Everton reject Man Utd bid for Baines

, 27 June, 494comments  |  Jump to most recent
27 year-old is 'not for sale' at any price

Everton have told Manchester United that Leighton Baines is not for sale at any price after David Moyes launched his attempt to prise Leighton Baines away from Everton with a firm offer today.

First The Times and then The Guardian and the BBC reported that a bid of around £12m has been submitted by United for the 28-year-old, but Everton have insisted he is not for sale for any price, a position corroborated by the Echo's Greg O'Keeffe.

Bill Kenwright indicated a few weeks ago that talks with Baines over a new contract would be scheduled this summer and they will take on fresh urgency now that his ex-manager appears to have made his interest in taking the England international to Old Trafford official despite the fact that he doesn't officially take over at United until next week.

Quotes or other material sourced from The Guardian



Reader Comments (494)

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Keith Edwards
2 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:16:03
£12 million? You're having a laugh. If Moyes was still in charge, would he sanction the sale of Baines for that? I think not. They've got to be at least £8 million short.
Patrick Murphy
3 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:19:12
Go away Mr Moyes Bainsey wants to stay I hope!
Sharabi Singh
4 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:17:52
Baines commented this week himself how he's looking forward to next season playing a more attractive style that RM will bring. Hope he meant it!!
Brian Harrison
5 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:20:13
Well lets hope it isn't true, but being an old cynic yesterday Leighton was being quoted as looking forward to working with Martinez. Now surely his agent hadn't told him of Moyes interest so decided to get a positive quote in about Martinez before the bid arrived.
Sam Hoare
6 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:23:56
Surely the second most creative player in Europe costs more than 12m?! If they come back with 20m+ then it may be worth considering.
Robert Collins
7 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:22:29
12 million for Baines???

Cheeky twat!!!

Dear Mr Moyes,

He leaves this club there's no Fellaini clause with him, so it will be for a highest bidder fortune after he has requested a transfer!!!

James Martin
8 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:27:12
Ridiculous if that price is true but wouldn't surprise me. That would be typical Everotn, we sell of one of the world's best left backs for a pittance just because all the papers consider it a reasonable fee then if we were to enquire about some no mark that hasn't done much like Luke Shaw as a replacement we'd probably get quoted the same price if not higher. anything less than 20 million would be a travesty for a player who is by far superior to any of the English players sold for extortionate fees recently. Rodwell, Carrol (ist time and second time), Downing, Henderson - Baines. Who is the best out of this list - top assist maker and barely misses a game? Yet naturally of course he'll end up going for the lowest fee. Absolutely ridiculous.
Jim Knightley
9 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:35:11
Why would it be typical Everton to sell a top top player for 10mil James? I really don't see it. Our transfer market record is good.

Personally, I believe this story is bullshit.

Andy Whittingham
10 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:34:37
Baines is worth more than Fellaini, he's an international coming to his peak, more chances created than anyone in Europe and never gets injured. I value him around the £30m mark..
Shane Corcoran
11 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:38:42
Did anyone else get the feeling from Baines's comments that he was genuinely looking forward to playing under Martinez's style of play and was happy that he wouldn't be playing the Moyes way?
Jon Ferguson
13 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:43:25
Baines is irreplaceable. £10-12M is ludicrous. I wouldn't offer a minimum bid amount, just say No!
James Martin
14 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:43:46
Jim apart from Lescott I've long thought we've undersold our players. David Ngog went for more than Pienaar did a fee matched by the sale of the mighty jay Spearing. Indeed Spurs burnt us by selling Pienaar back at a greater price despite the fact he barley played for htem, how could his value have gone up?

Why did we only get 2 mill for Yakubu, a nominal fee for Saha, why did Gueye go for practically nothing? Rooney's fee was low considering what we were selling. If Henderson was 20 million why did Rodwell go for 12 plus add ons? Why did Bilyaletdinov go for the same price as Charlie Adam?

I think we undersell our fringe players due to a combination of our well known desperation and the pitiful values that the papers attach to them that everyone starts to believe. Its as though if you play for Liverpool or Tottenham you get an extra million or two on your price. If Baines or Fellaini was playing for either of these two do you really think the respecctive fees would be 12 million and 22 million? I know one is a release clause but they are stupid prices. If Baines is sold for that reported figure it will be the most disappointing transfer I have ever witnessed at Everton. I just hope its not true.

James Martin
15 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:56:43
Shane, Baines had license to do whatever he wanted under Moyes he regulalry got forward wihtout any care for defending so I can't see how he was somehow shackled by playing under Moyes. If anything if Martinez constructs a good attacking system Baines will probably be getting forward less as our sole route of attack won't be to release Baines for a cross to Fellaini.
Jamie Barlow
16 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:55:16
We shouldn't even reply to an offer like that Jon. Just delete the text or email or rip up the fax and bin it.

What a cunt Moyes is.

James Morgan
17 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:48:59
They have bid according to SSN.
Kevin Tully
18 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:00:12
Looks like this has got legs - opening story on SSN!

Be a disaster for us if he does go, our best player by a mile.

Conor Skelly
19 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:04:06
Yep, that's that then on SSN. Any less than £25m would be a rip-off.
Paul Andrews
20 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:07:37
Mr Honesty has told us he is in negotiations for 2 players.
He didn`t say negotations to buy or negotiations to sell
Watch this space
Mick Doherty
21 Posted 27/06/2013 at 16:58:11
I know it's unlikely, but, BK should simply say 30 million or fuck off, you can see this one being dragged out.... small incremental offers, you know like 13 million plus Zaha on loan for a season, 13.5 million plus Fabio or some other fringe player.
Andy Mack
22 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:10:46
I'd be a laugh if we countered with a 6million bid for Rooney. Moyes seems to have plucked the Baines value out of the air, so why can't EFC.

Oi Kenwright. No! Even if the ginger one does make you weak at the knees.

James Morgan
23 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:14:47
I think the only person who will really make this happen is Leighton himself. It's his choice, and I couldn't blame him if he went.
We need at least 20m for him.
Steavey Buckley
24 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:16:50
Everton have a good team. Just need about 2 new faces, one who can score goals. But it would be wrong to sell Baines or Fellaini. They are Everton's insurance for the forthcoming season.
Peter Thistle
25 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:17:11
What a cheeky bastard Moyes is. What happened to the agreement that he wouldn't try n take our best players with him. Everyone has their price I suppose but I hope Everton value him so highly that UTD refuse to pay that much. BTW SSN is reporting Everton said he's not for sale.
Andrew Bone
26 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:18:34
Skysppets now reporting we have rejected the offer. Hope so. Not confident Oviedo would be enough yet and garbutt isn't ready.
Gerry Quinn
27 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:22:33
I can see it now - 2 million plus Scholes and Giggs. Oh no, hang on, Moysie holds on to the OAP's in the middle of the park! :)
Jake Lucas
28 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:25:41
I'd only do it in a straight swap for Rooney and the red shit pay Rooney's wages throughout his 6 year contract with us.
Robin Cannon
29 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:28:27
That's so derisory as to be insulting.
Tony McNulty
30 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:24:50
The bid was for Naismith, I believe.

In any case, how can Moyes be making any bids for Everton players? He's still being paid as our manager.

What's he offering for Ronaldo, by the way, 3 million plus peanut vouchers?

Phil Sammon
31 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:20:27
James Martin

'David Ngog went for more than Pienaar did a fee matched by the sale of the mighty jay Spearing. Indeed Spurs burnt us by selling Pienaar back at a greater price despite the fact he barley played for htem, how could his value have gone up?'

--------

What?

Because we sold him when he had a matter of months left on his contract. We bought him back with years left on his Spurs contract. The only person to blame for that debacle is Pienaar for not signing a new contract with us.

I sincerely hope Baines stays. £10-12million is a travesty. If this was a foreign left back then we'd be talking £20+million. He's in the top 3 full backs in the world for christs sake.

I love the way the media are quite happy to tout Bale (who's had one great season) for £85million yet little Everton's best player is £15million at most.

I would quite happily see a £25million bid rejected by the club...however that's just not going to happen. I can even see Baines saying he doesn't want to leave, but the board forcing him out for the money.

Conor Skelly
32 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:23:42
The worry I have about this, is that Moyes knows, in detail, the financial situation at Everton. It's a game of poker in which the opponent knows our hand. £15m will see this deal done.
Phil Sammon
34 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:30:29
Kevin Ratcliffe on Talk Sport

Paraphrased

"Leighton Baines is around 29-30 and Everton should accept £15million"

90% of our ex-pros in the media are fucking idiots.

Stuart Mitchell
35 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:39:06
I will not even read anything that involves Talk Sport, total joke!
Mick Doherty
36 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:40:42
Ashley Cole is now 33, and he is still a very good left back, there is no reason not to suggest that Baines will also still be a very good left back when he reaches 33, that's 4 seasons of one of the best left backs in world football, go try and replace that with your 12-15 million, and without undermining the squad morale and cohesion, and placate the irate supporters...... no chance
Jamie Barlow
37 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:44:23
Baines is 28 and worth loads more than £15 million.

Did something happen to Kevin Ratcliffe to make him so fuckin miserable and bitter? The bloke always seems to be on a downer.

Matt Traynor
38 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:52:16
Peter Thistle #932, you really believed such an agreement would exist?
If there was an agreement, it was no bids would be lodged prior to last night's EGM.

And as someone else pointed out, we're still paying Moyes' wages for the next few days!

Patrick Murphy
39 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:47:07
BK "Do me a favour Dave, don't bid for any of our players until the EGM has taken place'
DM "Aye OK Bill, but it will cost you"
BK "oh and make it before Wenger comes in for the Big Guy, otherwise the supporters will think I'm up to no good again"
DM "Aye OK Bill, but it will cost you"
BK "OK I was thinking around £20m!"
DM "Did you not hear me Bill, I said it will cost you on two occasions and every time I say it will cost you it knocks £4m off the asking price, have we got a deal?"
BK flustered and unsure how much the conversation has cost him answers "Oh OK then Dave old son, you really are the greatest manager we've ever had, speak to you again soon"

BK replaces receiver and speed dials RM "Alo Amigo - guess what I've managed to raise the cash to buy Kone, Alcaraz and some other bloke from Wigan, all for less wages than that greedy bugger Baines wanted - oh it's so good to have a special relationship with the Everton Manager - see you next week cheers Davy ...err...Roberto"


Dan Brierley
40 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:40:56
I don't think anybody suggesting that 15 million is a fair deal, is an idiot. In 18 months, Baines can start talking with other clubs about a free transfer. His current contract is 44,000 per week. What would be idiotic, would be to lose the best left back in the country for nothing.

It's rumoured that Baines will be offered a new contract shortly. If he rejects it, then it's sell sell sell for me. Great player, but he is not bigger than EFC.

Gareth Bale is 23, and just won PFA Young Player of the Year, Players player of the year, FWA Player of the year, and has 3 years to run on a 120,000 a week contract. It is a very different case, no?

James Stewart
41 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:59:17
15m is a joke for the best Left back in the league. Do one Moyes!
Jeremy Benson
42 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:57:29
I don't think we should sell - but I think its fair that his value is around the £15m mark at his age - because his next contract will likely be his last (given 4 years+) and there will be next to nothing re-sale value after that time for the next club. Thats the way it works.

He is worth far more than £15m to us, so I'd keep. If he were 3 years younger he'd be £25m+, but he isn't.

I'm afraid ratcliffe knows what he is talking about.

Colin Glassar
43 Posted 27/06/2013 at 17:58:25
Deep breath, deep breath....... I knew he was a hypocrite and now he has just confirmed it. After all the holier than thou bullshit when city poached lescott off us and now the little shit has done exactly the same. I couldn't stand him when he was our manager, I can't even bare to say his name now.
Patrick Murphy
44 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:01:29
Oh fuck it sell the lot of them and buy Wigan Athletic lock stock and barrel at least they made a profit last year.
Matty Dawkins
45 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:10:09
He said only yesterday that he was looking forward to playing for us next season and, let's face it, this story has been doing the rounds for ages so Baines must have known of any interest. Moyes should know better after the way Hughes persisted over Lescott. I bet he stays!
Steve Brown
46 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:12:35
We've turned the bid down. What's the panic?

By the way, anyone who is an England international, one of the best left-backs in the world and a target for Bayern Munich is worth a lot more than £15 million in the current market.

Al Reddish
47 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:09:41
Been confirmed we have made a 'solid enquiry' for Kone.
I think around £18m for Baines would be decent seeing as he has only a couple of years left. Hope he stays though. As for Kone....£6.5m for a 29 year old is something I don't like the sound of. Tevez was only a couple of million more for Juventus. Also Alcaraz may be decent on a free but again is 30 yrs old. We were meant to be lowering the age of the squad.
I think Roberto could be in for a rude awakening with our transfer policy!!
Geoff Freeman
48 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:14:06
I'd sooner sell him across the park than give him to Moyes.Bill don't start pulling the rug from under Roberto by selling one of our best players
Liam Reilly
49 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:15:09
If it's true, it's just an opening bid to kick of dialog with Kenwright and suggests that Moyes rthnks he can get Baines for 15 Million or less.

What did Moyes say when he was manager. "Everton may have to sell, but it won't be cheaply".

Kenwright needs to be strong here and tell him to do one. Get the lad on a long term contact to protect the investment.

Kieran Fitzgerald
50 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:17:11
These stories about us signing Wigan players won't go away until the transfer window closes, regardless of whether or not we're interested or have the cash.

Al, I think Roberto is all too aware of our transfer policy. The last eleven years is ample evidence. Also, I do honestly think he would have known what money was around as part of any negotiations into him joining us. The guy is used to Dave Whelan, I don't think Bill will get to pull a fast one on him.

What I'm more worried about at the moment is the rumour of Rooney going to Arsenal. If this is true, that could stop them signing Felliani. Whether we like it or not, we need to sell to get a decent transfer fund in for quality players. I would rather sell Felliani than Baines as they are the only two cash cows we have.

James Carlisle
51 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:20:13
Feck off Moyes we don't want you sniffing round here anymore especially if you think we're gonna give up our best player for 12 mill. Come on, Rodwell went for that much!

Stingy bastard.

Colin Glassar
52 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:25:26
Moyes is still on our payroll to boot the cheeky swine. Unfortunately, I can see billy liar eventually bending over for his beloved David, probably on the last day of the TW.
Patrick Murphy
53 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:32:00
Colin what have you heard? Is TW coming to an end oh no I see Transfer Window you had me going there though.
Phil Rodgers
55 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:41:22
11 years at a club and he makes a 12 million bid for Baines like he's fucking Rory delap. Complete lack of respect for the club and fans. What a nob.
Ron Sear
56 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:36:48
Hurray, at last, we can now officially hate Moysie for the money hunting turncoat that he is. There is nothing like betrayal to generate a sense of disgust. On the other hand it might be just a cunning plot to lead MU into relegation before he returns.
Paul Mackie
57 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:41:03
No quotes from Man U, Everton or Baines in any of the stories = Made up paper bollocks.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Tony Cheek
58 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:36:46
Baines is my hero, a true Blue, a player who gives all and then more. A player that we should never let go. He is the sort of player that the rest of the team love to play with. A torch bearer!

Give him a new 5 year contract, break the rules, just keep him! FUCK OFF MOYES!

Wayne Smyth
59 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:40:38
£12M?

Taking the piss for one of the best left backs in the world.

He can have hibbo.....maybe.

I find it odd people think that Baines next contract is going to be his last. I suspect he'll be capable of playing at the top level for another 7 or 8 years.

Phil Sammon
60 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:35:01
Jeremy @956

'I don't think we should sell - but I think its fair that his value is around the £15m mark at his age - because his next contract will likely be his last (given 4 years+) and there will be next to nothing re-sale value after that time for the next club. Thats the way it works.
He is worth far more than £15m to us, so I'd keep. If he were 3 years younger he'd be £25m+, but he isn't.

I'm afraid Ratcliffe knows what he is talking about'

--------

Ratcliffe is saying we should sell for £15million.

You and I are saying we should keep him if offered £15million.

So how does Ratcliffe, in your opinion, know what he's talking about, yet completely contradict your own opinion?

Good luck explaining that one.

Dan Brierley

Yes, I'm not suggesting Bale and Baines should be valued the same. I am merely saying that there isn't £70million between them.

I've said it before - Martinez should offer Baines £75k p/w and explain to him exactly how crucial he is to our style of play. Set piece taker, major attacking outlet and first name on the team sheet EVERY week. If Baines wants to go after being told that then fair enough. Shake the man's hand and let him go. I sincerely hope he signs a new deal with us.

Dean Adams
61 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:47:36
Sod off Moyes
Matt Traynor
62 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:46:58
Paul Mackie #983 Radio 5Live aren't known for broadcasting newspaper speculation during the sport in the national news update.

Of course, if you'd prefer to wait till the photo of him holding a Man U scarf is on the back of the Mirror, that's ok too.

On a side note, it's funny how these last few weeks has seen Moyes plastered all over the back pages, bidding for X, Y and Z. Probably more coverage than the entire time of his Everton tenure.

Craig Robb
63 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:37:34
£25million would be good business, not a penny less though!
Ste Traverse
64 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:54:42
BK has been banging on recently about wanting to keep Baines, and wanting to offer him a new deal.

Exactly the same things the phony was saying about Rooney 9 years ago so the player rather than BK himself will get the shit when the player is sacrificed.

Ste Traverse
65 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:55:17
Oh and Moyes can fuck off. TWELVE FUCKING MILLION??


He's still a paid employee right now and has the cheek blatantly taking the piss with his derisory bids?

GTF.

Leon Marshall
66 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:37:36
Maybe Moyes should offer £25 mil plus Evra — then he can wind the Sewer Rat up in the derby!
Ross Edwards
67 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:48:08
So, Mr David Moyes, a man so often praised on here by so many people for being dignified, loyal etc etc, is trying to sign a player from a club he is still contracted to?

He has shafted us good and proper. His supporters can twist this to a positive if they wish, but we have been paying this deceitful turncoat since he signed for them, for NO WORK whatsoever, and now he is signing one of our players. It's disgusting and it's disgraceful, defend him how you want but he has shafted us.

I told you when he signed that he didn't give a damn about the club, this just reaffirms this. His "I'm now working for two clubs from next week, ha ha ha" just sickened me, and only a circus like Everton would allow a man to collect a month's wages for no work, the situation is absolutely, absurdly laughable in every way.

People on here saying, "who cares, he's gone, move on", how the hell can we? He, until July 1st, is still OUR manager, he officially leaves on Monday.

So, for a man who supposedly loves the club, cares about the club,wishes it well, blah blah, has raided our coaching staff, shafted us into a month's wages for nothing, and now signing a player he still technically works with. It's just deceitfulness in every single respect, and of course our idiotic chairman has fallen for it.

What we should have done is that as soon as it was announced, we should have just let him go there and then, but no, we are in this joke of a situation.

He is just a snake. Good riddence David, hopefully Utd will expose you as the real bottling, tactically inept failure you really were.

One thing that Martinez has won me over with is his dignity and respect, which our manager supposedly had in bundles.

Patrick Murphy
68 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:56:03
I would sell the whole squad if it meant we could get rid of the charlatans running our club. It is becoming so predictable Rooney, Arteta, Rodwell, Lescott and others all sold to facilitate the long term debts, hardly the sort of actions you'd expect from a well run club.
Bill sell as many players as you want put the money into you and your friend's bank account and just do one. Whilst all the other clubs are spending or intending to spend on the back of a bumper TV deal, what are we doing...same as we always do...selling our best players. I know the club have officially rejected the MU bid, but once the ball is rolling it always ends up the same way, we get the cash the bidders get the player.


James McCall
69 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:45:08
I don't believe SSN or much paper talk but a cheeky £10-12 million pound bid from Moyes wouldn't surprise me. I'm not saying we are a one-man team but I would fear for us if we lost Baines.

Not only would his absence have a massive effect on the style we play, but it would send a negative message to other players and also other teams would come along for more players and then you have an unsettled team and you're doing yourself no favours before the season has even started.

Mark my words, Mirallas and Coleman will both play for Man Utd if Moyes keeps his job; I just feel he will let them have another season or two and he'll take them.

Paul Ferry
70 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:46:13
Dear Lord over and over again I've said on these hallowed boards that Ginger has dignity and decency in spades. His selections and tactics often made me go on a kicking animals tour of the house, but I reminded myself he has dignity and decency in spades. At least he is no Mark Hughes or anyone else who might pull a Lescott stunt.

Anyway, his decency and dignity was dripping away in the manner in which he jumped ship; there is no way on this earth that he knew the Man-U job was landing in his lap on say March-9 (to pluck a random date out of the air).

My Moyes-ometer went up at the last home game for a brief while, but has dropped ever since.

This Baines bid is nothing less than an insult and to cap it all we are still paying his wages for a few more days.

Bastard.

A fucking insult, theft, whatever ......

Moyes is taking the piss out of his present/former employer but then it springs to mind that he knows Teary Billy's limitations and weak spots better than anyone else.

Nor do I trust Luvvy-chops not to sell: in other words not for sale at any price is the equivalent of searching 24/7 or we are currently looking into .....

Ginger is treating us today with the same sort of contempt and crafty guile shown my Sparky a few years back.

He's in Sky-land now and will act in the appropriate manner.

My Moyes-ometer is barely ticking over the red zone.

If he steals Baines - and Luvvy-chops caves in as his current employee Ginger thinks he will - then I will lose all respect
for Moyes. And I find myself, against my will, joining the 'I
hope he fails brigade', or IHHFB for short.

Hey let's call it the dagger cut-and-thrust of the lofty heights of Sky-land shall we?

Nope, not me for at any rate.

Time to step up to the plate Luvvy-chops and erm, cough,
stick to your words and dig in your heels.


Peter Warren
71 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:48:04
I love Baines. But if we got 20m we should sell
Paul Ferry
72 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:02:22
so sorry - 'There is no way on this earth that he HE DID NOT KNOW the Man-U job was landing in his lap on say March-9 (to pluck a random date out of the air).
Anthony Flack
73 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:01:57
Hypothetical of course, but would we swap him for Rooney, I rate him as more valuable than the granny shagger, and the Mancs would tell anyone offering 12m for Rooney to fuck themselves...

