Hull confound Everton to earn a point at Goodison

All of those old guys are on extended contracts. Leon is getting the next one! Are we on crazy pills or are we signing players in their mid 30’s to 1,2 and even 3 year contracts?? Is this really happening? Are people actually getting paid to make those decisions??

Coleman apparently the best right back in the PL at the moment. Not with a performance like that.

Why don’t the holding midfielders have a little gander before they pass the Ball forward. And not pass it back

Peter Laing – we’ve been needing these players for the past 5/7 years and every time it’s the same song and dance.

Darren Hind, we’ve disagreed on a few things. Having experienced a game in the flesh, I can only endorse many of your points.

We were painfully ponderous. No zip, no energy, no desire to press forwards, Besic excepted. No wonder Goodison is a morgue’s library without the excitement. Howard, Distin and Jagielka slowly passing the ball like it’s a bomb about to explode. Barry and Besic then come and get the ball, look up and guess what - everyone’s marked and not moving.

As for Martinez, did he really praise the team’s energy? Didn’t see any tonight. If they were tired, why not play Hibbert and Garbutt? Why can’t he (and many on here) see that Pienaar is shot, finished? Why did he take off the only two positive players we had on the pitch? How come Barkley, McGeady, Pienaar got on the pitch, but not Eto’o?

I know I’m sounding like a broken record, but was behind the line of Aluko’s shot; I can’t believe Howard let that through his near post. Dreadful though we were, we would have ground out a 1-0 win without his mistake. That’s two more points Howard has cost us. Like I keep saying, Cech or Marshall in January, please.

Darren, I take it all back, my friend. The in the flesh experience is painful. I really don’t know where we go from here. Shocking.

The daft thing is, it was great to be back. Hope it’s better next time........

I think the only decent corner I’ve seen from an Everton player in 12 months was Garbutt’s last Thursday.

We keep hearing about this great left foot of Leighton Baines...
Does he ever actually bring it on the pitch with him?

Watching Swansea pass and move the ball so fast and fluent, shooting and working the keeper endlessly.

Then you see our boring pointless style... mind-numbing it is.

Have too many of that team ’gone past it’ or has the praise that their manager heaps upon them bred an air of complacency – particularly when they go into a first-half lead?

Certainly, Roberto’s hyperbole did for Wigan when too many of their players began to believe they were world beaters. Could it do the same for Everton? Not exactly a new question from me!

The more worrying thing is that in Everton’s last ten PL games at Goodison, starting with the Palace reverse last term, we have won only three, and that was following seven straight wins culminating in the Arsenal victory last season.

Jags surrendering possession again with a poor pass, bad tracking back of Barry and Baines, Distin turned inside out and dumped on his backside and being made to look like a mug, and Howard beaten on a shot that he should have had covered on his angles.

Different game, same predictable players making the same mistakes and more points dropped as we once again squander a lead. Very depressing.

It’s only going to be more excuses from here on. Excuses and positivity, while with Moyes was just excuses. We’ve got a salesman here instead of a manager.

"And tonight Everton tossed away another winning position, two more home points and left the pitch to boos from from a number of disaffected fans.

The fickleness of fans should never surprise. But the lack of sympathy from that sizeable minority was surprising.

It’s only six days since the Blues enjoyed impressive back-to-back victories against West Ham and Wolfsburg."

He goes on to cite the demands upon the ageing players and the fact that the Toffees have played four games in eleven days – but honestly what has that got to do with the price of fish? We pay our money to watch our team play football not to sympathise with the unfair demands of modern-day football. I didn’t think I could be annoyed anymore tonight but Dave Prentice has managed to do just that.

One comment, I thought Ross played well. Haven’t seen him press and harry like that before. He’s still one of the keys to us turning this around. Fitness did fail him in the last 20 though... He was out on his feet and needed a sub.

Roberto looked anything but calm tonight.

The crowd booing is justified; it might make the players realize that they need to play to their strengths and tell Roberto to get real.

Even an unlikely win on Saturday will not hide the fact that, at the moment, we are playing shit. Don’t forget there are still plenty of points to loose because we don’t look like winning many.

