Moyes pleased with fightback

, 3 February, 119comments  |  Jump to most recent
David Moyes was critical of Everton's defending in their 3-3 draw with Aston Villa but praised a vibrant attacking display.

"I thought we played well throughout, except for obviously conceding a few poor goals," he told Sky Sports.

"We always knew Aston Villa were going to be a threat, they've got some very good attacking players, but we didn't defend well and that meant it was always going to be a long, hard day for us."

Moyes added: "I thought we played really well in the first half but couldn't finish off, but we kept at it and the players did great to get back into the game.

"I was actually screaming at them after 3-3 because we had a couple of chances after that and we needed to try and win."

Quotes or other material sourced from Football 365



Reader Comments (119)

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Anto Byrne
1 Posted 03/02/2013 at 06:38:26
Fuck off, Moyes — you make me sick! Same old tired lame rhetoric from a man lacking in imagination and invention. To not drag off Heitinga after 10 minutes shows just how inept this man has become.
Paul Andrews
2 Posted 03/02/2013 at 06:49:05
I can't fault the attacking effort.
The problem was with his team selection. I thought he may have put his hands up and accepted he made a mistake with team selection.
Daniel Heaton
3 Posted 03/02/2013 at 08:55:49
Do you think he just meant Heitenga didnt defend very well? Benteke made him look worse than average.
Steve Guy
4 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:21:25
Aston Villa...in the bottom three.....can't defenD to save their lives at set pieces......

Everton....at home.....three points would have put us in 4th.....

A top v bottom clash. The points were there for the taking but DM needs to look closer to home for why we didn't win. Namely his team set up, with one of the best centre halves in the PL playing RB to accommodate Heitinga. Add that to late substitutions and guess what ? We struggled. We've been lucky last few weeks with results with JH playing and if I (and others) could see it why can't DM. He might be pleased but I'm not.

Susong Hermawan
5 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:34:55
Yess im pleased too...doh!
Mike Keating
6 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:38:56
Was Moyes not at the West Brom game?
Jagielka is not a right back and Heitinger had a nightmare and yet he buys a full back in the window and then persists with a combination which does not work.
Heitinger has played right back for Holland and if he should be on the pitch at all this Phil Neville's best position.
As for the game itself -same old story. We dominate the game but can't kill them off. Villa had 3 chances and put them all away - I don't recall Howard doing anything apart from picking the ball out of the net.
Looking at our next few games, I think Spurs will be out of sight by March.Hopefully Rafa will keep us in the hunt for 4th spot!
Paul Ellam
7 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:45:01
We always struggle against Villa and I wasn't expecting an easy game to start with. Many fans were talking about thrashing them 5 or 6 nil! (deluded)
When was the last premier league team we thrashed by such a score? It is not a regular occurrance.
Yes, it's very frustrating that we dropped 2 points but the fact we are complaining that the team is doing poor (joint 4th) shows how good the team actually is compared to seasons gone by and why our expectations are so high.
I for one, am happy with what we are doing and although I want more from the team I will take this over dour relegation battles anyday!
Phil Walling
8 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:49:50
An astute manager would have replaced Heitinga before half-time (and bollox to his feelings!).Oviedo was the obvious replacement but Neville would have done so that Jags could look after their big fella`.We played well apart from the three goals!`What an asinine statement is that,
Yesterday we saw and heard all the resons why Moyes will never win anything.Here or elsewhere.Meanwhile we still need 16 points to finish seventh.
Paul David
9 Posted 03/02/2013 at 09:58:16
Paul

Why are you comparing this side to the ones that regularly battled relegation? .That was over 10 years a go and we have been an established top 8 side since then. It makes as much sense as me saying this side is shit and why are we only 5th when we we're winning titles and constantly at Wembley in the 80's.

You can only compare this team with current expectations. I personally expected us to finish the season in 6/7th position so we're only doing slightly better atm.

Trevor Lynes
11 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:12:27
Newcastle had all their signings in long before the end of the transfer window.
Sissoko looks a fantastic find and a snip at £1.8 million.
He is big, strong and fast.

This fully illustrated the shortcomings and total ineptitude of our transfer dealing (lack of).
We were too late to get an alternative in once Fer was considered injured !
The lad is playing regularly and every footballer shows up injuries on a scan.

Another reason for the lad not being signed was drugs showing up in his system...what a joke !
Maybe we should keep out of Holland as marijuana is legal there.

Im sick of article writers on here giving reasons why our management do what they do.
FFS let them make their own reasons.

1/ Why was our activity too late in the transfer window ?

2/ Why is our squad the smallest in the league.

3/ How is it that we can loan OUT easily and not loan IN. ?

4/ We don't take FER because he has an injury showing up on his scan, but we take interest in Negredo who has had far more injuries.

5/ We sign future stars eg; Kennedy and Stones but none for the present.

6/ Why are our youngsters so poor

We have used LESS players this season than any other premiership side and that shows up the total inadequacy of our bench

Paul Gladwell
12 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:18:11
He cannot handle stick whatsoever , the fans gripe about Heitinga is simple, he played centre half against Newcastle and cost us a goal and nearly a few more by being slow and getting bullied, he gets dropped for the next two league games and lo and behold we keep two clean sheets in the league for Christ knows how long?
Next he is recalled against West Brom with our best centre half being thrown right back and he costs us another goal again getting bullied by a strong forward,surely he would be dropped? But no 70 seconds into the next game it happens again, surely he would take him off at half time? No Moyes has shown in the past when the fans voice concerns he goes all stubborn, then that shambolic third goal goes in and he has no choice, but its too late it cost us three points.
Phil Sammon
13 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:23:08
It's harsh to blame one person for the teams failings...but Heitinga has been directly at fault for the last 4 goals we have conceded. If he starts the next game I'll be disgusted.

I can't get over how bad he was for that first goal yesterday.

Phil Sammon
14 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:36:49
Taken from The Mirror:

After more than a decade of defying the odds for Everton, you would have thought that David Moyes had earned himself a bit more respect.

Sixty-four minutes in and with the Merseysiders trailing 3-1 to a Villa side who had belied their own troubles at the opposite end of the Premier League, Moyes made a double substitution that was to be pivotal.

The tiring Kevin Mirallas and the tormented John Heitinga off, Nikica Jelavic and Bryan Oviedo on.

Cue a crescendo of insults from all corners of Goodison Park.

By the final whistle, the jeers had been replaced by cheers, the old stadium rocking like days of old after two Marouane Fellaini goals had earned Everton a point that might yet prove priceless.

Moyes said: “The fans don’t seem to be happy with my ­decisions. They were the same at Bolton last week. I don’t know what their problem was, but it’s fine.

“As long as they direct their anger at me and not the ­players then that’s okay. We’ll just keep going and we’ll keep trying to get the victories.”

---------------------

Eh? What are they on about? The only jeers I heard were for Heitinga when his number came up.

Paul David
15 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:38:40
Phil

I got the impression that the crowd was booing the subs rather than Heitinga.

