Club on notice for General Meeting

Minutes of a quarterly meeting between Everton Shareholders Association and representatives of the Club indicate that EFC have less than a month to call a General Meeting of the shareholders in response to a petition put together by the ESA.

The Club wants to make sure firstly that the petition is in order, while ESA are pressing for a larger venue than Goodison Park, which can only hold 250 to 300 people, spread between two rooms.

There is also consternation regarding the ESA's demand for a "show of hands" to require that the Directors amend the Articles of Association to reinstate regular AGMs.

Regarding the new Club Badge, Mr Tyrrell revealed that The Fans Forum has been actively involved in the design process since October 2012 and provided feedback and comment to the In-House Design Team who created the crest. Mr Tyrrell explained that an extensive consultation process was done that included not only the Fans Forum but executives of Supporters Clubs, Brand Experts and Members of the Board.

Furthermore he expressed disappointment about how the new design had been ‘leaked' with the source being the former employee of one of Everton's merchandise suppliers. The supplier in question, like all others, was under a strict non-disclosure agreement and the Club is considering further action.

And in relation to a planned Shareholder Forum, Darren Griffiths restated the Club's determination to not knowingly associate with any members of the Blue Union, insisting that "... we would have to approve any Shareholders Association guest list for an event here at Goodison Park and reserve the right to reject any guests on that list we would deem unwelcome.”

Quotes or other material sourced from Everton Shareholders Association



Reader Comments (65)

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Richard Dodd
1 Posted 26/05/2013 at 07:59:32
The club whose shareholders have no rights unless the Chairman or someone pulling his strings makes you a director!
Paul Andrews
2 Posted 26/05/2013 at 08:48:20
"We wont allow anyone connected with the Blue Union to attend the meeting".
I take that to be specifically Dave Kelly.What is he worried about?
Dave Kelly from what I have seen would wipe the floor with him in open debate,surely he should encourage an open meeting with all parties.None of the Blue Union members would be attending the meeting in that respect.
Dave Kelly is an elected member of the Shareholder Association,he has a right to be there.
In my opinion Robert Elstone has displayed his obvious weakness and lack of confidence to engage Mr Kelly in debate.
Sean Lloyd
3 Posted 26/05/2013 at 12:56:51
Sounds like a Russian Kangaroo Court - Guilty before entering the fray and if there's a hint of Blue Union about you, you may as well hold onto your coat as you're not getting past the lobby.

It's frustrating to see the mockery the 'Peoples Club' subject it's servants to. God help us, we haven't got enough obstacles to overcome already The Echo et al.

Mick Fleming
4 Posted 26/05/2013 at 13:03:49
The utter contempt shown to shareholders and fans by our club is beyond belief. I wish the media would once and for all see through the shite spun by BK and his cronies and out them. What next from this absalute joke of a board.
Dave Roberts
6 Posted 26/05/2013 at 17:21:16
That is an absolute disgrace. Opposition and disagreement is always uncomfortable and I wouldn't expect anybody to look forward to it. But the BU exists whether the club like it or not and they have every right to have their voice heard whether the club, the Board or individual supporters agree with them. It seems to me that the club is being run like a private members institution and if your face or your views don't fit you've had it as persona non grata.

It merely reinforces the view that there is something dark and stinking lurking somewhere that they are trying to hide.

As for the badge, just as the shite lay claim to the Liver Bird for theirs we come out with one that looks like a fucking charity sticker or a kid's mock tattoo transfer. And, it seems, the death of the motto just about sums it all up at the moment. What is Latin for 'Anything is good enough from now on'?

Dave Roberts
7 Posted 26/05/2013 at 17:42:00
Got it....QUID FACIAM....anything will do.
Ross Edwards
8 Posted 26/05/2013 at 17:47:47
A further indication that the Tyrant completely ignores his oppositions' existence. He has a lot to answer for, the fact that no one from the BU is allowed in underlines their cowardice. They can't debate the BU because they know that they will lose.
Alan Ross
9 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:01:52
"we would have to approve any Shareholders Association guest list for an event here at Goodison Park and reserve the right to reject any guests on that list we would deem unwelcome.”

in other words if you are not in Bully Bill's clique, Fuck off.

