Baines gets England nod ahead of Cole

Baines was outstanding in a pretty average England display against a Conference League side.

Baines never put a ball wrong and ran all evening, creating space for all the front players who tended to be greedy and play silly short passes through the middle. I don't remember him putting in a bad pass.

Jags had a very easy game but did everything tidily and well. Coleman had a torrid night as did all the Irish team against a top class German team who hit them for six. The accuracy of the German passing and shooting was phenomenal.

Well done, lad. Making me and fellow TWers very proud.

Hopefully Jags can pick up a few coaching or training tips to help him along.

This great experience that he's gaining must start making him more eligible to become our next captain???

Great for Bainsey. He has more craft than Cole or anyone else at left back. Pity Kyle Walker has very little on the other side.

Goes without saying that Shelvey would get a game as soon as he was picked. Take off the red glasses Hodgson!

Thought that LB must have been close to pushing gangly Wellbeck (you know it's a weak England team when giddy Wellbeck is – fuck me, pause for sharp intake of breath – is leading the line... reach for 70s footie card albums when I used to care about what England were up to; you bastard fucking Poles... and I was on the edge of puberty as well) for MotM.

Summed it up for me when in the last 5 mins LB legged it after a ball that was going out and somehow managed to keep it in and kept chasing it, and EEEnnngeerrrrrrlllllaaaaanndddd were 5-0 up. Sound man.

But, in my opinion, for what that's worth, LB is not skipper material. He is without any shadow of a doubt one of our top three players; someone we must never let go. But Baines on the pitch is lack Timmy trying to run the rule over his box/back 4. In a nutshell, he ain't up to it.

LB is down to earth, it seems to me, and a nice all-round fella. If I had daughters, and you ought to be glad that I don't, I would want them to tie the knot with Bainsey or, failing that, his ilk. Look, LB is modest, self-deprecating, self-questioning, and, it can seem at times, riddled with doubt. That all, by the way, is the mark of the man and who he is and no bad thing at all.

My hunch: he wouldn't ever want to be skipper and is as happy as a pig in shit running up and down the left side and doing his thing with his mates and listening whenever or if ever Pip barks something in his direction.

Leave him be to do his stuff so well, week-in and week-out, until the sad sad day when he hangs his boots up, secure in the knowledge that he is an Everton great... listening to 34-year-old Wayne Rooney, his club skipper, bossing the pitch.

That's a great shout, Chris. He's a model pro. I'd love to see him as our captain in the next 12 months

Baines played very well tonight, had more freedom this time round which is what we like to see.
Wouldn't like to see him as captain, Jagielka suits that role perfectly in all honestly.

I hope Oviedo, Bidwell and Garbutt learn from him (and the coaches, do we have attacking wing back coaches??!!), and then we sell him for big monies and we get the next Baines at l/b,

It'll be detrimental if he wants to stay with us beyond next summer because full back isn't a key role and we're broke. Baines is only important to us because our Dear Leader doesn't do wingers. I can't wait for Moyes' contract to run down....he bought one winger in 10 glorious years (AVDM) ...so depressing to have a manager who hates smiling...

I flicked around links and was glad to catch Jelavic walking, majestically, off having been subbed at the hour. How the match went I have no idea.

Andrew Presly makes a valid point. If an offer you can't refuse comes in for Baines, not in January in my opinion, but in July, then Oviedo et al have to be prepared. Who will make this offer of how much? In England I have no idea. MU? MCFC? Splashing the cash? Attractive to big money Euro clubs? I doubt.

But to say the coaching staff at EFC are incapable of producing attacking wing backs.

Andrew - isn't Leighton Baines as good as it gets?

By the way, I heard some Sky TV arsehole near the start of the game refer to Baines as the England man who had played so well for Wigan and then recently at Everton. Every time he put a perfect pass in he was never name checked, because Rooney or another Sky player was on the script.

Do some of you pay good money for this rubbish?

As long as Phil can get off the field, I'm happy to give someone new the armband whether it be Jags or Baines.

