Koeman reiterates that his Everton project needs time

Tuesday 20 December 2016  103 Comments  [Jump to last]
Ronald Koeman says that it will take time and investment in the squad before the club is able to compete for silverware.

The Everton manager was speaking to NOS in the Netherlands after Monday evening's defeat in the Merseyside derby, a loss he attributed to a shortage of luck and injuries to James McCarthy and Maarten Stekelenburg.

Koeman has stressed before that changing the Blues' fortunes wouldn't happen overnight but there is concern among supporters that the Dutchman has been unable to advance the team much further than where his predecessor left off when he was sacked in May.

Everton finished 11th in each of Roberto Martinez's last two seasons at Goodison Park and they go into Christmas, just one place higher than at the same stage a year ago.

”We know that due to the people we have inside the club that this is a project which is for the long term and it does not mean that you are fighting for trophies withing 6 months of arriving at a new club," Koeman said.

”We need to invest not only in January but also in the next summer transfer window. I believe that the club are aware of this and that I will receive the time. But it is not easy to get time within football these days.”

Full quotes at Football Oranje


Reader Comments (103)

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Joe Hurst
1 Posted 20/12/2016 at 22:57:47
Yep, I would plead a little too, after not much progression to show so far..
Colin Glassar
2 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:01:52
He will be given time. Hopefully, he will be given money to strengthen what is a woefully (mentally) weak squad.
David Booth
3 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:28:57
Give us a sign you know what you're doing then Koeman?

Even Martinez made an instant impact.

All you have done so far is spout off inappropriately or without substance, make excuses and show the most amazing inflexibility, lack of tactical appreciation or any emerging masterplan.

Despite the talent, resources and potential at your disposal, this is THE worst Everton team I have seen in 45 years as a match-going supporter.

As a consequence of no improvement whatsoever, your excuses have now run out. Time for your actions to speak louder than your words.

So do something. Give us a sign, Show some nous. Play to our strengths. Stop worrying about the opposition and try to make them worry about us.

And for Christ's sake, start by giving Lukaku some support up front.

So far, we have all got more of a clue than you have – without the benefit of being paid (£6m a year), for having it!

Mike T Jones
4 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:34:45
I keep saying judge him in 2 years time; but I'm not in the ToffeeWeb club; so shout me down.
Mark Andersson
5 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:35:22
So, this time last year, a lot of people where saying it's the best squad we have had in ages, it's just a crap manager, Martinez OUT.

Ronald was doing a great job at Southampton where I would assume he wishes he was still there.

Bringing in Williams and the Dutch skipper has backfired. Gana seems to be proving okay. Morshiri will stand by his man and hope that he can get one or two more in in January that will make a difference.

Merry Blue Christmas.

Armando Canaj
6 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:47:43
Mark (#5): "Gana seems to be doing okay"!!!!!!

Are you kidding. He's been Man of the Match for nearly every game he's played for us.

Brian Williams
7 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:48:48
Hang on lads let's not lose the plot here. £6m or £60m a year doesn't change the playing staff we have. Koeman's brought in 4 players who, to varying degrees, have been successes.

We should have known it wouldn't be instant and although I've watched some poor performamces this season; I've also watched some decent ones too but with what is the mainstay of last season's poor team/squad still in place it WILL take a bit of time. The other shower gave their manager time and look at where they are now.

As others have said we need at the very least the next two windows and then see where we are. I'd hope for at least three in the January window, though I'd like more, and at least three in the summer window. That would give us ten new players, though Bolasie won't be available.

The time to start screaming, initially, is if we don't get those three in January. I'd personally want four. A centre back, two midfielders and a striker to play a two up front formation. I'd be very very surprised if we got those four in January though. This is Everton after all.

It's obvious to all of us we don't have the strength, either physical or mental, to compete and play how we all want us to and the only way to get that, in my opinion for what it's worth, is to replace those that just aren't up to the job.

Mike T Jones
8 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:49:34
I think Gana is more than okay, Mark. Do you want Roberto or David or Walter back?
Clive Mitchell
9 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:51:50
Judge him in two years time? OK. I'll judge him a success in December 2018 if:

- he has a top goalkeeper, rather than one he selected that isn't good enough for the top flight
- he has spent £20 million + on one or more players who actually improve the team
- he has realised that it's not a good idea to extend the contracts of great servants whose time has gone
- we get more than 47 points this season, more than 60 next season, and are on course for more than 65 in two years time
- he stops saying things that are plain daft
- he brings the good and the best out of Ross Barkley.

Fair?

Mike T Jones
10 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:57:30
Clive, in two years it will be fair. Then you say you want to judge him in less than 6 months time? I'm confused.
Brian Williams
11 Posted 20/12/2016 at 23:59:37
No Clive, not fair. Tell you why.