To hear the booing at the end of the Hull game makes me nervous about the future as, throughout the years, Everton supporters being very knowlegable, have always given a new manager a chance but the number of people booing and I am sure it was over a thousand, I am not surprised that they are becoming disillusioned with the performances and some of the decisions the manager is making.

I cant fathom out what the problem is with Barkley; having shown early promise his game seems to be going backwards and there must be a reason as the number of knowledgeable people in the sport who think highly of him can’t all be wrong.

Right at the start of the season, during pre-season, there was an awful lot of critisism over the fitness of the Everton squad with a number of people writing up to say we will be okay once the season gets going. To me, I am sorry to say the fitness levels do not seem to be improving – if anything they seem to be deteriorating.

Some one on the coaching staff must be able to see what thousands of supporters witness and must address the problem, unless the manager is happy with the fitness coaches he has on staff.

When playing Hull at home, I think we should have a more offensive midfield and that we have two solid wing players on the field at the same time. I think that the only good wing player in the starting squad today was Mirallas. Barkley and Osman are central players. With this setup, we get several problems:

Problem 1. The midfield gets problems because they are not good enough to distribute the ball forward. Barry and Besic are not good enough driving forward. Osman is okay distributing but he is getting a little weak. Is he getting too old? These three together is in my view are not a good mix.

This problem results in:

a. Everton playing the ball backwards instead of forwards.
b. Distin gets the ball and he does not know what to do with it.
c. Distin or Jagielka playing a long ball. Hull’s big defenders head the ball away and either winning the ball or disrupting Everton’s game.
d. Everton do not play enough straight forward passes to get enough good chances to put a few goals over 90 minutes.
6. Hull eventually winning the midfield.

Hull were playing smart. They realized that this was weakest spot Everton had and played high pressure.

Problem 2: When playing only one good winger we get our wing backs too much in the offense. Baines and Coleman attack too much on the wings because there were too few good wingers. This problem results in:

a. When the opposition gets to counter-attack, they are up against the two central defenders (Jagielka and Distin). b. Members of the midfield, because the wingers have been attacking. c. Thus the counter-attacks of the opposition get more dangerous.

When adding both these problems, the Everton team are likely to not feel very secure as there are problems both on the wings and in the middle, then not being able to dominate the game.

Then there are several other problems on the field.

Problem 3. Everton generally play too many balls backwards. It seems that they are scared of playing straight through passes. It is really frustrating to watch. It seems they rather give the ball to Jagielka and Distin instead of trying to play the ball forward in the middle. Do they prefer a long ball from Distin?

Problem 4: Everton play too few cross balls. The few times there were actually more than one player (Lukaku) in the box they did not cross. Instead they passed the ball back and forth until they lost it in the midfield risking counter-attacks. Bad strategy if you ask me.

Problem 5: Another problem is that several players give away the ball too late. The fastest way to get to the goal is to pass the ball forward. You can pass faster than you can run. When Barkley and Coleman (and other players) dribble dribble and dribble the opposition gets the time to structure the defense. Then we will be banging the wall instead of getting fast counter-attacks.

About the squad I think:

(1) Eto’o should play from start as a central offensive midfielder or as a striker behind Lukaku. He is definitely one of the best players in Everton at the moment and should definitely be on the pitch.

(2) Everton should have had at most one defensive midfielder, maybe zero. Barry or Besic or both should have started on the bench. Osman could have been playing central midfielder or Barkley. Then we would have been stronger in distributing the ball through the midfield.

(3) Mirallas should not have been put on the bench. He was the only good wing player on the pitch and Martinez takes him off? Replacing him with Pienaar?? Then we had zero good wing players until McGeady came in.

(4) Pienaar is definitely not good enough to compete. Adding him is like adding half a player. I am not sure he should be in the squad at all. He has to train harder or something. He is too weak and too slow.

(5) Mirallas and McGeady would have been better from start or maybe Atsu should get a chance? It seems clear to me that Everton needs to spend money on a left or right winger. I am not sure if McGeady or Atsu are good enough. Maybe actually Barkley is a better alternative than both McGeady and Atsu. But I don’t think he is a wing player, he tends to seek the center, and that is where he is at his best I think.

The strategy overall was really bad. The loss of points today is Martinez’s responsibility alone.

