Lukaku vs Rooney vs ??

by   |   08/04/2017  35 Comments  [Jump to last]

Lukaku is not signing a new contract and is probably off to Chelsea at the end of the season. My initial opinion is if he doesn't want to play for us, sell him and spend the money on someone else. But who? Strong rumours that Rooney could be heading back to Goodison, heart says yes, head says no.

At the age of 23 Rooney had scored 80 Premier League goals, Lukaku has scored 81. In the last 3 seasons Rooney has scored a total of 22 goals, this season Lukaku has scored 21 (with 7 games to go)!

If Rooney does rejoin Everton (and I hope he doesn't), rumour is he would take a 50% wage cut and agree to $150k per week. Looking at value for money alone, it would better business to double Rom's wage, and get him to sign. Everyone has their price, just need to find his. There is no loyalty in football anymore, so it becomes purely a business transaction, a negotiation.

If he still won't sign, keep him for another season and sell him then.

Looking at the current "proven" strikers in the Premier League, who are comparable to Lukaku, none would be available to us. So that means buying a striker like Rooney, Costa or Aguero, who may be surplus to their respective clubs requirements at the end of this season. I am not keen on that.

So we are left we taking a risk on an "unknown", up and coming striker. It is a risk that I am not sure we can take as our main frontline striker. So, to conclude, break the bank to keep Lukaku, because there ain't many strikers who are as prolific as him, at the moment. Keep developing our younger strikers (Lookman, Calvert-Lewis) and buy a "risky" unknown, but keep Lukaku, for his goals.

Oh, for those who will reply that Lukaku doesn't run, can't control the ball etc etc etc, I don't care about that. If the club spends money on a striker, it wants to buy goals, and Lukaku scores goals. Simple.

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Alex Higgins
1 Posted 08/04/2017 at 16:16:35
See Danny Murphy is touting the sale of Lukaku to Chelsea at end of season on BBC site .

Wish these ex reds would keep their big gobs shut and restrict themselves to something they know about.

Everon will decide if and when we sell him.He has two years left on his contract .The media need to get this into thier thick sculls.

What is it with the media ,if they are not touting our players then our manager.

Patrick Murphy
2 Posted 08/04/2017 at 18:43:46
Andy, like many Blues, I have issues with Rom and his behaviour but I also think that we'll be worse off if he decides to move in the summer. If I was Moshiri, I would get him in my office and tell him that he won't suddenly become even better and there are no guarantees that if he moves he will be an automatic choice for whichever club he decides to join; therefore staying at Goodison would make more sense.

Another season wouldn't hurt his career and if he concentrates his focus on being an Everton player rather than looking wistfully at the Champions League, he may just improve enough to prove that he is the player he thinks he is.

Conversely, can Everton afford to have a player who constantly looks to move on and will he continue to score the number of goals required to justify him staying?

Whichever way you look at it, there is a major decision to be made by the club and the player; the odds at the moment would suggest that both parties would benefit from him staying at Everton.

Jim Lloyd
3 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:14:54
A lot depends on what Rom wants to do this Summer. He indicated that he wanted to see better players come in the January window and they didn't come. He may well be looking at who we get before the season starts. He's also reputed to have said that he wants to help Everton win silverware, well he can't do that if he leaves.

We're not going to be able to see the future but I look at it this way. If he stays, then he is going to want to see us have a better complement of top class players come in.

If he decides he wants away, we're going to have a major problem replacing him. As the goals tally among our other players is fairly poor, we're going to either somehow see more goals scored from other members or we find player who can score regularly and we need to get in players in other positions or have a better record of scoring goals than our current crop.

So on to Wayne Rooney. For my money, I'd like to see him in our squad, either with Rom or without Rom. If Rom stays, I think that – not only will Rooney create more chances for Rom and any other of our forward player, I think – once he gets his confidence back, he'll weigh in with his fair share of goals.

His legs may possibly be going but his brain is as sharp as many of the most creative players in the Premiership.

