Baines the culprit as Blues fizzle out

, 20 April, 260comments  |  Jump to most recent
Sunderland 1 - 0 Everton
Everton took the early sting out of a rampant Sunderland in the first half through a disciplined and competent holding game until right before the break, when a shocking Baines giveaway let Sessegnon in to score. Jelavic replaced the ineffective (injured?) Gibson but the second half was a dismal affair with no decent effort on goal that ends any dreams of 4th place.

Match Summary

Everton took on a lively Sunderland side at a packed Stadium of Light, bouncing after their 3-0 defeat of Newcastle last week, but Everton have a pretty impressive record over the last 11 years. Phil Jagielka is out injured, replaced by Johnny Heitinga at the back, but Leon Osman returns with Ross Barkley back on the bench, with Jelavic, Naismith and Neville.

Sunderland kicked off with the Mackems excited to welcome new manager Di Canio but they got themselves offside early on. An early corner won by Mirallas was swung over by Baines, but caught well by Mignolet. Heitinga almost let them in at the other end as Howard hesitated and then blocked away the danger.

A Baines cross won a second corner that Fellaini looked to have headed behind but Mirallas got three bites of the cherry, the last played short and forcing a stretch from Mignolet. It needed good defending at the other end from Baines, then Distin, then Fellaini, who gave Sunderland their first corner. Fellaini then blocked to give away a dangerous free-kick that Larsson blasted over.

Everton were resisting the early enthusiasm from the home side and finally got some decent passing going, without threatening the Sunderland goal. Mirallas won another corner Baines curled in, Mignolet punching. The next corner was less effective.

McClean didn't like the attention from Everton's Belgian pair and could have been called for kicking out at Kevin Mirallas. Osman had been working hard but allowed Larsson to dispossess him and Fellaini picked up his final warning for rough play from Phil Dowd.

Howard did very well to fist away a good Sunderland corner that had the Makems screaming when Heitinga and Larsson tumbled. Everton kept trying to play in Anichebe, who was the lone outlet up front, but the ball wasn't really sticking for him while the Sunderland marking limited his space effectively.

Mirallas got in a good run through the right channel and his deflected shot won another corner but still no breakthrough, as the Blues mixed it up with some long balls, one Fellaini almost came close to converting. Some odd decisions included a free-kick called against Coleman for a non-handball, Seb Larsson coming very close with the free-kick, just an inch or two past the angle.

Heitinga got the first card when Dowd adjudged that he had blocked Rose, giving Larsson another free-kick chance, this time finally on target but Howard watched it all the way. But just before the break they did get the goal, a dreadful Baines giveaway that Sessegnon ran onto and fired low, it dribbling past Howard after he could not take the power out of it.

A free-kick for Baines at the other end came to nothing and all the hard defensive work of the half lay in taters. Jelavic replaced Gibson (presumably unfit) and the Blues attacked with renewed vigour after the break, Moyes realizing that goals must be scored, but with not much improvement in chances created.

Anichebe got a good run in down the left and Jelavic almost scored from the corner but Dowd signalled a foul on Mignolet, with little going Everton's way. Johnson made Baines statuesque as they threatened to extend the lead.

Baines did get a cross in for Jelavic but his header was a little lame and bounced wide. Jelavic then came close to flicking on a Fellaini shot after Anichebe's first decent attempt at holding the ball up.Jelavic was key in the next attack, on a great crossfield ball from Mirallas but Anichebe's hurried shot was poor.

Anichebe looked better, turning Rose but the Sunderland player recovered to deny him. Coleman won another corner but again Mignolet had it covered. Another corner, played short by Mirallas, then clipped in long, no-one at the far post....

The Blues needed something and that would be Ross Barkley and Steven Naismith in place of Osman and Anichebe. Naismith then forced a crazy backpass that Mignolet had to catch, getting a yellow card an indirect free-kick inside the Sunderland area. But Baines could not power it home and nothing came of the frantic follow-up ding-dong.

Everton were getting more balls into the Sunderland area but nothing would fall right while Howard had to save big from Johnson at the other end.

The clock ticked away on Everton's final weak efforts to preserve their interest in the Champions League but it was never going to happen. A really poor second half performance that lacked a single worthwhile effort on goal, despite the Blues dominating the possession stats.

Sunderland: Mignolet Y:78', Larsson (81' Vaughan), O'Shea, Cuellar, Rose, Johnson, N'Diaye, Colback, McClean, Graham, Sessegnon (90+1' Mangane). Subs: Westwood, Kilgallon, Marrs, Mandron, Laidler.

Everton: Howard; Coleman Y:76', Heitinga Y:44', Distin, Baines; Mirallas, Gibson (46' Jelavic), Fellaini, Pienaar, Osman (77' Barkley); Anichebe (77' Naismith). Subs not Used: Mucha, Duffy, Oviedo, Neville.

Referee: Phil Dowd

Quotes or other material sourced from ToffeeWeb Match Reports



Reader Comments (260)

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Paul Andrews
1 Posted 20/04/2013 at 14:01:24
Jags failed a fitness test I hear.
Ernie Baywood
2 Posted 20/04/2013 at 14:14:29
Osman in for Barkley and Heitinga for Jags.
John Sankey
3 Posted 20/04/2013 at 14:16:10
Absolutely no reason to drop Barkley, he doesn't half do wonders for the lad's confidence, Moyes does. Back to route one then today.
Ernie Baywood
4 Posted 20/04/2013 at 14:27:32
Must admit I would have liked to have seen Ross again. But the tactics will be slightly different. We'll look to have more possession further forward in midfield and build chances. Against Arsenal the fear of them breaking play down abd then countering with pace meant we never really did that.

Expecting a big game from the 4 wingers today with plenty of balls swung in from good positions.

Dean Adams
5 Posted 20/04/2013 at 14:47:31
Let's hope we are all smiling at the final whistle.
Stu Smith
6 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:18:17
Does anyone have a link?
Rob Smith
7 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:34:29
Osman ffs...useless twat..
Ralph Basnett
8 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:46:16
Moyes' favorites straight back in, 1-0 behind. 45 minutes!!!! If it's not the first minute it's the last. Muchawww never seemed to lose concentration. Goodbye Moyes - good riddance.......
Steven Telford
9 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:45:35
Heitinga is a serious liability, a rank amature, I cannot believe that guy ever played in a world cup final.
Timothy Sebastian
10 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:56:41
Osman is really offering nothing. Why did Moyes chose to drop Barkley?
Ralph Basnett
11 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:58:43
He dropped Barkley because he did well! Moyes will change it on 88 a bring Naismith on to try and grab an equalizer! Same old same old..........
Bill Gall
12 Posted 20/04/2013 at 15:53:31
I can't understand why David Moyes is being blamed for the goal, it was poor play from the defender.

Everton are playing at a walking pace and do not seem to have the same spirit as against Arsenal, and Sunderland seem to playing like they are the only team that wants the points.

I hope Everton pick up the second half.

Rob Smith
13 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:22:01
20 min to go, get Osman off..Barkley on, nothing to lose now.
Phil Rodgers
14 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:45:51
Worst league performance of the season
Ralph Basnett
15 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:49:44
The shite do us a favor tomorrow? I think they will be doing themselves a favour by beating Chelsea and us and pip us to the Europa Cup, maybe not such a bad thing as this squad is shit and would probably get embarrassed by the like of Glentoran etc......
Tony Hanlon
16 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:47:55
So now the euphoria of Europe has gone, let's do a quick review of the season:

Out of League Cup by a Championship team.
Out of FA cup at home to Wigan.
Still not won at Sky 4 (46 games and counting)
And Anichebe is our main striker

Moyes, you will always be a loser.
Timothy Sebastian
17 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:53:31
This team just doesn't have the winners spirit. When they have to win a game, they usually don't have the bottle to get the job done.
Richard Tarleton
18 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:58:04
I saw them at Reading, if it was worse than that it is bad!
Anthony Jones
19 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:57:34
Good try Moyes, but now is the time to leave. Please take your lapdogs with you. Martinez, welcome to Goodison.
Tony Hanlon
20 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:58:20
Seriously what does Naismith offer the team coming of the bench ? Anyone ....
Mick Fleming
21 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:54:19
Typical, typical, typical. When the chips are down shit your pants and hold up the white flag Everton, AGAIN. If ever I wanted reminding of why Moyes is inept and simply has to go then this is it. Oh I fucking despair I really do, watch us just fold a fizzle out with a whimper and to go back on my first words, that would be typical, typical, typical.
Steve Brown
22 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:59:59
Blame the players not the manager - Pienaar, Osman, Heitinga, Gibson, Miralles, Anichebe, Baines - they all sucked. Only Fellaini and Coleman turned up today.
Tony Hanlon
23 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:00:12
Anthony Jones ... Is this the same Martinez who is cuurently 3rd bottom
Mick Fleming
25 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:02:44
Steve Brown and not forgetting the incompetent buffoon who picks the players, decides tactics and formations, makes substitutions and gets paid a kings ransom eh!!
Terry McLavey
26 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:54:27
How many goals and stupid free kicks have we gifted other teams this season FFS?! Champions League do me a favour!

Does Naismith have a clause in his contract for appearances? Because his mate brings him on every week regardless of how shite he is!

We had 68% of play at one point! We need to offload all our championship players in the "summer"... But I suppose we did play earlier in the week — fancy having to work two fuckin' days!

Steven Telford
27 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:57:59
Rubbish performance, Rubbish game....... Those guys weren't fit to wear the shirt today.

Season over, it was nice to dream but that's all folks.

On the last home game of the season, the crowd should vent at vent Kenwight. The January transfer window was a disgrace for a team in our position, and so looks to be the nail in the coffin of 2012-13.

Tom Bowers
28 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:57:23
Moyes has proved today that he is clueless. He cannot motivate this team and has no fresh ideas so he persists with the same old tired and failed players and tactics.

Losing today in such a fashion after a run of mediocre performances despite scraping up points was the final nail in his coffin in my book. For the next game, I would start the benchwarmers and leave out the usual suspects but then that is my choice and we all know Moyes will be stubborn yet again.

Nick Entwistle
29 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:02:26
Equal first half, only a Baines pass the difference. So no wonder Sunderland sat back. There's is no worse team in the Prem for facing a parked bus.


Just 4 games to go when CL disappears out of sight... brave effort but its still nothing, nada, zilch.

Don't think Moyes will hang around now, not with any extra investment coming through.

John Malone
30 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:04:55
Can't understand why Fellaini never started up top off Anichebe, in a must win game why play Felli defensive mid???

Getting used to the feeling of disappointment.

Alan McGuffog
31 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:02:34
Probably just as well. For all our spirit, ability , all the shots on goal, all the imaginative approach play and running off the ball, at the end of the day we can't compete with these top sides like Sunderland. Gallant little Everton.
If we got drawn in the Europa against, say, a top side from Turkmenistan or Andorra we could get a battering that would set us back years.
Just think after such a brilliant season we might, just might, finish above a really average Liverpool side. Get that bus out of the garage !
Might well be time to get a new badge after all
Kunal Desai
32 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:05:19
Couple of points, evident to see we that we cannot cope with two games in a week even with a fully fit squad, therefore the Europa league would pretty much kill us (although I don't want the europa league and I don't think we'll get it). Secondly get rid of Jelavic, we need to try and look for strikers (and we'll need more than one in the summer) who can change games, patience is wearing thin with Jelavic and he's looks more often than not that he's not interested any longer. I think there are few others who need to be looking at their position as Pienaar is another. Finally i'm glad the talk of 4th is now put to bed once and for all, especially to all those dreamers!! Ha.
Ray Roche
33 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:06:12
Ask yourself, does Naismith look like the type of player who can turn a game around? Probably not. Does Heitinga instil a feeling of "clean sheet ahead"? Definitely not. Does Pienaar deserve his place at the moment. Nope. Should he be left on the pitch, stinking the place out and already booked. No chance. So we carried those three today at a ground where they are well up for a fight, Di Canios first home game and coming on the back of a 3-0 away Derby victory. Words almost fail me. And when the commentator said Bungalow Bill had been a "great backer" of Everton I was almost sick.
Steve Brown
34 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:10:32
Mick 156, good point. Blame the players and the manager - Pienaar, Osman, Heitinga, Gibson, Miralles, Anichebe, Baines, Moyes, Round - they all sucked. Only Fellaini and Coleman turned up today.
Steve Brown
35 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:13:17
Surely Moyes will depart now. Michael Laudrup anyone?
James Byrne
36 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:06:51
Nothing against Steve Brown #153.......

