The rest of the season...

by   |   11/01/2017  49 Comments  [Jump to last]

After last Saturday, I thought our season was dead. With hindsight, I believe it is very much alive.

Koeman now has space. We will not be relegated; he will not be sacked; he has time to work. It looks likely that we will have three new signings and, for me, that will do.

This is what I hope will happen:Two or three young players will gradually be given a chance with the possibility of one or two being ready for a regular start next season.

Our Director of Football will find another one to bring in under the radar in the transfer window. We will also sign a well scouted established player, perhaps like Schneiderlin, who will be an improvement on what we have.

The remaining games will be used to set in place a style that will be effective for the players we have. Most importantly, work will begin now to make a major signing. A player that other clubs want. A player who will show that this is a club with ambition.

Koeman must start next season with his own team and his own style. Then, he can be judged. The season is not dead – there are exciting and vital days ahead.

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Kieran Fitzgerald
1 Posted 12/01/2017 at 06:48:09
Spot on Andy. This window for me has had the feel of a summer window. The club has approached it in the same manner and seems to be getting decent players in.

It's particularly interesting for me when you look at the timing of things. With the window open, plus the added game time that Holgate and Davies have received recently, it does look like we are going to spend the rest of the season developing the first team squad and our style of play.

The manager will now have eighteen competitive league games, plus pre-season plus the summer transfer window to get things in order the way he would like.

I had written off this season by-and-large last August and was hoping more than wanting us to win things. I would have been happy to see what we seem to be getting at present.

John G Davies
2 Posted 12/01/2017 at 07:55:19
Great article. Bang on the money. The job starts here. As you say ,Andy, the season is far from over. We still have 54 points to play for.

Koeman has started to form the team as he wants it. Having had a look at the young players he now reckons they are ready to be integrated into the team.

In my opinion he took into account the way our fans were reacting to the displays and protected them.

Again in my opinion I think that was a wise move. I don't think any other Premier League manager has given the young players a go as much as Koeman. It is a fact that we are the only Premier League team to start with two teenagers in the line up this season.

Dennis Stevens
3 Posted 12/01/2017 at 08:13:41
A good piece Andy, but I do disagree somewhat with: "Most importantly, work will begin now to make a major signing. A player that other clubs want. A player who will show that this is a club with ambition."

Personally, I'm quite happy with rather unheralded signings who actually deliver on the pitch. That's where we show our ambition, imo, in the only place where it matters.

Tony Hill
4 Posted 12/01/2017 at 08:52:32
I think this season is dead, I'm afraid, save as a re-grouping exercise and to build for next year. That is not satisfactory in January but it is all we have. I am not excited by the prospect though I entirely agree that we can all take a breather and that Koeman has to perform and deliver for the rest of 2017.

I also have to say that if we embark now on a poor run of results then I am not quite so convinced that Ronald will be indulged, or that he will hang around. The first step is actually to get the mooted transfers over the line.

As ever, we live in hope.

Philip Yensen
5 Posted 12/01/2017 at 09:25:35
Koeman has and is starting to replace some of the dross we've had for a while.

I cant agree about relegation though, a 3 or 4 game run and everything changes. Look at the start we had and how quickly it panned. He knows he can't splash the cash yet because barring a fight for a European spot we have not much to offer incoming players.

Saying that, if Mr Koeman has a masterplan and he can convince top players to join us, perhaps not now but the end of the season. Only harsh criticism is that awful mac, he needs to wrap it up and send it to Roberto to put over his suit.

Patrick Murphy
6 Posted 12/01/2017 at 13:02:16
Obvioulsy we still have a slim chance of qualifying for Europe via whatever permutations of cup wins by other teams or indeed the slimmest chance of going on a run and catching one of the top six, but that is highly unlikely.

Therefore for the first time in over a decade, Everton do have some breathing space to blood new signings or youngsters and by the time next season kicks off, Ronald and his sqaud will be fully focussed and raring to go that's the theory, what will we see in practice?

Darren Hind
7 Posted 12/01/2017 at 19:44:09
The job starts here, Andy?

