Martinez hails gem Stones

Oh shit. This might not end well.

His emergence is one reason why I still feel strongly about keeping Martinez, because the ball playing philosophy is what will keep us developing.

StoneÂ’s development might also be instrumental in swaying some players to join the club. We all know that players donÂ’t just join a club because of the money thrown at them. Some will relish the opportunity to play with other good players.

Put a fucking fork in it and win some games.

If we are ever going to get back to the top it will because we built a team around this lad.

I am really beginning to loathe our manager more than any manager weÂ’ve had the past 20 yrs

The guy just makes a rod for his own back by constantly bigging up his players to the media. Does he believe that ingratiating himself to players in this manner will somehow make them respect him? How do you drop such a player when he loses form?

How much harder is it to keep your Â’gemsÂ’ when you make them play a style of football that sees the team hovering around the relegation zone?
Please Roberto just keep your big gob shut until the end of the season and let the results do your talking for you.

I suppose the one silver lining for when we take an undoubted bath on the sale of Luk-warm-aku and Golden Bentley balls, when they finally make their dream moves to their top clubs, is that, when Stones moves on, we are going to make a huge profit; sad but true.

I mean, however weary we may, or may not, get with RobertoÂ’s media handling, IÂ’m far more weary of the same knee-jerk, thoughtless, unimaginative and, to honest, embarrassing, postings on here blaming him for literally every ill in the world. Seriously, if you donÂ’t like what he says, stop bloody reading and reacting to it.

IÂ’m taking my own advice and starting to skim over comments that go no further that attacking Martinez for having the temerity to open his mouth and say something upbeat.

With the likes of Stones, Coleman, Robles, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku etc... the future is bright, if we can keep them.

Harsh on Jags? Not really. I hope we sign another centre half that puts Jags as not a guaranteed starter next season.

Sadly any decent player for us will be sold, simply because we are now a small club with no real aspersions to get back into the big time. People say Martinez is a dreamer, then that goes for a lot of us, who think we are going to magically rise to the top again.

Never say never though, the world was built by dreamers.

I donÂ’t criticise positivity but the problem is that Martinez just uses so many superlatives that it becomes wearing. The fans are naturally interested in what their manager has to say so they are not going to stop reading his interviews.

Other managers donÂ’t gush on about their players all the time, they probably are wise enough to see the pitfalls of this.

My point is that, given the type of person Martinez is and the job that he has to do, moaning (constantly, incessantly, without end) about his media pronouncements is akin to going outside and screaming at the clouds for hanging in the sky. ItÂ’s POINTLESS. So why do it? Over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again?

If you donÂ’t like Martinez, why read every bloody word that he utters? Why then comment on it? Why?!? What do people get out of it? HeÂ’s not Hitler or Stalin. He doesnÂ’t need to be publicly challenged every time he appears. Why do people wind themselves up so much? Just stop listening to him. It makes far more sense.

Could it be that their manager is phenomenally out of his depth ?

Just like last season when things were going well and he was getting all the plaudits, it is what it is.

Sure he talks about great moments and phenomenal assets, but would you prefer Moysie, Fat Sam or Tony Pullis giving their deeply eloquent post-match summary? Perhaps Phil Walling and crew can give us some fun and post for the next week in Spanish?

Que contributiones mas pesados, Senor Walling! Give that a go for starters.

Just let the lad develop without heaping more pressure on him. Praising players we have to the high heavens is nonsense. DidnÂ’t work for Barkley, nor for Lukaku and weÂ’ve only won 6 games all season.

Wonder if there is a mental illness for being overly positive?

And where does it get him?

The dressing room clearly isnÂ’t happy, and is becoming "leaky". Two of our more verbally indulged "stars", both nowhere near as good as they think they are by the way, are getting chatty.

As for Ross, well he has been very, very poor. When your confidence goes, itÂ’s a bad situation, but I donÂ’t know if he has been handled great by the manager on occasion this season, especially the constant switching of position. His comments re Barkley in relation to England were absurd. I could actually imagine him getting good-natured stick in the dressing room about that one!!

Martinez can only be himself. And on this occasion I donÂ’t think heÂ’s too far off. But itÂ’s still hyperbole. And there is a respect issue at the club. I just donÂ’t feel the constant pandering helps him or the players.

Young millionaires need a short leash. Otherwise you can get the kind of performance our "£100 million" striker gave in the derby.

