Blues beaten handily by Celta Vigo

What is the latest with Kone? How bad can a hamstring injury be? Brian baby will be back before him and I've known cruciate injuries heal quicker. Besic looks a player and I'm looking forward to seeing him and does anybody know if Rom will be involved at all tonight?

As we are constantly told, getting the winning mentality is as important as gaining match fitness in these pre-season games. So tonight it would be nice to see a more familiar side with more intensity and a win.

I have no problem with Stones for Jags, I can see a case for Naismith based on form at end of last season and his finishing and I'll even buy the idea of giving McGeady another chance to prove that the last 5-10 minutes were more representative of what he'll deliver than the preceding period.

But why the hell we have Osman on the pitch when Mirallas, Pienaar, Lukaku and Besic aren't does slightly concern and confuse me.

Also, where's he playing? Wide left? In place of Barkley behind Naismith? Sorry I just don't get it.

Wiziwig.com Live sport.

then choose a stream. Don't choose a betting site as you will have to register. Try others and you will find one that fits.

Nolito, could be one to keep an eye out for, he is 27 by all accounts, and is capable of, not only being a playmaking attacker, but can get a few goals as well !

It could be journo crap but, you never know!

NFL are doing it.

Everton 1-up: McGeady.

McGeady looks good, Barry great and Macca and Barkley promising.

Still not sure why Osman is on the pitch mind. He's not providing anything on the left hand side and his presence there robs all width/attacking options.

http://footballhd.me/stream2.html

Graham Stuart commentating.

Then I put the boy to bed and now we're 3-1 down. WTF?

Lulling Leicester into a false sense of security?

This was a common trait last season which he really needs to sort out urgently: it's quite obvious.

Hope you get it right, Roberto, for game 1.

Maybe it's because we're not sharp enough, don't have the balance, I'm not sure, but something feels different. Last season we bossed possession and the problem was getting the final ball, in pre-season we've been restricted to counter-attacks and passing has been more Moyes-era.

But have no fear, Roberto will get it right by the Leicester game!!!

People will argue that the team we had last season finished with a great win tally and points total which yes of course it did, but this is a totally new challenge facing us now. We have many more games to play and we knew last season when we were light at times that we could look a bit predictable and easy to play against.

We had that great 7 match winning run in Spring but the last few games we looked jaded again and the games against Palace and Southampton were especially poor.

There is no doubt that if we don't get off to a good start at Leicester it could prove a potentially troublesome early few months for us with games against Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United all in the first 7 matches.

Osman isn't being harshly laid into either as Mark Dunford might think, just because his testimonial was the other day doesn't mean you can't then play a shocker!

I'm not laying into Osman as such, I think he's been a fine servant for Everton over the years and still has a role to play as a squad member.

However that role in 14-15 as indeed in 13-14 should be primarily coming on from the bench or as cover in less important games against lower opposition.

He's just not mobile or quick enough to play 90 minutes at the top level and to be frank has been a liability in this game (not just misplaced passes but the fact he's supposed to be wide on the left without any ability to run the flanks). I thought he was a total passenger in the Porto game also and his contribution to most matches last season was similarly limited.

I'm not saying he's the only one having a bad game, but I just don't see what he's able to offer that will change the game. I'm sure he's trying hard and his commitment and nascent ability aren't in question, the fact he's starting the match (and starting in a left-midfield berth) is what I'm bemoaning.

Burnley 2-2 Celta Vigo: Lukas Jutkiewicz scores twice in friendly

Burnley were held to a 2-2 draw by Celta Vigo in a pre-season friendly at Turf Moor.

Lukas Jutkiewicz, who moved from Middlesbrough for £1.5m during the summer, grabbed both goals for the Clarets.

The 25-year-old opened the scoring after just two minutes, and put Burnley ahead again after Alex Lopez had equalised for the Spanish side.

Nolito scored soon after to level the scores with the newly-promoted team.

Burnley: Heaton, Trippier (O'Neill 84), Duff, Shackell, Mee, Wallace, Marney (Taylor 67), Jones, Arfield, Barnes (Reid 79), Jutkiewicz (Sordell 79).
Subs: Cisak, Long, Anderson, Lafferty, O'Neill, Kightly, Hewitt, Gilchrist.

Celta Vigo: Ruben - Hugo Mallo (Jonny 46), Sergi Gomez (Cabral 46), Costas (Fontas 46), Samuel (Planas 46) - Madinda (Krohn-Dehli 46), Goldar (Borja Fernandez 46), Yelko (Álex Lopez 46) - Santi Mina (Orellana 46), Larrivey (Charles 46), Jordan (Nolito 46).

Still time, I know, but the lack of progression concerns me. We are going to be a target for EVERYBODY. Second and third tier teams are going to see us a big scalp to be had, and the title chasers will be gunning to (as they see it) put us back in our place where they think we belong. I hope Roberto is dishing out a good David Mamet play at half-time.

Colin (#63), Nolito is running us ragged, Hibbert and Stones getting done well and truly.

It's not new, it's been going on as long as I can remember, when British players are up against continentals, their skill levels are superior to us,

The Porto game was another example, blame fitness if you want but that's not the reason in my opinion.

That was bad. Nothing up front. Nothing on the left. Nothing on the right. Defence all over the place. We look unfit. Clueless. Half our teams missing.

I hope Seamus is fit for Leicester. Everything stops as soon as the ball goes to Hibbo. It's ridiculous how bad he is going forward.

I hope I'm wrong and we'll peek at the right time but it doesn't look right to me.

I keep saying it, Osman can not be our playmaker again this season, his pass completion rate can’t be over 50 percent?

Roberto has treated all these games as half-paced training sessions. But he must have a plan......or does he?

