Koeman laments poor first half in frustrating home draw

Saturday 19 November 2016  118 Comments  [Jump to last]

Ronald Koeman blamed another poor first-half showing for his side's failure to beat Swansea City today but expressed some satisfaction with their showing after half-time.

Everton were slow out of the blocks against the Swans and found Bob Bradley's side hard to break down before falling behind to a 41st-minute penalty that meant they went into the break in arrears.

Despite that lacklustre first-half display, the Blues created their clearer openings in the opening 45 minutes but finally found the breakthrough in the 89th minute when Seamus Coleman rescued a point with an excellent headed goal.

“It's difficult,” Koeman said. “If you start the game how we did in the first half then football is very difficult and you make it very comfortable for your opponent.

“You see the difference howe we started the second half, it was a different team, a different attitude… More aggression on the pitch and then you can make it very difficult [for your opponent].

“Finally, ok we did not create a lot but we out everything on the poitch to get a better result. OK, one point is not what you expect but the way we played in the first half is not how I like to see my team.

“[I asked my players] why we always need a reaction or to be a goal down to have the reaction we showed in the second half. I agree totally with the fans when they whistled to the team at half time because we did not play how we can play football.

“But we missed a lot of aggression, we were not winning second balls but we changed everything in the second half and that's at least how we need to play at home at least.”

 

Reader Comments (118)

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Brian Williams
1 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:21:54
Hey, the second half was better only because it just couldn't be as bad.

That today was an abject display against a team who've won ONE game and arrived with a minus 11 goal difference.

We lacked everything required to win a football match: effort, agression, creativity, intensity.

Was talking in the car on the way home after the game about how many of that starting 11 we should keep.

We came up with 6. That was totally unacceptable.

Ray Smith
2 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:36:35
Brian, I would probably keep 6 including those on the bench. This leaves Koeman with having to play the other 5 until he can shift them out. If he drafted in the youngsters at this stage of the season, what chance we may have of a Europa place (at best) would be gone.

However, quality players these days don't play for nothing, but it's European football that attracts them.

What can we offer true quality players to come here in January? If we manage to qualify for Europe next season may see some quality arrivals!

Until then same old service we have seen so far this season. Koeman must be wondering what he has bought into. Too many coasters whose legs have gone or going.

Allan Board
3 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:42:15
Sounds like a ticking time bomb with Koeman and these players. I only hope for the sake of EFC that he has gotten in a few more players of his own before it explodes!!!

As fans of Everton, surely we can't ignore the fact that 80% of this lot don't give a flying fuck. This is what happens when players are allowed a comfort zone by this club for years and favourites given preferential treatment.

To be successful as a team, you must have a dog-eat-dog attitude amongst players or you end up with a bunch of soft arses – which is exactly what's happening.

Darren Hind
4 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:48:44
The crowd were serving you up a helping of scouse candour, Ronnie.

Grow a pair and accept responsibility. These arl men start slowly every game, but YOU keep picking them.

Clive Rogers
5 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:53:36
Brian (#1),

Good post, I agree. Personally I wouldn't include Bolasie as one of the 6. He loses the ball too often and is far too erratic.

Mark Frere
6 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:54:28
I agree with Koeman. We were much better in the second half in terms of aggression, and desire. But, it was the quality of the final ball which let us down, time and time again! Bolasie's crosses into the box were truly atrocious. You'd expect much better from a £28 million pound player!

I lost count of the amount of corners we wasted by managing to give their keeper catching practice with every one. We were just so wasteful and couldn't make our superiority count when it mattered. Some more creative players with a footballing brain, urgently needed methinks!

Colin Glassar
7 Posted 19/11/2016 at 20:57:39
Darren, mark my words, most of these players will be shipped out before Koeman. He's not going to lose his millions lightly.
Ray Smith
8 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:00:30
Clive (#5),

I would keep Bolasie, but as a squad player, until we ship out the old guard. I can't see us ever recouping what we paid for him?

There are a considerable number who I would show the exit door before him.

Laura Round
9 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:06:48
I was at the game and was angry and disappointed. Rest for Jags... Seamus for captain.

On a positive note, I thought Ross was better today. I know he missed a shot but at least he looked like he cared.

Darren Hind
10 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:09:03
It doesn't work like that, Colin.

Only those who are out of contract can't be "shipped out". While they still have time on their contract, they hold all the cards.

Look at the success he made of shipping Niasse out.

Also, the only way he will not get HIS dosh, would be for him to walk away... Think that'll happen given he earns £6m a year??

Colin Glassar
11 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:15:22
I think he'll be ruthless in the summer, Darren. 6-7 players to leave. We have some talented players but with a poor, loser attitude.
Don Alexander
12 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:24:37
For years, we have consistently failed to get a corner beyond the opposition covering the near post nearly all the time. When we do we are cursed with a centre forward with a distaste for an aerial battle so that means, given the general lack of height in the rest of the team, that we have to depend on the not so quick legs of our three senior centre-backs to pose an aerial goal threat at an attacking set piece.

We also appear to have nobody any more with the ability to seriously threaten with a direct free kick. These things need to be remedied in January.

More worryingly the players appear disinterested and/or inept in their passing, running, pressing and recovery. Our defence, notwithstanding the huge efforts of Gana and, less so this season by way of his age, Barry is not getting the protection that forwards and midfielders in successful teams routinely give theirs. These things need to be remedied too.

Last season I defended this squad due to the buffoonery of Martinez but, given the achievements of RK with Southampton, where he successively got Europa places despite successive disembowellings of their squad in each of the two summers he was there, I now know where my faith is and I look forward to seeing a couple of disembowellings all of our very own.

Geoff Williams
14 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:30:57
I now have serious doubts about Koeman. These players can play better – we've seen it briefly this season and on occasions last season.
Peter Mills
15 Posted 19/11/2016 at 21:56:26
I don't want our manager lamenting slow starts from our players. I want our manager sending out a team motivated from the kick off.
John Pierce
16 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:07:33
A poor squad who are been asked to play a way they cannot adapt to. So they need changing. We all to a man agree on that.

Koeman's fault is the persistence in this method; we believed BBS to be inflexible – Koeman is manifestly the same.

