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Matty Williams
1 Posted 10/11/2013 at 22:59:31
We're playing just like Barca at the mo... but without the fucking GOALS! Sort it, Bobby, before we get battered in the derby next!
Kase Chow
2 Posted 10/11/2013 at 23:52:18
I'm certain Jelavic would score a few alongside Lukaku. Naturally we can't play two up top every game but surely for the last 25 mins against Palace we could have brought Jelavic on?

The guy still has something to offer but not as a lone striker. Give him a go alongside our loan striker and watch him go...

Phil Friedman
3 Posted 11/11/2013 at 00:47:17
We are at the point in the season where we must ask "is the glass half empty, or half full?" You know, 6 clean sheets vs all those dropped points? Conceding fewer than one goal per game (.9) or not scoring enough ourselves (1.27). Five wins and one loss vs 5 draw, most seemingly winnable on paper. Etc. Not sure I know the answers, but I am sure we will know a lot more by New Years Day.
Tim Jones
4 Posted 11/11/2013 at 01:59:33
None of this bodes well for the upcoming Derby game. But, then again, who would have given Newcastle a chance against Spurs and Sunderland against Man City on Saturday?
John Zapa
5 Posted 11/11/2013 at 06:39:03
I think Roberto has surprised a few people. Many complained last season about drawing too many games. Expectation this season was that the team would play without fear and attack every team with the intention of victory.
The hope was that although such an approach would be risky and could result in more defeats than last season, it would also result in more wins and more points overall.
Unfortunately this has not happened and the result is very similar to last season.
Derek Thomas
6 Posted 11/11/2013 at 07:14:38
Slightly, but only slightly tongue in cheek, this WAS expectation by more than a few that we WOULD attack all and sundry ' Without Fear '

KITAP1; no more

Knives to gunfights; no more

Playing not to lose, not to win; no more ( * nods to The Proclaimers )

IMO we don't need to go totally tiki-taki-tastic, aka ' fannying about at the back' we just need(ed) to change the emphisis from slightly Moyes minus to slightly Martinez positive.

At the moment the positive parts of the Moyes baby ( and there were some, eg KIT ) are being thrown out with the knife to gunfight-esque Moyes bathwater.

Now, as we have found, we couldn't keep OFM ( and I for one am glad, 2 words to say to you Moyesey baby.... Wilf McGuiness * ends mini rant ) so if all we are going to do is exchange one poorish plan A that gets you a single digit finish ( but not the big money places ... yes yes I know 04-05 ) for another, at the moment, seemingly poorish Plan A that gets you a single digit etc etc

And don't get me wrong I prefer a footy base methodology.

What's it all in aid of is all we do is stay where we are, the mostly, best of the rest

Bobby; OFM was inflexible, don't you go just as inflexible, but in a different direction

There's more than one way to skin a cat... AND win games...Mix it up, vary it, don't do a scottish manager.

Pick a formation and method that suits what you HAVE NOW, not try to force the Sq pegged new Capt Pip ( and others ) into round Beckenbaur shaped holes ...( Moyesism writ large ) change what you have now as best and as quick as you can, cash allowing.

* Ends what turned into a large rant.

Robbie Shields
7 Posted 11/11/2013 at 08:17:37
I'm a big fan of Roberto and his ideals, but it's got to be said I think he's fooked up royally the last 2 games simply (IMHO) by picking Osman ahead of Barkley. Now, I'm not a big Osman fan, but, he showed a couple of weeks ago that he can do an effective job from off the bench, but for the love of God not from the start of any match.

Without Barkley we simply have no ideas going forward, he is our creative genius and needs to be on whenever fit.

Harold Matthews
8 Posted 11/11/2013 at 13:05:23
Not sure it's about who plays when and where. City, with a team of superstars, were beaten because they played an exact copy of our new system. Sideways in their own half, very slow buildup and no ideas up front. Ya Ya played the McCarthy role and never got forward and Sunderland had no trouble getting 8 men behind the ball throughout.

The missing key was Silva. They need him. We need someone like him.

Jackie Barry
9 Posted 11/11/2013 at 13:40:36
The funny thing is a look at the league table and read of some of the comments coming from the likes of Man U, Tottenham and Chelsea fans will tell you that they are all asking questions of their managers and teams players right now. There is a lot of unhappiness all around so we are by no means the only ones.
Tony J Williams
10 Posted 11/11/2013 at 13:48:18
Jackie, I was thinking that the table must be a lot worse off than last year because everyone seems to have been getting beat but the leaders only have 2 points less than at the same point last season.

What was interesting is that we have has the exact same record as last season, 5 wins, 5 draws and 1 defeat. Comparable goals too, last year For 21 - Against 14 - this year For 14 - Against 10.

