The Everton manager was speaking to NOS in the Netherlands after Monday evening's defeat in the Merseyside derby, a loss he attributed to a shortage of luck and injuries to James McCarthy and Maarten Stekelenburg.
Koeman has stressed before that changing the Blues' fortunes wouldn't happen overnight but there is concern among supporters that the Dutchman has been unable to advance the team much further than where his predecessor left off when he was sacked in May.
Everton finished 11th in each of Roberto Martinez's last two seasons at Goodison Park and they go into Christmas, just one place higher than at the same stage a year ago.
”We know that due to the people we have inside the club that this is a project which is for the long term and it does not mean that you are fighting for trophies withing 6 months of arriving at a new club," Koeman said.
”We need to invest not only in January but also in the next summer transfer window. I believe that the club are aware of this and that I will receive the time. But it is not easy to get time within football these days.”
Full quotes at Football Oranje
Reader Comments (103)
Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer
1 Posted 20/12/2016 at 22:57:47
2 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:01:52
3 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:28:57
Even Martinez made an instant impact.
All you have done so far is spout off inappropriately or without substance, make excuses and show the most amazing inflexibility, lack of tactical appreciation or any emerging masterplan.
Despite the talent, resources and potential at your disposal, this is THE worst Everton team I have seen in 45 years as a match-going supporter.
As a consequence of no improvement whatsoever, your excuses have now run out. Time for your actions to speak louder than your words.
So do something. Give us a sign, Show some nous. Play to our strengths. Stop worrying about the opposition and try to make them worry about us.
And for Christ's sake, start by giving Lukaku some support up front.
So far, we have all got more of a clue than you have without the benefit of being paid (£6m a year), for having it!
4 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:34:45
5 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:35:22
Ronald was doing a great job at Southampton where I would assume he wishes he was still there.
Bringing in Williams and the Dutch skipper has backfired. Gana seems to be proving okay. Morshiri will stand by his man and hope that he can get one or two more in in January that will make a difference.
Merry Blue Christmas.
6 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:47:43
Are you kidding. He's been Man of the Match for nearly every game he's played for us.
7 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:48:48
We should have known it wouldn't be instant and although I've watched some poor performamces this season; I've also watched some decent ones too but with what is the mainstay of last season's poor team/squad still in place it WILL take a bit of time. The other shower gave their manager time and look at where they are now.
As others have said we need at the very least the next two windows and then see where we are. I'd hope for at least three in the January window, though I'd like more, and at least three in the summer window. That would give us ten new players, though Bolasie won't be available.
The time to start screaming, initially, is if we don't get those three in January. I'd personally want four. A centre back, two midfielders and a striker to play a two up front formation. I'd be very very surprised if we got those four in January though. This is Everton after all.
It's obvious to all of us we don't have the strength, either physical or mental, to compete and play how we all want us to and the only way to get that, in my opinion for what it's worth, is to replace those that just aren't up to the job.
8 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:49:34
9 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:51:50
- he has a top goalkeeper, rather than one he selected that isn't good enough for the top flight
- he has spent £20 million + on one or more players who actually improve the team
- he has realised that it's not a good idea to extend the contracts of great servants whose time has gone
- we get more than 47 points this season, more than 60 next season, and are on course for more than 65 in two years time
- he stops saying things that are plain daft
- he brings the good and the best out of Ross Barkley.
10 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:57:30
11 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:59:37
Only Barkley can bring the best out of Barkley. It's not Koemam's fault Ross continually gives the ball away as he did last night. It's not Koeman's fault Barkley doesn't tackle enough (don't count last night's atrocious one on Henderson). It's also not Koeman's fault Barkley doesn't compete for headers.
Unfortunately for us, Ross is really good at a couple of aspects of the game, but poor in other, more important ones. Believe me, it hurts to say that but Ross is never going to be the player we all dream of him being, IMHO.
12 Posted 21/12/2016 at 00:05:11
For example, on some of Koeman's tactical choices, or some of his statements to the media. His tactics seem a puzzle to many of us. But we're still patient.
And you are in the TW club as soon as you make a TW comment.
13 Posted 21/12/2016 at 00:36:29
Brian (#11) I just hope you're wrong, but I don't know you are.
14 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:06:56
Yes, he's made mistakes but so do all managers. The one criticism I would make is that he's not giving more of the young players more game time. Maybe that will change as the established players continue to under perform.
Next season, I would hope to see the basis of a squad that can really compete. If we're still struggling this time next year then that's the time to judge.
Until then, we have to be realistic and accept things aren't going to be turned around overnight.
15 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:17:45
Unfortunately, nothing else has.
16 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:21:24
He took about 3/4 matches to get his buys/loans working with the established players, but what an impact when he did. My take on his demise was the arrogance of the man: he thought he'd become invincible after his 1st season, and overstaying his 'working' Brazillian holiday when he should have been preparing HIS team for the new season was a portent of the bad to come. His lone touchline, arms crossed stance, distancing himself from his management team displyed a disrespect for any advice and he just let the whole club turn lazy and rudderless.