What is the guy affraid of. Oh that's right ! He's a bully.

Colin Glassar
10 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:15:16
William Stalin Kenwright esq. aka beloved leader, supreme guiding light, sunshine of our existence etc..... You are full of shit sir.
Paul Andrews
11 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:31:09
Horrible bastard Mr Chairman.
Not quite the bumbling idiot he makes himself out to be.
Anyone remember what he said to a shareholder who asked him a question he did not like "your boring me now,your question bores me"
Gavin Ramejkis
12 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:45:30
Have to say the Stalinesque nature of Bill Jong Ill's nasty little junta really has no shame and knows no new low it will stoop to. The fans need to continue to question its validity and sheer disregard for the club and it's support, create our own critical pedagogy and spread the word amongst the fan base to work to change and save the future of the club we all love. We may not all agree with each other but this nasty vindictive regime cannot continue.
Richard Dodd
13 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:52:34
Expect a change of Company lawyers if the present lot can`t find a way round holding an EGM.
Our group`s `in house` tells me there is a way to do that and that he will be surprised if they don't spot it !
Fancy opening a book on whether it will take place?
Phil Walling
14 Posted 26/05/2013 at 19:03:08
I`m asking Corals for a price about Stubbsy and an EGM!
Dave Roberts
15 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:34:57
What annoys me particularly is that the pricks making these decisions and spouting this prejudice are transient. Most of them are just employees and could be working for British Gas next year. Even Blue Bill will go his merry way one day. Players come and go, managers move on to 'better things' and some can even manage two clubs at once. But the one consistent factor in the phenomenon that is Everton Football Club are the supporters.

We all pass on in due course of time, but my grandfather supported Everton in the 1890s and my father began going to Goodison in 1910 with his older brother who went even earlier. My dad started taking me in the fifties and my daughter will take over from me when I go to the great Goodison in the sky. Most Blues can tell similar stories and have similar histories. But who bothers to consult us when they decide to cease AGM's? Who bothers to send me a little letter saying something like 'Dear Dave, As a lifelong supporter and season ticket holder for 37 years we feel we value your opinion and therefore could you provide your view of this prospective new badge?'

I don't expect to be consulted about how many tea bags the char lady puts in the pot at Board meetings or the colour scheme for the new manager's office at Finch Farm. But I would appreciate at least a nod in my direction when they want to change the club's badge. They gave me a vote because it suited them when they wanted to go to Kirkby so why not at least an opportunity to express an opinion about the club's badge? Rather than use eleven tame members of the Fan's Forum?

The answer is because they don't give a shit about me. I, and thousands of others like me are taken for granted. They depend on our loyalty but give very little back in the way of respect.

What do I (or we) do about it?

Well the answer is simple isn't it? Get bad service in a restaurant and you don't go back. Get robbed silly in a shop and you don't use it again. Put your car in a garage and they make it worse and you never use it again. So, I shall stop going to the match, I shall stop buying season tickets. I will stop supporting Everton.

But I won't will I? And neither will the vast majority of the pissed-off and the disenfranchised. No, we will carry on going and supporting the team through thick and thin and thereby we are the authors of our own inevitable defeat. They've got us by the bollocks because the club means far more to me (us?) than it ever will to them.

It's a stitch up whether we like it or not!

Colin Glassar
16 Posted 26/05/2013 at 19:08:10
I'm doing an accumulator on no EGM, Sven borin Ericsson as next manager, and us winning the title next season. I imagine the odds should be good.
Colin Wainwright
17 Posted 26/05/2013 at 19:13:18
Well put Dave (436). The gobshites have got us by the nasties until everyone of us sings from the same hymn sheet. This board cannot afford even two home games with minimal gates. It's shite, it hurts the team but I think the time has come for an organised boycott.
Steven Telford
18 Posted 26/05/2013 at 18:39:02
Nobody who disagree with the board or the chairman is allowed to attend. With every minute that passes my resentment to the board grows.
Not just for a triumph of taste, but it would be great symbolic victory over the board if the fans could rally to have them reverse the decision which bastardised our insignia.
Would rightly put Kenwright in his place.
Ross Edwards
19 Posted 26/05/2013 at 19:42:40
It's unlikely though Steven. We've announced this now so that by August the furore would have calmed down. It's just tyrannical, sickening, disgusting use of damaged limitation by the board.
They saw this coming, they sent about 5 tweets out defending the crest, the OS as got that crap saying we were consulted etc.
They don't even give a damn jot. We must make them.
Paul Andrews
20 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:00:32
Dave Roberts 436,