The problem start’s when were being told that a £28 million pound striker is worth £100 mill when he’s stank the joint all season; a lad that has totally lost his confidence and has been very poor all season is going to be the best player ever to wear an England shirt; a god awful derby where we had one shot all game, and had to wait till the 86th minute for that, was "fascinating"; a drab 0-0 home draw against relegation fodder WBA, where Foster didn’t have to make a save, was "a phenominal effort"... and the list goes on.

We’re Evertonians – probably the most realistic fans anywhere... please don’t feed us horseshit. And to tell us "Don’t read it and don’t comment on it" is ridiculous really, because we’re fans and these stupid quotes are all over the press and in match reports – of course we’re going to read it and comment.

Señor Martinez, please stop encouraging your players (and make the rain stop instead) otherwise resign and we can get another manager in like Simeone, Ancellotti or Guardiola. As Big Sam, Pulis and Harry (our first choices) are currently unavailable.

No need for any of us to learn Spanish - or even English !- and make public statements as we are not paid thousands a week to manage our team. On the contrary, some of us put thousands into the club kitty each season and thus have every right to comment on how it is being ill-managed.

I donÂ’t deny you the right to worship at the SpaniardÂ’s shrine so allow others to take a less enthusiastic view of his current achievements.....please !

Carry on your crusade Phil as I enjoy your Martinez baiting and, as the philosopher Descartes once said, "I hate your ideas but I will die defending your right to express them".

ps: I donÂ’t think IÂ’m alone in my support for the manager Phil. We are legion.

Firstly, as the manager of a major prem club (yes weÂ’re still that) he will be expected to give regular interviews with the media, in fact managers get fined if they donÂ’t. So whatÂ’s he supposed to say when asked about John Stones? "The ladÂ’s a fuckinÂ’ liabilty" " A piece of caramalised awld shite."?

Anyone who watches the game realises that Stones is special; now whether heÂ’s a one season wonder or goes on to become one of the true greats remains to be seen, but IÂ’m glad to see him in a blue shirt, and would be well pissed off if he was sold, in what is beginning to look like a fire sale in the summer.

Criticism of managers is part and parcel of being a football supporter, but the vitriol heaped on Martinez is becoming almost Cleese-esque.

First sensible thing out of MartinezÂ’s mouth for awhile although we donÂ’t want him talked up too much or bigger fish will circle.

Said it before on other threads Stones is the best player at Everton and the only one currently at the level of a Champions League player. Week in week out he performs against the best. Which is more than can be said of the BarkleyÂ’s, LukakuÂ’s and MirallasÂ’s of this world.

The sooner we make him Captain the better.

The blame has placed on him IÂ’m afraid, bad decisions, bad tactics, puzzling substitutions or lack thereof, no discipline see Lukaku, Mirallas, no team spirit, disillusioned fans, ridiculous press conferences, itÂ’s a never ending list of fuck ups on his part.

Look at the last game for a recent example: Why was Robles dropped? Why was Besic and not Barry subbed? Them two decisions of his ultimately cost us getting something. Hopefully he can turn it around but, after what IÂ’ve seen this season, IÂ’m not encouraged.

This is an open forum for people to express their views.

IÂ’m getting a bit sick to be honest of some of those who support Martinez consantatly trying to deny people their right to speak their minds.

If someone thinks RM should not have made these latest comments they are entitled so say so on this thread.

Declan @23 - you say "If you donÂ’t like Martinez, why read every bloody word that he utters? Why then comment on it?"

So you are basically saying we should just put up with what we have and not comment on our manager!

Not going to happen Declan.

We may not always agree with someones opinion but they are free to express that opinion when they see fit.

IÂ’m starting to think Roberto has been caught in someoneÂ’s wardrobe in the past.

My catÂ’s just scratched my fekin couch... who can I blame?

These are the type of players that we need at Everton but remember, every game he has like the one at Chelsea brings the day he goes just that bit closer. He is above our level but hopefully we can unearth another gem and benefit ffrom the work weÂ’ve done on JS with a good price. We mustnÂ’t let Luke Garbut go, please Everton

Most people here have no issue with Martinez praising Stones (or any other of our players for that matter) when their playing well. The issue we have is the complete over-the-top extreme compliments he comes out with.

It gets to the stage that you can’t take anything he says seriously anymore and he just sounds like an idiot – which doesn’t exactly help our image. Praising Stones (yes), saying he’s one of the best ball playing CBs in Europe, after not even having played a full season in the top flight, erm..No!!