The worst set of pre-season games I can remember. Usually it shows in the real games.

It is worrying that Lundstram went on loan today when he could have contributed tonight – it is only a year since we had 5 players in the U20 England squad. Barkley has come through and Garbutt appears to be on the verge. We have just paid a fortune for a player who is little older than most of those from the U20 squad.

I accept that people develop at different rates but we need numbers this year and the squad has to be strengthened for this reason. I'd expect a couple more loan signings at least.

This isn't really an important fixture so don't lose perspective.

Losing matches matters, not winning matches matters, it's totally unprofessional. The build up to the coming season has been nothing short of abysmal.

Martinez, get your finger out and put things right or your past will come back to haunt us.

Also you say Osman is just a squad player, yet a squad player who featured in every single league game last year, so clearly an important squad player.

However, I was critical of our performance against Porto as they passed us out of the game, especially in the first half and I posted my disappointment on TW as such.

I read your post-Porto game comments and wasn't convinced but, having been a great admirer of yours during your first season at our club, I was persuaded to believe what you were saying.

However, tonight you have me worried. That performance was garbage and the fact you are talking of taking positives from the game might wash with the vast majority of Evertonians but it doesn't wash with me.

You spent the summer with ESPN, enjoying the World Cup when it is now obvious you should have been preparing for a pre-season to give us the best opportunity of making the most of an excellent first season in charge of our club.

Your spin on two worrying performances no longer washes, at least with me, and I advise you to quickly get your arse into gear and start worrying about our first game against Leicester because they must be counting on 3 points already having watched your very questionable preparations to date.

I can't believe I am writing this post... these past two games may "just be friendlies" but they are serious pre-season indicators and they are indicating disaster, Mr Martinez, unless you pull finger out and realise you are the boss of the greatest club in the world and it needs your full and undivided attention.

As Ian alludes to - I prefer honesty to spin although I don't put the blame on what Roberto did in the summer re working for ESPN - but I do feel that all is not right at Goodison at the moment and unfortunately we only have the games which we watch to judge how things are going. Dig a little deeper, Mr Kenwright, and if you don't feel that money is the issue ask some pertinent questions of your manager to find out what is occurring because losing is acceptable but losing without any hint of a pattern of play and ad-hoc systems cannot in all honesty be the best way to prepare for what will be a challenging start to the upcoming campaign.

Thankful I didn't watch any of that. Sounds like the Samaritans are in for a busy night though!

Half a first team, players blatantly protecting themselves, anyone knowing football could see we were trying things... splitting midfield formation, two-touch switch passing, inside left/right running (which I assume is plan B for Seamus being unfit).

After last season, with the players we have to come in and Roberto actually knowing what he is doing, I am not worried in the slightest.

Really sick of the kneejerk negative Knobjockeys on here I really am.

May I make a suggestion? Take a deep breath. Do you really think an unimportant friendly on a Wednesday night in August portends how the rest of the year's going to go? Seriously?

Have you any idea how long our year is going to be? And you want Lukaku, Mirallas, and others who have had 3½ weeks of rest to play in this match? You want Baines to go full tilt? Really.

Calm down. Have some perspective.

Rom, Mirallas, Jags and Pienaar all missing/rested with only ten days to go to the big kick off. Seamus out injured, no sign of Kone and Gibson nowhere near fit either.

I must say men I’m a worried fan. We need to be hitting the ground running first game of the season with 3 points against a promoted team, then we’ve got to try an take 3 points from either of the two next fixtures if we want to start brightly. If not, we will have the distraction of the Europa League games creeping up quickly and it can all become a bit of a burden.

This has happened to most teams in the EPL over the recent seasons, especially the ones with the smaller squads (us!!). Not exactly what can be done in ten days but couldn’t see any bright points from today’s outing.

Oh that Nolito looked good, hope Bobby can steal him.

They would be playing this game on the back of gruelling training sessions. Come the real thing, they'll be tapering their training to suit match days.

I'm not even the slightest bit concerned. Pre-season results mean nothing.

If pre-season games are to be treated as wholly fitness exercises, then perhaps the club should play them behind closed doors and stop taking money off fans under false pretences. For non-season ticket holders, the upcoming games against Arsenal and Chelsea will cost people around £90, so I hope the team are at least able to play some football in those games, even if they don't manage to win them.

I think the pre-season has been a joke. Last season, we were in the USA playing against top teams; now we get second rate teams and we struggle against them.

I have no idea what Roberto has planned (if anything). But God help us if we start the season with a weakened team with the fixtures we have.

Lukaku and Mirallas will play the German crew this weekend ... followed by a week of proper training and we'll be ready for Leicester ... keep it in perspective ToffeeWebbers!!

Mark Dunford 40: ’Amazing to see someone laying boot into Osman a few days after his deserved testimonial.’

’Deserved testimonial’ I agree, but Jaysus he was terrible in that game and also awful in this one and too right he deserves to be criticized.

FACT: Osman will start on the 16th.

But he should not. And testimonial or no testimonial and frankly I don’t give a damn – a testimonial is about the past not the present or future – he is (1) not above criticism 96 hours later and (2) should not be in the starting 11 on the 16th.

Osman has been a great servant. He has done some wonderful things for us. There have been moments of sheer delight watching Ossie. But, note, this is all past tense, and he is not quality enough to be in a 2014-15 top-4 challenging team.

Good to see Gibson looking fitter than I've ever seen him. Touch wood, he could have a decent season, but unlike Barry, he is not an anchor. He sits middle of the pitch and pushes forward.

Besic again showed his quality but someone has to warn him about his lunging tackles or he'll end up with more yellows than Fellaini. Our other quality lad was Barkley who has probably improved his allround game. Something I noticed in the World Cup.

