Is it in Martinez contract that Osman and Pienar have to start? We have done great without Pienar for long enough and Osman has already shown he is now only a bit part player, I know we have no depth in squad but surely the Spanish lad needs some real game time to gel with the team and Barkley must be thinking Hera we go again as he sits warming the bench.

Woah is me..........................

No real penetration up front and changes needed for second half. Surely Deulofeu can perform against this lot and neither Mirallas nor Pienaar would be missed on current form. We are so slow in our build-up.

For the first time this season I have to question RMs decision making.

I am tearing my hair out with Mirallas, guy seems to have just dissappeared this season, take a man on lad and run at your full back a bit more, as for Pienaar? Why do him and Baines always need 50 passes before getting the ball in the box?

When is the last time we scored direct from a corner? I would like to know if anybody has the answer? When is the last time we scored more than 3 goals in a match? Is it really that hard? Seems like other teams do it weekly.

As for the Derby, well I am being honest in saying I am really really fearing the worst in two weeks time; I hate Suarez but I've got to say what a fucking outstanding striker that shite is.

I will say it again: we need quality up front in January, sign Defoe or at least try to. He will want to try and get in that World Cup squad and okay, he may not be garaunteed a first team place here, but we cannot just say Lukaku will play every week regardless of form.

It is only Palace incompetence that is saving us. Out shouted and outplayed and Mirallas is only just being pulled off....

A long afternoon and Mirallas not happy to come off, what does he think he has done to warrant staying on?

Still, Osman, Pienar and Mirallas will start in the next game....

Fuck off, Mirallas... Start playing well and you won't get subbed! I'm getting a bit tired this season of his namby pamby behavoiur / perfomances.

COME ON, DELBOY!

Our end product is shocking at times

Why do we have so many issues with our simple passing game; so many players are struggling with this!

Baines didn't play well at all and tbh he doesn't look interested!

Last week, Pienaar put in one of the worst displays in a blue shirt for a long time, yet he was still selected this week. Not only that, he took a knock, was about to come off, but told the manager he could stay, so he played 90 minutes. Is this guy serious? I think we all know which player has the picture of RM and the goat, and it only took us 11 games to find out.

Osman isn't worth the paragraph space anymore. Copy and paste the same points from last week.

Baines needs to stop reading the papers and websites and get back to playing how he used to and actually doing something with the ball. One thing a player must do after telling another player off from taking a dead ball play is actually perform a decent level of dead ball. His corners have been trash, and I don't see how Deulofeu could have done any worse.

Mirallas wasn't much better, but he was trying to get involved up front. Rom wasn't being effective as a loan striker so for the life of me I can't understand why Del wasn't brought on for Osman to push Kev into the middle with Lukaku.

All in all, that was one of the most ridiculous (not worst, just ridiculous) matches I've seen us play all season, and tactics and team selection are beginning to be Moyesian in their rigidity home and away.

Once again the charity team.

Complete bollocks. The good media skills and talk of philosophy are one thing. But insipid tippy tappy is another.

We seemed to revert to early season form with this game. Slow build up and the opposition mark everyone out of the game.

You can pass pass pass about as much as you like but today the great Martinez philosophy was as creative as a Moyes team on a bad day.

We seem to have a middle ground with Martinez. All the play but none of the verve and passion of Moyes' team at its best.

I'm sick of idiots on this site calling people ant-Martinez just for criticising poor performances by ourselves - well NEWS FLASH: We are playing fucking shite most of the time.

Only positive to take from this is the clean sheet, however if we play like this against a better side we will get thrashed. Palace deserved the 3 points today and should have scored 2 or 3. We were lucky to get the point.

Disappointing day and hard to understand what the issue is. Mirallas and Osman are really really poor at the moment. Pienaar isn't much better but at least looks like he's committed and giving 100%. Baines also looks the shadow of the player he used to be (time to take a decent offer in jan and sell?).

Two week break so hopefully the international players can get some form back playing in the country games. We need to improve A LOT as we have some tough games coming up.

Very disappointed with result today, and the shite on fire is very ominous for us.

442 and to hell with tippy tappy. Barkley to shadow Gerrard, play high if Suarez is going to go down easy let it be outside the box and drop Mirallas, Osman and Pienar.

It’s easy this football management, Barkley obvious for Osman, Dela for Pienar and Jelavic for Mirallas.

Game won, move on.

Blame whoever you want, but those players are not earning their massive wages.

Martinez needs to get a grip, and quickly. It's up to him to drop players who are not putting enough effort in, and there are plenty of those.