If things are that forlorn then I'd expect to see experimentation. Somewhat bizarrely, the lack of genuine partner for Rom is baffling. Rom equals goals and – despite his carthorse touch – attracts 2/3 players to him. A strike partner would benefit massively from the space. But we seem allergic to getting bodies in the box.

Koeman is casting a shadow of man who cannot coach and improve his lot, but a man who shops for improvements and does little else but mouth off.

Ronnie, if yer gonna talk the talk, then it's time to walk the walk.

Tony Smith
17 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:22:56
A team that consistently fails to start a game without any urgency, will to win, or desire to perform, is a team that isn't playing for the manager or fans. I have supported Everton for many years but have never felt so disconnected from a set of players and manager.

They literally don't give a toss as there should have been a reaction after the Chelsea debacle but instead they don't turn up again against the bottom team.

With the next 6 games looking very difficult ,I think we're in for a toxic month with real fears for the 2nd half of the season.

Don Alexander
18 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:26:27
John, my guess is that to play two strikers further weakens an already defensively idle midfield as far as Barkley, Mirallas and Deulofeu are concerned. If he takes on the two-up-top notion, he'd probably have to sacrifice them for Cleverley, Lennon and er, well, someone else as well really.
Matt Butlin
19 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:29:02
Spot on Tony. Baines, Coleman and Gana aside, I couldn't agree more.
Tony Smith
20 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:39:06
I agree, Matt @19,

I think the addition of one or two of the promising youngsters would give the fans a lift, and send a message to the current underperforming first-teamers.

Each transfer window needs to see a gradual change in first team personnel until we can get in players willing to demonstrate some ambition and desire to win things with Everton.

Some of these players are now on their 3rd manager which is a sign they didn't play well enough to keep either of them in their jobs.

Clive Rogers
21 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:41:55
Geoff 14,

It's the shambles left behind by Kenwright and Martinez that is the problem.. Martinez only made two decent signings, the rest are poor. Added to that, our best players are in decline. If the old regime was still running things, we would be relegated this season.

Nicholas Ryan
22 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:42:35
Isn't the answer to a slow start, to say before the match:

"I'm making 3 changes at half-time... make sure you're not one of them"!!

Ian Riley
23 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:50:40
Everton were slow out of the blocks. This is not new. Its been in the culture at our club for years.

Koeman is frustrated like the fans. The false dawn in the summer is the frustration for the fans. High expectations to the same old and even calling for the manager's head.

The squad has lacked serious funding for 20 years. Sadly we are way behind teams in the top four. If anyone thinks Koeman could turn this round in one season or two seasons they are sadly going to be disappointed.

Jay Harris
24 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:56:39
The weaknesses of this squad have been evident for years.

No movement and no goalthreat from anyone except Lukaku.

That combined with the aging of some of the more experienced pros is what we see before us.

You cannot build on sand. Look at what the current top six have spent on players and new managers over the last few years and that tells you all you need to know.

We need quality additions urgently and in the meantime Koeman needs to give the selected 11 some direction and purpose – otherwise, the slide down the league may be more rapid than we appreciate.

Mark Morrissey
25 Posted 19/11/2016 at 22:57:05
Good post, Nicholas.
Ray Smith
26 Posted 19/11/2016 at 23:14:01
7 to go:

1) Kone
2) Gibson
3) Jagielka
4) McCarthy
5) Valencia (send him back from whence he came).
6) Mirallas (I have rated him for a long time; when he gets dropped he always agrees that he could do better... even in the Martinez era).
7) Barry (sentiment dictates that he can play as long as he thinks he can; reality dictates that we retain him for coaching our young/future prospects. He deserves to be recognised for his continual commitment and contribution to the cause.

Others not listed above are also subject to scrutiny. However, we still need to put our best/fit 11, which currently dictates that some of the above will escape the axe!

Tell me I'm wrong. I await the onslaught!!

Joe O'Brien
27 Posted 19/11/2016 at 23:42:45
I'd add Cleverley to that list, Ray.
Paul Conway
28 Posted 19/11/2016 at 00:07:22
Instead of citing all the players who have to go (the list is too long), how about just adding to... Lukaku, Coleman, Gueye, Stekelenburg? The rest are pure dross... including Ross!
Craig McFarlane
29 Posted 20/11/2016 at 01:06:01
I really feel for Koeman at the moment. It is patently obvious that we are half a side short due to either players losing it or never really having it in the first place. It must be hard when most of them don't appear to give a toss and just seem happy to collect their paycheques (god forbid they break a sweat while doing so!)

Unfortunately, BBS bought lightweight players that are unable to stand up to the rigours of Premier League football on a regular basis (see Deulofeu, Cleverley, Besic) and quite a few that stunk the place out (see Niasse, McGeady, Kone, Alcaraz). By doing so he has left us up a certain creek, but I believe that Meneer Koeman can fashion some sort of paddle to get us out of it. It will just take time, a few transfer windows and a bit of backing from Moshiri.

I believe that with Walsh signed on and with some actual proper time to scout players for Everton, rather than those he had got ready for Leicester, we will be a much more exciting side in 12 months time. The key this season is getting into one of the Europa spots so we become a more attractive proposition for the type of players we want, but cannot currently get over the line — if this summer is anything to go by.

Dick Fearon
30 Posted 20/11/2016 at 01:58:21
Expect Kenwright to divert fans' discussion or the latest woeful episode by throwing a dead cat on the table.

Perhaps a titbit of new stadium news will get a run in the next few days.

Peter Barry
31 Posted 20/11/2016 at 02:50:43
Koeman should be lamenting HIS lack of managerial skills in not being able to motivate a team HUMILIATED by Chelsea in their last game to at least show a spark of fight and intent. There is something seriously wrong in the Everton dressing room.

I got hauled over the coals by some people on here, no names no pack drill, for even daring to suggest that THIS unmotivated Everton team would struggle against Swansea. So how do you feel this morning guys and can I expect your grovelling apologies?

Paul Ferry
32 Posted 20/11/2016 at 04:43:28
Peter Barry (#31),

You want 'grovelling apologies' after Everton draw when you said they would lose. You revel when we erm don't win. I have never once known you to say anything positive about Everton. 'Grovelling apologies' when you got it wrong.

