A Culture of Failure

Steve Hogan 25/07/2015 73comments  |  Jump to last

As the giant roof on our neighbours' new main stand in their on-going ground redevelopment becomes an iconic feature of our city, and further highlights the demise of our own football club, it's perhaps worth trying to catalogue the culture of failure which is currently present among the guardians of Everton Football Club.

It was 2 July, 2002 that the Board of the English Partnership granted Everton 'preferred bidder' status in their stadium application for the Kings Dock on the City's waterfront. This was actually the hard part as there were a number of equally worthy applications from interested parties looking to develop the site. By 31 December 2002, the dream was officially over, dead in the water, because Everton could not raise the £30m required on their part.

Fast forward then to 2006 and Destination Kirkby when the 'move' was first mooted. The public enquiry that followed in 2008 was probably Everton's most embarrassing moment in the whole project, when the club's naïvete and that of its advisors was laid bare for all to see. Before that public debacle, Ian Ross, the club's then press officer declared, "We are talking to some of the biggest companies in the world" when asked about potential naming rights for the new stadium. Really?

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Two years later, in November 2010, a new £9m retail and administrative development opposite the Park End stand – Everton Place – was announced by Robert Elstone as "an exciting phase in the development of Goodison Park." Sorry, but I thought Goodison was not for redevelopment? Oh, by the way, did anybody check that there may be an existing 'charge' on the land?

Finally, in September 2014, the club announced that it had identified a new site in Walton Hall Park as a potential location for a new ground, along with two local partners, Liverpool City Council and Liverpool Housing Trust. In the current economic climate, who on earth would champion a 'strapped for cash' city council and a local housing trust as its 'enabling' partners? Less than 12 months later, the plan has effectively been dropped by the club, almost without a whisper.

I apologise if I seem to be going over old ground with the events of the last 15 years, but having spent the last 30 years of my career working in industry, I have never witnessed such a dereliction of duty by a major organisation with an annual turnover approaching £100m. Chief executives have been run out of town for much less, yet we have the cosy relationship between Kenwright and Elstone stumbling from one disaster to another, almost every four years. At least they're consistent!

I fear for the future of my football club almost as much as I fail to understand the tolerance of what seems like the majority of our fan base, who seem to watch as the club dies a long slow and agonising death.

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Reader Comments (73)

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Trevor Lynes
1 Posted 25/07/2015 at 17:34:12
I enjoyed the article but as a fan and representative of many who pay to watch, I am less interested in the business side of the club than I am by the playing side. I know nothing of the board’s mismanagement of the club as I am not privy to the facts.I am most concerned at the lack of investment made by the present board to improve the team squad. The fans are the only investors on a regular basis. We pay to watch (the board do not) and we buy the merchandise when we can find it.The demise of the club is plainly obvious to all the fans without needing to illustrate the business ineptitude. The club’s real fortunes are forged on the pitch and the failure to provide funds to adequately strengthen the first team squad is the root cause of the negativity.Moyes was not backed sufficiently and now exactly the same situation is manifesting itself under Roberto’s management. As soon as another club shows interest in one of our so-called targets, we drop out of the bidding. We mostly buy or loan-in players who are not wanted elsewhere. This is the reason why our best players are being weaned away. We as a club are unambitious apart from Martinez who is the positive front for a furtive management. All you have written is true and it is a big part of our demise, but what happens on the football pitch is the biggest yardstick and our lack of financial support for the manager is the root cause. This boardroom of ours are into making profits and surviving. Selling players and buying cheap.
Lyndon Lloyd
2 Posted 25/07/2015 at 18:13:02
I suppose we’ll have to wait and see just how "iconic" the new Anfield stand will be in the grand scheme of the city’s architecture but they have at least planned for and executed a "Plan B".

Let’s not forget that they, too, were forced to abandon a proposed stadium development on Stanley Park in favour of doing up their existing ground. So it’s not just Everton.

Furthermore, "culture of failure" is harsh and a little too broad-sweeping in my opinion because our own stadium projects have collapsed for very different reasons: the King’s Dock became unmanageable as our share of the costs mushroomed, and DK was a non-starter because we simply couldn’t afford it, even with the supposed Tesco subsidy.

WHP might go the same way for the same reason: it’s a massive undertaking for the club (one which by Bill’s own admission in 2011 was perilously close to being "killed" by the banks) to manage on its own given our commercial under-performance, and apparent inability to attract wealthy partners, backers and/or owners.

What is clear to me now is that a contingency plan to redevelop Goodison should have been advanced in the background. It’s late but not too late to get that moving.


John Raftery
3 Posted 25/07/2015 at 18:01:47
You are right, Steve. This is going over old ground. I would have bet substantial money on nothing happening any time soon.

At the time of the announcement about Walton Hall Park, both Kenwright and Elstone made it clear their commitment was no more than to explore an opportunity and that there was much work required to make the development a reality. From the Council’s point of view, they had done no more than tick a box by finding a site, thus fulfilling a commitment made after the Kirkby scheme was rejected and in response to the ’Keep Everton in Our City’ campaign.

There was therefore no plan as such to build a new stadium. No third party has come forward with any money to fund a project and, as we all know, neither the council nor the club have the funds available. In the meantime the local residents have registered their protests, so it is no surprise that the opportunity has been filed in the ’too difficult’ box.

Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 25/07/2015 at 18:14:55
There are enough people that are aware of this Board's continued failures on ToffeeWeb, but nothing gets done.

Failures on and off the pitch, we used to have a ground to be proud of, and a team that won at least one major honour for every decade of their existence.

'USED TO BE'S DON'T COUNT ANYMORE!!

Tom Dodds
6 Posted 25/07/2015 at 18:13:12
Aye, Steve, well put.

The problem all along in my opinion is that all in all The Everton fanbase in the main couldn’t be fuckin' well arsed. So sadly, The Reds would've chased these blood-sucking invisible, hand-in-the-till secretive loan sharks out of town and back on their perches.

And Kenwright would've been some distant local clown that right now would've been looked back on with breathtaking incredibility... sort of like those stories where a chancer / wannabe with no qualifications poses as a surgeon in a hospital.

To those who say "be careful what you wish for’? ... Piss off.


Eugene Ruane
8 Posted 25/07/2015 at 18:36:43
Steve, it is going over old ground but personally, I have no problem with that and think regular reminders are a good thing (essential?)

Trevor Lynes (1) you say - ’I am less interested in the business side of the club than I am by the playing side. I know nothing of the board’s mismanagement of the club as I am not privy to the facts’

Well I would guess that every Evertonian is less interested in the business side, unfortunately when it comes to buying/selling players and the continued lack of trophies and/or a new ground, we are all (by default) forced to take an interest in the business side.

As for not being ’privy to the facts’, well maybe we don’t know all the facts, but I suggest every Evertonian who can see past Gordon Clegg’s Boys Pen tripe can see all the evidence/facts that matter (in fact the OP mentions many of them).

Dave Lynch
9 Posted 25/07/2015 at 19:26:43
The local press are already over the new reds stand like a rash.

You would think they had just built a copy of the Nou Camp for Christ’s sake.

Meanwhile across the park.

"Do us a fucking favour, mate, sit down will yer, I can’t see fuck all and that post is doing me head in. Who scored, mate?"

Brian Harrison
10 Posted 25/07/2015 at 19:41:27
How depressing life is as an Evertonian. While other clubs are moving on we seem to be going backwards.

No big money signings so far and, to be honest, none likely to appear. Our better players constantly linked to other clubs, and most fans wondering how many will leave. The new ground that we keep getting promised looks further away than ever.

Brin Williams
12 Posted 25/07/2015 at 19:54:19
I have come to the conclusion that Eugene R is a counter puncher!!

Kevin Tully
13 Posted 25/07/2015 at 20:08:36
The trouble is, we could do with a little honesty from the club concerning these schemes. They don’t half set themselves up for criticism -- on a grand scale.

Any announcements or initiatives are there to act as a smokescreen for the gullible. The Walton Hall Park project is only an idea, a proposal which could be delivered IF the club found new owners, or the mythical greater-spotted ’investor’ Bill wants to wine & dine. If the club decided to be honest from the outset, and admit it was never deliverable under the current regime, but plans were in place should we be sold, then we would have shrugged our shoulders, but acknowledged they had at least thought about the future.

Did they even hint this was the actual truth? Did they fuck. They packaged up this latest load of hot air as an actual possible new stadium. They promoted it on the club website as "The Opprtunity."

It will end up as another PR shambles, when a little honesty from the men in charge could have easily avoided the undoubted deserved criticism which will land at Kenwright’s desk. The lies about looking for new owners, not being able to improve commercially, building a new stadium or not being able to redevelop Goodison Park are what annoys a lot of the fanbase. The club’s foundations are built on a bed of lies and half-truths. From Green to Earl, and the reasons why Kirkby was so attractive. IT problems were holding up the Park End development. Yeah, right. It’s incredible really, how they get away with it is a miracle in itself.

They take us all for fools, and anyone with any sense wouldn’t believe another word they say. You can always tell when an Everton representative is lying -- their lips are moving.

Danny Broderick
14 Posted 25/07/2015 at 20:42:23
Lyndon,

I'm sorry but it is a culture of failure. Failure to deliver is all this board have done at Everton! The debt has grown, we are always skint, we've sold off the training ground, they've made a mess of 3 ground moves, they've failed to find investment or a buyer! Have they done anything good?!

They've lied to the fan base about Goodison being impossible to redevelop, or going to lose its fire certificate. If not 'culture of failure', maybe 'deriliction of duty' would be more appropriate!

Martin Mason
15 Posted 25/07/2015 at 20:45:02
This article doesn’t really add anything that hasn’t been discussed ad infinitum since KD happened. What was its purpose?

Whatever it was, it is seriously, seriously mistaken if it thinks that the majority of fans are simply tolerant of watching as the club dies a long slow and agonising death. As the article offers no suggestions as to how the situation may be improved then I assume that the author is also guilty; otherwise, what does he propose to do to put himself above the hoi polloi?

I believe that the reality now is that the vast majority of fans appreciate the the extremely difficult position that the club is in and are supportive of the significant efforts that the board is making to turn it round. We all want exactly the same thing but we have a minority who think that it happens by magic and I see them more as the problem not the solution. It won’t happen by magic, there is no silver bullet, only hard work by the club and this needs support, not constant moaning.