Jagielka cannot play in this system, forget about him ever getting to grips with this fancy passing a football malarkey.

That was just an extension of the first half against Spurs, and why the fuck can't Lulaku and Jelavic play together?

I can only hope we have got our shite performances out of the way before we play the shite, Utd and Arsenal.

Points wise we are doing O.K. but the last two games have been the worst in a long time.

Baines has clearly moved to OT, and if he plays like that for them, he won't make the bench.

Mid-table beckons and whilst that would have been acceptable at the start of the season, it isn't at this moment in time. RM has his work cut out in the next 12 months to instil a mentality that is a winning mentality. Everything about the players body language was wrong today; if there are players in the squad who are waiting for January, let them wait in the reserves and put the likes of Stones et al in the first team.

I don't think formation is the issue, it was the speed we played. I lost count of the times I was shouting at the TV to play a cross early, rather than passing it around for another minute until Palace had everyone back (...followed up by some dire delivery into the area).

Only bright spot was McCarthy not getting booked, because I thought that was going to be nailed on with his foot up challenge right at the death.

Seems to me you have a top 8 who are hands down above everyone else in the league. We should be having the lion's share of possession in games like these, but other than a top top striker, Martinez has brought no more than sound bites to the club.

OK, admittedly that's harsh but we've just ballsed up against 7 on the bounce Palace. The more things change, the more they stay the same.

The pace of the game was almost walking and there seemed a distinct lack of urgency. Okay, lads, wait till everyone gets back and hit it back to the keeper just to make sure.

Overall a point in the bag from a game we should have taken 3.

It's a game we should be winning, we didn't so people are going to be upset.

The problem is that is is immediate, no time to think on it, so there will be many over the top posts

It's a game we should be winning, we didn't so people are going to be upset.

The problem is that is is immediate, no time to think on it, so there will be many over the top posts

With ratboy on the end of them, that'll be 4 or 5 goals.

Sort it out, Roberto.

That was 2 points dropped and I have the feeling we've been shakey for a few weeks now (first half v nufc aside)

Honeymoon period over. Concerned.

Surely two up-top would have yielded a better result?

We have a man mountain in the box and we don't even give him a chance.

You say we're due to face a frighteningly in-form Liverpool side. I beg to differ; yes, at home they look like they've got goals galore in them... Away? I'm not so sure... although our record in derbies has got me once again shitting myself. After all, that buck-toothed bastard has been through it's a nap he'll bag a brace against us, just when we thought he was away in the summer.

Worrying recent times for the Blues and I really hope Martinez takes stock of the last two performances because, quite frankly, we've looked a poor side

I have never seen so many moves break down from either a poor pass, or the defender getting the better of the attacker.

Lukaku seemed to be surrounded every time he got the ball, so that should have opened up more space elsewhere on the pitch.

Baffling performance.

Too many players out of form at the moment. Baines resembles Pienaar prior to his move to Spurs and Lukaku is Brett Angel in disguise. Mirallas has been rank all season and McCarthy would happily just sit in front of the back four but we already have Barry for that.

We are missing Fellaini more than I thought we would. Hopefully Roberto will have plenty to spend in January because we could do with about 3 players.

Anyway, back to the game, performance was shit and the manager and players need to accept this is not good enough. I hope it was just a bad day at the office but then I think of the first hour against spurs as well....

January cannot come soon enough at this point in time. One thing is clear though, RM needs to get Barkley back into the starting XI as he currently offers a shit load more than the three that started today. Still cannot understand why we started with the same team as last week when we were so bad for the first hour.

Why didn't he put Jelavic up front, just go 4-4-2 and go for it rather than just keeping possession? There was no urgency in either the Palace or the Spurs game to get the 3 points. Even Moyes put an extra striker on in games like Spurs and Palace towards the end.

Delo has made his name in youth team football walking the ball into the net and how much more aesthetic this is that merely shooting once inside the area.

At last I am beginning to understand what our new style is all about. Actually winning matches has become incidental !

But so far he seems to have really solved the problems of OFM in keeping it tight at the back. We now have 6 clean sheets this season, when we only did 10 in the whole of last season. In the same 10 fixtures (not first 10 games, equivalent fixtures) from last year we had conceded 15 goals and this season is only 10. Admittedly we did score 20 goals in the same fixtures last year but we have one more point than last year.

All we need to do now is find a way of sneaking that goal to turn these 0-0s into 1-0s and we are looking good.

We struggled to even create a chance against a side that leak goals for fun. Palace's first clean sheet of the season.

