A delegation from Everton made the first of two stadium-related site visits today as they toured Bramley-Moore Dock with Liverpool Mayor Joe Anderson and architect Dan Meis.
Major shareholder Farhad Moshiri and Chairman Bill Kenwright were in attendance along with the club's Chief Executive Robert Elstone and Deputy CEO Denise Barrett-Baxendale to assess the suitability of the site for a new purpose-built ground in Liverpool's north docks area.
Another brownfield location at Stonebridge Cross off the East Lancs Rd in Croxteth is also under consideration as Everton's hierarchy once again explore the option of leaving Goodison Park.
Owned by Peel Group, who have plans to redevelop large swathes of the city's derelict waterfront north of the city centre, Bramley-Moore Dock offers the club a second chance to build what could be an iconic stadium on the banks of the Mersey, 12 years after their Kings Dock scheme collapsed.
As the option most favoured by supporters and Mayor Anderson, there is keen interest from Evertonians in today's visit and what logistics would be involved in preparing the dock site for construction. Unlike the Trafalgar Dock site next door, Bramley-Moore Dock would almost certainly have to be filled in to create the footprint necessary.
Meis and his US-based architectural firm are said to be drawing up potential designs for the stadium, with the assumption being that the location would heavily influence the character and structural considerations.
The Everton delegation pictured at Bramley-Moore DockImage © Liverpool Echo/Trinity Mirror
The Liverpool Echo are carrying more exclusive photographs of the delegation's visit.
Reader Comments (70)
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1 Posted 14/10/2016 at 16:59:42
2 Posted 14/10/2016 at 17:02:01
Otherwise, you're sound.
3 Posted 14/10/2016 at 17:03:17
5 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:02:21
It's got to be the docks, it will certainly regenerate that part of the waterfront and the Titanic Hotel will be quids in every other weekend.
Please please let this happen, the possibilities are endless:- summer concerts / ferry to and from the game (how cool is that) yet another tourist attraction on our famous waterfront / hotels / bars etc.
However, we are talking about Everton... Let's wait and see.
6 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:03:46
7 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:05:56
The bowl type construction stadium loses the twelfth man. A bigger AAMI Park stadium, Melbourne.
8 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:13:54
Keep Anfield and its' bizarre appearance. We are about to turn the sky above Liverpool blue and it will be the only stadium in Merseyside worth looking at and worth playing in. NSNO
9 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:36:45
I don't know what sort of work is involved in filling in a dock to create a foundation for a stadium. Maybe it is easier than having to dig down and create it that way. It would be interesting to get thoughts of people who are in the construction business.
10 Posted 14/10/2016 at 18:57:51
So even their regular charter-flights from Norway won't keep them ahead if EFC gets rolling in the coming years! I'd go for a 75k-seater stadium!
12 Posted 14/10/2016 at 19:07:51
13 Posted 14/10/2016 at 19:27:56
14 Posted 14/10/2016 at 19:29:25
While I would love the Bramley-Moore option, Stonebridge looks a bit more realistic.
15 Posted 14/10/2016 at 19:40:41
16 Posted 14/10/2016 at 20:04:08
17 Posted 14/10/2016 at 20:11:40
18 Posted 14/10/2016 at 20:18:55
He had a chat with the photographer: Not much information on the stadium was shared, except Riquelme is apparently at Finch Farm, and the Arteta money is thought to be in a waterproof bag at the bottom of the Bramley-Moore dock, which may have been the real purpose of the visit.
19 Posted 14/10/2016 at 20:47:40
20 Posted 14/10/2016 at 20:53:57
There's nothing on the official Everton website. So respect to the "Moshiri administration" for not making a big event out of it.
21 Posted 14/10/2016 at 21:02:42
22 Posted 14/10/2016 at 21:15:13
I have to disagree, respectively, with you. I can't believe this event was 'accidentally' leaked to the media, nationally or locally. It just reeks of a Kenwright-inspired PR opportunity.
