Bricks and Mortar

by   |   27/03/2017  38 Comments  [Jump to last]

In the days just before the Coleman injury and the nonsense with Lukaku's contract my daily Everton time was spent contemplating Bramley Moore Dock.

I remember my Dad used to park outside it when he would take me and my sisters down to the Sunday market as kids, and I remember always being struck by the enormous brick pillars that stand, grandiose over the entrance. I haven't been in the 25+ years since, but the memory is still quite sharp, and always has been.

It got my thinking about how great it would be if the club retained them as part of the new stadium design, and then I did a bit of research and found out that these pillars, along with 2 other buildings in the complex at Bramley Moore Dock, are actually listed - so the club (or anyone else for that matter) can't take them down.

This begs the question - how will the club incorporate these older buildings into the new design for our new home? And, perhaps more pertinently, what does this restriction mean for the stadium design in general?

I started google imaging a number of brick-based stadiums. I know LucasOil Field in Indianapolis has been mentioned - and that is an impressive arena. Also - the Rangers stadium - Ibrox. That is older, but even the modern extensions have been based around the main brick stand that we all see whenever there is a reporter outside on the TV.

At this point I should confess to knowing very little about the intricacies of construction and the materials it takes to build a large stadium - but the elephant in the room is the presence of our billionaire owner's access to the steel industry. Does this mean that we will end up with a steel-based construction that deliberately contrasts itself to the 19th century brick around it. Something like the images we are seeing of the new Chelsea ground, or the Bird's Nest in China.

Perhaps the answer is a happy medium - something like SafeCo Field (home of the Seattle Mariners baseball team), which is built of modern materials, but maintains the look of the older buildings that are nearby.

Side-bar: Seattle, as a city, actually really reminds me of Liverpool. Has anyone been and felt the same?

Anyway - I just thought I would start a discussion about the overall look of the new stadium, what fans are expecting and what they would like to see. Nothing to do with capacity or number of corporate boxes, or even the presence of a dreaded running track. Just the architectural aesthetics and how we get it to match the listed buildings around the site.

Looking forward to sparking a positive discussion about something we can all get excited about.

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Reader Comments (38)

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Mike Galley
1 Posted 27/03/2017 at 19:40:26
This is only a small thing I suppose, but it would nice if we could incorporate some of the Archibald Leitch criss-cross pattern in the new designs.
John Tyrrell
2 Posted 27/03/2017 at 00:14:47
I would love a stadium to similar design to the Lucas Oil Stadium with bricks to complement the dock heritage. As for the steel, the stadium will be made from steel whatever... the bricks are just a cover ,like many stadiums use glass as a covering.

Only thing looking how much Lucas Oil Stadium cost — not sure how we would pay for it.

Dan Davies
3 Posted 28/03/2017 at 01:12:30
As much as I would love a space age, state-of-the-art, blow-your-mind... "What a fucking stadium that is!" type stadium, I have to say that, if we ended up with something similar to Lucas Oil, I would be over the moon.
David S Shaw
4 Posted 28/03/2017 at 09:14:46
If it looks fantastic on the outside I'll be very disappointed.

A quality stadium should be able to expand 3 or 4 sides in line with our progress.

So why spend big money on a fantastic exterior when in 10 years we will hopefully be extending it?

Phil Walling
5 Posted 28/03/2017 at 09:31:12
The challenges which this god-forsaken site presents will almost certainly prove too formidable for development to ever get past the preliminary stage.

Why all this obsession with a waterfront location? Are we building a marina or a practical and affordable football stadium?

Sean Randles
7 Posted 28/03/2017 at 11:12:58
Are we really sure we want our stadium to be next door to a sewage treatment works? No wonder the land is so cheap.
Daniel Lim
8 Posted 28/03/2017 at 11:34:09
David, I am no engineer but is it possible that one or two or three sides of the stadium can be moved so that we can add more seats in the future? Maybe it is not impossible?
David S Shaw
9 Posted 28/03/2017 at 11:51:30
Daniel Lim – I don't know if we are designing it to expand but I'd expect that if we do then to add extra seats or a tier it would also mean adding that same distance to the exterior to incorporate it?