Some of the players might have sucked today, but the sole responsibility of the Manager is to motivate the players with a sound game plan and to provide tactical knowledge for this particular game.

I'm convinced now that Moyes and his management team are probably that arrogant that they probably didn't even do any technical home work on Sunderland, thinking this would be an easy away day.

The difference with this game was that Di Canio had done his homework and motivated his players in the proper way.

Goodbye, Moyes — and thanks for the shite tactics over the years; they won't be missed!

Tom Bowers
37 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:09:10
Moyes should do the honorable thing and quit now. His ideas stink and, despite the so-called lack of funding, that cannot be used as an excuse for the players he picks and the tactics.

Come on, Kenwright, get it right! Everton need a fresh approach and that means getting rid of the old guard, Moyes and Round.

Nick Entwistle
38 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:10:57
Kunal, you're glad 4th has been put to bed? Lame. You talk of limitations of a squad, but you've got limitations in your hopes. We were still in the running today... but no more.

As for a new striker, I mean, unless we can swap Fellaini for Lukaku, the likes of even a Benteke at the £7m Villa paid are a rarity and he's now worth £20m.

The only way for decent players to come to the club post Moyes is if the manager is a name like Ryjkaard. No one is turning up to play for Martinez or McLaren.

Steve Brown
39 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:14:48
James I agree and have corrected! Let's not let the players off the hook though. They were a disgrace today.
Kevin Tully
40 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:08:09
You only have to look at the goal difference in the table - we are 16 goals shy of 4th place. We are miles off a Champions League team, we are a 7th -10th place team, but Moyes has found a formula to make up a few places in the League.

We all know what that formula is, KITANO, he is very good at organising the side, and drilling the team on their particular roles, this is why we generally do a little better than the teams around us.

He will always have well organised teams whose first job is to be hard to beat, but that's all you can expect.

He is not the next Fergie or Wenger unforunately.

Dean Adams
41 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:16:06
Dissapointment- bloody horrible feeling. Season over now, lost all interest after watching that drivel. Sounds like I'm not alone.
Jamie Crowley
42 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:16:45
Every time there is reason for hope this team lays a big steaming turd.
Robin Cannon
44 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:12:26
I almost think I'd prefer it if we were *always* shit. At least then there wouldn't be the continual encouragement of hope immediately replaced with grave disappointment.

That was a truly woeful, "couldn't give a fuck" performance by the players, which both they and Moyes have to take responsibility for, I think probably encouraged by a conservative initial team selection by Moyes.

There is no excuse now for playing the likes of Osman, Heitinga, Naismith etc through the end of the season. We're not qualifying for Europe, we're not going to learn anything new about those players, so surely we should be giving some youngster more of an opportunity. Won't bloody happen, though.

I've had a lot of time for Moyes in the past, and I still don't believe that *any* manager will be able to achieve long term success at Everton while continually hamstrung by the boardroom, his conservatism is infuriating. We must take more risks if we're to possibly achieve more success. It may backfire, but we're clearly not going to break the glass ceiling with the current conservative approach.

Mick Fleming
45 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:20:09
Jamie Crowley, and that's our managers legacy. Finishing above the shite will come down to the derby and guess what's gonna happen in that one?
Phil Roberts
46 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:18:14
Looking forward to Martinez as the manager - I do so miss those days of the end of season scrap against relegation.

Willingly I would swop the end of season elation of surviving relegation than the misery of not getting into the Champions League.

Alan McGuffog
47 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:19:36
Jamie, you are a genius sir. Yours is the best suggestion I have come across for our new crest. Great steaming turd and underneath something like " Can't really be arsed "
Nick Entwistle
48 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:18:47
Kevin, we're not miles off a team (squad maybe) but we're neck and neck with Spurs who qualified last season but for Chelsea's final win.

Its unfair to dismiss what Moyes does as merely finding a formula, as if what he does doesn't really count.

Maybe it is a formula, but one where only 15 decent players took 34 games to finally remove themselves from top 4 running. How can you dismiss that?

Douglas Turner
49 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:14:42
Everton were crap today granted but the Ref didn't allow us to get back in the game! We need to sign quality players to compensate for the shit load of decisions that go against us!
Kunal Desai
50 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:21:46
Nick - I have said time and time again, it's not limitations it's being realistic with the quality in the squad we have and a manager who in the main has done reasonable still has his own limitations with the use of substitutions and poor tactics. I think your amongst a few others need to have a good sit down at the start of the season, Did you honesty think we'd be finishing above Man.U Citeh, Arsenal and Chelsea. Behave!!! Your a dreamer and that's what it was for 4th place.
Barry Rathbone
51 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:16:45
He's a good laugh Moyes a complete liability if you want success but a good laugh nonetheless. You could set your watch by the timing of Ossie coming in for Barkley.

He was forced into a creative side against Arsenal and it turned out to be really effective so obviously on planet Moyes there's only one thing to do.... change the fucker!!

Sunderland man for man are shite but Di Canio, full house, belief, passion – nailed on we'd wander round with our thumbs up our arse.

Roll on Anfield, eh!

Nick Entwistle
52 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:29:05
Kunal, that dream went on the 34 game mark. Dreamer? No. We only had to finish above 2 of the top 6... may end up only being one.

All the talk this week has been on CL football... was everyone drunk or something?

If I need to sit down and have a think, then obviously taking it this far into the season isn't good enough for you. It isn't good enough for me, but then realities must be recognised.

Not having those few extra points maybe down to his tactics and subs, but where we are is certainly down to the manager and again no one with our resources comes close to Moyes and his Everton.

Shaun Gray
53 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:08:14
Slow down, you move too fast... Not one everton player was good enough today, but life could be worse. My second team, 1860 Munich, lost at home, so, stay in the 2nd Division.
My idea: sign Ivica Olic from Wolfsburg; maybe he helps Jelavic relax in the box. Same landsman makes him comfortable in the UK.... Jelli happy, goals — Olic mates with Jelli.... More goals!!!
Kevin Tully
54 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:28:15
Nick, look back at our results this season, they tell a story. We are actually 17 goals shy of 4th, can you imagine how much more we would have to improve to score another 17 goals?

I am not dismissing anything Moyes has achieved, he has found what works for him, and that is why he keeps players long past their sell-by date, because they all adhere to his formulaic way of playing the game. It brings results, but wins you nothing.

Clive Lewis
55 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:30:00
Yes Spurs spent 50 million this season , impossible to compete. Its a pipe dream really only thing left is the idea of another 5 years with a possible relegation to come cant wait. Better get the Bill out placards ready.
Terry Maher
56 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:33:48
Same old season — no silverware and no European football.

Big changes needed in the summer... bye bye, Moyes: you have took us as far as you can.

Ross Edwards
57 Posted 20/04/2013 at 16:56:40
If anyone has a defence for that uninspiring, couldn't be bothered, don't care, I'll get my wages on Sunday anyway, embarrassing, insulting, crap, I will be amazed. If there was ever an arguement for this tactically inept bottler, show them this performance.

Credit to Ellis Short, who saw that O'Neill had stagnated and felt the need to replace him with PDC. That 90 minutes summed up the 11 years of David Moyes, desperately in need of a goal, he finally decides with 15 minutes to go to put Barkley on, and put Naismith on. At one point, we had just Jela in the box, a player who has only 1 goal in 18 matches. 9 men behind the ball when 1-0 down away from home, just about sums Moyes and his tactics up, in need of a goal, and puts Naismith on, the worst player in Everton's history.

We won't get Europe now, the RS will overtake us, and I would dread to see what we would be like in Europe, as the performance of the players were embarrassing, they should be ashamed of themselves, especially Pienaar, who did not even try a leg out there today.

In fact, Moyes was just as bad as he didn't even realise that he was the worst player on the pitch, he couldn't even pass the ball to anyone, which shows his ineptitude, as any other manager would have realised that a sub was needed, why not Oviedo,or Barkley earlier?

Jelavic just wondered about, falling over as usual, showed how desperate Moyes became, relying on a man who has scored only 1 goal in 18 League matches. He didn't even try to win anything out there.

Moyes's tactics were non-existent, and he and all of the players should hang their heads in shame because that was an insult to us watching, and the 2,000 fans who spent a lot of money to travel to watch an embarrassing performance, they should all be refunded every penny as they, and we deserve better at Everton Football Club.

Moyes ran out of ideas and showed he lost the plot by taking a goal threat, Vic off, to put Naismith, who has the effect of having 10 men on the pitch when in desperate need of a goal. Europe? We were absolutely shocking and we looked like a team at the bottom of the table out there.

Credit to Di Canio, who in 3 weeks has instilled confidence and passion in that team that was non existent under O'Neill. He pressured, berated every player, Moyes, however, stood there clueless, and spent more time berating the 4th official than he did the players.

An example which summed it up was when one of many passes was intercepted, what did Moyes do? He didn't berate or have a go at the player in question. Of course not, this was his reaction: "Oh No." He has little or no motivational techniques whatsoever, and the reason no one looked motivated was purely down to Moyes. He sets the team up, he is supposed to galvanise the players to perform, he didn't do that at all.

I am waiting for the usual suspects like Doddy and Sam Hoare to defend their man and the team, but if they do I will be stunned. That performance today was indefensible and if Moyes has any shred of dignity, which the media says he has, he would resign instantly, or at least apologise, because that was unacceptable.

And if BK was a true fan, (which of course he isn't, he got carried over the heads of kopites in the Kop didn't he?) he would demand an apology from Moyes or have a word with him, but he won't as they are inseperable at the hip.

This is why I want Moyes out in the summer. This performance was the final straw. Di Canio has been a breath of fresh air for Sunderland, and he has shown the benefits of a managerial change.

If there are people who are frightened of change, or are afraid of a managerial change next season, should think again as how could you defend that? A team, and a manager with no bottle whatsoever, who don't deserve to represent Everton.

Let Dodd and the gang's defence begin...

Patrick Murphy
58 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:34:03
Just one away win in the PL since the start of 2013, 3 defeats - Today, Man U and Norwich - 3 draws at Arsenal, Spurs and Southampton with a solitary success at Newcastle on the 2nd January. Why did we ever think that Europe was a possibility when we can only muster 6 points from 21 points available to us. Mind you we are due an away win - Anfield anyone?
Nick Entwistle
60 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:36:41
17 goals? I'd rather go by points Kevin. We have limitations - no Rooney, RVP, a billionaire owner... but we've taken it closer than at any time since 05, and that's as close as any other team has ever done without the resources.

It makes me think some of you guys think we have a natural position of say 6th 7th, and that if we had someone better than Moyes we could finish above our usual place.
We've had no transfer budget for five years, 9th best wage level and we've taken CL challenge into April with just a few games remaining. That is not where your normal manager would have us finish.

Moyes is a cut above.

Phil Roberts
61 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:38:07
Just looked at the future fixtures and Wigan have Spurs and Arsenal still to play so will probably face a last day match with Villa to see who goes down.

Could be good news for us if Villa escape as Martinez would then be fired for getting them relegated and Bill won't have to pay any compensation and then we can get Martinez who will be enough to take us into Champions League football.

Or am I missing something here?

Kevin Tully
62 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:41:00
Moyes is a good manager Nick, but he has not got that magic touch the really good or great mangers have, maybe we could find one for £4m a season?
Kunal Desai
63 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:39:36
Nick — "that dream went on the 34 game mark. Dreamer? No. We only had to finish above 2 of the top 6... may end up only being one" — We may have been up there "chasing" the top 4 but it was never going to happen, Arsenal generally come good in the last 12 games of the season and Chelsea have quality to put out two sides let alone one.

"All the talk this week has been on CL football... was everyone drunk or something?" I don't think so, what getting a point at Arsenal put us back into the CL running? Can't have that mate, the only significance of playing Arsenal was that we played a game or two more compared to those above us. I can almost tell you what the likely scenario will be in the remaining games, probably 6 points against Fulham and West Ham at the same time I'm not anticipating wins against the Shite or Chelsea.

Barry Rathbone
64 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:46:24
Phil, better Wigan survive too many won't give Martinez a chance if he arrives in place of the sainted one anyway.

Calling him a relegation manager would be catnip to the Moyes boys.