Barry Pearce
16 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:29:07
I totally agree with Steve (#373) — Moyes did the same thing with Baines a few seasons back and as I remember there was talk of him going to the Barcodes on loan. If you have to play players out of position through injuries, fair enough... but to accommodate Heitinga who's slow, can't jump, and totally out of form — that result yesterday is down to Moyes.
Steve Sweeney
17 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:26:50
In answer to: Why was our activity too late in the transfer market? — Because we have a wanker as a chairman who is too interested in his own self-gratification and playing up to his lovey pals. Kenwright is our problem; all those happy with 6th/7th are among the reasons why he is still fucking Everton Football Club.

Next season, when Moyes, Baines, Fellaini and Jelavic have gone, and we are in the bottom half of the Premier League, don't come crying... You have all sat on your hands while he fiddled and the club burnt. It was the same with the Kirkby fiasco — you all know who you are.

It's obvious BK knows Moyes isn't signing a new contract as all the "We talk every day" shite is conspicuous by its absence.... Ah well, next season he will have an extra £60m in TV money to put towards those Other Operating Expenses... Why does not he buy back Finch Farm with it for a start?

Oh, I forgot, the interest from his friends at Winga takes up most of that. He is a fucking disgrace of a chairman.
Rant over.

Phil Sammon
18 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:45:45
Well everyone round me was telling Heitinga what a sub-par game he had.

Can't really complain at the subs. Mirallas coming off was disappointing but he's not fully fit

Derek Thomas
19 Posted 03/02/2013 at 10:39:50
Newspapers = tomorrows chip wrapping, don't worry about it, it's their job to write rubbish, whether you choose to believe it is another thing. Trouble is the majority of the great unwashed who weren't there might...It's in the paper it must be true innit
Paul Gladwell
20 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:03:23
That's the problem with this Moyes era. He's done well but we are all told to 'sit down shut up you know nothing, be thankful what you have' God help him when he moves on as he won't be allowed all that patronising bollocks.
Phil Walling
21 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:14:23
Ah,bless! You`d expect these ignorant bastards to be grateful and not let their feelings be known,wouldn`t you?The man desrves a job where people would show due respect!
Paul Andrews
22 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:17:53
Anyone think we should get Stones on the bench and have a look at him for 20 minutes? If you're good enough, you're old enough.
Barry Rathbone
23 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:23:02
Moyes is an arrogant buffoon.

Ifs and buts of Moyes decisions has cost us countless times and it shouldn’t happen the manager shouldn’t be costing points or contributing to cup defeats.

Fair enough if the other team beats us at our best you can’t argue but once Moyes starts thinking it’s lethal.

Remove his options and he’s safe but decision making is like him tackling an unexploded bomb – “what to cut? ..blue wire or red wire? …. actually they both look purple to me” – KERBOOM!!

Any of his kindred spirits Mcarthy, Mcleish, Allardyce given the luxury of 10yrs could supply the nil expectation lingering like a black cloud over this once great club.

Fans wallowing in excuses for him and his thinly veiled sulks when criticized are beginning to grind now it isn’t just long term critics like me who are having a go. Then again look at the contempt he’s shown regarding his contract and he wonders why the peasants are revolting.

Kev Johnson
24 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:35:22
That's twice in the last three games his substitutions have been booed. He won't admit it publicly, but he's got to be reflecting on that.

I have little sympathy for him as regards the transfer window. In the last 12 months, he's brought in Jelavic, Gibson, Pienaar, Naismith, Francisco Junior, Oviedo, Mirallas, Hitzlsperger, Stone - that's nine players, FFS! We do NOT need a huge squad when we're not in Europe. We have enough players, and he needs to utilise the players he does have, especially the ones whose potential is untapped - Oviedo, Barkely, Duffy, Velios. I'd add Naismith to that, because his natural position is behind the striker and he's never actually played there!

Just get on with it and manage (yes, "manage") your footballing resources, Moyes. Justify your salary... and leave the moaning to us - that's our job!

John Ford
25 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:44:48
Barry, some fair comments regarding Moyes personality but please don't compare his managerial record or approach with those also rans. The reason they won't and havnt had ten years at a club is because they aren't fit to lace Moyes brogues. Moyes has a very good premier record on limited resources (fact).

We can argue all day (and do) about whether he should be doing better, but those clowns aren't in the same league. It would be a thoroughly depressing day if any of them got anywhere near our club. You think your pissed off now?

Patrick Murphy
26 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:27:08
David Moyes says he doesn't know what the fans problem is, David that is the problem! Someone posted on the match forum 20 minutes before the game, saying that playing Heitinga at CH was a mistake waiting to happen (I paraphrase) and many more thought the same, unfortunately our manager didn't.. David Moyes is lucky he never went over the road to manage the other lot, he wouldn't have got 10 games with them never mind ten bloody years.

We realise we are not Chelsea or Man U or among the elite, but is it too much to ask that the same mistakes are not made over and over again. Square peg theory doesn't work David, maybe you should sit in the directors box from time to time, you might have the same vantage point of many of the Goodison faithful.

I'm sick and tired of how DM is the be all and end all for Everton FC, without him we wll be fighting relegation, why? We spend 60million pounds on wages and 4million pounds of that goes to the manager, so why should we expect to implode because a manager may leave us?

Wherever DM goes he will not get the same patience and understanding from his new clubs fans, he certainly won't get 10 years to find a formula to obtain success. He's also got to remember that he has played a part in lowering Everton FC's standards, until this last 12 months he has produced some of the most unimaginative football that Goodison fans have witnessed and that includes games managed by his mentor Walter Smith.

He's failed miserably to produce a positive result at OT, Anfield , Emirates and Stamford Bridge because he is so fearful that Everton will get mauled, he plays safety first and for the most part still loses the match. In games at Goodison, where it is not unreasonable to expect the team to win, we invariably manage to cock it up.

Whenever his team is under pressure to win, they more often than not buckle under the expectations, he is a small minded manager, who should be in charge of a really small club and I for one do not consider Everton FC to be a really small club, we're not a big club anymore, but we're not Bury or Tranmere either.

I don't watch and support Everton in the hope that we keep our PL existence, I support the Blues because I hope that the players achieve great things and that the club gets stronger with each passing season.

This season in some ways encapsulates the David Moyes era, great promise, glimpses of what is possible, only to be totally screwed up by strange management decisions and self-inflicted gaffs that totally undermine whatever it was we might have achieved.



Jim Knightley
27 Posted 03/02/2013 at 11:57:13
Barry...why do you have to come out with these idiotic tirades? seriously? we've had no fucking money for 10 years, and we are still, despite yesterday, in a fight for fourth... We could point out relative wage and transfer spending, with relative finishes etc etc...but clearly you want Moyes to bring back the glory days of the 80's, in a modern British game where success is impossible without significant investment.

Also, there was booing yesterday...and there was against Bolton...but the reality is that Moyes brought Heitinga on and he scored against Bolton, and following the subs yesterday, we went from 1-3 to 3-3. It wasn't the win we wanted or needed, but it does illustrate, ultimately, that Moyes was right to make the subs that he did.

The booing really irritates me, because I am worried that frustration towards the board will be misdirected toward the manager by an ignorant few, and then we will lose the primary reason why we are still competitive near the top end of the Premier League.

