Southall chimes in on 'lack of ambition'

, TalkSport , 1 June, 185comments  |  Jump to most recent
Neville Southall has been telling TalkSport that, if Roberto Martinez becomes Everton's new manager, he thinks it will prove the club lack ambition.

“I'd like to see Everton promote from within the club or I'd like to get someone in who is completely fresh who has won something.

“I'd like to see someone come in who has won league title somewhere. Whether it be from Spain, France, Germany, I don't mind. I want someone who actually knows what it's like to win the league somewhere.

“What Everton do lack is that little bit of ambition. Everton fans don't want to win the FA Cup, although they will take it if it's the only thing on offer, they want to back to winning the league and being in the top four.

“They need to make sure someone comes in who knows what the fans want, knows the history of the club and understands what the fans want.”

Quotes or other material sourced from TalkSport



Reader Comments (185)

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Tom Dodds
1 Posted 01/06/2013 at 17:40:23
Neville Southall has just come out (SSN) and said he would "...prefer a manager from a European team rather than locally... Or an internal appointment".

Make of that one then.

Brian Hill
2 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:02:09
"Everton fans don't want to win the FA Cup, although they will take it if it's the only thing on offer."

?????????

Tony J Williams
3 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:07:53
Don't forget Brian, the man is a winner, he was with us when we had our best side in generations. His idea of success is higher than the trophy-starved teenagers of today.
Kevin Day
4 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:08:33
I think what he's trying to say, Brian, is that Everton deserve to be dining at the top tables; how do Man Utd et al view the FA Cup? They do not take it seriously until they get to the semi, or if they're out of Champions League contention.

It's the priority list: Premier League, Champions League, FA Cup, League Cup.

Chris Morris
5 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:13:31
I want anyone who has the drive to want to win everything.
Ian Edwards
6 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:14:04
Neville was a great player but is talking nonsense. Whoever is appointed manager will not have the funds to challenge for the title.

Appointing Martinez will show the club is willing to appoint someone that plays entertaining football and can win the FA Cup. Yes, Neville, the fans want a trophy.

What will show a lack of ambition is appointing from within such as Phil Neville or Davey Weir. If we give the job to Stubbs then that will be a disaster of cataclysmic proportions.

Charlie Percival
7 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:40:34
I love Neville's straight talking and the way he says it how it is. He's right in everything he says.

What a legend.

Charlie Percival
8 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:41:22
(I listened to full interview)

http://www.talksport.co.uk/sports-news/football/premier-league/130601/exclusive-%E2%80%93-neville-southall-appointing-roberto-martinez-would-show-ever-1987?

Eugene Ruane
9 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:36:59
Martinez, Pereira or the German feller.

If one of these is appointed (my choice would be Pereira but not for any really good solid reason/s) I would be going into next season with some optimism.

Not doing cart-wheels maybe, but accepting it's a new fresh start, get behind the new feller etc, hope for the best.

If it is Stubbs, I will of course get behind him and hope for the best, but I can say now should I hear - "Everton have announced their new manager is to be their former centre..." - my first reaction will be 'Jesus fucking WEPT!!'

Mike Hall
10 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:43:46
An appointment from within will show a complete lack of ambition. I would take Martinez over someone who was no managerial experience anyday — and I don't count 'youth team coach' as managerial experience. However, given the choice, I would take Pereira over Martinez all day.
Jay Prendergast
11 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:47:27
Of course the new manager won't be given funds to compete as we have a board who have sat on their hands throughout the duration of their tenure and done zilch to advance the club commercially.

Any extra money has been generated by Moyes or the ever increasing TV deals which doesn't really help when everyone else is getting it as well. These guys are hanging on in there in order to make a killing off the back of the club. Speculate to accumulate, they say, but these fellers will only do that for their personal benefit — not for Everton FC.

James Stewart
12 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:59:55
Southall is a legend but he is talking shit. How is Martinez a lack of ambition but promoting from within isn't? That makes no sense! At least Martinez as managerial experience.

Rangnick would be my choice out of the 3. I will accept Martinez though if hes installed. I will not accept a Stubbs/Weir.

Kevin Tully
13 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:48:51
I get the feeling if this was 20 years ago, we wouldn't have all these reserve or academy applications for the managers position.

The job will come with at least a £1.5 -£2m a year salary, and a 3 year contract.

Even if they feck up after 6months, they are looking at lottery win. You can't tell me this is not partly the reason they are all clamouring for the job.

They should all go and earn their reputation elsewhere, and then apply for a job of this magnitude. I don't want anyone in charge of the first team without the necessary experience, and certainly not their first job in management. Weir, Stubbs & Ferguson haven't even been a number two at another club.

Harvey Miller
14 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:43:50
Ralf Rangnick is the best candidate by far. He has won cups in Germany, took Hoffenheim to the Bundesliga from third level and was in the Champions League semifinals with Schalke.

He wants to play good attacking football and seems to be keen on bringing youth players on. I think he was very much part of the German football development and the results are there to be seen: Germans have become quite a force in club and international football.

The only downside could be the stress factor. He resigned from Schalke due to exhaustion syndrome and the PL could be mentally even harder than the Bundesliga. Still, his CV being so much better than that of all the other candidate's, I think we just need to sign this guy.

Andrew Clare
15 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:06:04
I agree with Neville. I also think the club showed a lack of ambition when they appointed Walter Smith and David Moyes.

The manager is the most important man at the club so only the best should be considered. I do not think that Martinez is that man.

Since the eighties, our expectations have been lowered and lowered. I also believe that there are managers out there who can achieve success with limited funds.

Chris Morris
16 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:06:25
Some people have a serious issue with Stubbs being appointed for absolutely no reason whatsoever.
Nick Edwards
17 Posted 01/06/2013 at 18:23:56
@ 099 Brian Hill

Bit harsh on Big Nev to pull him up on that one line from a 10-min interview. Having listened to the whole thing and plenty else it's clear he's far more in touch with the fans than anyone involved with that clipart farce of a badge.

What he seemed to mean was that, given our history, anyone who cares about the club should never be content to 'just' win a cup, but given the current state of affairs – ie wage bill largely determining final league position – it's better to have a cup win than nothing at all.

Also, he alluded to the idea that a competent board wouldn't have let a situation develop whereby one of the richest clubs in the world could take from us one of the best paid managers in the world without having to pay us a penny in compensation.

If one line from that interview best sums up Southall's feelings, it's maybe this one (in response to being asked about the possibility of certain players following Moyes out the door):

"At the end of the day, if you wanna leave a club like Everton, I say good riddance to you, mate."

Aidy Dews
18 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:07:49
Big Nev is a legend at the club but, regardless of who we bring in, whether it be a Martinez or a league winner, we won't be in the frame to win cups on a regular basis or be challenging for the league at all with our finances!

I get what he's saying when he wants us to bring in a man who has won titles as it will change the thinking among the players, if he's a winner he will want winners playing for him and he'll bring that mentality! But with our squad and current finances, we wont' be in with a shot of winning the league, that's for sure. The best we can hope for is a cup or top four, and that's the reality of it!

I was born in the 80s, 84 to be exact and only know stories of the title-winning sides from my dad. I'd love us to be back at the top and competing for league honours but I'm not daft enough to know that we can't compete cos of finances unfortunately. So IF we did ever win a cup these days, or qualify for the Champions League, that would be an achievement for us, and that sounds really wrong for a club like us!.

Southall reckons appointing from within is basically more ambitious than appointing Martinez but that's bollocks. Martinez HAS Premier League management experience and as just won the FA Cup, a cup our old manager failed to win with us in 11 years but yet he as got the United job! Now to me, just cos he didn't win a cup, that doesn't make Moyes a failure cos he's a good manager, but I wouldn't write off Martinez so easily. He's clearly the preferred choice for Kenwright IMO.

But, by the sounds of it, Rangnick has thrown the cat amongst the pigeons the other day and apparently impressed greatly in his chat with Kenwright.

But is he wanting the job full-time or has Kenwright interviewed him to be our first ever Director of Football, a job he currently holds at Red Bull Salzburg in Austria?! Does Kenwright want him in under that position above someone like Pereira as Pereira has only ever worked with a Director of Football.

We'll soon find out come the beginning of next week!

Kevin Tully
19 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:19:54
Feel free to make a case Chris - but don't mention he's an Evertonian, so am I, and I'd be fecking useless at the job.
Chris Morris
20 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:23:11
Kevin Tully

I'm not making a case for him but somehow from the internal candidates he's the one who people begrudge most. He's the only one I know who has been involved in some "management" role at the club. Neville, Weir and Ferguson were all mentioned also and people were OK with them getting an assistants job at least.. But not Stubbs????

He's an Evertonian!!!!

Aidy Dews
22 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:30:58
Wasn't it Southall that was championing for us to appoint Zola last month, a manager who I rate but with very little experience? To me, if he thinks appointing Martinez is unambitious then appointing a Zola is on the same level.
Eugene Ruane
23 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:23:03
Just had a listen and I agree completely with the general tone

He's on radio so maybe rushing his thoughts a bit and yes he contradicts himself on occasion ("maybe Stubbs" and "I'd like to see somene who has won a league title") however I love the sentiment he's trying to get across and I love that he 'gets' Everton and that he doesn't pussyfoot about.

(first time 'in the meeja' I've ever heard 'Everton supporters don't like Bill Kenwright')

"We should be going for the league".

Absolutely!

Kevin Tully
24 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:29:17
Not me Chris, - I'll be requesting a refund if any of those feckers get the job!

None of them are even remotely qualified for the managers position at the club, and I doubt vey much if any of the first team think they are either.

We want someone to take us forward from this point onwards, they would all be sweating on 40 points more than Moyes ever was, we could expect plenty of hoofing, and lots of bodies behind the ball.

It would be a disaster if any of those got the job.

Kevin Tully
25 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:37:36
If the last fella thought Stubbs was good enough to be our manager, he would be offering him a job at OT.

Southall must be pals with Stubbs, that's the only reason he would recommend him.

Richard Reeves
26 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:06:56
I agreed with everything he had to say.

