Ronald Koeman ruffled Evertonian feathers yesterday in an interview with Belgian newspaper Het Laatste Nieuws in which he expressed his belief that the striker's horizons extend beyond Everton and that he could be good enough to play for Barcelona.
Inevitably and typically, many media outlets have seized upon that as an opportunity to claim that Lukaku is for sale in the next window and that clubs like Arsenal and Chelsea are "on high alert".
Closer to home, however, many supporters have been upset by what they see as Koeman's apparent denigration of Everton and questioned why the Dutchman made the comments when his aim should be to deliver Lukaku's ambitions through success at Goodison Park.
Moshiri contacted White again today to ease supporters' concerns, however, saying that it was Koeman's way of building the Belgian international's confidence.
“It has been taken out of context,” Moshiri told White.
“Ronald Koeman said he believes Romelu will develop into one of the best strikers in the world in the next two to three years and wouldn't be out of place at his old club, Barcelona.
“It is just player-coach talk.”
Former Everton player, Leon Osman, had a similar take in his own chat with talkSPORT today. He agreed that what Koeman said won't have gone down well with Everton fans but suggested it might have been a means of motivating Lukaku.
"I'm thinking maybe it was said to try and get the best out of [Romelu] now, with the chance that if you show your potential now, if you play well, in the future you can be playing for Barcelona," Osman told Alan Brazil.
"By doing that he's obviously got to be playing well for Everton in the meantime."
Reader Comments (149)
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1 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:30:31
(I'm not holding my breath!)
2 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:32:48
You said recently, ‘I think the job of the owner and the Chairman is simply to hire and fire the manager'. Well, Messrs Moshiri and Kenwright you've done the hiring, now do the honest thing and do the firing.
I have supported Everton through thick and thin for nearly 75 years and have never been so disgusted with any manager of the club.
3 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:33:03
All this coming hot on the heels of that embarrassment last Saturday. You couldn't make it up. I can't wait for the next instalment.
4 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:35:17
Always the rush to judgement. Everything is either a tragedy or outrageous or alternatively a major triumph and elation abounds.
Where's the balance?
Too much emotional incontinence, either too high or too low, never in the middle.
5 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:35:34
Now the previously silent chairman of Everton can't keep off the place having been bitten by the fame bug.
Utter circus, and this could go tits up quickly.
Out of context. My Arse.
And that's a link to Osman chatting bubbles on the station this morning, the ungrateful little snake.
6 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:35:53
Our chairman looks the "speak softly but carry a big stick" type rather than a "loudmouth bully" but the message is still the same and I think the manager has been firmly put in his place.
7 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:38:53
He can't shoot Koeman down in public so has to be seen to back him. I suspect there'll be a chat in-house to ensure Koeman manages these comments better in future.
8 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:39:51
I've only done 63 years and my reaction is not so harsh. I can't even begin to speculate as to the reasons for his comments. He may tell us, he may not. Let's wait and see.
9 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:48:44
10 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:53:02
11 Posted 10/11/2016 at 15:57:48
If he has been hauled over the coals by Moshiri for the printed version of his thoughts and he has explained what he really meant, no problem. I bet he makes more sense than McClaren did in Holland.
12 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:02:58
But I am perplexed why Moshiri is going through White, and not the club website, to say this. I can see the value of talking through White on other matters, as it might help to raise our profile, but I can't see the value of it here – lazy something or other?
At least he didn't say that Koeman could one day develop into one of the best managers in the world and could end up with Barca!
13 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:03:43
Yes, certainly has been the tone on here I must say (that is to say, I don't say).
Laughing stock club.
14 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:11:50
Seems like we get rid of one dickhead only to be replaced with another. Need to wise up, Ronald – you are going the right way to pissing the fans off and you've only been with us for 5 minutes...
15 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:40:32
16 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:41:57
17 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:49:09
18 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:51:58
How can we now move forward with Koeman at the helm of the project after he has totally undermined us in public!
Koeman is far too open and honest for my liking – his arrogance is unbelievable!
He'd better be getting dragged in to Moshiri's office to explain his comment's and be reminded that 'we' 'us' EVERTON are the ONLY club that matter and that he should never undermine this great club again!
19 Posted 10/11/2016 at 16:56:02
Stop waving your fecking arms about like a spoilt child! Try tackling defending for once, it's part of the game when the opposition has the ball!
Be prepared to help others!!! Stop being so predictable while playing, develop your offensive movement in the last third! Anticipation within the 18-yard box does help!
Press defenders not stand still or jog towards them- high press means work hard!!! Escape man markers with intelligent movement not just stand still waving your arms about!! Be willing to chase down forward passes delivered behind opposing defenders!!
Show bravery in potential goal scoring areas! Link with supporting players using one- and two- touch! Try winning some 1v1physical battles, it does help! Show the supporters you care by giving100% commitment and stop opening your fecking trap about leaving our club.
You should count yourself blessed just by putting on our club crest... just remember what it means and represents!!!!
Just a few areas! where you need to improve for our great club before you become a team player and also before anyone else would take a chance on you!
There are many more specific position attributes you need to improve on. Start working on these first; maybe then you can start believing you could be atop player?
20 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:08:58
Personally, I'm having a hard time warming to Ronald Koeman. I believe he's going to have a big job on his hands getting a lot of the Everton support back on side.
21 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:11:00
Koeman states that one day Rom could realise his full potential and play on the biggest stage. The only way this could be disrespecting Everton is if we were really likely to get Champions League football this season, and could offer Lukaku the stage he aspires to. I don't think we will get top 4 ,so what's the big deal?
Are people so daft that they want the manager to fantasize that we are on a par with Barca?
So much over emotive nonsense spouted on here. Some of the same people were loving the straight talking at press conferences a few weeks ago.
If Ron gets us back to winning ways, and gets the best out of Rom then great. If not he will get the push.
Also, Lukaku has been lambasted on here by lots of people, "lazy, overweight, bad first touch, afraid of headers," etc.
Suddenly, many are outraged that this feller could one day, find a bigger stage!
22 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:12:04
Big fucking whoop...
He's the best man for the job & the best man for Everton's future... stop fucking crying about what he said.
23 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:24:23
24 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:30:13
But us plucky Evertonians clap and say well done Ruthless Ronnie for motivating the lad to want to leave.
I still find the comments classless and frankly unbelievable. You're on a reported £6M a season, Ronald, so bloody sort yourself out and stop taking the piss.
25 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:40:26
26 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:52:58
I don't need to love the manager or the players or the chairman. All I need is success. The new guys in charge may just deliver it so I think we should all calm down.
27 Posted 10/11/2016 at 17:53:45
28 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:00:05
29 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:00:54
Fine. Debatable, but fine.
However, it was the part that followed which was out of place coming from an Everton manager's mouth.
The part where the current Everton manager basically sent out a message saying that any Everton player with big ambitions needs to pack their bags before too long or be left looking back with regret later down the line, rueing what might have been after not making the most of their career.
The part where he pre-emptively tied his own hands behind his back the next time a so called 'big club' tries to prise away a player Everton are adverse to losing.