If all the interested parties, local politicians, the Everton board of directors, and the USA-based architect, had simply decided to jump on a coach and spend an hour 'on site', who would have been the wiser?
I'm just fearful that (and I hope I'm wrong) if this project fails to come to fruition, we'll be left with egg on our faces once again.
The hopes and aspirations of our fantastic fanbase deserve better. I simply don't trust Kenwright to bring home the bacon, in view of his previous track record. Hopefully Moshiri and his handpicked team will overide the old brigade of Elstone, Woods et al.
Either way, a public announcement needs to be made in the very near future to placate the fears and reinforce the hopes of an expectant fanbase.
23 Posted 14/10/2016 at 22:31:19
There is no way that they could just be happy for us without jealousy getting the better of them again, they have done it before and will surely do it again.
We are fast becoming a threat to their self-appointed 'Number 1 club on Merseyside' status on the field, This will make them feel their grip loosen even further off it.
24 Posted 14/10/2016 at 22:48:18
This madness. The World Heritage Site should be left alone. A stadium here must be resisted at all costs.
25 Posted 14/10/2016 at 23:09:39
Traffic can be eased. Weather at the docks equals weather at Croxteth. Why should night games be any more difficult to get to than in the day? Non-matchdays being desolate in the area is not an issue.
26 Posted 14/10/2016 at 23:16:56
Whatever the transport problems, with a development the size of this, including the whole Peel plans, transport solutions will already be in the mix.
27 Posted 14/10/2016 at 23:18:01
"So, what about this wise-guy Klopp?"
And Joe replying: "Don't worry, Godfather, he will sleep with the fishes..."!
28 Posted 14/10/2016 at 23:22:56
To add to your list, a stadium close to the docks will due to it's close proximity to the City Centre attract investment and all sorts of businesses, whereas Croxteth might just turn into a Stadium with very little around and about it.
Steve (#22), Nobody at the club has publicly uttered a word to the press, perhaps Andy Hunter just has good contacts either at the club, the Council chambers or some other source close to the action. It's not the usual method of Bill or his cohorts and the Liverpool Echo must be out of favour because even they only obtained the photographs from some distance away from the assembled people.
It was probably just a fact-finding mission with the important decision makers wanting to take a proper look at the site(s) and we just don't know as yet what the proposals or pitfalls are with either site. It certainly didn't look like a mere PR exercise or did I miss some gushing statement from our dear leader?
29 Posted 14/10/2016 at 23:59:17
"On non-matchdays the area will be desolate"
The docklands are up for redevelopment.
30 Posted 15/10/2016 at 00:27:06
The cost of filling in the dock will be astronomical and having to buy the site tells me it won't happen. It will take more than a billionaire to finance it. Croxteth is more realistic.
Don't build your hopes about the dock and you won't be pissed off when it falls through.
31 Posted 15/10/2016 at 01:21:40
So all of the top brass have visited a fantastic site with a view to building us a dream stadium – all but reviving the Kings Dock opportunity we thought had slipped through our fingers. Amazing.
This is Everton though, and Kenwright and Elstone are still there. Why do I have a nagging feeling we'll end up in Croxteth (or worse) with a statement that "we tried for the docks but they were unsuitable"?
32 Posted 15/10/2016 at 01:51:21
Bill, Farhad and Joe can we please create an iconic and breathtaking stadium that, once and for all, puts our illegitimate cousins in the shade where they truly belong.
33 Posted 15/10/2016 at 04:19:01
34 Posted 15/10/2016 at 05:29:00
A simple test is to ask a Kopite who lives in the City what they they think of the proposal they don't like it at all because they can see the potential revenue and status such a development would give Everton.
With the greatest of respect to those moaning about traffic links who may live outside the City, you chose to support Everton, a club that originated from an inner-city area of Liverpool. I am afraid the move is too important for motorway access to be the overriding factor in siting of a new stadium. When there is something iconic to visit, it doesn't deter people from visiting such locations. What we need desperately is an iconic stadium in the heart of the city to help revive our fortunes for the longer term.
