Talks underway with Man City over Stones

28 July  271 Comments  [Jump to last]
Julian Finney/Getty Images
Updated Everton and Manchester City are in negotiations over the proposed transfer of John Stones, as Pep Guardiola admits that his club will try and sign the defender this summer.

Following a claim by BBC Sport that an agreement over a deal, believed to be around £50m, could be struck given that the two clubs are close regarding the valuation of the England international, most of the leading national newspapers are all publishing similar stories in today's editions.

When asked about two of his his reputed transfer targets, Guardiola told the media that, "It's the same answer for Sane - [Stones] is a player for Everton. Everyone knows we're going to try but we will see."

Stones, who travelled with the Everton squad to Germany today, was the subject of intense interest from Chelsea this time last year but despite the defender handing in a transfer request, Everton and then-manager Roberto Martinez held firm given the proximity of the transfer deadline and the desire to keep a promising young team intact.

The Blues struggled last season and Martinez eventually paid for the chronic under-achievement with his job, but even with the ambition shown by new majority shareholder Farhad Moshiri and the appointment of Ronald Koeman doesn't appear to have persuaded Stones to stay at Goodison Park.

Reports that the 22-year-old had informed Everton of his desire to leave have been consistent in recent weeks and it looks as though he will get his wish to link up with new City boss Guardiola at the Etihad Stadium if a deal can be reached.

While the likes of The Times, the Express and the Mail all claim that Guardiola is confident of getting his man, and the Liverpool Echo say that City have accepted that they will have to pay £50m for Stones, The Guardian report that there is an £8m gap in valuation between Everton and City, with the latter hopeful that they can get the Blues to accept around £46m as a compromise but the former holding out for more given that Barnsley are due 15% of the agreed fee.

A part-exchange deal involving striker Wilfried Bony, a £30m signing from Swansea City who has failed so far to live up to that hefty fee, is said to have been rejected by Everton who want an all-cash deal for Stones, as was a £40m bid, according to the Echo.  


Reader Comments (271)

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Tony Abrahams
1 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:30:46
Can't see this whilst Jagielka is a major doubt to be fit for the start of the season
Dan Nulty
2 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:34:16
Great news. Hopefully this will kick start it all. £50 million for Stones is unbelievable business.
Ray Roche
3 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:35:01
Tony, I hope we've got a quality replacement lined up. Especially as Jags is injured as well.
Dave Pritchard
4 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:35:11
I can see this happening as, if we sell Stones, then we will (surely?) be signing another centre back, preferably two as we were short in that department last season. I don't want to see Besic playing there.
James Marshall
5 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:35:16
Good. Not that I wish Stones any ill will, far from it in fact, but this will likely set in motion all our transfer activity.

We all knew he would leave and this is great business if it comes in anywhere near the quoted £50m.

Dave Pritchard
6 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:42:03
If we do get £50 million then maybe we should thank RM for saying no to the £38 million that Chelsea allegedly offerred last year.

Strange to think that Stones's value may have increased by £12 million during a year when he was decidedly average. Even allowing for football's inflation rate, that is still quite surprising.

Stephen Brown
7 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:44:31
Great business if this happens! Sign two DEFENDERS with the proceeds! As long as money is spent wisely I honestly think this will improve the team as defending is 50% of the game and despite all his attributes JS is not great at it!
Mark Tanton
8 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:45:09
We can't hold him against his will forever. We got another season out of him and that is all we could have hoped for. Let's be honest, we should bite their hand off.
James Watts
9 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:47:54
Great news. £50 million, suckers.

Worrying though that we seem to be going for two defensive players from two of the worst Premier League defences in recent history – doesn't fill me with confidence...

William Cartwright
10 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:48:19
It is good business not great business. Good for all parties. I think Guardiola will be a different class of manager with City realizing you cannot simply buy the best ingredients and chuck them in a blender and hey presto. He will have a team strategy, and if Stones fits into it then good for him.

£50m? Good business for the Blues and Barnsley. Also gives Ronald the clarity to follow up with his own strategy.

Time moves on. I will be interested to see success for all parties. Was / is John overrated? possibly, only time will tell. Makes Roy Hodgson's Euro selection process look totally crass. What a stupid prick.

Interesting to see who the replacement will be, Koulibaly or Pennington et al. My preference is still keep the patient approach, hold the line and spend at Christmas when the situation is clearer. Although Jagielka's hammy is a worry...

Karl Jones
11 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:50:24
£50 Million for somebody who has made endless schoolboy defensive errors. Football is insane.
Denis Richardson
12 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:50:57
Quicker it's done, the better. It's been obvious for a while this was going to happen and we need to get it done asap so we can move on. £50m for a defender is ridiculous but we'll take it – ta.

I'm sure Koeman has at least one CB in mind although I'm not sure I'd want to get the guy from Napoli in if we're going to have to pay him over £100k/week. Van Djilk and Funes Mori would make a good pairing although I dread to think what Southampton would ask for him...

Alan McMillan
13 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:51:55
So long as it's not a straight swap for another £50 million City player, Sterling.

I wish him well and hope he realises what a lucky young man he is, given his performances last season.

Paul Holmes
14 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:53:23
Great business for Everton. Did you see him last season?! He does not anticipate the danger quickly enough and is poor in the air (how many goals did we concede from crosses last season). He might improve for City but, let's be honest, the same was said for Sterling and look how that turned out!

We just need to sign no nonsense defenders that Italy employed in the Euros. They are paid to DEFEND, Row Z if necessary, not Cruyff turns in our own box. Great news if we get £50 million.
Mark Tanton
15 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:53:54
You're buying massive potential though, and English, and 15 years of football ahead of him – you can see why they want him so badly, even if he spent most of last season looking like a lost U21.
Mike Dolan
16 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:53:55
I really hope City sign him it will be like receiving a gift from God. Hope Everton get a clause in there for an extra £50k every time he manages to head the ball!

Unbelievably good business if we can get £50M. Maybe we could throw in one of Brian Labone's jock straps to sweeten the deal.

City fans... if you liked Rodwell – you will love Stones!!!
Daniel Lawrence
17 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:54:03
So, £150 million to spend in two weeks...where's Richard Pryor when you need him...?
Kevin Rowlands
18 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:56:12
Unlike some on here, I'm genuinely sad to see him go. I really thought the lad would go on to be an Everton legend... oh well.
Mark Tanton
19 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:56:29
You can certainly see the rationale for appointing Koeman after he had his side sold from under him twice at Southampton.
Steve Jenkins
20 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:58:28
£50M is obviously for potential, not what he currently is worth.

But I certainly wouldn't sell him for less than that, as it'd be really interested to see his development under Koeman, but it's doubtful that'll happen now.

He does have unbelievable potential, and with the right coaching... and and somebody to instill into him the art of defending.

I'm surprised Jose (now at United) isn't fighting tooth and nail to get him there, he could turn Stones into an unbelievable CB.

The bottom line is – on his current form which was shocking at times last season (a good part of which can be put down to OFM system, lack of pressing and low confidence etc), he is more than replaceable, and will not be missed.

As Leicester, Wales, Iceland... have shown you don't have to have the best players to be effective team, if you're organised and work as a team.

Replacements: Koulibaly – doubt he'll come with West London and Chelsea as his other option, looks like that's now in progress.

I'd love Van Dirk, but that doesn't seem likely this season.

Who else are good potential replacements?

Jay Harris
21 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:59:07
If anyone doesn't want to play for the shirt then move them on as quickly as possible. It will only disrupt the dressing room otherwise.

And for £50m I think we could do a lot better. Holgate is maturing rapidly, Galloway, Pennington and Browning are in reserve and if we get a "beast" in who can actually head the ball and clear the area as well as reading the game (something Stones is still learning) that will be good business.

Back that up with Jags and Funes Mori, a top class goalkeeper and that's the defence sorted for next season.

James Stewart
22 Posted 27/07/2016 at 17:59:15
Tired of hearing about Stones. It's been a long time since he looked anything like a £50m player. We need to move on and let him go he obviously can't wait to leave so no point in keeping him. We need a top class replacement brought in first though otherwise we look pretty pathetic.
William Cartwright
23 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:00:00
Mike @ 16 ... Perhaps if we shout it out long and loud enough, someone At City may listen! Cool it guys. Let it happen, run its course and move on, ideally with more money in the kitty.
James Hughes
24 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:02:58
I think Citeh will have a bargain at £50m for a defensive player very comfortable on the ball. YES he makes errors but then he had a manager for the past 3 seasons whose game plan was not to win 1-0. Some might want to bear that in mind when judging his efforts and skills.
Richard Leeming-McHale
25 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:05:44
Yep - agree - good business, as he follows in the footsteps of Lescot
Andy Codling
26 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:09:24
I hope this deal goes through very quickly, great money for someone who I believe to be vastly over-rated. I would rather have a big centre half who knows his job and chips in with a few goals rather than an error prone kid who does "Cruyyf turns" in his own box believing his own hype and obviously doesn't want to be here!
Michael Coville
27 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:10:17
Well it's not £50M is it since we have to pay Barnsley 15%. So we get £42.5M unless City are going to pay Barnsley. Still a good deal financially but I wish he had given us another year since Koeman would be a good teacher and I believe he would have improved Stones defending.

I remember when Rodwell moved to City and said "This is a dream come true", well we all know what happened. I believe Stones is getting some bad advice and this may be a good financial move for him and his agent but he better improve his defending otherwise he may be warming the bench more than he plays.

John Critchley
28 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:12:47
Good luck to the lad, if he goes. But he's not looked a £50m player for months, plus he's now said he wants to leave, for the second time, so bye-bye, John.
Hywel Owen
29 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:14:33
He is not and never will be a centre half as central defenders need to be able to win balls in the air. £50million is incredible for an error prone very ordinary player. Makes you think if the big wigs at City are as clever as they think they are.

He will spend a season on the bench before being moved out on loan to Hull or somewhere similar and then sold on for what he is really worth - about £10 million.
Mark Murphy
30 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:15:45
£50 million
"Bargain"
The
World's
Gone
Mad!!
Mark Boulle
31 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:16:13
I'll be sad to see Stones leave, at his best (which he certainly hasn't been for some time) he makes reading the game look effortless and he can start an attack so well...

That said, anything even close to £50m on a £3m signing is hard to refuse.

More worryingly though, if this were to be concluded in the next week or so, we are down to RFM and the youngsters in central defence for the big kick off, as it doesn't sound like Jags will be ready for the start of the season - even when he's over his latest hamstring trouble, he'll be behind on pre-season fitness work.

Whether or not Stones goes, incoming players are urgently needed. RK seems very sanguine about it all. I'm not, not anymore. July has almost come and gone with not one single senior outfield player added (yes I know we have youngsters but they may or may not be ready). We shouldn't need the Stones money to start our own spending spree, not if everything we've heard about Moshiri's wealth and willingness to use it are true.

Signings please!!

Ed Fitzgerald
32 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:18:15
Take the money; it's good business and makes sense as he doesn't want to play for us.
Colin Williams
33 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:18:57
"Endless schoolboy errors" – stupid comment! The lad is class! Look at the stats... People are blind to Jags errors, (fuck knows why!) nearly every game this guy makes basic fuck-ups.

Stonsey's made some feck-ups, expected playing at that position at such a young age (22 years old) but Jags is shocking – an absolute liability!

I've said countless times, we will always struggle with him involved and we always have! Stop blowing smoke up his arse... the guy is fucking past it.

We will miss Stonsey, the guy is top draw!! We will regret selling the lad at any price.


Eddie Dunn
34 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:24:54
This is very good news. The sort of money mentioned is too good to ignore. Rodwell never realised his potential, and there is every chance that Stones could go down the same route.

I wish the lad well – he owes us nothing.
Joe O'Brien
35 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:28:53
Don't get why people on here are thinking that Man City are mad to spend £50mil on him. He's got massive potential and I truly believe he'll be the best CB in the world in the future. Martinez made every player look bad last season, look at Barkley last season compared to his two games in pre-season? A completely different player.

Gutted that he looks like he's going; I hoped that he'd be our future captain and for years to come. We better insert a big sell-on clause because, in 5 years time, he'll be worth a lot more than £50mil!
Paul Needham
36 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:34:08
Good luck to him. Always thought he would be better playing the Busquets Barcelona role. More in front of back 4 or a Toure role. Not totally convinced about him as a central defender, but I am very old school were I believe a defender's job is to defend. Body on the line and all that.

I am sure Guardiola has a rough idea what he wants.

Let's spend the money wisely. COYB
Andrew Presly
37 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:38:27
I can't believe most on here appear happy with this.

TV revenues are at an all time never before seen or dreamt of high and we have a billionaire "shareholder". Just one of those things alone ought to guarantee we don't sell our best players, nevermind both.

And yet in vintage Everton style we've spent zip with less than 3 weeks to go yet are happy to sell a player who will become an international star to a major rival?

£50m will look like a steal in a few years. Small time Everton. Some things never change. Depressing.