Very well put,nail on the head stuff there.
If and when Mr Chairman gets his asking price will he attend every home game?
We will still be there when they are all gone.

Ross Edwards
21 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:03:16
He is behaving like a dictator clinging to power. He should step aside and sell but his egoistic view that he is somehow a saviour.
Watch this. Sums his tyrannical regime up.
Remember his "no bigger fan than me?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEKfsTiEC30
Remember this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhwYxFBn6uA
"Your BU have betrayed this club"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c-BklwScNYs
Ross Edwards
22 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:14:21
*Should say: his egoistical view that he is a saviour and the no 1 fan would be bruised.
Colin Wainwright
23 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:14:52
Check this out Ross. It nails Bill (nicked from KEIOC). www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcHWeAzoXd4
Chris Stephenson
24 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:21:25
I don't have a Twitter account but someone on the Pereria item the other day posted a load of Twitter account things to try and get some people 'out there' interested, in Bielsa, actually I think....

I would be interested to know what would happen if someone tweeted a link to this article and the comments here to all those people? And more people maybe...Ive copied a few of them below....

@StellingJeff
@bbc606
@philmcnulty (football correspondent for BBC)
@mdunn1982 (head of sport for sun)
@ColinMurray
@CWheelerDM (North West sports reporter for Daily Mail)
@SteveWilson1967 (BBC match of day commentator)
@talkSPORTKO
@mickquinn1089
@neilashton_ (football writer Daily Mail)
@MirrorFootball
@BKL_Productions (Bill Kenwright's official twitter)
@tSPressPass
@iomatrix23 (Marco Materatzi!)

Ross Edwards
25 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:39:27
What about a mass boycott of the first few games of next season? I know we are fans and all but we need to give the board something to worry about to sit up and take notice, because at the moment, Adolf Kenwright just doesn't give a baloney.
Gavin Ramejkis
26 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:48:29
Chris Colin Murray is a devoted RS and would enjoy the article as any RS would at or expense
Richard Dodd
27 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:46:58
No,No,No Ross!
What the hell are you thinking about? Why should we let these plonkers spoil the enjoyment of watching our side?
I don`t follow Everton because of its badge or AGMs (all politics!) I go to support my side and the last thing I`ll do is be led by the nose by sporting anarchists like you !
Ross Edwards
28 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:54:51
It would send out a message wouldn't it Doddy?
In a way they have spoilt our enjoyment. If Green and Grantchester were more willing to put their cash on the table, we would have more quality players, and possibly a new stadium, they have put that monstrosity of a badge all over the merchandise and Goodison.
The board are everything that is wrong with Goodison. You admit that yourself don't you? If we attend like everything is hunky dory, they would think they've got away with it, and they haven't, and they won't.
We need to do something to stop this and the board from ruining us even further.
Colin Wainwright
29 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:54:06
Richard, you have just summed up, in a couple of sentences, why Bill will be allowed to fuck this club up indefinitely. I understand. We're all Evertonians, we all love this club, but something out of the ordinary is required to get shut of these people. Short term pain.......
Paul Gladwell
30 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:56:26
What do you suggest Richard, something has to be done, I will not buy that kit for my lad, however he's only four, parents with kids six upwards I'm sure will have too, but boycotting stuff has to be a cert.
Paul Gladwell
31 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:59:21
If no one turned up at the annual pre season Goodison game would be something too.
Mark Frere
32 Posted 26/05/2013 at 20:53:49
Ross Edwards 466

A mass boycott is never going to happen, but I agree it would be the only way the board would sit up and take notice, because the financial implications would directly effect them.

