Everton spurn chance to extend their unbeaten run

Having the most possession is one thing, scoring the most goals is what counts.

The play was too slow and yet again we have gone 1-0 up and then for some reason gone on the back foot – just like every game when we go in front. Martinez is obviously aware of it, so should know something needs to be done about it.

Poor subs – Pienaar should have come on to create some threat down the left. Desperately disappointing.

Too many players below par, too many individual errors, Howard’s attempt to save their first goal was nothing short of embarrassing, Distin for the second is just poor.....

The man is deluded and his predictable style of play has fucked our season up already. And please don’t let tell me anyone we will finish 4th, win the FA Cup or win the Europa League because, believe me, it won’t happen. Quite simply, we don’t open teams up and we don’t create enough... End of.

After the goal, we were second to every ball and caught in possession.

Terrible performance

The general negativity about this loss – the idea that Roberto is tactically inept or that we are too slow for the passing game or any combination of that, is so OTT it’s ridiculous. We made some defensive errors and paid dearly for them. If Naismith had been fit, we would have had more penetration. Move on.

What a load of bollocks!!!

Besic was our best player.

His positivity is one of the things I like about Martinez but there is a point when discretion might be expected to step in. There is nobody else that I would like to have in his snazzy shoes but he needs to be a touch more flexible and thoughtful, both on and off the pitch, in my opinion, for what it’s worth.

There were very few dissenting voices on the starting eleven that I came across. The first quarter-of-an-hour seemed to prove the gaffer to be right on ever part of the pitch.

It’s very hard indeed to legislate for clownish amateurish mistakes from so-called ’seasoned’ pros like Howard and Barry, but I for one was deeply disappointed by the way that we were set up and the lack of ability to adapt to suit the nature of the game –and that, quite frankly, is down to the gaffer. Like other teams this season, Spurs just stood off and had a good look while we passed it around.

Osman should have started; Sam should not have started. Barkley has to play in the middle. Seamus needs support ahead of him.

Barry had his worst game to date for us and should have been taken off at half-time. He was clearly not match fit and there is a worrying tendency under Bobby to bring players back too early. Thank God he subbed Mirallas although McGeady continued as if the final whistle has not been blown at Wolfsburg...

So disappointing after a first quarter-of-an-hour that would have had any potential opponent quaking in their boots.

Bobby, we absolutely must buy a new keeper as soon as possible – you have not given us adequate cover and so we have to play a liability week-in & week-out – and you must be more flexible off and on the pitch.

Change and adapt your set ups and formations and post-match conversations so that they more-accurately reflect how the game is going and how it went, please.

As for his covering, he did all the running for an unfit Barry. That is not his fault. He played well and was close to being our best player. Funny old game that makes so many see things so differently.

Either Barkley or Eto’o, Roberto, otherwise they just get in each others way. Please don’t ruin Barkley by playing him on the wings. The lad is a central midfield player, full stop. Don’t waste his talent, please.

You say that Besic is not Premier standard; if so, then playing him is tactically inept.

You then say Barry was not fit enough to play; if so, then playing him is tactically inept.

Again, Barkley is not a winger, so playing him there is tactically inept.

Finally, you say we made some defensive errors and paid dearly for them. Well, we made those errors because the players are "encouraged" (forced) to play the ball out from the back at every occasion, regardless. That is tactically inept.

Based on what you said, I think that proves that Martinez can be tactically inept and it is definitely not OTT to accuse him of being so.

Also, having no natural right winger had a negative effect on Seamus Coleman’s attacking threat. Must beat Hull City now and the upcoming home games v QPR and Stoke City.

Today was very disappointing as we just looked really average against a team lacking in confidence. I am concerned that Roberto, like our previous coach, will shoehorn certain players into the side out of position.

I thought Besic had a decent game.

We were not out muscled... we were beaten by a team who were quick, direct and clinical.

I love possession football. I hate our wide players having possession midway into the opponent’s half only for the ball to be back with Howard within seconds.

I don’t like us playing silly buggers with the ball on the edge of our box and getting caught in possession.

I don’t like us giving away soft free kicks on the edge of our box.

I DO like us having one individual in a blue shirt who can make an incisive forward pass. Hands up if you know of one...
We are an average, reasonably entertaining team. Top four? Dear God!

He is special.
Very special

Howard needs replacing with immediate effect. He has too many of these pathetic howlers in his armoury. Costs us too many games and has done for years now.

