Mayor: Announcement 'in a couple of months'
Still no definitive news about a replacement for Goodison Park
The Guardian report that Everton would need to pay around £10m more than initially reported to acquire the plot earmarked as a potential location for a new stadium which is now thought to be at Bramley-Moore dock.
Everton's hierarchy have been negotiating with the Peel Group who own the waterfront site in Liverpool's north docks area north of the Wallasey Tunnel, as they consider relocating from Goodison Park.
Joe Anderson, the mayor of Liverpool, said yesterday that an announcement on the club's new home could be made “in a couple of months” but the docks site is apparently dependent, however, on the Blues meeting Peel's £30m asking price for the land.
Anderson would not comment on the specifics but is quoted as saying: “Things are really positive. No option is ruled out but everyone knows my preferred option. Everyone knows the club's preferred option. There are discussions taking place and we're at the heart of that trying to move things on.
“Really, given where we were 12 months ago, we are in a much different and healthier position. The obstacle with all these things is an agreement must be reached. We did that with Anfield. We had challenges, had to buy properties and move people on. It's about negotiation and making significant concessions.”
Peel have long had planning permission for a £5.5bn redevelopment project in the area that had no stadium plan but have yet to break ground. If, as was reported by the Liverpool Echo last month, the chosen docklands site is at Bramley-Moore docks as opposed to Trafalgar Dock, it would likely need to be filled in to provide the footprint for the stadium construction.
The other brownfield land at Stonebridge Cross on the East Lancs Road in Croxteth would be a simpler project in terms of its readiness but is less popular with supporters because it would move Everton to the city limits near the M57.
Reader Comments (131)
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1 Posted 10/09/2016 at 00:08:09
2 Posted 10/09/2016 at 10:15:55
Having said this, since when did any company commence an expensive tart-up of their HQ with the prospect of it being knocked down 'in two years'? That's just more money down the drain and doesn't ring true to me.
I know I have no confidence in any of the bullshit that comes out of Goodison – and that Macca message shows Moshiri is as keen on it as his luvvie partner – so I guess it will be the late 2020s before we see any real action on the 'New Goodison' front. If ever.
3 Posted 10/09/2016 at 10:21:53
4 Posted 10/09/2016 at 10:43:43
Whatever aerial photograph that will be taken of Liverpool city centre, our shiny new stadium will be there in all its glory. All the tourists will be asking "Wow, who plays there?' 'Oh that's Everton's new ground...' 'Wowwww, doesn't it look class.
5 Posted 10/09/2016 at 10:47:58
But where is the mayor of Liverpool when you want him? He should be pulling out all the stops to find Everton a new home at a reasonable price, because Everton can't carry on playing at Goodison Park, with half the stadium as a relic of the past, that reminds me of a Victorian theme park with cast iron girders.
6 Posted 10/09/2016 at 11:41:39
7 Posted 10/09/2016 at 11:52:29
A month ago this would 'seem' outlandish... now? it's just another possibility... and the longer there's no movement on the Dock site, the less Moshiri seems like the 'White Knight' Buyer we thought / Led to believe / Assumed... tbf, some of that might be all our own fault.
8 Posted 10/09/2016 at 12:14:35
9 Posted 10/09/2016 at 12:46:39
It seems people are using the issue to get publicity or to sell papers.
I remember this talk about the Clarence dock back in 2009 and still nothing concrete has been announced by the club or Peel.
I saw the pics of Bill, Moshiri and Anderson discussing the matter and read Andersons statement that the club should be in a new home in "Couple of years" but nothing since.
The longer it drags out the more anxious I feel about it and Colin's comments have terrified me, It wouldn't surprise me at all if the RS end up with the site.
Just a factual statement from the club to say "negotiations are on going with Peel holdings to aquire the site" or SOMETHING would be nice for fans who have been blagged for decades now.
10 Posted 10/09/2016 at 12:49:41
What makes the docks development a really attractive option for all is the balance of things. The football ground, the associated interests it will generate will be a catalyst for expansion where a lot of fingers will be stuck in many pies.
What really interests me is the planning and design at several levels; the master plan for the City, the district plan and the local plan for the immediate vicinity around the ground. The reality of an iconic architectural stadium (iconic via good design not extravagant spending), could create a completely different take on the ferry business as well as the need and potential to give life to an extended waterfront.
Living in the Middle East I am out of touch with the geography of the situation but the mix of vacant land, waterfront potential, intermittent mass transit and a potentially global name as a cornerstone for the development does not come together very often.