Thank fuck for that; I thought we had paid him £3m to make us pug ugly and squander two home draws by getting us knocked out of both cups.

Keith Dempsey
8 Posted 12/01/2017 at 22:44:31
Well if the season starts now, then let's hope we see some evidence on Sunday. I don't expect miracles but a different approach, and some intent in front of the Goodson faithful would surely get the fans onside. What a difference a week could make.
John Keating
9 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:02:13
The season finished after the Leicester game.

In my opinion what we should do for the remaining games is give a youngster a start and at least one on the bench every game. Lets see how our youngsters get on.

Until we actually give them a game, give them the opportunity, see how they react and something to aspire too, we will never really know. Plus it might save us a fortune!!!

James Marshall
10 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:15:24
It's funny how people suddenly say the season is over now we're out of the cups – but the rest of the time everyone is way more interested in the Premier League games than they are the cup games.

Everton is about rebuilding our reputation that's in tatters after 30 years in the doldrums, and winning a cup won't change that as Moshiri says. We need to change people's perception of Everton through our league position, challenging for top 4, then the league title, one step at a time – that's the aim for the club, not winning a cup.

Supporters might want a day in the sun, but the club needs more than that.

Koeman is doing the right thing and needs to be given time to affect his changes – he isn't going to do that in a few months, or even within a year. I wish fans would be more patient, and try to support the new manager for at least a year before laying into him every time we lose a game.

We don't need a quick-fix, and should avoid that mentality at all costs. Everton is about building a higher-standing in the game, and that takes time, money, support from all areas, and patience.

Dermot Byrne
11 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:22:31
We were never going to win anything this season and Europe was a pipe dream. This season is about change and putting together a team that can play the way the manager wants. It is frustrating but that is the reality.

I agree that youngsters need to be tried out and perhaps the link with the U23s needs improvement. We will, I expect, quite a few new players by the time next season starts and then the boss can start to be assessed.

For the rest of this season I expect ups and downs and a mid table finish. But my eyes are on next season and I think we may be a lot closer to top 6 then and the season after.

I think if your hopes are higher than that, you will be very disappointed and probably be shouting "Koeman Out" a lot. But a little patience and perspective, even if it does not come naturally, may make life easier.

Dermot Byrne
12 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:24:18
Great minds, James. Or...!
John Keating
13 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:27:35
James, we have to be realistic. We are out of both cups early doors. We will not be relegated and we will not break in to the top 6. We have absolutely nothing to play for.

There is money for Premier League placings but it won't be the be-all and end-all in our survival.If we can get one or two of our youngsters playing in the first team regularly this could save us a fortune and give the kids a goal to aim for.

Winning a Cup would, in my opinion, change perceptions of our Club. Not only would it be great for the supporters, especially the younger ones who have unfortunately never witnessed any form of success. It could be a springboard to greater success,... Remember 1984?

James Marshall
14 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:33:15
Indeed Dermot :)

Realism, exactly, John.

I remember 1984, and what it did for the club. We then missed the boat massively when the Premier League came into being.

At this point in time, I'd love us all to get behind what Moshiri is saying and doing by backing Koeman – he's the manager right now and I'd love us to show a bit more faith at this point in time, despite the disappointment in the cups.

Tom Bowers
15 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:40:48
It's a case of glass half-full or half-empty? Certainly not hovering around the bottom three is a plus for Koeman considering how poorly the Blues have played in most games this season.

Whilst considering him a failure after half a season was a little extreme, I am still of the notion that he may not be the answer. With some new signings, we hope the football improves and it does indeed leave us all with more optimism for next season.

Tony Hill
16 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:46:34
People will be patient if they see a team which tries in a cohesive way and a manager who shows astuteness. Neither has been consistently the case this season, nor for the last two. Indeed, they have happened only rarely. It is no wonder that going to Goodison has become a grind.

Evertonians will always react to spirit and imagination. They have been starved of both and it is not too much to seek prompt evidence of improvement, starting on Sunday.