Clive Rogers
16 Posted 25/07/2015 at 21:24:01
Kenwright has finished Everton as a top club. We were still one of the big 6 when he took over but are miles away from that now. Posts on this site still complain about Johnson’s reign, but the fact is, his first few years were successful, winning the FA Cup and signing top players like Kanchelskis and Barmby. He put his own money into the club, which Kenwright has never done. It was the last 18 months when his food company almost crashed and he sold Ferguson to recoup his own money that it went sour.

In contrast, Kenwright has subjected us to 16 years of decline from which we will never recover in most of our lifetimes. Almost every other club has a new or updated stadium, while Goodison Park crumbles around us. Our own CEO has described it as the worst ground in the Premier League. This season we are seeing previously smaller clubs attracting players before us and outspending us.

Kenwright and his incompetence are the worst thing to have happened to Everton in my lifetime.

Steve Hogan
17 Posted 25/07/2015 at 21:38:58
Sorry Martin, whilst I’m happy to accept criticism of any article I post on here, I have to question your motives.

As Eugene says, we DO need to be reminded of the constant failings of the custodians of our club. Can you demonstrate to me where is there any evidence of our fans organising themselves into a valid opposition group to what is going on?

By the way, if you wish to check with the Blue Union, I recently made a modest contribution to aid their financial plight as I see them currently as the only legitimate fans body who aim to raise awareness of the plight of the club; what do you plan?

Also, as a supporter of over 40 years, many as a season ticket holder, I can only wish that a group of ambitious, business savvy custodians take control of my beloved club, before any further damage is self-inflicted by the charlatans who run it now.

As a fan, that’s all I can hope for.

Ross Edwards
19 Posted 25/07/2015 at 22:32:20
We have been reduced to a club which would accept ’honourable failure’.

No vision, no ambition, no plan, almost no business sense whatsoever, and judging by the Blue Union’s interview with Kenwright a few years ago, we have a chairman that hardly knows what’s going on at the club he supposedly runs.

As for the playing side of it, as the song says, ’Roberto had a dream’, but nothing more than that. Behind his endless positivity and inane ramblings, I don’t see a plan or anything resembling an organised team.

When he first came in, it was ’I’ll get you Champions League’ and he had high ambitions. Now I think he realises nearly 3 years into the job that top 4 is a mile off unless you spend big. Now it seems he’s just content with ’European football’. 6th essentially.

So yes, I think failure and small time mentality does waft around this football club. Caution has prevailed for the last 20 years. It’s always ’careful what you wish for, we don’t want to be like Leeds’ and all that nonsense.

I tell you something, unless we get rid of this board, we could turn out like Leeds. All it takes is a poor season to end up in relegation and that’s it. I’m not saying we will get relegated any time soon but the way it’s going with this board at the helm and the way others around us are getting stronger and growing, I think the top half will soon be unachievable, never mind the top 4, unless things change, because we are stagnating.

Dave Williams
20 Posted 25/07/2015 at 22:22:22
Clive:- "still one of the Big 6 when Bill took over????

We were In dire straits with an ancient team and very few if any class players. Duncan had been sold because Johnson was unwilling to continue to underwrite the club's debt any longer and things were looking very bleak.

Bill and his board have stabilised the club. The club debt is reducing which is why mega-bucks are not available for players but we still have the best squad for many years... probably since HK left for Bilbao.

Things are not perfect by any means. We have to sort out the stadium issue one way or another; we will not break back into the Top 6 on a regular basis otherwise with RS, Spurs and West Ham all getting new or bigger stadiums but progress has to be steady, it cannot happen overnight.

When Bill took over, he said that he could not finance the club long term; that’s not his fault -- neither could I -- but the debt has been managed whilst every penny borrowed has gone towards team building.

Very few billionaire takeovers work -- Man City obviously has and Chelsea but Aston Villa has been decimated by Lerner, Man Utd carries way too much debt but the Glazers seem willing to play ball there, Portsmouth was a disaster, Wolves, Birmingham, Leeds -- there a load of clubs who thought they were on the way back with wealthy investors and look where they are now. Liverpool so nearly went bust with Hicks and the other clown -- it really is a minefield with so many people looking at the money Sky is giving to the clubs and it is so dangerous to sell out to an unknown who could just be after the Sky money, asset strip the club, and move on leaving the club in ruins.

We can all hark back to KD, Kirkby and Walton but as a club we are still alive, the debt is reducing, we have a few very valuable players and some good youngsters coming through. Life ain’t perfect but we have people who care -- and they really do -- if you speak to them you would see that.

Patrick Murphy
21 Posted 25/07/2015 at 22:54:04
Which assets would they be, Dave (20)? I agree that we haven’t been in good shape for the whole of the Premier League era; however, the club owns nothing apart from the players on the park and, if sold, they would cover the the debt but then the club would own absolutely nothing of value or worth.

The only people to have had a good time during the last couple of decades are the players and, more latterly, the CEO.

Clive Rogers
23 Posted 25/07/2015 at 22:51:50
Dave,

The club was always in the black under Moores and also Johnson. In fact, Johnson left £20M in the kitty when Kenwright took over. It took Kenwright two years to turn EFC into a loss-making operation. Loss-making has continued until the increase in TV money, even though all assets have been sold and we now rent both Finch Farm and Goodison.

The debt last year went up, not down.

Kevin Tully
24 Posted 25/07/2015 at 22:59:48
Rupert Murdoch’s millions have stabilised Everton, not the current majority shareholders.

