Impasse with United foils late Cleverley bid

If he’s now fit, it’s a no-brainer for me. Will put the pressure on Jags and Distin to perform.

I wouldn’t sell Gibbo unless we had midfield cover coming in.

Alderweireld is solid and fast, just doesn't match Aletico tactics. Believe he will be useful under Martinez.

Ben Arfa can add speed and dribble, he also can dept to square.

THERE IS NOT A CAT IN HELL'S CHANCE WE WILL GET 4th WITH THAT DEFENCE...

If Roberto can't see that then the only word that crops up is 'naive'.

He can spend the rest of the season bigging up Jagielka and Distin but as fans who have watched Everton Football Club for years we know when our defence has a major issue.

The only other two options are a green inexperienced 20 year old, great composed ball player but can't be expected yet to bully centre forwards.

And Alcaraz who ends up ruled out for months after playing one game.

I don't expect any business today either lads, that to me has just put a nail in our overall ambitions this season.

The Europa League hasn't even started yet, God knows what a few injuries could do.

It has been a problem throughout 2014 , conceding shite goals, at the end of the day that's what cost us finishing 4th last season, the games against Palace and Southampton.

We cannot expect any different this season.

We shouldnÂ’t let Gibson leave as we need number plus the he was singing Â’Grand Old TeamÂ’ after we beat Manure in 2012

I have a feeling it will be a busy day for the club, or at least I am hoping it is.

The trouble us too many Evertonians have the Bill Kenwright "all is rosy " view.

If people can't see our problems yet still expect this side to challenge the top 4 then they'd be in cloud cuckoo land.

We failed to beat too many shite teams last season because we conceded cheap goals and it cost us 4th.

The last few years it's cost us the F.A Cup too.

What I want is to ask the people who post on here,..

How many fans are happy and feel safe with going into the rest of the season with the four central defenders we have?

Every time we got back into that match on Saturday we threw it all away when we just maybe, and iI say maybe, could have had Chelsea on the ropes for the last 15 minutes.

Will he be signed or just have to go back home after all this time waiting about ?

He's probably got a mortgage and two kids by now !!

It is glaringly obvious to most of us that the ageing partnership of Distin and Jags (and Tim to a degree) will just not work as it once did.

As to who, or indeed if we will get ayone of quality in, I don't know. I like the sound of Nastasic as he has youth on his side (well, he's early twenties) not sure about Rolando, Shawcross or Alderweireld.

The latter I heard from SSN that he was on the verge of joining Southampton, I remember being linked with him before and I read the reports and watched the YouTube clips, with the shit music accompaniment, and was impressed. After seeing him in the World Cup though, he didn't look as good. (maybe he only plays good to shit music)

Now Lewis Holtby, I would like, not just because of his well known and publicised love of Everton(mind you it does help) but I think he is a good and under-estimated player who could certainly benefit us.

However I also think going the other extreme and painting a doomsday scenario this early in the season is a bit OTT. Things will improve, but cover is needed so none of our CB’s can consider themselves to have exclusive rights to the shirt if their form wanes.

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see our defensive deficiencies, I started touching on it last year about how we don't have to come under any pressure for the opposition to score against us.

We are too easy to score against.

Norwich on the opening day last season, the Goodison Derby when we created enough chances scored goals but let them score three shit setpieces.
Its been going on even in the latter Moyes years though.

You can't hold on to players just because of what they had done over the last 6 year's.

The Redshite knew thru half defensive issues that's why they have signed two new players and put them straight in the team.
At least they have looked to address the issues.

If Martinez truly believes he can somehow go through with those options he has defensively then that 's up to him but he's going to really have his work cut out.

Fabregas and Costa had a field-day with the way we set up against them. Massive mistake by the manager which made some of our defenders look like idiots.

We do need someone to replace Distin in my opinion, but that alone isn't the root of our defensive problems at the moment.

On Saturday from the outset we could not handle the continuous harassment of our players on the ball. From the kick off we were denied our usual game of building from the back. It threw us.

In the first half most attacks broke down too easily and, with marking and tracking from our midfield practically non-existent, pacey Chelsea players broke through us at will putting enormous pressure on our back four.

Jags and Distin, one of the best centre back pairings in the Premiership in recent seasons, will come good again. And with Stones and (a fit) Alcaraz we have enough cover in that position.

What we do need is a class midfielder with the poise and vision to open tight defences – even more necessary when our essentially defensive midfield is not doing its job.

Colin, I refer to your " backstabbing, bitching, moaning, groaning, weeping " allusion to TW.

It would be really boring without all that mate. Enjoy your breakfast mate, but don’t have the humble pie.

You make a more than valid point about the coaching, that also has to come under massive scrutiny, but I just look at Distin and Jagielka and I don't see any mobility, any leadership, they don't bark orders and whenever a corner or setpiece comes in very rarely does either one of them ever race to meet the ball and attack it, that goes for inside both boxes.

Neither over them are particularly great on the balk but that's not the issue that bothers me.

As I say Stones should be the man who is so comfortable with the ball at his feet which he is, but he needs a total 'no shit' man next to him.

I wouldn't be arsed if Jags or Distin can't pass well as long as they started getting their bonce on more balls that come flying in.

He and his inadequate ex- Wigan backroom team have shown their limitations by their failure to prepare properly for this season (all last year's preparations were in place on their arrival) and we are paying the price big-time.

If the window closes without adding the minimum requirements of another central defender and competent goalkeeper to replace the frankly appalling ex Pie Eaters he has in those positions then gawd help us.

The Henen deal, well erm, I think The Guinness Book of Records team are standing by for that one to be finalised.

Patrick, I agree that the defending has got to be shared as a team, and was lacking in the latter part of the games at Leicester and at home to Arsenal, plus the tiredness thing. However I could not fault anyone against Chelsea (even McGeady) but it was glaringly obvious how poor Jags and Distin were once exposed, even with the team effort.

Let's just hope we get some much needed quality in that area in before 11:00pm, fingers crossed.

Despite that, there's no question there's only one way Jags and Distin are going now... They've been on the slide for a couple of years and is not going to get any better. This is the point I was trying to make on another thread recently. We should have had one replacement getting games so that when they come in it doesn't disrupt the unit. Because we don't have that, we pretty much have to go for a CB in his prime with decent PL experience. Strangely, Shawcross was the name I came up with too.

While us mere mortals have to wait for Sherlock Glasser to eventually jump to his feet, don frock coat and deerstalker, stuff magnifying glass into his pocket and set forth for Finch Farm. The curious incident of the football chairman in the night-time?

Come on Glasser! Get moving - it's easy (or whatever that other word is that you use)!

The Distin and Jags partnership looks poor, Distin looks to have slowed considerably (as have a few other ageing players) and Jags looks like he cant cope with moving the ball out from the back and looks to be thinking still whilst he should be playing the ball leaving himself wide open to mistakes and having the ball snatched off him in the most dangerous area of the pitch possible.

I've no idea what Stones has done wrong other than poor gameplay when he was pushed out to RB, right now he needs to be put back at CB where he can play this formation and style, Alcaraz isn't the answer to Distin as he too is far too prone to mistakes. Unless we shore up the defence we'd better get bleeding ruthless up front in every game and bang a bagload in

Now don't get me wrong here I love attacking players coming to us, and I would never ever criticise signing as many as we possibly need but surely after spending over 32 million a central defender should have been part of that?

Yes we knew we all needed a striker which we now have so that's great but Martinez seems to have let the fact we possibly need a creative central midfielder and a centre half pass him by.

He has rectified the wings and hopefully Atsu will provide something similar or better than Deulofeu and we have an ok-ish abundance of forwards but defence and goalkeeper are so vulnerable.

I'm not Howard's biggest fan but if he gets a injury then what?
Robles?

What if Coleman gets injured?

Stones is grossly exposed at right back and then there's just Tony Hibbert who has hardly figured under Martinez.

Then the obvious central defensive problems.

I'm rather surprised by Martinez even leaving it this late to be honest.

For me, the signing of Besic was not a priority, that's not me saying I don't rate him, I haven't seen him properly yet, but I don't think we needed to spend 4 million on another holding midfield player when other priorities needed tended to.

As much as it kills me to say watching that shower yesterday is exactly how opponents whould be addressed ie in their faces from the second they pick up the ball. That lot went hunting in packs yesterday and harried and closed down and pressed on every single occasion just how I expected us to do especially after the Arsenal game.

As I said on a previous thread facing up, closing down, pressing the ball and hunting the opponent down should be a given especially against the teams with the quality of Arsenal & Chelsea. This needs to be addressed and soon.

Something I read this morning from a quote in the red echo from RM stating he wont be bringing in another Centre Half is a bit of a worry to me. He is quoted as saying when asked re the purchase of another centre back “No, I think we have got top defenders in the line-up and top defenders in the squad so I don’t think there is any need to bring anyone in those positions.

If this is the case I am worried especially with letting Duffy go.

We appear ill-prepared and Mr. Martinez's naivety on both his pre-season arrangements and his inability to recognise his central defensive pairing is simply not up to the job, is beginning to cost us dear, even at this early stage of the season.

Distin has looked past his best for over a season and Jags, is a good centre back but presently struggling with the system Mr Martinez adopts and with all due respect is never a captain's backside. Where are the Peter Reid's and Kevin Ratcliffe's when you need them?

Everton 3 sounds great - Chelsea 6 sounds as though we've got something drastically wrong and a great many Evertonians on TW know where the issues lay - the question is does Mr. Martinez?

Lack of preparation is a major factor and that is unforgiveable, he spent the summer swaning around Brazil when he should have been working on the team.

I fear we are in for a long frustrating season and frustration IMO is the worst emotion a football fan can experience as it leads to anger and irrational thinking, he had better get that defence sorted by the next derby because I will not be able to take another thrashing off those bastards...

Perhaps in some ways it has been a blessing that the old guard have begun to show their frailties so early in the campaign and I hope that Roberto has enough time and money to address the problem in this window.

All good teams build from the back, especially those that want to be competing for the long haul. Maybe our neighbours success last season has seen a slight seed change in the old-fashioned keep them out first and foremost and then see what happens. I've always adhered to the mantra let defenders defend and creative players create but at the moment Everton's balance is all wrong and they cannot seem to get the team to work in a cohesive way, which tends to lead to errors of judgement which in this league are punished by whoever happens to be the opponents.

I suppose that a transition from safety-first to potent attacking football was always going to have days like we have seen so far this season, but whatever happens, Roberto has to remind all of the players in the squad that it is the responsibility of every member of that squad to make tackles when necessary and stop this constant leave it to somebody else to put their foot in and try and win the ball back.

If as some believe, Roberto is unable to address the defensive side of the game he will pay the price as any manager who can't sort out a reasonable defence will lose too many goals and games for comfort and no supporter likes to see their side shipping goals and losing matches.

