Koeman at a loss to explain poor starts

Sunday 27 November 2016  211 Comments  [Jump to last]

Ronald Koeman found himself restating the same well-worn lines in response to his team's weak showing at Southampton today as they were punished for another slow start and a failure to make sufficient inroads in attack in the second half when they were chasing the game.

Once again the Dutchman was left to lament a poor first-half performance from his Everton side but he was encouraged by the second 45 minutes, even if his charges weren't able to grab an equaliser like they did last weekend against Swansea.

Koeman suggested in his post-match interview with Sky Sports that he, his coaching staff and players need to continue to work hard in training to find the answers to their poor form.

“I think the start by Southampton was better than our start, “Koeman said. “The 1-0 so fast in the game makes it difficult, they dropped back with a lot of ball possession.

“[There were] some good chances, I think, in the first half, also for Southampton. I think it was a game that had to see more goals, more goals from Everton and also more goals from Southampton because they got the chances in the second half to kill the game.

“But we also had good chances in my opinion in a good second half, much better than the first half, again. And that's the problem, how we start the game and then if they score, at 1-0 down, they can play their favourite system, waiting, waiting, dropping back with good defending and then fast players in front, that makes it difficult.”

Asked why he thinks his team continues to start matches slowly and fall behind, Koeman sounded less convincing than he has in recent weeks.

“It's sometimes difficult to explain why because it's the kick-off of Everton in the game and then after 10 seconds we lost the ball and finally in the attacking of Southampton they scored to make it 1-0,” he explained.

“There was not really good defensive positioning in the box and that makes it difficult, every game, 1-0 down you know to get a lot of ball possession will be difficult but I can't complain about our second half.

“We put a lot of effort in on the pitch and it's difficult to score the goals at the moment.

“It's all about winning the game. Maybe it's easy to say this but we need to work hard, we need to start better than we started today and that makes a difference.

“We need to keep focus on the training we're doing in the week and to have that performance like the second half today. But you also need a little bit of luck and of course more productivity than we have at the moment.”

 

Reader Comments (211)

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Vincent Borg Carbott
1 Posted 27/11/2016 at 19:57:31
Totally abject. Sack the whole lot, including Koeman, and play the Under-23s!!
Anthony Hughes
2 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:15:54
Dear me. He waffles some bollocks.
Mike Green
4 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:24:08
What a load of bollocks. 1-0 down after a minute makes it abundantly clear what you have to do over the next 89 minutes, which is attack. We managed 1 shot on target between conceding and the final whistle.

There is no excuse for that given we have a team of internationals, one of whom is reputedly one of the best strikers in Europe. Awful.
Michael Lynch
5 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:24:52
He's got nothing to say and he's saying it at great length. I just wonder what his last words are to the team before they go out?

Can't possibly be "Get in their faces for the first five minutes."


Mike Allen
6 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:27:31
Dreadful! 11 internationals on the pitch, bench full of internationals and the manager can't pick a team to compete. Same lacklustre performances game after game by the same players.

A third of the way through the fixtures and nothing to suggest better days ahead.
David Pearl
7 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:28:16
He needs to find a way to inspire the players from their general apathy. We have the talent. I can't understand it. Though I didn't expect anything else today as an end result, to have only 1 shot on target, and that in the 93rd minute, is abysmal.

I'd bring Deulofeu and Funes Mori back into the team for a start. Other than that, fingers crossed we can somehow pick ourselves up until we try again to find a Number 10.
Steve Cotton
8 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:32:02
Saying all that, we had 4 clear-cut chances. The RS would have put them in and won 4-1.

We played poorly but only have one finisher and that's a fact...

Kevin Rowlands
9 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:35:27
That's the point, Mike, the overated bag of hype ISN'T one of the best strikers in Europe and never will be. I honestly want to scream every time I see a poster write about all his goals and how they have saved us from relegation. He never played in a Moyes team and guess what: we were never relegated.

He is a cancer in the dressing room, his overall contribution to the team is minuscule. Our biggest problem as a team is, and has been the last two plus seasons, the final third of play where it almost always breaks down when he gets it and continuously gives it back to the opposition.

I really hope Koeman fucks him off, not next summer, but in January, it can't come soon enough.
Dick Fearon
10 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:48:48
Across the park, we saw a good manager galvanise his supporters who in turn roared on their flagging team to victory.

Koeman admits to being clueless and shows as much imagination and animation as a lump of wood. As for motivating players or supporters, he is clearly lacking.

He claims everyone works hard at Finch Farm yet I query his definition of 'hard'. We read about other clubs in the doldrums calling players in for extra training but not Everton. Is there a limit on training hours specified in their lucrative contracts?

Perhaps more time with a ball might hinder their visits to tattoo parlours. Any day now,we can expect them fly off to the sunshine for their annual mid winter break.

That's my rant for the day yet I bet it barely reflects what I and thousands are thinking.

Dean Williams
11 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:57:37
Koeman's a fraud. End of.
Roger Helm
12 Posted 27/11/2016 at 20:57:56
He just spent the whole match sitting down looking glum. I saw him stand up in the second half but I didn't see him say anything.

If, like us, you have players who are mediocre at best your only chance is to get them properly fit, organised and motivated, which obviously isn't happening.

Brian Williams
13 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:01:20
Before the game Koeman mentioned, yet again, the "pressing game."

There was no pressing whatsoever, none at all.

And if he thinks the second half was better, I can only put it in the context of: if you have to eat a shit sarnie and you have to choose between one with 8oz of shit and one with 6oz you're gonna pick the 6oz but you're STILL EATING SHIT!
Christine Foster
14 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:03:28
Let's be clear... There is a complete and utter failure to deliver a cross when the opportunity arises. Possession is pointless when no-one can deliver a telling cross or through pass.

No-one is willing to take responsibility anywhere on the pitch to dictate play, instead it's all about playing safe.

There is no pressure generated when precision and thrust is absent.

Who or what is to blame?

Tactics? Fear? Hiding? Wrong players?

Oscar Huglin
15 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:06:38
I can't believe the negativity towards Koeman on here. He's taken over from a manager that every single Evertonian was lamenting for completely stunting our development as a club at the end of last season, and yet you all expect him to have completely improved us by November?!

He's a manager, not a miracle worker.

Have a look down the table and imagine for a second if we'd re-hired Moyes instead.

Seriously, get some patience. Unbelievable.

Tony Abrahams
16 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:07:15
Kevin 9, I feel the same way about Lukaku, as you do, but to be fair to him, he's playing in a system that suits neither him nor the team.

Someone hits a bad pass over the top and he waves at them in acknowledgment, even though the pass was awful, and he should be fuming at them. Only reason I can think of, is that he's glad they are trying to play to his strengths, instead of asking him to constantly do something that he's just not very good at?

Clive Rogers
17 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:15:30
We must have the oldest back 4 in the Premier League.

Jagielka's legs have gone, and Williams is not much better on the turn. Neither of those two are commanding in the air. Every corner and cross was a problem. Baines looked past it today also.

Pete Edwards
18 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:20:42
I get the feeling it's gone from one extreme to the other.

I mean it seemed for all to see that Martinez praised the players, no matter what, so they became complacent and in a state (knowingly or not) of not being bothered.

Now, with Koeman, he appears to be the polar opposite and would bollock anyone who even dared leave the bog seat up which has probably shocked a lot of players and has made them somehow nervous, affecting their performance.

Big clear-out needed, like we didn't know already... interesting times ahead.

Darryl Ritchie
19 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:21:55
It's very easy to explain our present form. Two (2) shots on target through two (2) matches. Yikes!!!

Shelve the lot of them, and give the U-23s a go. Can't possibly do worse.

Trevor Peers
20 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:24:52
The problem with Koeman is he came for the money, not because of his love for Everton. He doesn't really get us at all, so far. We're a club with great traditions who demands loyalty, above all else.

He's on record stating his love for Barcelona, and has said some foolish things in the media recently. That's all okay when you're winning most weeks, but when you start losing regularly, then people start to question your desire, and after today it's not looking too good for him.

Armando Canaj
21 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:28:49
He knows, if he gets sacked, he'll get paid off, and handsomely.

He wasn't great at Southampton. He's not great here.

Question: are we going backwards under Koeman and his white-suited, polished teeth, tanned backroom staff? I notice they're rather quiet on Twitter now. They were commenting every fart when they joined...

Anyone want my ticket against Arsenal?

Brian Harrison
22 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:32:05
Another bad result and confidence in both manager and players is becoming a major problem. I wanted Koeman and was glad to see the back of Martinez but I am really struggling to see any improvement in results or style of play.

On his arrival, Koeman said the players needed to be a lot fitter, he also said he wanted to play a high tempo pressing game. Great that is exactly what we want and this is the style that Chelsea, Man City and the other lot play, which is entertaining to watch.

He has also said many times of late that we start to slowly, so I thought today if we did nothing else we would start quickly and play at a high tempo – especially as our opponents had played away on Thursday in the Europa league. Obviously with them scoring in the first minute set us back but, for the rest of the half, no high tempo, no pressing game. We played the same slow tempo that we did under our previous manager, and created absolutely nothing, in fact I was pleased to just go in 1 down.

Now I have said that Koeman will need and be given time, but I cant see us being able to play a high tempo pressing game with Lukaku and Barkley in the front 4. They don't seem to have any concept of when or how they are to press defenders and you can see the midfield thinking I cant push forward and press if the front 2 aren't otherwise there will be gaps all over the show.

This is a team devoid of goals and I bring this up in every post, I am even getting sick of saying it myself. But Bolasie, Barkley and Lennon or Mirallas are not natural goalscorers. Lukaku is good if he gets the ball on his left foot in the box, but his contribution to our overall build-up is poor.

I would hope come the January window the remit is to find forwards who score on a regular basis. I thought Bolasie would be a great addition; yes, his goal record is poor but whenever we played Palace he was always a threat. But rather than play the ball in front of him to use his pace and strength, we seem obsessed with chipping the ball to him in the air. But with tough home games coming up we need to start to up our game.

Koeman, nobody expects miracles but we expect to see the very beginning of the green shoots of the style you want to play. So, whatever it takes, make sure that against Man Utd,who will have a tough game in midweek, that we start on the front foot and look to get at them please.

Gerard Carey
23 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:32:48
Koeman has to take some of the blame too. Early on, he was credited with the improved start we made. Then, when he messed up in the League Cup, it started to go wrong. He picks the team on matchdays, he takes the training at Finch Farm.

Does he do tactics, set-pieces, different formations, include some of the U23s in training? To me, at the moment, he looks clueless. Even the bench today didn't have one U23 on it. I ask the question: Why not?

Minik Hansen
24 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:34:40
Like the commentator of the game I watched said, Koeman needs to be angry at the players before kickoff... I'm not expecting to enjoy December, so I won't get too disappointed every time.

Some good players we have, still waiting for them gel, maybe it started when Robles had a great game and was benched in the very next game. I expected more of Barry and Gueye playing together again.
John Malone
25 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:47:31
Koeman has got to earn his money as a manager and find a winning solution quick before this really does turn toxic!

Ian Jones
26 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:48:50
I am happyish with Koeman. I trust him to find a solution. I think he is probably as amazed at the performance of his players as we all are. Can't imagine he sends the players out to play like they do...

What I don't like his perceived inability to blood the youngsters time will tell.

Kevin Rowlands
27 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:50:31
Tony, he's not good at almost everything. You can play him the perfect pass and, within seconds, it's back with the opposition. You can pick him out with a great cross and he'll fuck it up (see Bolasie last week), and as for his heading ability????

Another thing I get fed up of reading is we don't play to his strengths... what fucking strengths? A top-class striker like Diego Costa will always make their own chances and be a complete nightmare for opposing defences; this big lump is a dream to play against – he's so fucking lazy and useless. Get him out of our club, Ronald.

I will make a prediction here and now: Once he is gone, we will be a far better team and the likes of woof woof or anyone else can call me out on that if that doesn't happen... I mean, how can it be much worse?

Andy Meighan
28 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:59:30
I'm not at a loss to explain our poor starts. It's simple: we've got a manager who hasn't got an ounce of personality. So consequently his miserable demeanour rubs off on our miserable under-achieving "couldn't give a fuck" players. Hence the shit performances and shit results.

Now witness the likes of Klopp and Conte who look like they're going to cry their eyes out when their teams concede a goal... the passion they show is infectious and rubs off on their players who look like they'd die for them. Ranieri was the same last season and is in the Champions League this season.

No, Koeman just sits on his arse, staring at his shoes when we concede and looks to me like he'd rather be elsewhere. His man-management skills are zero and he's got the personality of an asthmatic slug.

To say we played well in the 2nd half today is an insult to every Evertonian who went or watched that today It was shit from 1 to 90. And folks, believe me when I tell you, it's about to get a whole lot worse.

Not so much Man Utd their shite as well... No, I'm talking about Arsenal, Watford and Liverpool, who we can't even beat when they're poor.

I really thought Koeman would have well laid down a marker by now in terms of the playing style. No, it seems we've gone backwards. Now just remind me... how much is he being paid? Oh, and by the way... has anyone ever seen Ronnie boy smile? Cos I sure as hell haven't.

Steve Guy
29 Posted 27/11/2016 at 21:59:42
Koeman made confident substitutions earlier in the season and we reaped the benefit. Over the past few games, he seems to be lacking in this regard.

It was clear after 20 minutes that the team were performing no better than against Swansea. I kept waiting for changes which didn't come for far too long. When we went with Mirallas and Deulofeu we looked much more positive and (for short periods) Southampton were rocking.

All of this said, I won't be judging too harshly until after January. It could get worse before it gets better; not just because of our upcoming fixtures but because Gana and Bolasie are out for 6 weeks in January at the ANC. January is a big window for Koeman.

Colin Glassar
30 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:07:48
We need, we need, we need ... We need to cut his wages by 2/3 until he starts to get the team playing.
Gerard Carey
31 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:19:47
Colin, sadly doesn't work like that. You could include the players in that too, though, taking money under false pretences!!??.
Mark Daley
32 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:23:59
4 weeks to the derby. Can we avoid a massacre? I'll be glad if we only lose by one goal.
Liam Reilly
33 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:25:33
"Koeman's a fraud. End of"
"Cut his wages by 2/3rd"

Jesus H.
Seriously; the guy is playing with the cards he's been dealt. Throw in the kids? Yep, I'd like to see some of that but there's few managers that play the youngsters when the team's in poor form.