Ossie and Hibbo didn't fare too well but the display of Tylas Browning was a surprise bonus. Less overawed than last time, he looks to have a future.

If you have been watching since the 50's then you should know better than to post that sort of garbage. An embarrassingly childish reaction from a man of your age.

They weren't selling this as a massive game or one where the players would be well prepared and raring to go.

It's like a advertising a turd for 20 quid and then getting complaints that people received a turd.

Besic looked quality. Browning also looks a player

There is no denying that there is growing voice of concern over our pre-season prepartion and with some justification over various forums. If we compare our pre-season preparations with that shower down the M62 and see how quickly Van Gaal has pulled them together, we look fairly pitiful and we finished ahead of them last season.

One thing for sure is that we will all be earnestly awaiting that first game of the season and be fully behind our beloved, much respected team and its manager.

Me - I've taken 150/1 to win the league., couldn't believe the odds. I'll cover it iwth some shorter odds bets for Top 4, cup etc.

We're in a totally different position. Let's discuss what's right and wrong after 6 games and be judged after 38 league games. Meaningful ones that is.

Yes it's a travesty to see that two-bit shower than Van Gaal has been passed in a plastic bag are winning all the pre season glory while we stare some kind of moral relegation after these two games.

I would have liked to see Lukaku out there... but I believe in Roberto and would sooner this than a blistering preseason only for a terrible start to the season good and proper which I remember a few times under Man U's previous manager.

Calm down, lads, not ideal Sunday, or last night. The real business starts next week

Now it is true that many players are still missing and have only just returned from post World Cup holidays but the season starts in just over a weeks time so if they are not fit now will they be then.

Also pre season friendlies are meant to give the Manager ideas on how his team is progressing and what his League line-up will be. So far I am sure that I do not have a clue what his First Team will be but I hope HE does. If the pre season games are anything to go by, we have NO strength in depth whatsoever.

Last season Martinez needed to come in and make an immediate positive impression if his managerial reign wasn't going to be dogged from the off by the 'he got Wigan relegated' brigade. He achieved that, but did going out to win games and impress the fans end up costing us points in the season? Impossible to tell, but it all goes to show that an impressive pre-season doesn't equal a great start to the season.

After the last campaign I'm more than willing to give Martinez the benefit of the doubt over his pre-season preparations. No doubt it is disappointing to watch our beloved team lose and be outplayed, but this is a preparatory match, the result of which gains us nothing meaningful. There is clearly a method to what he is doing, leaving out Mirallas and Lukaku. He has obviously assessed their fitness after the World Cup and deemed the rest more important than winning against Celta Vigo to appease the fans.

I would also bear in mind that we are likely to get a couple more players in before deadline day to boost the squad and our attacking options. Yes last night was disappointing, but the OTT reactions, though understandable as loyal Evertonians, are still a little short sighted.

Of course, it was just a pre-season warm-up but some of us paid good money to watch that shite, so don't take us for idiots.

The crap this bloke talks upsets me more than what his team's have displayed this summer.

It's good though; a team needs at least one badass.

[New Blue here; just thought I'd lighten the mood a little bit.]

Oh...

Next week will be more of the same: we win – we’re the School of Science, best team in the world; we lose – it’s all doom and gloom. Do what I have done: get a smart TV and watch crap. Haha!!!

For fuck sake, we have spent all summer whinging about the lack of squad depth. Martinez is trying to get the squad players fit so we can compete on all fronts cme the season proper and we're giving him stick. Would you rather see theses performances in a competitive fixture?

There shouldnt be so much worry. We've watched some of these players for years. You know Jags Distin Baines and Coleman will form one of the best defenses in the league. We know McCarthy Barry and Barkley are a solid midfield. We know Mirallas and Lukaku will score the goals. Stop worrying about a few games with the fringe players out.

Last season we saw a passage of 7 games in s row won with brilliant football that was then followed by being battered at home by Crystal Palace. This team can play very very badly when its not working. But when it is working, which is most of the time, theyre one of the best sides in the league.

However, this disappointment should not be converted into knee-jerk predictions of doom and disaster. Had we played our strongest eleven with the instructions to win at all costs we may have had a happier outcome, but Martinez is clearly playing the long game here. Lukaku and Mirallas have both spent their summer hold training and playing in a World Cup and Martinez obviously feels that they are match ready but in need of rest.

As I said many a time this time last year, have a little faith in Roberto to get it right when it matters!

I recall last pre-season, we played OK in the ICC tourney, but still lost two and drew 1 (winning on pens.)

We lost away in Austria, the won away at Accrington and Blackburn, before winning against Real Betis in the only Goodison game. But we were absolutely gash in that game, and how Betis didn't twat us off the park only they know - oh, it was a pre-season friendly.

There is absolutely no link between pre-season friendlies and how we will start the season proper. The only real objective is to avoid un-necessary injury - and on that note, who was that goon of a ref last night? We nearly lost McCarthy for the season, and another player took out Browning - and I don't mean for a pizza.

I've no respect for a manager that openly criticizes his players to the media. Any criticism should be internalized within the club. Anything less and you run the risk of "losing the dressing room".

With RM, I think you have to read between the lines, although I've got to admit the "giving away 2 goals", line is a bit of a head scratcher. I'm going to use the "english as a second language" excuse on that one, 'cause it don't make no sense.

I very much doubt Roberto will lose any sleep over the result, and why should he.
We were changing formations throughout the game, and it was a good run-out for the likes of Browning, Duffy and Besic. Barkley got 90 minutes under his belt, which would have helped him no end, as did several other players.
As James said, we know the quality and consisteny that the likes of Baines, Jags, Distin, Barry and McCarthy bring. Barkley, Miralles and Lukaku will score goals. I
Pre-season results have not been good, granted, but that will have zero bearing on August 16. My biggest concern is that we have the numbers, but past our first playing eleven; there’s still a question mark about our depth of quality in the squad. No wonder the players seemed hesitant to go in for challenges in pre-season. Injuries to key players will be the un-doing of us.