Now we've had about 7 months of Koeman, and I really don't see any improvement on the worst Moyes/Martinez times. There's been no instant 'new boss' syndrome, which I wouldn't worry about if I could see ideas being tried, or a gradual improvement in a certain area (i.e. the defence with Moyes or attack like Martinez achieved). He makes senseless substitutions and favours older, slower players rather than giving youth a chance; bizarrely, he brings a young player on in his most important game so far, and plays him in a position, unfamiliar to the lad, and no real help to the team!
The Norwich match, possibly the competition in we had most chance of actually winning a trophy, was sabotaged by his stupid decision to change a winning side. It's been a shambles ever since, and leaving Barkley on for the whole of derby match was the last straw: he is not good enough for our club, if we are to progress, and the longer he stays, the more damage will be inflicted on our future
17 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:32:37
I know he'll get time, unfortunately in my view, so let's see some kind of improvement eh Ron? Anything... something!
18 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:03:56
He is more arrogant than Martinez and, unbelievably, picks worse teams than him. For instance, look at how he had Bolasie playing on the left in some games when he's about as one-footed as you can get.
We deserved NOTHING on Monday. Only Koeman is giving the order to not have one person stay up, over the halfway line, against that 'shower', after only 50 minutes, and at 0-0. What other team do you see being that negative?
And the fact that Koeman was happy with that performance is nothing short of terrifying.
19 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:18:58
He has killed the confidence of our two most talented players (Barkley & Deulofeu) yes they haven't been great but they won't improve on the bench ,
He needs to decide who are his best 11 players to fit into his 4-2-3-1 formation are and stick with them for 6 to 8 games and build some confidence up.
Lots of work needed in January. A new No 8 and No 10 has to be addressed
20 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:20:11
21 Posted 21/12/2016 at 04:32:51
We got the wrong man from the South Coast; we should have gone for Eddie Howe – his teams play football on the floor, they try to go and attack. He is used to working with limited funds, he gets the club, and I doubt we would have been termed a 'project'!
22 Posted 21/12/2016 at 05:47:13
1. Moyes inherited a poor relegation-threatened side and improved them and made them consistent, organised and hard to beat.
2. Martinez inherited a fairly consistent top 6 side at their peak and was given more funds in a year than Moyes had had on average during his 11 years.
3. Nobody can deny Martinez was way out of his depth as a Premier League manager and created disorganisation, disharmony and a lack of professionalism and quality in the squad. (Niasse, McGeady, Alcaraz anyone?)
4. Koeman has inherited that chaotic mess and, to add insult to injury, the best players in the squad are all now too old to be of much use.
Evertonians are their own worst enemy. When the manager and the squad need our support, we all cry like little girls and moan, we want every player and the manager out of the club as if there is some magic formula to compete with sides who have £500m squads,
23 Posted 21/12/2016 at 06:05:34
Come on people... keep it real!
24 Posted 21/12/2016 at 06:12:53
If he bucks the trend of Moyes plateauing or Martinez plummeting after initial dazzle, we just might be a whole lot happier in three years time, but it'll take a lot of that time and a fair amount of spending to do it after the Blue Bill decades.
25 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:05:02
True or not, a good manager and man-motivator keeps such thoughts to himself, shared only with his closest working colleagues on the coaching staff and with the board of directors. You are demoralising not only the players, but the fan base, who see nothing to suggest you're even trying to get the best from the current squad, something a man of your supposed reputation should at least be capable of after six months in the job.
In short, it's my belief that Koeman is not the man to take Everton forward. He's further destabilising an already fragile dressing room which after Martinez's departure probably were looking for the right man to rekindle their spark and get them playing good football again with good tactics and game plan.
Instead, we're going backwards, almost in free fall since the Norwich game, and Koeman seems blind to what everyone else can see. Lukaku is not a lone striker and needs the support of a second striker, which many thought you might notice in that last 20 minutes against Man Utd. Yes, you've played Valencia, but not as a second striker, precisely the way he was treated at West Ham. Do you never learn, Ronald?
26 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:14:24
At the minute, we look like we've gone backwards. Let's hope this coming transfer window can provide the bodies to give us some forward momentum.
27 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:14:55
Koeman has to cull this squad and build from scratch. There is only room for a handful of the current crop. In my opinion, they can all go... Baines Barry etc.
28 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:31:04
He best bet of how well Koman is doing is look at others and compare. A new manager and new players only take you so far. Look at the two Manchester clubs, one is hardly pulling up trees, with a £100m midfielder and the other has arguably the best manager in the world and can only make the prem top four. So why do we expect our manager, who by all accounts is worse and has a worse squad to be out performing others who are 'better' with 'better' squads. Sure on a one off, (eg, Arsenal) we can beat anyone. But that's hardly a recipe for success.
What about last season's runaway winners? Should they get a new manager? He is doing worse than us with a Champion-winning squad and improvements in players.
The reality is there is now magic success formula, so the only option we have is to roll the dice and hope. I would give Koman 3 years and see where we are. If it's not working then roll again.
