Southall talks about Everton's season

If it is not the manager or the players, who is it?

Though the spark went for far too long and I don't know why. Is this a double-edged sword? - if the problem was no more than having lost the spark and needing to regain it (as we seem to be doing), then that spark can just as easily be lost again. It's more than spark, surely.

"Naismith has been absolutely magnificent and been my player of the year so far."

Smart fella, that Southall!

"Naismith has been absolutely magnificent", I think someone has been to the Martinez school of player assessment.

"When we started the season, we only really had the squad we had last season. It did well last season, but it needed another couple of bodies at least." . Well that might be because the manager spent the majority of his budget on one player.

"When David Moyes first came in, it took him 11 years to build a team that he thought was okay... and he still wasn't satisfied with that team. How long as Roberto been there?" That is just factually incorrect and he qualified for the CL in his third season. Anyone betting on this for next season?

Perhaps big Nev is referring to the chairman if it is not the manager or the players?

Terrible season, incredibly frustrating and at times I have found it difficult to watch. I still believe we need to judge him after next season. Bring in a couple more players and have a decent pre-season, surely we have learned the lesson of this season. I want him to succeed because I believe in what he is trying to do - play football. We can't buy the best so we need to build from grass roots up - I would rather that we are focusing on technical ability and creating the School of Science throughout our academy.

Quarter Final of the UEFA Cup is almost upon us!!

Interesting that he talks about two "decent" goalkeepers so he clearly rates Robles (and Howard...).

With Wolfsburg rumoured to be willing to pay £33 Million for Lukaku, it wouldn't be a bad transfer pot for a new manager would it?

That was what was said every season under Moyes.

My memory of the 84 side that got into the League Cup final and won the FA Cup was that we had recently added Peter Reid and Andy Gray. Players who had had injuries and were wanting to show people their careers weren't over. They were ideal characters who helped bring it all together. Some also might remember that a few papers had a picture of the League Cup with red ribbons tied on it to show Liverpool as the winners before the final took place. The final was apparently going to be so one-sided. Who knows. If Andy Gray had been able to play it would have been one-sided.

As many on here have said we don't seem to have a ballsy character at the moment. Perhaps doesn't have to be the best player or the most talented/creative. Not necessarily playing. Someone with fire in the belly.

Someone has already said that he might be referring to the chairman. He might also be referring to the amount of injuries that we've had put up with in such a small squad.

First up, I believe that last season our manager gave us the best season of attacking football that I've seen for years. There were people who never wanted Martinez here in the first place and grudgingly went along with the success that we had. I think those people have used what has gone wrong this season to scream that we should never have got him, he would take us down and want him to go now.. They could be right but it isn't my view.

I think our season went wrong because a combination of the number of factors. I think one factor is that we weren't able to get more players in during the Summer. My guess is that we had no more money to buy them. Unlike Liverpool who spent about 100 million adding to there squad.

Then we have had, from the first week, a big list of long term injuries throughout the season to players who we've found it extremely difficult to replace.

There's also the fact that teams had worked out how we used the wings and stifled it, how we got the early ball up to Lukaku and stifled that route as well.

We also had a manager who wouldn't/couldn't "do a Moyes" and go out to win/draw, don't get beat style of football, when it was plain we were being stifled.

I also think those who boo have a place in what went wrong as well. Everyone who goes the match has a right to express their views, let their emotion go, as that's what watching. My view is that booing is a negative factor and influences the players into a mind set of " fuck that, I'm getting rid of the ball asap", or they can freeze, like I think Barkley did, and on who I believe it had a particularly negative effect.

So I think all these factors have played a part in our season. The turnaround, (if that is what it is; and I believe it is) started as the game against Dynamo Kiev progressed. The players were extremely tentative to begin with, error prone and almost scared to have the ball.

That night, I felt the crowd, after about 20-25 minutes just began to roar them forward and didn't stop roaring for the rest of the game. I think that had an effect on the players and it was tangible that confidence/fight began to become more and more, a part of their play.

The game on Sunday was similar only our crowd started roaring on our players earlier. In both those games, without being brilliant, could have doubled the scores and both opposition teams folded more as the games went on.