What's wrong with you all? It's fucking pre-season. Warm-up games. Run around a bit and get used to a higher intensity than you would on the training pitch.

Last week everyone was going berserk because a player had signed an extension to a contract, now it's lemming season when we look lethargic in a warm-up game at Tranmere's fucking hovel.

I'm off these boards until the first six games have passed. Let's hope some semblance of sanity has returned by then.

You've all gone radio rental!

“we really should have been 3 or 4 down at half-time. Okay, the players were probably tired. But this was a worrying performance”

“it’s gonna be a long season, I think”

“I was nervous, now I’m really scared.”

“I think I am being pragmatic here but I expect no more than 7th - 10th”

“We didn’t play with any level of intensity, it was a Sunday Arvo stroll on the park”

“this could have been embarrassing. Back four uncomfortable, midfield virtually non-existant in any shape, three passes and then lump up the middle that was when we did not give the ball away.”

I should add that all these opinions were expressed on TW after the Betis game last year, a week before we kicked off against Norwich to begin our most successful PL season to date.

Sorry but I do think some are overreacting and giving these pre-season games/results far too much importance.

These games are about looking at players, fitness, match-fitness and the results are meaningless.

Much better imo to look bad now and be able to fix things, rather than to stroll through pre-season beating everyone 5-0, only to discover the PL is a lot different.

Up the Toffees!

“we really should have been 3 or 4 down at half-time. Okay, the players were probably tired. But this was a worrying performance”

“it’s gonna be a long season, I think”

“I was nervous, now I’m really scared.”

“I think I am being pragmatic here but I expect no more than 7th - 10th”

“We didn’t play with any level of intensity, it was a Sunday Arvo stroll on the park”

“this could have been embarrassing. Back four uncomfortable, midfield virtually non-existant in any shape, three passes and then lump up the middle that was when we did not give the ball away.”

I should add that all these opinions were expressed on TW after the Betis game last year, a week before we kicked off against Norwich to begin our most successful PL season to date.

Sorry but I do think some are overreacting and giving these pre-season games/results far too much importance.

These games are about looking at players, fitness, match-fitness and the results are meaningless.

Much better imo to look bad now and be able to fix things, rather than to stroll through pre-season beating everyone 5-0, only to discover the PL is a lot different.

Up the Toffees!

If you look at every team and their friendlies since the World Cup finished, other than Man Utd, they have all struggled in some games. Chelsea lost 3-0 to Werder Bremen on Sunday, a mid-table German side, Liverpool lost to Brondby and scraped a draw with Preston.

One of the issues of a World Cup year that affects teams is tiredness.

Calm down everyone. We will be fine.Trust me. Oh, and incidentally, the world won’t end for another few thousand years yet so we’re fine there.

I guess this is tough to measure until you go up against the other sides when things get going for real, so fingers crossed, eh?

Roberto looked worried for the first time on the touchline, because for me the main cause of his concern was our worrying lack of ball control, bloody hell surely its the essential aspect when young players are being coached.
Besic didn't look out of place though did he.
The Prem. will be a different ball game on the whole, although 'the money clubs' will be stuffed with foreign players, I wonder why!

I think we will have a decent season almost on par with last year, but I do think we need a couple of decent foreign players so we can hold onto the ball a lot better.

It's true that there is seldom a relationship between pre-season and actual season and we should never read too much into the outcomes. However, to write them off as training park/fitness exercise that don't matter would be a mistake. The teams we have played didn't seem to treat the games in tis way - were they wrong? Other teams have been quicker and more effective in re-integrating players coming back from world cup duty. Games tell you things.

The last two teams played a similar game against us - pressed high up the pitch and disrupted our pass from the back game (which was poor anyway). Other teams will do this during the season if thy have any sense.

Squad depth - we don't have it compared to other top sides playing in European competitions. This is the same team plus Besic - no youngsters have made a definitive claim, though Browning and Garbutt look like they may do so. Other 'squad' players such as McGeady, Osman have looked weak. In the absence of Kone (any sightings?) we have no effective back up to Lukaku.

The comments on the game last night appear unduly negative in part because TW crashed just as we were beginning to improve. After a shambolic first 10 minutes of the second half we actually played much better, with Gibson, Besic and Barkley impressing. Besic was excellent in both games despite playing higher up the pitch than I presume his intended role. I will be disappointed if he doesn't start against Leicester as I think he really adds another dimension of drive and skill.

Oh, I forgot. Kone is waiting in the wings to return......sometime before the end of the season.

IRWT......for now.

Of course it doesn't really matter but it does have an effect plus I never watching Everton play badly whatever the context.

On the plus side we did look better in the last 35 mins. Besic and Barkley were good though the former will pick up a red card at some point this season. I thought Mcgeady looked much better with some intelligent passes and also Duffy and Browning both looked solid.

We definitely need another 2 players in my opinion, a winger and a striker (especially given Kones absence).

The results are meaningless because you won't see a player busting a gut to stop a poor pass from going out.

You won't press as much and you certainly won't go into a heavy tackle with no regard for the outcome.

So many little things that would be different in a competitive match means that a pre-season friendly will be just that, a friendly.

As Eugene has shown above, last season we were gash in pre-season then went on to gain our highest points tally in the Premier League era.

I feel sorry for the fans who paid to watch that, but what did they honestly expect to happen?