29 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:50:00
The team set up in my opinion hasn't changed at all, it's as if Koeman has this game plan which he plays week in week out thinking it's somehow going to suddenly come to life which it clearly isn't . Of the signings he has made I think Gana is a cracker and Bolasie an improvement on what we have. Steklenvurg is a good keeper but rash in his judgement. Williams is a good defender but getting old for the game. I think the man shows very little passion for the club, it's history and fans. He looks devoid of ideas and I don't see him reaching two years but it will cost us a fortune to get shut.
31 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:02:12
The £100 million Moshiri has pledged to spend on squad strengthening needs to be doubled as Barkley, Lukaku, Barry, Cleverley, Baines, Lennon, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Robles and Steklenburg all need to be shown the door.
32 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:07:36
I think David Unsworth will be a good manager for us in the next few years; he is doing very well with the Under-23s.
33 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:16:03
Baines, Barry & now it looks like Lukaku ain't going anywhere fast. (New contracts or in the offing.) Cleverley is useless; Jags though a good servant is past his best. Robles I'd like to have a decent run of games. Funes Mori I think is half decent and could get better with time.
However, like most of us, Koeman doesn't appear to have any Plan B. Every game he persists in playing Lukaku up front on his own. I have got to the stage where I'm screaming at his every first touch.
Fair play his last touch can be deadly but he rarely gets the service. He needs someone else up front allowing him more space and, when his first touch goes astray, at least there's a blue shirt handy to pick it up.
34 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:27:14
Either win us some derbies or do one. That's all I ask.
35 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:34:18
This cheese head is the most disruptive, discouraging, lead-footed manager in the public arena I can recall at any Premier League club. Never mind his "tactics", which wouldn't work with Chelsea's current squad.
Many of you will get your wishes the special kind of nasty look on Koeman's face when Ross played that admittedly bad ball in the derby, virtually guarantees it.
Then you can all cheer his replacement, Ardan Pressonski from the Siberian run-like-fuck league signed for £25 million in January, ready to play September after reconstructive knee surgery.
36 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:41:31
1: Survival. The first priority of any manager and team is that we remain in the top flight of English football. David Moyes and his teams almost guaranteed this, Martinez and his team almost took us down and Koeman and his team seem to have a foot in both camps. I am prepared to give Koeman time on this providing he stays in and around the top half of the table.
2: Good football. By this I mean stuff that is pleasing to the eye, gets you off your seat, gets results and makes you feel like the team are really going out there and fighting for you. Moyes could do it now and again, but everything became all too predictable, Martinez had some technically outstanding moments but tica-taca'd us to death and Koeman's team hasn't really shown me anything yet, bar some of Gana's sparkling performances that has got me thinking 'that's it – that's what I'm talking about'.
3: Silverware. Ultimately that's the goal, a bit of metal to illustrate that amongst your peers you are the best. Moyes came close, and Martinez for all his faults got us to two Cup semi's with our current squad, which in retrospect seems miraculous. Koeman at present seems a million miles away but things can change quickly in football.
So – I will give Koeman time BUT he has to do his bit.
His priority this season is to keep us well away from the trap door – which with the squad he has got should not be a problem. If there is serious danger of us going down he walks – end of.
He needs to show he can either improve the players we've got or attract players that can improve the team over the next three windows maximum, improve results and put on football we all want to watch. If he can't do that significantly in the next 13 months he'll never do it – and again can walk.
I won't put a time limit on silverware but would like to see something, and expect something, in the next five years if he gets the backing to get point No 2 right. Any longer than that and we'll probably be back to the Moyes situation and all be ready for a change.
I think that's where I stand and my hierarchy of needs. I will give Koeman time but there are not unreasonable conditions that have to be met.
38 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:51:51
Moshiris 'project' is to sort the whole bloody lot out and create a properly run, successful club, properly financed, commercially professional, fit for purpose in the 21st century.
From where we are starting, a massive task.
Arguably the two most important, and certainly the most visible are the squad and the ground, since much of the success of the club are dependent on these.
He has chosen Koeman to look after the playing side, has promised to support him, both financially and with time. This leaves Moshiri the time and space to deal with the other stuff, and hopefully the indications are he is making progress, but time will tell. I suspect that both are somewhat surprised at the actual state of this squad as opposed to the rosy perception of some both inside the club and among the support.
Time will also tell whether Koeman will be successful but it is a nonsense and also pretty dumb to be calling for his head, since Moshiri will back his choice and give him time, regardless of the more stridently certain among the support.
January, will hopefully give us some indication of his support and also the effectiveness of the expensively assembled recruitment team, in the form of several new players who are physically and mentally capable of competing with the best squads in our league. But again time will tell.
Merry Christmas to all Blues. God bless us every one.
39 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:23:56
But different managers work in different ways, obviously after a home derby defeat us fans will be upset and lash out at everybody. But most Evertonians realize that you have to give a new manager 3 seasons to give him a fair crack of the whip, and I am sure Moshiri will give him the time and the money to succeed. I always think Everton managers come under more scrutiny if the other lot are doing well which they are at the moment.
So I think as fans all we can do is back the manager and the players. I always hear the phrase "he has lost the dressing room" trotted out during poor spells, but losing the fans is usually the death knell for managers. My only tip to Koeman is try to have a dialogue with the fans as, at times, you come across as uncaring and, if you get the fans onside, your job will become a little easier.