The part where he's stuffed the 'chance to get on board this ambitious new project' selling point to potential transfer targets back into his tatty pocket and rendered it laughable if he ever he looks to play that card.
The part Moshiri conveniently failed to address when filling his mate in on what his manager really meant.
"It's just player-coach talk"
Nah. It certainly should have been and all this could have been quite easily avoided if it were.
It's public talk. Coach-press-every fucker else. Current players, potential players, opposition players, opposition managers, your own fans, opposition fans, pundits, agents, that lard arsed little mullet sporting kid off the Simpsons who points and squawks "Har har!" any time someone makes a cock of themselves. Every fucker.
30 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:22:30
"Some people are so easily offended."
"Are people so daft..."
"So much over emotive nonsense spouted on here."
"Suddenly, many are outraged"
etc. etc. etc.
31 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:30:21
Moshiri appears to be fire fighting, damage limitation, he's not in control of the troops. Get Usmanov on board. I bet on Trump & won, fuck it, where's my online betting app.
32 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:33:09
"Some people are so easily offended."
"Are people so daft..."
"So much over emotive nonsense spouted on here."
"Suddenly, many are outraged"
Go on, try to refute that is not happening on this site.
33 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:42:20
Mike Galley (20): ' I believe he's going to have a big job on his hands getting a lot of the Everton support back on side'.
Mike how do you know he has to get 'a lot of the Everton support back on side'? He doesn't have to get me or many of the the blues I know 'back on side', and that's a decent 50 or so. That's a little bit - albeit amoeba-size - of empiricism for you but there is none in what you wrote.
As per #13 it would seem - who'd Adam and Eve it - that this thread is almost certainly anywhere near representative.
34 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:52:14
Koeman and Moshiri (in his recent TalkSport) convinced Lukaku to stay for another season, beyond that — nothing was guaranteed.
Surely we all know he will be going sooner or later... get used to it and let the suitors pay the going rate.
We are Everton, our team will improve, in time... and a new stadium is coming. After that, we will be a gradual force and keep players because players want success and trophies. In the future, we will deliver.
35 Posted 10/11/2016 at 18:56:43
I think Koeman is worried that his reputation will be tarnished if this run continues much longer and he is desperate for his striker to start scoring again. This is understandable but not at the expense of the club.
36 Posted 10/11/2016 at 19:42:11
"Eh Rom, you're wasted 'ere, son."
Out of fucking context?
Yer aul balls.
I'm beginning to think that Koeman just isn't the brightest... And Moshiri thinks we're not the brightest.
37 Posted 10/11/2016 at 19:47:38
38 Posted 10/11/2016 at 19:52:34
Interestingly, I had a somewhat similar thought about the dangers of Moshiri losing any love he's started to build for the club (and I am a bit sceptical anyway about coming to love the club so quickly).
If we start dissing so quickly the manager he has appointed (and I'm not saying we shouldn't), then he might start (continue?) to see his investment as no more than a financial investment and in no way an emotional investment.
If we want his money, we need his emotional investment.
39 Posted 10/11/2016 at 19:58:36
But in all seriousness.. Moshiri has bought shares. At this juncture that's all he has done in addition to making an absolute tit of himself with Jim White.
He is the one with the obligation, not us.
40 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:05:37
Koeman needs to think before he opens his mouth; going off these two instances, he doesn't seem to care what damage he does to the club.
41 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:13:52
Mr Moshiri, if you're reading this, we really do love you.
42 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:16:09
Suddenly two or three sentences of a quote are more shocking than the Tump win! We win next game and so much of this will just be a distant memory, unlike Trump.
43 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:23:11
44 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:23:42
I wouldn't mind if it meant us getting a fantastic new ground.
45 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:24:43
46 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:27:14
We won't have much choice if that's what the club chooses to do with any money received for Rom or any other player they choose to sell. It would mean that Koeman's job would become even harder if the club sold their best goalscorer and didn't give him sufficient funds to replace Lukaku.
Obviously a new ground is a very high priority, if not THE priority, but we can't afford to let the team fester whilst building it.
47 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:28:02
You've got to be kidding.
Some fans as still apoplectic at a rival manager's deliberate wind-up in calling us a small club.
Not on your nelly.
People want him gone over this (which I think is going too far)... so I don't think a 1-0 win over Swansea will do much to ease tempers.
Koeman is as likeable as Donald Trump.
48 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:28:41
49 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:36:22
50 Posted 10/11/2016 at 20:46:26
Tell our chairman that Lukaku's too good to play for Everton, so get top money for him and spend it on upgrading our team. But telling the fans that want Everton to be the best club in the world and spend their hard earned money going to games, is at best unbelievably naive!
Leicester showed it was possible... so why not Everton, Mr £6-million-a-year Manager???
51 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:00:32
52 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:15:46
53 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:19:42
No positive spin, just a plea for more balance and less emotion. That's all really.
54 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:26:01
Why not explain the Belgian newspaper interview to us, instead of leaving it to his boss? Like everything at this club these days, the whole thing stinks.
55 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:32:52
Perhaps in time we could just drop that unnecessary 90 mins. Just gets in the way!
56 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:42:28
I'm 56 years old and have been supporting the club for as long as I can remember. For the first time in a generation we appear to have money, an opportunity to sort the stadium issue and, according to all and sundry, an excellent manager.
I get what Moshiri is saying about Koeman's comments – btw, so does Leon Osman. What is it then that reduces some football supporters to react like teenage girls?
Never mind all that though, let's sack Koeman, tell Moshiri and his money to f@ck off and we can all sail on down the league into oblivion – with BK still in charge.
Lots of people on TW have said it – any chance of just a touch of perspective??
57 Posted 10/11/2016 at 21:50:56
58 Posted 10/11/2016 at 22:02:21
Just a thought...
59 Posted 10/11/2016 at 22:28:57
Who needs the press or opposition managers when our own manager totally disrespects the club and its supporters in such a public fashion? I really have gone right off Mr Koeman, not that he was my first choice anyway.
60 Posted 10/11/2016 at 22:33:42
Who needs fiction these days?
61 Posted 10/11/2016 at 22:42:18
62 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:00:16
A piss-poor radio station employing absolute tits. Parry, White, Brazil, Durham, Gough and that utter bellend Mickey Quinn.
They constantly and consistently talk us down, this just adds fuel to their fire. Colin Murray was a beacon of light – for a Red, he talked about us in glowing terms and had the moral fibre to stick to his beliefs when they changed owner.
Moshiri's use of them as his mouthpiece is deplorable and blightens his tenure. That and not signing a striker in the summer...
63 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:00:39
I think people are indulging a spot of justified disbelief at the crassness of Koeman's statements. Isn't the whole point of posting, to state what is currently on the mind (currently venting the spleen)?
I take it you didn't just shrug off the defeat at Chelsea on the day by thinking "What will it matter in 10 years time?"
And James Hughes, yeah I will refute your version of events since statements like 'so much' 'so easily' 'so daft' 'overly emotive' aren't in any way qualified – just petty-sounding.