Moyes is doing his job oh shit I forgot it's still June....

Mark Tanton
74 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:59:10
Pointless getting our knickers in a twist. Man Utd is a bigger club, Baines might want medals, he might also want to raise his profile for the world cup. If he leaves, we'll survive and go on. I'll wish him the best if he goes, and I won't hold it against Bill either, who can't force a player to stay. I'm sure Wigan were gutted when we brought him here - football is a pecking order and we're above some and below others. I just hope we can push them closer to £20m.
Andrew Bone
75 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:55:52
To be honest, I would love to see Baines stay. The club is stuck in a quandary though. If we don't sell our best players we have no money to build the squad with, but if we do sell them we are stripping the assets that could push us on to the next step and just replacing them. I would love kenwright to turn round and say he is unwilling to do business with man utd, but that probably can't happen.
Ged Simpson
76 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:05:09
Mr Ferry - how can you be even the slightest bit amusing about this ? Disgrace. But you may need to remind us what IHHFB stands for occasionally for it to become part of our vocabulary. Great post Paul - balances our annoyance with perspective.
Mark Tanton
77 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:59:10
Pointless getting our knickers in a twist. Man Utd is a bigger club, Baines might want medals, he might also want to raise his profile for the world cup. If he leaves, we'll survive and go on. I'll wish him the best if he goes, and I won't hold it against Bill either, who can't force a player to stay. I'm sure Wigan were gutted when we brought him here - football is a pecking order and we're above some and below others. I just hope we can push them closer to £20m.
Kevin Walsh
78 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:59:26
I really hope this is paper talk and not a real bid from the manager that's STILL AT OUT CLUB! Though not one player is bigger than the club, Baines is a very important character/player to have at the side. He oozes professionalism and class on and off the pitch.

Moyes, please get lost, you have a big pot of dough to pluck another LB from most other teams in Europe. Take a look around and be a man of your word.

Patrick Murphy
79 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:05:37
Paul coincidentally that is the same date that his Captain made an error of judgement and passed the ball to the opposition, who just happened to be Wigan managed by Roberto Martinez, Evertonians don't need to jump a train or go on a rollercoaster to be taken for a ride.
Geoff Freeman
80 Posted 27/06/2013 at 18:57:05
Ste, I thought Rooney's agent had more to do with Rooney leaving us than B K
Thomas Windsor
81 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:20:03
Sell Baines at that price, Kenwright, and you will expect one hell of a backlash from the fans. Stand up to these bigger clubs and show some bottle.
Brian Williams
82 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:26:34
I would tell them, and make it public, that only bids in excess of £25 million pounds will be considered, and only then within a certain time frame...none of this letting someone go with days left to the start of the season.
Alternatively I would make a statement that Baines is integral to our plans for the future and as such is not for sale!
Jack Cross
83 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:23:08
Baines is brill, we all agree on that. But he's 29 now. £15 mil doesn't sound too far off to me. Although we'd all love £30 mil. But realistically we're Everton and we always seem to sell our star players well below what they're worth. We act like a club with loads of cash, instead of without it.
Brian Waring
84 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:37:05
Agree with you Brian, BK should put it out there that if anyone wants Baines, they will have to start the bidding at £25m.
Steve Guy
85 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:40:50
Second word is "off" followed by "and don't come back".
Steve Guy
86 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:40:50
Second word is "off" followed by "and don't come back".
James Morgan
87 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:42:35
He's 28 not 27, but nevertheless, they can still reproduce in a different location.
Mark Knight
88 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:45:01
Kiss arse Moyes..
Ryan Sydow
89 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:44:50
Quickest way for Moyes to tarnish his legacy at Everton is to pull this sort of crap. Bugger off and find another left back ... In fact have some decency and don't dare come in for any of ours for at least two seasons!
Ross Edwards
90 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:48:17
Ryan, what legacy?
Barry Rathbone
91 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:36:06
Well done Moyesie.

12 mill offer for Baines a standing ovation while tapping the lad up and drawing wages out the club at the same time.

What a surprise? ...... NOT!!!!

Ross Edwards
92 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:53:45
I think when he returns to play us at GP we should show him what we really think of him now...
Jack Collins
93 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:52:25
If we accept anything less that £20 million, or £10-15 million (especially when Henderson, Downing and Fernandinho all cost their respective prices) then I will have lost total faith, of which there is very little, with BK.
James Stewart
94 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:57:02
If Moyes wants to be welcomed back through the front door at Everton he is certainly going about it in the wrong way!

Baines sounded pretty enthusiastic about playing under RM so hopefully he will stay. I know who I would rather play under!

Alyson Leonard
95 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:02:07
Dear Mr Moyes,

Let's not be silly: let's talk Rooney... then we will negotiate.

Ryan Sydow
96 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:05:29
Ross ... He left the place in better state than he found it ... I suppose that is what I was getting at.
Paul Ferry
97 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:00:56
Cheers Mr Simpson

IH[ope]H[e]F[ails]B[ridage]

Ha that was nice coincidence Patrick (996). That was truly
one of the worst things I have seen at The Old Lady for a
long long while. But ex-Skip Pip was first rate at putting
his head in his hands. A fine art in his hands these last
three years or so.

Chris Leyland
98 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:02:21
You gotta love ToffeeWeb. We've had people on here saying Martinez should sign McManaman, McCarthy and reports of us going in for Kone. But should Moyes dare to come and try and sign some Everton players then he is a twat, judas etc etc.

Erm, no he's not. He is Man U manager/will be in 4 days depending on what you believe. As such, his only concern now is Man U, just as ours is only Everton. All the talk of agreements not to come in for our players was simply only ever just that 'talk'

The price Man U want to pay for Baines may well be in excess of £12m but it is called negotiating and in a negotiation the job of the buyer is to purchase someone at the lowest price they can get it for. Everton's job, should the club decide to sell or Baines decide that he wants to go, is to get the top price they can.

Denis Richardson
99 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:06:28
Man Utd coming in for Baines is not that surprising. After all SAF was apparently keen on taking him from us over the last couple of years.

Every player has a price and losing Baines would be a big blow but one that we can survive - every player leaves at some point. The opening offer however is bang out of order and Moyes seems to be using his knowledge of how skint we are to try to get him at a ridiculously low price. If Baines had been playing for say Chelsea or Arsenal, the price offered would be nearer 20m!

The club should simply tell Man u to do one with such a derisory offer. If they are serious then something in the line of 15m + Hernandez or 20m cash - up front should be the starting point!

God I hope we stuff them when the turn up at GP!

Joe Halligan
100 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:11:04
I remember when Moyes was "disgusted" at Man City's pursuit of Joleon Lescott after they were told he was not for sale. Let's see how he acts after he has been told the same.

He also claimed "we do things with class and dignity at Everton" ... I guess that doesn't apply at United then eh!

Ste Traverse
101 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:37:26
'Delusional' Dan Brierley #954.

Given the deluded rubbish you constantly post, I don't think you are in any position to dismiss anyone as an idiot.

BTW, that post was another load of nonsense from start to finish.

Denis Richardson
102 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:12:31
Chris 079 - there is a fine line between offering a low ball figure to get the ball rolling and taking the piss.

12m for Baines is taking the piss and also the bid seems to have been tactically leaked to the press given that the broadsheets were the first to report on it.

3 guesses for who did the leaking!

Steven Telford
103 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:47:14
........ hang a moment, has this bid been confirmed?
The sources are pretty good, however I'm still a bit sceptical.
I hope its not true, but if he has, well, If Moyes was our manager, he would have done what he did with Lescott and hold out for 25.

Take into account that Bains is the leading "chance creator" in Europe.
An assist is equally as valuable as a goal.

I hope we keep him

James Flynn
104 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:42:53
Shit. Thought this would happen. Evra older, Baines younger (and better). And we're talking about the ownership dumped Rooney for some ready. Doubt selling Baines will get their hands to trembling.

Conor (943) hit on it. Moyes knows who he's dealing with and has told the Glazer money folks so.

Maybe we can get 18 million?

Carl Sanderson
105 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:14:37
Joe:

Moyes was rightly appalled at City's behaviour because they unsettled the player and Hughes made some comments about "speaking to the people who make the decisions". City tried to treat Everton like shit; Moyes got twenty-odd million for the player.

On the present occasion Moyes has made a straight club-to-club bid, albeit too low, for one of our players. Nothing controversial. We've said "no" and that's where we are.

All this talk about him "stabbing the club in the back" is a pile of embarrassing bollocks.

James Stewart
106 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:19:07
Don't disagree with that point but 12m is insulting. There is negotiating fair enough but that is taking the piss. We should make a counter 12m for Rooney and see what they say.
Ross Edwards
107 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:20:33
Carl, the point we are getting at here is that he is still officially OUR manager, contracted to us until Monday, and he is bidding for a player from a club he still works for. You could say that Moyes has treated us badly as he has got a month's wages for nothing. Surely that cannot be right.
Alan Smith
108 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:09:11
Baines for £10M and Rooney, or tell that ginger traitor where to go. I'm sure Monaco, PSG or Bayern would pay £15-18M.

By the way, I don't want to be hypocritical. Martinez buying Wigan players would be just as sly...

John Crawley
109 Posted 27/06/2013 at 19:42:42
Baines, unlike fellaini, is irreplaceable. He is the best left back that we have had in the last fifty years. He's consistently the most creative defender in the premier league. He's the second highest creator of chances in Europe. I think he's the best left back in Europe.

He isn't worth selling unless he puts in a transfer request and then I wouldn't sell him for less than £20 million. Moyes is taking the piss with that bid just like he's been taking the piss getting paid since he took the united job!

Carl Sanderson
110 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:24:11
Unless and until there is interest from other clubs it will be naive to expect Moyes to do anything other than bid low.

If Baines is undersold then it will be the Everton Board's fault.

Matthew Correal
111 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:26:15
Surely Man Utd won't be the only team coming in for him? I hope he doesn't but, If he's going to go, then a bidding war is the club's bestb outcome....

Joe Halligan
112 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:28:39
Carl you do have a point. I was just pointing out that if we have allegedly told United that he isn't for sale (a la Lescott) it will be interesting to see to what end they choose to pursue it.

It's a fact of life that the teams with more cash come in and take our players, just as we do to teams below us. What I can't stand for is a man who I believed to act with dignity and respect not waiting until he is no longer handsomely paid by us to put in what many would consider a derisory offer. (Albeit I'm sure it is David Gill/Edward Woodward who handles that side of it)

Kristian Boyce
113 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:36:26
Sounds like Moyes is playing a game of Football Manager where you can cheat and be a manager of two teams at once, trading players cheaply from one team to the other.

Employing him to the end of his contract is proving to be the biggest farce ever.

David Greenwood
114 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:42:07
40 million plus add ons before we even consider it.

Only Jordi Alaba comes close to being as good as Baines.

Levy is going to get 85 million for Bale.
Oh to have him doing our negotiating.

Mike Green
115 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:42:43
Either this is the papers meddling, in which case they're bang out of order but what do we expect - or it's a fucking piss take by Moyes, especially as he's still on our fucking wage bill! £12m?!?!? Go to fuck. Jesus.
Alan Smith
116 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:33:29
John (093) and Carl (094):

Fellaini is the best defensive midfielder we've in had since Reid! Why is everyone on his back and can't wait to sell him?

All you're doing is the the board's dirty work, sell before you buy! Fellaini was more important than Baines last season, just. So love him as much as you do Baines

And why are people still defending Moyes? As if Man Utd haven't sounded out Baines' agent.

Moyes put himself above Everton... you can't blame him... but you don't need to still be defending him either. He's the enemy now and he's unsettling our second-best player, so he's a...... [please insert derogatory remark of your choice].

Mark Dunford
117 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:32:27
A derisory offer by the man who bragged about Everton selling high and buying low. Impossible to follow this parsimony through in the new job where the reverse is true. I suspect this one will run and run till either Baines is sold or the window shuts. Lescott may even return to add fuel to the fire and Oviedo is surely worth considering. Garbutt must also be handy unless the England U20 outfit is as bad as the U21; I suspect it isn't for a host of reasons. I'd still want to keep Baines and think Fellaini is the more likely leaver. If they both go, we're looking at a major shake up.

No doubt we'll learn more next week when we know who is leaving/joining the backroom and we'll get some low key signings to show we're alive in the premiership game.

I was impressed with Kone when I saw him for Wigan but the rumoured fee is a lot - prob too much - for a 29 year old with potential rather than a track record.

David Greenwood
118 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:48:01
Should have added, I don't get the feeling that Bainsey wants to go anyway.

John Crawley
119 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:50:18
It's a low bid by Moyes and he's leaked it to the papers to try and unsettle Baines and trigger a transfer request. At the same time as still getting paid by the club!

I didn't have much time for him when he was the manager — I've got none now!

David Greenwood
120 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:56:44
Rooney plus £35 mil plus add-ons Moyesy, beat it.
Carl Sanderson
121 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:45:14
Frankly, I am far less concerned about Moyes working for Manchester United before 1st July than I am about the myriad of other problems facing Everton FC.
John Crawley
123 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:02:25
The point is Carl that the situation that was allowed to develop with Moyes and what is going on now with this bid for Baines is symptomatic of all that is wrong with the club.
Jamie Barlow
124 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:23:08
Given the bullshit games Bill plays, it wouldn't surprise me if he's asked Moyes to put a bid in so he looks good turning it down. A day after the meeting as well.
John Malone
125 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:48:09
Our best and most reliable player by far, got to fight tooth and nail to keep him, make him our top earner.
I was speaking to his dad last year and he said Man City were enquiring after him but he's happy were he is but his dad also said he wants him to win silverware.
I don't think Leighton is the type of player to force a move but he is at the age were it's make or break, hopefully he'll give us one more year to see if Martinez can do something with us.
Carl Sanderson
126 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:06:49
John 112:

Oh, I totally agree that it is a totally farcical situation; I just don't blame Moyes for it. Twelve months ago Kenwright should have said to him, "Sign this two-year extension or fuck off". But no, that would be too sensible. Instead Bullshit Bill lets him take his time and this is the result.

Some of the cash they are now offering for Baines should already be in Everton's coffers in the form of compensation for Moyes. I blame Kenwright.

Mike Walker
127 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:16:16
Did DM say "I will never come and try and buy an Everton player"?

Well, Go and Fuck Yourself, DM! He's NOT FOR SALE!!!

John Wingrove
128 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:58:10
I certainly want to keep Leighton at Everton - a great player, but I find it difficult to imagine that the decrepit little Man United Manager wouldn't have sounded out the player before making his approach (and offer) to Everton. One can only hope that our Chairman, supported and/or prompted by Martinez, continues to reject the advances, or forces an offer hat cannot be refused. Such an offer must not include any of their cast offs as a makeweight. I've been extremely surprised that our ex-saviour hasn't also come for one or more of his favourites, which include Osman, Howard, Anichebe and Pienaar.

I've also been amazed that no contributor to TW has commented on the revelation by our Chairman that "the previous regime" (Moyes) had no interest in allowing our under 21's to take part in the 'Next Generation' international competition. This has now been remedied for next season by, it would appear, our Chairman!

To summarise, how can a man who was lauded for 'bringing on' young players to the first team have made, and been allowed to make, such a decision to the detriment of our club, yet still retain the adulation he received by both many fans, the media and Man United. Perhaps others can make additions to those that Moyes may take credit for 'bringing through' over 11 years (i.e) Hibbert, Osman, Rodwell and Anichebe ..... Rooney should be omitted as he would have come through even had Dave Basset been our manager!

Jim Knightley
129 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:18:29
James...are really picking out incredibly high priced players to try and suggest we undersold? shall I point out Michu cost 2million and then claim we sold Pienaar for two much?
Pienaar had 6months of his contract left...that's why we let him go for 2million or thereabouts. Saha? was finished when we sold him. We've got a good price for Lescott, a good price for Rooney at the time, a great price for Andy Johnson, for James McFadden and others. We do not have a reputation for selling cheap. And selling Rodwell for 12million plus add ons...seems a pretty good deal to me? What has he done this season exactly? or the past two seasons before he left us?

Brian Harrison
130 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:05:38
The ball is very much in Baines court if he says he is happy at Everton then great but I cant see him turning down the chance to play Champions league. Time for Martinez to speak to the player and find out what he wants to do, and if he does want to leave get as much as possible and do it quickly.
Jim Knightley
131 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:21:58
Apologises for the multiple typos...I'm watching Spain vs Italy, and wrote that far too quickly. I really hope we don't play 3-5-2 under Martinez, but Italy were really showing its merits in the first half.
John Crawley
132 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:17:12
Fair comment Carl and I think that most of the blame undoubtedly lies with kenwright. But I also think it says a lot about Moyes as well. He's been more than happy to take his wages whilst effectively working for united and he's even making a derisory bid, leaking it to the press to try and unsettle the player AND getting paid by us into the bargain.
Harvey Miller
133 Posted 27/06/2013 at 20:45:59
The only truth is that you can't trust anything that is printed, published or otherwise shown. And of course you can't trust what i'm writing but all of us, we want news of this club, what's going to happen, will we get new faces. We don't know shit. There's rumours, half truth and outright lies.Everybody seems to have an idea of who we should get but it is based only on speculation from papers who's only purpose is to sell more papers.
A great football team has two good players for every place on the pitch and there is more than 11 places, it's more like 13 or more if you like to change the gameplan. So you need at least 26 pro players to fight for the top 4.
I really don't know how much money Martinez has or who he want's to buy.I have my own vision based only on what i've seen from the years i've followed the Blues (1966). I know that we need a goalkeeper, center back ( whether or not Johnny goes), two wingers (one a side), a playmaker and TWO strikers.
I know that all of these won't be filled. I hope we get a really good striker. For me, the best deal would be to change Fellaini with Rooney. I think Wayne doesn't want to go anywhere else, either he stays or it's Everton. I know, even two year deal would cost us dearly but we would get our own back in full swing. Probably would get us in the CL.
Dave Paul
134 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:22:05
Why is the piss taking ginger skeletor twat bidding for our players when we are still paying his fucking wages. This just is wrong and it shows no respect. He derserves loads of shit when he comes back for the way he has acted since hes left.
John Crook
135 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:24:53
Shocked that Moyes has come back in straight away for our best player. Worst and most crucial thing is both Moyes and Kenwright would of both known the minimum figure they would of accepted last season had Man Utd or any other big spender got aggressive with bids for Baines.

I'm pretty sure they would have accepted £18m last season had anyone bid that high. Baines is now a year older at 28 and whether he signs a new 4 year contract here or at Man Utd its basically his last long term contract and he will have no resale value.

I would imagine now that Man Utd will start slowly increasing the offer and we will be forced to cash in around 15 or 16m. I never have to this day used the term 'billy liar' and I trusted and believed Kenwright when he said he had told Moyes not to come back in for baines and fellaini. Its changed my feeling about Moyes upside down and inside out.

Of course I as well as everyone on here hope Baines stays. But how many times exactly in recent history have we been able to fend off bids from richer clubs?? If its gonna happen then get it done next week and we will move on!
Alan Smith
136 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:25:36
Swap deal for Rooney... what's the problem? I'd be over the moon if we got Rooney for £12m plus Baines.

Obviously I'd rather keep Baines as well, but Oviedo and Garbutt look decent. Could we tempt Luke Shaw?

Tom Owen
137 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:30:14
Every part of our club has serious faults.
Management of money and people is a joke.
If you look at other clubs could you imagine Levy running spurs like this clown runs our club.
I was not at the meeting on Wednesday but having read the transcript Kenwright once again comes across as an unpleasant individual (the rape comment) and is in total denial about our current and future positions.
Sir John Moores must be turning in his grave
Carl Sanderson
138 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:41:52
Tom 128:

Couldn't agree more: incompetent, arrogant, in denial. I could accept the arrogance if he was any good. But he isn't any good. He is a buffoon.

Andy Callen
139 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:34:23
I'd love to know how the bid was lodged - was Moyes doing the rounds, saying goodbye to some of the staff, the night before his last day, BK pops his head in to say goodbye before heading off on his jollies, ask DM if there is anything he wants or can do for him...

Personally I'm still grateful to Moyes for the way he turned the Club around, despite BK and his band of merry men. For me the true test of his integrity will be if he comes back with a second offer after being told he's not for sale nsno

Matt Traynor
140 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:09:39
Andy #134, of course he'll be back. He's at Man U now. Forget all about dignity, etc. they don't operate like that. They'll pull a Hughes and "talk to the decision makers".

As others have said, it'll come down to what Baines wants to do. Whilst we can hope he wants to stay, we can't fault him if he decides to show some ambition (he should to be honest) but that's when Operation Smear will take full effect, like it did for Arteta, Speed, Rooney and all the other players they've wanted to or had to sell down the years.

James Stewart
141 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:14:03
funny how Moyes valued Baines at 20m plus while he was here. Wanker.
Kenwright will be getting turned on though by the prospect of another big sale thats my worry....

Agree with the above comment Levy is some negotiator

Andy Crooks
142 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:14:10
It's no surprise that Moyes should come for Baines. Should we really expect Moyes to behave like an Evertonian? Of course not; he was a highly paid transient employee with ,it appears, an inflated reputation for integrity.
Kevin Tully
143 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:14:58
Imagine if Benitez had left Liverpool for Man U, and came back after 6 weeks with a bid for Torres.

We deserve everything we get.

Andy Callen
144 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:14:35
Matt #135 By making a bid so early will mean any attempt at operation smear will fail. As you say no one in their right mind could blame Baines for wanting to join them. A bid has been rejected, a new contract offer should be made, and he should have a month to make his decision.

A deadline beating deal on the 31st 'because he wanted to go' want wash this time, and if BK thinks he'll get away with that again he really is deluded nsno

Tony I'Anson
145 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:23:13
Player trading is part of the business model currently implemented by the club, and confirmed by Robert in his presentation last night.

Therefore, I fully expect Baines, Fellaini and Heitinga to be sold. The questions using this model should be how much; when and how much will be re-invested in new players?

Barry Rathbone
146 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:20:33
In the echo right next to the Baines story is an article entitled:

"Everton FC are at a crossroads, but I'll help, says David Moyes".