We need to tread quickly but carefully. With talk of a European League on the horizon, and Liverpool FC a shoe-in for membership, (don't ask me why as all the anti-conspiracy theorists will put there blinkers on), Everton in the waterfront docks, with a winning team, will set a whole new dynamic for the evolution of the club and football in the city. That is when the planning approvals stumbling blocks will emerge. If European League is coming, then it will may be difficult to orchestrate a presence at that table for both Liverpool and Everton FC. That will be a big stumbling block.
For me I see the real businessman's target is to push Everton onward and upwards and with the stadium being integral to the process, as well as being able to generate profit on many other parallel fronts.
11 Posted 10/09/2016 at 12:51:59
12 Posted 10/09/2016 at 13:45:39
13 Posted 10/09/2016 at 17:44:19
Mr Moshiri, Joe and the fans want this location, the money is irrelevant now. Yes, there will be problems to be solved but aren't there always in an undertaking like this?
I expect us Everton fans to have a wonderful pre-Christmas present in the form of a positive announcement... "Watch this space" and it's likely to be a very big one!
14 Posted 10/09/2016 at 17:56:00
ps: I begin to suspect that no one's got a pot to piss in when it comes to the crunch, so we'll have to make do with a cheapo makeover of GP it'll keep us quiet for a season or two, they think!
15 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:04:47
16 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:04:54
Also, is it not so that Everton would benefit from the sale of Goodison? I appreciate it wouldn't be £30 million, but it should still be a reasonable contribution surely?
Lastly, Mr Moshiri is an investor. I don't know what his thoughts are, but a waterfront stadium with the other attractions William #6 mentioned must represent a considerable improvement in the asset value of the club. And therefore in his investment too?
17 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:13:55
I don't know you Phil, and as an Evertonian you must be good chap in my book, but for heaven's sake look on the bright side once in a while eh?
How on earth a temporary tart-up can be seen in a negative light is beyond me. Keeping Goodison looking presentable during a probable wind-down of its usage, for relatively peanuts, is not a waste of money. It is sound marketing in an image-conscious business.
Get with the program, Phil and enjoy the ride into the new stadium and the upper reaches of the Premier League. It may take some time, some politicking and some set backs but the future looks good.
18 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:21:02
19 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:29:07
One thing though, we own Goodison right? Scrap value of the metal during demolition and the sale of the land would off set the overall costs?
20 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:30:48
No news on who the purchaser is but along with some of the stadium designs and other things it sounds very promising for us.
21 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:33:51
Building a new stadium would have made commercial sense 10-15 years ago when the ticket sales represented a significant part of the annual turnover. With the explosion in TV revenue, high potential in commercial income increase, stadium revenue just isn't as important as at once was.
The focus should be on investing in youth facilities and the first team. Goodison will do for the next couple decades at least.
22 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:34:43
23 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:34:53
24 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:37:25
25 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:41:51
26 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:42:09
27 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:44:45
28 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:47:14
It will all just fizzle out money or no money as before. They bend over backwards for Liverpool FC. (Would we have been allowed to build on Stanley Park or put up a monstrous new stand at Goodison?)
We couldn't even get planning permission for a Stadium and retail development in Kirkby that would have given an immense boost to a still run-down community.
Sorry to be so cynical and I sincerely hope I'm wrong.
29 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:48:12
30 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:51:31
31 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:51:49
32 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:56:35
You beat me to it! A player that would not have lasted pissing time (whether it be him not good enough, or simply him jumping ship for more millions, err, em, trophies), as opposed to a lasting legacy and nothing more than the loyal Evertonian deserves.
33 Posted 10/09/2016 at 18:58:36
We have eleven boxes in front of the main stand nowhere near enough. In terms of a club's annual income, gate receipts only generate a small percentage. We've sold about 33k season tickets this season, which if worked out an average of £600 per season ticket, is only £19.8M.
With a new stadium we could easily increase the number of executive boxes to well over a hundred. Not sure how much the boxes at Goodison are per season, but imagine that figure ten-fold?
As Colin says, there are other ways to generate income from a new stadium. We have to grab this opportunity while we can.
34 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:03:07
36 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:14:36
As regards to planning, Karl, I think if any site is/has been purchased, it will be bought with the guarantee that planning will not be a problem. I don't think Moshiri would take that gamble, buy the site and worry about planning later.