I'm sorry, Peter, but with each repetitive post you have constructed yourself as a caricature 'Angry From Bali'. I suspect only one or two take the time and dreary effort to read your posts. Sorry. And I'm being sincere when I hope that your health is still improving mate.

Mick Davies
33 Posted 20/11/2016 at 05:06:48
Koeman is responsible for picking a clearly out-of-form, and probably past-it centre-half, while he's got Funes Mori, Holgate, Galloway and others who are more mobile, and good in the air at corners (both ends). We lack ideas in midfield, but we've all seen what Tom Davies can do; it seems like Koeman only wants dinosaurs like Barry.

He can moan all he likes but he gets paid about 75 times more than the Prime Minister and 100 times more than a junior doctor to sort it out. Less jaw-jaw and more action please

Fran Mitchell
34 Posted 20/11/2016 at 05:38:06
Holgate for Jagielka.
Davies for Cleverley
Dowell for Lennon
Calvert-Lewin for Valência.
Walsh for Mirallas.

Time to ship out the deadwood. No room for sentimentality.

Also time for Barkley and Deulofeu to either step or or ship out. I don't know what is wrong with them, but two of our most talented creative players are currently busted flushes.

Brian Porter
35 Posted 20/11/2016 at 06:25:17
Ray Smith @26. I agree with all but one on your list, that one being Barry. Despite his age, he has the one vital ingredient our other players lack... a football brain! He's still able to read a game better than most and be where he should be at the right time. He's a consummate professional who may need resting occasionally but who still offers a great deal to the team.

Jagielka has become our biggest liability imo. Slowed down so much this season, off the pace, unable to time a tackle in the box and reduced to constantly giving away penalties to the opposition. Funes Mori, a full and regular Argentinian international, should now be given a chance to build a working partnership with Williams who, like Jags, is getting on a bit and needs more pace beside him.

Laura Round
36 Posted 20/11/2016 at 06:34:57
Dick (#30) – I said to hubbie, "There'll be stadium news this week!"
Steve Brown
37 Posted 20/11/2016 at 07:09:53
Can anyone explain why Tom Davies was dropped when an evidently ring-rusty McCarthy went into the team and Cleverley (dire against Chelsea) made the bench?

This team is crying out for energy, determination and tempo which Tom proved he has in abundance. I was amazed when I saw he wasn't included. I thought Koeman was willing to make big decisions, but that seems to stop at any player aged 21 or under.

James Watts
38 Posted 20/11/2016 at 07:53:26
Steve (37). Reason? Simple. Big Ron doesn't give a stuff about youth and won't give them a chance unless he has no choice. He's proved it with his team selections time and time again. He would rather see the same old shit like Macca and Cleverley any day of the week.
James Watts
39 Posted 20/11/2016 at 08:08:49
No chance, Fran (#34). This manager will never pick youth over experience. We have to accept that, I'm afraid.
Joe Foster
40 Posted 20/11/2016 at 08:35:27
I would give us 3 out of 10. That was one poor game. I have seen more movement in a morgue than our players. They just stand still and wait for the ball to come to them. I give up with this shite.
Jimmy Salt
41 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:10:17
Dick/Laura, I Was just thinking the same thing.
Phil Walling
42 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:27:44
Moshiri will go bust before this manager gets us into Europe. The standard of his purchases up to now has been appalling with only Gueye looking anything like 'quality'.

Jags will be drawing his pension before Holgate is brought in as Funes Mori will get the chance to fuck up on a regular basis.

I think the players he has inherited don't rate his methods and are beyond motivating. Putting it mildly – we are in deep shit!

Eddie Dunn
43 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:41:10
I thought and said that Swansea would be a tough nut to crack, and we would need a good start and an early goal to set us on our way. It has been a feature of this team, both last season and this, that they fail to get the bit between the teeth early enough.

How many games, even at home, have we watched as players run here and there with seemingly no idea what their aim is? Then, as we gift a sloppy goal to them we contrive to heap pressure on ourselves, getting more and more desperate in pursuit of a goal.

The bullshit of the Martinez era and "the best squad in years" nonsense has been exposed as snake-oil sales talk. This squad is bang average. I have seen enough to predict a 10th place finish. The team is miles away from the top 4 and currently 13 or 14 lobotomies away from Europa League.

Martinez lost the players, but Koeman doesn't seem to be able to get any more out of them. We are better at the back, but clueless elsewhere. So it is plain to see that these players are simply not good enough.

A huge clearout is needed. I would only keep Baines, Coleman, Williams, Funes Mori, Gana, and Bolasie. Lukaku will be gone anyway. I would give Davies a regular start.

Ray Robinson
44 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:46:18
For those of you who think Jagielka is off the pace – which I agree with – I thought Williams was even worse yesterday, particularly in the first half! Not having a go at either of them, merely commenting.
Jeff Armstrong
45 Posted 20/11/2016 at 09:47:10
Coleman scored so he gets a pass, does he? I thought he was as a bad as the rest of them, so was Baines,they where all crap,except maybe Gueye,and a couple of first half tit bits from Barkley.

Two wingers and two defensive mids leaves just Ross as our only creative outlet through the middle; he is isolated and unable to do the job, as would any number 10 having to play on his own.

I could not understand why either Lennon or Bolasie could not have been omitted and a more creative passing type player like young Davies dropped into the midfield to help Ross out.

Even if he had been on the bench, this glaringly obvious tactical error could have been put right after half an hour... But no, Koeman has the usual suspects on the bench and we ended up with like for like when the subs happened, same formation same waste of space wingers, just different names.

John Wilson
46 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:07:10
Eddie Dunn (at 43), whilst I agree with your 1st and 2nd paragraphs, your 3rd and 4th are merely circumstantial. As for your 5th paragraph, a bad performance does not mean a 'bang average' team. If Everton were to have beaten Swansea, I suspect you'd likely be saying something rather different and positive.

Phil Walling (at 42), learn to recognise the difference between a fact, an opinion, and a statement. What you're saying is merely circumstantial insofar as Moshiri – like any good businessman – has to view his product (Everton Football Club) based on the facts.

Everton are struggling obviously, but this man is qualified accountant (can manage the company's books more than adequately), and his father was a senior military judge (shows he inherits good reasoning skills).

