Martinez: I will always treasure my memories at Everton

Friday 16 December 2016  101 Comments  [Jump to last]

Former Everton manager Roberto Martinez says that he looks back fondly at his time at Goodison Park, even if he was ultimately unable to bring the success to the club that his first season in charge promised he might.

Speaking to Darren Fletcher on BBC 5 Live in his first full interview about his time with Toffees since he was sacked in May following an abysmal sequence of results, the new boss of the Belgian national team spoke of his pride at his relative successes at Everton — not least the progress of some of the club's bright young stars — and rejected the charge often levelled at him that his team was defensively weak.

“I think everyone knows that in the modern game, [it's] based on results and I don't think as managers that we're naïve enough to understand that if you don't win enough games that your job is going to be safe,” he said when asked if he was surprised to lose his post at Everton.

“The clear feeling that I have now when I can look back is not just on the final seven weeks or since the moment we lost the semi-final of the FA Cup at Wembley. It's more about the three years, the three seasons that I had at Everton and straight away I understood the demands and I understood that, as the Everton manager, you are demanded to push the team to try to challenge for silverware, first and foremost, and then try to qualify for Europe. If you don't do that you risk the situation of losing your job.

“But I will always treasure my memories as Everton manager, of reaching the Europa League, of getting 72 points, to being the last British team to be knocked out of Europe in one season. And in the last campaign we were so, so close to getting to the final of both domestic cups.

“In many aspects obviously I had the short-term ambition to bring that silverware for everyone at Everton because, as Evertonians, the fans of the football club deserve that. It's been too long since they had silverware.

“And then, on the other side, I still get satisfaction with our long-term project that we had in hand — seeing players that we invested in heavily, giving them big roles like John Stones, Ross Barkley and Romelu Lukaku. They have clearly taken the football club to a different level… players that can be very important or players who can get good value in the [transfer] market, like happened with John Stones.

“So I will treasure those memories forever even though we couldn't finish the job that I felt in the long term was a very exciting opportunity.”

The Catalan was asked about what he had learned as the boss at Goodison and what, if any, lessons he has taken from the experience into his new role on the international stage.

In particular, it was put to him that one of the criticisms of his Everton side was that they conceded too many goals. Martinez started by explaining that there was no room for patience given the pressure in the modern game to show improvement but he rejected the idea that his team was a soft touch at the back.

“Understanding the perception, we were not a soft team that conceded easy goals all the time. We became, psychologically, a team quite prone to concede goals at home. If you look at our away record, it was very strong.

“But sometimes a perception develops a little bit of extra pressure that affects other areas. But we had really good moments and other poor moments. I think we conceded so many goals at home that affected our league form but in the cups we were always competitive, we were always capable of challenging teams.

“And, as I said, we were carrying the huge belief and expectations that as Everton we could challenge for silverware and, unfortunately, we couldn't reach it.”

 

Reader Comments (101)

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Peter Mills
1 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:32:29
I always try to take a balanced view of things. So I'll contain myself to "Utter bollocks".
Peter Laing
2 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:35:11
More of the same phenomenal drivel.
Steve Hogan
3 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:38:52
Quite simply... he remains absolutely deluded.
Gerard Carey
4 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:44:39
Just shows he has learned nothing from his time at Everton, deluded.
Jay Harris
5 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:47:32
He fails to mention the mess he left behind.

So glad he's gone.

Mick Davies
6 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:48:07
"So I will treasure those memories forever."

We won't!
Trevor Peers
7 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:52:35
He doesn't arrff go on, doesn't he... yawn.
Mike Price
8 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:56:53
Right place, right time and so he became a multi-millionaire. So limited and yet he was allowed to sign a ridiculous contract with no get-out clause.

Him taking £10 million from our club for abject failure and then sweet talking the Belgium job a few weeks later makes me want to throw up.

Mick Davies
9 Posted 16/12/2016 at 22:57:11
When Finch Farm was the Funny Farm!
Kieran Kinsella
10 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:07:55
In fairness what's he going to say? I suck? He was quite respectful. He seemed to accept why he was sacked. He paid the price for his failings by losing his job. I don't see the need to keep hammering the guy on here.
Raymond Fox
11 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:07:56
Yes Trevor, just like the predictable queue of critics lining up.

His comments about the first season, the young players and the two cup semis are cobblers too, I suppose?

Trevor Peers
12 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:19:43
Raymond, you loved and lost him; get over it – he was an amateur.
Andrew James
13 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:22:07
If you were in a casino, Moyes spread about his chips so overall he didn't lose or win too much. He'd break even or turn a little profit. Martinez staked everything on one hand. That is why he won the FA Cup and got relegated in the same season.

He came to us with the same idea but we were bleeding chips left, right and centre. He is right in that he nearly got us to Wembley proper but we could seriously have reached a whole host of semis or finals and gone down under him. I want silverware but am not prepared to get relegated alongside that.

I am not yet sure what type of gambler Koeman is. He's currently shuffling the pack.

Suffice to say, for an average lower league professional player with a questionable managerial record, that Martinez is a multi millionaire shows how ridiculous the game has become.

Andrew Presly
14 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:22:30
Doesn't deserve the comments above. Wasn't the first season the best domestic campaign most of us under 35 have ever experienced?

We know what years 2 and 3 brought but there was something there, surely?

Should've been sacked pre the derby, which predictably became a massacre and obviously before the semi. We should've won it even with him. It's typical Everton.

Damian Wilde
15 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:40:53
Same old tired 'bullshit'.

Very bored with the 'last British team in Europe' line, so what? Is that an achievement? Fucking idiot.

And the constant insistence that we had a good away record – complete lie, we drew most of them.

Man's a fool. Don't ever come back. He basically ruined us.