Secondly, how the hell can anyone mention the likes of Portsmouth, Leeds or Wolves with Everton when comparing clubs? Lerner has invested £300m into Villa, imagine what we could have done with that sort of cash injection?

But, by far the most laughable comparison by Dave, above, is that Liverpool and Manchester Utd have been exposed to massive debt by their new owners. Liverpool & Manchester Utd make more from their commercial deals than our entire turnover. We may as well be in League Two financially, when compared to these clubs.

Pointing out someone else’s failure is not a defence of your own shortcomings.

Patrick Murphy
25 Posted 25/07/2015 at 23:16:20
Tony (#22)

It’s probably an Intern or a protege of his but I read somewhere that Mr Elstone now has a very good financial package, so he must be doing a good job as far as his employers are concerned.

Andrew Presly
26 Posted 25/07/2015 at 23:26:27
Can people not mention Wolves, Portsmouth, Leeds etc when talking about Everton? Please... You’re being depressing, stop it.
Trevor Peers
27 Posted 25/07/2015 at 23:28:06
Patrick, we’re beginning to become more tragic than Bleak House. If we truly are worthless, then it’s only a matter of time until the roof caves in.

Only a Man City type buyout can save us. Chilling stuff indeed.

Andrew Presly
28 Posted 25/07/2015 at 23:55:15
The situation is chilling. £4.2 million is the current spend to improve on the mess that was the last campaign. Not a peep about Stones and we’re getting ready for the season by playing Scottish teams.

The highlight of this pre-season will be seeing Rooney and Dunc come on as 85th minute joint subs in our last game. The score will undoubtedly be something like 0-2 Villarreal at the time but it’ll get a big cheer no doubt.

Eric Myles
29 Posted 26/07/2015 at 00:07:56
Dave #20, the borrowed money has not gone towards team building, player sales are the source of squad development and every year we make a profit on player trading meaning we sell more than we buy.
Patrick Murphy
30 Posted 26/07/2015 at 00:24:49
Andrew there's nothing to complain about mate £4.2m net spend is pretty good for us, as we have been below £3m for the majority of the Premier League era, mind you last season was Christmas as we had a net spend of circa £36m which took the net spend to an average of £2.26m per season since 2000.
Eugene Ruane
31 Posted 26/07/2015 at 00:36:15
Brin Williams (12) - 'I have come to the conclusion that Eugene R is a counter puncher!!'

Well I'm no Willie Pep but...there aren't many Sandy Saddlers on TW.

Jay Harris
32 Posted 26/07/2015 at 05:10:29
Dave,

"... but progress has to be steady - it cannot happen overnight"

Yes but I think 15 years of stagnation is not steady progress.

Andy Codling
33 Posted 26/07/2015 at 06:20:38
Exactly; no-one is bothered about the failures of the board but, if a dodgy looking badge is put on the shirt, then over 20,000 protest!!!!
Jim Lloyd
34 Posted 26/07/2015 at 09:14:59
Trevor, we can’t focus purely on investment in the team. That’s been bad enough over the last decade anyway. For our club to have any chance of remaining in or around the top six, we needed the Kings Dock for Everton.

Even with the Sky money now, we will be no nearer to the Olympian Heights. It might just help us from drowning in the River Styx though.

Lyndon, could you expand on the "mushrooming costs" that you have mentioned? I understood that the amount of investment by EFC was £30 million and that money was "ringfenced."

That was our chance to grow and we missed it. I think Steve’s article was very apt and whether the fans of Everton are not arsed, a bit apathetic, only interested about the doings on the pitch, doesn’t alter the fact that there is a litany of failure running right through the present incumbent’s tenure of the Chairmanship.

Two top class Chief Executives did a runner, one only staying a matter of weeks and most, if not all of our assets gone, we will tootle along like the good ship Lollypop but we will be lucky to see our team regularly reach the top six, no matter who’s in charge.

Moyes (I am not arguing about relative qualities of manager here, just pointing out what he said) compared our situation as bringing a knife to a gunfight.

Sooner or later, if we cannot afford a new stadium, and in my view that is an unlikely occurence indeed, Goodison Park will need to be re developed, as this will be the only option. Otherwise the place will start falling apart.

In the meantime though, we will fall further and further behind. If we want to encourage more young kids to support Everton, then we need success to do so and to do that we need investment in all aspects of the club, not just the team

Dave Williams
35 Posted 26/07/2015 at 10:58:56
By 'asset strip', I mean the selling off of players followed by the club going down the leagues.

If Johnson left £20M behind in surplus funds then I am happy to be corrected – my recollection was that Duncan had to be sold because he wouldn’t guarantee the overdraft any longer?

I am no happier with our stagnation than most but I don’t believe the board has taken out money personally and without true wealth on the board there is no magic wand.

Commercial revenues such as those generated by RS and MU have to be established via success which we haven’t of course had for a very long time. Our stagnation started in the eighties when we had the best team and stood still as far as commercial development and ground improvement was concerned and instead wasted a fortune on substandard players. Heysel played its part but, even so, a lot more could have been done off the back of two league titles and a European trophy in 3 seasons.

Tony Abrahams
36 Posted 26/07/2015 at 11:02:54
Trevor 27, did you know that Shiekh Mansour looked at Everton, before purchasing Man City? According to Mr Kenwright, they did anyway!