At the moment, reprocessing of the ball is becoming an excuse for players who don't want to take any responsibility.

Just to make my fellow Blues feel a little better, we are only 3 points off second place as the table stands, and the current Champions will go level on points with us if they beat Arsenal.

1 loss in his first 11 games is not too shabby.

We can only get better!

I would like us to play with more speed and directness in our approach play v Liverpool, as trying to mirror their style with so many of the team not at it will only end in one result.

And while we could have the same points as that Manc team if they beat Arsenal tomorrow, we won't be level with them � we shall be below them because they will have a better goal difference. That would really piss me off... but it would only confirm the nature of the opportunity that Martinez has squandered here.

Unfortunately, we can get worse, and it wouldn't have taken much for us to have lost the last two matches, the way we ended up playing.

It's always a big game, but they will be talking about winning the league right now, and if we beat them, we will have the same amount of points.

Time for Roberto and the players to put things right.

Have we had two strikers on the pitch at any one time? I'm personally pissed off with our style of play... pass, pass, pass... no creativity; no chances. What's happened to our full-backs bombing on, working the opposition???

On chances, they should have won... one shot on target last week and two today... Take out 45 minutes against Newcastle and we've been ordinary at best.

Maybe it's just a blip and we're all getting carried away, but the warning signs are there. Like I've said before, when some of your best players are loanees, it must be disheartening.

So yes, the next four league games will be crucial if we are seriously entertaining European ambitions.

Too many players are massively underperforming, and Martinez's loyalty to Osman defies all football logic.

I can not for the life of me remember McCarthy playing a ball forward. I realize Osman, Baines and Mirallas were awful, but I was completely unimpressed with McCarthy. Never played a forward ball. Sideways, back, sideways, sideways... on and on it went. I think part of our incredibly slow build up, a major part of it, was down to McCarthy.

I realize many have been impressed with him "doing a job", but he was simply horrible today in my opinion.

Looked like Rodwell. Everything safe and "east-west" (sorry for the Americanism). No penetrating passes at all. He's got to step it up.

Your honor of your veterans is truly inspiring. You could hear a pin drop.

A moment's silence truly typifies English class. It's beautiful to watch; glorious reverent silence.

It's one of the most beautiful things I've seen in sport. It's just awe-inspiring.

It'll be interesting to see how he performs;

1) For England over the international break, and
2) For us at Old Trafford at the end of the month.

Felli leaving is having a big impact � not just breaking up and moving it forward; McCarthy and Barry can do that, and occasionally do, but the two of them are no attacking threat whatsoever. Our corners now may as well be goalkicks to the opponents: no threat. Shooting from range, wild at best. Undefeated but nowhere near good enough to stay in the top six as it stands.

Most of the team had stinkers today, which must mean something backroom.

Positives? Um.... Howard's weird beard seems to have made him a more solid keeper and we're bossing the possession stats.

Osman, Baines, Mirallas and Barkley were toothless and at times terrible. Deulofeu needs a serious talking to as his attitude stinks.

Anyone know why Distin went to speak to some fans after the game? He looked very serious.

From what he's saying sounds like frustration on his part and the part of the away support.

Hopefully that's all it was.

http://talksport.com/football/sylvain-distin-don't-twist-my-words-everton-star-explains-his-chat-fans-13110967548?

Peter Thistle, and at least Shane lost his teeth fighting. We seem to have just pulled ours out and thrown them away.

Or at least that is what everyone was saying 6 weeks ago. Why are we such a fickle bunch? The football is far better than the dross served up for the last 10 seasons and 5 failures to score and 6 clean sheets and we are all moaning.

We are not conceding, we are dominating possession and we are not getting beat. What more?

Possession is great, absolutely, but it's a statistic only for the trainspotters if there is no end product.

On the positive side though, yes, we are not conceding - thanks in large part to TH, who has consistently been the best player in the squad these past three games.

My thoughts on the derby can wait for now � except to say our lot will need to improve by 200%.

It is essential that the manager isn't satisfied by this result, even if he may appreciate some aspects of the performance. I am hoping for some criticism from RM, followed swiftly by some action to shake things up a bit.

People keep trying to brainwash the rest of us and have us believe that we are playing far better football than the football of the last 10 years. Seriously? Compare the last home game of last season against West Ham to the dross served up today. I think the last two performances are as bad as I can remember.

Phil Roberts (#102) � when did it become fact that "pass pass pass"� is better than "hoof"? And since when have we relied on hoofing it anyway? I seem to remember Everton purposely dropping long ball passes into Felliani's chest to great effect when the passing game wasn't working. Both methods can be equally effective but if one method isn't working surely it makes sense to mix it up and try something different, especially if you have the personnel to utilize it when having an asset like Lukaku?