We're bigger than Man City, they're just richer. Tell them to fuck off &/or bid for Aguero.

Steve Jenkins
38 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:38:43
Joe 35

Agree with all you say there, I'm gutted too and would love for us refuse to sell him for at least one year.

Have Mosdhri and Koeman tell him if he wants to go in a year he can - but we need you this season, it then gives us a season to see how the club develops on and off the pitch.

However, when a player wants to go sometimes its better to move them on if their mind is made up and they'll only drag the place down.

A sell on-clause – even 5% is a great idea!

Martin Mason
39 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:39:11
City are paying £50 million not because of how he plays for Everton but how Guardiola sees him fitting into a policy of playing out from the back. In this respect Stones will almost certainly be worth the money to City too so a real win-win situation.

OK so now we have lots of money, what can we do with it under current market conditions? I'd rely on our youngsters for a while and go for gold on the new stadium. Players are a lousy investment and we now have the opportunity to invest in a new modern ground.

Robert Leigh
40 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:40:02
£50mil is great business. Get two CBs in for £5-10mil each, minimum £30mil leftover for new men.

Personally, I like the look of Jason Denayer (City) who won't get a look in, maybe a loan then buy option (can't be more than £10mil considering he hasn't played for City) and maybe a player happy to sit as 4th choice CB and cover RB – Micah Richards (£5mil?)
Brian Williams
41 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:40:31
Potential's all well and good but the number of young players who don't reach their full potential is endless. As others have pointed out, we need a "proper" defender NOW, not in a couple of years.

I'm all for developing players and, under different circumstances, I'd have loved to see Stones at Everton for many a year, but if someone wants to throw silly money at us, WE'D be silly not to take it (on the proviso it's well spent on a top replacement).

Sam Hoare
42 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:40:44
The money may be good but it's certainly nothing to celebrate until we get a replacement in who is as good if not better and that won't be easy to do.

Would have been chuffed with Koulibaly but that looks unlikely now. Hopefully Walsh & Koeman have got someone solid lined up.

Chris Gould
43 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:41:31
This will happen. Sad, but we move on.
Ciarán McGlone
44 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:45:23
I honestly think he'll be a defensive midfielder in the long term... too infuriating and mistake-prone to have at centre back.

Good business.

Colin Glassar
45 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:48:38
Totally agree, Andrew. Too many of us have a pauper's mentality, offer us a carrot and we will bite your hand off.

In the case of John Stones, it's obvious he wants to go so we have to get the best deal possible but I will be gutted seeing him in a Man City shirt strutting his stuff. The kid is a classy player, hasn't caused any trouble, is a model pro, popular with his team mates so, for me at least, I wish him all the best.

Andy Crooks
46 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:50:50
I think this is disappointing. Arguably the best coach in the world wants one of our players. It seems to me that we should show the same vision. If he is determined to go nothing can be done but I don't think it is something to celebrate. Keeping him would, in my view, indicate that we are back and are big.
Bill Griffiths
47 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:53:12
Though I'd like to hang on to him, £50m is a lot to turn down as things currently stand. Thought he might have stayed another season or two to learn from the best.
Ray Robinson
48 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:53:58
Rarely has a player divided opinion as much as Stones. I believe that he is the best footballing centre half that I have seen in 55 years of watching the Blues but nowhere near Labone, Watson, Gough and even Jagielka as a defender.

I'm not sure what he's worth in today's inflated market but right now I'd rather have a more solid, consistent centre back, so I'd say that pragmatism should override potential. His desire to play elsewhere merely confirms the reason to get rid of him – with appropriate sell-on clauses, of course.

If I was a betting man, I'd say that he'll go the way of Rodwell and Jeffers as an expensive bench-warmer, as he has too many limitations. Mark #31, I believe that reading the game is actually one of his weaknesses.

Ian McDowell
49 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:54:52
He will be a huge success at City. Firstly Pep will get them super fit for the pressing game he will introduce. He won't be anywhere near as exposed as he was last season. He will also have intelligent, creative players ahead of him giving plenty of passing options. Finally they will be well drilled, something we haven't been for 2 years.
Colin Glassar
50 Posted 27/07/2016 at 18:59:38
Ray R, you say he's "the best footballing centre half I have seen in 55 years" then finish with "he has too many limitations". That's a bit contradictory. So what do you really think about him?
Jim Burns
51 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:02:43
The more I think about this the more angry I get at Martinez' s inept management. He spoilt one of the potentially finest assets we have had on our books for years. I agree completely with the above relatively few on here who see this as a massive loss. This lad – under the right management – will be one of the best centre halves this country has ever produced, and a potential future England captain.

He has been completely derailed and confused by RM – and his need to start afresh is clear to understand. His poor decision making and plunging confidence last season is one of the worst examples of mismanagement I've seen in the 35 years I've been watching Everton.

Koeman was unfortunately one season too late to save him – the poison of disillusionment had already done its work.

Watch this lad blossom, in time, under a proper Manager – as he would surely have done under Koeman, and as a parallel, watch Ross now regain momentum under this new regime.

Very sad to see John go – I had contacts at Barnsley before he came to us, and his quality and potential has been seen way back.

But I'm very bitter at the damage done by Martinez and his ineptitude. Onwards and upwards.

Good luck, John.

Tom Bowers
52 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:03:32
Let's get the deal done. We don't want him starting the season again thinking of what might have been. The lad is definitely full of class but not perfect for a centre back.

Hopefully Koulibaly is the replacement with the money in hand.

Amit Vithlani
53 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:04:53
To paraphrase Johan Cruyff, I have never seen a bag of cash pull off a last ditch tackle or bring the ball out from the back.

Saddened by this. Don't understand why people are getting excited by the fee. You can't put £50m in the starting line-up.

If he leaves, I will only be cheered up when a good replacement is pictured holding the scarf aloft.

Colin Dixon
54 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:09:30
Hmmm... we've all played football. Some players look garbage with a ball at their feet but play great! (That was me).

John Stones is one of those players who looks the "model footballer" with the ball at his feet but most of the time is average. Can't defend! With the help of the Media brainwashing, everyone apart from us think he is fantastic..

Don't tell me he's English. What the hell have England done for 52 years?! English defenders are renowned for Jagielka syndrome - smash the ball down the field (bottle it). Although Jagielka is a good defender.

The minute someone passes out of defence he's worth 50 big ones. UNBELIEVABLE!
Jim Burns
55 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:12:22
Amit – agree with the sentiment, but I'll only cheer up when we are around half way through the season and I'm sure whoever we've replaced him with is actually doing the job on the field and has clearly been worth the money.

Holding a scarf aloft is something either I or Niasse could do – and I've got arthritis.

I do understand where you're coming from though – saddened also.

Eric Paul
56 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:13:14
Andrew Presley @37, What part of he doesn't want to play for us don't you understand? Do we keep refusing to sell until he can go for nothing? He may have potential but he's got no bottle.

Remember the redshite away he made a mistake and walked off crying when we were down to 10 men. He will never be a Corinthian.
Phil Greenough
57 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:13:27
First post guys, thanks for the informed, rational and informative reading.

My opinion for what it's worth, is that Everton should sell any player who does not want to play for them, regardless how good they are or could become.

If John Stones is not sold now and shows professionalism by playing and possibly gets better next season, what chance does Everton have of keeping hold of him then?

Just a sad indictment on football that money is God, although Everton has got great financial backing now, it does not preclude clubs like City and United coming in and taking the best players from the club.

Les Martin
58 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:15:36
If the BBC report then its usually nailed on, and if a player wants to go, let him go.

We move on, take the money knowing that our Manager knows a thing or two about defending and who to bring in...

It will be an interesting transfer window, maybe Rom is next?

Jim Burns
59 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:16:49
A bit simplistic, Colin.
Tony Smith
60 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:18:38
If last season is the barometer to judge whether it is good sense to sell Stones, then no brainer.

I can't remember any game when I felt he positively influenced the outcome, but remember loads of games when he directly contributed to losing the points. Bottling it in the Derby and asking to come off was cowardly and not something I ever want to witness again. I think in the away leg at Man City he actually looked like he was deliberately trying to cost us the game, he also put in a transfer request so time to say bye and buy someone who can defend.

Mike Green
61 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:18:52
Martin Mason #39 – really good post but you spoil it by saying "Players are a lousy investment". We invested £3m and are going to get c.18 times back – sounds like a great investment! However, I like your point in general.

As for hanging onto him for another year, if he wants to go let him go now. I think he's put a brave face on it since his transfer request was denied last time to be honest, I don't think his hearts really with us anymore. I've got no problem with that, its a free world and its not like he's been gobbing off like Rom.

I don't want to spend a year improving a player for another club to benefit either, anymore than I want a player going down the tubes because he's demotivated. So – £50m is grand money for a player over which we've had some recurring question marks over and moves the risk from us to City. Invest it in a couple of sure things at the back who can boss a defence for the next few years and move on, the time is right.

Colin Dixon
62 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:19:08
Jim 55, I agree with your comments.
Amit Vithlani
64 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:21:51
Jim - 55. I did say "Good Replacement". An unknown Senegalese or arthritic supporter would, under the trade descriptions act, likely fail this qualification.
Henrik Lyngsie
66 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:24:48
I think he will be a massive success in City and we will regret selling him. He had a poor season last year but not even Beckenbauer would have shone in our defensive set up (or lack of) in 2015-16.
50 million three years ago would have been massive. Consider in today's market Kroldrup would be a 20 million player the way he played in Italy. My fear is that we end up paying 30 million for someone who is no better than Jags and Funes Mori.
So I will be sad see Stones leaving. I think he will become a superstar but he needs to play in a top team. I would rather have seen him makin Everton a top team under Koemans guidance.
Tony Abrahams
67 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:24:50
Agree with Jim51, but Ray48, has really got me thinking, with his last sentence about Stones, not being very good at reading the game.

I always thought he could have headed away, the long through ball against Spurs, that let in Ali, to score. It was if he thought, it's over me, so Tim, should come and catch this, which maybe a more dominant keeper might have done.

Don't want to lose Stones, and will wish the kid well if he does leave. Remember it's only a lot of Money if we spend it wisely.

Colin Dixon
68 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:27:46
Jim 63
Regular Simplistic viewer of ToffeeWeb but tonight having a chat with San Miguel and Just compelled to voice an opinion as I am sick to the teeth of players like Stones who don't want to play for Everton...............!
££££££££££££ssss


Ray Robinson
70 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:30:11
Colin #50. Not really a contradiction but probably didn't come across clearly. I think that he is excellent with the ball at his feet, brings the ball out of defence well and generally distributes the ball well but he is not a great defender (particularly in the air), tends to ball watch and does not always read what's going on about him. If he can eradicate the lack of concentration, awareness, cut out the silly mistakes and learn to compete better in the air (bulk out a bit, improve the timing of his leap), he will become a sensational defender. It's not certain that he will achieve all this and therefore I believe he may not achieve his full potential.
Barry McNally
71 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:31:59
Instead of paying 10% over the odds it will be 20% for a centre half as we will be desperate unless RK has something up his sleeve. I'd prefer if he stayed but if he wants to go, let him. Would also tell City it's £55m and to wrap it up by Thursday or we'll walk away from the deal.
Mike Green
72 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:32:22
Just to say - as polarised opinion is on this Jim Burns excellent post (#51) says it well on one side of the divide as does Colins (#54) for the other (though I think the point about him being English is about quota's Colin...?)

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle - when he's on song striding up the pitch it's an absolute joy to watch, when he's sat on his backside after taking a slip trying to do something a bit fancy, not so much. I think he'll gravitate more to being the player we've all seen he can be in the end, he's just got some catching up to do having gone backwards over the last 18 months.

James Morgan
73 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:32:50
If the lad wants to go then good luck to him. He can play CL and challenge for trophies straight away and play under a highly successful manager.
After the sell on fee minused, we should have circa £140m to spend!
That could get us five £28m pound players, and our last one hasn't done too bad.
Jim Burns
74 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:34:53
Agreed Amit - but sadly holding the scarf aloft as a measure of how good a player is ,or rather has been ,for a previous club, has too often been the only measure by which some observers have judged quality.

Again sadly, as a club we have been as guilty as anyone at getting excited too quickly over reputation and hope ,rather than proven and consistent ability on the field in a blue shirt - and for more than the first few games.

Anyway - Unknown Senagalese supporters wouldn' t fall into this category - arthritic or not.

Frank Crewe
75 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:35:22
@Jim51
"The more I think about this the more angry I get at Martinez' s inept management. "
Hey. He could have sold him last year for ten million less.

To all those who appear to think that bringing the ball out of defense is so important may I remind you that Leicester City had Huth and Morgan. Hardly the most gifted defenders skill wise yet they only conceded 36 goals. Yet us with Jags, Stones, and Runes Mori managed to concede 55. And they scored more than our guys did as well. I know which defenders I would have preferred.