Brian Waring
28 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:01:09
Paul (407) thats a good point mate. I'm sick of people telling me to be careful what you wish for, Moyes is great, you can't criticise him because he's got no money etc. Well, the man is paid an absolute fortune that makes him one of the highest paid managers, not just in the premier league, but in europe, so when he fucks up, we should be able to criticise him to fuck, without people saying knee jerk, we're in 5th place etc. and before anyone says anything, I have given Moyes plenty of praise when he has deserved it.
Jim Knightley
29 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:04:04
So Patrick...Moyes is a small minded manager...an essentially crap manager, but he has turned a bottom 5 club into a top 7 Prem League club with a net spend over his tenure which is comparable to a Championship club? Get something into your heads...and everyone's heads...we are NOT the teams of the 80's anymore. Go checkout the league finishing positions in the season's before Moyes arrived....Look at the money we can spend, even look at the wages which we can spend, which whilst relatively better, are still less than half of what Arsenal pay...

And Moyes wouldn't have lasted 10 games at Liverpool? What kind of idiotic statement is that! Liverpool have not had a manager in the last 10 years who has overachieved at that club...they've not had a manager who has even achieved what he should, bar one Champions League win, given the money they spend. We have had...and that's why he has lasted for ten years, and why we have not spend millions of pounds on compensation payments to release inept managers.

Brian Waring
30 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:11:12
Jim, don't think anyone thinks we're the team of the 80's (if only) but, and I know ir's a different era, that team was built with hardly any cash.
Kev Johnson
32 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:19:34
Jim - your assertion that DM got the substitutions right yesterday is not rational.

Plainly Heitinga (who the manager should not have picked in the first place, given his recent poor form and the defensive reorganisation it involved) needed to be taken off at half time, but DM waited until we'd conceded another goal before being brave enough to swap things round. If he'd changed things at half time then we could have still won it.

John Ford
33 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:13:00
Patrick, hardly anyone ever beats the top teams in their own back yards. And of those who do we pretty much always do better than them over a season. It's selective in the extreme to pick on this set of results and then ignore the others. I remember Sunderland out played Chelsea the season e last and had a flyer at the start of the season. They dropped like a stone. There are other examples where 'ordinary' teams have had a right good go and won at bigger clubs but they never ever sustain it.

Moyes core approach reaps rewards over a season and season after season in the league. certainly in comparison to most clubs. The only clubs who do better than us are the bastards who buy their way our of a slump in form, and who have two or three options in every position.What we need is for him to be more flexible and use different options when things aren't going well. Lime everyone I get frustrated by this.

The idea that we are ever going to be excellent under a polarised and top heavy financial structure in English football is fanciful. We all want it but it's just unrealistic. I'm not saying Moyes couldn't do better, but I can never understand posters here who don't see what he has done for us when every comparable club in our league is consistently beneath us.

How does anyone get a club like Everton to the next level? No one has done it anywhere else.

Phil Sammon
34 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:23:15
Some of the comments on here are absolutely pathetic.

Moyes has his limitations, like any person, but he has worked wonders for the club.

Barry, get yourself to a doctor immediately.

Brian Waring
35 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:32:47
The difference is though John, most teams will go to the bigger clubs knowing they probalby won't get anything from the game, so they have a go. Moyes goes with a negative attitude from the off,
Patrick Murphy
36 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:32:58
I hope Bill Kenwright isn't reading this thread, he will be unable to contain his excitement,

He'll think 'look what's happened to the fan-base, they expect so much less than I thought they did. 'Never mind the contract Davey Boy' , I can manage, Sell Felli, Sell Baines, put Phil Neville in charge, anywhere between 8th and 17th will satisfy these fans and we can save oh so much money by cutting the wage bill, I never believed it was possible, I am such a clever Chairman!'

Nick Entwistle
37 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:35:50
Barry thinks that any half decent manager, half decent being better than Moyes, would have our 15 or so quality players in... I dunno? 3rd? Not sure.

Maybe its generational but those who remember titles and European wins don't recognise a glass ceiling between 5th and 4th and that 15 or so quality player always used to win championships so why not now?

Was listening to TalkShite this morning and there's Saggers and Quinny (because first names is too posh you know) spouting off about Spurs not being able to add a striker in January because Defoe has 1 in 9, Adebeyor is off in Africa and another two not on form either... then they dismiss Everton as 'not seemingly wanting to cross the line'. Cheers, we've got one good striker not on form and a Victor. Oh to be Tottenham Hotspur.

John Ford
38 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:49:26
Nick, points well made, however depressing.
Ian Allaker
39 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:49:01
Brian, how can you say Moyes doesnt have a go against the better teams? I think our recent record against Man City Chelsea Man U and Arseanl is as good if not better than any of the other comparable teams to our selves.
Phil Walling
40 Posted 03/02/2013 at 12:55:04
So the message is:-`Don`t criticise the manager or he`ll fuck off somewhere else!` Personally,I think he`ll fuck off anyway and is just using this so-called booing issue to provide a reason for doing so!
Ian Allaker
41 Posted 03/02/2013 at 13:05:41
Moyes made a big mistake playing Johnny and then made the mistake of not changing things sooner. Heitinger made some mistakes in the game which cost us three goals. We all make mistakes, that doesnt mean the manager and the player should be sacked or never play again. It comes down to who makes the least mistakes. The fact is Moyes must be making less mistakes than the other managers below us so far. The season still has some way to go but history shows that Moyes gets it right more often than not.
John Crawley
42 Posted 03/02/2013 at 13:24:35
I don't think its as simple as saying Moyes made a mistake about picking Heitinga and then made a mistake not taking him off earlier. These aren't isolated incidents they form a pattern that has been going on for years and as such they highlight a weakness in his management approach. That's not to say he isn't a good manager, he is but he sure isn't a great one. He's more Gordon Lee than Howard Kendall (Mark1).
Nick Entwistle
43 Posted 03/02/2013 at 13:38:14
What's the pattern John?
And what part of the pattern was being put in place when Heitinga was player of the season?
Ian Allaker
44 Posted 03/02/2013 at 13:49:55
Thats what I said John, but Moyes makes less mistakes than most and gets it right more often than not. Its frustrating but he is still the best man for the job.

Moyes cant win, people have been complaining that Neville should be dropped because he’s crap, myself being one of them. Neville gets dropped and Moyes gets the blame for not playing Neville. Maybe Moyes was in the right and we were in the wrong. If Moyes was given the money to buy some decent players Moyes wouldn’t have all this shit spouted at him.

Steavey Buckley
45 Posted 03/02/2013 at 14:02:24
Heitinga has struggled all season against strikers who are stronger, taller and are mobile. So what does Moyes do? He plays him against the same type of players yesterday and had a nightmare of a match. And when Jags was restored to his normal position, usual calmness was restored. But too late to save 2 points.

Duffy is now 21. But what is his future? Is he good enough for 1st team action or not? If not, Moyes needed a centre-half, not another full back in the transfer window.

Duffy should go out on loan to gain more experience than playing in the surreal academy. The brainchild of the FA, who don't understand real football. Real football that should tell seasoned coaches whether a player by the age of 18 has any future in the most demanding football league in the world, the EPL.

