Lukaku: I could have had more goals

Credit to Koeman for making the change at half-time, he has balls unlike his predecessor. Deulofeu came on and changed the game and seemed to ignite the rest of his fellow forwards. Top work from the lad.

And as for Gueye, wow, the lad is a machine. Covers every blade of grass, tackles, intercepts, picks forward passes, hardly ever seems to waste possession, what a signing!

We know that during the next international break there will be stories about him moving on. Do I care? Errr, no.

Was he really? Two pin-point crosses that he met unchallenged. And a one-on-one with the goalkeeper. Rom can be a fine player and his goal scoring record is remarkable... but he had bags of chances laid on a plate for him today.

Anyone think Defoe wouldn't have got a hat-trick if he was playing for Everton last night?

Dave @6: If he scores a few more hat-tricks and we end up in Europe, he might end up staying.

Nice interview too, especially the bit about being better and helping the team, change in attitude!

Wonderful hat-trick though. And Bolasie looks great. COYB.

Radio stations still saying no chance of top four, no respect.

And, could this signal the beginning of the end of Barkely's Everton career. I think it's clear Koeman is starting to get frustrated with our mercurial midfielder.

Talk about finding the right pieces of the jigsaw, Bolasie from the wings and the magnificent Barry and Gana winning balls in midfield and passing them through defences to match his superb runs.

The danger now is expectations and disappointment, we must sometimes be happy with lucky or ground-out draws and wins. We play Man City away soon and that will be the real test. At the moment, our league position is probably flattering and not too important.

There will never be pleasing some people, but what pleases me is that Rom himself was not satisfied with his and the team's performance in the first half. Remember 'feed the Yak' – the same goes for Rom: he will deliver.

I'm very pleased with the start of the season and really enjoying our play. It's a joy to watch Everyon again.

186 Tony Cottee 3 Home League Sheff United 4-2 1993-94 Centre Forward
187 Paul Rideout 3 Away LC Lincoln City 4-3 1993-94 Centre Forward
188 Tony Cottee 3 Home League Swindon T 6-2 1993-94 Centre Forward
189 Andrei Kanchelskis 3 Away League Sheff Wed 5-2 1995-96 Outside Right
190 Gary Speed 3 Home League Southampton 7-1 1996-97 Outside Left
191 Duncan Ferguson 3 Home League Bolton W 3-2 1997-98 Centre Forward
192 Kevin Campbell 3 Home League West Ham U 6-0 1998-99 Centre Forward
193 Nick Barmby 3 Away League West ham U 4-0 1999-00 Centre Forward
194 Steve Watson 3 Home League Leeds United 4-0 2003-04 Centre Forward
195 Ayegbeni Yakubu 3 Home League Fulham 3-0 2007-08 Centre Forward
196 Ayegbeni Yakubu 3 Home Uefa Sk Brann 6-1 2007-08 Centre Forward
197 Louis Saha 4 Home League Blackpool 5-3 2010-11 Centre Forward

EFC Hatricks

Martin (12) did you notice his movement and positioning in the first half, I did, wasn't very good was it?

And no Defoe wouldn't have scored all of those goals, but I do rate him.

I am quite happy for Rom and nights like last night are surely liable to make it more likely that Rom stays at our club. I find some of the posts about Rom and some of the comments about David Moyes quite unsavoury and dishonourable. The paradox is the lauding of the club's honourable behaviour in donating a sizeable sum to that poor lad's hospital fund.

I think we all should be a little more understanding and forgiving towards petulant players or former managers and we should think on about the pressures of living a life in full view of the public's gaze before judging others.

Anyway, Rom, what about all those missed chances in the FA Cup semi-final last season...

Well I thought that was quite good anyway!

Apart from his goals, his work rate, movement and strength were all outstanding. The two Sunderland CBs were terrified of him.

Barkley seems to slow things down too much; with Del Boy coming on, the Sunderland team got stretched and we know the rest.

By the way, Kone, who doesn't get much support on ToffeeWeb, scored a hat-trick against Sunderland last season, if I'm not mistaken.

Ronald Koeman gave Mr Kenwright the credit for Everton donating the money towards that little boy's fund last night, and as much as I dislike our chairman, I have to applaud him for such generosity. It's made me very proud of our club, as well as football in general, and hopefully will help to save this little kid's life.

Let's hope this kid also lives enough life to also gain the memory of an elephant, because I'm sure Everton will forever hold a place in his heart, after making such a great deed last night..

Negativity is negativity and believe me, your view is not the truth, it is an irrationally negative opinion that I believe shows little knowledge of the game.

Your list is only until 2012.

Here's a link from closer to home.

Link

In the past, I have voiced my concern on TW about Lukaku's overall input to a game. Never doubted his ability to score. Had we managed to get upwards of £50 million I would have accepted it. Only saw the game on TV so appreciate you don't get as good an insight into players general movement off the ball as you do watching the game from the stands. To me, in the first half, he seemed to be wandering around aimlessly, fairly motionless, like the latter parts of last season.

Second half, especially once he had scored, he was different. Assume confidence plays a part in football, especially forwards. When they score, something changes.

As Lyndon states on another thread, 'He proved once again, however, that when he is fit, mentally on song and the team plays to his strengths he remains a naturally potent goalscorer'

Can't argue with what Lyndon says – I guess that is the key to Lukaku.

I am frustrated by Lukaku because I feel he has the ability to do more. Whilst it would be great to have a striker running around at 100 mph and no doubt into the ground, creating chances for himself and space for others to score, and generally causing havoc, that is not Lukaku, probably never will be, and I will accept him for what he is - a goal scorer. Of course, with Koeman as Manager and a good coaching team behind him, who knows, we may get even more out of Lukaku this year. The time to assess Lukaku will probably be at the end of the season. If he's not performing, he won't be in the team. Koeman doesn't seem the type to suffer fools gladly…

If he can get his head on to the end of some terrific crosses, whether being challenged or not (like last night) and be provided with the type of ball he thrives on for his third which produced a good finish, none of us should really complain, including me…

Lukaku also says "But we won today, the defence did well, you mustn't forget that; they did brilliantly and as a striker you know that if you have a good defence, you're if you score a goal you can win.

Baines in his Sky interview after the match indicated the players were getting fit or fitter.

It seems as if things are generally improving within the club, especially the defence. Early days, many more challenging games for our defence to face. I am sure our defence would have perfomed just as soundly with John Stones there because we have a proper coaching team in place.

I will leave you with the words of Taylor Swift – I can hear Lukaku singing this: :)

'Cause the players gonna play, play, play, play, play
And the haters gonna hate, hate, hate, hate, hate
Baby, I'm just gonna shake, shake, shake, shake, shake
I shake it off, I shake it off'

Spot on, mate, if he scored 3 every week the haters would still moan that it should have been 5. 2 on target in the very poor first half 9 attempts 6 on target 3 goals yes he was just average last night!!
Maybe we should swap him for Defoe!!!! Not.

Just to be greedy. I'd have Defoe as well!

Not sure where I would put him. Perhaps we could loan him out to some Dutch team...

:)

If you then say, OK, but just let's consider what Defoe would have done if he had been there in those three situations instead of Lukaku, then, yes, he probably probably have scored. But that situation would be purely hypothetical, so I can't really see the point in considering it.

I can't help but feel he mentally switched off after the match-winning display against Chelsea in the cup. As if his agent said "Job Done!" You'll get your move"!

Now the window's shut he seems to be focused again. Great for us. I hope he maintains this focus for the rest of the season and he might not need to move to get Champions League footie.

Not a good first half from him. And could have had a couple of more goals. But as Eric says, 2 on target in the very poor first half; 9 attempts 6 on target 3 goals. Can't be dissatisfied with that.

In comparison, I always think about Robbie Fowler for the redshite. Would do naff all for 80+ minutes then bag a goal or two.

I don't care if he looks cack for 80+ minutes as long as he does what he is paid to do. Score goals.

Koeman has realised how to play to his strengths, it's a pity the dope before couldn't.

His off-the-ball movement has improved considerably for which he credits Thierry Henry for coaching him in how to lose defenders.

He has a big mouth, poor touch and should have scored a couple more but, if he keeps banging them in, he is the essential cog in the wheel.

I do think we are over-reliant on him, however, as nobody else last night came close to scoring.

Good point about Thierry Henry. Forgot about how influential he could be in Romelu Lukaku's development. We may end up thanking Roberto Martinez after all!

We may be over-reliant on Lukaku but on the other hand, if he hadn't played, then we probably would have been set up another way and who knows how we would have played...