Andy Riley
16 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:44:56
Andrew James – I more or less agree. Ultimately he was a failure but by being a bit of a gambler he made us dream. He got rid of the "knife to a gunfight" mentality of David Moyes but loss us all in the end.

Nevertheless, I've got some great memories of that first season – Oviedo baby scoring the winner at Old Trafford for one. Somehow over the last 20 or so years we've always not been able to make that last serious step. Maybe some real investment after finishing fifth in 2014 might have really moved us and shown Martinez to be a hero.

It was the same story really at different times under Moyes and earlier with Joe Royle and Howard Kendall Mk 2 – remember the board's refusal to sanction the signing of Dion Dublin leading to his resignation. There is one constant presence in all of this!

Raymond Fox
17 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:46:32
It doesn't matter to me who the manager is, Trevor, no skin off my nose.

I just like to see fair play, his criticism is/was way over the top for what actually happened. There were positives as well as negatives in the 3 years that never get mentioned.

Andy Riley
18 Posted 16/12/2016 at 23:52:40
Just hope Ronald Koeman gets the backing required so no more false dawns.
Nick Armitage
19 Posted 16/12/2016 at 00:04:02
Martinez understood Everton and understood the fans but that was his only redeeming feature. Sadly he will be remembered for wasting £13.5m on Niasse and then rinsing the club for another £10m when he got his deserved P45.
Joe O'Brien
20 Posted 17/12/2016 at 00:06:58
I won't, Bobby. I'm trying to forget them and hope our team rights it self from all the damage that you've done to it sooner rather than later. Still a work in progress, it's like they've got to de-programme themselves.
Chris Leyland
21 Posted 17/12/2016 at 00:10:55
Apparently he claims that his development of young players took us to 'a different level' and he is right. He took us from a consistent top 6/7 team to a bottom half club and he managed it in quick time.

Since when is getting to two semi-finals success? Every time I see the words Martinez and Everton in the same sentence, I cringe with embarrassment.

The man is and always will be a deluded tit, a fraud and a conman.

John Daley
22 Posted 17/12/2016 at 00:17:02
Bit like a mini snapshot of his managerial reign.

He got me straightaway with his words about Evertonians demanding/deserving success and to be challenging for trophies... started to lose me when he listed his so called 'achievements'... before making me pull a right disapproving smacked-arse face like Nurse Ratched when he said 'his' players (like Stones, Rom and Ross) have taken us "to another level".

That is how you give a good interview, Ron.

Don Alexander
23 Posted 16/12/2016 at 00:18:08
Martinez was seriously abject for us. He damaged young players. The clue is that Distin and Eto'o departed after speaking up against his stupidity – the latter, weeks after the Catalan Clown signed him.

Having been hammered in Kiev others, including Rom, Seamus, Bainesy and Jags, went public saying that we then staved off relegation by winning 10 points in May by utilising the "old Everton playing style". We know lads. We watched you, and it was good to see at last.

His appointment probably ain't Kenwright's most serious "error of judgement" (I'm being kind with that term, it's Christmas after all) but never can anyone outside EPL football management have ever had a lifetime's Christmas's at once like Martinez, courtesy of Bill "What? A Chairman?!!!" Kenwright. Every penny of his compo should have been paid by Kenwright if he has any notion of being a Toffee. He'd still be a multimillionaire after the sale to Moshiri after all.

James Byrne
24 Posted 17/12/2016 at 00:23:57
Mr Martinez, the only thing you'll treasure from your Everton experience is that ridiculous 㾷 Million pay off you got when you were sacked, you complete prick.

You were never an Everton manager, never an Everton supporter; the only person you fooled during your dismal tenure was that drama queen Bill Kenwright.

Brian Williams
25 Posted 17/12/2016 at 00:47:51
A dreamer and an ideologist who couldn't, or wouldn't, deal with the realities of Premier League football.

In his defence, he actually wanted the best for Everton. Unfortunately he didn't have a fucking clue how to go about doing that – although he believed he did – without realizing the majority of people operate in the real world and not Martinezland.

Stephen Scofield
26 Posted 17/12/2016 at 01:23:19
He ruined the defensive legacy Moyes left behind and completely ruined some excellent footballers with his terrible training regimes, from what I've heard.
Tony Byrne
27 Posted 17/12/2016 at 01:34:35
I have been kicked in the plums by Everton hundreds of times, the same as every other Evertonian in the past 40 odd years, but this guy actually managed to drain a lot of passion out of me that I always had for my club.

Never have I ever been so insulted by a manager of Everton football club in terms of utter verbal diarrhoea, on a daily basis, a bullshitting fantasist who would fit in quite perfectly in the corridors of Westminster.

Ronald Koeman may not be the answer long term but his honesty has given me belief again. Tuesday night at Goodison may just be the start of getting my mo-jo back after being scarred by that fraud.

Chris Leyland
28 Posted 17/12/2016 at 01:48:37
Brian Williams – love your comment 'in his defence' given that he had no defence for the last 2 years of his reign!!
Anthony Dwyer
29 Posted 17/12/2016 at 01:58:06
I was one of Martinez's first and harshest critics, but it's only fair to give credit were its due.

His first season was great, even though we were embarrassing at the Emirates in the FA Cup, but he just didn't follow it through.

He seemed to lose his bottle, he had balls the first season, he went after the win all the time, but he lost himself in philosophies and all that crap.

I'd have loved Martinez to have carried on his first season with the same sort of things the next few seasons. Martinez always spoke highly of the Blues, unlike some!

Anyways, unfortunately he wasn't good enough, and we move on.

Gavin Johnson
30 Posted 17/12/2016 at 02:05:40
I can honestly see Martinez being a success at national level, based on the notion that you have to go for the win in tournaments.

He did have a good record in cup competitions. I never felt like we would win a trophy under Moyes. We came pretty close in a few competitions in a relatively short time under Martinez. Unfortunately it came completely to the detriment of league form where we were tactically clueless when teams sat back and defended against us.