Steavey Buckley
17 Posted 13/01/2017 at 12:54:39
It's really is about next season. Everton are currently in 7th place, and are 9 points behind Manchester United, who have most of the players Everton don't have. Most importantly, they may have the best goal-keeper in the world compared to what Everton have in the goal-keeping positions, who are not that good.

Up-front, Man Utd have at least 3 goal-scorers plus what they have in midfield including Fellaini. So 7th will be the best position for Everton this season, whoever Koeman decides to buy.

James Marshall
18 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:16:44
Tony – that's exactly the point, though. We need to be patient while the manager sorts things out. We're 7th. I don't think anyone should have expectations above that at this point in time.
Tony Hill
19 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:22:58
No, I agree with that, James.
Denis Richardson
20 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:30:47
I'm still hoping we can put a run together. Still a ton of points to play for and one or more of the top six will slip up. Question is will we be the ones to take advantage!

Looking forward to seeing Gana and Schneiderlin in midfield. Think those two will help Barkley and Davies a lot too.

Now if we could just get another striker...

John G Davies
21 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:38:41
We are currently the best of the rest. A position a lot have been brainwashed by Kenwright and Moyes into accepting as being as good as it gets. If we finish 7th Koeman has improved on the 11th finish of last season... fact.

He has inherited an unbalanced squad with aging players. The bare minimum amount of patience he should be given is end of January 2018.

Some seem to think we have a god-given right to be challenging top 4 this season, not with the squad left to him and not from an 11th position and not in 20 games.

Thomas Lennon
22 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:45:14
This time next year we could be – the worst of the best. And that would be a big step.
Martin Nicholls
23 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:54:21
A lot of talk about top six on here so presumably the related posters are looking at Europa League as well as Champions League qualification. We are currently 7th and whilst top six may be unrealistic we have every chance of staying in 7th.

My understanding is that the beaten FA Cup finalists no longer get a Europa League slot so should the League Cup be won by one of top six (extremely likely – Liverpool or Man Utd) and the FA Cup by one of that same group (historically very likely), then 7th will guarantee Europa League qualification.

We most certainly do therefore still have everything to play for... particularly as European football is likely to make us a more attractive proposition to "top" players .

James Marshall
24 Posted 13/01/2017 at 13:54:29
If we make the Europa League, and with some cash to spend on a decent squad, that could prove a good stepping stone for us – a bit more European exposure and a larger squad to cope with the demands.... Plus, if you win it, you get into the Champions League, and we're a great cup side! ;)
Andy Crooks
25 Posted 13/01/2017 at 21:00:38
Darren (# 7), I have not enjoyed our results or football any more than you but this is where we are. I think Koeman is the man for the job but it rarely black and white.

You have never called for his sacking but have serious reservations. I have some reservations – his treatment of Niasse, for example, was shabby in my view.

Plain speaking and utter crassness are often close. Ronald needs to get it right, he hasn't yet. I think he will.

Trevor Lynes
26 Posted 14/01/2017 at 19:55:29
Today's results were favourable and no matter what happens against Man City we will retain 7th place. I just hope that we can raise our game and confound the critics. A win would give us lots of confidence going into the winter fixtures, even a draw would improve our points difference over the following pack. Unfortunately the trouncing the top six teams are handing out to whoever they play is a bit deflating. None of them appear to be coming back to the field.

Let us hope that Koeman and Walsh can add a couple more quality additions to the squad before the January window closes and raise the spirits of the fans for the run in. I would love to see us bring in a real play maker, a crowd pleaser with top ball control, passing ability and ten goals before the close of the current campaign. Lukaku deserves better support.

Tony Waring
27 Posted 16/01/2017 at 17:43:45
Trevor, your second paragraph was presumably referring to the 7th-placed team handing out a trouncing to one of the top 6????

Yesterday was a sensational and fully deserved result and hopefully a "stepping stone" (pun intended) to better things.

The test will be when we face the "park the bus" merchants but seeing Tom Davies skipping around the Man City defenders gives me hope that better times lie ahead – especially when Koeman can make a few more signings to bolster the squad.

Don Alexander
28 Posted 16/01/2017 at 21:43:14
Looking at the negative evidence, as I sometimes do, it concerns me that we still have nearly all the players who capitulated right at the end of Martinez's first season. Champions League qualification was there for the taking but they imploded.