Distin is over the hill should’ve been given the boot after the pathetic semi-final against the Redshite.

Barkley is never going to mature into the player England fans think he will be. Headless chicken with no football brain. Grab the big money off City now while we still can. The new Jack Rodwell?

McGeady, not Premier League, class cant even take a corner. Cuts back inside all the time, never goes outside his man. Poor and very much the new Kevin Kilbane.

The Europa League is killing us in the domestic games. We need to get knocked out or give up on the 4th place finish and concentrate on Europe. We can’t do both properly.

The season so far has been awful but the Sunday away games after Europe doesn’t help. Realistic chance of top 4 now gone.

There’s nothing wrong with keeping the ball. You could argue that when Distin tried the fabled alternative of lashing it ’out of harms way’, it led to their first goal. Incompetence is incompetence.

The problem isn’t keeping the ball, it’s the slow passing, the predictability, the ease with which the opposition can get into position to defend/attack against us. It’s the unfit players whose decision-making shows their lack of fitness.

I was expecting the team to keep the ball as well as last season and move it around more quickly. So far this season, I’ve been disappointed.

Baines was nowhere near his best. But he is experienced and classy enough to still fulfil his role (apart from his corners).

Coleman when not fully fit is simply not good enough. When he is in top form his speed, passion, commitment and self-belief takes him much longer than his talent merits. When he is not fully fit, like today, he is not very good, neither defensively or in the attack.

Mirallas lasted 60 minutes and did well. Barkley played all 90 and showed glimpses of his talent but was handicapped from being played out of position.

In the end, Martinez’s team selection did not pay off today. The good news is that these 5 who have all been sidelined gained more match fitness coming into a busy December.

I was pleased when I saw the starting line-up, just a bit nervous for Besic being ready to play this level. Apart from his backpass, he did fine considering he played next to an unfit Barry and in a very offensive line-up where the three attacking midfielders do not provide much cover.

We are definitely in the right position now and miles away from 4th. Okay we may beat Hull on Wednesday but will get beat by Man City and will still be 9th or 10th. And Martinez does not have an alternative – just play exactly the same for 90 minutes. Watching Everton away from home now is becoming a nightmare.

One day Howard will not be here and hopefully we will have a decent keeper and anyone who thinks Besic is anywhere near Premier League standard needs psychiatric assessment.

Bugger. Off to bed.

We pass the ball so slowly and so aimlessly that it’s hardly worth having the ball anyway. Basically the opposition just lets us have it in defence then, as soon as they pressure us with tempo or vigour, we have no clue where we’re going or what we’re doing.

I look at other teams: Arsenal have Oxlade-Chamberlain and Spurs have a Eriksen or Harry Kane, Southampton have Tadic, The Redshite even have it in Coutinho... Where is our tricky little pacy players who can get behind a team or play a killer pass?

I see only Mirallas capable of doing this now and again.

What’s Barkley’s role in the team? A roving midfielder, driving force that frankly drives down more blind allies than a shit bin lorry.

Martinez must surely be cursing himself for signing then hyping up Aiden McGeady, the fella makes McFadden look like Lionel Messi.

Why did he sign Atsu on loan just to treat him the same as Chelsea did? He clearly offers nothing at this level.

Barry looks like he is jaded and the length of that contract needs questioning too.

Our entire set-up and style looks jaded, our ball retention worthless when the passing is so pedestrian – it looks like we’re stuck in mud.

It’s all well and good passing the ball and having some kind of orgasm when you see the stats at the end and see our great possession numbers but, when it’s just passing sideways and backwards, what’s the fucking point????

When you watch the goalie in Europe, you can see the concentration in his face, and it’s probably no coincidence that most of his bad mistakes have come in the very next game.

I know you can’t legislate for injuries but Martinez has got to start getting the team selection right. It was great on paper, but very un-balanced out on the pitch and, although we have been on an unbeaten run, we haven’t really had much fluency in our play this season.

We pass the ball from side to side, defense to midfield and vice versa, as if we are protecting a 3-0 lead??

There’s a reason we haven’t truly walloped a side 5-0 since Martinez has taken over and it’s due to this cagey continental style that he’s playing in the wrong league/country.

Old head, solid experienced defender, played brilliantly at Wolfsburg and hasn’t played too many games this season.

This was always going to be a game when defending would need to be done.