Either way, it will be great close-season’s business with the signings so far and tying down the team’s core to our future. Only worry is possible interest in McCarthy & Mirallas late this window. Avoid loosing them and we can push on from here.

Too little information there mate, although appreciated, what flavour ice-cream was Gerry (Hat-trick) Riquelme eating?

I believe heÂ’s signing for Camell Laird.

I certainly hope so, he wouldn't be much use legless, cue Andy Van Der Meyde, but seriously would like him at Everton.

I am not sure as to his value, in crazy transfer terms that is, but can't see it being a King's Ransom either, as he was loaned to Fulham last season.

Now Spurs have Mauricio Pochettino and he obviously doesn't see him as part of his plans, which makes me wonder somewhat, I quite like Pochettino and feel he is a good young manager, but there again I don't know. From what I've seen and heard I do like Holtby.

1. Offensive midfield – Barkley is the only real choice. If he gets injured, we have a problem, as Ossie is not your typical No 10. Naismith actually can play ’in the hole’ and so does McCarthy (used to play there at Wigan), but they’re not typical offensive mids either. We really could get Sigurdsson: look – Swansea played 3 games, Sigurdsson has 4 assists, speaks for itself.

2. Goalies – Robles doesn’t do anything to gain trust from anybody. Childish mistakes, lapses of concentration, Howard ageing. This department must me addressed very, very soon, if not now, we must consider some changes here.

3. Central defence – Jagielka and Distin were so solid last year, but that’s not the case now at all. Add to that inexperienced Stones, injury-prone and mistake-prone Alcaraz and now you start to see the problem here. One solid centre-back needed fast!

4. Right-back – Coleman is great, but Hibbo is past his years and to be honest never suited Martinez style of football with his left- and right-backs going forward and overlapping wingers. He renewed his contract but I seriously hope Martinez won’t make him a Coleman deputy. We love you Hibbo, but you’re not good enough, sorry. Stones is no right-back as seen in an away Liverpool game last season and recent Leicester game. Browning is even more inexperienced and suited to a centre-back role as well. The conclusion here is simple: if Coleman is injured, we have a big problem.

Changes in those four departments are necessary and inevitable.

Question from Mark do you expect it, to be very very busy tomorrow?

"I don't you there to be a last blockbuster which we might have expected or anticipated.....like a Radamel Falcao coming in on loan that obviously not going to happen."

Alvarez Balanta along with John Stones would be a long term defensive solution for the club also providing two ball playing centre halves with the ability to bring the ball out of defence.

The only draw back is that Alvarez Balanta is not the type of physical imposing CB that Sylvain Distin is, as he is under 6 foot. Bruno Martins Indi would have been the ideal replacement but he joined Porto last month. A missed opportunity there.

Roberto = Cool Hand Luke, eh. Let's hope he doesn't eat too many hard-boiled eggs, could be off putting for any potential transfer negotiations, even with the windows open.

https://twitter.com/intent/user?screen_name=ncustisTheSun

Don't get any Pannini stickers yet, it could all change by 11:00pm and then it's swops, and confusion.

Keep an eye out for any well known footballers, loitering around chip shops and ice-cream vans, there could always be a story there.

Christ knows, it’ll have to be a free if he’s expecting anywhere near the same wages as he’s currently on (£60k!!!)

Might be a lively deadline day if the rumour mill is to be believed

SSN are strongly linking us to Nastasic but claiming Arsenal have made a polite enquiry.

Right. We'll have both of them for starters, okay they'd be shit as Central Defenders but come to think of it, they'd be an improvement on Saturday's dabacle.

Next Please!

Forget Cleverley. We need a young, strong CB first and foremost - Distin is 36 for god's sake; Jags and Alcaraz both 32. All three have their best years behind them. Stones can't do it on his own and Browning/Galloway not ready. CB must surely be top priority.

@Amit. Could we take the spam on loan with a view to buy?

I think that sounds more like Piss-trami than spam mate, keep the observations going though, you never know.

Gareth was a regular for Villa in the defensive position and is certainly quicker to re-act than either Jags or Sylv.

If so, and considering our defensive ineptitude at the moment, maybe we could have pulled the plug on the deal, kept the lad (for competition if nothing else) as he wasnÂ’t a bad Â’old fashionedÂ’ defender. Anyway, if heÂ’s going, it must mean we have a replacement coming...

He's holding out for a tin of Ye Old Oak Ham and Bill's looking down the back of the car seats for the extra pennies...

HeÂ’s backed Roberto 100% this season, so if we donÂ’t make Champions League or have the season weÂ’re all hopeful for, can we change the record for once?

ItÂ’s now his fault our defence is leaking goals because he hasnÂ’t invested?? No itÂ’s not! Our defence has been transformed from our strongest point to our weakest point in a matter of 12 months by our manager!

As our chairman spent the summer signing up our major players and shattering our club transfer record, we watched these excellent chairman at other clubs like Crystal Palace, Southampton, and Sunderland basically self-destructing on their own?? There comes a time when we have to stop complaining about what we donÂ’t have and actually expect the extra 20 or 30% some of our current players and manager need to give to fix our current issues.

Jagielka hasn’t just become an England centre half who can’t defend, so no amount of transfer activity will cure this. If it’s a confidence issue, a system issue, or just a complacency issue, it’s down to Jagielka and Martinez to sort it — not Bill fecking Kenwright!!

Pending a work permit... Well they've given themselves plenty of time for it to come through at least.

It would be nice to hear something positive from you.

Simple game now manipulated by the moneychangers and their tame, dissembling managers. Martinez is no better or worse than his peers but errs in believing we are just a bigger Wigan.

But ... not even his shoes?

Ever get that feeling that Someone really hates us?

Distin and Jags have been consistent for so long but facts have to be faced: they are making mistakes. Stones has to be given a run out in my opinion as he has class.

But the problem isnÂ’t just the central pairing. The two fullbacks consistently get caught up-field and, whilst they can be quite speedy getting back, there are occasions when teams who are fast on the break will punish you, as happened on Saturday.

Coupled with these problems is the fact that the team as a whole when necessary cannot seem to park the bus as effectively as many other teams do. Getting behind the ball is fine but being quick enough and strong enough to make the challenges is another.

Dare I suggest that Everton become more resilient by being less of an open attacking team, like the old West Ham sides? Maybe so.

Nastasic had to say that, didn’t he? He’s not going to say "I don’t want to play for fat Sam." Wait for a couple of hours until Pellegrini tells him to fuck off – then we’ll see what happens.

Jagielka sometimes get praise for last ditch recovery tackles, whilst people overlook his deficiencies. Often he seems out of his depth when up against strikers with a bit of pace or skill.

Even allowing for his odd cock-up while he's still learning, I can't see how Stones could do much worse. As long as he played as CB rather than RB.

Not even a hint of a rumour...

When I look back on our amazing history it drives me mad, we are being taken for fools. As you rightly say, we are spending very little, like we have done since Bill came in. Depressing, full stop.

But Roberto deserves some backing; I just hope he gets it but I fear the Sky dough and any other income is going where Bill chooses, Holland Park mansion extensions etc.

However, will check in again late evening fully expecting our Â’big signingÂ’ to be splashed all over the front page. This is simply the calm before the storm ......

After such a profligate summer, we must learn to be grateful and make a positive out of the poor preparation for the season.

You have to see that Roberto was on his holidays and felt it only right to let the players enjoy the same. So the late start will see our lads Â’hitting their strapsÂ’ around November by when every other side will be fooked.

Good times are just round the corner. [HowÂ’s that for optimism?]

On another note for everyone screaming about our CB position you do realize that TWO of our CBs are training with England this morning, they canÂ’t be that bad!

Ron Vlaar would be a good buy in January as he is out of contract at the end of the season and he is not fully fit at the moment. He is a bloke who puts his head where it hurts.

I think Distin is not going to be kept on beyond this season, and Stones should be first choice soon over Jags.

Seriously, Phil you have won me over. I just hope you're wrong but somehow my gut feeling is you just might be right.

Defence, FFS... defence!

Regarding (a), with Blue Bill still in shock from what has been spent this year, I do not think we have enough in the kitty to replace our central defenders with two other quality central players.

Looking at option (b), the only one is Stones who could replace one of the central defenders but, as well as he played last year, he still made a number of mistakes that would have to be accepted during a full season as part of a learning curve. Bringing in Stones, who is more effective on the right side of defence, means Jags is out and that means we only need money for one quality left-sided defender to replace Distin. Who?

The other thing that should happen is that the club should bring in a top defensive coach to assist the Manager in integrating his attacking philosophy with solid defending techniques.(Perhaps an Italian defensive coach?)

After watching some of his games from last season, Alcaraz... no.

Both worked well under Moyes. RM needs to get his own men in, and have the bollocks to drop his favourites (Christ, not that word again). So ideally, someone in today would be a good start.

I’m not actually sure what applies if we were to try to sign a player from Germany (closes at 6pm I think) at 8pm our time – within our window but outside of theirs.

(ThatÂ’s not a hint by the way; IÂ’ve heard nothing all day. Relying on Mr Glassar.)

So what, he left for big money? – Who wouldn't leave their job to get more money elsewhere?

What's the point he's only going to play in the U-21's anyway, we won't see him this season.

If he was that good don't people think we'd have rushed to sign him by now.?

Cleverly as a long term replacement for Osman as a forward thinking CM I can understand. Cleverly to play in PienaarÂ’s position? Sorry Greg, even suggesting this doesnÂ’t make much sense.

You could say the same about Eric Dier... he certainly looks 'that good', but we failed to sign him.

From the sky sports news transfer centre site about an hour ago.

Major would suggest to me a , established, recognised player on a permanent signing for a fairly substantial fee.

Does that mean just one deal altogether... one recognised 1st team player

or just one deal & potentially Henen....

or does it mean just one recognised player and Henen who'll go into the development squad....

Regarding the "MAJOR", is it - one permanent transfer... one loan... this is so open it can mean too many things.

I think Cleverley on loan will be it and maybe Henen. Let's hope a loan signing of a decent centre back too.

You know. Every player costs a fortune these days but doesn't mean they're all potential superstars. They're just overpriced and it's a seller's market.

So clubs smile, hold their nose, and pay up – even though they know they're being ripped off. Especially when buying is left to the last minute and they're desperate. Like we are now.

"Alan Irwin reports from Everton's Finch Farm training ground on a potential loan move for Manchester United midfielder Tom Cleverley and says the club have denied making a swoop for two Premier League defenders."

Cleverly – another CM, wtf? We need CB's & winger.

Same happened to Stones last year... should we just get rid of him as well??

Mertesacker was also ripped apart by RS before winning the World Cup. You can't judge a player by one game, especially when his team mates are hopeless.

Dier definitely looks a player. He was thrown straight into a dodgy spurs team, but started with 2 clean sheets and 2 goals. He looks very good on the ball and has plenty of pace. He will grow into a great CB in my opinion, as well as cover for RB.