All I want is CB's who can head a ball, score the odd goal, and kick the ball into road Z if they need to. I'll leave it to the midfield players to start the attacks. That's what they are there for.

Eric Paul
76 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:36:17
Henrik@66, Funes Mori and Jags played in the same side with the same system and although they made mistakes nowhere near the amount of point-losing mistakes as Stones

Superstars never ask to come off crying in a derby.
Colin Glassar
77 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:39:20
Understood Ray.
Bertie Alloff
78 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:41:18
Couldn't give a monkeys already thinking who we can replace him with. 50 million? Yes please. Too error prone and wouldn't be at all surprised if he gets found out and put in midfield instead. Where he will be decent and nothing more.
Trevor Lynes
79 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:44:01
I do not want to see us selling ANY player without having someone bought first. I am sick of seeing us selling before replacing.

If we are buying Koulibaly then get him in before letting Stones leave.

We sell and loan out too quickly!

Colin Dixon
80 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:44:43
Ray 70
Mike 72
Agree..
The media destroy English players from a young age..
Add to this the trappings of £££s and they elevate themselves to the extent whereby anything which goes wrong on the day is not their fault...
(Facial expressions / arm throwing / unnecessary fouls)
Stones falls into this category.
(Crowd retaliation last season for messing around with the ball).
Don't talk about Lukaku or I will lose it...!!!!'
Add to this San Miguel has not spoke an F.......work all night!
James McPherson
81 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:45:20
Several people saying great news, this will kick off our transfer activity.

Kind of puts into sharp focus the growing concern registered by a similar number of people who are beginning to detect that not much is changing at the top of Everton. We are still selling to spend. We are still saying goodbye to our best players as they have to go to a bigger club. Inbound transfers if indeed they are happening are a complete dogs dinner...if they are not happening we still have the club acting in a way that allows rumours to propagate, as it adds to the rather flimsy veneer that we are actively in the market. Dark arts of our PR are still here.

Optimism waning by the day.

One thinks of the line from that great film Shawshank Redemption " it's the hope that kills you"

Andrew Keatley
82 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:50:23
I'm firmly in the pro-Stones camp. He was horribly exposed - like all of our team last year - by a manager and coaching set-up that was in total denial about the effort, fitness and organisation required to compete in the Premier League. This year should (hopefully) see wholesale improvement throughout the squad, although I fear Stones will make those improvements for Man City; he's a brilliant footballer.

The comments Guardiola made - which can be read on the BBC website - explain why Stones is so sought after; he can take pressure off the midfielders and attackers by bringing the ball out of defence and finding them in pockets of space in the opposition half. Most top-level central defenders can head the ball, track runners, tackle, jockey, intercept passes etc - but Stones is in a minority when it comes to what he can offer in possession of the ball. And for a team like Man City - or a Real Madrid, Barcelona etc - who expect to have more possession, and want their creative players to have time on the ball in advanced areas, John Stones is easily worth the money.

I'm not of the opinion that we should sell anyone who wants to move on. The loyalty question is a strange one in modern-day football; if a so-called bigger club were making consistent overtures for any of our players (especially in the last 12 months when we've been poor) then I'd expect many of them would want to leave. For us fans the idea of playing for Everton is the ultimate footballing dream; unfortunately for our squad it is the here and now, and not necessarily their ultimate destination. I hope Koeman can convince Stones to stay for one more year, and want to be here, but if not then I hope he spends the money wisely.

Colin Dixon
83 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:53:05
Personally I prefer our club to be run stringently irrespective of whether we are "loaded" as this is good management and builds a great foundation for the future..
I'm looking forward to a new stadium. The team will take time to build and get back to where it belongs...
Ray Robinson
84 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:53:25
James #81 - I don't think that we are selling because we have to, merely because we are resigned to losing a player who has stated that he wants to leave. There is a difference. However, we are going to find it hard to attract / retain players because we're not at a level that competes for trophies or qualifies for Europe. Liverpool are a bigger brand than us but they couldn't keep Suarez. So, in that sense, your sense of foreboding is quite reasonable. We're not yet at that level where we're considered to be attractive to the top players and we won't get there in one fell swoop either.
Matt Garen
85 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:53:34
“I believe when the ball goes from a central defender to a striker, the ball comes back as quickly as it goes, and we have to make it clear that we are building up in our first process, whether that is defenders or midfielders, and that is why we need players of quality, to play in that style, and we have the players to do that. And I think by [the close of the transfer window on] August 31, we will have the right players to play the way we want.” Direct quote from Guardiola. That's why he wants Stones and will pay what it takes to get him. I've actually thought for 18 months he will play in a defensive midfielder role as well as centre half. He's used Mascherano, Alonso, Martinez in both positions and Stones will too.
Jim Burns
86 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:54:26
Frank @ 75. Not sure I understand your comment re could have sold him for 10 million less?

I've looked carefully at my post again and , as I thought, I for one, have never suggested that carrying the ball out of the defence comfortably was the 'be all and end all '- although having a natural ability/confidence to do it , but more importantly being coached well in understanding when to do it, and when not, is a wonderful asset to any team aspiring to be a cut above the norm.

I happen to think young Stonesy has what it takes in most areas of the defender's ( including defensive midfielder's ) game. He just needed a manager/ coaching regime to understand that - as they are paid top dollar to do.

I've heard on the grapevine that Pep Guardiola may know a bit about football and managing great talent. I've even heard he's half good at spotting potential when he sees it.However, I'm not sure I believe the rumour that he has a track record of building top European sides with enviable trophy success rates playing great football - time will tell.

I, for one would happily bow to his judgement, and stand by my belief that we have lost a great talent.

Time will tell.

Ciarán McGlone
87 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:55:13
Is there any actual evidence that we have 100 mill to spend before player sales?

I'd bet a shiny new pound that we spend less than we bring in.

Am I being negative? Hard not to be.

James McPherson
88 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:55:43
Selling best assets is not building Colin (83). Indeed, it sends all the wrong messages. Impacts good players that remain, impacts potential new players
Jim Burns
89 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:57:32
Matt - @ 85 - spot on. That's what I was driving at @ 86, but you expressed it far better than me.
Raymond Fox
90 Posted 27/07/2016 at 19:59:30
I know which I would prefer Stones or £50m, and it aint Stones.
I wouldn't like to think we were starting the season with him in our defense, would you!

As far as signings are concered, I think we are going to have to be patient once more.
Yes I'm fed up with being patient too, but I think we have to give Koeman time to 'get his feet under the table' so to speak.

Matt Garen
91 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:00:12
The situation we are left in is the top level players will move first and then it's how you recruit to improve. Looking at who Koeman brought in at Saints even before the much heralded Walsh arrived to help; Pelle, Tadic, Alderweireld, Austin, Long, Soares, Forster does not cause any cause for concern because any of those would improve on where we were last season.
James McPherson
92 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:01:22
Fair shout Ray (84). I was principally commenting on the realisation that things are not changing as we envisaged - when you take away the gloss of the announcement and look at things with a more forensic eye - not much is changing at the top. That in many ways is more of a concern than losing a terrific footballing centre half, (who does have his flaws btw)
Colin Glassar
93 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:01:48
Bertie 78, did you play in the West German side in the 1976 euro final against Czechoslovakia by any chance?
Frank Crewe
94 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:02:11
How many times have I seen complaints about buying older players because they have no resale value. Yet Stones is an example of buying low and selling high and what happens? People start moaning.

We had an extra season out of him last season and all he did was make mistakes that cost us points and get the crowds back up.

He's not that good. He'll do the same as all the English wannabe's that went to city have done. Fold under the pressure. We are not expected to win anything but they are. He's another Sterling, Rodwell, Richards, etc, waiting to happen. If he starts making the same rickets for them as he did for us he'll be dropped and replaced because they have the money and the manager to do it.

Colin Dixon
97 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:11:57
James 88, I would suggest selling a media-hyped commodity will get you building better.

By the way I believe Stones would make a great midfielder. I don't dispute Stones being a good footballer with an arrogance to suit and he does bring the ball out of defence.

Does it send out the wrong messages - really? Whoever shows their wallet these days wins the game unless your bidding against London that is. However, I choose to disagree with it sending out the wrong message. If he worked for me I would ask her him to go forth and multiply! After all if you believe the hype your using your smartphone too much.
Andrew Keatley
98 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:14:21
Be interesting to see how highly the defenders in the youth set-up are rated by Koeman and Walsh. Brendan Galloway, Mason Holgate and Matty Foulds were all scouted and acquired - same as Stones - with a smattering of fanfare. Matthew Pennington has first-team experience now, and should be knocking on the door for more. Not sure if he has recovered from injury yet but same goes for Tyias Browning when he is back.
George Cumiskey
102 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:23:36
He's asked to leave twice now. We can't put him in a headlock and force him to stay! Let's just take the profit we are going to make and move on quickly get someone else in!
Mick Davies
103 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:29:40
I don't know why some on here are saying we'll miss him: he hasn't done anything to convince me that he's worth anywhere near £50m. You can say all you want about Martinez, but can anyone explain all the goals (and penalties) we conceded due to his 'youth'?

A defender usually - by the age of 21 - knows how to head a ball' that is one of the main features of their game. Tim Cahill was 4.5 inches shorter, but out jumped/bullied much bigger defenders. His skill with the ball is obvious, but so are his faults without it, and I for one would be happy to replace him with a Distin style, no nonsense CH as a foil to the silky Funes Mori.

Jags, RFM and Stones are too alike for me, with Stones being the weaker of the three, plus, he doesn't like us because we had the audacity to question his pissing about in his own area. How dare we?
Darren Hind
104 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:31:29
Some people don't deserve to watch players like John Stones. They don't get him and when he goes on to achieve world super stardom they still won't get him.

Jose has paid a fortune for a central defender who is Stones's age and the first thing he said was "he was miles from the finished article". Why? Because he knows and understands the game, yet people constantly attack a unique talent because, like Jagielka, Funes Mori, Baines and Coleman he didn't have a fucking Scooby what Martinez was talking about. Martinez stifled Stones.

Colin Dixon
105 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:32:19
Mick 103
Exactly!
Paul Holmes
107 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:45:26
You cant blame Martinez for Stones not being able to defend crosses! How many goals did we concede from crosses into the box?

The goalkeeper, Jagielka and Funes Mori can't head a ball out either, we need a goalkeeper (we might have one) and two no-nonsense centre halves who can defend first, play football second.

I watched Italy in the Euros and their centre-halves are the blueprint for any team: Defend! Defend!! Defend!!!

Helen Mallon
108 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:55:55
Pep will turn him into the best defensive midfielder in the world. He is a cracking player just not a centre half. But stick him in the middle of midfield and watch him go just wish he would have stayed and played that position for us.
Alasdair Mackay
109 Posted 27/07/2016 at 20:59:01
Who was the last young, English player to move to City and get better? It wasn't Sterling, or Rodwell – that's for sure. Not Lescott. Milner has been good everywhere BUT City.

As for centre-backs, they have signed at least 3 now that have sucked, considering what was paid.

If I was Stones, I wouldn't want to go.

But his agent needs a new car, so ...

Matt Garen
110 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:00:30
Mick @103 – Not with anything other than opinion and a few years playing and managing a quarter decent level!

For me, the majority of goals and penalties came from two significant flaws from Martinez.

One was the insistence of the defenders keeping almost at any cost the ball but without a decent midfield option, or at least an option of turning and playing it forward without knowing it's probably coming back and you will be out of position because of where you have had the ball.

Secondly, the set-up being that having the two deep midfielders will get you out of trouble with full backs beyond the opposition when you lose the ball. McCarthy hasn't got the positional sense and Barry could only last 55 mins before getting booked and legs going.

I'm not for a moment absolving Stones of any blame but many times it was too long dithering until it was 3 on 3. It took a season to figure it out but once they did the opposition were on easy street and Stones usually took the flak.

Paul Tran
111 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:01:04
I'd like him to stay. I think he'll be some player under the right guidance.

If he really wants to go, he's going to go. We need at least one replacement for him. Best of luck, John.

Alastair Donaldson
112 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:02:16
Can't argue with the economics at play here and he has clearly been looking afield before now.

If he'd been through the academy, ala Rooney, this would feel a lot worse, but like a few others have said it would have been good for us to have seen him in a more defensively sound unit (which we will be) and then check his defensive qualities.

On the ball it's hard to recall anyone (English) so capable/willing to go forward from deep. Maybe he will eventually find his position is in deep midfield.

But as Ian Faith (Spinal Tap band manager) would say "money talks bullshit walks".

Good luck to him if he walks and good luck to us in finding decent replacement(s).

Steve Jenkins
113 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:07:30
Stones could easily play in the DM role and is more than talented enough to do so. He's got the attributes to be a World Class CB/DM just needs the coaching.

I'd love to keep him - but £50M or £42 as others have pointed out - is good bank, if he has to go.

If he's going then he's going, I'm now more concerned about who we are going to replace him with.