John Pierce
31 Posted 17/12/2016 at 03:42:41
A baited hooked. That's how the article reads. I did listen to the interview and, in typical BBC fashion, nothing pressing was asked.

Bobby was allowed to put his side of the divorce forward having 'managed' Belgium to a decent spin of results.

A deeply flawed, idealistic guy. People say he 'got' Everton and Evertonians, well maybe but I was never his man. Even trying to balance the tenure, his abdication of accountability was scurrilous, something I cannot get over.

International footy may suit him as the scrutiny is never as deep. Could he manage a side to 6/7 wins on one tournament with a fair wind. Yes, he could.

Never an Everton manager.

Tony Draper
32 Posted 17/12/2016 at 06:48:27
Roberto, when you arrived, you were a breath of fresh air, a ray of sunshine and I deeply appreciated that, I always will. It made such a relief from the constant drizzle of Eyores gloomy place. You awakened something long set asleep by years of morbidity.

Sadly Roberto, I stopped bothering to listen. The more that you talked, the less that you delivered, the drizzle returned, but you wanted me to believe that the sun was shining brightly. It wasn't, it was just another disappointment.

As with your predecessor, I'm glad that you have gone.

There are things that both of you did that I love, there were far, far, far too many that I never did, never could.

Learn Roberto, learn.

Less is more.

Kristian Boyce
33 Posted 17/12/2016 at 06:53:14
As per usual, he deflected any blame from himself and maintains he is always right, when it was clearly obvious his methods weren't working.

Also the comments about the young players are a total joke. I think Stones was better when he first broke into the squad. His Man City move is becoming a bit of a nightmare after playing like a 'Martinez ' defender.

Has Lukaku improved much since we first got him? Still can't trap a ball.

Lastly Barkley, Martinez encouraged the mistakes as a young player, to learn from them. By the looks of it, he hasn't. His game is full of mistakes which should of been stamped out then, but it seems he was never taken to task on them.

Trevor Lynes
34 Posted 17/12/2016 at 07:26:00
The man is asked questions and he answers them! That is what every football manager has to do!! He unfortunately did not manage to raise the side to a better level, but all managers are scapegoats for every teams failures.

My opinion of Roberto is that he seemed a genuine person, probably very likeable and possibly too soft for the job at EFC. It remains to be seen what Mr Koeman can do remedy the situation.

Kim Vivian
35 Posted 17/12/2016 at 07:57:52
Seconded, KK (#10).
Stan Schofield
37 Posted 17/12/2016 at 08:27:45
Bullshitters tend to be attention seekers. If Martinez is an attention seeker, then he's getting what he wants. It strikes me there's too much attention on him, particularly on TW. He's not at Everton now, and we need discuss him no more. Onwards and upwards in this 'new era'?
Mark McParlan
38 Posted 17/12/2016 at 08:35:28
I really think that many of the comments above are unwarranted; yes, his tenure was ultimately a disaster and he deserved to be sacked, but there were good moments on the way.

What is clear though, in my opinion, is that Martinez did love Everton as a club, I think he really cared. All he's doing is saying he tried and enjoyed managing Everton.

Andy Meighan
39 Posted 17/12/2016 at 09:29:05
Still haven't forgiven him for the two 4-0 hidings at Anfield... two in 3 seasons. Nearly 50 years of watching Everton and no manager managed that. And my God we've had some shit sides in that time.

Be grateful for small mercies, though because if Kenwright had his way, that fucking imbecile would still be here. Still nice to see him talking complete and utter shite as per usual...

Oh, thanks, Bob, for making us the last British team to be knocked out of Europe – it completely slipped my mind that.

Colin Glassar
40 Posted 17/12/2016 at 09:30:54
Roberto ALMOST took us to the Nirvana then he ALMOST took us to Hades. A sad legacy he's left us.
Danny Broderick
41 Posted 17/12/2016 at 09:43:15
Started well, but I'll always remember that sub he made against West Ham at home. When added to the signings of McGeady, Niasse etc, it shows he had well and truly lost it in the end.
Steve Ferns
42 Posted 17/12/2016 at 09:47:06
If he was so shit, why have we only bettered the 72 point total three times in our history? He did it with Moyes's team? But he got 7 points more than Moyes ever managed, and notes had 11 years of trying.

All the managers and all the money spent in the Premier League era and in the glory days of the '80s and still only Kendall ('85, '86 and '87) has achieved it since we went to three points for a win. Harvey didn't with a League Champions side.

Also, he won more than 20 league games in a season. Only Kendall and has also achieved that since the Cat. So, no, most of you are talking more bollocks than Martinez.

I'd sum him up as a erratic manager. Capable of greatness, but too flawed and stubborn to be able to maintain it for any consistent period of time.

I think he'll get a job in Spain at some point and have far more success there.

Tony Abrahams
43 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:02:14
You could be right, Steve, because I think the man at least understands what he wants to do.

I came to the conclusion last season that Roberto would make an absolutely fantastic youth development coach, and still think that this could be his best vocation in football.

I'm watching Guardiola closely, because I'm not sure it's easy to implement such a style on seasoned professionals, and feel it's something that's got to be taught from a very early age.

Steve Ferns
44 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:11:12
Yes, Tony, I've been a massive fan of Pep for a long time. He came along in the time when everyone was trying to buy bigger, faster, stronger. He showed that technique, vision, and skill were the better qualities and played the best football I ever saw in that now legendary Barcelona team.

His Munich side were far more pragmatic, especially with Alonso and his range of passing.

So I expected to see an even more pragmatic Pep at Man City. But he's appearing to be just as stubborn as Roberto. It's going to be an interesting watch...

Jeff Armstrong
45 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:12:40
Steve (#42) all your praise is for season 1, what about the decent parts of seasons 2 & 3?