In McCarthy, Barry, Gibbo and Besic, we have enough CMs. What we don’ have is creativity.

And please no Wellbeck either, in Lukaku and Eto’o, with Kone to come back, use the wages and loan fee for a ...............D E F E N D E R!

Jags has always been a player who needed confidence to play at his best and the World Cup media witch-hunt has destroyed his confidence IMO.

It hasn't exactly helped Bainesy either but the other major problems I see are McCarthy is either unfit or his mind is somewhere else and Lukaku can't seem to hold the ball up most of the time.

The problem is with the likes of Chelsea and Arsenal followed by Man Utd and the RS, it does not give us games where they can rebuild that confidence and rhythm.

I thought Stones and Distin were our best central pairing last season so I would give that another try and accelerate Galloway's progress to eventually take over Distin's role.

I am not expecting anything exciting today. I think we may end up with Cleverley but IMO that will complete RM's portfolio of bad buys.

Now I know most people on here may not agree with me but I think since we sold Fellaini to Man Utd, we can't defend set pieces. He used to defend corners from the opposition and also scored goals. I think we should try to get Big Hair back on loan if we can.

In the modern game, players are now expected to fulfil a number of roles and this means being exceptionally fit. I'm afraid that Jags has not been this for a long time... and others, Distin especially, and Barry, are covering for him. We need additional players so selling Gibson would be daft

I'll be surprised though if we get any additions today which would be a shame.

Mertesacker got ripped apart several times last season and he makes Jags look like The Flash yet he's still in Arsenal's and Germany's first eleven and for all the hiding they got, including the one we gave them, they still finished in the top 4.

Chelsea caught us cold with 2 quick goals. Maybe if they hadn't done that, the score might have been different and we wouldn't be on Jagielka's back so much now.

Personally I don't care who we get because it won't make any difference. We won't make the top 4 while our arses point at the floor. Pienaar and Barkley are out already and we've only played 3 games. I doubt the injury situation is going to improve in the coming weeks. So unless RM is planning on bringing in 10 players in the next few hours we are going to struggle this season. Not relegation struggle but mid-table at best.

Fellaini could not play CB and I wouldn't want to find a place in the team for him for the sole purpose of defending set pieces.

Our defence could not defend in a straight line on Saturday and our CBs were miles apart on far too many occasions. Fellaini wouldn't fix this either.

Spot on agree your post, a player in the Nolito mould is what we need.

We have many similar players to Cleverley already.

Also, doesn't Cleverley have like 1 year on his contract to run where you can sign him for free. I'll be pissed if we spend decent coin on him, when we could spend that on someone else and sign Cleverley (if Roberto wants him) on a free in 6 months.

All players have dual roles, but for the life of me, I can't see the point of Cleverley – especially with his wage demands.

The trouble with virtually all football managers is that they like to work within their own comfort zone as well as provide employment for everyone who has deferred to them at previous clubs. Thus we end up with half of Wigan when OFM took 'his mob' to Old Trafford. Pathetic.

'The situation with virtually all football managers is that they like to work with people they know and trust and therefore tend to provide employment for those who have worked well with them before. Thus we end up with half of Wigan when OFM took 'his mob' to Old Trafford. Nothing too unusual in that.'

Maybe he turned down the Redshite job because he knew he would be found out, took this job knowing that he would have more time. What he has underestimated is the fans' knowledge.

Going to be a more interesting season than the last...

10 minutes before I can go home and waste my own time instead of my bosses watching this space....

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/505866/Porto-s-Rolando-poised-for-8m-Everton-move-after-agent-arrives-at-Finch-Farm

TW has always benefited from having some contrary characters, but bile and misery are destroying any wit or wisdom your posts may contain.

People questioning apparent moves for another midfielder need to answer these questions:

1) Has there been any recent updates on how long Ross Barkley will be unavailable?
2) Is Darron Gibson actually capable of playing the defensive midfield role as it is defined in the current system which is intended to give the full backs more freedom to get involved in attack?
3) Is Gareth Barry able to hack it against the very best attackers and very mobile attacking midfielders?

It is clear that until the last three games the manager did not see another central defender as a priority, and three weeks ago there are not that many who would have strongly disagreed with him. I think the sale of Duffy was intended to free up some funds for the acquisition of a central defender who will actually improve on the quality of what we had. Whether it comes to fruition at this late stage is another matter, but it shouldn't stop players being brought in in other positions if the manager wants them for now or the near future.

Still, are either imbecilic enough to make sweeping statements that will probably be rammed down their throats in six months time?

Why would anyone not 'particularly rate' Stones as a player? Even a contorted Columbo with knees wrapped round his chin whilst cracking one off into his non-cyborg eye can see clearly the natural talent and potential the lad possesses.

Motherfucker could look like the Team America version of Matt Damon and it still wouldn't provide the slightest indication of his actual footballing intelligence. Writing the season off after just three games on the other-hand? That's like Hermann Munster scrawling 'meff' on his massive wheelie bin of a forehead just to make sure there's been no misunderstanding.

Give over, we have drawn away at Leicester (who have just drawn with Arsenal) a draw with Arsenal who will finish top 4, beaten by probable Champions Chelsea and yet to read some you would think we are a disaster area, what crap.

Of course Phil with his pathological hatred of anything Wigan jumps on any so called setback and some other poor judges join in the chorus, what do they say about empty vessels!

The answer is fairly obvious when you can't help but wonder if the last twelve words of the question are even necessary.

Sell Lukaku for a loss now! He hasn’t done anything in 3 games (okay maybe the pass to the Scottish Messi!) but won’t be worth £10 million next May!!

We need a centre-back!!

Darren Fletcher been spotted at a Petrol Station in Tuebrook.

Harry Redknapp's car window been seen on a Mercedes in the Goodison Park Car park?

David Henen chained to a radiator in the Lebanon for 5 years?

The leading scorer in the Bolivian second division is currently on the M1 racing to get to Finch Farm before the deadline?

Where's all the fun gone?

3) Is Gareth Barry able to hack it against the very best attackers and very mobile attacking midfielders?

Well, simple answer to that is I fooking hope so given we just gave him a 3 year contract barely a month ago!

I presume your midfielder comment is related to people on TW being underwhelmed by the Cleverly rumours. Question I'd ask is, assuming we do sign Cleverly (seriously hope not), where exactly is he supposed to play and what does that mean for Besic? He's not an AM and Barry/McCarthy will play most games presumably.

It looks increasingly like that Tom Cleverley will not be a Manchester United player come 11pm tonight. Aston Villa had been linked with the England midfielder but Everton are now the front runners for Cleverley's signature. Alan Irwin is at their Finch Farm training ground and reports United are looking to broker a permanent deal for the 25-year-old.

We can get him for free in 6 months, so I really hope if its permanent we don't pay too much for him.

I'm not panicking just yet though. I remember the window last summer looking just as slow just before we got McCarthy, Barry and Lukaku in who wasn't even a faint blip on the radar until very late on. Still the possibility of an unexpected one in!

My foot is itching.
The hairs on the back of my neck are stood on end.
The TV came on of its own accord.
The broadband middle light keeps flashing the traditional EFC colours of blue then amber.
My pot noodle - which I made over half an hour ago but forgot about - is still hot (ish).

Signs.

(If it's poltergeists again I'll be bloody livid).

It also must mean that Martinez has doubts over Gibson's long term future and fitness.

Whoever we sign, IF we sign anyone, then as ever it will be welcome.

Instead he sends the team out with a gung-ho attacking approach and expects the centre two to sort it all out when the opposition respond. Of course, the reality is that anyone who studied Wigan will know, neither he nor his minions have a clue about defending and whilst you may get away with it in the frenetic atmosphere of a cup-tie, the Prem will always find you out.

This is the price Everton are paying for buying into the Martinez philosophy that beautiful football will always prevail. The truth is that as Harry Catterick told Keith Newton so long ago, ' we didn't win the league by pissing about it, we got it to Bally !

"Hey all you ToffeeWeb 'iffers' who can't wait until 11.00om and are iffin and what-iffin all over the town, this one is goin' out specially to yooooou"

Link

LetÂ’s hope that Roberto can tap his magic wand and spirit up a deal or two before the window closes. The players being touted are scraping the barrel and not worth signing by any club with real ambitions.

I couldnÂ’t care less if we donÂ’t sign anyone. Well... maybe thereÂ’s a centre-half out there somewhere who could do a better job than Jagielka. Oh and a forward coach to teach the lumbering Lukaku how to trap a bastard ball!

I will keep watching until 11 but I wouldn't be surprised if we got nobody else in

Re. our defensive worries: We need time to settle, as our pre-season left us behind other teams. Come next match we will be as fit as we need to be, and will improve. That said, Martinez has something to prove: Can he buy, and develop, good defenders? Can his teams play defensive football well, or was last season a legacy of the excellent defensive buys, and organisation, of the Moyes era? Martinez motivates players, and gets his players to attack very well: There are still question marks over the defensive side.

Maybe it's Nathan Cleverly we're in for?

(Tony Bellew would be furious).

It would have been better to have brought Rodwell back.

Everton are my favorite Premier League team. I started watching during the Landon Donovan loan spells. I do check in on Tim Howard too.

I was really pleased to see Roberto Martinez come on board and IÂ’m a huge supporter of him and what heÂ’s done.

The #1 thing heÂ’s done is bring his positive outlook and his belief that his teams can get results against any team. 72 points last season was more than impressive for a team that has less than half the budget of the big teams. To really vie for a Champions League spot, you need to score more than the 61 goals Everton scored last year; 70+ goals and a goal difference of +30 are targets you need to shoot for to finish top 4.

This transfer window Roberto Martinez has prioritized scoring more and I agree with him... I was really bummed when Everton blew the 2-0 lead against the Gunners and I missed the first 5 minutes of the Chelsea game when the TV station that was supposed to carry the game showed a college football game instead (that doesnÂ’t happen in the UK!). I had to watch the Chelsea game off my iPadÂ…

I, like most of the posters to ToffeWeb, was hoping for a big central defender signing. Maybe one will come but it doesnÂ’t look likely. The business Roberto Martinez has done for a club the size of Everton in the 14-15 months heÂ’s been on the job is about a 99 on a scale of 1 to 100. Last season, he bought three or four really good players that fit his style of play. He got loan deals for Lukaku, Barry and Deulofeu. This summer, heÂ’s spent the bulk of his money buying Lukaku, Berry and EtoÂ’oÂ… Besic and Atsu could be good value too.

The other thing to consider is only one regular Everton player (Fellaini) has left the team since Bobby has come to town. The players have definitely bought into his positive style of play. EtoÂ’o would never had considered Everton if the style of play was the stodgy defensive system played by MoyesÂ…

Convincing Baines to stay under the Man Utd pressure last summer was impressive; holding up the sale of Fellaini and then extracting £28 million from Man Utd was even more impressive.