The team today was setup OK, I just think we had players struggling a bit. Barry was clearly not up to speed, Distin looks worn out (give the guy a break, he’s been brilliant for us but he’s getting old – it’s not his fault he gets picked every week) but is doing his best.

Besic looks pretty good but is certainly no James McCarthy and, as a result, our midfield was wide open. With Macca in the team, our shape is better; we close down better, the defence is therefore less exposed (and the keeper) and we control games better.

Seriously, there’s always a bigger picture than simply Ross being on the right, or Distin making a mistake. The flow of play is what matters and this is affected by the personnel on show.

Spurs are a decent side too, don’t forget; they played very well today. There are two teams out there, and it seems Evertonians are, all too often, too quick to lay ’blame’ on whoever they can in a blue shirt. It’s rarely that simple.

Sometimes the really clever managers are the ones who leave things alone.......

We are not going down this year, let’s give Bob time to sort things out, bed the youth and all being well win something in Europe. We don’t have the money to follow Man Utd, Chelsea and the like, we have to trust youth, sensible buys and building a team up.

I think there are a lot more twists and turns to come in this season and Newcastle have shown a run of 5 games would put you in the top 4. Annoyed? Yes... errors leading to losing goals, Yes; would I swap Bob for Moyes? No way, I think we are progressing and will continue to. Here’s to Wednesday.

Can you tell me that Garbutt was mentally and physically shot after Thursday? I bet he’d have loved to play today. All three should have played today; if they had faded towards the end of the game, they could have been replaced then.

I think Martinez is a good manager, but he’s got a blind spot with players’ fitness and has the modern management curse of trying to look clever rather than demonstrating cleverness.

Give Spurs credit. Chelsea struggled against Sunderland or did you all miss that match? We do not have a divine right to win and we did not play badly.

Our passing was too slow today but perhaps the game last Thursday caused an energy dip. We actually finished stronger than Spurs and they had to turn in their best performance of the season to earn that result. Kane looks a future England star.

Consistency brings good results but the way we keep chopping and changing will always make us inconsistent. How I wish we had bought a quality midfielder instead of relying on Osman to produce the odd good performance.

What the hell were Howard and Barry doing?

Either that or he is choosing to play ’the big boys’ game of rotation – but to poor effect. The indication is that we should finish top half but are unlikely to trouble the Sky cartel.

The good news is that the team have taken to the Europa League like a duck to water and whatever eleven Martinez puts out it does well. Perhaps he is, after all, a lucky ’cup manager’ and that the New Year will also see success in the domestic trophy.

I don’t see 2014-15 as likely to be a disaster but let’s stop EXPECTING the team to suddenly start winning every game. Therein lies heartache.

I believe we are at a real crossroads and that a few positive performances and results will see the confidence grow and we can get back to what we are capable of; on the other hand, a few more bad results and the grey clouds will engulf us and we might talk ourselves into a worse situation. I think this is one of the reasons that Roberto tries to remain positive at least in public at any rate.

As somebody mentioned earlier today, all of our Europa League games have been followed by an away fixture in the Premier League whilst Spurs have always had a home game following their Europa sojourns, which hasn’t helped us.

It’s imperative that we get a good result on Wednesday and try and pinch something at Man City on Saturday, just to ensure that we don’t slip down the league as the negativity from some quarters could see us spiral out of control and nobody wants to see that do they?

It seems to me at any rate that some people seem to think that Roberto has somehow been a failure in his time at Everton; however, he has taken 89 points from a possible 153 and Everton have lost just a dozen of their 51 games during his reign scoring 84 times and conceding 60.

There are certain aspects that could be improved but I’m not sure we should expect too much more from the management at this stage, although having to score twice to win games is something that could and probably should be addressed in the January window... but we know that won’t happen, so the youngsters will have to provide the cover.

Phi l@40 – absolutely right as well. Sometimes you lose a game, sometimes the players on the other side are better then yours and make less mistakes. That’s the way it goes.

We were unbeaten in what, 8 games until today? So not a bad run and Martinez has improved us as a team and given us all something to shout about.

I do agree he’s a bit blinded by his own faith in certain players, regardless of fitness vs form, and that should change. Garbutt should have played today, but then we’re all backseat managers and he’s the bloke who lives & dies by his decisions – most of which he gets right!

When we win, your posts seem like shit. You seem to have some sort of malign influence. I do think you have a point about the rotation.

I think Barry was rushed back too early but, with McCarthy not fit, I don’t think we had must options left.