That's why I don't go to pre-season games. Last one I went to was the Everton v Everton one because I know it won't be a good game to view

Second half was better and Besic looks a prospect if he can control himself. I think pre-season does matter in terms of getting fitness, confidence and systems sorted, last night we didn't seem to have any of these resolved. I like Martinez's positivity but he could help himself occasionally by not sugar coating everything.

Let's hope for the return of Coleman, Ovideo and Garbutt quickly or at least one for the start of the season. We looked poor in that area.

There is no right or wrong, we each tell it as we see it. Some see the positives and others - like me - tend to expect the worst. A third group just buys into all the spin that emanates from the club via Manager, Chairman et al.

Whichever group we belong to, we shall all be hoping for a good start to the new season. Say 5 points from first three games ?

The fitness and stamina levels are worked on in hours and hours of intense training, covering every possible aspect of fitness that you can think of. Pre-season matches are there to obtain match fitness which is a completely different thing. What kind of fitness did Tim Howard gain from standing in goal for 90 minutes? Absolutely none, because fitness is not the purpose.

The purpose of these matches are to put players into competitive environments, to gradually build up their match sharpness, reactions to situations and decision making. It is to see how they perform so their training can be modified accordingly depending on the performance. The intention is to not put you into the full physical situation of a PL match, but to bring you closer to that level so when you do play the 1st match, you hit the ground running. The scoreline in in pre-season friendlies means absolutely nothing, but the player performances mean everything. This is why you hear players like McGeady criticising his pre-season performances, as they know they are far off the level of sharpness needed to play competitive PL games. Players themselves know when they are playing well, and equally when they play poorly. I am certain not many players will have got much confidence form last night, with exception to Besic who really looks ready and chomping at the bit. He will have to calm down a bit if anything though, as experienced players will see him as someone they can easily wind up and he will get sent off.

The winning mentality is just as important as match fitness. No doubt about it, Roberto offensively is an excellent coach, but he inherited our current back four adding only Alcaraz. (Enough said?)

It doesn’t matter what system, team or stage of the season you’re at, we should not be shipping 3 goals in a half!! If you see the same things happening on the pitch that undid us last season, then it’s fair to say they’re not being worked on during training. The intensity is not there yet. Fair enough, it’s pre-season but our opening game is days away; no point having this "it will be alright on the night" attitude, when it’s plain to see we are way off the pace with very little or any quality play...

Can we just click into gear at Leicester?? Most of the comments on here seem to think so; I’m not so sure!

Off subject: Mirallas?? He was a sub for most of the World Cup – is there really a need to miss all of pre-season??

That said, some of the criticisms re. world cup players are ill informed. Plenty of teams have given extended period of rests to players participating in the later stages of the World Cup. Arsenal will not have Ozil, Mert and Podolski back in training until after the Community shield and they will miss their first match. City's Argentinian contingent along with Kompany did not starting training till this Monday. Van Persie is missing the start of the season. We are not later or earlier in this respect than other teams. Some managers call back players earlier and some players later. Personally, I think giving a player with some injury problems in the past (Mirallas) and a 21 year old a decent level of rest after a full season with a world cup campaign is more than sensible (And a legal obligation I believe - because of the 4 week minimum holiday rule for players across a season).

Pre-season does not a great deal of relevance, but it does have some. This is our team playing, our players, and a representative level of sharpness and preparation. We are competitive team, and that competitiveness cannot be properly captured in a friendly. But, that said, we look a little off the pace at the moment. We must improve quickly or we will drop significant points in August again, just as did last season.

Do you think Brenda and Maureen are the slightest bit concerned about their teams come the opening day of the season?

Full match sharpness can only really come when playing competitive matches. These fellas are professionals and some if not all have been playing for a decade/decades so they will be fully aware of the difference between a friendly and a blood and guts premier game

Do you think that RM really gives a toss about the score line? The EPL is the most watched league on the planet because it guarantees entertainment and is contested with a probability that any one of about 6 teams could win this year's title. There are always late goals, even when EPL teams are 3 nil up they still want more goals. Tackles, I mean tackles that would see red cards in most leagues get the "play on" wave from the EPL man in black and blocks that would leave most of us in hospital go on almost unnoticed with the player returning to his feet. But all these games come with high casualties, so you need a fully, one hundred percent fit, squad.

The biggest reaction from RM last night was when McCarthy got hit late and two footed, you could feel RM's anger. For me RM wants his team fit and whatever the score line its almost irrelevant. Do you really think that Leicester will break through this Everton team with the same ease that Vigo did? Please!!!!

Paul Ferry. Your Osman post - whilst you feel sure it's a fact he will start I'm willing to bet £10, no fuck it, £20 of beer tokens that Osman will not make the first 11 against Leicester. This is not Ossie bashing, just a fact that he's not, in anyway, good enough. Is the bet on???

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/chelsea-vs-werder-bremen-jose-mourinho-blasts-referee-for-killing-the-match-as-blues-suffer-30-defeat-9646222.html

He seems to take it pretty seriously in all honesty, rather than shrugging it off as a 'good workout'.

This was the point that stood out the most to me Dan. He was there to train.

Jim, we drew in our first three matches because we had Jelavic and Anichebe as our forwards. Once we got a decent one in we started to win. It had absolutely nothing to do with our pre-season.

As an aside, the 2-2 draw with Norwich was a joke, two deflections caused their goals

I would have thought that it was bleeding obvious I meant match fitness rather than physical conditioning. Next time I will be more precise or pedantic depending upon your viewpoint.

And Tony, if that's your view, what happens when Lukaku gets injured? Is that all it takes for our team to start performing poorly against poor teams? With Lukaku we come fifth in the league, and without him we can't best bottom 4 sides? The implication is bizzare.