I really think if "Bobby" had the cash, there would be defenders already onboard. The funds went to buying a striker who has scored 17 and 15 goals in his first two Premier League seasons. (Only Suarez has scored at least 15 both of the last two seasons.) To me, this money had to be spent. A 15+ goalscoring centre-forward wonÂ’t come around often for a team like Everton; in todayÂ’s inflated market they usual cost more.

If LukakuÂ’s 1st touch and ball control were a bit better heÂ’d have scored 40 goals and be wearing a blue shirt with "Samsung" on the front. HeÂ’s also left-footed and can play wide right, like he has against the Gunners. Lukaku driving at pace at Nacho Monreal gets my blood flowing. Lukaku is left footed (which is nice) and he counts as a home grown player. If Lukaku progresses as a player (and I think he will under Bobby and with EtoÂ’oÂ’s help), I could see Man City forking out a bloody fortune for him in a couple years.

Telling Man City that Barkley would cost them £50 million was smart too.

EtoÂ’o is a great pickup. He still is a world class player. If Chelsea played an offensive system better suited to #9 strikers he would have scored more than 9 goals from his 22 startsÂ…

IÂ’d agree with anyone who says Everton need a defender, this transfer window has all been about signing Lukaku and Berry to Everton contracts (plus signing EtoÂ’o) and getting all the other important Everton players to commit and sign for improved terms. There apparently isnÂ’t enough money available for the quality defender we all want.

Just remember that the funds available to Bobby are much more similar to Aston Villa and QPR than they are to the big teams (and EvertonÂ’s players are way better than VillaÂ’s or QPRÂ’s).

If things donÂ’t go swimmingly this season, my support wonÂ’t waverÂ… Everton are the one team in the Premier League that do not have a huge budget, but they scare the crap out of the big boys when they see Everton on the schedule.

We can only dream of winning the Europa League and getting into Champions League that wayÂ… It could happen. Bobby beat Man City with Wigan in an FA Cup Final!!!

As to that, Im still scratching ma head how hull got dawson for 3.5 million. He would have been ideal and better that the names mentioned today. What were we thinking to miss out on him.... Surely he would have picked us over hull! Gutted with that one!

1) Jags (English international!!) looks really out of form. I have always felt he was limited as a football and his passing and distribution is poor. But defensively he was always solid in particular in his partnership with Lescott. But he the normal Jags is not a Martinez type and the out of form Jags would not even make the Wigan team!!! Solution. Short term:Just play Stones with Distin. Medium term: We need to buy a real class defender.

2) Our defence does not get proper protection during 90 minutes. Our two defensive midfielders seems to run out of steam the last 15, and even Osman looked really tired again arsenal where he was not even starting the game. But most importantly when we play both Mirallas and McGeady they are really challenged defensively and put a lot of extra burden on the defensive midfielders.

Meanwhile, back in the Sky studios, Natalie is sporting a lovely off-the-shoulder lemon number.

I also share with you the hope and quiet confidence that the problems will gradually disappear as the season progresses.
That is not to excuse Martinez for causing them in the first place by abrogating his pre-season responsibilities.

I have to agree – one of the best games I’ve seen Kevin Mirallas have on Saturday. He tracked back, got stuck in, and was lively and creative in attack, plus he scored a goal – can’t ask for much more than that.

Feyenoord to Real Madrid to Everton, to Alania Vladikavkaz to Reading and now on to the mighty Sheffield Wednesday.

The only thing getting bigger for his is his waistline, pity, the boy had talent...

Confidence is huge in any player and his has obviously been rock bottom recently.

I don’t see the need for another midfielder and would rather strengthen in other areas where I think we are lacking.

However, Roberto has worked with him & got the best out of him and knows him as well as anybody.

I remember watching Cleverley for United against City 2/3 years ago in the Charity Shield and he ran the show.

He hasn’t lost that ability - he’s still in his early/mid 20’s, he has or did last year, lose his confidence.

I’m far from writing Cleverley off, McCarthy when signed was a hugely overpriced ......

Even Eto as recently as Friday, to a lot of people, Eto was an awful signing - a crocked grandad, come Sat evening I doubt there are many would argue - it looks like a great bit of business.

If Roberto wants him and we get him then I’m sure we’ll see the best Tom Cleverley there is.

IRWT

If that's so, how could they possibly have got relegated ? By pissing about at the back by any chance?

Shame to see Ben Arfa heading to Hull, I think he could have completed our forward line.

This is, remember, only MartinezÂ’s second season, he inherited this squad; many tired and becoming old... and he has completely revitalised us! Lay off him!! Expect business, good quality business from our Bobby. He made our season with the Deadline Day signings this time last year.

But my point is that Mirallas is much more of a offensive than a defensive player. When combined with McGeady who is really lightweight defensively we put a lot of pressure on the rest of the team defensively.

If we compare with my good friend Mourinho. He demands a lot of his wide midfielders in terms of tracking back and that is the key to their (normally) strong defence.

£80k a week – for Cleverly... I am still underwhelmed, I presume the powers that be won't be touching that kind of deal.

Go back years... Tim Howard, stuck as Number Two keeper, signed on the cheap; as a more mature goalkeeper, he has surely became one of the best in the league.

Or take a Look at Louis Saha, an older player still proved his qualities with us; or more to the present, Darron Gibson. Cheap but, despite fitness issues, has still put together some great performances.

More to the point, Cleverly has title-winning, Champions League experience and is a decade younger, a no-brainer to me. The next Osman.

As I previously said, lay off Bobby. He’s a year into the job and boy has he proved himself. A few average performances at the start of the season used to be the "normal Everton poor start" under Moyes; we need to get behind the team – not disrupt them.

I hardly think Wigan is pre requisite, the coaching staff he's worked with & trusts - a fundamental for any manager surely, likewise, the few players he's brought from there.

They got relegated imho because they had a tiny budget and had to sell their best players every season.

A tough task for anybody surely, they also won the FA Cup beating Man City in the final under Roberto, something we haven't done as a club for almost 20 years.

We received almost £90 million from the media and made well over £20 million during the past two transfer windows and we have been out spent (again) by lots of teams who usually look to survive.

It seems we may get Cleverley if we are able to arrange a loan. That to me just about sums up the ambition of our beloved club!

Everton have signed Noah Bo'di.

Don't know a thing about him to be honest but a definite signing according to Sky.

Possibly a Ghanaian or Cameroon under 21 play....oh..er..cancel that,

Just realise he said 'Everton have signed nobody.'

Cruel man...

Balls of steel or what?

I don’t understand how you can moan about spending! We may not have spent more then 7 or 8 teams, but 4 gained Champions League status - gaining around £35-45M. Then there is Man United, of course they are having an overhaul... Along with Southampton who sold half their team and have just reused the funds!

Everton however, have broken their transfer record, brought in a player or two for the future and have all in all spent around £34 million, WITHOUT selling one of our top players. The spending will likely go up too.

Martinez is not having the best of times just now, but letÂ’s be logical when talking about the Chelsea game. We chased the game hard against a very clinical Chelsea and you canÂ’t really fault the effort put in by the team. I disagree about McCarthy turning slowly, I just think heÂ’s fucked having to do so much work and we really need more mobility in the centre of the park against the better teams.

Barry keeps Everton ticking with his clever football, but IÂ’m not sure he gets close enough against the quicker teams. He got close to Willian in the first minute but, because of his lack of pace, he got turned and never recovered his position until we were picking the ball out of our net.

With the width of our fullbacks and all the covering McCarthy has to do, I think it could be affecting his all-round game and we really could do with more energy in there when it comes to playing the top teams.

Yes, I am gently disagreeing with those who can't see any point in signing another midfielder and think there were quality defenders just waiting to be snapped up. If you can start to think of Besic as another central defender then you are half-way to believing that we already have done! ;)

If you think Michael Dawson is in any way better* than any of the central defenders we already have then you obviously have not actually properly watched him play, and certainly didn't witness his usual 'splayed legs, stuck in no-man's land' clownish performance against Villa yesterday.

(* If his missus happens to be more attractive than any of the others, that does not count!).

Poor memory, I know, but I don't recollect a word about this offhand.

Dom Ungi - if you consider we had an extra £20 million pounds income this year, we hardly spent any of what we got from deals last summer and in January, and we have apparently only had to produce £5 million up front then the fact that it was a transfer record is lessened greatly. There should still have been money available for half a dozen frees / loans / relatively low-cost permanent deals. I (and others) think we are at least a couple short of really strengthening the squad in terms of upping the number of senior players from last season.

Cleverley deal now off. If Henen has also not happened then there is still a definite whiff of amateurism in some of our attempts to bring players to the club.

Captain Phil off to Spurs?

Ok I'm wrong this time, isn't the first time, certainly won't be my last. :)

Si 342
I not saying we haves end all of our transfer budget I understand completely what you are saying but not all the money can go into transfers, we offered new deals to many players, made upgrades to training and stadium facilities and then made 34£ million worth of signings. Good business, not the best, shame we couldn't get a couple over the line. There is still 40 mins...

No foreign loans (unless I have forgotten something), so apparently we didn't impress any continental clubs enough for us to find a few potential gems to polish up? That seems particularly disappointing as well.

So it's down to Cleverley and just how much he wants to play first team footy.

At the same time, a great transfer window compared to some of the transfer windows of the past; better to get your business done early, for any of you people who are disappointed about no last minute business.

If we fail to win a trophy and slip outside the European places this season when are we likely to get another chance as good. Would imagine something in the trophy cabinet would attract / retain players in the next few years more than some improvements to the training facilities. Certain that the supporters would have traded some cosmetic changes at Goodison for a couple of squad players in this season of increased opportunity as well

Why if he rates Cleverley so much did he splash so much money on a 3 year contract for a 33 year old Gareth Barry?

Why sign Besic?

Why no central defender??

No pressure on Jagielka or Distin aged 32 and 37 apart from a inexperienced 20 year old and a totally knackered 31 injury prone crock in Alcaraz.

Disappointed to be honest.

Again I completely agree, woke up very optimistic that Bobby and Bill would set out to exploit the mistakes of United, and Liverpool signing so many players and doing a "Tottenham" but clearly not the case. Will be years before we get such a good opportunity like this and in failing to capitalise on the chance will surely enrage fans. I wasn't saying I agreed with spending money elsewhere then signing more quality players just stating what had actually happened. Very disappointing day in my opinion indeed, unless something materialises out of thin air in the last fifteen minutes.

All of those situations are plausible and would go some way to explaining why he has spent time trying to sign Cleverley. For the actual answer you need to ask him.

Henen was the other "loss" but they've had plenty of time to determine his value. If they say he wasn't worth it, I believe them. People tend to believe the hype in young players far too often. Most of them just aren't very good.

I didn't really expect much from today. We've had a good transfer window and should be able to compete domestically and in Europe. Our defense has been bad so far but we had the 3rd stingiest defense last year with the same players. Probably just need to refocus and recommit again.