I disagree Andrew, I think fullbacks are ever more important in the game and I think we have one of the best in the world and I think he's our best player overall and has been for a few seasons.

Here is a crazy suggestion. Maybe this should be on a different thread but would it kill us to try Osman at RB? I think maybe he could do a job, maybe in the mold of Phillip Lahm?? If I were Moyes I'd give him a look in practice.

Osman as FB... OK, cast your minds eye back to Jonah Lomu trampling over the England guy for a try. All his opponents would be Lomu and Osman would be the England guy, for that reason – I'm out.

Chris
I would think that he's been looked at many times in training at FB. My own feeling is that he is too small and he can't tackle well enough to be a fullback.

Derek, I think the England 'Guy' was Rory Underwood although I think Lomu may also have crunched his brother Tony Underfoot a couple of times?

Spot on, Trevor.

If Jelly would have been playing for England last night, he'd have scored 5 or 6. Some of the balls Baines put in last night were screaming to be hit first time.

This has to be the most bizarre thread I've ever read on TW. 'We don't need our world-class full back, full backs aren't important' and 'Lets bang a 31 year old midfielder with no experience of defending in a RB role'.

I'm not even going to entertain the Osman thing because its quite obvious the lad is a technical, tidy midfielder - rather than a right-back.

Andrew Presly - What on earth are you on about?! Full-backs aren't important?! They're every bit as important as any other player. I can't believe you think the only reason Baines is key to us is due to the ineptitude of our manager. We have the best left side in the Premier League, you raving clown, and that is down to partnership. Two great players working in tandem to create space and opportunities.

I'm at a loss. Full-backs aren't important?! Have you watched a football match in the last 15 years?

Osman for right back has to be in the top 3 posts of all time.

I didn't think anyone really played that well for England. Baines did okay, but some of his delivery, especially early on, was uncharacteristically bad. He took one dreadful corner, and didn't really link with Oxlade-Chamberlain much, although that's more to do with the Ox's style of play being so different to Pienaar's.

I expect Cole to play against Poland, and I think that's the obvious way to have approached these two games.

As for wanting to get rid of Baines and play Osman at right back, this thread has definitely entered the surreal. Baines is one of the most important players in the Premier League. He creates more chances than anyone else according to one stat I saw last week. More chances than anyone else in the Premier League. Think of all the players in the Premier League, those big, world renowned names on their £100-200k a week, and Baines creates more chances than them. Come to think of it, I think I followed the link from this website, here it is again:

http://www.eplindex.com/19874/dark-horses-everton-lead-stats-comparison.html

If you really think selling the most creative player in the Premier League because he's "not important" is a good idea, I'm happy to call you an idiot.

As for top three posts of all time, Osman for right back isn't even the top one on this thread!

We'd rather have a manager who smiles than one who knows how to pick and prepare a football team?! And have you not noticed Kevin Mirallas playing on the wing recently? He may be happy playing down the middle, he may even prefer it, but he's definitely playing like a winger.

I'm going to have to stop, my head's going to explode.

I really don't think Baines will leave at all to be honest, 1 year down the line, how much would he actually be worth at the age of 28?

Players like Jagielka, Baines etc are not expendable, whereas I feel that maybe Fellaini is even though I do not want to see him go at all. But he would fund for near 25 million and there are a huge amount of CAM's put there at the moment. Full backs like Baines are rare gems, so keeping Baines is so important. Him and Pienaar are rocks in our team, and if we lose some of our attacking threat – eg, Fellaini at the moment or Jelavic a few weeks ago, then they will always be able to put a ball in regardless of who is in the box because the delivery is so good.

I do ramble but I've thought that Baines has been a better player than Cashley for at least 2 years now, all this hype for Cole is not unwarranted but I would of thought based on stats alone that Baines is a superior player.

Keith #317 a minor but obvious thing - Everton released Baines and he was "developed" elsewhere and bought back, he has improved further at Everton but ask any Wigan supporter and they still hold his skills in high regard but would tell you straight you are taking the piss claiming Everton are the only development he has had.

Letting players go happens everywhere, sometimes players make it, more often than not they don't.