Eto’o had a poor game, he kept giving it away, Besic for me did well, he gets better every time I see him play. Barkley seems to be trying too hard instead of playing his natural game. Lukaku played well kept making runs but no one would put the ball through to him to run on to. Coleman wouldn’t run into the box when attacking for some reason he kept trying to cross it from outside the box.

As for McGeady, he’s so frustrating; the lad has talent, but he’s turned into Peter Beagrie!

Hopefully we will give Hull a stuffing on Wednesday night!

For the likes of Alan Ball and Paul Scholes, one touch was usually enough but they had team-mates who constantly made intelligent runs while our lads tend to be pretty static.

Eventually they may get it right but, till they do, we will continue to be caught in possession and our wide open defence will suffer.

The only positives for me were Besic was outstanding, spraying passes short and long all over the pitch, and he was everywhere; Barkley is starting to rediscover his form; and Kev scored a cracker.

Downsides: Jags and Distin looked as if they had left their legs in Germany. Tim was poor on both goals.

And my biggest complaint... Roberto, will you please stop playing Barkley, Eto’o and/or Ossie in the same team and instead beef up the midfield — especially away from home.

If we don’t do that, the 6 Chelsea scored against us will look like chickenfeed when we play Man City next week.

If the injuries are so bad, play Bainesy in midfield and put Garbutt at leftback.

And WTF has happened to Bryan Oviedo?

I doubt that RM truly believes that McGeady is of sufficient standard. As for Distin, he makes "Ironside" look mobile. I have never seen a player be more consistent in topping the ball so it virtually creeps across the grass or passing it behind the advancing teammate so as to ensure a complete loss of momentum.

Finally, perhaps the pitiful attempt by Tim Howard vis à vis the first goal will teach him not to go shouting his mouth off about finishing 4th. As they say, "don’t tell me how good you are — show me." That could apply to all of the team today.

Everton have flattered to deceive this season, on the odd occasion being exceptional, but generally disappointing. Today was worse.

Although Everton had travelled mid-week, Tottenham also played a European game; therefore, there can’t be much by the way of excuse for being tired, yet Spurs played as though they had had the summer off and Everton, that they had spent the week running up sand dunes.

Spurs were first to every ball, fought manfully (unusually), got forward in numbers and got back to defend as a team. Whilst in contrast, Everton were ponderous to the point of frustration, so by the time the ball had been passed back 5 times, the entire Spurs team were back and in position. The lack of enterprise and invention ensured that we would then struggle to fashion real chances.

The real issues are that firstly, Everton were not as up for the game as Tottenham were and, secondly and perhaps more worryingly, that Martinez does not appear to have a Plan B. Getting the ball wide and crossing to a lack of bodies in the box is a plan; not a very good plan, but it’s a plan. However, when it does not work, replacing like for like is not a very good plan either.

Everton have a talented squad, but sometimes it seems as though too many players believe that all they have to do is turn up and they will win. Defensively we haven’t looked properly solid or in control for years, and so it is proving. Also, the likes of Ross Barkley, as talented as he is, needs to start showing it and producing on a regular basis.

Barkley is a player who, when producing, would be worth the admission fee on his own, but the "young, inexperienced" tag no longer washes. He is not a 16-year-old just breaking through; if he and Everton, want him to be the sensational talent that he is capable of being (as we do), Martinez needs to play him regularly in his best position and we will see if the hype can be turned into reality.

Getting towards the half-term report, it should read:– Must do better; must try harder; keeping the ball in your own half does not actually win games; must have a Plan C, let alone a Plan B... and – above all – must sort out the defence.

Roberto Martinez has improved Everton beyond measure as a team to watch but, in order for us to push on, allied with the skill, there also has to be solidity, strength and athleticism. If nothing else tells you that, being out battled by Spurs should.

I think Martinez did get it wrong today but his options were a little limited by injuries and by the fact we had played Thursday. That does not make him in a general sense "tactically inept". Roll on Wednesday.

Overall, I would leave him in the team, the more games he plays, the better he will become. McCarthy and Besic in front of the back four?

Everton don’t attack as a team often enough, we attack in slow motion, in dribs and drabs. A prime example was when Barry got caught dawdling on the ball for the winning goal, look how fast Spurs ran at us, if that had been us we would have stopped, stood still then went sideways or back.