Some fans choose to post about the comments Koeman made and some fans choose to post about some other fans' comments on the comments Koeman made. Ultimately, neither really matter... but the latter makes you come across more of a dick.
64 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:05:32
65 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:05:54
Does anyone know what the domestic incident was all about?
66 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:14:29
Why doesn't Messi want to play for Everton? Or Zlatan, Ronaldo or Bale or whatever top fotballer around the world?
If you want to try to win the Champions League, is Everton the right place to be?
It is pretty simple. Everton is not a top notch world class football team at the moment... unfortunately. That is just something you just have to realize. If you are a world class player, you probably sooner or later want to play for a world class club.
We could well be there with massive investments in 5 or 10 years. But now we not.
67 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:19:17
You're right. It is quite simple. You don't say every opinion that's pops into your head out loud.
68 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:30:58
69 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:33:09
Why did Koeman choose to suggest Everton will never compete as top European sides considering we are due to get a top European stadium and the money to fulfill this criterion?
Why did Moshiri back the statements as being taken out of context? Would it not have been better to say nothing? Is he defending the statement?
Why has Koeman changed his approach to one of an agent for Lukaku, when he made comments that the best players need to stay?
My initial suspicions are starting to consider that the only way of improving the squad is to get the best price for Lukaku... and using this money as we did with Stones.
70 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:37:48
Thanks to the backing of the 55,000 Evertonians at the new stadium, the team manages to reach the Champions League Final where Romelu and Bolasie run riot in a one-sided game and Everton put European silverware in the trophy cabinet for the second season running this attracts massive sponsorship deals and the club is now confident of cementing its place at the top-table.
Obviously that scenario is highly unlikely and very much fantasy football of the Roy of the Rovers sort, however, isn't this the sort of fantasy that very much keeps us all going to Goodison year-in & year-out?
Unfortunately, our very down-to-earth, no-nonsense, straight-talking manager doesn't believe that any of these dreams can happen to Everton Football Club and thus any player with a decent level of talent will have to move elsewhere to fulfil his potential.
It's a pity that the man charged with keeping us all dreaming is yet another manager who tells it like it is, we cannot compete, we are doomed to failure, we might have ambitions but realistically with the the way that football is structured we have little or no chance of doing so. Not what we all want to hear is it? Particularly from the guy who is supposed to at least try and get us into Europe.
Perhaps those who like to put spin on particular quotes should consider the possibility that the new investor will be little better than the old investor and that Ronald has realised he has been sold a pup?
71 Posted 10/11/2016 at 23:56:51
"Romelu will not have made the most of his career if he plays for Everton for the remainder of his career."
This is very defeatist and negative and does not sit well with Everton fans that are looking for success. It basically says we will not get any better and will be treading water for many years.
72 Posted 11/11/2016 at 00:13:22
I think that Koeman has seen enough players and teams and knows what is most likely to happen. I think he is being paid all of that money because he has a better idea than any of us, what this group of players is capable of.
We don't have the insight into training sessions or the inside info on which players are having personal problems etc.
If you give the man the job, then you have to give him time, and Moshiri is happy to let Koeman get on with most of it.
We had a romantic at the helm, and most of us got fed-up with the bullshit; now we have a straight-talking realist, and most posters on here don't like it.
I prefer Koeman; let's give him time, and see.
73 Posted 11/11/2016 at 00:26:34
If Koeman et al only arrived at Everton due to their love of money then they won't very much care about us or our hopes, knowing full well that they can leave Everton safe in the knowledge that another European or English club will take a chance on them in the future.
My main worry this week, is the fact that Moshiri felt he needed to bring in a manager who would be as recognised as the other major managers in the North West. If Moshiri honestly believes that having a manager with a name is what many Everton fans up and down the country travel to watch, he is very much mistaken – we wanted the best man available for the job not necessarily the man with the highest profile.
Only another week and a bit and we can concentrate on the team and its performance – that's a good thing right?
74 Posted 11/11/2016 at 00:32:10
He's basically telling the world that Everton FC has no future and even a limited footballer like Lukaku is too good for us. If this isn't insulting our club and us fans then what was Benitez doing; giving us credit?
The man needs to come out and apologise; he's either a coward or he really wishes he hadn't taken the job.
75 Posted 11/11/2016 at 01:38:12
It may be a pragmatic statement but here's the thing, Ron, we'd like to have a chance of a crack at that Champions League thing as soon as possible. We accept it won't be this season, or next etc... but how about letting us dream on a bit whilst we try and expunge the memory of our team's pathetic capitulation at Chelsea which appears to have been greeted like a little mishap by some!
We move on, as ever, Ron, old chap, but look, if at all possible, could you stop doing what Rom gets rightly slaughtered for several times a year, which is chatting to the press without a moment's thought about what your words might actually suggest to the soft bastards who will as ever be turning up in numbers to watch you attempt to cheer us up v Swansea???
77 Posted 11/11/2016 at 03:12:45
78 Posted 11/11/2016 at 05:51:55
79 Posted 11/11/2016 at 07:41:05
80 Posted 11/11/2016 at 07:56:02
Of course, being taken seriously doesn't happen overnight and could be years away.
Leicester City, last season, is an example. They won the Premier League and wonderful it was to see a non 'top-whatever the number is now' club win; it wasn't deemed good enough for Kante who upped and left for a better club. Only sustained success over a number of years will make Leicester become a giant.
However, it does seem odd for Koeman to flag it up for the world to see...
81 Posted 11/11/2016 at 08:27:46
Even through the turmoil of Howard Kendall's third spell, I was still proud to have him as our manager, especially when he referred to us as 'Everton Football Club'. Martinez, despite his limitations, managed to embrace the culture of our club.
I am still prepared to give Mr Koeman the benefit of the doubt but he has to realise we are not Southampton and prepared to tolerate this kind of rhetoric from our manager.
82 Posted 11/11/2016 at 08:34:55
I am of the opinion that he was wrong to say them comments when he is the man charged with taking Everton where the majority shareholder (I hope) & us fans aspire to be.
Just because "he is telling it how it is", it doesn't make it right. We used to hate Moyes talking us down & Benitez calling us a small club, as some posters alluded to. Maybe he was better off keeping his thoughts to himself & getting on with the job & making a difference at Everton.
I don't buy this abstract 'hidden meaning' rubbish of what message he is really saying. Like playing a Black Sabbath record backwards to find a hidden message or staring at a painting in a gallery pretentiously looking for the real meaning of the painting. Sometimes something is exactly what it says on the tin as clear as day.
"Romelu will not have made the most of his career if he plays for Everton for the remainder of his career."
To me, that sentence is what it is, as straight forward as that. There is no need to over analyse that sentence for another meaning or make a positive anagram from the letters or whatever.
In summary, that sentence belittles the club whichever way you dress it up. He was wrong as the Everton manager to say it. For those saying we are no longer a big club (I think that is debatable), we have the fanbase of a big club, we have a massive support, bigger than most Premier League sides. I, like the rest of you, aspire for the club to be where they once were, competing at the very top. That's why I think Koeman was wrong to say publicly what he did.