I've been very impressed with Holgate - very talented and very, very similar to Stones but also very raw.

Likely to go out on loan and play games covering RB for a season or two.

Galloway - again very composed and talented, but very much still a work in progress.

Pennington - I personally don't see having a long-term future with the club and see him at Championship level (jmo).

Singings - one name that we definitely doesn't seem out of reach unlike Koubilly is Van Dirk.

Van Dirk is very similar in attributes - and a player I'd love to have replace Stones, if/when he's gone.

I doubt Van Dirk would cost even half of what Stones goes for, even if we end up paying a lot more than market value.

If we can't find another quality replacement elsewhere, Koeman may just have to risk upsetting Southampton to go and get him.

Who knows what other gems Walsh or Koeman may have up their sleeve.

Steve Jenkins
114 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:09:36
Koulibaly - damn text changing...

Keeps changing Koeman to Foeman as well

Mick Davies
115 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:11:55
Matt @ 110, I won't argue with your comments, but I must ask you: have you ever seen him win a header, from a corner or incoming cross? That is something we can't blame on RM. I agree with Helen, that he looks like he could be a top defensive midfielder, but never a commanding centre back
Tony Hill
116 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:19:17
He will be a serious loss to us but I fear it may also be the wrong decision for the player. He does have deficiencies, of course, but Koeman would have ironed them out and developed him beautifully.

I'm not sure that City will offer the same but I hope he does go on to fulfil himself because he's a sight to see when in full flow.

More importantly, I think we'll get more than £50m and I trust Koeman and Walsh to use it wisely. Also, let's not overlook young Holgate who I think is another major prospect. I hear good things about Foulds as well, so there's reason to be cheerful.

Bertie Alloff
117 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:23:40
Colin @ 93. No that's not me, and I'm not related to Klaus :)
Craig Walker
118 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:24:52
A good time to cash in. He won't be Allerdyce's idea of a player on the international stage and City won't tolerate the mistakes. Another player who thinks he is too good for our club like Rodwell, Gosling, Barmby etc. He doesn't get tight enough for me. The semi final at City was the last straw when I wanted rid. Got sick of having my heart in my mouth at set pieces. Let's get some defenders who can defend first and foremost and want to wear the shirt. COYB.
Chris Corn
119 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:29:30
I keep seeing that I should be grateful to watch the likes of Stones and Lukaku but the bottom line is that at the business end of last season when we had a chance to attain silverware, both our star players went missing. Stones was gash in the second leg at the Etihad and he was at fault for both goals at Wembley. His positioning for the winner was criminal when he stepped out the line in injury time. Lukakus performance at Wembley is well documented and his ten game barren run to the end of the season is the longest of his career.

So when I see prices of £50m+ bandied around, don't expect me to shed any tears because I've no interest in seeing these players make their mistakes on our watch and cost us trophies, which is what happened last season and then get told I am small minded because they might one day be world beaters.

Keith Meakin
120 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:34:23
Potentially John Stones is a future England Captain, I do think this lad is going to be a great defensive midfielder. 50 million at this point in his career is good money (potential not achieved yet). I also think RK has a replacement already in the pipeline or Stones wouldn't be allowed to leave.
Brian Wilkinson
121 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:36:58
I would have said £42 million and Bonny, City are desperate to land Stones and sure they would have agreed, once we get £50 million for Stones, theres no way we would get Bonny for £8 million.
Brian Williams
122 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:37:52
Something that just occurred to me and that's the question of whether Stones is up to withstanding the pressure he'll be under at City.
It's been well documented about him bursting into tears and having to be lead away by teamates at a motorway services. I believe he wasn't being abused either (as some have suggested) but more feeling the pressure from Evertonians wanting to know if he was staying.
His "cool it" gesture to the Park End may also suggest a difficulty in remaining focused and professionally "aloof".
Then again I may just be trying to convince myself that him going is good for us......only time will tell because nobody knows for sure.
Brin Williams
123 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:38:00
KR 18 - He certainly is an Everton Legend - when have we ever had £50M for a defender (that can't defend) - certainly a legend in my book and one that will be talked about for a long time - "Do you remember when we mugged shitte for £50 million smackers - and the fella couldn't defend- mind you he had class!! - err what was his name that legend chap from Yorkshire somewhere'?
Matt Garen
124 Posted 27/07/2016 at 21:42:19
Mick @115 He does win one occasionally but agree he doesn't win anywhere near enough for a centre half, that might be because he's knackered from trying to get back in position! but as I said in my post @85 along with others for me he is a midfielder all day and night long.
Martin Mason
125 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:01:48
I don't think it's fair to criticise a lad for wanting to play for a side that is in European competition with a new, competent and progressive coach who'll get the best out of him. If we get a premium price for him then it's good business for the club. It's terrible though as a club with aspirations to lose an England International with the potential to be the best defender seen in the UK since Rio Ferdinand at his best.

To be fair though we are blessed with a lot of very good central defenders.

David Chait
126 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:07:22
He will be worth every cent to them. Brilliant talent that IS an excellent defender! Hope it's quick so we can spend the money and settle down on the side!

I for one will miss him and it will eat me to see him flying in another clubs colours!

Anthony Dwyer
127 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:16:12
We shouldn't accept less than a world record fee for a defender, £51m minimum I'd demand.

Stones is young English and talented, we can demand anything we like.

City are loaded and desperate for Stones, if they paid £50m for Sterling then they will pay us the extra for Stones.

We are in the driving seat, Stones wont go rouge, he has 3 years left on his deal, and if city want a player enough to pay £46m then they will pay us the difference.

Forget a compromise, just do what Levy does at Spurs, stick to your guns.

After all is said and done, I'd happily keep Stones, but if we are to lose him then this huge fee will make it less painful to accept.

Jay Harris
128 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:24:31
Well the odds on skybet are interesting.

Witsel and Robbie Brady heavy odds on to join us and Stones odds on to go to City.

No mention of Koulibaly.

Colin Maughn
129 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:34:11
What other options do we have out there to chose from to replace Stones?
Brent Stephens
130 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:36:09
Jay, are those odds there to attract "last-minute" punters who think they might make at least a few easy bob before betting closes and the deal is done? Or doesn't close, as the odds move out again, only to move in for somebody else linked to us. And then somebody else ad infinitum. And at every turn it's dosh for the bookies.
Ray Robinson
132 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:51:16
Why do lots of people see John Stones as a defensive midfielder? I really don't see it. Being confident on the ball in tight situations, as he undoubtedly is, does not necessarily make him suitable for a midfielder who has to be on the go all the time and cover much wider distances. It's only my opinion but he doesn't have the physique play in midfield. To me he's a (flawed) centre back who may or may not improve - only time will tell.
Peter Cummings
133 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:53:03
At the moment this is just another rumour which has been the case for months although Stones has indicated he wants out, all the points on his abilities, and faults, have been fully dealt with by the posts on the site which have shown the widespread intelligence and knowledge of the game by the comments of our fans,

As far as Everton is concerned Stones is still under a long contract so if the board has stipulated a 50 plus mil deal they are in the driving seat for that amount, or Stones sees out his contract obligations to us, so it's fifty big ones or no deal,
Jay Harris
134 Posted 27/07/2016 at 22:57:33
Thats fine Peter but why keep an unhappy player who has made it clear he doesnt want to be here.

IMO it will only cause unrest in the dressing room.

I would tell Stones and City that they have 7 days to complete the deal at our asking price which will give us the opportunity to get someone in.

Paul Conway
135 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:01:41
It's come to the stage now where I personally couldn't care less if we sold Stones or Lukaku. I have 100% faith in the gaffer.

Before the Koeman era I would be bricking it if any of our top players were coveted by other clubs, as in the past with Arteta, Lescott, Ronney, etc. This past season, I got very disillusioned with Stones and his antics, which where very unprofessional.

You can argue that Martinez was a bad coach and I would agree, but it wasn't Martinez who told him to do Cruyff turns or to make dodgy backpasses back to Howard. He was eventually reduced to bench warming duties and IMO deserved it.

At the time we were all anti Martinez, we disagreed. But today, if it was Koeman we would rightly agree. The majority I suppose.
Liam Reilly
136 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:09:51
What's laughable is the £50 million for a "footballing centre half".

Well if your paid as well as these guys for your craft, then you bloody well should be comfortable with the ball.

Ridiculous statement in the current game and I can't see Koeman accepting anything less.

Colin Glassar
137 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:32:01
Spot on, Anthony, I agree with every word.
Paul Mackie
138 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:32:33
He's crazy if he'd rather learn from Pep than from one of the finest defenders in living memory.
Nick Armitage
139 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:35:58
£50m for a defender who can't time a jump and has the defensive awareness of a schoolboy is utter madness. Granted he can move the ball quickly into midfield, but he's not a natural defender.
Denis Richardson
140 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:36:54
Sell the potential for silly money and buy the real thing.

He may or may not work out for city but he 100% won't work out for Everton, plus he desperately wants to leave anyway.

He was crap last season, let Man City have the problem of putting some bottle into him. The derby certainly showed he's made of glass. I certainly don't want him in our starting 11 come August.

People are very quick to ignore/forget the fact the guy wants to leave us. Fuck him, don't want anyone who doesn't want to stay with us.

Laurie Hartley
141 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:42:47
Jim Burns (#51) – one of the best posts I have ever seen on ToffeeWeb.
Mike Green
142 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:45:25
Another take on it is I don't think Koeman sees himself here for more than 3 years, he and Moshiri I expect want results, which £50m has got a better chance of getting you quicker than potential has. They want jam today, not tomorrow.
Nick Armitage
143 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:52:16
And why do people think he can play in midfield? Simply doesn't have the energy, awareness or pace.
James Watts
144 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:58:23
Well with £40 odd mil in the bank from this one, we are braced for an exciting deadline day with money to burn.
James Flynn
145 Posted 27/07/2016 at 23:59:36
Mike (85) - Managers say lots of things. Pep just another.

Let's see how he does coming from the 3-horse league he made his name in and the 1-horse league he just left, into a 38-game slugfest he hasn't experienced before.

Douglas McClenaghan
146 Posted 27/07/2016 at 00:14:28
There's a question mark over his ability to handle pressure. Plenty of that to come.
Jon Withey
147 Posted 28/07/2016 at 00:16:13
Would be a good sale – he's not worth £50 mil to us and money is no object to them.

I thought he was shocking defensively last season – midfield, right back, centre back.

Seamus McCrudden
148 Posted 28/07/2016 at 00:21:53
Take the money and run. If in 10 years he turns out to be Lothar Matthaus, I'll eat Colin's glass balls.
Andrew Keatley
150 Posted 28/07/2016 at 00:54:51
Chris (119) - I think it's harsh saying Stones was directly at fault for both United goals in the FA Cup Semi-Final. My memory of that game was that his passing and dribbling from defence were the catalyst in turning the tide temporarily in our favour when we were 0-1 down.
Si Cooper
151 Posted 28/07/2016 at 01:04:26
I'll be sad to see him go because I think he could fairly easily become a great player. I'm also waiting for proof that Farhad Moshiri's wealth and Koeman's pedigree are sufficient to tempt top class players if they are also courted by the likes of Man City, Man Utd, Chelsea, Spurs and even the RS.

I agree that loyalty and the entrance fee give supporters the right to express themselves, but still feel the abuse Stones got at times was an over-reaction and detrimental to both the player and the team.

Lee Hind
152 Posted 28/07/2016 at 01:05:54
Admittedly I haven't read all the comments but Colin Williams (33) – bang on John Stones is (even accounting for last season) one of the best ball playing central defenders I've ever seen.

We will regret selling him – not that we shouldn't as he clearly wants to go and I don't think you can deny any player if their wish is to work under one of the best club managers in the business... but we will look at him in two or three seasons and think "did we only get £50m for him?"

John Daley
153 Posted 27/07/2016 at 01:15:09
If he's off then I feel it's not only a shame but also a big loss. Anyone can see he's a talented player of immense potential. Why would the likes of Mourinho and Guardiola be willing to offer the sums quoted otherwise? It's not because they're feeling particularly generous, have been watching games whilst pissed or have been dazzled by the hype. It's because they can't wait to get their hands on the boy (in a non slop badger way), help him become the player he's capable of becoming, and have a key position in the team filled for potentially the next decade.

Yes, he struggled for long periods last season, lost confidence and made a number of costly mistakes, but so did damn near everyone else in that side. With Stones though, the howls of derision became like the banjo duelling bridge boys from Deliverance trying to outdo each other, getting louder and louder and gathering ferocious pace with people seemingly desperate to knock him down a peg or two for his perceived 'cockiness'.

Since his first pre-season with the club he's been getting by on instinct and natural talent alone. Sure, that will take you so far but, especially with young players of limited experience, it isn't necessarily enough to negate a lack of clear instruction and guidance.

He never had a manager here concerned about ironing out the creases in his game or preaching defensive solidity. He was basically told to just carry on doing what he was doing and left to figure it out for himself.