If Rom goes, the it'd depend on who else we could get to replace him (and if Leicester's centre forward happened to come available, I'd like to see him at our club.) Vardy not only scores goals, he's the type of ferreting, hungry player who won't give opposing defences a minute.

My thoughts are that Wayne would benefit our club whether Rom stays or not. I don't see the situation as a Rom versus Wayne.

I see it very much as Wayne would be a valuable addition to the squad. I look at Ross and, to me, this season will be a deciding one for him.

Among many other decisions our Manager has to make, is: Can Ross improve on where he is now? He may well gain benefit from having Wayne around. My guess would be that Ronald will be after a more effective player. If he can't get such a player, Ross will have to improve his game for us to reach the top six.

So whatever happens, I think Wayne would be a useful addition, either with Rom, or without him.

Brian Williams
4 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:16:04
I'm quite confident he'll be going nowhere this summer unless somebody offers silly money, and by that I mean 㿼m - 䀆m. There's no sense in Everton selling him during the summer unless we could get that sort of money.

I'm sure Koeman will have had words with Moshiri and that between them they have a plan. Remember, Lukaku can't demand to leave while he's under contract, the Webster ruling not withstanding, and the club are unlikely to sanction his leaving until he's down to one year to go on his present contract, IMO.

Colin Glassar
5 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:24:55
First of all, we don't need to sell Rom as he still has 2 years left on his contract, so we could stand firm like we did with Stones and sell him after next season.

We have a strong hand here as we could ask for 㿼m now and see if there are any takers or ask for 㿞m and a player in exchange, eg, Batsuyahi or Ihenacho.

Rom's problem is: Who will cough up what we demand and, will he be a starter.? Guardiola won't want him, neither will Mourinho. That leaves (in the Premier League) Chelsea (Arsenal won't pay) but does Conte want him? Apparently not according to some reports.

None of the Big 4 (Madrid, Barcelona, Milan and Munich) appear interested so that leaves PSG. Would Rom want to play in a Mickey Mouse league?

So for Rom things don't look so straightforward. Yes, he's a goal scorer but the elite teams want the complete package and Rom ain't that yet, not for that kind of money anyway.

As for Rooney, well with the Lukaku money I'd go for the quick fix and get the golden oldies – Kompany, Fabregas and Rooney in (if they can prove their fitness). If they can still deliver the goods, they could be great for our younger lads.

Dermot Byrne
6 Posted 08/04/2017 at 19:38:05
Ever wonder if the reason the others in the team do not score is down to Rom?

I am so torn on the fella that I will be OK whether he stays or goes. But I agree, I bet Koeman and Moshiri have a plan.

Brian Wilkinson
7 Posted 08/04/2017 at 20:36:56
For all Bobby Brown Shoes faults, he played hardball in Stones and Lukaku, we got top whack for Stones, now he's saying Lukaku is worth well over the 㿲 million; keep pushing the price up Bobby.

To be honest, I think Lukaku will still be here next season, not because he will give us one more season but because I do not see other teams offering the money we want.

As for Rooney, I would give the guy a 2-year contract; legs are a little slower but the football brain still there.

Andy Crooks
8 Posted 08/04/2017 at 21:37:08
I think that Rooney and Lukaku in the same side would be worth seeing.
Don Alexander
11 Posted 08/04/2017 at 22:02:52
I too think Rooney and Lukaku would be worth seeing in the same side; PSG's!

Massively earning a bollocking off Ashley Williams tells me there's little chance of him, Lukaku, now mending bridges with the team-mates he so publicly, repeatedly disrespects, so, for mega-bucks, I'd see him off this summer. If he wants to play like he cares about his club and us fans, so be it, but he's been woeful in attitude and performance, again, in the last two games against teams struggling, as we should have been this season, to win a place in the top four.