If Koeman can turn us into top 4 (or even title) contenders then players of Lukaku's quality will stick around. You can see from the post match interview that he's not someone who accepts mediocrity, but thankfully, neither is Koeman. He knows he has weaknesses to his game and clearly wants to address them, hopefully Everton will reap the benefits for a while yet.

My money is on Lukaku being more into Drake.

Firstly it would appear both from performances in the second half, and from comments by RK and his players post match – The boss wasn't happy (understandably) and told the players. He credited them with a bit of intelligence and delivered what is known by some as a shit sandwich, ie, you are intelligent enough to know (sugary bready goodness – that first half performance was turgid and not what's required (shit filling). However, I know we have the talent and personnel to put it right if you give it a good go and do what I know you can! (Sugary bready goodness).

Secondly, Koeman made a big call in subbing Ross, although he was wasteful I feel it was moving Bolasie to the left that gave us move balance, but that's just me – realistically it could have been Mirallas off too as he seemed to float in and out of the game. He made the sub early (not for the first time) and again, it worked!

The players responded – a good sign all round. They seem to have found a boss with tactics they are onboard with and who they respect. I also felt that they know if they are sub par, they will be hauled off, and not just as a cursory acknowledgement after 60 minutes, but post haste.

Big Rom scored three... and could have bagged four or five and also got his round of applause to show it was appreciated .

Idrissa 'Gana' Gueye was outstanding again. He is a steal, and was Man of the Match for me. (Although, to be fair, if a striker goes home with the match ball he normally picks up MotM too.)

The boss came out post game and talked openly about the first half not being good enough. He was right. No pedestrian football passed off as a phenomenal moment , stark Honesty , refreshing. Clearly the players feel the same. Baines and Rom both acknowledged it too.

Stekelenburg had another good game, and Williams was again a leader, talking the defence through the game. We needed that so badly last season too.

The day was capped with the news that we donated £200k to a really good cause, a classy manoeuvre from us and one more reason to love my club.

As a side note, it was an amazingly candid post-match interview from a very talented but clearly upset Duncan Watmore: I really felt for the lad, he is a real talent and clearly is very motivated. I hope he fulfils his potential as I think Sunderland will have a great player there.

I would like to finish by saying my very loud questioning of Bolasie seems to this far be misplaced. I said at the time I hope he succeeds at Everton but that I doubted he would. It appears (and who saw this coming??) that Koeman and Steve Walsh might know a bit more about togger than I do. So I am off to find some custard to go with my surprisingly sweet tasting humble pie. Keep playing like last night, Yannick, lad, and I will handwrite you my appology!

:)

I can just see 30,000 and more Everton fans singing those lyrics...

As for Drake, showing my age and initially thought who, then You tubed and found him. Recognise him and his music – that would be more Lukaku's style!

Dave (#2) You say Lukaku was poor for 70 minutes. His goals came in a spell between 60 and 71 minutes during which time he also hit the bar. The goalkeeper also made a very good save from his header in the first half, the only clear chance we created before half-time.

They were put on a plate for him last night, but he's there to score and miss them. He scores plenty of goals. At some point you've just got to accept that he succeeds where plenty fail.

With Koeman, we move the ball forward with purpose, we seem to be playing to Rom's strengths, and that can only be good for Everton.

Gana, Barry, Mirallas, Bolasie, Coleman, Baines, and both Ross and Deulofeu when on were always trying to play into Rom instead of looking for the sideways pass, it's refreshing to see.

9 shots, 6 on target, and 3 goals, plus one of Rom's off-target efforts smashed the bar.

Feed Rom and he will score.

God knows what is going on with Barkley – he needs to take whatever Geri is on. Not once did Deulofeu look to pass sideways and ran hard to get back and cover. Ross has the same ability so has no excuse so maybe it's just confidence and form.

Rom gets a hat-trick and it could have been five. Overall I thought he played well and I suggest that the flood gates may open and 30 goals is definitely on.

This is all down to Koeman, who is making Everton players more direct in their play. So instead of the ball usually going sideways under Martinez, the ball is getting played forward as soon as possible with players at pace.

What was pleasing though is for me in the second half you could see the work Dunc has been doing with him, holding it up and holding the defender off in the box.

I think last night could kick start a monster season for him, and therefore for us. Here's to hoping anyway.

Martin, instead of gestilating and pointing to where he wants the ball, he would have been better moving a lot more and trying to anticipate where the ball is going to go.

No need to apologise, Martin, just take it easy now and again, nobody is right all the time. I know that better than anyone.

Christmas must be a real blast at your house! You could take the shine out of moonlight and the luster off of gold. Cheer up FFS!

It seems to me he is a player who divides opinion like no other. Some of this of course is his perceived 'attitude', his less than unequivocal desire to remain at Everton. I understand why this upsets some but he's not the first footballer to want to play at the highest level.

However having not got the move he or his agent probably expected he doesn't seem to be sulking, he's not pulled a Lescott or a Tevez. He also seems quite popular with his team mates.

He also appears to get criticism for not being the player some want him to be. The nub of this is he is 6ft-3in and nearly 16st. He is not quick off the mark and when things are going badly he looks like he is lumbering.

I have sympathy; playing for Everton in the last two months of last season when the team had effectively given up. I've always thought the 'lazy' thing is unjustified but he undoubtedly needs to be more consistent to be a world class player.

But what he has got though his strength, very quick when he gets in his stride, and most importantly he scores goals and plenty of them. He also is very good in the air and I almost got to the end of this post without mentioning he was once described on this forum as the 'worst header of a ball of any Everton centre-forward'. Told you Groundhog Day!

When Geri is on the pitch, he puts the ball where Lukaku wants it – that is why he creates so many goals for him.

I think both players have what might be termed "attitude problems" but of different types.

Lukaku attracts criticism because when things aren't going well, he has tended to look pretty awful as a footballer and to have had a disrespectful attitude to the club, and perhaps more importantly to its supporters. However, when things do start to go right – which tends to involve getting just those passes which suit him – he is a very effective player, and immediately attracts a great deal of attention from the opposition, thus opening the game up still further. Effectively, the better Lukaku plays (and terrifies the opposition), the better the team is able to play.

Barkley is an entirely different matter. We say a couple of years ago when he was dumped by some forgotten England manager and insulted by him, despite possibly being the best player in an England shirt that night. Now he's been dumped again while a shockingly bad 11 has managed to lose to Iceland, and should have lost against Serbia. Poor Barkley thinks he ought to be an international, and thinks that England managers have an understanding of football and therefore if they say he's poor, he is. Martinez actually did a good job in building him up again, only for the braindead clogger now "in charge" of the worlds most under-performing team to do him down again.

I'd love to see Rom come back with a great attitude (fire the agent perhaps) and Barkley to get a really good going over from Koeman who re-establish his confidence and really gets the best out of him.

Barkley's best move would be to announce he is unavailable for England while this halfwit is in charge.

The 3 unused midfielders in Besic, Cleverley and Gibson will also be given chances to impress before they cemented in or shipped out in the future. We may end up with a squad of players that are almost unrecognisable from their showings when under Martinez.

Lukaku has finally delivered; after six months of worthlessness and disrespect, he has finally got his head right.

It's a start, but I want to see more than an 11-minute blast against a non-existent defence before I start proclaiming him a reformed character.

"Haters" – those who are not mug enough to be falling over themselves with gratitude that he stayed because nobody else made him an offer on the grounds that he hasn't done a tap since February.

If he gets his head down and starts to perform well on a regular basis, we will all be happy.

"Haters" ... What a ridiculous way to describe critics.

Having said that he was more effective than Ross, but then again I contributed as much as he did sat on my sofa.

Our first 8 fixtures give us a great chance of possibly being at the top of the table as the next 4 are very winnable.

Lukaku would not be in the side if he was 16 stone – he would be told to feck off and get rid quick if that was the case!

He is,I think you will find 94 kg = 14.8 approx stones.

Always better winning than drawing or losing, but we played a very poor side last night. December matches will show us all what we are really made of.

In my opinion, Barkley could (just like last night) play himself out of the side if he doesn't start doing the simple things.

Like you, I hope this run continues and, with Koeman totally in charge, we have a very good chance of having a good season.

Not to put too fine a point on it but how are you the arbiter of the truth? I was merely commenting upon the tone and tenor of your gloomy comments. It would appear there are differing opinions on the first half of the game and on individuals' performances. Follow me on this Dave, None are the "Truth," just opinions,

Really, the only opinion that matters is that of Ronald Koeman. I am betting that based upon what he saw, Rom is not getting dropped to the bench for a "poor first half" performance eh?