Here's the reality check: He is going to need the Summer transfer window! Just like Mr Kloop got, that all the biters on here apparently love.

John Charles
34 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:26:39
Koeman never seems to take any responsibility for our recently abject displays.

It is also disingenuous to suggest that the second half was in any way acceptable just because it was better than the totally appalling first half.

Patrick Murphy
35 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:28:02
I'm not really arsed about the derby who the fuck cares if they beat us they beat us so what, it's happened before it'll happen again. It's not as if there'll be an inquest by those in charge of the club or that the club will suddenly awaken from its stupor and decide that things need to change.

In fact, I'm not sure if we lost 20 derbies in a season, the club would care too much, but should we by some chance, win, they'll be rushing out DVDs for Christmas –that's the real problem, not the actual result of the game itself.

Mark Daley
36 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:32:53
Patrick, yours is the right attitude = not giving a toss about it. You're dead right. But deep down I can't stop hating it when we lose and wanting us to stuff the RS. And the RS just laugh or feel sorry for us on the Monday. Who'd be a sodding blue?
Phillip Warrington
37 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:33:27
Another display of what? Lukaku needs to be sold and quick his lack of effort when he doesn't have the ball is like a virus and spreads to other players. He clearly does not have his heart and soul in playing for Everton and is frustrating to watch.

Barkley needs a complete break from the game he has lost his way bring in Davies he couldn't do any worse.

Bolasie couldn't make crystal palaces first team and yet we payed 30+ million you cant say we don't have a player in the U/23 who could do just as good.

The way we are going, there is no way we will finish in a European place this season so why not blood the young players and, instead of buying another heap of 28-32 players for 㿀 to 30 million, sell the heap we already have in the January window.?

Then at the end of the season, spend big money on say the spine of the team: goalkeeper, central defender who can build from the back, central midfield playmaker, striker who scores regular and works hard for the team and wants to play for Everton.

Clive Mitchell
38 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:36:16
Last week I watched an unbelievably poor side snatch a point in the last minute against a side that were bottom. Today I've witnessed the most spineless, gutless, clueless, couldn't-care-less apology for a professional team performance.

And the manager watches on as if we're paying him a fortune to critique the team! Martinez got pelters for performances that were far better than this tripe, so here goes.

Koeman out. The guy has shown absolutely nothing. His judgement has involved bringing in a keeper who's not good enough, and spending 㿔 million on two players who aren't good enough to play for Everton.

Now he thinks that Aaron Lennon should start because he runs around a lot, and that Funes Mori shouldn't start because Jagielka and Williams used to be better defenders than him several years ago. It's crap, crap, crap, crap, crap.

He talks about pressing the opposition – this lot couldn't press a shirt and they clearly don't give a damn about the manager or the club. You're a fraud, Koeman, on your way.


Kevin Rowlands
39 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:40:10
Liam, spot on. It's no coincidence that the best performers in this team so far this season have been Koeman signings. He'll get rid of the dead wood and shite soon enough; it will take three or four windows but I believe it will happen.
Paul Holmes
40 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:40:36
The problem was Martinez. Koeman has only been here 4 months and has brought in four players to a team who finished 11th last season and would have been fighting relegation bar Lukaku's goals.

The bobby bullshit about the great players we have: Barkley, Niasse, Barry, Cleverley, you know the spiel, was utter bollocks, and we had to pay the fraud 㾶 million in compensation and he got the Belgium job, ffs!

It's going to take Koeman time because of the shit players he has inherited; give him a break.

Andy Meighan
41 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:46:40
Oscar – no-one is expecting him to be a miracle worker. Far from it.

What we are expecting is Ronald to inspire our players when we go a goal down or give them a major bollocking in the the changing room at half-time when, once again, we've under-performed

Which we have of late... Or have you been living on the fucking moon???

Colin Glassar
45 Posted 27/11/2016 at 22:59:54
Liam 33, I'm sure if you were on ٤m a year, you'd show at least some interest in saving your job.

Now I don't know what goes on behind closed doors but I do know that Koeman keeps on going on about how we need to start games quicker, press higher, fight for every ball etc... But what happens on match day? We start slowly, we don't get anywhere near the opposition and we couldn't fight ourselves out of a wet paper bag right now.

Koeman is a cold fish but that's his way I suppose and I won't criticise him for his demeanour on the touchline (I prefer that to clowns like Conte and Klopp) but he could show at least something, anything. I mean we've had the Glasgow stare, the Spanish chew, can't we have a Dutch grin at least?

John Raftery
46 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:01:10
Well, we finished today's game with all five of Koeman's signings on the pitch and looked totally incoherent.

Far from being one of the best performers, Bolasie is currently one of the worst. Stekelenburg is not convincing, Williams is too slow, Gueye incapable of hitting the target from twelve yards and Valencia is spending most of his time warming the bench.

Someone needs to have a word in Mr Koeman's ear that if he cannot drive out better performances than this, we won't be able to attract any worthwhile signings in January. Presently we are going backwards even from the dire level we saw in the closing months of last season.

Les Netherwood
47 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:05:20
Another dreadful day... the same lamentable rubbish.

The goal showed again that whenever the ball is in the air Jagielka is two yards away from the scorer. Why was he playing anyway?... How bad do you have to be lose your place?

Where are the promising young players we keep reading about? How much longer do we have to put up with Barkley who is too slow and half asleep. Lukaku who just does not get involved and loses the ball the minute it goes to him... and Bolasie who runs every where without the ball and loses it as soon as he gets it.

The shooting was really crap most of them don't even know how to kick a ball properly. I am afraid the future is not bright at all... we have no midfield to talk about and too much playing in our own half on our own. Sideways, sideways, sideways... absolute crap.

Clive Lewis
48 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:07:32
I don't buy into "When we get to the transfer window it will be okay" talk.

We had 5 players that Koeman has brought in playing today. Our youngsters don't get a look-in, and yet the best youngster playing was a Southampton player.

Clearly evident that our midfield does not have much creative quality. Defenders not overlapping and too cautious... in fact, the players look like they are being told not to try anything too creative.

Koeman is a manager that is too defensive; this is now costing us going forward.

Ray Robinson
49 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:09:00
Colin (#45), he could at least get up off his arse occasionally and get a bit animated on the touchline. Being aloof and detached is one thing; appearing not to give a damn is another.
Colin Glassar
50 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:13:30
Agreed, Ray. I don't want a raging lunatic doing a windmill impersonation but I would like to see some signs of life from the dugout. They say teams mirror the manager's personality.
Oscar Huglin
51 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:16:46
Liam #33. Yes. Thank you.
Fran Mitchell
52 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:17:53
The pressing game? Is it a myth?

Is he trying to to implement this style and the players are unequipped or is he unequipped at getting the players to play the style?

My hope is that last season Southampton went through a similar bad patch and went on to finish the season in excellent form.

Clive Lewis
53 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:27:57
Interesting that Koeman did not recognise Josh Sims debut from the Southampton academy.

Is Koeman totally detached from bringing young players through? He obviously knew nothing about the lad.

I'm starting to worry that maybe he cannot be bothered to coach youngsters, there must be a reason he doesn't give our youngsters any game time.

Kevin Rowlands
54 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:30:19
JR (#46), how convenient for you to pick on all of Koemans signings for the blame, btw how did the rest of the team who weren't his signings play? Er... let's not talk about that eh?

The team has been shite this season so far, I think we can all agree on that, but the fact is, like it or not, Koeman's signings (apart from Valencia) have been our best performers, and to actually have the balls to slag off Gueye who has been by far our best player, WTF?

Patrick Murphy
55 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:34:02
How old was the kid when Koeman was managing Southampton, Clive? FFS the world and his wife jumping all over Koeman for not noticing a young player in his youth squad. If running a Premier League club was a one-man job at any club why do we have all these hangers on at places like Finch Farm?

Manager bashing has become a sport for some people. We aren't playing well, the manager takes much of the blame for that, but where will it end? – Koeman won't buy from local shops shocker, he won't even live on Merseyside horror... etc etc.

Clive Lewis
56 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:36:10
Stekelenburg, Valencia, Bolasie our best players?

We need more players like these to improve us? This is what worries me come the next transfer window. If we get 3 players the quality of Gueye then we will be okay.

Clive Lewis
57 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:39:44
Patrick, 18 he was... 19 now, but still either didn't recognise the fact he had talent. What reason would you give why Davies hardly gets any game time, not good enough? Even to come in for Barry for 10 minutes?
John Davies
58 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:41:07
I was down at Southampton today. Fuck me Mr Koeman has his work cut out.

Stekelenburg: 2 decent stops second half but...
Coleman: One of our very few decent performers. As always.
Jagielka: Decent game but not aggressive enough. Needs to pass the armband.
Williams: Decent game but not vocal enough. Needs to be given the armband.
Baines: Where's the confidence gone? Needs to grow a pair and tell Lukaku to fuck off the free kicks. Feel for him and Coleman because they have fuck all in front of them.
Lennon: Anonymous.
Barry: Right off it today. Can't fault the effort though.
Gueye: Still putting in a great shift but where has the form from the first 6 games gone?
Barkley: OK in the last quarter of the pitch. Shocking everywhere else. Lazy brain, lazy body.
Bolasie: Not even close to justifying his transfer fee. Poor again.
Lukaku: Lazy, cheating, bastard. Doesn't play for the badge, the club, his team mates or the fans. Like a whore who lies there and does fuck all for the money. Horrible twat.
Subs: Jesus! Is that what we have! God help us. A couple of the youngsters have surely got to be given a chance? Tom Davies in particular?

Roll on January. Mr Koeman and Mr Moshiri, please spend some money – that is assuming you can convince any decent players to join us.

Colin Glassar
59 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:43:56
Oscar, Liam, Kevin, I'm not calling for Koeman's head as I know it's far too early for that. We were outplayed and outclassed by Chelsea and I recognise that some days you will come up against a team that is just having a blinder and shit will happen.

The Swansea game may have come a day too early as the squad only had one day to train together after the international break. I might give him the benefit of the doubt but he's had a week to work on things and now it appears our defence is falling apart, our midfield has disappeared, and our forwards have forgotten how to score goals.

It's his job to prepare the team tactically, physically and mentally but we seem to be totally void and inept in all areas. At least under Martinez we could play (sometimes brilliantly) for 45 minutes and then collapse. Now we seem to gift the opposition the first hour or so before we try some insipid reaction.

I thought this Dutch crew would at least instill some discipline and backbone into this lot but it's looking more and more like the tail-end of last season when the players simply stopped playing for the manager, club and fans. This is outrageous and it's the manager's responsibility to fix this, transfer window or not.

Patrick Murphy
60 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:44:39
Sorry, Clive, I don't have the answers and have already stated somewhere today that I would play Galloway and Davies in the current team with Seamus further forward. I can't see any reason to persevere with Barry, McCarthy, Mirallas, Deulofeu, Barkley, or Lennon.
Mike Berry
61 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:45:14
Were suffering because we have to many of "yesterday's men". Jagielka and Baines were woeful, Barry cant do two games to is usual high standards, Barkley and Lennon substituted, can you see them in a future team on their showing?

Added to that Lukaku was totally isolated often surrounded by 3 Southampton players and not a blue shirt could be seen with a telescope,.

Pressing game? They couldn't press their shorts from what I saw today. The only blessing was Southampton's poor finishing or it could have been another five in the back of our net.

Appalling today and Ronald has a massive clear out and replacement job on his hands. I would love to see Holgate and Davies been given a chance.

I cannot see much changing either unless we sign something special in January.

Phil Walling
62 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:47:44
Clive@53; I'm sure Koeman said in one of his early uttering how surprised he was that managers in the English game were expected to take responsibility for more than just coaching the first team squad.

I understand that's his sole job here so fair to assume he did no more at Southampton. That's why he'd never heard of young Sims.

Patrick Murphy
63 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:55:33
I meant Holgate, not Galloway. I always confuse myself with those two... I've no idea why.
Bobby Thomas
64 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:55:34
The players aren't having him.
Andy Meighan
65 Posted 27/11/2016 at 23:56:37
Patrick (#55), 'manager bashing' hasn't become a sport for me. I, like everyone else, go on what I see. And what I'm seeing is awful.

Koeman was manager of Southampton, so correct if I'm wrong – isn't it his job to oversee the whole thing and not just first-team affairs?

Of course, at Everton, he's got Unsy et al telling him what's going on at Under-23 level but, my god, he's being paid a fortune to manage... and, from where I'm sitting, he's not doing a very good job, is he?

I'll wager he doesn't even know who the likes of Walsh, Kenny and Dowell are... because he's that fucking arrogant, he doesn't think he has to!

Kevin Rowlands
67 Posted 27/11/2016 at 00:03:25
CL 56, who anywhere said that Valencia was one of our best players?
Peter Fitzpatrick
69 Posted 27/11/2016 at 00:12:14
The team is stale, but I would have expected Koeman to get more of a reaction from the players he inherited. Is there anyone who has kicked on since he took over? Not that I can think of. I can't see any game plan at all when they take to the pitch, which is mad because the Tottenham game showed how good they can be when the team close down and get in the faces of the opposition.

This had been absolutely non existent since then, and the only trend I can see in each game is the amount of hoofball we play.

Jags and Baines are finished, Williams is not far behind. Bolasie doesn't even bring the flair that we expected. Funnily enough, in the first half I thought it was only Ross and Rom that seemed bothered, despite what other posters thought. It's beginning to look like one of them situations where it just isn't the right fit for the club and the managers.

Oscar Huglin
70 Posted 28/11/2016 at 00:18:08
Colin (#59), fair enough. Well put.

My point is that some people are already calling for his head, and that's embarrassing. So much for the loyal fanbase we make ourselves out to be – his first season isn't even three months old.

Mick Davies
71 Posted 28/11/2016 at 00:19:34
Patrick Murphy, are you Koemans agent? If you live anywhere on Merseyside you mustn't socialise with anybody, as losing to our red neighbours is one of the worst events in my life.

I must love Everton too much I suppose, and being a Blue throughout the last 5 decades, I know a useless manager after suffering so many.