I wondered if some of them at the time were scared they'd be disposed of in the event of Champions League money coming into the club. If I'm right, and I do hope I'm not, I wonder what the mindset will be if the Europa League becomes feasible this season, with its better financial rewards and now Champions League qualification for the winners?

Laurie Hartley
29 Posted 16/01/2017 at 22:35:53
Andy – have you got a crystal ball?

Two or three young players brought in: Holgate & Davies – Tick
One under the radar: Lookman – Tick
Well scouted established player: Schneiderlin – Tick
Set in place a style of play that will be effective with the players we have: Saturday looked pretty effective to me – Tick

So come on – who is the major signing going to be?

ps: I hope things are looking up for you.

Up the Blues.

Dave Ganley
30 Posted 17/01/2017 at 11:09:56
Give it a rest, Darren.

The players deserve the lions share of criticism for getting knocked out of both cups. The Norwich game, whilst it was a weakened team, was surely good enough to beat Norwich reserves. They changed 10 players for that game, a fact that most Koeman critics fail to mention. We didn't turn up and got what we deserved. I'm quite sure Koeman didn't instruct them to fuck around and play as though we only have to turn up to win.

To blame Koeman for the team he put out is just masking the real issue that the players showed a couldn't give a fuck attitude that night. Don't give me a load of bollocks either about its Koeman's job to get the mind right. If professional players who are paid obscene amounts of money can't go onto a field with the right attitude then they shouldn't be at the club. Many of us have been saying that for the last 3 years. The players have short changed us.

The Leicester game, well we had that under control for 70 minutes near as damn it and quite inexplicably just stopped playing. Koeman had got the game plan right for that game, the players fucked up again. But it suits you to blame Koeman... so be it.

If he doesn't deliver in the next 18 months then quite rightly slag him off, but nearly every post you send at the moment is anti Koeman. You may not have wanted him but give him a chance to get the team playing as he wants and then judge him. He is Everton FC manager, stop prejudging him and see what he can do.

He has improved some of the players, slowly but surely. Coleman and Baines are starting to look proper players again. The defence has stopped leaking goals like a sieve. Gana is a revelation. Davies has come in and looked awesome. Lukaku looks like he wants to play again. Barkley looks like he is finally learning to be a player. It goes on....

The season is not dead and buried. The team is evolving. Those that can't will go and others brought in to replace them. It's not an overnight job like you appear to think it is. We are in 7th place. A marked improvement in itself from the previous regime. If we can start to find some consistency, then we can catch the Mancs and climb the table.

Koeman had a awful job to turn this club around given the state of it when he arrived. Stop continually moaning about it and give him a chance.

Darren Hind
31 Posted 17/01/2017 at 19:15:59
Dave Ganley,

I had "given it a rest" its five days since I posted on this thread... but seeing as you decided to address your embarrassingly feeble excuses for the woefully inept performances by Koeman directly to me, I will respond.

I was wondering Peter, these players who you blame for the Norwich defeat, which ones are they? Are you blaming the players who had made such an impressive and unbeaten start to the season, but where denied the chance to take us through to the next round because Koeman made wholesale changes and left them out... or are you blaming the players who had not played and where thrown in?

This was not a smash and Grab. Lowly Norwich played us off the fucking park. At what stage did you get the impression, Koeman would take the gormless look off his face and retrieve a situation his foolish selections and tactics had created?

There are people on the dark side of the moon who could have told you Leicester are a team who like to counter attack at pace? What does the blameless one do? He takes off our quickest defender and leaves the slowest two on our books to cope with these counter attacks. I could have told you at half time that Leicester would score at least two. Again this wasn't a fluke – Leicester had several chances to put the game to bed long before the final whistle... Koeman had made his change and sat there with the same gormless look on his face he had against Norwich.

Now you can heap all the blame on the players, but no amount of blame will make them any faster.

This club could be on the verge of something Great. The finances are looking healthy, we have new investment and we are dreaming of building on the Mersey.

