Martinez delivers a warning to under-performing stars

So in a nutshell, I believe that he is saying that prior to this weekend, the Goodison fans have been responsible for bad results, but now the are also responsible for bad performances. Using season ticket holders and paying supporters as a "get out of jail free" card for inept performances of his making is close to despicable.

So, on that basis we can drop him as manager immediately?

Desperation to save his own skin for his own underperformance (which is actually par for the course for his own record). Pathetic!! But signals a harder line behind the scenes which is good for the club.

That may have contributed to Saturday's under performance but not to the disaster we have had this season.

It is Martinez insistence that this is a rarity, and then linking it to self preservation by the players, that is so frustrating.

Hopefully this rallying cry will have the desired effect although I have my doubts. Unlike others I think we will put in a good display in the Semi and perhaps the derby but only because the players appear to find their own motivation on a big stage.

What I don't see happening is a change to our league form. Given the gauntlet thrown down by Martinez, it will be interesting to see if he has the guts to follow through with his threat. If he does, we may have a weaker line up on the pitch, if he does not, he will surely have lost his authority.

Either way, it looks increasingly like we are reaching a tipping point in this regime.

Arsenal came to win, got two goals that better defending and organisation would have dealt with. Barkley, McCarthy and Cleverley not getting behind the ball and Funes Mori gets exposed to slick passing by committing himself forward.

If we put up a wall of defenders then it takes something special or a mistake. We don’t have a well-drilled defence and have too many lazy players not doing the hard yards teamwork.

"We missed Barry" is hardly an excuse given he had played in the seven other home defeats. McCarthy runs and runs and wins the ball but it ends up with a backpass to the 'keeper.

I am over this shit way of playing as we never beat the teams above us in the table. The cattle on the paddock is not Barcelona and not even a close imitation and on Saturday we resembled the hoofball Wimbledon and look where they are now.

FFS, the board need to show some balls and get shut. Bring Peter Reid and Kevin Ratcliffe in on a caretaker basis and do it now.

They seem incapable of a run of form, why is that. Personally I have lost faith in the team not just the manager. And to add insult we see our new half owner having a good laugh in the stands when were two nil down and playing like we don't care.

Now that is worrying..... If I was a season ticket holder I would be thinking long and hard whether to renew if they keep Martinez as the manager..

My view on the debate about the players being hindered by the negative crowd is simple, play like you played against Chelsea and the crowd will get behind you. It’s your job to entertain, play with passion and make those loyal knowledgeable fans feel proud.

At the moment most of us are feeling let down, embarrassed and frustrated.

Mr half owner (I won't call you by name until you earn my respect, by showing us some respect. How can you laugh when all around you, the fans who have paid good money are feeling as low as a snakes belly?)

A representative poll of some of the hysterical screams on here for the last two years would show my point. The clamour to shout "I told you so" is apparent.

Having said all that, I agree with the point made above re the timing of the statement. Too little, too late.

Money = Expectation = Pressure.

From the sound of the squeal that pressure is being applied pretty quickly.

Yes Roberto, there is a lot of talk about the Semi Final...mostly about how it's only the Semi keeping you in a job.

Deadman walking here, deadman walking the blue mile.

What does that even mean.

Man is a coward and a loser, worst possible combination.

A successful team is built on a good manager, good coaching team supporting, fitness, team spirit and sound tactics. Fans don't even come into it.

The home form and Martinez’s situation does need to be addressed, but when there’s forty-odd year old’s heads falling off at the first misplaced pass, it’s no wonder the away form is a lot better.

You're kidding, right? 8 losses out of 16 with only 4 wins is playing really, really well? What happened to NSNO?

I’m sick of hearing the same jargon, the lame pointless excuses after a woefully inept performance.

We have had virtually 2 years of steady regression and if Martinez is kept on with his coaching staff beyond this season then we can look ahead to another season of further regression while progressive clubs already above us continue to push forward.

Under Martinez it doesn’t even feel like we are in a position to even stand still anymore.

Moshiri – please put him and thousands of us fans out of our misery.

GET SHUT NOW!

Still, I agree with him that it was a poor performance.

I only watched the first-half but we clearly missed Barry.

What we are seeing now is the breakdown of the marriage of fan and team, when small things irritate beyond tolerance to the point where if the relationship doesnt improve (success on the pitch) then the inevitable divorce occurrs with the departure of the manager and breakup of the team.

Martinez OUT!

As Danny Murphy quite simply stated on Match of the Day last night, it shouldn't be happening!

The only thing that has saved us from being in a relegation battle this season is Lukaku's goals, without them we'd be minus six goal difference and struggling to even draw many.

I went with the thoughts that I would be able to see Everton perform like a team Martinez has promoted, top four prospects with the best squad in years.

It is not just Saturday's result but the way we played acknowledged as the worst display this season, leading on from a good result against Chelsea.

In reverse order, some others said and I agree that we won because of a wonder goal and with a lot of hunger to chase and close down the opposition.

This season having won four home games we have sat through the same repeat the same mistakes over and over again, from tip tap around the back to statues when trying to pass to our own players, to starting like we have not turned up and only ( sometimes) coming to life when a goal down.

Substitutes that most cannot make sense of after waiting so long to change things as the crowd can see the set up was not working, no plan B,

This has been going on all season is it any wonder the fans are apprehensive we do not know which Everton will turn up, we the fans do and then it's our fault!

Perhaps we should all stay away and the team with RM would feel like they where away and would perform like champions, perhaps this is what RM does with his game plan at home winning 5-4 on his home game set, but in the real world the fans keep turning up to be served the same rubbish week after week with the letdown after reading all the articles by the manager and players about how the next ten, nine , could go on but hopefully you get the point.

I want to come next season, but if Martinez is in charge I do not want to be in the crowd watching Everton go into the Championship, make no mistake if he stays that will be where we will end up and the roll of top flight games proudly shown each match will be silent for seasons to come.

That leaves a lot of room to manouevere with regard to the wage bill and bringing in new faces. This summer could see the biggest overhaul of the playing staff in years.

On the basis he's talking about then he should have been long gone last season

I think the penny may just have dropped with Martinez...as in "Shit I might get bounced out of a job here if this continues."

You can't go on week after week living in cloud cuckoo land and telling everyone, including the players, how wonderful things are, how we're NOT under performing, and how the club is being driven forward.

This is too little too late and smacks a little bit of desperation.

I wanted to take the opportunity of getting the "early bird" season ticket for next season when it comes around, but I won't buy one AT ALL if he's in charge.

He should have shut up, kept his words for the players only, listened to them and their concerns and changed the style of play accordingly. To publically threaten the players will just alienate them more. You settle them and make them want to go because they can’t be enjoying playing under him just as much as we can’t enjoy watching it.

He is on the slippery slope now all too aware that the easy ride he has had previously with the board may now well be over. He is playing for his position as manager.

Look at yourself Gaffer, and think about the formation you keep throwing on us maybe?

We beat Chelsea, because we had balance on both sides of the pitch, which gave us a base to stay in the game, and get the crowd involved. Same happened against City, in the first leg at Goodison.

We were doing alright in the away leg as well, until you brought on Kone, to go and support Lukaku, instead of just going like for like, with Lennon.

We all know Lukaku, needs support, but the way you consistently go about it is just ridiculous. Getting one of our wide players, to go and push in behind the striker, just leaves us so exposed, and just opens the pitch right up for the opposition.

It's fucking madness, and to expect the players to listen to you, when you keep making the same stupid MISTAKE, will lesson with every game.

Even when we had good spells on Saturday, it was so easy for Arsenal, because instead of going from right to left, we had to go back right. And you wonder why one of their players made so many interceptions?

Far from being aggressive or vocal, when I’ve been to GP the fans to their credit have been patient and placid, trying to see some kind of method in the madness of Roberto’s busted flush of management. It’s Wigan Mk 2.

He should be thanking our supporters for turning up in their legions, but no the gutless one blames everyone and anyone but himself for his shortcomings.

Presumably James McCarthy is now out of the squad indefinitely or do we still need players to "drive Everton backwards or sideways"?

We have our worst ever home record EVER in sight and he comes out with this: "And I think we have been playing really, really well at home".

I am beginning to dislike him even more for his prose than for his performance. And that’s quite something.

The team always looks unbalanced and on the left especially, players are unsure what to do in a three man defence, and Lukaku needs closer support. Heaven knows where would have been without Lukaku’s goals, and if he were to be injured?

As for the fans, they pay good money and expect a performance, they can stand bad luck if a shift is put in, and they stand and applaud the team of due to merit. The booing at the end of the game was right on this occasion.

Take the two performances, Chelsea and Arsenal: the Chelsea game, the players came out and played with energy, movement, tackled everything that moved, gave a 100% the whole game, the crowd roared the team onto the pitch and remained vocal in their support of the team, getting feverish in key moments of the game.

Contrast that to the Arsenal game, the players were again roared onto the pitch, the players started well for the first five minutes then, after the goal, the crowd again urged them on but got no response from the players. There was no energy no verve, no movement and shamefully not an inch of a fight from most of the players.