Who we'd sign to replace him is a mystery but that's what Messrs Walsh and Koeman are so well paid to do. Maybe a midfield four of Schneiderlin, Gana, Davies and Sigurdsson (for instance) would enable us to sign two proper goal-scoring strikers who put a shift in to regain the ball as well. Lets see them earn their money.

Darryl Ritchie
12 Posted 09/04/2017 at 07:22:08
There's no way Lukaku will be here past the summer. He scores goals, but I can't remember any player that's been as divisive, for both players and fans. Talented and lazy. Intelligent and incredibly dense. Plenty of arguments for and against, with every argument true. He will be gone because he doesn't want to be here.

I would like to see Rooney back, but he's been at it, at the highest level, for a long time. He's a very old 31. The rumour is that he'd come back at 50% of his current wage, but I think even that would be too much. It's very unlikely that he would remain healthy an entire season. In any event, I see him as a second striker or an impact sub in the midfield; when fit.

The position of "striker", is wide open. No guarantee Valencia will be here, and the kids are not ready to lead the front line yet. This is where we find out if the reputation Walsh has built up, is warranted. There are plenty of talented strikers out there, but convincing one (with talent comes ego), to commit to Everton, is the big challenge.

The next window will be crucial to the Everton project.

Ajay Gopal
13 Posted 09/04/2017 at 07:37:46
Quite amusing that Danny Murphy slyly talks about Lukaku going for "in excess of 㿨 million" as though that is a huge amount in today's market. If Greizman (26 years old, no Premier League experience) is being talked about in the 㿼+ million category, Lukaku with about 80 Premier League goals at the age of 24 should go for at least that amount.

To replace Lukaku, knowing Koeman's penchant for proven Premier League experience, I see Rooney as an excellent option, he can give us at least 3 years of top performance. Moshiri and Kenwright have to get a bit creative with Rooney. Instead of offering cash, they should think about structuring an equity incentive with a small base salary for Rooney. For example 㿞k per week plus 0.5% of EFC ownership for every Champions League that he gets Everton to qualify (for example).

With the Lukaku money, try to get a really top player in part exchange. For example Fabregas and 㿨million cash in exchange for Lukaku. Then use about that 㿨 million to get a couple of really top proven Premier League goal scorers (King from Bournemouth, Antonio from West Ham, Perez from Arsenal, or Negredo from Swansea).

We would need to invest heavily to revamp the back 4. One left-back and at least two centre-backs. Nyom from West Brom, Keane from Burnley and Maguire from Hull would cost about 㿨-70 million between them. Put off investing in a new goalie until next January. By selling Cleverley, Lennon, Niasse, McGeady, Jagielka, Kone, Funes Mori, Besic, Deulofeu, Mirallas, we could get 㿞 Million easily. The first team could look like:

Robles, Coleman, Keane, McGuire, Nyom, Schneiderlin, Gueye, Fabregas, Barkley, Rooney, King

Backed up by:

Stekelenburg, Holgate, Williams, Pennington, Galloway, Baines, Barry, Davies, McCarthy, Bolasie, Antonio, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin.

If Walsh and Moshiri do some wheelin' and dealin', with a net spend of about 㿊 million, we can get a really top squad to challenge the big boys.


Kieran Fitzgerald
14 Posted 09/04/2017 at 07:55:27
There are plenty of decent players who will see Everton as an attractive option. Schneiderlin and Gueye have shown that. We can easily look at the relegated teams alone and pick up their want away players.

The money we could get for Lukaku alone would pick up three quality players. We have already offloaded Cleverley, Gibson and Oviedo so there are wages available. Selling Ross would allow another two players.

We could have five to six players in place for the sale of two and be no worse off financially. This would leave us the money to pay Rooney's wages, I can't see Man Utd. looking for a fee, and still be able to put money aside for the new stadium.