40 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:25:17
I feel a lot of the vitriol directed at Moyes was OTT. It had gotten stale, but some of the teams he put out on such a limited budget were excellent. To keep us up in the pauper era after selling Rooney and bringing in Bent was miraculous really.
Martinez – Good guy but messed up what was his big opportunity with a slavish attachment to philosophy driven football.
Koeman has to be given time. The team have been allowed to age for too many years. How many other teams still persevere with 34-year-old centre backs? 31-year-old left backs? Few, because that few percent you lose at the very top level is critical.
On top of that it is evident that mentally a number of our players- Barkley, Deulofeu et al are very low on confidence.
I am disappointed that Koeman hasn't really shown a blueprint for the future. I am concerned that he is here in body but not in spirit. I do feel that questions on his commitment are justified. This is a major rebuilding project though. He needs time.
41 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:28:53
On his appointment, most posters on TW were pleased and lots of us stated that if we finished top half in his first season, we would be happy. Back then, many of us were just happy to be rid of the bullshitter, and willing to have a season where the new guy bedded in, learned about his squad and set about building his team.
Well he has started to build his team, he is learning who he can count on, and we are less than halfway through the season and we are in the top half.
42 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:36:41
A lot will depend on who comes in January, as it's plainly obvious this squad is short of quality to challenge for a European spot.
43 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:53:43
You can't make a silk purse and all that! We are actually free falling right now. Our gutsy victory over the Arse was tinged with luck. Our draw with Spurs and Man City the same. Our first 5 games came against easy opposition. Victory against West Ham, the result between 2 teams in crises.
A game against Liverpool, which, we ran the bollox off ourselves with frantic passion, yet, without product, simply to upset their rhythm. Yet, as our energy levels fell the cream started to rise to the top and in the second half class willed out.
44 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:05:41
It's seems to me, Koeman has ditched the flair of Mirallas and Deulofeu in favour of Lennon and Valencia who will put a shift in but lack a bit of quality. I think he finally realised Barry's legs are too old for the engine room of central midfield.
With a midfield 5 consisting of McCarthy, Gana, Lennon, Valencia and Barkley, we are not going to be world beaters, we are going to see a lot of the kick-and-rush football we've seen in the last couple of games. Unfortunately, this seems like Koeman's only option at the moment because he can't rely on players like Mirallas and Deulofeu as they are far too inconsistent – as is Barkley as well – but he needs some attacking threat, of some form, playing behind Lukaku.
Koeman needs time to build his own squad and get the right blend of players to take us forward. Look at our squad on paper: is it really better than our league position suggests? Not in my opinion.
45 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:15:05
Gutted, we lost at home to Liverpool, but they are 2nd top for a reason and the real problem was that when we played well enough, first half, unlike their ultimate finish after their spell of better play, we just couldn't finish. An ongoing problem identified.
But panic stations? Yes, we've also lost/ drawn lost to teams we shouldn't but haven't we been showing tok much respect to opposition we really should turn over for years now? Koeman's fault that we've still got this ingrained fickle mentality? Moyes started that crap, I reckon!!
Still, on we go, new personnel needed but that was always the case.. and yet still we've beaten Arsenal, drawn against Man City, Man Utd and Spurs, all supposed title contenders, and suffered our only 'spanking' against a team who might spank anyone. Yet we're crap and Koeman's clueless?
Yes, we need a change in players, but even more than that we DON'T NEED the doomsayers, only full-on support! We're worth it and we'll get there!! COYTs!!!!!!!
46 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:28:39
47 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:36:40
Plans will already be in place to reshape our feeble attacking midfield, those plans will determine Koeman's fate, a successfull January window, and we could start scoring goals again and winning matches. It's crucial Koeman makes the right signing's, his future depends on it.
48 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:48:00
Recruitment has been at best average. Gana has been great, Bolasie a show-pony, Williams poor, Stekelenburg inconsistent and Valencia rarely played.
Tactics have been inflexible and sometimes baffling.
He does not seem to be able to motivate the team and support.
Whilst not in Roberto's nonsensical class, some of his statements have been worrying, to say the least.
Most importantly, going to the game has become boring.
Give Koeman 2 years but we must see gradual improvement in that time not just continued dross and then, 2 years down the line, we decide he is rubbish.
49 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:10:18
Bolasie (although erratic) was our best winger before he got injured. We just paid more than twice what he was worth... and his delivery into the box was often poor.
Stekelenburg was a free signing and an improvement on Howard and Robles. But we should be aiming for better.
Hopefully, Walsh and Koeman have identified much better targets for January and the summer. Fingers crossed.
50 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:19:26
Stekelenburg doesn't look any better than Robles and he's eight years older. Williams looks okay but when paired with Jags they both look old. He seriously needs a bigger, younger centre-back next to him. Bolasie turned out to be not so hot as we all hoped he would be. The only real success has been Gueye who we were told was identified by Walsh. I would also point out that Koeman almost forked out £30 million quid for Sissoko who has turned out to be a waste of space and money for Spurs. So he dodged a bullet on that one.