It sugar coats the ludicrous decision of not showing Moyes the door when his move was confirmed.

I actually laughed out loud.

What those just having their eyes opened to this self centred user are thinking lord only knows. All the bluster about integrity and doing favours for his beloved Everton must ring hollow.

Must feel like complete and utter mugs.

Paul Andrews
147 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:35:07
The club statement was made 2 weeks ago re giving Baines a new contract.
I and others posted that Moyes would be back off his holidays and be looking to make his signings before Utd tour.Best to get Baines signed up quick.
Why the fuck do we take an age to do the most obvious things.
Peter Laing
148 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:41:11
Moyes and Manchester United want Baines, Kenwright and Elstone will be sitting there like Laurel and Hardy scratching there heads looking for soundbytes, end result Baines will be on his way for a derisory fee as United and Moyes know all about Everton's perilous financial state.
Tom Owen
149 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:42:06
Paul 143
Because the world is made up of people that go out and do things and others that talk about doing things.
Personally I would prefer the Levy style of management.
I see spurs are about to sign Paulinho and once again we are selling probably the only player we have had for a number of years who would walk into any top European side.
Jon Withey
150 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:34:45
Baines probably deserves to be at a league winning club more than Moyes.

Which means he is worth more than 12 mil.

I suppose the question Martinez needs to ask is 'Are we going to get anyone better in the next 5 years ?' If not, sign him, pay him the decent wages and tell Moyes to do one.

If Baines wants to go, sell him to Monaco/Madrid and tell Moyes to do one.

Carl Sanderson
151 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:35:23
Moyes has obviously identified Baines as someone who is good enough to improve the current champions. Given that Baines is by common consent the best left-back in Europe, Moyes would be a fool not to want him.

I would be surprised, however, if it fell to Moyes himself to decide on the price that Manchester United offer for the player. (Even if it did, he would bid low at first.)

Paul Andrews
152 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:49:48
Peter Laing,

Correct.
If we negotiated Baines contract 2 weeks ago we would probably have agreed around about 20k increase on his reported 44k per week.
After the Utd interest and the wage they would pay him,imagine what his agent will ask for now.

Stephen Coles
153 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:53:43
So how old is Baines? the heading says '27 year old' then a few lines down it says 28 year old lol
Kev Johnson
154 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:57:13
Stephen - he's 28, 29 in December.
Ian Bennett
155 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:55:15
I'd like him to stay. He's the only truly world class player we've got. This might seem a little over hyped, but every time I saw him last season he was my pick of the players on show (ours or opposition) which is pretty rare for a left back. I'd offer a 4 year £65k a week contract and hope that would be enough to keep our little number 3.

If he wants out, I'd demand £18m and sign Luke Shaw as his replacement. I think he'll be class.

PS to the united fan who thought they could sweeten the deal with Fabio. One word, don't. He's shit.

Carl Sanderson
156 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:54:41
Paul:

That makes sense. If Baines is, as we all believe, the best left-back in the country then he can reasonably expect to receive a commensurate salary. (Wonder how much Ashley Cole gets?)

There is no way that Kenwright will pay what Baines is worth. Therefore Baines will leave; if he remains an Everton player on 1st September you can call me Rafa.

Dan Brierley
157 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:45:04
083, thanks again 'Sterling Ste', for your sterling contribution to this website. Your thought provoking and incredibly insightful posts are one of the main reasons why myself, and I am sure many others, come here. Keep up the good work, you should feel incredibly proud.

Your post at 991 is a beauty:

"Exactly the same things the phony was saying about Rooney 9 years ago so the player rather than BK himself will get the shit when the player is sacrificed."

Er, wasn't Rooney actually offered a contract that he rejected, and then immediately put a transfer request in? You think its ok for ex-players to kiss the United badge when scoring against us eh Ste? I am more than happy to be deluded if the alternative is your logic...

Paul Andrews
158 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:02:47
Frustrating Carl,
You don't need to be a genius to know that Moyes would come back for Baines.
Why are we never pro active,always reactive.

Sean Patton
159 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:02:34
Haha 12 million indeed

Still want to wish him well in his new job lads?

Just wait until he starts talking about Baines in his press conference this is only the start.

Tom P Owen
160 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:49:49
I agree with those who feel Moyes has shown a lack of respect, considering that Martinez probably hasn't had chance to speak with his players and the fact Moyes is still contracted to Everton.

I remember Moyes once saying "Everton don't sell their better players cheap, that's for sure."

ps: - It seems that there are TWO Tom Owens floating about on here. To differentiate, henceforth I'll put my middle initial 'P' in my name.

Tom P Owen
161 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:07:07
I missed off on the end of my previous comment #159, I'll be known as 'Tom P Owen' once the system processes it!
Harold Matthews
162 Posted 27/06/2013 at 21:47:32
It's all quite upsetting but none of it makes sense. Baines is not a United type fullback.
They use specialist wingers. We don't.
Their fullbacks are 75% defensive.

If Moyes goes for Baines the reason will be RVP. The deadly left wing crosses to the Dutch left-sided hot-shot will result in goals galore.

Leighton is my favourite player. Let's hope it's a hoax.

Bobby Thomas
163 Posted 27/06/2013 at 22:59:06
Tony I'Anson (140) has nailed it.

Thats the way we operate and its the way we keep the club running.

Unfortunately we havent had time to renegotiate with Baines and get a clause in. Unfortunately full backs just don't cost that much generally, especially when they are 28/29.

Glenn Johnson cost £18's, way overpriced, the English player premium kicking in again, when he was in his mid 20's.

When Baines goes, we wont get over £20 million, its not realistic.

Baines should be England first choice but Hodgson ain't gonna drop the 100-cap full back when he's got so many problems elsewhere.

Considering his age, form, ability, and if we test how much Man Utd want him, I think something around the Johnson fee would be correct.

It's up to us to push it.

Paul Andrews
164 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:05:39
Ste,
You are right in what you say about the on tract offered to Rooney.
The best young talent to emerge into English football was offered a 5 year contract that would rise year on year to 50k a week in the 5th year,starting at 15k in the first year.
A lot of money of course,but a fraction of what Utd gave him.

Don't forget the statement from Mr Chairman( who did not want to sell him)
"£50 million would not buy his left boot"
3 weeks later ........sells him for £20 million plus add ons.

William Fletcher
165 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:03:30
Moyes is manager of Everton until Sunday midnight; the conversation probably went like this:

Moyes as Man Utd Manager, "Can we have Baines for 12million pounds?"

Moyes as manager of Everton, "Fuck off, no you can't."

The mind boggles. Could only happen at Everton.

Geoff Freeman
166 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:03:53
There is only one person who will decide if Baines stays or goes and that will be Baines himself. BK and Roberto have made it clear that they wish him to stay and wish to offer him a new contract. So, if he decides he wishes to go, all we can hope for is to screw Moyes for the proper fee that the best left back in the country is worth.
Daniel Starkey
167 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:15:11
Never thought I'd ever say it but what a hypocritical c**t Moyes is or has become, he would have gone ballistic if he was still in charge and another club made a bid of 12m for Baines who must surely be in that 20m plus bracket.
Noel Early
168 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:06:12
Bill complained at the EGM about being 'raped' in 2011; well, how does this feel, Bill? Blue-eyed ginger-top Davie is fairly laughing at you now.

I would be gutted to see Leighton leave, in fact I would rather we made no signings this Summer if it meant he stayed.

Numerous comments on here about him needing to leave to raise his profile for the World Cup, did he not get voted onto Team of the Year playing with us? Have England qualified already?

I would really love if Kenwright came out and sued Moyes for breach of contract, have we become such a laughing stock that we get treated like this. I hope Martinez tells Bill he wants Leighton to stay as well.

Patrick Murphy
169 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:34:05
A piece of relatively good news is that Birmingham's Redmond has his heart set on a move to Everton — well, that's according to the Mirror anyway.
Steve Jones
170 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:23:30
Good point Geoff 165. Either he goes to Utd and has a shot at a league winners medal, but, with the manager that he's just back-handedly branded a bit of a dinosaur, or, he stays at Everton and becomes a pivotal figure in the Martinez 'progression'. Cool to be Bainesy tonight!.
Ste Traverse
171 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:05:48
Delusional Dan #156.

If you really believe that contract 'offer' to Rooney was a serious one with many top European clubs being linked with moves for him post-Euro 2004, then you're even more deluded than I thought.

It was little more than a token gesture from a desperate board who needed the money from the sale, and the player instead would feel the backlash rather than themselves.

A trick used by them many times post-Rooney.

David Holroyd
172 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:20:18
Felaini or Baines one will go because we will have no transfer kitty for Martinez to improve the squad.
Fraser Auld
173 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:51:06
Conor Skelly
943

"The worry I have about this, is that Moyes knows, in detail, the financial situation at Everton. It's a game of poker in which the opponent knows our hand. £15m will see this deal done."

Can't be put better or more concisely than that, sadly.

Ian Smitham
174 Posted 27/06/2013 at 23:51:21
I think that Leighton is a great player, possibly the best in his role at LB. He is an international player and England left back elect. He is not quite young, we have a player who is a left wing back from what I have seen, Oviedo, who I imagine earns alot less. The offer at £12m from Man U is probably an opening gambit, no one shows their best hand at the outset.

I do not like it but north of £15m will be hard to resist for a LB at his age with 2 years left on his contract. We have a replacement, already on the payroll and it seems to me to be a chance to get some money in to aid some sort of squad rebuilding. Sadly.

BTW, I never heckle a former blue until they bad mouth the club, and for one, I will hapilly clap LB if he goes, out of respect for his efforts over the last few years, he is paid well, but he carries my respect with him.

Ian

Mike Hughes
175 Posted 28/06/2013 at 00:03:27
If true...... David Judas Moyes, Stick your money up your arse. I hope you get sacked by Christmas. (I was neither IMWT or MOB but I hope and believe your career has already peaked.)

BK / RM – sort it out.Confederations Cup pundit, my arse.... Do your job. Get your priorities right.

Carl Sanderson
176 Posted 28/06/2013 at 00:11:54
From the Grauniad...

"As for Baines's thinking, the player came close to joining United last summer, as a target of Ferguson, and would relish the move to Manchester despite stating publicly that he is looking forward to working with the new Everton manager, Roberto Martínez."

It was good while it lasted, Bainsey.

Ryan Sloan
177 Posted 28/06/2013 at 00:19:29
At the end of the day, it does not matter what Man Utd do, he is our player. I would be gutted if he left but I think he will stay. He doesn't appear to be the type of lad to kick up a stink to leave... but, if he does, we should demand top dollar: £23 million minimum as I think he has a good 5 or 6 years left in him.
Alan Smith
178 Posted 28/06/2013 at 00:50:51
We should unsettle Rooney now with a counter bid, £250k a week and £20M transfer fee. See how Moyes likes that. Especially when it forces Barca and Madrid to act.
James Stewart
179 Posted 28/06/2013 at 01:13:41
Why on earth would we sell for less than we got for Lescott — who is nowhere near as good????!?!
Jack Cross
180 Posted 28/06/2013 at 01:50:38
Ian. I agree with everything you have said, mate. He's been a great servant and respect were it's due. He's a good lad, LB and no-one could ever fault his effort or his attitude on or off the pitch.
Paul Ferry
181 Posted 28/06/2013 at 03:43:45
spot on David - 174 - and James Stewart
136
Roman Sidey
182 Posted 28/06/2013 at 03:55:39
The thing is, if they get this deal done before Monday, Moyes hasn't broken his promise as he's not officially the United manager until then.
Roman Sidey
183 Posted 28/06/2013 at 03:55:39
The thing is, if they get this deal done before Monday, Moyes hasn't broken his promise as he's not officially the United manager until then.
Andrew Cutler
184 Posted 28/06/2013 at 04:57:06
Sheesh...a lot of people getting knickers in knots over rumour and heresay. Let's wait for facts til we slag everybody and everything. Sometimes this forum is SO negative
Eric Myles
185 Posted 28/06/2013 at 06:03:54
Andy #911 "I value him around the £30m mark." It doesn't matter what you value him at, it's what's accepted that counts, remember "I wouldn't sell Wayne for £50m"?


James #917 "If Baines is sold for that reported figure it will be the most disappointing transfer I have ever witnessed at Everton" I guess you're too young to remember Alan Ball.


Phil #942 "The only person to blame for that debacle is Pienaar for not signing a new contract with us" I blame the manager for not offering him what he was obviously worth at the time.

Ross #995 "and only a circus like Everton would allow a man to collect a month's wages for no work" Every company in the world does it, it's called redundancy, holiday pay, pay in lieu, etc.

Chris #079, stop talking common sense! See what you've started, you've got Carl #087 & #148 at it now!

Matt Traynor
186 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:11:27
Eric #205, I wish people would stop giving Blue Bill a hard time over Rooney. He said he wouldn't sell him for £50m, and he didn't!
Ray Roche
187 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:15:08
Eric Myles @ 205

Eric, that's a good shout about Ball, I remember being stunned when I heard that he'd gone. It was such a disappointment.The difference is, though, I think we got a lot of money at that time for Ball and if this report, £12m from Utd, is true, then it's a lot less than we deserve. Trouble is, Bungling Bill will just see the £ sign and Baines will be gone, with Bill fawning all over his Darling Davey in the process.

Michael Brien
188 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:08:50
A good principle to adopt in life I think, is to treat others as you would wish them to treat you. If you want people to respect you - then treat other people with respect. If David Moyes was the Everton manager I wonder how he would respond to a bid of £12M for Leighton Baines? I am sure that we all know the answer.

Although I wouldn't go as far as Mike Hughes #177 - I can understand his sentiments. My first reaction when I heard of this £12M bid whilst watching BBC News was one of anger and amazement at the audacity of David Moyes to make such an offer. We all know that he would have dismissed such an offer if it had been made whilst he was our manager. It shows a lack of respect to Everton to make such a poor offer for a player who is so highly regarded. I am sure that Roberto would have told David Moyes where to go - but also I am sure it would have been done very politely!!!

Perhaps Roberto should make an offer of say £6 or £7M for say Hernandez! But I reckon such disrespectful actions would be beneath our new manager - what a pity our old manager shows such little respect for a club that gave him so much. Yes David Moyes was good for Everton - but perhaps he should realise that it cuts both ways - Everton was good for him.

Mike Green
189 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:08:48
Blaine's and Fellaini out.

Kone, Alcaraz and McGeady in.

Hmmmmmm........

Ian Hollingworth
190 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:13:06
We are kidding ourselves if we think he is not for sale. If this rumour is true then sadly it will happen. It should not happen for less tha n £20 m and even at that I will be gutted.

Moyes is still on our payroll and not officially the manure manager yet.... What a fucking joke of a club we are.

How much longer are we going to put up with Kenwright?

Paul Andrews
191 Posted 28/06/2013 at 07:46:39
David will do what David always does.
He will look after his own interests,he did it all the time when he was our manager.
Continuous moaning to the press about lack of transfer funds,then signs the improved contract regardless.
Let his contract run down,so a skint Everton received no compensation and he could negotiate better terms for himself.
He won't give two fucks for his previous club or its fans when he cherry picks our players.

A man full of dignity though eh?

Colin Glassar
192 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:15:15
Paul Andrews, I've stated on here many times in the past my distrust, and dislike, of ginger both as a manager and individual. Now, due to his backstabbing hypocrisy, I feel fully vindicated. I can't stand the man and I hope he is hounded out of OT after failing miserably.
John Gee
193 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:20:14
Even if LB makes up his mind to stay you can guarantee that dickhead will be on the phone to him to remind LB that it's a world cup year and Ashley Cole is playing CL football and at 28 it could be his last chance.

I wanted this job to blow up in his face. Now I'm so disappointed in that prick that I'll even be supporting the RS when they play them. He's used his inside knowledge and Kenwright HAS to stop our club from being Utd's bitch.

Kevin Tully
194 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:37:40
I said he would take the tea lady if he thought it would give him ANY advantage in his new job. Can you imagine Levy letting AVB stay on if he was going to Arsenal, and then taking Bale?

Moyes said he would give us all the help we need when he leaves, what a guy!!

Derek Turner
195 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:32:30
Horrible poisonous little man,

The only thing that annoys me more than this pathetic bid is the prospect of another horrible poisonous little man kissing our badge with his greasy lips. Rooney! Really guys?

As for 15m being good for a 28/29 year old, well, technically he is going into his prime. The next three to four will be his best. Who cares about resale value, what about getting into the top four? I think that that ought to cover the lack of resale. We don't have to be a selling club if we keep characters such as Bainsy around. I reckon he would stay if we offered him a good contract, he has never seemed like those tossers from Sunderland and the RS. Come on Roberto, kick the ginger one into touch.

Paul Andrews
196 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:42:26
Colin Glassar,

I have never trusted him.
A complete phoney in my opinion.
Took the kings shilling and kept schtum over all the crap going on in the background.A human shield for Kenwright as he took the club further and further down.
Kenwright will play poodle to Moyes on this one.Trust me if they offer £15 mil he's gone.

Stuart Gray
197 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:18:37
OK, firstly If we got £15m-£20m for Baines, it wouldn't be the worst deal in the world if we replaced him with Luke Shaw for say £10m-£12m.

Baines is brilliant as an attacking LB but maybe that doesn't fit into Martinez's style of play and he'll be less effective? I'm not convinced that he is the best defender in the world so he defends by attacking.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want him to leave but if he does go for a good price and we get a good replacement then it isn't the end of the world. Who would blame him for wanting to a) win something and b) further his England chances.

One ridiculous thought I had was, what if BK asked DM to put a bid in. Then he turns it down and Baines stays. Make it look like he's a strong Chairman and shows we are building a team rather than selling our best players.

Phil Sammon
198 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:42:52
I agree with you there Derek.

If we got an offer of £18million - which many see as about right - I'd still turn it down. Baines is a professional lad and will continue to fight for the club even if was tempted to go to Man Utd. His value on the pitch will never be equaled by the the sum we may receive.

I say keep him and get another 5 or 6 years of great service.

Sell Heitinga - even if its only for 3 million. Get that 50k pw off the books.
Sell Fellaini if the money's right - though I wouldn't mind keeping him if not.

Mat Fearon
199 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:52:44
There is a huge amount of nonsense being spouted here.
Moyes is manger of Man U, and it does not really matter whether that is from last month, this week, or next week, that is his new job and where his loyalty now resides.
He wants a new left back, and LB is the best there is, and Man U want to pay as little as they possibly can for him, that's is how it works. The situation would be exactly the same if we bid for a Wigan player. Do you expect Man U to come in with an initial bid of 20m?
And why on earth would Rooney come here when the World Cup is next year and he needs champions league football; oh, and arsenal and PSG are interested aswell.
Tom Dodds
200 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:44:07
Mike Green (#210):

Dead on. When will the penny drop that all we have left to try and change things with this Chairman and 'board' is to daub the banners and take to the streets (outside GP)....attract TV etc etc...

As I've posted so many times here, the Reds as I'm sure everyone will agree, would not take these continuous embarrassing, sickening, shameless, belittling, fucking ad infinitum shite broken-promised theatricals for a single season.

Kenwright, man or mouse ??.....

Pass him the fucking cheese!!!

Ged Simpson
201 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:05:47
Far too logical Mat F (222)
Daniel Starkey
202 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:03:59
Mat
Come off it, 12m, he must know that price would be unacceptable, I'm disgusted with him, it's an insult.
Sam Hoare
203 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:07:54
Agree with Mat. Ridiculous anger towards Moyes, Baines has been linked strongly to Man U for the last two years, Evra has now gone past his peak and they need a new left back so in comes a low starting bid.

The important questions are: Does Baines want to leave? At what price does selling a 28 year old left back make sense? What price are Man U willing to go up to?

If the lad wants to go and have a shot at titles and champions league then I cannot blame him. I would say that anything around the £20m mark would be decent business from our perspective although he would of course be a big loss.

Ray Roche
204 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:16:32
I very much doubt if Moyes has anything to do with the setting of transfer fee offers. You can bet your life that at, say, Spurs, AVB will have nothing at all to do with transfers. Levy will do the negotiating, same at most clubs. The manager may indicate which players he'd like and hand it over to the likes of Levy or Collecott. Managers have naff all to do with finances and Utd are no exception.
Ged Simpson
205 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:20:25
I just have a feeling he is happy with us and, unlike many of the numpties who play the game, he has interests outside football so moving to Utd may not be the be all and end all.
Ciarán McGlone
206 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:20:44
"There is a huge amount of nonsense being spouted here.
Moyes is manger of Man U, and it does not really matter whether that is from last month, this week, or next week, that is his new job and where his loyalty now resides"
-----------------

Yes there is loads of nonsense...your post being typical of it.

We have a manager still under contract who is bidding for our players...That is an absolute disgrace.

People have lauded Moyes for years about being a bastion of integrity and dignity...ever since the 'Howard' episode - where he put his relationship with Ferguson above what was best for this club...It has been clear to me that his integrity is a myth..

Now that opinions been pretty much validated.

He has done far worse that anything Mark Hughes ever did...and not only is he being a snake, he's being derisory as well..

12 million my arse!

John Gee
207 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:14:22
There are too many idiots on here who can't see past a '£' sign. If we sell the best left back in Europe and one if the best defensive midfielders in Europe, will we be able to afford a better replacement in those positions? Don't bother trying to think, it's obviously hard for you. The answer is a big NO!

BTW, how so all people who gave Moyes a standing ovation feel now that he's strong arming us?

Al Reddish
208 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:31:08
I would hate to lose Baines but as he is a really good lad I would also hate to deny him the chance of winning the top medals in the game and a crack at champions league footy. He has got to be in the top three best left backs in the world and his talent deserves to be shown at the highest stage. All those who says he needs Pienaar are wrong. He played as well when we sold nuts and does well for England too. The worry is we don't get what we deserve for him but we never sell cheaply and neither did Martinez at Wigan. This may open up a bidding war as Arsenal and Bayern were said to be keen last year. Luke Shaw is a great shout as a replacement. I would love Bainsey to stay as he is the best left back I have ever seen at Everton, just shading Van Den Hauwe, but if he decides its medals he wants then he goes with my blessing.
Ged Simpson
209 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:24:36
It's not an insult. It is business. What do you expect ? If we had loads of money you'd expect our manager to try and get the best players for as little as possible. Of course we would all hate to lose Baines but I think it is a bit precious and thin skinned by some on hear to expect special treatment. Next you'll be saying how lovely our club is because we punch above our weight.
Kevin Tully
210 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:20:20
You're right fellas. I sincerely hope Moyes goes on to great success, taking our players if he wants. He deserves it, he is a wonderful man who saved us from the Conference. As Bill said 'One of the all time great mangers."