He's never had a defensive partner capable of complimenting his style (a physically strong, aerially dominant centre-half being the obvious type to team with a more elegant, slightly built, ball playing sort) or an experienced, cool headed senior pro alongside him to organise, cajole and talk him through games. More often than not he was teaming up with Jagielka who, despite his last ditch tackling ability, willingness to dive in and status as club captain, is a mute panic merchant lacking in any leadership ability at all and a long way from being strong in the air himself.

It's little wonder Stones progress stalled and he found himself unsure how to best drag himself out of the first downturn in fortune he'd suffered in his short career thus far.

If he does end up with City then they'll have got themselves a damn fine young player, one who I'd expect to flourish, regain confidence and fine tune his game under the more assured guidance of Guardiola and an actual captain in Kompany.

Terence Leong
154 Posted 28/07/2016 at 01:15:17
We will regret selling Stones. But if he wants to leave and the club can't convince him to give another season, then we should hold out for £50 million at least.

Given the current market, if he at least performs better than last season, a player of his ilk will only continue to rise in value.

I agree that we will only regret how we let him go.

And if we are, we should only sell after buying our players.

When other clubs know that we have made so much off a player, every player they sell to us will be inflated by another 20% or more.

So, buy first before selling, if needed.

If not, I am happy that he stays because he can be help to really kickstart our rise back up.

John Pierce
155 Posted 28/07/2016 at 01:46:01
I judge by the volume and severity of the critiques on the thread, Stones is the player we think he is, otherwise why all the noise?

In a team where the average player is better than most. The best thing from the situation is to use the money well.


Bob Hannigan
156 Posted 28/07/2016 at 02:43:13
Here is my take on the John Stones transfer talk.

First of all I'm a relatively recent, since 1999, Evertonian from Boston, across the pond.

The comparison I present is Rooney "vs" Stones.

Rooney, an Evertonian since birth; Stones a recent (2013) transfer from Barnsley. At the time, in 2004, I was torn between selling or keeping Wayne. I came to the conclusion (with all due respect to my adopted side) Rooney's talents were being "wasted" remaining at Everton, I hated to admit. He was outstanding whilst with the England side amongst quality players and didn't quite reach that level with our Blues, realistically, again I hated to admit.

At the time, I felt in order to reach his potential, he had to move to Man Utd. I'm sure it was probably as difficult for Wayne as it was for his fellow Evertonians.

John Stones, on the other hand, transferred to Everton in 2013 for a better personal and professional opportunity with us. You really can't blame him.

Rooney has Blue blood, John Stones does not. Stones, understandably has his future in mind (again, you can't blame him) with no real ties to Everton.

Bottom line: if he doesn't want to be here, sell him and max out the compensation. He has potential but, by the same token, there are plenty of fish in the sea. We may miss him but he probably won't miss us.

Jim Johnson
157 Posted 28/07/2016 at 02:54:37
Looks like movement at the Toffee factory
. der dah ... der dah ... der dah ... der dah .

Apologies to Banjo Paterson: (Poem:- The Man From Snowy River .. 1890)

“There was movement at the Toffee Factory, for the word had passed around

That the colt from old Jags had got away,

And had joined the wild Big Clubs - he was worth a thousand pound,

So all the cracks had gathered to the fray.

All the tried and noted Players from the stations near and far

Had mustered at the Factory overnight,

For the Toffee-men love hard Playing where the wild bush horses are,

And the stockhorse snuffs the battle with delight.”

Keep the FAITH.

Darryl Ritchie
158 Posted 28/07/2016 at 04:14:26
Can't head the ball. Defensively naive. Great with the ball at his feet.

It's clear to me now. Stones is NOT a CB. He's a midfielder. He's been played out of position his entire career.

Alan Johnson
159 Posted 28/07/2016 at 04:22:50
All you would-be sellers need to think about this £50m fee. We get £42m after Barnsley take their cut. If Stones doesn't put a transfer request in, he'll probably get 5 or 10%. So we end up with £37m. £37m for player who could be playing for England for the next 10 years.

We also make Man City stronger and us weaker (Man Utd knocked us out of FA Cup semi-final with Rooney and Fellaini in their team).

A good enough replacement like Koulibaly will cost £38m and he is older, and will turn us down anyway. If he was better than Stones, then Man City would buy him instead.

If we really want to win trophies, we should want to keep our best players. I can't understand fans wanting to sell our best players at any price. He wants to go? Yes! And so does every EFC player given half a chance

As a business, I understand we must sell once a player refuses to sign a contract extension; but ONLY if he reaches the last 2 years of his contract. Up until that point, I wouldn't sell any top player as they are only increasing in value and giving you a better chance of winning football matches. Ferdinand cost £30m 15 years ago, transfer prices have more than trebled since then.

Stones's defending is excellent: blocks, interceptions, quick feet and he times a tackle well. He will get stronger in the air and under Koeman he would not be allowed to take stupid unnecessary risks with the ball.

I believe he's only as good as a decent Italian or Spanish defender on the ball but his defending is excellent. That's the real reason Mourinhio wanted him. And once he realizes this and has a strict manager, he could be another John Terry (who was very underrated technically).

So, whilst he's no Ferdinand, he's still definitely better than Luiz. Therefore, why not sell him next summer for £60m instead? When he has 2 years left.

He may even sign a new deal with us next when we finish above Man City!

Lukaku
Milik
Mata Deulofeu
Barkley Witsel
Baines Funes Mori Stones Coleman
Begovic

How can any Evertonian not want to see this team with Mirallas, Jagielka and Barry on the bench, playing big roles during the season?

Ask for this team rather than a poxy £50m that will dissolve into our bullshit £100m spend.

David Ellis
160 Posted 28/07/2016 at 05:19:20
John Stones

1. I would like to keep him...but we've already hung on to him for one extra season and its time to let him leave if he wants to.

2. He's not a midfielder yes he has some of the attributes, ie, close control and can pick a pass – but I see no evidence that he has the motor or positional sense or the skill in making killer passes at the edge of the box where the space is much tighter than in defence.

3. £50m is good value, even in the current market for a player that last season was not in our starting XI.

4. In theory we could get a couple of very good replacements with the money (which we need to do). But in practice that can be quite tricky to pull of as we are finding out.

5. If we are going to sell him... better sooner than later.

6. Hopefully we have the next John Stones in our superb group of young defenders.

Carl Sanderson
161 Posted 28/07/2016 at 06:47:01
Big salary increase; more chance to win trophies; play in the Champions League; work with one of the legends of the game. No brainer for the lad.

Hat tip to David Moyes for signing him.

Good luck, Stonesy. Hope Citeh crash and burn.

Kieran Fitzgerald
162 Posted 28/07/2016 at 07:14:09
£35m-40m and Bony. A proven Premier League striker, enough cash to give Barnsley their percentage and still be able to buy decent defensive replacements.

I think right now, this is the best deal possible for the club, not just the squad,because a new stadium costs money and this is where Moshiri will make a return on his investment. I don't see him spending endless millions on players when there are currently talks around a new stadium.

Moshiri isn't a oil sheik with billions of pounds just sitting around the place. The club isn't a plaything to him. If the sale of one player will hand the manager £30m plus for a transfer kitty, this will make sense to Moshiri. He appears to be the person in charge of signing the cheques right now.

Ian Burns
163 Posted 28/07/2016 at 07:29:15
I was really hoping this wouldn't happen. I care not about the valuation I care that we are losing an excellent footballer who would have improved immeasurably under Ronald Koeman.

All the best, Stonesy, I hope you go on to build a first class career and eventually captain the national side.

Paul Smith
166 Posted 28/07/2016 at 07:43:08
It's ironic that after after all the rumours of magadosh and transfers, it's an outgoing that's the first real move of the summer.

Feel absolutely no animosity towards the lad, it's a reality cheque (boom...) for the rest of us.

John Codling
167 Posted 28/07/2016 at 07:53:50
Mike (#8) Got another season out of him? Well, I didn't see it that way, this guy was not average, he was absolutely fucking shite. He was responsible for the loss of quite a few points with his dire defending and getting caught in possession.

He cannot head a ball, his positional sense is zero and his defending from set pieces is a joke. Oh yes ,his movement on the ball out of defence is impressive but first you have to defend.

The number of fans who wax lyrical about him and keep telling us what a great centre half he is obviously didn't watch him much last season.

Paul Merson (YouTube ) said everything that needed to be said about him. I would be shitting my pants until we got the £50+ million for him, in case Man City come to their senses.

Drew Shortis
168 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:00:32
Remember Jack Rodwell? The next Everton & England legend. Was he a ball playing centre-back or a midfield general? Rumours of a £30+ million transfer to Man Utd did the rounds for ages but we were determined to keep him. Eventually his career with us stagnated and we gleefully took the £12m Sunderland offered for him. What's he up to now?

I like Stones and hope he does fulfil his potential, but if City are offering £50m for a centre-back with potential when we desperately need one who can defend then we would be fools to hold on to him on the off chance he's the next Beckenbauer. Get Koulibaly (or equivalent) in and still have change left over. We can then put the reported £100m on a keeper, midfielder & left winger.

Sam Hoare
169 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:13:57
If Stones is paired with a fit Kompany or Bonucci under Guardiola then I've no doubt they will be the best CB pairing in the league next year.

Perhaps the same could happen if paired with Koulibaliy under Koeman

If he's desperate to leave then let him go for the right price.

Kieran Fitzgerald
170 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:19:47
Drew, Rodwell went to City first from us, I think for 15m, but your point is very valid. Not having one set position doesn't help players at an early stage of their career. Then sticking them on a pitch at eighteen and expecting them to run the show is silly.

I think the likes of Rodwell needed a move away from the limelight. The move to Sunderland from City should have been a big help to him as he was still young enough to lean and develop. For some reason, it just hasn't worked out. I know injuries haven't helped but with some players, they never have the brain or drive to really make the most out of their talent.

Rodwell played a lot of games last season and maybe the injuries are behind him. With Moyes now his manager again, maybe things will come good for him next season. I may just keep half an eye on him out of curiosity.

Pete Edwards
171 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:26:00
I would prefer it if he stayed but if he wants out then close the door on your way. No point keeping someone who doesn't want to play for us.

It's happened before and will happen again – the one constant is the club. We sell him, we move on... like we and every other club do.

Geoff Evans
172 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:30:13
Goodbye and good riddance. Laughing all the way to the bank.
James McPherson
173 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:39:53
Paul (166) - that's a good point. It reflects some posters' concerns that this pre season is mirroring all those that have recently passed. Which was not expected. Credit around acquiringKoeman, though it did demonstrate that with the systematic diminution of our brand under BK, money has to talk at EFC.

I can't fathom the log jam with getting players in – Moshiri money, Koeman appeal and reputation... not saying we should have them queuing down Goodison Road to sign but... just a reserve keeper with just over 2 weeks to go? Was not just the 11th spot – was the gulf in points that needs to be addressed if we are to climb the table.

Paul Holmes
174 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:43:01
When Rooney came on the scene at Everton, you could see it straight away – he had it, as shown when he lit up the Euros and tore France to pieces.

Stones struggles to get in the Everton team ahead of Jags and Funes Mori, ffs! £50 million, bite their hand off. Once he plays against big direct centre-forwards who can head a ball, City will be in trouble!

Peter Gorman
175 Posted 28/07/2016 at 08:54:10
On reflection, John Stones is preferable to 50 million but since the lad clearly wants to leave this whole debate is pretty moot.

So far Eric Paul is the only one who seems to recall Stones being the biggest of bottlers at Anfield (no mean feat, the other players were all in contention). For me that was a measure of the man; just plain weak.

All this talk of ball-playing brilliance is just guff really. Craig Short used to like bringing the ball out the back but nobody bangs on about it.

I'm thinking we should go 'Moneyball' and sign a couple of solid defenders with the proceeds. Team first and all that.

Jermaine Jennings
176 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:05:49
Thanks John, now do one.

There is no point in getting all emotional anymore about players who leave Everton for the so called rich clubs. I for one won't be losing any sleep when he goes.

We will see how good he really is when Kompany doesn't play.

Footballers are no longer loyal and are just mercernaries, which is why the game is ruined. Only a few loyal players remain such as Jagielka, Totti, baines, etc.

James Hill
177 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:15:07
The "modern footballer"... I fall over laughing every time I hear that. Stones is definitely the "modern footballer" – his ego and wallet are bigger than his talent. He eptomises the modern English player.

Wanna argue he was just lucky he wasn't good enough to get in the England team? For god sake, sell him – he doesn't want to play for us.

Yeah I'm going to get shit over the "modern player" being mercenary and having no loyalty. Just get rid; he's only going to be a bench warmer anyway for City. If Koeman thought he was good enough, we wouldn't be having a conversation with City.

Sunderland or Stoke player in 3 years when he's earned his money sitting on the the bench. Over-rated sulky kid.