Incidentally, regarding Gareth Barry, I agree with posts suggesting he looks extremely lumbering at times this season. It’s not the first time he’s been caught out in possession; it happened numerous times at Anfield and Old Trafford if I remember.

Our midfield, apart Mirallas and Barkley (when he stands up) has little mobility to it these days. At least three new faces need bringing in next month and I’d be delighted if one was Deulofeu, I think we’ve actually missed him this season. Options we have had from the bench this term just have not been game-changing.

We need some pace in this side, someone bloody direct and not sideways.

Keep going sideways, keep getting nowhere.

If Martinez had done his homework, he would have found that Ossie always has a good game against Spurs. Hind-sight is a wonderful thing, but I honestly believe we would have at least taken a point if we had this team.

Also I just don’t get the hype regarding Besic. I admit didn’t see the Wolfsburg game but any other match I have seen with Besic playing he has looked very very average and a million miles away from a player like McCarthy or even Osman to be honest.

Having said all that, we were very unlucky to meet a Spurs team who produced their best performance of the season...

We have always said and always known Tim Howard for what he is. A decent shot stopper but makes way too many elementary mistakes.

Yes, Spurs produced a good performance but that’s the trouble with Everton in league games: we only beat teams when they play shit.

West Ham was an exception last week. Usually when a side plays well against us we generally don’t win.

Some ridiculous comments on Besic, the lad is quality, always coming deep to pick the ball up to get us moving forward, the problem was there was zilch movement up front for him. I see Besic in a few years time being captain material.

Yeah right Jeff, that’s why we finished with our highest record prem points last season.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9usQFDzhRv0

’Frankie’ Howard has been poor on many occasions, he has been lucky because usually, when he pushes the ball out instead of holding on to it, he gets away with it. Peta Cech should be our number 1 target and Barkley should be played down the middle with someone next to him to pass to.

I don’t understand why fans don’t like the Europa Cup, it’s a short cut to the Champions League. To try and finish 4th we have to play teams like Chelsea, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal etc home and away plus a total of 38 games. Seems logical to me to prioritise the Europa Cup.

I’ve never really trusted Howard ever since he dropped the ball, under no pressure, against Blackburn a few seasons ago (first game, remember?) and Santa Cruz(?) tapped it in.

As many have stated, Tim is a brilliant reflex stopper but he’s never really mastered the basics has he? My only concern is that Robles will be given the role next season.

Besic sadly fell victim of the formation. You cant play 4-2-2-2 with Eto’o and Barkely in the side, they stand in the same place. This left Besic with Barry and Coleman as his two main options. That combination of Besic, Coleman and Eot’o was one of the most common; however, they often only covered a few yards and ended up going sideways not forward. What you needed was a winger to create space on the right and allow Coleman to either push on or cut inside.

Mirallas was our best outlet, and clearly had the beating of Chiriches, who was on a yellow. I thought he should have stayed on and McGeady put onto the left and Mirallas onto the right. If teams play with the two banks of 4, that is fine when you are 1-0 up, you can sit and pass the ball, but you need to be aware you are inviting them onto you, they will slowly push up as a group and create pressure. If they win the ball back then the quick counter is on, the second goal was from that and another defensive mistake, 7th of the season, which has led to a goal... being top of this league is a stat we should aim to lose.

All-in-all, I don’t think this is a nightmare, I certainly wouldn’t be waving the "Bob does not have a clue" flag. He has shown he does more often than not. What this does show is we need to know how to set up against high-pressing 4-4-2.

Or is the stat you point out just a coincidence?

Spurs, yesterday, were exactly how I envisage us playing. Sharp crisp rapid passing with fast movement when going forward.

But, as I say, it’s all predominantly just sideways and back down the blind alleys that we just went down, too often it’s just passing the ball for passing sake, it’s too slow, it’s not like the rapid fast tempo that the likes of Barcelona or Arsenal play.

Even Bayern Munich fans started complaining last season that the way they were playing was too ponderous or pedestrian, so it doesn’t matter what the quality of players are, the fact is the ball can moved too slowly then that’s when this style doesn’t work.

I admire Martinez’s principles but surely can’t he see that you need variety and if you’re persistent with this passing game, then please please speed it up!!!

So the ball gets moved round the back, no point moving it too quickly as it will create mistakes. So pace drops. Pressure comes from their front men and we look like we have been found with our pants down.