There is something wrong inside the club, it is most definitely not the fans, most of us live and breathe Everton. I hope Mr Moshiri listens to the the right people at Everton and not the man he bought the club off.

Fast forward seven days and the atmosphere was almost non-existent, the reason, the majority of the fans don’t have faith in the manager or his game plan and realistically there was little to play for and little to cheer as the team mostly went through the motions yet again!

Is it possible that the players who would have been aware that the new investor was in attendance wanted to show him that the Chelsea match wasn’t typical and that Bill Kenwright’s gushing testimonial for Martinez was totally unwarranted. I don’t know if that’s the case, but the contrast in effort and attitude were poles apart and there has to be a reason other than ’cup fever’.

If the manager or captain can’t identify why it happens, what chance do we as paying supporters have of understanding it. Martinez and others at the club have to realise that Everton the club is at its best when ’everybody’ directors, staff, players and fans are all on the same wavelength and it’s up to the manager to ensure the team provide the supporters something to shout about and the fans are there in their thousands to react to what they see – but in certain matches the crowd do take a pro-active stance such as in the Chelsea cup tie, Bayern Munich (85), Liverpool (94), Wimbledon (94), Man United (95) and many others but we can’t as fans do it every single game it’s up to the manager and players as the professionals to set the tone in the bread and butter games.

If the current manager doesn’t get that or isn’t capable of it then the new owner should shake his hand and wish him well and get a manager who can.

Now it just smacks of desperation and having lost the dressing room.

Reminds me of a fish flapping out of water.

If we get beat one more time at home we will equal the record for home defeats....ever!! That includes the pitiful Mike Walker season of 94. And we played 42 games that season!! Only Troyes in France have a worse home record than us in the whole of Europe!
We must win ALL of our remaining home games to avoid being labelled the worst home performers in Evertons history. We currently have 16 home points. Using 3 points for a win, we collected 24 in 1888/89 and 1957/58. That's how bad we have become.

Moyes, given his resources, had a pretty formidable home record. Nobody liked coming to Goodison. The fans were hostile and, for most part, the players played like they cared. Sure we had our disasters but you just knew the next game there would be a reaction and would be a different result. I didn’t see anybody pointing fingers at the fans then for any kind of poor performances.

Truth is, that is just a cheap shot on the fans that turn up week after week, paying hard earned cash for season tickets to watch the gutless rubbish we are witnessing now. The stats are there for all to see. We are awful. This season has been suggested that it is an improvement on last season, however, the home record is in danger of surpassing all the depressing loser records!!

Paul, you justify your support in Martinez all you like, but don't try and blame the fans for this disaster. Do you even go to the game? Martinez is so out of his depth it's untrue. It's taken him this long to finally concede something we have known for some considerable time. We have no passion. The football, for most part is pedestrian and unstructured and players don’t know what their duties are.

Players should take a portion of the blame, but the manager sends the players out onto the field with tactics totally unsuited to the players ability. There is no work ethic and no desire to keep a clean sheet. A manager that states he would rather win a game 5 4 rather than 1 0 should never be anywhere near a premier league football team. Can you imagine Ferguson, Mourhino, Kendall, any if the successful RS managers et al actually saying that? Absolutely not. Every successful manager knows that you build a team from the back. Martinez just dreams a good game. We are turning into a caricature of a football team, sloping from one disaster to the next.

Everybody realised that Moyes’s time was up and, for most part, we wished him well for stabilising us and making us competetive again. We needed somebody to take us forward. We actually got someone who blatantly has no idea how to set up teams and consistently win football games. We have gone backwards and are now heading for a second successive bottom half finish, breaking depressive loser records along the way. Moyes didn’t dip below 8 in the last 8 seasons he was there.

Get rid as soon as and get somebody in who actually knows what they are doing. If we act now then maybe, just maybe the new man can stop all the decent talent jumping ship in the summer.

And shame on ANY fan who has the temerity to call Evertons fans "One of the worsts crowds to play in front of." You have no idea what you’re on about.

But when the manager persists with having Cleverley on the left who can't cross with his left foot, you know straight away the purpose of having Cleverley there is to keep passing the ball sideways and backwards across the Arsenal defenders.

Whether we want to keep such low expectation for next season really does rest at the doorstep of the boardroom.

No matter how much we have to spend, giving money to Martinez would be a dangerous mistake to make.

He's already proved that he can't get a winning team with cash to splash.

Martinez having a pop at ’his’ team is hopefully hammering the final nail in his own coffin. It’s up to the fans to now let Moshiri know what we think of Martinez. Boardrooms take notice of unrest.

I think all Evertonians wish Roberto all the best and that he wins the next 9 league games and the FA Cup. But let's get real. There is every chance we may get done in the semi-final by either West Ham Utd or Man Utd and we WILL lose more league games, especially at home. Everton Football Club were bigger than Martinez before we had a billionaire come in.

We know he is not; he has the rest of the season to prove to Mr Moshiri and his board representative that he is not.

Take a good look in the mirror Bobby.

Sounds like this is his last throw of the dice to keep his job. Lose in the semis and he is almost out of the door. I hope we go on and win the final. Then show him the door with a big kick up the arse. The guy is useless, much like half of the squad we have.

He kind of showed some honesty in talking about the performance after the game. Since then he has come out with this nonsense – this is the type of interview that will push the players away from him more than many were.

It is quite clear that he has split the fans (probably 70-30 in favour of him being sacked).

He has tried to distance himself from that performance – and no manager should do that. He is accountable whether he likes it or not.

What he needs to realise is that the fans are not "jockeys" – the team is not a "horse". It is not for us to create the tempo of a game – it is a cause and effect situation. A mid day kick off is usually a dull affair under Martinez and it's not easy for the fans, many getting up and out straight after their cornflakes. The players should be instructed to get at a team – throw in some nice tackles and set about a high tempo pressing game, that’s when the fans get up for it.

Whether he likes it or not, he has created a team that is very slow in tempo and that is problematic in getting an atmosphere that energises the crowd.

Last week we seen Lukaku point at 12th place like he has no involvement in that, this week we see Martinez blame everyone bar himself. I want to see collective responsibility. I don’t think we will get that under Martinez, he believes his methods are right and when they are wrong it is down to someone or something else – luck, the ref, the crowd etc etc.

Moshiri has the ideal opportunity to make a name for himself and to set an expectation of what EVERTON means... get rid of Martinez and his backroom staff, sell players who clearly don’t identify what Everton is.

I would like to see a marquee manager take the reins – bring in someone like Alan Stubbs as a number 2. Someone who knows Everton.

Speaking personally I have never felt as though RM has been a 'part' of Everton, even when he was getting a reasonably good return in the first 3/4 of his debut season, and he feels even more and more like an outsider now. I struggle to connect RM and Everton.

For sure, any player who is not prepared to give their best for the shirt week in, week out should be shown the door, and of course some players will be lured away by European riches and so on but it must not be RM who is tasked with the immediate playing future of our club.

If so, I can see the physical heart being ripped out of this team (psychologically it already has) and with no Rom, Stones, Baines, also maybe no Coleman or Barkley, Jags getting older, likewise Barry, a desperately average GK and Ged going back to Spain it is going to take some real work to get it all back together. And no way must that be tasked to RM.

He has to be replaced before he can inflict any more damage. The historical and contemporary stats about home wins - or lack of - is just mind boggling with this squad.

I despair at the state of the club, the positivity of new shareholding is totally outweighed by the playing management side.

Those teams Spurs, West Ham and Leicester are playing sound defensively so what’s wrong at Everton? Martinez, plain and simple!

I think many of our established players gave up on RMs methods working a long time ago. Distin obviously spoke out and paid the price, to a lesser extent the same thing happened with Baines. After the Stoke defeat at home Baines said we need to manage our game better, a day later RM said don't blame the players for their game management.

I think its only been the 2 cup runs that have so far stopped the fans at the match turning on RM.

But I don't think fans are prepared to put up with this dross much longer, cup final or not.

It's about time Martinez started to concern himself with whether he can get the fans in a good moment instead rather than on whether the players are playing with joy and freedom and whatever else his flawed philosophy thinks is needed to get a team to win.

He should understand some basic principles which so many teams have demonstrated over the years:-

Win games consistently and the whole team will be playing happy smiling football.

Give team talks that urge a team to win and battle to do so.

Tell them to move forward rather then focus on maintaining possession.

If they lose the ball fight to win it back immediately as they did against Chelsea.

Get them as fit as possible so they can strive to win for 90 minutes plus it will also help them maintain the concentration for the whole game.

Resign at the earliest opportunity.

How can the team that played well against Chelsea be so dismal next match against Arsenal.

As much as I blame Martinez the players also deserve a bollocking for that on Saturday. No one apart from lennon put a shift in. There was a disgusting lack of effort from the players.

I think discipline could be a factor. We all knew at school who we could piss about with and who we had to knuckle down and do work for. The players aren't scared of him at all.

Is this typical of some fans? I believe that winning the cup is not worth keeping Martinez.