Moshiri knows this is a long-term problem but his ideas are good which will more than improve Everton from the top down, to the players on the pitch. He will likely make Everton a viable commercial attraction to sign the world class players at some point.

Phil Walling
48 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:54:54
Board members seem to have their PR machines watching these pages this morning so we must stick to the FACTS.

I repeat that recent form indicates that, Premier League-wise, Everton are in deep shit!

Barry Pearce
49 Posted 20/11/2016 at 10:57:58
I think a lot of us on here would prefer Davies to Cleverley. He should be in the matchday squad at least.
Stan Schofield
50 Posted 20/11/2016 at 11:25:17
John @46 & 47:

Regarding the difference between fact and opinion, Moshiri and subsequent associates at Everton might or might not have the attributes you ascribe to him, but it must be said that some of your statements are opinion apparently based on assumptions.

I see no real evidence that PhDs in economics, or lineages involving senior military judges, will prosper Everton. It would be nice to think it would, but that's about it. Let's wait, see and hope.

Keith Monaghan
51 Posted 20/11/2016 at 11:45:14
As has been clear for ages, we have many problems – lack of heart & mental toughness, lack of fitness & pace, very little creativity, and very few players who threaten the opposition goal.

For me, the most concerning is lack of creativity – our best midfield players in the last 3 years wasn't, owing to suspension, on the pitch yesterday. McCarthy has offered so little for 2+ years – a mediocre championship player at best, and Barkley is hopeless – has ability, but only shows interest when a corner or free kick is awarded us, and sulks off if he doesn't take it. He is not a team player and makes no attempt to help his colleagues.

Koeman has a big job on to sort this out, and January will at best be a start – he tells it as it is and some of our supporters can't take it. How can any realistic fan think Anichebe is better than Lukaku (who has great strengths but aspects in need of improvement)???

George McKane
52 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:03:15
On the Preview Thread yesterday I wrote how exciting it was to be on my way to Goodison and I quoted Dante's Paradiso. Sadly the reality did not match the Sentiment.

I, as always, played some music on my headphones on the bus under the River – It's All Right (Curtis Mayfield); Ain't that Peculiar (Marvin Gaye); some Van: Take Me Back and Piper at The Gates – trying to set myself for an afternoon of wonderment.

Mmmmm... so let's quote Dante again: “We were men once, though we've become trees... that which had pleased me once, troubled my spirit... do not be afraid; our fate Cannot be taken from us; it is a gift.”

Or maybe: "Abandon Hope All Ye Who Enter Here".

We have to hope that Moshiri and Koeman see what we see: the need for a complete overhaul of players, attitude, management, style.

It is this belief I guess that keep us going.

Take me back, take me way way back....

Let's see what happens in January. I normally do not expect or desire much in the January window but sadly I believe we cannot go on to May with such a poor squad.

Raymond Fox
53 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:04:11
Our squad is bang average, our only saving grace is that all the teams below us at present in the Premier League table are bang average too.

Apart from the miracle last season of Leicester, our League is totally predictable, why, because their squads have cost tons more than any of, shall we say, the also-rans.

We didn't actually spend a bean in the summer again... how the hell are we meant to compete with Man City, Chelsea etc!

The easy option is to blame the manager; yes, managers make mistakes but that's not what's wrong with our club. The bottom line is lack of spending, which is also the reason that all the teams below us are where they are.

Brian Harrison
54 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:07:46
Well, this game has shown that there are more questions than answers to our current predicament. Why can't seasoned international players realize during the first half that our tempo was too slow and we lacked any aggression? Why does it take the manager to point this out to them at half-time?

Seems like we have the same inherent problems that have been there for quite a while now. I think I counted in one spell in the first half over 20 passes and all in our own half, I thought that would have been the first thing to have changed from our previous manager's tactics.

But the real problem is the same one I have been banging on about in nearly every other post I make. This team is so devoid of goalscorers it's becoming embarrassing... even with yesterday's very average display both Bolasie and Barkley missed very easy chances in the 6-yard box. Even against poor teams, you have to take your chances, and the fact that we don't is a recurring fault.

I don't know why it took Koeman so long to realize that, at home against poor sides, we don't need two sitting defensive midfield players, especially when these sides take the lead. Having got the lead, all Swansea wanted to do in the second half was to protect their lead and, given their latest results, who could blame them?

But lack of creativity and the lack of goalscorers from the front 4 will cost us dearly till this problem is solved.

I would suggest that maybe if we are going to continue playing 2 defensive midfield players then we play the front 3 a lot narrower. So Bolasie and whoever is on the other wing would actually be able to play more link up play with Lukaku. This would also allow both Baines and Coleman to bomb on down the wings, as surely the idea of 2 defensive midfield players is to let your fullbacks attack knowing they will be covered if we lose the ball.

Laura Round
55 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:09:27
Jimmy 41 think I'd rather they save it for December 20th.
Ray Roche
56 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:12:35
George, I was also on the pre match thread saying I was bricking it, I could see the clouds gathering on the horizon from here.

"We were men once, though we've become trees" seems to have been taken to heart by most of the team, with regard to their mobility. Or maybe they've taken up this ludicrous "Mannequin Challenge" but can't wait to score a goal before attempting it.

John Graham
57 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:19:58
I do think that, in a year's time, there will be a lot of new faces in the squad. This is not Koeman's team, it's they players he had been left with and he has got to use them for now.

I am sure he already has his ideas on who he wants to keep and who to ship out. For me, the list of players to go would be a very long one. We have a squad of players who are either not good enough or won't put the effort in the the current game needs.

I agree with Fran (#34) these young players deserve their chance, they surely can't be any worse than a lot of the players who currently in the squad, and they will provide a lot more energy. Also, it would be a big boost of confidence to them and a boost to the fans who are fed up seeing the same old players recycled.

Come on, Ronnie, take a chance with a few of them. We need to find out if they are up to it and the only way to find out is to play them.

George McKane
59 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:35:41
Ray, I read your comments yesterday; I really believed we would do a job on Swansea –an incredibly poor team – but yet again we seem to have no ideas whatsoever on how to beat... well, anyone really.

I want Koeman to do well, of course, and I listened to him and saw hm with Lineker and it all sounds great... but, on the pitch, it's grim... seriously grim.