And Tony again... Liverpool loss to United, who are a step above Celta Vigo, and have had a good pre-season, and Mourinho was definitely upset after the 3-0 defeat (didn't he have a go at the ref?). So what you are saying simply does not hold up.

Pre-season is not a barometer of season form. Certain players dazzle in pre-season and then fall away when the football really begins (Martinez will know that in particular, as Boselli's impressive pre-season/s demonstrated). But we need to be sharp going into the season, and we need to be confident. Everyone will be a little below par because it's a world cup year, but we look shorter than our rivals at the moment. Whilst United have wins against Madrid and Liverpool to give them confidence, and Liverpool have good performances and results, and Arsenal have a thrashing of Benfica, and Spurs a thrashing of Celtic (a weak spurs team against a weaker Celtic team), what have we got so far? We have Arsenal and Chelsea in 2 out of our three 3 fixtures and we need to be ready (Liverpool and United follow before the next international break). The Arsenal game is going to be massive because our home victory against them last season was symbolic of what we achieved under Martinez. If we lose that game, which I feel that we might well do against an almost full strength Arsenal side, then it will similarly have symbolic value and be an early blow to our hopes of matching, or improving on, last season's league form.

Good job teams don't get 3 PL points for winning a friendly

A deflection set up the first and a mishit cross for their second. Both goals were flukes.

If Lukaku gets injured, we have Kone to take his place, not a Jelvaic and Anichebe. What's your point or are you suggesting that Lukaku isn't that important to our team? If not why have we just paid £28m for him?

We may have looked impotent because we were learning a new system. Roberto was surprised that we clicked so quickly but it still needed bedding in time.

The fact remains that pre-season means nothing in regards to the Premier League, absolutely nothing.

As I asked earlier, do you think Brenda and Maureen are shitting themselves because they got beat heavily?

Is Pardew expecting to win the league because they trounced Schalke 3-1?.....bad example!

What if Lukaku picks up an injury, suffers a loss of form or simply needs a rest? I like Naismith, but he is not a number nine. Would love to see Traore back – I think that he could score goals at this level. Everybody wanted Lukaku and it is obvious why, but it's a gamble (as West Ham with Carroll showed) to not have any clear and reliable back up to a main striker.

As an example of how reductive you are being: You take Newcastle's result against Schalke in order to exaggerate a point. I'm not saying that an individual result is important, but that the trend is. This is a simple example, so try to grasp it: If we were to set up a pre-season results table, Everton would be in the relegation zone (fighting with West Ham for bottom spot). Now, we can all state, with some evidence that pre-season is irrelevant. Just as we can state pre-season is relevant (Man United failed to win in 5 of their 7 pre-season games last season btw). But irrespective of the back and fourths, pre-season is an indication of how far along with are in our preparations. At the moment we are performing poorly against teams starting their league campaigns at the same time, or after, ours. We are not looking sharp enough, and we have players missing who will not be properly ready for our first match, and quite possibly, for Arsenal (by properly ready, I do not mean unable to participate, but match fit). Now, pre-season may not dictate a season, but pre-season can dictate the first three matches of a season prior to the international break. The best players in the world can stutter if they are not fully fit, and fully sharp. Will ours be ready? The results and performances at the moment do not fill me with confidence. I believe that we will suffer because of it in our first three matches, and I think we will have 4points max, and quite possibly less, heading into the international break. Feel free to quote me on this, if we start the season on fire. I would love to be wrong. But I do not think I will be. With respect to the comment re. United: I expect them to start the season well because they have good fixtures and clearly are high in confidence (an essential ingredient in football). I think they will be in the top two come the end of September. They will not come above the big two or Arsenal, but I think they will get fourth place if they can add a CB and a CM (which they surely will).

For those stating that pre-season is irrelevant (I personally think it is relevant, but not that relevant), can I pose a question: Would you rather we win the pre-season games and play well or lose and draw them without performing that well? And if you would prefer that we win them, then why?

According to Toffee Web's most knowledgeable members, (which does not include me.), there were various reasons for this. eg. Taking too long to get the ball forward, dilly dallying on the touchline instead of getting the ball across, not getting men into the box, poor shooting, a lack of creativity, poorly hit corners, etc,etc. It certainly is a problem.

Taking too many touches is my own favourite complaint. Eight defenders in the box when we finally get there. Will it be any different this time around? I actually think it might, Especially if we can find a way to get Barkley and Besic buzzing together. The new lad is far too good for a role in the trenches further back where his reckless challenges would result in many yellows and dangerous free kicks.

Gibson is also a forward thinking player, but will he and Besic make the starting line-up? Possibly not. I think Roberto will go with the old guard. They know his system and are pretty reliable.

They must still be shattered, the poor dears.

FFS, it’s preseason — this is the time when we try new ideas and get the rustiness out of the limbs and minds. We have players to come back yet (Lukaku and Mirallas) and a few out injured (Coleman, Kone and Oviedo).

If and when Roberto actually fucks it up, have a go... but where’s all the "In Roberto We Trust" gone???

Things aren’t perfect and we do need additions to the squad but this is a five-year project and we need to get behind the manager and the team.

So, to all you gloomy doomsday moaning sods, if by Xmas we are in the bottom three, have a go then. Remember one thing: We are fans looking from the outside in; we do not know what is going on behind the scenes... so let’s trust Roberto and his programme.

"If Lukaku gets injured, we have Kone to take his place." – What planet are you living on??

Christ, give me Jelavic or Anichebe anytime – at least they were capable of making it onto the pitch once a year!!

Kone hasn’t had a competitive game in a year, hasn’t had a proper pre-season in two years, and doesn’t even get mentioned in Roberto’s injury updates anymore, he is that far of a return to action. But hey, if our £28 million signing gets an injury, don’t panic! Kone will glide onto the pitch and start knocking the goals in for fun!? – Utter nonsense!!