Jamie Crowley
65 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:53:46
My personal favorite was they lumped 2-3 balls into the box - to Naismith!

The guy's like 5'2" tall FFS!

Paul Andrews
66 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:56:59
A lot of people have been kidding themselves for a while now. It was always going to be 6th or 7th. I myself think it will be 7th with our beloved neighbours going above us in the derby game.

Time to face facts, gentlemen: David is a dour "don't get beat", safety-first defensive-minded manager. I think I am right in saying we have only scored more than 50 goals in a season 3 times since he has been here. That's 50 goals in a 38 game season. One season under his expert guidance we scored 34 goals in 38 games.

Ross Edwards
67 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:59:03
Nick — "Moyes is a cut above"... Missed out the "n", mate.

Moyes has basically admitted in his interview on Radio City that he only made subs because of "injuries" to Vic and Gibbo, and that Sunderland had ran out of ideas! Ironic, considering we had no ideas at all.

The interviewer on City asked him if Jelavic for Gibson was tactical, he said no. I interpreted this as Moyes not even attempting to get back into the game at all.

John Ford
68 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:49:59
Kevin T it's not the magic touch of a manager we need but the magic owner.

Today was poor, and frustrating. We fell to the honeymoon period of a new manager and Moyes was slow to make changes.. Anyone who uses the three week tenure of PDC as proof that we need a new manager I'd completely deluded. let's see how he goes. He will have more cash than Moyes but like the rest he will inevitably fail. .

We're all well pissed of with not being able to challenge for the top places. We've had a good go this year. Inevitably it's fallen flat. I don't care which manager comes this summer, were unlikely to do better than we are now.. That's not me settling for relative mediocrity and id be happy to be proved wrong. I would hold out some hope of us pushing harder if there was someone, anyone anywhere over the past ten/fifteen years who has shown that its possible on a less than average budget. That's the worst thing. Statistically ,at this point it appears to be an impossibility.

To scrap for the top places year on year you need a good manager and good money. We have one of the two.

Nick Entwistle
69 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:09:22
Kevin, those really great managers with the magic touch, those above us who have won titles and champion leagues, also have every possible desire at their disposal.

What do we have?

Kunal, we were still talking of CL football at 2:59pm. We could have been one point off the top 4 today had results gone our way. If buts and maybes, but that's with 4 games to go. 4 for Christ's sake.

Jamie Crowley
70 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:09:38
Kenwright needs to stand in the front row of the Glawdy's Street end. His uncle / dad / whoever should stand outside Goodison on the street, waving.

Pick up the fat tub-o-lard and pass him over heads to the top row and pitch him out over the top of the stadium to his waiting, waving relative.

Precious. Nostalgic. Bill would talk about it as his fondest memory forever.

Eugene Ruane
71 Posted 20/04/2013 at 17:45:55
Not a surprise at all today.

As a team we've no real guile and we give the ball away constantly.

We so often look (for want of a better word) dumb in how we approach breaking down defences.

We generally work hard which will get you so far but..no further.

If we can't afford top players (and I accept right now we can't) we need, imo to find a Nolan type.

A nark, a big mouth, a nasty bastard, a REAL captain who will dish out bollockings and isn't scared to scream at his own players.

Too many of our players are cruising, we need a leader ON the pitch.

Doesn't have to be a great player just a great leader - not easy to find but I believe this player is an absolute necessity.

We're an incredibly quiet side and switch off far too easily and when we do, there's nobody to switch us 'on' again.

Hope Moyes goes in the summer, if for no other reason than because I think anyone else might pick a footballer (Barkley) over a journeyman (Osman).


Paul Andrews
72 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:09:56
Ray Roche 164,
That is the myth his publicity machine spreads,people in football genuinely believe he is a great backer of Moyes.
A great backer who has not invested one penny in Everton Football Club since he bought his shares.Shares he will make a massive profit on when he sells the club.
Mohammed Horoub
73 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:02:22
That was depressing... Poor performance, bad tactics and a really bad goal to concede. I know Baines made a mistake but Howard should at least turn it away for a corner.

Players that didn't deserve to lose today: Coleman, Fellaini and Distin
Players that don't deserve their place: Pienaar, Osman (still hurt) and Heitinga (Duffy must shake his head everytime Johnny starts)

Today's team looked like a team with nothing to play for so Moyes needs to look in the mirror and think if what he's doing is fair to the club and players...

Like a few have said on here I think Moyes needs to announce his plans because the season effectively ended today.

James Stewart
74 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:18:58
And so it ends with a whimper....

Once again with so much at stake we offer so little and turn in one of our worst performances of the season. Bottlers just like against Wigan.

Richard Dodd
75 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:11:14
Hey, we just lost a game, that`s all. We lose so few this season that we`re not used to it. We`ll still finish 6th or 7th and there`s no disgrace in that.

Moyes MUST stay!

Patrick Murphy
76 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:09:45
The financial situation is no excuse for not being able to play the game. Some of our players all too often fail to get the basics right. There appears little thought given to set pieces which for a team with our 'limitations' should be a priority. All in all it just feels like they go through the motions of playing the game, with little belief in what they are doing - unless of course they are playing against teams who are vastly superior to them and then we see the up and at em attitude which goes missing against the lower lights of the league. If we perform in the next four games like we did today I can see us failing to win a single point never mind win.

Phil Walling
79 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:23:28
Finish in seven and Doddy's in heaven, eh?

Time for a clean-out at Goodison, I say!

Kevin Tully
80 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:19:36
Give any decent manager 11 years to shape a team without any pressure,a budget to pay on average of £50k a week to his first teamers, at one of the best supported sides in the League, and I would say we are achieving par.

We have won nothing, and we have a legacy of one of the oldest teams in the League.

An average return for me, some high points, some low points.

Richard Dodd
81 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:27:06
It`s you who should be `in heaven,Wally. Didn`t you demonstrate your support by backing us to finish `seventhish`.Come on,own up!
Brian Waring
82 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:29:00
Have always said it, Moyes doesn't have the technical nous to be a top manager.

Top managers will see things are not working and change tactics etc; Moyes just stands there like a gormless tit.

Tony McNulty
83 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:28:31
Sad day. But frankly, do we look like a CL team?

The main problem this season has been our inability to score. I think a lot of us thought we had finally found our wonder striker last year, but this season it all turned into a damp squib.

It would take a strange set of results for us to hit 4th now.

Jamie Barlow
84 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:29:55
Spot on Nick. We were still talking about Champions League football before today's game. It's not been all doom and gloom as some on here would have us believe.

Ross, do you have to constantly talk out of your arse?

Peter Bell
85 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:32:25
Does anyone else know of another manager who qualified for the Champions League with a negative goal difference?
Christopher Kelly
86 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:32:38
Maybe it's been shouted on here before but Moyes is much more of a director of personnel (or General Manager as they say in the US) ... than a coach!

He brings in quality players but losses the plot when it comes to tactics usually.

Brian Waring
87 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:32:30
"The financial situation is no excuse for not being able to play the game"

Spot on Patrick!

Max Murphy
88 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:24:56
I thought Moyes got it just about right today. Selecting out of form Osman ahead of Barkley and playing the Dutch clown at CB.
But what wonderfully inspired substitutions! Jelavic and Naismith - no one saw that coming. So we raise our games against Man City, Spurs and Arsenal yet fail miserably against the likes of Reading, Norwich, Wigan & Sunderland. What a great motivator our manager is!
Let's look at the positives: Moyes is gone in the summer. Thank God for that!
Phil Walling
89 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:32:53
Yes,Doddy,I`m a pragmatist. And I also put £50 @ 6/4 on Kenwright still being at the helm come KO time next August.
I would be happy to lose either or both bets.But I wont!
Paul Ferry
90 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:39:58
Cheer up lads and lasses:

Scant consolation (1)

http://www.youtube.com/user/plokijuhy251?feature=

This fella, God bless ‘im, has uploaded reams of stuff from 84-85 and before and, keep scrolling down, and there’s a bunch of 40 minute ‘highlights’ of individual games.

Scant consolation (2)

‘Youngsters beat Man Utd U18s 3-0’

It felt like an I’m off in the summer day today. Tired, stale, and lacking creativity all over the pitch. Get ready for the summer clear-out starting at the top: no issue at all with any one or more of Osman, Heits, Naismith, Anichebe, Pienaar taking a walk.

The players who let us down today have been listed one after the other, I’m not going to go over it again, except to give a special mention for shitness and couldn’t carelessness to Pienaar today. Not many positives when that amount of possession is not turned into goals. That amount of possession, but how often did we give the ball way, with Osman, Felli, and Pienaar top of the giving the ball away hit parade.

Moyes is off: it’s written on the walls, on his face, and in his lack of creativity today. How he keeps Oveido on the bench week-in-and-week-out is beyond me. Barkley should have come on sooner. While hardly over, our season is starting to fizzle out. I would like to see Oveido and Barkley starting and perhaps a game or two for Duffy. And perhaps after the Derby we might give a little game-time to one or two of our hungry U-21s or even U-18s.

There was no luck in the U-18 Manure result. We need a gaffer who will look to youth a little more. And, in an ideal world, we could cherry pick say Southampton and Swansea players, that would be nice.

Well it’s the sofa for me on this shiny day outside in Chicago but not inside me. Wine and wallowing in http://www.youtube.com/user/plokijuhy251?feature=

God help us one and all.

Paul Andrews
91 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:37:38
Jamie,
A lot of people have been clinging on to the hope of 4th,because you talk about it doesn't make it realistic.
Unfortunately people have been kidding themselves.
David Jones
92 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:21:28
I can't believe how many are blaming Moyes and not the board. Yes, he has limitations but he works with limitations too! Big ones.

The board blew it for us in January with no backing at all! It's not "Moyes Out!" — it's "Kenwright Out!"

Come on. Without Moyes, I worry for us!

Jim Knightley
93 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:14:40
Yes let's replace our manager with Martinez...who manages to get his Wigan team to play for three months of every season, and will probaly get relegated this year.

Yes boo Moyes, he wont have us finishing above 100m Champ League winners Chelski...or Spurs with their much larger transfer budget, or Arsenal, who spent far more and pay over double our wages.

And we lost today to Sunderland? shame on him! Who cares if they spent 30mil in the past season...Di Canio has proved in 2 games that managerial change works, just like O'Neil did before him for several months. Moyes out

And Naismith...he is shit tbf. But look at our bench? It's a joke. Just a quick comparison:

Arsenal's bench today: Mannone (350,000) Vermaelen (8mil) Podolski (12m?) Wilshere (Youth) Chamberlain (12-15mil) Gervinho (11mil) Gibbs (/)
Everton: Mucha (free) Jelavic (5mil) Oviedo (1.5-2m) Naismith (free) Neville (3.5m) Barkley (Youth) Duffy (free?)

Our bench...worth around a quarter of Arsenal's.


Everton's name is not worth anything anymore...we are not in the 80's...we have a mid-table wage budget, and a Championship team's transfer budget. We have higher expectations...because of Moyes, no one else. We do not have the stadium, wage budget, transfer budget or the squad size of a top four, or even top six, club. We have a core 11, who can match anyone on their day, but who are in the main at the club, because they lack the ability to step up to the next level, either in terms of winning mentality or consistency. Even if Mourinho came in, without money, we wouldnt break into the top four. The next manager, who I'm sure will come in this summer, is far more likely to take us to the bottom half of the league, than improve our finishing position.

John Ford
94 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:35:11
Kevin our payroll is tenth in the division ...or ninth? Taken with our budget for new players then you're way down in terms of comparative resources. It can't be spun any other way, we are a low spending club.

The question remains whether anyone could do better. Whoever we appoint will have a worse tack record than Moyes, or will be relatively untried within the premier league. That is the field we are taking from. Granted we could pull from overseas which might be interesting. Either way the key to success is resources. Particularly when we're thinking about what we do in the league, which is what we're most interested in.

Mark Frere
95 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:13:17
Kunal
I get the feeling you'd given up believing before a ball was even kicked this season. you seem to somehow get pleasure in our short comings so you can be somehow be proved right and say to everyone "i told you so"
Ray Roche
96 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:37:45
Paul Andrews @ 205

You're right, Paul, that's one thing Bungalow Bill IS good at, having a PR machine that makes him look like a saint. Pity he's not as good at finding someone with enough money to buy the club, eh?