A doctor is paid a minute fraction of what that Dutch fraud gets, but could you imagine the media if a consultant told a patient he doesn't know what's wrong, and couldn't diagnose the problem? If he just sat there for an hour or more saying and doing nothing to assist the patient?

I just hope Koeman does one decent thing and resigns, saving the club more compensation; that one match under Unsy was the best we've played in about 2 years, so to blame the players for not looking fit, not playing to any obvious system, and being picked week-in & week-out though massively out of form, is down to the boss.

David Booth
72 Posted 27/11/2016 at 00:23:27
I really haven't seen ANY sign so far that Koeman has a plan or knows what to do.

And to all those of you who are commendably pleading for him to be given time – which I cannot disagree with – and are advocating the January transfer window as some sort of salvation, I would advise you to get real.

We are buying no-one of any significance unless we sell Lukaku. All we did before the start of the season was spend the Stones money.

And if Stekelenburg, Williams and Bolasie (plus Valencia, who appears just marginally ahead of Niasse in our new manager's plans), are anything to go by, world-beaters, born leaders, playmakers and team-changers will not be posing with a blue shirt for the media.

A third of the season already gone and we have not had one good 90 minutes yet, nor seen a shred of new strategy on the pitch.

Sometimes you just get a feeling that things are not going to work out and that is being magnified with every nondescript, passionless, embarrassing game we put 11 on the pitch for.

So I make no apology for being a pessimist for once. Tolerating what we have seen so far is unacceptable and we need to make that clear.

If we just shrug our shoulders and keep making excuses like this, we get the team, the club and the ethos we deserve. This has been appalling so far and the players and manager are ambling their way through it.

If this 'straight-talking' Dutchman is all people say he is – time he started to prove it. Do some straight talking with the players Mr Koeman and change the system. For god's sake, do something different, because your plan A isn't working

Give Valencia a game up front with Lukaku and try the revolutionary concept of two, yes TWO strikers. Play the youngsters instead of constantly shuffling the pack and hoping one day that everything will just gel by chance or through the probability of repetition.

Stop this ridiculous predilection with two defensive midfielders. It stopped working with Martinez two years ago and we're sick of it.

Get the players at it from the kick-off, into tackles, chasing the ball, harrying opponents, moving it forward quickly and get men in the box.

Right now, watching Everton is like watching England: eleven allegedly-talented players who don't appear to know each other, what they are supposed to be doing and lack any form of belief, confidence and will to win.

The fans know what is going to happen every time though and the players can consistently be relied upon to prove them right within minutes – or 44 seconds in today's case.

We can see what needs doing. Why can't Koeman?


Patrick Murphy
73 Posted 28/11/2016 at 00:24:56
Peter (#69)

Perhaps, Bill Kenwright has been right all along: hire a hungry young manager with fresh ideas and an appetite to do well and that leads to enthusiasm from the players and supporters and at a fraction of the cost too. However, that only worked up to a certain point and didn't bring the honours that we all wanted.

Hire an experienced, seen it all, done it all (at least as a player) type manager with no fresh ideas with a world weary demeanour and suddenly the team who had much room for improvement based on the last two years, now become even more lethargic and downtrodden than they ought to and the supporters feel as if they are watching a box-set of previous games, week-in & week-out.

If you were to ask me [blue-tinted glasses removed] who would best suit Everton FC at this moment I would have to say that Howe would be my choice – could he be successful at Everton FC? I don't know... but I preferred watching his team today than I did my own.

Kevin Rowlands
74 Posted 28/11/2016 at 00:25:20
Ross Barkley? Me personally – I have a lot of hope. If you put him in to the Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs team, I think he would thrive and be outstanding because he is surrounded by good players.

Right now, he is playing with bog-average shite, biggest culprit being that lump of over-hyped crap up front. He will come good once the garbage is moved on.

Don Alexander
75 Posted 28/11/2016 at 02:08:03
Due respect to the anger expressed re Koeman but we have to respect some basic rules that the players patently don't.

By the time I was 10, I knew that to be a player I had to be able to control a pass to me, then pass to a team-mate, and then run into a position to give him an option to pass to me. At that age, I knew nowt about offside or anything else but the shower of shite now turning out for us look like they're in denial of even these basics, and to me that spells mutiny.

Koeman has been signed on by Moshiri. Moshiri has promised great things. Moshiri now needs to act to make his/our club even slightly attractive to any player/s at all who are deemed necessary to make good on his investment and, by the way, the enjoyment of the fans who will make or break his enterprise.

Mark Andersson
76 Posted 28/11/2016 at 02:20:50
Kevin Rowlands, I get the feeling you don't like Rom... just say it out loud, you will feel better. Koeman thinks he's great – one of the best strikers in Europe.

I think he will be sold in the summer, but not for anything more than about 㿔 million. That can be spent on two average players to fit in with the rest of the squad. Happy Days...

Habib Erkan Jr.
77 Posted 28/11/2016 at 02:26:16
One sign of insanity is doing the same thing repetitively and expecting a different result; it is not the manager. It is time to rid the dead wood starting in January.

In the meantime by all means bring on Holgate but replace the Aaron, Kevin and Gerry twits with Coleman.

Put Davis on the bench instead of Cleverley. And make a statement and take the captain's armband from Phil and give it to Coleman or Williams.

Andrew Lum
78 Posted 28/11/2016 at 04:07:14
Can Koeman get Lukaku to watch a video of the match and learn from Charlie Austin how to press from the front, movement, being a team player and basically putting in a decent shift?

Champions League?! Can't even turn it on against Swansea and Southampton. This bunch of losers have had enough opportunities. Please give the young players like Davies a chance. At least they care.

Benny Snow
79 Posted 28/11/2016 at 04:15:58
So sick seeing the same team sheet and formation, week-in & week-out. Where is the goal machine Kone?

John Pierce
80 Posted 28/11/2016 at 05:04:15
For me, it is simple. The playing squad are a known quantity, several decent players with good traits but not enough to make then consistent and desirable to others. The rest are average by the standards of the Premier League.

So we know performances are going to be erratic. Koeman has been open and clear who he doesn't rate and this has totally backfired. The players rightly lambasted on these pages have decided they will do nothing to either prove Koeman wrong or get themselves a move.

We are a mid table side with a manager who is happy to rub everyone up the wrong way. I totally get that, but Ron lad, you need to win games. You ain't; 1 in 9 is abject. Koeman perhaps needs to assess his own performance as brutally as he has others.

As per my other posts, 7th minimum, Europe a must or move on.

Have to say my heart is being slowly broken by Everton, piece by piece. Unrecognisable in those royal blue shirts.

Rob Nunn
81 Posted 28/11/2016 at 05:23:47
I feel like I have wasted the best part of my life following Everton and being disappointed at every single opportunity. I really did not think we could play as badly as we did against Swansea but we outdid ourselves yet again.

Every other team in the Premier League has a positive but I struggle to find one positive in this team. Bright sparks from the U23 side are overlooked every single week. How long will it be before they go onto better things outside of this club? The manager, such as he is, should be on a final written warning of termination without compensation. That's what would happen in the real world. Its shocking that considering our "history" we still have to suffer sitting through unmotivated players and an inept continental has been who thinks he can be a manager.

Anyone who brings their family into a business is clearly not in their right mind. And the owners that let him do that are more culpable. I don't see brother Klopp across the park. I never thought I would agree with my wife on football matters but she is (as usual) correct. She supports Liverpool.

Thank you, Koeman and Co, for undermining the little bit of respect I had. The wife makes better Yorkshire puddings than me and she is Indonesian. I can live with that slap in the face but to watch that shite last night was really too much.

Brian Porter
82 Posted 28/11/2016 at 06:24:25
Koeman is rapidly showing us that he really has very little to offer as an Everton manager. I'm now in my 58th year of supporting this great club of ours, starting when I was six years old. Koeman just doesn't 'get' what Everton is all about. We expect, no, we demand that those who wear the royal blue shirt show some feeling, some passion for the club which is then reflected in their play. Same goes for the manager.

We used to criticise Martinez for playing favourites, Koeman is no better. It's significant that our god early season run, and our last win (and clean sheet), came with Funes Mori in the team in place of Jagielka who now looks more of a has-been in every game.

People are quick to knock Valencia who hasn't had a decent run of games to show what he can do, despite a good scoring record at international level. Koeman does the same things over and again, makes no effort to inspire or cajole his players from the touchline and refuses to think about adding a touch of youth to the team.

Inter got rid of Frank de Bier after 85 days, so I disagree that it's too early to talk about getting rid of Koeman if it becomes clear he's not the man for us. We have players who can score goals as they proved under Martinez. It was our defending that was shambolic back then. Now, we're just a shambles everywhere and who is in charge of that shambles? Koeman of course.

Plain ordinary League 1 & 2 managers can motivate their teams to play above themselves in matches against Premier League opposition so why can't Koeman motivate a team of proven internationals?

Something isn't right and Koeman has to take the blame. After all, he's happy to take the money the club is paying him. Time to try earning it, or walk away, Ronald.

Andy Meighan
83 Posted 28/11/2016 at 07:47:36
Colin Glassar — you prefer him to clowns like Conte and Klopp? Have you seen where them two clowns' sides currently lie in the table? Some clowns they are...
Marc Sansum
84 Posted 28/11/2016 at 08:09:44
You lot of whinge-bags are unbelievable. Where did them across the road finish last season with the new messiah? They've given him time.

I suspect Koeman moved for the players he did, as they were already settled in the UK, rather than grabbing a load of unknowns from abroad.

For all the hot air on this site, we are still 7th

Paul Smith
86 Posted 28/11/2016 at 08:51:11
Monday morning after St Mary's, get rid! Koeman isn't the man for the job.
Paul Conway
87 Posted 28/11/2016 at 08:51:20
Before he took the job, he has proved he is a better manager, than they are players. IMO, in retrospect, he walked away from a better team to take charge of us, as well as a higher payday.

Deulofeu, Barkley, Miracles, Jaglieka, Baines, were all lauded by a lot of ToffeWebbers, and were shown plenty of patience and time to prove they are all shite!

He can hardly be blamed for their shite performances. He didn't play! I'm pretty sure if he wanted to slip into a kit, he would have put a better shift in!

Give him time. A couple of transfer windows at least

Joe Henry
88 Posted 28/11/2016 at 08:53:50
Miracles don't happen overnight... and it looks like we need eleven of them.
Nicky Styles
89 Posted 28/11/2016 at 08:54:30
It'*s been said that Koeman is quite the strict disciplinarian. Maybe this is rubbing the players the wrong way.

As the lads on Toffeetv so rightly pointed out, it does seem like many players seem disinterested. This could be as a result of Koeman's man-management style...

Stan Schofield
92 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:05:49
Since some posts are saying how good Klopp is, some perspective is needed.

When he took over, Liverpool produced some abject displays, and were booed off by their own supporters. He did his nut about the difficulty players had adapting to his system, and said it would take time, but that the players would achieve it because "they are young professional footballers".

Well, looks like they're now getting results. Also, they rely a lot on Coutinho, but who a year ago was crap and couldn't last more than an hour. So, how times change.

In other words, let's give Koeman a similar chance that Klopp was given, instead of doing drama queen impressions.

Simon Dutton
93 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:06:43
I am amazed at the amount of crap the manager is getting, a bit like last season, and the players are once again getting off lightly.

This is the same wonderful squad, with a couple of exceptions, we had last season that downed tools that Koeman has to work with. Has anybody considered that the players are not up to it?

Surely if this manager and the previous manager can't get results with this squad then maybe the squad is to blame. Whether that is they are playing to their full abilities and are just not good enough, or are incapable of carrying out the managers instructions.

I have never seen such a static Everton team in the final third. Nobody moves off the ball.

Jay Woods
94 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:22:22
There can be no doubt, the players are culpable in this mess too. But when I look at the headless chicken that was LFC at the end of Rodgers' tenure and the different animal that Klopp quickly turned them into long before this summer's spending spree, I have to say the manager's outlook and work ethic still play a massive role in how a team performs.

Koeman's motto may as well be "Now let's not get excited". Contrast that with the palpable, infectious passion Conte and Klopp show during every game.

Amit Vithlani
95 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:27:52
Two statistics revealed by the commentators during the game angered me:

1. We have run the 4th lowest kms in the league;

2. In only one match have we out run the opposition – Sunderland.

This squad is reverting to its bad habits from last season.

I then noticed how much play is slowed down and held up in the final third when Barkley and Lukaku had possession yesterday. Lennon was unable to beat his full-back, whilst Bolasie only started to get to the by line until after Barkley went off.

Lukaku meanwhile got in the way and just had a terrible game. Whether he has lost confidence, form or can't be arsed... who knows?

Koeman is stuck with this group of under-achievers for at least two more windows.
He has made some bad decisions but he is likely to remain manager for the near term as he is Moshiri's man.

I say cut him some slack. The squad has a problem and Lukaku and Barkley are contributing to the malaise.

He does however need to take action on the back 4 which is far too open. I am not in favour of dropping Jags. He played badly again but in my book Funes Mori is simply unreliable – the Anfield derby still comes to mind.

If he is to change the back 4, bring Holgate in push Coleman up in place of Lennon so we get some aggression and strength down the right.

Time to bench Barkley and go 4-4-2, many have been calling for the kid from the U23s and I say, Why not? With an off colour Barkley benched, this should mean Bolasie gets the ball quicker down the left so he can charge at the full back and give us width.

As for Lukaku, he should be given a couple of games on the bench. Valencia was surprisingly good in the air and it would be absurd not to give a couple of starts in the Premier League.

Yes, Koeman has inherited a squad which does not put a shift in. Yes, he deserves more time. But it's time he made some big decisions and used his famous honesty to leave out the under-performers. That includes Lukaku.

Neil Quinn
96 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:28:42
I think we're crying out for two players in particular.

Firstly – an Arteta (in his pomp). We've never replaced him.

Secondly – a Cahill. Somebody to get in the faces of the opposition, support Rom & throw themselves at a header occasionally. We've nobody who does that.

Steve Hogan
97 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:30:23
Stan (#92),

The voice of reason, abject display yesterday, but the hotheads want the manager fired 30 minutes after the game had finished.

Let's judge him in 12 months time, not after four months, a lot of those players yesterday simply won't be around after next summer.