I noticed in one instance he was saying that Martinez is a good manager and then saying that it would show a lack of ambition by the club and that Everton should be going for someone with experience of winning a league in another country, something similar to what I think. When Moyes was here, I would've snapped your hand off if offered the chance to replace Moyes with Martinez and I still think Martinez could do a good job for us but, given the choice that Kenwright has of several good managers, I would have Martinez about 5th on my list. Seeing as that list Is now down to three, I would go for Pereira then Rangnick and then Martinez.

Admittedly I have gone a bit cold on the idea of having Martinez as manager as of late; I think we'd play some really good football, might win a cup, maybe see some of the younger players develop, and we certainly won't know what the outcome of a game will be before we kick off... but I do think that he will not better Moyes's league positions so expectations will only be so high.

If we get Pereira, I would believe a real longer-term plan could be developed where we COULD break into the top 4 with some shrewd signings, selling a few big earners, giving some youngsters a chance, and implementing a whole new philosophy of how to play. I could be completely wrong but Pereira is my first choice, by far.

Tony Marsh
27 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:36:52
Well, boys... not long now for BK to announce his choice. Word is Pip is back with qualifications under his belt next week. Please make it not so. I have a terrible feeling that a bombshell of huge proportions is about to be dropped on our heads...

If one of the big 3 were to be the next manager of Everton and all have been interviewed last week and before why has nobody been installed? Surely if Kenwright has half a brain he could decide on one of the big 3 by now? No, BK is waiting for Pip to come back with his answer so the other guys have been put on Ice. There is no other explanation.

I know some of you want to believe Kenwright is being careful and doing the right thing. I reckon Weepy Bill is up to no good. More nonsense and smokescreens to hide the real truth.

Let's face it, he has previous for it but, then again, some of you never learn... Please not one of the Finch Farm Posse, FFS.

Chris Morris
28 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:45:23
I agree we need a manager who knows how to manage at the top level. Unfortunately we aren't good enough for the elite group of managers but we are definitely now in the hunt for "the next best".

A lot of people seem convinced that Vitor Pereira or Ralf "I'm too tired" Rangnick are the answer. Personally I'm not a huge fan of Martinez but at least I've heard of him

Richard Dodd
29 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:44:29
Never thought I`d say it but it makes me glad it`s BK making the appointment. Great keeper, Nev, but save us from his garbled logic.... please!
Chris Morris
30 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:53:53
Can't we try and tempt SAF out of retirement?????
Phil Sammon
31 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:38:52
I love Nev and love how straight he talks...but I don't know what hes on about here.

I like all the internal lads but how can you say you want to 'win the league' and also be happy appointing a man who zero first team management experience.

I know absolutely cock all about Periera and Rangnick - in fact, it took me over one full minute to find out how to spell the German chap's name - and as for Martinez (pronounced Mar-teen-ez) I think we'd all get behind him but his record really does scare me.

A very big decision.

Brian Garside
32 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:52:51
Apart from the promoting from within Nev is right. We need a manager who is a winner. One who can make nearly boys achievers/winners. Attacking football playerd in the right way is fun to play. It creats its own habbit which becomes momemtum. Look at Manure as an example. As I wrote else where BK must be brave and apoint the man he believs in most. Not a compromise or someone to keep ourselves or the press happy. Dare to get it wrong I say. Just as DM didnt dare to win for fear of loosing. BK must see this as the apointment which will make or break him. He can then say at least that he tried.
Paul Andrews
33 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:06:34
Surely even Mr Chairman would not have the town halls to try to give the job to one of the back room staff after interviewing double league title winners,a manager who won an FA Cup and a manager who took a team to a Champions League semi final
Eugene Ruane
34 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:55:34
Chris (137) - "He's an Evertonian!!!!"

So are you.

So let me ask you.

If another Wayne Rooney came along FOR EVERTON, would you actively encourage him to go to a 'bigger' club?

No you wouldn't, but that's what your 'Evertonian!!!' did with the first one.

Remember Stubbs owns/owned shares in Pro-Active (Stretford's company?) and more than nudged Rooney into their arms and consequently out of Goodison (no doubt nudging a nice few nicker into his own bin)

Stubbs advice to Rooney was basically to leave Everton.

The reality is, there are Evertonians and there are 'Evertonians'.

Chris Morris
35 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:14:31
Eugene #155

It was a Tongue In Cheek reply to Kevin Tully's previous post.

Chill out man

Peter Leslie
36 Posted 01/06/2013 at 19:55:25
..."Some people have a serious issue with Stubbs being appointed for absolutely no reason whatsoever."

I don't think you meant it to read like that Chris, but I agree - there IS absolutely no reason whatsoever to appoint Stubbs as manager.

My dream team is Rangnick as Director of Football over either Pereira or Martinez as first team coach (prefer VP, but OK with RM) with blue-bloods like Stubbs/Weir/Ferguson and Sheedy as assistant coaches to provide some stability.

If that happens, BK will go up in many peoples' estimation and we'll look forward with confidence.

COYFB.

Phil Sammon
37 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:24:59
Why do you want a Director of Football, Peter?
Kevin Tully
38 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:30:38
I read somewhere today that Pip is possibly lined up for the Brighton gig, to replace Poyet.
Ross Edwards
39 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:38:41
Jose Mourinho has had his last game... so has Jupp Heyneckes.

Is there a chance of getting either of them before Monday?

Kevin Tully
40 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:35:15
Just in case anyone was in any doubt about a Stubbs/Weir/Neville appointment, please see what Sir Ben Kingsley had to say when he was asked.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RitQOh9Z3yY

Tony Marsh
41 Posted 01/06/2013 at 20:57:52
There will be some sick looking faces next week when Bill destroys dreams and ambitions with one of his most Dastardly Deeds ever. It's soul destroying to know what BK is up to yet some are still giving him the benefit of the doubt. It's as if they have never been hoodwinked before by Slippery Arse or they have forgiven him if they have.

I hope to God I am wrong for all our sakes. I will be expecting some grovelling apologies if I am proved right. It has made me chuckle though reading these threads where our fans actually believe these interviews have been genuine.

It's only a few months ago since the Leroy Fer debacle – that was the biggest con since the Vardis Ofoe debacle. Kenwright should be hounded out of Merseyside if, after all this pontificating, he appoints one of our own. It's all ending in tears... I can see it now.

BK OUT!!!

Michael Kenrick
42 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:16:49
Tony, you've been telling us for weeks now what's going down, and how soft we are all are to believe anything else... so how could you possibly be wrong??? I'm confused.

However, if you are wrong, I think we'll be looking for a helluva lot more than meaningless apologies from you.

Ross Edwards
43 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:21:15
If Bill decides to go in house now Marshy he's wasted his, Martinez's, Periera's, Rangnick's, Sky's, and most importantly, our time.


It's looking increasingly like Martinez is getting it.

Eugene Ruane
44 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:05:58
Chris Morris (156) - "Eugene #155. It was a Tongue In Cheek reply to Kevin Tully's previous post. Chill out man".

Of course it was.

I have obviously completely misinterpreted - "Some people have a serious issue with Stubbs being appointed for absolutely no reason whatsoever"

You'll have to forgive me, I still have the old TW which only allows me to deal in the written word and don't yet have Toffeecam that (I presume) allows one to post seemingly serious posts while winking cheekily to indicate 'I'm only joshing'.

And you know where you can stick your chill pills 'man'

(he said winking cheekily meaning the total opposite...possibly..but it's hard to tell).

Ross Edwards
45 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:23:14
Peter, why a director of football?

They can be very disruptive to the manager, Comolli, Henk Ten Cate, Arnesen are recent examples of directors of football that have proved disruptive to their clubs.. Anyway, directors of football are not really an English tradition to be honest.
Peter, if Periera was appointed, he would want who he wanted, not who Rangnick, the director of football, would want. It just wouldn't work sadly. Plus, we would have to pay around £3million for Periera's wages, and around that figure for the director of football. Great idea, but it wouldn't work sadly.

Slightly off topic, Negredo has scored 4 goals for Sevilla tonight. Could the new manager use the potential Felli money to buy him?

Ross Edwards
46 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:42:37
" Everton fans don't want to win the FA Cup"

I'd like to know where Neville Southall has been for the last 19 years to be honest. Of course we want to win the Cup. That's why, especially on TW, we took the Wigan and the RS semi very hard indeed.

I had agreed with everything he had said until then. I'd even take a League Cup as well, just something to go in the cabinet please!

Kevin Day
47 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:39:22
Ross,

Why is it increasingly likely Martinez will get the gig? I'm not saying your wrong, but he's been interviewed twice now, and still no announcement... seems to me BK isn't really too sure, that's what the silence says to me anyway.

I feel the longer there is no announcement, the greater the chance it won't be Martinez, even his odds are slightly longer now compared to this morning.

Jay Harris
48 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:43:39
I think Nev is spot on.

The way to become a top 4 club is to think like a top 4 club.

Bill reckons he's the best saleman EFC have got so why couldnt he persuade the likes of Pellegrini, Hiddink, Riijkard to take on a challenge.

After all a top manager would close the gap between the haves and the have nots.

IMO Martinez is a disaster waiting to happen. 4 years flirting with relegation. I could understand one or maybe 2 seasons while he imposed his abaility but to take a club down with record goals against is not a CV for a potential top class manager.

David Midgley
49 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:22:44
What about Ralf as manager with Renee Muelensteen as first team coach. He was first team coach at ManU. for many years so is used to good football and putting winning combinations together and is very familiar with the premier league.
The downside to Pereira would be his lack of English and therefore lack of communication[even the best interpreters loose something in translation, and they couldn't pass on his enthusiasm ]

The German football model of late seems to be quite good, strong,reliable, attractive and successfull. Just look at their cars.

Ralf could instill his style and phlosophy and Renee could implement it. Who knows ,with Ralf on the bridge and Renee helping to steer could the "S.S.Everton" go places?

It's just a thought .
It's just a thought

Tony Marsh
50 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:50:00
MK @172

I believe something's not right because it's common knowledge in certain circles that Pip was offered the job but was reluctant to take it at the time. Remember Pip said he had to go away and make some important decisions with his family. Meanwhile, SAF comes out of nowhere to drop a pearl of wisdom about young managers should cut their teeth in lower leagues before taking jobs in the Premier League??? Who was that aimed at?

Now, a month after DM slung his hook, we still don't have a manager although every man and his dog have had a love-in with Bill. Who is Bill waiting for?