I know where season 4 was taking us... in fact, just about now, we would be looking for a new manager going into a derby.

When stating the FACTS don't forget to use ALL of them... the whole story.

Karl Jones
46 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:23:25
The first season was the best I have felt as an Evertonian since the 84-87 period. Even the home defeat to Man City, which ultimately denied the Red Shite the Premier League title, was a good moment!

A pity it all petered out because we looked a really top side for most of that season. I still can't understand what went wrong, but that is the ups and down of being an Evertonian.

Joe Clitherow
47 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:25:11
I heard this interview and, surprisingly, it wasn't Martinez that had me wanting to throw things at the radio.

Although just to pedantically correct some of the posts above, Martinez's first season wasn't the fabulous quantum leap some are remembering. The first half was good, the second - not so much, with the wheels coming off almost completely after the first of his derby thrashings which was very painful. The Arsenal win the sole highlight in my view, but characteristically showing failure to push on straight after this performance.

The clues for his future were set in his first season. We actually didn't finish a million miles higher from the previous season, and for me, having seen trophies at Goodison, and even a Champions League qualification from his predecessor, it doesn't go down as a "great" season by any measure.

But with respect to the interview, the thing that REALLY annoyed me were the comments by so-called "experts" (Jermaine Jenas) which just regurgitated second hand, mythical soundbite comments that do not stand up to scrutiny at all.

Two that stood out were along the lines of him performing beyond the wildest dreams of Wigan, when, granted he won the FA Cup, but both Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce performed consistently better than him in the League. Wigan were actually a fairly solid Premier League team for a number of years before Roberto Martinez took over. In my book no FA Cup win would ever compensate for relegation. and the years since from which Wigan have still not recovered.

The main one though was the statement that he was doing okay "until the Goodison crowd turned on him". Absolutely infuriating!! Let me state to "experts" who watch the odd highlight of Everton games that I attended virtually every single home game and a fair few away whilst Martinez was in charge and the Goodison crowd NEVER turned against him en masse like we have seen at Newcastle and Sunderland and others. A few placards in the last few games long after he should have gone doesn't count.

Let me reiterate this statement for the few posters on here who clearly never attend games and propagate the same myth. He sucked the life out of us and left us apathetic for the most part, and to be honest, was treated far more kindly by the match going fans than his performances deserved.

I also don't think it is a coincidence that Jermaine Jenas trots out another tired old cliche that Ross Barkley may need to move away from Everton to "resurrrect" his career in the same week that paper talk links him with a move to Tottenham.

Why do these people get paid to regurgitate unresearched soundbites out of licence-payer money?

George McKane
48 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:26:55
However poor some of his qualities were as a Manager – and I believe (from what I have heard) they were many – we do not need to call him unpleasant names. I believe (from what I have heard) that he was a very pleasant and caring man – thoughtful to all the staff.

As a Manager, he failed miserably in the end but he gave me personally more glimpses of what could be than any Manager since Kendall in the '80s... sadly he just couldn't deliver. So I guess we can call him names.

As always, the well-paid professional players who either lacked the courage or desire to challenge his opinions and ideas just carry on as normal.

I wanted to like Martinez and see him succeed but his management failures were too many and too big... but I wonder how much he was challenged to change some of his ideas by our wondrous management structure and (some) weak players?

Strangest profession in the world football. Failure is a great success. Ask Benitez, pay-off after pay-off and a new job 2 or 3 days later... ask Allardyce or Mc Claren.

But still a Blue and always will be. God Bless Us All.

Matthew Williams
49 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:36:49
I agree with Steve Ferns's assessment, a lot of fans seem to put Martinez in the same bracket as managers like Mike Walker.

You can't deny what he did in his first season even if it was David Moyes team. some of the performances were some of the best football I have ever seen Everton play, he made some bad signings but some have been good as well.

I always thought he needed to make changes to his coaching team and be a bit more open minded to change and be a bit more flexible with tactics.

To sum him up, he could have left a much better legacy; he has the potential to be a very good manager but he needs to take a break and assess his own weaknesses and come back better.

I will watch how he does at Belgium as I always thought he would be a better international manager than club.

Joe Clitherow
50 Posted 17/12/2016 at 10:42:24
Excellent post, George. But I would take a bit of issue with your point about him being challenged by players taking responsibility because it is clear that he WAS challenged, either directly or indirectly, deliberately or by mistake (Distin, Garbutt, Baines...) and his behaviour was classic passive-aggressive in that he seemed to freeze them out in quite a disproportionate way.

Hitler was apparently sweetness and light where dogs were concerned to illustrate in an extreme way (I'm not saying he was Hitler before people get on my case).

So, anecdotally, I'm sure he was very nice when things were going well and people conformed to his way, but there seemed to be another side of him which seemed more than a bit nasty and unforgiving.

His stubbornness, lack of adaptability and inability to accept he got things wrong are HUGE flaws when it comes to managing football teams to win games. I think this is the thing that made things personal for some people when they saw his interviews: it felt quite personally insulting to me at least.

On the whole, that lack of balance (which strangely enough was also the major flaw in his football sides) makes him, in my book at least, not a particularly nice man.

Chris Williams
51 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:06:10
Joe @47,

Absolutely agree with you about the Goodison crowd and Martinez. There were the odd murmurs against him, expressed by members of the crowd in conversation with each other, and these grew more common during the second half of last season, post Christmas, when the wheels had well and truly come off. But it never developed into any overt demonstration even after failures in semi-finals etc.

It was nothing like the ranting on here, in which I was also involved. It's as big a myth as the crowd turning on Barkley. It doesn't happen.

Patient lot at Goodison. Always have been, although I can recall the crowd turning on Johnson at the season end one year.

George McKane
52 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:15:49
Really strong stuff, Joe, and I cannot disagree with most of it. Yes ultimately he let everyone down and did not have any real strength.