"Brill Young manager, needs time, needs to build his own team etc". He says I’m over-reacting.

SO yes there are people out there who would keep Martinez on present form. I think we can do better – if a team 2nd from bottom of the Premier League can attract Rafa Benitez, then we can do better than Roberto Martinez.

It’s the first time he’s really publically blamed the players, and I remember Mourinho doing the same, although Martinez isn’t singling anybody out yet but I feel that may come. Undoubtedly a desperation act, maybe the final act, once you start saying the players are crap there’s no way back, blame the fans and you truly are a gonner.

The FA Cup game was different because the players genuinely want to win it, not for Martinez, maybe partially for the fans, but definitely for themselves, some big names are leaving in the summer and they want an FA Cup winners medal to take with them.

Martin O'Neill is another charlatan manager who, because he played under Brian Clough, felt he could become an imitation and be a success.

Martinez thinks he can recreate Barcelona by watching them and copying what he sees – a bit like someone learning how to play Wonderwall and thinking they can play the guitar.

3rd Highest scorers at home? Where does that get us when we have conceded the most at home out of every single club in the league (28)

4th fewest goals conceded away? So fucking what!

We are in 12th place on thirty fucking eight points with 9 games to go. Thank fuck only 3 are at home.

As someone who has NEVER called for Roberto’s head (so I don’t belong in your glib ’Martinez Out Brigade') but as an Everton fan who continues to be bewildered by the discrepancy between the quality of the squad, the form and results they produce and the utterances of the manager, I could throw back at you some very disturbing stats to counter your very weak defence of Roberto.

Instead, let’s play a game of ’what if...’

You flag up our away form as a positive. And I agree. It is. Not ’great’ because we have drawn rather than won too many games, but a single defeat away from home all season is not to be sniffed at.

Now to the ’what if...’ game.

’What if ...’ our home form mirrored exactly our away form? That would translate into the following:

P 26 W 10 D 14 L 2 F 44 A 26 Pts 44 GD +18

Let’s make a ’guestimate’ on those numbers to bring it up to parity with the 29 games we have played to date. I’ll be generous and add 2 wins and a draw in those 3 games, scoring 5 and conceding 3. Fair enough? That translates into:

P29 W 12 D 15 L 2 F 49 A 29 Pts 50 GD +20

Pretty decent (but way off table topping form) and on the current standings it would elevate us to 5th, equal on points with West Ham Utd and Man Utd but with a better goal difference.

Now let’s do the reverse and project our home form on our away form. Our overall record would read:

P 32 W 8 D 8 L 16 F 58 A 56 Pts 32 GD +2

Taking the mean in those numbers, we would win and draw 1 game in every 4 and lose the other two. Round it down to mirror our 29 games played to date and you could take away a win, draw and defeat to have our tally looking like this:

P 29 W 7 D 7 L 15 F 52 A 51 Pts 28 GD +1

On current standings, that puts us ONLY above Norwich (thanks to a vastly superior goal difference), Sunderland, Newcastle and Villa.

An extreme hypothetical game, I am first to admit.

But there is a serious point to it.

’What if...’ instead of our home form simply mirroring our away form, next season (should Roberto be retained) our away form starts duplicating our home form?

Can any one of us say, with absolute certainty, one scenario is more or less likely than the other with this Jekyll and Hyde side under this manager?

Or ... maybe we can. The recent back-to-back wins in the Premier League – home to Newcastle, away to Stoke – is the only time this season we have achieved the feat and the first time in nearly a year when, in April 2015, we beat Burnley then Manure in consecutive games.

That’s 33 games and counting. Everton no longer ’does’ winning football and long winning runs under Roberto Martinez.

Worried.

The game was embarrassing to watch, Arsenal outclassed us I thought in almost all departments. I keep reading that we have a top 6 side, not for me we don’t, lets face it we never really got going even in attack never mind in defence!

In my opinion we are badly lacking in midfield, all 3 midfielders were poor again, Besic disappointed me I expected better, ditto Cleverley, Ross I thought had a terrible game he was poor in all departments, the lad is not developing enough to my eyes.

I’ve been in Roberto’s corner all along, but its looking like the players have lost confidence in him, rightly or wrongly. The majority of the fans now want a change of manager, and its going to make it difficult for him to continue.

Whoever is manager there needs to be a substantial amount of money spent in the summer to make a realistic challenge for the top 6. We need some no nonsense defenders, two top quality creative midfielders plus a goalkeeper for starters.

Saturdays game I think will have convinced Lukaku and Stones to leave, and maybe one or two others too, I hope not but its very likely, so they will want replacing also. We need a complete shake up in the summer, a fresh start from top to bottom.

Kilbane sums up Martinez perfectly, ’one step forward, two steps back’. His reign in a single sentence.

How would you feel hearing this rubbish he is spouting if you were Lukaku or Jagielka? Jagielka had a fine game alongside the utterly hapless Funes Mori. Lukaku got zero service not for the first time. Tedious side to side crap even when 0-2 at home. Unacceptable. Pack your bags Roberto and close the door behind you.

He did a decent job at Villa, before it all turned sour, but I think he built his own team whilst he was at Aston Villa, though. Ask the Villa fans, when it started going wrong for them?

In what way does O’Neil come across like Clough, Peter? Just because he played for him. I think that maybe you are just putting 2 & 2 together, and coming up with 33.

I don’t think Clough, turned football into rocket science, and if, as you say, O’Neil, has tried to imitate him, then surely that would be the last thing he would try to do?

This manager has previous, his last team in the Premier League were eventually relegated. The time to sack him is now, not the end of the season. What is obvious to most fans is surely obvious to a very astute Mr Moshiri.

About time too, Viva Moshiri!!

Blaming Martinez for something that works in one instance and not the other would lead me to think it's something else. Maybe the players should take more responsibility for our home record... or maybe this team is just not as good as everyone thinks.

Our fixtures between now and the Cup Semi read:

Man Utd Away – won their last 3 at home (Stoke, Arsenal, Watford) and picking up steam looking for Top 4.

Watford Away – they have recently lost at home to Stoke and Leicester but drew against Chelsea and Bournemouth before that; up for a fight and probably want to prove a point in case we get them in the FA Cup Final.

Southampton Home – 5th in the away form league and, after Sunday's result, are clearly happy to fight until the end.

Liverpool at Anfield – say no more.

So... morale must be on the floor, especially now the manager has publicly pulled the rug out from under the players' feet. Every action has a reaction and some, I’m sure, will want to say exactly the same thing to Martinez as he’s said about them now he’s pointed the finger. This is, after all, whats happening with the home support after he blamed them for results.

If we pull our socks up, get some good performances and results (especially winning the derby) and get to the FA Cup Final, Roberto will continue to get served at the last chance saloon – until the Final, that is.

If we continue in the recent vein, heads drop, results spiral and we get spanked in the derby before exiting the Cup, I don’t think he’ll even be on the coach home.

He’s essentially got 5 games to save his job – he might land somewhere between the two scenarios, my gut tells me we’ll have a new manager next season though, it's just a matter of when the barman wants to ring the bell to call time.

By September, things must be a lot better. Hmm, OK, this is EFC we’re talking about: by September things should be a lot better.

He spent Top 2 transfer money on Villa and handed long lucrative contracts out to players like Marlon Harewood, Reo Coker, Nicky Shorey – selling Gary Cahill in the process. 6th place was all he could muster – realised he had a busted flush and ran away from the problem he created when Lerner told him to sell to buy.

A supposed top manager, he pretty much condemned Villa to all these years of book balancing which has cost them Premier League status. He didn’t fare much better at Sunderland and that is that.

You cannot survive in the Premier League playing a style the other managers are finding easy to beat.

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11682/8568066/robert-Martinez-wigan-players-must-produce-goods-in-league-to-earn-wembley-start

RM seems a nice guy but if anyone is going to put serious money into Everton from now on, they are going to want results not weasel words.

Years ago I had a client who would always say that in the world of management, there are the bastards ... and there are the silly bastards. A bit harsh, but that phrase keeps popping into my head with increasing frequency.

1. Our away form is not compensating for our home form, unless you think lower mid table is where this squad belongs overall. Our home form is so poor that the top 5 away form we enjoy is over-ridden. If you don't believe me check the league table which shows you the combined results. It does not lie.

2. Your point on something being wrong. You think this squad is not as good as everyone thinks. I don’t know what other people think of this squad but I know one thing for sure: it is better than the 1993-94 squad and the 1997-98 squad. Both survived relegation by the skin of their teeth. Both had better home records. This squad is also better than the 2002-03 version, which was still largely made up of the mid table fodder assembled under Smith. That squad finished 7th.

If this squad is not as good as people think it is, then Martinez should be hung out to dry on his transfer record.

He has been given more money than any previous manager and our wage bill is 9th highest in the Premier League. Where we are is not good enough whichever way you try and spin this.

You say he's a bit like Moyes? But didn't Moyes do the opposite, to how you describe O'Neil? Except he never won nothing. Maybe I'm wrong though, because his legacy to United was a midfield of Fellaini and Mata!