Not only has he failed us, he’s also lied to us. If only for that 'ring-fenced' money!!!

Enough of the negatives.... WE'RE EVERTON, AREN'T WE? We have spent £2.26 million, every year since the millennium.

Kevin (#24), if people just concentrated on Everton, I’m sure we could find a way out of this almighty mess. Unfortunately not enough people seem bothered; otherwise, Bill's trainset would have crashed fucking years ago.

Clive Rogers
37 Posted 26/07/2015 at 11:32:31
Dave,

Ferguson was sold because Johnson's food company, Park foods, was in serious trouble. The shares had collapsed. He had lost his fortune. He sold Ferguson, then EFC FOR £25M to use the money to save his company. By cashing in on Ferguson, he was taking out money he had previously put into the club.

Raymond Fox
38 Posted 26/07/2015 at 11:28:27
Here’s a list of average home attendances for 14-15 season, in thousands:

Man Utd 75.
Arsenal 60.
Newcastle 50.
Man City 45.
Liverpool 44.
Sunderland 43.
Chelsea 41.
Everton 38.
Spurs 36.
West Ham 34.
Aston Villa 34.
Leicester 32.
Southampton 30.
Stoke 27.
WBA 25.

Newcastle and Sunderland have grounds that can hold more if they were successful we have not.
Man Utd are out on their own, while Arsenal are easily second best.

If, by a minor miracle, we could win something and have a team that are serious challengers for league honours I could see us having crowds of 50,000. Maybe the Goodison site could be redeveloped to hold 50,000?

Problem is, I can't see either occurrence happening unless a new super rich owner can be found.

Jim Hourigan
39 Posted 26/07/2015 at 12:20:25
I have very recently had a conversation with a friend who is well known in sporting circles at both English and International level -- not football. However, his contacts include some highly placed members of football clubs, including ours.

To my great disappointment, he says Everton are recognised as having a small-minded approach, with little or no vision for the future of the club in the modern business world. His quote was " they are more interested in putting up the price of programmes, pies and pints than growing the club".

In effect, they will screw us supporters first rather than look for genuine investment and move the club forward. Clearly I have to be careful with how much I say, in case he and his contacts are identified, but it would also be fair to say that conflict exits on the direction the club is going at a variety of levels within the club.

It appears it's not a culture of failure that exists but rather a culture of laissez faire with the top man quite happy to trundle along oblivious to the harm it is doing... Nero fiddling!!! Others want change but are being stopped and, if they push too hard, are removed.

Frank Crewe
40 Posted 26/07/2015 at 12:14:49
How many times do we have to read this same old rubbish? Another untrue rehash of why everyone is doing better than us. It’s bollox.

There have been 47 clubs in the PL since it’s inception in 1992. Everton are one of only 7 clubs, (with Arsenal, Aston Villa, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester United, and Tottenham Hotspur) that have remained in it since then. That in itself is a success considering the other 6 have spent far more than us. The mighty Man City went down 2 divisions before the money bag owners arrived and started throwing cash at them.

The fact is that times change. Back in the days of the maximum wage, the likes of Blackpool, Burnley, and Bolton were considered to be top clubs, winning leagues and cups, with big name players such as Mathews and Lofthouse playing for them. Then came Jimmy Hill. So those clubs fell away because they couldn’t compete with the wages the big city clubs could offer on the back of the bigger crowds they could get.

Now the '60s and '80s were our time. The wealth gap wasn’t the abyss it is today. Generally speaking the bigger clubs such as Everton had a reasonable chance of actually winning the Football League, the FA Cup, and we did. Clubs lived within their means. Players were bought from profits the clubs made or by selling someone else. You could build a decent side for a relatively small outlay. Salaries were kept within a proper level.

Then came the Premier League, Bosman, and the oligarchs and billionaires. The rest is history. Clubs such as Chelsea, Man City, and Man Utd live on borrowed money and regular infusions of cash from their billionaire owners. Clubs who do not have billionaire owners simply cannot compete. Wages have become an obscenity, especially in these austere times for the rest of us. Because of Bosman, contracts are not worth the paper they are written on, and it’s every player for themselves, as the recent Sterling and maybe Stones episodes have shown us.

Since the start of the Premier League only 5 clubs have won it: Man Utd - 13, Chelsea - 4, Arsenal - 3, Man City - 2, and bringing up the rear on the back of the late Jack Walker’s cash, the now relegated Blackburn who were rich for 15 minutes with their solitary win.

The fact is, unless we can get a billionaire of our own to throw cash at us, our chances of ever winning anything again, or holding on to any quality players we may get, are very slim.

So, for the time being, all we can do is try to run the club sensibly. Don’t go nuts spending money we don’t have, like the late lamented Leeds Utd did, and stay in the Premier League until our fairy cashmother comes along and grants all our wishes.

Clive Rogers
41 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:08:16
Frank,

With our debt and ancient ground, it is unlikely anyone will buy us, as there are much better options.

Richard Jones
42 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:11:24
Very difficult to find the billionaire Frank when the owner won't name his price!!
Frank Crewe
43 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:19:13
@Clive and Richard.

Do you guys seriously believe that there is a line of billionaires panting at the bit to buy Everton and all that's stopping them is Kenwright not naming a price?