Not pleasant to watch at the moment, but getting rid of Koeman, and bring in who?

Exactly.

Stan Schofield
98 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:38:30
Jay @94:

It's a bit premature to criticise Koeman's relatively sober style. If we were winning, it would be a great style, and if Chelsea or Liverpool were struggling then their managers' styles would be a pain in the arse.

You're just doing a bit of back-fitting to explain bad results, but it's too early.

Ray Roche
99 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:40:12
Patrick Murphy (#55),

You say "How old was the kid when Koeman was managing Southampton Clive?"

Doesn't matter how old he was, Koeman didn't bother watching the youth teams anyway. And that comes from the Saints web pages I've been haunting for a while now to gauge their reaction/opinion etc. of Koeman both before we got him and afterwards. I've said before and I'll carry on saying that Saints fans were pissed off with his indifference to the Academy down there.

I read a couple of weeks ago that Koeman has only watched our Under-23s once this season. Once. Walsh apparently watches every game that's played. (This is the Koeman that fucks off from Finch Farm bang on time every afternoon, no hanging about watching Davies etc. for him.)

This guy needs to abandon the Dad's Army shower and inject a bit of youth, passion, energy AND the skill that some of our young players possess.

Jags has been a wonderful servant to this club but his days are surely numbered now. I don't want his lasting impressions of this club to be the abuse and hounding he'll get from the terraces if he's being played for much longer.

If there's one thing Goodison is good at, it's slagging off our former heroes once their star has faded.

Eugene Ruane
100 Posted 28/11/2016 at 09:56:11
'Koeman's motto may as well be "Now let's not get excited". Contrast that with the palpable, infectious passion Conte and Klopp show during every game.'

Fuck me, 2 + 2 = 652 straw clutching.

So basically dance about on the line like a fucking pot-herb = success. ("That's not what I'm saying." – yes, it is).

If you want to see 'palpable, infectious passion', take a look at 97% of number 2 cropped, sheepie-wearing Sunday league side managers.

'Winners' is not the first (or 2 millionth) word that'll go through your head as you watch them shriek, dance like monkeys, and turn various shades of purple.

If Chelsea or Liverpool win trophies with these managers, it'll be because they have good players, good coaches and good game-plans/tactics etc. And if you can put those things together and get results, I don't believe supporters give a shite what the manager's demeanour is.

And I guaran-fucking-tee, results-wise, should the shit hit the fan for the lovable Reds, they will turn on Bingo SO fucking fast and all that 'infectious passion' will become "He's makin' a fucking twat of the club, actin' like a nob 'ead like.." etc.

Link

Mike Allen
101 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:04:08
We have a squad of current and experienced internationals, along with one or two good players from the academy (who by the way are not getting a look-in), the players have one of the best training facilities in football, so I would expect at the very least that the manager and his backroom staff can get a squad together on match days to at the very least compete.

A third of the season gone and we are still waiting for something to happen; no direction and little or no enthusiasm from many of the players; token or no challenges for headers or 50/50s. I didn't expect us to get a result from every game but I thought like many other Blues that we would at least be competitive.

Just another Blue moaning? Maybe so... but what a let-down.

Ray Roche
102 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:07:37
How do you get an old lay to say "cunt"? Get another old lady to shout "Bingo!!"

OK, it's got fuck all to do with the thread but the depression and suicidal demeanour of some lads needs help in lifting. Might raise a smile.

Paul Conway
103 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:12:42
Kevin Rowlands (#74),

With all due respect, I think Ross Barkley is part of the problem, and should be moved on... maybe Moysie will take him to Sunderland?

He would not get a sniff into a top 5 outfit. How many top clubs came clamouring for his signature, and how many still are?

In order to sell him for 㿊 million, we would have to throw in Mirallas and Deulofeu as a job lot... of failures!

Brian Harrison
104 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:16:06
Look, the bottom line is we are all very disappointed with the results of late, but calls for Koeman to be sacked are ridiculous. I had hoped that we may have seen the style alter since Martinez but it seems that it is going to take longer than we all hoped.

What I would criticize Koeman for is criticizing players in the press; by all means rip them apart but do it at Finch Farm – not via the media. As I can't see any mileage in this approach, and it may have caused some rifts within the team.

I think it's all well and good saying you want to play a high tempo passing game, but the question is do we have the players to play that system. Klopp got rid of Benteke because he realized that Benteke was incapable of playing that way. He also wanted forwards who could inter change and were good on the ball.

For me, neither Lukaku or Barkley can play that high tempo passing game, so Koeman has to change his style slightly or replace these two with players that can play that system. Now Lukaku has been a very good goal scorer but gives us very little outside the box and his poor control prevents him playing clever passes in and around the box.

But as fans, yes, express your views as strongly as you like on ToffeeWeb and other outlets but we need to stay strong inside Goodison. Otherwise we could find that opponents will use any negativity from the crowd to our players to help themselves.

Yes, we are all disappointed, but the manager will be given time, so let's give him time to turn things around. Now if he hasn't into the middle of next season with 2 transfer windows behind him then he may not be able to ask for patience.

Clive Rogers
105 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:39:32
Brian,
Well said.
Teddy Bertin
106 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:42:02
On the plus side, 㿨m on this man and Bolasie would have been a total disaster:

Moussa Sissoko: Tottenham expected more – Mauricio Pochettino

We don't need players only looking for a pay-day and a stepping stone (which I know most are). We need genuine desire to win football matches and I don't mean to just win trophies. I mean to go play an away game when your team is midtable with nothing to play for and still put your body on the line to win a game of football. That is what we lack.

Williams and Gueye have both shown signs of that at least, so these players are out there. We're never gonna get that from Rom, Kev, Del, Yan, Tom, Aru or Enn.

Franny Porter
107 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:44:16
If it was up to me, which it isn't, I'd go with something like this for the Manchester United game:

Stekelenburg;
Holgate, Williams, Funes Mori;
Coleman, Baines;
Gueye, Davies, Barry;
Dowell;
Lukaku.

Phil Walling
108 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:47:03
Brian, perhaps you would be less critical of your fellow posters if the Editors put a ban on our criticizing Koeman on ToffeeWeb?

Alright to do it in the pub but not in the public domain. And calling for the Dutchman's dismissal should invoke a lifetime ban.

After all, isn't it time all Evertonians learned to be PATIENT? We can't expect to be winning trophies EVERY year, can we?

Craig Walker
109 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:55:49
There have been a lot of false dawns in my 42 years of supporting the Blues but I've never known things go from such optimism to the current level of gloom in such a short space of time.

I love this football club and it is a massive part of my life but I'm reaching the end of how much I can take now. It wasn't supposed to be like this.

A billionaire owner, a world-class manager, a striker who can net 20 goals a season, a successful youth system, one of the best scouts in the game. We lose a cup tie against Norwich and the wheels fall off spectacularly. I'm still amazed that we sit in 7th place.

I can see what needs to be done but why can't our management and coaching staff? I'm sick of repeating myself because what does it achieve sounding off on ToffeeWeb apart from feeling like you've got something off your chest?

The crux of our problem is that we are so desperate for success that we big up the players during the close-season. We get a couple of decent results and then we're going to "get top 4" or "even win it".

In reality, I'd like someone to tell me who are the genuinely class footballers at Everton. How many of them would get in Chelsea's team or in the RS side? I think "none" is the answer and that's the main issue.

Ross Barkley – too slow. Puts his foot on the ball too much and slows the game down. Has no brain. Get shut whilst he would still command a decent sum.
Gareth Barry – good servant but way too slow.
Lukaku – when he isn't scoring, which isn't often now, he contributes nothing. I honestly think Kone or even Niasse would have offered more than Rom yesterday. At least they would have wanted it.
Williams, Jagielka, Baines – Well past it. Living off former glories.
Coleman – Nowhere near as effective as he used to be but he tries.
Idrissa Gueye – One of the rare plusses but another player who cannot keep a ball down and thinks he needs to break the back of the net to score, when a side foot would result in a goal.
McCarthy, Besic, Gibson – Not good enough. No attacking capability. We need a Coutinho – not a workhorse who just runs around.
Mirallas, Deulofeu, Bolasie – Glorified Aiden McGeadys. Can do the hard bits but not the critical aspects which win games. How many players do Everton get like this? Deulofeu needs to stop losing the ball and throwing his arms up in the air. It's becoming one of the most annoying Everton cliches.
Funes Mori – should have been offloaded after the Anfield debacle but I'd prefer him over Jagielka.
Stekelenburg – Has acquitted himself well.

What we need:

Lose the sentiment and get shut of the deadwood;
World-class goalkeeper
Leadership and strength at the back;
Creativity and goal threat from midfield;
Intelligent wide players;
Forward players who can get 20+ goals and can finish;

What we'll get:

Another demoralising Christmas, a few token signings in January, more false hope and then we can do it all again over the summer.


Paul Burns
110 Posted 28/11/2016 at 10:56:00
Ray, you could also show an old lady a picture of Jurgen Klopp.
Matt Muzi
111 Posted 28/11/2016 at 11:20:00
From the onset of this season, I have always felt that – as long as we don't get drawn into a relegation battle, have a good cup run it would be okay, a European place – a massive bonus. I'll make my firm opinion on Koeman when he's had a full season and at least two transfer windows to shape his team.

The issues we have IMO, are a number of first team players, whose best days are long behind them, players bought in by our previous manager who are not up to scratch, a squad, who before Koeman came in were tactically and physically not up to it, so he already had an uphill challenge.

Then there's the disastrous summer transfer window, which left us with one first choice striker, no new number 10/creative central midfielder , issues in the defence and no number one goalkeeper.

Like others on here I'm getting very concerned why Koeman doesn't seem to be considering some of our Under-23s, Davies & Dowell, being the main players I would like to see more of. I was optimistic at the start of the season when Holgate was playing, that other players from the Under-23s would be introduced.

I personally would be very surprised if we are able to get a number of players in who will improve us in January. There's no doubt we need a massive clearout and a complete overhaul of the first team, I can't see that happening quickly.

Koeman is going to have to prove his worth over this season, so we'll see how good a manager he is.

Mike Doyle
112 Posted 28/11/2016 at 11:56:25
The refusal to drop poor performers (or at least a few of them) simply sends out the clear message: "no matter how poorly you play your position is safe".

I was expecting changes after both Chelsea and Swansea. Nothing happened so I'm expecting a similar line up against Man Utd.

And what was that old saying about repeating the same actions and expecting a different result??

God help us.

Steve Woods
113 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:04:40
Frank Porter @ 107, you could well be right that 12 man team might just have enough to beat Man Utd. But I'm not going to be holding my breath!
Bobby Thomas
114 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:05:00
This squad is suspect in character with several players who are taking the piss, coasting, and have done for over 2 seasons now.

The tone is set by the "great in the dressing room" boy up top, Lukaku. Too good to be here, does it when he feels like it, rarely provides an outlet, is crap at playing loan striker and all in all is a "1 performance in 4" player, if we're lucky.

Same with all the attacking players. Have you seen Ross Barkleys stats away from home. He's invisible. Bolasie is more of the same as Deulofeu and Mirallas, inconsistent, no product and, in his case specifically, shockingly overpriced with little product and a teenage level of showboating which is ridiculous for a 27-year-old. Lukaku and him get on like a house on fire apparently. No surprise there.

These players need dealing out.

Lukaku and his ego needs to be shipped out in the summer. He sets the tone up top and he gives nowhere near enough on a consistent basis. He is a dressing room cancer and I would much rather have someone like Austin (and I did say get him in as cover to derision) or Long (I don't mean sign them them specifically) that will work, run the channels and give an actual fuck.

On a side note I do think Lukaku has been isolated this season but I've seen lads play lone isolated and make it work. He isn't prepared to and it's the mentality and lack of ethic and big time "doing you a favour being here" that is all wrong.

Standards have dropped at Everton, and there's no characters in the dressing room enforcing them. The dressing room is weak, soft, and needs challenging as there are some players blatantly taking the piss.

Koeman has a battle on.

Ray Roche
115 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:16:21
Paul#110
Quality!
Peter Roberts
116 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:22:55
Glad to see the tide is slowly turning and some can actually see the negativity that Lukaku has on the side.

Never in my life have I been so dismayed by fans getting "conned" by goal stats. He's like a travelling salesman who decides to have a good few days, get his sales up and then sit back and chill for a bit till its time to get a few more in the bag to avoid getting the nudge.

Seriously, what must his team mates think of him? His movement and energy – like it or not – sets the tone for our attacking play. I'm not asking him to get the ball and beat 3 men and smash it to the top corner; however, I do expect him to try and contain the play in the opposition half. I do expect him to lead by example – not just trot around waiting for the magical through ball that may make him actually run with intention.

Bolassie had a go yesterday – so did the much slated Valencia. But we have a lazy lump up front who thinks he's too good for us and has conned some of the fans into thinking it too.

As for Koeman, pack your bags; you don't get us and therefore we will never get you.

Dave O'Connell
117 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:35:51
Is there a worse side then Everton at the moment in the Premier League? Something needs changing now or we will be in a relegation battle.
Rick Dawson
119 Posted 28/11/2016 at 12:52:16
I'm somebody who's normally had a considerable amount of patience with managers, I didn't lose faith with Martinez until Leicester at home in December 2015, or with Moyes until Fulham away September 2009. With Koeman, however, I got that feeling unmistakably after Swansea last week.

Martinez was (correctly) criticised for massively underachieving in his last two seasons. All the rhetoric was how our best squad since the 80s was being wasted by awful management.

Now we've got Ronald Koeman serving up as bad or worse than anything we've seen for 20 years, and all of a sudden, it's the players – it was the players all along... Well, I'm just not having it.

The squad is packed with internationals in every position – compare it to the squads of Bournemouth, Burnley, Palace, Swansea and Southampton we've performed so abysmally against for 2½ months now with no end in sight.

A lot of people, quite simply, are just not yet ready to admit to themselves that we've got another dud in charge. How many good player's careers are going to have to suffer and stall until they do?


Peter Laing
120 Posted 28/11/2016 at 13:13:16
Once again, Everton are in a tailspin. Confidence levels are extremely low and we are in a run of very poor form with little if any sign of the players taking responsibility where it matters – on the pitch.