The other issue is their back line pushed up which meant no space in between and also that ball over the top was harder because of offside. The RS played well against 4-4-2 pressing past season because they had pace, so move it round the back, ball into Steve and then ping, out to one of three quick forwards. We don’t have that, which means we look poor and just pass it round like restating 5-aside.

We were not helped by some bad offside calls in the first half, in particular, when we had attacking possibilities. I have to say that former Spurs player, Clive Allen as summariser, was unbiased in his comments and took issue with the four bad decisions (all against Everton).

If we are going to play this build-from-the-back possession football with the current squad we have, we need to offer our defense more and quicker options.

Distin and Jagielka are not natural ball players, they are not Pique or Ramos, so why are we forcing them to maintain possession? Both goals were caused because we got caught pissing about with the ball in our defensive half.

Lukaku had one of his more frustrating days where he did not look interested to make runs or even get into the box, causing us to play sideways in the final 3rd of pitch.

Very disappointing to see us throw it away after the first 20 minutes we had.

That’s a fair point, the movement yesterday was very poor.

We have speed in our team with Mirallas, Lukaku, Barkley, Coleman. There’s no excuse for this pedestrian rubbish. However, it seems to work very well in Europe.

Martinez has to learn to adjust during Premier League games.

Barkley is getting marked – yesterday he was heavily marked. He had three markers on him yet we still gave him the ball; of course he lost the ball and then, hey presto, Barkley gets a slagging from all & sundry when the easiest option must’ve been to release one of the wing backs or just lump the ball to Lukaku or his sidekick Eto’o.

Howard is a headcase and for me he seems to need about two ounces of weed before each game. Every time the opposition are attacking our box, you just sit back, close your eyes and pray because, without fail, Howard will have some crazy plan once the ball is in his area. He is just not logical in his decision-making.

It’s getting boring and predictable watching Everton. Pass back, pass sideways, pass forward, make to passes back, repeat. The style of play is ineffective, we are relying mostly on individual pieces of skill and brilliance from certain players rather than the system. I am not seeing any progress or any positive input from the management.

Rant over until the next one.

Distin did this for the first goal (gave possession away cheaply) and Spurs attacked and scored. It happens a lot, watch against Hull and Man City and count the waste of possession by these players.

I also thought that Besic tried to close Spurs players down at every opportunity and ran himself into the ground. How many other players did this? Mainly the ones in white... So, for this reason, I think his criticism on here is unfair.

Spurs were motivated and up for it – we simply were not, Individual errors from Howard and unfit Barry cost us on Sunday.

Distin is getting some criticism, but unfortunately with Stone & Alcaraz both injured he really is the only option to partner Jags. Howard & Barry were the culprits, but despite that we never looked dangerous or cause them problems in the final third.

Ok that’s it. Let’s get back to winning ways against Hull on Wednesday evening. Games coming thick & fast now...

What’s the difference, goal difference.

Martinez has got it too easy. He should be reminded that there are out-of-work managers based in the northwest who took a virtually relegated club last Christmas to an almost top six finish and ended his top four ambitions on the way.

There’s more to being a manager than going on World Cup jollies with for the boys, overlooking pre-season and spurting crap everytime his team loses.

Last season was a fluke. The sooner we realise what level we are at, the better. I definitely include Roberto in that last sentence. Roberto needs to cut the spin and say it as it is. He also needs to use his squad better.What’s wrong with Garbutt? He had a blinder on Thursday.

I can see this team falling apart. Seamus and Macca will be gone in the summer and Mirallas is playing for a transfer. With them three gone, we have to depend on Hibbo, Pienaar and McGeady. Fuck that thought!

The over the park manager spent £215 million since he took charge a couple of years ago....

Or doesn’t that count

Would you give Martinez £215m to spend?

Tell me you are not serious?

Definitely.

Explain.

Hope we’d see more of his future signings than we have of some of his current ones!

Not a manager born who gets them all right ,Geoff. Look at the record of the chap you compared Roberto to. How many of his signings would you say were good buys?

I don’t like Everton’s laborious and ineffective passing game; I think it puts pressure under players who are simply not cut out for it and exposes the lack of movement of our forwards. I do , though respect the job Martinez did last season and have no doubt we are moving forward.

I cannot accept that Roberto thinks the way we are playing is fine and that he is blind to the obvious flaws. In my view we are in the early stages of the job he is trying to do and , frankly, I was expecting it to be much more painful than it has been. However, there is, what seems to me, to be plenty of fair criticism on this thread and the performance against Spurs was just poor.