Tactics that have been figured out by everyone.
Old players getting older every game.
Young players that seem confused most of the time.
No joy! No fun! For players or fans!

I’m not sure what RM can do to turn it around, but he’s got to do something. If we play Man City the same as played against Hull, we will be slaughtered.

Barkley is a failure this season; Coleman ;s off his game; Osman is the same powder puff he has always been; Barry is too old; Distin is too old; Baines is not performing; Howard is an increasing embarrassment; Pienaar is finished and has been since returning from Spurs; and Lukaku can’t trap a ball.

Some have hinted at it but maybe there is something wrong in the dressing room? Maybe Roberto has lost it with the players – all the signs are there... its going to be a long hard winter and spring.

Everton are the greatest Club in the world for failing to capitalise when any situation presents its self. We are just so frustrating and its in our DNA.

I think two incidents have derailed our expectations since the euphoria of the Lukaku signing. The first was Ross getting injured on the eve of the season. The lad had been to Brazil, had a taste and I believe would have been so hungry he would have exploded into the season. His ability to turn defenders opens teams up. Sadly we are approaching Xmas and he is not fully match fit.

Our other setback was Stones getting hurt. Our best football is when we play out at speed from the back. Systems require players and these two are vital to Everton’s future. Once both are fit, I can see us climb the table.

The biggest problem for me, and this has been a gripe for years, is Howard. He is shite. Any tit can stop shots and dive around. Top keepers have minds like mathematicians – it’s all about positional space. He is a fucking clueless wannabe hipster tit who assists in throwing away tight games.

But I’m keen to know, what signs have you seen that Martinez has lost the dressing room? I concur with those who say we just don’t have the players to play his system, so am bemused as to why he persists. I can’t remember another season (well maybe last season) where so many goals against have been down to individual errors.

We simply have to have CBs who can play the ball out from the back. Distin is a good defender who clearly isn’t comfortable on a ball. Jags pretty much the same thing. We miss Stones terribly.

And... does Seamus take on defenders any longer? How many times did he pass the ball backwards the last two games?

I wonder if we shouldn’t play, when healthy, Stones and Besic in the back. Both are very comfortable on the ball and could clearly do better playing it out from the back.

I know Jags won’t be dropped so it’s a non-issue. But if we actually had two playmakers in the center of defense I think the whole "machine" would run much better.

Their manager out-thought ours and their players out-fought ours. They came with a delibeate game plan and we had no answer to it, no Plan B.

That’s where the problem lies.

Can we not see that he can’t bomb forward without some support/cover. We had no right-sided midfielder/forward! Barkley wanders round believing his hype and Osman plays like he is Gerrard or Lampard and deserves his place based on a great history for the club!

McGeady came on and played right-ish and Coleman got forward more, but lacked confidence given the previous 80 minutes of shite he had seen going on around him at the back.

Finally, A NEW GOALKEEPER PLEASE!! Howard was hailed as a hero in the World Cup, why? Every save he made he should have made. Never seen him pull off a Southall-esq, "How on earth did that not go in?" save, just saves any decent keeper should make.

I fear for us on Saturday.

It is very rare and difficult or expensive to find a complete footballer or a complete defender for that matter. We were very very lucky to find John Stones.

The key is to play players to their strengths. But Martinez persists to insist that his methods and pride come before the players and the club.

Let Distin and Jags do what they do best: defend and hoof it to Lukaku if necessary, catch the opposition out and get it into their box at the first possible opportunity. Lukaku has shown he has the attributes and ability to be effective in that style of play.

Past their best and in decline:
Howard
Hibbert
Jagielka
Distin
Baines (may get form back, who knows?)
Pienaar
Barry
Osman
Eto’o
Kone
Gibson

Great prospects but not complete players yet:
Barkley
Lukaku
Stones
Garbutt
Besic
Oviedo

Not top EPL players:
McGeady
Atsu
Robles
Alcaraz

Top EPL players that could get in a top 4 squad:
McCarthy
Naismith
Coleman
Mirallas
Baines (possibly if he can get back to form)

Do the same sort of exercise with other teams and you will get a completely different result for the better teams above us. Matinez’s is obviously responsible for creating such a poor squad.

