18 is pretty damn good.
Deluded fans think he should play because he's homegrown, has a lot of potential etc, when fact is AT THE MOMENT he is not ready. I have no doubt he will be, and will be our best player in a few years, but he's not ready, especiallt playing centre mid, which you know what Moyes' like, has gotta have a lot of defensive abilities, and Barkley doesnt have that yet.
084 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:38:33
I'll take that as acknowledgment that the source we cited did not include the quote you mentioned, and that it was not deliberately left out as your post egregiously claimed. I know an apology would be too much to expect.
Sounds like you could do a better job at this than we do... how about volunteering your time to prep stories for us??? Just think: that way, you'll be able to put your slant on things!
085 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:40:43
086 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:43:53
BTW, I was just pointing out the indisputable fact that most youngsters Moyes has sent out on loan have ended up leaving the club. Prove me wrong on that by all means...
They were good enough to be at the club in the first place (or does that not count for anything?) so I remain unconvinced about the ability of Everton staff (since Harvey left) to nurture and develop young talent into the real thing. The fact is that going out on loan is usually a precursor to leaving the club, so I just don't buy this idea that it's such a great way of developing our talent.
Isolated cases like Osman and Beckham are just that: in the overwhelming number of cases, it just doesn't work.
088 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:58:29
The talk about the top clubs loaning out youngsters does not compare with our small squad size as they all have lots more players than we do.
I do not buy into the excuse given that it gives players more time on the pitch. Barkley plays quite regularly and our senior players who come back from injury generally sit on the bench instead of playing reserve games.
It's purely and simply a wage-saving excersise, and it happens every season. It is a ploy for DM to be able to use money from the Rodwell sale to buy a couple of players who may not make it in the premier.
Barkley should be kept available and other youngsters who are not ready for a first team step up should be loaned out instead.
When mention of loan players like Cleverley from Utd and Wilshere from Arsenal are used as comparable examples it makes me laugh. :0) Both clubs have large squads and can afford to allow fringe players to go out on loan.... We CANNOT.
092 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:58:06
On the other hand, those with a frankly vicious anti-Moyes agenda are ALWAYS pre-disposed to belligerence.
Here's what will happen..
Barkley may go out on loan - Moyes will cop it from the MOB.
When Barkley makes mistakes in a Blue shirt - they'll blame DM.
IF Barkley DOES succeed at Everton - Moyes won't receive ANY credit for it.
093 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:09:35
'Any chance to have a dig..' - 'Anti-Moyes Hysteria' - 'The Moyes out brigade' - 'Usual TW negativity' etc blah.
These sentiments, imo, only make those who use them look daft and desperate (desperate in so far as a gross exaggeration is resorted to)
The reality is that those who think Moyes lacks imagination, express a perfectly legitimate opinion, with (FACT!) no more or less 'hysteria' than those who think he's doing a sterling job.
In fact less imo, as the use of 'hysteria' to describe an opinion different to your own, is itself, rather hysterical (and has a certain over defensive 'Tom Cruiseness' about it).
Grow the fuck up, we're rarely going to change each other's mind's/opinions but debate should be attempted without this nonsense.
Oh and while I'm here... 'simple as' is not a shit argument it's NOT an argument of any sort.
094 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:46:36
So if he was going to select someone to play holding role, and you do need someone playing that role, out of Barkley or Neville seeing as Barkley is a young ball playing attacking mid......yeah I hope he would play Neville!
Theres an injury crisis??? Well, if I was going to ask someone to play out of position in an injury crisis then I may ask the massively experienced, versatile, senior pro who can play in different positions and not the young lad making his way in the game.....depending on the position.
But if the injuries were in a wide or attacking sense I would expect Barkley to play.
095 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:05:53
Why published an unsourced story in any column other than 'rumours'?
(When I say unsourced, I know you got it from Click Liverpool but their source is invisible... basically stolen.)
096 Posted 18/08/2012 at 17:55:44
097 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:32:44
098 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:30:31
Yes, mate, from Everton.
099 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:29:35
That's exactly what I was referring to. One TW contributor posts a rumour (and that's the kindest way I can describe it) and you then present it as fact by saying:
"No wonder the lad wants to go to Arsenal."
I don't see the similarities with Rooney at all. Rooney never suffered the injuries and consequent stall in development that Barkley did, nor did he (to my recollection) drop back from the first team to reserves and under 18's.
My personal view is that a month or two playing regularly at a decent championship team could help his development. Those that have done so in the past and made it (e.g. Defoe, Beckham, Osman) seem to have benefitted from it.
I cannot recall too many young players that Moyes has shipped out on loan, been released by Everton and then gone on to make it elsewhere in the Premier League. Ruddy is one that comes to mind but that's mitigated by the fact that goalkeeper is a specialised position where first team opportunities are extremely limited.
100 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:41:14
And all based on a random quote that somebody posted in a forum about Barkley fancying Arsenal.
Having a go at somebody for talking crap when you're prepared to build a criticism of Moyes on one man's speculation is a bit rich.
101 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:50:48
102 Posted 18/08/2012 at 18:38:49
"I make my decision based on two things. What (admittedly not much) I have seen of the lad and the notion that sometimes you have to take a leap of faith and take a chance."
The key phrase being "admittedly not much" thus confirming my original thesis that it is the 'Rooney trap' you have indeed fallen into. You admit that you haven't seen him play much at all yet apparently you say "he should have been ready to play for Everton this year" you use the word 'should' as though there is indedd some sort of magic formula but I am the one accused of "football by numbers" and "predictable responses"
One of us have fallen for a championship manager style theory based on nothing more than seeing the lad play for a few minutes and having some sort of gut instinct which some might think is a predictable media-hyped football by numbers response.