83 Posted 11/11/2016 at 09:09:24
I've worked with quite a few Dutch people and all have been very direct and not very sensitive to other people's feelings. Sometimes this can be quite refreshing but in this case, coming right on the back of a terrible thumping with an abject performance not even mustering a single shot on target, this goes beyond insensitive and into the realm of completely downright stupid.
As, by the way, is Moshiri's constant inane spoutings to Jim White and TalkSport.
84 Posted 11/11/2016 at 09:45:35
85 Posted 11/11/2016 at 10:20:10
I have the interview (in Dutch) in front of me. The Belgian reporter is allowed to ask questions because Koeman is helping a project to prevent young people to start smoking. He asks 13 questions, 7 are about Lukaku. At least 3 of them are directly or indirectly asking if Lukaku should leave Everton. If I was Koeman, I would have been very annoyed by this. But that's no excuse of course.
The reporter is pressing about Lukaku, numerous questions, comparing him with Kluivert who was also a good player at a young age. Koeman says Kluivert had a fantastic career and ended up at Barcelona, the same could happen to Lukaku.
Now you could read this in various ways, I think Koeman is not talking about Barcelona as such but more the level of play Lukaku could reach. The reporter obviously feels the same, because he goes on to press about Lukaku wanting to leave last summer. Koeman is open about Lukaku's future, saying nobody will know what happens in the future. I have tried to explain this before; this is what Belgian (and Dutch) readers expect; they won't buy into "Lukaku will stay at Everton forever". Koeman is not saying that, but he is also not saying that Lukaku will move on for sure or that Everton is not good enough.
Regretfully, this is not enough for the reporter and he asks again. "Everton should not be end of his career?" Koeman understands that the reporter is looking for a straight answer, no smooth talking, and Koeman being the man he is, likes to give straight answers, so he gives up and just comes out and says that Lukaku should be able to do better than Everton eventually.
I do understand that not everybody likes this and that some people on ToffeeWeb feel Koeman should stay positive about the club no matter what. And I do understand that for us fans Everton is the biggest and best club in the world and that any player and manager should automatically see Everton as the height of his career.
But I also understand Koeman and his reasoning that, currently, Everton is not the biggest club in football. And I do very much understand Koeman that he wants and expects anybody to aspire to the very best. It is that mentality that the club has been lacking over the last 20 years or so. It is that mentality that has been praised on this website a couple of months ago. And Koeman will speak about this mentality time and time again. It is in his nature and to be honest, I see little wrong with it. Let it be clear to anyone where the club has to go to become the "next Barcelona".
Honestly, does anyone here think that the best players in the world see Everton as the team where they would spend the prime of their careers?
86 Posted 11/11/2016 at 10:25:23
But apart from that, and more importantly for my point, the Belgian and Dutch press would translate in into "Lukaku has no ambition and shouldn't play for the national side, Koeman is crazy" and stuff like that. And that, when Lukaku is already under fire in the national side as it is, Koeman is trying to help Lukaku here.
By the way, before the reporter starts pressing about Lukaku's possible move, Koeman literally says Lukaku "could work harder for the team".
87 Posted 11/11/2016 at 10:30:32
It now applies to the manager. This is a new departure and does not exactly enhance morale. Furthermore, in terms of team spirit, Mirallas and Lukaku should have been shunted out last season.
88 Posted 11/11/2016 at 10:31:19
Wasn't it 1985-86 that Everton were regarded, by most judges, as the best team in Europe? And was Everton the club that those who bought Man City were initially interested in?
Mediocrity rears it's ugly head yet again!
89 Posted 11/11/2016 at 10:39:48
90 Posted 11/11/2016 at 11:19:27
91 Posted 11/11/2016 at 11:53:39
Indeed, in my comment at 151 I asked if "our resident Dutch correspondent Eric Dols can help out here...!"
As I also said in that post, on face value, like many others, I read the clipped comments by Koeman as reported and thought ... "Whaaaaaaat the ...?"
That is NOT how I want my club manager referring to our club or talking about arguably our biggest playing asset.
However, unlike many, before commenting, I tracked down the original article in the quoted Belgium newspaper and translated it from the Dutch.
I concur with your interpretation of the piece, Eric, and with the point Lyndon also makes in his editorial on the issue: context is everything. It is not as black and white as some are arguing. There is a middle ground one can take.
I am happy and comfortable that I find myself in the minority on Koeman's reported words, because, on balance, having taken the trouble of reading and translating the whole article as you have also done Eric, I'm prepared to give Koeman the benefit of the doubt on this one.
92 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:11:20
No one knows what the future holds and Evertonians are the best optimists and dreamers. I don't think many people foresaw what was in store for those next six years.
My Everton journey started at the Third Round tie with Altrincham in 1975, a game that most would agree, was lacklustre to say the least. However, I was hooked and persuaded my mother to buy me a season ticket, for the 75/76 season,whereupon I would pay her back at £1 a week.
Throughout the rest of the 70's, like most Evertonians, I dared to dream and those dreams nearly came true in 1977. Through all of those days, I don't recall Billy Bingham or even Mr personality, Gordon Lee, disrespecting their club or its fans.
Koeman, with his straight talking, has not bought into the Everton dream and his cold, hard business attitude does not sit well with me. Yes, you can be professional, but you can also show emotion, God knows, the guy across the park certainly does.
But hey, we're all different and some people accept Koeman's apparent indifference to his employers. Anyway, according to some, as long as he brings success, he can treat Everton as a project, or in my opinion, something he's just stepped in.
Are Evertonians that desperate for success, that they would accept Koeman making us the laughing stock of the Premier League? Because, whatever spin you put on what he said, other fans, especially that lot across the park, are pissing themselves laughing at us.
93 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:36:05
It's like the appointed head of say Tesco talking to the press and telling them that he's advised / will advise the brightest undermanager that he would be better off moving to Sainsburys because Tesco have reached the limit of their potential.
What do you think the Tesco board of directors would make of that! He would be out the door in double quick time, following Tesco shares fall on the stock market.
94 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:44:47
£50 or £60 million for a centre-forward with no stamina, lazy, cannot control the ball, never wins aerial balls. Definitely not in my top ten all time Everton centre-forwards and Koeman knows it. So keep up with the hype, Ronald.
95 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:47:03
Unfortunately, most of the major news stations didn't look for it either, which has brought us to the present situation.
96 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:51:00
For me, Koeman is no saint (no pun intended) and I expect him to be off once a bigger – in his perception, of course – team comes knocking for him. He will say things in the media that we – including myself – don't like. He has been like that all his career, both as a player and as a manager.
It is this ruthlessness that made him absolute world class as a player – do not accept anything less than the absolute best, added with the Dutch 'straightness' that can be downright rude and insulting. Diplomatic skills are certainly not his most valued asset and that is a huge euphemism.
Personally, I think the club can use a bit of Koeman after "phenomenal Martinez" but I also expect Koeman to be off after three years, tops. Either because the Barcelona's of the world come knocking – which would mean we achieved something – or because we didn't make progress and the club is fed up with him.