My problem is this; Koeman has acted slowly when introducing players who were clearly ready. He has sat motionless as ageing out-of-form players have bored the arse off us with mindless hoofball. He has constantly bleated about what he has inherited (which was made to look ridiculous on Sunday) and he has steadfastly refused to take any blame when his tactics have been ruthlessly exposed by sharper coaches.

Off the park, we are in the best position we have been in for decades. I don't want this opportunity squandered by a guy who seems to see things about three weeks after the rest of us.

Have your say, but please don't tell me to give it a rest. We must be the only team in the country who have fans who want to completely exonerate a manager who has overseen two disastrous cup defeats despite having the good fortune to be drawn at home for both of them.

Don Alexander
32 Posted 17/01/2017 at 21:10:12
Darren, I do feel you're overdoing the anti-Koeman rant.

We fans just don't know what part Kenwright had in his appointment, if any. We do know that Kenwright's still regrettably involved, "specialising" in his own mind only in transfers. To someone like Koeman, I suggest (and no, I have no proof at all) that having that buffoon still here influencing transfer strategy is anathema.

Looking at it coldly, Koeman was in a win-win situation against Norwich. I'm sure he expected to win with the team he sent out, even bulging as it was with unimpressive so-called professionals, but following their capitulation against Norwich's virtual second eleven, it must have further educated Moshiri to the fact that the summer window was unsatisfactory to say the least. That will have mattered for Koeman.

No manager can be held responsible for underlings effectively downing tools, safe as they know they are from accountability because of inadequate alternatives being available to the manager.

That's what way too many of the current squad did for months after Norwich. They downed tools, to the cost of results, club income and fan satisfaction. The fact that there's already two new signings in this window increases the accountability they will now be starting to feel. They now know they need to perform or be dropped.

Our performances, results and wealth as a club will increase if we sign a couple more this month. All of a sudden, it'll be dawning on the shitheads in our squad that their comfy contracts might well be degenerating into a whole downward level.

I know there's a lot of speculation in this but you are quite right in pointing out the welcome improvement shown on Sunday by a team including only one player signed by Koeman. I suggest that some of them decided to get their finger out for once, that's all. I also want them to do the same thing to Palace and at least look like they're making a big, big effort in EVERY game.

That'd be worthy of the term "professional footballer".

Darren Hind
33 Posted 18/01/2017 at 05:55:54
Sorry Don, but I just can't make head nor tail of what you are saying.

You say the players "downed tools" because they had no real challenge to their positions, but a lot of the players against Norwich were fringe players. They ARE the challenge to so-called "safe" positions.

I didn't see anybody down tools against Norwich. What I saw was an Everton team being proper schooled by a team of inferior players because they were directionless... completely and utterly directionless. While the inferior Norwich players had a game plan and clear instruction of their duties, our players looked as if they had no idea of the role the manager had assigned to them. We where quite literally all over the shop.

You couldn't be more wrong when you say the manager can't be held responsible for his underlings not performing. It has happened since time began and it will happen until time ends. Not just in football but in every walk of life. The beginning and the end of a manager's job is to get the best out of his team.

This excuse that is creeping in (and it is an excuse) that players have "downed tools" is the most feeble excuses for an underperforming manager. It exonerates him of any possible accountability. I'm not buying it. I've had a bellyful of it over the past few years.

If you AND Dave Ganley are telling me I am going OTT with the criticism of Koeman, then I will have to accept that it must be the way I am coming across. BUT... I would ask you to read what it is I'm responding to.

We have lost two very winnable games which would have gone a long way to keeping our season alive and exciting. Koeman must have played something like 20 players in those games... Yet you and Dave seem to think they are all to blame. Read your posts again. We pay the guy £6m a year and you guys have completely exonerated him of all accountability... He must be the highest paid victim in the world!

"The season starts here" ... You couldn't make it up!

I wonder when the club will be sending out the £300 rebates to those who foolishly bought season tickets expecting it to start in 5 months ago???