The names being tossed around by Evertonians are laughable even if they have had interviews as we don't have money. Bill wouldn't appoint anyone who wasn't a Yes-man, Phil Neal-type, so there's no chance of the Porto guy or the German guy coming here.

I hope I am wrong and I can't help being confused either. It is Kenwright we are talking about here and with him anything is possible, as you well know...

John Gee
51 Posted 01/06/2013 at 21:22:45
Tony Marsh, I just so happen to have some spare tar and a sack full of feathers... it's either you or BK!

Maybe it's impatience, but I'm starting to see this TM's way. Something is starting to look a bit stage managed and I can't quite put my finger on what it is.

As for Sir Southall, I'd hazard a guess that he's saying he wants the club to show some ambition by appointing a guy who aspires to win the league rather than a guy who has aspired to stay in it. And failing that, an internal appointment because there are guys there who 'get' the club and have seen things pre-Fergie's bitch.

Ross Edwards
52 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:05:30
"Renee Mulensteen"

I wouldn't mind Renee Zellweger to be honest..

Paul Dark
53 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:04:39
As always, Sir Neville is on the button. Thank God he isn't a pathetic apologist, like so many.

Martinez would be a really terrible appointment.

Remember: Sir Howard has already spoken against Martinez.

Weighty voices ...

Kevin Tully
54 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:08:54
John#192 - After all the shit BK has had (all deserved BTW) I think he is trying to show he is being incredibly thorough in this particular process. More a bit of PR than anything else. I think Martinez is nailed on.
Colin Glassar
55 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:10:35
I love big nev but on this I disagree. The board don't have any ambition, on this we an all agree but to say we should promote from within is insane. Neither Stubbs, Dunc or Weir have any managerial experience. And if it's not the likes of Martinez, pereira or ragsisname, who then? Mourinho? Guardiola? SAF?
I'd take the FA cup next season plus top 5 as a sign of solid progress.
John Gee
56 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:16:03
Kevin Tully,

Glass half full: BK is being thorough.

Glass half empty: BK is being thorough but more as a PR exercise.

Glass half full (of piss): It's Neville and we all know it.

Jesus! Will somebody call my nurse for me please? I can't take it anymore!

Mark Stone
57 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:04:02
Tony Marsh ... Who would you like to see appointed, out of interest?

Jay Harris - I tend to disagree. The way to become a top 4 club is to SPEND like a top 4 club. When you've done that, get the right manager and you've got half a chance.
Kevin 127 - Colin Harvey, Dave Watson (not suggesting either worked out well though!)

Chris Regan
58 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:06:36
Southall is right, we can't think small here, Moyes put the team in a much better position, but the board have not done the same financially. They use the limitations of the ground as an excuse for not overcoming the financial barriers we face. They have stripped assets from the club and are commercially bereft. Kenwright gives the 24/7 story to anyone who will listen. Why would a billionaire want Everton? For our history? A return on investment? A play thing? I don't know but one thing strikes me is that the board and senior managers at the club have to make the club attractive on the pitch an commercially. Players will come and go, so will managers they are responsible for the league and cups but it is the board who are responsible for the finances. One trophy in 1995, 18 years ago reflects a poor return. During this time Everton has been bypassed to such an extent that the board like to use the club's and their lack of finances to paint us as plucky underdogs. Yet there is a problem with this perception they hide behind; it is called our history. That tells no lies. Everton is no poison chalice. Too many titles, trophies and years in the top flight attest to that. We are Everton! Forget the rest.
David Booth
59 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:32:09
Am I the only Evertonian who clings to the hope that Laudrup may still, yet, emerge from all this as our man?

None of the above (on any thread), fill me with great hope and expectation.

And Martinez leaves me devoid of either.

Paul Smith
60 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:32:13
I think Big Nev is being a bit too harsh on Martinez but that's his opinion. However, I believe the manager will only be as ambitious as the board allow when all is said and done.
Andrew Ellams
61 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:32:49
I am in the middle of Nev's book right now and he comes across as a real 'I know more than everybody else' sort of bloke. An internal appointment would be the biggest risk of all and I don't think that is Bill's style.

Ross, Rene Zellwegger? I reckon you have been getting a bit over excited with chatting to the lovely Sharon this week.

Derek Thomas
62 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:45:28
From a fans point of view looking through very blue tinted glasses. Nev is spot on. The Club may have ditched the motto, but if you cut Nev in half like a stick of rock ( big ask nowadays ) he would have 4 letters running through him... and it won't be RHYL, it will be

NSNO.

Bill will do, in no particular order, what is best for Bill, what he can get away with, what ' looks ' good for his ( self ) Image

Oh and if we are really lucky what is good for the Club.

He has already fucked up... for the above reasons, the biggest decision in the Clubs History since 1892... The Kings Dock.

Don't fuck up the 2nd biggest Bill.

David Holroyd
63 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:55:33
Has Kenwright spoken to Moyes about who should be the next Everton manager.After all Moyes said he would help Kenwright chose if asked. I think he would of said Neville.Roll on Monday or Tuesday put us out of our misery.
Sam Hoare
64 Posted 01/06/2013 at 22:57:28
Very difficult to know exactly what is going on behind the scenes. No-one on here really knows, not even Tony Marsh. Hopefully this lull is just BK showing some due diligence and trying to make sure he has got the right man.

I think Martinez will be our manager by the end of Wednesday. Not my first choice but better than some of the alternatives I reckon.

Jamie Barlow
65 Posted 01/06/2013 at 23:14:51
I just hope he doesn't have a Tony Marsh moment and offer it to Neville before he can talk himself out of it.

You keep moaning about Bill taking his time and for him choose who he thinks is the right man straight away. To stop fucking about. Didn't you think Neville was a good choice for a moment Tony?

Kevin Tully
66 Posted 01/06/2013 at 23:11:56
Mark 206 - I think Watson was just a caretaker for a while? Harvey was HK's no.2 as Round is now, the other ex blues who have been interviewed are all in fairly minor roles at the club ( under 21's, academy etc)

The only reason they are being considered is because they are ex-players. This is no time for sentiment.

David Pearl
67 Posted 02/06/2013 at 01:29:35
Big Nev has the right idea. We don't want to merely survive or exist we want, need and deserve to be challenging. The premier league is unfair these days with the gap in resources between clubs. Thankfully our best 11 can beat any of these billion pound teams; so we don't need a lot of money. What we need is 3 or 4 good buys and a new manager with a vision and high ambitions. I'd say a striker first - Negredo scored 4 today...

(my pick... Rangnick by a street).

Phil Bellis
68 Posted 02/06/2013 at 01:49:15
"At the end of the day, if you wanna leave a club like Everton, I say good riddance to you, mate."

Reminds me of George Best's remark: "Anyone who doesn't want to play for Everton, doesn't want to play football."

Jackie Barry
69 Posted 02/06/2013 at 02:59:05
I normally agree with Big Nev but I think he has lost the plot slightly here. Hiring from within shows the club has more ambition than hiring Martinez, a guy that has won something over people who have never managed before and have won absolutely zilch? Hmmmm....
Patrick Murphy
70 Posted 02/06/2013 at 03:04:42
Just read this article in SB Nation,The piece is reporting that Napoli owner Aurelio De Laurentiis is hoping to expand his empire and purchase an English club. In a list of clubs that are available that even the likes of Leeds and Sheffield Wednesday are more attractive than Everton, admittedly due to the asking price.

When the Pozzo family took over Watford in a similar deal, the club wasn't profitable and had considerable debt — it wasn't quite one of the cases of Premier League clubs being sold for the grand total of one pound, but it wasn't far away, either. With no decent-sized clubs in such a situation currently — considering Kenwright's odd management of Everton — then it seems an alternative approach will have to be taken by De Laurentiis.

It looks like our lofty ambitions will have to take a back seat for a little while longer.

http://www.sbnation.com/soccer/2013/6/1/4386928/leeds-united-everton-aureliano-de-laurentiis

Vijay Nair
71 Posted 02/06/2013 at 03:29:05
David (188)...This old nugget has been brought up before.. Pereira speaks fluent English.
Steven Telford
72 Posted 02/06/2013 at 05:58:03
If the stuff about Stubbs "advising" Rooney to move on, and making a few quid out of it himself is true, then Kenwright should have kicked stubs out long ago.
Honestly, is there any solid truth in that? or just past rumour?
If so, I lost all respect for stubs
Steven Telford
73 Posted 02/06/2013 at 06:07:25
Big Nev is way off. Promoting within would be a huge lack of ambition.
And lets not forget, he did himself spit the dummy out as a player, if the Bosman rule had been around he would have walked.
Jim Harrison
74 Posted 02/06/2013 at 01:55:48
I have to say I agree with him. The Everton job is a big one. Top six, not far outside of CL qualification, a good pay cheque, a good squad with valuable players that could be sold to refresh an ageing group of players, a patient chairman, great fans, apparently 10 million in the transfer kitty. And for the history buffs, the fourth most successful club in English football history. Why do we need to piss about with a guy who has just relegated a team when there are more successful candidates available? Oh yeah, he plays attacking football........So does Hollaway! And he would be worth the wages just for his interview!
Steve Brown
75 Posted 02/06/2013 at 08:16:59
When did a premier league club last promote someone from within with success, least of all when the person had not managed before? Been wracking my brains but can't think of a recent example? Can anyone come up with someone?

Just don't think the pressures of the permiership really allow managers to grow into the job these days.

Steve Brown
76 Posted 02/06/2013 at 08:25:52
I think a foreign coach will be appointed. In which case it has to be someone with a track record of league success. That counts RM out IMO as his premiership managerial record is really poor - his fantastic cup win puts him in the same boat as McLeish, Maclaren etc and we wouldn't entertain them as candidates.

So logic says Pereira or Rangnick so that means with BK deciding it will be Stubbs, Weir or Neville.

Peter Foy
77 Posted 02/06/2013 at 08:24:01
Jim, who told you there was 10m in the transfer kitty?
Why do you believe that?
Paul Andrews
78 Posted 02/06/2013 at 08:58:07
Steve Brown,

Best not to use "logic" and our chairman in the same sentence.

Paul Gladwell
79 Posted 02/06/2013 at 09:04:34
Sorry but an FA cup win comes before the top four in my eyes, 1984 final will stay with me forever, finishing fourth wont.
Derek Thomas
80 Posted 02/06/2013 at 09:09:02
Paul I agree, up to a point. The FA Cup is about Glory, or it was in 84.