We need another striker in case of injury to Lukaku or it’s back to a forward line of Naismith or Mirallas? At the very least, we need a fit Traore to return but to suggest were okay because we have Kone just beggars belief!!

I also agree that we need another quality striker. Lukaku may have a period where he is off his game or, heaven forbid, injured, Naismith is a good workhorse but by no means prolific and Kone may never hit the (dubious) heights again after his injury. Jelavic may have been poor towards the end of his stay with us but he certainly looked like a striker - and we've never really replaced him.

For the first time, I'm starting to question what's going on with Martinez's strategy.

Mr Martinez said that players can be fit but it takes games to get them match fit. This statement if true raises questions about the pre -season preperations; if we are going to have players that are vital to Everton are we to expect them to take a couple of games to become match fit ?.

Regarding to last nights game we still do not have a quality midfielder that can control a game.

No, I said that we didn't have any decent forwards, not specifically Lukaku. That's why we were poor and I expanded it in regards to the new method of playing. No decent forwards means a reduced goal threat. We got one on loan and what happened? we started getting wins

"As an example of how reductive you are being: You take Newcastle's result against Schalke in order to exaggerate a point."

Well it's seems like the done thing, we are having people having fits after one defeat in pre-season with our half a team.

Here's a simple point for you to try and grasp.

It's ok for me to not arsed about the pre-season results and think it's not reflective on what happens in the season.

As, already been pointed out last years was poor yet look what happened?

"If we were to set up a pre-season results table, Everton would be in the relegation zone" - And if my Auntie had bollocks she would be my Uncle, talk about an "inane line of argument"

Pre-season doesn't get a second thought once the first games begin.

And people are not having fits because of one pre-season game, but because of all of them. How many times do I need to make the same point? (hence the pre-season results table comment which you evidently misunderstood). We are not playing well. We are not getting wins. Pre-season may not get a second thought when the season begins, but the sharpness of players, and their ability to perform to their potential, is directly related to the pre-season matches and pre-season training.

How many points do you think we will have after the first 3 matches Tony? Do you think we look ready? I would love to have your confidence, but I think we will start this season like we did the last.

Against Cardiff

"The visitors survived that scare and went on to dominate proceedings against the home side with some impressive possession football, but they failed to create many real attacking opportunities"

Both games we had Jelavic up front.

Won against Chelsea and then started getting wins so it coincided with Lukaku coming and us started to be comfortable with a new system. So yes lacking a decent striker was part of the limp draws, as with West Ham I would surmise that Lukaku would have probably slotted one of the many chances, the same with Cardiff in which we had 13 attempts on goal to their 3.

Finally what difference does it make how many points I think we will have after 3 games? I don't know, I hope 9.

Can't say if we look ready or not because I won't base it on a meaningless friendly but the team we had last year from the end of the window onwards did ok and we are pretty much starting with the same team so should they suddenly turn crap?

I'd forgotten that the laws were changed last season and it's all those bloody passes that count !

I'll spell it out for you Phil: I claim that we played below par in all three August games last season, especially against West Brom and Cardiff. I do not believe the team performed, and I think that we will not at 100% going into the season. I think that Lukaku addressed a major failing in the team (whilst the other arrivals undoutedly strengthened us), but I believe that we would still have suffered with him in those games because we were not at 100%. I believe we will start this season below par, as I think that the pre-season games indicate that we are behind our rivals in terms of match fitness and sharpness. I do not think that a bad pre-season equates to a bad season, but simply that pre-season is a barometer of our pre-season preparations, and at the moment, we do not look ready.

Jim, answer me this!

Do you think it's a good bet that Lukaku would have slotted just one of the chances that fell to Steven Pienaar, Kevin Mirallas,Seamus Coleman, Ross Barkley and Marouane Fellaini in the West Brom game?

Do you think it's a good bet that Lukaku might have scored one of the 13 chances created against Cardiff?

Just a thought!

Buy one get one free?

Again, your last comment completely misses the point. I'm not saying that the team is suddenly crap, but that the squad does not look sharp enough. Let me repeat a comment from an earlier post: 'The best players in the world can stutter if they are not fully fit, and fully sharp'.

Why are all our rivals playing much better than us in pre-season? Why are practically every team in the league doing better than us? For me the nature of our performances are a cause for concern. These are the same players which will be starting our first Premier League match in 9 days. They will get fitter, quicker and sharper..but I think they are behind schedule.

'He's whiney and plodding and his relentless pursuit of what he believes to be the truth is strangely REDUCTIVE; it makes him look small.'

I think you demonstrate the truth of this sentence particularly well, Jim !

Where's Eugene when you need him?

Not really, because I listed the chances missed and suggested that had we had a competent striker that one of those many missed chances might have been slotted.

Once again you are missing the point. You are judging whether the team is "sharp enough" on a pointless friendly.

"Do you even understand" the meaning of 13 shots at goal? These are chances that may have converted if we had a competent striker on the pitch at the time.....ermm.... ermmm.....reductive

One more time: Our performances at the start of the season were poor. Do you deny that? That's the really really simple point I'm trying to make. We played three of the bottom 4, and we collected three points. And you're trying to change that into a discussion about Lukaku? It's beyond stupid. We should have won those games with or without Lukaku, because we were, and are, demonstrably better than those teams.

Not to mention the crazy long-ball pass from their end all the way to our defense from Baines. Stones didn't deal particularly well with them but can you imagine anybody having that level of trust in Jagielka to receive and deal with those kind of passes?

I also felt that McGeady looked like he was up for the game and, as the commentators mentioned, was obviously disappointed by his previous performance but was again slightly hamstrung by being supported by Hibbert.