What exactly is Stones to make of it? What are the players supposed to make of similar comments made about them and other players? There are only two things that can happen imo. The player starts believing the hype or the player thinks the manager is a tool. Either way, it doesnÂ’t lead to anything good.

The guy just cannot seem to control himself when he talks, everything is so over the top and a lot of it is complete bollocks. We can see it, everyone else can see it – it’s not good for Everton FC. Note I’m not just talking about Stones here – practically every week he comes out with some utter garbage. This is all fine IF we’re playing well and getting results but not when our season has been a write off before we even got to the half way stage.

I cannot remember ever reading an interview with Martinez where he has been unhappy, angry or criticised the team or players for not performing well. I don’t agree with managers criticising players in public but at least call a spade a spade when the team has played shite instead of trying to sugar coat everything. This latest comment is just another OTT RM special to add to the list, no doubt it wont be long until the next one – Barry one of the best veteran midfielders in Europe? McGeady one of the trickiest wingers in the league?

Could you explain SPECIFICALLY how your Â’right to speak your mindÂ’ could be (or has been) denied?

You definitely appear to be suggesting that this is the case but I can see no evidence of it.

(Surely youÂ’re not offering Â’if you donÂ’t like it, donÂ’t read itÂ’ as evidence?)

I have no pathological dislike for Martinez and he seems a personable bloke. I just donÂ’t think he should ever have been appointed manager of the club I happen to support and spend money on. ItÂ’s not as though I can change allegiance to our neighbours, is it?

Switch off/donÂ’t read it if you donÂ’t like it, is logical and very sensible advice.

ThereÂ’s a difference.

There is no doubt that the potencial is there for this young man to become a top prospect but lets remember he has not yet played a full season in the premier league.

As for .R.M. he is no different from other managers who praise there players exept for the words he uses to do it.and we should all be used to them by now.

IÂ’ve, honestly, tried to take no notice of his utterings since October simply because his ultra pro Everton sayings bear no resemblance to the real state of the club.

However IÂ’ m still hopeful he will turn the state of the club around but, to be truthful, it is now more in hope than expectation.

Btw Phil, not only his brown shoes but his chewing technique as well, phenomenal.

He needs to be treated with care and it will not help him to be prematurely hailed as a European master.

Seriously though, hats off to RM and he command of the English language, but if he was to just substitute the word "Phenomenal", with "very good", he would get much less flack from all of us.

No I suppose not...but what you read (listen to) certainly is.

I mean what would your advice be for someone who read Mills & Boon novels and constantly complained Â’these are shite!Â’?

(Clue: Â’Well, donÂ’t fucking read them!Â’)

IÂ’d hope Roberto gets some time to freshen the squad this summer, he deserves some time. If itÂ’s more of the same next November/December then yes a change might be best. If he stays then all our expectations will have to change unfortunately.

Martinez arrived on these shores in 1995. HeÂ’s been in the UK for 20 (yes twenty) years working in an environment where English is by far the most predominant language spoken. I really donÂ’t think he has any issue with the English language, especially when you add the fact that his wife is Scottish.....

He needs to put down the thesaurus and speak as a normal person would... as well as stop using the word ’phenomenal’ – nothing Everton have done this season has come close to justifying that description.

ItÂ’s happened to Barkley in the past but once his performances fell off, the verdict soon reverts to Â’shiteÂ’ or Â’no more than promisingÂ’. Of course, we all recognise that Roberto sees all his geese as swans but the swing between extremes on here is mildly amusing.

But I think Stones is the most complete defender IÂ’ve seen in a blue shirt and weÂ’ve had a few goodÂ’ns down the years. He has done more than put 3-4 decent games together. HeÂ’s already doing things seasoned internationals wont even dare try.

Classy, composed, fast, strong and brave as a lion... the kidÂ’s got half a chance.

What I was trying to tease out is the phenomenon of Roberto Martinez seemingly winding people up with his media briefings. Seriously, some people on here seem to get their blood pressure up every time Roberto opens his mouth. Then they post something sparkling along the lines of "Martinez, shut the fuck up". Would it not be easier to avoid his comments altogether and not suffer from increased blood pressure?

Jeremy Clarkson winds me up no end (see also Nigel Farage, David Cameron, most the current coalition government, Robbie Savage, David Starkey, Alan Shearer and god knows how many others). So, when they are on TV, or in print etc. I change the channel or turn the page. I don’t read what these people say, because I fundamentally disagree with their world view. I’m never going to change their opinion so I don’t engage with it.