37 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:15:24
But this is Everton, billionaire owner or not, as a business, we plan to fail. So, having spunked £13M on a crock of shit like Niasse and palming £11-12M to get rid of Martinez, I expect us to totally fuck this one up.
38 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:21:15
39 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:25:16
40 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:28:16
41 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:32:29
I think their stadium (aerial pictures in the press) looks a wholly mess of a stadium. We need to grasp the nettle, and blow their B&Q building out of the water. It's our one opportunity to truly step into the light and become the Northwest's top club. It's now or never.
42 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:44:04
Obviously Everton are being far more cautious probably and correctly waiting till the deal for the land and the planning permission if needed is complete before making any statement.
The one undeniable fact is even before Moshiri came on board the club had already decided that a new stadium was the only option. They had said that rebuilding Goodison wasnt a viable option. So I am sure that we will be in a new stadium at some point in the near future, say within 4 to 5 years maximum.
43 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:44:25
I know I am getting old and forgetful but that seems to be rattling around in my head for some reason!!!
45 Posted 10/09/2016 at 19:56:02
A shiny new stadium would be nice also no doubt, but would it be at the expense of squad strength?
46 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:01:58
47 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:15:25
Believe me, I want to be wrong, but I'm already seeing Moshiri as an enabler rather than the financier we desperately craved for. Another 'jolly promiser' in my book let's just hope I'm wrong!
48 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:15:55
At the last annual meeting of the shareholders had given their approval to a project, which the board had in view of demolishing the shareholders stand on Bullens road and putting up a more ornate and substantial one. The directors had given the matter serious consideration and had decided that owing to the price of materials etc, they would postpone the erection of the new stand, they then had a credit balance of £6,518 and he would take it, that in passing the accounts the directors still had their approval of the project should they see fit to go on what after the coming season, the report and accounts were adopted and a dividend of 5 per cent, was declared on the motion of Mr. W.J. Sawyer. (Liverpool Post and Mercury, June 14th 1924)
To be fair some two years later April 8 1926. The Liverpool Daily Post and Mercury reported that "Work has begun on the Everton F.C. stand at Bullens Road. The old stand is being demolished, and at present the sight of the remnants suggest there has been a fire at Bullens road. It is believed the new stand will be up by the beginning of next season, and that the ground will then hold something like 70,000 spectators. "
By September 3rd 1926. The Daily Courier reported:
Everton announce the opening of the new Bullen's road stand at Goodison Park for the West Ham United match on Saturday. The shareholders' stand is all seated, and the member's stand has from 600 to 700 fixed seats. As the South end of the new stand will not be ready until the following Saturday, only the north portion (Gwladys Street end) is available for Saturday.
Unfortunately West Ham ran out 3-0 victors and the new stand had to await another three weeks for a home victory, but it was worth the wait as the opponents were none other than Liverpool.
The Liverpool Post and Mercury wrote "Everton won their first game of the season at Goodison Park, The only goal of the contest was scored by O'Donnell after fifty-five minutes' play, and it was sufficient to enable Everton to break their long spell of abortive efforts."
49 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:24:14
Everton FC simply has no choice but to build a new stadium; if it fails to do so, we will become another Sheffield Wednesday, Leeds United et al and be consigned to a life in the lower leagues. I don't want that and whilst a new stadium doesn't guarantee on-field success, not building it would likely guarantee failure in the long-term.
50 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:34:23
51 Posted 10/09/2016 at 20:42:56
This time round, it just 'feels' different, and getting Koeman in, plus his support team, was a major step. A top-class manager, about time. Before he came in, folks on TW were saying it was too good to be true. But it happened. I think it's similar with the new stadium. I see a docklands site as inevitable.
I believe that Moshiri aims to make Everton big, a 'global brand' in today's parlance. It makes big business sense, but also, perhaps someone like Moshiri is motivated by other things besides, particularly given his Arsenal baggage. Ego, competitiveness, a project larger than mere money, exploiting Everton's strong history and symbology (cool Latin motto and School of Science), keying in to the fact that football is really a different kind of business. If this is his aim, then a great new stadium in an iconic location is part of the package.
I could be wrong of course, but it's simply what I cannot avoid feeling after 55 years of supporting Everton. An unashamedly positive perspective, to balance some of the (understandable) negative and conspiratorial views on TW.
52 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:02:03
1. Everton need a marquee site for a stadium.
2. Peel need a credible marquee developer to give credence and validity to their Liverpool Waters project, without which it will remain on paper for years to come. Liverpool's dockland is not London, unfortunately.