Did you think Lukaku had a good first half eh?

Must have been gritting them teeth in those 11 minutes though eh?

I know I know if he scores a hat-trick every game, you will be happy.

I guess neither of us have weighed him but you often get a choice of 'facts' on Google

Link

Lead us to the Champions' League.

Hitting a hat-trick last night doesn't automatically negate any and all criticism that came before, but it sure as shit seems to lead to a need for a certain type of poster to sermonise and seek to shame others:

 "You made out Lukaku acted like a wanker a while back? Well, now he's scored and I bet you can't stand it. I bet you hate it more than BA  used to hate being knocked out 'by surprise' and waking up all drowsy a while later to see that white haired old wanker Hannibal Smith (displaying a similar disregard for the perils of passive smoking as he does for the crippling anxiety caused by acute aviophobia) blowing absolutely shit-loads of stogie smoke all over the shop, before stooping down and saying "Psst. Plane's about to crash and Face Man forgot to bring the fucking parachutes because there was plenty of fanny about. Soz".

Well, I reckon that's nothing to how much you must be seething at seeing Romelu notch one, two, three (count 'em!) times, because you had the temerity to say something terrible about him once, like "take him off", "he wants to keep his trap shut him", or "Get a move on Lukaku! Grandpa's got Eddie all alone in his lab again". 

You should hang your head in shame, admit you were wrong about stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with what went on last night, retreat to a dark room for a few days self-flaggelation and then crawl back out on your stomach just in time to see Rom rub salt in the wounds by scoring again . Call yourself an Evertonian? My arse".

Does anyone truly believe there are people on here who would rather Lukaku permanently fire blanks than Everton pick up three points, just to gain the upper hand in a boring back and forth that's been done to death already? As if. 

There isn't a staunch "anti-Lukaku brigade" as some have claimed. There's maybe a 'react-to-Lukaku regiment' at most.

If he keeps banging goals in, nobody will be getting on his back about performances on the pitch and any negativity will be replaced with plaudits and praise. If he refrains from reiterating his desire to do one somewhere 'better' every time an international break comes around, then he won't get labelled a gobshite and it'll be a case 'good lad' rather than 'get over yourself, lad'.

I don't see the need to rail against that, for people to take resulting criticism of a player personally, or to try and rigidly pigeon hole others on the back of it. 

Dave Abrahams, on this very thread, quite rightly (and without any malicious intent) merely pointed out that Lukaku, like others, was poor in the first-half and upped his game considerably in the second. A point the player himself had no problem admitting in his post-match interview. Even Phil Neville managed to see it on Sky and he had his eyelids glued shut with shit loads of fake tan.

Yet, Dave is now getting jumped on by people trying to retroactively buff up a sub-par first 45 minutes into a barnstorming starter foreshadowing what Lukaku was about to produce in the next 45?

 'I've re-watched that first half again and I can now see that there was absolutely class centre forward play going on, with gazelle like off the ball movement and great Dusty Bin like feats of being a right dirty bastard to handle.' ?

 Bollocks. Either you're on the wind up or you've been watching 22 blurs on fucking Betamax.

Barkley's problem s are due purely to Mr Positive Martinez tactics and guidance. If we look at Sterling who I have never rated until this year he had a similar problem to Ross. In every game for Man City last year, he felt he needed to make an impact that meant more dribbling, more shooting for amazing goals and passes to set up goals for others on a plate. The result? He dribbled too far, lost the ball most of the time, shot when he should have passed and played long passes that were inaccurate. He looked crap and this play put himself under more pressure.

This year he has been told by Pep keep the ball, simple passes unless the player you are passing to is unmarked or in plenty of space. Vary your play go wide, come narrow, pass or shoot keep the defenders guessing and running.

Ross needs to do the same keep possession, pass when you pull players towards yourself, vary your play. He needs to be told he does not need to score more than a few goals a season but he is more useful in setting up assists for other players. Like he did in his first season under Mr Positive.

I don't think anyone believes that any Evertonian on this thread didnt punch the air when Rom buried the three goals last night. Even my reply to Darren about 'gritted teeth' was tongue in cheek, but you know about tongue in cheek.

My issue about the criticism is not about 'possessing a bigger gob/ looser lips'. I think that's fair enough. He like a lot of modern footballers is motivated by money and fame and loyalty is way down on the list. Such is the way of modern footballers and our memory of players who played because they loved the club is a bit of a distant memory. He quite obviously wanted a big move this summer and it didn't happen. But I can't lose to much sleep about that because I'm glad he is still an Everton player ever if it is only another year.

No my issue is the criticism he gets as a footballer. I don't think he is a world class forward but I think he is a very good one and he still can improve. His biggest weaknesses is that he is still inconsistent but having been watching Everton for well over 40 years he is in the best 5 centre forwards I've seen (Latchford, Sharp, Gray, Lineker) and all those I've mentioned where not as good at 23.

I don't think he was particularly effective in the first half last night, however he did look the most likely to score. However, in the second half he was sensational (unless of course you take the view Sunderland are shit and the goals were on a plate).

As I said, he seems to divide opinion.

Link

I would be really surprised if there were any outfield Premier League footballer that would weigh in at 16 stone – maybe even keepers.

I have a mucker who will find out for definite and report back.

To be honest, 15st or 16st – it doesn't really matter, he's a big unit who is never going to be quick off 10 yards – unlike say Vardy who's probably about 10st (could be 9st could be 11st).

I'd still back Rom over 200m.

The player that got pulled wasn't Rom eh? So guess RK wasn't as displeased at Rom as he was at the play from the midfield and the service to him, although Rom did make a few chances out of it.

Honestly, I am glad that you recognize the that there is a difference between truth and opinion. Keep illuminating us with your opinions but please don't condescend to call it the truth okay?

I don't disagree with too much you've said there and your earlier post wasn't really of the type I was having a pop at either.

It's more the unnecessary hurling of hot gravel, from the vantage point of the moral high ground, at anyone who has ever had a go at Lukaku in the past or elects to be less fulsome in their praise, that rubs me the wrong way.

Things like:

"I find some of the posts about Rom [and some of the comments about David Moyes] quite unsavoury and dishonourable". 

A statement made a mere couple of sentences after the same person pipes up with "I wouldn't like to be part of some of the families of people who post on here".
 
It's simply not cricket to criticise a centre forward lad, but it's fair play to slap a needless slight against a strangers family life in there.

"..if he scored 3 every week the haters would still moan that it should have been 5."

Do you not think they might eventually get bored and refrain from doing so through fear of looking an absolute fanny? 

Regardless, the first one to actually pipe up with something like that ('should have scored five') was the player himself.

Romelu Lukaku: full of self hate.

"Only on TW could anybody find negativity in a superb hat-trick – absolutely beyond belief and demeaning to both the club and the player"

Except nobody actually criticised him for the act of scoring a hat-trick. Some just happened to mention his movement was poor in the first half and improved significantly in the second. 

'Demeaning to the club' to mention or criticise something that was clear as day? In that case, the clubs dead accurate 'demeanedometer' must've self destructed after the debasing Koeman gave it in the dressing room at half time. 

"He was almost as good in the first half as the second"

Second half: Link

First half: Link

"I have taken a self imposed exile of all Rom related threads" ... Yeah, of course you have. Nothing to do with the fact that he has spent the past six months making complete nonsense of your undying devotion.

BTW I distinctly heard Ronald Koeman say that we were okay defensively but our forward players were not performing in the first half. Like Dave Abrahams and several players (including Lukaku himself). He wasn't just giving "an opinion", He was stating the blindingly obvious.

We have waited six months for the guy to come good, can't we just enjoy the moment?

I mentioned a few weeks ago that Deulofeu would be a good option in the Number 10 slot if Ross fails to produce. Deulofeu has a great eye for when to deliver those killing through balls. The next few weeks will be interesting.

I haven't had this much faith in an Everton manager since I can't remember when. The guy has the intelligence and the balls to deliver. I am brimming with optimism at the quality and direction of the players and staff. Gueye is a sensation, Bolasie is a constant threat, Stekelenburg is a rock, and I look forward to seeing positive contributions from Valencia.

I don't know how accurate they are but they'd suggest Lukaku is nowhere near 16 stone, unless hes put 3 stone on in a year. Ooo! Ricky Lambert – 14st 8lb... Ross Turnbull, Barnsley keeper – 6'4" and 15 stone...

Most pro-footballers it would appear are between 10 and 13 stone though, any heavier and you're generally not playing outside of defence. Andy Carroll 11 stone... Costa 12st 4lb... Kompany 13st 5lb... Toure 14st 2lb...