7 goals fewer but 4 less conceded. - +7 to +4.

What's most notable is the number of games Citteh have lost already. It is a strange season so far but it seems like the same old same old for us.....just with less goals

Trevor Lynes
11 Posted 11/11/2013 at 14:10:46
Fans talk about starting Barkley instead of Osman, but when that happened Barkley tired so Osman came on and basically helped to win the game. So Osman starts and fails so Barkley comes on for a 30-minute cameo and seems livelier! It seems that those are the only options we have on the left-hand side.

Now on the right-hand side, we take off Mirallas and bring on Deulofeu if chasing the game, or perhaps Naismith if a bit more defensive steel is needed. Those substitutions are all we have in midfield... correct me if I am wrong!

Centre-backs are covered by Heitinga and Stones and everyone knows that Heitinga is a liability. Alcaraz and Gibson are out injured as is Kone. The players we have bought in the last window apart from McCarthy are out injured.

The players we have brought in on loan are all fit and playing in the first team squad. Soon it will be January, our season is in the hands of our miserly boardroom who carefully control the purse strings. I just hope (and pray) that money is made available to Señor Martinez without having to sell Baines and that, if Baines is sold, that the money made on the sale is ADDED to the money already saved during the last transfer window and made available to Martinez to strengthen the squad. Martinez has not really been able to stamp his authority on the squad so far.

Keith Young
12 Posted 11/11/2013 at 14:27:23
We had the worst of all worlds what with McCarthy chosen to play in our supposedly strongest team to assure 3 points (risking his availability for the Reds match) and only playing one up front (unfed). McCarthy was less effective, our striker was starved so no goals.

By a whisker, McCarthy avoided a booking in the dying seconds and we luckily got a point. Like OFM, RM set us up not to lose — is that a new era? With two strikers up front playing, Osman could have been our poor man's Silva — as per Harold's observation of what was missing.

Declan Brown
13 Posted 11/11/2013 at 18:18:00
Quite concerning this, all the possession but nothing to show for it. Looks great stats wise, but it's not effective. Don't get me wrong, I like Martinez, I love his positivity but 70% possession means nothing to me if we can only create 2 chances on goal against the bottom of the league team.

If 72% of possession is about Howard, Jags and Distan playing it about at the back, then i'm a heart attack waiting to happen. I could do without watching that, they're more like dogs of war than school of science (which I think Martinez will try to get us going towards).

I look at Southampton (this seasons next big thing and maybe next seasons WBA) with envy, they have got it right, pace at the back which allows a high pressing game, tight at the back and effective up front, they're a good team to watch. It's almost like watching the best of "The Dogs of War" meets "The School of Science" and to me that's a perfect combination. Great to watch going forward, direct when needed and no nonsense at the back and in midfield when we don't have the ball.

Never liked the Derby's, dreaded them at the best of times (except for The Dogs of War era). If we go toe to toe with Liverpool and play their game we'll be battered.

Still not impressed that the Goodison Derby is a mid morning match and the Anfield Derby is a night game, getting that lot under the lights on a pumping night game at Goodison, I miss those days.

Worried about this upcoming Derby. We've gone very soft in them over the last decade, I have fond memories of the pressing / tackling game so effective in the Derby for us. Win your individuals first, don't give an inch and take your chances when they come. Sounds too easy doesn't it?

We have to get the mix correct, no nonsense at the back, ultra competitive in midfield without the ball, but comfortable going forward with it, if you're going to have 70% of possession I would expect goals and loads of chances. As I said, it's easy on paper...

Ian Bennett
14 Posted 11/11/2013 at 22:29:20
Feel sorry for the folk that made the trip. 2 shots on target is fairly appalling when apparently we had them on the rack. What was the reasoning for not using the third sub?
Rahman Talib
15 Posted 12/11/2013 at 03:58:09
I think RM should've subbed Jamie Mac for Barkeley. Not because JM wasn't playing well but because having two defensive midfielders is not suitable against a team that parks the bus like what Palace did. We needed an extra man in the final third to make a difference.
Ian Burns
17 Posted 12/11/2013 at 11:12:38
Good article Lyndon, summed it up perfectly - frustration is the key word right now. Great post Declan - rounds off Lyndon's OP perfectly.

Frustration playing Mirallas out wide when he would be far more effective playing off Lulu through the middle.

Build up play is so slow - everybody on TW says the same thing - hence the word frustration spilling over everything we post.

I like RM and I hope his vision is to get the basics right then speed up the whole process whilst adding a little more creativity in midfield.

However, what worries me is that we can all see what is wrong, yet RM "appears" to be missing the point. The derby will tell us all we need to know!

Tony J Williams
18 Posted 12/11/2013 at 12:08:26
What was the phrase used last season? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different outcome.