We can only hope that this is a work in progress and we need to wait – how long, though, is the question.

In The Dark House last night, the majority of the fans said they would support Koeman if he made wholesale changes and brought in the young players. They also said – although the new stadium is very exciting – when are we going to see real change on the pitch?

Incredibly poor reaction to the Chelsea debacle.

Best wishes.

Paul Conway
61 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:38:55
As a famous Liverpudlian once said...

It's gonna take money, a whole lotta spending money.
It's gonna take plenty of money.
To do it right.
It's gonna take time.
A whole lot of precious time.
It's gonna take patience and time,
To do it right...

Phil Walling
62 Posted 20/11/2016 at 12:48:45
You are right, George, the 'new stadium' is very exciting. But I'm over 60 and I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime!
John Wilson
63 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:03:27
I checked the 2015 annual turnover (total income) for mainly the big football clubs (ie Liverpool, Man City, Chelsea etc) in the Premier League. I know the turnover doesn't tell the whole story but I think it is a useful starting point.

Man. City: £351 million;
Arsenal: £334 million;
Liverpool: £300 million;
Chelsea: £282 million;
Tottenham: £196 million
Man Utd: £182 million
Everton: £125 million;
Leicester (to compare): £20 million

George McKane
64 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:15:11
Somebody said exactly the same last night Phil in TDH.

I am 67 (birthday today) and hope to see it sooner rather than later – but it's a strange conundrum... results/players leads to need for new stadium or new stadium leads to new players – and what type of players?

John Wilson
65 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:29:55
Moshiri is 61 himself, so he must be planning the stadium to be made during his lifetime.
Laura Round
66 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:34:15
From what I understand, George @64 (which is limited) – due to the Financial Fair Play rules, Moshiri can't just come in with loads of cash and buy a new squad.

I'm happy to be corrected on this but he said in the Jim White interview we can only spend the same as the previous season + £7mil. I don't understand it all but I believe investing in the stadium may enable us to spend bigger in future on squad??

John Wilson
67 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:41:52
Laura, yes, that's previous spending, & £7 million for buying players under the Financial Fair Play rules, I believe. The FFP rules are there so that no football club is unfairly advantaged when compared to smaller clubs like Leicester.
Laura Round
68 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:50:47
Right, John. Doesn't really work though does it! Just means you have to keep spending big every year... so the big spenders can still just dominate.

Anyway, Moshiri seemed to think the investment in the stadium would get the club in a better position. I don't know how that would work but he seems clear on what he needs to do... a proper announcement for the new stadium this side of New Year will settle me for now.

Ray Roche
71 Posted 20/11/2016 at 13:57:46
George McKane,

Many Happy Returns, you have my permission to neck a bottle of red. Cheers, Blue.

Ray Smith
73 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:10:24
I'm not a mathematician, but how can Man City put any package together for £200m, regardless of who the player is? Financial Fair Play rules appear to reward the more wealthy clubs, and penalise the not so well off. What kind of turnover is required to be able to pay such sums?

Undoubtedly Man City will not restrict themselves to buying one player! I'm confused, but Man City have spent 3 times more than us on transfers. However, are their crowd 3 times the size of Everton's, which I thought was one of the measuring factors of the Financial Fair Play rules!!

Bill Gall
74 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:17:54
To be blunt, we have too many players who are not good enough but are guaranteed their places weekly.

Jay Griffiths
75 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:24:50
Without Barry showing as the back-to-midfield link, we looked clueless in the build-up. Jags and Williams constantly went long with poor results.

I concluded yesterday that Jags and Williams are stoppers. Nothing more nothing less.

Laura Round
76 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:46:28
There's nothing fair about it, Ray, is there!! Just have to keep pumping the money in every year..
Eddie Dunn
77 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:48:50
John Wilson (#46). We are a "bang average" team and I would have said that if we had won 2-0 yesterday. If we had played well and created more ,and won by 4 or 5, then I would be more confident of progress.

I don't doubt Koeman; it is early in his tenure but it is long enough (imo) into the season, to see that our only victories have been against Stoke, West Brom, Boro' Sunderland and West Ham. I would be surprised if any of these teams finish in the upper half of the league.

We have lost to Bournemouth and Burnley, as well as Man City and Chelsea. I think it is fair to say that we are "bang average" and if we had beaten the bottom club, we would still be "bang average". I hope this is clear enough evidence.

Koeman needs time and money and I am hopeful he will improve us, but we need a lot of changes to be contenders for even the Europa League.

Mike Berry
78 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:55:05
if Swansea had been any good yesterday they would have murdured us.

I have a soft spot for Jags, but his time is up.

Laura Round
79 Posted 20/11/2016 at 14:59:58
Eddie we drew against City. Sorry to be pedantic but it was Super Stek week!
David Barks
80 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:02:31
And I lament the garbage football Koeman has us playing.

I lament that we continue to go into matches against relegation contenders with a single striker and two defensive midfielders, while even Moyes is sending his team out with two strikers.

I lament that we seem to have no offensive philosophy other than a player getting the ball out wide and sending crosses in, even though we only have one striker up top and available for the eventual poor cross that skies over everyone's head or is cleared out by one of the four defenders marking our one striker.

Geoff Williams
81 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:09:08
Jagielka gets all the stick but I'd pick him every time in front of Williams. Williams can't head a ball, he walks all the time and it was his apology for a tackle that ultimately resulted in the penalty.
Sean Patton
82 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:09:48
No, David, he needs 3 or 4 windows remember, as that is how long it takes to get a defender to pass a ball 10 yards to the midfield – instead of just launching it a la Stoke.
David Barks
83 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:15:51
Yeah, it's been surprising quiet on here in regard to us going back to a hoofball team. We're just hoofing it up field, often times to nobody in particular as Lukaku had made his way back to defend a set piece or actually show for the ball.

He has turned us into a hoofball team, but with a lone striker, at home to the team at the bottom of the league. But patience, right... must remember that. This must be part of that progress I keep hearing about.

Guido Blumberg
84 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:16:08
My patience with Ronald Koeman is coming to an end. In Argentina, we say "sell smoke" to someone who sweetens you with his words but in fact the reality is completely different. Well, Koeman is a great smoke seller.