Jim, why would Koeman, take his only real centre-forward off, even if he was second to the ball on numerous occasions the first half?

Only an opinion Jim, but the truth his, Koeman, would have looked fucking ridiculous to have made such a move?

Simple question, Jim, did you think Lukaku had a good first half? Yes or no? You still haven't answered that one.

Some 'pundits' are even extrapolating to say that Henri could make Lukaku 'lethal'. Mmm... Lukaku is already lethal, more than 60 goals in about 120 games for us, with a barren spell likely to have ended anyway, especially under Koeman, with or without his involvement with Belgium.

Rom will bulldoze his way into the crowd. Vardy will stand there and look.

I watched your second half YouTube link of Lukaku's hat-trick and wondered where you would have got a link highlighting a first half of... no highlights.

I should have known better!!

I look forward to seeing him work for his goals along with the excellent finishes laid on a plate for him.

I don't know how many false dawns there have been but he better not let his attitude or focus slip.

Keep your mouth shut, Rom, and play for the team – you will be okay.

We won 3-0 away, he scores a hat-trick, and out come the moaners still decrying him. No wonder he wants to go somewhere else?

About the only strikers who don't have off-days are Messi and Ronaldo.

We have our most prolific goalscorer for 30 years – who, at just 23, is more than capable of surpassing Sharp, Latchford and Royle – so give the guy a break.

True, in the latter half of last season he was abject. But wait a minute, they all were.

Give him the service and put the ball where he wants it and he's a goal machine.

Of course he misses a few. Of course he loses the ball occasionally. Of course he's sometimes not where he ought to be. But bloody hell, he knows where the net is.

How many times has he, alone, won a game for us with his power, skill and determination...

Indeed, if he scores 29 goals in all competitions this season, he will surpass Latchford's total in his four-season run as top scorer (1974-75 to 1977-78), which was the best of the modern age.

Latchford was a lazy sod too. I know, I watched him play. But he was paid to score – and he earned his money!

We have a quite unique talent on our hands with Lukaku: a player who most clubs covet, who all clubs fear playing against and whose goals are essential to putting our club back on track in the league and beyond.

We consistently mock Kopites for their behaviour, but take a look at yourselves some of you. Talk about Bitter Blues...

To me, Rom is the best, most feared, striker in the Prem. The likes of Vardy and Kane are nowhere near as good. Could you imagine them scoring 25 goals during a season of management meltdown? Don't think so.

I know it's a fundamental human right to be a nark, but surely there are limits.

Why you – or anyone – seeks to quieten those who don't agree with them is beyond me. Lukaku is a great striker when he nets three goals and crap when he goes 13 games without scoring. What's to disagree about?

I think people moan about Lukaku because of what he has said about wanting to leave the club. My son was at the game on Monday night and he said Lukaku spent the first 60 or so minutes waving his arms around complaining about the lack of service he was receiving. Then he gets a hat-trick.

I must admit he has had me moaning about him on here but, when you look at his goalscoring record, it is unquestionably amazing. I'm sure we all just want to talk about the football after all this Stones, Lukaku, transfer window and Jim White stuff. I know I do. COYBs!

My perception is that Evertonians per se are no worse than any other supporters of other Clubs. Local boys can be whipping boys, opinions will always be divided and ToffeeWeb for me provides the platform for such diversity for views to be aired and debated.

Like in the first half (I think it was), Bolasie was clearly annoyed when he put a wonderful cross from the right, and no-one was at the far post to meet it. The next one, Rom was where he should have been in the first half, and 2-0! Confidence works both ways, for your own abilities and for your team-mates' abilities.

Also I see that Sunderland's Kone has now signed a 5-year contract. I hope he enjoys life in the Championship next season.

And what the hell is an "honest mistake"?

Help us please by giving examples of honest and dishonest mistakes so we narks can know which ones you will allow us to critique.

I really hope I'm wrong and he has a great season for US (not him) but I'm yet to be convinced he's as good as he thinks he is.

It's not about how he scores but moreover, the service he receives and the positions he gets himself into.

Their keeper made a blinding save in the first half and he hit the bar with an instinctive spin and shot in the 2nd, if a striker puts away 1 in 5 chances then he is very prolific.

His 3rd goal was a great finish after some brilliant build up play, he can't and all strikers can't score screamers every week but his finishing was clinical on Monday night.

Long may he get the service and bury 1 in 5 chances.

An honest mistake? That could be a whole discussion thread, hopefully avoiding too much repetition. In my mind, briefly, an honest mistake is what we might call a 'random error', as opposed to a 'systematic error'. A random error is the kind we all make under the best of intentions, due to 'random' influences. In contrast, a systematic error is due to a systemic underling problem, for example laziness or other bad attitude. If a player clearly had a bad attitude, then barrack away, they would deserve it, because we pay money. However, if a player is suffering a loss of form, despite their endeavours, and makes errors, then do not barrack, but cheer them on.

You say we're allowed to cite "laziness or other bad attitude. If a player clearly had a bad attitude, then barrack away, they would deserve it, because we pay money. " Very generous of you.

I feel really stupid typing this because I hope the answer is obvious... but did you not watch the Big Man through the second half of last season???

Given the revised Hobson's Choice you now present – systematic or random error – (having moved neatly away from the nonsense of 'honest' and 'dishonest' mistakes), surely the challenge for us simple observers becomes distinguishing between the two... which given your fuzzy parameters, comes down to an opinion that must, by your terms, be rendered as fact. Something Martin (another incessant moaner) keeps harping on about.

Both of you: please stop trying to control what other people post; instead, accept that people are presenting their opinions, just like you are.

And if your concern is not the voicing of bad opinion but the repetition of it, then please look at your own posting record, where incessant bitching at others, rather than offering the supportive assessments you advocate, seems to be the dominant theme.

Would that comment have applied to the last regime then? Dennis Lawrence for instance?

As for the tag team of the Abrahams boys, Tony did you actually tag in before entering the ring? Rules is rules boys. Answer to Dave's question is I did not think Rom had a bad first half. As for the Rom is the only striker comment to try to rebut my point about his not being pulled by RK, it is plain BS. First, Kone is there is he not? Second, seems RK already played a few others in the position before Rom got back and healthy. Please stop making up conclusions which ignore the actual "truth" boys.

But Koeman rates him and for me that's all that matters, Lukaku to be fair is as good a finisher as there is in the Premier League. Now some other strikers might work harder or have a better touch, but his goalscoring record for a 23-year-old is better than Rooney or Ronaldo or Suarez at that age.

I read a piece by Stan Collymore someone who knows about playing up front. He said that he was delighted Lukaku had stayed with Everton, and he wanted to see him bully defenders more this season. He says in his opinion Lukaku is the best striker in the Premier League.

The problem isn't the incessant whingeing about Lukaku, or even an opinion of Lukaku, it is the baseless opinion; nothing to do with fact or valid opinion. Lukaku had a terrible second half of the season last year as did Everton and virtually all of the players who turned out. The team got it's collective criticism, why single out Rom?

When I see real football people like Koeman extolling the virtues of Lukaku and doing everything that he could to keep him at the club, and this is mirrored by any other experts I've seen commenting on him, I feel my opinion of him has some validity. When I see a TW poster saying Lukaku's useless, lazy, has no first touch and no movement, then I see somebody who has a baseless opinion, to make that comment let alone to keep repeating it as fact.

Surely it is valid to raise that opinion? Do you not feel that as supporters we should look for the good rather than look for the bad as some do with Rom?

I see 6 points directly attributable to Rom so far this year, the change he made to the whole team at WBA and the total destruction job he did on Sunderland. By any measure he is a very good striker at an age where he's not even at his best. Defending him should be mandatory not a breach of etiquette.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/top-scorers

I can't comment on Dennis Lawrence, Joe, because I don't anything about how he worked and fitted in at the club and I'd always make allowances for his boss anyway. As an ex-player I would accept his opinion of players. Did he have a bad reputation?

I believe that Villa fans didn't rate Gana?

Peter, a lot of the criticism is current so current performance is valid, he's in a new set up now?

Now, I'm just imagining kids in the park. Who are they pretending to be? I bet Gana is there at the moment, but I also bet Lukaku is there a lot of the time as well. He's that type of player, makes Evertonian kids want to be like him. I reckon that's not a bad way to gauge the influence of a player on a team, hearing kids shout his name when they're playing footie.

Without being too over confident, as it is early days in the Koeman career, there are some very winnable games coming up which could cement the position in the league. The Sunderland game could easily have gone belly-up if Defoe had converted that early chance but after that they rarely had a sniff and a thoroughly professional second half won the day.