Peter, you then go on to say Martinez, thinks he can recreate Barcelona, by watching and copying what he sees? How can you seriously jump to this conclusion, when It's obvious the two teams couldn't be more different? Barcelona, work like dogs, to retain or regain possession, whereas Everton, don't even look fit. That's some imitation that and probably the biggest reason that Martinez, is failing in his duties.

Barcelona, prove better than anyone how simple the game of football can be, whereas Martinez, just confuses us with his tactics, and makes Everton, so easy to play against, because his teams have no balance.

For the Spanish coach, the fact that a side he believes is capable of challenging at the top is instead struggling at the wrong end of the table shows there are problems which he must address.

And he warned that could see players discarded at the end of the campaign, if they do not show the spirit and fight required to get Everton out of the mess their poor form has dropped them into.

Asked if some players are fighting for their futures, he replied bluntly: ’Yes, of course. But that is no different to what naturally happens in a football team.

’When you don’t get good results, you need to find the formula to get good results. The game is a selection, an assessment, and when results are not there you need to find answers.’

Martinez was in charge of Wigan when they were relegated and said: ’At Wigan we had a period of nine straight defeats, so I’ve had it elsewhere. You need to change things around and get a tactical advantage, and try to get ways of winning games.

The learning curve is obviously very much steeper than most of us would have thought – how is this man still in charge at Goodison?

But when that time comes the manager must have a proven criteria of success. That would mean managing in a reputable league in whatever country and finishing consistently in, at the very least, the top 6. That criteria would have ruled out Martinez.

There are of course other criteria such as not adhering unwaveringly to a philosophy when he hasn’t got the players to pursue it.

And by the same token someone who has the ability to get the very best out of his players and organise the team to do the same!

What I don’t want to hear are the names of merry-go-round managers who come and go with regularity in the Premier League and more often arrive to save a team from relegation.

I would, however, take the fat Spanish waiter tomorrow the slim Spanish faker!

Also shows a nasty emotional streak which to be honest surprised me. I used to think that although he was so full of himself and had all the self-confidence in the world he was a fundamentally decent person. He may still be, but half-decent or not, now I know he's full of shit and the players and the senior management hierarchy know as well.

Nice one Bobby.

The simple fact is he doesn't drop players, he plays the same exact formation with the same players, unless one of them gets injured or suspended. The only reason our central midfield pairing is not McCarthy and Barry is if one of them is injured or Barry gets suspended. Otherwise, regardless of competition and whether we are home or away, we will always start off with two players in defensive midfield roles who offer no goals and no creativity.

He only ever starts with one winger, it was Deulofeu for a while and he was creating goals for Lukaku. But our defense was shit, again despite playing with two defensive mids, so he blamed Gerard for that and brought Lennon in. But he persisted with Kone for months despite him offering absolutely nothing. He was only dropped when it became indefensible and we couldn't get a point.

There is no competition, McCarthy and Barry know they will be starting, as does Barkley and Lukaku. At least Lukaku has earned that, but Barkley can not say he deserves to start every single match. Plenty of great players are used as subs occasionally, but that doesn't happen here. Everton is as predictable when it comes to our starting 11 as we are when it comes to tactics. At the end of the day, the guy is just a very poor manager. It really is that simple.

I remember not so long ago when RS fans were screaming out for Rodgers to get the sack. They were entitled to their opinion, quite rightly as are we, but we as EFC fans have to be more vociferous to get Martinez out.

The gulf in class was very apparent and does not bode well for the future with some of these players in the team. Sacking the manager alone will not solve our ongoing problem of being good, but not good enough!

Martinez is a very young manager and still learning; he needs a mentor, maybe Peter Reid, a change in the backroom staff, or maybe a director of football in Joe Royle. Someone with some arse, who the players respect.

Also not once in his time with Everton has he once made an acknowledgement that he might, just might, have got it wrong.

His extended outrageous public support has undermined the departure of an excellent club servant.

His treatment of Distin, unreal . . . . .

His latest isolation of Pienaar, after spending months talking up his importance to the team is equally bizarre. . . . . .

As stated in my previous comment, Roberto strikes me as a prat.

As for MON – he ostracised the vast majority of his players.... had a huge squad and didn’t rotate them and had a massive wage bill

O’Neill came under further criticism from Curtis Davies, who rarely featured last season. "A lot of players have been frustrated by not having a fair crack of the whip and I’m one of them," said the defender. "There is no guarantee whoever comes in is going to play you or not play you. But if you feel you have got a chance, then you are happy. As long as someone who comes in is fair, I am sure people will be happy. I felt I didn’t have a chance."

How long before we see banners we Martinez Out! at Goodison? I cannot understand why he is still in a job?

If RM has good reason to leave him out then he should communicate that if he is even a half decent man manager – keep the lad in the loop as it were – and also on the contract thing.

Surely he’s worth a place on the bench unless he’s another individual who has said something our Fuhrer doesn’t like which has made him all pissy with Stevie.

Roberto is now being hoisted on his own petard to coin an old phrase and it is not nice to watch.

I think the players will win the cup. Simply because they want to. What football player does not. It might be that Roberto will last that long, but I doubt it.

I am intrigued to see how Mr Moshiri plays his cards. He will likely be cautious and patient to an extent, but I also think he will act to either keep the young stars together, or let them beneficial deal for the Club and improve the overall position. If swift action is required it will happen.

Roberto’s position has been untenable in the real commercial world for some time, where performance and reward based logic applies. His his latest comments will have not gone unnoticed by the board.

I say again; the man’s a prat, and possibly a not too nice one at that.

Martinez can always point to his FA Cup with Wigan – MON can point to his League Cup (so can Alex McLeish, ironically). Ultimately they are managers who are out of their depth at bigger clubs. All 3 have struggled in the Premier League because they only know one way.

Back to Martinez – bye bye, Roberto.

Has Roberto a four or five year contract? If it's five, time is still on his side; if only four, Bill will probably want to see an improvement by Christmas. Of course, if we get to the Cup Final...

I believe almost any club in the Premier League would have sacked him by now.

God help us and Everton FC if he stays that long. I ask everyone to pray that he goes.

Home and away, but what has that got to do with it? I missed only one of the last few seasons’ EL away games.

Don't start giving it the "I am a better Blue than you because....."

I said we "are the best fans in the Premier League. Did you miss that?

Because the way some of you go on, you'd think we were watching the dross of Smith or Kendall Mark III and going down.

Too late. Moshiri's in charge now, and you are screwed.

Out of depth, out of ideas. Shouldn't have bought players from Wigan for starters, and it was only the inheritance of a good squad in a largely poor league that gave you the 72 pts.

Joel Robles is too inexperienced to be a long term option, Kone is not worthy of the shirt and (I think) McCarthy is looking for a move. Get rid.

As for next season, Funes Mori and Besic need time on loan to a newly promoted Premier League club (with the obvious clause of no play against Everton).

I'd ideally have Hecking from Wolfsburg. But if it has to be an EPL manager, than I'd plum for Koeman (no 2nd season syndrome for him!), along with real footballers like Tadic, Ward-prowse and van Dijk.... please!

That’s well beyond the point someone should need a mentor. It’s certainly well beyond the point at which someone should be learning the most basic tricks of the trade.

In truth 41 wins from 105 Premier League games may satisfy you but it doesn’t really do a lot for me and given that 21 of those wins came during his first full season in charge and he has only managed to win 20 from his last 67 Premier League games isn’t really a sign of the club moving forwards – or perhaps I’m missing something?

"Just to be clear, are you all still talking about the Everton Manager with the best win record (over 44%) and points total since Howard Kendall in 1987?

Because the way some of you go on, you'd think we were watching the dross of Smith or Kendall Mark III and going down."

21 wins out of 67 PL games in the last 2 seasons = 31.34%

Season 2013-14, 21 wins in 38 PL games = 55.26%

Season 2014-15, 12 wins in 38 PL games = 31.58%

This season, 9 wins in 29 PL games = 31.03%

The (sacked) Walter Smith had a 32.4% win rate in his 3.5 seasons with us with an aged, under funded side.

David Moyes registered a 42.1% win rate in his 11 seasons with us, starting from a far more disadvantaged position than the one Roberto inherited.

So, the short answer to your question:

Yup! Roberto Martinez is the manager we are all 'still talking about.'

Is it any wonder ..?

What if Martinez acted like a man and did the honourable thing and say, "I’m doing a crap job. I am an awful manager. I’m destroying the club and the team, and have alienated practically every Everton supporter in the land. Therefore in the best interest of Everton FC, I will resign."

Am I right in thinking he would not get a penny off EFC if he handed in his notice? If that is the case, he still should resign – he’s probably got plenty of money tucked away.

Steve 129 LOL on 42% win rate. Let’s suppose averaging works the way you see it, then managers who won the title and getting his team nearly relegated should still be in their job. Isn’t that right, Mourinho?

Most managers hunting for UCL don’t survive half a season like that, let alone 2. rm should count his lucky stars and do the honorable thing of owning up to his problems already.