I should imagine that United have played hard ball and have not gone out of their way to facilitate the deal after last seasons deadline day.

Time for a ToffeeWeb vote? ;)

Ben Arfa would've been a decent addition and given us a player who can produce a bit of magic. Ah well, now the window is shut, I can stop checking NewsNow every 10 minutes!

It's hard to say in this case as none of us knows how good Henen is. Martinez has at least seen a lot of him on the training ground. If he was willing to play hard ball on £1.5 million, that means to me that he's not that bothered.

Still, if RM can cure the defensive woes, who knows what will transpire?

I thought it was generally accepted that managers only really identified the targets these days and other club executives actually did the dealing.

I also thought it was generally accepted amongst the Everton fan-base that it is the men who have a tight hold on the purse strings who determine which deals get done.

It's plainly obvious Martinez wants him and he wants to come; I believe he will be an Everton player soon enough. Man Utd still pissed off and playing hardball because we mugged them off for Fellaini, fuck them!

News flash, we made our signings early, spent a boat load and have a better squad than we did at our peak last season. And this is somehow met with cries of woe and lamenting. Pull yourself together!!

You are punishing the manager and board for actually doing deals early, and therefore not feeding you your now twice annual last minute panic buy (which granted they attempted to do, but thank goodness it failed, as Cleverly is shite).

And finally, the crying about needing to buy defenders and a new keeper - seriously, 3 games in vs Chelsea and Arsenal. Some serious jerking of knees around here lately.

Therefore, not signing anyone, implies that we have no weakness.
Reverse psychology.
Mark my words, our rivals will be cacking themselves.

Martinez doesn't handle the actual deals but it's him and his guys who have determined Henen's value. The financial guys aren't scouts. Everton went a bit high on Lukaku at £28 million because Bobby made it clear he was worth it. If Martinez had told them Henen has a lot of potential and is worth £3 mill, the deal probably would have gotten done.

I doubt this was about Everton being completely out of money.

Not that Cleverley or Henen were near the top of any wish-list I may have had. It is just that they seemed like definite possibilities so not signing them seems like a failure of some sort.

Manure are probably really keen to recoup money through transfer fees to replenish their kitty for the next transfer window. Their business model means they are likely to be more keen on balancing the books anyway, but they also have to avoid falling foul of financial fair play rules.

We consistently make money during transfer windows and even Lukaku has been bought in instalments. We are the 20th most valuable club in the world but still penny-pinch and wait to pick the bones out of whatever other clubs have left.

Cleverley has been off form for at least two seasons and was dire playing against MK Dons so why are we interested in him? Wait until the dust settles and compare our money spent with the other clubs in the Premier League. I predict Roberto will lose patience much sooner than David Moyes did when the penny finally drops.

Any club with real ambition buys when they are on top and that has been borne out during this window. Man Utd will buy their way back to the top four, even if not this season. BK and his buddies have received well over £100 million in media revenue and profitable transfer windows – and that is a fact! We still do not have a larger squad than last season yet we are expected to make a decent fist in extra fixtures earned in Europe.

So I'm with you on that point Harold. My worry is that last season our defenders were so entrenched in OFM ways they played to that standard last season. My worry although it might sound dramatic, is that the fears we had about the high scoring games when Roberto took the job might come into fruition now he is fully realising his tactical plans (the defensive rot was happening at the end of last season notably the Palace, Saints games) And I don't understand on the back of that why he said we were defensively sound when he announced his plans this summer of signing 4 attacking players

We are supposed to believe that RM is possibly a better judge of talent than other managers otherwise we are never going to be able to really challenge the rich teams.

If Henen had been identified as a really good gamble why would we only go to £1.5 million?

Do you honestly find it so hard to believe that RM may have been restricted by severe caps on his spending that he may have broken if he could?

The Lukaku signing is a different animal. It gave our theatre impressario Chairman some razzamatazz and has apparently pulled the chair from under a lot of his critics. Maybe some overspending on the marquee signing has led to further financial restrictions elsewhere.

I don't think we offered the £8M United wanted for no other reason than we didn't have the money

We will never compete with the big boys when it comes to transfer windows whilst Uncle Cyril's nephew remains at the helm but it does get frustrating when clubs like Swansea, QPR and fucking Hull are splashing the cash and a club with our history and stature always seems to be scraping the barrel and penny pinching, oh well.

Can I remind you that we are paying the best football in years and will do very well again this season.

Look at the last three games against Arsenal, for example: weÂ’ve been fantastic! Normally, we get battered every year.

Our defensive problems are a complete overreaction. A few stupid mistakes and fitness has cost us. These things are easily sorted.

Enjoy our football, enjoy Europe & get behind the team and management.

Sure, more numbers would have been nice to help with Europe but for those doom-mongers among you I ask this: How long is it since we went through a summer transfer window without selling one of our most marketable players? I think that is the most pertinent signal of intent in my opinion.

Three poor results (one terrible goals against column), three patchy performances but too early to label it the end of the world. Leicester will score against most at home this season, Arsenal will beat most at home and at least draw with most away, and Chelsea will beat most easily home or away.

I am not ignoring the poor play and the inexcusable mistakes, but I am choosing not to extrapolate them in the most negative way just yet. Three good performances / results in the next three games and it will all seem like just a bad dream.

It's really frustrating that A) we wouldn't pay the extra 1.5m to sign him on a full time contract and B) Why would we want to take the kid on to develop him and than have to pay Olympikiaos a ridiculous amount to sign him and C) What do we gain in developing another player who we won't even get in out first team this season!

It's possible that Everton have a strict spending cap in place. It's certainly been there in past years. From my view though, things seem to be a little more flexible now but I have no more information that anyone else.

What I do know, however, is that buying young players is generally seen as a great investment but you have to get them at the right price to justify the risk. If our scouts genuinely thought Henen had a great chance to be worth £6 million in 2 or 3 years, they would be stupid not to spend £3 million now. I'm thinking they must have had doubts about his future potential and decided to hold on to that money to put into a less risky investment. January is only 4 months away and the money will still be there.

I am fed up of people telling me how made-up I should be that we haven't had to sell to buy this summer.

The facts are that we sold Fellaini, Jelavic and even Anichebe for far more money than we spent on permanent signings last summer, and we got a huge financial boost from TV revenue to boot.

We have effectively done the same this year as last (and before that, and before that) except the players were sold ahead of time and added a windfall to it to make a record signing.

We have not increased senior numbers and are reliant on ageing stalwarts, players overcoming serious injuries, and untried youngsters retaining form / coming good.

Not what I would call a statement of intent. How used we must be to being third rate in the transfer market if people are so excited that we have just about been second-rate this time.

Give it a rest man.

I too share your view that the Jags/Distin partnership is something of a problem. Always have done, ever since they were first paired up. Whether it’s insurmountable or not I’m not sure because I kind of got distracted by your expertly practiced impression of ’annoying pisscan in a pub wanting to put the world to rights, when everyone else in there just wants a quiet drink without some gobshite machine-gunning flem into their face’

Firstly, you can’t just make your point and then leave it at that. Instead, you have to stick around for dear life like a 5 hair holding winnit on Brian Blessed’s arse wig. It’s just constant streams of nothingness coming at you all day long.

Jim Bennings: 22.06
I’m walking up the stairs..slowly, like Michael Myers because...well...i’m in no rush and have nothing much better to do anyway.

Jin Bennings: 22.07
At the top of the stairs. Carpet still in fairly good condition considering it’s age.

Jim Bennings: 22.08
Halfway down the stairs

Jim Bennings: 22.09
Reached the bottom of the stairs. Don’t know whether to head to the kitchen or the living room. Will update when I have decided.

Then there’s the whole spoilt little shit who never got what he wanted for Xmas syndrome:

’Ooooh thank you soooo much grannywanny. I love you sooooo m....whoa, whoa, whoa. What... is...this? A playstation 3? Playstation pissing 3? You can fuck right off Gran. No way am I prepared to accept such a low quality gift. Did Doc Brown bring the Delorean round and transport us back to Victorian times when I wasn’t looking? Did he shit as like! We aren’t living in a Poor House, lobbing 1/2 a pint of gruel down our gobs. You get a state pension. Put it to fucking use. I demand you take this piece of crap back and substitute it with something of superior standing, this instant, you
semi-immobilised, fully incontinent, torrents of talc twinned with imminent death smelling arl skinflint. Sharpish!! C’moooon! Shuffling along like some kind of stop-motion skeleton from a Ray Harryhausen film isn’t gonna get this shit sorted out any quicker. Sooner you get your arse to Argos, sooner you can be back dislodging fishbones from your throat you Tales From The Crypt looking old crone.....Mum. Mum. You won’t beliiiieeeeve what Granny grot bags got me. Seriously, you’ll piss yourself’.

For example:

"Where’s our friggin defenders?? We have FOUR CENTRAL DEFENDERS."

Which most would have said was enough a little over a week ago. Now you’re wanting the manager to panic and go all out to bring in a player he probably won’t have been tracking to date, purely on the basis of a bad defensive run he probably see’s as no more than a momentary blip?

"We are prepared to use our last loan up on a player who Martinez has already told us will only go into the youth team"

Even if that happened, how is it ’our last loan’? There’s only been Atsu loaned domestically and none from any other league. You don’t have to stop off at Sesame Street to get some green git dossing in a bin to assist you in adding those numbers up surely?

"First of all I can’t believe he is not out there today trying to bring a central defender in"

1) How do you know he hasn’t been.
2) Did he not say yesterday that he wouldn’t be looking to add any defenders to the squad today? The fact you chose to hold out hope regardless isn’t Roberto’s doing is it?

"If loves Cleverley so much and we are now hearing it was a permanent deal for the United man, then why not make him a priority ahead of Besic and why spend so much on Gareth Barry?"

Maybe it had something to do with the fact that the new United manager said he wanted to assess every member of his squad before deciding who he would be prepared to let leave? Maybe it was simply because he found out Besic was available at a bargain price and couldn’t pass it up? Maybe he thought he enough midfield numbers prior to Barkley and Pienaar being ruled out through injury? There’s any number of possible reasons other than the incompetences you’re insinuating.

"No decent back up goalie either"

Diddums.

"Why if he rates Cleverley so much did he splash so much money on a 3 year contract for a 33 year old Gareth Barry?

Why sign Besic?

Why no central defender??"

Honestly. It’s like that bit in Carrie where her mother’s warning of ’they’re all going to laugh at you’ reverberates around her head, repeatedly, for what seems like fucking ages. The same words over and over and over again. I can actually imagine you wearing the same wild eyed look....hopefully sans the pigs blood splattered prom dress though.

Lucky you don’t share the same powers of telekenisis as the tampon ignorant teen because Roberto’s head would have gone all ’Scanners’ and been splattered all over Bill’s office walls and nigh-on mythological fax machine many hours ago.