Drew Shortis
178 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:15:13
@Kieran Fitzgerald 170
I'd forgotten Rodwell's time at Man City. Just goes to show how low key the move was after all the hype about him a few years prior. I do hope he gets his career back on track but it goes to show that potential is no guarantee and to turn down £50m for a defender would be foolish. I would hate to turn this cash down and then be selling Stones in a couple of years to Burnley for £12m! I'm not predicting he will fail to live up to his full potential, but that is always a possibility.
Dave Abrahams
179 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:16:44
This a good deal for Everton and John Stones, good luck to the lad, hope he has a fine career, but once players leave Everton I am not really interested in them.

As for players coming in let's wait and see who we sign, and there will be signings, I hope we will be all pleasantly surprised, but knowing Everton fans, there will be moans no matter who we sign.

Ray Roche
180 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:25:28
Amazing isn't it? All the pundits (spit) are now saying what a great prospect Stones is and how he'll blossom once he leaves Everton and plays for a GREAT manager who will get the best out of him. Future England captain, best young English player since Rio, always liked him and blah, blah, blah.

A few weeks ago he was a mistake laden, over valued, under performing, overrated player who should cost £12m max, playing for a small club who should be grateful that City will help them out of the financial shite by taking him off their hands. Koeman? Who he?

Saegaran Kana
181 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:29:08
You should only be wearing the Blue jersey if you want to be here. If not then you should go at the right price. £40-50 mil is an excellent deal for an unfinished product. Good luck, Stones.
Carl Sanderson
182 Posted 28/07/2016 at 09:59:37
Correct, Ray. The press have a few favourite clubs and fuck everyone else. I am still quite amused at how they kow-tow to Chelsea and Manchester Fucking City now that they are rolling in cash. I'm old enough to remember when both of those clubs were standing jokes.
James McPherson
183 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:14:04
Meanwhile...we are "in the running" for Robbie Brady...we hear patience patience patience...however Aug 13 will arrive. Don't doubt RK will get extra out of what he has - but we need more quality...unless we have paid silly money for a manager and D.O.F to stay in around 9-11th.
Ian Jones
184 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:15:11
I am sure John Stones will develop his potential and be a great player. But not sure if he is a captain/leader etc. When players like Tony Adams and John Terry came through years ago, you could see they were leaders from an early age. I don't see that with John. Perhaps leading from example but I don't see him as a 'shouty' leader etc, more like Bobby Moore.

As for the season starting in app 2 weeks and no incoming transfer activity as such. Remember, whether we like it or not, the transfer window goes on til the end of August. Still plenty of time.

Ray Roche
185 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:15:14
Carl, Chelsea in particular were something of a joke club with a fan base consisting of luvvies, out of work actors, people with little knowledge of football. Just like luvvies claim to have been United fans for ever.No on took them seriously although in the 60's-70's they had some great players and played some decent stuff. They also beat Dirty Leeds in the 1970 FA Cup Final which pleased just about everyone.

And if you're ever unlucky enough to be talking to a Citteh fan, a longstanding supporter who's followed them for years, ever since that Thai bloke took over, just point out that the three stars they had on their shirts denoted the three divisions they've played in since the start of the Premier League. They'll not know any different.

Brian Williams
186 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:23:38
The latest meeja shite is stirring things up even more. According to some sources, the hold up with Stones going to City is due to us not being sure whether we'll get Kone from Sunderland as a replacement.

Have to say if there's ANY truth whatsoever in that, I'd be tearing my hair out. First we're linked with Koulibaly, who I would be more than happy to get in place of Stones, then suddenly IT'S NOT Koulibaly – it's Kone, FFS!

James McPherson
187 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:24:42
Ian (184) - I agree, but makes sense to get the best squad you can over 38 games rather than 35. Especially when we are so far adrift (points wise) from top 6.
James McPherson
188 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:29:38
And we all know that if the window were to be end of September then we'd leave our business until then. Money or no money it is our strategy to buttress up to the window closing to get a "better" deal. Short termism in my view. Thought those days would start to disappear.
John McGimpsey
189 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:30:42
Sell to buy. I'm dying to see the net spend at the end of this window... stinks of Blue Bill.
Kevin Gillen
190 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:50:45
Never sell your best players if you want to win anything.
Michael Polley
191 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:51:17
I preferred him to stay as he would learn under the guidance of Koeman. But I'll take the £50 mil.

Stones needs to be careful though – he may only become a squad player and not play regularly. Quite a few have gone to City and disappeared off the radar.

Denis Richardson
192 Posted 28/07/2016 at 10:59:41
Kevin 190 - he wants to leave, end of.

By your logic, we refuse to selll then have a player sulking and stinking the place out and then he leaves on a free in a couple of years. Not exactly a great outcome for the club.

Take the (huge) money on offer, offload an unhappy player (who was crap last season), reinvest and move on. Club is infinitely more important than any one player will ever be.

Bored of the whole stones saga, would happily pay for his taxi to Manchester to finally bring an end to this.

Carl Sanderson
193 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:00:55
Ray:

When I worked in Manchester in the early 1990s the Citeh fans seemed like good lads, down to earth, loyal to their club but showing an amused scepticism about its behaviour. Their current incarnations are so entitled they could almost be kopites. As for Chelsea, a more plastic club would be hard to find.

Kevin Gillen
194 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:12:49
I don't agree Denis, no disrespect, but he should be the poster boy of Everton Football Club and if we let go everyone who thought they could get a better deal out there we would never hold on to anyone. I for one am not looking forward to this lad holding up trophies for other clubs and £50m is nowhere near enough when you consider that we only have one other fit central defender and the price of average players like Robbie Brady is pushing £20m. I agree nobody is bigger than the club but if you want to actually win things you have to be able to hold on to your best players because, given our recent history, we are unable to attract top players. Consider for a moment if this lad was at another club how we might feel about getting him to our club and how much that might cost. Too many posters above play FIFA it seems to me where they can improve their club with the click of a mouse. You are right on the bored of the Stones/Lukaku saga but we have become a selling club or development side for the top four. But hey, why worry, they've got my money for another season of mid-table mediocrity.
Thomas Lennon
196 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:24:14
Carl highlights where the identity of the club will be changing. We are hopefully moving from a cosy situation where 5th was an achievement (and it was with little net spend) as the top 4 were out of sight to a situation where top four will be demanded in a league where there is now a top 7/8 and last season was proof that money is not an excuse not to win the league.

Once you have money the fans attitude also start to change. I look forward to the time when we will not only be metaphorically rubbing shoulders with the top but barging our way through the crowds of teams at the top, upsetting, unsettling because cuddly little Everton are now established again as winners and all winners are a little bit nasty. When that day comes, our fans will be entitled too.

Amit Vithlani
197 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:34:39
Drew - 168. It was City who paid 12m for Rodwell. I don't think its the right comparison, as Rodwell is not, in my view, a comparable talent to Stones.
Denis Richardson
198 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:38:21
Kevin, understand what you're saying but we'll have to agree to disagree. Players have for a while had the power and if they want to go (and the club get a decent offer) then they go. Remember we also already said no last summer, presumably he was asked to give us another year then.

We'll also have to disagree about Stones himself. I think the kid is vastly overrated and if he didn't have a British passport would be 1/4 the price. He may or may not succeed at city - he'll prob get a medal or two given the rest of the squad they have but he himself I don't think will add much to them.

Just my opinion, only time will tell. In the mean time I'd rather have a real defender today than one who might turn out good in x years time.

Amit Vithlani
199 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:40:57
Jim - 74. If Bruno Martins Indi or Kalidou Koulibaly is holding the scarf aloft, I may allow myself a smile.

No new signing is a sure fire thing. Which is why I don't understand those wanting to see Stones go.

That said, the pulse will be racing if he is replaced by someone established.

Chris Owens
200 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:41:15
We only need a passing/dribbling centre half if the midfield is crap. It seems the lad doesn't want to stay, so let's take the money and buy one or two commanding, ball-winning centre halves who know how to attack the ball when it's in our box. The creative midfielders and wingers should be doing the dribbling well away from our goal where it's not a disaster if they lose the ball. Similarly for the fullbacks. Defending should be the priority for them. If a real opportunity arises for them to bomb forward once in a while, then go for it, as long as someone is filling in at the back for them.
Ray Roche
201 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:48:04
Carl#193

Carl, that's why I mentioned "the Thai bloke" as a timeline for their support. I too know older City fans who are proper lads, not the plastic variety, who appreciate what has come their way but don't necessarily love the idea of being seen as another Chelsea who, let's be honest, are the club everyone dislikes now, especially according to the results of that poll last week.

James McPherson
202 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:49:59
You have to look at two sides of the coin - it's legitimate to speak of the merits of selling Stones... But that has to be joined up with who's coming in. Don't get the overwhelming sense that's as close as it ought to be. Given Moshiri money why can't that be sorted first and then sell from a position of strength? Why put ourselves in the situation of being held to ransom post sale?
Paul Burns
203 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:51:50
So it seems we haven't entered a new era after all.
Any Everton player anyone wants can be taken as simple as that by offering money.
The club still have absolutely no ambition and letting one of the best young players in the world leave for a rival club is deemed good business by many buffoons on here.
This will come back to haunt us and the money will seem like chickenfeed in a couple of years, just like the pittance we received for Rooney.
But only after the money has been frittered away on inferior quality players which is why you finish in the bottom half of the league.
Great news indeed.
Brian Williams
204 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:55:56
I agree with Denis (#198) but wish Kevin (#194) was right...if that makes sense.
Kevin in an ideal world your take on things would be spot on. Unfortunately we don't live in an ideal world we live in a dog eat dog, nasty, unfair and mostly uncaring world.
We can't force Stones to be the poster boy of Everton if he wants to do one, which I believe he does (though I'd love to be wrong) and what would be the point of forcing him to stay, risking poor form (like a fair portion of last season) and then the lad running down his contract and going for nothing or us having to sell him at a reduced fee due to his poor form.
We're in a rather unfortunate position as a club at the moment (I know that sounds daft with all our new found wealth), which in a way mirrors Stones' situation in that we now have great potential but it's not cast in stone (no pun intended) that we'll realize that potential.
We're in a catch 22 situation in that we're not yet seen as a contender, despite the new wealth, and top players don't yet want to come to us. They'll want to come to us when we're seen as a contender..but we need top players to become a contender...unless Koeman and Walsh can put together a team who's sum equals more than it's parts like Ranieri did at Leicester. Having said that they've lost one of their top players already so even if you win the league you're still not necessarily considered one of the big boys, or treated like one.
David Ellis
205 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:56:30
Chris #200 - I disagree. The point about a CB who can carry the ball/pass well is that he can do this if the midfielders are marked by opposition that is trying to press. If our CBs were both like Jagielka its easy to win the ball back from us. Just tightly mark every player apart from the two CBs and wait for them to eventually kick the ball to you. With Stones you would have to close him down and that would create space for others. It's not about bombing forward and being an attacker its about forcing the team out of possession to work harder at closing us down and this creates space for the midfielders (talented or not).

Actually if you had crap midfielders there's no point have a passing CB - he should just lump it forward and bypass midfield and hope a lucky bounce or deflection leads to a scoring chance - its how it used to be in the Div 1 - just watch games in the 70s on YouTube.

Brian Williams
206 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:57:33
Hey Paul. People aren't buffoons just because they don't see eye to eye with you mate.
Rob Halligan
207 Posted 28/07/2016 at 11:59:07
Just one thing about all this. Where exactly does it say Stones wants to go, and where exactly does it say Everton have agreed to sell him?

All I am reading is the usual shite in the media, which is all bullshit anyway.

Or have I missed something?

Colin Williams
208 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:03:12
Great, selling our biggest asset to a rival, great ambition! This lad is everything us Toffees have been praying for... And we're selling him, great!

We don't deserve any success, if this happens. Do everything to keep the lad and build a dream team around him. Selling him makes no sense at all.

Ray Roche
209 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:05:12
It will be madness to allow Stones to go without having a replacement lined up. We have good young players coming through but they're nowhere near ready to face Ibrahimovic etc. just yet. Jags injury also focus's the paucity of available CB's who are good enough to go straight into the team for an extended spell. Funes Mori and...er, who?
Nick Page
210 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:06:56
Once he's at Shitty, he's a shoe-in for an Ingerlund CB starter role .because he cost £50m. Oh how I will laugh at the egotistical cess pool that is our national team.

Anyway, even two CB's for £20m a pop would be unbelievable business and would strengthen the squad no end. Hopefully they've been identified

Colin Williams
211 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:09:32
Paul (#203)... Totally agree with you, your spot on mate! Fecking gutted about it.
Stale Haverstadlokken
212 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:12:15
50 mil for Stones and 75 mill for Lukaku...
Must be halfway to a new stadium?
Brin Williams
213 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:21:30
What's Distin doing these days?
Robert Workman
214 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:24:57
I am surprised that Mourinho didn't bid for Stones again. I would have liked 40million plus Wayne Rooney.
Ian Hollingworth
215 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:29:18
Happy to sell Stones for £50m as he obviously wants to go and we hopefully will use the money on quality replacements.