Then there is the style of play. Are we getting the best out of the players we have? I always think that managers have a tendency to follow the latest fad formation because some big name manager has had success with it. In this case 4-2-3-1. It worked for Mourinho at Chelsea. But look at the players he had
Koeman, just like Martinez before him, insists on playing this formation even though we have had no success with it whatsoever. Lukaku isn't a lone striker, Barkley isn't a #10 and any combination of Mirallas, Lennon, Deulofeu, Valencia and Bolasie are not working out as wide players. Although we can forget about Bolasie now. He'll be keeping Gibson company in the physio's room for the next year.
I harp on about 4-4-2 because I think it suits the players we have better. We can put Valencia, Mirallas, Deulofeu, or Calvert-Lewin up front with Rom. We can put McCarthy in front of the back four and Gueye can go forward more. Now this is just my opinion. I'm sure others have different ideas. But I do know that if Koeman doesn't want to look like he's being obstinate, he needs to make changes and soon. Hopefully we'll see some new faces in January. But they had better pay off or he'll find himself skating on increasingly thinning ice.
51 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:25:18
I would hardly put Kendall and Catterick in the same bracket under "Disciplinarian". Kendall was prone to taking (and allowing) the players to go out on the lash, not something that Catterick would have sanctioned. If you ever speak to Snodin, ask him about how his medical went!
52 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:35:57
I watched Everton at Stoke and Gary Stevens allowed Chamberlain to get past him and score, Kendall immediately dragged Stevens off for his mistake, and it worked; he made very few mistakes after that.
I've no idea if Koeman is made of the same stuff, but he comes with that reputation.
53 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:37:40
Rotating the same dross game after game is not the answer; not giving the academy players a fair chance while, at the same time, hanging onto and buying older players past their best is not a plan for the future.
54 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:40:13
We've played 2 title contenders in a week. We beat one and played well. We narrowly lost to the other and were outplayed by a better team. However, we were competing until injury enforced substitutions.
I don't think we're anywhere near good enough to expect to beat 2 top 4 teams in a week. Liverpool, like it or not, are contenders for the title. We aren't at their level right now. Their fitness and quality was way above ours. We outhustled them for 30 mins and that was about the best we could do. Without the injuries, maybe we could have held out for a draw... who knows.
Koeman needs time and we need patience. But I agree that we must see gradual improvement, and I think we have this week. A lot more effort, but not enough quality.
55 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:20:56
And we will waste time trying the impossible of building a team around him.
56 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:25:54
Firstly, I respect he might not have the personnel in place yet, but I can't see a pattern of play he is trying to employ.
Secondly, I worry about his empathy with players. I don't think he knows his players or squad, like the fans do.
Examples? Persevering with Cleverley. Liverpool on Wednesday night and we are struggling to retain any type of possession. He brings on a young striker and plays him right side. Our ability to retain the ball suffers even more.
57 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:45:10
Give him time, they say, but much more of the kick-and-rush we saw on Monday and he'll be on his way!
58 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:50:12
59 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:57:02
Pardew with Crystal Palace (another team Everton could not beat at home), with a similar dismal record, is in the firing line.
60 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:12:47
The job should have been given to Unsy. Alas; maybe when this project closes, he'll get his chance.
61 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:16:29
I agree with everything you write in that para Frank, so it definitely looks like Ronald's way, is my-way or the highway. Honestly don't have any problems if his main objective is getting the players to work their bollocks off every game, but until we see a style of play taking shape, then it's very worrying.
Tony (#58), maybe he's just speaking the truth, but if I was paying someone £6 Mill a year, I wouldn't be very happy with what I am seeing presently. Maybe the rumours are true, and he told a few of them he didn't really fancy them, but a good manager should always get the best out of what he's got in the changies.
I honestly think he might be missing Sammy Lee!
62 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:24:43
63 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:30:03
I could say many things but I will summarize it as follows:
Martinez = Koeman.
If we continue like this, we will descend to the Championship. And some fans want to give Koeman time...
64 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:33:50
I'd like to see the stats for the Premier League team with the least shots attempted on goal from 18 yards plus over the last 3 seasons, but the psyche of the squad is bewildering and you'd think all of them would be playing for their right to stay at the club. The attitude shown of late is They are over paid and don't give a feck.
The Red Shite are no great team but they tried and sadly this has been lacking for this team,most of this campaign to date. The bare minimum required is to put a shift in for 90 mins so, whilst we may not win many games, at least as supporters we can see the players are trying their best. Christmas Cheers, soon for EFC!
65 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:46:35
66 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:56:10
Koeman spoke about him being one of the most intelligent footballers that he has ever come across, so it would make real sense if this was part of the plan.
67 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:57:42
Those shouting for Koeman's head need to draw a parallel to Klopp's first 17 league games at the Red Shite. 17 games for a total of 32 points!! Koeman's first 17 games 23 points.
I am sure we all agree that Klopp inherited a far better collective of players than Mr Koman yet he still only collected 9 points more than the Blues. Give the man 18 months and then judge him.