Dave Ganley
34 Posted 18/01/2017 at 09:38:18
Darren, no we are not the only team who exonerates their manager at such an early stage of their tenure. Guardiola is struggling given their resources after a good start. Klopp struggled at RS before his ideas kicked in, Mourhino didn't enjoy the best of starts at Man Utd, playing dull football and parking the bus on occasions but now doing well. Do these managers get the treatment some of us are giving Koeman? Well no not that I have seen.

My "embarrassingly feeble excuses" are pretty valid really. Koeman has to see what he has available. In fact Koeman has probably given some players more opportunities than they deserve. Sure it's been slow progress after a decent start but we see this all the time, when the effect of a new manager has dwindled, players revert to type and is only now that we are beginning to see how he wants to play.

The players were bone idle, Koeman had every right to belittle them. We all said for the last 2 seasons that they weren't fit. Koeman wasn't saying anything we hadn't already said, or are you about to rewrite history? It's only in the last month or so that we look like we can finish a game and compete to the last minute.

I'm not sure you actually watched the same cup games as the rest of us. Yes, Koeman made changes against Norwich but any team we put out should have beat them. We were full capable of beating Norwich reserves and we didn't. Blaming Koeman and exonerating the players is your pretty feeble excuse. Your petty abuse of Koeman sitting there with "a gormless look on his face" just shows how thin your so called arguement is.

The whole team capitulated against Leicester. You can't legislate for that, well most can't but you with your crystal ball can, maybe you should share this information with Koeman before kick off so he can factor this in and make adjustments accordingly. In fact, share it with the rest of us so we can see if we should bother making the trek to the game our not!!

Did you ever think there was a point to him "bleating about the players he inherited"? Maybe that was a kick up the arse they needed. Nothing Koeman has said about the players collectively or individually was wrong. He was correct in all he said. They weren't performing, they were unfit. Barkley was under performing. Niasse didn't have a future, some others don't have a future.

So Koeman has a forthright way of saying things, so what. This is just what we need after the schmaltzy shite of Martinez. Too many players in the comfort zone and not performing. It was always going to take a long time for the players to adjust. The cup games were the fault of the players.

If you want to blame Koeman to suit your flimsy argument then go ahead but after we have shown the first seeds of recovery with a great win against City, it is piss-poor to yet again have a go at Koeman for the players' poor performances in cup games this season. Just enjoy the win or did the good performance stick in the throat, such is your dislike of Koeman?

John G Davies
35 Posted 18/01/2017 at 10:33:08
Dave,

It's difficult for some Blues to rid themselves of the negativity of recent years. They are stuck in the "glass half-empty" gang. Perpetually looking back instead of forward.

We have a maanger who is moving the club forward.We have an owner who is at long last bringing a ruthless professionalism to the club. We have a squad developing that will progress us on the field. We are moving to a riverside stadium. And still we have whingeing.

Best leave them to it and concentrate on our own positivity.

David Graves
36 Posted 18/01/2017 at 11:34:43
Sorry, John, but it's not overly negative to state the obvious that going out of both cups so early represents a significant failing of the manager. Effectively we're now only playing for seventh place as I can't believe that any of the top 6 are going to suffer a catastrophic blow-up given their current form.

Prior to the City game I don't see how you could claim that we have a developing squad and a manager who is moving us forward. I've said on another thread that perhaps we should see where we are after the next 6 games before we start heralding a new found optimism.

If we've won 4/5 and picked up a couple of new signings then I'll happily join your glass half-full gang!

As for stating that we are moving into a a new riverside stadium – I'm delighted that you are so confident!

Don Alexander
37 Posted 18/01/2017 at 12:51:19
Like Dave Ganley, I'm very much looking forward to far better times with Koeman.

Looking back, however, I guess my beef with the players had its origins at the end of Martinez's first season when, with a very real chance of outright Champions League qualification, they in effect capitulated in the last three matches. Had they not done so, some significant cash would have been available for more signings, to the cost of regular places for some.

In my opinion, Martinez then took us on a major slide downwards. I supported the words and actions of players who stood up to be counted in trying to arrest the decline, such as Baines, Jagielka, Coleman, Lukaku and Distin.