Looks to me as though someone's had a word with him or he's looking over his shoulder.

Surely the only chance he has of keeping his job is winning the cup? Either way the next few months will see how much control and how ruthless Mr Moshri is.

Moyes was bigged up too much for his own good by Kenwright and others. Martinez was bigged up too much by Pegleg and Kenwright. Both are now floundering.

For me, the next manager must have a proven track record. Let's make this gamble one with better odds.

Regardless of the FA Cup outcome, RM should be shown the door by the end of May.

That gives a new man (whoever it may be) the chance to steady the ship and start to build.

That won't be easy as I believe several of our players will be tempted elsewhere in the next few months. Those still here will have to 'unlearn' the crap that has been put into their heads by Mr Snake-Oil.

If we have an exodus of some of our 'star' players and we still have RM at the helm then, next season, we could well be the new Aston Villa / Leeds / Blackburn or either Sheffield club.

We'll be looking over our shoulders quite a lot unless a timely change is made.

The stats and the league table don't lie.

Let's paraphrase one of the statements you made: "Unless you can show you are a Manager to drive Everton forward, it will be difficult to see how you can stay at the club."

You buy them, you coach them, you pick them – you carry the can for them!

Now let’s rewind...way back, I remember the Moyes era, it was equally as frustrating, Everton were the "almost" boys for years, then we cracked it...and then Villarreal came along and made it brutally clear how European Championship absence had truly affected Everton in terms of progression over a decade of "hard grit"!

Enter Martinez, in the wake of a "Judas Moyes to Man Utd" disparagement. Moyes had taken Everton as far as he could (given the limitations both financially and on pitch) hit that glass ceiling and could NOT go further. Moyes left because of a "recommendation" from Ferguson...and that broke my heart, an apparent "honest/decent Scottish bloke" who then had the nerve to make underwhelming bids for Baines and make some very disconcerting comments.

So you can imagine my surprise when Everton appointed Martinez, we started playing attractive, balanced football, made some brilliant signings and evolved the team spirit and attitude. I was watching the same team, but it wasn’t the "same" team, I could hold an argument with my mates for once because NOW I could and I was proud. Damn right in "Martinez we trust", this bloke had changed the scope of moving forward, same team, same resources as Moyes. So, where does that delegation leave us knowing that?

Martinez is not without his issues I agree; his erratic sub’s selection, his first team and rotation usage, the exceedingly poor use of football metaphors, the list goes on (previous comments included). Alas, this is man has his flaws and we are entitled to voice our "constructive criticism". Its a freedom I’m using.

Let’s get real, there is "deadwood" in our team; Osman, Pienaar, etc. They’ve done their bit, I thank them, but at 35, if I can’t pick them in Football Manager... I’ve made my point. Martinez made a passing comment, whether it be aimed at them or in general, who knows?

One things for sure, I’m looking forward to the transfer window.

WE HAVE FUNDS! Which is good, great even! Martinez made a habit of watching potential signings, some hit (Lukaku, Deulofeu), some miss (McGeady, Niasse? I really wanted McGeady to work out) and were the pressure was on to meet demand he came through. Everton were muddling through some muddling times. My point being, at his disposal, we at least NOW have the opportunity to finally get it right, last piece of the jigsaw if you will. The money, the dinero, it speaks volumes in this world and now Everton have a voice.

Give him one more season, or let him run down his contract, either he gets it right, or he gets it wrong.

Yeah I read the scoreline (bah Arsenal!) and declined the opportunity to watch MotD, but Everton as an institution has been around longer than the 29 years I’ve been around and I’m sure they’ll be kicking a ball long after I’m gone.

All I’m saying is our season as per standing is done. We can look forward to FA Cup victory if the players want it enough which gives Everton incentive for European Qualification. But next season is where it’s at for me.

COYBs

It was no surprise to lose to Arsenal, it was the manner of the defeat that was disheartening, we looked out classed.

Martinez does need to change the emphasis, less on going forward and use a more cautious balanced game, although this has been said for quite a while now. If we had better quality midfielders + a top forward to support Lukaku we wouldn’t need to commit everyone forward like we do at the present to score the same number of goals.

That should lead to an improvement in our goals against tally. Of course an improvement in the general quality of the squad would not come amiss either, personally I think that we are over rating our players at present.

Martinez has lost the fans support now and I cant see anything happening that will really change that. It will be better for all concerned if Roberto was to leave at the end of the season, its a pity because he does have many attributes along with the faults.

There is much talk on here about Martinez's tactics, lack of Plan B, etc. For me,:the big issue is his inability to get his message across to the players. They often look confused, uncoordinated and we consistently see him on the touchline, shouting "quicker, quicker!" What do they do in the week.

I don't think these players are as good as we think, but they are a top six squad that I'd expect to finish higher this year.

At times this season, we've played some great effective attacking football. The table doesn't lie and after two season of this, with no genuine signs of improvement, I think he's at breaking point.

After three seasons and six windows it is his team – he bought them, trained them, motivated them, set the tactics, decided the substitutions – everything. He has no one to blame but himself.

I just hope he goes this summer, otherwise we will be even further down the table next season.

Er ...... be fair to Martinez?
What do you think Martinez does or is responsible for?

A football manager is supposed to pick the team; oversee the training; gives some kind of strategic / motivational team talk; make astute tactical changes and substitutions and is accountable for the results.

On that basis, any blame towards the players (erratic displays, below par performances, poor attitude) also rests on the manager's shoulders, regardless of who the manager is.

To be fair to Martinez, he is getting very well paid for underperforming.

"Everton fans (not just under Martinez) are one of the worst crowds to play in front of, I've said it many times we are the best fans in the country " (when ?).

"We can at times be the worst, You can see the fear in the players to try things, things that come automatically to them away from home"

What a load of bollocks.

Geordies have hounded out manager after manager with chants of "you don't know what you're doing" .Mackems are even worse abusing managers ( throwing beer over Reidy). The Mancs are screamin for LVG to "get the fuck out of their club".

City fans are booing their side off on a reguar basis. Villa fans are screaming the house down over just about everything what a depressing place to go. Baggies abused their last manager to a point where he couldn't take it .

I have only got half way down the country and I realise just how much of a free ride Martinez has had. When I think of some of the vile chants directed at their most successful manger ever by Arsenal fans I cringe. West ham fans got their last manager sacked.

Martinez has had the life of Riley. he has repeatedly took the piss with the nonsense he spouts and his team has served up shite yet he has enjoyed fantastic support.

For two seasons we have listened to apologetic bollocks offered up under the the guise of "positivity". People who told it as it was have been dismissed as "negative moaners"... or rather comically "Haters".

Now it's not just the people who post on TW, it's the whole crowds fault.

I wonder what happened when we were squandering all those leads. Perhaps the faithful were fantastic during most of the match which enabled us to take healthy leads, but then suddenly turned hostile in the latter stages turning the players into gibbering wrecks.

As for ’build the club’, it’s been built since 1878 – we don’t need to build a club – just need good custodians with vision, nous... and dare I ask for ambition?

Some guy has just decided to say Martinez Out forever and no more. In the end we are just arguing with ourselves. We probably all agree now we need a change.

What the Board think is up to them. Until they decide, the threads are useful psychologically ...and that’s about all. They will do nowt to change the views of the money men. Such is life!

The players are also getting well paid to perform, and on what we saw on Saturday they are also well over paid and have been on many other occasions.

I have said before, that its now best if Martinez leaves in the summer, but I think fans are looking at our players too much with their rose coloured glasses on.

What would you prefer supporters to be writing about? Would you prefer people to stop posting until such time as the Board have made a decision on the manager's position?

Yes of course sometimes there is an over-reaction to some situations but when the team have lost three home league fixtures on the trot and have only beaten Newcastle in a top flight match on home soil since they beat Aston Villa in November, then the supporters are entitled to express their thoughts.

I would think that the fans patience if it hasn't already been stretched too far is getting towards breaking point and the posts on TW reflect that situation, no matter how unpalatable you may find some of the responses.

The fact is, that if you have sat in the stands, paid a fair bit of dough out and watched and suffered the utter shite that Martinez is giving us, you would have to be insane to not be calling for a change.

I am prepared to shout from the highest mountain MARTINEZ OUT – HE IS A LOSER.

And I think the overall "lack of intensity" that Martinez has been bemoaning derives mainly from his tippy-tippy go-nowhere-except-sideways tactics, which bore the pants off the crowd to such an extent that it starts to bore the players as well.

If he wants players "to drive Everton forward", then how about providing some forward movement on the pitch???

Same right to express. If you think those who need to shout own this site... you are wrong. And always will be I hope.

If you are right... then me like other regular contributors who have left, will leave too.

What do you think? Our new owner has good links to Arsenal right?

Unfortunately, that has been the case for most of ToffeeWeb's existence – not the site's fault incidentally; I crave for the day when every other post is waxing lyrical about our performances and results and praising the manager and board for their prowess. We might have to wait a while for that to happen but we live in hope.