68 Posted 21/12/2016 at 14:48:40
In the last two games, we have seen a pressing game from James McCarthy instead of the back pass and crab style passing for the first time since he has been at the club. If he keeps that up, we could have another Roy Keane.
He's got the temprement and the same tackling style as Keane and he is a leader. At 26, there's no doubt James could be a great midfielder under Ronald Koeman.
69 Posted 21/12/2016 at 15:41:39
In the summer, Koeman was hoping to bring in a better level of quality in than we did but, due to poor seasons beforehand, those types of player were simply not interested in us. So we got in the players that we did and Tbf they are an improvement but 4 new players alone weren't going to improve our team tenfold!
And I know the football a lot of the time isn't great but for the sake of trying to make us harder to beat and more competitive, the football as suffered but Koeman does need another 2 or 3 Windows to get in the players that will fit and suit his preferred system. Once he does I'm sure the football will improve as well as results.
Look at his Saints side, they had plenty of quality and balance in the team; they played some good stuff a lot of the time and did well. I'm sure that once he gets the players, in then we'll pick up.
I'm pretty certain that when he gets a few in in January that things will pick up also!
70 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:06:06
I think it's fair to say than Ron has changed our style of play to be a lot more defensive minded with us kicking long balls up to Rom who has little support to hold it up. This is definitely NOT playing to his strengths.
This time last year, we were sitting in 10th place with the same points (23) but scored 31 goals and conceded 24. This year we're in 9th place with only 21 goals scored and 21 conceded so not really that much better defensively but a lot worse of scoring goals. Interestingly Southampton have the 3rd best defensive record with only 16 goals conceded.
I don't like comparing us to the RS but in this incidence it's very significant. Last year, they were 9th with 20 for and 19 conceded. This year Klipity Klopp has them 2nd with 41 scored and 20 against – an amazing turnaround for a team that don't appear to have a high scoring top quality striker or at least don't play him. I wonder would he handle Lukaku like he has with Sturridge?
So the question is do you blame the manager, the players or both? To me it's both as you could go through nearly the whole team and say quite a lot of them have been poor in a lot of games. However, it's hard not to blame our attacking midfielders and wingers for the lack of goals and even chances.
Deulofeu, Mirallas, Lennon and Barkley have all been poor but is this partially because Koeman has affected how they play and their confidence? He has often talked about confidence being low but to me he has created that problem by his words and tactics.
You would imagine this is the part of the team where he will want to address first and so I hope he takes in at least 2 or 3 attack-minded players in January, though I expect we might have to wait until next season.
So whilst I hold those 4 at fault for our lack of goal chances I could also ask did the manager give them lots of rope to hang themselves as he tore away their confidence with our style of play? I don't like how he has us playing and it seems to have everyone on edge with no creativity whatsoever.
I think our squad is in need of major changes and so I am willing to give Koeman some time to turn things around but I would still expect to be in around the 7th position after Man Utd and Spurs. I am worried about Williams and how he seems to have regressed from last season. He looks slow and ponderous of late and not dominant enough in the air.
To end on a positive note, after a terrible November, I looked at the fixtures for Dec and thought we could end up with only 1 point, away to Watford. In fairness we've done well to draw with Man Utd, beat Arsenal and we almost held the top scoring team to a 0-0 draw.
I'm glad Vardy's out for the Leicester game but I still can't see us getting anything there as they tore Man City to shreds. We could start 2017 in the bottom half of the table but it's the transfer window where we will see if this new era is for real or just full of more excuses.
71 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:29:22
"Koeman does need another 2 or 3 Windows to get in the players that will fit and suit his preferred system. Once he does, I'm sure the football will improve as well as results."
This implies that the players he currently has do not fit into his preferred system. If this is the case, surely it would be better to play a system that does suit the players he already has rather than relentlessly try to fit them into a system that plainly doesn't suit them.
72 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:31:41
Play 3-5-2. Put Barry at the back on the left with Williams and Funes Mori alongside. Coleman and Baines as the wing-backs. Gueye, Barkley and Bolasie, when fit,as the three and Lukaku and Mirallas as the front two.
73 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:34:18
Nothing has changed other than we've gone from making senseless sideways and back passes to trying to stop the other team from playing. Okay, in away games I understand it... but at home?
Give him a chance yes, but start addressing some of the problems. I honestly thought we would be competitive and hard to beat under Koeman that would stand us in good stead to have a run in both cups.
I'd love it if he can turn it round but he hasn't shown that he is capable. But it's a long-term project. Looks like a very long-term project...
75 Posted 21/12/2016 at 17:50:40
Many of the young players who dominate the U23s league are ready to show their talent on the big stage and you haven;t got the balls to let them flourish and prove a point!!!
Stop hiding behind the chairman's money and prove your worth as a coach / manager by playing players who deserve a jersey on merit not by name or other criteria!
76 Posted 21/12/2016 at 18:37:46
Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. 21 trophy-less years is not going to be turned around via a few good performances.
My first match was the 1978 derby (Andy King) so I have seen the highs, and the lows.
77 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:21:10
Ronalds not had a proper transfer window and got the services of Steve Walsh when the window was barely ajar. Give him a break and at least 2 windows to try and bring in his team, then if in the summer of 2108 its still wrong, then moan.