If it's the first case, I think it could be the best thing for the club. It would mean that he has installed some of his nil satis nisi optimum mentality in the club and that he is off before he becomes a real nuisance and really starts destroying things in his negativism. A more diplomatic manager can build on his fundations.
Of course, I'm probably way off and either Koeman will get the sack around Christmas or he will be our man for the next two decades. ;-)
97 Posted 11/11/2016 at 12:53:34
98 Posted 11/11/2016 at 13:24:24
99 Posted 11/11/2016 at 13:31:47
100 Posted 11/11/2016 at 13:32:35
So Lukaku will understand when he reads that magazine, listens to TalkSport, or reads ToffeeWeb, that it is all down to motivation!!! Why do we pander his oversized ego anyway? It really pisses me off.
And while I'm having a rant, for God's sake, stop using that dick on TalkSport as your mouthpiece. Maybe our great local media Prentice and Co will give the Dutchman a grilling at his next press conference... I won't hold me breath on that one though!!!
101 Posted 11/11/2016 at 13:53:04
It's about simple common sense and a professional obligation to portray his employer in the best possible light when under the public spotlight. Fighting their corner, rather than turning around and offering to hold them down while someone else fills them in.
There's a multitude of different ways Koeman could have answered the question about Everton not 'being the end' for Lukaku without pissing on anybody's chips - player or club.
He could have enigmatically shrugged his shoulders and said "Perhaps", "We'll see" or just slowly pumped his fist back and forth to signal "wanker".
He could have carried on lavishing praise on Lukaku if he so wished and said "He's good enough to play for any team in the world", or "He has the potential to reach the very, very top", or "If he carries on working hard he has the talent to take himself wherever he wants to go". He could have said "I'd love to see him playing for Barcelona one day and I'd even buy a shirt with his name on the back", for all I care.
However, when it comes to a paid representative of Everton... an obscenely paid representative, the most important and influential representative... publicly stating that an Everton player can look back on his career with regret if he remains at the club until the bitter end? That's a different matter entirely. Completely unnecessary and absolutely avoidable, no matter which country Koeman comes from.
I mean, Commando John Matrix was a massive mad Austrian under significant stress after seeing his daughter snatched by a Freddy Mercury lookalike in a fetching chainmail vest, but he still had the common decency and crowd pleasing smarts to soften the sting of a death threat by being sure to say "You're a funny guy, Sully, I like you", before getting around to growling "That's why I'm going to kill you last".
102 Posted 11/11/2016 at 14:09:17
I'd dread to see how he would play without his unbelievable deluded self belief, good thinking from our manager.
103 Posted 11/11/2016 at 14:40:24
But I agree, and JD says it well at 101.
104 Posted 11/11/2016 at 14:45:35
A team who have a hardworking – pressing front line who play with the ball like its glued to their feet – comfortable at looking after the ball and playing one-touch football.
Signing a player who has absolutely none of the attributes required to play in such a system. Yes, he can be a monster when he feels like it and his touch is there but that isn't all the time.
I'll ask this: If Lukaku was at La Masia as a teenager, would he have broken in to the side or even the B side? – Absolutely not. He is not a Barca player and never will be.
There are a few players in the Premier League who could play for Barca outside the ones who already have – Aguero, Hazard, Coutinho, Silva. Lukaku is nowhere near the level of technical proficiency or work ethic required.
So why would Koeman say this? Maybe he is talking him up for a move? I hope so. I would love to see what we could do with the £60m we may well get.
105 Posted 11/11/2016 at 15:27:57
Thankfully there are a few of us (Chris #100 & John #101 to name but two) who are a little more grounded in reality.
I applaud and envy the fact that some of you are trying to think Koemans comments are some kind of "secret plan" intended to gee up Rom/increase his value/get him going etc.
I am unable to see this in the comments made, as sadly, I am more of a call a spade a spade type of person, rather than not seeing the wood for the trees!
There are million better ways that RK could have responded to this question, which would have achieved the "cunning plan" of getting Roms price up, whilst not making Everton FC look like some kind of fucking Gulag for any decent players!
Fuck knows what our new Director of player Recruitment is currently thinking!? Penny for your thoughts Mr Walsh.
I hope and pray that the local journos ask some fairly probing questions at RKs pre-Swansea presser, and I am looking forward to see what he has to say regarding this whole sorry episode.
I will still get behind the team and manager, as I always have, but this will not be easily forgiven or forgotten on my part.
With regards to Moshiris Bromance and continually using the fool Jim White and Talkshite/Sky Sports to release various statements regarding Everton, including trying to clean up this shitstorm that his highest paid employee has caused, words fail me.
Anything to do with Murdoch can go and get itself fucked, as far as I am concerned, so why Mosh is insisting on using this route is a little baffling.
I thought the dodgy looking post it note thing on transfer deadline day was a windup, but the following days and weeks have been more and more worrying.
Please Mosh & RK, get it sorted both on and off the pitch, and try not to belittle or extract the piss (intentionally or not) out of this amazing club of ours!
106 Posted 11/11/2016 at 16:16:08
A lot of people seem to forget that he is on a 2-year plan. premature baying for his blood is borne out of pure frustration. He is on a hiding to nothing. He can't say the truth as it hurts.
Its a bit like in the Middle Ages, the Queen's adviser saying "Don't wear that, your Majesty, it makes your arse look big!" ... and expecting to keep his head!
107 Posted 11/11/2016 at 17:06:44
Peter #104 - we may well get £60M for him.
108 Posted 11/11/2016 at 17:25:54
Kim, I won't hear a word against Siansburys. It keeps the riff raff out of Waitrose.
109 Posted 11/11/2016 at 18:00:15
110 Posted 11/11/2016 at 18:08:37
No player should be too good for your Club as far as the manager's concerned and no manager should talk down his club in such a way.
If Koeman's grasp of the English language is not good enough, then he should employ an interpreter. Apparently there will be one going spare at Man Utd shortly and a manager likewise at EFC.
111 Posted 11/11/2016 at 18:31:23
112 Posted 11/11/2016 at 19:06:44
We've been told that Moshiri is a quiet man who rarely gives interviews (I'd never heard of him until he came to Everton), and Koeman is a reserved character of few words who doesn't like the limelight! Well they both could have fooled me; the most shameful Everton performance for over 30 years, and no public apology from the club.
Then we get Koeman telling a reporter how great Lukaku is and he needs to leave a useless club and go somewhere more deserving of his incredible talent. I thought it would have been more appropriate for him to tell the fans why this great striker failed to have an attempt at goal in an hour and a half of football
113 Posted 11/11/2016 at 19:13:14
Maybe Koeman is looking at his 3-year contract in this context, but I don't think so! I think Koeman is thinking that if he can get his proposed re-building going for the first 2-3 initial years of his contract, he may get Romelu to sign on for it.
If we go the right way!!! If not, Rom is destined for anyone better than we ended up being!