He pulled off Besic at half time because he was having a mare yet a couple of weeks ago he gave the same player a new FIVE YEAR deal.

We were 2-0 down yet his new £13,000,000 forward didn't get a look in. Instead he came up with the shrewd move of putting on another defender.

His side was unfit, unmotivated, and totally outplayed by a side who had themselves been totally outplayed only three days earlier. Which only showed how far behind we have actually fallen .

Now with only nine league games left he suddenly decides the players are playing for their futures. Maybe what he really means is that the players are playing for HIS future.

But getting back to the young nucleus of "our best squad in ages" it's visibly the case that they're mostly not physically fit enough for purpose. It's also visibly the case that several of them are apparently not even interested in trying to win the ball back. Young as they are though, they are "professional" players and have a duty to maximise their output to the team's advantage.

Two of our most cherished have tackle records described on stats sites as "very weak". Tackling is as basic a skill as passing. It should be seriously embarrassing to them to be labelled as such and they should have long since been doing something about it, as should any manager or coach. All professional players should be reliable passers of the ball more or less all of the time and all of them should be able (and willing!) to tackle to win it back or at least stymie the opposition's attack.

But if nobody cracks the whip they're visibly going to continue skiving, to the cost of the team and fans.

And to balance it up some of the older players in midfield have a duty to weigh in with meaningful shooting and making passes that create goals.

What I think we actually have is the best centre-forward we have seen in a generation at Goodison. Think of the squad when we had an excellent Tim Howard, a younger Baines and Pienaar on the left, Coleman and Mirallas on the right, Cahill, Arteta, Osman, Carsley, Tommy Gravesen taking the central roles, backed up by again a younger Jagielka and Distin.

Think about it... are we that much better now? – I don’t think so.

What was even more scary is that everyone, and I mean everyone around me was so quiet and accepting of what we were witnessing. We just seem to be in that "moment" when we just know we are going to lose at home regardless of the opposition.

Walking out the ground, it was as quiet as I’ve ever seen. The only comments I heard both during the walk and in the few pubs I went into on the way home was unequivocal comments that the imposter has to go. The manager and the whole team were a disgrace to the Club. Not one of them deserve to coach or play for our Club.

The players individually and collectively were shite. Tactics and motivation was zero and that is down to one man who should be run out of our Club at the earliest opportunity.

I watched the kids walking out and felt so sorry for them. Supporters standing waiting for their buses back to North Wales and a bunch of season ticket holders who come over every week from Dublin.

Some idiots blame the supporters for the lack of atmosphere and the now usual nonsense about Martinez being a "young manager" that needs more time. Well let them talk to those kids and the people that travel from all over the place every week to watch that cowardly shit and tell them it’s their fault we are as bad as we are.

On another note, an interesting thought put to me by an intelligent Red (yes, they do exist!), was that with matchday revenue now forming such a small proportion of a club’s income, is it actually an imperative to build a new ground? Now, I know that there are plenty of other sound reasons for constructing / re-developing a new stadium (prestige, safety etc) but does the financial argument still hold true when gate receipts are actually an ever smaller proportion of turnover? Of course, I want a brand new spanking Goodison but it got me thinking!

"For those of you who see Mr Moshiri as being the hard-nosed business man who will soon sort the Martinez situation out, I suspect that for a while he will focus more on team strengthening and the commercial aspects of the club and leave the managerial situation to Bill Kenwright."

You suspect? Based on what exactly. The fact is that he who pays the piper call the tune. I doubt very much that any sensible businessman would invest in a losing proposition. And that’s exactly what Martinez is. If he wants to protect his investment he’ll get rid of RM as soon as the final whistle of the last game of the season blows. Sooner if at all possible because he’s Moshiri’s biggest liability.

I expect Moshiri to act as soon as our FA Cup ends, win or lose.

Martinez, got relegated, but so did Alex McCliesh, ironically!

O’Neill, has never been relegated, took Wycombe through two leagues, done a decent job at Villa, and failed to make Sunderland any better. He took a team from a third-rate league, to a European final, and will be managing his adopted country, in a major championship this summer.

Not bad for a charlatan, who you say imitates Clough, despite only knowing how to play one way.

Why do you think Martin O’Neill, has such a massive ego Peter?

One thing that is hardly ever mentioned on TW is that during the Walker and Smith periods fans voted with their feet and attendances dropped off. Maybe if the ground was empty for the final three games, Mr Moshiri may get the message a little quicker, and RM could not blame the fans for the team losing.

Our last games Leicester, Sunderland, Norwich and possibly Palace. Very forgettable games where opponents are out for a fight (title or relegation) and we’re not. Don’t see how we can’t send a message.

We win the Cup, great. But experience tells me we won't. We'll comfortably beat whoever in the semis just to make some glaring errors against Watford or whatever. I really hope I eat those words but for me this feels like the players safe guarding their only chance of a trophy while the manager continues this dreadful trend in the league. But his ego will probably run riot in one of the ties so we end up playing Robles on the wing or something.

He's the only manager I know who would, when 2-0 up and down to 10 men, bring off a midfielder for a forward and when 2-0 down bring off a midfielder for a defender?!

He calls it under-performing, but no, they are performing to the standard expected of the man in charge. Mid table.

Great going forward, poor in defensive phases. We only have half a team.

Maybe the new man with the money is in touch with Señor Moyes... why didn’t he go to Newcastle?

I had high hopes on Saturday, especially as we had a new co-manager in the dug-out (again thumbs – up for the club’s community work); admittedly he looked about 5... but I thought it was the new defensive coach. I think he went back to his parents after 10 mins though – too difficult working with RM!

The board better be planning for a replacement already... cup win or not. Nil satis nisi optimum.....

I made the point that earlier that Martinez like MON is a charlatan. A man who tries to pass himself off as being bigger and better than what he is. Why does it bother you so much???

For the record, he didn’t do a good job at Villa. He blew (£120m in 4 years at Villa. Repeat that to yourself and remind yourself that in doing so he finished no better than 6th having spent for top 2 he bought Emile Heskey, Marlon Harewood, Nick Shorey, Zat Knight, Curtis Davies (£10m), Steve Sidwell (£6m), Luke Young £5m, Carlos Cuellar £8m, Warnock £6m.... absolutely shocking.

After villa he went to Sunderland – spent a fortune and was in the process of taking them down until he was sacked. The previous season till he joined they finished 10th, he took them to 13th then the season he was sacked a few games till end of season they finished 17th....

I really can’t be arsed debating the facts any more than that. I put him in a managerial grouping along with the likes of MacLeish, Strachan, Allardyce, Pardew. The ones who would make Everton fans cringe if linked with our club.

Back to Martinez.... Martinez Out.

Moyes didn't go to Newcastle because he probably told them NO. We all know he would have been the best man to keep them up but probably looked at them and thought his stock is falling fast after Spain so the last thing he needs is to have a relegation added to his CV. Benitez is just a gun for hire so he went there probably for the cash.

I was a big Moyes fan but the way he mugged us off at Man Utd and then struggled in Spain makes me think even with new investment he's not the man nor the manager I thought he was. However, I would take him over Martinez to end this awful home form. Moyes used to surrender in the press conference against the better teams. Martinez just surrenders against everyone on the pitch.

I just cannot see an Everton team managed by Moyes with Deulofeu in it and that would be a shame because he, apart from Lukaku, has been my favourite thing about the Martinez regime.

Roberto has only took one and three quarters of a season to click. About a month less than it took him to realise Howard was struggling in goal. Maybe he has started to pay attention.

Clown.

Appalling Home record this season, illogical substitutions, doesn’t seek help on defensive coaching, crass post match comments – it’s only going to get worse, Roberto, regardless of cup run. Please go.

Aston Villa will need a manager soon in the Championship. Nice guy, but it just hasn’t worked out.

I’m lost for words, other than I genuinely think Martinez is mad.

No matter... he’s sending me fecking mad!

I personally hated Mike Walker but, having done some research, it is quite unbelievable to attribute the 1993-94 season failure to him. For the record, that season:

• We had lost 7 home games out of 12 before he took over on the 7th January 1994.
• Out of the 9 games he was in charge, his record was won 4 drawn 3 lost 2.
• Of the 9 defeats, 4 were to Kendall, 3 to the caretaker manager (Gabriel) and only 2 to Mike Walker.

This is going to be a great transfer window. What could be more appealing to potential Everton additions than a mid-table team with a shoddy manager and fans that shit all over you when the team isn’t playing well.

Sorry, guys that’s just my opinion (boo the hell out of the performance at half time and at the end, maybe, but not constantly through the game).

The current crop of obscenely well paid players deserve no hiding place if they refuse to put a full shift in during every game... unless they’ve decided to join in with the vast majority of fans who want our imposter manager to get the boot asap. If they’ve done that, fantastic, I’ll come to terms with shite performances and results for a week or three in the expectation that Mr Moshiri will have the numpty sacked within that time.

Reading the Mirror article as mentioned above merely confirms my belief that the Incredible One is at best sadly deluded or, far more likely, a perennially incompetent shit manager.