We've had to endure the same downing of tools and capitulations for the past 3 years and the lack of cohesion and collective team spirit is alarming.

Koeman will need time although to arrest the current demise here and now is an imperative given that we are in free fall seemingly without any sign of a parachute. He has to try something different ð change the personnel, adopt a different formation, blood some of the young players.

We are a busted flush, too many players over the hill or lacking the desire to make a difference regardless of their perceived talent. To do nothing to arrest the current malaise in my opinion is negligible. Actions speak louder than words and only Koeman has the power to effect change.

Anthony Hawkins
121 Posted 28/11/2016 at 13:32:58
The back four are the biggest issue. Coleman aside, the other back three are showing their age and impact injuries have had.

Baines is not the player he used to be. Jagielka is both too slow and his decision making is poor. Williams, I can't comment on too much but may be better paired with a younger partner.

Midfield, we're lacking flair and control. Ignoring the two wings, the centre pairing have to be consistent and control the game. We don't have that.

Going forwards, the top strikers are able to have that one chance and put it in the back of the net. That's it. ONE chance is all they need.

It's not good enough from the players.

Ciaran O'Brien
122 Posted 28/11/2016 at 13:58:17
I'm usually one for giving a new manager time but I think Koeman is not the man for the job.

I think he's lost the dressing room with his managerial style and stupid words to the media about Lukaku not fulfilling his career if he stays at us. I don't think he wanted to come here and was only interested in the money.

I don't believe he was Moshiri's first choice since it took ages to hire him and we supposedly talked to Emery beforehand.

We have no style of play and I hate the new craze "pressing game" which is being coined about a lot. Pressing just means closing down which should be a bare minimum of a Premier League team.

None of the youngsters are being given a chance when so many of our so called stars having been playing shite for the last 2 years.

I hate 4-2-3-1 because it's too negative and our front four don't suit it and we have no deep-lying playmaker in midfield.

So many players need to be cleared: Mirallas, Lennon, Cleverley, Besic, Kone, Niasse, Jagielka, Oviedo, Robles, Gibson and probably Lukaku need to go.

The reason why I didn't say McCarthy because I think he has more to offer and is better in a 1 defensive midfielder formation.

I would try Barkley with Gana, McCarthy and Barry in a 2 man midfield since Barkley is not a Number 10.

Our left side is a joke, we have no left midfielder/winger, Baines is past it, Galloway is a centre-half while Oviedo and Garbutt are dirt.

We need two creative centre midfielders and 1 proper Number 10. A commanding, quick no nonsense nasty centre half, a Fox in the box striker with good feet and a good workrate.

If we pick up no points from our next 5 which is highly likely it's gonna be a relegation battle.

I'm sick of this every fucking year, we sign duds from shite Premier League sides and lose the same type of games all the time.

This all goes back to when Martinez said he needed 6 or 7 New players but got none and that's largely why we are where we are.

The thing is if Koeman gets sacked or leaves who will we get. Howe maybe, no decent Italian apart from Mancini, maybe Pellegrini if he really wants to leave his cushy job in China.

People say Klopp was given time; true. But he didn't have a whole summer transfer window to start off with and he was new to the league.

Franny Porter
123 Posted 28/11/2016 at 14:11:46
Steve Woods (#113), not sure if you have access to an abacus or anything mate but I've named eleven players in that team.
Oliver Molloy
124 Posted 28/11/2016 at 15:31:03
I've said it before and will say it again, Koeman deserves this season to show us what he is made of. I may change my oponion of course if we get really hammered at home in the next couple of home games!

Moshri needs to invest in the team now – never mind the much talked about new stadium. Our new bilionaire has shown us sweet FA in terms of putting his money where his mouth is as far as I am concerned.

I dismissed Eddie How when his name was linked after Martinez was sacked, but in reflection I reckon he may have been a good fit for us. Lots to prove and a fan of the club.

David Connor
125 Posted 28/11/2016 at 15:40:20
Seems crazy to say this early in his managerial career at Everton, but it looks like the players don't want to play for him. Exactly the same attitude as the weeks leading upto the Martinez sacking.

These so-called professional footballers (and I use the term lightly) should be ashamed of themselves the way they are performing at the moment. Man Utd, Arsenal and the Red Shite all coming up. With the attitude and effort they are showing at the moment, God help us.

80% of this squad need replacing ASAP. They are not even Championship standard. A long hard season ahead, folks... Think we've heard that said before.

Dean Adams
126 Posted 28/11/2016 at 15:48:53
Simply put, we are miles away from being a Europa League team. No heart, no desire and no backbone. Most of these players were Moyes players and had all the above.

Martinez did far more damage than most people will admit. We have a long way to go to get back to top 6 never mind top 4.

Mark Burton
127 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:07:57
There is no defence, only one shot on target in two games, so no strike force and a mediocre midfield who are close to pension, so it is an uphill struggle.

Money will have to be given to Koeman to prove himself.

Anthony Hawkins
128 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:16:42
The team lacks passion. There's no fierce tackling. No running through brick walls for the team. No real desire.

Ronaldo regularly puts his body on the line for the team. Whilst he's a unique individual, he fully represents a creative player who is willing to do anything to win. We lack players with that mentality.

Colin Glassar
129 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:27:31
Balls Anthony, Balls.
Andrew McKernan
130 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:29:04
Seems to me that Koeman's priorities are all wrong. Why did we spend 㿈M on Bolassi and are talking about a similar amount on Memphis Depay when we have similar (and better?) players in Deulofeu and Mirallas?

Great servant that he has been, now at 34 Jagielka's best years are behind him. Ashley Williams at 32 will be okay for a few more years... but who else?

Funes-Mori is not a premier league player. Next up: Mason Holgate, great potential but only 18. Hopefully Koeman will look for a few centre-backs in the January window...

Dave Bickley
131 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:45:21
Anthony @128,

I agree and for that surely Duncan Ferguson is culpable. I cannot see what else 'big Dunc' can contribute to this lethargic shambles we are enduring other than pride and passion and he is also failing miserably.

If he is being employed to coach pinball Rom how to head that is also failing. Get the kids in and ditch these mercenaries, and make them refund all our magnificent travelling away fans for that spineless effort!

John Raftery
132 Posted 28/11/2016 at 16:59:49
In Koeman's first season at Southampton in 2014-15, they lost five games in succession before a combination of injuries and suspensions forced him to use younger players and change the formation from 4-2-3-1 to 5-3-2.

Result? They won 3-0.

The opposition? Everton FC.

Sometimes managers get lucky when circumstances force them to make changes they would otherwise have been reluctant to make. We can but hope circumstances force him to do something similar with us.

Robin Cannon
133 Posted 28/11/2016 at 17:02:48
Other than being not quite as shite as the first half, how does our second half performance "encourage" him?
Kristian Boyce
134 Posted 28/11/2016 at 17:03:00
Nicky (#89). Koeman's discipline style is probably a huge wake up for the players who have served under Martinez.

After the strict rule of Moyes, it seemed that it was a free for all under Martinez. Things got slack, and players weren't held accountable for their mistakes.

Barkley is a prime example, as it seemed Martinez encouraged him to learn from his mistakes, creating a culture of no blame.

Marc Sansum
135 Posted 28/11/2016 at 17:14:00
Talking of blooding the youngsters, anyone seen Fraser Hornby play? Midfielder I think, but noticed he's scored 11 goals in 12 games for our Under-18s.

With the tough run coming up, I can't see any of our youngsters getting a game.

Colin Metcalfe
136 Posted 28/11/2016 at 18:34:23
Oh Jesus, will people please stop blaming Martinez! The guy left six months ago! Your telling me that a group of professional... yes, PROFESSIONAL footballers cannot get into shape and take on different instuctions of their role in the team in six months? Really?
I honestly don't know where to start where the problems lie because their is so many issues from ageing players to poor signing and a manager who doesn't know his best eleven or formation !

We are a bit of a mess at the moment but with a run of differcult games coming up Koeman needs to mix things up and take a risk or two.

1) Drop Jags he is struggling also with him and Williams at the heart of the defence our distribution from the back is piss poor (yes, in this respect we do miss Stones) pair Williams with Funes Mori.

2) Barry also needs to be benched, what stuck me about yesterday's game is the amount of time and space Southampton had in the middle of the park and Guaye often doing the work of two men as Barry simply does not have the legs and so Tom Davies or Macca to partner Guaye .

3) Barkley is no No 10 he wants so much time on the ball and doesn't read the game very well, I personally would give Deulofeu a shot in that particular position he can pick a pass and many times when playing on the wing he loses the ball by trying to take men on and then delivering the cross... Why you may ask? Because there is normally no one to cross to and so has to pass back or take the man on!

4) Lukaku is very slow at anticipating crosses and passes and he loses the ball far too often, in the formation we play where he has to play a lone striker he has to work the channels and also hold the ball up wait for support. The problem is these are not his strengths and so we either change the formation to 4-4-2 or sell Lukaku for the best possible price!

5) Koeman was not my choice as manager as I said the time he was not a good fit for Everton however we have to keep the faith for now hope he can turn things around but he has to take chances, he strikes me as being one not to gamble on players and likes to play mature established players unless injuries dictate circumstances. However he has to do something to stop the rot, I fully expect changes over the next few games because if he persists with the same set of players we could find ourselves getting a few hidings and dropping like a stone down the table.

We are just a few defeats from the bottom half of the table and we have a fixture list from hell from now on, Koeman has to start earning that six-figure salary or we could be in big trouble come January and no player wants to join a struggling side.

John Davies
137 Posted 28/11/2016 at 18:36:34
The calls for Koeman to be sacked are just ridiculous and juvenile but he does now have to show us Evertonians that he will do whatever is necessary to move things forward.

Even without any new signings, the current lot of slackers (there are a few players who clearly do not give a fuck for our club) need replacing by the youngsters. They cannot do any worse for Christ's sake!

Bite the bullet, Mr Koeman, and show us that these performances are as unbearable for you as they are for us tortured fans. All eyes are now on you – and will be until January when we expect some action.

Darren Hind
138 Posted 28/11/2016 at 18:57:00
John... read his quotes, fella.

Honest Ronnie is telling us he has not got a Scooby.

I'm tying to ease off and let him get on with it, but how do you do that?

٤m a year and the best he can come up with is "fuck knows".

Spare a thought for those world class fans who'd have travelled for 4-5 hours to get there, some of them will have still been queuing to get in when the match was lost .

Still, the reasonable and the patient will make them feel much better with more promises of jam tomorrow.

Anthony Dwyer
141 Posted 28/11/2016 at 19:05:02
Fuck me, I'm finding it increasingly difficult not to slate Koeman.

Come on, FFS, against Swansea we were awful, so he puts out an identical team away to Southampton!

A few things have become depressingly obvious:

1. We have far too many shit players.

2. Despite the fact we have shit players, the manager has to work with what he has; it's easily as good as what he had at Southampton, yet he can't get nothing out of them.

3. Despite the run of 1 win in 8, we aren't seeing a change in formation, we aren't seeing any fresh new players.

4. It looks like were reliving the Tim Howard situation all over again, this time with Jags. Jags looks lost, as Howard did, yet the manager leaves him in the firing line.

We need to mix it up desperately, we have to introduce some new blood into the team, and onto the bench too, as our subs don't make enough of an impact to get us the points.

We need to start including Dowell and Davis from the start of games, we need Bolasie back on the right hand side instead of on the left, we need Funes Mori in for Jags and someone has to try getting Galloway back asap to go back to left back.

Some of the players we would need to leave out are hard men to replace, but if you look at our last 50-odd games we simply have not been good enough and at least two of these players have played most of the time. (Jags and Barry out is my thinking.)

1. Stekelenburg
2. Coleman
3. Galloway
4. Funes Mori or Holgate
5. Williams
6. Gana
7. Bolasie
8. Davies
9. Lukaku
10. Barkley
11. Dowell

I love Jags, he's been a terrific servant to the club; I really rate Barry too, but feel we have to add to the team if were ever to kick on.

If the above doesn't work, we can address it in January.

Ian Brandes
142 Posted 28/11/2016 at 19:18:29
Question: What do we do about Koeman?

Answer: Unsworth and Royle.

And then put the much derided ( most unfairly) Leon Osman in charge of the Academy.

After all, he is the only player of late who could read a gam, and deliver a killer pass to a player in his own team.

True Blues for True Blues!

Phil Bellis
143 Posted 28/11/2016 at 19:23:25
John (#137),

What if he doesn't react as you suggest?

David Peate
144 Posted 28/11/2016 at 19:36:18
What Everton need are players who will give their all for the team. People like Dave Watson, Bert Llewellyn, Dave Hickson and Eddie Wainwright. They may not have been the world's best footballers but they gave and chased everything. They were blue through and through.

For these types of footballers it was not just a stroll in the park. It was a Blue battle every time!

Mark Morrissey
145 Posted 28/11/2016 at 19:56:25
There is a fundamental breakdown here between the players and the coaches, Koeman in particular. It's as plain to see as the nose on Phil Thompson's ugly mug.

It needs someone like Duncan Ferguson to sit the entire squad down and say "WHAT'S THE FUCKING PROBLEM" and the answer will be, if they were truthful "We don't like Koeman speaking openly and frankly to all and sundry about us, we don't like being criticised and we are therefore all sulking until he gives us all a hug."

They are a bunch of fannies and needed some tough love after the Bobby Brown shoes regime but to quote a well known film "they can't handle the truth".They are all running scared from the big bad boss.

They all need to grow a pair.

Mick Davies
146 Posted 28/11/2016 at 20:06:01
John @ 137, "The calls for Koeman to be sacked are just ridiculous and juvenile but he does now have to show us Evertonians that he will do whatever is necessary to move things forward."

In an oxymoronic way, you have agreed with those wanting him sacked, because you admit he's not showing us he is doing what is necessary to move things forward: ie, sorting out the mess he is paid mindbending lottery winning amounts of cash to do.

Before he arrived, in one game, Unsworth seemed to have sorted out the mess, and got a side full of internationals looking like a team again. We could see the players fighting and doing all the things the (temporary) boss had asked of them. We don't see that now, even with additional players being recruited. What we see is a group of disjointed, unfit and in the main, ageing men going through the motions, and the younger ones doing even less.