Steven Telford
211 Posted 28/06/2013 at 08:51:13
IF Moyes does this, at this time, and in this fashion, it will be immensely disrespectful to us.
If he had done it because another bid had been placed, and Bains had said he wanted to leave, that would be different, but to do it like this.

I hold David Moyes in high esteem, but this would probably be something that changes this. And does Kenwrong have any idea how dumb he will look if this happens..

Martinez needs to get his ass back from that FIFA micky mouse cash cow cup, and shore up things at his new home.

Alan Humphreys
212 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:29:26
"Everton have told Manchester United that Leighton Baines is not for sale at any price..."

That should be it then, if Moyes is the principled man many believe he is..

Then again, money corrupts...

He knows how important he is for us, I only hope when he brings Manure to Goodison, the happy clappers out there remember he's already started to shit on us whilst still technically employed by us ( could be said that started a while back).

Stuart Eaton
213 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:32:53
Its a shame we havent got them at Goodison in the first game of the season again to put Moyes under pressure after a battering.
Ged Simpson
214 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:32:46
Jesus some of you have a naïve view of the modern game. You expect Moyes and Man Utd to "play nice ?" Was never gonna happen. As for in integrity of the man, most of that was claimed by the media who like "little Everton" and BK.
Andy Rogers
215 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:39:55
Born 11 December 1984. So he is 28 — not 27.
Steve Jones
216 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:28:46
Stuart 220

There's no player in the current squad, save for perhaps Coleman, who is more suited to Martinez's style of play. On paper, at least, Martinez, able to play with two of the best wing-backs in the division, is a tantalising prospect. Baines will be pivotal in the way Martinez wants to develop our style.

If Martinez has a say, which is the way Moyes had it, I'd imagine the 'not for sale' is genuine. Bainesy has spoken to Martinez now as well so I'd guess he knows a little of the key role he'll have in the new system. Its going to come down to the player whether he wants to leave for the medals or stay and be part of the new order. Simple as that.

Daniel Lawrence
217 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:34:46
Why would Luke Shaw come here anyway?
Mat Fearon
218 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:35:53
Ciaran,

It must be nice living in your naive world. Man Utd are bidding for Baines, not Moyes, and nothing prevent them from doing it even if Moyes is employed by Everton for a few more days (and yes obviously he will have sanctioned it).

And what do you expect? For them to come in with a initial offer of £20M? £12M is just the starting point of the negotiation. That is how it works. And anyway, if it going to happen, let's get it over with so we can then do something with the cash.

Al Reddish
219 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:56:57
Why wouldn't Luke Shaw come here?
James Marshall
220 Posted 28/06/2013 at 09:46:34
Peoples reaction on here is surprising to say the least.

First of all, to all the people complaining about Moyes still being contracted to Everton and making bids for our players - does it also piss you off that Martinez isn't actually our manager yet and yet he is making bids for players? I don't see any of you complaining about that? Double standards gents.

Secondly, can you all stop bloody arguing? We're all supposed to be Evertonians and therefore have a common goal - debate is one thing, but personal insults are pointless and so many threads on here lately have descended into rows it's getting tiresome and nobody wins.

So, Baines...

Man Utd & Moyes £12m bid is merely testing the water. It's simple business strategy and everybody does is. Have you ever bought a secondhand car? You always bid low, simple principal to test out the seller.

Moyes is fully aware of Everton's valuation of the player, and knows exactly how Kenwright does business, so he'll be back with another offer and the price will go up, and we'll either sell at the right price, or we'll keep him. Unless Baines puts in a transfer request which seems unlikely but not out of the question.

Baines is 29 in December, so lets say Utd offer him a 4 yr contract, that would mean he's coming up 33 at the end of it, which means he has very little re-sale value. This alone drops his market value. He's also a full-back so to all the people citing Daniel Levy & Gareth Bale at £85 are way wide of the mark - there's simply no comparison whatsoever. We all know attacking players go for more money, and although Baines is an attacking full-back, he's still technically a defender so his price is lower.

Given that it's an initial offer and that it's Manchester United that have made a bid, not David Moyes, people really need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. Roberto Martinez is widely regarded as coveting various Wigan players, but that seems to sit OK with you all because you support Everton - that doesn't really make a whole lot of justification for your bitterness.

Other people are already laying into Baines, saying we should 'give him a hard time' when he comes to Goodison (if we sell him), but why? Do you hate every player we've ever sold? Of course you don't. It's business, and no player is (cliche time) bigger than the club, never forget that.

This entire process has only just started, and Baines will probably be sold because every player has his price, much like Fellaini, though nobody seems bothered that he might be sold either, which again seems like double standards.

Knee-jerk reactions to initial transfer bids are really quite ludicrous.

Jason Lam
221 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:05:20
Moyes knows all too well about our financial position that 12M will be just enough for the banks to cash in.
Al Reddish
222 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:03:39
http://www.premierleaguepredictions.com/blog/transfer-truth-the-truth-on-baines-to-manchester-united?
Nice little read that may add some perspective.
James Marshall
223 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:20:17
Al#249

To be fair, that site is just a blog written by someone. It doesn't hold any more weight than anything anyone writes on these forums.

My post above highlights the 'truth' of the transfer just as much.

Al Reddish
224 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:29:52
You're right James, I was meaning the point that no official confirmation from Everton or United has been reported so we don't really know if the bid is that low or if it even exists at all.
Just read elsewhere we will be signing McGeady (£6m) Kone (£5m) Alcara (free) and maybe Robles this weekend. Not really inspiring names. It also claims Fellaini's release clause runs out in 6 weeks time. Be nice if we can keep hold of him until then.
Darren Gough
225 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:12:03
Only stat that matters:

Leighton Baines created 116 goalscoring chances last season, 12 more than any other player in the Premier League.

You are effectively buying goals for your strikers. Hence he should be a high value purchase. Plus he scores too.

James Marshall
226 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:35:43
Darren#253 - Coming from a washed up cricketer, why should we believe anything you say? Just kidding mate ;-)

It's a fair point you make about him being a creator of goals, and scorer of a few as well - I'm still not convinced he'll go for anything like the £20/£30m people are quoting on here. That seems like Football Manager fantasy to me.

Al#252 - good point that Everton haven't officially commented, and likewise neither have Utd. It's early days and time will tell. I'm not inspired by those signings either, especially McGeady - he's always seemed like a bit of a show-pony to me, with little or no end product.

Kone is a bit old but then we can't afford a young striker so might be our only option up front.

Alcaraz seems like a good idea, since we'll only have to pay his wages.

Robles?

Mike Gwyer
228 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:28:26

James Marshall #245.

Your post is sort of right and you are making a good effort trying to pin this transfer on ManU instead of Moyes.

However, Moyes is the manager. He makes the decisions and Manu will go for the players Moyes wants. Therefore, Moyes makes the call.

I personally had hoped that Moyes would have told his money men to lay off all Everton players, thereby waiting for any bidding to start for the likes of Baines or Fellaini. Then, whoa and behold, Moyes could of jumped in and said that ManU will pay the correct price for a player who is currently rated with the most assists in Europe (and it ain't 12 million).

I had a lot time for Moyes, IMO he took Everton to a higher level - now the fucker needs a good slap.

James Marshall
229 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:49:04
He and Utd are as entitled as any other club to make bids for any other clubs players. It's naive to think he won't come back for our players.

Martinez is (apparently) doing exactly the same thing but nobody seems to mind that!

There have been a lot of calls from people on here to buy Mcmanaman & Maloney et al....

Really, what difference does it actually make if Moyes or Wenger, or Mourinho or anyone else buys our players? It doesn't make a blind bit of difference.

Matty Dawkins
230 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:55:55
James, the difference is that Dave Whelan has said his players are for sale, whereas Kenwright has said that Baines is not!
Tom R Owen
231 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:07:55
James 245
So we are not allowed to debate on an open forum just agree with you instead! Ok
My comments about Levy were(if you care to re read it) that he is a far stronger man manager and shrewder than our chairman.
Daniel Starkey
232 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:08:05
Ged
Good business, since when has it been good business to make an absurd offer that you know won't be accepted, it's pointless and insulting.
James Marshall
233 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:18:07
Tom#261 - read my post again. I said a big yes to debate and a big no to arguing.

You appear to be leaning toward the latter :-)

Darren Gough
234 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:17:26
James #255 That's cold dude ;-)

For me, never has a player's stats been such a measure of the fee they should command. He's simply one of the most consistently influential players in the game at the moment.

I'd hate to see Baines go, but I think we just state we won't entertain any bid under £30M (or whatever fee we agree would make a huge difference to our overall team) and leave it at that. If he goes for that, fair enough - that's football and we could certainly use it to boost the team in several areas.

Noel Early
235 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:15:06
I'm maybe cynical, following Everton seems to do that to people unfortunately. But I'm pretty sure Moyes and Kenwright waited until the EGM was over before this Baines news became public. Could you imagine the uproar there would have been had the news broke the day before? It all seems too convenient in my opinion.

Moyes has let us down badly with his behaviour by first refusing to sign a new contract and therefore we received no compensation. We can all be sure we knew Fergie was retiring at seasons end.

It all leaves a sour taste in my mouth, and we wonder why people call us the Bitter Blues.... Who can blame us? Our ex-manager bids £12M for the best left back in the Premier League knowing what he means to us. Disgraceful behaviour!

Jon Withey
236 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:18:31
It's just negotiation. Try bartering in any country where people don't get upset about these things, e.g. Morrocco.

First seller gives ridiculous price, then buyer counters with silly offer..ad infinitum until something is agreed or not.

Anyway, if they can get 20 million and save on the increased wage bill then, Moyes or not, you'd expect them to consider it as a business.

Oviedo and a youngster to replace one of the *proven* best players in the country...it has to be a serious amount of cash and a decent plan to replace him.

Kevin Tully
237 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:16:27
James #245.

The Levy & Bale comparison was made because he conducts club business with one thing in mind - Spurs. (Don't know what position the player plays in has to do with anything??)

We have a gobshite Chairman who on the verge of tears every time you listen to him, and I don't trust a word he says about any transfer. (Not businesslike at all)

Moyes should have left on gardening leave as soon as he was announced as the Man Utd boss. Any other club in the top 6 would have packed his case for him. Didn't have to be nasty - just...businesslike.

He, and he alone has decided to go for Baines, and pay as little for him as he possibly can. He also holds insider information on what price we will accept. He also has a personal relationship with said player. He also knows he is our best player, and we are desperate for cash.

So I will call a c**t if you don't mind.


Ged Simpson
238 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:29:52
Of course he will do that Kevin. It's his job for man Utd.


As you say " just...businesslike".

Al Reddish
239 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:25:05
It's a bit like Rodwell. At one point people were saying he is worth at least £20m if you compare him to Henderson etc. He went for £12m and then people were saying we did well to get that for a bench warmer.
Looking at it like that though Baines has got to be worth a lot more than our Jack.
Just heard that twat Quim on Talkshite going on about 'plucky little Everton having their tiny heads ground into the Premiership dirt by the mighty Man United'. The guy is an embarrassment.
Tom R Owen
240 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:28:25
James 263#
It is a fine line between debate and argument - particularly in when written.
Sadly at the end of the what ever we say Kenwright is still in charge!
Ged Simpson
241 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:33:11
Daniel "it's pointless and insulting."

And often effective sadly

Iain Johnston
242 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:24:20
Dave Greenwood, If Jordi Alabi is the only player who comes close I'd worry. Swansea have just paid £2.5m for him.
Is this Moyes trying to unsettle a player he knows is about to negotiate a contract? Yes.
The opening bid is an insult. I wont be happy if he leaves but, £20m plus Evans or Jones would make me feel a little better.
James Marshall
243 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:33:27
Kevin#268 - Fair enough. The position a player plays in does matter, not because I say so, go look at the value of players historically. Flair players, and goal scorers are where the big money is at, not defenders.

I rarely hold any bitterness these days where football is concerned, and maybe that's the (apparent) difference between me and many supporters. I gave up being angry about these little things, because at the end of the day, they really don't make any difference.

If Baines goes to Man Utd, or he goes to the moon, he's still going to be an ex-Everton player and that's all the matters.

Does it bother you that Roberto Martinez is on the lookout for new recruits, some of them from Wigan?

Jim Knightley
244 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:22:19
I would be gutted if he goes...he is my favourite player. There is no one in our squad as relatively good in his position as Baines. He is also so central to everything we do.

The 12million offer is not that surprising...for us it's frustrating of course, but for a starting offer for a 28 year old full back with 2 years left on his contract, it's not derisory. What negotiation process starts with an offer at market value? Unless Liverpool are doing the buying of course. The one that springs to mind recently is Arsenal's opening 5mil bid for Arteta...before agreeing a 10mil offer. Negotiation is just business. Personally, I expect they would be willing to pay 15/16million, but I don't expect we would sell for anything less than 18million. The only way i'd be slightly less aggrieved to see Baines leave, is if Hernandez is involved in some capacity (would love a loan with an option to buy...although it is unlikely). But I think Hernandez would solve every striking problem with have...and if we could get on loan, with a buy fee of 10 million ish, and 15/16 million for Baines, it may benefit us long term. But personally, I do not think we have any left back anywhere near talented enough in this squad. Oviedo is far too lightweight, and has not looked good enough. Garbutt has next to no experience. I would love Luke Shaw...but personally, I think he will hold out for a move to Chelski.
But I do not want us to sell Baines. I think he is too important to the way we play. And if Martinez does change our system...which I think he might, Baines will become even more valuable.

James Marshall
245 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:38:18
Iain#273 - Swansea just bought Jordi Amat, not Jordi Alba. Alba plays for Barcelona and is highly unlikely to go to Swansea any time soon, mate!
Tom R Owen
246 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:37:08
Sounds like we at get the kid Redmond from BCFC
Tom R Owen
247 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:37:08
Sounds like we at get the kid Redmond from BCFC
Matt Traynor
248 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:35:51
To all those touting Luke Shaw as a replacement, he's already on the radar of top 4 clubs. That doesn't include us I'm afraid. Also, he signed a new 5 year deal last season, but if he does go, it will be for Baines money - that also kind of rules us out as well.

Pity this blew up the day after the EGM though isn't it? Still, there's always the AGM next year for the "right of reply".

Kevin Tully
249 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:38:50
James - If I was a Wigan supporter, I would be doing my nut in, BUT, have we bid for any Wigan players? They have also been relegated, so I wouldn't blame any Everton International for wanting to leave, if we were in the Championship.

It also make a massive difference, if they request a transfer, as Kone supposedly has.

Don't forget, as Man Utd manager, Moyes has the pick of most left backs in world football - so he's a twat to want to take our best player, when he has the money and pulling power to take his pick. A Scottish, miserable ginger twat.

James Marshall
250 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:45:29
It's a free market, simple as that, and Baines is quality - of course Moyes wants him at Utd!

It's a no-brainer really. Why on earth would he want to buy a player from another league when Baines is on his doorstep? Put yourself in his position for a minute....

Al Reddish
251 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:49:14
Kevin, Moyes does have the pick of the best left backs in the world, that's why he wants Baines. Who wouldn't?
Alan Smith
252 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:49:31
Moyes has no need for a left back and the offer is derisory. Would he sell Rooney for £18M?

He's using his inside knowledge of a club that he messed around for six months, to try and steal a world class left back on the cheap.

I hope he has a big transfer kitty too because I'd be looking at a centre mid and winger if I was him as well as forward if Rooney goes.

Kevin Tully
253 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:54:21
James / Al - No problem, all blues together, but don't try to defend the man - it's insulting.

He knows Baines is pretty much irreplaceable to us, and he knows how much Tiny Tears wants for him. We will be a lot weaker if he leaves, that's why he's a twat, he's not even officially left the club yet - lack of respect all round.

James Stewart
254 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:57:19
United would be better off going for Shaw. I don't think Moyes would be bidding if Baines didn't fancy the move. Sad if he goes top top player
Kieran Fitzgerald
255 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:45:26
I'm not overly bothered if Baines goes. Yes, he is a class player but we are never going to get the best out of him with what's around him on the pitch. If we play hard ball with Utd or any other club interested in him, we could get 15m to 20m for him. We lose our best player but could get in three or four decent players who improve us all over the pitch. Better quality of football, better competition for places which means players will also try harder, better chances of a decent season overall.

For me, I don't see much difference between selling Baines and selling Fellaini. One of them may have to go if we are to see the improvements we need to an ageing squad in midfield and up front. I would rather see us be proactive than sit on our hands and do nothing.

James Stewart
256 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:00:01
Lost what little respect I had left for Moyes over this. Like many have said he is technical still under contract here. A massive lack of respect. He could have his pick of most players in the world now yet he returns with an insulting bid to his former club. He can fuck right off.
Al Reddish
257 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:59:53
I wasn't defending him. I supported him when he was with us. I will now support Martinez. Moyes is now Utd manager so to me he is history. I am just saying I can see why he would want Baines.
Matt Traynor
258 Posted 28/06/2013 at 11:59:36
Kevin #286 I understand your ire, but we know what our business model is. We need to sell a top player every 1-2 years to service debt, and bring in other players.

Right now there's no serious movement for Fellaini, which suggests that Baines has to be the sacrificial lamb.

I wouldn't have put it past the biggest Blue to have realised this, and pretty much offered him to Moyes, with the initial refusal just part of the charade.

So that means we will have Fellaini for another year, but hopefully by the end of next season, Mirallas will be worth a bit more - he'll have 2 years left on his deal then too.

That is the Everton way under our ownership. We should be used to it by now.

Russ Quinlan
259 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:05:27
As was mentioned on SSN last night, Moyes is still officially manager of Everton so he's trying to bid for his own player !!!
Kevin Tully
260 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:06:52
Matt - Hopefully some will see through our 'business model' and we will see the back of them sooner rather than later (20 more years makes me want to do a Tiny Tears impression!)

You watch for the final insult now, £14m and a Manc reserve. I fooking hate football.

Paul Andrews
261 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:09:39
What is wrong with this £12 mil bid is that Moyes,having been in total control of ALL incoming and outgoing transfers knows that we knocked back a £12 million bid from Utd last year as not being enough.
Yet he comes back with the same bid?

Man of dignity indeed.

Ged Simpson
263 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:11:03
Out of all sports on the planet, football has the least "respect", "integrity" and "loyalty." So why everyone is suddenly expecting a huge dose of it because DM moved on is beyond me ..........especially from many who called him a twat for years. I just about stay a fan but I do realise I am a fan of a business (which is really silly really) and really I support the equivalent of a corner shop. So don't tend to be too surprised if Tesco's piss on us.
Ged Simpson
264 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:18:23
Too many "really's" above - sorry. Lost it.
Paul Andrews
265 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:18:57
Ged,

Is like your good mate telling you how much he is selling his house for.
" I have got it on the market for 300k but my long term prospects are not looking good,so between me and you I would take 250k"

Then you go and tell your other mate to bid 250k.
Whichever way you look at it, it's a backhanded move from Mr Righteous.

Bobby Thomas
266 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:28:22
If Martinez cant maintain the league position and/or, more importantly,buy players with big sell on value we could be headed for trouble.

What happens when there are no good players to sell?

Oh well, theres always Mirallas, Coleman and Barkley, so we should be ok till roughly 2020 anyway.

We are fucked.

Steven Telford
267 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:16:30
Going back for players from a relegated club, is a completely different matter. I don't see the double standards that some people are referencing.

Moyes has made a very disrespectful bid - its not "somebody else" at Man Utd who put the bid in, its the manger. If another big club (title rival) had bid and Baines said he wanted to go, then Moyes stepped in with a bid, that would be fine. But the timing and blatant undervaluation are the issue.

Yes, people can say, it's business practice to put in a low opening bid – maybe one 20% below valuation, but £12M is an absolute piss take. It says to me Moyes real aim is about £18M which again is not enough. Baines is worth £25M. His assets, his (amazing) fitness record, his character, and age.

Ged Simpson
268 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:33:43
But what if he does well and we improve Bobby. Then you're fucked !
Ged Simpson
269 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:35:58
Steven : "Yes, people can say, its business practice to put in low opening bid, - maybe one 20% below valuation, but 12 is an absolute piss take."

Would love to see your criteria for what constitutes business practice and what is a piss take. Usually a piss take is just what the weaker party in the negotiations calls it and the stronger calls it good business practice.

Kev Johnson
270 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:45:30
Never mind all that - where the 'New Kit' thread gone? It's disappeared!
Tony J Williams
271 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:35:13
Was anyone expecting anything else? If the offer was genuine, EFC have done the correct thing and told Moyes where to go.

All this bollocks about integrity and all the over the top hurt is embarrassing. The fucker works for the enemy now, so why would he do anything at all that benefits Everton but is detrimental to him new employers?

He is doing nothing he hasn't always try to do for us, buy low and sell high.

Man U have been sniffing around Baines for a while now and his name was probably already on the hit list given by Fergie before he retired.

I hope Baines will stay, we certainly need him but like with Arteta, you can see why he would move, Champions League footy and a very good chance of silverware.

James Marshall
272 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:44:09
Steve#302

My reference to the Martinez going back to Wigan players has nothing to do with them being relegated and everything to do with him not being our Manager until July 1st, the same as Moyes at Utd. That's the thing people have conveniently forgotten.

The fact Wigan are in the Championship doesn't mean a damn thing. Why does that make it any different?