And then Koeman arrived and bluntly, very bluntly admittedly, spelt out the truth. Too many of our squad aren't good enough and some who are are lazy. Quibbling about whether or not Davies and Holgate should have been in from day one is beside the point. He wanted to give some of the big earners the chance to prove their worth to him. Some have failed so he now plays the youngsters, and starts signing players hopefully worthy of the term 'professional'.

I just hope that against Palace we don't see another lacklustre effort that we've had to put up with so often this season after a win. Somehow, with the effective introduction of four or five new players since the turn of the year, I doubt it.

John G Davies
38 Posted 18/01/2017 at 17:37:09
David (#36),

I agree but would add it was also a failing of the players as well as the manager.

All due respect I am claiming it after the City game. We have a developing squad because the additions to date in January have enhanced the quality and balance of the squad.

The manager has moved us forward four league positions from last season's 11th finishing position. I would have thought that was acceptable in his first season. It certainly is in my opinion.

Darren Hind
39 Posted 18/01/2017 at 19:33:25
Dave Ganley,

On the contrary, I was jumping up and down with delight on Sunday.

All season long, I have been listening to the excuse that the players poor old Ronnie had inherited were "nowhere near not good enough" ... Can you imagine the delight I took in seeing that half baked excuse blown completely to fuck?

Most of the players he had signed were either dropped, injured or unavailable and worra ya know. The players he inherited (the shite ones) gave him the biggest result of his managerial career.

If you think Pep and Jose have not been roundly criticised from all quarters you must be living in cuckoo land. The pressure on them has been so intense they've both come close to having very public meltdowns.

Despite the offensive ugliness of our football and the embarrassing cup exits (which according to you, he has nothing to do with), the worst Koeman has had to face from Everton fans is a silent crowd and an admittedly growing band of critics on football forums. In comparison, you're "victim" has got away with fucking murder.

I see the "glass half-full" crowd have resurfaced. My biggest problem with the self proclaimed "positives" is the seem to have this bizarre notion that a refusal to accept shite is in some way "negative".

You don't have to have an especially good memory or even stray from this site to see the damage these self proclaimed "Glass half-full" people can do.

"Get behind Martinez you negative bastards" they shouted at those who wouldn't accept dross.

Turns out; The "negative bastards" were right.

Turns out; That all that unnecessary "negativity" was actually bang on the money.

Turns out, that by accepting shite football and happy clapping their way through cup exits... The "positives" were actually encouraging our equally "positive" chairman to extend his contract.

TURNS OUT ... That these "glass half-full" positives cost us another season of misery and around £10m in compensation.

Their "positive" outlook had the most profoundly negative effect on our club.

Peter McHugh
40 Posted 18/01/2017 at 19:53:20
Darren, we've been shit for years except for one season under Martinez when actually, we were quite good overall. The Arsenal &

Man Utd games away and home together with Liverpool at home that season spring to mind). To be fair other games under him that first season were down right boring as we played it across the back - the Anfield derby was embarrassing as it gets (at least I thought it was til last season).

However, we've not been very good for 30 years – Moyes and Royle made us quite a bit better than what they inherited but still not v good in all honesty.

How you blame that on fans being "positive" is bollocks – nothing to do with the fans who give unbelievable support, Particularly away from home.

You state they have the most profoundly negative effect on the club – I say without our fans Moshiri would never have been interested and hopefully a new positive era awaits.

Darren Hind
41 Posted 18/01/2017 at 19:58:58
Peter

You misinterpret what I'm saying.

We have the best fans in the game, it's not the knowledgeable long-suffering Evertonians I'm talking about here, it's self-proclaimed "glass half-full" happy clappers who accept shite in the name of "positivity"

Happy clapping – the enemy of ambition.

John G Davies
42 Posted 18/01/2017 at 20:01:02
You keep your positive slant on things Dave. Keep the glass half full mate. Far more beneficial to look at things with a positive outlook. Life in general runs better with a positive outlook not just football.

I try to avoid negative, grey drab people. People who darken the rooms they walk into. It's hard enough being a Blue without wallowing in negativity.