Don't be surprised though to see a much improved John Stones in a City shirt and you can put most of the blame squarely on Bobby brown shoes shoulders for that.

I am also starting to get a little nervous about our transfer kitty as it is looking that we need the Stones transfer to kick start our own deals.
What happened to the £100m war chest?

Mike Green
216 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:33:07
Paul #203 - every player, at every club in the world has their price.

John Stones and Everton Football Club are not immune to that (see LFC and Suarez, MUFC and Ronaldo, Spurs and Bale).

If the lad really does want to leave, and has so for a year or two, its about negotiating the best deal for the club - or would you prefer he run down his contract, run down his value and run down morale in the team?

Ben Jones
217 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:33:57
They're clearly paying 50 million for potential. If you list the top 10 centre backs in the Prem, Stones wouldn't be there. I'd definitely take the money.

It's naive to say we should keep our best players. I know we have the money, but we're still at least 4/5 years behind City with their investment/level of player recruitment, and that's a little optimistic.

Get someone in to replace him with Prem experience. Van Dijk would be my first choice. Was excellent last year, played better than Stones and still young enough to improve. Players like Shawcross or Williams as a short term fill isn't a bad idea either.

It's a bit concerning that we haven't signed anyone yet, but Walsh has only come in last week, hopefully the signings will come.

Steve Brown
218 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:45:28
Guardiola played midfielders at centre-half for Barcelona, adjusted that for Bayern and will surely not attempt that at City despite talk of Delph and Fernandinho. Therefore, he needs a ball-playing centre-half partnered with Kompany like Stones. But if Kompany remains injury prone then teams will have a field day against them in the premiership.

For us this move makes sense. Our £100 million transfer budget suddenly doesnt look so big with spiralling fees. Koeman can bring in two dependable defenders for that fee who can defend, have good positional sense and both judgement and experience. Under his system, I think he will want the defenders to send the balls down the channels or pass it to midfielders.

That allows us to focus the £100 million on the rest lf the team. For the lad himself, I wish him well but fear for his development at City. I think he will get found out actually.

Gareth Oughton
219 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:51:49
£50m for a good player with potential to be a very good player isn't a bad deal. We may regret it if he fulfils that potential, but the guy doesn't want to stay and that money could buy us Van Dijk from Southampton and Kone from Sunderland; with £10-£15m to spare to go towards a new keeper.

Good luck to him and hope it works out well at City.

Ray Robinson
220 Posted 28/07/2016 at 12:54:54
If we do sell Stones, which now looks inevitable, the negotiating teams need to include appropriate sell-on clauses so that we mitigate the loss should he achieve his potential. My personal view is that Stones would be better suited to continental football not the hurly-burly of the Premiership but that's taking the argument in a different direction. He will certainly need nerves of steel at City where at the first sign of any defensive mistakes, the centre backs cop for one hell of a lot of stick. They've signed eight centre backs since 2009. Demichelis, Mangala and Otamendi have hardly been rip-roaring successes have they?
Mark Pierpoint
221 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:18:03
Mike #216 is spot on. This suggestion that Stones going is some slight on Everton Football Club is wrong. Every club in the world, I would say with the exception at the moment of Real Madrid, Bayern Munich and Barcelona will face the prospect of losing players at some point, as there is always a bigger fish circling. Look at Juventus with Pogba.

Stones has wanted to go for 12 months plus. We can't keep hold of him forever. Despite wanting to go last year, he got his head down an played. Not suggesting he is a modern day hero for this, he was still getting paid massive money and playing at a good level; I do think that not allowing him to go now though would be a little unfair, unlike with Lukaku whose exploits make me have little sympathy.

50m is a good price. I do think he is worth it and I do think he will become England captain in the medium term future. At centre half as well. If he does go I for one wish him the best of luck and hope he gets a decent reception on his return from the majority.

Pete Edwards
222 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:22:21
I'm confused... people saying he should play midfield as can't head the ball??? I'm sure playing midfield requires quite a lot of heading during a game... no?
James Marshall
223 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:25:25
For everyone calling Stones a future England captain, it's worth noting you're talking about one of only two players who couldn't even get a game at the Euro's for a very poor England team.

He's only 22 though, and has plenty of time to develop - with that in mind £50m for a 22yr old we only paid £3m for ..if that's not good business, I'm afraid you've lost me.

There are plenty of centre halves out there that can do a job for us, and John Stones alone isn't going to be able to do the job of a back 3 or 4 anyway - every player is only a sum of the parts of a team, and if there's one thing we've lacked the last 2 years, it's a team.

Koeman is here to build a team, and part of that team building is restructuring - we all knew Stones wanted out, and good luck to the kid.

Mike Green
224 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:33:41
Spot on also Mark #221, including your point about Lukaku.
Paul Conway
225 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:37:09
According to my teenage son's Pokemon game, we have three Pokemon's at Goodison Park... Solid replacements for McGeady, Niasse and Kone!
Mike Allison
226 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:39:04
Steve (218) I think it's a smart move for him actually. If Guardiola can get City playing like Bayern and Barcelona then Stones won't have to defend, because the opposition won't have the ball. He'll be expected to play with it, not stop others playing.

Stones is class, but completely replaceable. In fact, with everybody fit, he's not necessarily in our current best XI. I want to keep him, I want him to develop, play for England and win trophies for us, but if I can't have that then £50m to spend on someone who can be more effective than him in winning football matches is a reasonable second choice.

Sure, no-one wants to lose a good player, but Bale, Ronaldo and Suarez all left 'destination' clubs. It doesn't have to be symbolic of the entire status of your club, it's one young lad making a decision in his own self-interest, accept it and move on.

Chris Owens
227 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:42:25
David #205. I agree it's always useful to have a centre half who can carry the ball forward well, but it's not so good if he takes chances when he is the last line of defence. If Stones had learned from his mistakes, he would have become a regular in the England team by now. We looked stronger at the back last season with Funes Mori and Jagielka in the middle, as they knew when to 'get rid'. The defensive midfielders should always be able to make themselves available for the short pass out of defence. Gareth Barry probably hasn't got the legs now for all that running around to escape his marker, so Besic and McCarthy should fill those roles.
Mark Murphy
228 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:43:09
First off I'll say that I am a BIG fan of John Stones. The lad just oozes class and ive never seen a central defender so comfortable on the ball.
BUT, he's a luxury player that we neither need in our current guise of a work in progress, nor can afford not to cash in on in order to strengthen more urgent areas of the team.
I watched him closely at the Home game with Leicester last season and he was a joy to watch BUT far from commanding. Their first goal that day came as a result of lickle Jamie Vardy leaving him in no mans land and flicking a header on to a Leicester player who was consequently "brought down" (I disagreed with the ref vehemently at the time) by Funes Mori.
He was only a calming influence when bringing the ball out of defence and when we were on the back foot we always looked vulnerable.
I love him to death but we don't need him, nor are we good enough to compensate for his lack of defensive strength or guile.
£50m or thereabouts is great business.
Stephen Brown
229 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:53:57
The level of Stones the player can be debated one way or another however I've seen very little in him to make him captain material?!
Chris Gould
230 Posted 28/07/2016 at 13:58:19
Stones isn't the right kind of defender for us right now. We can't afford such a luxury. Hopefully in 3-4 seasons time we may be the kind of team that can get the best out of a defender with John's qualities. Right now we need centre backs who concentrate solely on stopping goals being conceded. That's not John Stones. It's right for us and right for John to move on.
Brian Williams
231 Posted 28/07/2016 at 14:08:18
One thing that's just sprung to mind.

Is it not the norm for a player looking very likely to move within the next week to be left out of any preseason game or tournament for fear of him getting injured?

Is it at all possible that all the paper talk could just be bullshit because Stones is in the squad for the Dresden Cup, and played a half hour against MK Dons.

James Cuthbert
232 Posted 28/07/2016 at 14:09:21
Good defenders are available at a fraction of what Man City will pay for Stones and selling him for £50mil is good business, especially if he doesn't want to be here.

Maybe Koeman doesn't see a ball playing centreback as being intrinsic to his principles, it is a luxury rather than a necessity after all, and he's already mentioned distributing from the full backs rather than knocking around between the defence and the midfield like Roberto insisted on.

Carl Sanderson
233 Posted 28/07/2016 at 14:53:11
Stones a luxury player? Couldn't disagree more. If he decided to stay I would be absolutely delighted. If we are going to challenge at the top end of the league we will need top-end players.

How a top-class central defender can be a luxury player - whatever that is - isn't clear to me.

Brian Wilkinson
234 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:01:19
Well both Everton and Man City are playing in Germany so maybe this will be sorted before the weekend.
Mark Murphy
235 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:05:41
Carl
In my opinion he isn't a top class central DEFENDER.
A top class footballer yes but not even a great defender. Yet.
We need someone solid and now is not the right time for a John stones in our defence.
The team comes first for me.,
Mike Mulhall
236 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:18:02
Wish we were buying players ;-)

My 20 pound bet with a kopite to finish above them is currently looking like a poor investment :-(

Brian Wilkinson
237 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:19:07
Stones reminds me of a cross between Bobby Moore and Franz Beckenbaur in his style of play, is he a Dave Unsworth or Derek Mountfield defender? No.

He could go on to be one of the best, or if his form dips and a few errors creep in, he could be benched and confidence shattered.

He is taking a big risk going to city, at Everton he could have learned from one of the best defenders in Ronnie, good luck whichever path he chooses, £50 million is crazy.

On a final note, if I had to choose from a Jagielka a few seasons ago in his prime, or Stones, I would choose Jagielka every day of the week, no nonsense defending or farting around with Jags, he would put his body on the line to stop a shot, and put in row z instead of being caught with the ball.

Jagielka knocked Arsenal back years ago and stuck with Everton, it will be a sad day when Jags hangs his boots up, enjoy Jags while we can, as for Stones, thanks for everything, if your hearts not with Everton then go, no player is bigger than Everton.

Carl Sanderson
238 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:23:56
"The team comes first for me".

To me there's no contradiction and no trade-off here. He is an excellent player with a cool head, good distribution and he is a leader. He was badly mismanaged by Martinez and will be a great loss to the team. It is instructive that Mourinho and Guardiola are prepared to pay mega-bucks for this "luxury player".

Martin Nicholls
239 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:27:02
Brian#237 - agree with you about Jags.
Fran Mitchell
240 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:44:25
I'm sad that he'll be gone.

I like seeing good players at Everton, cheques with lots of zeros only excite me when put into my bank account.

But high quality defenders, and he is one, are not easily replaced.

Those saying jags is better are on another planet. Jags is a decent Europa League level defender. Not quite tall, quick or strong enough to truly dominate a striker. Not skilful enough to build an attack from the back. Has good timing when tackling. But stones is a rolls royce, and sometimes the money received just ain't worth it.

He wants to go so we have to sell. But i'my not at all happy about it.

Carl Sanderson
241 Posted 28/07/2016 at 15:54:08
Exactly, Fran. Stones would learn so much from Koeman if he stayed, as will Jagielka. I'm truly sorry to see him go.

Jagielka and Stones, properly managed, would be a marvellous combination.

Stan Schofield
242 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:00:45
As far as I can see, it's still just media talk. Stones is still an Everton player, and I hope he stays one. I too believe he can prosper under the new regime. He's a tremendous player on his day, and good management can bring his best out more consistently.
Brian Wilkinson
243 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:10:02
No one is saying Jags is a better player, far from it, what you get with Jags is no nonsone football, ive lost count the number of last ditch tackles Jags has made in his time at Everton, his throwing his body to block a shot, the number of times hes bailed Hibbert Baines and Coleman out when out of position.

Jags has done a fantastic job for Everton, I stick by if I had to choose between 8 seasons of Jags in his prime, I would choose Jags, thats just my opinion, others will disagree, but the planet I am on is the one who has watched Jagielka in an Everton shirt and he would be my first choice centre half every day of the week had he had age on his side.

Again Jags will be a big loss once his career ends, but what a fantastic servent he has been for Everton.

Jay Harris
244 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:49:30
Brian totally agree.

Those criticising Jags are basing it on the last 2 season of Martinez misery.

Jags when fit and firing on all cylinders is as good as any CB in the prem which is why he got so many caps for England despite being at an unfashionable club.

Unfortunately time waits for no man and injuries are starting to tell.

Sam Hoare
245 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:50:52
Just saw this regarding Koulibaly:

Napoli’s sporting director Guiseppe Cannella has confirmed that the club has received bids from 2 Premier League teams for star defender Kalidou Koulibaly, but confirmed that the most concrete offer is from Everton.

Cannella seemed to hint that the big Senegal defender is on his way out the club by saying he doesn’t think he would be able to concentrate on playing in Serie A next season.