As for the basis for a low bid - Arteta was originally bid £5 by Arsenal - we sold him to them for £10m which is obviously double their initial bid.....I think you can see where I'm going with this ;-)

Paul Andrews
273 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:45:59
.......I think I can James,but not 100% sure.
How much do you think we can up the price to?
Jim Knightley
274 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:42:40
When looking at the two respective situations, if not for one issue I will mention in a moment, I think Martinez going for Wigan players is worse. I believe this because Martinez's contract did not expire... but he was allowed to go to Everton. Moyes's contract was expiring... so why wouldn't he go back for his most consistent player, at an area in which Man Utd clearly need to bring someone in? Would we be this aggrieved if United offered us £24M for Fellaini?

But... Moyes is still under contract at Everton, and consequently, it's a disgrace that a bid has come in before the 1st of July. United could easily have waited a week. This is not the way a club of United's statue should operate. And Moyes should have the foresight to warn his club to wait, as there is no way this offer was made without his consent.

And there is no absolute criteria for piss-taking when it comes to offers. Personally, I think offering two-thirds of what many have stated as a likely market value for Baines (eg, £18M) is not bad going. Btw, anyone see the Swedish film 'A Hijacking' recently? It offered an interesting insight into the process of negotiation.

The news on Redmond looks interesting... I hope it's true. I don't see a £2M-ish rumored fee to be much of a risk for an English player as their sell-ons are always very good.

James Marshall
275 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:56:03
Paul#309 - I reckon something around £17m is sensible.
Paul Andrews
276 Posted 28/06/2013 at 12:59:22
James,

I would hope he stays regardless,if there is a better left back in Europe he must be some footballer.
In my opinion if they offer £15 million he is gone.

John Crook
277 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:08:38
Does anyone think there is a chance that Baines will 'force' through a move?? How much influence will the banks have if they learn there is an official £17 or £18 million bid in the next few weeks?
James Marshall
278 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:19:14
A few worth mentioning:

Jordi Alba
Marcelo
Phillipe Lahm
Felipe Luis
Fabio Coentrao

Drew O'Neall
279 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:23:41
Even Mick Quinn said £20m on Talk Shite today.
Matthew Williams
280 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:33:44
I take it the £12 mill was for his right foot! Cheeky fucking Mancs... add another £20 million to the price & let Rooney come home on the cheap. If not, do one then, yer greedy pricks!
Paul Andrews
281 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:37:08
I would not swap any of the left backs you mention for Baines, although I have not seen a great deal of any of them besides on TV.

Lahm as you know is currently plying his trade at right back, but has previously played left side.

Richard Reeves
282 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:07:56
When Kenright stated recently in Martinez's press conference that he had told Moyes none of the current squad are for sale with the exception of Fellaini because of the release clause, we all knew it was another lie or conveniently shortened sentence. The second part of that sentence would of continued, "but if the right price came in...... "

I don't believe Kenwright would ever tell another club that a player is not for sale without somehow getting the message across that he is as it's how he survives and consequently how we have for the last 11 years.

I think Baines will go and so too Fellaini... so, according to Kenwright, Martinez should get a war chest of around £40 mill with those two sales and the extra money he was promised before player sales.

That's what Kenwright said: Martinez will have some money to spend and ALL the money from any player sales.

Ste Traverse
283 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:22:39
Is this James Marshall bloke for real? Calling it double standards because we are currently being linked with players who took Wigan down?

Most of us don't fucking want them.

James Marshall
284 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:50:07
Ste - yeah I'm for real. It's the same situation. Marinez starts same day as Moyes.

If you can enlighten me to the differences in the situation, then please, I'm all ears. And don't tell me it's because they got relegated - that has zero bearing on anything. This is about people being upset Moyes is trying to buy players from his old club, despite not being in the job yet = same as Martinez.

What on earth does the fact Wigan got relegated have to do with anything?

Al Reddish
285 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:48:49
Ste, he has a point though, a lot of Man Utd fans on the radio today don't want Baines either.
Lori Fekete
286 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:57:48
Someone tell Moyes that he's not at Everton anymore and can make proper bids.
And while your at it, tell him he's a cunt.
Harold Matthews
287 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:44:12
SSN. The bid is £10 million.... Rejected.

Also: "Bolton South Korean international winger Chung Yung Lee might be putting on a blue shirt."

"Redmond wants to come to Everton."

"No truth in Fer to Canaries rumour but the lad is very keen to play in the Premier League."

1:00 pm Fri.

Ste Traverse
288 Posted 28/06/2013 at 13:55:18
There's a world of difference between wanting one of the world's best left backs and an international than a load of hasbeens and journeymen which relegated the Pie-eaters last season which many of us don't want anyway.

How would that prick have reacted to a £12m offer for Baines when he was our manager? Exactly.

James Marshall
289 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:05:32
Ste - you're completely missing my point, which is that it has nothing to do with the players in question. You could be talking about Pele & Cruff for all it matters.

The point I'm trying to make is that Moyes doesn't start until July 1st and neither does Martinez - plus both of them are in negotiations for players at their old club.

It's as simple as that, so yeah, I am for real because it's a pretty valid point in my opinion.

It has NOTHING to do with how good or bad a player is.

Paul Andrews
290 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:05:11
James,

Have there been any reports of Martinez putting any bids in for any player?
I have seen rumours of him being interested in Kone and Alcarez but not seen any reports of a bid.

James Marshall
291 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:10:44
Nope, you're right there Paul.
Chris Morris
292 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:12:24
Sell him if he wants to leave
Fran Mitchell
293 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:13:52
Firstly: David Moyes did not bid £12million, Man Utd did, Moyes will merely tell them who he wants but the negotiation will be someone else.

Secondly: The first bid is merely to test the waters, they in no way expected it to be accepted. It is the norm.

Thirdly: David Moyes has nothing to do with Everton anymore. If Baines goes there or to Chelsea or City it makes not one iota of difference.

Kevin Tully
294 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:13:39
Big difference is Kone wants out (If you believe the quotes attributed to him) and Alcarez is out of contract isn't he?

If Baines said he wanted to go and Moyes then made a bid - completely justifiable, no problem whatsoever.

He's a twat.

Fran Mitchell
295 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:15:45
In my opinion it was to be expected. I also beleive that he will go. He's 28, has 2 years on his contract and it's a world cup year. He absolutely deserves to be playing in the Champions League and is probably craving the chance. His value is also at it's peak, so for a club like ours now is the time to sell. He may have 4-5 years left at the top, but he's at his best now.

I don't want to see him go, obviously. But If it's a choice of keeping Fellaini or Baines, i'd go with the former. He's younger,thus his value will only increase over the next 3 years, and I think there is a lot more to come. And a world class central/defensive midfielder is a must if we wish to play an attractive, attacking style.

Also, with the huge improvement in Seamus Coleman, Baines' importance (in that he was the only attacking, creative force we've had recently) will lessen, and we can afford to bring in someone new and young on the left. Pienaar is also a lesser force than previously, wit creative emphasis moving to Mirallas, our left hand side has lost much of the burden.

If we can get £20million, or even a £12-15 plus someone else (of top quality) in the mould of Welbeck (who may well want more games in a W/C year). I'd like to see a cheeky bud for Hernandez, who is criminally underused, but it's probably impossible. Also like to see Nick Powell come here.

John Daley
296 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:09:07
"It's the same situation. Marinez starts same day as Moyes.
If you can enlighten me to the differences in the situation, then please, I'm all ears."

Err...I would have thought the difference is pretty obvious. Moyes (ok, Utd at the behest of Moyes) has put a bid in for an Everton player whilst he's still 'officially' contracted as the Everton manager. Martinez has not put a bid in for any Wigan players as yet. Claiming you can't see a glaring distinction there does indeed make it seem that you are 'all ears'..,with little else inbetween. Even Inspector fucking Gadget could deduce the difference.

Al Reddish
297 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:29:56
Just listening to SSN. Norwich are lining up a bid for Fer and his agent says his future should be sorted next week with reports of a medical at Norwich 'premature'. Everton have made on enquiry for Lee Chong Yung according to another agent. Nathan Redmond's agent says we have not made any bid but he wants to join us despite Norwich and Swansea having bids accepted.

I think Bill needs to get that money out he reckons he has and Martinez needs to get his arse into Finch Farm ASAP.

Fran Mitchell
298 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:37:23
Richard Reeves 325 "When Kenright stated recently in Martinez's press conference that he had told Moyes none of the current squad are for sale with the exception of Fellaini because of the release clause, we all knew it was another lie or conveniently shortened sentence. The second part of that sentence would of continued, "but if the right price came in...... "
I don't believe"

That's the case with anything, ain't it. My car ain't for sale, nor is my TV or my kettle. If someone called me today offering to buy one of them mind, and the price was right, then i'd sell them. Doesn't mean they were previously 'for sale'. 'For Sale' means to actively look for a buyer.

Ryan Sloan
299 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:32:48
To be fair, the club have come out and said he is not for sale... maybe to drive his price up. I for one don't want him to leave but everyone has their price. Everton should set a value on him of at least £23 million – he is worth that, I think; he has 5/6 good years left in him.

We should set the figure, either to scare of Man Utd or anyone else, or to make them break the bank. We hold the advantage.

Ciarán McGlone
300 Posted 28/06/2013 at 10:14:43
Mat,

I can assure, I am not naïve in the slightest..In fact, the rather salient point of my post was that I saw through this chancer quite some time ago...

James Lauwervine
301 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:40:58
This marks a watershed moment for me. I always previously liked and respected Moyes, though he did my head in from time to time. This disrespectful and disgraceful offer, especially whilst he is still 'officially' our manager makes me think he can fuck right off. Which is handy because disliking Manc managers is something I've always enjoyed.
Chris Morris
302 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:50:12
If Leroy Fer slips through our grasp again then we need to see a psychiatrist.
Carl Sanderson
303 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:50:58
Fran 340:

Correct. I think some people are allowing their dislike of Moyes to blind them to the facts, which are as you have described.

Brian Conrad
304 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:54:25
It wants it's precious...
Callum McNab
305 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:40:08
John Gee, spot on. They're the same people who moan like hell at the end of each season, asking why we haven't won anything in years and are not watching European football.

I have said it before, I have watched my beloved Blues for 50 years and have been fortunate enough to see us pick up trophies in this country and Europe. And I can tell you it's a brilliant feeling. I am sick to death of seeing our best players being sold when we are on the verge of getting those glory days back again. Why do you think these clubs want these players? Because it's to strengthen their teams to either get success or regain success.

I know it has been for financial reasons at times but not now. There is £60 million in the kitty for every club from the new TV rights. I don't care what anybody says, Moyes has treated our great club appallingly, and what's worse, Billy Liar has let him. Tell him and anybody else to take a run and jump. We will sell who we want to sell.

Speak to Screech and Baines and ask them to give us till January if they want to go now. And if it is not going well, then we can discuss your futures then. If we keep robbing Peter to pay Paul, then expect sod all at the end of every season.

David Nicholls
306 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:40:10
Last night I was fuming but in the cold light of day I don't think any worse of Moyes for going after Baines. We can be pedantic over start dates etc but he's the Man U manager and will do all he can to Improve them which Baines undoubtably would. He better get his cheque-book though. I reckon £20m should be our asking price and if they don't meet that then they can do one.
I really hope the Lee Chung Yong rumour is true. He was one of the best young players in the Prem before his injury.
Dan Budda
307 Posted 28/06/2013 at 14:41:44
I'd be absolutely fucking gutted if he went! Anyone saying they're not that bothered are either trying to be brave or need their heads testing. He's clearly and consistently been our best player for the last 3 years.

And whilst I do accept the old 'you have to haggle' stuff people are saying, DM has undoubtedly acted like a complete twat for putting in the same bid he refused under a year ago, not forgetting Baines has had arguably his best season and just properly broke into the England team.

I just hope he feels he wants to stay at a passionate club where he is loved rather than a media circus where most fans take photos of you before learning your name. That said, I did sense he might be off at Chelsea when he threw his boots into the crowd. Great catch by the way, you big bastard! (You know who you are...)

Phil Walling
308 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:02:42
Even Man Utd can`t keep their best players for long. Didn't Ronaldo defect to Real Madrid and now we hear Rooney wants another pay-day! We may get attached to them but players are balance-sheet commodities and are there to be traded when a good opportunity arises or needs must.

Baines is a bloody good player but in two years time will have next to no value. Get used to it!

Nigel Dooley
309 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:06:27
I am a Moyes fan and always have been, but I am totally totally disgusted in Moyes. He leaves our club without compensation, he knew about the move for months, leaving us in limbo... and now he comes back for one of our players. So much for the Kenwright – Moyes friendship... worth nothing.

After 11 years at our club, he hasn't learned anything about us. For all his tactical short-comings, I always thought he knew and understood what it meant to be a Blue... but, after he dropped over half the team for the game at Anfield two seasons ago, he went down in my estimations.

And now he has the cheek to come back for Baines — it is an insult to Kenwright, EFC and, most importantly, the fans. If this bid is true, I am no longer a Moyes fan.

Ray Roche
310 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:16:46
Chris Morris @ 356

Fer was Moyes choice, if Martinez doesn't fancy him then he will end up elsewhere. If Martinez DOES want him, and we fail (again) to either find the money or cock the deal up then that will be a scandal. I am of the opinion that we don't have any money and Chancer Bill is hoping something, a player sale or the TV money, will enable us to do a deal. Even a player out of contact will want a sizeable signing on fee. As a club, we will go nowhere fast with Kenwright and his chancers in charge.

Chris Morris
311 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:26:45
If Baines goes it won't signal the end of Everton. It will however, signal the end of a fantastic partnership between a top player and club (fans included) that loved him.

But we'll move on. Edmonton Oilers were fine after Wayne Gretzky left!!!!

James Marshall
312 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:35:56
Most of your responses seem to end with some form of mild abuse, aimed at my intelligence purely because we have a difference of opinion.

Charming as ever on here. There's really no need for it.

Drew Shortis
313 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:34:59
One for the conspiricy theorists here. What if Moyes and Kenwright had an agreement that Man Utd put in a bid for Baines that Kenwright could then turn down, giving him a boost amongst the fans, thus softening the blow when Fellaini goes? Complete speculations on my part and possibly far fetched, but it might explain why the initial offer was so low. Surely Moyes would have known that Kenwright wouldn't be willing to let our best player go for peanuts!

Back in the real world. It will take either a massive bid we can't ignore (Lescott money) or for Baines to decide he wants to go before this happens. Baines has been making positive noises about Martinez and there is a new contract in the pipeline, so I'm cautiously optimistic about holding on to him!

Al Reddish
314 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:43:37
Drew, that theory might hold up if Man Utd had bid £20m for Baines, making Billy look the hero.
Dan Brierley
315 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:39:01
James 373, you have to understand that ToffeeWeb is literally the only thing some people have in their sheltered lives. It thrills them to actually be able to be abusive, albeit from the safety of being behind a keyboard hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away. Rise above it, and take the moral high ground on the basis that you don't have to resort to playground tactics to reinforce your point of view. Ask yourself, are you really insulted because someone was abusive to you on the internet? It should only be painful, if they are actually justified in what they say. I personally find it hillarious the childish abuse that sometimes occurs on here. But if it does bother you, ToffeeWeb might not possibly be your thing....
Al Reddish
316 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:57:42
Everton chairman Bill Kenwright said: "Leighton is under contract and I've told David not to come back for him, although there is nothing to stop him. He knows we want him to stay."

The phrase 'nothing to stop him' sounds like Bill is once again pimping out our best players. I suppose he has to find a way to provide the funds he promised to Martinez. Latest rumours are United to come back with a £15m offer with £5m add-ons taking it to £20m. How do people feel about that?

James Marshall
317 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:59:39
Dan - I can cope, I'm a big boy and I've been around Internet forums long enough to know how people operate. I was just trying (in vain) to get a simple point across without people getting oddly personal about it.

I think they call it 'trolling' these days, whereas in my day we just called it baiting.

Dan Budda
318 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:03:23
According to our insightful, 'on-the-button' official website Baines is off to Glastonbury...

I didn't even know they had a team.

Harold Matthews
319 Posted 28/06/2013 at 15:14:44
Yeah. Chung Yong Lee is a damn good player. Cost Bolton nearly £3mill.

Not sure about young Redmond but I like his strong desire to join us. Still learning, still growing and one for the future.

Leroy Fer and/or Vadis would be preferable but the main cash must go on a striker. Don't know much about this Bony guy but he certainly knows where the net is. Even Kone is far better than Jelly and Vic and knows the Martinez system.

We also need someone to challenge Howard

Personally, I'm looking forward to Oviedo getting a proper chance. He is a very intelligent player and a beautiful crosser of the ball. Martinez is sure to like him. Moyes favoured youngsters built like Rooney, Rodwell, Anichebe and Barkley. The smaller lads didn't get a look in.

Paul Andrews
320 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:24:53
Baines will go if Man Utd want him to go, it's as simple as that.

As for all the name calling between Evertonians with difference of opinion... shithouse... no balls... idiot etc etc — that won't change the fact that we are a feeder club, and will remain that whilst we have The Fool as our Chairman.

James Marshall
321 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:35:12
Agree with that. We're not top tier and haven't been for 20 years.

If Baines leaves, so what? Nobody lasts forever and we're better off taking some cash and moving on before he's too old to sell. That will be the boards stance as well.

Next.

Peter Warren
322 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:35:34
Why they didnt get Baines signed up as soon as season finished is crazy. Sounds to me the Board want him to go why announce in public we're going to offer him a new contract - seems to me PR exercise so when they sell him they say we really wanted him to stay blah blah blah
John Daley
323 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:42:08
James #373,

Was that aimed at me? Now don't take it as a dig, but you forget to add who you were actually addressing.

If you are going to play the self-righteous indignation card then you have to expect someone to bite.

Your opening post on this thread spoke of 'ludicrous', 'knee jerk reactions'. You then paint all those who've lambasted Moyes with the 'bitterness' brush.

Not content with that you then come out with the blatant untruth: "Other people are already laying into Baines, saying we should 'give him a hard time' when he comes to Goodison (if we sell him), but why? Do you hate every player we've ever sold? ".

Where does anybody make such a statement? Who has demanded that a shitstorm should descend on Baines if he dares depart? Nowhere and nobody that I can see. In fact, nearly everyone has said they would not blame Baines one iota if he left.

So, it could be that you simply made it up, or it could be that you have read the following comment and totally misunderstood it ...

"This just is wrong and it shows no respect. He derserves loads of shit when he comes back for the way he has acted since hes left."
.....

You don't need detective skills on par with that dishevelled little dosser Columbo to fathom out who he's actually talking about there. I'll give you a clue.....it's not Baines. Want me to narrow it down some more? When he's at work he has the initials DM emblazoned above his tit.

(Dan Brierley: "Is it Danger Mouse?").

Sorry if you feel slighted James. It's not intended as a personal attack but you can't simply lambast everyone and then piously portray yourself as some sort of victim.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
324 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:34:04
James (#245 ff), I do think you were a little off the mark to draw the parallel between Moyes and Martinez in this nonsense and claim "double standards".

Sufficient differences have been cited (Bid vs No bid; Kone wants to move, Baines wants to stay; relegated club versus direct PL competitor; compensation paid to Wigan for RM; Baines our star Player of the Season; Moyes's agreement not to come after him... [Okay, I know the last one is a joke... but that is what was reported some weeks back!]) to make the two situations far from comparable. Have a little grace and don't wave this ultra-boring "trolling" flag, please.

And John is right: nobody on this thread has used the phrase 'give him a hard time' (YOUR quotes!). Don't make shit up. That's one thing that really gets my goat!

Brian Harrison
325 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:46:05
As I said in an earlier post, Leighton will decide if he stays or goes. The worry is, over the past years, we have produced players that other clubs want and that has allowed us to survive financially. Should Baines go (and maybe Fellaini) then I cant think of too many other players in our squad that other teams would pay big money for.

Wimbledon were successful for many years doing this till they ran out of players that other clubs wanted and dropped like a stone. Let's hope we are not at the start of another Wimbledon!

James Marshall
326 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:45:54
John - I have no idea who you are, nor have I commented directly at any one of your posts. My apologies if that's the way it came across. I was addressing the few people that had made direct pops at me, and I don't remember your name being one of them.

As for the comment about people laying into Baines if/when he comes back to Goodison - I assure you I didn't make anything up, it's on this thread somewhere...

I was and am fully aware of who is talking about who on here - my judgement might appear to be a little off to you, and some others, but my reading skills are absolutely fine thanks!

I haven't lambasted everyone, but there are a majority on this thread that don't seem to understand the point I was trying to make about Moyes & Martinez not actually being contracted to their respective new clubs yet. All I got in response was the (now sadly standard) mild abuse I mentioned earlier.

I also didn't think anyone was bitter at Moyes - they're seemingly bitter about the fact he/Utd are interested in Baines. That's not bitterness about him, or him leaving, but regarding his interest in an Everton player.

Like I said before, Utd coming in for Baines is a no brainer.

Carl Sanderson
327 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:43:58
Peter 396:

"Sounds to me the Board want him to go why announce in public we're going to offer him a new contract - seems to me PR exercise so when they sell him they say we really wanted him to stay blah blah blah"

Just so; they've done it before and they'll do it again. If there is interest from another club in one of your players then you offer him improved terms; you don't just say you're going to do so.

There is simply no chance that Kenwright will pay Baines what he is worth. If Baines is still an Everton player on 1st September then I will do the Dance of the Sugar-Plum Fairy down Goodison Road at the first home game next season.

James Stewart
328 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:03:45
@401

Stinks of the usual PR shite to me too. How Fellaini is paid more than Baines who is twice as consistent I'll never know. I hope Baines wants to stay but who knows if that even will count for anything.

BK and Moyes will still be as thick as thieves so I wouldn't put anything past either of them. I hope Moyes gets the reception he deserves when he returns to Goodison. That guy only looks out for himself and all this mask of dignity doesn't wash with me. I hope we do Man Utd as much as I hope we do the RS.

Paul Andrews
329 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:11:42
"One of the all time great managers. "
Kenwright describing Moyes earlier in the week.
Can any of Moyes fans on here justify,or at least explain,that comment?
Paul Andrews
330 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:11:42
"One of the all time great managers. "
Kenwright describing Moyes earlier in the week.
Can any of Moyes fans on here justify,or at least explain,that comment?
Paul Andrews
331 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:15:29
I couldn't believe my eyes the first time.:-)
Dan Brierley
332 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:52:49
John Daley 397, of course its not Danger Mouse stupid. It's obviously Derek Mountfield.