What Koeman has done is done. I am more interested on what is to come. I have been firmly in the "glass half-full" gang concerning Koeman since the day he signed. No flip-flopping in this gang.

Dave Ganley
43 Posted 18/01/2017 at 22:21:17
To be honest, Darren, you may be right. 18 months down the line he may have flopped miserably, a la Martinez, and we find ourselves back to square one. However we may not. All I'm saying is give him a chance.

Where he differs from Martinez is that he has taken over a club completely in disarray. He has a hell of a job to change the mindset of the players from being bone idle and getting away with any old shite performance to being professional and being the best you can be.

Martinez took over a club that, whilst limited, for most part the players gave their all. He managed to destroy that in 3 short years. Koeman has to rebuild that. Those cup games were a legacy of Martinez's era. We cannot judge how good bad or indifferent Koeman will be in just a few short months.

Being an Evertonian, you have to have a degree of optimism and this is mine. I want to believe he will get it right. As I say he may fall flat on his face but until we have given him a chance to bed in and get these shit players to finally realise their potential and play like a team then I will support him and would like to think other supporters will do the same. Sunday does not constitute a new dawn but it's a start.

Jack Farrell
44 Posted 18/01/2017 at 23:22:45
Koeman is not a magician, the jury is still out on him, I have confidence in him, however, it is plain to see that he will not tolerate the lack of effort on the pitch that Martinez did. Perhaps the fact that he was such a great player himself gives him more kudos with his players.

I really think we need to give him time, there is a lot of work to be done on the strength and balance of the squad, but it is my opinion that Koeman has enough about him that he should be given the full backing of the board for at least 2 years to get his 'project' moving.

Dan Davies
45 Posted 19/01/2017 at 00:21:38
Although I don't agree with everything Darren says I have to say acceptance of low standards is what has held Everton back for so long.

Personally I think we can judge Koeman after two whole seasons. People are entitled to their opinions. Positive/negative whatever.

Without fans like Darren, we could be the next Newcastle. Or Leeds even. Let's keep our standards high and push on. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum. Tough love.

Darren Hind
46 Posted 19/01/2017 at 06:00:19
You've come up with some strong arguments, Dave. No happy clapping from you.

It would be idiotic to ignore what's gone on this season because that has a lot to do with where we are, but you are right – spilt milk and all that.

I think we now have the team to improve against "better" teams who will come at us, but I still expect us to struggle against teams who will stand in front of us and challenge us to break them down. We have no option but to give Koeman the opportunity to find more creativity because he is going to get it anyway.

I can say in all honesty that I hope Koeman does turn it around and you are the one who turns out to be right in this little debate. Being right would offer no consolation whatsoever for still being shite.

Andy Crooks
47 Posted 19/01/2017 at 14:46:34
Darren, I cannot recall you ever calling for Koeman to go. We have played some dross this season and are out of both cups; your criticism is pertinent. However,my original post was really Yes, he looks great in the Under-23s, but so did Niasse. we are where we are, let us look for positives.

I think the City game was a glimmer of light but I expect some disappointment too. As long as we are moving forward on and off the pitch I will defend Koeman, but not blindly.

I bowed to no one in my critcism of the last Moyes years and most of the Martinez era. I just have a good feeling about the next few years.

Jim Harrison
48 Posted 19/01/2017 at 15:12:36
Sorry if it has been said already, I have not read all the posts, but the rest of the season is about putting Everton in the shop window to players. A team with promise and a plan.

Ronald Koeman knows how he wants the team to play, it's widely known that he wants new signings. Are Everton a club that can attract ambitious players? A strong showing until the end can help promote that image.

For those players still at the club, very few will be on top clubs radars, can they prove they have what it takes?

Darren Hind
49 Posted 20/01/2017 at 19:46:04
Andy (#47)

I know. I get what you were saying and don't think you were trying to sweep anything under the carpet.

I have been reading your posts for years, you've never been shy about voicing your opinion when you feel somebody isn't performing. I don't think there is any danger of you ever labelled a happy clapper.

Good to see you upbeat, Let's hope you'll be even more so about 5pm tomorrow.

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