Stan Schofield
16 Posted 09/04/2017 at 14:58:19
I didn't know who Danny Murphy was until I joined ToffeeWeb last year. There's too much attention on the media, which is full of nonesense as usual, and a lot of daft talk about getting rid of Lukaku, apparently influenced by the various media 'pundits', judging by some of the posts on TW. A grip on reality is needed.
Andy Osborne
17 Posted 09/04/2017 at 15:35:44
Stan #16 I suppose the reality is Lukaku has said he won't sign a new contract, the reality is, he has 2 years left on his existing contract, so we don't need to sell, (just yet). But the important thing (reality) is to make sure that we have the firepower for next season. At the end of the day, it is about spending money to buy goals. It's the "Moneyball" approach. I just think that the best use of the clubs money to "buy" goals next season must include Lukaku.
Joseph Terrence
18 Posted 10/04/2017 at 03:21:55
Keeping hold of Rom is certainly the ideal option. He has two years to run, and with the world cup coming up in 2018, there is no chance that he would sulk and refuse to play were we not to sell him. Supposing he stays next season and refuses to sign a new deal, we would easily be able to recoup at least £28 million in the summer 2018 which would result in 4 years and ~100 goals essentially at the cost of his wages; quite the deal if you ask me.

However, every player has his price, and if silly money was offered, then I think Batshuayi has the potential to be a very, very good player. I would love to see Pickford brought in and signing Keane would be quite the coup as well. Re Rooney, he would absolutely improve the squad and I would love to see him in a blue shirt, but £150 a week is too much at this stage of his career. An incentive-laden contract with would be ideal in his case. Whether or not he would agree to that is unknowable at this stage, but lets not overlook the fact that he is a blue and hope that he will be willing to come back home.

Ronnie Pearce
19 Posted 10/04/2017 at 05:19:32
Surely if Lukaku wants to leave, he will have already had the odious Raiola touting him around the "top" clubs to see if anybody is interested in signing him?

I believe that the reason why he can't seem to make up his mind and give a straight forward statement on the matter, or more pertinently, submit a transfer request, is that no acceptable or even tentative offers are being made.

He utterances smack of "come and get me, but only if you can pay the going rate and are a Champions League regular." I don't believe that he would leave Everton if either of these conditions aren't met.

Even at contract end there is no guarantee that he would attract more salary than he would have been offered by extending his Everton contract. Ultimately he (and his entourage) will be pragmatic and if no acceptable offers come in, he will extend his contract and stay at Everton.

Money talks, bullshit walks.

Whether the constant placing himself in the shop window is acceptable to the club hierarchy is another issue.

Given the power that elite footballers seem to hold now, it is clear that Everton will have to be smarter in future when discussing contracts with players. Wouldn't it be great to have gag orders, no play no pay, 10% salary cut just for being an arsehole, type clauses inserted in contracts!

As for Rooney, no thanks, not enough energy for today's football. He would get destroyed by some Everton fans if it appeared he wasn't giving his all.

Richard Parker
20 Posted 10/04/2017 at 09:41:06
Rooney can't be compared to Lukaku. Whilst I agree that I don't think a 32-year-old Rooney is right for our club at this point, I don't think goals are where he should be judged.

Definitely can't compare Rom and Rooney as they wouldn't play in the same position.

Would never get Costa or Aguero. Quite simply, we would have to be extremely lucky to replace Rom adequately.

Look at when the RS almost (god forbid) won the Prem on the back of Suarez's goals. Sold for £75M and couldn't replace him...

But he wants to play on a bigger stage and his stats support the ambition -– although I think his technical deficiencies will stop him from ever playing for one of the truly top sides.

Tony J Williams
21 Posted 10/04/2017 at 12:52:09
Why is it either or?

I think Rooney will be coming no matter what, it is not linked to whether Lukaku stays or goes.

Rooney will not be the the marquee signing, he will be a signing along side the others.

If Lukaku stays, great, if he goes his fee will buy someone worthy of taking his place.