Only Barkley can bring the best out of Barkley. It's not Koemam's fault Ross continually gives the ball away as he did last night. It's not Koeman's fault Barkley doesn't tackle enough (don't count last night's atrocious one on Henderson). It's also not Koeman's fault Barkley doesn't compete for headers.

Unfortunately for us, Ross is really good at a couple of aspects of the game, but poor in other, more important ones. Believe me, it hurts to say that but Ross is never going to be the player we all dream of him being, IMHO.

Stan Schofield
12 Posted 21/12/2016 at 00:05:11
Mike @4: A lot on TW are also saying this mate. But judgements or comments can also me made now.

For example, on some of Koeman's tactical choices, or some of his statements to the media. His tactics seem a puzzle to many of us. But we're still patient.

And you are in the TW club as soon as you make a TW comment.

Clive Mitchell
13 Posted 21/12/2016 at 00:36:29
Mike (#10) – fair point, but I guess you'd expect progress before we judge him in two years. I think Koeman would expect to get more points this season than RM did in each of his last two, and with the resources at his disposal to improve on that by a third of a point a game in his second season etc.

Brian (#11) – I just hope you're wrong, but I don't know you are.

Bill Watson
14 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:06:56
It's ludicrous to judge Koeman after less than half a season.

Yes, he's made mistakes but so do all managers. The one criticism I would make is that he's not giving more of the young players more game time. Maybe that will change as the established players continue to under perform.

Next season, I would hope to see the basis of a squad that can really compete. If we're still struggling this time next year then that's the time to judge.

Until then, we have to be realistic and accept things aren't going to be turned around overnight.

Mike Gaynes
15 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:17:45
Brian (#11), agree with all that... except last night Barkley really did compete well for headers, and even won some. His work rate has definitively improved the past two games.

Unfortunately, nothing else has.

Mick Davies
16 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:21:24
I think a lot of us have seen enough of managers to be able to see early on, whether they will be good enough to take Everton up another level. Moyes had an instant effect after taking over from Smith, and to be fair, he moved us on from serial relegation battles, to top 8 finishes. He grew stale and plateaued, turning us into predictable also rans, frightened of attacking against any side perceived to be superior, he waved goodbye, so in came Roberto.

He took about 3/4 matches to get his buys/loans working with the established players, but what an impact when he did. My take on his demise was the arrogance of the man: he thought he'd become invincible after his 1st season, and overstaying his 'working' Brazillian holiday when he should have been preparing HIS team for the new season was a portent of the bad to come. His lone touchline, arms crossed stance, distancing himself from his management team displyed a disrespect for any advice and he just let the whole club turn lazy and rudderless.

Now we've had about 7 months of Koeman, and I really don't see any improvement on the worst Moyes/Martinez times. There's been no instant 'new boss' syndrome, which I wouldn't worry about if I could see ideas being tried, or a gradual improvement in a certain area (i.e. the defence with Moyes or attack like Martinez achieved). He makes senseless substitutions and favours older, slower players rather than giving youth a chance; bizarrely, he brings a young player on in his most important game so far, and plays him in a position, unfamiliar to the lad, and no real help to the team!

The Norwich match, possibly the competition in we had most chance of actually winning a trophy, was sabotaged by his stupid decision to change a winning side. It's been a shambles ever since, and leaving Barkley on for the whole of derby match was the last straw: he is not good enough for our club, if we are to progress, and the longer he stays, the more damage will be inflicted on our future

James Watts
17 Posted 21/12/2016 at 01:32:37
If he spent as much time talking about the "project", begging for time and new players and playing golf as he did on the training field we'd probably be top already.

I know he'll get time, unfortunately in my view, so let's see some kind of improvement eh Ron? Anything... something!

Matthew Quinn
18 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:03:56
No 16 Mick, you are spot on.

He is more arrogant than Martinez and, unbelievably, picks worse teams than him. For instance, look at how he had Bolasie playing on the left in some games when he's about as one-footed as you can get.

We deserved NOTHING on Monday. Only Koeman is giving the order to not have one person stay up, over the halfway line, against that 'shower', after only 50 minutes, and at 0-0. What other team do you see being that negative?

And the fact that Koeman was happy with that performance is nothing short of terrifying.

Rob Tedford
19 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:18:58
I think Koeman needs at least another two windows to be judged but I'm not overly keen on what he's been doing so far.

He has killed the confidence of our two most talented players (Barkley & Deulofeu) yes they haven't been great but they won't improve on the bench ,

He needs to decide who are his best 11 players to fit into his 4-2-3-1 formation are and stick with them for 6 to 8 games and build some confidence up.