Interestingly, I have known many Managers personally from the '80s onwards – including Colin Harvey (a wonderful man) and Howard Kendall (a great man with a great heart and a great brain). In the past few years, the main contender for me as a man who lacked any form of personality, or indeed any vision beyond himself, was good old Mr Moyes.

But Joe, I know from your posts how much of a Blue you are, and how you articulate that love of the Club, and so it is pertinent at this time of the year that we should look forwards to the New Year(s) so this will be my last post on anything about Mangers from Christmas Past.

God Bless Tiny Tim and All Blues.

See you Monday at Goodison either via your seat at Goodison or armchair or in spirit – Up The Blues.

Patrick Murphy
53 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:19:33
Roberto forgot or more likely never learned the most important commandment of football "Thou shall not lose". If he had have slightly adjusted his philosophy to a more pragmatic one, he might have achieved great things with Everton.

Unfortunately what he managed to do in his relatively brief tenure was to expose the weaknesses of his players on an individual and collective basis. He seemed to have a sink-or-swim attitude towards football but once his head was under-water he had no idea how to re-surface or reach land.

I wouldn't have him in charge of any group of people; if they were embarked on a dangerous assignment he would end up losing a few members at each hazardous turn. That he would try to explain away the losses as a learning curve or a necessary experience and point to the survivors as being alive due to his brave philosophy and judgement – means he is a narcissist who has no agenda except his own.

His legacy has been plain to see and up until last Tuesday, I didn't think we'd see the proper Everton return for a whole lot longer. Perhaps he was let down by certain members of the squad, but a man with only one crazy plan shouldn't be listened to for very long.

Unfortunately some of our younger team members still have his messages ingrained in their brains and it will take a good while longer for them to realise that they need to throw out much of what he preached and return to a hard-work first and then play your football type philosophy.

I admit that I was taken in by his positive outlook and dearly wanted to see his Everton team going toe-to-toe with all and sundry, but the experience was like eating a fancy cake, great to look at when first out of the box but the more you ate the worse it tasted and the after effects lingered for far longer than you would like.

Dave Abrahams
54 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:47:12
I also agree with both Joe Clitherow's posts, the crowd were more or less passive towards Roberto, especially with the way the team were performing... or not performing, to be honest.

The team started performing to the way they wanted to play when we looked in danger of going down. I also have it on good authority, that they kicked off at half-time in the semi-final versus Man Utd, and played their own game in the second half.

Martinez had me believing in his first season that better things were coming our way but ultimately he failed to deliver. I went completely against him when he restored Howard to the team after Robles had done much better, in my opinion, than Tim.

I do not miss him, and I missed Moyes like a boil on my backside. As George says, he had no personality whatsoever, was overpaid and is proving how good he is since he left Everton. His talent (?) was massively overrated, but his bank manager was massively overjoyed.

Darren Hind
55 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:50:42
George @48 & 52

Excellent stuff.

I criticised Martinez almost incessantly when he was at the helm, but have first hand experience of his warmth as a human being – I bumped into him in town and he made my grand kids feel as if they were the only people in the city.

Roberto had a dream and like many of us he, unfortunately, lived to see it crushed.

Not the greatest manager we have had, but a warm gentle man, especially with kids – which makes him top banana in my book.

We sometimes (nearly always) forget that the managers we berate for not bringing us the success we crave, are human beings too.

Your posts serve as a little reminder.

Good stuff fella.

Mark Morrissey
56 Posted 17/12/2016 at 11:52:59
The inane interviews, full of lies and bullshit. Some interviews had me reaching for the remote. He was so maddening. Just did not seem to learn from his own mistakes.

It's like Mourinho not accepting he was a prick in the manner in which he treated his female physio. Some times in life you need to stand up and say "I was wrong and I'll put this right."

Everton ought to keep Martinez up at night but I bet he sleeps like a baby. One word: deluded.

Ray Roche
58 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:00:47
I'd hope that the vast majority of people who post reiterating their dislike for Martinez the manager, would not be regarding him in the same way as they would Martinez the man.

I recall the staff at Goodison and Finch Farm saying that he was a breath of fresh air and that the "Bring Me Sunshine" Christmas video would not have been allowed under Moyes.

He did indeed appear to be a likeable man but his managerial skills were sadly lacking.

Some very good posts on here.

Eddie Dunn
59 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:00:53
Martinez was a control freak. He did come across as a sincere, kind, and considerate guy. We could overlook some of his verbosity as he was conversing in his second language.

His stubbornness was his downfall. He stood alone on the touchline, never consulting his assistants; he isolated players who dared to criticise his methods.

His verbal diarrhea eventually just rubbed salt into the wounds for me. We never really got the full story from Eto'o or Distin.

A friend of mine is close to a former player who knew many of the staff at Finch Farm (can't give his name for obvious reasons) and towards the end of that first season, the senior players were calling him a "bullshitter". He had begun to lose some players during that run-in. The 72 points could so easily have been more, as the momentum from the win over Arsenal (which closed the gap between us) was lost in subsequent poor defensive displays.

Perhaps international management will suit him. The players will probably enjoy his bull for a short period at a time. He has the best chance to get success, as his pool of players is mind-bogglingly good. Cup competitions seem to be his forte, so perhaps he will do well.

Peter Gorman
60 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:03:16
Martinez might be a charlatan or a renaissance man, great with the kids, clueless with the players, a man with a flair for dancing but such bad taste in music he'll only dance to Jason Derulo.

We'll all have our particular take on him as an individual but, in the final analysis, I just don't like him for taking the club backwards several years and leaving it in a state that Koeman is now expending time and money to rectify.

Joe Clitherow
61 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:11:44
George, the biggest compliment I can pay you here is that your posts invariably make me stop and think.