When we have broken our transfer record and nearly doubled it (despite the drib and drab payment method) and not stealthily clawed it back through selling a major asset of the team (or Rodwell) then that is good news. I'm not fully convinced Lukaku will be the real deal but I'm happy that just for once, the club have backed the manager on this one and spent the money. Would you rather have had 7 X £4m players? Valid point I guess but I can't see there being £100m in the 'warchest' to flesh out the squad that everyone would like it to be done. Maybe it is second rate, but when you've seen third rate so many seasons on the spin, I'm thankful for small mercies.

I’ve seen some hilarious, world-class rants & jibes on ToffeeWeb, but that one is up there.

Thanks for that mate - had me in stitches.

Also, we had some important veterans sign longer-term deals in Howard and Baines. How anyone can say this was a poor window needs their head fucking testing; the squad is in the best shape for years.

Lukaku + McCarthy = Fellaini + Jelavic + Anichebe + £20 million windfall bonus.

That is 41.5 million = 60 million.

Can you see the slight discrepancy???

Just because they have done it over a 12-month period we have still sold players to pay for those who have replaced them.

You may be dazzled by the club record fee but some of us can see how easily affordable it was at this moment in time.

Okay there are some minor comings and goings to factor in, but the Board have once again neglected to put extra into the playing staff in an effort to actually win something this year.

They will happily continue with their 'minimal expenditure x fingers crossed for a minor sporting miracle' approach until something happens to make someone prepared to meet their inflated price for the club.

The exciting thing is the likes of Galloway, Browning, McAleny, Ledson, and Garbutt are likely to get some first XI playing time in the not too distant future too. HereÂ’s hoping most of these guys can have a similar impact as Stones / Barkley from last season.

CanÂ’t wait to see Oviedo on the field again sometime soon too.

ThereÂ’s a lot to be optimistic about.

Based on the number of games weÂ’ve got IMO, it would have seemed logical to have an extra body in..On the little IÂ’ve seen of him I rate him over Alcaraz any day of the week. Hopefully Browning will be able to step-up and make a name for himself just like Stones did last season.

We were supposed to have a surplus from last seasons dealings + the TV money, yet we couldn’t afford Cleverley, we couldn’t go higher than £8M for Shawcross...Damn those other operating costs, damn them all to hell... cuts to Charlton Heston on his knees in despair.

This reality check has come as a bit of a shock to most of us; on the live forum, ItÂ’s like the NoahÂ’s Ark on a Saturday night, people fighting with each other over nothing much, knocking beer and tables over.

By the way, re-signing players, upping wages, and offering contracts to the youngsters happens every year. To lump them in with transfer activity is really stretching it. This is probably the first year we have had press-conferences to celebrate some of them though.

BillÂ’s Â’smoke and mirrorsÂ’ PR machine appears to be working very effectively.

Overall, itÂ’s been a much more positive last year as an Everton fan in a long long time.

IÂ’m glad we tied things up early rather than doing everything on Sky Sports Day.

On the little weÂ’ve seen Besic seems to play with a level of arrogance in his own abilities that could be his making, but only if he reigns it in! (Saturday was just stupidity) IÂ’d hazard a guess that the reason weÂ’ve seen so little of him so far is his cavalier attitude thatÂ’s going to be be punished in the EPL in way of conceding goals or yellow and red cards. IÂ’m thinking of the Celta Vigo game when he could have got sent off for a OTT challenge on Nolito. While itÂ’s great having a hard man in the team, you just canÂ’t get away with those kinds of challenges these days.

But yes, I agree that he could definitely become a defensive prospect some time in the future if he works on certain parts of his game.

Only 1½ seasons ago we had Phil fucking Neville starting for us in central midfield! Think about that for a minute.

Well it doesnÂ’t, because if you take this transfer window in tandem with the last we have still sold players to buy others, and Ross Barkley was only saved because of a bumper deal from TV rights.

So things have not really changed at all. The Board are still unwilling or unable to invest at potentially pivotal points so once the extra TV money has all been absorbed by every player upping their share of the pot we will quickly be back to selling our brightest prospects to bring in a couple of lesser lights to pad out the squad.

I had hoped for more this summer, something that would really convince me that the Board would do all that they could to fulfill a reasonable ambition for the club on the pitch in the near future. I think the performances will improve from what we have seen so far, but over the season I expect that the squad we have will really struggle to mount challenges in both the league and one of the cup competitions - which is the minimum we should be aiming for - purely due to a relatively small lack of numbers (i.e. one that could have been satisfied with perhaps 3-4 additional players at £10-15 million in additional transfer/loan fees).

I would only have been satisfied with much more in the way of transfer dealings. For me, that could have included shipping out some more of the marginalised senior players to replace them with better players (Osman, Pienaar, Kone and Gibson may be decent players but there must be less risky / younger alternatives to be found somewhere). In short, it would have had to have been an amazing transfer window to exceed my expectations because with the money available and the managerÂ’s positive talk I EXPECTED a good one. If other people are more than satisfied they either think it WAS amazing or just have less ambition than I do.

I know our board has itÂ’s faults, but IÂ’m sure if youÂ’d have been told we were signing Lukaku. EtoÂ’o, Barry, Besic, Atsu and Galloway without selling any established stars at the start of the summer youÂ’d have been over the moon. Sure, it would have been nice if we could have bought in a couple of players yesterday (I still think we should have got in an established centre back in) but until we become uber rich benefactor we have to make the most of what weÂ’ve got.

A realistic complaint on this forum in the past is that lesser teams like Stoke and Swansea have out spent us and this has irked many, as it should do! Out the best of the rest teams, weÂ’ve spent as much as anyone this summer, so for that the board must be applauded. Nothings going to change overnight but weÂ’re certainly going in the right direction.

It just isn’t good, very good, amazing, exciting or anything else that means anything more than basically satisfactory. It is essentially the same as most of those others over the last 20 years because any money spent was readily available through previous player sales and a £20 million windfall.

If you bothered to read what I had posted you would have seen the extra stuff I mentioned that would have really got my juices flowing. 3 or 4 addtional (ie, not just refilling the places left by loanees and the likes of Gueye and Vellios) decent senior players who would challenge current first choices for their place from the start of the season; moving on (for small profits were possible) players who are either really in decline or just huge fitness risks and replacing them with younger versions who are capable of 90 minutes week in week out for large parts of the season so we can practice decent squad rotation and minimise / cover the injuries we are likely to acquire by mounting a challenge on 4 fronts.

Yes EtoÂ’o is potentially a bonus, but if Kone doesnÂ’t ever fully recover and Lukaku gets injured then he is it as far as strikers go. Do you really want to gamble that he can handle being the main man for a long run of games. Most big clubs try to have 4 good options, we have one youngster, one veteran and one currently unclassified.

The same can be said of our central midfield (which performs a greater defensive role than many others are asked to). Some reinforcement in the shape of Besic but is it really enough if Gibson relapses and the years catch up with Barry all of a sudden?

It is the same story in defence (age/ fitness threaten 2 out of 4 at least) and in goal to a greater or lesser degree so it could be argued that we still havenÂ’t done enough to strengthen enough of the spine of the team.

’Unrealistic’, I hear you shout, and that is exactly my point. The ’reality’ you cling to is the one determined by our continually unambitious Board who have proven yet again that they are unwilling to take a calculated risk when presented with a genuine opportunity to catapult the team into the echelons of those who enjoy the benefits that frequent European qualification can bring. This was a prime opportunity to strike. Clubs have shed excess players and we weren’t in a position to take advantage of it. By next year all the prices will have gone up another notch and the £20 million extra won’t go as far as it would have this year.

On the subject of Shane Duffy, whilst I am surprised that any further reduction in senior squad players was permitted at such a late stage without apparent effort to replace him with better, I am not that bothered that he was allowed to go and I 100% donÂ’t believe that he could have changed the results of the first three games. In fact I believe he is less capable overall than either the erratic Jagielka or the slightly-less-age-defying Distin. He may not have replicated Jags comedy of errors in the Chelsea game but I still believe Costa would have relished in exploiting his inherent weaknesses.

That said, I do think that he would have proved useful at some stage of the season against lesser opposition in the early stages of the League Cup, or when we were down to bare bones and others needed resting for more important games. I think it is evident he was at the bottom of the rankings of our senior central defenders, and the versatility of Besic and Hibbert coupled with the imminent emergence of junior players may have meant the manager only expected to use him a handful of times. In that event it would have been grossly unfair to keep him hanging on when he had the opportunity to make a proper career for himself elsewhere.

So whilst there may have been a different slant on the same subject, it certainly doesnÂ’t mean they are opposing views or that my first post meant I couldnÂ’t disagree with the thrust of your later comments.

Lukaku for Lukaku, Barry for Barry, EtoÂ’o for Traore, Atsu for Deulofeu. So that is two like for like and two that most people are viewing as upgrades. Fair enough but no more than I expected considering it was necessary to pretty much remain where we were for most of last season. Closer scrutiny reveals Barry is even further into his Â’twilight yearsÂ’ and EtoÂ’o replaces a much younger man. Is older Barry just as good? Well he wonÂ’t get better, but he could get worse. A younger Â’BarryÂ’ is what we needed ideally (if one could be located). Old EtoÂ’o versus young Traore is a moot point because Traore was never actually made available, but whether we could have got another promising young striker in on loan is debatable. Still count Samuel as a plus though. All we really know about Atsu so far is that he is potentially the best winger we have this season.

God how I would have complained if we were relying on Darron Gibson to cover both Barry and McCarthy. Besic was a simple necessity even before Barkley got injured and I wuld have welcomed another mobile central defender being brought in today because I think being able to rotate those positions regularly will be key to our success this season. I would rather use Osman for an advanced midfield role exclusively.

Galloway is a complete unknown quantity for me. Not yet ready for first team duties and unproven at this level so no, I am not that excited about him. Would have been more excited by a Martins-Indi or an Alderweireld to be honest and I canÂ’t tell you much about them apart from the fact they are both established internationals with a lot of their career ahead of them.

If you want to fixate on what we spend relative to the likes of Stoke and Swansea then that is up to you. If you take net spend over the last two years I am not that sure we would outstrip them anyway, and that needs to be considered because there was obviously an intention to carry over the money we raised from player sales last summer as long as possible to generate something with the wow factor this year. You seem content to be contending for best of the rest, whereas I think we had an opportunity to cement ourselves in the top five with a trophy to boot.

We all know the boards inadequacies but thereÂ’s been a sea change this summer..Remember when we could only afford to have one player earning 70k a week, so we sold peanut for peanuts (forgive the pun) because Arteta was valued more highly and we couldnÂ’t afford to give Peanaar parity on earnings. While thereÂ’s a lot of merit in your points I donÂ’t think youÂ’ve put enough onus on the players weÂ’ve retained; Barkley, Stones and Coleman. Now weÂ’ve got several players earning those kind of wages.