Al Reddish
97 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:43:47
Spot on Jim
Peter Cummings
98 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:42:40
We got what we deserved....

ZILCH!!!
Jamie Barlow
99 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:40:47
It doesn't make a difference if it was realistic or not. It was still a possibility with 5 games to go. That's not a terrible season.

James Stewart
100 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:47:58
There is no disgrace in 6/7th Richard Dodd your right. There is also no real achievement in it either is there. No nearer a cup win and no Europe in the league (again). We are treading water under Moyes and he will probably sign a new contract due to a lack of options for him and we will get another year of close but no cigar. And before anyone starts on about investment we should be beating the likes of Wigan and Sunderland with the team we currently have, had we done that we would have had Europe.
David Greenwood
101 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:42:46
I know there has been lots of comment on here about the Echo and their inability to ask the club any difficult questions.

On a similar vein has anyone from the Echo, or any other journo come to it, asked DM why his players seem able to raise their game against the bigger clubs but against Reading/Norwich/Sunderland and the other rubbish at the bottom of the table, they don't?

What does he do in training before playing these clubs, how does he motivate them? What does he say to them after these games?

Or maybe even asking why an out of form for months Peanuts still gets picked before Oviedo? or why he signed Oviedo?

From todays game, why does an unfit Osman come straight back in replacing a youngster who didn't deserve to be dropped? What does he think that will do to Barkleys confidence, how will that help his development as a footballer?

David Flanagan
102 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:42:54
Today Moyes should have stuck with Barkley but other than that the team picked itself.The substitutions were too late but the blame rests with the players.All the shite from them in the papers counts for nothing if they bottle it when it really matters.The squad lacks depth and quality and is way short of a top four team.How many of our players if any would get a game at Utd,City,Chelsea,Spurs or Arsenal....whether its 5th,6th or 7th doesnt change the facts that we are lacking especially in creativity and up front
Kevin Tully
103 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:43:00
In all probability John, you may well be correct, but we should be able to win a League Cup or some pot after 11 years of trying. Or go to Liverpool or Man U and win once every 10 or 11 years!

As Evertonians, I don't think we expect that much. Some just lower the bar that much, that staying in a League we have been in since the 50's is looked upon as success.

Paul Andrews
104 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:51:57
Jamie,
It's still a possibility we could finish 9th.Its not realistic though.
Sam Hoare
105 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:48:57
Disappointing day and a tired, lacklustre performance from most of the team.

Nothing really new to add that hasn't been said before.

I wonder how many of the Moyes critics would be prepared to bet their entire worldly posessions on the next manager obtaining more points in his first few seasons than Moyes has in the last few? Not many I guess.

Personally its boredom more than anything that has me curious to see what a new manager might do and who he (or she?) might be. Of course curiosity can be dangerous as any of the cat's relatives will tell you but then equally fortune favours the brave so the moral is don't listen to cliches.

Anyway right now I'm bout 50/50 as to whether I want Moyes to leave but either way I think people on here calling him names or requiring that he resigns today (!) are either very young, very upset right now, very ignorant or a mixture of all three.

Shaun Gray
106 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:13:35
Down without a whimper. Only to be expected....

John Ford, Norman Merrill... Wake up!!!

Nick Entwistle
107 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:55:04
So if Moyes isn't delivering Kevin, does that mean you expectations which you say are 'not much' would be champions league?
Kevin Tully
108 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:00:11
Not at all Nick, a League Cup would suffice, along with our current League position, but the past capitulations, especially against our neighbours in that Cup semi, leave a large blot on his record I'm afraid.

Although I realise the season we were nearly relegated, and our record losses under Moyes, are not to be discussed when we assess his tenure.

Patrick Murphy
109 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:57:02
It doesn't matter who the next manager is, people are commenting on the here and now, what we witnessed today was unacceptable and even more so for those poor souls who are traveling back from Sunderland. If it was an isolated game then fair enough, but it wasn't and it is what in the main we have come to expect. we won 2 away PL games out of the first 3 and have won 2 away games in the subsequent 14 games. Villa, Swansea, West Ham and Newcastle, I must be asking far too much from the team as I would have expected a better return than that.
Danny Kewley
110 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:34:42
Some of our football today was utterly breath-taking, I could hardly breath watching that shit. I was watching the game on my computer and felt like i'd been fucking robbed! I feel for all the traveling fans cause they were!
Kunal Desai
111 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:00:43
No Mark. At the start of the season I predicted we'd finish somewhere between 6-8th. That's where we are likely to finish? and yes I like to be the person to say 'I told you so' :)
Kevin Tully
112 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:04:20
The 6-1 home defeat on the opening day of the season to Arsenal still sends me into a cold sweat BTW!
Nick Entwistle
113 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:04:40
Kevin, The cup no other Everton manager has won either? 4 in 21 cups by the way, the teams with no money have won.

And we weren't nearly relegated, we were mathematically safe with 6 games to go... that's a lot of points... and the team just gave up.

Lets not mention record number of PL wins either, or points or or or...

Paul Ferry
114 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:54:28
Don't like all this we were still in it at 2-59 stuff. Knew that was gonna come once the we can still get into the top-4 stuff was shown to be what it was all the time, a pipe-dream.

So, don't worry anyone because at 2-59 today it was still mathematically possible that we could finish top-4 and probably still mathematically possible to end up 10th or 11th.

We are in our comfy Doddy 6th/8th zone and peeps will pop up on here with what they think of as heavy splashes of realism along the lines of what else can you expect given our thinning resources and zilch sponds. This is an argument for change for me not the status quo. New owners? Ideally, but more chance of a new gaffer, I think. Boys Pen Dickie Dahling biggest blue alive Billy is one greedy son-of-a-bitch. Apart from getting shares at knock down prices in anticipation of bumper windfalls he's not once dipped into his pocket. The likes of Kevin Hudson, Ken Buckley, and Harold Matthews and all other Old Lady regulars have individually put more money into this club over the last decade or so.

I love Everton but sponds more luvvy Billy will stay, Moyes will walk, and the only source of change is a new gaffer. Dear Lord I hope Champers Bill gets it right. Change in the hot seat is right and now inevitable, but I still fear for the future.

Richard Dodd
115 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:43:40
Leighton Baines`unfortunate mistake cost us the game today but nobody mentions it because it`s more convenient to blame Moyes as though he told him to do it. There are so many amateur tacticians on here-although they never agree on anything- that my head spins to see how simple it all could be to make Top 4.
This happens after every occasion we lose-and sometimes when we merely draw.Why,oh why doesn`t Davey read these columns to learn how easy his job really is?
Mick Fleming
116 Posted 20/04/2013 at 18:45:29
Someone made a good point earlier regarding finance and resources v places. However a lack of money doesn't excuse playing shite negative football with out of form poorly motivated players and negative tactics. Lets kick this money excuse in the head eh people because if Moyes had spent 100 million in January he would still make the same mistakes.

Regardless of the money excuse, I actually believe that we have a team capable of finishing in the top 4 and winning trophies but not the manager who can help us achieve it. Most of the games that we have either lost or drawn during his tenure have been down to schoolboy errors, tactical ineptness, poor substitutions etc not due to the fact that the other team have spent more than us. If Moyes had a tactical brain and grew a pair then we would have won more games, we would be in the top 4 right now, regardless of expenditure. WOW imagine that, then he'd be a great manager.

Kevin Tully
117 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:09:11
As I said Nick, some highs, some lows = par finish.

I suppose it all depends on your expectations.

Peter Thistle
118 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:07:09
What a letdown. Nothing to play for now except some pride maybe.
Ian Glassey
119 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:16:39
Well I think thats that time for change, but who do we bring in. Looking who is out there I don't know, Hughes,The Wolly with The Brolly, Curbishley and Oneill I think not. Maybe go abroard or Martinez I just don't know...
Paul Ferry
120 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:17:50
Richard Dodd to what fucking lengths or depths will you go to defend the gaffer who (1) picks the team (2) sets them up (3) selects tactics (4) reacts as the game unfolds from the sidelines (5) has 15 minutes in-between halves to talk to the players (6) has time in the 2nd half to see how things are shaping up (7) makes good subs.

But, let's put the blame on the players shall we because they 1) pick the team (2) set them up (3) select tactics (4) react as the game unfolds from the sidelines (5) have 15 minutes in-between halves to talk to the players (6) have time in the 2nd half to see how things are shaping up (7) make good subs.

The buck must always stop with the gaffer when all is said and done. He's if you like, the CEO, and living in Doddy Towers in Freshfield, I suspect you scream for the head of the CEO of a company in which you have shares that is going pear shaped.

Richard Dodd
121 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:24:01
On the contrary,Peter.Let`s aim to beat the RS and secure sixth place.
Kings of Merseyside and all that! Peace at work.
Jay Harris
122 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:07:19
I feel the diappointment, in fact it feels like the inquest after the Wigan game, but we cant blame Moyes for one game and the players being toothless today.

We had plenty of posession but with the exception of Coleman and especially Felliani nobody showed up. Baines and Pienaar have been poor for weeks and if I didnt know better I would think Bainesy's mind is already on his next club. Johnny Heitiga isn't fit for the championship let alone the Prem.

Moyes choice of subs was very limited but even with quality subs you cant replace 8 players..

Brian Williams
123 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:30:23
Paul, #257.

Is it just possible that the gaffer did, said, tried, everything right..........but the players just didn't perform?

How can Moyes be blamed for Baines giving the ball away, Anichebe fluffing a shot, Jelavic not scoring, the ref being blind.............

Too easy to blame David Moyes for everything....................

Mick Fleming
124 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:27:37
Richard, at what point do you stand up and say enough is enough? It's like:

"Oh well, we are still in the cup... oh shit!"
"Oh well, we are still pushing for Europe... oh shit!!"
"Oh well, we can still finish above the Shite... [watch this space... but, based on our manager's ineptitude...] oh shit!!!".

Come on, for god's sake, it's as if some Evertonians change expectations every week and fall back on the well used, "Oh well, we tried but we don't really have the money to compete, unlucky Davie boy."

Richard Dodd
125 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:30:46
Rubbish, Paul. It's players who lose matches by:

1/ Giving the ball to the opposition;
2/ Failing to score goals although paid fortunes to do just that;
3/ Not carrying out their manager's instructions;
4/ Looking as though they can`t be arsed on occasions;
5/ Being useless at corners and free kicks; and
6/ Just being off-form and failing to live up to our expectations of them.

Paul Holden
126 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:37:17
You would think, with a Champions League place up for grabs, that we would go for it, i.e. two strikers up front against Arse and Mackems, but no, went for the draw on both occasions - truly shocking poor tactics! Didn't matter if we lost both games, so why did we play so negatively?
Patrick Murphy
127 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:37:40
Don't be giving our wonderful board to make changes any more excuses Mick, or we could be running out to that Fleetwood Mac classic track "Oh Well' instead of Z Cars a nice fit to go with our possible new badge.
Paul Ferry
128 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:36:11
Er Brian, fair dues mate, but he didn't. And, needless to say, I agree with you about individual errors that cannot be legislated for. Doddy has a habit of whitewashing Moyes and for me a variety of factors comes into play and top of the list is what the gaffer does, and that's why he gets paid so much.

Today Brian - wrong selection, wrong tactics, wrong formation, not much evidence of creative responses to how the game unfolded, wasn't there for the 1/2 time talk, not much evidence of creative responses in the 2nd half, Ross ought to have come on earlier.

Just my view mate.

Mick Fleming
129 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:40:40
Patrick, hopefully they can play "you can go your own way" to dithering Dave!!
Patrick Murphy
130 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:44:03
Mick :)
BK singing Little Lies would also be appropriate.
Mark Frere
131 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:00:14
I'm glad we aren't probably in the Europa league next season. A team needs a big squad for that competition and it is very hard to win, also the financial rewards aren't that great either. I would like us to put our heart and soul into winning the league cup, because lets face it, the big money teams aren't that interested and I think everyone would be just happy with us winning a trophy.

I think the major factor in us not doing better this season , is the boards failure to back Moyes- especially in January when the squad needed freshening up. Also a lot of the players have under performed. Pienaar has turned out to be a bad singing, he has been very inconsistent and isn't getting any younger. Likewise, Osman's form has been very hit and miss, when these 2 were playing well early on in the season, Everton were playing some very attractive football and creating lots of chances.