I thought football was about winning games by putting the ball in the net not seeing who could pass it around the most and have the superior possession at the end of the game. What's the good in Barry, Jags and Distin passing it around to each other to look nice and tidy when you have a beast in Lukaku being wasted and being starved of the ball? Get the ball to Lukaku as quickly as possible as far up the pitch as possible and you will have far better chance of winning than letting the defenders pass the ball in pretty patterns wasting vital seconds that we need to win the game.

I agree, some of our players are not doing enough and I'm worried that RM is another Moyes concerning the utter shite Osman but to say we miss Fellaini!!! Ask any Man Utd fan and they'd happily drive him back here.

As for dropping 3 or 4 players, who's going to replace them, Heitinga and Hibbert? We don't have enough replacements and the injuries have decimated our club, unlike the sugar fed City and Chelski squads.

As for Mirallas, apparently he headed straight down the tunnel after being subbed, anyone know what that was about?

The loans, Barkley and Stones have been unearthed by him. This is not a finished product by any means. The loans came here because of HIM. You think Barca would trust Moyes with their young starlets?? Lololollo give the man a little credit and let's see how we're standing after this tough run coming up...

As for the loans coming here because of him, did it have nothing to do with the reports today that the baggies and Chelsea fell out over Chelsea taking one of their more promising youngsters and Fulham not quite having the money to bring him in after spending on Darren Bent even though they had first refusal, did it have nothing to do with Mirallas who has the same agent as Lukaku and convinced him to come to Everton while on international duty?

Also I'm sure it was Moyes who unearthed Barkley and Stones. It's funny, there were fans on here saying we had a brilliant team on paper but Moyes wasn't getting the best out of them and now you are saying "He's been stuck with a bad team on paper." Nothing to do with Martinez not getting the best out of the players and still making the same odd decisions as Moyes playing the likes of Osman?

Surely Martinez can see what is happening and surely he has a solution, just up his sleeve. Maybe he has a flick through toffeeweb and thinks, hmm bieno pointo, osman is shite.

For the record I do not fear the rs. We'll raise our game and batter them. I encourage everyone to echo my sentiment. No more fear please, that shit is horribly infectious- if everyone thinks it, the players feel it, the manager feels it. Sin miedo I believe is the watchword.

Lukaku looks better with Barkley on the pitch. There are better "electrics" between them. Why we don't give Delboy a start confuses me.

Defensively (particularly vs crosse for headers) we looked crap and they should have scored at least twice in the first half.

So frustratingly modern Everton!!

Lots of frustration and negativity on the message boards as usual after a poor result. I'm sure their was plenty of the same from our travelling hoards and no doubt one or two upset some of the players.

Our house was very disappointed with the result but we are delighted with the way the season is going.

We have a new manager who wants to play exciting football and is prepared to change things early in a game. He had little or no time to prepare for the transfer window and did a great job in very difficult circumstances.

We as passionate supporters can't do much about what happens in the club, much as we would all like to change things, we just have to enjoy or endure the ride.

The one thing we can do to make a bit of difference though is be positive and back the side...our fans can be the best in the premier league by a mile and the atmosphere does affect the players...no doubt...ask any of them or any player at another club.

There are three possible results at every game and of those we've only had one L this season in 11 games. We've had three clean sheets in a row and are only three points from second in the table and are playing that team next.

At the start of the season I think we would all have said ' yes I 'll take that'.

I'm there in two weeks and I think we'll win with the Old Lady rocking.

COYB

Don't get me wrong Place should be 3 points, but it was not and it's not the end of the world, start seeing the big picture.

We have had our second best start in the prem. We have a side which has lost 1 game, no team has a better record. We remain unbeaten at home for 18 months. There is no pleasing some fans, if you are not happy then you should pack your bags and form a new club with Tottenham fans, all sit and moan together. I tell you we could win the league and loss just one game and there would still be fans who would complain we didn't get something.

And those having a go at Marallis would do well to look at some stats http://espnfc.com/stats/assists/_/league/eng.1/barclays-premier-league?cc=5739

Beating Liverpool will be about having more pace in the side. If we try and match up against them, the front two will blow us away.

Against a Palace team who have lost all but one of their league games this season, I thought the team selection was far too negative and felt for Lukaku who, even though was poor, was far too isolated and couldn't get into the game. Needs to be sorted for the derby because, if not, it could be embarrassing.