Even if the money was saved over from other transfers to give a Â’wowÂ’ factor this summer..Personally IÂ’d prefer us to use the extra TV revenue to get our house in order so weÂ’re in the black with the banks making us more attractive to a potential buyer. And we can build year upon year (albeit slowly in a sustainable way) rather than going on spending spree that could mean we end up doing a Leeds or Pompey when we donÂ’t get that fourth place.

Also you might notice that twice McCarthy struggled to keep up with his man and they scored. No cover in front of back four on several occasion causing the centre backs to come forwards to block shots, one got deflected. Jags missed judged the the 1st one trying the offside trap and Besic well if you didnÂ’t see that your blind. Individual mistakes happen.

Three clean sheets coming up. Some of you have another look at the game. Turn the sound down it helps.

Right back cover
Centre half young, aggressive and ball playing.
Creative midfielder who can see the openings that our already overstocked forwards can create.

ItÂ’s actually funny to read some of the threads over the years. Two years ago (after the cup semi-final), people wanted Shamie sold. Last year it was Naismith no look at the threads.

I believe Gibson is a great passer of the ball and sees the spaces who would link up the play. Play him instead of Barry. That still leaves a very dodgy centre-half pairing and very little options to try something new.

I fear for our season especially with those extra Europa league games.

Having said that, IÂ’m sure weÂ’ll make it. We have to see the first half dozen matches as our pre-season - the defence will get their legs back ere long and things will get back to normal.

Now thereÂ’s confidence for you !

Playing Besic centre halve is just a mental thought.

He is new to the Premier League and by all accounts from reports that fans in Hungary have said, he has struggled with discipline and apparently is a bit of a Marco Boogers character (nut-job who used to play for West Ham for those who donÂ’t know)

He has played in a poor standard league in Hungary and he will only be given starts in Europe and the league cup youÂ’d imagine. Martinez loves Barry and McCarthy so heÂ’s never going to break that partnership up unless it is forced upon by injury.

That makes it all the more bizarre why Martinez was chasing Cleverley yesterday. There is clearly somebody he isnÂ’t quite convinced about in that central midfield, and itÂ’s either Gibson will never be the same influence because of his injuries, or Barkley will be out longer than we are led to believe.

We should have been going out there doing our best to bring in a capable central defender.

There ainÂ’t no pressure on them to perform at the back now, Howard knows he wonÂ’t get dropped for Robles no matter how he performs. Likewise Jagielka and Distin, both know they are the first choice pairing, Martinez rates them both a little too much.

Hopefully Gibson can get match fit soon. I have always rated him personally. Whether he gets back to what he was only time will tell.

I am a little mystified in the sale of Duffy though. I presume RM just felt he was not going to make it however with the Europa coming up I would have thought he would have been useful.

We seem to have far more attacking opportunities/instincts now than early last season which is great to watch.

May be better for Martinez to sacrifice a little of our attacking instinct, get him to play to our defensive strengths rather than getting our defenders to adjust to Martinez style in the short term whilst he tries to find players to fit into his system. Might help plug the gaps in defence in the short term. Good thing is we wonÂ’t play Chelsea every week

Yes, judging by the reports, I think theyÂ’ve discovered that Galloway is a class above the U21s.

Also, now that Tylas Browning is no longer in awe of the senior players, he will continue to improve at a rapid rate.

Since returning from Colchester, Garbutt has been a revelation. A new star for the England U21s, he should have a good future.

Not sure what to do with Stones and Besic. Two very talented lads with one slightly tougher than the other. Both need to learn that Premier League players will rob you of the ball if you dwell on it. Standards have risen and there is no longer room for fancy stuff in defensive areas. Hopefully they will bring a little more discipline and urgency into their game but some things are easier said than done. Two very exciting young prospects nevertheless.

It was too much to hope for last years last day drama but taking a step back its been a decent window. Martinez needs to sort the defense out sharpish and best way to start imo is giving the captain a rest and playing Stones and Distin in the middle next game.

Would also not be a bad idea to change the captain at some point.

Harold - I think there is some truth in the statement that scoring goals is the hardest thing in football. It is quite possible to create a strong defensive unit while caryring some less talented players, but to score goals in the top flight, you do need top class players.

I just hope we can start to show the strengths we had last season and get this season going. Everyone seems to be talking about dropping Jags, and he has made a lot of errors in our first 3 games... I just hope Roberto knows whatÂ’s required to stop leaking goals (10 in 3 games!).

I know many of you wouldÂ’ve liked to have done a Hull yesterday and brought in 4-5 players (11 overall which is mental) but big, established clubs donÂ’t do that do they? ItÂ’s the perennial strugglers who are desperate to survive in the prem that use each window as though itÂ’s some sort of manic jumble sale.

We did make an effort to sign Nastasic and Cleverley yesterday Nastasic turned us down and united refused to loan us Cleverley as they wanted an unrealistic transfer fee. We also enquired about Shawcross and another defender. When youÂ’re a top club you just donÂ’t go out and buy any old flotsam thatÂ’s lying around there on the cheap. ThatÂ’s what the likes of Hull, WHU, QPR, Stoke do and thatÂ’s why they are mid-table, or lower, teams. This isnÂ’t football manager, this isnÂ’t FIFA2015, this is the real world where the stakes are incredibly high, managers have to know exactly what type of players they want/need, fees, contracts, agents etc..all have to be sorted.

I’m only writing this as I’ve noticed that the usual Martinez haters have been out in force yesterday and today with their usual bile. One in particular who shall remain unnamed but who’s initials are the same as a well known whisky. Posting every 5 minutes saying "I wanted Ben Arfa, I wanted Nastasic, I wanted Tom, Dick and Harry etc..." Roberto is taking us down, Roberto is clueless, where’s the money gone, I’m upset, I’m angry boo hoo," — Well you know what pal? You are not the fucking manager. You don’t make the decisions. You are just like the rest of us, a mere fan (well, I hope you are) who is entitled to your opinions but ffs give it a rest will ya?

Sorry for the rant but as some of you feel entitled to criticise Martinez I also feel entitled to defend him, when necessary, against some of the hate filled, unfair comments I sometimes see on here.

COYB

Of course come transfer day the inclination is to be greedy and wish for A/B/C to be signing, but the real world ainÂ’t like that for the varied reasons Colin states.

Two points from three games isnÂ’t ideal but its very early doors in the season. Performances havenÂ’t been terrible; and weÂ’ll only get better.

I agree we needed defensive cover (or replacements) but, apparently, we tried with Shawcross, Nastasic and Rolando but none of them came off. What are we supposed to do? Just grab any available player to satisfy the thirst of a few desperate fans? It doesnÂ’t work that way. Cleverley was another player we tried to get, no to everyoneÂ’s fancy but we tried. HeÂ’s not a player I particularly admire but some comments last night were comparing him to some League 2 journeyman.

The signings of Lukaku and Barry have been criticised, Besic criticised for a rookie mistake, AtsuÂ’s presence questioned due to the ACON etc... I know fans are fickle but the window is closed now so letÂ’s close ranks and get behind the manager and the team .............until January at least.

Missing out on Cleverley is a plus as far as I am concerned as he is not the type of player IMO who will improve the squad. I really wish we could compete for top players but, as this does not seem to be the case, we will be also-rans again for the foreseeable future. The gap is actually widening and I am a bit concerned that the pack who have been behind us for years are now closing.

Players like Distin, EtoÂ’o and Barry will need to be replaced in perhaps January or definitely the end of the season. We have a few decent kids IMO in Stones, Garbutt and Besic waiting in the wings. None of the others have stepped up sufficiently to threaten the first team. Hopefully we will have Kone, Oviedo and Gibson back soon?

I cannot fathom the Henen situation. Why are we taking him on loan? We seem to be helping his development to aid Olympiakos in the future. This is quite a conundrum. We have kept him at Finch Farm all expenses paid without anything in return. Unless I have missed something!!

I cannot however condone the vitriolic diatribe aimed in RobertoÂ’s direction and some of our fellow TWÂ’ers probably realise in the cold light of day, that they were out of order, and would hopefully retract any such statements, or by way of mitigation apologise.

What was far more frustrating, was the sighting of Riquelme with the strawberry ice-cream, and the kebab eating Moutinho look-alike, have apparently been abducted by Aliens, and according to NASA and the UFO Society reports, are unlikely, if at all to be seen at least till January.

WE SIGNED SAMUEL ETOÂ’O!!!

ThatÂ’s enough for me. Bring on the rest of the season and all comers in the EL.

There are still some positions where we need strengthen, we all no where they are, unfortunately we only get some much to spend per window/season.

Squad wise RobertoÂ’s had far more catching up to do than the 4 CL clubs & United (just look at what theyÂ’ve spent this window).

We progressed significantly & IÂ’m confident the areas that need strengthening will be addressed over the coming 2 seasons.

Yes, adding a defender was important, but more important was re-signing the core group of players including Baines, Stones, Barkley and Coleman.

The wage bill at Everton has gone up quite a bit compared to a couple of seasons ago (to me, that’s where the money went). But I’m really impressed that in his time with the club Roberto Martinez has only lost one first-team player (and that was Fellaini for £28 million).

Now, similar to Falcao and Welbeck and Ben Arfa, clubs have had all summer to sign players, the deadline is the deadline – no extensions, if you can’t get it done by 11pm on 1 September 2014 then tough titties. Think of the millions that would have been saved – in Falcao’s wages alone!

Wished weÂ’d grabbed Ben Arfa mind you, even at 11:10 pm!

It is going to be an interesting few months but hopefully an exciting one as we wonÂ’t come up against the likes of Chelsea every week. The plus point was definitely EtoÂ’o who looked very lively when he came on and Lukaku definitely has competition for his place now.

For years we moaned about OFM being too negative which is why we had a good defensive record and I am glad were looking to be more offensive but maybe against other top 6 teams we should look to play the 3 in central midfield to start.

No more Manc cast-offs, no more young Evertonians to Mancunia, no more sly, underhand, backstabbing deals between our manager and theirs. ItÂ’s game on now. So... letÂ’s get ready to rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrumble.

But I am careful what I wish for; I suggested 2 or 3 more additions would have made the transfer window much better for me and suggested something like an extra £10-15 million could have made that happen. I wasn’t demanding Champions League, just a really good chance to be able to sustain a challenge on at least two fronts to keep the club on the radar of potential supporters, sponsors and investors.

According to our resident expert, Colin G, it seems that the manager was of the same mind and effort was spent trying to bring in 2 first team ready individuals. I donÂ’t have too much of a problem that they failed if the effort was genuine but it would have been better overall if they had succeeded.

DonÂ’t care about the details for now, but is it official that Henen is with us for the season?

As for the CB position, could it be possible that Martinez is giving them a vote of confidence and believes in them, hence bringing no-one in? They did after all have the third-best EPL defensive record last season and I personally am not ready to give up on them yet.