I also met Colin and Howard and in terms of their flaws, I think Colin genuinely IS a nice man by any definition and lacked the necessary ruthless streak (in an unemotional, logic-only driven way that we seem to see in Koeman, which is not at all the same thing as spite). I won't put a name to Howard's obvious flaw out of respect to him, except to say that it was more a personal tragedy that makes the impact on his football career unimportant in comparison. Still my hero.

Moyes is – paradoxically – interesting. Without any direct evidence, my impression of him is that he is for the most part an intensely private individual who is nevertheless in the public eye and therefore doesn't show himself, with consequent results. I don't think you can accuse him of having no passion; I saw plenty from him on the touchline over his tenure.

Out of all these, Martinez is the only one whose problems manifest in transferring blame to others, and denying the obvious that people see with their own eyes. The term for this is of course, "Gaslighting", which is actually defined as a form of psychological abuse, and really does get people's backs up, which may explain the personal animosity.

Anyway, one day I should come down to that watering hole of yours that you talk about George for a pre-match pint, I'd like that.

See you – figuratively at least – under the lights on Monday.

Kevin Tully
62 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:21:17
There are two games which sum up Martinez's tenure with us. The 3-0 defeat of Arsenal was the first time in 20 years we had stood up and outplayed a Champions League side without trying to out-muscle them or play long, hopeful balls into the box hoping for a bit of luck.

The second one however, will send chills down the spine of every Evertonian who watched the game – Liverpool 4-0 just before the Cup semi-final. It could literally have finished 7 or 8-0. The Liverpool manager 'felt sorry' for an Everton side in a Merseyside Derby!!!

Martinez shone brightly for about 4 months... then fizzled out like a cheap firework. He left behind a broken and divided squad. That's not all his fault though, the players also need to take a look at themselves. The pay-off is irrelevant, the Chairman gave him that ridiculous contract.

Raymond Fox
64 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:35:23
When you look at what he was trying to do from the first team to the kids at Goodison, ie, a more skilful passing game al a Spanish football, it was laudable.

We had tried a Moyes style a make do and play to the strengths sort of management, which with the money spent on players was a logical way to go about it but with no silverware.

I think we tend to underestimate the achievements in the league that Moyes managed with his restricted transfer budget, Martinez had a very tough job to match Moyes in the league when he took over, almost on par with Moyes following Ferguson.

I won't ramble on about the record first season, a good run in the Europa or coming very close to a FA Cup last season to his credit.

If he lost the players last season it was probably the defenders that started the rot in relations, although there hasn't been much said since by the players to the detriment of Martinez. With his mantra of score more than the opposition it was the defenders that caught all the flack. Baines and Jags both lost their England places, if I had been a defender I wouldn't have been happy about our style.

Ultimately he failed because he attempted to play teams off the park when our players were not best suited to that style, so in that respect he was to blame.


Dean Adams
65 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:37:29
Martinez was very lucky that Moyes had left such a solid well drilled defence, but from day one he failed to continue the defensive training. It was always a matter of time before we began a decline with him.

Moving forward, he is now very lucky that he does not need to worry about defensive training as his Belgium team are all very good defenders at clubs where they are trained to be so, allowing him to be as frivolous as he was whilst here but with none of the consequences.

He is a very lucky man who has used that luck to make himself very wealthy. He will never be a great club manager because his philosophy is fatally flawed.

Joe Clitherow
66 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:39:55
Kevin, you forgot the 4-0 derby in his first season also.

I have to go back to 1982 and Rush scoring 4 to remember the same level of derby humiliation. The Gerrard hat-trick one doesn't reach that level.

The fact Martinez did it twice in his short run and that the second one should have been a much worse scoreline shows his ineptitude as no fluke.

That second one is probably the lowest I have felt as an Evertonian in a long long time.

Gary Willock
67 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:43:12
The man took to the club, stuck to his principles, and tried to do something he believed in. It didn't work out, and it almost ended in a disaster (the 4-0 may actually qualify as a disaster).

However, all of that is just history now, and that is what it should remain. There is no point holding grudges in life, so, wish him the best of luck in the future and if he ever wants to come back as a fan then he should be welcomed warmly.

Franny Porter
68 Posted 17/12/2016 at 12:53:20
Spot on, Joe. That second 4-0 derby defeat – which should have been 8-0 – was the single worst showing I have ever seen from an Everton team... and that's a bold statement.
Joe Clitherow
69 Posted 17/12/2016 at 13:03:00
Unfortunately, Gary I don't think it is entirely history as we are still paying off his debt, on and off the field. Only when his legacy is properly purged can we put him in the dustbin of history where he belongs.
Alan Bodell
70 Posted 17/12/2016 at 13:54:01
I guess the 㾶m he trousered holds a dear place in his heart too... fucking disgraceful business acumen by the club.
Patrick Murphy
71 Posted 17/12/2016 at 14:50:26
Obviously the managerial upheaval has cost the club dear in financial terms at least, as Everton's annual accounts have now been released, showing some declines in his dreadful final season.
Colin Glassar
72 Posted 17/12/2016 at 15:38:30
Well I'm not going to list Roberto's faults and weaknesses as they are all well and truly exposed on this thread. However, I'd like to highlight some of his positives.

1) Roberto was a decent dancer. We hadn't had one before.

He lost me completely when he went after our Bainsey publicly. Unbloodyforgivable.

Paul O'Neill
73 Posted 17/12/2016 at 15:42:27
Jeez will the haters give it a rest?! The man was asked a question. He answered it. He was good with youth, there was progress in the cups and Europe. He wasn't great ultimately but blimey we've had far worse. He's doing well with Belgium too. Leave the guy alone.

You guys look like bitter bullies still slagging him off. He hasn't done anything wrong. He did it his way and ultimately it didn't work and he was fired. Rightly. Move on.
Bill Watson
74 Posted 17/12/2016 at 18:45:30
When he was at Wigan, friends there said he was tactically clueless and should be sacked. Mistakenly, I thought the real problem was the limited squad he had.