So that's a part that we can play. Whether we want to or not, is up to each supporter but I am convinced it is a major factor. I can't remember but some bunch of away supporters, sang "it's like playing in a library" so they were aware of the atmosphere and were happy enough to barrack us..

There's a whole debate about whether the players have to show something to shout about first or whether the players gain in confidence by the level of support they get. I don't know but I believe we see better performances from our players when we get behind them.

There's some miserable sod who sits behind me who takes a totally negative view and has done since before I became a season ticket holder in the seat I have now. So much so, that the woman who had a season ticket there, left because of him. He's every right I suppose, to express consistently, such a miserable view of our team (even last season) but I must admit, it's making me think off pissing off to another seat.

As for whether this manager should be sacked or not, I'm of the view that the team was excellent last season. Some beieve that was Moyes influence. I disagree with that view. I think that this season doesn't depend on how we do tonight (how we play is more important). The games during the rest of the season are all important and if we stay up (and it is an "if") then I think Roberto Martinez should be given at least another year.

If he's talking about Martinez, then yes, it could be a turning point. You often need to go through a crisis for radical change, and he looks to be a broken man, and I think wounded pride is exactly what he needs.

Glad everything in the garden is lovely and that we'll have next season to look forward to as soon as we've won the Europa !

Wish I hadn't done all that worrying.

'Gis a job'

As for Big Nev? Well, I suppose he will now be considered a traitor by some but for me the big man talks loads of sense. The other fella was given time why won't some of you do the same with Martinez?

Big Nev lists them as positives moving forward but Lennon's is a loan deal that may or may not become permanent in the summer.

Mirallas has one year left on his contract and is clearly itching to go somewhere he believes he deserves. As great as he is I don't want any swelled heads at my club whose egos are bigger than their sizeable talent - Eto'o for example who could well have been the trigger to a lot of the malcontent that's ruined our early season we're starting so recover from (hopefully)

Finally, the one I am petrified may go when his contract expires at the end of this season is Garbutt. He has looked, for me, every inch the standard Baines is and delivers better corners at the tender age of 21! The little we've seen of him has been fantastic and I reckon his advisers will be itching to move him on. We must get him signed pronto!

Winning the Europa League could keep these players and attract more now that CL qualification is on offer for next season. The other teams that remain, though, are just as beatable by us as we are by them so a foregone conclusion it is not! We must win this tournament as there is no other possible route into Europe next season and if that happens the spectre of the Walter Smith era could start to rear it's ugly head.

No love lost there; I still have nightmares about this guy.

"They have had a good season under Roberto and now a shit season, so let's see the real Everton."

Couldn't agree more. RM should get a pre-season and summer transfer market and at least a crack at the first 10 games of the new season. I have faith.

This leads to Howard walking straight back into the team, Atsu hardly getting a look in, Browning never getting a look in, and Besic being pulled off even though he might be playing better than Barry and McCarthy.

This is not my opinion. Martinez has stated that this is the way he works.

Of course, this kills off all hope of youngsters making an early breakthrough and players from foreign leagues being given permanent contracts. Strangers are strictly loan material. Besic got his chance because Martinez was able to meet and have one-to-one discussions with the lad in Brazil.

Maybe one day he will have 13 or 14 talented players with no opinions of their own who wil carry out his instructions to the letter. This is probably his dream and I wouldn't knock it. Klopp and Simeone worked wonders along similar lines but they did not have to operate in the frenetic jungle of the Premier League. Martinez is not my favourite person right now but if he stays I will wish him well. It won't be easy.

Southall has never been one to mince his words; if you've read his various interviews and his book, you realise that he's a very analytical and intelligent man, with the right ethos about playing the game.

Of course, anyone can be wrong, anyone can have an opinion, but I'd sit up and pay attention whenever this guy talks football.

I haven't any rose tinted spectacles, I was ready for Moyes to go as it was apparent he had reached his limit, however there is a lot of revisionism about his tenure.

Firstly it's not that his opinion differs from mine or the fact he is a former legend, it's just he spouting a load of shite.

Do you agree Naismith has been 'absolutely magnificent' ?

Just because Big Nev is a legend, doesn't mean he is always tight. Just a thought!

As for being on the books, I don’t think he could toe the party line even if he was being paid by the club; his comments seem to be very much his own and he couldn’t give a flying fuck if people agree or not.