3. Liverpool City Council needs it's population to start growing again, and developing the north docks is a key building block to that objective.
There will no doubt be some government, and possibly even EU money available, to help with decontamination works, enabling works such as utilities, dredging, landfill, roads and services. We may even get a new station on the Northern line by the Titanic Hotel. It's all about sustainable jobs and this stadium could be the key to all of this.
A waterside stadium could do the same for Vauxhall and Bootle that the Olympic Stadium did for Stratford, and the Etihad has done for East Manchester, and if done to a sufficiently high specification, could compete for European Finals and such like.
This will not be lost on any of the key players in this saga. What is finally in place is a representative of the club with sufficient funds to make our part happen. I personally have no doubt that it will, and soon.
53 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:02:32
The council should be encouraging Everton to get on with it. The docks location will offer visiting fans an opportunity to visit the sights and stay the night. Make a weekend of it. Local businesses will benefit. Liverpool will benefit.
My main concern is if the board don't get on with it now, it may never happen. The Premier League won't be the best league in the world for ever with billionaires on the board and Sky revenue. Goodison gets redeveloped or a new ground. Change must come or get left behind financially.
54 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:02:37
I'd rather put that towards a stadium, thanks!
55 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:06:06
56 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:10:48
57 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:11:59
As it happens, I expect Koeman to succeed. He is a ruthless winner who is at an age when he cannot afford to fail. Moshiri is yet to prove himself but his choice of Koeman was critical. It is right that a new stadium can help but it is no guarantee. West Ham look bewildered in their new place early days I know and Middlesbrough and Sunderland have done fuck all down the years in their shiny palaces with many empty seats.
No, it's down to Ronald; and we'd better understand as fans how late it is.
58 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:16:04
a) the Mayor subtly walking back his twitter statements to reset expectations
b) keeping us informed / engaged in the idea of a new stadium
c) avoiding unnecessary disquiet over Everton being too quiet
d) allowing time to get the whole package lined up ready for announcement
e) distracting from the other lot's big day :-)
Keep the faith blues. I think it's way too early to start being concerned about Moshiri and his money. Look how far we've come in the very short period since he came on board.
COYB FTRS NSNO
59 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:19:14
This is Everton, ffs... since the '80s, all they have done is fuck up at every turn.
60 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:21:19
The dockside stadium would put Everton back on the map of world football and could make any recovery that we gain from Mr Moshiri's money sustainable long term. It is truly visionary so instead of panic and screaming, just pray that the club are able to make this happen. It may be though that it, in the end, is beyond the capability of a football club to finance and deliver a new stadium on a derelict dockland site. The Emirates was a doddle in comparison.
61 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:22:07
64 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:36:38
65 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:50:20
66 Posted 10/09/2016 at 21:59:21
67 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:01:35
Let's stop all this pseudo-romantic nonsense about a dockland stadium and go for the obvious.
68 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:07:58
69 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:18:10
70 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:26:37
It's not the lying that kills me it's the queue of idiots that buy it. We've got the club we deserve sadly. We were majestic once... not now
71 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:33:47
Good job you old lags are there to stamp that right out .so we can get right back to the proper job of feeling sorry for ourselves about the last 20 years!.
72 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:38:09
73 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:43:01
More interestingly that in the not too distant future he said, he had the understanding that we will be moving our home to Liverpool docklands..He didn't go into any details nor was he asked, so not sure was he going on media speculation or knowledge from high places. I would be thinking the latter myself...
74 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:44:00
75 Posted 10/09/2016 at 22:56:33
If appearances are anything to go by... neither. He's probably just been told to shift his sleeping bag and is putting two and two together.
76 Posted 10/09/2016 at 23:05:52
77 Posted 10/09/2016 at 23:47:06
By building a new stadium we not only increase the capacity, but also our corporate hospitality suites and boxes
A point not made enough in my opinion! And well said by you.
Everton simply must have a ring of corporate and hospitality suites encircling a new stadium. It's where the real money is, and it's the factor that makes the construction of a new stadium a no-brainer.
The 10,000 to 15,000 new seats are an increase in revenue, but it's the corporate boxes that will make the most economic impact. I'm not an expert and this is conjecture, but surely there has to be truth in this?
Corporate boxes are the cash-cow.
78 Posted 10/09/2016 at 23:59:08
Appreciate what you are saying. But it not just about bums on seats relating to individual fans. It's the image you project. It's also about corporate hospitality, corporate sponsorship, and how many people, who may never visit the ground in person, perceive the club.