However this Stevie Pienaar thing, if it is true, is the final straw for me as he would die for this club. I think (and I never wanted to) that he won’t play him with Baines because they did so well under Moyes and he cannot claim the success.

The real truth is that Mr Moshiri is no one's fool and he has come here for a reason, with a point to prove, so we can rest assured that there most definitely will be changes. I am not so sure that as said before, one of the "merry go managers" is the answer; I think I would prefer another up-and-coming one, so maybe Koeman or the like rather than Mourinho. The team we have is nowhere near the accolades they get. Bill Shankly once said the league table doesn’t lie and that is true.

I really am wondering who would want to buy some of these players! Hell even with the goals scored, there are games that Lukaku doesn’t look arsed. We are in with a chance for the cup but who will turn up for the semis? I have no idea...

Once again Mr Moshiri was there and has had the chance to recap so let’s all wait and see. I like his style after the theatrical entrance – for Bill’s sake, he is going about it slowly but surely... after all, even though the kitty has yet to be swelled, he has invested £85 mill. After seeing how Arsenal work, he will have some good plans or – despite Bill’s attempt at "I finally caught him" – be under no illusions this guy means business. And don’t be surprised if the Russian guy follows him quite soon

Onwards and definitely upwards, Blues.

"boo....constantly through the game"

I take it you do not attend matches?

More rubbish. This does not and has not happened, unless you have specific evidence of an individual somewhere in the ground (who no-one else in the ground including players will hear anyway). I've never heard anyone boo constantly throughout the game - he or she would be rounded on by the majority as you would know if you were there.

Another urban myth put about blaming fans for the shite served up by Martinez.

I witnessed many a dull, insipid performance under Moyes, which is why I wanted him gone. His record since leaving us doesn't inspire me to get him back.

Hopefully you and people such as yourself can go the game and explain to the kids and those supporters that not only travel the length and breadth of Britain and even further afield week after week at huge expense, why they should be content to watch that shit.

You try sitting there watching Everton players pass the ball to the opposition more often than the opposition pass to themselves. Sit there silently watching our players put zero effort in and humiliate the jersey they are so fortunate to wear.

Sorry, Alex, you and a few others like you who attempt to put any sort of blame on the supporters are in a world of your own. A bit like Martinez!

There is a serious chance we win the FA Cup but I don’t think it's worth keeping him on for another season of this rubbish.

"Proper" (ambitious) football clubs recognise the need for change and I can only hope if it were to happen, Moshiri has the balls/nouse to say, "Thanks, lad, but we’ve had enough."

O’Neill left Villa at least five seasons ago, and yet you still blame him for their impending relegation?

He’s a charlatan because he played for Clough, and tries to imitate him, with rocket science? Clough was the most simplistic manager of his time, and if O’Neill has tried to imitate him, he would also be a very simple man, surely?

You mention Pardew, I don’t think he’s a bad manager either, and maybe he could do well with the right job.

Martin O’Neill, has a record in football, that would stand up to any British manager, excluding Alex Ferguson, these last 20 years, and that’s why I would defend him.

Martinez, imitates, but doesn’t replicate? How can he imitate Peter, when he doesn’t even have Everton fit?

For the record, Peter, I defended Martin O’Neill, because I don’t think that he’s a charlatan in the same way, as you described Martinez.

Leicester fucking City top the league, West Ham are knocking on the door of the Champions League, and we sit 12th, 8 points below the mighty Stoke with the best squad we’ve had in 30-odd years.

Three years ago he was scoffed at for making a promise to get us in the top 4. Well, guess what... others have achieved the unthinkable and he’s taken us backwards at the worst possible moment in Premier League history.

Now what you may ask, does this have to do with Everton. The answer is simple. Along with players such as Jens Lehmann, Marcel Desailly, Patrick Viera and David Ginola, Everton manager Roberto Martinez also received his UEFA ’A’ coaching licence in record time through the Welsh FA.

If Foley is correct, it would appear that certain big names are able to take their coaching licence with the FAW and qualify in less than half the time it would take for a ’non-famous’ applicant to achieve their licence.

If true that the FAW are applying bias in order to fast-track certain ’names’ to their qualification, it would certainly add weight to the theory that Martinez isn’t exactly quite as well-proven and experienced a coach as he’d like us to believe.

I think the Premier League is far too dependent on Sky. Always a risk when so much of your revenue comes through one entity.

Diversification would be prudent – use the jam from the broadcasting contract to build a long-term safety net for the club.

Naturally, I am with those who think that a stadium is not the only answer. We need a good team, as well as a sound commercial plan, executed by people with know-how and experience. In other words, the full package. Arsenal and Man Utd have shown the way.

Where did I say that MON was a charlatan because he played for Clough? I mentioned that he was a charlatan as a separate point, just as I mentioned that he tried to make management rocket science as a separate point... just as I mentioned his supposed Clough imitations as a separate point. So stop trying to merge separate points and make them one sentence – each point stands up for itself and doesn’t depend on the others in order to not contradict.

Charlatan:- Di Canios famous word on that was: ’A charlatan is a manager who spends £40m to be a top 10 club and then sees the club sink into the relegation zone.’ – fair comment, it certainly takes one to know one. You could probably throw in the £160m that got Villa 6th place for that... you ask why Villa suffered so long after he left? simple... he tied players that were not good enough to long contracts that meant they needed to use the youth and patch where possibly – butterfly effect if you will.

Brian Clough Imitation:- In taking the Sunderland job he vowed to do the Sunderland job the "Brian Clough way".

Imitation vs Replication:- acting and talking like someone – doesn’t make you capable of what they did – you have to replicate what they did to do that.

Make sense? Hope so.

A new manager with pedigree would stand a better chance of lifting the cup and then convince the likes of Lukaku to stay a while longer and maybe fulfill the teams potential. We haven’t been this close to silverware for such a long time with as good a chance of going all the way as this.

I don’t see any improvement in Martinez for over 2 years now – in fact, all I am seeing is references to his Wigan tenure. Why give him the opportunity to fuck up our best chance of winning something for years till we sack him?

Martinez out now!!!

Personally I think that Martinez’s biggest flaw is not getting his teams to press the opposition enough – you only have to look at the Chelsea game recently to see they can do it, but they only do it once in a while.

His teams are wide open because they don’t do enough off the ball – simple really. Close them down, win the ball back, move it quickly.

Oh, and let me make all the subs. Sorted.

I’ve heard, on very rare occasions (maybe 2 or 3 times), booing in a typically lacklustre game when the team has, as only they can, resorted to working the ball from an attacking move back to the goalkeeper.

It can happen at half time and at the end of a game. It only happens when the players fail to show a do-or-die attitude. It’s not about simply losing, as much as that all too regular occurrence hurts, it’s about attitude and determination – or lack of it.

All I can say is anyone talking about fickle fans, the need to get behind the team and support the manager etc simply doesn’t go enough or at all to games.

There are not many, certainly among season ticket holders, who have watched so many dire performances and unbelievable capitulations the last 2 seasons who are still behind Martinez and can still claim to be of sound mind. I acknowledge there are still the few because one of them sits in front of me in Lower Bullens – incidentally, he also hates ToffeeWeb – and more recently – me!

If either of them does a sprint you see them spending the next 2 minutes getting breath back. I understand the need for physicality, but those two need better cardio fitness.

I look at Spurs with envy the way they work off the ball.

As a follower of Ireland and Celtic I’ve followed O’Neill for years. He has his faults. During his time at Celtic he played a very unattractive style typified by big strong, strong, non-playing centre-halves and a big man up front (Sutton, Hartson) in support of the inherited legend Henrik Larsson. He rarely gave youth a chance.

I feel that he’s a very old-school manager with his best years behind him and he also seems to have an intolerance of his methods being questioned of late.

However, to call him a charlatan has absolutely no weight whatsoever. Anyway, I think everyone has heard enough of about MON.

Mmm, I think they're similar in that they're good man-motivators but are unproven at a higher level. I think I'd stand by my assertion although it wasn't meant to be as negative as it probably came across.

I don't believe that TW, as you put it, is one homegenous blob of opinion that blows this way and that. In truth, we have a broad range of opinions posted by a wide diversity of Blues about what's going on, and that's what we've always encouraged.

What we've resisted, however, is people telling other fans how they should or shouldn't be responding (admittedly within our limits of reason). There's something disingenuous in that, I think. We all have our opinions; respecting that – rather than trying to force conformity to one's personal viewpoint... Is that a lot to ask?

The majority of posts will be negative at the moment as a consequence of how the team has been performing the last 18 months, not because ToffeeWebers want to be ’OTT’.

If anyone says that’s counter productive and will put the team off then I say codswallop – the team have been rubbish without booing. The worst goals against at home in the Premier League – worse than Villa, for god's sake.

Wear an ’I love Roberto’ hat at the next game and I’ll look out for you and give you a wave!

The crap performance against Arsenal and Goodison reaction may be a game we look back on. The contrast between what is possible (the Cup) and the reaction when things go crap must have been so stark for the new owner.

Where does one acquire such an item?