It used to be part of the ' Double', the Holy Grail of footy but it has now been sadly devalued and marginalised to an also ran, with a token Europa place like the even worse micky mouse League Cup.

Champions League or bust is the way now

Steven Telford
81 Posted 02/06/2013 at 09:56:32

In terms of what it says about the quality of a team, FA cup does not touch the significance of regularly qualifying for the champions league.

You can win cups with luck, leagues are won with consistency
Leagues count much more.

Paul Ellam
82 Posted 02/06/2013 at 09:49:30
I understand what Southall is saying about the FA cup (and league cup) being the only thing on offer for the time being. I think the league title is just too big a step for us without huge cash investment and I for one would settle for mid-table and a trophy right now!!! Trophies get remembered, league positions (unless first) don't
John Crawley
83 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:08:10
I agree with the sentiments that Big Nev is expressing. In the situation we are in we should be trying to get a proven winner. Out of the remaining 3 candidates its Pereira for me. From all that I have read and seen he seems to be an excellent coach who is very good at setting his teams up to play a high pressure, style of attacking football. He's also fairly young so you would think his best days as a manager are still to come. I also like the fact that he's fairly unassuming and his strengths are on the coaching side.
Steve Brown
84 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:16:21
Paul 282, would agree if winning the FA Cup earned you a place in the CL. without that it has to be top 4 and the CL simply because of the revenue it brings.
Thomas Windsor
85 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:18:23
The Everton job is going to be very hard for any manager without proper funds.

I love Southall but I think he is wrong here. Today you don't win the league – you buy it!

Paul Gladwell
86 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:30:53
I agree to an extent lads but given the choice finishing 5th next season and winning the cup or finishing fourth and not I know what I would take.
I know we have to break the top four and winning a cup first can set the mentality right to do that, that 84 Cup win and the Milk Cup defeat against the shite changed the whole thinking of everyone at the club and also the fans.
After that season we all thought "fuck it we are the best now" and what happenend the following season.
Mark Eaton
87 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:45:16
For those of us who think that this is still a 3 horse race:

How might the board approach a decision clinically?

One way might be to conduct some form of risk assessment. For anyone who has the misfortune to have to do these as part of their job will know that they are dullard aren’t they?!

So which manager is the riskiest proposition? Whose record might we look back at in a few months and say “well, the signs were there.”

There are positives to each of the 3 so let’s have a brief look at the main negatives:

Martinez : Previous Premier League relegation battles, 1 Premier League relegation, no experience of managing a team in the top half of a top division.

Rangnick: Has had run in’s with previous club boardrooms, so previous record contains sackings and has also quit positions. No Premier League experience.

Pereira: No experience managing outside Portugal. Not sure whether he wasn't offered a new contract at Porto or whether he was stalling.

I am coming over increasingly to the thoughts that this is the approach that Bill and the board might take. We know that there are risks to any appointment and they will be concerned that if it does go belly up, then how can they cover themselves?

The new manager having Everton DNA, building a legacy, progressing us to be top 4 would obviously be great. However, Bill has possibly the biggest decision he (or the club) has ever had to make and I believe that firstly he will want to be able to say if it went wrong; “well, at the time we chose the manager who had the least risk.” He could apply the line of “I believed that he had Everton DNA, or I thought he had the best plans/potential” to any of the 3.

Many have said Pereira is a risky appointment, but I can’t really see that he is more risky than Martinez or Rangnick.


Drew Shortis
88 Posted 02/06/2013 at 11:06:03
I agree that we should be ambitious. I think its a little simplistic to suggest that if someone has won a league somewhere they would be able to do the same with us. Martinez is a winner. He has experienced cup wins and promotions as a player and won league titles (L1) and the FA Cup as a manager. I was watching a You Tube video of his best goals and he was playing for Wigan in League 2 with a stadium even emptier than it was this season. Just goes to show what a great job he did at Wigan, a team with a tiny fan base and in the past few years tiny finances.

I'm certainly not anti Pereira, Rangnick or Solskjaer. I just believe Roberto would bring so many extra possitive traits to the club!

Eugene Ruane
89 Posted 02/06/2013 at 10:49:54
Anyone remember when, under Clough, Forest came up from the old second Division and won the league?

We had them (I think) first game (or very early in the season).

My memory is woeful (and I can't be arsed googling everything) but I think they put three past us.

That they went on to win the title straight from being promoted was incredible at the time, specially when you got a good look at them (imagine Hull winning the PL next season)

What was even odder was it looked (certainly to me) like they had puddin's, old fellers and none-stars all over the park.

Most of the teams in the 'top-flight' then would have had teams that 'on paper' looked much better.

Clough and Taylor were the difference.

To be fair, things were more even (fair) back then in terms of team's players.

No club could just go and buy two teams of top internationals so the team that won the league couldn't rely on money to win them trophies.

Teams that won stuff had coached their teams well, figured out the opposition but above all, genuine belief had been instilled.

This is where the likes of Clough, Shankly and Revie did their thing.

SO much of what they did was about belief.

It's probably not possible to win the title this way now as certain teams can afford to have fantastic players in EVERY position.

Nevertheless, I think instilling belief is a bit of a lost art.

Everton under Moyes showed we could physically and actually beat Chelsea and Utd, but the belief never appeared to be there that we could do it regularly (or away).

Southall is (as we know) an unusual character.

He refreshingly says what's on his mind and is one of the few out there who genuinely doesn't appear to give a fuck what (other) people think.

So here's the pitch.

We have goalkeeping coaches and striker coaches - what about a belief coach?

Someone in 'there' to constantly be (one for the teenagers) 'bigging up' players and giving next weeks opposition down the banks.

I nominate Nev.

Peter Bell
90 Posted 02/06/2013 at 11:41:53
Eugene, yes you are right, first game of the season at Goodison, sunny day and we got battered by newly promoted Nottingham Forest. 3 -1

Clough was the master of motivation and made his players feel they were unbeatable when they walked on the pitch. They went on to stroll the league, then two European Cups, which is why the RS hated them. Knocked them off their perch long before SAF came along.

Christine Foster
91 Posted 02/06/2013 at 11:59:30
Can't shake the felling that we are going through the motions. Interview likely candidates to show willing but the one from within has already been selected. All adds to the theatre and suspense, only to find that, you know what, we have the right man in the club already.

None of the external candidates are British or industrial, or back to our roots. Maybe I am being too cynical.. But it's not got a ring of sincerity about the whole thing.

Paul Andrews
92 Posted 02/06/2013 at 11:59:59
Eugene,
I agree 100% with your point re us beating Utd & Chelsea now and again.
I had similar conversation yesterday with another poster re Moyes tactical nous when up against good coaches.
In my opinion we beat them sides because Moyes got them "up for it",and on the occasion we did that the crowd got right behind the team and it had a knock on effect,not because of any tactical genius Moyes showed.
Mark Eaton
93 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:02:35
If Big Nev is worried about a lack of ambition, then no worries:

'One day I will win the Champions League '- Vítor Pereira

Link to new article:

http://www.abola.pt/nnh/ver.aspx?id=405960

Let's hope it is with us!!

Phil Bellis
94 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:04:40
Nev, like Ball, Ratcliffe, Reid et al is of the "Let's get out there and twat `em" school
Like said, above, as proved by Clough and Kendall, you can manage and motivate decent players to perform far greater as a team than the sum of their individul talents

Cloughies early teams certainly did resemble something out of a Vicor/Valiant strip - a real Legge's 11 hotchpotch of has-beens and never-heard-ofs
I remember when we first saw John Roberson; I'd not seen a more roly-poly footballer since the old newsreels of Puskas in the 50s

Colin Wainwright
95 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:13:33
"Can't shake the felling that we are going through the motions. Interview likely candidates to show willing but the one from within has already been selected."

I feel exactly the same way Christine. It's gonna be PN, isn't it?

Eugene Ruane
96 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:18:45
Mark (340) - From what I can gather, a line of that is (something like)..

"I believe that Porto is a part of my way. After? Wherever where God wants me to take"

I wonder if he is aware of the 70s St End chant "Jesus Christ was an Evertonian"

Eugene Ruane
97 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:22:08
Colin (343) - "I feel exactly the same way Christine. It's gonna be PN, isn't it?"

That would certainly be 'the Everton way' Colin.

ie: Not enough just to give us disappointment, first something better is dangled, then whipped away at the last minute, THEN we get disappointment.

Paul Gladwell
98 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:22:58
Regarding Moyes, it will be interesting to see if he brings everyone back for a corner at Utd, I bet their fans won't like that considering the amount of goals they score down the years breaking away from a corner.
Mark Eaton
99 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:30:38
Eugene - if that's the case, then I hope God wants to take him him to a ground somewhere near ........................... St. Luke's?

Vitor always can pop in there for a cup of tea before the match

Mark Frere
100 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:27:39
Good old Big Nev, his hearts in the right place but he somehow thinks we're still Everton of 1984-1987. Them days were wasted in terms of progressing our club because of the Heysel disaster, we had the chance of establishing our club as a global brand by winning European trophies and becoming the dominent force in Europe.

A shambles of a board also missed the boat by not investing in goodison or finding us a state of the art new stadium, or investing in quality players.

Like iv'e said Nev's heart is in the right place but he's talking mostly nonsense. Next he'l be giving clinically obese people advice on how to get back into shape.

The only way we are going to get back to the glory days is: if a rich arab agrees to buy everton for a ridiculous sum of money which our board are asking for

Howard Rowles
101 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:59:36
Neville Southall is a legend and he is right. I for one am sick of this patronising view of Everton in the media: we should be winning the league, we are big enough and Nev is right we (I don't!) accept 7th as a good season. Managers got sacked for that in the 70s – ask Billy Bingham.
Eugene Ruane
102 Posted 02/06/2013 at 12:52:06
Mark (354) - "The only way we are going to get back to the glory days is: if a rich arab agrees to buy everton for a ridiculous sum of money which our board are asking for".

You're almost certainly right, but I don't think that necessarily means Nev is wrong.

I don't simply see his comments as that of an old (successful) pro thinking "We did it, why can't they do it now?"