The team loses points against opponents of null hierarchy. It's really frustrating. I'm tired of seeing the face of defeat in Ronald Koeman in every match and always hearing the same excuses.

Anthony Hughes
85 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:17:13
I don't get the two defensive midfielders at home either, espescially against the likes of Swansea. At the moment, there doesn't seem to be any grand coaching ideas or innovation coming from the coaching staff.
John Wilson
86 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:50:57
We can apparently stop goals going in – we just need to learn how to make goals go in. We have a limited £125 million income; Liverpool have nearly 3 times our income. I do not understand how we apparently have the money to buy several players – the ones who are good enough to score goals regularly.

Even with Leicester's income, which is about a 1/6 of Everton's, it's still seemingly good enough for their players to win the Premier League. If we lowered our aim, we may have attracted the right players rather than going for the best and most expensive.

Geoff Evans
87 Posted 20/11/2016 at 15:53:00
Deadwood needs to be sorted out, but Koeman's problem is the length of contract some of these under-performing clowns are on.

He's aware as well as anyone who contributes to these pages the majority of the shite he's inherited aren't up to Premier League standard and never will be.

This is the problem he knows he has to address but not one he's caused.

Eddie Dunn
88 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:22:07
Thanks Laura @79! My brain hurts.
Paul Conway
89 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:29:33
Geoff Evans (#87)...

As Clowns, I think they are performing rather well! :-)

Eddie Dunn
90 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:30:07
David Barks,

Martinez and Koeman persisting with the two holding midfielders suggests either that he is worried about the vulnerability of our central defence, and/or is erring on the side of caution, for fear of losing games and losing Premier League status. So many teams are set up to avoid defeat these days. Perhaps if he had individuals he could trust to do both the defensive and offensive duties, we would see a different approach.

Could the regular sight of us falling behind in games be due to this defensive set-up? Do we only invite teams on to us by doing this? It was clear yesterday, when we really went for it in the last 10 minutes, that we suddenly looked a different outfit.

Peter Mills
91 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:30:16
Happy birthday, George McKane. If we are reflecting on Paradise Lost, remember that "The mind is its own place, and in itself can make a heaven of hell, a hell of heaven".
Ian Hollingworth
92 Posted 20/11/2016 at 16:41:57
Football is a funny old game. Not too long ago, many comments on here eluded to us having the best squad in a long time. Now, we all seem to think they are mainly crap.

Of course it doesn't help when the Red Shite are doing well.

We need major investment on the playing front.

Andy Crooks
93 Posted 20/11/2016 at 17:07:55
David Barks, I agree. It seems to me that we are fearful, ready to nick a win. For now, I can accept that Koeman wants to keep us safe while he builds; his summer signings point to that. However, I believe that if he is not bold soon, by, say, giving a young player a chance, he will start to look like Moyes.

I cannot accept that he picked our best eleven yesterday. He has been fair to the old hands, they have had a run in the side but they are not good enough. He has had enough time to see what is available. We need a lift, we need our coach to find his best team soon. We need our players to be bold.

Let's have no more lamentable shite from, apparently, hurt players who know we need better. Shut the fuck up, respect the club and supporters, and try to show that you actually, really care. From coach to squad – just earn your money.

Peter Lee
94 Posted 20/11/2016 at 17:33:41
Management is about getting the best out of the resources at your disposal. You need to be prepared to take different approaches in reasonable time scales, pick the best and reinforce it with resources (read "players") that will take you further.

Conte got nowhere in his first few games, went to 3-4-3 and changed the picture. They concede more but score more to win more often.

Kopp introduced a style last season that his squad couldn't deliver on. He improved fitness and tweaked the squad and hey presto.
Conte is delivering what players of that calibre should. Klopp is delivering more.

Mourinho is getting no more and no less than the squad is capable of.

Koeman is delivering less than the sum of the squad parts.

Stephen Coles
95 Posted 20/11/2016 at 19:21:18
@94 Peter Lee,

How do Chelsea concede more now they've changed? They've just gone 6 games (all wins) without conceding any!!

Colin Malone
96 Posted 20/11/2016 at 19:59:34
All the kerfuffle over James McCarthy, Koeman had to set the record straight by playing James and Koeman was right on not playing him before... James was AWFUL.
Don Alexander
97 Posted 20/11/2016 at 20:40:28
Pete Lee, you excuse Mourinho despite him having been there just as long as we've had Koeman and despite the fact he's spent a vast amount more money. Weird.

You praise Klopp but don't recognise he's been in charge of their asylum for over a year. Strange.

Finally you state that Chelsea concede more since they changed to 3-4-3. Wrong. They've yet to concede once. Apart from that, you hit your thumb on the head!

Peter Lee
98 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:49:46
Don, I don't excuse nor do I praise anyone. I am making comparisons on the premise that good management is as I described.

Conte, Mourinho and Koeman all joined their clubs at the same point. Conte has much the better squad and, after failing to bring the best out of them, he changed things around. He is now getting more from them than most would have expected. Who would have bought Luis for example? (Apologies, I missed out the "might" in the comment about conceding.)

Mourinho did spend a lot of cash, but given the quality of his defenders and defensive midfield they are about where they should be.

Personally, I believe that we have a better squad than Man Utd. Not much in it but there you have it. We are underperforming in these comparisons, in my view.

Re Kopp, he inherited a poorly (maybe under-) performing) squad and made a difference from the outset. I doubt that anyone watching football regularly would have had them down as title challengers given the form of the Firmino of 18 months ago, the failure of Continuo at the same time to last the pace for more than 60 minutes, and the lamentable form and failure to fit of Lallana. Move to this season and I am still astonished at the performances he is getting out of Milner at left back and of Henderson, a player I considered to be sub-James McCarthy in quality.

Compared to Koeman, he has done, and he is doing a better job of management.

Andy Meighan
99 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:53:29
John (#46),

IF we were to have beaten Swansea... Yes, but we didn't, did we? And didn't even look likely to, did we?

Phil has expressed a valid opinion. And I couldn't agree more with him. And as Stan says, your post is based on assumption.

Well I'll assume something, shall I: We won't win a game in December See how you feel about Moshiri's appointment then.