Jelavic has been the biggest dissapointment , we all thought we'd found a 20 goal a season striker, but he turned out to be a half season wonder.

This summer is going to be very important to us, we need to sign a couple of quality strikers and some more creative players, with or without Moyes and I still hope he stays, we need to get rid of the deadwood and buy some quality. I'm not holding my breath though, especially with the fuckwitts running our club

Mick Fleming
132 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:46:38
Paul Ferry, here here and Patrick Murphy ha ha!!
Nick Entwistle
133 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:44:11
If Moyes is so shit, and the board as we know are shit, what magical force had us competing for CL football up until 4 games to go?

Steve Round?

Paul Ferry
134 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:41:55
This is like nature/nurture Doddy. Do you think honestly that the gaffer got it right today and if you think he got something wrong what was it in singular and plural.

Your list of individual errors and attitudes is very important but the gaffer is paid wads of cash to suss it out and sort it out Richard. There were some odd choices today, but I am genuinely interested to hear if you felt that the gaffer might have made some bad calls today

Richard Dodd
135 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:43:55
Yes, Mick, there are so many managers who have done better than Davey over the years that Kenwright will be spoiled for choice. No doubt SAF, Wenger and Mourinho will be beating a path to his door!
Darren Alexander
136 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:39:29
Wow, how pish was that? I was really glad we got something on our recent visits to north London, but if we'd lost both of those and won today we'd be better off in terms of points.

Besides losing to Chelsea and Man Utd (no real shame in either of those), the only other teams to beat us in the league are shite teams: Reading, Norwich, Sunderland (all relegation candidates) and the less shite, but still shite, West Brom. Not to mention being knocked out of one cup by yet another relegation candidate and the other by a mediocre Championship side.

Until we can systematically kill off teams like this on a regular basis – as we did against QPR last week – we'll always struggle to get a cup/European spot of any kind.

Barry Stevens
137 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:15:59
Will all the pro-Moyes brigade still be happy when we lose at Anfield in a couple of weeks? Will they still praise the Mike Bassett of the Premier League when we finish below the Shite in the league. Of course they will.

Let's see how well he does at whatever club he ends up at. I give it two seasons at most before he's sacked... with his false reputation as a great manager in tatters.

Richard Dodd
138 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:49:05
Yes, Paul, I would have gone with the team that played Arsenal with Heitinga in for Jags. But WTF do I know?
Mick Fleming
139 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:48:23
Nick, David Moyes but answer this, why fail with 4 games to go when you have proven we have the squad to compete for top 4 (please don't say money).
Nick Entwistle
140 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:53:48
Because we lost at Sunderland?
Mick Fleming
141 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:55:05
And who would you hold responsible for that loss Nick?
Paul Ferry
142 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:53:19
Richard you know a lot, you go week-in and week-out, respect, I can't any more... but team selection was 1/7 of my points — how do you rate Dave Moyes on the other six today?
Nick Entwistle
143 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:54:57
Also, there are 6 squads capable of claiming the 4 CL positions and obviously 6 into 4 doesn't go.

Then there's a CL quality team in ours, but we have no squad. And you complain we fall short with four games to go? It sucks, but I won't complain on the season.

Nick Entwistle
144 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:54:57
Also, there are 6 squads capable of claiming the 4 CL positions and obviously 6 into 4 doesn't go.

Then there's a CL quality team in ours, but we have no squad. And you complain we fall short with four games to go? It sucks, but I won't complain on the season.

Tony J Williams
145 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:00:52
MIck I would blame Moyes AND the players......seems though that some here just want to blame Moyes only.
Richard Dodd
146 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:59:55
Can`t answer that,Paul,until I`ve seen the game on Sky Football First later this evening.Then I`ll try and do so honestly....but I ain`t the manager just a faithful supporter!
Mick Fleming
147 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:57:11
Nick I really don't care about other squads to be honest. I made a point earlier that we do have a team capable of finishing in he top 4. If we didn't then good on us for finishing in the top 8 or so. Our current position, and at times this season, performances certainly justify the top 4 shout. Moyes even said its his best team etc.

So we know we can do it so why do we fall short? That's the bit when I have to conclude, based on what I see before my very eyes, that it is down to our manager. He picks the team, tactics, formations, motivates players etc etc etc and more often than not this year has been primarily culpable for falling short again.

Dean Barton
148 Posted 20/04/2013 at 19:37:47
A lot of players obviously were not fit today, quite a few players are carrying knocks and our lack of rotation and squad depth is most definitely the reason for any downfall this season.

I believe that Moyes went for it this season knowing it may be his last. He tried to plough all of the available resources into a best 11 and a few lads he could trust to do a job. It was a gamble and, as the season has gone on, our performances have dipped. He counted on Jelavic to bang them in but we all know what happened there!

Fellaini is being talked about as a £20M+ player, as far as I'm concerned, he has had 5 or 6 really good games but generally has been distinctly average. I can't believe a top 4 club would come in for him. I wouldn't mind if they did though, we could get 2 or 3 good players with that money. Pienaar has let him down badly since the turn of the year, one of our most creative players has just not turned up.

On the flip side, you could say he should have dropped them, but the players below them are just not good enough, or shall we say he has decided they are not good enough. He had to keep going with that best 11 hoping they would come good but they haven't at vital times.

The buck has to stop with the manager, though. He signed these players thinking they were good enough, or consistent enough. If that turns out to be wrong then he has to take the blame.

I do hope though that he doesn't leave, because the thought of what might come next scares me. I'm realistic, I don't expect us to finish top 5, where we finish is about as good as it gets without having stupid money. I know that Moyes will get us there every year, but I'm not confident that anyone else will!!!

Paul Ferry
149 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:07:17
fair dos Richard - enjoy this, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gt29Aa8HSJ4
Mick Fleming
150 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:06:25
Tony I do agree with you but primarily Moyes. Some also just blame the players and not Moyes, it's a funny old world!!
Kunal Desai
152 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:13:53
Falling short of getting a CL place, must feel like winning a trophy for some the way in which it's spouted around on here. Who actually cares if we were "competing" with 4 games to go, the record books won't show we finished in the top four. That's like saying we got to Wembley and nearly won the FA cup in 2009, well we didn't. Chelsea are in the record books, they won the cup. No one remembers runners up or losers!
Mark Frere
153 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:07:42
Barry Stevens 277
I don't give a fuck! how we do at Anfield, our season is over now and Everton is the only club I worry about. What i'm more bothered about is what happens in the summer in terms of taking Everton forward
Mick Fleming
154 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:19:21
Mark don't know whether you have misread Barry's post there mate. But surely you give a shit about he debt result. I live in the city and I certainly give a shit about the result regardless of anything else.
Mick Fleming
155 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:22:36
Derby result that is Mark!
David Greenwood
156 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:24:17
Paul,
Don't let Doddy go until he answers the other six!!!
Kunal Desai
157 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:21:39
Mark - Taking Everton forward under the current custodians won't happen. Billy Bullshitter will come out with his usual tripe about scrapping and searching for every penny under his bedsheet, to help the managers rebuilding plans. We know all too long how it will go in the summer. It is predictable every year.
David Greenwood
158 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:25:40
Doddy, your point six, just being off form.

Peanuts, how long has he been off form, why does DM keep picking him? Why not play Oviedo?

SP knows, he will always play, regardless of form, his place is under no pressure at all. How is that good management by DM?

Nick Entwistle
159 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:25:06
Kunal, but missing out neither is a reason to get shot of the manager.

Mick, we might have a top 4 quality team, but our competitors have top 4 squads. You think they have that many not out of necessity?

Mick Fleming
160 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:31:15
Nick I agree about the squad strength issue but surely if Moyes has built a top 4 quality side, they shouldn't be making bottom 4 errors (tactics, selections, formations - manager. Play - players). Why does he bottle it when it really matters? Why has he never won at the top 4 grounds or Anfield? Why does he persist with out of form players when he has other options? Why does he bring on Naismith (sorry Steven) when he has other options available?
Kunal Desai
161 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:30:57
I never said get shot of the manager, however sometimes change in any business can be seen as a good thing, just like continuity. We won't know until Moyes does go, it could swing the other way and we could go back to the dark days or we could even continue to 'punch above our weight' with a new manager and actually win a trophy or two. Who knows? afterall Moyes was a big risk all those 11 years ago.
Mark Frere
162 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:30:22
Mick Fleming 301
Its nice to have the bragging rights, but it isn't anything significant to me. I get the impression some people would just be satisfied beating the RS home and away in a season. Winning cups or getting in the top 4 is what I see as success
David Greenwood
163 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:42:41
Mark, neither of them is going to happen this season, so at least lets be happy keeping the RS in their rightful place!
Mick Fleming
164 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:43:33
Mark I agree with you regarding ambition and success but don't discard the need to beat the horrible shower of shite across the park as you mentioned earlier.
Barry Stevens
165 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:42:46
Mark Frere. I want leagues and cups. What im getting at is some people wont hear a bad word against Moyes no matter what. And to be honest, beating and finishing above them is all we've got left this season
Mark Frere
166 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:42:21
Kanul 304
I agree with you for once, but i'm just hoping Moyes stays and gets a decent amount of money from selling Felliani and a bit extra from the sky deal. You could well be right though, it could be another very frustrating summer
Paul Ferry
167 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:50:27
will do Dave - 303
Andy Meighan
168 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:39:21
Some knee jerk reactions on here tonight. I mean, come on, did anyone honestly think we were going to get 4th? It was never going to happen.

But I think this defeat, and to a lesser extent, the season as a whole, has proved how we are desperately crying out for a striker — a striker who will get you something out of nothing — and that's something we are badly lacking.

Okay, Anichebe has had a decent season but he is just isn't the answer. Just when we thought we might have cracked it with him, he's reverted to type. As for Jelavic... forget it. Yes, you may argue the service is poor, and at times it is, but these two just don't cut it.

The January transfer window has come back to bite us severely on the arse big time. Because that 4th place was up for grabs, as someone also rightly pointed out earlier, the away form since the turn of the year has been shocking.

And to me, that's down to Moyes and his ultra cautious tactics. If he was to go who we d get is anyone's guess no one could take us higher without the backing but then again someone might have us playing with a bit more verve a bit more swagger these things seem to be alien to Moyes.

I had a feeling it'd be a close game today... but for Moyes to bring Osman back in place of Barkley stunk, it really did. And quite simply summed the man up.

Another baffling one for me is to persevere with the very ineffective Pienaar – who I'm a big fan of, by the way. But he has had an awful season and should've been binned a while back. But then, as I've pointed out on many occasions on ToffeeWeb, Moyes is far far too loyal to underachieving players. It's criminal.

I'm disappointed tonight but not really surprised. I got my fixed odds coupon up today as well and that can't even soften the blow.

Andrew Presly
170 Posted 21/04/2013 at 04:53:53
It was just saddening to see how bad Pienaar was today.

Osman was doing his ball boy on the pitch routine, Felli seemed to be playing at half pace / no urgency and Mirallas was isolated. Jelavic and his pathetic diving was a disgrace. As someone said, he's become our Torres.

Some decent service to feet up to Vic could've got us some joy as they dropped really deep (that shoot on the turn move he does) but quality passing in the final third was non-existent and he fed on scraps.

Heitinga was / is a joke and Gibbo looks crocked.

Bad pass from Baines but you'd hope the keeper would bale him out, not throw it in like he did. Pathetic from Howard who's had the worst season since he joined, in my book.

Coleman and maybe Distin the only positives.

Realistically the season ended against Wigan. You stabilised us Moyes, go with thanks and what the hell, a win at Anfield?!

Mark Frere
172 Posted 20/04/2013 at 20:51:09
Barry Stevens 316

You're right, some people don't see any faults and he has plenty. Also some people don't see any good he's done in the last 11 years. Moyes has taken this club from the dark days of Walter Smith's reign and transformed us into a club that always competes at the top end of the league. We have been to a FA cup semi-final, FA cup final and a league cup semi final, that's not bad to say the budget of spending he's had.

Paul Ferry
174 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:13:12
it might not heal today but it helps http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vVfaOpMh38
Mick Fleming
175 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:16:06
Mark Frere, having read your previous posts I must admit I am scratching my head at your last one. Read them again and hopefully you will get me?
David Greenwood
176 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:20:31
Paul, has Doddy answered?