What about all our oversees fans, existing and those who are yet to be? Marketing, is so much more than just bums on seats in a stadium.
And to return to your original point, if Everton have an amazing new stadium, are doing well and getting into the Champions League, are attracting big names, I believe the gates will increase.
79 Posted 11/09/2016 at 00:10:36
I'd guess the Mayor is going on the way he is because the municipality must be involved and he knows what's coming (Plus being a politician . . . )
Enjoying the knee-jerk "It will never happen", though.
80 Posted 11/09/2016 at 01:15:24
81 Posted 11/09/2016 at 01:20:58
Scepticism is good. There is a difference between that and ignorance though. The narrative has changed; you can pretend it hasn't if you want that way you can at least be smug and superior about your misery if you are proven right, eh?!
82 Posted 11/09/2016 at 01:26:59
83 Posted 11/09/2016 at 02:00:55
Get it done now because, the longer this goes on, the more it will cost. The Premier League money is going to keep going up, prices in the centre of Liverpool will keep rising (Brexit included) and Everton will be in an increasingly desperate situation.
Get it done and dusted. Secure a great, central and picturesque spoit that will raise the profile of the club and impose the mighty Everton on our great city. It'll look like a snip in 20 years to come...
84 Posted 11/09/2016 at 02:35:11
A tin pot shithole in Crocky looks the likely outcome to me. Why? Because we know our history.
I'm afraid that Moshiri has holed his own reputation below the waterline with that transfer drivel.
85 Posted 11/09/2016 at 05:02:19
Moshiri has been given a 'four-year' project to deliver Champions League football and secure a new stadium. If both are achieved he will be allowed/given the right to purchase the remaining shares to make him majority shareholder.
£20m already agreed with Peel for the Bramley Moor dock. Why is Great Howard St shut for 6 months? Work on an existing bridge and to renew rail station maybe? I'm a believer baby!!!
87 Posted 11/09/2016 at 06:51:50
He's already the majority shareholder. Sorry.
88 Posted 11/09/2016 at 07:17:36
Peel Holdings have a history of sitting on land in prime locations. They generally don't fully finance major projects, instead they look to work in partnership with other companies.
£30 million may be the figure that's been quoted, which is plausible. Although, it's questionable if the the land will be sold if there is a bigger pot of gold waiting for Peel if they can lease the land instead.
I'm slightly optimistic that Everton will see this as too big an opportunity to miss out on.
89 Posted 11/09/2016 at 08:30:53
90 Posted 11/09/2016 at 08:51:29
All the years of hope and disappointment can take a long time to get over – if ever – but hope is surely what we as fans should have? And a new majority shareholder who will be able to fund a new stadium but these things take time.
What I don't like is Joe Anderson opening his mouth saying the things he is! If I was Peel, the first thing I would do, hearing how it's the site we all want, is put a premium on top of the price. He's making us sound desperate in a way for the land... "If you want it... you can bloody well pay for it!"
Anyway, I have hope and feel it will happen; patience is all we need – as difficult for some as it is!
91 Posted 11/09/2016 at 09:35:17
92 Posted 11/09/2016 at 09:49:59
93 Posted 11/09/2016 at 10:04:38
94 Posted 11/09/2016 at 10:21:33
95 Posted 11/09/2016 at 10:27:47
96 Posted 11/09/2016 at 10:33:37
97 Posted 11/09/2016 at 10:34:13
As long as it doesn't involve his Monaco and BVI mates and their heinous interest rates, that seems OK by me!
98 Posted 11/09/2016 at 11:08:06
I think undoubtedly an improvement in corporate facilities would improve finances as being a 'premium' product they attract greater margins.
But their effect is more likely to be incremental than a game changer. In fact due to the changing shape of football finance, match day revenue is reducing as a percentage because of the ever increasing size of TV revenue.
However say we could start from scratch we could probably have 75 corporate boxes at about £80k a year. Thats £6m a year. (Arsenal have a 150 at about £100k).
Let's say we could increase the number in matchday lounges by a few thousand. Another £2m.
Take away existing revenue and costs of operation, might be £5m a year extra profit on match days.
Obviously my numbers have big assumptions in them but I don't think corporate is a 'cash cow' but of course it all helps.
99 Posted 11/09/2016 at 11:41:04
How can the club "technically" lose contact with a good percentage of shareholders.