The ones that are older enough to remember, cast your minds back to 1982ish, attendences had dropped to 16,000 for many home games and that then prompted the board to invest in new players which brought us the golden era in Evertons history

Ross Edwards
33 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:03:04
We need to definitely do something, for sure. We cannot let this circus of clowns ruin the image of this great club and humiliate us further. We are being held back by these idiots and radical action, though painful in the short term could be beneficial in the long term if we get rid of them or they do a U turn.
Ross Edwards
34 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:05:33
Mark
Alright,not a mass boycott, but a boycott of both merchendise and of the first few games of next season. It may hurt as fans, but it will also make the board sit up as well.
They cannot, and will not get away with this.
Chris Stephenson
36 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:09:37
Gavin (468) Yeah, I just copied it from the other thread and forgot to take him out. It just amazes me though that no one in the wider media picks up on this sort of thing and talks about it...
Paul Gladwell
37 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:12:20
Collymore has, seems he's the best around to be honest, that other prick Parry keeps getting asked but he won't say shite about his luvvie mate.
Gavin Ramejkis
38 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:13:19
Its been discussed before Chris, if Everton were one of the media dahlings it'd be all over the papers and TV, we aren't so its not news worthy - yuk another of those bollocks media lines
Richard Dodd
39 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:33:40
Unless BK strikes lucky with `THE `appointment,I fear we shall be seeing gates plunging anyway.I suspect Moyes` seventhish` has been our place in the sun.
Meanwhile I wont buy things with badges on them and I`ll definitely boycot the EGM!
Dan Brierley
40 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:05:28
Boycotting and not buying merchandise hurts only the club, not the board. The club is not run on their money, as we already know they have not invested anything, nor take salaries. If we lose revenue, then the first thing that is cut is the wage budget.

And if you are going to protest, why stay away? Why not have your protest broadcast on the Sky camera's all around the world? Silent protests are only going to be effective if the stadium is half empty.

And if I understand correctly, BK did already meet with a protest group. And they then recorded the meeting despite clearly agreeing not to, and then apparently doctored the manuscript to suit their agenda and paint BK in an unfavourable light. Since then, it appears that all communications and forums have ceased. So it sounds like somebody fucked it up for everyone, as opposed to a tyrannical regime refusing to discuss things.

The interesting thing for myself, is what happens if the protest succeeds? If BK and the board walk away tomorrow, who will actually run the club, and how will it be any better? I would support anything that made our beloved club better. But without a board, I can see only anarchy. Our creditors would immediately want their money back, and for this to happen most of the players would have to be sold. I think this is why many refuse to protest, as Everton without a board is a thousand levels worse than what we have today. Of course, if there was a buyer out there it would make protesting easy, similar to how BK got in charge in the first place.

Colin Wainwright
41 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:48:29
Dan, that is one impressive pile of ignorant cack. You obviously don't "understand correctly", instead you have just created your own reality. Good luck in Danland.

Your supposition that Bill, and his HMRC bothering pals, leaving Everton, would create a void filled only by anarchy, is total shite, as you well know.

Russ Quinlan
42 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:46:10
There are not enough of us willing to take part in a boycott to make any difference. Maybe if enough of us sneaked in banners or even individual card smuggled under coats and then shown right on kick off even all the stewards couldnt take them away that quickly that they wouldnt be noticed. Imagine Gladyws St and the Park End emblazoned in blue cards (like the kop at the derby) stating a simple message. Surely the National Press would at least start asking questions coz we know the local press wont.
Something needs to be done to show this board up for what they are. Dictators
Mark Frere
43 Posted 26/05/2013 at 21:50:20
Dan Brierley
How can the board just walk away? they hold the big majority shares. What they should do, is sell the club for what they bought Everton for, that would be the decent thing to do, considering they've invested fuck all of their own money and run our beloved club further into the ground.

Dan, i'm not going to comment any further on your ridiculous post, I would be here all night

ABSOLUTE DRIVEL!