His words were a bit of a ramble but he's spot on re 'the club' not entertaining anything other than first place.

It doesn't mean you'll GET first place but it also doesn't mean accepting/stating all this (Moyes/Neville) "For Everton to be in the top eight is an achievement" shite.

We've seen the quote a million times so I'll go for a million and one.

"Show me a good loser and I'll show you a loser"

Mark Frere
103 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:09:25
Eugene, Big Nev is saying the FA cup isn't enough for Everton fans, well I think me and most of the other Everton fans would be just satisfied with winning the League cup. Its been 18 years since our last trophy and any trophy will do.

Big Nev is almost saying we should be challenging for the PL and CL trophy, thats the impression I got

Howard Rowles
104 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:02:41
Regarding Moyes, it will be interesting to see if he brings everyone back for a corner at Man Utd,

LMAO he will! Moyes will do fuck all at United.

Eugene Ruane
105 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:18:55
Mark (361) - I too would do cartwheels if we won the League Cup and agree completely, any trophy would do.

When I listened to Nev, I was thinking 'You're rambling a bit".

However (as was described in the great Aussie comedy 'The Castle') I feel it was about 'the vibe'.

Which for me was (or appeared to be) 'You're Everton - believe you can be first'.

As I say, buying into this, 100%, guarantees nothing but if 'the club' genuinely approached everything with this attitude, my guess is, one way or another, we'd all feel better about things.

Just my opinion, appreciate there's no right or wrong with subjects like this.

Patrick Murphy
106 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:25:11
Mark that is exactly where Everton should be challenging for the PL and the CL and they would be if we had people at the club who had imagination and ambition. I know money is the key, but we have not gone out there and looked for money, our sponsorships are all over the place we get little or no money from the kits. Never in the long history of our club has it been so far off challenging at the high end of the table for so long. If you know any older Man U fans ask them where they expect a club like Everton to be and it isn't messing about with 8th place and being without a trophy or indeed a top striker for 18 years. This PL Everton is what you might Everton Lite it looks the same as the real Everton but it isn't it's a cheaper version of it and we just have to bear with it and hope somehow that something turns up to see the real Everton emerge from its slumber.

Derek Thomas
107 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:15:10
Eugene; I remember the Forest game, it was the 1st game of the season and they played us off the park, we didn't get a kick, we were chasing shadows. I must admit that at the time we weren't any great shakes ourselves.

But your point is valid. Not only do we have no Balls or Reids or leaders on the field. We have armband wearers, but no Capts. ( Moyes doesn't like tall big gobbed poppies ?? ) We have no deep down self belief Vs the old sky 4, Spurs? just like us only in Harringay, City all fur coat and no knickers, big club my arse, I remember when they were in the 3rd div...like Villa.

Shankly was a master at ' these are shite lads, get into them' He would then tell them after the game ( anderlect )You've just beaten one of the top sides in Europe...See, you ARE good and you CAN do it to any one.

I think it's called management... as opposed to coaching, thats just footy

David Sheen
108 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:45:16
For Everton to get anywhere near winning the league title, then it's clear that we need a new chairman, board, and investment.

Southall would have been better off saying exactly that, rather than saying the owners lack ambition.

Eugene Ruane
109 Posted 02/06/2013 at 13:54:27
David (369) - "For Everton to get anywhere near winning the league title, then it's clear that we need a new chairman, board, and investment"

Hard to disagree with that, but the harsh and horrible reality is, the chances of any of that happening are slim to none.

We simply have to work with what we have until a miracle happens.

And I believe (possibly like Southall), that even with the restrictions we have, a different attitude or 'mindset' COULD improve things.

It might be a cliché but if you think you're beaten, you probably are.

Certainly the Forest team I refer to could have very easily taken the attitude "Well, we've just won promotion, staying in the division will do"

The reason they didn't do that is because the man in charge had the attitude "Fuck you, it's 11 V 11 and my 11 will have more belief in themselves than yours"

Agree with Derek (366) that one or two leaders ON the park would be a good start.

Phil Martin
110 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:17:10
The club has lacked ambition since 1989. No investment in the ground and very little in the team has led us to this record of 1 trophy in 26 years. Short sighted running of the club and inept commercial activities over the last 25 years all equate to a lack of ambition to be the very best. Hiring Martinez or not will not rectify this.

All overseen by one man...our Bill

Patrick Murphy
111 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:17:57
For all those Shankly lovers on this site which team played the better football during the Sixties Caterick's Everton or Shankly's Liverpool, I never saw either so I can't comment, but I'm pretty sure I know what the answer is. Let's credit our own people who achieved things at club level, there must have been a lot more to Harry Catterick than being a disciplinarian.
Kevin Tully
112 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:32:35
FFS, The Sunday Times now saying Solskjaer now in the running even though B.K. hasn't met him yet!

Ray Roche
113 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:38:11
Patrick Murphy


Patrick, having watched both sides, us every match, them fairly often, I, and I'm trying to be neutral here, still think we played the better football. But the nucleus of the side were bought by Johnny Carey.
Catterick and Shankly were polar opposites. Shankly was the master of what is now spin, and could play the media with witty soundbites and get them on side. Catterick banned the cameras and the press, which is why we have a dearth of footage of our best sides, the 62-63 side, and in my opinion, the best ever, 69-70.

Frank Crewe
114 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:27:03
Arsenal have sold world class players, Van Persie, Fabregas, Nasri, etc, Liverpool look like they're going to lose Suarez, Spurs are desperate to keep Bale, Aston Villa are going to lose Benteke and Everton are seating on Fellaini and Baines.

Arsenal have a sixty thousand seat state of the art stadium yet have to sell their best players. The other clubs I've mentioned are in the same boat we are. Clubs with big histories but small bank accounts.

Now the fact is that a few million quids worth of investment isn't going to make a great deal of difference to how well we are doing. Any extra cash tends to go in inflated wages anyway in vain attempts to bribe good players to stay for one or two more seasons before the bugger off to bigger clubs.

Southall was fortunate enough to play in the one great side Everton have had since the 1960's. But football was a very different world then. Money didn't have the influence it has today.

We all want to see Everton do well but unless we get serious backing in the form of billions (millions just doesn't cut it anymore) then whomever the next manager is I would say all we can expect is more of the same. Decent finishes but no cigar.

BTW regardless of what Southall thinks I would like to win the FA Cup.

Patrick Murphy
115 Posted 02/06/2013 at 14:51:16
Thanks Ray many people who saw the 60s teams believe that 68-69 season saw some of the best football played by an Everton team, even though they didn't win anything and got knocked out in the Semi-Final of the FA Cup by Man City.
So Shankly was the Ian Holloway of the 1960s?
Eugene Ruane
116 Posted 02/06/2013 at 15:13:35
Patrick (373) - In an earlier post I stated - "This is where the likes of Clough, Shankly and Revie did their thing"

As (I think) I am the only one who mentioned Shanky, I must presume I'm the 'Shankly lover' you refer to.

I will simply say what a marvelous, insightful and well thought-out response.

However, for anyone who believes I might NOT be in love with the late Bill Shankly, consider the following.

The three managers I mention, re 'belief', didn't JUST win trophies.

They all took shit second division teams, with no real record of winning anything, or of being a real threat to anyone, and turned them into football super-powers.

What they did was, certainly at the beginning, almost all about belief.

When Shankly took over Liverpool, they were in the second division, they'd never won the FA Cup and they'd not long before been knocked out of the cup by none-league Worcester.

They were barely on the map and going nowhere fast.

Revie did the same at Leeds, a small team doing nothing.

And Clough at Forest who turned a 2nd division side into European champions..twice.

Who played better football in the 60s, us or Liverpool?

We did, but...what does that have to do with anything?

As Ray Roche says (377) Catterick inherited a more than decent team (one that had just finished higher up the league than we just have).

Sorry, don't see the relevance to what is (or was) being discussed.

Maybe you should start a thread 'Shankly, useless twat or hopeless fucker?"


Tony Marsh
117 Posted 02/06/2013 at 17:31:41
Eugene, why get sucked in? Don't you know David Moyes is the greatest manager that ever lived and still is. Man Utd fans are soon to see what an amazing football brain and tactician they have just signed for 6 years.

You see, Eugene, in the world of a Moyes Is God supporter, there can be no equal. Shankly, Clough, Revie, Paisley, etc — all shite. Even though Moyes hasn't won a Bollywasher in his entire career, he is still the Bee's Knees because he didn't get us relegated when we were certs to go down. Before the Ginger Genius, Everton were a YoYo club, up and down the league by the minutes???

The only people on this planet with less ambition than our board are certain sections of our fan base... And that's a fact!!!

Drew Shortis
118 Posted 02/06/2013 at 17:37:44
Talking about belief:
In 2007, Swansea contacted Martínez to offer him the position of manager. He accepted the offer and retired from playing, soon bringing success to the Swans. In his first full season, in 2007–08, he won the League One Manager of the Year Award as Swansea were crowned League One Champions, which took the club back to England's second-tier division after a 24-year absence. (from Wikipedia)

He left them for Wigan, but the footballing philosophy he left behind at Swansea set them on the path to becoming the team they are today. I think he should have stuck with Swansea as I see them as a bigger club than Wigan, but I think his association with Wigan and the fact that they were already in the Premier League must have swayed him.

Despite his dubious defensive record he managed to keep a small team (average attendance last year of 18,000) in a rugby town surrounded by major teems in the Premier League for three seasons and won the FA Cup for the first time in their history. They depart the League in a stable financial position (thanks to the parachute payments) with a decent squad and European Football to look forward to next season. He managed to keep them in the league when teams like West Ham, Newcastle, Wolves, Bolton, Blackburn, Birmingham and Portsmouth failed and this year finished above big spending QPR. He also managed Wigan at a time when their Chairman's business went under and his funding was severely curtailed.

To me this paints the picture of a manager who is able to instil belief in his teams and a manager who can get his team to punch above their weight by playing football the right way. Perhaps if he had played a more direct and physical style Wigan could have been harder to beat, but he stuck to his beliefs and the Wigan faithful were behind him all the way (as far as I'm aware). I certainly don't recall angry fans with Martinez out placards over the past few seasons.