100 Posted 11/09/2016 at 11:59:44
And if you missed any of the media love fest yesterday you'd have realised this was their largest attendance since 1977(?) in a game against WHU. Unfortunately, the media didn't have the time to interview all 58.000 attendees as some had planes, trains and boats to catch but a documentary is to be made to honour the new stadium, fuck!! Stand!!!!
Yesterday I puked several times with so much information overload.
102 Posted 11/09/2016 at 12:15:17
I suspect that there is definitely another player involved here in a far bigger picture than the Stadium alone but at this stage it is at "arms length". See Phil W # 97.
That land has to be developed in the long term interests of the City of Liverpool.
Here in Melbourne (the worlds most liveable city) 26 years ago we had a similar area of unused Dockland. After 20 years of development you should see it now - and it's still going on. It has had a huge impact on Victorian economy and its people.
This article is well worth a read - there are some striking similarities between the histories of the Liverpool and Melbourne Docklands.
One question that has occurred to me that I haven't seen raised on any recent post is this:
If we get a new stadium presumably Goodison will be demolished. How much would the land be worth and what would it be used for?
103 Posted 11/09/2016 at 12:23:03
Always wary of a quick lick of paint to cover the cracks and for how long it is supposed to last, before the exodus. The short to long term 3-10 years!
104 Posted 11/09/2016 at 12:39:31
I would suggest that this could be a commercial opening for our ferries. We could build 3 or 4 huge car parks, Starting at Otterspool and others built at the Bootle end. Then we could have terminals built so the ferries bring in the fans, rather than have the massive problem of 40-50,000 trying to park round a very congested dock area. Our supporters from the Wirral and Wales could board ferries at Birkenhead and Seacombe.
Now that really would be unique, seeing ferries pull up outside our new stadium.
105 Posted 11/09/2016 at 12:51:27
5 Liverpool 4 2 7
6 Arsenal 4 2 7
7 Hull 4 2 7
8 Everton 3 2 7
Its it so blatantly obvious the way the media dislike us and glorify the shite. You know, back in the late '50s early '60s I sometimes went to watch them and stand in the kop. I now hate them with a passion, such arrogant pricks.
106 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:00:12
107 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:00:19
About £6m give or take. L4 is not renowned for its vibrant property market.
108 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:04:10
109 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:06:33
As others have pointed out, the real money is in the TV deals, getting into the Champions League and getting a rich owner. It would be nice for Everton to have a bigger ground by either building it or redeveloping Goodison Park but it is not going to suddenly transform us into Barcelona on the Mersey.
It appears that these days to be considered a "big club" you need to have a ground that holds a minimum of 50 to 55 thousand people. Look at West Ham. They suddenly see themselves as a big club simply because they have acquired a large ground. Somehow it appears to be some kind of virility symbol and is supposed to intimidate the opposition's players although I doubt they even notice. Really big grounds, and by extension, big crowds are there for the TV companies to give their televised games atmosphere.
I would also point out that no club that has moved to a larger ground has ever reduced ticket prices even though they have much bigger crowds. Usually it's the opposite. to help recoup their costs they usually put ticket prices up. So be careful what you wish for. We may end up with a bigger ground but it will cost us more to get into it.
110 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:32:07
111 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:41:45
Bring back the dockers' umbrella, I'd say!
112 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:44:51
You are overlooking the amount of corporate, hospitality & premium seating which is in that new stand. That's why it's been built.
You need to maximise all revenue streams. Liverpool lag behind Arsenal & Man Utd in terms of matchday revenue, have done for years, and have started to do something about it.
Also, building a ground with a bigger capacity isn't some sort of virility symbol if, as West Ham, Spurs, Arsenal and Liverpool do, you have a waiting list. It's building a ground big enough to accommodate your fans. Arsenal moved from Highbury (38k?) to the Emirates (60k). Check the size of their waiting list. As recently as the mid '90s, Everton and Arsenal were very similar clubs.
It's called progressing your club. EFC has had a handbrake applied to its development for 25 years. It's time to progress.
113 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:48:27
114 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:49:30
115 Posted 11/09/2016 at 13:59:03
116 Posted 11/09/2016 at 14:01:02
Check the size of their cheapest season ticket price as well. it's almost 3 times what Everton's is. More than £1,000 and their highest is over £2,000. You got that kind of money?
I'm not saying don't build a bigger ground but it won't be cheap and the fans will pay a lot more to get into it.