I am really impressed with the new boys and there is without doubt a new swagger about this squad that the new gaffer has contributed to.

Rom is a proven goalscorer with loud and irritating advisers and with a tendency to speak a bit too much himself. He can also be infuriating with his body language and his spells of incompetence. But I think he's formidable and that Koeman is going to get him firing consistently.

Some very good points, Michael. The problem with a few on here is that they believe theirs is the only valid opinion and if anyone disagrees with that "opinion" then they are wrong.

They seem more intent on showing everybody how clever they are rather than exchanging views and opinions with other Evertonians, and respecting those views and opinions.

Having said that, I know what it is like to see no wrong in a player and to resent any criticism of him. It's mad, though.

Lukaku joined his local team Rupel Boom at the age of five. After four seasons at Rupel Boom, Lukaku was discovered by scouts of Lierse SK, a Belgian Pro League team with an established youth academy. He played for Lierse from 2004 until 2006, scoring 121 goals in 68 games.

After Lierse were relegated from the Belgian Pro League, Anderlecht bought no fewer than 13 youth players from Lierse in the 2006 mid-season, one of whom was Lukaku. He played three more years as a youth player with Anderlecht, scoring 131 goals in 93 games.

Anderlecht

When Lukaku turned 16 on 13 May 2009, he signed a professional contract with Anderlecht lasting until 2012 and 11 days later, he made his Belgian First Division debut on 24 May 2009 in the championship playoff match against Standard Liège as a 69th-minute substitute for defender Víctor Bernárdez. Anderlecht lost the match 1–0.

Lukaku became a regular member of Anderlecht's first team during the 2009-10 season, scoring his first goal at senior level against Zulte Waregem in the 89th minute after coming on as substitute for Kanu on 28 August 2009.

"After scoring, I dived into a sea of happiness," he told Berend Scholten from UEFA.com. "You think you are flying and can take on the whole world."

He ended the season as the top goalscorer in the Pro League with 15 goals as Anderlecht won its 30th Belgian title. He also scored four goals during the club's run to the quarter-finals of the Europa League.

During the 2010-11 season, Lukaku scored 20 goals in all competitions but Anderlecht failed to retain their league title despite finishing top of the table during the regular season

Well I've never been coached by him mind but his job was specialist defensive coach under Martinez so you could make your mind up based on substantial indirect evidence.

Fuck all.

I don't give a flying fuck what Lukaku did when he was eight. I want him to start paying back the massive debt he owes to good Evertonians who deserve better

Six months is stretching it a bit seeing as three months were close season where it's a bit hard to score. Fair enough though he's had a drought but based on three years evidence it's a fair bet he will score 20+ goals this season.

Out of interest, what is the debt he owes to 'good Evertonians'? Are all Evertonians 'good'? Do any other players owe a debt? I mean he wasn't alone in stinking the place up in the last two months of the season.

Anybody????

Full betting is:-

10/11 Man City
5/1 Chelsea
5/1 Man Utd
11/1 Liverpool
14/1 Arsenal
16/1 Spurs

Leicester are 80/1 and West Ham are now 325/1.

I just hope that at any one time we have more optimists than pessimists, although I guess it might be the other way round if your team is in the relegation zone.

I bet you haters where fucking cursing him every time he scored a goal the other night.

God knows what's it's like supporting other football clubs but supporting Everton FC in the 21st century can be a minefield. You have to be very careful about what you write because, as soon as the submit button has been pressed, you might find yourself in a particular group without knowing it...

One Club, One Team, One set of supporters - many many views.

As for hating Lukaku, my middle son loves him and I was cursing the wife as she sent me to the emergency vets a couple of minutes before his first goal so I missed his hat-trick. Heard them on radio and was made up.

Seriously I'm wondering how those stats of Lukaku playing in 2.5 league games for us this season compare to his league performances for us since he joined us on loan. Can you help me out? No offence, I don't care how he did, I don't care how he did at Chelsea and I don't care how he did/does for Belgium – and you may find this hard to believe – but I simply care how he does for us. Cheers.

Give him 5 more games to see where he takes this.

I thought first 6 months last season he was excellent tried hard and was in great form, the season before he seemed I struggle with fitness concerns. I like him as a player but didn't realise his league record was that good – I've obviously underestimated just how good he's been. Cheers

That's where we differ on opinion (oh and also his lofted opinion of his ability that drew zero bids when he was pimped).

So let's give it 5 games and see eh? Koeman will sort this lazy boy out.

They say depression breeds on itself so all the Lukaku haters must have been well pissed off on Monday when you had to give grudging praise and then hark on about all those months since he scored.

Nothing about football is set in stone. Just think back to Martinez. 'First you said you loved him, then you said you loathed him.' Because the whole bloody 'feeling' thing is based on scoring/winning and misfiring/losing – simple as.

I'm glad he's still here. That's it.

I think that the players owe the fans a right to give 100% every game. If they do that and still get beat by a better team, then I think you can accept that.

If our 'feelings' are all dependent on winning or losing, how do you explain the large number of posters who insisted in writing off Howard, Hibbert Osman et al, however they played, and whether we won or lost ?

Personally, I believe Rom is good for another 200 goals in his career and I so hope most of them he scores for us!

I didn't ask you if you thought Lukaku had had a bad game; I asked you whether you thought Lukaku had had a good game. Third time now, Jim, what's your answer?

For someone who comes on here with smart arse threads, you don't seem able to answer a simple question. Do your best, Jimmy boy, eh.

The truth is that you thought Lukaku did okay first half, and that shows me that you're happy with our centre-forward consistently coming off second best.

Conclusions which ignore the actual truth, Jim? Which is what exactly?

You are joking aren't you?

I am hoping, however, that Koeman will rotate the back four so that Funes Mori gets some starting games – especially against those teams that have big guys up front or at corner kicks etc. Williams and Jags are not especially commanding in the air, although very experienced and effective tacklers.

Where is the Christmas party, lads – and do I have to bring anything? ;)

Come on, Graham, you know the close season is no excuse for not scoring goals! Next thing you'll be saying he shouldn't be expected to get goals on Xmas day because he's having his Xmas pud.

Pressing the Sunderland back four with our quality created the chances. The front players were switched around and probably told to work harder. Yes, Lukaku could have had six but another three on Saturday will do me fine.

I know time flies wen you are having fun, but it's September. Lukaku has been absolutely garbage since February... and not only has he been garbage, he has been letting his mouth run away with him. THAT is the difference between him and all the other players; whilst they know they have under-performed, he has been sending out "Come and get me" messages all over Europe – nobody came.

I know there was a close season gap; I also know Lukaku went to the Euros – he stunk them out too.

Phil Walling (#170),

A revealing post, clearly it choked you every time Everton won under Martinez, but don't make the mistake of judging others by your own twisted logic. Not everyone loved Martinez, some of us saw through him long before you and we didn't start every post with "according to my pie eating rellies".

The idea that Evertonians cursed every time Lukaku scored is about as dumb as it gets. Do those making this claim REALLY believe his critics would prefer the misery of watching him miss chance after chance squandering point after point ?

When somebody owes you something, you don't curse when they start to pay you back... you only curse them when they don't.

I completely understand your stance. Rom, when he's not banging in goals, is just maddening! He looks as if he can't be bothered, looks lazy, and you just want to pull out the Remmington 700 with your scope and snipe the fucker! ;0) Tounge-in-cheek comment there and not serious it has to be said...

But...

We need to just build on the hat-trick and be positive. When motivated, he's got SO much to offer.

The kid can royally piss you off. But man he can sure as hell excite you. With support from the fans, I think he can rise to an unplayable level.

It's time to forget, and move forward. If he starts looking uninterested, half-ass again, man the turrets. But that time is not now.

He had a bad run, the worst he had in his career, but it's fair enough in context of the whole team being abysmal in the final two months of the season. The manager was a busted flush and the team's performances reflected that.

You are being a little disingenuous with 'six months' and 'since February'. He played four games in March scoring four including his best ever performance vs Chelsea.

He was then injured during the summer where he did in fact score two goals, more than Kane, Vardy, Sturridge, Zlatan and Messi *

So what we are really talking about is two months. A poor two months, I agree, but two months none the same.

[* sarcasm alert]

I really hope he shoves my lack of belief in him up my arse but somehow I think he'll prove me right all along.

No doubt some have a bond with the fans but I doubt we'll ever see the type of genuine feeling that was developed between the likes of Bally and the fans. He was Mr Everton and I doubt we'll see the likes again.