So any fancy design would surely be built over by the extension?

Alasdair Mackay
10 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:01:23
David and Daniel.

So is the answer to have 4 independent stands and 4 independent corners (rather than a bowl)?

This is more likely to sit well with the surrounding architecture AND it allows for stand-by-stand expansion in the future.

Alasdair Mackay
11 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:05:35
I was at the Olympic Stadium in East London on Sunday.

Three sides of that retract to create room for a running track. Perhaps 4 independent stands built on tracks would allow for a flexible capacity. That way we can control the cost of the operations for "lower profile" games (like early rounds of the cups), but then expand for the derby, Man Utd and Champions League games.

Maybe that is a bit too futuristic!?

Eugene Ruane
12 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:09:58
Phil Walling (#5) – 'Why all this obsession with a waterfront location? Are we building a marina or a practical and affordable football stadium?'

'Obsession'!?

There were two sites on offer.

1) Bramley-Moore, a site in the centre(ish) of the city. A site in an area of re-generation. A visitor-friendly site close to hotels, buses, trains. A site that will make our stadium part of an iconic skyline.

Or...

2) Fucking Crocky.

My opinion is your fact-free, semantics-heavy, alehouse blowhard routine is getting very stale.

However, if I'm wrong, you could show me up by providing a detailed and factual (nb: no guesswork!) account of why 'The challenges which this god forsaken site presents will almost certainly prove too formidable for development to ever get past the preliminary stage.' And how you're more qualified to know what will happen than those who made the decision and will be putting the deal together.

(Waves empty glass "When you're ready, Maureen!... So yeah like I was sayin', the Incas invented beans on toast, like...")

Brian Hennessy
13 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:10:36
Why on earth do people waste money on people with college degrees and years of construction experience when our very own expert, and eternal optimist, Phil Walling, has concluded that this site is a waste of time and can't be built on?

Dermot Byrne
14 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:10:51
I won't enter a discussion with Phil W about Why a waterside stadium, apart from suggesting reading a bit about City of Liverpool history and heritage.

But as to which kind of stadium. I love the Lucas Oil Stadium.It will stand the changing weather of fashion.

To help add to debate, this site shows some interesting ones Link

I like the Dortmund and Amsterdam designs too.

David S Shaw
15 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:14:51
Alasdair MacKay – what you say about having four independent stands so that each can increase makes sense to me. Though I wouldn't be surprised if they could also do it for other types, well they've increased Man City's recently so they must be able to.
Alan McGuffog
16 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:19:29
Mike, not a small point at all. We should retain part or all of the Leitch facade (if that is what it is). I commend the idea to the house...
Dermot Byrne
17 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:28:42
Brent Stephens
18 Posted 28/03/2017 at 12:52:48
Phil (#5), when all this goes out to consultation, I'll suggest they retain one seat at Goodison Park for you, so you can watch the video link to the game at Bramley-Moore. If they keep the sound down, you'll probably be able to hear the roar from Bramley-Moore...

"You know what you are, you know what you are, oh Phil Walling, you know what you are".

And I hope they still serve (only) Chang for you.

John Keating
19 Posted 28/03/2017 at 19:41:51
Alasdair,

Looks as if the new ground is off. Some tree-hugger is warning us that by the year 2100 when Liverpool will be holding the Olympics, due to global warming, the stadium is more likely to be used for the swimming than the footy.

Chris Gould
20 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:06:38
'Hear the roar from Bramley-Moore.'

Loving that, Brent. Goosebumps.

Eugene Ruane
21 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:18:20
Those retractable roofs, do they make them so they close/open in sections?

I like the idea of closing the roof when it's pissing down, but leaving a section over the away supporters open.

Phil Bellis
22 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:22:35
Mr Walling... Reading that, I confess I'm like the Looney Tunes when Mel Blanc passed away.
Joe McMahon
23 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:35:44
I know i'm in the minority, but I'd prefer no Leitch in any new stadium. I want to look to the future and not some shrine to the antiquated relic that is Goodison Park. This move can't come soon enough. This is only my opinion guys.