@John Rafferty. So basically they have more seats but the income has remained roughly the same as it was before they moved. Of course there is also the fact that they didn't have to pay to actually build the stadium themselves. I'd bet they wouldn't have reduced prices if they'd had to cover that cost.
117 Posted 11/09/2016 at 14:17:05
I too used to stand on the Kop, because I have red mates. But I wouldn't do it now. When Klopp was appointed, I thought we could do with someone like him, given his reputation at Dortmund. However, when we got Koeman, I realised we now have someone better than Klopp. He's calmer, more measured, doesn't need showmanship, has more Premier League credibility, and immediately commands players' respect through his obvious ability. They'll play well because they want to impress him. We're on the up, and the only thing we need concern ourselves with is beating the opposition, game by game.
The next big inevitability is the docklands stadium. What Liverpool do to enhance what to me has always been an overblown sardine can is irrelevant to us. Goodison was one of the best stadiums in its day, which is why it was used in the 66 World Cup. There's every reason to suppose the new stadium will have a similar status to that.
118 Posted 11/09/2016 at 14:30:30
I remember standing in the middle of the Kop wearing my blue and white scarf. Liverpool were in the 2nd Division and think they were playing Sunderland.
Anyway Everton were playing away to Spurs and battling for the 1st Division title. At full time when they put the scores up on those plates at the sides of the ground and showed we had won 3-2, I was jumping up and down with obvious glee. Liverpool fans just smiled at me. Bet you cannot do that now.
119 Posted 11/09/2016 at 14:32:58
We have the wonderful assets of Holgate who is the best young natural defender I have seen in a very long time (including Stones) and of Gueye who may prove to be one of the very best buys in our history. If Walsh does nothing else, then I suspect he may have justified himself already with that one.
''An overblown sardine can". Lovely.
We are indeed on the up because we're being properly organised and we're going to be very difficult to beat. Most of the elite sides have shit defences and powerful attacks. We're rather the opposite, at least on present evidence. It's going to be interesting to see how that plays out this season.
120 Posted 11/09/2016 at 14:33:28
Just timed with the Red half main stand opening and Evertonian politician Joe saying something for the sake of the event relatively banal and then taken out of context to create a story in the paper.
The Club have said nothing; Peel have said nothing.
There will be a new stadium project and economical, revenue and asset investment build-wise - it makes sense to have a waterfront stadium to kick-start water-side development and create events, a football quarter, and build the population of Liverpool as it becomes more attractive.
Please stop using any half-baked story to to vent ridiculous criticism of the Club... just behave and get behind this new era.
Given the state EFC was in when Bill Kenwright took over, we are now in a good position and Moshiri and his cohorts coupled with waterfront redevelopment interests for all parties means it is inevitable to happen.
121 Posted 11/09/2016 at 15:03:53
The other major shareholders would support him anyway, after all they agreed the sale to him. All share transfers, even of one share, have to be approved by the board. In this way they can keep an up-to-date list of shareholders.
There are many transfers that don't go through the board though. These usually occur through gift or inheritance. I know a kopite who owns 4 shares having inherited them. Other problems arise when shareholders move and don't notify the club of the change of address.
Incidentally, EFC shares which traded at £1350 just over a year ago are now at £1750. Presumably Moshiri paid somewhere between those prices when he bought the 17325 needed for his 49.5% holding. That works out at £31m at the high end. If he paid £80m that's quite a premium.
122 Posted 11/09/2016 at 15:13:20
Prime location for housing. Housing with a percentage of affordable housing. Over to you, Mr Mayor!
123 Posted 11/09/2016 at 15:26:04
124 Posted 11/09/2016 at 15:35:46
By best I don't mean biggest. There is no need to build an 80,000 capacity stadium, but 55,000 (wouldn't that make our ground bigger than big stand united's 54k??) capacity state-of-the-art stadium, built so that a capacity increase may be possible in 10-15 years time ,should be the way to go forward.
Hopefully the new stadium project will be announced before Xmas!! That would complete a very decent off-the-field year for Everton FC. Under Ronald Koeman, I firmly believe we can parade the Premier League trophy at Goodison Park before the Old Lady's sad but inevitable closure.
125 Posted 11/09/2016 at 16:47:25
Firstly, I don't believe Farhad Moshiri has joined the Everton Board – he is not an Everton Director... strange but true.
Yes, he has his man, Alexander Ryasantzev, on the Everton Board of Directors, and presumably if it does come down to votes, they vote by share allocation represented, rather than simple individual vote (although that's really a question for the Articles of Association, or UK Company law, of which I know very little).