"The concept that a modern professional footballer can be lazy is ridiculous"

Roberto Mancini on 'Modern Professional Footballer' Mario Balotelli:

"If some player does not work well, he does not deserve to be involved, and that applies to Mario as much as anyone else. What you do on the training pitch will benefit you in the game. Mario needs to work much harder"

Gary Monk on 'Modern Professional Footballer' Jonjo Shelvey:

"Jonjo has to wise up because that yellow card came from laziness and he has to be better than that"

Jose Mourinho on not one, not two, but eleven 'Modern Professional Footballers' in Chelsea shirts:

"In the first half, the whole team was lazy, and I did not like that"

Lionel Messi's arl grandad on 'Modern Professional Footballer' Lionel Messi:

"Triumphs are the greatest things there are, but the last three games he was bad. He was lazy.”

Anonymous 'Modern Professional Footballer' on Martin Mason's comments on the lack of laziness in the 'Modern Professional Footballer':

"Can't be arsed commenting on that, lad. Just spent three hours at work and want to get back home for some kip. That's if the housekeeper's made me bed, fluffed me pillow and closed the curtains. Otherwise, I'll have to call her and wait for her to come back round and finish her fucking job properly first"

He's got a sense of humour too.

http://www.Evertonfc.com/Evertontv/archive/2016/09/13/the-fans-are-magic

This whole thing seemed odd to me, because all those players are professionals, they get paid to perform, and it shouldn't be a choice to just down tools. Everton seemed to do similar under Martinez's final months. Yes, there were major management issues, but for players to just apparently down tools is just odd. They didn't turn up for the Derby at Anfield.

I don't recall this kind of thing happening in the past, which isn't to say it didn't. I can't imagine professionals in other disciplines doing that. In fact, never downing tools is, to me, a necessary mark of a professional.

I think footballers need very firm discipline, otherwise they (or some of them) seem willing to get away with murder (could have said blue murder). One of the good aspects of Koeman is his discipline.

For the pedants, modern players can't be consistently lazy and continue to be picked.

I don't disagree with you mate. I just don't understand why people protect him as he takes the piss out of them.

A long time ago, in a former life, I took a stunning looking girl to New York for the weekend. I knew I was punching above my weight so I decided to really push the boat out.

Anyway we go out for dinner to what looked like a quiet little French place. Another party had arrived around the same time as us. Within one minute of them sitting down, one of them, an evil looking woman, holds up he fork and shouts "Are you kidding me?" – apparently her fork wasn't quite sparkling enough.

I spent the rest of the evening having my less than pure thoughts interrupted by nitpicking Yanks who were making the lives of the staff pure hell. Anything that wasn't absolutely perfect was jumped on. "Wow," I said to my date, "These yanks take no prisoners." "Yes," she said, "but have you ever tasted food as good as this?"

Anyway, I spent the rest of my weekend being Romelu Lukaku (I went close, but I failed to score) but I grew to love these Americans and their take-no-shit approach to stuff they were paying for.

Back in London, still trying desperately hard to impress, I spent the last of my dosh in a posh ale house by Putney Bridge. What a contrast. Every time they were asked if everything was good, the people eating there were all smiles and thumbs up, but as soon as the waiter was gone they were bitching about just about everything... The food, unsurprisingly, was expensive and shite.

Times have changed; we don't accept shite quite as readily here now... but you don't have to stray from this thread to see the "mustn't grumble" mentality is still alive and kicking.

Lukaku has shown on more than one occasion that he can be a mighty force when he applies himself. He is a beast of a man, so please explain to me why some people not only accept his long periods of couldn't-give-a-fuck – they go to great lengths to excuse it?

I learned more from the cockneys than I did from the New Yorkers that weekend, Jaimie. I learned a life lesson: if you accept shite, they will serve it to you by the bucket load.

Take Mockers for example... I bet he still hasn't taken that dodgy calendar back and demanded a refund.

Looking up what a pedant is now, doesn't sound very nice.

I'd love to go to Melbourne mate, but if I'm being honest the first Tuesday in November, would be for-preferable to Xmas, after all the rubbing off Dave has done on me over the years!

I agree, don't accept shite. That's why I replied to your 'six months' post.

In the excellent interview with Deulofeu (mentioned by Laurie, #196), he says of Rom "When he's confident" he's unstoppable or something like it. Like many strikers, Rom's a confidence player and the two-month barren spell saw him at a low ebb in a team that was also at rock bottom.

Let's see how he does in terms of effort and output in a more confident team, a more demanding manager, and with better service. I hope for our sake that the answer is positive because we haven't got much alternative on the goalscoring front.

Laziness is a character flaw which in my opinion and that of his managers and coaches Rom just doesn't have. There is playing badly in a side that is playing badly, which I believe is what happened to Rom, and there is laziness which is what many mistake it for. Rom was no different in the first half and the second half Monday as I believe he was no different last season to what he is now the only difference to me was how the team got the ball to him. No manager would tolerate laziness in a player, if there'd been even a hint of truth in it he'd have been long gone.

I believe that the problem with Rom is that when he and the side gell he is capable of such amazing things that he just can't replicate it week in week out. Unrealistic expectations fill the gaps then. Everton's management and coaches and the vast majority of our fans rate him very highly, a few Everton fans don't. It's no competition.

How many lifes have you had, tell me ☺

On the competence side, I'm happy to see how Lukaku does, given his overall goal record. I recognise he's had a barren patch, but I'm expecting (partly because of Koeman's expertise as a manager) plenty of goals from him, the hat-trick the other night being a good start.

Professionalism is a combination of competence and attitude, so if both are sorted out I haven't got a problem. But if not, I simply vote with my feet. I'm not going to expend energy telling any player, via TW or elsewhere, that he's a lazy twat or whatever other criticism I might have. I'm happy to leave the discipline to the £6M/year guy who's job it is sort everything out.

Please don't let New Yorkers be your "life lesson"! They are some of the most obnoxious, arrogant, loud, crass people on the face of the earth. 😉

Using the fork analogy... Rom, for a period, was the proverbial "dirty fork". Now you can either bitch about the dirty fork, or you can just nonchalantly wipe the fucker down and use it, appreciating you have one hell of a nice utensil.

Just wipe Rom down and move on.

But I do hear you loud and clear – some will completely disregard he has been a filthy, arguably rolled-in-shit fork for a bit!

So, an entirely different claim to the one you made originally then?

Alan (@200): "Martin, not sure what a pedant is..."

Alan,

I wouldn't bother asking Martin, as he obviously doesn't know the meaning himself if he believes 'being pedantic' and 'proclaiming the entirety of a statement to be bollocks of elephantine proportions' are one and same. 

Worry not though. I'm happy to help out. 

Pedant?:

Link

Nah, I'll start again:

One way of summing up a pedant would be to say they're someone overly reliant on shite they happened to read somewhere at the expense of simple common sense. 

Say, for example, ohhhh I don't know...like the sort of person who comes across the term 'null-hypothesis' in a crappy 'My First Science for Meffs' textbook and wrongly believes it to be capable of application in any and all situations, thereby granting them free reign to rapid fire ill thought out brain farts (posing as self-annointed 'facts') all over the place, whilst simultaneously saving them the bother of ever having to back up anything they might say, ever again. 

Pedant that.

.

For me, Lukaku is not a target man, never has been, never will be. For anyone who doesn't know, a target man is a 7ft giant who you lump balls up to, for him to flick on for a 5ft dwarf to run onto and hopefully score. Lukaku is not one of these, yet we seem to constantly thump 100-mph passes to him, with his back to goal and when he mis controls, everyone starts moaning at him. I agree, his control should be better.

No, Lukaku is a forward who thrives on the service very similar to what he received on Monday night. He thrives on the crosses from which he scored two headers. Okay, he should have scored a header in the first half, but give the goalkeeper credit for a great save. If that had been Stekelenburg, we would have been drooling over it.

Lukaku thrives on the service he received for his third goal, passes down the middle, or down the channel, to run onto and score, similar to the one at West Ham last season, similar to the one against Arsenal when we won 3-1, similar to the one he scored against Chelsea in the cup. There are others, but off hand can't remember them all.

People moan when he points, and then starts waving his arms about. What do you think he is pointing at? He's not pointing at the centre-half saying "Oooh, they're a nice pair of boots, where did you buy them from?"

No, Lukaku likes to push up as far as he can on the opposition last line of defence, and then he's pointing, telling the likes of Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu, or whoever where he wants the pass to go, so he can run onto it and hopefully go and score. When that pass doesn't come, that's when he gets frustrated and waves his arms in frustration. Lukaku may get caught offside a lot because the pass is slow in coming (eventually) and he makes his run too early.