Found this interesting quote on Castleford Tigers today on BBC sport and their new stadium plans (same as Everton really):

"Wheldon Road has been both an advantage and a disadvantage for Castleford, providing an intimate and sometimes intimidating atmosphere on match days, but lacking in modern facilities that other clubs benefit from in terms of revenue."

Tony Abrahams
24 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:39:26
I believe Phil is from Wigan, which might explain why he might want our team to build on the East Lancs Road?
Brian Williams
25 Posted 28/03/2017 at 20:53:23
Joe McMahon. Fully agree. Ultra modern in every way.
Phil Bellis
26 Posted 28/03/2017 at 21:37:22
Okay... Give you ultra modern, FU Archie, but can the lads not run out first time on the dock of the bay with centre partings, droopie mussies, wearing black shirts with a ruby sash? Just once?
Jip Foster
27 Posted 29/03/2017 at 07:38:03
It could be done using a steel frame with brick cladding. It looks like how it was done for the Lucas Oil Stadium.

I thought that the lower section of the stadium could be done a bit like the Albert Dock area – red columns and brick cladding.

The upper section could be something different to allow future tiers to be added (constructing up and out).

Jip Foster
28 Posted 29/03/2017 at 08:17:42
*but with blue columns - not red of course!
David S Shaw
29 Posted 29/03/2017 at 08:56:50
I disagree, Joe McMahon. I'm not pleased that we're moving stadium as the stadium is the one constant in your identity. I of course accept and understand the reasons for moving.

So retaining features such as the Leitch criss-cross, a restoration of the old Main Stand Gable is a great way of nodding to our past without doing some stupid, pointless and expensive attempt at making it unique.

Mark Hughes
30 Posted 29/03/2017 at 15:59:11
Rob Halligan
31 Posted 29/03/2017 at 16:30:49
So, the city of Liverpool dates back as far as possibly 1190, and has stood on the river Mersey all this time. What's that, well over a thousand years. Everton suddenly announce they are to build a new stadium on the banks of the Mersey, and next minute the whole city centre, and beyond, is going to be engulfed under millions of gallons of water!!

Yeah right. And who is predicting this? Some gobbie RS scum.

Ron Sear
32 Posted 29/03/2017 at 16:54:54
It is a matter of legal prudence for any architect constructing anything along a riverbank or seashore to take into account the consequences of tidal and weather related flooding. The Mersey is prone to flooding even without taking into account the denial of actual measured rising sea levels from the scientifically illiterate.

Anybody who has sailed along the Mersey in seriously bad conditions (and I have) will be aware of how close the Mersey comes to overflowing its walls under the effect of high tides and low Atlantic air pressure. You may well like to take a look at the photographs taken in 2012 to be made aware of the fact that any building has to be made to withstand potential storm conditions in the area as well as any consequence tied to a technical concensus relating to the predicted rise in water level:

River Mersey floods after high tide and strong winds

Dermot Byrne
33 Posted 29/03/2017 at 16:57:15
Mark (#30), As far as I know, the academic was a PhD student with no peer support and probably after a headline to add to Appendix Z!
Dermot Byrne
34 Posted 29/03/2017 at 17:02:11
Mark (#30) who is to judge?

Link

Alasdair Mackay
36 Posted 30/03/2017 at 14:09:31
I don't think rising water levels is a real issue - surely retractable flood barriers are relatively easy to put up.
Thomas Lennon
37 Posted 30/03/2017 at 22:16:27
The whole of the city will be under water if the new stadium floods. Everton FC will be the least most of us will be worrying about if that happens – but that is 50 to 100 years in the future and, in all likelihood, we will move before then if the risk rises.
Jon Withey
38 Posted 30/03/2017 at 23:33:15
We should build it on sticks like Venice.
Dennis Stevens
39 Posted 31/03/2017 at 10:33:36
I'm still in the "redevelop Goodison Park" camp; I think the club will lose something when it relocates again. Furthermore, I do hope we won't see a new club formed at our old ground after we depart, as happened last time!
Brent Stephens
40 Posted 31/03/2017 at 18:40:41
Liverpool Council today agreed the financial plan. One small step for the Council, one giant leap (well) for Everton.

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