After his first season with us I thought I'd been proved correct although there had been a few warning signs in particular Southampton and Liverpool, away.

After the piss-poor second season, I thought he should be given the benefit of the doubt and the third season would tell us which was the real Martinez. Well, it certainly did that and I thought that at any other club he would have been sacked by December. But he wasn't and gradually sucked the life out of the players and fans.

Nice guy? He sacked most of the backroom medical team and forced out Distin and Eto'o. The players were patently unfit: we couldn't defend, or attack, corners or free-kicks.

He said we didn't practice corners as we never scored from them: as we conceded so many from them the logic would have been to practice defending them. We didn't do that, either.

Definitely the worst manager since Walker. He'd have taken us down without a doubt.

Stan Schofield
75 Posted 17/12/2016 at 18:46:53
Paul, I realise 'haters' is a fashionable term, but really? Be serious. The posts on this thread are in reality peoples' considered opinions on a manager who had some successes but who's failings dwarfed the successes significantly. Yes, by all means let's move on, but at the same time there's no point is labelling folks with a ridiculous term.
Roger Helm
76 Posted 17/12/2016 at 20:27:01
Reading the interview he's not so much praising the club as bigging up what he sees as his achievements, no doubt with a view to future employment.

We stopped listening to him long before he left because what he said bore no relation to reality. He didn't think we were defensively weak? If so, he was the only one in Europe.

It was clear to the whole world that his methods weren't working in his second season but did he change? Not one bit, which shows him to be either arrogant, incompetent or stubborn, or a combination of all three, no matter how nice he is to children.

It will take some years to recover from his legacy, and the missing 㾶 million he trousered won't help that; I just hope Koeman is the man for the job.

Christy Ring
77 Posted 17/12/2016 at 21:35:26
The one great memory of Martinez, was bringing Howard Kendall back to the club. He brought him to Finch Farm (his first time there), and made him feel at home. I have to say he treated him with the respect he deserved. He never got that from Moyes.
Scott Robinson
78 Posted 17/12/2016 at 21:39:31
A lot of the comments on here are just bitter and dispirited – the worst of human nature. Martinez failed, but he had some success too.

We haven't seen one display of decent football for 90 minutes from our new highly paid manager so far... let us be graceful, rather than always kicking the can as hard as we can.

Peter Gorman
79 Posted 17/12/2016 at 22:44:35
Hear, hear, Scott. And whilst we are at it, can we stop all the "holier than thou" attitude from fans who have derailed a topic about the man's merits (or lack of) onto some ludicrous dig at other fans for having different opinions.

At a guess it seems the only people who can't get over it are those that backed the lame duck well beyond the patience of the majority but it is never easy admitting you get it wrong.

Paul Hewitt
80 Posted 17/12/2016 at 22:53:46
The worst manager we have ever had.
Peter Mills
81 Posted 17/12/2016 at 23:18:13
Scott (#78). Bitter and dispirited – yep, that's exactly how he left me feeling.
Colin Metcalfe
82 Posted 17/12/2016 at 23:28:39
He lost the plot after the first season. I liked his philosophy about playing from the back and keeping possession but he never had a Plan B and sometimes you need that in the Premier League.

What I would like to say in his defense is: he awakened the club from a long coma that came to be in last few years of Moyes; he had ambition for the club to put it back where it belongs and I have to say some of the football in that first season was just sublime!!!

And I remember chatting to a local in a bar in Singapore and he came out and said Everton were the most exiting team to watch that season!!!

Shame it didn't work out; he had the right idea but did not have the tools to do the job.

Andy Meighan
83 Posted 18/12/2016 at 00:31:26
George McKane, another great post
Colin Metcalfe
84 Posted 18/12/2016 at 01:41:35
Paul (#80) not even close, I can name two off the top of my head - Walter Smith and Gordon Lee!!
Mike Dolan
85 Posted 18/12/2016 at 03:21:09
I thought Roberto was a breath of fresh air when he first came in but in hindsight he was a disaster, making an always competitive club a sort of Barcelona for people who don't get the 'total' in total football.

I was shocked and dumbfounded when Koeman came in and declared Everton only 70% fit to even start the season. That is my lasting impression of Roberto.

Did we ever stand a chance with him, no matter who we signed? I think not. He just makes it up as he goes along.

Trevor Lynes
86 Posted 18/12/2016 at 07:13:33
He certainly was NOT the worst manager we have ever had.I can well remember Goodison with 13,000 fans during the really bad times when Catterick played.

Before we were relegated a 2nd division Liverpool side took us for a 4 nil drubbing at Goodison in the F.A cup.Notts County hit us for 4 at Goodison never mind Liverpool.

Every manager of recent decades has come in for slagging.We have stuttered on the brink of relegation a few too many times.I hope that they do not go down during the remainder of my life time.

Koeman is untested really so lets just wait and see.

Jeff Armstrong
87 Posted 18/12/2016 at 09:06:24
Gordon Lee would have got us in the Champions League with today's money... twice.
Matthew Williams
88 Posted 18/12/2016 at 11:35:38
No, Paul (#80), Mike Walker has the trophy as the worst manager we ever had.
Paul Conway
89 Posted 18/12/2016 at 11:59:25
His latest comments on John Stones where he says 'Stones is ahead of where he should be', is typical Martinez bullshit bigging up of players. Remember the Cleverley comments? Saying he was the best free transfer.

IMO, John Stones will be the 'stone' that will bury Guardiola!

Ian Hollingworth
90 Posted 18/12/2016 at 12:31:08
Very nice.

Sadly, I cannot erode my miserable memories of you.