Given the right service, Lukaku will score tons of goals, like he already has done, by the way. Keep constantly aiming Exocet missile passes to him and he won't score many. Personally, I don't care if he sits on his arse for 85 minutes, providing he can get up and score one or two in the other 5 minutes.

He's the best goalscorer we've had in God knows how many years, and people want him gone, because of what? He wants to play in the Champions League. Nothing wrong with that. I was there on Monday night, and the abuse he took in the first half was pathetic. Didn't hear those same people when he was scoring a hat-trick in the second half.

Oh yes, first and second half. I've seen posts on here asking how he played in each half? A game lasts 90 minutes, not 45. His service, bar one cross in the first half, was non-existent. The second half he received plenty of service, and therefore did what he does best... Scored Fucking Goals!!!

So, until he's gone, I will be 100% behind Rom in every game he plays for us.

Usually, when I encounter a pedant, I end up saying, OK, you win, life's too short, I can't be arsed arguing. Or something equivalent, like fuck it.

First half, I thought he was held by the defender and did not get a decent shot. Second half, there were two great balls in from Barry and Gana, from one of which, Rom rolled his man and hit the crossbar. More of these and he will score plenty.

Ian Snodin said recently he wanted to see Romelu in the final third of the opponent's half finishing off attacks – not dropping deep away from the areas where he can do damage. Plainly there are many on this site who cannot see that or choose not to.

I don't disagree with either of you, but nor do I disagree with those who have murdered Lukaku for his attitude, effort and performances since February. The set-up certainly didn't suit Lukaku, but that does not let him off the hook for missing those chances or that lack of effort.

These Lukaku threads are taking exactly the same shape as all those Martinez threads where many people point-blank refused to see what was in front their eyes, choosing instead to stay in the trenches they had dug themselves and only come out after the occasional victory to say I TOLD YOU SO.

Jamie's right when he says it's time to move on, but those who have been acutely embarrassed by Lukaku making a complete mockery of their claims for so long, just can't seem to help themselves.

Coming on here asking "Where are all the 'haters' now?" might well make them think they have saved face, but it doesn't. Lukaku's performance on Monday makes them look even bigger mugs for accepting and excusing the shite he has served up for so long.

I know it will upset the "hater" haters, but I was jumping all round the place when he was scoring the other night. I will do so again next time he scores and the time after than. I want him to break records.

That said, if he returns to the sulking cant-be-arsed lump we had to suffer for the second half of last season, you're going to have to be pretty quick to get on here and criticise him before me... . Isn't that how it's supposed to be?

I've not included Barkley as personally I think he will be dropped for a few games, in order for him to sort himself out.

I think there's a lot of truth in what you say regarding the, "I told you so" brigade.

Not one to throw rocks in glass houses, I personally was ENTIRELY guilty of doing just that when I backed Roberto all the way up to the first weekend in April!

If you look past the self-confirmation bullshit – and again not to be holier than thou I was the High Priest in that regard in the not too distant past – I think you can come to the following conclusions:

Rob's spot on.

Rom CAN be a lazy shit at times and that shouldn't go unnoticed or without critique.

We have a silly talented striker if he keeps his head screwed on and gets the right service for his particular game.

He could be salesman of the year if he tried – but he is economic in his efforts.

His last goals? 3 vs poor old Sunderland, 2 versus Cyprus, 2 vs Ireland, 1 vs Switzerland . then you have to go all the way back to the FA Cup Quarterfinal.

"Lazy" – Lukaku fans hate that word. Everton fans see it is a word which answers questions as to why a player – who can make such a difference when he feels like it – looks like a League Two player when he doesn't.

Sorry... that's an insult to League Two players, I'm pretty sure they make the most of their talents and put all the effort in that they can in order to get out of that league and secure a proper living from the game.

I really do look forward to watching what I believe will be the most horrific of rude awakenings for the lad. The next time he decides to sit in Costa, playing Angry Birds on his phone, enjoying his Americano – his big Dutch area manager will be there ready to tip it over his head.

Koeman has allowed him his "summer" and his "getting up to fitness".

I don't think the term 'hater' is particularly useful but of course when a poster describes him as 'lazy big mouthed twat' or even in your own instance a 'sulking can't-be-arsed lump' you are not exactly giving the love.

You are also still trying to rewrite history. He was excellent in both February and March, scoring four goals in four games in March.

He was poor, along with most of the team, in the final ten games and managed to save his worst performance for Wembley. But he certainly wasn't poor 'since February', 'for six months' or in 'the second half of last season'. You accuse people of being easy on him, which may have some credibility but you are just doing the opposite, giving him over the top criticism.

You gave us the story of nitpicking perfectionist types demanding the best. My experience of such types is they tend to be right wankers.

The club dealt with him well, they desperately want to keep him and value him highly, for them, as with any reasonable person, his wanting to move was just part and parcel of the dealings with modern players and not a crime punishable by death.

Our future as a club and his as a player are very much intertwined.

The Null hypothesis is the hypothesis that must be falsified before an alternative hypothesis can be shown to be correct. Logically, Lukaku is not lazy and this is the null hypothesis which has to be disproven to show that he is. You first have to define lazy and differentiate between it and lacking in confidence or frustration and then prove that he is in fact lazy. Some say I can't use the null hypothesis but that is incorrect other than on a strictly statistical basis.

The pedant bit was to counter some internet cut and pastes which associated some players with laziness all of which were out of context. What I meant was that no player can be lazy and stay in a job, I'd say that Rom is first pick in the team?

For example the Jonjo Shelvey description wasn't that he was a lazy player. It was one incident in a televised game.

I'll be more careful using that word in future though as it upsets some.

Same for Lukaku, I'd suggest. All those goals he's scored for us are in the past; that barren couple of months are in the past. "You're only as good as your last game" (Sunderland), as they say. Now for the next game. Let's move on.

For a clearly intelligent man, you don't half apply some twisted logic.

Take that all forgiving calendar back, become a winner.

There is no I in wanker.

You sound like Donald Trump.

And you can keep blustering but my calendar is a lot more accurate than yours.

Surely nobody accepts substandard within the limits of their spending power and no Everton fan can ensure that Everton don't. It sounds good as a sound bite but that's all it is.

"People moan when he points, and then starts waving his arms about. What do you think he is pointing at? ...he's pointing, telling the likes of Barkley, Mirallas, Deulofeu, or whoever where he wants the pass to go, so he can run onto it and hopefully go and score. When that pass doesn't come, that's when he gets frustrated and waves his arms in frustration."

The thing is though Rob, he's often guilty of gesturing for the ball and then flailing his arms about in frustration when it fails to come even though he himself has been stood near motionless with a man mountain central defender or two right up in his mush.

The midfielder's we possess aren't magicians who can squeeze one of Dolly Parton's space hoppers through a tiny dormouse hole. A forward surely needs to work to find space and give the midfield a viable option to aim at?

It's like Miley Cyrus 'twerking' away as though she's the Basil Fawlty of Disney tarts, pointing to her basically bare arse and beckoning you on over to slide on in, when all the time she's stood right beside Billy Ray who, even if you somehow managed to miraculously sneak past his protective paternal blanket, is bound to put you right off your stroke by strumming Achy Breaky bastard Heart on his banjo. 

Move a bit love. Drift away from the dad/dirt box defender. Give me at least a slither of space to try and slip one into. Don't just stand there circling the circumference of a Wagon Wheel like you've been whacked in an invisible forcefield, with a watchful bodyguard stood so close you can both feel his breath and find out the answer to "Fuck, they still sell Brut?", then afterwards start going barmy, waving your fucking arms about to try and show how much you wanted it, when I've been forced to go for a more wide open option who at least made their arse available.

There was a televised cup game last season (I can't remember who against off the top of my head) where almost the entire half-time 'tactical analysis' revolved around Leatherface (Redknapp) and  All-face (Shearer) discussing Lukaku's lack of movement and failure to find space or show for the ball (It was the game where Redknapp made a crack about him covering more distance than Lukaku when he took his dog out for a crap). They played clips of him just walking a couple of steps forward, a couple of steps back, sticking his arm out to say 'over here', walking a couple of steps forward, throwing his arms up in dismay that the ball wasn't delivered to him, walking a couple of steps back, sticking his arm out again. Repeat. It went on for so long it became fucking comical.

That wasn't a one off. I've witnessed that routine many a time since he signed for us and it's in the midst of such moments when the arm waving and wide eyed accusatory stares signalling 'you should have passed to me' start to wind people up.