Everton has twice the average attendance as Wigan and a much larger wage budget as well as a squad that regularly finishes in the top six or seven. He would also be coming to a club who's fans are desperate for a manager who will play a faster paced attacking game. If he can instil the belief in our squad in the same way as he did in the Wigan team that won at Wembley we could push on and actually turn all the nice media comments about plucky little Everton into silverware!

Sorry to keep banging on about RM, but I feel some of the negative comments are unjustified considering what he had to work with at Wigan.

Paul Smith
119 Posted 02/06/2013 at 18:07:12
Steve 260, Stubbs probably advised Rooney on Kenwright's say-so... that's how a conspiracy works, mate.
Patrick Murphy
120 Posted 02/06/2013 at 18:06:24
Eugene you will find that a certain Mr Shankly is mentioned often in relation to many things on this site mostly by people who can't spell his name properly.. I can't judge him on his ability or what he gave to his club but whenever the 60s are mentioned he always gets a shout as does Busby and Revie. So are we saying that anybody could have managed Everton in the 60s? I think that Catterick gets a rough deal from Evertonians and from the media, he's often the forgotten man as is incidentally Howard Kendall. I'm not certain but I think that Everton either won more games or attained more points than any other top flight team during the 60s. I neither admire Bill Shankly nor despise the man, I only started going to Goodison when he was nearly retired from the Dark Side.

I am sorry you took umbridge but it wasn't aimed at you personally if it was I would have referred to your post directly.

Kevin Tully
121 Posted 02/06/2013 at 18:21:22
Drew, I agree, people are focusing purely on the relegation this season (by 3 points BTW) and also forget he is only 39. I think the last fella took charge of us when he was 39, and compare the two mangers achievements.

If maybe Allardyce or Pulis had taken charge of Wigan last season, they probably could have kept them up, but not won a Cup, so are they better managers?

Sometimes, you have to look beyond one season, and what he may do in the future. I have been pleading for years for our manager to show some imagination, and not to be so predictable. I don't think Martinez lacks in either department. He is an intelligent man, and has an awful lot more to offer than people give him credit for.

Gary Reeves
122 Posted 02/06/2013 at 21:02:46
Southall talks shite,he really does. It frightens me that people are taken in by him,and if you look into his eyes,he doesn't even care - He says things out of devillment!
I quote "someone who's won things. Someone from within the club". . . ????
Knobhead. Don't be taken in!
Steven Telford
123 Posted 02/06/2013 at 21:47:36
Stubbs, Weir or Neville
........... I feel ill from the thought.
Mark Pierpoint
124 Posted 02/06/2013 at 22:12:00
Got to agree with Gary. His constant bleating is really getting on my nerves now. It seems to me that the guy has an axe to grind over something else (maybe he is unhappy at not having a role within the club a la Sharpe?)

Either way I find what he says inconsistent drivel. I don't think I have heard him say anything sensible. Honest.

John Nugent
125 Posted 02/06/2013 at 23:27:54
Southall vs Robbie Savage

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p019vzl4

Anthony Lamb
126 Posted 02/06/2013 at 23:14:12
Perhaps Neville Southall - great goalkeeper though he was - would have better employed his brains by explaining to Evertonians who have never played the professional game at the top level just how he thinks Everton can move from where they are now to becoming Champions of England and competing successfully in the Champions League. If I read him correctly he suggests by appointing a manager "who knows what the fans want"! Is this man for real? It seems he is another example of someone who could play the game magnificently but really hasn't a clue as to the wider issues.
Eugene Ruane
127 Posted 02/06/2013 at 23:33:20
Gary Reeves (505) Neville Southall - "nobhead"

Yep, next time I'm looking to be enlightened on some aspect of Everton, I'll be looking REEEEEEAL close for your 'analysis'.

Dolt.

Mark Pierpoint (521) - "His constant bleating is really getting on my nerves now"

Yeah it's practically every day isn't it, more or less relentless.

Grow up, the man is an Everton legend who WAS ASKED his opinion and gave it - honestly.

Shame he's not an expert radio presenter and entirely consistent but his message ultimately was clear to anyone NOT looking to pick holes.

"It seems to me the guy has an axe to grind"

I agree - what happened, did he fuck you off for an autograph?

Mark Frere
128 Posted 03/06/2013 at 00:14:10
Well said Eugene, I can't believe some of the abuse aimed at southall there. Big Nev is the greatest GK iv'e ever seen and i'm not just talking about Evertons greatest, I mean greatest of any GK Iv'e ever seen. That's not me being biased, I wouldn't say the same thing about any other Everton player playing in any other position.

I didn't agree with lots about what he said, but I think its discracefull the way some of the people on here are trying to portray him

Peter Knight
129 Posted 03/06/2013 at 00:34:11
I think Martinez is the best man for the job the way Everton are run, with no money to operate. The last four years he has a nett spend of£12 Million and has lost Valencia, Cattermole, N'Zogbia, Moses, for £40 Million, Diame and Rodallega on free transfers. He has McCarthy, McArthur, McManaman, Maloney & Kone – all worth good money in the transfer market – they cost maybe £5 Million.

For Wigan, beating Man City in the final will be a memory the fans will never forget. But being in the Premier League with no chance of winning it is a sad state of the league – and this the case for most teams.

Jason Lam
130 Posted 03/06/2013 at 03:23:12
I play striker most of the part but any outfield position is fine. Those who play goalie are stuck there cos they're crap. But Southall is my fav Everton player and some of the stuff he pulls off even my cat is left gobsmacked. He's alright and entitled to spouting bollocks. So there.
Gary Reeves
131 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:02:28
Yeah Eugene,Southall is a knobhead. I stand by that,and I don't really care for his latest inputs.
"We need someone who's gonna put in £50m." Do we?. . Thanks for that Nev. Didn't think of that one!
He was on Soccer AM recently and it struck me that he was the worst type of fool - the one that doesn't know it! He stated that Christiano Ronaldo was rubbish,and that he couldn't watch games in which he played - because he was like a girl. Well I wouldn't mind eleven girls like that at Everton!
Keep to the stand-up on TalkSport Nev,and stop winding up your fellow fools. . Knobhead
Susong Hermawan
132 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:18:48
Yah, thats right Big Nev, RM will prefer 'relegation style of play'. Haha!
Eugene Ruane
133 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:20:51
Gary Reeve (605) - "He was on Soccer AM recently and it struck me that he was the worst type of fool - the one that doesn't know it!"

I think I'll just leave that hanging there.

By way of an argument, I can't top it.

Gary Reeves
134 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:22:20
Oh,and Eugene,you can keep your eye on my Posts with pleasure - for I am the voice of reason,ha! Bring it on.
On the subjects of Legends,I'll be the judge of that thank you very much. I'll use my own intuition and summation to decide who's a legend (or no)t,in my own eyes. You keep your Legends to yourself. (My Old Fella,said Alex Young would always be going missing,in games,but there you go! - "one man's Legend,etc....")
Personally my Southall recollections have a huge chapter where he's sitting on a post at half-time against Leeds.
Eugene Ruane
135 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:45:50
Gary (611) - "I'll be the judge of that thank you very much. I'll use my own intuition and summation to decide who's a legend (or no)t,in my own eyes".

If this is the same 'intuition and summation' (?) you use to to hit 'space' and to decide where to put a comma, you're fucked.

I give you your own words - "the worst type of fool - the one that doesn't know it!"

Mark Eaton
136 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:52:59
I wouldn't care if Big Nev also thought that Elvis Presley should be our next manager and that Lord Lucan should be his assistant.

Anyone can let their tongue run away on occasions and throw a strop. In this case he is just wearing his heart on his sleeve.

LEGEND.

Kevin Hudson
137 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:48:57
I think one thing you can say about Southall is that he will give it to you straight. He won't sugar-coat, nor will he toe the Kenwright/ Elstone faux misty-eyed/ corporate-speak.

Ratcliffe was also a touch critical over EFC board sitting on their hands over DM's contract; either not securing compensation or having an immediate successor already in place.

I think it's positive that these two Titans speak their mind, as Big Nev did so eloquently over the badge fiasco, as it comes from a place of genuine Evertonianism.

Gary Reeves
138 Posted 03/06/2013 at 09:57:52
Ooooh Eugene! Very unimpressive reply. Comma/space misplaced eh?
What was your impression of that Leeds incident? Let us know,and I'll decide if I value your opinion.
George McKane
139 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:02:49
Take it easy on each other. Its a debate. it's opinion.

Southall was the greatest goalkeeper I saw at Everton - - from 1959 - - Young may have gone missing- - I guess Pele did a few games - still a Legend to many and me certainly - - some people used to hate Alan Ball for his arrogance including some players I knew - - but still - - they can be Legends - - I heard Southall on Radio 5 and he shut Savage up very early and straight - - I used to listen to 606 but now I turn off when Savage comes on but I listened on Sat/Sun because it was from The Arena - - heard Peter Reid as well - - one of my Legends certainly - - played The Souse game - - talked a lot about going on the booze - - still a Legend with me as a player.

Keep cool gang - - and keep cosmic - - George

Paul Gladwell
140 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:10:55
What do want, someone who wont say boo to a goose, someone who shouts lies about one man and his dog or that `real Everton fans love the new badge` so not to rock the boat, or someone who asks questions that the fans want answering? yes he can talk shite, but he also says things we want to hear and given his high profile that is what we need with a gobshite lying board we have.
Brian Denton
141 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:12:07
Kevin (615)

"I think it's positive that these two Titans speak their mind"

I presume you're talking about Eugene and Gary................?

Chris Leyland
142 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:05:08
Gary Reeves, remember that you simply aren't allowed to misplace commas and get spacing wrong as this allows someone to pick up on these errors rather than focus on the substance of the issues at hand. However, it is perfectly acceptable to use capital LETTERS for parts of your postings as this SOMEHOW MAKES THEM more important.
Eugene Ruane
143 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:10:21
Exactly Kevin (616) - Neville Southall WAS ASKED his opinion.

He is NOT a professional radio presenter and talks the way many of us do about Everton, with a passion and a desire to see us do better.

It's funny, many have analysed his every word pointing out his inconsistencies, but if you read THEIR posts, much of it is garbled nonsense devoid of punctuation (see G,a,r,y R,e,e,v,e)

Remember, Southall is thinking on the spot, TW posters have time to correct

George (621), I'm happy to 'take it easy'

However when someone who thinks a comma goes after every word, starts referring to an Everton Legend as a 'knobhead', saying fuck all isn't (for me) an option.