Doddy, what does Peanuts have to do before he gets dropped? What pressure is he under to play better?

Paul Ferry
177 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:27:56
I'm on it Dave, nope, he's waiting to see highlights but that wont help as I can't think of one
Paul Ferry
178 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:29:24
I agree with you more generally Dave, and Doddy is nowhere near being the worst offender here, but there is a tendency among Moyesites to duck follow-up more detailed questions
Alan Clarke
179 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:33:40
For those that worry about life after Moyes, go and read the kids story Chicken Licken.

The chickens, the ducks and the geese can all flap and panic that the sky is falling in and the world is going to end but the rest of us clever foxes realise Moyes is just a stupid fucking acorn.

David Greenwood
180 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:35:20
Cheers Paul.

Spot on about Doddy.

David Hallwood
181 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:04:43
Are we bottlers? it can't be a coincidence the amount of times we haven't turned up in must win games. Leeds & Wigan in the cups (and the RS last season BTW) and now losing a must win game to relegation candidates.

For what it's worth the silly points dropped against Newcastle Fulham, Norwich when we were flying has cost us dear.

Barry Stevens
182 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:18:29
Mark 331. What pisses me off is after 11 years his teams style of play is still all huff and puff. I agree he pulled us out of the slums of Wally Walter but that was a long time ago.

For the success of what you mentioned there's also cup defeats to Shrewsbury, Brentford, Leeds, Oldham, Tranmere. How about the year Reading put us out when the cup was there to win with weak teams left in the last 8. What about Wigan this year. Add to that no away win vs the Sky 4 in his time and the drubbing at Anfield last season.

Paul Andrews
183 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:53:41
The goals for column for his 11 years give a clue to how he sets his teams up.
I believe I am right in saying we have only scored 50 or more goals in 3 of the
11 seasons.One season we scred 34 goals in 38 games.
Tony J Williams
184 Posted 20/04/2013 at 21:57:46
Hang on Andy 322, you have just told us how shit our forwards are and then in the next paragraph put the blame on Moyes's tactics..... how does that work?
Gary Reeves
185 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:10:44
Leon Osman, anyone? . . I mean WTF! . . I've been banging on about this fella for seasons now, and I just despair. Now and again I get in the Main Stand where "Ossie is a good team player" with the Wools from The Wirral. Well I'm from County Road, and he just don't cut it. I'm fed up with telling people how shit he is.
Gary Reeves
186 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:10:44
Leon Osman,anyone? . . I mean WTF! . . I've been banging on about this fella for seasons now,and I just despair. Now and again I get in the Main Stand where "Ossie is a good team player" with the Wools from The Wirral. . Well I'm from County Rd.,and he just don't cut it. I'm fed up with telling people how shit he is.
Gary Reeves
187 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:10:44
Leon Osman,anyone? . . I mean WTF! . . I've been banging on about this fella for seasons now,and I just despair. Now and again I get in the Main Stand where "Ossie is a good team player" with the Wools from The Wirral. . Well I'm from County Rd.,and he just don't cut it. I'm fed up with telling people how shit he is.
Phil Sammon
188 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:24:31
I assume this is your first venture onto the Internet, Gary.

He is not a shit player, he just needs managing better.

At times he has been great this year. However, for the last god knows how long, him and Pienaar have been shite and needed dropping.

Barkley, Kennedy, McAleny, Oviedo, Junior...Moyes just will not use the resources at his disposal.

Gary Reeves
189 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:37:14
No Phil, this isn't my first venture into the internet. Can't explain the triple entry, but if you want an argument – you got one.

Osman IS a shit player. He's small in stature, lacking in pace, weak in possession, not particularly clever, and commands no definitive position. The fact that Moyes has played him left-mid and behind the striker, at times, says a lot about Moyes – because he's shit in both.

The shape at The Emirates was better at a stroke. You heard of OPTA, Phil? He's caught in possession more than any other Premier League player, and was even (typically) flat footed for Baines's pass today.

Tony Dove
190 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:35:24
We have been through the detail a million times.It is time for a change but unless Moyes finds a better paid job [highly improbable] it is not going to happen.Options ? halve his pay for any new contract offer and get Poyet in.
Colin Glassar
191 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:50:03
I hope our next manager brings a massive broom with him.
Tony Dove
192 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:54:06
Colin. Basil Brush?
Colin Glassar
193 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:03:09
Tony, right now Basil would do for me. He's probably got more tactical nous than Moyes anyways.
Paul David
194 Posted 20/04/2013 at 22:50:33
Piss poor game. Where was the fight? Where was the football? Fucking dire.

A bad mistake by Baines, it's not that he's playing poorly but he is a shadow of his former self. I'd love to know the reason for his drop in form cos this is the first time its happened since he's been at the club.

Heitinga is a liability, how many times does he get caught out then body check the player?

Leon Osman or should I say Leon 'Anonymous'. Since he made his England debut he has disappeared, he needs fazing out the team.

Just how bad does Pienaar have to be before he gets dropped? He was terrible today and has been for a long time.

Anichebe never has been and never will be good enough for this level ( or the Championship). Useless, lazy fucking lump.

Gary Reeves
195 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:05:34
Moyes was a "rugged Centre-Half" in his playing career. . He sees the world as a Centre-Half,his demeanour is as a Centre-Half,and he sets up his teams as a Centre-Half. He has NEVER had a feeling,or vision to affect games from an attacking perspective. . Top and bottom!
Brent Stephens
196 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:13:14
Gary, I aint defending DM in general but you say he was a centre-half so sets up the team as a centre-half. So any manager who is an ex-player will, by that logic, set the team up as per the position they played, with all the inherent limitations in that. In other words, the point doesn't really get us anywhere, does it? Or am I missing something?
Paul Andrews
197 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:18:33
Colin 390,
Basil Fawlty would run him close.
Although he would have the tactical nous of Manuel.
He's from Barcelona.
Gary Reeves
198 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:19:59
My point is as much about his personality, and how he sees things than him being a centre-half, during his playing career. It's off on a tangent, I know, but youngsters on the continent are encouraged to play in different positions – it's a fundamental in learning how to affect, and change games. You can't do that if you've only ever played in a back four... It's always been an issue for me, with Moyes.
Colin Glassar
199 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:38:51
But would BK be prepared to pay Basil a 10th of what Moyes earns? I'm prepared to start a " Basil Brush for Everton " campaign. Call BK's bluff like.
Patrick Murphy
200 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:55:11
It would be pointless hiring Basil Brush he'd only end up being Billy Blag's puppet .
Paul David
201 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:58:24
Boom boom
Barry Rathbone
202 Posted 20/04/2013 at 23:57:55
Brent I think the characteristics of Moyes 11 years are dour functionality ie typical defender.

The correlation with Moyes playing experience may or may not be true but I see Garys thinking.

Joe McParland
203 Posted 21/04/2013 at 00:29:45
Paul Ferry #345, what are your answers to the seven questions that you previously posted? Please come up with a little more than Ross should have come on earlier!!!
Richard Dodd
204 Posted 21/04/2013 at 00:21:14
Paul Ferry: Having seen the highlights, it was a fairly crap performance with too many players going through the motions. Moyes says as much in his after match interview and must carry the can. But I repeat how can you legislate for errors like the one Baines made which cost us the game?

Clearly you wish to take the view that Moyes is clueless in all the areas you list and it will take more than a posting by me to dissuade you from that view. Like players, all managers have bad days and I think Davey would list today as one of his but we've seen a lot worse and I see no reason for writing him off on the back of a 0-1 loss away from home.

Just try to remember we were never going to win the Prem but have lost only SIX games all season. Whilst you and so many on here seem to think Everton have a God given right to win EVERY match, it ain`t ever gonna happen but they are still my team and will continue to brighten my life even if they make so many of you miserable. As I said earlier how easy Davey would find his job if only he read – and took – the advice on here!

Andy Crooks
205 Posted 21/04/2013 at 00:58:14
Richard, Everton don't make me miserable but they could make me a hell of a lot happier. We have no God Given right to win every match but surely the supporters have a God given right to expect them to try. Today was devoid of passion and inspiration. Osman ahead of Barkley was Moyes at his uninspiring worst. Heitinga ahead of Duffy epitomizes his truly inept mindset.
Eric Myles
206 Posted 21/04/2013 at 00:57:25
Gary #382, so now you're blaming Osman for Baines pass direct to a Sunderland player that was nowhere near Osman?

I guess that makes Neville not guilty for the pass at Wigan? and Distin absolved for the pass against the RS?

Paul #391, I think maybe Baines' loss of form has something to do with Pienaar's? They seldom seem to link up together now as our attacking play is centred on Mirallas in the centre rather than Baines/Pienaar on the left.

Pienaar seemed to have a back injury yesterday so maybe that's something to do with his poor form if he's been playing injured for a while.

Matthew Williams
207 Posted 21/04/2013 at 02:13:06
In ref of Eugene Ruane 204, that lad has nailed it for me. The Blues need a leader, a nasty, narky mean bastard, who will shake us up, refuse to give in... battle for the cause. The kind of bloke who thinks fuck Wigan at half time, we're EVERTON! And stirs us into the mother of all comebacks, like in '66. Time for Mr J Barton to come home, build a new, young team around him, it would be a fucking good start!
Robbie Shields
208 Posted 21/04/2013 at 02:28:25
Gary Reeves, I'm with you 100%, been saying it for so long now I've actually given up repeating myself, nothing has changed, same old same old, and will continue to be the same old same old whilst Moyes is here. Even if BK sold up and we got $200 million to spend, we'd still get the same old same old from Moyes, but with better players, still wouldn't win a thing though, he'd play his new favorites week in week out irrespective of form, square pegs round holes, baffling substitutions, destroying centre forwards, shitting himself when we go a goal up, bottling it in big matches, sticking to 4-5-1, the list is endless and been repeated endlessly for 11 god damn years.

Just wait for the excuses to roll out from the usual suspects when we drop our pants and take one from our neighbours in Moyes' time old fashion.

Nothing has changed in the last 8 years and never will whilst Moyes remains.

James Flynn
209 Posted 21/04/2013 at 03:11:50
Robbie, what will you do come start of next season? No more Moyes to blame for having shit owners.

Hate that Moyes, with Fella and Baines, appears to be leaving. On the other hand, the summer discussions in here will be fun.

Who do you want in next as manager, Robbie? Me, Soleskjaer the one. Who you?

Robbie Shields
210 Posted 21/04/2013 at 03:39:35
James, I'd be very happy with Soleskjaer, Rikjard, Laudrup and yes, Martinez. I don't want a Dave Jones or even a Mourinho, I found Chelsea's play as dull as dishwater when he was there, effective but dull.

I want some excitement, goals, attacking football, whoever can give me that I'd be very happy with. I'd also given them a few years to do it in, just like I did Moyes. I won't be shouting for them to get the boot after 6 months, well, unless they are complete muppets that is.....

Steve Brown
211 Posted 21/04/2013 at 04:05:32
Every team has a poor display in them, but the second half was completely unacceptable. The majority of the players simply capitulated - Pienaar, Baines, Miralles, Anichebe, OSMAN, Heitinga, Gibson. The only players who can look themselves in the mirror today are Fellaini and Coleman. And let's give Fellaini respect for that given the abuse he rightly got after the Wigan game. It just seems that they draw the megabucks and get absolved from all the blame....if they are up for it all the praise, if they don't feel like it blame the manager. Suppose that's the modern player for you.

Back to Moyes....I am a respecter but his time is up. He knows it and so do we. He has had 11 years in the job and not won a trophy. He has done a decent job when other managers would have left in disgust. But he is too conservative in his approach, his tactics sometimes leave me baffled, his substitutions infuriating and he over-relies on his ageing favourites when their legs have obviously gone.

There is an interesting opportunity for Moyes to prove all of that to be a load of bull - the Derby match! But I am not holding my breadth.