John Crawley
46 Posted 03/02/2013 at 14:29:44
Nick the patterns as I see it are: moving players unnecessarily out of position which breaks up partnerships; playing senior professionals who are badly out of form instead of giving younger players a chance; worrying more about what other teams are going to do to you; being reactive in your substitutions rather than proactive.
Harold Matthews
47 Posted 03/02/2013 at 13:49:10
I'm a bit confused with this booing business when the substitutions were made. Did the crowd want Mirallas to continue?

Actually, the one who stayed on far too long was Gibson. Right from the kick-off he was clearly unfit and maybe DM wanted to get as many minutes into him as possible.

Whatever we think or say about the manager, he will not change the methods which have cemented his reputation throughout the football world. He has his own unique and strange way of doing things and he'll stick with it no matter what. (Watching Spurs. This Holtby, the Everton fan, is something else.)

With regard to the slightly negative tactics against the top sides, something we all hate... In a Radio interview, the Reading manager touched upon this particular issue. He said he had to learn quickly the importance of staying in games in order to compete in the Premier League. Even at two-down, you're still in with a chance. 3 or 4 down and you're out of it. So, who knows. Maybe DM had to learn the same lesson.

Spurs 1-0. How is it Lewis Holtby is not playing for Everton.?

Kevin Hudson
48 Posted 03/02/2013 at 15:55:52
Whilst Moyes is being damned to high heaven for yesterday's line-up to a disproportionate extreme, I believe it's only fair to point-up the commensurate lack of praise for his team selections that win games.
Barry Rathbone
49 Posted 03/02/2013 at 16:13:09
Jim 427….. you’re just saying anything to protect Moyes and his woeful lack of success your lack of perspective is staggering.

Things like we’ve had no money for 10 yrs is a lie and “in a fight for 4th “ is a tremendous feat of self delusion, we’re not seriously fighting for CL because of managerial decisions like yesterday.

Don’t worry he has plenty more opportunities to add to yesterdays loss of 2 points including fun and games in the FA Cup, plenty of scope for more of your melodramatic whining.

Oh and stop with the finances vs success excuse - Bradford and Swansea have added another hole below the waterline of that tired old bucket adding to those made by Pompey, Brum and Boro. (cue cup win = relegation theory)

As anger grows about the Moyes contract the “ignorant few” as you sneeringly reflect may turn into the pissed off majority such is Moyes inability to read the runes.

Dean Adams
50 Posted 03/02/2013 at 17:53:38
Barry Rathbone - have you ever smiled? When the shit is flying and life is throwing all kinds of shit at you, then you would have some reason for being so negative and miserable, but, you are miserable because we are 5th in the league and according to you that is woefull!!! God forbid, I thought you were on the road to recovery a while back, but no, you are full throttle back to the Barry Rathbone I find it hard to agree with. Peace bro!!!
Brian Waring
51 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:00:28
Kevin, Moyes gets plenty of praise when he's doing well. The problem with some lads on here is that they feel the need to defend every and any bit of criticism that is thrown at Moyes.
Jamie Barlow
52 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:11:44
How about some praise for his fantastic substitutions when two goals down.

Brilliant plan B.

Shame about his plan A though.

Daniel Lawrence
53 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:12:58
Maybe it's the fact he's not committing himself is causing the booing. If it were a player running down his contract, the same may well occur.
Chris Corn
54 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:01:10
I will reserve judgement until the end of the season, but I have always felt whenever we have something tangible in our sights the team withdraw within themselves and ultimately throw it away. That goes for Europe, big cup games and whenever we get anywhere near the so called holy grail of the top 4.

Over the last couple of years , we seem to have strung our good form together from the bowels of the league and ended up in 8th, 7th etc. Then everyone says we've only lost x amount of games and how great we are. Ultimately the prize has been nothing because there is no pressure to win a load of games when you are finishing 8th

I feel we are stuttering again and still have to go to places where we never pick up wins. Hopefully we can reverse the half season trend, but we need a run of back to back wins desperately to even stay in the top 6. Draws are just no good , especially against relegation fodder.

Anto Byrne
55 Posted 03/02/2013 at 17:44:50
He should have left last summer. No fucker wanted him, the football served up was pretty dire and a sulking demeanour is hardly going to endear one-self to new employers and supporters. It's Moyes's way or no way, the man seems totally inflexible and to say that the Bolton result was down to tactical genius and the supporters have no fucking clue is total arrogance.

He brings back Barkley from The Owls, eventually gives him a short cameo, the kid gives the ball away a couple of times and then he gets shipped off to Leeds as punishment. He ain't gonna learn how to play in the EPL at Leeds, FFS!!!

Duffy — what has he done wrong? Playing favourites instead of managing, being bold instead of defensive. We have had 10 years of this shit, it's no surprise people are waking up to this and asking the question.

Steve Pugh
56 Posted 03/02/2013 at 17:56:15
Let's put the fight for fourth in a bit of perspective. Over the last week the gap between ourselves, Spurs and Arsenal have remained the same. The gap between us and Chelsea has closed and the gap between us and the RS has widened.

We struggled against Villa, Chelsea have recently lost to Newcastle, and thrown away two goal leads against Reading and So ton.
Spurs couldn't beat Norwich, Arsenal are more erratic than us and Villa beat Liverpool at Anfield.

There is no reason why we can't get fourth, and as everything bad is DM's fault, if it happens I hope that those of you that rate him the same as Allardyce et all will be man enough to apologize on TW.

Steve Pugh
57 Posted 03/02/2013 at 17:56:15
Let's put the fight for fourth in a bit of perspective. Over the last week the gap between ourselves, Spurs and Arsenal have remained the same. The gap between us and Chelsea has closed and the gap between us and the RS has widened.

We struggled against Villa, Chelsea have recently lost to Newcastle, and thrown away two goal leads against Reading and So ton.
Spurs couldn't beat Norwich, Arsenal are more erratic than us and Villa beat Liverpool at Anfield.

There is no reason why we can't get fourth, and as everything bad is DM's fault, if it happens I hope that those of you that rate him the same as Allardyce et all will be man enough to apologize on TW.

Trevor Lynes
58 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:01:28
Just watched Sturridge have a blinder and the game of today is all about PACE.
Players of average ability without pace are finished.

Sissoko flashed past Ashley Cole who is not slow and gave him two yards start.
These guys are athletes and if they cannot be matched then its no good bitching about Heitinga and a couple of others in the league including lescott who don't have enough pace to compete.

If Duffy is as slow as Heitinga (which people say) then he will be no better.
Distin has more pace than players five years and more younger than him and he is the perfect foil for Jagielka for now.
Im not so sure about Stones as he hasn't been tested, he is tall for a fullback and that is a concern regarding pace.

Its no use complaining about Moyes with the shabby bench he has to choose from.
I would have played Neville at fullback and kept Jags and Distin together but maybe he is keeping Neville for the UTD game as he cannot play every game.
No one expected Villa to start so quickly as they appeared to lack confidence recently.
In a way Im glad that JH played and now he has been exposed as lacking in the vital ingredients perhaps he will be relegated to the reserves.
At least we got a draw.

My fear is the coming fixtures as we have to play all the teams around us in the next couple of months and we cannot strengthen the squad due to the boards negligence.
I would like the fans to lay off Moyes and direct their vitriol to where it should be.
At our inept board.