Lots of work needed in January. A new No 8 and No 10 has to be addressed

Gordon Crawford
20 Posted 21/12/2016 at 02:20:11
It's going to be an interesting transfer window. I just hope we sign the players that will take us forward as a club.
Ed Fitzgerald
21 Posted 21/12/2016 at 04:32:51
It's not progression but regression – same points as this time last season, far worse football to watch... and no, I don't want Martinez back – I just didn't want this whining Dutch mercenary who is under the illusion that money is bountiful at Everton and thinks we are 'a project' whatever that fucking means.

We got the wrong man from the South Coast; we should have gone for Eddie Howe – his teams play football on the floor, they try to go and attack. He is used to working with limited funds, he gets the club, and I doubt we would have been termed a 'project'!

Jay Harris
22 Posted 21/12/2016 at 05:47:13
It's about time we Evertonians faced a few home truths:

1. Moyes inherited a poor relegation-threatened side and improved them and made them consistent, organised and hard to beat.

2. Martinez inherited a fairly consistent top 6 side at their peak and was given more funds in a year than Moyes had had on average during his 11 years.

3. Nobody can deny Martinez was way out of his depth as a Premier League manager and created disorganisation, disharmony and a lack of professionalism and quality in the squad. (Niasse, McGeady, Alcaraz anyone?)

4. Koeman has inherited that chaotic mess and, to add insult to injury, the best players in the squad are all now too old to be of much use.

Evertonians are their own worst enemy. When the manager and the squad need our support, we all cry like little girls and moan, we want every player and the manager out of the club as if there is some magic formula to compete with sides who have £500m squads,

Steve Bingham
23 Posted 21/12/2016 at 06:05:34
Totally agree with Mike (#4), Koeman has to be given two years at least. It does perplex me sometimes when it would seem that some supporters by now think we should be already drubbing every team we play, week-in & week-out, with our new £800 million pound first team squad which of course were all falling over themselves to play for us when Moshiri took over.

Come on people... keep it real!

Don Alexander
24 Posted 21/12/2016 at 06:12:53
Jay Harris bringing a bit of common sense into the discussion. No, Koeman has not yet achieved comparative improvement to Moyes or Martinez in his first season but let's just see where we end up when this season's over.

If he bucks the trend of Moyes plateauing or Martinez plummeting after initial dazzle, we just might be a whole lot happier in three years time, but it'll take a lot of that time and a fair amount of spending to do it after the Blue Bill decades.

Brian Porter
25 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:05:02
We need action, not words, Koeman. For £6m a year I think we're entitled to more than your continued moaning and whinging about a squad you've now worked with for over 6 months. Basically, all your whining is doing at present is producing an even more demoralised and disjointed playing squad than it was under Martinez, and that's saying something! How do you expect the players yo respond to you, to play for you, to fight for you, when almost daily, you are telling the world they're not good enough and are basically in need of replacement?

True or not, a good manager and man-motivator keeps such thoughts to himself, shared only with his closest working colleagues on the coaching staff and with the board of directors. You are demoralising not only the players, but the fan base, who see nothing to suggest you're even trying to get the best from the current squad, something a man of your supposed reputation should at least be capable of after six months in the job.

In short, it's my belief that Koeman is not the man to take Everton forward. He's further destabilising an already fragile dressing room which after Martinez's departure probably were looking for the right man to rekindle their spark and get them playing good football again with good tactics and game plan.

Instead, we're going backwards, almost in free fall since the Norwich game, and Koeman seems blind to what everyone else can see. Lukaku is not a lone striker and needs the support of a second striker, which many thought you might notice in that last 20 minutes against Man Utd. Yes, you've played Valencia, but not as a second striker, precisely the way he was treated at West Ham. Do you never learn, Ronald?

Anthony Hughes
26 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:14:24
I'm prepared to give him time but a precursor to that is there should be some slow signs of gradual improvement over the next 18 months.

At the minute, we look like we've gone backwards. Let's hope this coming transfer window can provide the bodies to give us some forward momentum.

Anto Byrne
27 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:14:55
The spawny bastards get a late goal as per the menu. We have players who are past it and players not really good enough.

Koeman has to cull this squad and build from scratch. There is only room for a handful of the current crop. In my opinion, they can all go... Baines Barry etc.

Tim Locke
28 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:31:04
This is simply a case of expectations. Fans think new manager equals: winning team. History plays that tune, team in relegation, team gets new manager, team starts winning. However the new style, new manager does not last, just ask Sunderland fans as they go through manager after manager. So our expectations of instant and sustained change are wrong. Teams often improve short term 5ish games then drop back to previous standards.

He best bet of how well Koman is doing is look at others and compare. A new manager and new players only take you so far. Look at the two Manchester clubs, one is hardly pulling up trees, with a £100m midfielder and the other has arguably the best manager in the world and can only make the prem top four. So why do we expect our manager, who by all accounts is worse and has a worse squad to be out performing others who are 'better' with 'better' squads. Sure on a one off, (eg, Arsenal) we can beat anyone. But that's hardly a recipe for success.