AND WE LOVE OUR DEGSY MOUNT.......

Sam Hoare
333 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:16:00
Man U wanted Baines long before Moyes went there or was even linked with them so why is all the blame for this going on him?! Some angry people desperate for a conduit.

Fact is that Man U need a good left back and Baines is one of the best around. Chances are they would have bid for them whoever was boss so all this Moyes is stabbing us in the back stuff is nonsense. This is standard football. As for Moyes has inside information and knows that we have no money...so does the whole world!

All that matter is how much Man U are prepared to pay, whether the lad wants to leave and at what price it makes sense for us. I would suggest that anything over £18m is decent business for a player nearing his 30s. I wish we were a club that had funds and could buy without having to sell first but sadly we are not.

Eric Myles
334 Posted 28/06/2013 at 16:14:14
Derk #218 "We don't have to be a selling club if we keep characters such as Bainsy around"

Unfortunately we DO have to be a selling club when we keep characters such as Kenwright around.

Stuart #220, I don't think our chairman is as circumspect as that, he's probably just leaked it to the press without even an offer from United.


Darren #264 :but I think we just state we won't entertain any bid under £30M" You mean sust like we did with Rooney? Remember how that worked out?

Russ #293, should be a done deal then, Moyes just has to sign the player reiftration over to United.

Paul #299, no, it just means you were trying it on at the original price and would be happy with the reduced price.

Tony J # 307 "If the offer was genuine, EFC have done the correct thing and told Moyes where to go." If the offer was genuine we'd be seeing LB on the back pages of the Manchester Evening News holding a United shirt by now.

John #315, I sincerely believe that we will be under no pressure from the banks to sell players this transfer window due to the extra £20mill we'll recieve from telly money which will cover the annual loss. But we do need to sell players to provide transfer funds for new players

Fran #340, stop with the common sense, haven't we had enough of it ignored already?

Drew #375 "or for Baines to decide he wants to go before this happens" All the players the Club have needed to sell have conveniently decided they wanted to go, some have even been so desperate to go they waited until deadline day to put in their transfer requests.

Dan #374 "It thrills them to actually be able to be abusive, albeit from the safety of being behind a keyboard hundreds, sometimes thousands of miles away" Google "pot kettle black" and "irony"

Myself, I'm just wondering if we paid Wigan what their fans thought Baines was worth??

Paul Andrews
335 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:33:44
Eric,

Some really valid points there.Good post.

Mat Fearon
336 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:36:53
Ciran, is that the "chancer" that has landed one of the biggest jobs in world football. Did you spot that as well?

Micheal, James is spot on. There are very strong parallels between the two scenarios. And how do you know Baines is not actually keen on a move to Man U? He is hardly likely to come out publically and say it is he? The key point is that man united and Moyes are doing nothing different to what any other club would do, and we would happily take some of Wigan's best players.

And good point from Eric.... did we underpay for Baines in the first place?

Dan Brierley
337 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:36:44
Sam 409, its exactly what I thought. Baines has been on United's radar for years as Evra's replacement. I doubt it's even Moyes behind the bid, Fergie has not gone breeding pigeons yet, Moyes certainly won't get his hands on the reigns immediately.

But anyway, logic and reasoning is pretty pointless on this thread. One day they might get over the embarrassment of the 'Moyes will never win anything, and will never get offered a top job' statements.

Ste Traverse
338 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:37:06
James #373.

Your now whinging just because your 'points' were taken to bits earlier in this thread and now you've run out of things to say.

Paul Melarange
339 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:53:30
Think United are having a laugh here, £12 million for one of the best defenders in the world over the last few seasons! None of us want to see him go but if he decides he wants to hand a transfer request in then no less than £25 million, not like we are dealing with a small club with limited funds here! I really hope Baines stays for another couple of seasons as it would be a big blow to lose his attacking and creativity not to mention the goals he scores, would rather see felli go as he is not as consistent week in week out as baines if we are to lose one of our big assets!
Paul Andrews
340 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:59:10
Dan,

Naive of you to think Moyes has nothing to do with the Baines bid.
Are you suggesting he has no say on incoming transfers?

Michael Kenrick
341 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:00:53
Matt (#419), of course there are parallels, that's obvious to everybody. But to claim "Double Standards" as James has is anything but "spot on" — it is way off the mark.

Then to dismiss the posts that point to the very significant differences, and start blabbing about "trolling", is disingenuous, to say the least.

Dan Brierley
342 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:06:48
Paul, I am suggesting that Baines has been on United's radar a lot longer than 2 months. If you want to believe it is all down to Moyes, then so be it. But I am saying that Fergie had identified Baines as Evra's replacement a while ago, and Baines is still the best LB around. Who else would United go for if not Baines?

Think about the timeline. Martinez has said publicly that he wants Baines to sign a new contract, which if he did manage to sign, would inflate his price dramatically. United simply could not wait for Moyes to be in place, they need to put a bid in before Baines signs that contract to signal their interest, and place the seed into Baines mind.

If it was true, what is Moyes going to do? Say 'ah, fuck this, they made a decision before I arrived, I am not going there anymore!!'? He can't say anything about how the club should be run until his contract starts.

Chris Morris
343 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:13:52
I heard before the start of last season that Baines had met with United club officials and Fergie but was put off by them saying they wanted him to be Evra's replacement in 2 years.

Apparently Fergie wanted Baines to wait his time as a sub and get used to the United way.

I'm not saying it's true; merely a rumour at best. The point is that unless something serious happens then it's all speculation. United testing the water with a nominal bid isn't going to make me lose sleep.................. Tonight!!

Carl Sanderson
344 Posted 28/06/2013 at 17:24:29
James 403:

The fault is entirely Kenwright's. We are in our present parlous state because of his egoism, incompetence, complacency, arrogance and stupidity.

However much I try I cannot blame Moyes. He now works for Manchester United and will put their interests first. A couple of weeks here or there is irrelevant as far as I am concerned. Ok, maybe Moyes could have gone on gardening leave; but our problems go far too deep for that to matter much.

Unless and until Kenwright sells up and pisses off we're going to go on as we are: a fucking shambles off the pitch.

Paul Andrews
345 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:29:07
Dan,

"He can't say anything about how the club should be run until his contract starts"

No offence intended but that point exacerbates your naivety.

Chris Morris
346 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:37:53
Carl

It's Kenwright's fault for United wanting the best LB in the league?

James McCall
347 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:32:08
John Gee was right — even if we got top money for both Baines and Fellaini, we couldn't replace them with the same level of quality. Any player as good would demand higher wages and Champions League football. Between Bill and the Bank, Martinez would be left with less than half and we would get average players in return.

Moyes is a twat; I knew he would screw us over. I didn't believe all that crap about Kenwright saying not to come back for our players. Actually, I wouldn't be surprised if he told him he could come back for players — it hasn't stopped people saying Martinez is going to do it.

Billy Fisher
348 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:05:04
Fuck off, Moyes!! If he's "the second best left back in the country" — go and buy Ashley Cole!!
Mike Walker
349 Posted 28/06/2013 at 18:59:24
I see on SKY tonight that Everton are asking £18M now for Leighton Baines...

It is so bad if we are going to let LB go or if he wants to go ...

When are we going to stand up and be counted???

BK — get out now!
Colin Glassar
350 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:28:01
I second that, Billy Fisher. The ginger traitor should do one. I can't wait for his first game at Goodison if he persists with this transfer.
Carl Sanderson
351 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:26:21
Chris 450:

No.

But it is Kenwright's fault that we are in such a weak financial position that United feel able to offer absurdly low prices for our best players; it's his fault that we have been overtaken by clubs who couldn't hold a candle to us 10-15 years ago; it's his fault that the club has adopted a divide-and-rule attitude toward its own fans.

He has been an unalloyed disaster for Everton.

Harold Matthews
352 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:00:35
Fellaini's £75k a week contract renewal has murdered our club and Mirallas and a few others will soon want to follow him.

Some players deserve big wages and if they can do better elsewhere good luck to them. We are no longer wealthy and need to set pay limits. If we don't we've had it.

The brilliant Lewandowski has been on £30k a week for the last three years. If Dortmund can do it so can we

Contract renewals have got out of hand. They need to be sorted. ...Now.

Remember the January window. We couldn't even afford a loan player..

Chris Morris
353 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:37:20
Carl 465

It was a lot longer than 10-15 years ago mate. We were fighting relegation then and years before. Probably need to go back a lot longer than that before we can say other teams couldn't hold a candle to us.

Andy Crooks
354 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:06:27
James #281, I've just put myself in Moyes's shoes for a minute. Here's how it feels. I've got the job I've craved and have fooled many Evertonians into actually defending the utterly disgusting way I treated the club in my dealings with Man Utd. Even now, when I apparently sanction an insulting bid for their best player, the same loyal crew still defend me. Fuck me, they still believe I have integrity.

Tony J # 307, it's not bollocks about integrity. Integrity is the big thing with his admirers and, in my view, he has demonstrated that he has none. I never rated him highly as a coach but really thought he was a rare man of honour and standing.

Danny James
355 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:32:40
This is hilarious. Moyes has left the club and there is still the time honoured debate between IMWT and the MOB going on. Instead of revolving around styleof play and how good a manager he is, it's whether HE is responsible for the derisory £12M bid or whether its the Man Utd board.

We need to let go.

Iain Johnston
356 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:40:07
Sorry James, don't I feel like a nob'ead!
Andy Crooks
357 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:43:21
Dan, you really should re-read your post #377. Not your best.
Richard Dodd
358 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:18:57
Paul Andrews @405. OK, as an unashamed Moyes supporter (whilst he was our manager) and one who has read widely of our history, I believe Everton has had only three great managers — Catterick, Kendall Mk 1 and Moyes.

Catterick was blessed with Moores as a benefactor; Kendall won and won with limited resources but in an era when it was a much more level playing field; and Moyes consistently made silk purses out of sows' ears. And kept us at the north end of the Prem.

I guess that Johnny Carey would also have his admirers as would Joe Royle and even the sometimes derided Gordon Lee gets well spoken of in some quarters. But I truly believe Moyes was great in the context of the circumstances in which he worked.

Tin hat at the ready!

Geoff Freeman
359 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:28:49
Carl (401) Look forward to seeing you in your tu tu at the first home game
Paul Andrews
360 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:01:13
Richard,

Mr Chairman stated "one of the all time great managers"
NOT "one of the all time great Everton managers"
Bit of a difference there.
And most definitely a false statement.

Richard Dodd
361 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:09:02
OK, Paul, I wouldn`t go that far, by any means! But I guess he has time on his side – and all that money.
Paul Andrews
362 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:13:09
Yeah,

I can see him talked about,in years to come, in the same breath as Ferguson, Clough, etc

Peter Jamieson
363 Posted 28/06/2013 at 19:47:15
If Baines isn't a Man Utd player by the end of the transfer window you can paint me pink, cover me in syrup, and dip me in rice crispier.

Baines will have been tapped up by Moyes and cuddly Ken will have already agreed.

This £12 million starter bid, will probably increase to around £18- 20 million by which time Kenwright will claim victory for holding out for a decent price.

Carl Sanderson
364 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:28:38
Chris 468:

Yes, that's true, we have under-performed basically since the late eighties. But even ten years ago the likes of Spurs and Man City would not have been regarded as being bigger than Everton; they are now.

Geoff Freeman
365 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:27:13
Please God keep Baines at Everton I can't wait to see Carl (401) in a tu tu and Peter (486) as a rice crispie.
Carl Sanderson
366 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:45:52
Geoff 491:

It would be a terrible sight, but it would be a price worth paying.

Toby Smith
367 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:39:06
Oh my! Davey's not the hero he was greeted as at our last home game of the season? Not sure how a man who is still being paid by our club can bid £10m for the best left back in the Prem! He's now a self serving Manc.

Wake up and smell the coffee, he shit on us and will try to get our best players for less than fuck all. I wonder how he'll be greeted at Goodison when he's an away manager? Shame that fixture is so far away, but hey, he didn't know till he was invited to Sir Alec's house.

Ladies and Gentleman, Mr David Moyes.... still makes me fell ill... small club mentality!

Glad he's gone, I hope they win nowt!

Callum McNab
368 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:05:18
Dan, so what do we do then? Sell Fellaini, Mirallas, or anyone else who other clubs want, just because we are in the shit? You wonder why we have won fuck all in nearly 20 years...

People who are saying that Baines is nearly 30. I may be wrong (and I apologise if I am) but I thought he was 28 and 29 near the end of the year. He has a least another 5 years at the top, that's why Man Utd want him.

And regarding us being skint, I would say we are in the same amount of debt as 80% of the Premier League clubs, and some in more. The Red Shite are in more debt than us. Does it stop them trying to get success? How many players have they signed? I would suggest that they are spending the money that every other Premier League club have got this year.

I can only blame this board, and how they have got a lot of our fans to accept no success and anything from mid table to 5th as a great season.

Mike Hughes
369 Posted 28/06/2013 at 20:46:13
Michael Brien #209
Very well put.
The "treat others as you would like to be treated" argument hits the nail on the head. I guess that was the root of my anger (and subsequent midnight post) when I saw the Man U - Baines link.

I'm not sure I believe in karma (until recently I thought it was a type of curry) but "what comes around, goes around" springs to mind in some similar disrespectful incidents.
1. Mark Hughes' handling of the Lescott deal - virtually sneering at our relative poverty.
2. Gerard Houllier sneering alongside the newly signed Barmby.
3. Honest Harry's £125k offer (or was it quid?) for Phil Neville.
Some might argue that Harry was actually flashing the cash on that one but all three got their comeuppance (well in a football millionaire sort of way).

I seriously believe that DM will not be a success at MUFC.
I hope that's partly because Baines wants to stay here.

Ray Roche
370 Posted 28/06/2013 at 21:07:21
Callum I don't think it's the amount of debt you're in, it's your ability to manage the debt. We are a commercial joke, run by a joker. We have sod all left to sell or re-mortgage. Apart from the players.
Callum McNab
371 Posted 28/06/2013 at 21:24:37
Ray, I totally agree. That as been the case in years gone buy regarding money.

But as everyone knows this year every club has got 60 million from the new tv rights. Whoever finishes bottom gets 57 million for gods sake. Hope billy liar doesn't know that or we will be in the shit.

We have to keep this team together for at least one more season at least. We all enjoyed how we played at the beginning of the season , before that Ginger twat bottled it as usual . If we could add a decent finisher and a creative midfielder like Razinsky ( sorry crap at spelling) I think his name is at Arsenal. And a keeper to put Howard under pressure. Then I think we will get that success we as supporters deserve.

Gary Carter
373 Posted 28/06/2013 at 21:39:08
What makes me laugh is how this reminds me of something I said a while back and got loads of abuse for. I don't want a nice guy in charge like people say Martinez is, I want a horrible ruthless WINNER. If RM wants a Wigan player then fuck Wigan, go and bid for him, your an Everton manager now so forget about being an ex Wigan manager.

I take my hat off to Moyes for being ruthless enough to try and improve the team he now manages by trying to sign one of the best players in Europe, I mean what would you expect him to fucking do ?!?!? If we had the money and clout of United and appointed a decent manager from a decent team would we object to him going back to his ex club for one of their best players ? NO we would not, its what we would WANT him to do !!!

Why don't people start getting in the real world of football on this site instead of the over romantic living in the past world a lot seem to live in !!

PS Moyes IS a c**t for bidding for him, especially only 12 million, but hey, that's football for you :-)

Patrick Murphy
374 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:00:43
"I don't know what you mean by 'glory,' " Alice said.
Numpty smiled contemptuously. "Of course you don't—till I tell you. I meant 'there's a nice knock-down argument for you!' "
"But 'glory' doesn't mean 'a nice knock-down argument'," Alice objected.
"When I use a word," Numpyy said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Numpty, "which is to be master—that's all."
Alice was too much puzzled to say anything, so after a minute Numpty began again. "They've a temper, some of them—particularly verbs, they're the proudest—adjectives you can do anything with, but not verbs—however, I can manage the whole lot! Impenetrability! That's what I say!"

Paul Ferry
375 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:16:23
Patrick (507): lovely nugget of information.

Thanks. Nice quote.

Go back to your books sir.

Wonder if that is what Ged had in mind?


Andy Crooks
376 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:32:35
Gary, nice guy or not Martinez is a proven winner.Ruthless or not Moyes has won fuck all. Moyes's contract with Everton was until 1st July.That matters.
Patrick Murphy
377 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:41:12
Paul I think this is what Ged had in mind.

Scottish usage:
a) Someone who (sometimes unwittingly) by speech or action demonstrates a lack of knowledge or misconception of a particular subject or situation to the amusement of others.
b) A good humoured admonition, a term of endearment
c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person
a) "No. That wisnae wit she meant, ya big numpty!"
b) i.e. "Silly billy", "You big dafty"
c) "That numpty's driving with no lights on!"

Brendan McLaughlin
378 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:55:04
Sniffle, sniffle...it's not that he BID for him...sniffle,sniffle...it's the WAY he bid for him...
Jay Harris
380 Posted 28/06/2013 at 23:18:22
I think Bainesy is the level headed type that will not be deluded by his agent who will see a big fee opportunity and unless he gets unsettled by all the media hype about needing CL to cement his England place will stay if the contract is right.

I have also heard Fellaini wants to stay another year to allow his contract to run down thereby increasing his opportunity for a bigger contract.

A lot depends on BS Billy and his cronies to show their ambition or lack of it.

Harold Matthews
381 Posted 29/06/2013 at 00:11:22
Jay. I rate Fellaini but if he wants a new contract I would make him take a pay-cut

In fact,if anyone demanded more than £50/60K a week I would suggest that they try to get it elsewhere. The world is packed with decent players who are not even earning half of that.

Dortmund don't pay these daft wages ,Why should we.

The real culprit now sits in Manchester. His insistence on keeping certain players forced the club into acceding to their outrageous demands.

Well.....No more. Enough is enough. They can all be replaced. ALL of them. Messi and Ronaldo they are not.

Martinez is probably the right guy at the right time. He has business qualifications and knows where to put the decimal point.

This great club is more important to me than any player and it's about time someone put their foot down. That someone may be Roberto Martinez.

Lloyd Brodrick
382 Posted 29/06/2013 at 01:06:35
I think our board realise that the only way to improve 'their options' is CL football. Letting Baines go would not improve this prospect. To me we had a chance last season and as much of a chance this coming season if we can build on this squad and let them express themselves.

Would Baines want to leave for medals? No guarantees that MU would win any in deed it's likely that if we do improve and step up we would be one of their main challengers.

A 4th place MU is a real possibility this time round. This is why if we did sell Baines he would be worth much more than £15 or 20 mil to MU. 38 games a season, significant creator who will contribute 15 to 20 points, that's what they are buying whilst weakening an emerging rival to boot.

Paul Kelly
383 Posted 29/06/2013 at 01:17:59
Let me get this right,

our manager, has put in a bid for one of our own players, (correct, yes/no, Moyes is still on the payroll, RM isn't,), because our inept board didn't tell Moyes to fuck off when it they should and now we have this sort of shit to deal with.

think i've got it and it's a fucking shambles, ( anyone who says Moyes ain't officially started at Utd- wake up and and smell the bull shit), couldn't see this happening anywhere else but Club Goodison, absolute disgrace.

We're a fucking laughing stock in my eyes.

Ps sorry for the language, but I'm wound up.

Mark Frere
384 Posted 29/06/2013 at 01:17:16
Harold Matthews
For once in your life can you stop going on about our fucking wage bill! We are hardly one of the biggest spenders in the PL on wages.

Why don't you turn your attentions to our shambles of a board, and ask the question of them: why can't we compete with teams like Spurs in terms of wage bill? The reason why is Spurs have competent people running their club, and we have a bunch of self-serving morons running ours

Paul Kelly
385 Posted 29/06/2013 at 01:33:31
Mark,

" we have a bunch of self-serving morons running ours (club)",

That's the best compliment the board have had this year.

Harold Matthews
386 Posted 29/06/2013 at 03:10:40

Mark. Delighted you've noticed I forever hark on about the wage bill .I am a complete novice on financial matters and do my best to understand the business wizards of Toffee Web.

Yes, they keep howling about the board being a bunch of incompetent morons and rI'm prepared to believe it. I also believe Moyes is not entirely innocent.

I cannot draw comparisons between Everton and Spurs because I don't know the financial situation at White Hart Lane. Their geographical advantage is enormous and was probably the main reason Lewis Holtby chose to join them.

What I do know is that we couldn't even bring in one single loan player in the January window because our wage bill was over the limit. Never mind the situation at other clubs. Unlike you I am not interested in other clubs.

According to the money wizards of these threads, the wage bill must be reduced. Blast the board to kingdom come. I couldn't care less. It won't save one single penny. These guys live in a different universe where you and I don't exist.
Yes, they will listen to the badge complaints because it costs them nothing but if you are waiting for them to put time and money into running the club sensibly then I can only assume that you believe in miracles.

It's a free world. If you can rant about the board, I can rant about the wage bill.
If you don't like it, lump it.

John Gee
387 Posted 29/06/2013 at 06:21:20
Everton not qualifying for the CL under Moyes last season has worked out quite well for Moyes this season. It gives him a bit of extra leverage when trying to tempt our best player away.

If you want to know who is responsible, first you should look at who benefits.

Tony Marsh
388 Posted 29/06/2013 at 07:59:41
David Moyes the man so many of you adored, the man who so many called a man of honour and integrity, is now proving to be the shitbag I always knew he was.

Not only does Moyes slip out the back door on the sly, leaving us with no compensation, he is now trying to use his knowledge of our financial position to get our best players on the cheap for his new mega-rich club while still officially being paid by our club... WHAT A JOKE!!!

I hope you lot who defended Moyes through the terrible dross-laden years are now ashamed of yourselves. Those of us who pointed out his failings and who never trusted him were often shot down as negative and anti-Everton. Well, now the Rat has been rumbled for what he really is, what do you say now? Is it still a case of IMWT, lads — or have you opened your eyes yet?