#72 Mark – I have not been drinking at all man as I have 3 small kids. You can at least come with some solid arguments why last night’s game what shite instead of accusing me of being a drinker. I think the main problems lie exactly in my explanation in #69.

The tactics aren’t working and it’s making some good senior players look poor. That’s exactly how you lose a changing room.

I can understand how injuries and European games can take an effect but if Roberto can’t figure that out or the best way to play to the player’s strengths then he needs to ask himself if he’s good enough to manage at this level.

Football 101. Pass and move not pass and pass. If in doubt hit it out. Don’t pass across tour own 18 yard line. If a striker is Challenging the keeper, the keeper should take all 3 balls. Not EVERY fucking corner needs a flick on at the near post.

Now he says we lacked energy in the second half, is that a way of blaming the Europa league as the problem. Because I might remind him that Chelsea have played 7 of their players in all their games this season including all the Champions league games, and it doesnt seem to have effected their overall fitness.
Funny how with 10 minutes left Jagielka stopped passing sideways and started carrying the ball into the oppositions half, so it just demonstrates that there is another way of playing the ball out of defence.

I think Roberto will get it right but think its going to be a mixed bag of a season.

Subs were just a headshake, Besic another quality display, Kev our most dangerous player going forward.

If the players are tired then use more players in the squad, Osman not a 90 minute player - gave the ball away for the goal.

Distin - I can’t remember him getting done like that before.

Attacking said it over & over we really lack pace on the flanks and subtle creativity. We needed another striker to come on as well why no Eto?

Even if Kone is fit we need another striker option to come off the bench in games like this either to replace or support Lukaku. Buy or bring one through the youth.

If players are tired - use the squad and youth players, nobody is going to tell me Garbutt would not have done a good job tonight.

Pienaar - I just don’t see what he brings anymore, never the quickest but he’s looks to have lost half a yard again.

A lot of people are big Barry fans, for me he’s a good player but nowhere near as integral as many seem to believe as per our last two performances.

McCarthy for me is far more integral to us and our shape, we’ve missed him and his energy and breaking up the play badly.

I don’t care whether the players had done a half marathon in training the day before, that second half was pathetic.

Why not mix it up? Its all very well being a posession team, but if the opponents believe they know how to stop us then let them press high and then hit them long. If they get stung then they will think twice about over committing men forward. Maybe Mr Martinez like Mr Rodgers over the park has got a little bit carried away with himself.

We need a bit more passion and pace, more aggressive defenders. Roberto will have money to spend in January, I hope he spends it well. I remember people moaning about £14 for McCarthy, now they are praising him because Roberto spent well.

It’s time to give Roberto 100% support, Moyes got 11 years, Roberto has not really had that support in 11 months.

Trust in Roberto, let him spend more money and buy his own team.

You can’t erase the mural...but you can pull your finger out and get your act together .He better get weaving soon

Naismith......really!!!!! He takes 4 touches to control a ball, he runs about a lot and huffs and puffs but a top 4 player!!! I think not!!

I am still lost for words after that performance and worry what the rest of the season holds for us.

Having watched the game from the comfort of my own home (with a beer in case you’re interested Matt) my sympathies are with the Goodison Faithful who paid good money to watch that abject performance.

Last season we played with David Moyes’s tactics and aggression still fresh in players minds. We have watched and listened to this rubbish now since pre-season when we were piss poor... Phenomenal!! Extraordinary!! Exceptional!! If I hear these fucking words anymore!!

It’s plain to see Martinez is the type of manager to put an arm around a player when 80% of our squad needs a kick up the backside.

Absolutely gutting to watch Liverpool, Man Utd and Arsenal having so-called terrible seasons and somehow it’s acceptable that we can’t even keep pace with them.

Once again, the substitutions were baffling. Maybe he thought we had too much pace on the pitch with Mirallas and Besic? Same old boring stuff week-in & week-out, but worse that that, we show no passion, no urgency, no signs of any will to win the game. Lukaku by the end looked like the only player who wanted it, but that meant dropping back deeper and deeper to get the ball and try and make something happen.

Martinez won’t change a thing though, why should he? This way of playing is the only way, the beautiful way, the Spanish way. For me, he signed for Wigan over 20 years ago when they were in the bottom division, never played at international level, and is about as Spanish as I am. He sends a team out and win, lose or draw it is just a shrug of the shoulders followed by a weak excuse.