Dan Brierley
44 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:03:47
Mark, I am not willing to explain to you the mechanics of how selling something requires a buyer.
Gavin Ramejkis
45 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:14:51
And God help anyone who ever ponders to add to your half arsed response with its hugely dependent on the asking price Dan, too high for whats on offer and no takers, 14 years, tick, tock, tick, tock, tick, tock.
Patrick Murphy
46 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:11:54
Perhaps if as many fans as possible wore white t-shirts with the old crest on it if the club don't backtrack on their decision that may have an effect, it wouldn't hurt the club but it would be a visible protest which they couldn't ignore. Something along those lines anyway.
Dan Brierley
47 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:17:19
I don't have the energy to go into the debate about why we haven't been bought again Gav! We have done it to death. We will just have to agree to disagree.
Patrick Murphy
48 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:19:40
BTW Gavin sorry for not getting back to you earlier, I'm penciled in to visit 2nd week in June, you can contact me on patmags@mail.com cheers.
Kevin Tully
49 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:34:37
Could something like the new crest actually be the start of mass unrest amongst the more mellow members of our fan base?

William Blundell
50 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:36:13
Why are they scared of debate? Because they have no answers. No questions? No answers. Motion carried... end of.
Patrick Murphy
51 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:48:03
It's always the last straw that breaks the camel's back Kevin, you never know. I just watched the Italian Cup Final and apparently Lazio have done a similar thing to their badge/crest for the same reasons given that we changed ours, I can't find much on tinternet but their fans are none to happy either, I wonder if they are moving from their current manaufacturer's to Nike?
Gavin Ramejkis
52 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:46:57
No worries Pat, hopefully I'll be back home some time you are nearby. should that have read gmail by the way?

Going back to Everton itself, years ago I read a very good management book written by Don Keogh, he isn't one of these professors of business that talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk, he was the former President of Coca Cola and yes in that role during the disaster which was New Coke. He has 11 rules which he says are guarantees to failure for a business, I had a quick check again and see how many of them you could stick to BK's office door.

1 Quit Taking Risks
2 Be Inflexible
3 Isolate Yourself
4 Assume Infallibility
5 Play the Game Close to the Foul Line
6 Do not Take Time to Think
7 Put all Your Faith in Experts and Outside Consultants
8 Love Your Bureaucracy
9 Send Mixed Messages
10 Be Afraid of the Future
11 Lose Your Passion for Work - For Life

Patrick Murphy
53 Posted 26/05/2013 at 22:57:09
Gavin I think you've go mixed up mate that's BK's version of the 10 Commandments. The address is correct there is no G in it.
Eugene Ruane
54 Posted 27/05/2013 at 01:01:38
Dan - "I don't have the energy to go into the debate about why we haven't been bought again Gav! We have done it to death. We will just have to agree to disagree"

Funny, you've always got 'the energy' to post your apologist nonsense, but suddenly feel shattered when asked to justify it.

How strange

Eric Myles
55 Posted 27/05/2013 at 06:11:24
Surely the Board have an obligation to provide a venue that can accommodate ALL of the shareholders?

And they cannot select which shareholders or their proxies can and cannot attend an EGM.

If this EGM requires invitations/notices to attend then expect that they will only be sent to those the Club know will support them and not ask awkward questions.

Robin Cannon
56 Posted 27/05/2013 at 06:31:31
@Eric(564) - Yeah, I'm kinda confused about that as well. Either it's an EGM, in which case shareholders have the right to attend, or it's not.

If the club were saying that they had the right to approve non-shareholder guests of the Shareholders' Association then they'd be perfectly legitimately within their rights. I don't see how they can refuse entry to actual Everton shareholders, though.

Paul Andrews
57 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:10:46
Robin,

surely a club cant treat it`s shareholders like this?
We are promoted by Mr Chairman as the Peoples Club.

Steve Pugh
58 Posted 27/05/2013 at 07:09:00
What about a simple, old fashioned petition, partially online for those of us who don't live near Liverpool and a proper hitting the streets job. I know that its a bit wrong for me to suggest something like this when I can't help but I think it's the right way to start.