Not that I would ever pur-chase one you understand?

Maybe similar, but I think O’Neil, has done a lot more in the game, and I don’t think his teams bottle it in big games, unlike a David Moyes team.

Sorry I went on, but I honestly don’t think that Martin O’Neill has ever tried to be anything but himself. I hate it when people say that Martinez tries to imitate Barcelona, the best team in Europe. The only thing they have in common is they are both from Spain.

Mr Martinez comes across as a youth development coach, because he says it’s not always all about results.

Can we expect his phenomenal punditry during the Euros?

Only Bill K. Has one and he won't part with it!

Actually I would see you in it anyway because my seat look directly along the crossbar of the Gwaldys Street goal.

So don't bother asking Bill for it!

You may have a point about bottling it but I just think Moyes had little bit more about him than O'Neill.

Of course I don't know much about either so it's close to guess-work.

I'll be there in France shouting Martin and the boys on in a couple of months either way.

Martin O’Neill is not one I’d want now. Maybe at his best he would have been acceptable but I do think he past his sell by date in terms of Premier League management.

The fat Spanish Waiter would probably be our best option in terms of current Premier League managers unless he miraculously saves Newcastle from the drop.

Any talk now of who we might want is probably at this time a waste of breath because it’s always about who’s out there once Martinez eventually steps in the taxi! I’d prefer to go abroad for someone rather than one of the rotary club people.

Personally I believe we’ve got to put up with him for one more season. It won’t be more than that because I know he is incapable of permanent change and that the team will finish in more or less the same position that his teams (once he has maximised his influence over them) have finished – which is in the bottom half of the table.

Can’t agree that Moyes, had a bit more about him either, but you’re in good company, with Alex Ferguson. I always think about two games under Moyes. Fiorentina, away, and Liverpool, at Wembley.

Shit himself at Wembley, and his lack of a tactical brain, fucked it up in Italy. That was a very good team, that Moyes had created, and I really thought we had a chance of winning the competition that year.

I’m sure a limited Glasgow Rangers, then knocked out the Italians, before being outclassed in the final, in Manchester, off Zenith.

I think Peter’s right about one thing though: one thing O’Neill will have learned off Clough is not to be scared of any team!

Also, a lone boo is one of the saddest noises in the world, though this is a fact that the lone booer (who thinks his lone booing is a sign of single-minded independence) will never understand. Collective booing, however, is an entirely different ball game and, if sustained for 90 minutes, could be somewhat alarming.

Unless the playing side of the club is sorted quickly and Martinez is given his marching orders, that’s honestly the only place I see him taking us to if given another season in which to destroy our once great club.

Do we really want to be the team with the best, newest ground in the Championship? When your manager says publically that results don’t matter, that in itself should be enough to dispense with his services. The Premier League is a results driven business and if he can’t see that he has no business being the manager of any team in the league. He sounds like one of the modern breed of PE teachers at schools who won’t allow kids to play competitive games in case they get disheartened if they lose.

Unless he goes, and soon we have nothing to look forward to but more of the same dross we’ve seen for pretty much two whole seasons now. Don’t we deserve better than this?

I'm not saying you have to be content with the utter crap that was put on display the other night, obviously boo if you want that's your call, and you're welcome to exercise your frustrations however you want.

All I'm saying is that to me personally it was disturbing how loud and frequent it was, and I believe that kind of stuff weighs on a players mind, in a way that it could impact current performance. We just got worse and worse.

But away from Goodison we are far and away better. Why is it that there is such a discrepancy between our home and away games? I haven't seen anything like this with any of the other clubs, even the ones battling relegation.

Maybe I'm wrong, it's just how I feel about it.

He has lost the fans, has he lost the players? Only they know. I think he will relegate us if he is allowed to stay, I really do.

I actually backed Zenit to win that trophy at the last 32 stage at 33/1.

Since the Arsenal game you have repeated a criticism of the home support over a number of threads, calling the ’constant booing’ ’moronic,’ ’disturbing’ and ’counter-productive.’

Firstly, there is NEVER constant booing in any Everton game.

Secondly, the home performances have been so dire this season is it any wonder there is anxiety and angst amongst our (sell-out) home crowd?

Our last 9 home PL games reads:
P 9 W 1 D 2 L 6 F 13 A 17 Pts 5 (from a possible 27).

We have lost our last 3 home PL games in that run.

Thirdly, I am really not sure what you are trying to imply by your constant deriding of the home support. Deflecting blame from the manager and the players to the supporters ..? Making them some how responsible for the team’s failures ..?

It’s not a credible position, if so. In 2 of the last 3 home games – against WHU and Chelsea in the cup – GP was a snarling bear pit of partisan support.

In the WHU game, because the support was incensed by the perceived injustice of being reduced to 10 men, they solidly carried the team, cheering to the rafters every tackle, headed clearance, completed pass, throw in or corner won, every shot and goal.

It wasn’t the crowd that capitulated and lost the game in the final 12 minutes, coughing up 3 goals to hand der Hammers victory.

Similarly, against Chelsea, the support noted the high energy and pressing game Everton played from the off and got right behind them, from 1st whistle to last.

Conclusion: the home support DESPERATELY want success for the team. If they can see purpose and effort, or if they sense there is some sort of injustice, they will get right behind the team every time.

Perhaps before you continue slighting the home support further you should visit this thread and read post 20 by Maynard Hanna, describing the match day experience (and sacrifices...) many an Everton fan makes to attend the game.

It may just give you pause for thought

Analysis for Change

Liverpool sacked Rodgers and have now got one the best young managers in the modern era.

Chelsea have sacked Mourinho and are scouring Italy for a replacement, eg, Conte.

We need to do the same, look outside the UK (in the UK, the well is dry and the talent is unproven). Any young manager can have a good season, eg, Aidy Boothroyd.

We should be aiming high the only thing that concerns me is who is the footballing brain behind the scenes at the club? As I bet Kenwright would be pushed to name more that 10 foreign managers outside the Premier League. Martinez was a small time appointment based on the Romance of an FA Cup win. Further research into his Wigan career and Wigan's performances should have raised alarm bells.

The supporters have been amazingly patient with this team. This awful form hasn't just materialised, it has been with us for the best part of 2 years, so its no wonder the fans are getting fed up with these terrible performances from a squad thats supposedly the best we have had for 30 years.

When Martinez first came, the atmosphere was regularly good and hostile to the opposition as it had been for years. Slowly but surely; Martinezs style if play has completely switched off the fans, and seemingly the players too, to the point of sterile, staid football whereby anybody struggles to get excited about leading to dissatisfaction in the stands. If these people who criticise the fans actually go to the game then they would know this.

The away record actually isn't that great either. We have only won one more game than at home. Given that we are about to break records for the least number of wins at home in a season....ever, then that all of a sudden doesnt appear so good.

Truth is we are poor. We show little or no passion at home and also very little energy either. The GP crowd can forgive most things but lack of willingness to give your all and a lack of desire to bust a gut to go the extra mile for a win will only result in one outcome. The crowd are not happy. Its not the crowds fault that the players show such little desire. Its the players fault but most of all its the managers fault for sending the players continually out onto the field in that frame of mind and doing nothing to rectify it. It shows a complete lack of respect to the fans and sends out the message that the manager just doesn't get the ethos of Everton FC.

People who criticise the fans for our poor performances just insults everyone who pays out hard earned cash for season tickets to watch that rubbish week after week and for most part fill GP. Maybe you all ought to get out of your armchairs and join us down at GP and actually witness the fact that you are talking utter nonsense when you assert that we boo all game.

Summed up my feelings perfectly.

Look at our fixtures upto and after the Semi-Final... Honest Question: How many points do you think we will pick up?

Then I looked at this stat and crapped myself:

Most Premier League points in a season for a club to be relegated:

49 Crystal Palace (1992-93 – 42 matches)
42 – West Ham United (2002-03 – 38 matches)

In a season where we had the weapons to really shoot for the top 4, we have a manager with damp gunpowder and a cracked gun sight...

That was a clever bet, Shane, and massively overpriced, even if it took Everton, to win their last group match in Holland, for Zenith to actually qualify.

The reason I am saying that, Shane, is because I have heard two whispers now, off different people, who say that Moshiri is going all out for Mourinho. I've just got my mate to check for the best price, and he's told me it's 33/1.

Apparently we are to sit for 45 minutes watching this shit football and say and do nothing, possible politely clap or shout play up chaps every now and again. When the ref blows for half-time we can apparently boo as loud as we want.

Similarly, the second half and its end. Should the players hear any dissension during play, they will get upset and possibly not play too well.

At half- and full-time booing will not affect them or their performances in forthcoming games. Somehow I, like others, have not actually witnessed this continuous loud booing that has gone on throughout home games.

Me personally, well I have no issue whatsoever, with anyone venting their frustration at the dross we are witnessing week-in & week-out. Around me on Saturday I actually heard no booing whatsoever. I think we were just amazed and stunned at the new low that the team had just produced.

I'd still like to see Besic in the starting lineup next time despite how bad he looked coming back from that hammy.