Tim Jones
212 Posted 21/04/2013 at 04:56:22
So finally its here the point where Everton can no longer realistically hope to play in Europe next season. So who has been correct those of us who have long seen Moyes for what he is a defensive, safety first, tactically inept, all track back, big game bottling loser or his sycophants who did not - and indeed judging by what I see from far too many TW posters still cannot - see this man for what he is.
Everton is Daft Daveys pinnacle he is a man who has been promoted way beyond his abilities and the only way for him now is downwards.
But if I am being truthful I am glad we will not be in Europe next season - why well because I love Everton so much I would be mortified at the embarrassing spectacle we would be if we stepped so far out of our comfort zone - which under Moyes of course is Premiership survival and big game cop outs.
I want a manger who can inspire and motivate the team a manger who can give me a team to be proud of a manger who can make a team give its all EVERY game not just for a few games a season and especially a Manager who does not turn out a team that regularly bottles it when it really counts . So even if we lose or draw we can at least say -well done lads you tried. Something that , under Moyes, can never be said more times in a season than you could count needing more that one hand .
That such a man is holding Everton to ransom over his contract disgusts me and makes me despair for the future of an Everton ownership that would allow such an insult by such a spectacularly unsuccessful Manager who in better days would have had his marching orders years ago.
You can bleat 'we have no money' all you like but even with money Daft Dour Davey would remain what he is a man who will always play his favourites no matter what, substituting uninjured forwards with defenders when we are a goal down always reacting with his substitutions to the other managers boldness never being brave and going for it himself and last but not least taking off anyone to bring on Naismith every game.
Tim Jones
213 Posted 21/04/2013 at 06:28:05
BTW my typo's of 'manger' instead of 'manager' should not be taken to imply that I think Moyes is the Messiah. I will leave that sad sycophancy to others.
Tim Jones
214 Posted 21/04/2013 at 06:43:06
Lets see how the Shite perform today , if they beat Chelsea then our hopes of finishing above them for a second season, the only "success" daft Davey can hope for, will be seriously compromised. It would give them tremendous motivation for the Derby as they would not only get 'bragging rights' but would also jump above us at the same time.
Eric Myles
216 Posted 21/04/2013 at 07:34:27
tIM #433 "That such a man is holding Everton to ransom over his contract disgusts me"

I've asked this question many times after posts such as you're but never yet recieved an answer.

If Moyes is holding out for more money what makes you think that Kenwright would not have already agreed to it and signed a contract by now?

I mean how much pay rise could he could he be holding out for? 1 mill? 2 mill? 4 mill? With an extra 20 mill coming next year from Sky and whatever we get from Fellaini and Baines it's chickenfeed to Kenwright to keep his heat shield in place.

Or maybe it's because Moyes is asking for something Kenwright can't guarantee? Money for players in the summer to push the team forward perhaps?

Tim Jones
217 Posted 21/04/2013 at 07:49:41
Eric Myles # 438 Moyes is not on record as having asked for a bigger salary he is however on record of saying there should be a 20% pay cut. He is also on record as saying he will see where Everton finish before deciding what to do - the disgusting arrogance of that is that he as manger is responsible for where Everton finish.
That is what we know and unless you are privy to what discussions have gone on behind the scenes all that you claim is mere wishful thinking and conjecture on your Moyes apologist part.
Sam Hoare
218 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:05:25
Tim/Peter "as manger is responsible for where Everton finish".

Apart from the dodgy spelling this is also very over simplistic. If the manager is the ONLY factor in where the club finishes then why are so many people calling for Martinez?

Ernie Baywood
219 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:09:25
Not much point laying blame for this defeat on any individual. So many were to blame. Moyes had a bad day. The vast majority of players had a bad day.

What I will say is that Leon Osman's effort was a disgrace. Others were shit, and Pienaar probably worst than most, but Osman swanned around that midfield offering nothing. He stood himself next to the opposition, he floated deep to pick up cheap touches. At no point did he break sweat to create any kind of drive out of the centre.

Fellaini lost my long term support against Wigan, but I felt sorry for him against Sunderland playing in the centre with a bloke who was quite clearly swinging the lead.

Eric Myles
220 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:18:31
Tim #441, Moyes is not on record as having asked for a higher salary but you and your ilk with the 'holding the Club to ransom' remarks assume that he is asking for a higher salary and constantly use it as a stick to beat him with.
Andrew Clare
221 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:34:58
Tim you are spot on with your comments.
There are never any surprises under this manager we are just so predictable. Can anyone tell me when we won a game with style or thrashed anyone under Moyes?
Robbie Shields
222 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:29:13
Sam #433, the point is that Moyes is 'Responsible' and therefore should be 'Accountable', I can't see anywhere that Tim says that the Manager is the ONLY factor that determines where we finish in the league. He is however the single most influential individual in determining where we finish, especially given the exceptional control Moyes is afforded at Everton by Kenwright.

It has been reported many times that Moyes is in complete control of all team affairs, he decides who stays and who goes, how long their contracts are, how much they are worth, who he buys (Budget dependent of course), where he playes them, what formations to use, what training sessions to employ, when to make substitutions and who to substitute.

If he isn't the single most responsible and therefore accountable person the who the hell is, and don't say BK, he is the one most responsible for our dire financial position but not what happens on the pitch.

Tim Jones
223 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:39:54
Sam Hoare # 443 The timid, defensive, safety first, big game bottling D Moyes Esq selects the team, selects the substitutes and their timing , decides on the "tactics' to be employed and when to change them (in Moyes case usually never or far too late), supervises the training, is responsible for the motivation and gives the before and half time team talk - but according to you is not 'responsible' it seems for anything 'cos he has no money. What a joke you Moyes apologists are.
BTW if you had bothered to read my follow up post there would have been no need for your snide dodgy spelling jibe.
Tim Jones
224 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:48:26
Eric Myles # 445 If you can point to one post where I have said Moyes is holding Everton to ransom for a higher salary you would be entitled to say what you say - but you can't. Indeed I don't know any member of the MOB who has accused Moyes of trying to raise his salary.
Sam Hoare
225 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:49:42
Robbie/Tim let me point out what I suspect you already know. Yes of course Moyes has a huge part in where we finish and how we play and yes he is probably the most responsible individual which is why he deserves huge credit for the way he has dragged us up the league in his tenure. But he is not the ONLY cause. The point that he is trying to make is that he (with some justification) feels that he cannot take us any higher without some commitment of financial resources. Also neither of you answered my Martinez point.

Tim, there was no follow up comment. When I look back there was previous comment but it appears you are repeating your mistake. No surprise there!!

Sam Hoare
226 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:56:30
Tim 456 Here is a quote from your post at 433. Short memory you have there! And you say other people are a joke!!

"That such a man is holding Everton to ransom over his contract disgusts me"

Tim Jones
227 Posted 21/04/2013 at 08:52:22
Andrew Clare # 452 Thank you for your kind words - but just wait the Moyes loving attack dogs have yet to post their illogical, emotional, fact devoid ad hominem ripostes. Most of course do not know what 'ad hominem' means which is why they employ such a logical fallacy in debates.
Robbie Shields
228 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:01:33
Sam, sorry, I'll answer the Martinez question for you. I personally would be happy with Martinez because I support his footballing philosophy and would like to see what he could do with the same limited (but greater than Wigan) resources he would have at Goodison. It might go all pear shaped, for many many reasons, but at the least the man has the right footballing outlook IMHO and I'd be genuinely excited to see his team play, something which very rarely happens with Moyes.

I believe Moyes was exactly what we needed 11 years ago, and huge credit must go to him quite rightly for what he did in the first 3 years. The last 8 have been too predictable and predicted by many on here. I believe someone like Martinez is needed to take us onwards and upwards, not Moyes, for all the reasons already outlined.

Tim Jones
229 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:09:08
Sam Hoare # 460 You are beyond belief he IS holding Everton to ransom over his contract by REFUSING to sign it until he sees where Everton finish. I made no mention at all about money or Moyes trying to extort a higher salary those are all YOUR fantasies.
Ian Smitham
230 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:10:54
Sorry to be a bit thick Tim, I do not know what you mean either, would love to debate your point but you are operating at a higher level than me.
Ian Smitham
231 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:16:46
Tim, just managed to read your contribution at #464. Just so as I can be clear. Can you state categorically what is he refusing to sign?
Tim Jones
232 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:14:18
Sam Hoare # 458 Here is my FOLLOW UP comment which you seem to be incapable of finding. Its on this blog immediately after the comment in which I made the typo which is a 'follow up' in anybodies definition except yours it seems.

"Tim Jones # 434 BTW my typo's of 'manger' instead of 'manager' should not be taken to imply that I think Moyes is the Messiah. I will leave that sad sycophancy to others. "

A polite apology would be acceptable.

Tony J Williams
233 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:21:34
Leave it be Ian, he has found his caps lock button again.........
Sam Hoare
234 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:17:09
Tim, do you have any idea what the term ransom means? If you are holding someone to 'ransom over your contract' it is because you want a better one. Jeez, did not think I was going to have to spend my Sunday morning teaching basic English!!
Sam Hoare
235 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:24:18
Robbie 463, fair enough. I would be intrigued to see what Martinez might do with our team and he does seem to have an attractive footballing philosophy. I'm not convinced that he would be able to outperform Moyes in the league but hopefully he might be able to do so in the cups (not too hard!) and also, for me personally, I would just like to see something a little different, though thats probably a terrible reason.
Tim Jones
237 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:22:59
Ian Smitham # 468 I know as much about Moyes proposed new contract as you or indeed anybody else on this blog does. But Moyes has not said he finds his proposed new contract unacceptable he has said he 'will wait until he sees where Everton finish' before he discusses it and THAT is nothing to do with his salary and everything to do with the supreme arrogance of a Manager who is responsible for where we finish. You Moyes lovers can't have it all ways praising him for finishing high but not condemning him when HIS tactics and team motivation, or rather lack of, mean that we get far to many soft draws lose so many games we should not, bottle it in big games and fail to live up to the potential the squad obviously has.
Tony J Williams
238 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:29:24
If it's Martinez in next, so be it, I would prefer Laudrup than a perennial relegation battler who can only seem to get his team up two or three months of the season.
Sam Hoare
239 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:29:12
Tim 469. Wrong again i'm afraid. The post I was quoting was 441 so clearly 434 was not a follow up as I stated previously.

A polite apology would be acceptable.

Tim Jones
240 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:31:38
Here just for sam Hoare and one or two others is the definition of an ad hominem attack.
"An ad hominem argument, also known as argumentum ad hominem (Latin, literally "argument to the man"), is 1) a logical fallacy that involves replying to an argument or assertion by addressing the person presenting the argument or assertion rather than the argument itself;"
Tony J Williams
241 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:32:03
Tim/Peter, the fact that he hasn't spoken to Bill about it at all, must mean there isn't a contract in place yet. So where is the holding at ransom there? If Bill doesn't fancy him at the end of the season, he can show him the door for absolutely nothing, they are both in a position of power really.
Tony J Williams
243 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:38:41
And just for you Tim/Peter is the definition of schizophrenia.......
Sam Hoare
244 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:38:14
Tim 481, I bet you do not see the irony of you posting this!!
Sam Hoare
245 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:40:32
Ha, very good Tony.
Mike Gwyer
246 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:22:16

Matthew Williams #423 - Spot on, the blues need a nasty fucker out there. Bringing Barton home could be the answer - but it would cause outrage amongst a few.

Yesterday was fucking crap, 4 thousand blues lording David Moyes then it becomes obvious that he's playing an obviously unfit Osman - fucking why, because believe me Moyes knew we were pissed. Makes the Arsenal game almost pointless - why so much effort at the Emirates then fuckall showing at Sunderland.We definately need a leader on the pitch who can tell the likes of Pienaar and Anicheeeeeebbbe to fucking buck up.

For me though, having watched that crap then having to read some of the fucking tosh on here. Where do all these posters go when we are winning - do you just save all your abuse for the six games we lost? I mean, do you not have anything better to do than sit on the internet typing constant abuse about Moyes.

Mike Green
247 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:12:20
Moyes is like a bloke that met a girl called Everton (funny name for a girl but there we are ) at a party 11 years ago, a girl who was out of his league but in need of a shoulder to cry on.

David was in a relationship with someone else at the time, a nice girl but nothing more, they get chatting and Everton asks David if he would like to dance. David accepts and the following morning tells his girlfriend, Preston (another funny name for a girl) that despite loving her and thinking they had potential that he'd found someone else.

Over the next few years David proved to be most of the things Everton hoped and wished he would be - he was faithful, honest, very hard working and once even took her to Spain! (albeit the trip was cut short after a dodgy bald Italian waiter spiked their drinks one night).

In recent years though things have started to go stale. They go to the same pubs, hang out with the same friends, go through the motions and have started lying awake at night thinking 'is this it.....?'