Hope he stays but not arsed if he goes

Dave Ganley
23 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:52:47
I'm a bit like others really regarding Lukaku, if he stays great if he goes then fair enough. I'm very interested to see who his suitor would be in the summer. After the derby and united game, he shows he doesn't influence the big games in a way that Costa, Ibrahimovic and the like do. Yes Lukaku has had his moments like any player but doesn't do it consistently in the big games. Think the semi last year at Wembley. If he goes then his goals will be soaked up by others. We may even create more as whoever takes his place may actually look to bring others into play and not be selfish all the time.

As for Rooney, we discussed this at the game yesterday. If we could get a couple of years out of him in that hole behind the striker then it would be wages well spent. I also don't see this as an either or signing, I would like Rooney playing behind Lukaku, could see plenty of goals coming then.

Problem with Lukaku is that he comes across as bigger than everyone else. I want to see a team player not a superstar in his own mind. I want to see Koeman tell him to mind his own business over who comes in or goes. Either sign or go, same as he's said to Ross. It's too dangerous to have one player who holds so much sway. I'm sick and tired of the same rhetoric all the time. Either go or stay but stop pissing around waiting for the so called dream move. No player is bigger than the club.

James Stewart
24 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:08:07
@23 The stats don't really back that up though. Lukaku has scored more against the big 6 than Aguero, Costa, Ibrahimovic and Kane so I don't buy that lazy point of view perpetrated by the media that Lukaku is a bully.

Selling Lukaku to a league rival would be suicide. I can understand it if a Real, Bayern or Barca come him for him but I would hope we simply refuse to do business with Chelsea and United. Rom is now at a similar level to Suarez when Liverpool bought him and look how he turned out.

We should be signing some Champion's League quality players and offering him £200k p/w if we are seriously ambitious.

Thomas Surgenor
25 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:23:58
I'm of the honest opinion that we will not be able to replace Lukaku with anyone close to his caliber.

However, I'm sure Atletico fans were on forums saying the exact same thing about Torres, Forlan, Hulk, Augero, Vieri, Falcao, Costa, Mandzukic

So it can be done!

Martin Nicholls
26 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:26:40
James (#24) – spot on with all points.
Dave Ganley
27 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:41:33
James (#24) not advocating selling to a rival but it's not lazy punditry about Lukaku in big games. When the others aren't scoring they are still influencing big games with they're all round play. Lukaku doesn't do that. How many big games has he influenced. Chelsea cup game last year but apart from that I'm struggling to remember many more.

I agree we should be buying Champions League players but problem we have is that we can't attract them until we can promise Champions League football. This is where your star players like Lukaku and Barkley need to shine in big games and influence and win them but neither has done that. Stats don't mean a whole lot, they don't tell the whole picture.

James Hughes
28 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:43:23
Dave (#23), I don't agree with that last paragraph, he is a team player, maybe not the ideal role model. did you not see Lukaku celebrating Davies and Jags' goals he was more than happy for his team mates.

I would rather have an ambitious player at Everton rather than elsewhere, or one who is happy to plod along. If we do sell then as said by James S. it should be abroad not to a rival.

Brent Stephens
29 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:49:07
Dave (#27) – the problem with saying stats don't tell the whole story is that it looks flakey if you then look to use stats:

"How many big games has he influenced. Chelsea cup game last year but apart from that I'm struggling to remember many more". – That sounds like counting / sums/ stats.

Dave Ganley
30 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:24:17
Not really Brent, I'm asking the question as to how many big games he has influenced apart from the Chelsea game, no stats, no hidden agenda to back my cause, just asking the question.
Brent Stephens
31 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:29:42
Ok, Dave. It's just that asking "how many" takes us into the realm of stats. I guess you're saying you'd not want to use those stats on their own.

Though I'm not sure many people really relies just on stats (you could probably count them on the fingers of one hand! ah, a stat!).