35 Posted 15/10/2016 at 06:04:50
The jealous counter-views of a redshite biased council however could elongate and damage the process. I will, as a dyed-in-the-wool conspiracy theorist, be interested to see how that develops.
The planning infrastructure costs will have an impact on time and cost, but are usually spread throughout all the beneficiaries of the process, including the council with civic responsibilities and aspirations of their own.
The engineering aspects of the project will be a major challenge in themselves. Building close to water could create problems of uplift pressure where the weight of a buildings superstructure is used to counter the tendency of water pressure to push upwards. Stadiums, with their relatively light weight construction to volume ratio could be a major issue. Do any ToffeeWebbers know of the ground conditions and potential issues in this?
Bottom line is the combination of marketing, long term image value, and the money to be made out of the development process in the area would suggest to me the docks will be the final choice...
36 Posted 15/10/2016 at 06:46:57
37 Posted 15/10/2016 at 07:08:56
Please don't compromise. Achieve these things and I vote for a statue of Moshiri alongside our other Everton heroes.
38 Posted 15/10/2016 at 07:55:09
I'm from Everton and we must have the worst road links going. Anyone from the town walks to Goodison or jumps a taxi. Anyone from out of town parks wherever and walks the rest of the way. Are we now wanting some magical ground that has parking for thousands of cars and we can do babies etc a la American Football?
Location is everything if we are planning a new stadium. Anywhere in the town is imperative. Road access is a load of bollocks!
39 Posted 15/10/2016 at 08:11:04
40 Posted 15/10/2016 at 08:47:11
My god, are people so short-sighted they don't see that this area is at some point in the near future going to explode into THE biggest regeneration we have seen since L1?
And then I read Brent's comment (#39): "Most of us would just float to the new stadium on cloud nine" ... and smiled.
41 Posted 15/10/2016 at 08:52:28
This is quite practical as United Utilities have just completed the building of a new waste water treatment at the neighbouring Wellington Dock and that required the dock to be filled in. The project to fill the dock and build the plant and make it operational took about 3.5 years and cost circa £200m.
A decision around the new year would seem to set a date of us moving in for the start of the 2020 season.
42 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:03:25
This site works on so many levels and they far out weigh any negative reasons for moving there. Make it happen, Mr Moshiri.
43 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:17:51
As for the Docks, it makes sense as most people could get public transport and I'm sure some bus stops will be planned as part of the package.
44 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:25:50
45 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:26:48
Fair enough that the docklands will be the more expensive option but Moshiri will be looking long-term and I think will be definitely going for a waterfront stadium. When especially (I know it's only rumours) he's supposedly got other investors lined up. It's a no-brainer with me.
I really think there should be a announcement in the very near future to put us at ease.
46 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:30:54
I also think that the whole Peel development will have transport needs so together us and Peel are probably able to solve these.
47 Posted 15/10/2016 at 09:56:14
48 Posted 15/10/2016 at 10:07:42
"I have a cunning plan" (in a Baldrick voice!!)
49 Posted 15/10/2016 at 10:20:55
50 Posted 15/10/2016 at 10:50:04
Anyone who advocates building a new stadium in Croxteth hasn't really considered the valuation of the club once this project is complete. Not only will our new ground become an iconic part of one the most famous waterfronts in the world, the exposure and publicity this will generate could put us back on a par with the likes of Arsenal and Spurs (their new Stadium will make Anfield look a Championship ground.)
There is still a massive amount of work to do before we can get too excited, but this is the first time in a generation we have someone at the helm who can deliver, rather than a dreamer who was in hock with people who had no interest in the club.
Once the diggers move in, we can all start putting those red tourists of "big new stand Utd" back in their place as the second club in this city. I for one cannot fucking wait to rub their noses in it at every opportunity!
51 Posted 15/10/2016 at 11:07:01
Build it at Croxteth and the reverse might happen!