He has to go.

I am really thinking that we will struggle to hit 50 points this season. If that comes with no cups, or at least a final, he will know what it’s like to have a home crowd on his case.

He also has been too protected in his life; let’s see what he is like when the shit hits the fan.

I’m 99% in hope of getting anything at Man City, 1% confident. Just what you need on a Saturday night — a rampant Man City. :(

Perhaps that's what Martinez needs – a jolt, a wake-up call, a clear statement of dissatisfaction with the slump (and it is that) in our fortunes. I was there last night... booing off the team is one of the few things a paying fan can do. It does no good... but understandable frustration.

You just hope that it's still ringing in Martinez's ears and this arrogance of looking at things in just one way (his way) gives way to pragmatism and we play a number of different ways to both our strengths and match conditions. In some ways, he is as obstinate as Moyes.

I think some of the criticism on here is a bit over the top. We're missing some key players. Stones is the guy who breaks through the opposition press – we know Distin can't do that. McCarthy gives that energy in midfield that we're missing. Kev is our key man but currently can't run out a game. Naismith is our second option up top to change things.

Yes, we would like an unbelievable squad with talent three deep in every position but that's not where we're at right now. The squad has definitely improved though. Improvement is about all you can ask for. Everyone will get a bad dose of injuries at some point. Hopefully this is as bad as it gets for us. COYB

I have to agree with you re "as obstinate as Moyes" in some ways. I say this as fan of his that backs him to get it right long-term but some things as just baffling.

His decision to take off two of the better players in Besic & Kev that bring pace & the most energy, is just completely unfathomable. Then go on to say after the match that we lacked energy.

One other example of his obstinance is (just like Moyes) he seems to have favourites – Osman being one of them. Most are older players who are past their sell-by date that should be moved on or used infrequently as bit-part players.

The lack of trust to some younger players like Garbutt & Browning who look more than ready for the step up – and using players who are not as good but have experience is something that is further frustrating.

That said, I back him to get things right (and I said this at the start of this season) but I think it’s going to take another two seasons to build a squad where we want to be.

That Mirallas pricky shot, Pienaar's pathetic through pass to Baines at the end and Barkley's awful corner summed this whole season up. Doing the simply things badly.

Their scoring attack came from Jags trying an eye-of-the-needle pass when Besic was in acres of space to the right of him and Distin was already struggling playing two games in a week, so 3 in 7 days was just too much for him. He very rarely dives in or is done for pace but he was raped last night by another player who hasn't scored in over a year!!

Besic was our best player and Ossie was blowing for tugs, so what does Bobby do? McGeady has had three poor games on the spin, why bring him on?

Fucking bored of it all now.

He spouts this nonsense positivity after every game, even when we deliver dire performances. He will never say it as it really is; he will never berate players. He believes this approach strengthens his squad and gives them more confidence.

I think it's doing the opposite. We've been sussed by most Premier League teams, and even poor teams can arrive at Goodison confident that they will get at least a point. I believe, before too long, we're in grave danger of slipping into the relegation zone.

The Everton Board should seriously start looking for a new manager.

During David Moyes’s reign he always had a prominent assistant who could be seen imparting advice during games, He also seemed to be at every other game watching other sides players and tactics. Is Roberto making a mistake ignoring these practices or is he a little more arrogant than we think??

One thing I know is by Christmas our hopes of a top four could be over because we lack motivation, imagination and in my opinion that extra level of fitness Premier League sides need. That is the responsibility of one man.

We can only dream? Players need to show some pride, & hopefully we might get a performance worthy of the shirt.

Otherwise it's going to be a long hard winter.

I'm sad as this is a team with potential but with an attitude problem. It seems to me that they expect other teams to stand back and admire them but, when that doesn't happen, they seem to fold and try and get through the game with minimum effort.

Sad, very sad.

However, Everton can still win the Europa League trophy this season. DIG DEEP and they can get to the final and win it. With the team Everton have, they are capable. Playing better in Europe I must say.

We need to start playing every game like it's a cup final. I think it's a mid-table finish this season for them. Who knows what will happen in Europe. The knock out stage is home and away fixtures. Personally, I think that Everton have it in them to go all the way in the Europa League but they have to believe in themselves.