I don't think Koeman is the answer to Everton's problem but I know he's here for a few years yet, so I just hope (it's been my life support for 20+ years) that he proves me wrong, and gets this rudderless gravy train back on its tracks

John Pierce
147 Posted 28/11/2016 at 20:06:44
I'm almost at the point were I'm half wishing for a red card or injury to Rom for Koeman to be forced into a change of shape and or personnel.

My anger is starting to subside, meaning that, after 40 years, I'm beginning to lose affection for my club.

Patrick Murphy
148 Posted 28/11/2016 at 20:30:49
Ten possible ways to motivate a team?

1) Treat everyone as an individual – Respect that every player has different needs "Every incentive doesn't necessarily motivate each individual", Be Flexible to their needs, Should an individual player have ambitions to play at a higher level, tell him not to waste his time at your club.

2) Praise good work and offer feedback – Publicly praise those players who have managed to find a team-mate with a pass or throw-in.

3) Lead by example: "Don't leave work the moment the clock strikes going home time, make time for your players. Be excited by new challenges, show real enthusiasm for projects and demonstrate your love of the job. Positivity breeds positivity.”

4) Encourage people to take a break – particularly in the opening half of games, there'll be plenty of time for the players to turn it around in the second period.

5) Offer benefits that boost morale (but don't break the bank) i.e. don't impinge on the directors personal wealth as that could lead to major problems. A gesture as simple as having fruit delivered to the training ground each week can show the players that you care.

6) Give ownership to your team, While new players need clear instructions and guidance, once they are on the right track, let go of the reins. Leave them to be led by their own initiative and congratulate them for doing so. Allow them to work well and without much input.

7) Run a ‘no blame' culture – When something goes wrong don't blame the players; analyse the reasons and change whatever actually caused the issue in the first place – learn and improve.

8) Communication is key – By keeping open lines of communication with players and listening to their ideas, they will feel more connected to the progression of the club and thus more motivated to contribute to its future. However, don't publicly lambast them or belittle them in front of their spouses.

9) Be flexible – Whilst all companies need employment agreements in place to set standards, be prepared to be flexible to reasonable requests for additional leave. Respect that your players have personal lives to balance with their work commitments and don't put additional pressure on them when, for example, they have to pick up their children, take care of a sick relative or leave early for a Lamborghini to be delivered. To avoid completely forfeiting their labour, be generous to them and they'll reward you with increased productivity.

10) Get the little things right – You need not spend a vast sum of money improving your staff morale. A few Ales and a meal in Chinatown can be enough to cement team spirit.

Peter Mills
149 Posted 28/11/2016 at 20:32:10
I'm completely stumped on how we can improve.

I hope the man getting paid £6m a year has got a bit more idea than me.

Peter Mills
150 Posted 28/11/2016 at 21:04:05
ps: Patrick (#148), that was not me having a pop at your thoughtful post, I know how much you think and care about our club.
Mike Berry
151 Posted 28/11/2016 at 21:07:25
Lack of a concerted team effort. Cos they ain't playing for him.
Patrick Murphy
152 Posted 28/11/2016 at 21:08:42
Cheers, Peter (#150),

I honestly didn't take umbrage at your post at all and I, like you, hope that Koeman can come up with solutions to our present dilemma.

Brian Harrison
153 Posted 28/11/2016 at 21:40:53
Patrick,

I think your list of excellent ideas could be summed up as Koeman lacks man management skills. Maybe its the Dutch style as many have commented there is also an air of aloofness when I see him being interviewed.

I don't hear the passion in his voice, he talks of Everton not 'us' or 'we', he says its a project. Well, Ronald, to a lot of us, it has been a lifetime's work of passion and love.

Nik Ramsden
154 Posted 28/11/2016 at 21:58:21
Amazing. A handful of games ago (even on this site) fans were saying what a breath of fresh air Koeman was, straight talking and getting the team playing well. That was, what, a handful of games ago. Now he's shit, has no ideas and waffles on. We're on a bad run, it absolutely needs to stop but Jesus give the guy a chance.

The reds are on a good run which makes it worse but I for one do not want us to turn into a hire and fire club. He needs to be judged on a full season at least and the club needs to learn from the mistakes of the summer window.

A few poor results won't ruin our season. Those that thought we were going to be a top four side this season were day dreaming. It's got to be turned around and quickly to keep in touch with the teams above but guys reign it in seriously.

ps: Some may talk about passion and caring as their reasons for negative posts but just because I'm realistic and patient doesn't mean I'm any less passionate. Bring on the comments

Roger Helm
155 Posted 28/11/2016 at 22:17:22
We seem to have had the same formation and nearly the same players for about a decade. It is like watching a Moyes team without the grit and defensive resilience. He's had some stick on here but who doesn't miss Cahill, the younger Osman, Arteta and Pienaar, and the days when our fullbacks were bombing forward regularly.

The team is full of old men – no wonder our players cover less ground than almost all other sides. You can have one or maybe two in a team but not as many as we have. And the younger ones have been here so long they seem stale and complacent.

Football is so fast these days, you are getting past it by your late twenties. We need a big clear-out to make way for a younger generation, preferably including some of our own.

Patrick Murphy
156 Posted 28/11/2016 at 22:18:56
It's not a handful of games ago though is it Nik (154)? It is one victory in eight League games and 1 victory in 9 top level matches. We've played thirteen league games and two cup-ties and won only six games in total. Most of those victories were achieved by one decent half of football.

The only half of football that offered any real hope that this season may be better than the previous two, was in the opening game against Spurs. Since we beat Boro on 17th September – three months ago, we have looked like a team that has mostly lost the plot.

Given our current form, general malaise and upcoming fixtures we could easily face Southampton at Goodison on 2nd January still awaiting our seventh victory of the season. That might of course be a pessimistic view, but it's more likely than not, particularly if nothing changes in relation to Koeman's tactics, formation, or the personell he chooses to utilise.

We all wanted to believe that the club would ride on a crest of enthusiasm but it's failed to take advantage of any feel good factor that was around at the start of the campaign. Many of us can be accused of being deluded and over optimistic until events showed us all that little has changed and we are once again writing a campaign off for another year.

I do hope that Ronald is the right man to take the club forward and that he at least lays good foundations for the future, but it's really difficult to point to any single thing and say that's what Koeman's trying to achieve at Everton FC – or maybe I missed something?

Anthony Dwyer
157 Posted 28/11/2016 at 22:37:43
I think a lot of us are more annoyed by the fact that not only are we piss poor form wise, we are also absolutely awful to watch. We are void of ideas on how to involve Lukaku; Koemancan't seem to get anything out of Ross, Del boy, or Miralas.

Our U23 team is flying, we have good young players on the books and none of them look the least bit likely to get given a chance.

Liverpool are the complete opposite. Although we shouldn't be judging ourselves on the enemy, you can't help but look across the park and see what's going on. They look easy to watch, have bags of goals in them, attack at will.

They have a manager who seems more than willing to throw the kids into the mix. Both the manager and the team itself aren't one bit over reliant on any one player.

We just look like we've possibly made a huge mistake in getting Keoman in. Hopefully not, hopefully he can fix our broken team, hopefully its all in transition and it won't take long now, but I can't see it.

I can't work out his style of play, his philosophy per say. He claims to like a high pressing, high tempo game, but I don't miss a minute of Everton's football, and I don't see any thing of the sorts.

Under Martinez I was far from happy, but his idea was clear; flawed to fuck, but clear.

I don't see a growing identity at the blues and I really want to. The minimum requirement is fitness, I've heard that RK claimed we were as unfit a side he'd ever witnessed, but he doesn't seem yo have fixed that.

Rick Hatton used to go from Ricky Fatton to abbed up machine in 6-8 weeks, Koeman has had double. I'll be honest, im starting to worry.

Tom Bowers
158 Posted 28/11/2016 at 22:59:35
There have been many opinions expressed and many are very true about the situation.

Over the last few weeks, we have seen Everton as bad as they have been at any point over the last 10 years. Saturday's performance was an all time low. One shot on target and in injury time against a team that had played on Thursday in the Czech Republic and should have been at least a little mentally tired, but their people had them up for the game from the off and basically kept going right to the end.

One goal in three games is awful considering the money spent on Lukaku and Bolassie who by the way has been a dud since coming in to help take the weight off Lukaku.

Koeman just doesn't seem to be able to inspire his players at this stage and they have shown no glimpses of form that may be interpreted as ''improvement''.

It really is a scary prognosis and with Manure coming up along with RS, something needs to be done quickly as they can easily find themselves in the lower half given the lack of points gained lately.

If he makes some changes for the next game how hopeful can we be if it is the same old bench players who also have been under a cloud regarding output.

I think Koeman has to be brave and drop some big names who are underachieving to allow some youngsters in and although it may not produce victories overnight it will send a strong message to the big wages guys that what they have done so far is totally unacceptable. In any event, the youngsters may just be a pleasant surprise and kick-start a revival.

Andy Crooks
159 Posted 28/11/2016 at 23:04:00
Good post, Nik #154. Koeman inherited a demoralized squad who played no small part in getting the hapless Martinez sacked. This lot will not be sorted quickly. I don't like what I am seeing but, it seems to me, that it is ridiculous to talk of Koeman going.

There is some unsubstantiated, pure speculation about the relationship between coach and squad. I doubt, though, that the inept frauds who are shaming the shirt, will force this coach out. He is here for a while yet and I expect a turnaround soon.

Raymond Fox
160 Posted 28/11/2016 at 23:14:56
Oscar (#15), you don't speak for every Evertonian.

Yours truly and a few other brave souls stuck our heads above the parapet last season and suggested maybe the players and not just the manager might be to blame for our lack of success.

At the risk of repeating myself, if we want to be taken seriously as a club again, the owners need to spend some of their own money for a change because they haven't done yet on a level that will raise us from mediocrity.

Until they do, we will continue to be disappointed.

Ben Attwood
161 Posted 28/11/2016 at 23:26:50
If he keeps picking the same team, we can only expect the same results. Most of the players have been performing below the expected levels for some time now. Barry and Jags are now past it. Barkley too inconsistent. Lukaku not interested and clearly hoping for a move elsewhere.

A top manager would make big changes such as 5 or 6 dropped or a change of formation - look what Conte did at Chelsea. This would show players what is expected. A lot of the players know they will be picked whatever their performance. That is not good enough.

The last really positive game was against Norwich at the end of last season when the kids were given a go and there was more than one change. Yes we have won a few matches this season but for long periods of each we have looked poor and the results could have been different.

A tough month ahead with games against the big teams. It needs sorting fast.

Gordon Crawford
162 Posted 29/11/2016 at 00:12:40
I see Niasse scored his seventh goal tonight. Superb finish too. I really think this guy could have done a job for us.

I don't care what Koeman says, this guy needs a chance to play some more games for the first team. We signed him for a reason and I'm not convinced he is as crap as Koeman says he is.

Teddy Bertin
163 Posted 29/11/2016 at 01:22:29
Back to some of the earlier posts about Rom. I'm not his biggest fan and I'd like to see him and Kev shipped out but in his defence, he was waving Lennon, Barkley and Bolasie on to press and no-one was there. Barkley was the worst offender.

They don't seem to know how to press. Lennon running his socks off pressing is useless if he does it on his own. Every team in the league and 3 leagues below will just pass the ball around one man pressing. It has to be in twos and threes.

It's alright saying that Costa runs more than Lukaku but if Costa was playing for us he'd soon learn that it's not worth the energy.

What stinks about Lukaku is that he gave up on asking the other to press and what stinks about the manager is that he can't get even 30 mins of high energy pressing out of so-called international players.

Mick Davies
164 Posted 29/11/2016 at 02:16:37
"Koeman at a loss to explain poor starts" ... Well, that just puts the icing on the cake. Why do I fear the rest of the season and we're only in November?
David Barks
165 Posted 29/11/2016 at 02:43:50
Well, anyone who keeps asking why some of our younger players don't get a shot, just read this.

And former Saints star Le Tissier said: 'I thought it was a brilliant debut, I was really impressed with him.

'Had Ronald Koeman still been at the club he probably wouldn't have had that chance, because Ronald wasn't overly keen on getting the youngsters involved.

Peter Barry
166 Posted 29/11/2016 at 02:53:08
We are going through the same process as we did with Dour Dire Davey and Old Brown Shoes...

Some of us see the writing on the wall long before most and some can't even see the wall and continue supporting a FAILED manager to the bitter end – and some even beyond the end.

Sean McCarthy
167 Posted 29/11/2016 at 03:00:55
Steve (#113) - you do realise Funes and Mori are the same person don't you??? Franny's team only has 11 players in it!!

As for the suggestion that Lukaku is making Barkley look a bad player So that's why he can't pass to a team mate, or tackle, or head a ball, or track back, or make a decision with the ball at his feet. The very idea that he'd shine in a 'top 5' side is just laughable.

I said at the start of the season he'd be at a West Brom or Stoke or Sunderland within 3 years. Well I'm revising my view and saying he'll be at that type of club next season. Those who say sell him for 㿊m just imagine if we bought someone for that price who offered as little as Barkley does week after week. Oh, hang on – we did. Bolaise!!! Another one trick pony to add to the list!!!

Before the clamour to sack the manager gets out of hand look at yesterday's team and ask yourself if you were a fan of another team how many of Everton's squad would you like to see sign for you. Not many i'll guess. And there's a reason for that. We have a squad of bang average players mixed with over-the-hill 30-somethings.

A massive clear out is needed. And quickly

Darren Hind
168 Posted 29/11/2016 at 04:51:28
Nick (#154),

You are making the classic error of thinking everyone who disagrees with you has the same opinion. They don't.

Those who claimed Koeman was a the answer are not the same people who are now saying he is "shit" and has "no ideas".

While some saw his already fabled "Dutch candour" as what you describe as "a breath of fresh air", others (myself included) saw it as responsibility shirking, finger pointing bullshit... I think you'll find we said so at the time.

That's not to say there are only two camps here – although it does look as though the trenches are already starting to be dug – there are many different groups with differing opinions, all equally entitled to voice them without being told to "reign it in".

I'm often puzzled by people who think that criticising a manager whose team is serving up pug ugly ineffective shite, should be deemed "negative"... yet supporting said pug ugly shite is deemed realistic as err... positive? A pissed logic if you ask me.