England wise, really don't give a shit about them, never will, even less so when you get wiggy which his ridiculous thatched lid giving interviews and Woy giving Uncle Fester a call up and having that 80s kickback Kid n' Play leading the line.

The Ireland Germany game was an example of a superior side at a canter.

I thought he was poor 1st half, much better 2nd half. Thought 'Outstanding' was OTT though.

Also meant to say, at club level in the prem, Baines is performing better than Cole, the problem is though, in the games Baines has played for England he has done okay, but hasn't done enough in those games to oust Cole as the number 1 left back.

Ok, ok, I contributed to the insanity but I was just interested in seeing people's opinions re Osman. Sure, Osman at RB is crazy but, for some reason, he won't get dropped. What the fuck do we do with him??

And Phil, I'm not sure Moyes has watched a match either in the past 15 years as we've been an absolute shithouse down the right for the past 10 years, probably longer.

Osman doesn't get dropped? Really? I'm not going to check back as I know it's not true. Same with Neville.

As for Baines he worked damned hard largely to be ignore by Oxlade-Chamberlain and the quality of some of his crosses and corners was excellent, not all I would agree but nobody's perfect outside of Toffeeweb posters surely?

As for Left Back not being important and Baines as a player rather than a position, I think others have covered that ground very well.

Now smile Moysey it's the key to success, has no one told you?

Gavin #349... Spot on! Both Baines and Jags were at Everton and were released. They were both developed at other clubs who then sold them back to us for decent amounts of money.

I reckon overall we are pretty average at bringing through top youngsters. Rooney is the only one who is top notch. Rodders and Vaughan are not up to top standard and neither is big Vic. Perhaps Vic can improve???

Rodwell was disappointing to my mind at Everton.

I've said it before: Osman is a barometer of how Everton are doing, on and off the pitch.

In a perfect world he would be on the bench as back up to Gibson and Mirallas in midfield, with us signing a midfield tank to play with Gibbo.

Osman is a good player, who incorrectly gets stick when shunted out on the right as he has never had the pace for the job – neither did Scholes, etc. He should've played a lot more games in the middle than he has, particularly in Cahill's later years. Moyes has never sorted out the right until now, and perhaps it's cost Ossie a shot at England. Put it this way: if Osman would have gone to a Blackburn or a Wigan, he would have been the big fish.

I'm pretty sure Baines was let go by Liverpool, not Everton. Wikipedia certainly thinks so.

What do we do with Osman? Hopefully, Moyes will continue to play him as part of the central midfield trio, probably with Fellaini & Gibson, & we'll continue to get far better results with him in the team than we do when he's not.

Mike that wiki article is piss poor, the reference to Liverpool if you read the Guardian article says he was turned down by Liverpool and Everton youth teams and after a short affection for the RS he turned away from the dark side and became a bluenose.

His Pravda profile says he was released by Everton - http://www.evertonfc.com/player-profile/leighton-baines and the toffeeweb page puts to the sword the notion too also quoting the Guardian article: http://www.toffeeweb.com/players/profiles/Baines.php

The second article goes as far as saying he never was on the Everton books — he had two trials and never made it.

Sure Osman is serviceable and contributes what he can, but in my mind I'd love to see a better player in that important position. I'm sure he's a nice guy and a model professional but I think we could/should get more out of that position.

A bench player, yes! And a good one at that. A starting midfielder in a top 4 team? I'm afraid not IMO.

Doesn't it say something that you never hear speculation about another team coming in for him?? Maybe it's happened but never made the news. But I can't recall a whisper of him leaving from what I can remember.

I'd happily have better players in every position, if we could afford them. However, Osman is one of our key players.

Some stats came out last season showing that not only was Osman one of the players whose presence in the team coincided with better results, but that his absence from the team had a more pronounced negative effect than any other player in the squad.

As for other clubs being interested, the only recollection I have is of Derby County being very keen to retain him after his loan spell all those years ago — apparently they planned to build the team around his talents as the midfield creative hub. But that was a long time ago; I'd say he's a much better player now.