Colin Glassar
389 Posted 29/06/2013 at 08:36:47
Ginger was a Manc 5th columnist put there by SAF. Remember fergie didn't want him as his assistant at OT as he knew Ginger would serve his master better turning us into the Mancs' feeder club.
Paul Andrews
390 Posted 29/06/2013 at 08:53:09
Reports this morning that Arsenal will not pay the wage demand and transfer fee for Fellaini. That does not surprise me to be honest I don't think any club will pay the reported £23-24 million figure in the clause.

That leaves us in the usual position that we have to sell if we want a half-decent transfer budget for Martinez. In my opinion, if Man Utd offer £15 million for Baines, he is gone.

Ged Simpson
391 Posted 29/06/2013 at 08:45:55
Patrick - 507 & 515

Ta for the info on numpty - you prove again you can learn on TW. I think I meant c) A reckless, absent minded or unwise person and was making the point Baines isn't a numpty.

But I may well be one too. Time will tell.

Gavin Ramejkis
392 Posted 28/06/2013 at 22:51:00
I find the clamour of the Moyesophiles giving Gollum excuses for his actions as sickening as those clowns who clap Kenshite on the Jumbotron. The arguments about "isn't it just like going for Wigan players" also blown out of the water as Whelan most definitely says any and all are for sale.

Gollum treated the club and fans with disdain with his "will he, wont he?" lies — knowing full bleeding well where he was off to... even starting his role whilst still on a wage at this club, which only goes to reinforce Gollum is interested in Gollum and nothing more... Integrity and man of honour, my arse – a 24-carat £65k-a-week lackie.

If he or any other manager comes in for a current Everton player who hasn't put in a transfer request, I expect them to get told No with at least four f's involved. I also sincerely hope he wins fuck all at the Theatre of Wet Dreams and the Crimson Haemorrhoids are treated to his bottling it in games against the likes of Chavski and the RS... I'm still looking for odds for them to win fuck all this coming season.

Steven Telford
393 Posted 29/06/2013 at 08:39:47
Quite simple, we should have long been doing what Spanish and Portuguese clubs typically do to counter "Bosman bullshit", which is, load up the ""release clauses" to an absurdly high level. £50M, £60M, £70M..... sometimes up to £100M – there seems to be players over there who have 3-4 times valuation release clauses. I know it may be easier said than done, but they manage it over there, so we should here.

The Bosman rule is the bain of mobility in football. And if it was not for that rule, we would all be fretting a lot less about losing the best left back in the world.

Gary Carter
394 Posted 29/06/2013 at 09:12:00
Andy Crooks, Mattinez a proven winner!!! Are you for real, check out his Premier League record, my friend, and explain to me how that equates as being a winner?!?!? Also, check out his cup record prior to last season, even more laughable than his league record!

Proven winner!! Good God, I've heard it all now!!!

Ray Roche
395 Posted 29/06/2013 at 09:45:49
What if Baines doesn't really like Moyes, and wants to stay? What if Baines was sick of the football we have played for 9 of the last 11 years and thinks, "Things are going to change, I might well enjoy this new era"?

We're all assuming Baines will go, he might, but I would imagine it would be for the chance to win medals, not because of a few extra grand a week or because he's in love with Moyes and his brand of football. He might go IN SPITE of Moyes, not because of him.

Phil Sammon
396 Posted 29/06/2013 at 09:57:50
Ray

I've toyed with that rationale myself. Whilst Moyes's general attitude was negative, you have to admit he gave Baines a licence to raid forward at every opportunity. What more could an attacking full back want?

There's the other side of it of course. From a team perspective, you can't be happy winning games 2-1 and desperately hanging onto the 3 points rather than cementing a victory in style.

It's a toughy. Like you said, if he goes, he goes for CL football and trophies. I wouldn't begrudge him that. I think there are very good arguments for him to stay and sign a new deal with us too. Fingers crossed.

James Martin
397 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:01:29
Ray, Baines was probably the most overindulged left-back in the league under Moyes. He had Distin and Pienaar to cover his runs and he basically did whatever he wanted. He had what was regarded as the best left-flank partnership in the league and took all the set pieces.

He also stayed for 6 years; he obviously didn't hate Moyes. I know everyone is desperate to make out that Moyes was useless in all respects but there's a reason he's at Man Utd and it's not, funnily enough, because he plays terrible football and all his players hate him.

Gary Carter
398 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:07:44
Ray, that is utter horeshit. I'm afraid. To say he will go in spite of Moyes is the sort of thing that gets us labelled "bitter"!!

Moyes developed Baines into one of the best left backs in the world and gave him a free licence to get forward, I'm sure that, even if he doesn't like him on a personal level, on a professional level he has huge respect for him.

And if you ask most people outside of the band that didn't like David Moyes, you will find we don't actually have a reputation for the dour football some on here would have us believe we played. Not every game is going to be a joy to watch because that's not the way the Premier League is and even less likely with our small squad.

Scott Robinson
399 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:14:56
My respect for Moyes now has diminished. You think he would leave the club with dignity after the send off he received and not try and poach our best players. I thought that was the understanding at least. Not so any more.
Paul Andrews
400 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:20:56
Gary Carter,

You are right there when you say we don't have a reputation for dour football. It surprises me how many fans of other clubs have a different image of Moyes's style of football.

To be fair to him, he played some decent stuff last season, when he seemed to go against his previous style of football, the football he had played in his previous seasons.

Last season apart, can you name me any games over the last, say, 4 seasons when you have come out of the game and thought "we played some great football there, we played them off the park"?

Carl Sanderson
401 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:39:56
Scott :

"You think he would leave the club with dignity after the send off he received and not try and poach our best players."

Leaving aside the red herring of when Moyes's new appointment commences, the fact is that he now works for Man Utd. He will rightly place their interests before any residual affection he may harbour for Everton. (Given that Man Utd are listed on the Stock Exchange he will be under a legal duty to do so.)

If I was a United fan, I would expect Moyes to go for the best left-back around and I would be annoyed if he did not.

He is a part of our past and we are a part of his. It is now the Board's responsibility to get the best possible price for Baines. After all, they are our future.... God help us.

Ryan Sloan
402 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:49:59
After thinking about this, it has Kenwright written all over this one...

"Right, Davey, come in with a low bid, and then I get the price up a bit, and it makes are fans think I haggled a good deal..." You get the drift... wouldn't surprise me.

James Martin
403 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:42:14
Paul

2011-12 Sunderland (H) Fulham (H) Newcastle (H) Chelsea (H) Swansea (A)

2010-11 Birmingham (A) Blackpool (H) Wolves (A)

2009 -10 Sigma Olomouc (h) Aek Athens (H) Hull (A) Man City (H) Man U (H) Hull (H) Man City (A)

Can't remember much further back than that but it's all down to opinion, isn't it. The Premier League table says we've done alright over the last 4 years. Everyone else in football says we've been playing well the last 4 years (sometimes better than others like every other team). We have some of the best players we've had at Everton in the Premier League, like Baines, Pienaar, Arteta and Mirallas, one of which created more chances than any other in his position in Europe.

Our manager has just been poached by Man Utd. Yet there's a group of people who just like to blindly state that all of the football for all of the past 11 years has been so dour and tactically devoid that all the players must hate it. Seems strange then that most of them stay at Everton, talk positively about Moyes and, more often than not, the football got results.

That sort of talk is just as ridiculous as if someone came out and said all the football Everton has played for all 11 years has been fantastic. It's as equally untrue as those opinions that it's all been dour.

People can repeat it as much as they want in this attempt of memoriae damnatio but you will not succeed in getting the last 11 years consigned to some sort of dark period for Everton under a hated manager. Those who supported what he did know that it's just not true.

Ray Roche
405 Posted 29/06/2013 at 10:46:35
James 576 & Gary 579.

I think you boys should have a proper look at what I've written. It begins "What if". It doesn't begin "Baines doesn't really like Moyes" – it was a view from a different angle, and not necessarily mine; it was something to open up a debate which is going along the usual Moyes bashing route, something of which I have occasionally been guilty of myself, although I shall be eternally grateful to Moyes for giving us some pride back and lifting us from the perpetual relegation battle and I can see his good points as well as his bad.

It also suggests that the football, despite Baines being allowed to raid down our left flank seemingly at will, has been less than free flowing for much of Moyes tenure. Any of you want to dispute that? These pages are overflowing with the "Dithering, Dour Davey" comments and use anything to slag off Moyes's negative outlook.
"What if" , Gary, with respect, it is NOT horseshit. I have stood behind an incontinent Police horse in Gwladys St and it bears absolutely no resemblance.

Brian Waring
406 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:05:49
It's funny you know, Mark Hughes was called a cunt, twat and every other name under the sun because he came in for Lescott; Moyes comes in for Baines and that seems to be okay for some on here.
Alan Smith
407 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:16:29
Gary Carter,

The only reason we get called 'bitter' is because kopites are thick and can only use alliteration to explain themselves. Not only that, it's the only come-back they have, when you point something out to them.

Moyes is not your child. No matter how fantastic a man he is, I'm sure he has made some mistakes and done some wrong in his life. Some people on here will defend every single thing he's ever done. He's not god, so why call someone 'bitter' just because they make what many would call a valid point?

He's out of order for messing the club about when we were so close to top 4 and winning an FA Cup. Then he can't wait until july before making an approach for Baines.

He even put Man Utd and the New York stock market first when announcing he was going. Where was his famous decency then? Two games we had left, it made us look like Man Utd's poor relation, bending over to whatever they want.

Moyes was brilliant overall. But you can't call someone 'bitter' for saying what every neutral would think.

Gary Carter
408 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:32:53
Ray, apologies... I do seem to have overlooked the "what if". But I very strongly dispute the "Dour Davey, dour football" tag. At times we played some brilliant football under Moyes, at times we didn't, just like most teams in the Premier League, but I would say that, more often than not, we played better football.

It's also held up by stats last season that I think, and I could be wrong, had us in the top 4 for creating chances. This would also argue against the "Moyes ruins strikers" BS spouted on here but that's another argument. Some of the chances Jelavic missed last season had nothing to do with Moyes making him work for the team!

The "Dithering Dave" tag came about due to his perceived lack of transfer dealings that the Moyes bashers liked to harp on. This despite them having no knowledge of our finances and the implications this had on Moyes although one thing generally accepted by 99% of ToffeeWebbbers is that we are skint!

And if you read my post properly, you will note that I wrote horeshit, I've stood behind a hore on the Reeperbahn in Germany as she takes a ..... okay probably best not to go there :-)

NB I know it's spelt 'whore' and have omitted the 'w' for purely comedic purposes, any people or events depicted in this joke are purely for entertainment purposes only and never happened for real.......... :-)

Ray Roche
409 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:39:08
Brian,
Mark Hughes was called a cunt, twat and every other name largely because he IS a cunt, twat etc.

IF Moyes has made the offer and it's not from the Director of Bloody Football or whatever they call themselves, then he is also a cunt, twat etc.

It's also funny that Moyes is getting loads on here for apparently coming in for Baines yet we are advocating Martinez to do the same for Kone, Uncle Tom Cobbley and his cat. Strange.

Ray Roche
410 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:44:57
Gary, I always thought the Dithering Dave bit related to his, well, dithering, when we were all screaming for him to "make the change" and bring on a sub with more than 10 minutes to go to make his mark.

I agree that the football last season and some of the previous one was of a standard that we haven't seen for years, something I alluded to in my first comment, and I wonder if it was Moysey showing just what he could do when he wanted to. You know, make himself more "saleable".

It certainly entertained me for much of the time, although, on occasions, the usual sitting back when we're 1 up with 15 minutes to go cost us dearly. Norwich, Fulham etc.

Paul Andrews
411 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:28:53
James,

15 games in 4 seasons?

Sunderland,
Fulham
Swansea
Birmingham
Blackpool
Wolves
Sigma
Aek
Hull.

That is my point.

Paul Andrews
412 Posted 29/06/2013 at 11:53:58
Please.
Those that fall back on "the stats say" — Just use your eyes for analysis of the style of play.
Andy Rogers
413 Posted 29/06/2013 at 12:19:06
I wasn't there but several people have said that, at the final game of the season he stood in front of the fans for ages, more than just to show his appreciation but as if he was saying goodbye.
Carl Sanderson
414 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:22:24
Brian 594:

Hughes didn't just "come in for Lescott". He took the piss, treating Everton and Moyes with complete disrespect. The two situations are different.

Ross Edwards
415 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:35:03
So Carl, a man who is still employed by the club officially until July 1st making a bid for a player at a club he still works for, after promising not to before he left, as well as happily taking a month's wages while hobnobbing with Giggs and Fergie is OK is it?

Scott Robinson
417 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:36:08
Carl:

There is business and there are gentleman's agreements. Both are compatible in this world, unless you believe that everyone is for themselves and morality and dignity has a place in this world anymore which is unfortunate.

If one can't find a suitable left back from all the clubs around the world, then he's got some work to do. For that record, I don't want any of Wigan's best players - if I was a Wigan supporter, I would feel let down. Having said that, you make a good point about United being a listed company and acting in the best interests of shareholders, but I would like to think there is some hope in the world that both could mutually exist.

James Bowman
418 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:23:28
John Gee (551) ... exactly right!

Time to place 6 large eggs next to the back door to ripen ready for Man Utd at home I think!.... Give the Ginger One the welcome back that bid deserves!!

11 years in charge means nothing now, he's Man Utd manager. This bid proves the man does not respect his former employer. So we in turn should show him no respect.

COYB!

James Martin
419 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:46:54
Paul, I only did 3 seasons and only those that I could remember off the top of my head. Anyway, using your own line, you don't need to look at stats.

Some people think the football hasn't been that good; some people think it has. I think that, by the end, Moyes could not win either way. He'd have a series of 5 or 6 matches of great football and as soon as there was one tepid draw thrown in, everyone would be on about how he'd served up nothing but 11 years of dour football.

I've never heard anyone arguing that it's been 11 years of great football - because it hasn't; its a ridiculous argument that's equally ridiculous as someone saying that it's been 11 years of dour football, yet people seem to say the latter all the time.

Michael Brien
420 Posted 29/06/2013 at 13:47:30
Mike Hughes (#498),

I totally agree with your sentiments about the bid for Baines. I work in Lincoln and I mentioned the £12M bid to a couple of my mates at work – they are not Evertonians, but both of them thought that it was a very poor offer and one said that he thought it was bordering on being insulting!

I am sure that if, this time last year, Man Utd, Arsenal or Man City etc had made such an offer, David Moyes would have totally dismissed it. I am quite disappointed that he has shown the same lack of respect to Everton, that he accused Mark Hughes of doing during the "Lescott affair".

Paul Andrews
421 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:00:17
James, I don't use stats, I use my eyes.

I did say last season he played more expansive football that went against the style of the previous 5-6 years. I won't use his first few years as he had a job on his hands to change what he was left with; whether that was to show prospective employers he could play differently, who knows.

If you watch and know football, without being patronising, you know for the majority of his stay he prefers to keep it tight and not take too many chances. That is proved by the amount of draws he gets. He won't take a chance to win a game in case, by opening up, he loses the game.

Al Philby
422 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:05:35
Give us £30M and you can have your Baines.
Paul Andrews
423 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:06:43
Apologies,that should be to James.
James Martin
424 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:17:27
Paul, there's a difference between saying that he kept things tight and a difference between saying that he played dour defensive football. Mourinho keeps things tight, Benitez keeps things tight, Capello kept things tight. European Cup winners the lot of them. In fact, the only manager in the league who didn't keep things tight is now managing us. When Arsene kept things tight he was winning titles. Keeping it tight doesn't equal bad football though.

I'm not agruing that Moyes kept things tight; if he'd kept them tighter, we wouldn't have so many draws last season, but, yes, he did marshall the defense well and have a system within which to play.

I'm arguing against this ridiculous all-too-often pedalled notion that we've witnessed 11 years of dour hoofball football which is just not true. If we had, he wouldn't be managing Man Utd. The football has been fine, and outside of Man Utd, Arsenal, Cheslea and Tottenham under Redknapp it's been better than everyone else's football in the Premier League.

Carl Sanderson
425 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:18:23
Scott 638:

"If one can't find a suitable left back from all the clubs around the world, then he's got some work to do."

Moyes has made a big contribution to Baines's development into an England international; they appear to have a good working relationship; the player is by common consent one of the best in his position; he lives locally; Moyes can offer him a massive pay rise, a good chance of trophies and European football.

Why should Moyes not go for him; and for that matter, why should Baines not leave?

Paul Andrews
426 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:24:37
Have to disagree with you there, James. You lost me when you said "if he had kept it tighter we would not have had so many draws". Have a look at who some of the draws we're against, and have a look at how many were at home.

By the way, Mourinho prefers a style of football where he sits his teams in, to draw the opposition on to them, then breaks using quick incisive football. In fact, he keeps it so tight — have a look at how many goals Real Madrid scored in the league last year.

Carl Sanderson
427 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:25:04
Michael (#641):

"I am quite disappointed that he has shown the same lack of respect to Everton, that he accused Mark Hughes of doing during the "Lescott affair"."

He hasn't. Hughes gave several provocative interviews about the Lescott deal, on one occasion stating that he was going to talk to "the people who make the decisions," ie, not Moyes.

In the present case, Manchester United have bid low for one of our players. That's all.

Jim Knightley
429 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:54:03
I don't think the amount of goals Real Madrid score is a good indication of Mourinho's defensive tactics... they have easily the second best squad in their league, and the likes of Ronaldo, Higuain and Di Maria at their disposal. They were also forced to be more attacking at the end of matches this season, because of a series of defensive failures, primarily caused by injuries and player/manager disputes.

Mourinho is arguably the most defensive of the top top managers in football – his tactics in the 2011 Champions League first group match against Barca were disgraceful – he essentially played for a draw. I've never seen a Real team, or in fact any top team do that against relatively matched opposition.

His tactics at previous clubs also illustrate a desire to put defence first, ensure wide men put a shift in, and then think about attack. I don't see Moyes's tactics as too dissimilar (although Mourinho is on another level imo)...if we had more variety in the attacking positions, and a top striker, we would have scored more goals last season.

Our defence is good, although I think we need a top defensive midfielder... what we need is investment in a top striker, and some attacking depth to the squad. We would have finished higher last season if we had been backed by the board when we needed too... it was them, not Moyes, that let us down.

Paul Andrews
430 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:58:44
"I don't think the goals Real Madrid score is a good indication of Mourinho's defensive tactics."

113 goals in 38 games, Jim. Imagine how many they would score if Mourinho threw off the defensive shackles.

Jamie Barlow
431 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:59:02
What has Carl said that's wrong, Ross?
Carl Sanderson
432 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:02:23
Jim 657:

That was a good post. Everton did play some excellent football last season and, but for the Board's ineptitude, we could have had an exceptional season. The squad depth just wasn't there.

It's frustrating to think that even half a dozen more goals from Jelavic could easily have put us in the top four.

John Crawley
434 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:05:38
Paul, you're also forgetting the season before last, Mourinho broke the Spanish record for goals scored in La Liga and the most wins in La Liga. Mourinho is not a defensive-minded coach – he adjusts his tactics to suit the players he has at his disposal – he is a proactive coach whilst Moyes is a reactive one.

Just to be clear on this: Moyes has made a bid for a player that Kenwright told him wasn't for sale when he was leaving and also asked him not to bid for; he's made the bid public; he's made the bid when we are about to enter new contract negotiations with the player; he's made the bid when he is still contracted to Everton as their manager; he's made a bid for the same amount which he apparently dismissed last year when he was Everton manager....

Yet he isn't being disrespectful?

Paul Andrews
435 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:14:44
John Crawley,

Spot on. On both points.

Ross Edwards
436 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:09:10
Jamie, it seems Mr Sanderson doesn't understand that bidding for a player he still officially works with until July 1st is just wrong.

Let's not forget, one of Moyes's USPs according to his supporters was his loyalty and dignity. And, he promised in one of his last interviews of the season that he wouldn't sign any Everton player when he takes over at Man Utd, that has turned out to be a lie.

In my mind, worst of all, due mainly to our idiotic board and chairman he has earned a month's pay for doing no work at all, spending his time hobnobbing with Giggs and meeting Ferguson a week before our final game against Chelsea.

Carl keeps going on about Hughes and Lescott-gate, but in my mind this is worse as he is trying to sign a player, at what is a frankly insulting price – a player that he works with until Monday.

Let Mr Sanderson defend him as much as he likes, I'm just saying he's wrong, Jamie.

Chris James
437 Posted 29/06/2013 at 14:46:49
Sigh... and the anti-Moyes bitterness continues.

I reckon some of you will still be banging on about this in 3 years time, god forbid making a case for how Moyes laid the foundations and was really responsible for our relegation and subsequent financial meltdown.

The point about the dour football is frankly ridiculous after last season. I'll agree that Moyes was a defensive-minded coach and that we watched some less-than-inspiring football in the early years (albeit at the result of raising our average league position with a negative net transfer spend). That said I don't recall watching too much scintillating stuff under Royle, Walker, Kendall (Mk 2/3) or Smith – I believe our FA Cup winning team were known as 'Dogs of War'.

The truth is that a large part of the playing style will be down to the quality of the players available – it's all very well trying to emulate Barca, Real and Arsenal but if you don't have Iniesta, Fabregas, Henry, Bergkamp, Ronaldo, Zidane, Messi, etc then the reality is the players aren't going to be able to compete. So how do you level the playing field with no money and a less talented team?

Moyes's solution was a great team spirit, strong work ethic and a hard-to-beat direct counter-attacking approach. Not always gorgeous to watch, but unarguably effective (and why he scooped LMA awards and the Man Utd job).

Above and beyond that, though, the last couple of years have been a completely different ball-game. Moyes repeatedly tried to bring in talented players on a tight budget (Arteta and Pienaar succeeded, Drenthe and Van der Mayde didn't) and steadily improve the team – he even tried to bring in ball-playing defenders (Heitinga worked for a while then didn't). With the addition of Felliani, Mirallas, Jelavic (last season), return of Pienaar and flourishing of Coleman, Osman (and of course the ever present Baines) he finally had a group of players (and even then first team only, no money = thin squad) to deliver on a more attacking, attractive vision. Hence, since January 2012 at least we've transformed into a far more attractive team to watch and indeed for the first half of last year created more chances (and I'd argue were playing better football) than anyone else in the league.