Is Rogers getting flack because of the money he’s spent or because of their league position?

Both

Is £215m the net spend or gross?

He has spent £215mil to create his squad.

Regardless of what came back in

Not a manager born, gets them all right mate!

How many of Brendan’s multitude of signings would you say he got right?

You criticise Martinez for changing his line up following a win. Are you seriously suggesting that when fit you would not start with Baines and Coleman as your full backs away at Spurs?

He has also had to pick around a bad run of injuries especially in central midfield. As for teams having sussed out our predictable tactics, it does not seem to have prevented us scoring two goals a game on average this season.

Yes we were beaten yesterday by a better team on the day, it happens. The time to start worrying is when it happens on a regular basis. But telling a doom monger like yourself is undoubtedly a waste of time. Get your David Moyes DVDs out and make yourself feel better.

Watch the game again, if you can, and we were beaten by a Spurs team who had more desire, energy and industry on the day, full stop. It happens: some you win, some you lose – it’s part of the game.

As for those who doubt the innate skill of Barkley or the potential of Besic, that is beyond belief IMO.

I’m with Colin here regarding Besic. Give him an extended run in the team, hopefully along side McCarthy.

Not too well up on who he’s signed or who he hasn’t mate, know we haven’t beat them or finished higher than them since RM took over. Does that prove anything?

If you say so. About the same.

Rodgers, LVG, Wenger, Mourinho, Van Gaal, you’ve got us down to sixth at best already.

Did we finish in the top four and qualify for the Champions League then?

You’re still missing the point old friend, I don’t rate either of them.

PS. I’ve put Brenda in last position whichever team he draws!

Wile I’m making my mind up answer me this.

Given respective records so far, If Chelsea, City, Arsenal, Utd or RS, could pick a new manager would RM or BR be their first choice?

He’d best move on then mate, he’ll never get them here.

You rate Pulis better than both of them.

What is his record like re top 4 and champions league?

Welcome back. What’s RMs.

I like Martinez - certainly prefer him to Moyes. Sometimes the most meticulous and principled people are let down by small failings. Wenger, a great manager in almost every way, has a stubborn streak (doesn’t sign good goal-keepers at high prices, to give but one example). RM’s lack of flexibility (aka stubbornness) is proving a problem for us at present.

Playing Barkley and Eto’s yesterday in the roles he did was a mistake clearly and didn’t work - but he persisted. Playing his favourites (most notably and most appallingly, the unspeakably unacceptable Aiden McGeady). This second weakness can have wider implications. I see that from today’s press that Chelsea are (rightly) furious that Atsu has hardly played (and want to send him to Sunderland after Christmas). When you think it’s that liability McGeady who has kept him out, it’s very irksome indeed, to put it mildly. McG has been given chance after chance and failed time and again. I also think that RM needs to be a little lighter on his feet during games and not be scared to make early substitutions if tactics warrant them.

Europe aside, we’ve failed almost all the major tests that have been put in front of us this season. We won’t win the Europa League despite our good showing so far.

I think:

Ross should be played in his right position
McGeady should never kick a ball for us again ... ever.
Osman should be used very sparingly indeed.
Full backs need to defend wider ... opposition wingers cross at will (except when Hibbo is playing)
Pienaar and Baines should be reunited, Atsu let loose on the right, Mirallas if we can find nowhere else for him
The two defensive midfielders, whoever they are (McCarthy and Besic for me) need to protect the back four better.
McCarthy aside, the Wigan buys have been shite - get rid of Robles, Alcaraz and Kone
We need a settled XI.
We so need a midfield general (a vocal one) - we haven’t had one for years, perhaps since Sir Howard’s golden sides.
Players should only play when fully fit and not brought back too early.
Besic should play much much more; he will play himself into our hall of fame if we’re lucky. He’s a class act.
I’ve noticed in recent games that teams are pressing our full backs and centre halves right on our penalty area when we have the ball and are coming out of defence. That seems a perfect opportunity to move the ball up quickly to Lukaku who thrives on that kind of service, but we don’t do it. Ross carries the ball forward very well but few can pass long, quickly and accurately in our side - maybe Besic?

Some of the above seems basic but RM doesn’t do it - I suppose I’m just giving my opinion/tuppo’orth.

I dare say all will disagree vehemently.

We need an emphatic win against Hull - though I, for one, will be welcoming back Jelly. 4-1 to us.