107 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:02:49
"The failure to manage VDM cost us the 2009 final"
Ian, I'm actually laughing as I'm typing!!
Sort your head out!!!
110 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:11:14
112 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:18:33
We wouldn't have got to the final if it wasn't for Van der Meyde virtually winning the Liverpool game.
What attacking threat did we have after going behind in the final? Fuck all. What goal threat did we have on the bench? Fuck all.
Would Van der Meyde have kept Ashley Cole occupied instead of tearing Hibbert a new arse? Yes.
What attacking flair did we have against Liverpool in the semi? Fuck all. Would Drenthe have got us moving forward? Yes he would.
114 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:27:43
Similar situation with Shandy.
These arent miss management issues, these are examples of highly paid individuals not controlling themselves.
116 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:36:06
118 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:36:13
Btw, anyone hear the Liverpool fan lose it at Robbie Savage on 606? absolutely fantastic. The truth hurts sometimes.
With respect to Barkley, he needs to go on loan. Those who think he doesn't, must have been watching a different player to me. Many better talents have benefited from loan deals, and hopefully one will help him mature into the player we all want him to be.
119 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:40:56
Other managers would have just fined him. That's why the rabbit will never win a trophy.
128 Posted 18/08/2012 at 19:21:45
Do you perchance own a chain of pie shops and ale houses that suffered hardship after your best customers left?
If Barkley was good enough, he'd stay but our midfield, including subs, is strong, too strong to guarantee him a lot of time on the pitch at the moment. This is not a transfer, it's a temporary airing.
Ruddy is the only example I can think of where we let a player go who then went on to better things and in that case I think it was probably Ruddy himself who wanted to go as he was never going to get back a starting birth once Howard was installed. Players who don't make it aren't good enough.
135 Posted 18/08/2012 at 20:09:29
I also think a lot of people underestimate the level of the championship. It is a hell of a lot better than it used to be, we have 8 or 9 teams in it who rightfuly believe they should be promoted. It is very competitive. It would be good prep for Barkley.
And Michael 086,
Your point with the loans is bothering me. The fact that you think not a lot of loans doesnt work isn't because they are loaned out, its because theyre not good enough! Beckham clearly had potential, Osman is also a very decent Prem player. I would also add Coleman to that, although hes gone downhill a bit now, that loan spell at Blackpool did him the world of good and now hes a good member of the squad. Baxter, Forshaw, Wallace etc are not good enough, simple as, and for you to say that was because of their loans is deluded, I'm sorry!
Is Barkley at the same level as Baxter et al? Is he the same level than Beckham at his age? Closer than the first lot, definitely yes! Because he looks good at such a young age anyway, means him having first team football at a good championship club is going to do wonders for his confidence and ability.
136 Posted 18/08/2012 at 20:20:34
137 Posted 18/08/2012 at 20:22:48
The cold hard truth is though that we are down to the bare bones and have the smallest squad in the Premier Lleague. To load out our best youngsters would be madness we need them!
144 Posted 18/08/2012 at 20:40:13
145 Posted 18/08/2012 at 21:11:29
151 Posted 18/08/2012 at 21:20:24
But we have had so many promising young players over the years who have taken huge amounts of abuse. Colin Harvey and Kevin Ratcliffe spring to mind as players who have survived it, but I suspect there are many who have suffered badly from it and failed. We should be more conscious of it than we are, as individual supporters.
163 Posted 18/08/2012 at 21:23:06
And that's my point: we are told repeatedly that Everton's Academy is 'one of the best' in which case, I would hope that we were bringing through only the cream of the crop in the first place; players that at least stand a better chance than most of making the grade.
Some people a far too quick to defer to the wisdom of our Academy staff and the decisions they are making decisions that are clearly not bearing fruit, based on a recent harvest of... er... not very much to write home about in the way of product.
Okay, Rodwell, yes.... But he should 1000 times better than he is that is presumably what Man City saw.... Because his recent Everton performances do not in any way justify a pricetag of £12M to £17M.
But this thread is about loaning out Ross Barkley arguably the most exciting prospect in the Everton Academy. Maybe loaning him out to the Championship will have the desirred effect getting him loadsa gametime, ironing out the errors, building confidence. But all this will occur outside of Everton's control.
Does that amount to a tacit acceptance that out coaching doesn't hack it? Or do the potential benefits listed by many outweigh the equally likely downsides: bad habits, poor coaching, risk of injury, confidence broken though being downgraded from the Premier League to the Championship?
No-one can really know... But that doesn't stop the wild extrapolation from quite a few on here about how beneficial a Championship loan could be in Barkley's development. I'm just saying I don't agree.
But I want a perfect world in which our coaches are the absolute best and know exactly what they are doing with the precious charges in their care... well, that's the hype but the truth, as we saw last season, is that he just won't get a game in the Everton senior squad, no matter how good he may really be.
I think that's a terrible shame. I want to see Barkley playing for Everton and being groomed to become a great player for us.... Just like Rodwell & Rooney. Oh bugger!
167 Posted 18/08/2012 at 21:59:59
168 Posted 18/08/2012 at 22:22:58
To me, it comes down to the length of the loan. A couple of months would do him good; a season is too much not sure we can afford not to have him involved in some part of this season either. A whole season I think is more for players nowhere near ready, whilst I think Ross is somewhere in-between from what I have seen.
169 Posted 18/08/2012 at 22:27:41
171 Posted 18/08/2012 at 22:58:37
Of course, for every successful loan story Willshere, Beckham and let's not forget that Coleman ( of whom I am no great fan) came back stronger from his Blackpool loan to have what I fear was his one impact season for us there are the ones who wind up at the "lesser" clubs because that is where they fit
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