They love each other but if their relationship has to go to the next level to survive. Everton's sure that David has been on the verge of proposal more than once, but each time she thinks he's going to pop the question he just seems to bottle it. Maybe he can't afford a ring, as the couple are saddled with debts from Evertons past which make grand gestures difficult. 'What's that got to do with it?' say Evertons mates, and besides surely eiher Evertons Dad or one of her wealthy uncles could give him a lend, tight bastards....

Besides, for all his good points David has missed point with Everton. Above everything she wants romance, she wants him to take her to Paris, Milan and Barcelona, she wants to see some passion, she wants to LIVE!

David has been great but the thing that attracted her to him in the first place (he was safe, reliable etc) are the things that are now getting her down. Why can't he do both, they should know each other and trust each other enough to make their life a great adventure... but David just doesn't seem to know how to take it to the next level... is he really the man for her after all.....?

Tim Jones
248 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:33:29
Sam Hoare # 472 Whats in the contract Sam do you know 'cos I don't and as Moyes has said he won't even DISCUSS it until he sees where Everton finish. So he is holding Everton to RANSOM by not allowing the team to pursue other Managers until he is ready to talk. Being held to RANSOM does not ALWAYS mean for more money. Does a better contract ALWAYS mean more money of course not it could be shorter hours, longer holidays a better company car, a bigger office many things . Why do I have to waste my time teaching English comprehension.
BTW post #'s 433 and 434 PRECEDE post 441 so your pedantic nit picking is pathetic. I had already apologised for my typos before YOU decided to make snide comments on them and that is a FACT. The fact that I made another subsequent identical typo should be no surprise and is covered by the first apology.
Mike Green
249 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:50:55
Plus they badly need to move house or get an extension, as the place theyre ins getting more and more run down. House prices are massive though, and Evertons Dad, despite finding a couple of options, just doesn't seem to be able to help out. Sigh....
Sam Hoare
250 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:46:50
Tim, do you really expect me to believe that you think Moyes is holding them to ransom because he wants a bigger office?!

As for the other nonsense, you tried to nit pick yourself and demanded an apology, in fact you got it wrong and i'd have a bit more respect for you if you could man up and admit that.

I am however delighted to see the return of abundant caps lock in your posts. Let your true colours shine Peter!!

Tim Jones
251 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:45:54
Andrew Clare # 452 And here they come Andrew, the Moyes apologists, just as I predicted - you can read them like a book.
Tim Jones
252 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:54:17
Sam Hoare # 496 I believe that there are far more reasons to call it RANSOM than the simplistic call for more money. In fact he will have no contract at all if he lets it expire so lets hope that BK has the balls to say 'thank you for your service over the years Davey good bye and good luck for the future'.
Tony Cheek
253 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:20:53
Not a Moyes fan – never have been, never will be – and I will not lose sleep if he jacks it in. In fact, I am looking forward to another face to look at, another voice to hear next season. I can't bear seeing the man interviewed on the OS. I know what he will say anyway.

Yesterday, I was fuming with his substitutions and leadership; I can't really comment on his motivation of the players as I wasn't sitting in the dressing room... were you!?! We were trying to get a CL place, with the worst two strikers in the PL, FFS!

Anichebe has been on a roll recently, but a match winner he will never be. His one big trick is backing in to defenders and trying to turn; that's it. Otherwise, he is a big strong lad with the touch of a rhino and can't head a ball to save his life.

Jelavic... well, god knows what has happened to him. I think he needs to go this summer.

But what really pissed me off yesterday was the way the players went about certain situations. We have 5 players waiting in front of the keeper waiting for a cross, Baines looks up and sees Johnny running in at the back of the box. What does the twat do? Runs in to where all the other players are! Where does the cross come? THE FAR POST!

Next up, that free kick inside the box! Now, Sunderland are going to put all their players between the ball and the goal to make it really difficult for Baines to score. What do we do? We put EVEN MORE PLAYERS there making it even more difficult for Bainesy to score.... Clever, huh? An indirect free kick, all you have to do is fucking whack it FFS, it's bound to hit someone on its way in... or what? No we have to have not one but two touches before Baines hits it, incredible? What about rolling it backwards a yard to the oncoming Baines, thus the ball is not pounced upon by defenders running out. What do we do at Finch Farm FFS?!

Andy Meighan
254 Posted 21/04/2013 at 09:51:17
Well, Tony (#362), if you'd have bothered to read my post properly, not once did I say the forwards are shit. What I said was we're basically screaming out for a striker who will get you something out of nothing. I actually praised Anichebe for his efforts this season but readily admitted he's never going to be a prolific striker.

Jelavic... Well, as I've pointed out on here on many occasions, he will never get back to being the player he was last season.

And by Moyes's tactics, what I meant was there was a great chance to put real pressure on Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea so why not go for it with 2 up top against Arsenal and Sunderland? But no, he won't. That's what I meant by ultra cautious tactics. I hope that answers your question.

Mike Green
255 Posted 21/04/2013 at 10:03:52
Which doesn't mean she wants to be like her little sister either. Nasty piece of work, gold digger, changes blokes at the drop of a hat if she doesn't get what she wants.... past her best now though... struggling to pull....
Robbie Shields
256 Posted 21/04/2013 at 10:05:43
Tony, as I've said before, I've been fortunate to see them train twice, it was very underwhelming TBH, also showed up this rediculous thing that some fans say which is 'well Moyes sees them in training all week and knows who is best' bollox. I saw Coleman hit 8 out of 10 crosses on the run perfect, Neville 2 out of 10, then Beckford looks really lively, scores lots of goals in training, really eager and exciting, good touch, positive and fast, guess what, hardly either of them feature in Moyes' team for the next 12 months!!!
Paul Andrews
257 Posted 21/04/2013 at 11:04:16
Mike,
They should get divorced.

Do any of the Latin speaking folk above truly believe David will sign for the same wages ,or reduced wages?
Because you can 100% guarantee he will sign a new contract.

Mike Green
258 Posted 21/04/2013 at 11:26:49
Paul 516 - they're not married just yet, they could walk away fairly cleanly. In recent months David's even been hinting he might want to leave, Everton thinks he's just saying it though so she puts out more...... Oooooo the drama!
Brent Stephens
259 Posted 21/04/2013 at 11:26:42
Timpeter #497 "And here they come Andrew, the Moyes apologists, just as I predicted - you can read them like a book". No ad hominem there, then. It's a pity we couldn't read you like a book. You just soooooooo unPredictable. Except that, it seems your use of CAPS increases as your anger increases.
Max Murphy
260 Posted 21/04/2013 at 14:04:26
Can anyone tell me that, when players are transferred, they can negotiate, for themselves, a minimum number of appearances for their new club, barring injuries, within their contracts?

It appears to me that Jelevic and Naismith may have such a clause written into their contracts when we acquired them from Rangers. Maybe they have a minimum of 25 or 35 games? It's the only logical reason I can see why Moyes keeps selecting the pair for the team or bringing them on from the bench. Naismith should not be at our club. Jelavic should have banished to the reserves in February.

If this is not the reason, then the other logic explanation is that Moyes is extremely stupid, and puts player-favouritism (include; Osman, Neville, Heitinga, Anichebe, Hibbert) above common footballing-sense.

I totally agree with Tony(#500). The sooner Moyes goes the better. He has single-handedly destroyed our season. We had the easiest cup-run in living memory. CL was achievable with better selection and substitutions. He persisted with out-of-form players: Jelvaic and Heitinga cost us at least 10 points between them. Neville just chronic.

And not to play players like Vellios, Oviedo, Duffy, Thomas H. and Barkley (should have played much earlier) is a crime. In a season that promised so much, he dashed everybody's hopes. The season was over after the Wigan game, and I actually cannot bear to look at the man, or listen to that plaintiff, moaning drawl. GET OUT, MOYES!

Brent Stephens
261 Posted 21/04/2013 at 14:38:05
Max, I sympathise with the sentiment about who gets picked. But take out all of Jela, Naise, Osman, Nev, Heit, Anich, Hibb and what do you have in terms of a starting XI? (And surely you're not going to include Peanuts in your current XI?).
Dean Barton
262 Posted 21/04/2013 at 15:12:33
Good point made on Sky website...... when the keeper catches the back pass isn't it stopping a goalscoring opportunity?
Ralph Basnett
263 Posted 21/04/2013 at 15:15:08
Mike Green you old romantic. Best your misses gets the best valentines ever, and I'm not taking the piss.

Don't think anyone could have put Everton and Moyes relationship any better.

I just wish she would put him out of his misery and dump him and her daddy wins the euro millions and moves her into the home she deserves!!!!!

Max Murphy
264 Posted 21/04/2013 at 15:31:56
Brent, when a player is a having a run of bad form a manager should take action. Obviously we would hope that all players not lose form all at once. Jelavic for instance could have been benched and Vellios introduced back in February Play him for half an hour or 45 mins and see how he gets on. If it's not worked then at least he's been tried. Duffy should have been brought on for Heitinga, or even replaced him in the starting line-up on many occasions. We've seen glimmers of Oviedo - but Moyes just won't use him. Maybe it only takes one or two players to lift the team - but Moyes is just too negative, and selects his favourites despite their poor form. He was several seasons too late with Neville before the penny dropped
Brent Stephens
265 Posted 21/04/2013 at 15:43:01
Max, if you're saying change them one or two at a time, then I'd agree. But I'd do that against weaker sides if there's any risk against stronger opposition that the player coming in will let us down, hasn't got any track record.
Mike Green
266 Posted 21/04/2013 at 16:47:01
Ralph 584 - nice work, I love the Euromillions angle, fingers crossed it'll get written in to the 2013-14 series! Cheers :D
Eric Myles
267 Posted 21/04/2013 at 16:58:21
Tim #456, then you don't read many of the threads on this site if you haven't seen any posts that Moyes is holding out for money for himself.
Eric Myles
268 Posted 21/04/2013 at 17:03:00
And if you don't think that he's "holding the Club to ransom" for personal gain then surely it's for the benefit of the team so why criticise him? Isn't it what we all want?
Eric Myles
269 Posted 21/04/2013 at 17:07:52
Tim #492 "So he is holding Everton to RANSOM by not allowing the team to pursue other Managers until he is ready to talk"

What's stopping Kenwright talking to other managers? He doesn't need Moyes permission. If he's not happy that Moyes doesn't want to commit until the board show some ambition he can always go look for annother manager any time and there's nothing Moyes could do about it.

In fact he's a fool if he hasn't already done so.

Ian Smitham
272 Posted 21/04/2013 at 18:28:28
Tony#485, sorry to bring it back to Everton after all... Have you uncovered the situation??
Steavey Buckley
273 Posted 22/04/2013 at 11:41:38
Everton's season can be summed by the following words, don't have a goal scorer who can get 18-20 goals a season.

There was not one player in a blue shirt last Saturday who could turn half a chance into a goal. Inspite of complete domination of Sunderland in the second half

Brian Wilkinson
274 Posted 22/04/2013 at 19:56:49
One thing our manager loves is giving confidence to the youngsters. Barkley came in for the Arsenal game; unless I was watching a different game, I thought Barkley did enough to keep his place for the Sunderland game.

Then, the day before the Sunderland game, Moyes comes out with "Barkley will have to bide his time and when selected he needs to perform" — talk about putting pressure on a youngster!

Pienaar has been inconsistent the past few weeks but not even a whimper out of Moyes saying Pienaar has to do it every week. Barkley's confidence must be rock bottom at the moment.

Rewind a couple of season and Leyton Orient in the Capital Cup, Garbutt on at half-time for Baines... never put a foot wrong. Fast-forward to the next round, away to Leeds, and Garbutt not even on the bench. Fast-forward to game before Wigan in the cup: a nice 3-1 win and Gibson having a decent game... Fast forward a week and Gibson dropped and Phil Neville drafted into midfield..

I've always backed Moyes in the past but how can the likes of Naismith get a game every week? I can only assume Naismith has some compromising Polaroids of Davey Moyes.

I don't have any faith in Moyes whatsoever; every time we have a must-win game, he bottles it. I now hope he leaves in the summer; I cannot fault the players he bought but his tactics are baffling at times and a new manager coming in will be a step forward.

But not Martinez; I would like to see Slaven bilic in the frame. He knows what Everton is all about got the international experience and, unlike Moyes, is an attack-minded manager.


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