Also, in Stones we have one of the best young CBs in the league and the MK Dons manager stated that Galloway has the potential to go to the very top. I donÂ’t think weÂ’re as weak there as some would have us believe.

Get a grip people and look at how far we have come over the last 12 months. Jeeesh!

And against Chelsea and Arsenal last season, Everton conceded no goals to them at home. (No wonder Everton had so many clean sheets.) This season, it is 8 goals conceded to them at home.

Must be approaching a record on TW surely...

My favourite (Of all time - anything IÂ’ve ever read) was this gem ; "You canÂ’t compare Ferry to Hitler." Said in all seriousness. You had to be there.

YouÂ’ve given us a few stats but what you take from it isnÂ’t necessarily true.

I assume youÂ’re trying to say that EvertonÂ’s defense is worse than last season. I could counter that by saying itÂ’s not and that Arsenal and Chelsea have better attacks.

If you think our defense is worse then itÂ’s better just to say so and highlight where players made mistakes than quote stats based on three games.

The goals Everton conceded against both Arsenal and Chelsea were bordering on criminal. Jagielka and Distin were not just short of half a yard, they were half asleep.

I have to agree for once with Jamie Carragaher, who said that a good defender has to be paranoid and anticipate a threat even before it exists and happens - not when they are half asleep, they canÂ’t.

As Shane says you cant really compare one season from another for many reasons, even Â’Â’dame fortuneÂ’ can be different from one year to the next!

So that’s it then, despite a rumoured surplus from last year’s dealings, plus the latest tranche of TV money, we wouldn’t go higher than £8M for Shawcross and who knows how much for whoever else. I suppose it’s one of the pieces of collateral damage from Saturday’s loss (along with the ever pervasive ’Other Operating Costs’... and the Stoke Chairman: "They’re desperate – bung another couple of Million on.")

Looks like Roberto and his coaching staff have got to sort it out Internally, by playing the players they have in a way that mitigated the fact that Jagielka and Distin (and maybe others) are not in the best form of their lives. As you canÂ’t turn back the clock or wave a magic wand over poor form, it seems to me that the only way is to limit the number of times the defence gets put under pressure. Limit the number of tickets the opposition is allowed to buy in the raffle that is our back 5.

Possession is one method; Roberto is rightly Â’bigÂ’ on this. They canÂ’t score if they havenÂ’t got the ball... and we canÂ’t score if we donÂ’t have it. But, as we have seen, this season and last, us (and Spurs) having 60% possession or more can mean nothing.

Forget the first 3 mins and the 2-goal start. Yes, Chelsea had all of the possession for 3 mins and did something with it, however lucky with offsides and whatever else they may have been; look at the other 87mins...

For most of the first half, we bossed the possession, we scored first, right on half-time, which is supposed to be good. In the second half they scored 4 to our 2. You can say that not many sides can play that way – they neither have the players to play that way, nor the money to buy the likes of Diego Costa.

Now reported on Sky Sports that a season long loan deal for Cleverley at Villa has been approved. Presumably we are too close a rival of Manure for them to strengthen us without making us pay through the nose for it.

Kevin Rowlands (471) - "As for the CB position, could it be possible that Martinez is giving them a vote of confidence and believes in them, hence bringing no-one in? They did after all have the third-best EPL defensive record last season and I personally am not ready to give up on them yet.

Also, in Stones we have one of the best young CBs in the league and the MK Dons manager stated that Galloway has the potential to go to the very top. I donÂ’t think weÂ’re as weak there as some would have us believe."

All well and good except it doesnÂ’t really tally with Colin GÂ’s assurances that up to three deals for first-team-ready senior CBs were looked at yesterday. Perhaps the players wonÂ’t hear about them and have their feelings hurt?

As it is, it is a time to regroup and have a thorough look at things to try to determine a root cause that can then be dealt with appropriately. That still may come down to just getting the same players to perform at the levels they have done before. I am always happy when the club look to strengthen the senior squad whenever possible, but not having been able to bring the right person in at the right price is not necessarily the end of the world.

Mark Hughes was only lauding him as the best defender in England on Sunday. Does anyone believe Stoke would have even considered a deal of £8M (the alleged bid offered) especially on deadline day? Phil McNulty said as much yesterday on the BBC. Put that story down to pure fantasy football!

I watched Chelsea play Burnley and thought Costa looked quite average. The Burnley defenders coped with him quite well, even though he scored a goal in a goal mouth scramble - but nothing special. But when Costa played against Jagielka and Distin they both made him look better than he really is. And that is going to be the problem when Jagielka and Distin face other strikers of average talent.

We get the stock stupid statements like ’Lukaku’s paid over instalments so that’s only really £6M spent’ which is all good apart from the fact it convenient ignores the fact that a) this is pretty much how an increasingly large %ge of transfers are working out (including Rooney and without a doubt Fellaini for instance) and b) regardless of what’s paid now, we do actually have to put aside the rest of the money so that it can be paid in the future.
Lukaku wasn’t £6M, it was £28M. Plus signing on fee. Plus agent fee. And that’s before we get to wages or related fees and bonuses.

Then we had this little gem from Si Cooper earlier in the feed...
"Lukaku + McCarthy = Fellaini + Jelavic + Anichebe + £20 million windfall bonus.
That is 41.5 million = 60 million."

Where to start?
First, how about we look at the ACTUAL signings in the last 3 windows...

Transfers Out: £41.5M
> Fellaini - £27.5M
> Jelavic - £6.5M
> Anichebe - £6M
> Duffy - £1.5M
> Gueye - Free
> Vellios - Free
> Heitinga - Free
> Bidwell - Free

Transfers In: £66.3M
Lukaku (loan fee of £3M?) + £28M
McCarthy - £13M
Kone - £6M
Besic - £4.8M
Galloway £3M?
Robles - £2M
Barry (loan fee of £1M?) £1M
McGeady - £1.5M
Stanek - £1M
Atsu (loan fee of £1M?)
EtoÂ’o - Free
Alcaraz - Free

This includes estimated loan fees out (but not in), but it doesnÂ’t include signing on fees or agents fees, which I think you can expect to add another 10% at least (and thatÂ’s being very conservative).
The net expenditure then looks to me more like £25-31M, which accounts for £20M of ’windfall’ cash and then some.

That’s not the end of the story mind, as we’ve not included the signing on fees and increased wages with new long term contracts for Barkley, Baines, Stones and Coleman - this could easily be another £3-5M for signing on fees.

Last but most definitely not least are wages. With increased deals for youth, some older proven players getting a fair whack (EtoÂ’o isnÂ’t really Â’freeÂ’ you know) and an overall increase in the quality of the first team squad and I guess youÂ’ll be looking at another 10-20% cost increase across the year of what is the real big bill.

Consider just for a minute an average weekly wage last year was c. £30k across our first team squad of 24 players plus the manager and you’re looking at £750k per week or £39M per year (not inc other staff or youth teams), then add another 10% to this for appearance fees and bonuses and you’re basically on your way to £45M. Push that to £35k p/week and you’re adding another £6-7M that has to be found.

The biggest issue I have with these statements however is the assumption that every pound coming in and then some should go out in transfer fees, often on players that arenÂ’t really going to improve what we have. This model may make some sense in the mythical world in which Chelsea and Man City do business (you know the one in which a business can routinely absorb more and more losses), but for most enterprises there needs to be some profit, at the very least to build a buffer and some flexibility ideally allowing us to do things that will advance the core business (bigger/updated stadia, training programs, etc).

I appreciate that footballÂ’s not quite like other businesses, but it does still have to obey some basic rules and ultimately IÂ’d much rather be like Arsenal than like Man City or Chelsea. These clubs have bought their trophies pure and simple in a manner which I think is fundamentally unfair and makes a mockery of the whole idea of the Premier League as a Â’sportingÂ’ competition. And I believe at some point the model they operate will be ruled out, ideally via a move to a capped expenditure system thatÂ’s similar to the NFL and in which extra income with tough penalties for infringement (e.g. points deductions).
As for those who operate beyond their means without a billionaire backer, well thereÂ’s plenty of examples showing what can happen when you follow that path - Leeds, Portsmouth, Rangers. Would you ever want Everton to gamble our survival and proud history for the chance of one season in the Champions League? I really wouldnÂ’t. When we succeed itÂ’ll be on our terms and all the sweeter for it. IMWT.

The only point IÂ’d pick up on is your belief that the "model" will move towards capped expenditure. I donÂ’t think it will. Firstly, I assume you mean it would be multilateral, rather than the EPL having an outbreak of collective conscience, otherwise thereÂ’d be an exodus to whatever league decides to ignore it. (And the rest of Europe is jealous of the broadcast revenues the EPL generates).

Secondly, as FFP has shown, it is actually designed to protect the interests of the already-established elite clubs, by making it harder for the likes of Everton to break into the top competition, even if Bill suddenly decided to sell up to a more capable set up. That ship has sailed.

A cost / salary cap would also mean clubs making a profit (unless the broadcast and sponsorship deals were to drop - and would Sky / BT suddenly reduce subscription costs?) That in turn would mean clubs paying tax (!) or dividends (!!!) or lead to wealthy owners becoming even wealthier!

Maybe thatÂ’s why olÂ’ Bill is hanging in there...

I was indeed there. It was a little strange when one poster started on Paul, but it was quite amusing. Many strange things get posted on the live forum, it tends to be no holds barred. He is a big boy and did not really need assistance, although some was offered by myself and others. I believe emotions can get the better of most of us sometimes. I guess it is what sets ToffeeWeb apart from the more mundane sites out there. Some call it banter, although I hear that banter is to be outlawed!! Whatever next.

#1 priority – Buy Lukaku from Chelsea (even if it used up the bulk of the transfer budget);
#2: Sign Barry;
#3: Re-sign all the important players to new contracts.

Save some funds after the above 3 priorities in case a good deal came along (and EtoÂ’o was a good deal for many reasons).

All-in-all, a very well thought-out plan which was well executed (in my opinion).

I know it is a gross simplification (looking at the headline buys and the players they replaced) but at least I admitted that there were other deals to consider; you have completely discounted the increased revenue the club has received recently for doing nothing other than playing in the EPL.

We could go back and forth trying to examine the intricacies of the clubÂ’s finances, but what is the point of that when the only point I was interested in making was that I donÂ’t think there has been a paradigm shift in the way the club is being run. Do you think your figures prove otherwise?

I feel, on the evidence of our first three games, that we needed another centre-back, but in terms of numbers we are well covered. If the four centre-backs we have can up their game to the levels they reached for the majority of last season, then we will do well. Long term we need to make additions, but if deals for the right players were not possible then it was probably right not to panic buy on the back of three disappointing results.

If Martinez can learn from these first three games, drill the defence over the international break, and avoid playing a high line against the top teams, then we can overcome our early season difficulties.