Ian Allaker
59 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:20:52
Brian, I think every Moyes supporter on here has criticised Moyes and agree with a lot of the other citicism written. However when there are calls for the sack or for a change, its clearly too harsh and extreme.
Roger Sunde
60 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:38:32
I think Moyes started Heitinga to give him the chance to shake off the mistake against WBA... obviously it backfired — but we're gonna need him in our small squad.
Barry Rathbone
61 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:12:21
Dean you couldn't be more wrong.

Look, the issue is we are at the top part of the financial league of the non-monied crew and that's where we finish.

For others this is marvellous, Stoke, WBA etc would be organising the open bus tour but this is Everton for gods sake.

I have some sympathy for youngsters who know only the Moyes years precedented by Walter but some of their claims are just bollocks, especially shite football and no cups is entirely money driven.

The finances are what they are, Moyes knew the score and if he didn't he must have worked it out by now. He is paid to meet expectation it's that simple, and I will argue till the cows come home that the majority of Evertonians see our expectations as more than shit football as best of the rest without ever winning a cup.

In fairness to Moyes he's changed the style but there are signs he's drifting back to his bad old ways, Jelavic out of position, Johnny on at Bolton and Duffy and Barkley ignored. Throw in his decisions at Leeds and yet another arrogant stance over his contract and there reaches a point when people say "seen this film before".

Plus he's part of the Kenwright strangle hold and a bit of a Jonah bad luck seems to follow him - injuries, key match suspensions and the bloody transfer sagas are the stuff of Grimms fairy tales.

It's time.

David Pearl
62 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:30:35
The closest I have ever been to booing a player in blue (or Moyes substitution... pathetic).... is when Hutchison had a go at another one of our players (i cant remember who). I think its shameful and those supporters should have a good look at themselves. Babies.

When Heitinga had a 'mare against Wigan he was hauled off at half time and I think that damaged his confidence; he doesn't seem to have recovered. You can't blame Moyes for one players mistakes. JH had held his hands up... he plays in BLUE and we should get behind him.

Si Cooper
63 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:43:28
"he is tall for a fullback and that is a concern regarding pace"

Trevor, unless you are talking about off-the-mark pace (where short, low centre of gravity people have the advantage) I wouldn't worry too much about a lad who is currently 6' 2" and may grow a bit taller. Gareth Bale is 6'1" and can burn most contempory players for pace.

Average heights have rocketed with the latest generation and with most of them it comes with a proportional increase in other body dimensions so less of them are the gangly under-powered beanpole type you may be worrying about. Twisty, tricky wingers seem less common as well.

Dean Adams
64 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:53:40
Barry - this is Everton. Bad luck is our middle name, has been for years. We were the nearly men for large parts of the 80's as I remember, but thankfully we were thr best for a while, only to once again have it taken away from us by those redshites. Our history is littered with them destroying our best opportunities, I think I might blame them for two world wars whilst I am at it, cos we were on top before both.

You have a viewpoint that is possibly as far removed from mine as possible yet I know we both see some merits in the other end of our spectrums. For me, I have to be positive because hope is all we really have in our locker. Moyes is guilty in my eyes of elevating our hopes and expectations and reminding silly old buggers like you and me of what we once had and believed we should hold. It has been far too long, but when we reached the final in 09, we had the hardest run of games that any team could possibly get and fell to the best Chelsea side ever (my opinion).

This is Everton and there is much to be proud of, we just need lady luck to call in on us again, but she does it so infrequently it is hard to keep faith.

Ian Allaker
66 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:05:19
David, was it Richard Gough?
Paul Ferry
67 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:12:46
Jamie Barlow sums yesterday nicely and neatly (#555).

But then we have Ian Allaker. Now, I like to believe that Evertonians are not just smarter about footie than any other Tom, Dick. Harry, and Cassandra, but smarter more generally. But then Mr Allaker comes along yet one more time to challenge the very basis of my cherished theory.

Ian Allaker (#469): 'Moyes makes less mistakes than most.'

Okay, 'most' what exactly Mr Allaker? But, more to the point, in order to truly substantiate this, you need to let us know the methodology and conceptual framework that allowed you to come to this conclusion. We will need to know the scientific practices and principles you rely on.

Have you, for instance (1) constructed a large enough sample to pass muster? (2) constructed a credible set of comparative statistics that are rooted in appropriate comparisons in the first place?

Are you able to provide exact figures to back up your otherwise unsupported generalization?

Or is this just yet one more example of your Allaker-for-Moyes blind how dare you knock the gaffer coz we're in 5th arid and predictable formulations/guesswork?

Kevin Hudson
68 Posted 03/02/2013 at 18:54:47
Brian,

I didn't defend Moyes's team selection; Nor do I have an issue with the consensus view re: Heitinga. However, far too often it is Moyes's fault when we lose or draw, and his regular detractors frequently overlook his part in a win, or actively posit a narrative that we won despite Moyes.

"Moyes is an arrogant buffoon..." - says some guy on the Internet...

John Ford
69 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:03:40
Barry, winning cups is definitely very money driven. A quick look down the winners list over the past ten years confirms this fact. Seriously, why do you think Chelsea and city poured hundreds of millions into players...to buy their way to success.

With respect to you as a fellow blue, I'm completely at a loss as to why you can't see this.

The fact that very occasionally a team outside of the money clubs wins something - and this is usually a league cup when the top teams often play a second string, doesn't detract from this. In simple terms - statistically we, like every other team outside a few money teams, are unlikely to win trophies.

We can agree its not 100% driven by money, buts the reality is such that the game at the top is getting very predictable. Your first paragraph is interesting. You acknowledge we are one of the non money teams. But you seem to be expecting us to still win trophies. Show me any team who regularly challenge for, and more importantly actually win trophies without the benefit of big spending power. You won't be able to, because there aren't any. Yet you expect us to jump out of the pack and break the mould. On what basis?

Steve Pugh
70 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:06:41
Barry, could you tell me what Moyes arrogant stance is regarding his contract? For all I know he was using it to get the board to stump up some cash for transfers as it is a tactic that has worked in the past.

Secondly I am 40 and in my lifetime we have won 5 trophies, 4 of those in the space of three years, until Moyes came along even I have more memories of relegation battles than trophies and success.

Instead of trying to live in the past people should accept the modern game and realise that Everton will not be regular contenders for trophies unless the rules are changed to stop the elite few clubs buying success, or we get a new owner. Hopefully we can get an FA Cup win, but even that will require a bit more luck than we seem to get.

John Ford
71 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:23:28
Trevor, the RS were worryingly good today. Pace, accurate passing and good movement.... and of course they'll be a certainty to lose at home to Reading!
Kevin Hudson
72 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:28:06
Barry Rathbone,

Prior to the obscene amount of petro-dollars that came their way, do you remember 'the force,' Man.City were when Shaun Goater & Nicky Summerbee wore light Blue..?

I do agree with you that there is no reason why we couldn't have picked-up at least one trophy, however.

Barry Rathbone
73 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:04:58
Dean, I've never been one for c'est la vie - if we want better we need change.
Barry Rathbone
74 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:38:12
John 581, not sure how you can ask such a question when you say this:

"We can agree its not 100% driven by money"

Even Kevin Hudson is on board with this.

It's always been my point, the obvious question is how long do you stick with a manager who fails to win a cup given the above.