If that is the case, then Ryasantzev (as Moshiri's representative) has much more than a 'working majority' on the Board – he wields over 70% of the share ownership represented on the Board, and I believe this (indirectly) gives Moshiri complete control – to the extent that he wishes to exercise it.
There has been so much angst from some fans over the significance of his 49.9% (note: not 49.5%) share ownership. Despite the semantics, that does give him full overall control of accountable Everton shares. Not strictly a majority of all 35,000 outstanding Everton shares, but definitely a highly effective working majority of the accountable shares – it is impossible for him to be out-voted.
Your info on the going share price is very interesting. The figure quoted for Moshiri's purchase of Everton shares was £87M (not £31M), giving a nominal share value of a stunning £5,000 each (not £1,750). Note – this is for private deals between individuals; I don't believe these transfers are controlled or sanctioned by the Board, and it's very revealing that the apparent perception amongst the handful of persons trading those shares is that Everton FC Co Ltd is worth only £61¼M. That is a huge difference from the implied value Farhad Moshiri bought into: 35,000 * £5k = £175M.
Either Moshiri paid far less than £87M for his 17,465 shares (not 17,325)... or the small number of people buying and selling Everton shares since March don't realize the vast increase in share value as a result of Moshiri's buy-in.
An interesting historical (inverse) parallel is that Kenwright's True Blue Holdings bought Everton shares for £853 each back in 1999 – an absolute steal. Yet that street price never reflected such a low total valuation of the club.
126 Posted 11/09/2016 at 16:52:10
127 Posted 11/09/2016 at 16:53:25
128 Posted 11/09/2016 at 17:17:50
129 Posted 11/09/2016 at 17:22:39
You qouted me:
"Arsenal moved from Highbury (38k?) to the Emirates (60k). Check the size of their waiting list."
And then typed:
"Check the size of their cheapest season ticket price as well. it's almost 3 times what Everton's is. More than £1,000 and their highest is over £2,000. You got that kind of money?"
If we moved to a new stadium, I very much doubt Everton would implement Arsenal's price structure, Frank. It's a different area of the country with a different economy, average wage etc. Totally different. If it happens, our lowest priced season ticket will NOT be over £1k and to suggest it would be is, being kind, utter nonsense.
You may as well just type, "I don't like the idea of a new stadium." It would be quicker and more effective.
130 Posted 11/09/2016 at 17:23:44
After buying two shares last year I had to wait until a board meeting had taken place to receive the share certificates.
Regarding a site for a new ground, nobody has mentioned the William Collins Playing fields between Vauxhall and Stanley Roads. The loss of playing fields could be compensated for by handing Goodison over as a swap.
Sandhills station is 250 metres away, both tunnels are within a mile and road traffic has a wide choice of access/exit routes. There are loads of bus routes within easy walk too. In terms of regeneration this must be better than the docks for the city rather than a dockside site which would actually benefit Peel rather than the city.
And I suspect it wouldn't cost £20/30m.
131 Posted 11/09/2016 at 17:51:11
132 Posted 11/09/2016 at 18:13:20
Sorry, Raymond, I should have been clearer on that point. I'm making an assumption that the individuals on the Board vote the shares they either own or (in Ryasantsev's case) represent. I admit that is conjecture by me.
The breakdown of power on the Board is thus:
Ryasantsev: 17,465 shares*
Kenwright: 4,256 shares
Woods: 3,116 shares
* These shares are strictly in the name of Blue Heaven Holdings Ltd. Farhad Moshiri is the Ultimate Beneficial Owner (UBO) of BHH and (in our shorthand) the owner of these shares.
If you add those up, 70.3% of the shares on the Board are represented by Frahad's man, Alexander Ryasantsev.
(I'm ignoring other Board members, Elstone and Barrett-Baxendale, who may have minor shareholdings, as was required back in the days of Keith Wyness... but this requirement that they be shareholders may have changed since Kenwright re-wrote the Articles of Association.)
133 Posted 11/09/2016 at 18:25:54
134 Posted 11/09/2016 at 18:47:12
No problem. By that time Anfield, Etihad, Emirates etc will all be falling down, so ours will look like the bees knees (whatever they look like).
135 Posted 11/09/2016 at 23:43:51
136 Posted 12/09/2016 at 00:09:30
137 Posted 12/09/2016 at 13:48:49
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