As for the other point, about Moyes making an approach for players, will you please just grow up. All that's happened is that one club have made a legitimate bid for a player at another club. There's been no evidence of underhand tapping-up, no public statements to try and unsettle the player and ultimately I don't really see the problem. Yes, the bid is low in reality and even lower in our eyes as fans, but, for the less business-minded of you, that's how negotiating works – you tend not to go in with your top offer straight away.

And of course it's likely that Moyes has had no real involvement in the price offered for the player at all. Unlike at Goodison, where every penny needs to be counted and all senior staff involved in each buy, at Old Trafford, it's more likely to be a case of him handing over a list of targets (including some that Ferguson and other senior officials will have suggested) and Man Utd's team doing the rest.

Oh, and as for comparisons between Moyes and Mourinho? Seriously? Are you really going to try and make a comparison there?

I think if you did just a smidgeon of fact-checking, you'd see that the Special One has had rather more resources play with over the years, in terms of money, higher profile clubs (CL regulars) and rather better, deeper starting squads.

Maybe give Davey a year or two with the level playing field of Man Utd before you call that into question...

Ross Edwards
439 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:23:07
I notice you are continuing the Moyes love in Chris...
Jamie Barlow
440 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:19:38
Ross, Moyes is the Manchester United manager NOW, whether it's official or not. Why you think he should still be loyal to Everton, I don't get.

Also, it's nothing like the Lescott saga. Hughes was a cunt of the highest order by constantly talking about Lescott to the press.

I also don't understand why you're upset about the low bid. It's called negotiating. We say No; they come back with a higher bid. We say No; and so it goes on.

One last thing: could you point me in the direction of this interview where Moyes said he wouldn't sign any Everton player for Man Utd? I'll take everything back that I've said if he did say that.

Chris Morris
441 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:26:38
Moyes was the best worst coach who played the most positive negative football throughout his Everton tenure. He spent millions of IOU's on players when he didn't have anything to barter with and we did alright.

There, that settles it.

Ross Edwards
442 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:28:44
Jamie, I don't think it was an interview but this is close enough:

New Manchester United Boss Moyes Agrees "Hands Off" Deal Over Baines and Fellaini

Slate me even more if you like...

Mat Fearon
443 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:29:13
Spot on, Jamie.

This is very simple: Moyes is now the manager of Man Utd irrespective is whether he is still being paid by Everton for a few more days. His job is to build the best Man Utd team he can, so he has every right to go for Baines. He owes us no loyalty. Just as Martinez has every right to go for any Wigan player.

Paul Andrews
444 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:27:02
You're right Chris, James was silly bringing Mourinho into the debate re style of football; trying to compare the Special One's tactics to Moyes's tactics was a mistake.

One thing that could help you with the comparison: Do a smidgen of fact checking and see how much Mourinho spent in winning a domestic double and Uefa Cup in 2003 and in winning the Champions League in 2004.

Andy Crooks
445 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:29:53
Gary (#571), does winning the FA cup not count in some way?

You may not like it but my post seems accurate to me.

Mat Fearon
446 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:41:02
Ross, a well known publication and journalist; it must be right eh?

Since when has a new manager agreed not to go back to his previous club for players; it simply does not happen.

Ross Edwards
447 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:46:06
It would with Moyes and Bill, Mat.
Jamie Barlow
448 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:39:50
Stop getting your knickers in a twist, Ross. I haven't slated you once. I just asked some questions that's all. Basically, Kenwright said he had an agreement with Moyes that he wouldn't come back for any of our players — and you believe him? Why?
Mike Green
449 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:39:47
Not often I does this but Ross Edwards is right.

I haven't got a problem with Moyes arranging his desk tidy and giving his new office a move around whilst he waits for his contracts to switch over, but if this is true and he has put an insultingly low, formal bid in for our best player whilst still on our payroll then it's fucking outrageous.

Ross is right: it's wrong, particularly as they know our manager who starts on Monday is out of the country right now. Bang out of order.

Ross Edwards
450 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:50:44
If Moyes said that to him beforehand in their last meeting, Jamie, then you have to believe him.

If I said it on here then it could be a load of crap but, if it was discussed between Bill and Moyes, then it is true.

Jamie Barlow
451 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:55:08
Ha ha, brilliant Ross.
Mat Fearon
452 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:52:17
There are two points here: The first, whether Man Utd should bid for Baines whilst Moyes is still paid by Everton for a few more days. The second, whether he should bid for Baines at all. The first I have no issue with, as fundamentally he is now the Man Utd manager, but I can see why those who hate him have an issue with it. In relation to the second point, there is no argument. Can you imagine the conversation?

David Gill: "David, we need a new left back, Evra has been shite for years... That Baines bloke is great, we have been after him for ages.

Moyes: "Sorry, boss but I have agreed with BK not to go for Baines."

David Gill: "What on earth are you on about? Put a fooking bid in! You are the Man Utd manager now!!!"

Mike Corcoran
453 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:56:09
I've said it before, Baines will stay. He values his happiness and anonimity more than anything. He'd rather hang out at Glastonbury than at Old Trafford with a bunch of immature spit roasters.
Mike Corcoran
455 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:56:09
He'd rather be in our Arctic Monkeys than their Simply Red.
Chris Morris
456 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:02:13
As opposed to those mature spit roasters?

Oh dear!!!

Kevin Tully
458 Posted 29/06/2013 at 15:54:28
I love all this "get over it and "he's only doing his job"

There is one post that takes the proverbial biscuit though (and out of 437, that takes some doing,) congrats Chris James: "(including some that Ferguson and other senior officials will have suggested) and Man Utd's team doing the rest."

Not to be outdone by that part, you go on to list all of his "achievements" in his full 11 years as some sort or warped defence of him wanting our Player of the Season, for a relative pittance. Even you cannot deny he has intimate knowledge of our finances, and has duly given insider information to his new paymasters.

Incredible.

Mark Frere
459 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:10:22
I solely blame our board for this farcical situation, BK and Moyes should've parted ways as soon as Moyes accepted the Man Utd post. Moyes should also have had the integrity to walk away as well.

This whole situation is just another farce, which adds to a long list of cock-ups from BK and his cronies.

Since the season as ended, Moyes will have had Man Utd's best interests at heart, what's to say he hasn't had any discussions with Baines about joining him at Old Trafford?

Only here at Everton could I ever imagine such a farcical situation. TBH nothing surprises me with this board anymore!

John Crawley
460 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:10:03
Mat (#692) — unless he's got split personalities, Moyes will have a bit of difficulty having that conversation with David Gill as he's left Man Utd!
Mat Fearon
461 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:27:33
John, I think he is still CEO. But if not, insert one of the Glazers and the conversation will be the same...!
Carl Sanderson
462 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:26:54
Mark 704:

Totally right. Twelve months ago, Kenwright should have put a contract extension under Moyes's nose and said, "Sign here or piss off". Then, at the least, we would have got some compensation when Man Utd came knocking.

Perhaps Kenwright simply could not believe that Moyes would walk away? I couldn't say... But it is his fault, pure and simple, that we are in our present position — no compensation and Moyes trying to cherry-pick our better players.

John Crawley
463 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:38:49
Carl, I agree with you about Kenwright's behaviour over Moyes's contract but that doesn't absolve the way that Moyes is acting now.
Mike Corcoran
464 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:38:17
Paul Andrews.
Yes but only once which is a lot less repetitious than the majority of people's comments!
Ste Traverse
465 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:12:25
The last 12 months have proved Moyes is nothing but a self-serving twat. Just like the clown he used to work for.

Can't stand the phony now... so much I even hope the RS batter his Mancs when they pitch up at Anfield for an early season game.

Carl Sanderson
466 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:42:44
John 710:

Sorry, John, but I just don't buy it. Man United have made an offer, which is unquestionably derisory.

It is perfectly possible that Moyes was not directly involved on the financial side. United's officials will know that Everton are skint. (They won't need Moyes to tell them that; they could simply read the reports from last week's EGM.) Hence the low bid.

Paul Andrews
467 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:51:40
Mike,

I agree 100%

Wayne Smyth
469 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:52:20
Forgive me for asking a question which has probably been answered before, but what makes us think that Moyes is in fact still under contract and being paid by the club?

If we suppose that the normal end-date for a contract is 30th June, then do we know that Everton and Utd didn't come to some arrangement to cover the last few weeks of Moyes contract?

John Crawley
470 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:54:23
Come off it, Carl, the bids been made and sanctioned by Moyes – not some mysterious Man Utd executive! He's done it after Kenwright's told him he wasn't for sale and asked him not to bid. He's also done it just before we are about to start contract negotiations and to rub salt into the wounds he's done it while still getting paid by us! The sycophantic support for the way Moyes has behaved is unbelievable.
Eugene Ruane
471 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:59:26
If there's a punk revival, anyone fancy forming a band and calling ourselves 'The Immature Spit Roasters'?
Jackie Barry
472 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:04:56
His contract ends on June 30th; therefore – unless he has requested not to be paid – then he is still likely to be paid up until this point; that's how contracts work.

Anyway, if Baines does leave, who are we going to get to replace him? I don't want some kind of makeshift defence and it worries me when I think of our back four being broken up, especially with Martinez's defensive record. No disrespect to our manager, like.

Carl Sanderson
473 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:04:54
John 719:

It's quite possible that Moyes identifies the player he wants and then the relevant official (Ed Woodward?) negotiates the deal.

Whether Everton are "about to start contract negotiations" with Baines is neither here nor there: Do you expect United to wait politely until these negotiations break down before making their move? I don't think so.

As for "sycophantic support", well, I invite you to re-read my previous posts. Nowhere have I expressed support for Moyes.

Mat Fearon
474 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:12:58
John, can you explain how you think Moyes and Man U should act in this situation?
Eric Myles
475 Posted 29/06/2013 at 16:55:09
Tony #556 "he is now trying to use his knowledge of our financial position to get our best players on the cheap"

Do you think there's a yak farmer in Outer Mongolia that doesn't know the financial shit our board have gotten us into? Never mind our peers with connections in the Premier League!

Chris Morris
476 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:12:38
Roberto Martinez........... isn't he going to be the Everton manager?

Forget Moyes and his failings or his successes (whichever you prefer) and move on. If Baines goes to United then he goes. Simple. If he stays then he stays. Even simpler.

So what if the bid was derisory? It was an opening offer and was expected to be rejected. I'd expect the next 2 to be rejected also. Then if the money's right we can sell him. Even simplerer

Alan Smith
477 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:00:20
You can still love someone (I personally wouldn't love anyone connected with football there all just professional employees doing a job) and admit that they've done something wrong.

Or in this case, Moyes has at least been extremely bad mannered, by not waiting until HE and Martinez officially take over. And then speaking to Martinez directly.

He is totally infallible in some people's eyes and that's not possible not matter how good you think he is... he makes mistakes, we all do!

Eric Myles
478 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:15:34
Paul #566, exactly right, as nobody is going to come in for Fellaini at 25 mill then who is our next best saleable asset to provide the new manager with funds?

That's why the Club are preparing us for Baines exit and trying to start a bidding war for him.

Eric Myles
479 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:15:34
Paul #566, exactly right, as nobody is going to come in for Fellaini at 25 mill then who is our next best saleable asset to provide the new manager with funds?

That's why the Club are preparing us for Baines exit and trying to start a bidding war for him.

Eric Myles
480 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:25:38
Steven #569, great in theory but complete bullshit in practice as a player just has to let his contract expire and not renew to get a move on a Bosman.
Eric Myles
481 Posted 29/06/2013 at 17:30:14
Andy #616, could it possibly have something to do with him having been announced as United's new manager a couple of weeks earlier and he WAS actually saying goodbye?
Wayne Smyth
482 Posted 29/06/2013 at 20:09:40
Jackie, I suspect it would have ended on june 30th, but I find it difficult to believe that he's been allowed to work for Man U while being paid by everton.

I know our board are incompetent, but that is stretching the boundaries. A lot of people seem to have a lot of hate based on something that seems to me to be very unlikely to be the case.

Ste Traverse
483 Posted 29/06/2013 at 21:37:27
Wayne Smyth #718.

Of course Moyes is still under contract and being paid by us.

Why the hell would Manchester United pay Moyes 6 weeks (or so) wages when they don't have too??

John Crawley
484 Posted 30/06/2013 at 09:38:00
Mat (#725) — for a start, he should have waited until he was no longer under contract to the club! Then I would have expected him to speak to Martinez directly. Moyes is a hypocrite and has been taking the piss the way he's acted over this.

Here's what he said about Hughes over the Lescott situation:- "I've always tried to contact the managers and show respect to them in terms of transfers – and no matter how much money I might have to spend, I would always want to keep that up."

Ray Roche
485 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:09:04
John, I doubt if Moyes is the one who will be doing the contacting. He may have been the Big Shot here but at Manchester United I think he'll have less power than that. To keep it in perspective, Martinez is reported to have spoken to Baines (and others) yet he's not our manager until July 1st. We're not getting angry about that, though.
John Crawley
486 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:27:28
Ray you're missing the point: Moyes is quite clearly on record as saying HE would always contact the opposing manager first. How the deal then gets concluded is up to how each club is run. Therefore he's a hypocrite.

The point about Martinez speaking to Everton players is complete rubbish!

Sam Hoare
487 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:39:17
John, how do you know Moyes has not contacted Martinez about it? Also, how do you know that the Baines bid is being orchestrated by him? Is it not possible that a club of Man Utd's size has a transfer policy that will not be dictated just by the newbie manager?
Ray Roche
488 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:41:23
John, I'm not missing the point at all: Moyes at Everton is a different animal to Moyes at Man Utd. At Everton, he had more power, at United I think you'll find he's an average fish in a pretty big pool, the opposite to his time spent here. It was fine for Moyes to be calling the shots and Billy His Bitch would allow him anything he wanted, but to the Glazers he's just a new apprentice manager.

The point about Martinez is also not "rubbish". Moyes, and I'm not carrying a torch for the guy, has been roundly slagged off on these pages for "still being our manager" and conducting business for United. Martinez isn't OUR manager until 1st July but it sits easily with us for him to be conducting our business. If he IS our manager, why the hell is he arsing about covering some money spinning Cup competition on the other side of the world?

Paul Andrews
489 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:45:09
Sam, You contradicted yourself there.

Moyes will have asked for Baines... Moyes knocked Man Utd back this year when they bid £12 mil... Man Utd have bid £12mil.

Not fuckin' rocket science.

Ciarán McGlone
490 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:49:26
Sam,

Are you seriously suggesting that Man Utd's new manager is being undermined by someone at the club buying players that Moyes has not sanctioned?

Frankly, I think that suggestion is ludicrous.

Paul Andrews
491 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:51:46
Hallelujah, Ciaran.
Ray Roche
492 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:52:52
Ciaran, do you not think that managers these days provide a list of players that they want and someone else does the financial side of it? Do you honestly think that Moyes, AVB, Mourhino etc. will be sat there talking money? I think it's changed since Catterick met Ball on the M62...
Paul Andrews
493 Posted 30/06/2013 at 11:00:47
Ray,

Do you not think Baines's name was on that list?

If so you have answered your own question.

John Crawley
494 Posted 30/06/2013 at 10:58:45
Sam, I can only go on press reports from The Times and The Guardian which both said that contact was first made by club officials from Manchester United.

Ray, well fuck me... Man Utd are even controlling Moyes's ability to pick the phone up? Who would have known their control over Moyes would have stretched so far!

The ability of some people to keep defending Moyes over this is amazing. Alastair Campbell could learn a thing or too.

John Crawley
495 Posted 30/06/2013 at 11:11:15
Ray, the point about Martinez talking to Everton players is complete rubbish because it doesn't make any sense as an analogy. If Martinez had put a bid in for a Wigan player whilst still under contract to Wigan then you would have a point — but he hasn't — and you don't.
Sam Hoare
496 Posted 30/06/2013 at 11:24:43
Paul, where's the contradiction?

Ciaran, no I am not suggesting that. Read my post again.

John, it may be true but I'm sure there's a lot more that goes on behind the scenes that neither we nor the media are made aware of.

Ray Roche
497 Posted 30/06/2013 at 12:26:49
Paul Andrews @ 935

Paul, whether Baines was on a list or not isn't what I was saying, as such; the point is that I doubt very much if ANY manager, Moyes, AVB, Mourinho or Mike Bassett, England manager, sits down and discusses the costs, wages etc., with the player and his agent. If Moyes HADN'T had Baines on his list, I'd have been astonished. Baines, after all, owes much to Moyes for the way his career has flourished so it would be inevitable for Moyes to take him to Old Trafford, if he could.

John,
"Ray, well fuck me Man Utd are even controlling Moyes's ability to pick the phone up" — If that's your attempt at sarcasm, you should try a bit harder. The point about Martinez is this. A man who is NOT the manager of a club (Martinez) speaking to players, agents etc., or supposedly a man (Moyes) putting in a bid for players when he is still the manager of a different club. Neither could be seen to be ethically correct. Again, these columns have been littered with people calling for Martinez to "raid" his old club for McManaman or McCarthy without admitting that it is no different to what Moyes is alleged to have done.

As I've already said, I'm not carrying a torch for Moyes, I just acknowledge the better state we are in now to when he took over. He has, however, pissed on his chips with many of us if the man IS trying to prise Baines away, but in all honesty, I wouldn't blame him for trying.

Ciarán McGlone
498 Posted 30/06/2013 at 12:56:58
"Ciaran, do you not think that managers these days provide a list of players that they want and someone else does the financial side of it? Do you honestly think that Moyes, AVB, Mourhino etc. will be sat there talking money? I think it's changed since Catterick met Ball on the M62... "
-------------------

I think you're losing track of the point... It is irrelevant who made the approach, the fact is that it has been made on behalf of Manchester United's incoming manager – that is Moyes... he obviously sanctioned it.

As for the associated point – I have no doubt that managers will give their opinion on valuation..

The approach has been an act of bad faith in my opinion... and the offer, which is apparently closer to £10 million, is derisory.

Brian Waring
499 Posted 30/06/2013 at 13:07:46
"Do you not think that managers these days provide a list of players that they want and someone else does the financial side of it?"

So when Moyes gets lauded for the players we have brought in at bargain prices, and lauded for the players we have sold on at a profit, in all reality someone else at the club should be getting all the praise because they would have done the financial side?

Brian Waring
500 Posted 30/06/2013 at 13:19:17
Supposedly, BK is seething over this bid being made, because of the agreement that had been made between the two of them.
Ray Roche
501 Posted 30/06/2013 at 13:28:12
Ciarán, I completely agree: Managers will sanction or express a desire to sign whoever. I am also disappointed that Moyes has, although understandably, reportedly put Baines on his list.

As for the so-called agreement between Billy and Moyes, that's Boys Pen Billy talking through his trumper. Do you honestly believe that Moyes WOULDN'T come in for the second-best left back in the Prem, a man who Moyes has nurtured for 6 years?

Brian, Do you think Moyes will enjoy the same degree of authority at Old Trafford that he did at Goodison? I don't.

I, personally, think Moyes was a lot more hands on here than he will be allowed to be at OT. And, yes, I further think that he had much to do with the signing of Cahill, Lescott, Arteta, Coleman, Baines etc., due to his own statements regarding the number of times he watched those same players before we bought them. Oh, sorry, he was "dithering", wasn't he...

As I've already said, he's pissed on his chips now, but I can't deny the good things he brought to this club.

Carl Sanderson
502 Posted 30/06/2013 at 15:52:59
Brian:

"Supposedly, BK is seething over this bid being made, because of the agreement that had been made between the two of them."

So BK thought he had an agreement with Moyes? That would be the same BK who thought he had an agreement with NTL and sanctioned a load of expenditure on the strength of a deal that had not been signed. The same BK who thought he had an agreement for investment from FSF.

What have we done to deserve him?

Eric Myles
503 Posted 01/07/2013 at 06:04:25
John #918, nobody from United could contact our manager because we don't have one until later today.
Michael Brien
504 Posted 01/07/2013 at 07:13:09
I understand that you don't come in first with your best bid - but £12M that is insulting ,and we ALL know that David Moyes if such as bid had been made a year ago would have regarded it as being an insult. If Man United had made a bid of say £15M I would not have been so annoyed. I

t's as simple as that. If you want people to treat you with respect then treat them with respect. If we bid £3M for Hernandez do you you think Manchester United would be happy with that?They would probably regard it as insulting. And it's not any Anti Moyes bias so all the Moyes luvvies out there can cool it - I would feel the same about any £12M offer for Baines; be it from Man United, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs or whoever.

Peter Foy
505 Posted 01/07/2013 at 08:30:27
Carl,

'The same BK who thought he had an agreement for investment from FSF.'

This is not true. The Fortress Sports Fund was a blatant lie which has been admitted since. It was simply made up to get rid of Gregg. The official line was that it was (The lie) 'a means to an end'.

Don't forget that the terrible Mr Gregg wanted to build the King's Dock stadium which would have ultimately diluted blue Bill's shares.

Carl Sanderson
506 Posted 01/07/2013 at 10:14:25
Peter:

Fair enough. So he's a fucking liar, then, rather than being merely useless.

It's hard to decide which is worse, really - the lies or the incompetence.

Peter Foy
507 Posted 01/07/2013 at 14:02:48
Good point Carl.

I suppose I could put up with the bullshit if he was doing a tremendous job of running the club. On the other hand, I don't think we'd be happy if he was honest about being incompetent.

Carl Sanderson
508 Posted 01/07/2013 at 14:45:41
Peter,

He's actually an incompetent liar, isn't he? Let's face it, he's been caught out often enough.

Pity he's such a shameless twat.

Mike Green
509 Posted 01/07/2013 at 14:56:11
Carl #242 - how about incompetent, lying, shameless twat...?
Carl Sanderson
510 Posted 01/07/2013 at 15:42:47
Mike,

You nailed it.

Peter Foy
511 Posted 01/07/2013 at 18:59:09
That's it, ILST.

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