114 Posted 11/11/2016 at 19:34:02
Feels as though everyone is hanging on every word and every breath he takes and then as soon as he says anything other than Everton is the best club in the world or I'm signing for life cos Barcelona are shit, we want to hang him from the nearest gibbet.
All rather embarrassing. People need to calm down and grow up. You can reply to this with whatever you wish cos I won't be reading TW for a few days due to the international shit. It's bound to annoy the majority because you'll feel it's personal. It's not, it's just one supporter giving his view.
I'm firmly behind Koeman. I'm firmly behind Moshiri and for all the Kenwright haters, I'm behind Bill too.
Now slag me off too. Our club is going places. Do yourself a favour and support it, don't slag off the very fabric that is trying to improve it. Thanks Gareth for being the voice of reason.
115 Posted 11/11/2016 at 19:46:32
Yes Mark, but most of us on here are behind Everton: everything else is transitory and everyone else is receiving huge financial benefits and/or publicity/kudos. We the fans ask only one thing of the club's employees: show commitment, like we all do.
116 Posted 11/11/2016 at 20:11:09
I honestly don't understand why you make this personal, about me. I just tried to explain things from Koeman's perspective. It is irrelevant if you consider me an Everton fan or not (but honestly, do you think I would take the time to write on ToffeeWeb if I didn't love Everton?).
If you thought Koeman is a reserved character of few words, then you have been very ill-informed. I warned back in the summer that his 'Dutch honesty' would be slated if results don't go his way. And I was far from the only one. Even Dutch people consider Koeman brutally honest.
Having said that, Koeman never said Everton was a useless club or Lukaku needs to leave the club. That's just not in the interview and also pretty clear from the context far from what Koeman wants to say.
The interview was not aimed at us fans; it was for Belgian media. Even though that may be the case, he tried to answer the question satisfying both Belgian and Everton fans but the reporter kept pressing him for an explicit answer and he gave one in the end. One that clearly dissatisfies a lot of Everton fans. And I understand that. I just wanted to put it into context.
And to be honest, I still think a lot of you are overreacting. But I can imagine that, on the back of a 5-0 drubbing. It feels like we are back to square one.
And I do understand how it feels when the neighbours are making fun of you and belittling you at every chance. Especially when they top the league. I understand that far more than you probably can imagine.
The world is not black or white. I do understand why Koeman said what he said, I do understand why you feel and how you feel. I'm in between, I think Koeman should have given a smarter answer and I think some of you are really overreacting. Seeing the debate was largely one-sided, I thought it would be fair to try to explain Koeman's view.
Finally a warning: I tried to say this before. If this offends you, you're in for a ride, because I honestly believe Koeman does not feel he said much wrong and he can be much, much stronger in his wordings than he was right now.
117 Posted 11/11/2016 at 20:17:22
And all he gets on here is "He doesn't love the club". He has a funny way of showing his hatred by hauling suitcases full of dosh into the club.
118 Posted 11/11/2016 at 20:28:51
Did I say you're not an Everton fan? As for 'Dutch honesty', you're saying that he actually meant what he said? In that case, why is he at Everton if he doesn't believe he can make this club great again, could it be money?
Yes, it does offend me; he's only been here 5 months and he's actually wrote us off for the next 8/10 years (the expected length of Lukaku's career). If that's the kind of thing he says to satisfy the Belgian media, then why isn't he working for them, instead of stealing a living at a club he 'honestly' has no intention of improving?
120 Posted 11/11/2016 at 20:52:47
I totally agree with the notion that Koeman is talking Lukaku up for a move. Does anyone really believe that he is a genuine £60m striker?
He is to the forward line what John Stones was to the back line... overrated and we should get as much as we can out of him before the rest of the football world 'find him out'.
Let's face it, we need all the money we can to rebuild what is a very average team. Ross Barkley will be the next of these 'nearly' men to be put in the shop window...
121 Posted 11/11/2016 at 21:14:40
Not sure I can agree with your sentiment there, Joe (#83). Yes, despise TalkSport and Jim White, if that is your inclination (known as shooting the messenger?) but it really is of tremendous interest to me (and I dare say a fair few other Evertonians who have been wondering about this man) to actually hear from Farhad Moshiri, the major shareholder in our club.
"... constant inane spoutings..."??? Time for one of those head wobbles, perhaps?
122 Posted 11/11/2016 at 21:18:38
From the available evidence, he appears to have said tings not in the best interests of Everton, and in this respect is failing in his duty. His duty is not negotiable, and I hope and expect that his paymasters are taking steps to ensure that repetition of this kind of talk is avoided.
Straight talking is one thing, whereas failing to do the job you're paid for is quite another. If there is any repetition, it's possible that remedial action by the board may include finding a replacement manager. But hopefully this can be avoided through a more professional approach from Koeman.
123 Posted 11/11/2016 at 21:26:45
124 Posted 11/11/2016 at 21:28:04
125 Posted 11/11/2016 at 22:01:02
You regularly contribute with intelligent informative posts and I'm always interested in how things are perceived in Holland... but please. Let's not make this out to be a "Dutch thing". An arrogant tactless bastard is an arrogant tactless bastard – no matter where he comes from.
I really don't see why you think fans are overreacting. It does not surprise me in the slightest that Koeman's "Dutch honesty" has been countered with a little Scouse frankness.
This particular match may not have been made in heaven.
126 Posted 11/11/2016 at 22:55:13
I'm not saying it is a Dutch thing. When I mentioned Dutch honesty I was quoting others (Scousers, probably!) and I said that even Dutch people perceive Koeman as harsh/too direct. Koeman IS an arrogant tactless bastard, I agree with that analysis 100%. If that does not come across from my messages and it seems I'm saying "he's just being Dutch", I was not clear enough. My apologies.
Perhaps in trying to explain his train of thought it comes across like I agree with him or think he is absolutely right. I don't. But I do think I understand a bit how he thinks – not because he is Dutch but because Koeman has been in the media over here permanently since the '80s. And a lot of times not too positively; he can be a real asshole. I already knew this, I tried to warn for it. Look it up, when asked which Dutch manager I would want last summer, I said I wanted Cocu or De Boer, and Koeman would be my last choice from those three.
Having said that. The only thing in this case related to the continent is that Koeman was interviewed by someone from the continent, who was mainly interested in Lukaku in reference to his place in the Belgian national team and was pressing Koeman for an answer if Lukaku should leave Everton.
I honestly think that a simple "he's an Everton player, we're glad to have him and he will stay here" wouldn't have helped Lukaku, as the reaction of the reporter clearly shows. So I understand why Koeman said what he said. Was it the best answer he could give? No. Was it a typical Koeman-answer? Yes. Will Koeman say stuff like this in the future? Probably. I expect him to say worse on a bad day actually.
Why do I think fans are overreacting? It was an interview with Belgian media – translations from continental media have given rise to heated debates on ToffeeWeb time and again, so may be ToffeeWebbers could try and take those with a pinch of salt – and Koeman was clearly led to this answer. It's that context that makes me being surprised at the reactions on ToffeeWeb. I was hoping that people just shrugged off anything coming out in the press on the continent during international breaks.