If someone's a legend. They're a legend, it's as simple as that. If anything the passing of time makes them even more legendary - We're not talking about the legend formerly known as Nev. We're talking about the best GK keeper in Everton's history, there's no 'former' legend about it.

That's his choice of adjectives is entirely up to him. To say that Naismith 'as been absolutely magnificent' sounds OTT. But in the scheme of things who's to argue that Naismith hasn't been magnificent when you compare him to some of our other players this season who have been shite all season.

Bit harsh; Big Nev has been known to buy a round or two.

"Let's see the real Everton" indeed. Starting tonight.

COYB

Martinez gives us our best season since '88 and half of you want to sack him at Christmas! I still can't get over some of the views spouted on here. In a parallel universe, we'd have got the run of the green in those early games and not surrendered the leads we did, and made the comebacks we should have or not given away some of the farcical goals we did, and by some slight margins we'd be in the running for top 8 at least.

Give the guy some time, hopefully we win tonight and were then only a few games from making the Champions League.

Let's not forget that Moyes bailed leaving an old side. Yes there were young players there, but he never played them. It takes more than a few weeks to rebuild a side and especially if you're going from one extreme (hoofball) to the other.

Martinez earned the right to have a shit season, last season, and as long as we win the Europa League, it'd actually be the best season we've had since '87!

That is the give away for me – that he has been 'recruited' for that blurb.

I have the utmost respect for big Nev, had photos taken with him and have a deep suspicion that he has been scripted; after all they don't talk like that in Llandudno!

They are not a 'moment' from anything on the Costa Llandudno!

'A moment?' Now where have I heard that word used??

Of course some posters would want to see the back of him.

Some were talking about relegation and to be honest, the spectre hasn't been vanquished yet.

Wouldn't really state he was left an old side Steve, especially as he upped the average age with Barry, Kone & Eto'o.

You seem to be joining him in spouting the proverbial. The adjective 'former' does not indicate he is no longer a legend but that he once was a player.

But just because he was the greatest goalkeeper I have ever seen and one of the greatest Everton players ever doesn't prevent him talking rubbish.

Of course his choice of words are his but of course your argument does not take into account his actual words. He describes him as 'absolutely magnificent' ie with no qualification, no comparisons. Totally, unreservedly magnificent.

If you cannot see the ridiculousness of this statement you truly are deluded.

By the way I quite like Naismith. Tries his nuts off, chips in with odd goal, gets in opponents faces but ultimately a limited player who makes the most of himself. Absolutely magnificent..... dream on.

But we still have one of the worst defences in the league...

Blues supporters fickle? Not us, surely.

it's your confusion of mixing up 'facts' with your opinion. You may not agree with what he says but he's not factually incorrect which you stated in your first post. That was your own opinion.

He said "When David Moyes first came in, it took him 11 years to build a team that he thought was okay... and he still wasn't satisfied with that team. How long as Roberto been there?

I would say that was factually incorrect. If we accept that by ok he means of 'an acceptable standard', would it really have been 11 years before he thought this? He wouldn't have thought that about the team that qualified for the CL, or the team that qualified for Europe on another two occasions or the side that reached the FA Cup Final.

In fact I would say Moyes had achieved everything he was going to by 2009, that was the problem, he was satisfied with that. He improved the team significantly and then plateaued over the remaining years. Mind you that plateau is looking not too bad a place this season.

First I've heard that applied to a manager, managing a first-rate Side down towards the bottom of the table.

That Moyes bailed? Fair enough. How, exactly though, was the Side he left "old?"

Howard, Coleman, Jagielka, Distin, Baines, Osman, Pienaar, Fellaini, Neville, Mirallas, Jelavic

Only the following were under 30: Coleman, Baines (28) and Jelavic (27). It was an old side.

And for the record I was also happy to see the back of David Moyes. Will Kenwright ever take on a manager that can bring back the glory days? A manager who can strike a balance between defending and attacking? A manager who knows tactics. A manager who studies the opposition , and sets up accordingly A manager who can win Everton a trophy.

Just a little question to all those who like and trust Martinez. Should BK sell up, and Everton are taken over by a Billionaire owner, who is willing to spend on players. (unlikely I know). But would you trust Martinez at the helm? Would you trust his first season?. Or this rubbish that has been ditched up this season? I know my answer.