It doesn't seem much more than a year ago (probably because it wasn't) when the patient and the realistic were lining up to be all outraged and upset about "constant negativity" directed towards the last guy... How justified that negativity turned out to be. You see, not everyone believes you should wait until your house has been reduced to ashes before you call the fire brigade.

I'm also sick of the realistic and the patient saying the players are not good enough. The squad is choc full of internationals, all of whom have repeatedly proved they are better than this. The managers of Norwich, Burnley. Bournemouth, Swansea and Southampton would swap their squads for Koeman's in a heartbeat.

A manager's primary job is to get the best out of his players, to get them to buy in to his ideas, He needs them all on board. The one thing he must not do, is to alienate them by criticising them in public whilst exonerating himself of all blame.

Dutch candour? Criticising individuals in public whilst distancing yourself from blame is about as negative (and dishonest) as it gets for a manager. Chelsea gave ample evidence of that last season.

We are not going to get a change of manager, but we can demand a change of attitude.

Jay Griffiths
169 Posted 29/11/2016 at 08:08:53
We follow this team from Newcastle to Southampton. Norwich to Swansea. Basically north, south, east and west.

What hasn't escaped my attention, for the last 12 months of Bobbies reign we had players who "downed tools". We left early many times.

Those players are still at our club. Don't forget that. It's in their nature if they get pissed with the hierarchy.

This transfer window is just as important in getting rid of the bad seeds as it is getting good players in. Has to be root and branch.

Mark Andrews
170 Posted 29/11/2016 at 10:19:51
If a team of internationals, who we know can play decent exciting football, aren't doing so, I'd say the blame lies firmly at the door of Koeman.

I watch us and and I'm at a loss to see what the plan is, what is he trying to achieve? It's awful to watch and I'd imagine its awful to play.

The gloss has rapidly disappeared from Koeman. His ambitions of being a future Barca coach seem laughable. He fits firmly into the category of legendary players who can't make the grade as great coaches.

The decades of woe being an Everton fan show no signs of ending any time soon. We fit firmly into the category of 4th best team in the North West.

Anthony Hawkins
171 Posted 29/11/2016 at 11:52:14
@Colin #129. Are you calling my comments balls or stating the players need more balls?

If you're disagreeing with my comments, feel free but it's all there to see.

If you're saying the players need more balls then I fully agree!!!

Stan Schofield
172 Posted 29/11/2016 at 12:01:40
Darren @168: Spot-on. I am still a supporter of Koeman, being patient but not infinitely patient. But that doesn't mean I agree with everything he does.

I believe that some of his utterances have simply been unprofessional, not consistent with what we expect of any professional manager. He needs to change on that front, and become more professional. Less chatter, more action. Otherwise, it is nigh on impossible to lead by example.

I also disagree with his use, or rather non-use, of our younger players. I am gobsmacked as to why Under-23s who have proven themselves already in the 1st team, cannot get a place given the appalling performances from established regulars.

I am not expecting miracles or even rapid massive change, but I would like to see evidence of less stubbornness in his management, and I would like to see it quickly.

George Cumiskey
174 Posted 29/11/2016 at 12:15:11
I see Ronald has come out with the old chestnut it's a wake-up call. Wasn't it a wake-up call against Norwich, Burnley, Bournemouth, Chelsea and Swansea?

Why has it taken so long for him to wake up when everyone else could see what was happening.

Linda Morrison
175 Posted 29/11/2016 at 12:45:41
I have to say, folks, that I never could understand why the new Chairman was so determined to get hold of our current manager.
Okay, he did well with not a lot at Southampton, but so do a lot of managers in the top 2 layers of the leagues.

I just have a bad feeling about this, as he seems to say one thing and actually do another. He has stated that he will pull players who do not perform yet he carries on with Jags who just hasn't got the legs anymore.

He should give some of the Under-23s a start against Man Utd as we need points or we will be in the bottom half of the league very soon.

I feel for the people who went all that way last week to be served up with that rubbish!

Bobby Thomas
176 Posted 29/11/2016 at 12:56:34
Jay (#169),

I think the dressing room is rotten. Standards have been allowed to drop and there seems to be no one in there enforcing them. By that I mean a senior pro. There are players quite blatantly taking the piss and the dressing room needs challenging. That, however, is high risk.

There's going to be a big turnover of players, I guess, as there are some who are clearly not having Koeman, and plenty he doesn't rate. The wedge and faith he has had placed in him mean its likely the board will back him as far as they can, unless we end up in real bother.

Brian Williams
177 Posted 29/11/2016 at 13:04:42
"Koeman at a loss to explain poor starts." — That's the title of the piece.

What about explaining the poor middle and the poor ends because it's not as if we improve "greatly" as the game goes on.

Has it not dawned on him that the WHOLE game performances have been very poor?

Steve Woods
178 Posted 29/11/2016 at 13:27:43
Franny (#107) & Sean (#167) — my apologies for my error and miscount! I must have still been seeing double after Sunday's shambles!
Paul Kelly
179 Posted 29/11/2016 at 13:44:27
If Ron is really at a loss to explain the poor starts, well, oh, I just give up.

Not sure if he's now showing "decorum" as to not offend the fickle (my opinion, of course).

He must know, surely. Just keeping his cards close to his very opinionated chest.

I give up trying to work it out, it gives me migraines, but one thing I know is we are shite. He's in charge, he should sort it out.

Steve Brown
180 Posted 29/11/2016 at 14:21:58
If Ronald is at a loss, let me have a go.

Lack of leadership in the squad, senior pros in decline, low intensity and lack of application on the pitch, a team who are hard-wired to play a game-plan that is the opposite of the current tactics, refusal to promote emerging talent, generally poor standards on and off the pitch for years, up to ten players who know they'll be gone soon, a collapse in confidence and moral, and finally a manager who seems to think doing the same things with the same players will get different results.

Brian Williams
181 Posted 29/11/2016 at 17:04:18
I hope he manages to explain to Mr Moshiri how he really needs the 𧴜m or so we were allegedly trying to spend in the summer. He should use EVERY penny in January or we could be in deep shit.

I'm all for patience and not suggesting he gets the sack, but if we don't start winning games soon we'll plummet down that league and December looks a real twat of a month.

It was reported today that Soton want 㿔m for Van Dijk. Give em that in January and get him in. Spend another 㿊m or more on a playmaker. Spend another 㿊m or more on a second striker to play WITH Lukaku and not instead of.

I'd also look to bring in at least three loanees for the rest of the season, including Schweinstieger (consummate professional with a better footballing brain than the rest of our squad put together)

Extreme? Yes, but can anyone see any of the present players getting us out of this slump? I didn't expect top four in Koemams first season, but I didn't expect what we're seeing now either. Act soon, Ron, before it's too fucking late!!!

Brian Williams
182 Posted 29/11/2016 at 17:14:06
The striker would be Dembele from Celtic, by the way.
Dave Abrahams
183 Posted 29/11/2016 at 17:14:21
Brian (#181), if Everton spend the sort of money you are quoting in January, then Lukaku, whether you like him or not, will have been sold.
Brian Williams
184 Posted 29/11/2016 at 17:17:07
Dave. Not if you add up all the money Moshiri said we were willing to spend in the summer. According to him we were quite prepared to pay 㿨m for Koulibally, 㿊m for Sissoko. That's just two.
Tony Abrahams
185 Posted 29/11/2016 at 18:28:47
Darren, good post, mate, a team full of internationals should definitely be good enough, but then you read Jay's post that comes straight after your own, and it does get you thinking.

Is Koeman good enough? I'm not sure. But if he's to prove he's the boss, and he really means business, then he's got to change either his methods or his team or quite possibly both, before things get even more out of hand.

It really does look that bad at the minute, watching a manager talking about one thing, and his players out on the pitch doing another?

John G. Davies
186 Posted 29/11/2016 at 18:57:09
We are all disappointed with recent results. Nobody is happy with the lack of winning mentality shown by the players.

The buck stops with the manager of course. I think it is an amalgamation of players unbalanced in the formation and some players aware they won't be part of it next season.

One thing though; Martinez was correctly ripped to bits for over egging the ability if the players no matter how they performed.

"He should tell the fans the truth" was often repeated. When Koeman "tells it like it is" he is ripped to bits by what can only be described as double-standard comments.
John Pierce
187 Posted 29/11/2016 at 19:27:13
For a quick review of the Southampton game and an objective chat on Koeman with a Saints fan, check the link out:

Link

Darren Hind
188 Posted 29/11/2016 at 21:05:01
John @186

What are you talking about? The people who were annoyed at Martinez for blowing smoke up the players' arses, would hardly be the same people who are now criticising Koeman for his finger-pointing.

How can they only be described as "double-standard" comments if they are made by different people?

What is double-standard is applauding Koeman for "telling it like it is" then rounding on fans who give him a taste of his own.

John G. Davies
189 Posted 29/11/2016 at 21:30:52
In some cases, Darren, they are one and the same.

As you say, and I agree, it is nonsensical to slate Martinez for not telling it as it is and slate Koeman for telling it as it is when it comes to certain players' performances.

For example, he criticised Lukaku's and Barkley's performances vs Southampton. Was that an unfair assessment of the way the two of them played?

I have no problem with a manager telling it as it is. Players are mollycoddled and protected far too much in my opinion. They are well paid, overpaid in a lot of cases. If they can't accept criticism, that just backs my case up.

John Pierce
190 Posted 29/11/2016 at 21:33:51
Darren, I could not agree more. Koeman should be treated in the equally brutal terms way he treats others.

For others to be critical is balmy, too many giving Koeman faith and trust on credit instead of him earning that right.

To date he has earnt neither, almost no progress, although our defensive record is improving, so should be on the tightest of reins.

A poor December may even convince me that he doesn't warrant the transfer funds to change things. That being said, we are a touch desperate at the moment.

If Koeman cannot get us Europe then, for me, it's time to jog on.

Patrick Murphy
191 Posted 29/11/2016 at 22:10:45
John (#190),

I can see that many would consider the treatment of Niasse as 'brutal' but for all we know there might be good reason for this, which may have nothing to do with matters on the football pitch.

If publicly stating that Ross has to produce more often or that Jagielka has to improve on his recent performances, is now considered 'brutal', I'm at a loss to know what is or isn't acceptable from the manager of Everton FC.

I really don't care if he is the coldest of people and the most brutal manager in the history of the game if he turns things around and Everton FC start winning more games than they don't. If he doesn't turn it around pretty damn sharpish, he will, like others before him, be replaced by somebody else.

Stan Schofield
192 Posted 29/11/2016 at 23:17:00
Patrick, as far as I am concerned he has to act professionally, otherwise it's not really feasible for him to lead by example.

Some of his utterances appear unprofessional, in appearing not to be in Everton's best interests, which he has a duty to promote (and certainly not to do the opposite). This has to stop.

Perhaps we need less chit chat from him. We certainly appear to need more action.

John Pierce
193 Posted 30/11/2016 at 01:47:36
Patrick, maybe my adjectives are prone to hyperbole.

Whilst openly slating members of his team, it strikes me that maybe it is just a deflection to distract from his own accountability. This might also be a drum-banging ploy to ensure he gets the funds he wants in January.

It has clearly had an effect on squad players who are to be moved on. They both can't execute his game plan and after being verbally trashed have decided not to even try.

Do we really think he's gonna turn it around? My gut says not.

Don Alexander
194 Posted 30/11/2016 at 01:58:07
Darren Hind at #168 states, as numerous others do, that Koeman should be getting more than he is out of a squad "chock full of internationals", and that several other Premier League managers would swap their squads for ours "in a heartbeat". I couldn't disagree more.

First, teams like Southampton, Swansea, Burnley and Bournemouth have all proved this season that what they have is better than what we have. I'd be amazed if there's one single manager who doesn't feel genuine relish when he sees his next match is against us, just like last season. Koeman and the few he's brought in must be aghast at what they've found behind the scenes.

Second, not one of our internationals is playing for a country likely to win anything soon so them playing bog standard football for a bog standard national team sadly means nowt to me, even if it gives our shyster players the occasional chance to wear a shirt they actually respect.

David Barks
195 Posted 30/11/2016 at 02:44:25
Don,

That is utterly ridiculous. None of our internationals are playing for a country likely to win anything, really?

Funes Mori starts for Argentina. Lukaku starts for Belgium, with Mirallas also in the squad. Williams just went to the semis of the Euros with Wales. Coleman captains the Irish, who are getting stronger every year.

And just how many national teams have a chance to "win anything"? Argentina, Brazil, Germany, Spain, France? Italy is down, so I guess having an Italian wouldn't rank with any managers. Belgium are fancied to be contenders for years.

And since when does a player's worth and quality depend on the quality of his national team? Didn't see clubs running away from Zlatan and Larrson because Sweden weren't dominant. I could just see the Real Madrid board arguing against Gareth Bale because Wales were garbage at the time.

We have a squad of talented footballers. I didn't see Leicester City winning the league last season with a team full of German and Spanish internationals.

Those teams you mention don't have superior players to us. What they had was a team that was set out with better tactics and beat us on the day. Meanwhile our manager persists with the same formation of two defensive midfielders that offer zero goal threat or ability to dictate play with the ball, and an isolated lone striker up top.

Liverpool have for the most part the same players in their team that were garbage under Rodgers, below us in the table last season, who are now lighting up the league with their new manager. He's had an immediate impact, guiding them to two cup finals in his first half season.

Our manager sadly seems clueless and hasn't had a noticeable impact on a single player or the method of our play, other than resorting to a ton of hoofball to a solitary striker.

Nicholas Ryan
196 Posted 30/11/2016 at 02:48:40
I know it's early days, and I know Koeman has a great reputation. However, there is something that doesn't feel quite right about him.

This is not based on any facts or evidence... it's purely an instinct; but something tells me that he's not the man for us.

Darren Hind
197 Posted 30/11/2016 at 05:31:21
Don (#194),

"Teams like Southampton, Swansea, Burnley and Bournemouth have all proved this season that they have better than what we have."

Are you sure? Only despite the fact that the overwhelming majority of Evertonians are complaining bitterly about under performing players and manager... we are still comfortably above every single one of those teams.