I live here, I can 100% guarantee you that the media over here considers Everton mid-table material. In England, they are only interested in Man City, Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea and I hate to say it, the RS. And In Europe as a whole, they consider Barcelona the only real team. It's really annoying but it is how it is.
In that context, almost every interview about a young player not playing for one of those clubs (or for Real Madrid, Bayern Munich or Paris SG) will invariably lead to the reporter leading questions asking when the player will leave for such a team. And the player – or his manager – that says he is not interested in such a move will not be taken seriously by the media. Please, get used to it.
That I think fans are overreacting does not mean that I think Koeman gave the best possible answer out there. I keep saying this, it's not black and white.
I feel like the debate on ToffeeWeb is very polarized on this subject and I refuse to see this as black and white as you guys seem do.
127 Posted 11/11/2016 at 23:16:23
I pay no attention to interviews with the European media as they have their agenda and it doesn't come near ours.
128 Posted 12/11/2016 at 00:27:10
A moment's thought would have told him where the questions would lead; Lukaku's scoring goals where do you see his future, Mirallas is doing sweet fa – ditto.
Those are questions you don't choose to answer in a planned interview.
At best poor judgement. I regret Moshiri's rush to TalkSport but applaud his efforts to defend his appointed manager. I would be interested to hear his defence of the team and formation selected last Saturday.
129 Posted 12/11/2016 at 00:56:43
I also think that sometimes, despite the insatiable "needs" often fan for 24/7 information, it is sometimes better to say nothing. In the old days football topics appeared around Friday and died down around Monday and we had a couple of days off. But then the whole cottage industry of quantity over quality information would not exist (no disrespect to your site). We can't go back I suppose, but we can pick and choose the information vectors.
Also Len (#117) "he has paid off the debts and got rid of the covenants on the club"
Where is this information from? Last I heard (I could be wrong) he has done none of this. In fact, he hasn't invested a penny in the Club at all; just bought a load of shares from Bill which is a private transaction. You could argue that by installing his man on the board, who presumably takes a salary, he had actually increased the cost based the Club.
130 Posted 12/11/2016 at 02:50:34
Yes, I'd much prefer the good old BBC (mainly because I cannot stand adverts), but there's a fair few on here who won't hear a good word said about them.
There's definitely a strong desire to turn the clock back on here. But it's 2016... all this wonderful nostalgia may be something that is holding us back. Part of my quest for reality I guess, so it's the here and now for me.
You ask about Len's startling statement regarding Farhad Moshiri: "he has paid off the debts and got rid of the covenants on the club" — Where is this information from? Last I heard (I could be wrong) he has done none of this. In fact, he hasn't invested a penny in the Club at all.
Seems you are wrong, I'm afraid, Joe, and you'll love the irony because you'd never guess where this information came from...
JIm White on TalkSport, channelling Farhad Moshiri!
Methinks there's a whole thread your missing there, Joe!!!
131 Posted 12/11/2016 at 06:20:20
I fully appreciate your insightful posts and your latest, whilst not being comfortable to digest, hits the nail on the head. The media is interested in the successful teams only... No surprise there. Obviously the underdog scenarios such as Leicester City last season catch the attention as well. Liverpool's inclusion in the media spotlight is currently deserved but I can only consider their constant promotion of them over recent years with reference to obtuse conspiracy theories which after a while become self-defeating.
Highlighting Lukaku's position at Everton is a reflection of the situation. Everton (the team I love), are currently a team in transition and to be honest are mid-table mediocrity at best and have been for some time. I will acknowledge it but I will never get used to it!
Lukaku's goalscoring stats bring him into the (superficial?) media spotlight. It is a reasonable question – Why is such a burgeoning world talent seemingly wasting his time in a mediocre team?
I think Koeman's response, whether in or out of context, is 'appropriate' to the situation. Lukaku is not an Evertonian at heart but he is an Everton employee. Judging on his performances, his general demeanour recently, then I see him as a solid employee worthy of being rewarded. If he has long term ambition elsewhere (if I could live and work in Barcelona or Liverpool then it would be a no-brainer – and that is not meant as a slight to Merseyside or anywhere else in the UK).
The season is still young and I am interested to see how we fare come May 2017. Koeman will not accept the utter gutless shite being produced by such a talented pool of players and the writing is on the wall for several. No need to mention names as we know who they are.
One player who is understanding the need to play with absolute commitment is Gueye and he is a nailed-on starter. Another committed player is Oviedo. After his appalling injury, I am surprised to see him playing at all but he has guts and is showing it whenever he pulls on the shirt, even if the stress sometimes shows in the performance. Hopefully he will come through the challenge soon; if not, you cannot fault him for trying.
If Lukaku gets the Koeman message and we achieve a top four slot then we may see a different approach to his commitment to Everton. If he continues to perform per media expectations (goals alone?) then he will likely move on, for a fat fee, which will be good for all concerned.
132 Posted 12/11/2016 at 06:38:07
Whilst I still can't agree, I appreciate you taking the trouble to explain your point.
I worry that Koeman either doesn't care who he upsets, or simply isn't quick enough on his feet to deal with a slippery journalist. I suspect it's a little of both.
Where I am in 100% agreement with you, is your point that this will not be the last time.
As you know, Evertonians have never been backward themselves in speaking their minds. If Goodison isn't happy, the manager will know about it.
I think most would prefer a plain-speaking manager, but he has to be on our side, no matter who he's talking to. Choosing between disappointing the Belgian press or insulting the fans of this club should not even be an issue.
TW has made for compulsive reading this past few days. Three threads already devoted to one interview. If you're right about Koeman (and I believe you are), I think the relationship between the manager and a large section of the fanbase will become the Number One talking point this season.
But, while there's moonlight and music and love and romance....
133 Posted 12/11/2016 at 07:24:25
134 Posted 12/11/2016 at 09:20:23
135 Posted 12/11/2016 at 09:22:30
You're right too about the jumpers for goalposts nostalgia stuff and me turning my nose up at the whiffy smell coming from the particular channel that was chosen (though not much credit in being right about that one - I thought I said exactly that in my last post). I would much prefer the use of local outlets which get fed into the nationals. Mainly because local reporters generally have more emotional investment in the Club rather than national peddlers looking for sensationalism. It's always been that way and just seems like we may have lost something to me at least.
Yes, it is 2016 and we move on and all that. Personally I'd prefer to see indisputable evidence which speaks for itself on and off the pitch rather than media management is the nub of my point I think.
You asked what I am complaining about, well I would say that I would rather hear how the management take steps to ensure there are no more abject performances like we just witnessed last Saturday rather than all this other bollocks which seems like irrelevant deflection to me.
It's nice to know all the peripheral stuff but my apparent hankering for the old days was for a time where the emphasis was almost entirely on football matters. Timewise, the 90 minutes per week that is really the only thing that matter tends to get diminished in the push to fill every waking hour with information around the Club. Often this is given more weight than football matters.