Brian Denton
144 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:19:49
Chris (624) I think Eugene's use of capitals is to emphasise, rather than make him more important. In the post above, the key point Eugene wanted to get across was that Neville was asked his opinion (rather than volunteered that opinion off his own bat). Anyway, Eugene is more than capable of looking after himself, so I won't say any more about that.

Punctuation is important though; if people misspell and mispunctuate, other people (however unfairly) will suspect that the person making the post has a similar indiscipline in his/her thought processes. And will discount the opinion accordingly. It's the same wider political/social argument that says spelling and punctuation are unimportant, so why bother with them? Only you will find that the schools and employers which turn out the powerful people in our society think very differently. There's a reason for that.

Steve Jones
145 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:21:05
You missed out a couple of comma's in your first sentence Chris!

grins.

Michael Brien
146 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:21:09
What exactly is Neville Southall's managerial record ? As the words " lack of ambition" were used to have a dig at the club, I wondered could those words be also applied to Neville's managerial career.?Great player yes but that does't mean great at everything else and that we should hang on his every word.
Eugene Ruane
147 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:37:40
Michael (633) - "What exactly is Neville Southall's managerial record?"

Not much.......but more than Stubbs

Chris Leyland (624) - Aaaaahh what happened?

Did I give you down the banks in the past?

Hey, want to learn something? (guessing "NO!!....NEVER!!")

Using capital letters for emphasis is something that has been used in literature since the first words were printed.

Maybe if you'd read a bit more, you'd have discover this for yourself.

Seriously, if the best you can do is to compare a perfectly legitimate use of caps for emphasis, to completely fucked incomprehensible gibberish, you just make yourself look a twat (and a very desperate one at that).

Gary Reeves
148 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:32:26
Eugene,you still didn't give your views on the Leeds game. How can you throw Southall into the "Legends" bracket without consideration,to one of his defining moments at Goodison? Was he right or wrong,arrogant,honest,inconsiderate,disloyal?

I'm all ears

Patrick Murphy
149 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:34:25
The one thing that Heavy Bevvy Nevvy said during his knockabout with Robbie Savage was why do players bother if they don't believe they can win the league. I would rather listen to what somebody like Big Nev has to say than what the child-like Savage has to say. Big Nev was asked his opinion, he gave it, we can choose to listen or not.

We need more people like Big Nev saying what they think instead of the constant media led 'glass ceilings', 'get to 40 points', 'punching above their weight' etc etc.pundits who steal a living by being no more than unthinking parrots trotting out meaningiess phrases.

Everest would never have been climbed and man would never have reached the moon if people like Savage and their mindset had been listened to, sport like many things in life relies on ability and belief, to succeed you need both, but belief can make average performers achieve great things.

Derek Thomas
150 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:03:50
Patrick #373 During the 60's I saw a lot of both teams, this was before they became rs.

I must admit they played some very effective winning football and also some average stuff when the promotion team peaked and went off the boil.

We on the other hand played some exceptional football and it must be said some crap and some average ( no change there then )

When we were good it was internal self generated, The Catt put in the players and sometimes got it right, but was, as stated no orator - spin merchant.

In terms of the whole 60's thing it was neck and neck, our best was better than their best. But their average was just slightly higher than us, due I think to the whip effect of shankly's bigging them up. That slight edge is sometimes the difference between winning and losing.

Harry Had his plan, the way the team played and let the opposition like it or lump it, come on give it your best shot, we are Everton, the team in Blue and white, ( we don't need no badges on our shirt to tell us who we are ) when we were good we were very very good.

His idea of tactical change was to ( once ) let Denis Stevens man mark Bryan Douglas after he had bossed us in the previous encounter, or put Sandy Brown up front coz he had a cannonball shot.

Shankly how ever was always changing it about and mostly got it right.

Different men, different ideas, more or less the same effectiveness.

Oh and to who ever the tv ban came in at the end of 69 after he was indiscreet ( swept up in the fame of the tv attention )

The reason why there is hardly any footage of the 62-63 team is that match of the day got on the football beatles liverpool ( the city ) bandwagon, ( of which we were at the forefront ) until 1964 and who were the first on match of the day....correct - the redshite... nothing ever changes

RS, you always get exactly what it says on the tin.

Eugene Ruane
151 Posted 03/06/2013 at 10:57:40
Patrick (638) - "Everest would never have been climbed and man would never have reached the moon if people like Savage and their mindset had been listened to, sport like many things in life relies on ability and belief, to succeed you need both, but belief can make average performers achieve great things"

As far as I'm concerned, that more or less nails it.

Either people get this or they don't.

Gary (636) - "I'm all ears"

Really?

Personally, I see you more as being all unnecessary commas and no spaces.

What Southall did against Leeds (ie: got annoyed, got angry, showed he cared) has ABSOLUTELY FUCK ALL (enjoy em Chris!) to do with whether his comments on what would be good for Everton, have validity or not.

Raising it is, imo, like discussing the assassination of JFK and throwing into the mix "But what kind of materiel were his kecks made from?"

In other words, completely and utterly irrelevant.

Gary Reeves
152 Posted 03/06/2013 at 11:07:29
No Eugene,it's completely relevant sorry. We're taking peoples opinions into account,and weighing up their merit.Previous actions and statements are fair game I'm afraid.
I notice you've used a previous Post (quoting angry and annoyed) about that incident.
I want to know your opinion.
George McKane
153 Posted 03/06/2013 at 11:10:25
Nice one Eugene - - I am all for argument and heated debate - but sometime we have to cool our personal comments about fellow Blues- - but in the end - -lets get on with the footie arguemnt.

I was at The Leeds game and thought "good on you Nev" for at least saying something about mediocrity and drivel. same as now.

Same goes for whatever Gary Speed said - - at least he spoke up.

I have been very clear about my stance - - I have wanted Moyes out for about 5 years - -mediocre and dull.

Now up and ready to move on and give our new manager the same (early) support I gave Moyes and all previous Managers.

Cosmic grooves all the way - - George

Laurie Hartley
155 Posted 02/06/2013 at 21:27:43
Day after day, day after day,
We stuck, nor breath nor motion;
As idle as a painted ship
Upon a painted ocean.

The ship is blue - We need a manager!!! The suspense is driving me mad. If Tony Marsh is right about Pip I am definitely going to spit the dummy.

That feels better.

Gary Reeves
156 Posted 03/06/2013 at 12:42:45
Well George #648 I disagree with your interpretation of Southall's actions against Leeds. No offence,but most of the crowd were in condemnation of him that day too.
This is the same fella who left the players reception,after winning the FA Cup. He drove straight back to Llandudno,and made sure everyone knew about it.
Is that because he's a legend?. . Perhaps he see himself as a bit of a maverick?. . Or is he just an egotistical fool?
John Daley
157 Posted 03/06/2013 at 13:25:03
...the Leeds game. How can you throw Southall into the "Legends" bracket without consideration,to one of his defining moments at Goodison? "

Err.....because he made a record 751 Everton appearances, earned a record 92 Wales caps, won two Leagues championships, two FA Cups, a European Cup-winners’ Cup and was named Footballer of the Year whilst keeping goal for a title winning side.

The fact he got into a strop once and parked his arse down on the pitch for 15 mins is neither here or there. Anyone who would consider that the defining moment of his Everton career, and enough to nullify everything he achieved in the game, has got bigger blinkers on than Hans Moleman.


"...if you look into his eyes,he doesn't even care- He says things out of devilment."

I'm expecting the Halloween soundtrack to kick in at any moment here. You sound like Dr Loomis describing his first meeting with Michael Myers. When exactly was it that you stood in front of Southall, stared deep into his eyes and determined his true nature?


"Southall is a knobhead....He was on Soccer AM recently.."

Let me get this straight...you watch Soccer AM, yet Southall is the knobhead?

Seriously, some people couldn't pour piss out of a shoe if they were told the instructions were printed on the sole


Matt Traynor
158 Posted 03/06/2013 at 13:21:18
Gary #703, I was at that game, was actually working at EFC at the time. The crowd did react badly, partly I thought because they felt that whilst there were problems at Everton at that time, Nev's actions weren't going to help. Leeds had just come up, and missing a penalty didn't help either.

Neville was a perfectionist. If you spoke to him after a game he'd never talk about the great saves, he'd talk about how he felt he should've done better about the one he didn't save. He's actually quite a shy fella, and not one for socialising with the players. His not staying around after the win in '95 was entirely typical, and no-one was surprised.

What's that about goalkeepers being a bit mad? The best ones certainly seemed to be.

George McKane
159 Posted 03/06/2013 at 13:19:13
Absolutely no offence taken at all - opinion that's all.

Well he is still a goalkeeper/Everton Legend for me -- I know a few footballers and many apart from being able to kick or head a ball are not particularly interesting or exciting.

Also I am involved in theatre/art/culture and meet many great actors/writers/poets who's work are tremendous but are not very nice.

Sometimes when everyone is a certain way you need maybe a oddball - like Southhall - -what about Peter Reid not getting on the bus - - does that diminish his Legendary status.

For me no.

In the end its football.

I can accept lots of things but there are a few issues I do not accept such as fascism in anyway - - its interesting that Di Canio caught the ball and we can call him a gentleman or honest - - yet he has openly declared himself a believer in fascism and a supporter of Mussolini - - so on a wider issue maybe man/men/mankind/humans are not all good and not all bad.

So its good that we can completely disagree Gary over someone actions - -of course I keep repeating that its football - - but still we are True Blues.

I do find myself rather leaning towards the outsiders - - those who do not accept mediocrity - - I have declared myself on my FB page and website - -www.yellowhouse.info - - as someone who is engaged in the battle against mediocrity.

But this is all time filling fun - - we are all waiting to see who our next man is.

Best wishes Gary.

Gary Reeves
160 Posted 03/06/2013 at 14:20:45
No probs George,it's a Forum afte rall. Was just that Southall has pissed me off with some of his recent comments,and I wanted to put some perspective. He certainly can't assume that he speaks for us all. I actually think he's been causing a bit of mischief with his "new owners,more money,foreign manager,promote from within" stances - non of which are very well reasoned.
John Daley,I haven't doubted Southall's ability as a goalie,or his place in our history. I just don't care for his opinions. On his recent Soccer AM appearance (beneath you,I know) what came across was his lack of real interest in modern footy. It was a "Done it all. There all shit now. Different in my day" sort of schtick that came across quite foolishly IMO.
George McKane
161 Posted 03/06/2013 at 14:36:55
I'm with you on a few things there Gary.