The owner doesn't have to name his price. People don't become billionaires by not knowing the value of things. It would not be difficult for any prospective buyer to figure out how much Everton is worth.

Nobody wants to buy Everton. The cost of bringing the ground up to spec or building another one is prohibitive. Then there is the cost of buying and paying the type of players we would need to be a serious contender again.

Eugene Ruane
44 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:30:38
Raymond (38) - Well as sure as eggs are eggs, Spurs will jump over us the moment their new gaff opens.

Harder to know with West Ham though, they'll certainly have the capacity (at 54,000) to leap-frog us and no doubt it'll be chocker for their first couple of games, but I believe their move has the potential to really hit the skids.

For most of my life, West Ham have been a fairly light-weight footballing outfit, but the combination of the design of The Boleyn and it's intimidating right-on-top-of-you support, made sure trips there had a scary factor for visiting sides (never mind supporters).

That will go when they go - by moving to the Olympic stadium, they'll be making life a little easier for their opponents.

David 'pimp' Gold confidently predicts they'll sell it out every game and if they do, that will be some achievement - adding 20,000 supporters per game (about £15m a season more through the gate).

I can't see it myself - I personally know three life-long West Ham season-holders (early 50s) who won't be renewing once they move and I'll be curious to see how many others feel that way.

Kevin Tully
45 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:36:48
Frank, as far as I can see, you’re the only poster who is calling for a ’billionaire’ then you go on to destroy your own straw man.

The fact is, the current majority shareholders haven’t put a penny into Everton FC and they have also declared they have no intention of ever investing in their own business.

My question is, why does this issue have to be black & white? A billionaire or nothing? It’s a childish argument to be quite honest.

A board with a plan to improve us in every feasible way would be a start. After 16 years, I think it’s clear that the majority shareholders have demonstrated they can keep us in the Premier League - by taking out exorbitant loans, long-term mortgages, selling any assets, and making money off player sales.

Not exactly the dream business plan we all hoped for, was it? 10 years with Kitbag, 11 years with Chang (soon to be 13) surely demonstrates the MO of a board who are happy to stagnate.

Frank Crewe
46 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:55:36
@Kevin.

I see. So we should have a "sensible" business plan to move the club forward? Like Villa, Leeds, Newcastle, Spurs, etc etc. What’s their plan? What have they been doing for the last 16 years to turn themselves into Premier League Champion contenders? Oh wait. Nothing. They are no nearer to actually winning anything than we are and haven’t been since the PL started.

You can have all the business plans and schemes you like but it is impossible to compete with clubs who spend money like water and rack up vast losses that are conveniently covered by their mega rich owners.

Kevin Tully
47 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:05:27
Frank - would you go into your place of work and point at a colleague who had been asleep at his desk all morning, then say to your boss "At least I’m awake."

Have you any idea what these clubs have spent? If we have the spending power of Spurs, or Villa, I’ve no doubt we have spent many happy years in the Champions League. We certainly would not have to have sold players to satisfy the banks.

One other question, Frank. Are the clubs you mention borrowing at 10% interest rates from off-shore financial entities?

Patrick Murphy
48 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:06:53
Bob Lord = Bill Kenwirght;
Everton one day in the not too distant future, will = Burnley.

If you don’t plant the seeds, you can’t expect a prize-winning garden.

For 16 years, Bill has looked out of the window and dreamt of having a magnificent stadium but we still wait with baited breath for any movement on that front as the once magnificent old lady ages before our very eyes.


Declan Brown
49 Posted 26/07/2015 at 13:55:56
We will not be moving to a new stadium under this current board; stop dreaming about it, it won’t happen. The net spend of circa £3M on players per year for the Premier League era should give you a strong indication of how dire our finances are in football’s Sky cash-rich golden era.

Finch Farm isn’t ours, Goodison Park has multiple mortgages against it to the point that we couldn’t even erect a tribute area to Dixie Dean, never mind Everton Place. As for Kings Dock I’ll stop now because my blood pressure is rising rapidly and I’m not even 40 yet.

The money will never be there to enable it, stop buying into Kenwright’s deluded fantasy world he uses to keep the fans off his back while he kicks the stadium issue can down the road again once every few years.

Looking back, the vision of the club has always been short term, the Park End was built for £1.3M with European funding; how much more would it have cost (including getting the foundations right to support it) to put another tier on top, even adding another 6,000 on the second tier and expanding the lower tier would have given us a bigger stadium than Liverpool years ago, thus more income which could have helped the club to grow commercially?

How much would it have cost to put a steep single tier stand like the Kop behind the Park End, the Kop being a rat infested edifice that it is, on the Park End, or a steep stand like Dortmund’s Kop? Be brave, think big, the long term benefits would pay it off quickly.

With no new stadium, let’s rebuild Goodison stand by stand in incremental steps, Tom Hughes proved it could be done on the current footprint and his work is published in great detail on this site. Now I’ll raise all your blood pressures with the following solution...

If the Sky money is only balancing the books, would anyone consider selling 4 big name players (Lescott, Fellaini, Stones, Rooney etc) over a 5-10 year period (that’s 4 players over that 5-10 year period by the way) for £30m+ each, to fund the redevelopment of the 4 stands? Once these are completed, the stadium issue is put to bed. How bad or good is that idea given our financial circumstances and Kenwright’s reluctance to sell?