I think where I get the most nervous with pre-season is that it can have an effect on individual's confidence rather than it being an indicator of how the team is performing or the team in general worrying about the results. I worry that both Stones and McGeady are going to start the season with unnecessary criticism that might affect their self-belief – something that in Stones, in particular, is clearly a strength we don't want to beat out of him.

Lastly, what do they feed those lads in Spain that they were apparently playing a game every other day and they seemed to occupy all areas of the pitch in large numbers? We helped them looked good in many ways but I don't think we can take away from what they were doing – I guess that's what comes from playing Barcelona twice yearly.

Twisting and turning like a twisty turny thing.

I don't give a bat's nads whether or not our "performance" was up to your standard, as long as the score line shows that we won and I am of the opinion that had Lukaku been in the team for those three opening games that the results would have been different.

So the being "sharp enough" means for shite when you have a striker who can put the ball in the net whereas the usually offside Croatian or mop headed Belgium would slice it wide or forget how to swing his correct leg towards the ball.

One more time, (God! this is beyond stupid.)

Had we had a decent striker in the team for the first three games we would have probably taken more than three points, irrespective of whether you thought we were "sharp" enough or enjoyed the "performance"

In spite of the generally poor nature of the game, there was some glimmers of progress. did anybody notice a slight difference to young Ross' contribution? I saw him a few times actually look up when he was bursting through with pace, and look for options. It would not be unfair to say that last season, the only time he looked up was when he was trying to put yet another 30 yarder into the back of the net. But last night, I took note where a few times he played some clever passes when he could have belted it. Really happy to see him develop that approach, as not managing a single assist is quite poor, even in your first full season as an attacking midfielder.

Its an absolute no brainer that we are going to finish more chances with Lukaku up top, but its also extremely evident that we are going to really have to crank it up with regards to how many chances we create if we want to challenge top 4. Baines had a poor season by his own standards, as did Pienaar, Osman. I would hope to see more than 1 everton player in this type of analysis by the end of this season:

https://www.bsports.com/extratime/premier-league-2013-14-creativity-gerrard-hazard-nasri-silva

I'm as relaxed as hell (sort of). Drooling again over what Besic can offer us. Browning improved. Gibson didn't have to get a note after the game. I'm sure Roberto has an individual fitness plan for each player that will get them to the required level before / by Leicester, and that he's trying out as many young lads as possible (isn't that what we want? so we ain't necessarily going to be setting these friendlies alight).

Personally, I prefer to concentrate on Everton and try to stay well clear of all the goings on elsewhere. The opposition will be formidable, to say the least, but we more than held our own last season and the addition of Besic plus a sharp looking Gibson will make us difficult to beat. Add to these the secret attacking weapon due to land at Finch Farm very shortly and the emergence of youngsters like Tylas Browning who will keep on improving now that he realises he has every right to be there.

Atop all this, we have a Ross Barkley who has fully recovered from his broken toe. Look out Premier League. You aint seen nothin' yet. No, you aint seen nothin' yet. I have carefully studied our boy in the World Cup and pre-season and noted a significant improvement in his allround game. Now a star member of the England team with a great new Everton contract, he is ready to show the world what modern attacking football is all about, Bring it on.

But consider this. Even without additions, assuming the back 4 takes care of itself and that Lukaku (Kone?) will play upfront, there are 5 places left between 11 players, in ab order -

Barkley; Barry; Besic; Gibson; McCarthy; McGeady; Mirallas; Naismith; Osman; Oviedo (later); Pienaar.

I wonder what RM will do? It's pretty strong bench, at least.

The team were not really trying hard enough to win the match in the first half, and given that the result is meaningless, I think I'd prefer a 3-1 loss rather than winning 2-0 and have another 2 players in the treatment room.

It was clear that Celta Vigo worked incredibly hard chasing and harrying and were very sharp in their passing. Combine this with particularly poor showings from Osman, Hibbert and Barry and I think its not surprising we struggled. The ref didn't help our cause by being overly lenient with some of the very rash challenges that were coming in.

Seeing how comfortable Besic is on the ball and looking at some of the tricks he was successfully pulling off on the left wing, it had me fairly certain that he'd do a better job out there than Osman if we were without a proper left winger. It's quite sad that a 21 year old defensive midfielder seems to have more attacking talent and composure than most of our team.

I thought the second half performance was much better, the lads gave it a lot more effort and created numerous chances.

Browning didn't look out of place - playing out of position again? - at left back, and Stones second half performance at right back was very good and really highlighted how poor Hibbert had been up against an admittedly quality player in Nolito.

Martinez is already aware that we're in need of 1 or 2 more attacking options and I think this performance and result will have reinforced that.

Personally I have no doubts that we'll be a different side when all our better players are on the pitch at the same time and when the result actually matters.

I'll get me coat

How they perform in that first Prem.game is what matters and one hopes that only Seamus is unavailable but very few players have stood out so far in these meaningless games except some bright moments from Besic.

Roberto knows what he is doing, that is clear to see. I really think we can shock a few teams both here in the Prem and also abroad in the Europa. Winning the Europa would be my preference for the season. Silverware and qualification to the Champions league has to be the primary target, surely!!

Browning looked quite assured, he looks like he will mature into a player.
Barkley improved as the game went on.
Duffey also looked the part when he came on.

I thought Vigo gave us a more room in the 2nd half, whether they tired or by design I don't know.
Stones is worrying me at centre half, if he's in the team I think it should be at RB. the lads very inexperienced yet and he deserves more time.

Full marks for having a go !

The Poet Laureate's position is definitely NOT under threat !

So don't give up your day job ! :-)

The Poet Laureate's position is off the agenda,
Take your poem 'cross the park and give it to Brenda.