Perhaps if I wish hard enough, it will not be 14 years since we last won at Anfield......

It was a pointless ploy which simply failed over & over again.

Mirallas has zero end product, and doesn't track back at all. Pienaar coms inside all the time and cannot shoot at all. Baines crossing was dreadful, and Colemand barely did anything all game.

The only defence to all of this is that Palace defended in numbers, and had at least 9 men behind the ball at all times so that made them hard to break down. We failed to draw them out enough and just kept attacking them down the flanks - we played into their hands basically. We should have stood off them at times, drawn their defence up and then got behind them.

We didn't do that once, all game. If you're going to play wide all the time, then you have to draw the defence out, otherwise you're flogging a dead horse. I could not understand why Martinez didn't spot this obvious flaw in the way we played.

For one or two, it might be a mix of a dip in form or a drop in attitude. But equally, it could simply be that their motivation has dipped because the tactics we adopt do not suit their game. I get the fact that this will all take time, but do we really write off the opportunity to do something with this team this season?

You highlight my point further - Lukaku couldn't get behind their defence because they were so deep and there was no space behind them. This was because we failed to draw them out at any stage.

That doesn't forgive the performance, no way, but we always expected a tough game.

Osman was dropped for Barkley, at first into the holding role until Barry arrived and then to the bench. But Barkley didn't do enough to convince the manager he was ready to start and was firstly subbed, Ossie came on to score one and make one, and then dropped to the bench.

As soon as Martinez thinks he is ready to start again then he will.

In leagues where teams are evenly matched, most games are close. Look at Serie A today. Hardly a goal scored and lots of drawn games. There is a dearth of world class stikers pretty much like Baseball in the eighties when the pitchers were so good the game suffered.

All over Europe, clubs have worked on their defensive tactics over the years making it harder and harder for the strikers. Look at today’s results and Chelsea’s yesterday. Teams can totally dominate the play and still only draw or lose.

That said, from where I was standing in Block S yesterday, this game was as much about the crowd as the forgettable football. It seemed to me there were at least 200 to 300 people standing in the asiles in the away corner, did they get in on counterfeit tickets or were they milling outside without tickets and allowed in to the stadium on Police orders? The stewards did nothing; it led me to wonder if Police ordered the club to allow admission as there was terrible congestion around the ground due to really bad transport delays leading to the late kick off. Either way, crowd safety was compromised in my view.

From what I could see and hear, our fans performed poorly on the day as well. The initial up-beat support seemed to subside at about 30 minutes and there were a lot of negative shouts at our own players, most notably Osman, Mirallas, and later Deulofeu. It's one of the reasons it's sometimes a bit of a chore at away games, there are some fans who just target individual players.

A win in the derby is now doubly important to get the positive juices flowing again. COYB

A good home win in two weeks and it's all in the mix... even another draw wouldn't put us far off.

I'm loving this season in the Prem.

I would also say that I had/have my doubts regarding RM but appreciate he will need time to make his mark if he is capable of doing the job successfully. I also expected us to probably be probably no higher than about 8th at this moment in time. I certainly didn't expect us to be in the top 6 within easy touching distance of the leaders.

We should all realise that there are no easy games in the Premier League, as this weekend's results have shown. Palace were unlucky in the main against Arsenal a couple of weeks ago and probably deserved a draw then.

As stated above I have doubts about RM but realise he has to be given a fair crack of the whip. If the Southampton fans had their way, their current manager would have been booted out a few weeks after replacing the popular Nigel Adkins. Do you think they would want to get rid of him now?

Me, I would sub Osman and start Oviedo, move Pienaar inside. Maybe even start Naismith on the right instead of Mirallas. Starting Oviedo and Naismith could be seen as defensive / work rate driven and not trying to go out and win the game, but if it frees up Baines and Coleman more, maybe it's the way to go. But neither will start most likely, despite the need for change - and an element of surprise being somewhat obvious. Then we'd have Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu (Osman, Jelavic) on the bench.

Hopwever ... we all know that Osman is going to start the derby game a long with what otherwise Martinez will see as his "best 11" i.e. Pienaar, Mirallas etc. Not saying I want Osman to start, but that's the reality unless he gets injured in training.

The next four games are key: come out of them with 8 points plus and we are doing well.

Well, I don't wear rose-tinted specs so if someone here could provide proof of all the trophies we won in the last 11 years, I'll believe in him too. Until then I'll get behind the EVERTON manager and not the Man Utd version. Roll on the derby and a red card for Sewer rat Suarez, hat-trick for Lukaku.