I understand that Martinez is the manager of the club that you (and I) love, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t just ignore him. You’re not obliged to respond to every little thing he says...

But, if you do choose to respond. why not engage with his comments and challenge them? Why not analyse, and dissect, what he says, showing where he’s wrong (either empirically or subjectively)? Write something cogent, interesting, analytical. But when the comment is no more than "Oi, Martinez, shut the fuck up", then I take objection.

"Nothing has changed drastically with the team either way, so everything that could have been said to criticise/defend him as already been said." — That’s hardly the point, as there is Everton news of some form every day of the week, and a healthy desire for commenting on it, that perhaps you neither share nor respect.

We have a very wide range of posters offering a very wide range of opinions, as any cursory reading of the comment threads will show. If you’re not interested in reading comments or accepting that they reflect at least some portion of Everton supporters, we might be less inclined to see your arrogant and derisory comments posted so freely on here.

Many young players lose their way due to such factors as injuries (Woodgate), gambling (Gillespie), mental illness (Collymore), booze (Gazza), drugs (fowler), outside interests (Owen), sex addiction (Didi Hamman) etc....

Let’s just hope young Stonesy avoids these pitfalls.

John is playing well at the moment in a poorly performing side. LetÂ’s see how he performs against some of EuropeÂ’s best (assuming we go that far) before he gets legend status.

John Stones has few if any doubters because, in every game, he just gets better.

I hope the lad gets his career back on track but his injuries appear to be chronic.

I know what you’re saying about Rodwell but one of the huge failings he developed was to pass the ball and then move himself in to a position where he couldn’t received it back. Barkley does it occasionally.

The most confident players always show for the ball.

ps: I agree with you otherwise...

Sid, I get your point about Jack but I still think, if only he was given a chance in central defence, his career could’ve taken a different path.

All these superlatives were used about Rooney, Rodwell and Barkley. I even heard similar words used about Cadamarteri and Jeffers (I ask you!).

Like Colin, I would like to think so, but given that only one of that lot has become a truly great player, I think we should wait until next season before according the Barnsley Boy that honour. Or would ’curse’ be more appropriate?

As for Rodwell, he is just one of those great unfulfilled talents; how many of those have we seen over the years? Stonesy on the other hand is the real deal and I still have great hopes for Barkley. I wasn’t a great fan of OFM but perhaps his slow development approach to Barkley was right after all.

One last thing about Martinez: managers fall into many categories, and one of them is never criticise players in public. In the Fergie days, a Man Utd player could get sent off for killing a player and Fergie and the special one for that matter shouts ’conspiracy’

Moving on to ’Arry, well he slags (or slagged) his players publicly; now Martinez ’bigs’ the players up which Wenger can be ’accused’ of.

I realise that we are all pissed off and everyone has a right to their point of view, but some of the posts are laced with pure hatred towards the man, his football, his language skills and probably his taste in footwear.

The jury’s out whether Martinez is up to the job and there’s a lot to discuss/debate, but the way this is going some people will be coming on here and just write Twat! Twat! Twat! Twat! etc, like some demented football chant.

As for Dave’s snidey colour of shoes comment, I’d like to state that, as an assiduous brown shoe wearer myself, I love Bobby’s choice of shoes – even though he wears Jimmy Choo’s and Gucci and I wear Clarks and Primark.

I agree with your comment above:

With the likes of Stones, Coleman, Robles, McCarthy, Barkley, Lukaku etc... the future is bright, if we can keep them.

With one proviso – they are all what I would describe for want of a better word "dashing players". To get the best out if them, you have to play them in a system that suits.

All the best Everton teams moved the ball out of defence and up the field very quickly. I would like to see our manager change his system to play to the strengths of these players.

Phil, I understand your concerns about bigging Stones up to soon – but he is different. Have a look into his eyes.

This lad has also like Lukaku expressed his football ambition – he wants to be captain of Everton and England. I think he will be.

He reminds me a bit of Tony Kay – and that can’t be bad!

Stones might be a good un but seems a bit quiet to me...

Some examples of ’phenomenal’: Ryan Giggs career, Tiger Woods blowing the field away in the US open by 14 shots, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic’s grand slam records and careers, Jack Nicklaus career, Mcilroy blowing away the field at the US open and PGA, Floyd Mayweather’s win record, Germany beating Brazil 7-1 on their home turf... you get the picture.

Something that’s not phenomenal: The performances of our players after a drab 0-0 home draw vs WBA.