I'll give you one thing though, the players who play for England do indeed play for a bog standard national team.

David Young
198 Posted 30/11/2016 at 07:44:53
Koeman doesn't seem to have the fire in his belly. Give him a sabbatical for Xmas as he is complaining about fixture pile-up over December.

Give Big Dunc and Unsy a couple of matches to get the passion and hunger back as they want to prove themselves.

John G Davies
199 Posted 30/11/2016 at 09:13:58
If, as some are suggesting, we are to sack managers because they haven't got us in the top 6 after 13 league games, can I make a suggestion?

As we give Goodison a makeover in the run-up to the new stadium, can we ask that a revolving door is fitted to the manager's office?

If the new stadium takes 4 years, we will have appointed 12 new managers. A surefire way to achieve success.

Stan Schofield
200 Posted 30/11/2016 at 09:49:47
David @195: I agree.

Quite a few posts are saying how good Liverpool are, and how our midfield players can't compete with the likes of Coutinho. Well, my opinion is that our squad last season, and could still be this season, was as good or better than Liverpool's.

The derby debacle was frustrating and angering not because Liverpool were that good, they weren't, but because our players failed to turn up, to perform in any acceptable way. For me, this is the main point, that we do have the players who can perform. We've seen them do it in the past. So they can do it again.

As such, instead of focusing on transfer windows and mythical future signings, we should be seeing incremental improvements with the current squad, with future signings adding to this. The emphasis being on adding to it, not instead of it.

Stan Schofield
201 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:12:04
Just to add, our players are professionals, highly trained and highly paid. Trained to adapt. Paid to adapt. Similarly with the manager. They have to try harder and adapt, because that's what they're paid for, it's just not negotiable.

I believe if we keep focusing on future transfer windows, then we're letting the current crop, players and manager alike, off the hook. I want to see improvements, significant ones, with the current squad, sooner rather than later. Future signings are there to enhance such improvements further.

And I'm not interested whether the manager has an emotional attachment to Everton. He's a paid professional, with a job to improve us on the pitch. That's it. Anything he does or says has to be consistent with this.

The only people with emotional attachment to Everton are, so far as I can see, us supporters.

Don Alexander
202 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:22:25
Okay, I'll take back a bit of what I said about international teams but am I the only one to feel disgust that amongst the so-called great and good at the most recent Euros a team like Iceland repeatedly showed up the stars?

That's Iceland, the only team with a preponderance of players who have actual real-world jobs rather than the gold plated Rollers and life-style given to the shirkers we have masquerading as professional footballers.

Andrew Clare
203 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:30:31
If a team is set up defensively, then it stands to reason that the other team is being invited to attack. The result? Less chances are created by the defensive minded team. This is exactly where we are this season.

How to overcome this situation? Either recruit players that can play both the roles of attack and defence in midfield (rare) or sign a dominant footballing central defender who can bring the ball forward and pass the ball (rare – Stones was part of this player but he could not be described as dominant), playing with one defensive midfielder allowing more attacking/creative players into the team.

At the moment we have two central defenders who are in reality 'stoppers' – traditional centre half's with very limited footballing skills and zero distribution ability. We also have two defensive midfielders one who is coming to the end of his career and the other who is very good.

We should scrap this set up and bring in:

1. A dominant footballing centre back with good distribution.

2. Try Barkley in a deep lying creative midfield role or bring in this type of player.

Obviously other positions need to be addressed but these are the main priorities for January. We need to spend big to get the best available. With the right people, the impact would be massive. In the meantime, the team should be adjusted to play this way using our current crop of players.

Patrick Murphy
204 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:37:09
Just watched Tim Cahill score in the Australian FFA Cup Final. There's more enthusiasm from Tim in that 30 seconds than we've seen from the whole Everton squad in the last 3 or more matches. He's 36 so far older than many of our team but retains the love of the game – which our lads seem to have lost.

TC Again!

Brian Harrison
205 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:42:54
I would think that this spell at Everton is massive for Ronald Koeman, should he fail he can kiss goodbye to landing a job with a top European club.

So I think the next couple of seasons will be very interesting, can he get this club virtually guaranteed Europa League football and challenging for the top 4 during his time.To do that he will need a massive transfer kitty if he ever hopes to challenge for a top 4 place.

Now I know some will say Leicester won the league without spending a fortune, yes they did but this was a once-in-a-100-year chance. The top 4 places oof teh Premier League are usually occupied by clubs who spend vast amounts on players.

So as much as this a question over Koemans ability it will also show if Mr Moshiri is prepared to invest the vast sums that are needed to make this happen. Plus there is also a new ground to pay for so it wont be easy.

I think provided we are not dragged into a relegation battle then Koeman will be given time. But wherever we finish this season the fans will be looking for an improvement in style as well as where we finish in the league.

Phil Walling
206 Posted 30/11/2016 at 10:59:47
Well said, Stan @ 201. Like you, I don't believe – as so many do – that a competent manager should be excused from inspiring the playing staff he inherited to greater effort and achievement.

Most of the present squad are Internationals and should be performing at a level far above recent games. It's sheer nonsense to write them all off whilst we wait for half a dozen windows to provide Koeman with 'his' players – many of whom will be no more talented than the ones we have.

He was hired 'to make a difference' – so far his impact has been modest. Were we a so-called 'top' club, he would already be under pressure whilst here, we are just told 'to be patient'.

Brian Harrison
207 Posted 30/11/2016 at 11:21:15
Phil,

As you post on numerous occasions you say we are a 7th to 11th finishing club. So yes, you are right to say the manager should be making a difference, but if we spend about what teams who finish mid table, why expect a different outcome?

That's why a lot of us are saying after the next 2 windows it will give us a better idea of Koeman's ability and Moshiri's financial backing.

Patrick Murphy
208 Posted 30/11/2016 at 11:47:19
It's true that Leicester City's achievement was a blip in the money-dominated Premier League, as they achieved the lowest points per game ratio since Everton won it in 1987. Mind you, they still had to do it and can take great credit for it.

Spend the money to bolster and improve the squad by all means but only if the club / individual can afford it – we have to be very careful of a Peter Johnson Mark II situation arising. If Moshiri had have come in three or four years ago, his money may have made a huge difference; now we need the money to retain any hope of having a top ten team. That I think is why many fans are asking Ronald to produce more from the players he has inherited.

Phil Walling
209 Posted 30/11/2016 at 12:16:39
Again, you are right, Brian. I think we were hoping that Koeman would be able to improve the players we have to the extent that a finish higher than eleventh might be achieved. Then Moshiri could throw a few bob at him to see us get back to regular 'seventhish'.

To me, that is the limit of our aspiration. The Sky Six are now so far ahead in virtually every aspect that we will rarely be able to challenge them regardless of the owner's investment because the new legislation is designed to keep 'pretenders' at bay.

Who knows, occasionally we may be able to break through that glass ceiling to worry 'the elite' but, in the main, we shall have to be satisfied with 'best of the rest' and the occasional cup.

Not too much to ask, is it?

Brian Harrison
210 Posted 30/11/2016 at 12:48:49
There is no doubt that the FFP rules will make it very very difficult for clubs outside of the Sky 6 to break into that elite group. And I don't want us to to do what Peter Risdale did at Leeds, as that policy has only one ending.

Moshiri has already said that a new ground is his priority and finding new revenue streams is also high on his agenda. We sadly have fallen so far behind the other top clubs in respect of revenues from gate receipts, sponsorship and other revenue streams that it will take time to put right.

The one thing that every manager asks for and fans hate to hear is time to put things right. But, as I said in an earlier post, the next 2 transfer windows will give us a greater idea of Koeman's and Walsh's ability and just how much backing they will get from Moshiri.

Brian Denton
211 Posted 30/11/2016 at 13:02:52
Patrick (#208) – that did sound a bit of a dodgy stat, so (as is my wont) I had a look at the figures.

Didn't take long – in 1992-93 Man Utd won it with 84 points from 42 games. We won it with 86 from 42 in 1986-87.

Patrick Murphy
212 Posted 30/11/2016 at 13:21:48
Brian (#211),

I must have some other stat that invlolved Everton and Leicester but off the top of my head I can't think what it was. I had that stuck in my head for some reason but thanks for keeping me honest.

That's the problem with trying to combine work and TW, it isn't the best time to make 'bold' statements.

John Raftery
213 Posted 30/11/2016 at 13:41:40
Koeman must start analysing his own performance as manager. What has he done to change the mindset of the team so that, for example, they start games on the front foot rather than panicking in their own penalty area from their own kick off?

When he was manager, Howard Kendall had a simple tactic from the kick off of launching the ball diagonally into the opposition's half for Sharp to compete in the air by the touchline. Worst scenario was the opposition gained a throw in deep in their own half. That way you don't concede early possession in your own half and don't concede a goal after 42 seconds.

Focusing on some simple stuff and demanding the players do the simple stuff well is surely not beyond Koeman's, or his players' capability.

Martin Nicholls
214 Posted 30/11/2016 at 14:11:44
I might be wrong here but, after this latest shambolic performance, have we been spared the usual trotting out of a player to tell us "we know it's not good enough and we'll do better next time" nonsense?
Max Murphy
215 Posted 30/11/2016 at 14:25:23
“I think the start by Southampton was better than our start, “
The man's a genius!

Sack the fraud! Get Unsy in!

Max Murphy
216 Posted 30/11/2016 at 14:59:02
Good point, John (#213). Such a simple tactic, yet so effective. It also gave plenty of time for the team to settle into their positions, while the opposition had to deal with the ball in their own half.
Oliver Molloy
217 Posted 30/11/2016 at 15:14:14
Martin,

Every time we don't get a result we have the spin within 48 hours – either more news about the proposed new stadium or a player we are interested in, or a new sign and lick of paint at Goodison. It is all so predictable just like the way the team are playing.

There are at least 6 players at Everton not good enough in my opinion and another 4 who need replacing sooner rather than later – that's 10 in total.

For the first time in a long time I can honestly say I am not looking forward to the derby at our place. Koeman bigging up our fiercest rivals is for me like hanging out a white flag already. This is not Koemans team I keep saying but he needs to start to show us all he knows what he's at.

Mark Melton
218 Posted 30/11/2016 at 15:24:39
Interesting read and it supports what some on here have said about Koeman's reluctance to blood young talent.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2016/11/29/southampton-glowing-proving-point-ronald-koeman-proud-put-talent/

Bill Gall
219 Posted 30/11/2016 at 15:54:07
Will people stop saying this is not Koemans team. When you join an organization as a manager of that organization you are responsible for the people that you manage.

As a Premier League manager, Koeman must have seen videos and reports of Everton's players and tactics over previous seasons, and have been aware of their weaknesses. He had time and if we are led to believe the finances to improve the squad prior to the start of the season and before the window closed. He has a full squad of first team players plus numerous youth players to choose from but it his decision who he plays, and who he trains all week prior to playing whoever are his opponents.

As far as who he signed there is imo only Gueye that is an improvement to what we had. There are a couple of Premier League teams who supporters consider their playing staff not as good as ours but when you watch some of the lower teams their manager still has seemed to install a fighting attitude with a definite plan. Everton have no identity on the playing field, their game plan seems predictable with no Plan B.

This is Koeman's team; he picks the players, he oversees the training, and he lays out the tactics. He is not the only manager to take over another team and a successful manager should be able to manage with what he has, and not be given excuses of "it is not his team" for poor performances.

Oliver Molloy
222 Posted 30/11/2016 at 18:08:14
Bill, yes, he's the manager of the team and I agree it is his responsibility to get the best out of what he has but this is not a squad that he has assembled is it?

We are ALL in the dark regards if there is money to buy players or not because to date Moshiri has failed to put his hands in his pockets for players. He has been all talk up to now.

It is rumoured that Bolasie was brought in to keep Lukaku happy as they are big buddies off the pitch. So he has bought the goalkeeper in reality.

Bill Gall
223 Posted 30/11/2016 at 22:57:21
Oliver, sorry it took me so long to reply.

"Yes" this is not a squad that he has assembled, but the point I was trying to make was, there was no mention of this "not" being his team when we were winning games, but seems to be used as an excuse now we are going through a rough patch.

As far as Bolasie goes, there was one comment i read that seems to sum him up and that was, "He has lots of speed going down the wings, but it seems he needs a map to find the goal".

Lee Brownlie
224 Posted 01/12/2016 at 05:00:47
I think he (Koeman) has already made a big mistake, as did his predecessor, in his 'handling' of the players playing mentality...

To say 'It will take time to get them playing as we wish' as he tends to, may be true but to say it publicly for those players to hear really just gives them an in-built 'excuse' not to fully commit to the cause or leastways to take responsibility when they let us down again (in whatever phase of the game).

Still, its preferable to saying how great we're really playing despite the clear and opposite result(s) as per Martinez. A clear out and a kick-start in the offing, I hope!

As for comparisons in personality with a twat like Klopp, I'll take our man's genuinely 'serious business, this' demeanour every time over a patently false and way OTT 'look at me laughing, crying, being super-serious, jovial' attention-seeker over the way, there. His words to the media like-wise. Klopp is a caricature of apparent fit-for-the-occasion emotion..

Sod Herr Klopp and his Liverpool pretenders.. they're doing good now, but we've seen that all before recent times.. so for how long again? Fuck em!!!

I'm remaining hopeful and still trusting our man to get it right..coyt!!!

Ralph Basnett
225 Posted 01/12/2016 at 07:17:44
I think the start by Southampton was better than our start, Koeman said. “The 1-0 so fast in the game makes it difficult, they dropped back with a lot of ball possession."

The man is a fuckin genius to have noticed the above!!!

Things would only have been worse for this clown if he had been successful signing Sissoko.

Taxi for Koeman... Unsy et al to run this debacle of a club.

Stan Schofield
226 Posted 01/12/2016 at 16:01:37
Lee @224: Well said. Professional players should be adapting, and shouldn't be given potential excuses not to. That's why they get paid a lot, I would have thought.

Regarding the 'pressing game', I increasingly get the impression that this is just bullshit, in-vogue terminology for what has always been the case, ie, players have to be fit to do the job.

The way Klopp and some others are treating it, they seem to be making players into long-distance runners, in place of having a football brain. The physical stresses might not be sustainable over a season. Maybe that's why his lot are accumulating injuries.

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