COYB!

Your brevity is commendable old mate, please explain, didn’t think either had achieved either, if you see what I mean.

Much of the rest in your piece, I agree with and I think a more pragmatic manager would make more of the current squad than the present incumbent. Certainly a Pulis would get more consistency / results from this lot - as would Moyes - but it would be at the price of pragmatic football. Is it a price worth paying ?

What’s "Better than Pulis" young man.

I see your opinion on Ossie has changed. You've gone from he should never play again to being used very sparingly.

I think he's winning you over!!

As you say it's all opinion.

That’s who, old friend not what.

Anyway that’s what I love about discussion we all have varied opinions. I respect everyone’s opinion, no matter how ill-informed I may think they are.

For the sake of all the open minded Evertonians I hope your right. Shall be watching intently over coming months for your brief threads to see if your undoubtedly high opinion of the manager stays the same.

You do talk a lot of shite sometimes.

"Certainly a Pulis would get more consistency / results from this lot - as would Moyes"

May I just point out the facts:

Martinez in one season got more "consistency / results" than Moyes achieved in 11 attempts and enough to have had Pulis spunking in his pants. Even after a relatively low key start we are still on course for 55+ which was about par for your famous seventh.

The fact you refer to Roberto as 'the present incumbent' for me says it all.

And if the answer is Pulis let me just answer your question.

Hell no!

Let you get to bed now, old mate, don’t be late for school tomorrow, nighty, night.

I will ask the teacher if has he got a book explaining punctuation to give you.

Save you making the same bloomer again :-)

How about we give Martinez 3 or 4 more seasons - yes seasons, not fucking individual games, or minutes - to see what his team, with his players, coached in his style of football can do.

He's already done better in his first season than the last guy who had 11 years of stability, and Martinez did it playing proper football, that some geniuses said would have us relegated.

We've topped our group in the Europa League, unbeaten against a very, very tough set of teams and we're still within touching distance of top 4....and all done with a patched up squad of half-fit players and academy youngsters.

I think one of the commentators mentioned on Sunday that WHL was one of our bogey grounds; not won there in 7 years or something. Not that it should make any difference, but if we're looking for a reason to beat him with a stick, at least pick something worthy.

At least most agree that Besic had a good game and could be one for the future. We thought that about Barkley not so long ago, now some want to cash in on him. Fickle is a understatement.

- Slow, ponderous, predictable style of play every game
- default: 4 defenders, 2 very defensive mids, 4 attackers
- Tim Howard with no real competition
- Eto in midfield
- Barkley on the wing
- Atsu, Kone, Alcaraz, Barry, McGeady, Robles
- £28M blown on one far from complete striker
- Press conferences that say nothing

On the credit side:
McCarthy and maybe Besic.
Result will inevitably be mid table.

I do not see Atsu as a saviour to our season – but compared to McGeady, he is the better player (not hard).

I would be quite happy never to see Osman in a blue shirt again. His performance against WHU was very good. There is no contradiction between those two sentences.

At least you are consistent so fair play.

Unfortunately Ossie has another 50 games in him and on current form is first choice, certainly ahead of Ross.

I think it is too early to make definite judgements about him as I doubt that any of us has seen him play often enough to decide.

I'm now convinced all managers are just dumb as rocks. Wenger throws Ozil wide like he did Cazorla. Both are clearly number 10s if ever there were two. Eriksen was wide right for 2 games and subbed off for being ineffective (like it was a big fucking surprise). Pochettino finally moves him back to his natural position and lo and behold he scores the last two. Genius masterstroke there!

Now Roberto is taking another brilliantly talented central attacker and tossing him out wide like every other idiot in this silly league. Any fucking twelve year old playing FIFA can read CAM and then properly field a team of 11 players that aren't out of position. But nope, not guys making millions a year to pick a team.

This isn't rocket science. Change the formation to accommodate your personnel. Don't jam them all into positions they don't belong because they have the most talent. It's all so infuriating.

It's the same issue that many had with Moyes and that ended up with the many, many, many square peg, round hole threads and the eventual "tactically inept" comments.

Ossie saw years of his career wasted on the wing, I hope the same doesn't happen with Ross.

Then again, he will be off at the first sign of an offer if he is consistently played out of position.

Tony, I agree with your view that the much maligned Osman didn't reach his full potential because he spent most of his career out on the wings. I'm sure he'd have doubled his number of England caps had he been played in his natural position.