Realistically it needs a Moyes-like manager to find hidden gems, polish them and make them the desired £30m+ players to do this, but we’ve already proved we can do this once every 2-3 years. Credit to Moyes there, it’s his players that he found, developed and sold for vast profits.

Whether it all can be done for a total of around £120m but at least Kenwright keeps his hands in his pockets, so we win and he wins, despite the fact I despise him for his stewardship, but being realistic, it’s making the best of a really bad situation and it moves us forwards, which will be a novelty for our board.

Those who defend Kenwright over the club’s finances during his 16 years as Chairman, for me, they live in a Walter Mitty style world. Back in the real world he has been a disaster for us.

What do you think guys? Would that be something we could all accept knowing the short term pain would be a long term solution for the club given it’s dire position right now?

Frank Crewe
50 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:12:48
I’ve no idea. Unfortunately they don’t keep me abreast of their financial dealings. I’ll get on to Learner or that fat slug running the barcodes and ask them shall I?

In the meantime I do know that clubs richer than us have been relegated in the last 16 years:

Newcastle: 55,000-seater stadium and all went down,
Sunderland, 48,000-seater stadium, down;
Leeds, 45,000-seater stadium, down,
Man City, 48,000-seater stadium, went down.

Whatever financial plans these and other comparable clubs had obviously didn’t work for them.

At the risk of repeating myself. The only business plan that actually brings success in the PL is get a billionaire owner and spending money like it’s going out of style. Anything else is just treading water hoping you don’t sink.

Kevin Tully
51 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:32:05
Frank, we admittedly may not be able to win the League, but is that really an excuse for letting Goodison rot, and signing the first commercial deal thrust under our nose?

Are we going to be sitting in a dilapidated stadium 20 years down the line, and saying "Ah well, we’ll never manage to catch up to Crystal Palace or West Ham now."

The likes of Southampton and Swansea will be in a far better position than us soon; TV money has evened out the playing field for the also-rans. These are clubs who went bust not so long ago.

Doing nothing because other clubs have richer owners is not an option. We may as well throw in the towel right now.

Let me just say this, by the time the Chang & Kitbag deals come to an end, we will have one of the worst commercial incomes in this division. We will also be playing in the oldest, most run down stadium in the Premier League. That’s the trajectory of the club -- totally downward.

Ged Simpson
52 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:43:02
Apart from northern powerhouse Manchester and the most successful English team (Reds), look at teams doing little or nothing. Tyneside/Weaside, Northwest, Midlands.

And where do the super Rich live?

Down south.

Frank Crewe
53 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:46:00
Well it’s going to be a bit difficult to catch the Hammers if they’ve been given a 54,000-seater stadium. Maybe if we can wangle the Olympics into Liverpool and then take over any left-over Stadium. Although that seems unlikely.

I don’t see how Swansea or Southampton will be any better placed than us. If Stones was playing for them, they would be under the same pressure to sell him as we are. Southampton have already sold their best players and will no doubt do so again. Swansea’s best forward went to Man City. Aston Villa have lost Benteke and Delph (for a measly £8 million btw) with less than 2 weeks to the start of the new season.

Some of the "also-rans" are doing a little better than us and some are doing worse but they are still "also-rans", regardless of the state of their grounds.

Richard Jones
54 Posted 26/07/2015 at 14:53:08
I'm sorry, Frank, but I think your being incredibly naive. If I’m selling my house I need to tell people what I value it at and if my house needs a new roof then the value I place on my house should be reflected in my asking price.

The only reason I can logically think that Bill has not stated his price is because, as he has stated in the public inquiry, Everton is not for sale. Or he's very embarrassed at the amount he wants for the club because this would expose the fact that he doesn’t want what's best for Everton but he is, in fact, more interested in making a huge profit for his shares.

Eric Myles
55 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:11:56
But Frank #53, you forget that Southampton sold most of their best players at the beginning of last season and still finished higher than us, as did Swansea.

Did you think that they would be better placed than us at the start of last season (not to mention Stoke and Palace!!!)

Eric Myles
56 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:28:25
Declan #49, up to now we have had to sell off our star players to be able to fund purchases of other 2-3 other players. Following your scenario in selling the stars to fund stadium redevelopment, how are we going to be able to field a team of 11 players??
Eric Myles
57 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:42:16
Jim (#39): "they are more interested in putting up the price of programmes, pies and pints than growing the club".

All activities that are outsourced and bring no income into the Club.

Clive Rogers
58 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:44:43
Frank (#43),

That’s what I said. Nobody wants to buy us. We’re not for sale either.

Declan Brown
59 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:42:23
Eric, up to now that strategy was based on income streams much lower than what’s coming in from next season onwards.

Once this new Sky deal kicks in, even surviving, i.e. 17th guarantees us (and everyone else) an extra £30m+ per season for Sky, foreign TV rights and final position alone, a top ten finish would bring in nearly an extra £10m compared to recent years. So there’s the extra money needed for the 2-3 players per season (discounting other player sales and savings in wages from those sales).

But we’d have to remain in the "buy low sell high" strategy until the stadium is totally redeveloped. Find a few more gems like Lescott, Stones or Coleman, develop them, then sell one of them at a high price to get extra funds to cover the redevelopment costs for a stand at a time? Buy them young, thus also reducing the average age of the squad too.