Barry Rathbone
75 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:44:40
Steve 582 I honestly don't know how to answer that question about Moyes and his arrogance regarding his contract - it just seems so blindingly obvious.

Steve Pugh
76 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:50:57
Barry, so as far as you're concerned he wants more money, no other options?
Dean Adams
77 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:45:56
Barry - what makes you think that change will be better? Villa could go down, they wanted change, better they thought but well, it aint that simple. Too many clubs have found it harder than they thought. I wont say better the devil, but sometimes patience and perseverance are more key when you just cant compete financially.

You always miss the point though Barry. Did any of your class mates from school get a better job and a bigger house than you. Could you really pretend that you could match them by being, well whatever you expect Everton to be.

I just believe in reality, what I can see and balanced with what I know about what I see. Life is shit, nobody ever said it would be fair. Get used to it and stop dreaming.

Barry Rathbone
78 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:53:25
Steve it's not really about what he wants it's the fact he's dictating terms - "'ll look at it in the summer" - oh righto Mr Moyes give us a call when you're ready.

Tail wagging the dog in large measure.

Barry Rathbone
79 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:56:30
Dean the problem with "stop dreaming" is what is the point of supporting a football club?
Steve Sweeney
80 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:45:10
It's all about Money. And yet Evertonians moan and gripe about good/bad team selections and substitutions.

Vent your anger at Kenwright — he is the one who is to blame that no payers were brought in.

Moyes has had enough and is spitting out his dummy as usual. Why the fuck we didn't at least sign Butland to replace Howard is beyond me.

Kenwright has fooled you all again, that man though will get his reward in Hell.

John Ford
81 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:58:51
Barry, its about probabilities mate, and the facts about who wins trophies are there, which you seem unable to acknowledge.

I notice also that you didn't answer my question. Instead you gave an answer you'd expedt from a third year maths student who's been on his dads voddy the night before. I really don't believe you're that stupid.

Dean Adams
82 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:06:24
Barry - Ha ha!! You know the difference and your general theme of your posts display it. You don't dream on a level playing field, that is why you have such a diss-parity in your ideology. You need to dream of a realistic target and then take it to the next step, instead of getting all Etihad on us!!!
Chris Leyland
83 Posted 03/02/2013 at 19:47:38
So Barry we get your thesis that winning a cup in the modern game isn't all about having money to spend, despite the over-whelming evidence that it is. And your refututing of the fact that for those other non-money clubs that have actually managed it, it doesn't then mean relegation, despite the fact that in every case those clubs have won a cup have in fact been relegated shortly after their cup win. I'm looking forward to your hypothesis that the earth is flat shortly...
Brent Stephens
84 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:11:31
Barry, forgive me as you might have set this out elsewhere. But is where we are in the league Moyes' fault?
Ian Bennett
85 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:10:44
Here's the facts chaps:-

It is not 1966.
Everton are no longer the giants of English football.
You could have 35 titles in the cabinet, but unless you have an annual £50m transfer fund and £120m wage bill you will win fuck all squared. Even Man City are proving that by pulling in the spending.
You can't have success by signing a £25 grand goal scoring centre half, an ex bin man, and a battering ram Scottish crock any more.

The apologists understand all of the above, and see Moyes's faults, that he is still the best available manager of Everton football club (crazy, but the most important measure in an assessment of any manager).

The mob, just want change as perhaps the above is all wrong:-

Yep, Moyes is responsible for red cards like Fellaini, is responsible for botched transfers – perhaps he was here for Ravenelli, Mueller, etc. The mob know that as long as Moyes is around we will be the best of the rest, selling to stand still. Get rid of Moyes, is their high risk gamble that Kenwright goes, and perhaps John Moores comes back. Merseyside Millionaires... Littlewoods revisited. Get your football pools on, 8 score draws, the forecast is high.


Barry Rathbone
86 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:13:12
John... My point has always been twofold: the shite football and lack of cups relating to finance.

The shite football is a subject I've acknowledged Moyes has had a go at primarily because he's had no "extra" money thus proving my point much to the annoyance of certain posters.

Identifying the cup failure follows the same line. Not sure how you translate it any other way.

As an aside, I think the monied league works not just because managers can afford the best players but the likes of Moyes and his kin are more interested in protecting their huge salaries before taking them on.

To protect your job, meet your club's expectation by ANY means... at Sunderland, Stoke, Wigan etc it's all about Prem survival. Here, the issue is muddied; some pretend it's not survival when certainly at board and manager level it is. Those slavishly following Moyes don't like to admit it but end up supporting this shite and now there is a generation who will openly say "10 more years" and mean it!

I have no truck with it; in my opinion, one day someone will come along and put together a team from the cast offs and youngsters of whom there are thousands and threaten to win the league. Whether they succeed is another thing and yes it will only last a season because the monied clubs will cherry-pick but it will be the greatest thing to happen to football in this country since 1966. The destruction of the money argument in the league would be immense.

Barry Rathbone
87 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:46:48
Brent if you mean should we be at least 2 points closer to Spurs if Moyes hadn't fucked up... I wouldn't like to comment.
Brent Stephens
88 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:56:10
No, please don't comment, Barry. I didn't mean and didn't ask that! As you well know. Can't bring yourself to answer it?
Barry Rathbone
89 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:59:04
Brent I just did.
Brent Stephens
90 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:00:12
Oh no you didn't. I was asking about where we are not where you think we should be. Come on, Rathbone minor. It isn't that hard.
Tony Marsh
91 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:50:01
I dunno... sometimes I feel lost being an Evertonian. One minute I disagree with a certain poster then the next I am in total agreement. I like to blame Moyes for certain things but then I change and it's Kenwright's fault.

At certain times we look like world beaters and then we are terrible. Money is the problem but then it's not. It's Moyes and his shit tactics causing the lost points but then it's the poxy referee. I thought a few months ago we would definitely finish in the top 4 but now it's a long shot I just couldn't back.

What is it with this club that splits the fan base and opinion like no other? Am I cracking up under the pressure we all feel or am I just too emotionally involved?After all, it's only a game... but we treat it as life or death, black or white. It's not.

Being an Evertonian is so complex and has many layers; none of us fans can ever be right all of the time — not even me.

Ian Allaker
92 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:50:29
Barry, how many years will you wait for this team of cast off's and youngsters to threaten the league, that I doubt will ever happen before you accept the clear relationship between money and success ?
Steve Pugh
93 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:00:49
Barry, who is responsible for Everton being three points off third place?
Brent Stephens
94 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:11:01
Steve, he doesn't want to answer that, mate.
Trevor Lynes
95 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:03:09
This article started with some good comments but inevitably it has lapsed into arguments between basically the same people.

Would the editor please stop these people from using the site as a platform for themselves.

Voicing concerns about players, boardroom, managers etc is OK but some idiots are just arguing with each other in print.

Barry Rathbone
97 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:11:25
Ooh err! I’d better say 5th is Moyes doing before someone has a stroke no different to him being responsible to our lower half of the table positions at the start of previous seasons!

Shouldn’t league campaigns be judged at the end of the season?

The question is – What is success for Everton FC?

League Champions?
FA Cup winners?
League Cup winners?
CL?
EUROPA?
Survival?