52 Posted 15/10/2016 at 11:46:44
53 Posted 15/10/2016 at 11:47:26
I also live on the East Coast and have been thinking about this issue. Whether it's Croxteth or Docks, it's different to the way you do it now.
If it's the docks, then use a Merseyrail station of your choice and make your way to Sandhills station. If it's Croxteth, just adjacent to the motorway, I think it would provide it's own motorway queueing and parking problems. Whatever, we can just change our routine. We'll manage!
54 Posted 15/10/2016 at 12:12:54
55 Posted 15/10/2016 at 12:32:03
56 Posted 15/10/2016 at 13:30:21
Everton Football Club to build iconic waterfront stadium In Liverpool.
It will make the wait so worthwhile.
57 Posted 15/10/2016 at 13:49:42
What is important is that it is part of a massive re-development of that part of the docks. I was down there a few weeks ago and at the moment it looks desolate and very unloved. But if the whole area from the Malmaison to the stadium is developed with a walkway on the river front from the Liver buildings to our new stadium with shops, cafes, hotels etc on the way it would be amazing, attracting loads of positive publicity. If it's stuck there on its own then it would be a wasted opportunity for the city and the club.
58 Posted 15/10/2016 at 14:42:41
Anyone who's worried about walking to the ground may as well stay away. Wimps.
60 Posted 15/10/2016 at 19:31:44
61 Posted 15/10/2016 at 20:01:46
You can still see inside some of the old dock including the rise and fall of the tide virtually under the Liver Building if you go on the Mersey Tunnel Tour. All it takes is money and the determination to build it. You can bet that Peel Holdings will want to cash in on improving the area.
63 Posted 16/10/2016 at 18:03:50
Don't you mean Jim White?
64 Posted 16/10/2016 at 20:02:50
And for those speaking about Moshiri like he's the new messiah just bear in mind that he's yet to put his hand in his pocket in the 10 months since he arrived at the club. Despite all the talk of £100m transfer budgets we never spent a bean until we sold Stones. I won't hold my breath on the stadium issue let alone its location.
Colin #5 since when has Croxteth not been within the city boundaries?? Has it moved???
65 Posted 16/10/2016 at 20:42:42
66 Posted 16/10/2016 at 21:08:45
"With Kenwright, Elstone and Fat Joe at the helm what could possibly go wrong??!!"
I continue to have night and day mares with Kenwright and Elsone being involved with anything to do with the club's future. I must admit that I thought Moshiri would have been savvy enough to have ousted both at the earliest opportunity. Perhaps he's giving them enough of the proverbial rope.
67 Posted 17/10/2016 at 01:09:57
Not for transfers, perhaps... but you must realise there's a good reason for the sell-to-buy which seems to bear repeating:
In order to sign players we must show adequate income (not including TV revenue) under the FFP rules and as we know we dont get much actual income outside TV money.
Player sale revenue is classed as income so we had £47½M to show FFP and therefore could go out and buy players and increase the wage bill (which is what FFP actually controls, its got nothing to do with buying players). – Andy Boyer
And what about these known outgoings:
- Compensation to Southampton for Ronald Koeman – £5M;
- Compensation to Leicester City for Steve Walsh – £2M;
- Buying out Roberto Martinez's contract – £10M
- New salaries for the Koeman Brothers and Walsh ~ £7M/year
- Fees for engaging top architects to plan the new stadium... ??
And they're just the ones we know about...
£30M... £40M... £50M...
Are you quite sure Moshiri and his money have done nothing to enable some or all of these rather cost-intensive transactions? Not to mention the ever-increasing salary costs of players being given new contracts.
I don't know the full FFP rules, and some of these sums may have to go through the club's books. But I would expect that the only way we could afford to fund a number of the very substantial changes over the last 10 months is through contributions from Farhad Moshiri. That he's not been bragging about them does not mean he isn't the very substantial financial power behind them.