In typical Lukaku fashion, he went from one extreme to the other, scored in the second half and ended up scooping Man of the Match. (Waved his arms all over the place after it went in the net as well, he did).

In typical Redknapp/Shearer fashion, after slating him, they nearly got into a fist fight over who got to suck him off first at full time.

"The concept that a modern professional footballer can be lazy is ridiculous."

'They were my words. That's what I said, but i'm going to keep on wriggling and say that's not what I meant really when I said it. I'm going to change it now to 'a player can't be consistently lazy and expect be a first-choice pick for his side'.

"For example the Jonjo Shelvey description wasn't that he was a lazy player. It was one incident"

The 'description' (from his own manager) was that he opted for the lazy option, that he did something out of "laziness", that he was fucking lazy 'in that instance'. So, Shelvey..a modern professional footballer, let us not forget...is indeed capable of being lazy. Something you incorrectly claimed to be a ridiculous concept.

Every human being has the capacity to be lazy, Martin. Doesn't make a blind bit of difference if they have to run around a lot in their job and come home out of breath. You've got absolutely no way of knowing how many times the thought "fuck that for a game of soldiers" has flashed through their mind and caused their legs to slow down or stop completely.

You're simply doing that thing you do: deluding yourself into believing that any conclusion you yourself come to can be self decreed a 'FACT'.

The Shelvey incident doesn't support an accusation that he was lazy only that he took a lazy option in one incident. The accusation against Rom is that he is lazy not lazy sometimes.

No, seriously, I really understand what fact and opinion are. Hopefully that is the theme of most of my posts?

Dave, I did answer your question, read the post. I did think he had a good first half and a better second half. It is a 90+ minute game though so since points are not awarded for each half, who cares?

As for Tony, your tag team partner, commenting on Kone. I didn't say it would be a good idea to sub him in but that wasn't the point of the comment. I merely pointed out there were other options if RK thought Lukaku was so poor and that the claim there were no other strikers was in fact false BTW, who did sub in for Lukaku in the game? When he did, was Lukaku still playing striker?

pssst . . . it was Kone. Now, one in the ring at a time boys, play fair.

My understanding of a null hypothesis is that they normally apply when considering the likelihood of a fact being the case when you assume a certain hypothesis, the null hypothesis. You assume the null hypothesis, estimate the chance of the fact occurring given the null hypothesis, and reject the null hypothesis if the estimated chance is lower than some chosen criterion, but do not reject if the chance if higher. I'm not clear how this kind of approach is being used in the debates we have on TW.

Not only is Goodison Park the School of Science, so is TW obviously!

Come on, Jim, one in the ring at a time? Not for me sir, because I think that's what you talk out of, when you try and start talking soccer on ToffeeWeb!

The only other alternative is for him to sit deep and make his run, a bit like the final leg in a 4 x 100 relay. At least he couldn't be accused of being motionless or a lazy fucker.

Who'd be a football manager or coach!!

Anyone up for a 12-pack and some boxing gloves? We might be able to charge admission and fundraise some money for that poor Sunderland kid!

And if we do decide to just duke it out, don't draw Halligan! Dude will just mess you up. Paired against him I'd dive and take a 10 count before the first punch!

Rob Halligan, I agree with your target man comment. When Lukaku was at WBA, I saw him as a really powerful Ian Wright type with the potential to be top class.

I dare say one of them will now provide a link to a "wheeze" of some sort or other.

Lukaku has to be the most predictable and markable "runner" in the league. Embarrassing at times.

No, it isn't the relay where you run forward and hope the ball is played before you breach the line... over 30 years ago forwards worked on curving their runs – Ian Rush expertly so. Lineker, Ian Wright, Michael Owen.

Lukaku doesn't even aim to get in front of his marker on crossed balls – no feigning a dart to drop back.

His movement is schoolboy level... it's embarrassing. Every now and then, the other players will expose the defence enough to leave him unmarked (Belguim, Ireland); when it comes to intelligent movement, he lacks the desire and craft to do it.

So predictable and markable that defenders couldn't stop him scoring not far off a goal every two games for us.

Should I use bigger type or simpler words or maybe pictures for you? You continue to miss the point of the post which was a response to your misinterpretation of the previous ones. Stop making things up.

As for my knowledge of soccer... well, I am comfortable that talking out of a ring (whatever you meant by that?) is better than talking out of one's backside despite your apparent preference for doing so.

Many years ago, I came out of an away league cup match at Bury (2-2 draw after being 2-0 up, but we won the 2nd leg comfortably), and there's Pat Nevin, hobbling towards the team bus on crutches (he'd got a really bad injury in a league match at home to Forest).

We caught up with him, and chatted to him about the game, and football in general. And he said that if the team was out of form, then he'd seem to suffer more than most – they'd either give the ball to him in a bad position, or he'd be stuck out on the wing and never get it.

The bus was then sounding the horn, as they wanted to get going, and he politely declined our offer of a lift back to Chester, but I've always thought there was something in what he said –and you see players getting frustrated.

Anyway, thought I'd try and lighten the mood a bit. Roll on Saturday.

What exactly do you mean by your knowledge of soccer, Jim? Don't answer that question though, mate, save it for another thread, when you might just be able to come up with something remotely sensible!

He scores his majority of goals against lesser opposition also but yeah if you add up all those goals and divide appearances by them you could maybe try and kid people that he scores loads of his goals against the likes of Man Utd etc.

"He scores his majority of goals against lesser opposition also but yeah if you add up all those goals and divide appearances by them you could maybe try and kid people that he scores loads of his goals against the likes of Man Utd etc."

You're the one making things up – I never for one moment suggested he scores most of his goals against the likes of Man Utd etc!

Somebody else has previously gone over his goals and who he's scored against and that seemed to show he scores against the big clubs as well. I'm not going to trawl back for that info. Even if he does score most of his goals against lesser opposition, the question is, then, don't other strikers do the same? And, if not, why not if it's that easy!!

A goal pretty much every two games for us – now that's a stat I like! And you can't rub it out from the record books.

He is a flat track bully who disappears in big games or when a centre-half pays him close attention.

1. Rom has an average of a goal almost every two games. Do you want to acknowledge that that is a very good record, as a starting point?

2. Anybody would expect a striker to score fewer goals against the top half clubs. Is there anybody currently who doesn't, amongst strikers who average a goal every two games?

3. Naismith? I loved Naismith, I really did, but Naismith never had a scoring record as good as Rom.

4. And if your point about Naismith is solely that he scored better against top half clubs than Rom did, then can you give us the stats? And regardless, see 3. above.

The trouble with talking shite is that it's easily checked.

Rom scored 18 league goals last season 9 against sides in the top half of the table and 9 against teams in the bottom half.

In Cup games against PL opposition he scored 3 against top half sides and 1 against bottom half sides.

He scored a further 3 in the Cup against lower league sides.

As it happens of Naismiths record he scored 23 goals of which 11 were against top half teams.

Looks like the guy who sold Mockers his Calendar has been selling calculators too.

And the stats I cited, which you've ignored, were 56 in 122 (a slightly better average than your convenient stat). For the avoidance of doubt, that is not 1 in 2.

He nearly scored with all those sitters he missed, he nearly scored that penalty at Wembley... He nearly got the move he has been agitating for all summer.

Okay I made the last bit up...

If I was you, I wouldn't be arsed coming on these threads twisting the stats every which way you can if the best I could do is to be nearly right.

Darren, that stat is that stat. It isn't "twisted" as you try to make out. Unless you can tell us all how I "twisted" that stat. I know now you won't be telling us.

I referred to that stat as "not far off a goal every two games". So I never claimed 1 in 2. You tried to "twist" what I said by saying that I had claimed he'd scored 1 in 2. And anyone can see that I didn't claim that.

Interesting, in fact, checking the official EFC website - they have him down for a grand total of 64 goals in 125 games for us. Even better than I was originally suggesting (but still not 1 in 2, you understand). Are you going to stick or "twist"?

I could put this whole thread on Private Eye's Pedants Corner, but I'd fall asleep in the process.

I watched him once on a bleak winters day up and down the wing for the Reserves v Nottm Forest, playing as he always did with skill and endeavour. He didn't let his very slight frame put him from getting stuck in and having a go.

I think he went to Tranmere after Everton, deserved better off Howard, but one man's meat is another man's poison.

Paul T

You don't need stats, you understand the game. The only stat you will need is how many this season.

BTW He looked more than a tad interested on Monday, maybe Koeman can get him focused... I'd only give you eights now