Seems that the more things change, the more they stay the same.

Players aren't doing what they're supposed to do. One moment in the second half, all Pienaar had to do was a simple two yard lay off, but he put it behind the player who then didn't have the time to shoot.

Simple things like that are what's wrong with the team. Hopefully it will click and we will go on a scoring spree....I doubt it because the defenders at the minute are just trotting back and waiting for us to get to our own half way line.

Max Wilson
19 Posted 12/11/2013 at 16:15:49
What is going wrong has already been identified loads of times — we are not getting into the final third fast enough. The opposition is being given time to block us out. That's why Lukaku gets hardly any service, Baines and Coleman have nothing to run with, and there's no panic being created. "Tappy tappy" and "it's my ball so there" are great in the park if you do them quickly and then someone kicks the ball between the two coats.
Barry Rathbone
20 Posted 12/11/2013 at 22:01:24
Mixed views about the "derby" because we're normally shite no matter the teams comparative strengths (we are weakest this time round) but the answers about our players will be nailed once and for all.

Senior pros in part are struggling (or going through the motions) and RM is accommodating them. Very cordial an' all that and being in a new club I can see RMs strategy but lukewarm rictus smiling betwixt gentlemen has to stop.

It's time for raging flame thrower with threat and desire in every step and if that upsets a few comfortable long termers so be it. Players incapable of getting their act together for a derby aren't good enough.

This is not to say we MUST win if they play at full pelt I think they are too strong but regardless of the result we need a marker laid down of who is capable and on board and who needs to drift around somewhere else.

Trevor Lynes
21 Posted 12/11/2013 at 22:57:29
Robbie #511...I think you are using the word Genius as easily as the yanks use 'Awesome'.

Barkley is miles away from being a midfield genius, he has potential but he certainly is not the finished article.

Harold Matthews
22 Posted 12/11/2013 at 23:12:21
Barry. Smack on. We'll need you in the changing room before kick-off.
Jimmy Sørheim
23 Posted 13/11/2013 at 14:23:41
I think there is a thing of being too nice to the players. So far I miss that angry intensity from Moyes, because Martinez is too positive and I think it makes the players bored long term. I think they need a leader more then ever, not a smiley face every time, but a serious hard ass who can smack them into shape again. I feared this with RM before we got him which was why I wanted someone better.

I think RM has to learn to be ruthless too, I don't think he can always praise each shitty performance like he did against CP.

I think the last three games or so show a decline in effort put in by the players going forward. If the players are not pushed every step of the way, I think they will fall back on auto-pilot, which is where I think we are in right now.

Sadly for me, Neville is gone, and I don't think Barry has stepped up enough to run our midfield.

I think all the players are on auto-pilot until something drastic happens, like going under by a goal. If they can keep a clean sheet then I think the players will justify their own performance, at least in their own minds.

I think the effort and energy needs to be raised a lot higher then our recent performances.

Paul Tran
24 Posted 14/11/2013 at 21:01:58
So when you go to work Jimmy, do you prefer your boss all sullen and bollocking you, giving you no praise, or do you prefer him to be positive?

Do any of us have any idea what Moyes did and Martinez does behind the scenes?

Did that 'angry intensity' work on all those strikers over the years? Did it work when the players choked against Liverpool and Wigan in the FA Cup? Wasn't it the 'ruthless' manager that kept the same side last season, even when we could all see players losing form and fitness? Didn't I hear the 'ruthless' manager say last Saturday that his champions need time to settle into his methods?

If you have a problem with people being positive about their staff in public, I suggest it says more about you than anyone else.

Ross Edwards
25 Posted 14/11/2013 at 21:23:17
Jimmy, Moyes's ruthlessness was very successful wasn't it? The man who "wanted to get out of Old Trafford alive" in his words.
Ross Edwards
26 Posted 14/11/2013 at 21:26:58
Paul, Jimmy is a self confessed wind up. He said so himself a few weeks ago on this site. I wouldn't pay too much attention to his inane ramblings.
Jim Harrison
27 Posted 15/11/2013 at 00:26:31
Even if Jimmy is on the wind up he has a bit of a point. Not regarding the management (I remember him slating Moyes on a regular basis!!) but regards a driving force on the pitch. Players like Cahill, Jonny, Neville all gave it tonnes. Now I am not suggesting a Timmy Cahill come back or drafting Neville in for one last hurrah (I would take Jonny of 2 seasons back though) but merely observing that we could do with a big personality on the pitch. Jags is a good pro, does his job well. Barry is the same, a tidy experienced player who has brought great composure to the middle of the pitch, but there is no general pushing the team on. No one giving a bollocking for misplaced passes or cheap concession of possession.

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