Everton play too few passes in the middle to make enough chances to make more goals. The reason for that is that the midfield is too defensive minded!

Besic should have credit for trying yesterday. When playing like this all midfielders will struggle scoring. If we had one more offensive midfielder on the field together with Barkley in the middle, Barkley would score more goals.

It is meaningless giving Barkley shit because he does not score. He is suffering (with the rest of the team) because of bad Martinez strategy.

I hate to say it but Pienarr and Distin aren't the same players anymore & they're not getting any younger.

I'd like to see all the young/fringe/returning from injury lads play Krasnodar – Robles, Browning, Garbutt, Oviedo, Kone etc.

That being said, there's things that can be done to counter the above. The talk last week that we won't need defensive recruits in the January window is absolute tosh. Distin has lost a yard of pace and is finished! If he doesn't give Browning a chance now, then when will be the right time to integrate him? Distin will probably still be playing in the dead rubber Kasnodar fixture.

Martinez, like OFM, seems to have his favourites – that's the only conclusion I can come too when there is so little squad rotation from an already stretched squad. Garbutt and Hibbert should have been playing last night.

I'd also have liked to have seen McAleny making some contribution by now. There's no point having an 22-year-old around if he's not deemed good enough to play. Sell him for a nominal fee with a big sell-on fee, like Forshaw.

I agree with many on here that we need another goalkeeper (Cech, Marshall or even Ruddy would do for me) but I think the immediate priority is to replace Distin and Pienaar. Stones should be back by then but we shouldn't put so much pressure on young shoulders.

I've writen this season off now in terms of the league but I still think we can win a cup... if we rotate the squad a little more and make a couple of astute January signings.

But our problem is that our players think kicking it about at a leisurely pace (to put it mildly) is enough to strike fear in our opposition, like you say. When they don't shy away from the challenge because they're under no real pressure, we seem to get flustered, and sit around waiting for the game to be over.

Plus it doesn't help when your goalkeeper is off striking up sponsorship deals and writing memoirs rather than protecting his near post.

Secondly, and I've said it last year, for me the team echoes the manager's character: calm, over technical and far too nice. There is no will to win ugly, no urgency or passion/fire in our play – almost to the point of boredom.

Keeping it on the deck, quality passing and moving, is what we want to see but it needs to be done so much quicker to hurt teams and to entertain the fans and I just don't think we have the players to do it, i.e. Jagielka, Distin, Barry, McCarthy, Lukaku, all good footballers in there own right but for me not nimble or skillful enough to play the slick passing game.

Thirdly, the formation and system is shite and in my eyes one of the main reasons we are so slow in attack. I can't understand why we have to have two holding midfielders. I can see it is to allow the fullbacks to play higher up but when they are not high up it means seven of our players are in our own half and there are not enough options going forward.

The time it takes to get to the opposition's box means there are too many bodies to play through and we haven't enough of the creativity or craft required to do it à la Messi style.

Solution: play a 4-1-2-3, the Christmas Tree or the Diamond – forget the centre halves playing square over and over, they go to the full back, the centre mid or up the pitch.

The goalie is a terrible passer and should only hit the front men not the fullbacks. If one fullback attacks the other drops and the defence push across one, the opposite side winger can attack the back stick and one of the centre mids can drop to cover. The huge centre forwards size and strength should be used to play into and build attacks.

We still haven't replaced Arteta, we need a quality ball playing centre mid to move the ball with speed. Yacini Brahimi looks class I only wish we'd have got him from Grenada before he went to Porto, hopefully we'll get him or someone of his ilk in January or the summer windows.

As has been the case now for some time now, he shows flashes of brilliance and then goes missing for long stretches. You never want to discourage his creativity but when everyone playing behind him has next to zero confidence to adequately deal with the pressure of him giving the ball away in a bad position on the pitch, it presents a real problem for the gaffer.

If he were scoring goals one could justify his continued inclusion – but he's not. Once Naismith is fit, Barkley needs to be relegated to the subs bench. It completely defies logic as he needs the playing time but the harsh reality is he's more of a liability to us than a weapon at this point in time.