Could we not do this to get at least 2-3 stands done and start making progress in this area first, get the foundations right, maybe even buy back our training facilities and own all of our assets again? You can’t keep selling the family silver; once it runs out, what else do you sell? At some point you have to start getting these assets back again. Apart from the players, what else has Kenwright left to sell?

At least this way, it sorts the Goodison issue without costing £300m-£500m for a brand new stadium with the same capacity.

Frank Crewe
60 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:45:15
@Eric

None of those clubs were in the Europa League; we were. We haven’t got a squad that can cope with two demanding competitions.

@Richard.

As for being naive, I think it’s you who’s being naive. If someone like Abramovich wanted to know how much Everton was worth, I’m sure he’s got plenty of people who can find out for him.

As for Kenwright waiting to make some huge profit from his shares. If that was ever his plan, I’m sure we are way past it now. Our shares are worth what they are worth and nobody will pay over the odds to acquire them.

Eric Myles
61 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:01:07
Frank, what has Europa League got to do with it? We were playing better in EL than in EPL. The reason why we didn’t finish above them was tactics.
Frank Crewe
62 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:07:42
@Eric

Well what does tactics have to do with the finances, or lack thereof, of Everton FC? That’s the manager's problem.

Eric Myles
63 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:05:04
Declan #59, we’ve already been in a period of bumper telly rights deals for the last few years and where has that gotten us? Increased debt and buy-to-sell player transfer policy the same as before we had the additional extra £30m+ per season.

What makes you think anything will change with the next new deal?? The rest of your post I agree with but the board have shown that they have no intention of considering redeveloping GP.

Eric Myles
64 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:11:39
Frank (#62), tactics determine where we finish in the league.

Your premise was that Southampton and Swansea will finish below us because they have sold their best players, I disproved that by pointing out that both finished above us despite selling their best players. How? Because of tactics.

Brin Williams
65 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:12:43
ER 31 - Brin Williams (12) - 'I have come to the conclusion that Eugene R is a counter puncher!!'
Well I'm no Willie Pep but...there aren't many Sandy Saddlers on TW.

Now you're talking, in fact not many of either of them around more the pity.

Bill Gall
66 Posted 26/07/2015 at 15:50:22
Martin #15. Re your statement of "the club needs support, and not constant moaning"...

To answer your first point, just check the average gates over the last 10 years, with last season showing a remarkable figure of over 38,000 and that indicates that a majority of games were sell-outs. So the club has definitely had the support.

Regarding your second point. It will not matter how good a club is or how successful, there will all ways be people consistently moaning. (It's just some people's human nature.)

Richard Jones
67 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:07:23
Exactly, Frank, they're "worth what they're worth" and if Kenwright is asking for more than they are worth -- is that the reason we are not being sold and therefore the reason Kenwright won't tell us what he wants for them?

Don’t forget, those shares keep going up in value with every new increased TV deal, so why would we be past it if he's holding on for a bigger profit? I’m sorry, Frank; you're expressing childlike naivety not to even consider this as his motive.

Eric Myles
68 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:17:08
Frank (#60): "Our shares are worth what they are worth and nobody will pay over the odds to acquire them."

Our shares are valued around £1,200 each, valuing the Club at around £42M so considering the rumoured asking price of £150M then you are correct. So we will never be sold.

John Hughes
70 Posted 26/07/2015 at 16:58:22
Just read about the way they are building skyscrapers in China 1 every few days, there's the answer get in touch with Le Tei tell him to get a gang of builders over here - job done Park End and Main Stand finished in a month
Tony Abrahams
71 Posted 26/07/2015 at 21:17:56
Jim 39, your post makes so much sense.

Martin Mason
72 Posted 27/07/2015 at 09:25:32
Bill, we have fantastic support from the large majority, they are simply the best and they have every right to have their say. My down is not on them.
Christopher Kelly
73 Posted 28/07/2015 at 07:00:58
Every fan needs to look themselves in the mirror. 20 years of no silverware, no hope and now no chance, and not a peep aside from The Blue Union and a couple hundred die-hards. Is it a winner that we want or a couple of hours away from the missus every week? I fear the latter.
Thomas Lennon
74 Posted 28/07/2015 at 07:34:56
Always strikes me as odd when we are looking enviously at our opponents new stadia and confidentially predicting their future dominance over us powered by that construction, that our new 50-55 000 project was only going to earn £6 million more than we get now. Can it be true that that figure was too low?
Eric Myles
75 Posted 28/07/2015 at 08:23:16
Thomas, that figure was optimistic as it was based on 50,000 capacity when in fact the capacity would have been capped at around 42,000 due to transport limitations.
Eric Myles
76 Posted 28/07/2015 at 08:27:18
It’s not so much the extra capacity that is the main money generator, it’s the corporate and lounge facilities for a match. Then on top of that there’s non-match use, conferences, weddings etc.
Thomas Lennon
77 Posted 28/07/2015 at 20:17:42
I didn't realise we were planning building a brand new stadium with no top class corporate facilities... Nonsense.
Martin Mason
78 Posted 29/07/2015 at 07:59:51
Christopher, do you feel that winning "silverware" is the only measure of success for a football club?
Richard Jones
80 Posted 29/07/2015 at 19:54:29
Martin, how else can a football club be measured?

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