Andy Meighan
101 Posted 20/11/2016 at 21:57:12
George McKane, happy birthday, pal. Have a good day and a few to drown your sorrows
Paul Hewitt
103 Posted 20/11/2016 at 22:28:06
What did people expect Koeman to do, turn us in to Premier League winners? Give the guy a break. He's been here 3 months, and will need a good 12 months to turn this totally shit squad around.

None of this squad is doing themselves any favours with piss poor performances. Give Koeman 12 months and I bet anyone this team WILL be challenging top 4 places.

Geoff Evans
104 Posted 20/11/2016 at 23:18:37
Paul (89): Excellent.
Mick Davies
105 Posted 20/11/2016 at 00:06:15
Colin @ 96, All the kerfuffle over James McCarthy - James was AWFUL

Clever of you to spot we had a player on the pitch who wasn't at his best. He's played his first game in months, but you single him out for criticism. I suppose he gave the penalty away or he was responsible for the abject surrender at Stamford Bridge? I really find this 'targetting' a player just because you don't like him, a little petty; McCarthy, the new Osman?

Anthony Dwyer
106 Posted 21/11/2016 at 00:25:41
After going alone to Goodison and watching the same game Koeman, watched, I'm bamboozled by his post match comments.

We was shocking for 80 minutes, not 45.

At home vs second bottom does not require a formation containing 1 forward and 2 defensive mids, simples.

Colin Malone
107 Posted 21/11/2016 at 00:42:02
Nick@105.

Yes, you're right – I singled James out. I watched a player who doesn't want to receive the ball from defence – as soon as he gets possession, it goes square or back. He dos not like receiving the ball when he puts his arm out, saying "Don't give it to me".

James McCarthy is a great stand-alone defensive midfielder, winning the ball then giving it to pressing players going forward. His work rate and tackling is second to none but he ain't a creative midfielder. He's a stand-alone defensive midfielder, in which he is very good.

Stan Schofield
108 Posted 21/11/2016 at 10:48:57
Peter @98:

It has taken Klopp time. When he first took over players could not adapt to his pressing style, but he said that they would eventually, because "they are young professional footballers". Well, they seem to have done, eventually.

Compare us, could be similar, it's early days, the team was unfit at the start of the season, and Koeman is working them on the pressing style (like Klopp did). Our performances are bad, but so were Liverpool's. They were all over the place in some games, were booed off by their own supporters.

I'm not saying the situations are identical, just that there are similarities, which tell me to be patient. Not infinitely patient, just patient. This squad CAN perform better, because they are young professional footballers.

Koeman took over a sick squad (apparently), so will need time. I will be expecting better performances as the season progresses, because the players should be able to adapt to his style. If they won't, then that's a problem seemingly beyond his control.

Stewart Lowe
109 Posted 21/11/2016 at 11:46:07
For me, the following have had their day and should be shipped out in the next 12 months and we rebuild from scratch:

Mirallas: Lazy, has one good game in 4
Barkley: Inconsistent, overrated, no football brain, time to move on
McCarthy: Clueless, looks lost, never rated him at Wigan either
Robles: Inconsistent, wants to punch every ball, not good enough
Funes Mori: Good defender, but not designed to defend like Koeman wants
Cleverley: Goes missing, loses the ball regularly, inconsistent
Besic: Nice guy but presence not big enough. Always injured
Lennon: Played well until he got a contract, now average at best
Kone: I don't really need to argue this one
Deulofeu: Given too many chances by too man managers. Average

This whole team still carries the Martinez stench and it's going to take 2-3 more transfer windows to ween that out.

And just for the record, I was never happy with Koeman's appointment in the first place. He has won 1 trophy (with Valencia, Copa Del Rey) in a 15-year managerial career, with Everton now being his 7th club.

Brian Harrison
110 Posted 21/11/2016 at 12:01:22
Stan (#108),

I agree that Koeman will need time, and yes Klopp had a whole season to asses his players and get them playing a high-tempo game.

But looking at both managers they remind me of the relationship that Catterick and Shankly had with their teams. Catterick was aloof from his players and a strict disciplinarian, while Shankly although also being strict he loved his players and they loved him.

Now I don't think I ever heard any players who played under Catterick say they loved playing for him. Yet nearly all of Shankly's players said they loved playing for him.

Koeman seems a little aloof from his players and, while I am sure they have great respect for him, he doesn't seem to have the same affection as Klopp does with his players. Yes, you have to let the players know who's boss, but it can't all be stick sometimes – the carrot can be just as effective.

Stan Schofield
111 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:00:25
Brian, yes, they do seem contrasting personalities. If Koeman could have a similar effect as Catterick (dream on, maybe), then I'd be happy.
Winston Williamson
112 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:22:05
Stewart (#109):

I agree with all those players, but reluctantly regarding Barkley. I agree his footballing brain is inconsistent, but I just think a lot of the younger fans love him and the younger fans are important long term. Plus, he might get wiser with age.

It may take 2 full years to get rid of the majority of the players mentioned, but get rid we must. They stink of a loser mentality...

Dave Abrahams
113 Posted 21/11/2016 at 13:34:21
Brian (#110), you might be right about Shankly loving his players, but his ego was such that he never loved any of his players more than he loved himself. It is also worthwhile remembering that after Liverpool won the league in 1966 they never won a domestic honour for the next seven years when they beat Newcastle to win the FA Cup.

During those seven years, Peter Robinson, Liverpool's secretary, said he regularly received letters from irate Liverpool fans asking him to replace Shankly, or as Harry Catterick called him "Rob Roy". He also at various times threatened to resign but was pacified by the then chairman to stay on.

His bluff was eventually called in the Summer of 1974, I think, when he offered his resignation and it was accepted. He was replaced by Bob Paisley and many Liverpool fans will tell you they preferred him to Shankly.

Jimmy Sørheim
114 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:20:35
This is the same old bull from Koeman. He must take blame here for not giving youth players any chance... and that stinks because, if Koeman cannot see how truly awful this squad is, then he is just as blind as Martinez.
Joe Edwards
115 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:36:05
I think its high time Ginger Ron gave Davies and Holgate a decent run and brought back Galloway from bench-warming for Pullis bench. Calvert-Lewin needs to be eased into the first team set-up.