Cannella said to Radio CRC: “I do not think Koulibaly can have the right concentration to play in the same league as last year, if he was to stay. There are two important offers from the Premier. With Koulibaly and Higuain we had to sit at the table first to discuss a renewal. Everton is the most concrete team of Koulibaly “.

Jay Harris
246 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:51:10
As an aside I see Napoli director of sport is saying Everton is the most concrete bid for Koulibaly and they don't see him there next season.

Over to you Mr Walsh.

Sam Hoare
247 Posted 28/07/2016 at 16:55:39
Ha. Beat you to it Jay. No-one trawls Newsnow for transfer gossip as often as me!
George Freeman
248 Posted 28/07/2016 at 17:26:00
(Brian 234) Sorry mate, nice try, but Man City are playing Borussia Dortmund in China today.
Jay Harris
251 Posted 28/07/2016 at 18:17:10
1-0 to you Sam although I was going to include it in my post that beat you by 80 secs. LOL
Mark Pringle
252 Posted 28/07/2016 at 18:23:16
230+ comments and my pick of the bunch is .Alan Johnson@159 "Stones defending is excellent" Wow!!

All entitled to our opinion and lots sorry to see him go but I don't remember any excellent defending. I'd rather he stayed but clearly does not want to so get rid.

As for another comment about never seeing a pile of cash head or clear the ball, neither does potential! C'mon RK, sign Witsel, Koulibaly, Mata and Mario Gomez and go light up this league. COYB!

Jim Burns
253 Posted 28/07/2016 at 18:23:20
James @223 - I'd say, that if John was one of only two players not to get into a poor England side at the Euros, it probably confirms his credentials as a future England captain.

To not be considered good enough by that hapless fool of a manager, is confirmation he will be an England captain one day.

Jim Burns
254 Posted 28/07/2016 at 18:33:53
Paul @203 - I agree with you, in that we shouldn't be letting the lad go, and should be trying to build a future around him.
However, those on here who have a different view and express it well, aren't 'buffoons' - they just happen to see things differently - and a level of mutual respect wouldn't go amiss.

Anyone who still believes the club aren't, at last , showing genuine ambition, surely can't have been keeping up with the news over the last few months. Steady evolution - not overnight revolution.

David Hallwood
255 Posted 28/07/2016 at 19:48:15
He can go for me. He may be easy on the eye and good on the ball but his positional sense and awareness of danger is poor, even allowing for Booby the clown's 'coaching' he should be better than that. I'll challenge any Evertonian to sit down with DVD's of the last 2 seasons (100+ goals conceded BTW) and you will mistake after mistake.

Forget the Cryuff turns, the overplaying instead of hitting into row Z, his positional play is piss poor, and gives himself too much to do and has had to rescue too many desperate situations.

Compared with Chiellini; now he IS a proper football playing CB, positionally perfect, snuffs out danger, OK he’s vastly more experience, but Stones will need a Himalayan learning curve to get anywhere near him.

Get a CB that can defend and strengthen in other departments with the money.

Jimmy Sørheim
256 Posted 28/07/2016 at 20:56:56
I strongly oppose selling Stones this summer, I would want to wait until January at least so that I can judge his real ability because Martinez destroyed all our defenders during his time here.

If he starts to whine then we can still sell him in January.

It would be stupid to not try to hold on to our best talented youngsters no matter what.

Peter Gorman
257 Posted 28/07/2016 at 21:17:45
Paul Conway, I can't admit to knowing too much about pokemon but I gather John Stones at Anfield did a passing impression of Squirtal.
Keith Edmunds
258 Posted 29/07/2016 at 00:08:36
I'd love it, just love it if he stayed! I hate to see are best players leave.
Keith Edmunds
259 Posted 29/07/2016 at 00:15:26
Oops, sorry Michael OUR best players.
Tom Graham
260 Posted 29/07/2016 at 01:46:39
Hard to know just how good Stones is after the shambles in the last half of the season.... though I think he is very good.

By the way, looks like we have Gueye and, if we get M'bodji and Koulibaly, maybe we should change our name to Senegal Blues!

Phil Sammon
261 Posted 29/07/2016 at 03:05:59
I agree with Jimmy 256

I'd love Stones to stay with us and work towards becoming the world class player I believe he can be.

It all depends just how badly Stones wants to leave. He's a very respectable, down-to-earth lad so I wouldn't see him throwing a paddy if he was told he's staying put. Then again, we can't afford to carry players who are giving anything less than 100%.

Brian Wilkinson
262 Posted 29/07/2016 at 03:22:24
George@248 yes City are playing Dortmund, John Stones is on the flight to Germany, City are already in Germany, so why the nice try, surely if City are already in Germany, they can then meet for further negotiations.

Now if City were not in Germany, we could look at Stones travelling as a possible stay, somehow I think the deal will be done in Germany.

Brian Wilkinson
263 Posted 29/07/2016 at 03:37:41
Oh dear City are in China apologies George@48, I put two and two together and came up with five, if your going to drop a clanger better to hold your hands up, hands held firmly in the air.
Darryl Ritchie
264 Posted 29/07/2016 at 03:37:46
Brian Wilkinson
265 Posted 29/07/2016 at 03:39:27
Yeah spotted that Darryl, right clanger by me.
Lee Brownlie
266 Posted 29/07/2016 at 07:21:23
As others have said, pretty fed up of hearing about the kid now!.. but, still, while we're at it, me ten-penneth for what it's worth is that if we can get the vaunted 50 mill, then its absolutely GOTTA be done!!.. after all, 2nd year of speculation has to be a case of enough is enough.. we ALL saw how it affected him last year, so how would it even be worth refusing him a move, or even TRYING to pursuade him to stay ?

Also can't help thinking 50 mill would be remarkable considering how he's shown he's not that big on taking pressure.. ok, he's young, but City or any other so-called 'big' team in for him are hardly looking to put him in the reserves for a season or two while he 'grows up' are they?

Basically, I can't even see how that money guarantees Pep Guardiola or anyone else anything like the player they really want! He did great with the step-up, here, coming from Barnsley (my birth-town, though I am a Toffee 100%, incidentally!) but that was under relative 'cover', not initially too spotlighted or expected to be part of a trophy-challenging team (sadly, and as per the media!).. different scenario, now, though...

Anyway, good luck to him, maybe Pep's style of play will bring out the best of him, but he really has been totally spoiled already for us, I reckon!.. so lets send him on, wish him well while we take the wad of readies to get a replacement (++?).. then run him ragged next time we come against him and his new outfit!!! COYBs!!!!!!!

Carl Sanderson
267 Posted 29/07/2016 at 07:50:28
"we ALL saw how it affected him last year ..."

Did we? What I saw was a player, a defence, a team that didn't know whether it was coming or going because of criminal mismanagement. If Stones stays then we will see an excellent player under Koeman.

James Hill
268 Posted 29/07/2016 at 10:09:34
Talk about Jags and Baines – players who have pride and commitment. Stones Is a below-average defender. Wow he can a pass ball. Really? How many times last season did he give it away and cost us?

Below average... get rid and buy a good defender. He won't make it, he's average. End of.

Colin Glassar
269 Posted 29/07/2016 at 15:29:39
John is out in Germany with the squad and is training hard to be included in the game. If he does eventually leave, it looks like it will be with a minimum of fuss (unlike Lescott). I also think Guardiola has a bit more class than Sparky Hughes and he won't want to make this into a slagging-off match.

The lad is class, on and off the field, so give him a break and support him while he's still a Blue.

John Daley
270 Posted 29/07/2016 at 15:47:37
"Below average... get rid and buy a good defender. He won't make it, he's average. End of."

22 years old. Three years experience of playing in the Premier League. Full International. Multi-millionaire. Subject of £40m-£50m transfer bids. Chased by (what are considered by many to be) the top two managers of recent years.

Yet, 'he'll never make it' in the game?

Carl Sanderson
271 Posted 29/07/2016 at 16:23:56
"Below average... get rid and buy a good defender. He won't make it, he's average."

I despair.

Chris Williams
272 Posted 29/07/2016 at 17:31:35
I see the great John Cross in the Star is saying that Everton should accept their status as a feeder club to the great and good and stop demanding £50M for Stones, and generally acting above their station. He says it looks like it's making Stones look miserable in Germany.

Gobshite!

Colin Glassar
273 Posted 29/07/2016 at 17:38:05
John 'Mr Arsenal' Cross is an embarrassment to his profession, Chris. Not only is he a southern softie, in every sense of the word, he's also a complete moron who ghost writes for his beloved Arsene.
Carl Sanderson
274 Posted 29/07/2016 at 17:38:33
And Stones moving to Man City will improve the England team, according to the BBC.

It's the same coordinated campaign that took Rooney to United.

That really turned England into world-beaters.

Chris Williams
276 Posted 29/07/2016 at 17:43:49
Me too Colin
Colin Glassar
277 Posted 29/07/2016 at 17:55:19
It's actually Jeremy Cross, Chris. Another member of the North London mob which dominates the red tops. John Cross, Sam Wallace, Jeremy Cross, Paul Haywood etc... All a bunch of toffee nosed shits who can't see further than their London clubs and the rich NW teams.
Denis Richardson
278 Posted 29/07/2016 at 18:06:48
Yet another transfer that seemingly has no end..

I really hope this is finally put to bed soon as it's can't be helping pre-season with Stones still being about the squad and every man and his dog knowing he'll be off soon.

Only one seller, only one buyer. Fee seems to have been agreed so wtf is the hold up?

Chris Williams
279 Posted 29/07/2016 at 18:10:46
He's a prick, whatever his name is, Colin.
Dave Pritchard
280 Posted 29/07/2016 at 18:16:11
Why do people read The Star etc and then get upset by what they've read? Don't buy the paper, don't read what they say. By buying and reading you are doing exactly what the publishers' want. These people are seen by their employers as doing a good job if people are talking about what they've written.
Colin Glassar
281 Posted 29/07/2016 at 18:21:38
I've never actually bought The Star, or The Sun, Dave, but I do see them on NewsNow and they make me want to puke tbh. They are dishonest, corrupt and evil with an agenda to serve their powerful masters.
Chris Williams
282 Posted 29/07/2016 at 18:23:40
It as online Dave but I should have Known better so no money changed hands, and never will.

It's the principle I suppose. These talentless parasites plying their trade for worthless untruth-mongers playing to people's prejudices.

Serenity now!

Declan Martin
283 Posted 29/07/2016 at 21:51:27
Bring back Shane Duffy.

We should never have let him go...

Alan Johnson
284 Posted 30/07/2016 at 02:00:37
79% of ToffeeWeb respondents want to make Man City stronger and EFC weaker, according to the "should we sell for £50m" poll. Apparently we have £100m to spend anyway.

His replacement will be on more wages, cost £38m, is older and not as good (otherwise, Man City would buy him instead).

The £12m left over will go to Barnsley, Stones's loyalty payment, and agent's fees. Maybe you're all getting a cut of the sale?

A team we will be directly competing with will be stronger thanks to us. Can someone please explain how selling Stones makes us better? Because, if it doesn't, 79% of you guys are doing John Cross's job for him. 79% of you doing Kenwright's dirty work. 79% of you mediocre lovers.

Maybe you're all getting a cut of the sale? Stones will only increase in value under Koeman.

Carl Sanderson
285 Posted 30/07/2016 at 06:53:21
"79% of you guys are doing John Cross's job for him. 79% of you doing Kenwright's dirty work. 79% of you mediocre lovers."

I agree with the third of these points, although I would express it differently. Years of mental conditioning have had the expected effect: there are fans who somehow can't believe that we deserve to retain top-class players. It's called an inferiority complex and it's ironic that Man City, of all teams, are taking advantage of this.

Rob Hooton
287 Posted 30/07/2016 at 08:42:44
Alan and Carl, 284 & 5, maybe 79% of us just don't think he's a very good defender and will do a Rodwell/Jeffers and that we are taking City for mugs!
Stan Schofield
288 Posted 30/07/2016 at 10:33:33
To me it seems ridiculous to even contemplate letting Stones go just as we get a new manager who can potentially get the best out of the lad. We all acknowledge the mismanagement of the last few seasons, and just as we are in a position of potentially (and probably) better management we're arguing the toss over whether to get rid of the lad. It's not as if we NEED the £50M, that's the point given that we're no longer a 'selling/feeder club'. Given the lad's sheer ability in many areas, and despite his faults last season, to me it seems simple logic to see how he fares under the new regime.
John Codling
289 Posted 31/07/2016 at 08:01:05
Again we are about to let players and agents dictate when they leave. I am not bothered about Stones going but it seems to me Everton are again due to start a season without what looks like our recognised CH & CF.

Everton knew this was going to happen and should have told the players agents weeks ago to get early business done or fuck off. Again we are going to be scrambling looking for replacements, or buying players we don't really want, having been backed into a corner. I for one am fucking sick of this lack of planning, and EFC letting other clubs priorities take precedent before our own.

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