Some said that was Ball's problem as a Manager - - he would constantly tell players what he had won.

Must be a bit sad being an ex -footballer - - not today's footballers - - they all have well financed retirement - - but those pre Sky guys must sometimes have a bit of a chip on their shoulders and also maybe have to "perform" for a bit of money.

Sad in a way.

Gary Reeves
163 Posted 03/06/2013 at 14:48:31
Well said James. There are some angry cats on here aren't there,ha. You could even be mistaken in thinking John Daley and Eugene are the same person! But that's how I joined this particular debate,because I felt strongly that Southall was stoking the flames. Not through passion for the club,but simply mischief.
It's an important moment for our club and I feel strongly that Martinez should be given his chance. Nobody I know wants promotion from within,and I think it would be a huge gamble to import a foreign manager. Money and ownership are other matters we could debate,but I don't give any more or less weight to Neville Southall's views - Legend,or not.
Tony Sullivan
164 Posted 03/06/2013 at 14:49:08
Neville Southall, great goalkeeper, but if you read his autobiography he comes across as a 'self obsessed' loner who always knew best and rarely listened to others.
Gary Reeves
166 Posted 03/06/2013 at 15:18:21
You weren't there Eugene, were you? It's obvious now, because you have no awareness of my argument. If you were, and I'm wrong, we can debate but I've asked you on three occasions to state your views. . I take it that you also don't remember the Sunday Paper's reaction or the "Once a binman, always a binman!" banner at Coventry, on the Tuesday (If I remember rightly).

If you're too young, that's reason enough, but you should have said earlier. I'm still all ears!

Gary Reeves
167 Posted 03/06/2013 at 15:35:12
Is right, Tony Sullivan, well said, and exactly my initial point.

And Eugene, don't bother pointing out the mistakes in my post. I'm on a smartphone, that isn't the easiest to use. Be home on my laptop soon though.

John Audsley
168 Posted 03/06/2013 at 15:34:32
Hmmm...

Well the Leeds game in 1990 was a long time ago but a hellish day for a 15 year old Blue living near Leeds. Listening to the radio as we went 3-0 down and McDonald's missed penalty nearly killed me.

Colin Harvey said that he had no idea Nev had walked out and the atmosphere can't have been helped having 5,000 Leeds fans sat behind him!!

At that point the team was starting to fall apart and it was only 3 years since we had won the league... I never imagined we would be sat here in 2013 and not ever have been close to the league since.

Anyway, Nev is/was his own man, always will be and I'm proud he played for us. He was incredible to watch and I don't disagree with much he says either. He ain't no yes-man.

Gary Reeves
169 Posted 03/06/2013 at 15:52:41
Well John,there's a subtle but important point to make there. It wasn't the old team falling apart,but a new team being built. I seem to remember that a few players were making their debut that day,which made Southall's reaction even more irresponsible (hence the stick he got). Leeds were electric in the first half,and had loads of pace,but in a curious way the crowd didn't feel like we were out of it. They were right because we pulled back 2 goals! . . It was a selfish thing to do because it had the potential to undermine confidence,and for me it said something about the man.
Eugene Ruane
170 Posted 03/06/2013 at 15:35:15
Gary (783) - Try (REALLY hard) to get this through your skull.

I was at the Leeds game (I'm 54).

You are talking 100% bollocks re the crowd BUT...even if you were 100% RIGHT, that the crowd on the day WERE against Southall (nb: and they fucking well weren't!) it would have absolutely NO relevance whatsoever, as to whether or not his opinion on Everton FC's current state has any validity.

In effect you would be saying "Nothing Southall says about Everton should be listened to because he once sat against the goalpost for most of half-time (once) because he was pissed-off coz we were 3-0 down"

See - fucking stupid and fucking irrelevant.

I have no doubt there will be a response that (for the 10th time) will do nothing but illustrate your inability to grasp the simplest of points.

Consequently, I shall be ignoring it.

In the words of Tony Hancock, 'good luck!'

Paul Andrews
171 Posted 03/06/2013 at 16:13:03
Gary Reeves,

You using your smartphone.
Is that an oxymoron?

John Audsley
172 Posted 03/06/2013 at 16:17:49
Well... Hinchcliffe and Milligan on debut; I still stand by the old team being dismantled rather than a newer one being made. It's possible that Colin would have built a younger, better team but I doubt it... and HK did no better on his return.

By that point, we were skint and clueless in the boardroom....... hmmm, that sounds familiar!

Gary Reeves
174 Posted 03/06/2013 at 16:40:07
Eugene, you sure are a strange one. I prefer John Daley's comments! You're not comfortable with open debate, as others have noticed, and seems you think you can shout people down. I don't rate Southall's opinions – how's that? Is that ok?

Also, I still query the fact that you were at that Leeds game, if you are denying there was a groundswell AGAINST him when he threw his dummy. I am bored also, but not intimidated. Southall talks shite lately – I'll say it again.

Gary Reeves
175 Posted 03/06/2013 at 17:15:34
I'm gonna leave this one now folks. Noticed that some people only like posting,but don't consider other views.
My mate's just confirmed that he remembers the day,and remembers Southall getting heckled too. And guess what? He just informed me that the game (Leeds 1990) is on YouTube. Tells me that Southall comes out and sarcastically claps the away fans - then sits on the post,to a chorus of boos! Am off to have a look! Bye for now.
Peter Laing
176 Posted 03/06/2013 at 17:19:19
"Southall talks shite lately" - sounds like the headline of a sleazy red-top. Gary if you read through your posts you will see a recurring theme of character assassination against Big-Nev for giving his opinion which would appear to conflict with your own. Given that Southall was integral to the greatest Everton team in history and he was on the inside and experienced the rewards of winning first-hand I would argue that he has high standards concerning Everton. We are the fourth most successful Club in England and Southall expects Everton to be aiming high. On the flip-side we have Graeme Sharp who tows the party line and never thinks to question why Everton have fallen so far behind. Give me Neville and his forthright opinions any day, wer'e Everton arent we ?
Brent Stephens
177 Posted 03/06/2013 at 17:49:23
So Nev says: “I'd like to see Everton promote from within the club or I'd like to get someone in who is completely fresh who has won something".

Not much of a difference between those two options?

Mark Frere
178 Posted 03/06/2013 at 18:12:30
Peter Laing 833
Graham Sharp wont say anything too risky because he's employed by Everton, your right though Sharp's very safe and tiresome to listen to. I tend to just ignore what Sharp has to say and can't be bothered reading any of his quotes, theres the risk of me falling into a deep coma with boredem!
Colin Glassar
179 Posted 03/06/2013 at 19:27:15
Great response in the Daily Mirror by David Anderson today. Check it out. Viva Martinez.
Paul Andrews
180 Posted 03/06/2013 at 19:28:35
Martinez was quoted Wednesday last week in London when asked if he had any news "Not until next Monday,i will know then"

Could it be Mr Chairman haggling over the compo with Dave "Shithouse Tory" Whelan.
Maybe Dave has broken his leg and cant attend negotiations.I am sure I read somewhere he had broken his leg.

Ste Traverse
181 Posted 03/06/2013 at 19:16:21
Why would Southall 'make mischief' for this club? Do we really want him to be a pityful yesman man like Greame Sharp?

And don't give a shit that he sat on his post 23 years ago. Over 16 years and 751 games, he paid back for that misdemeanor a million times over.

Well said Big Man. Fuck what anyone else says.

Gary Reeves
182 Posted 03/06/2013 at 20:10:38
Is right Ste. Fuck what anyone else says. Let's strip naked and jump in the pool!

I've wasted a day batting this around and I would urge anyone to go back to the original piece, and try and decipher what Neville is saying. He wants someone from within. Someone fresh who's won something. From France, Spain, Germany I don't care... I mean c'mon, WTF!?! His words of wisdom, last week, were to get someone with £50m! That standard of debate is not good enough, and does no credit to some of the more vociferous posters on here, who like to steer arguments down their own routes.

Paul Andrews
183 Posted 03/06/2013 at 20:34:51
Gary Reeves,

If Southall sitting against a post is how you remember him you can't have been at Spurs for the save from Falcoe, at Sheffield for the impossible save, and the numerous occasions when Neville won us the points in tight games.

Gary Reeves
184 Posted 03/06/2013 at 20:39:07
He was a great goalie,Paul. I've no issue with that,and I've stated it previously. Hugely unimpressed with his recent views though,and I reserve the right to say so.
Kevin Hudson
185 Posted 03/06/2013 at 20:38:52
Gary,

I think you place way too much expectation in the Socratic, oratory abilities of ex-footballers.

In fact, I doubt that I could name any player would pass a "standard of debate," test.

The man's not the Keynote Speaker at the Oxford University Debating Society...Neville's in a free-flowing conversation and he's simply kicking ideas around.

Albeit not renowned for penetrating insight, he remains one of our greatest, and at the least, we all know where his heart lies. You should cut him a little slack.

Gary Reeves
186 Posted 03/06/2013 at 20:55:16
Well Kevin,I know what you're saying and that's fine. I had these visions of Kenwright going through the forums and sweating over every Post. Then you get ex-players chipping in with views that potentially trump others - and I'm not sure that's right. Personally I jumped into the debate because I thought Southall was being a bit mischievous,with what were totally half-baked statements. . We can all have our say,and we all have to justify them. That's a forum.
Gary Reeves
187 Posted 03/06/2013 at 22:45:06
On the subject of Forums,who runs this one? I only ask because I've noticed a few "disappear" during the day.
Tony Stanley
188 Posted 04/06/2013 at 00:59:03
Everton Football Club are too big for Roberto Martinez.
James Lauwervine
189 Posted 04/06/2013 at 11:34:47
That would include mine Gary, not for the first time. Or indeed the last as it will probably include this comment.
Patrick Murphy
190 Posted 04/06/2013 at 11:52:43
Tony you might be right but Everton Football Club are not big enough for the people we covet.

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