Jagielka and Deulofeu are failures, Lennon and Cleverley also – all should be given their P45s and some pace and aggression brought in. I'm sick of these players letting us and the manager down.

Brian Harrison
116 Posted 21/11/2016 at 14:49:00
Dave

You are right about Shankly not winning a trophy for 7 years but his record was far superior to Cattericks. Shankly won the league 3 times the FA Cup 2 and the UEFA Cup 1.

Catterick won the league on 2 occasions and the FA Cup 1.

Then when you consider that Catterick had the biggest warchest for transfers than any British club at that time. Compare that to Shankly who had a pittance to spend. I agree about Paisley being a great manager but Shankly laid down the foundation.

Regarding Shankly having his bluff called and the board accepting his resignation. Well I heard a different set of events by somebody who was there at the time. I heard that Shankly was told that the club had agreed to sign a player without checking with him to see if he wanted the player. So on hearing the player was arriving the following day, he told the board that signing the player would be his last act for the club. He resigned a few days after signing the player, so for me a very principled man – not a bluff merchant.

John Hughes
117 Posted 21/11/2016 at 15:00:34
Brian, one must assume that the player in question was Ray Kennedy? Liverpool signed him as a striker and Paisley converted him to a midfielder. He earned legendary status at Anfield and sadly was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease in 1984.

I think the highest accolade you can give Shankly is by asking the average kopite who managed the club before him. Not many come up with an answer!

Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 21/11/2016 at 15:31:46
Brian (#116) Shankly had far more money to spend than any previous Liverpool manager – he signed St John and Yeats for very good sums to get them out of the 2nd Division, then spent good sums on Willie Stevenson and Peter Thompson plus Gordon Milne amongst others to get them going in the 1st Division.

Liverpool was Shankly's fourth club – he had done nothing with any of the previous three, in fact he was an assistant manager at Huddersfield.

Harry Catterick had put Crewe Alexander on a good footing financially and had built Sheffield Wednesday into a very good team; they finished runners-up to possibly one of the greatest teams since the war, Spurs. He also got Everton into the European Cup and we were drawn against the eventual winners, Inter Milan, losing by one goal over two legs.

Brian, you like Shankly. I'm a bit biased: I couldn't stand the man, with his childish rants against Everton, a team he turned to after his own club had turned their backs on him.

Finally, if he was a man of principle, why didn't he resign before he signed Kennedy, if he didn't want him? I think he stayed on hoping that Liverpool would ask him to stay. John Smith was a much stronger chairman than T V Williams and accepted his resignation.

To be honest, nobody really knows why he resigned but I'm sticking to my version. Harry Catterick was every bit as good as "Fish and Chips" and was his own man.

Geoff Evans
119 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:11:38
Shankly, Paisley, Catterick were all great football men and deserve the highest respect for what they did for both clubs.

Unfortunately neither Shankly nor Catterick were treated as well as they might have been by their respective clubs.

Stan Schofield
120 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:12:39
Catterick often used the the phrase "good football" to describe a game, whereas Shankly tended to use the phrase "plenty of pace". I believe this reflects a big difference between the two. Shankly didn't have the likes of Ball, Harvey and Kendall, nor our style of football then.

I understand that T V Williams was my maternal great uncle, and responsible for recruiting Shankly. But I became an Evertonian because we were just superior. And because my dad took me to see Everton v Aston Villa in 1961, with Alex Young making an impression on a 7-year-old.

Brian Denton
121 Posted 21/11/2016 at 16:42:51
Brian (#116) - that's a bit harsh on Catterick. One of Shankly's Leagues and the UEFA Cup were won when Catterick was very much on his last legs both as a manager and in health; and the same adjectives could be applied to the whole of EFC. In the sixties and early seventies the absurd 'one city, one club' rule kept us out of the UEFA Cup (then called the Fairs Cup) even when, for example, we finished 3rd in 1968-69.

I'm also not sure it is fair to say that Catterick had the largest war-chest of any manager, as though we were the Man City of the time; Alan Ball was the only really 'marquee' signing in the sense of a player with a national and international pedigree whom every top club coveted.

The fact is that Arsenal and Liverpool spent big on Peter Marinello and Tony Hateley, it was just unfortunate that they were crap and have been lost to history. Man U were also big spenders as well (Willie Morgan cost them as much as Alan Ball cost us).

So while I agree that Shankly's record is better than Catterick's, it was not 'far superior'.

Laura Round
122 Posted 21/11/2016 at 18:50:50
We bought our neighbour with us on Saturday. He's just turned 9. He is asking when he can come again. Bless him. Hasn't taken his badge off since the game. Hopefully haven't signed him up for a lifetime of disappointment! To be fair we've rescued him from his dad (a Villa fan)!
Andy Meighan
123 Posted 21/11/2016 at 19:49:00
Dave (#113), why did the Catt call him Rob Roy? I've never heard that before.
Les Netherwood
124 Posted 21/11/2016 at 23:51:18
I think this is the same rubbish as last season.

Jagielka has been very poor for a long time now... never wins a header and is a liability in the penalty area. Barkley is a waste of time and too slow with no brains, Cleverley is just not good enough and Gibson is too slow if ever he is fit enough to play, as is McCarthy who is always unfit. Lukaku has poor ball control, and the rest are not worth talking about.

Will the transfer window make any difference?... It will depend who is available...and who Billy the Blue wants to bring in. (What a Manager!!!)

Dave Abrahams
125 Posted 22/11/2016 at 15:13:26
Andy (#123), most probably because Rob Roy was larger than life and always in the limelight, paying Shankly a complement in a way. I think the full sentence was something like "I do things my way, I'm not like Rob Roy" showing the contrast between himself and Shankly.
John Davies
126 Posted 22/11/2016 at 15:14:45
Dave,

My father called him Fish and Chips. (Never out of the paper?)

As for Koeman, it is madness to want him out after 12 league games. These knee-jerk reactions will see a club going down the same route as Leeds, Forest etc. All clubs that changed their manager once every year.

To those advocating we get rid, a simple question: Who would you bring in?

Geoff Evans
127 Posted 22/11/2016 at 18:18:40
Laura (#122). As you say, Bless him.

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