Last comment. I saw Big Nev play numerous times. He is a real club legend. And a world class goalkeeper. I'm not going to select my favourite. But I also saw G.West play. He was also IMO right up there with the best. We have been blessed with some great keepers over the years. But unfortunately DM neglected that position(apart from N.Martyn). Heres hoping that Robles can step up. FOREVER EVERTON.

As for fickleness, I don't see any such thing. Most people still think RM is very much on the back foot after the season so far but there has been modest recent improvement and there is little immediate purpose in continuing to demand his head, as though it were a matter of principle.

Of course, if we lose tonight and against QPR then he will be under fire again and rightly so.

Fellaini and Mirallas were both under 30. In fact of the XI you name eight of them are still at the club, most of the first choice two years later.

Moyes left and I decided to get a season ticket again and I'm glad I did. This season has been dire at times but no worse than some of Moyes years. I don't forget that Moyes left us. How he left is not really the point...he left and I'm glad.

To those who ask the question that BK left and a multi Billionaire moved in that's a dream I've long held. Can't stand the geezer. However, should the impossible happen, I would be glad to see Roberto Martinez be given sums equal to, or more, than the feller over the Park and I'd trust him to chose exciting top class footballers. I certainly don't think it is nonsense that there are fans who never wanted him and couldn't wait to attack him.

Finally, I cannot ever see Neville Southall alter his opinions for anyone and to say he did it for money I think is an insult to the man. I don't think he would, or could, be a yes man. I just wish he was about 30 years younger.

As for Southall's comments, I agree that Moyes was boring and I had enough of us defending and nicking one against big boys. Martinez was a breathe of fresh air. Thereafter I suspect opinion more split and jury out but I certainly don't think we'll go down and again agree with Big Nev that Martinez deserves more time.

Sack this fucking fraud is my vote.

Nev, please you were the best goalkeeper Everton ever had Howard would need another pair of hands to be as good as you were, get your head out their arses.

Shocking defending all season

We have God only knows how many players who are over the hill that Martinez hasn't had the brains to move on (Distin, Hibbert, Howard, Pienaar, Barry, Kone, Alcaraz) the last three who should never have been bought.

His signings haven't been good enough to strengthen the team other than two who he's paid huge sums of money for (Lukaku and McCarthy). Again, Kone, Barry, Alcaraz, and Robles, haven't been anything like a success were as his only little diamond he's found (Besic), he refuses to play. The man is a clueless fraud who has to go, clearly.

ps: I'm a season ticket holder along with my two sons and my dad and I've never seen any David Moyes team play this poorly apart from the shite he inherited or had to get for free, also Moyes had partnerships all over the pitch that Martinez has destroyed (Baines - Pienaar, Distin - Jagiela - Howard, Mirallas - Coleman). Clueless clown.

The team I would have started would have been:

Robles
Browning, Stones, Jagielka, Garbutt,
Coleman, McCarthy, Gibson, Besic, Baines
Lukaku

depending how the game went, we would choose from Barkley, Atsu, Osman, Barry, and Kone as subs.

We needed a 0-0 draw and made no effort to close the other team down and stop them playing. This was our chance to save our season it reminded me of the 6-3 loss to Chelsea. Roberto must go if we want to stay in the Premier League.

I'm not saying that's good enough but if your given a budget of £10m to last ya 5 years ya can't ask for too much. Moyes had Anichebe, Vaughan, Stracqualursi, Bent, Beattie and Johnson and he was holding his own in a league with many many top strikers. Martinez on the other hand has had Lukaku, Eto'o and Kone this season to choose from, for me this is a huge difference.

Moyes couldn't attack in the same way as he had forwards who averaged a goal every 5 games (at best) were as Martinez has proven goal scorers. Had Moyes been given £28m to buy a forward I'm sure he would have taken the shackles off and attacked v big teams a little more often.

gain each to your own but for me winning 7 games from 30 with the best squad we've had in years is simply unacceptable. I think you could give most managers a base of Coleman, Jags, Stones, Bainesy, with a midfield of McCarthy, Besic, Barkley, Mirallas and Lukaku upfront I can't help but feel we would be at least 8 places and 20 points better off. Martinez must go.