I expect at least Schneiderlin to be added in January. Some people have the memory of a goldfish, this lad was top draw under Ronald and had the best pass/interception rate in the Premier League. Add him alongside Gana and were starting to get on the right track.
Building a team is a project and I thoroughly expect Ronald to get it done, with... patience.
78 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:43:01
Spent good money after one transfer window (never mind net value, he spent the money to improve the side). Found a couple of gems in Holgate and Davies who, apart from bench warming, don't get a look in.
The way he has sanctioned the new contracts and what he is supposed to be looking to buy in January, the project looks flawed to me
79 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:54:00
Really? He had a whole summer, and he didn't arrive from another country; he'd had 2 years in the Premier League.
And as for the likes of Aidy, and others who praise the way Southampton played, well they were playing that way for years before he arrived. Some Saints fans actually criticised his disregard for youth – sound familiar?
80 Posted 21/12/2016 at 20:02:36
He will know now who is good enough and who is not good enough. Full confidence that we will have a far better balanced squad after this window.
81 Posted 21/12/2016 at 20:15:54
Do people realistically believe bringing in 3 or 4 new players will change things?
The club is rotten all the way through to the core and dollar-chaser Koeman is at his 9th club in 16 years.
I just wonder where the next 20 points are going to come from, so we can at least avoid relegation.
83 Posted 21/12/2016 at 21:00:16
For me I think the following have to go if they want to play games: Cleverley, Mirallas, Deulofeu, Lennon, Kone, Niasse, Oviedo, Robles, Gibson and close to the edge would be Barkley, Galloway, Jagielka even Lukaku if we can get a good price.
84 Posted 21/12/2016 at 23:01:42
85 Posted 22/12/2016 at 01:13:43
And we will waste time trying the impossible of building a team around him."
Enough, please. Doesn't have the brain? Like many here, maybe you don't have, or choose not to have, the memory. Go back and watch Barkley's game performances and highlights. Watch the passes, the movement, the shots, the excellent goals. Watch him instantly control the ball, then turn leaving one, two, sometimes three players in his wake.
Watch this player with no football brain/intelligence looking around him for options as he runs. Watch his involvement in Naismith's hattrick vs Chelsea amongst many others, as an example of a player that can't read the game. He was doing this week-in, week-out.
This guy is the most talented and skilful player we've had in the Prem. era bar Rooney. He was noticed and widely talked of. He made the England set up, and performed well for England. It's not about whether he can be the player we want: he already was that player.
It's widely cited in here that Martinez "destroyed" and confused players, and let standards slip. Barkley was part of that team. Notice the similar effect in Deulofeu, Mirallas and others. What we're watching now is a player crippled by nerves and lack of self-belief. Talent never leaves a player. Only degradation by age removes the facility to employ it.
Remember the last England debacle. Called up and taken to the tournament, only to be completely snubbed by Wobble Jowls, the genius that gave us the Iceland performance. The only outfield player to not see a minute on the pitch. Several pundits at the time commented that this may be a big blow to Barkley.
Barkley needs help and he needs to be playing under a manager that gets him, that is prepared to play him to his strengths and help him to rediscover his form and self-belief. Koeman is doing the opposite, and he's doing it in public. He's a PR clown, he'll finish Barkley off, and he'll sell him if allowed. His reaction to Barkley's admittedly bad free kick in the derby was a disgrace for a so-called professional manager.
Every successful team of current and recent times has a player of Barkley's ilk. Koeman's "project" is to cover his arse with percentage players. I guarantee, if Barkley goes, he'll be back to the player he was. The better the manager, the more pronounced the effect will be. Koeman's "project" is to cover his arse with dull percentage players, and players that speak Dutch.
86 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:33:04
Give Koeman time; at least 2 Windows and maybe lighten up a little, as it's only a game.
87 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:35:12
How anybody can say that Koeman has destroyed the confidence of Barkley and Deulofeu is beyond me didn't people watch last season?
Anyway, Koeman does need time to sort out this chaotic mess and to get rid of the deadwood that Martinez left. Judge him in 18 months time...
88 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:51:27
He's got to get it right in January. So often the fans get blamed for lack of atmosphere at the ground. But, even with the fans behind them on Monday, they failed miserably. I just hope this season is better...
89 Posted 22/12/2016 at 14:58:01
90 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:13:40
I keep saying this but Koeman is playing a game which is alien to the strengths of his players, they are not a young, athletic team like his Southampton side and pretending they are suited to this game is football insanity.
91 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:15:37
Moyes had ten years of time and granted ,he didn't have the money available like Martinez and Koeman, but his stubborn system never changed and Everton became a one dimensional team of average workhorses.
Martinez got some immediate improvement although he was sunk by defensive woes eventually.
Koeman had some early results this season albeit somewhat luckily at times but since the Boro game they have become very poor, even allowing for the two wins against West ham and Arsenal, whereby they were outplayed in the first half hour.
Bolasie looked lively at times but didn't really give enough of what was expected and that was to support Lukaku only scoring one goal.