Ian where you’ve got this idea I’ve ever said there is no relationship between money and success is mystifying, but just to clarify – it’s not the only thing – as proven once again by Bradford and Swansea.

Brent Stephens
98 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:23:42
Barry, after acknowledging that we are in 5th because of Moyes, you then say "Shouldn’t league campaigns be judged at the end of the season?" Quite. Let's wait till then?
Brian Harrison
99 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:59:29
Barry Rathbone

What utter rubbish you spout, if you don't think that money matters then you know nothing about the game. Money has and always will be the main reason why clubs win trophies, they can buy the best players and higher the best managers.

The only time Everton have won leagues is because we could under Catterick out-bid any club and the same applied to Kendalls first spell. Now if you don't think money has a bearing can you explain why Everton were so poor under Kendall's second and third spells because in your world as long as you have ambition the money doesn't matter.

I watched Carey's reign and right through to Moyes; given the constraints he works under, he is as good as any of them and if he had a comparable spending power as Catterick and Kendall first time he would be challenging for the title.

By the way, don't think for one minute that Catterick or Kendall didn't make mistakes in team selection or transfers. Anybody who could sell Alan Ball in his prime can't be that good can he?

John Ford
100 Posted 03/02/2013 at 20:58:45
"I have no truck with it, in my opinion one day someone will come along and put together a team from the cast offs and youngsters of whom there are thousands and threaten to win the league. Whether they succeed is another thing and yes it will only last a season because the monied clubs will cherry pick but it will be the greatest thing to happen to football in this country since 1966. The destruction of the money argument in the league would be immense."

Fair do's, helluva post Barry. The last paragraph (above) is spot on. It would be one of the great achievments in football for any team to win a title without competing funds.

Maybe you're setting your sights too high, maybe mine are to low, but I agree that this should be our aim. Oddly it's Moyes who has come closest to this but is still some way away.

I reckon the polarised nature of the premier league means playing consistent good football is difficult. Having four/five teams richer and supposedly 'better 'than everyone has two effects - they cherry pick from the rest of the league, obviously making everyone else's job more difficult, and managers may as you say rely on things other than free flowing attacking football. I don't blame them for that though, 'free flowing teams' usually disappear without trace, Blackpool being an example although Norwich are also starting to realise they have no plan B.

I honestly believe given a moderate spend that Moyes would get an effective balance of attack and defence. With good players we've shown that in the past, and at times this season. I looked at Holtby today and thought how fantastic he would be just behind Jelavic and between Pienaar, Fellaini, Mirallas and an in form Osman. Then I thought so would Dembele or Bale, another two we couldn't get near buying. Ho hum.

Barry Rathbone
101 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:31:29
Brian Harrison, read my previous post then have a lie down.
Barry Rathbone
102 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:33:09
John it's a fair shout the problem I have with Moyes is when he has options in my opinion thats when he has problems.

It will always be a divide between the likes of thee and me simply because I can't see Moyes ever having money here.

We can only call it as we see it John.

Brendan McLaughlin
103 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:36:15
"One day, someone will come along and put together a team from the cast-offs and the youngsters... and threaten to win the league"

Nice idea... very unlikely but I wouldn't say that it couldn't happen say once in the next 100 years. For the other 99 seasons however it will be only be the teams with the money that will ever threaten.

Andy Walker
104 Posted 03/02/2013 at 21:31:38
5th in the league, in the 5th round of FA Cup, lost 7 out of 51 in past year, just fought back from 3-1 down with 20 mins to go. A measured response or an agenda?

'Fuck off, Moyes'
'Moyes will never win anything'
'We have a wanker as a chairman'
'He is a fucking disgrace of a chairman.'
'Moyes is an arrogant buffoon'
'He is a small minded manager, who should be in charge of a really small club'

Jamie Barlow
105 Posted 03/02/2013 at 22:05:51
Tony, we're all too emotionally involved.
Brendan McLaughlin
106 Posted 03/02/2013 at 22:16:34
Yeah Andy #631
And that's from the Apologists....wait til the MOB start!
Steve Sweeney
107 Posted 03/02/2013 at 22:45:28
Andy (#631):

It's not about this game, it's about the whole shambolic running of EFC. It's about the lies and deceit continually being fed to the supporters by those running the Club.

Moyes goes... Moyes stays... it doesn't really matter. The Cancer within the Club is at Boardroom Level.

If Moyes does decide to seek pastures new, who will be responsible? When are the fanbase going to concentrate on getting rid of Kenwright instead of the infighting and division that has been caused by the lies that were spouted to try and get Kirkby approved?

And who was responsible for that? Surely not our No 1 fan. >As much as I hate the Gobshites, they would have run him out of town years ago.

Paul Ferry
108 Posted 03/02/2013 at 23:31:40
Andy Walker, Andy Walker, you don't have a single substantive point to make, do you? Give that chubby Billy teddy bear with the blue bib an extra hug tonight. A draw against a rock-bottom team with rock-bottom morale is something to crow about? 12 out of 25 draws, Billy Walker? Too many missed points and opportunities to count on the fingers of two hands?

A lucky lucky 5th in a very mediocre Prem season. Don't get me wrong, 5th is the product of: (1) some good stuff from us and (2) the fact that the usual suspects around us cannot go on good runs. If (2) happens we will slip a little as we cannot develop the momentum it seems these last few weeks to pile up Prem wins.

Our closing games are harder than the ones we have had to cope with up to now. Your shallow "arguments" and selective use of stats does not serve you well, Billy Walker.

Anto Byrne
109 Posted 04/02/2013 at 03:28:38
Old Trafford next, I think... and we are due for some fortune over them. Last year, we got a 4 - 4 draw; given the number of drawn games so far this season, its a banker for another draw.

There will be a sell-out crowd no doubt in the region of 76,000 and a worldwide audience of 5 billion. So what will the tactic be? Keep it tight and settle for a point? I expect that they will get an early gift and then shut up shop and add another 3 points to their tally.

This is really a big game and Moyes should not be down-playing it as just another game. Ten plus years and we've not looked like ever getting a win there... surely the man has to get his charges up and treat this game like a big Euro cup game?

Win at Man Utd, Mr Moyes, and I will give you a 150% respect 100% of the time. Capitulate and... well, what do we really expect?

Rob Smith
110 Posted 04/02/2013 at 05:37:56
My first post and I'm an Aussie but have supported Everton for a long time. TW has been my news source for many years. I get to see nearly every Blues game but only from a TV perspective.

I think our biggest problem besides Jelly being out of touch and Mirallas not playing enough games, otherwise he would have scored more goals, is that Osman and Pienaar have weak as piss shots on them. Those two, for all the minutes they get, do not score enough. The Manchesters and other sides around our position have any number of players that can pot goals for fun.

Our goals against is no worse or even a touch better than most teams around us, it's just we miss the sitters more often and really Osman and Pienaar are the worst culprits; we are lucky Felli has been in a bit of form and Baines has a great set shot on him, it could have been ugly.

Would it be stupid to consider giving Oviedo a run in the side? He does look like he has a pretty handy shot on him: move Pienaar to Osman's spot, I think Pienaar is more creative thinking with the ball... Osman to the bench.