Paul Kelly
91 Posted 18/12/2016 at 14:19:38
As bad as Walker, imo, here's some uttering from his latest drivel (Mail Online):

"'The last seven weeks were very difficult." try being a fan Bob.

"'The disappointment was that I didn't get to finish a long-term project." No disappointment from me,

"'Everything that could go wrong, did go wrong." No shit Sherlock,

"'You don't survive seven years in the Premier League if you don't know how to coach defensive play." WHAT!!! ... Followed by:

"'Do I enjoy defending? Of course, because it gives you the platform to attack."

Don't know whether to laugh or cry...

Brent Stephens
92 Posted 18/12/2016 at 18:15:24
'Stones is ahead of where he should be'.

On the bench today, wasn't he? That's ahead of the U23s?

Jack Convery
93 Posted 18/12/2016 at 18:51:27
I expect him to be at Goodison Park on Monday night. That's why he's opened his mouth to try and get a good reception – deluded. There's no other word for this con artist.

Wigan could be in Div 1 next season – he likes to leave a legacy doesn't he – demolishes foundations and reaps rewards. That's football all over.

Paul Hewitt
94 Posted 18/12/2016 at 19:17:35
Walker took over a crap team with little money. Martinez took over a top six team, and was given quite a bit of money, and buggered it up.
Ian Riley
95 Posted 18/12/2016 at 19:51:26
Wigan were relegated and could not sustain Championship football. A real nice chap but what I was watching under his management was not going to be Premier League football for long. Building on the first season was the problem. His ideas was being implemented in year two and three.

Let's not forget Moyes put the building blocks in. A little luck we could have won a cup under Martinez. Hope it works with Belgium for him. It was time to move on. Oh yes, with the 㾶 million cheque as well.

Nicholas Ryan
96 Posted 18/12/2016 at 21:54:31
He tried, he failed. It really is as simple as that.
Paul Mackie
97 Posted 19/12/2016 at 10:51:53
He seems a nice enough guy but he was woefully out of his depth as a Premier League manager. We had our best ever Premier League points total under him, that I'll never forget, but that's when the team was still fit from Moyes' training and knew how to defend.

I think he'll make a good international manager though. His players will come to him with good fitness levels from their respective club teams and there's only so much damage you can do to a player when you see them a few weeks a year.

At times under him we were literally unplayable, for example when we demolished Arsenal 3-0. We just always struggled to beat the bus parking teams. Cup football suits him much better.

Lenny Kingman
98 Posted 19/12/2016 at 12:08:33
Treasure is what he took away. What he left behind was something else entirely.
Dave Abrahams
99 Posted 19/12/2016 at 15:00:27
Trevor (86) are you sure Everton played with crowds of 13,000 when Catterick played? Notts County hit us for five, if I'm correct, Jimmy Jackson scored four of them playing alongside Tommy Lawton.

Cliff Britton was manager in both games, not a bad manager at all, but a manager who was given very little to spend.

In the running for the worst manager we have ever had is Howard Kendall Mk III; however, he is also in the running for the best manager we have ever had.

John Raftery
100 Posted 19/12/2016 at 15:39:47
The gate when Notts County beat us 5-1 at Goodison on 20th October 1951 was 49,604. As far as I know, there were no 13,000 crowds at Goodison in the late forties and early fifties. Catterick's last game for the club was on 27th August 1951 at Brentford.

We did play in front of very low crowds away from home during our three seasons in Division Two, the lowest being at Notts County on 5th March 1953 when the gate was 7,529. The lowest at Goodison was 10,829 versus Fulham also in March 1953.

Patrick Murphy
101 Posted 19/12/2016 at 16:10:07
According to my own records, Everton's lowest attendance at Goodison, between the resumption of league football following WW2 and May 1960, was for a second division game with Fulham which ended in a 3-3 draw, in March 1953, when 10,829 viewed the match, it was the game which immediately followed Everton's dramatic defeat in the FA Cup Semi-Final with Bolton.

Everton's lowest attendance for a top-flight game during that period was 15,561 for a game against Huddersfield Town in March 1955, which Everton won 4-0.

Everton's average home attendance ranged from circa 32,000 to 46,000 for that period in history.

I can't find a game against Notts County at Goodison where the attendance was less than 32,000 during that period but sub 20,000 gates in the 1980s did occur twice. The only Notts County game at Goodison that I haven't got an attendance figure for is a friendly game in January 1951 when Everton won 3-2.

Lenny Kingman
102 Posted 20/12/2016 at 19:11:12
Low attendances have not been a notable feature in the mostly glorious history of EFC. Sometimes, however, an astonishing low attendance can be a catalyst for a turnaround.

New Year time 1983 when 13,000 hardy souls showed for one of the most boring games in the blues history. A 0-0 stalemate against Coventry City. "Kendall Out!" was the cry from the Gwladys street.

Somehow out of the darkness of that day, more so than the Oxford league cup tie of legend, the Renaissance of the club was quite extraordinary and the trophies piled up in the next few years.

Due to unforeseen circumstances involving our unruly, vicious neighbours, things took another turn and EFC have been trying to regain their status ever since.

Last evening a team of mercenaries in red got away with the points but one day it will turn. Though last night's game doesn't indicate a reversal of fortune any time soon, it could happen sooner than we all may think. It's coming...

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 20/12/2016 at 19:30:35
It should be noted that the Fulham game was played on a Wednesday afternoon, which had a bearing on the attendance. The Fulham centre forward was Bedford Jezzard, he scored two of Fulham's goals.

The friendly against Notts County, which Patrick refers to, included a very unusual penalty for Everton. One player went up to take the penalty, he just rolled if forward a couple of feet and another player ran forward and slammed it into the net. One of the players was Harry Potts, can't recall the other player, possibly Eddie Wainwright.

Paul Conway
104 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:36:36
Robert, my memories of you are also like treasure... Buried!

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