Grant Rorrison
32 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:31:00
Dave (#30). He did score the winner in the 1st leg at home in the League Cup semi-final.
Dave Ganley
33 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:10:53
I'm not saying he's not had his moments, all players do but the 2nd leg he went missing, Wembley against the Mancs was a disaster, the derby and united was not good .when it really matters he has a habit of not stepping up. Now if that sounds like stats Brent then fair enough but true nonetheless. I hope he will make that step up and become that player, but at the moment he's not. If you want to come across as Billy big bollocks then you've got to walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

As for comparing him to Suarez when he went to the RS well imo he's not that good yet. Doesn't mean he won't become that player but I don't think he is yet. Regardless of what you think of Suarez he carried that RS team, continually performing and dragging everyone with him, Lukaku doesnt do that yet

Brent Stephens
34 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:14:44
"Lukaku doesnt do that yet". We both live in hope, Dave!
Dave Ganley
35 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:23:18
We do indeed, Brent.
John Daley
36 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:36:56
James @24,

I take it you are referring to this season alone?

The overall Premier League record of Aguero vs the 'big 6' is much superior to Lukaku's.

These were the stats as they stood at the beginning of March when a similar debate about Lukaku having a bad case of the Cottee cooties was going on (I haven't got time to look for the updated version and, besides, it wouldn't really help Rom's cause any as he's only drawn a couple more blanks since then)

Sergio Aguero

Tottenham: 11 games/10 goals
Man Utd: 8 games/7 goals
Chelsea: 10 games/ 6 goals
Liverpool: 9 games/ 4 goals
Arsenal: 8 games/ 3 goals

46 games / 30 goals

Lukaku:

Tottenham: 8 games/ 1 goal
Man Utd: 10games/ 3 goals
Chelsea: 5 games/ 0 goals
Man City: 10 games/4 goals
Liverpool: 10 games/ 5 goals
Arsenal: 10 games / 1 goal

53 games / 14 goals

As for Harry Kane? He's hot on his heels having featured in half the number of 'big' games:

Man Utd: 6 games/ 0 goals
Chelsea: 6 games/ 3 goals
Man City: 5 games/ 2 goals
Liverpool: 5 games/ 2 goals
Arsenal: 4 games/5 goals

26 games/12 goals

Rob Dolby
38 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:19:27
I am a big fan of both players for various reasons though one is over the hill and on too much cash and the other doesn't want to play for us anymore. I would hate to see both of them in our starting line-up, there would be more movement in John Lewis's shop window. Rooney's legs have gone and Rom only uses his when he faces the goal.

Rom will be gone in the summer to fulfill his massive ambitions of being the best striker in world football. I can only liken his ambitions to that of an X-Factor contestant who thinks that they are the bollocks no matter how limited they are. The bottom line is that he is very good when facing goal and pretty average everywhere else; if a supposed top team wants that type of player fair enough, stump up the cash and lets all move on.

We will hopefully see a different shape to our play with more mobile, hungry attackers who aren't averse to linking up play .

Keith Monaghan
39 Posted 12/04/2017 at 23:33:42
Rom is a far more effective & valuable player than Rooney.

Why would we bring Rooney back? He's started ONE league game for Man Utd this year! A player who's career is in serious decline, which has been aided by his daft lifestyle – he would be of no benefit to us, setting a bad example to our youngsters and bring bad publicity in that there'd be a media frenzy every time he was fit & didn't start.

We need young, fit and ambitious players who are prepared to make the necessary sacrifices to get to the top, not old has-beens who'd have fitted in well in the Walter Smith era.

Oh yes, and he showed EFC no loyalty, couldn't wait to jump ship after one season in the 1st team at the age of 18.

People can criticise Rom all they want, but he's done far more for this club than Rooney ever has done or will do, and I hope he's here for a few years yet.

Bobby Mallon
40 Posted 13/04/2017 at 12:19:03
Andy Osborn, are you saying that at 31 Rooney is not value for money but a 37-year-old Ibrahimovich would be to his club?

Rooney is a great striker and not a good midfielder. He would easily score 20 plus for us as a striker a season given the service.

Rom has scored his goals and he doesn't break sweat because you don't need to run about like a dickhead. Rooney would be the best business for this club especially if he comes on a free.

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