68 Posted 17/10/2016 at 03:51:18
Originally (and I stand to be corrected) FFP was a scheme contrived by UEFA to limit the opportunities for clubs with rich benefactors to stitch up their domestic campaigns and qualify for Europe. Most clubs earn more in the CL compared to their domestic leagues, even though the CL money pot is partially dictated by how much money the country of the club pays for TV rights (one reason why English clubs frequently top the money tree without winning the tournament).
Some clubs were trying to get around this by using "allowable costs" in their accounts to do with development. Man City tried (and failed) to price their academy and associated infrastructure development around the stadium at a billion pounds. The RS tried (and succeeded) in booking over £100m in the failed Stanley Park Stadium as costs.
If I understand this correctly, the version of FFP that applies to Football League clubs isn't UEFA-mandated (after all the penalties of exclusion from UEFA competition would hardly apply). The rationale for this was that there was a genuine fear that clubs were being mismanaged and needed the regulations in place. The trickle down effect of the Prem Money Tree sees lower clubs getting sizeable transfer fees, and also paying big bungs for and to players / agents.
69 Posted 17/10/2016 at 06:04:09
70 Posted 17/10/2016 at 09:25:44
This tells me we would have still been stuck with Roberto, sinking like a stone, instead of talking about landfilling the water, to create a brand new stadium!
71 Posted 17/10/2016 at 18:40:27
Peel has had planning permission of one sort or another for almost 10 years for this north docks area (Birkenhead too by the way) and nothing has happened. If a stadium were to be built it could trigger development and for that reason the club would be in a good position to drive a hard bargain.
Whatever is done there will need to be extensive excavations and all of that will need to be left on site. That fills the dock, at least partly.
Kevin Tully, the road changes upgrade an existing four-lane single carriageway to a four-lane dual carriageway. All the junctions were rebuilt years ago and this is unlikely to ease traffic flows much. The plans for the dock road are to narrow it to one lane in either direction for significant parts of its length. The overall result will be to reduce capacity on those two roads taken together.
I travelled for 18 years out of the dock exit north. In the years since the Arena was built, it was often the case that traffic queued back down the tunnel branch and in the main tunnel towards Birkenhead when there was a sell-out concert at the 11,000 capacity venue. That's why a night game would be a nightmare, more so than an afternoon game but not much more so I'd guess.
Everton and district is not the easiest to navigate to get out of town. Problem is, if you are going east, you will have to go into the area and then out. The queues on Everton Valley and Walton Lane will be marvels to behold.
I currently take a train into town from Kirkdale after the game and get a Southport train from Central or Moorfields. I may not get a seat but I can get on. This is not the case at Bankhall and sometimes not so at Sandhills. I have always been astonished that Merseyrail don't make all services post-game six carriages.
I also cannot understand why it's often the case that one of the tunnels is often closed after evening games. Plan the maintenance around the demand, I'd say.
Friends on the Wirral are really looking forward to the new challenges that will be presented on matchdays/nights when the loop line closes after Christmas. I shall be renting out spare rooms for those who would like to get to bed before midnight, just 2 minutes from a reliable train service.
72 Posted 17/10/2016 at 20:48:27
"Well let's see, Peel Holdings want £30 million at least, but we can have Croxteth for nowt. Croxteth it is then, I'm sure Bill can convince the fans it's the best choice."
Please, lads and lasses, if they try to stick us with Croxteth, tell them in no uncertain terms to fucking shove it, we'll stay where we are.
73 Posted 17/10/2016 at 21:20:41
Croxteth oval, is the flaccid choice.
74 Posted 18/10/2016 at 02:06:17
I'm sure that Liverpool council can't possibly refuse us seeing as they practically begged the red scum to build a stadium there.
And now that the Royal Liver Building will be given to the Red Shite for them to turn it into a LFC museum "near the docks," then let's just ask you know just to see, even if we don't want it, headlines in the Echo:
'Everton want to build a stadium in Stanley Park'
Go on, Bill, ask them... I fucking dare you.