It’s a very powerful word and something that you witness on very rare occasions, someone at Everton or in his inner circle needs to have a word in his ear and advise him to just stop using the fucking word and some of his problems will be solved.

Btw I’m still in the "I hope he turns it around" camp and have actually met him and had a conversation; he’s a super nice guy. I’m just a bit twitchy at this point.

So "Injuries, Gambling, Mental Illness, Booze, Drugs, Outside Interest and Sex Addiction" will hinder your career? ... Those bastards tried to tell me I woudn’t make it because I was crap.

Stones looks like he could go all the way to the top, but letÂ’s reserve judgement, Boss, and let him get on with learning his trade. Please!

Jeffers a bit different in that he was an intelligent footballer that lacked athletic attributes and any other sort of intelligence between his massive lugs.

Stones looks every bit the smart footballer. Also seems to have a head on him. Never really figured out if he has pace because he reads the game so well but it doesn't appear a weakness. Is he quick? He could do with a bit more size but that will come.

What I dread is not seeing this lad in blue when he's 26 or so.

Remember Martinez on Lukaku? Oh yes, we saw the same there, didn't we? Now our 'unplayable' and 'special' 'league's best number 10', who's £28-million price tag was 'cheap' feels, at age 21, that he's too big for Everton. I wonder why, Roberto?

Lukaku, Mirallas, McCarthy, Coleman, Garbutt, Barkley, Stones... all players that have been hyped by El Paed Piper, and all players that could go in Summer. I've never known a situation like this for potential player departures in 40 years. I think part of the blame is down to Martinez's foolish quotes, married to his inability to deliver results.

Us? Retain failing manager. Fail against West Ham, twice (who West Brom – WEST BLOODY BROM – stuff for 4-0 in the next Cup game), so loosing a golden chance to inject some of the same confidence and swagger Villa just gained.

I could weep, I really could.

Still, at least the apologists still see plenty to be positive about under Bobby! Sigh... Fiddling while Rome burns.

For somebody to tell me not to read what the manager is saying or watch interviews on television or listen on radio is an insult.

Declan (#79) - if you don't read or listen to the long list of people you name, how do you know what they are saying and therefore how can you criticise what they are commenting on?

As for the OS, of course John Stones has potential and of course he is one terrific player. We are Everton supporters and we can see good; great or not so good or not so great players - I like to think we are educated enough in football matters to recognise attributes where they are applicable.

What we don't need is for RM to go over the top with his comments. Praise their development to date; encourage but don't speak about them as if they have already arrived as the players, they will think they've nothing else to learn and wonder why Barcelona/Real Madrid; Bayern Munich are not on the phone the next day trying to prise them away into this football fantasy world. I am sure this is what has happened to Barkley.

As for RM, I can't let my post go without making my feelings yet again known that I believe we are going backwards and need to replace him without delay.

Nothing personal – nice man; great shoes – not good enough for EFC.

Shame certain other individuals donÂ’t act like he does...

Rob, I can’t mate I just can’t. The injustice of it all has left me with insomnia and loss of appetite.

However, John Stones... Yes; Besic... Yes; McCarthy... Yes; Barkley...Yes... et al.

We have a great core of fine young players but who is going to get the best out of them before they get heads turned or lose confidence?

My hope for the club is attractive, exciting football with no fear and if RM can deliver that, then great. (As many posters have said... 6 wins this season so far?!?)

If not then someone who can please and at a sensible time, pre- or post-season, make sure they are able to mine the rich talent they have at their disposal.

He'll move on one day, but he's going to have to be the world's most expensive defender to make it worth our while.

Wonder who our team will be next year? According to the utter gobshite print media, we might just have a goalie and a couple of arl arses in defence and Barry, perhaps. Not that they comment on Everton, I'm just subtracting all the players we're selling to the Sky 4+2 and mega European monster clubs like Wolfsburg.

Although Arsenal might come back in for Barry, so don't hold yer breath on that one as they were really desperate last year, according to various sources.

If we're still playing Barkley on the wing next season when Martinez will have had a chance to ensure we have 4 decent wingers, then I'll be the first to slate him for it.

Talking of good youngsters, I think we've actually got quite a glut coming through. Galloway is apparently very good, as is Grant(at Motherwell), Browning, Garbutt and Ledson. I think they will all make the first team, assuming (Grant and Garbutt) extend their contracts.

I think most of them are at the stage where they really need proper competitive action to push on. Browning certainly looked in a similar bracket to Stones when he has played, but just hasn't had the same opportunities.