Like this crap straight after we conceded 5 goals without a shot in return. Yes, I know that the Belgian journalist asking the question doesn't give a shit that we got thumped, it's just more evidence for the likes of him that Lukaku is playing for a club beneath him. But I'd have liked to have seen the manager address the point of collective responsibility on the back of that and say that if he doesn't put a shift in to address that he won't be going anywhere and his career will have been a failure rather than the fact that it is because he plays for Everton.
I'd have liked to have heard Mr Koeman state that both he and Lukaku are paid a fortune to take the Club forward and then we see where we are rather than this apparent attitude that we are both just taking the money while we plan for bigger and better things. Seems quite fraudulent not to be addressing football matters to me.
I've not been paying attention but I haven't heard mention of any kind of plan to make sure there are no repeats of the humiliation we suffered last week. Anything else is just fluff.
136 Posted 12/11/2016 at 09:28:22
137 Posted 12/11/2016 at 10:24:08
138 Posted 12/11/2016 at 10:42:14
139 Posted 12/11/2016 at 11:06:05
140 Posted 12/11/2016 at 11:23:34
I don't actually give a flying whatever about Romelu Lukaku or how his career pans out unless it is benefitting my football club. I couldn't actually give much of a toss about players who leave Everton, with a few notable exceptions. Rom plays for us, he's an Everton player – is he giving his all is what I care about. Rom leaves us, see ya, bye bye, don't let the door bang you on the arse on the way out.
That IS the whole point, right? The way we play in the here and now often seems to be taking second place to all this other crap around financial projection, media profile, whatever. If that has a material impact on the results, great. If it is its own story generator then I want to know why the effort expended there is not addressing football matters.
You can call me naïve, but I would rather see a bit of a sheepish attitude and a pledge to improve this week from all concerned rather than a shrug of the shoulders and talk about where individuals are going next. Romelu Lukaku was a key individual who could have done something about last week and there does not seem to be an attitude to put that right RIGHT NOW. If Lukaku or Koeman or anyone else does not have that attitude then frankly, sod off now so we can get someone who will.
I actually fully expect that Koeman IS taking steps to address that but I would rather that that is what he talked about front and centre and stated that that was his overwhelming priority right now in any interviews. Everton Football Club pays his wages TODAY. If in the future he is paid by a media outlet or another club then he can talk about them or whatever he wants at the time. Right now, I want his focus to visibly and demonstrably be on improving Everton, or we are going to get more shit like this which will increase the divide we are seeing in this thread. If people are defending his content, then we can all probably agree that his timing was shite.
141 Posted 12/11/2016 at 12:12:03
I agree with what you say but, week-in and week-out, Koeman has told it like it is. He has spoken straight from the hip. Everyone's applauded him for his straight talking, his honesty, his forthright manner. He is sometimes guarded and in my view he's no gobshite.
He has made an innocuous comment. He hasn't said "I'm just treading water at Everton"..."I can't be arsed turning up for training some days" or anything else that is offensive and yet the vast majority have called for him to explain himself. We either want an honest, hard working manager or we can have Martinez back.
Alex Ferguson, good manager, often talked shite. Arsene Wenger, good manager... "I didn't see anything" ...cock. Mourinho, good manager, talks inane shite. And so it goes on.
Let's support our manager, let's stop hanging on every bloody word and assess him at the end of the season as to whether he should be sacked or not.
I find the vitriol and diatribe towards him truly excessive and unwarranted.
142 Posted 12/11/2016 at 12:25:36
In other words, professionalism is required. We need better performance on the pitch, clear commitment from all, players and management, to the cause of Everton (who pay them), and less bullshit, of the straight talking variety or otherwise.
143 Posted 12/11/2016 at 12:58:20
144 Posted 12/11/2016 at 13:02:05
145 Posted 12/11/2016 at 13:31:37
BUT... it didn't NEED saying, it's NOT what Evertonians wanted to hear, and it DOESN'T endear Koeman to a lot of Evertonians whether they be classed as drama queens, over-reacting or whatever. If someone's offended then that's their right. If someone's not then it doesn't mean their wrong either.
I just wonder when the Koeman's are preparing to go for a night out on the town and Mrs Koeman says "Ronny dear, do you think I've still got a great figure?" whether Ronald says "Are you fooking jhoking wid me, you've got de arse of a fooking dray horse" or whether he thinks "Hmmmm, trooth or should I be shensitive to de shituation?"
By the way, the spelling is an attempt to be indicative of a Dutch accent and not the result of someone who spent their educational years frequenting the bike sheds.
146 Posted 12/11/2016 at 14:46:54
My optimism that he may be our saviour is starting to wane somewhat, I have to say; why he thinks this Sky link is a good idea is beyond me.
His next move should be to tell our overpaid manager to watch his step or he will be following my idol Roberto out the door.
147 Posted 12/11/2016 at 18:13:16
Which of these two timeshare salesmen is right? I haven't expressed a view.
148 Posted 12/11/2016 at 18:13:37
A man who has been brought in on £6m a year and apparently being given access to a bigger transfer fund than any other Everton manager in history, has just been quoted as saying that one of your players would be wasting his career if he stayed with the club, instead of saying that it's his job to make us successful again so players like Lukaku don't want to leave and so we can attract top players in the future?
It's a fucking disgrace whichever way you try and look at it.
149 Posted 12/11/2016 at 18:20:09
Yes, in '85 we were a big club. But come on again... wtf? Why don't our players play better then if we are such a big club now? One day, people say Lukaku is a lazy twat, and the next day, he is a superstar. I seriously don't give a shit whatever he is or what his future plans are.
What I give a shit about is that, when Lukaku is playing for Everton, he and the other players should run like fucking Forrest Gump. If not, they can all go and play anywhere else.
And seriously, all players do not go into every game with a hardcore 100% attitude, like it was their last day on earth, which they should. If they would, maybe we could win something?
It is too narrow-minded to say because of this interview Koeman don't care about Everton bullshit. Maybe Everton is better off with Lukaku somewhere els.e.. who knows? It is not wrong telling people the truth. Do you really want a manager saying Everton is a world class club and then ending up midtable living a lie nonsense?
The only way out of our 30 years of mediocrity is honesty. I am sick and tired of hearing that we are a world class club when we win nothing.
150 Posted 13/11/2016 at 06:26:30
I'm not sure if that answers your question as to why the present players do not play to a higher standard but that continued mismanagement has contributed to the financial standing at a time when other clubs were improving their finances.
Nowhere have I suggested that telling the truth is wrong or that all players shouldn't always give their best effort. However, there is a difference between publicly saying that having a long career at Everton could be seen as not fulfilling your potential and saying that Lukaku, as do all our players, has a contract with Everton and is expected to fulfill it to the best of his ability.
Again, Peter, it seems that we agree that we are no longer considered the best team in Europe which has been borne out for quite some time by our League position and trophies won. That situation will not be changed by honestly saying that we were rubbish after every game we don't win and it won't see me changing my allegiance to another club at anytime at all.
151 Posted 13/11/2016 at 10:51:14
Being an Evertonian is of course a motivation for my posts, but does not affect the substance of them. It's logic captain, as Mr Spock used to say.