Offensively they have been poor and apart from Rom's 3 goals at woeful Sunderland and 2 against Watford his output has also been low so far although as I said the support hasn't been there.
The supporting cast of Lennon, Deulofeu & Valencia have not really been fancied by Koeman along with some other fringe players so the gaffer seems to sticking with what he has got even after the failures match after match. This causes me to think he may not have the motivation necessary to inspire the team to many wins the rest of the season.
92 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:19:48
93 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:05:46
He was waiting for all his young players to mature and knew what was coming, and it did come. Sadly it didn't last too long.
Not strictly comparable for sure, but it does take time, and Koeman is coming from a long way back compared to The Cat. He needs time and he will be given time.
94 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:09:53
If Koeman does sell him, his chances of succeeding as a manager, which are already seem slim, will become non-existent, such will be the bad feeling against him.
Yet if he keeps him, Koeman's chances of success will also be zero. The next manager will then be saddled with the same problem: get the best out of Barkley or be damned.
I'm struggling to remember in my life time a player who contributes so little, but is held in such high esteem. The nearest comparison I can come with is an ex-Arsenal player, Peter Marinello, dubbed the new George Best.
95 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:23:14
96 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:49:18
That may well be down to Martinez or Koeman. He may be a lad who doesn't need too much information on tactics... may be give him a free roll up front but he isn't now or ever going to be a midfield general.
97 Posted 22/12/2016 at 21:01:32
98 Posted 22/12/2016 at 23:41:50
(Check the Chang on the top image, peeps!)
99 Posted 23/12/2016 at 00:16:27
Could it be that Ronald just has his collar turned up?
100 Posted 23/12/2016 at 04:27:29
101 Posted 23/12/2016 at 16:33:33
I keep banging on about this but time is precious when Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are outside the Champions League. Once they all reach the top 4 again, time becomes slower for us. We will lose anyone of quality in that time and have to keep replacing them.
I only care about Everton as a brand I have no affection for Koeman or anyone else in a suit so to speak. We should have either dealt with the club more ambitiously this summer or not get Koeman in the first place because in my opinion this is one of the last clubs a very well paid group of coaches should expect time.
That's not Koeman's fault but Evertonians have had nothing but time for too many years and its time the club played like a club with no time.
102 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:17:35
103 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:40:08
Evertonians make me despair.
The man has only just come to the club, the majority of fans thought he was the best choice, the club now has ambition and a plan and some supporters want Koeman out.
Instead of all the pissing and moaning it would benefit us all to get behind the club, manager and players while we go through this transition.
FFS did the RS want Klopp out when they were up and down last season despite him inheriting £300m worth of players and being given more funding.
The same people that wanted to give Martinez more time despite 2½ years of dross want Koeman out when he has hardly got his feet under the table.
You couldn't make it up.
104 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:57:04
I have felt reassured since the Arsenal game and the derby, despite the awful ending, because I see that Koeman does care and that the players (or enough of them) will indeed back him.
Having made a bit of an arse of myself by wishing him out, I now risk the same in reverse by saying that I expect us to have a significantly improved second half to this season and a bright future.
Ricocheting around horribly, I know, but I still say that the Arsenal game was a big turning point. We will see...
105 Posted 23/12/2016 at 20:21:48
Hang on I'll fix this .
Oscar to China for £60m! This kind of thing will effect our ability to pick up good/fringe players from the overmoneyed classless gutterballers that find themselves temporarily above us.
106 Posted 23/12/2016 at 21:07:04
Perversely it will also allow those clubs who have money, to continue to dominate the game in Europe. Which Chinese clubs are going to buy the likes of Ossie, Gibson et al when they can have former TV icons such as Oscar etc?
Everton FC always seem to get their timing wrong; if Moshiri or somebody else had have arrived at Goodison, three to five years ago, we may have had a decent chance of climbing the slippery pole, but now we have to spend huge sums in order to maintain our place in the top ten and, like you say, the Chinese factor is another obstacle in the way of Everton's progress.
Top Five best paid players according to the Mail in July
1. Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid) £18m per year
2. Lionel Messi (Barcelona) £17m per year
3. Hulk (Shanghai SIPG) £17m per year
4. Neymar (Barcelona) £16.2m per year
5. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Manchester United) £13.6m per year
=5. Graziano Pelle (Shandong Luneng) £13.6m per year
107 Posted 24/12/2016 at 13:05:19
I do feel there is still a market out there and players will always want to come to the Premier League but our market has changed slightly with 2 of the English Champions league clubs being Leicester and Spurs, plus West Ham and Southampton having Europa campaigns over the last couple of years, we have become less attractive.
I also believe the run of form under Martinez, combined with players talking on international duty and new managers telling players their too big for Everton, needs putting to bed. If we get these 2 from Man United the hype needs to be scrapped because, looking at the way fans went colder on Bolasie Stekelenburg and Williams over 12 games, it seems better to save judgement; let's see how they do before raving just because they're fresh.
Whoever we sign is under major pressure to produce quickly and mistakes will happen. Let's get on their side and make them feel like Evertonians and have players talking about our fans knowing their football again.