The petition could be along the lines of "We the undersigned request the immediate resignation of the Chairman and Board of Directors, and the appointment of a third party to arrange the sale of the club."

Once we have enough signatures we alert the press and make sure that there is a huge turnout when the petition is delivered.

Whilst I don't expect the board to act if we can get 20,000+ signatures it will be too much for the media to ignore.

Paul Andrews
59 Posted 27/05/2013 at 08:07:17
Evertonians I speak to are up in arms about the way the club is run. I think the badge could be the catalyst to upheaval.

It started with David Moyes leaving the club as a lot of Blues felt safe with him at the helm. It has grown stronger as we see the badge being changed at the whim of the kit producers, and is made even stronger by the vetting from Robert Elstone of the shareholders who will be barred from attending the Shareholders Forum. A case of "you can't attend if you have a point to make against the way the club is run".

Absolute shambles at the moment.

Jimmy Sørheim
60 Posted 27/05/2013 at 06:03:13
1. The switch of the badge will come back to haunt them, if not now then certainly when the season starts. I will support any and all protest on this issue.

2. Long term, they will have to go back to the original if the fans vote with their feet and stay away from home games. It is stupid to think that they can force the fans; long-term fans have all the power, we need to remember that. We need to not forget about when the new season starts.

Again, if we remember and vote with our feet then they will have to give in .

Gavin Ramejkis
61 Posted 27/05/2013 at 09:38:42
The badge petition is currently sitting at 14,100 signatures and still rising. There are plenty of disillusioned supporters but getting them to rally around a single cause is hard.
Brent Stephens
62 Posted 27/05/2013 at 09:42:29
Gavin "There are plenty of disillusioned supporters but getting them to rally around a single cause is hard".

14,000 is quite something, already. But if we could get into the computers of those who haven't signed yet...! Where's that RS guy when you need him, the one who has once or twice hacked into the Live Forum on matchdays!

(Note to MI5 - just joking, lads).

David Johnson
63 Posted 27/05/2013 at 11:51:15
Could we have a General Meeting poll ???
Tony Heslop
64 Posted 27/05/2013 at 13:03:52
For clarity, no one can be excluded from the EGM/AGM if they satisfy the criteria as bona fide shareholders or proxies. It was for a proposed Shareholders Forum, of which we have at least two a year, that the Club wanted to vet the list of prospective attendees, something that hasn't happened before to my knowledge. The usual formula for these events, which have worked well in the past, is that the EFCSA will invite speakers, and Darren Griffiths has helped us out in the past with Club contacts, we will hire the room, lay on tea and coffee and invite members plus guests. Alan Irvine and Joe Royle were recent guest speakers and very good meetings they were too and we were hoping for Alan Stubbs and/or David Weir this time.
Paul Andrews
65 Posted 27/05/2013 at 15:13:13
Thanks for that Tony.
What are your thoughts re Dave Kelly attending the meeting ?
Martin Farrington
66 Posted 27/05/2013 at 17:05:54
Jesus, no wonder this club's doomed with that bunch of Nazis in charge.

As for Billy Liar and the rest of the "Shambolics" refusing to let go their tight hold and allowing this once glorious and illustrious club to flounder YET AGAIN – take your pound of flesh and be done with you for another season and thereafter – I despise you ALL!!!

Yet again, silence is their Golden Goose as we are still a rudderless ship. Hmmm.... no urgency – until about 24 hours to season kick-off – when they finally shit themselves having done fook all to replace Moyes... then, Hey Presto – Howard Kendall re-appointed (an international manager with Premier League pedigree).

There'll be the usual no signing till the following January when Billy Liar's West / East / South / North End Show finally produces urgently needed cash to stave off the wolves from the door when we'll take on loan Tom Huddlestone (who has by now broken his leg by tripping over his exploding hair in a freak yachting accident).

Yet we'll all take the reaming from the Suits of the Club, coz all of us have one disease in common – Everton!!!

Brian Waring
67 Posted 28/05/2013 at 14:10:14
Dan, the club were looking at taking legal action against the BU in regards to that meeting, funny how it never happened.

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