That gives us Anichebe, Fellaini , Jelavic, Mirallas, Oviedo and Baines who at least can shoot. I have watched Osman especially miss more sitters than Torres, which could have turned 4 of our 12 draws into wins.

Andy Walker
111 Posted 04/02/2013 at 08:04:14
#652, a measured response or an agenda? Mmmm
Phil Sammon
112 Posted 04/02/2013 at 08:34:46
'A lucky lucky 5th in a very mediocre Prem season.'

That says it all really. If we do well, it's luck. If we do badly its not bad luck, it's bad management.

Why are some fans so keen to knock the club? I'm no BK fan and I see DM's failings too...but some of the blinkered bashing on here is a joke.

Andy Walker
113 Posted 04/02/2013 at 12:39:20
Phil, I agree, I also am no apologist for Moyes having been very critical of him for not dropping Jelavic at the end of last year. However, it's a game of opinions and we'll never all agree.

However basic personal abuse regardless of the team's performance and results makes me question the motives of the individuals concerned. It just looks like abuse for abuses sake, which is no use to anyone.

We were expected to win on Saturday, but Heitinga was dire and with 20 mins to go and 3 - 1 down, coming back to 3 - 3 will have been of immeasurable benefit to the teams spirit and belief, which will hold us in good stead for the next matches. If we'd lost a 3-goal lead and drawn it would have been a totally different dynamic.

Kevin Hudson
114 Posted 04/02/2013 at 18:14:14
(652)

The fact that the "usual suspects cannot go on good runs," only serves to underscore both the difficulty of the Premier League, and the excellent job David Moyes is doing..

Dean Adams
115 Posted 04/02/2013 at 18:24:43
Anto Byrne 672

I was really thinking we would have won at Old Trafford last season had the ref played the extra time that was wasted by united after our 3rd goal. When Jags broke free, I really hoped that it was going to be our hour, but alas.....maybe next time.

Paul Ferry
116 Posted 04/02/2013 at 18:45:07
Kevin (#807) don't be so shallow stupid. So, it's a top quality season with seven or eight cracking teams and Moyes-man has done 'an excellent job' keeping us up where we are? Total unmitigated 100 per cent bollocks from start to finish. What lengths/depths will you go to to paint the gaffer in the brightest lights?

I'll say this slowly and carefully: we are 5th not because of 12 out of 25 draws but because others around us are below par this season and our 5th place is the outcome of some cracking play and fight on our part and the "cannot be counted on," less-than-satisfactory performances of those around us.

Simple. It's not rocket science, is it?

Brian Waring
117 Posted 04/02/2013 at 22:40:22
The funny thing is about the Villa game and us all expecting to win it, well maybe we shouldn't have expected it when you look at the stats, against the bottom 8 teams up to now this season, we have dropped 17 pts against them.
Kevin Hudson
118 Posted 04/02/2013 at 23:36:11
Paul,

"We are 5th because other teams are below par this season.."

Who would that be, Arsenal..?

Sure, despite more investment, (Giroud, Podolski, Mertesacker, Cazorla, the new left-back) indeed they are under-performing..

Again, this only re-inforces how good a job Moyes is doing with the comparative buttons he simply HAS to spend wisely.

Do you honestly believe that if asked, ANY of the eighty-seven managers below, or the remaining four managers of teams above Everton, (with their unlimited chequebooks...) would professionally share your insane attitude towards Moyes...?

Would they hell - and you know it.

Stop drinking the Kool Aid!!

Harold Matthews
119 Posted 05/02/2013 at 00:02:48
Rob, Paul, Brian. etc, etc Find myself nodding all the way.

Osman and Pienaar..!!?? What's up with these guys? Why are they so weak? Their shots are like back passes and whenever Osman takes a corner he has trouble reaching the six-yard area. Baines demonstrated against West Brom, exactly what they should be doing... ie, Bursting forward and hitting the thing.... hard!

We draw far too many games but our consistency keeps us in 5th place. We are very difficult to beat. Our team spirit is second to none. Nevertheless, as Paul and others have pointed out, the rivals for 4th spot have been anything but consistent. Their fans have almost chucked in the towel.

Personally, I think, on recent form, 5th place flatters us but a return to something like our best is confidently expected within the next few weeks.

Brian's stat – 17 pts dropped against the bottom 8 teams – this is truly awful. If there is a good reason for this, I am missing it. Does anyone have a clue? Heavy ground and missed chances haven't helped but there's got to be more to it than that.

Ian Allaker
120 Posted 05/02/2013 at 01:39:34
Harold, the reason is because of too many individual errors from Jelly, Heitinga, Osman and Howard and the very poor shots from Pienaar and Osman. The bottom teams have also took point of some of the other top teams. Man City QPR, QPR Chelsea, Newcatle Chelsea, Villa Liverpool etc, thats the magic of footbal, anyone can beat anyone on their day.
Ian Linn
121 Posted 05/02/2013 at 05:39:46
Fuck me, 5th in the league after Christmas and it's nowhere near good enough.

Somebody said what a great signing Sissoko was for Newcastle – unbelievable – he's played one fucking game.

If Moyes leaves, who the fuck is going to come in and replace him? Hughes? Jol? Pardew? Lambert? Don't fucking wish too hard, it might come true.

Andy Callan
122 Posted 06/02/2013 at 03:56:13
[Editor's Note: Andy sent this in as a mailbag post; apparently he was oblivious to the animated discussion on this thread...]

No-one seems to have posted comment about the idiots in the ground at the weekend who actually booed individual players…

I understand that Mad Johnny hasn’t been playing well or that the goalie sometimes is uncertain at crosses, but do ANY of you out there actually think that singling out individuals and directing your anger at them is going to do any good whatsoever…?! It’ll just make them more nervous and prone to MORE mistakes.

I’m not surprised that Moyes took Mad Johnny off [other than the fact he was having a nightmare] and that Howard reacted that way he did towards the Street End.

You seem to forget that Mad Johnny was player of the year last season; the manager picks him after all, so I think you should direct your anguish towards Moyes next time. Jags plays for England at Centre Half and our manager picks him at fullback… Make of that what you will.

Jesus Christ, they’re all Everton players out there and no matter how bad they’re playing, booing them individually is counter-productive and stupid.

Get behind them – we need each one of them due to how threadbare the squad is.

COYB

Simon Harris
123 Posted 06/02/2013 at 04:29:29
Rob #674 - firstly, welcome to the party. I agree that Osman's form has dipped in recent games and in an ideal world I'm sure Moyes would have rested him by now.

The frustration of missing the opportunity to pick up a top quality midfielder last month was all too evident on Saturday when Osman was largely anonymous again, but options to replace him limited.

I'm yet to be convinced by Oviedo and where his best position is likely to be in an Everton 1st team, as without game time it's hard to judge. Moyes maybe easing him in; but I feel he's already consigned him to understudy and bit part roles. At least for this season.

Finally, I agree with Andy Callan's post about booing players. It was the managers mistake to play Heitinga and perservering with him for so long. Call me old fashioned, but I've always felt booing an Everton player isn't really gonna help anyone and is self defeating as a supporter of the 11 boys in blue.

The Goodison 'rallying roar' when we fell behind, is sadly less evident nowadays.


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