What about last season's runaway winners? Should they get a new manager? He is doing worse than us with a Champion-winning squad and improvements in players.

The reality is there is now magic success formula, so the only option we have is to roll the dice and hope. I would give Koman 3 years and see where we are. If it's not working then roll again.

Mike McLoughlin
29 Posted 21/12/2016 at 07:50:00
Koeman will be given two years to show what he can do, but I agree with many who have posted here that he had not shown much improvement from last year. The team can't keep the ball. The team are devoid of finding space in attack. Their passing is at best pedestrian no quick owing football in this team. The defence is. slow to react as proven on many occasions. We have a midfield devoid of any creativity and a striker incapable of trapping a ball let alone hold it up to allow the team time to get out of defence and create an attacking threat.

The team set up in my opinion hasn't changed at all, it's as if Koeman has this game plan which he plays week in week out thinking it's somehow going to suddenly come to life which it clearly isn't . Of the signings he has made I think Gana is a cracker and Bolasie an improvement on what we have. Steklenvurg is a good keeper but rash in his judgement. Williams is a good defender but getting old for the game. I think the man shows very little passion for the club, it's history and fans. He looks devoid of ideas and I don't see him reaching two years but it will cost us a fortune to get shut.
Terry Hughes
31 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:02:12
I think our demise has been down to a mixture of Koeman not being as good a manager as we/, he, or the press thought he was... but also ultimately the buck has to stop with the players. Fundamental things like not even being fit enough or lack of effort will see our great club relegated if we're not careful.

The £100 million Moshiri has pledged to spend on squad strengthening needs to be doubled as Barkley, Lukaku, Barry, Cleverley, Baines, Lennon, Jagielka, Funes Mori, Robles and Steklenburg all need to be shown the door.

Gareth Williams
32 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:07:36
I would give Ronald Koeman till the end of the season. Things at the moment are no better than last season. When he came in, everyone was expecting great things but it's just not happening.

I think David Unsworth will be a good manager for us in the next few years; he is doing very well with the Under-23s.

Feargal Glennon
33 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:16:03
Terry (#31).

Baines, Barry & now it looks like Lukaku ain't going anywhere fast. (New contracts or in the offing.) Cleverley is useless; Jags though a good servant is past his best. Robles I'd like to have a decent run of games. Funes Mori I think is half decent and could get better with time.

However, like most of us, Koeman doesn't appear to have any Plan B. Every game he persists in playing Lukaku up front on his own. I have got to the stage where I'm screaming at his every first touch.

Fair play his last touch can be deadly but he rarely gets the service. He needs someone else up front allowing him more space and, when his first touch goes astray, at least there's a blue shirt handy to pick it up.

Jason Bowen
34 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:27:14
Either beat that shower of shit from across the park or you can sod off back to Holland to as far as I'm concerned. I cant be doing with any manager for us that continues to lose to them glory-hunting fakes in the pathetic shithouse way we've been putting up with for years.

Either win us some derbies or do one. That's all I ask.

Will Mabon
35 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:34:18
It would make a change to read a thread that didn't include the usual thrashing of Ross Barkley on the whipping post, as fall guy for all the ills of this club.

This cheese head is the most disruptive, discouraging, lead-footed manager in the public arena I can recall at any Premier League club. Never mind his "tactics", which wouldn't work with Chelsea's current squad.

Many of you will get your wishes – the special kind of nasty look on Koeman's face when Ross played that admittedly bad ball in the derby, virtually guarantees it.

Then you can all cheer his replacement, Ardan Pressonski from the Siberian run-like-fuck league – signed for £25 million in January, ready to play September after reconstructive knee surgery.

Mike Green
36 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:41:31
I guess the three things I'm looking for from an Everton manager / team are:

1: Survival. The first priority of any manager and team is that we remain in the top flight of English football. David Moyes and his teams almost guaranteed this, Martinez and his team almost took us down and Koeman and his team seem to have a foot in both camps. I am prepared to give Koeman time on this providing he stays in and around the top half of the table.

2: Good football. By this I mean stuff that is pleasing to the eye, gets you off your seat, gets results and makes you feel like the team are really going out there and fighting for you. Moyes could do it now and again, but everything became all too predictable, Martinez had some technically outstanding moments but tica-taca'd us to death and Koeman's team hasn't really shown me anything yet, bar some of Gana's sparkling performances that has got me thinking 'that's it – that's what I'm talking about'.

3: Silverware. Ultimately that's the goal, a bit of metal to illustrate that amongst your peers you are the best. Moyes came close, and Martinez for all his faults got us to two Cup semi's with our current squad, which in retrospect seems miraculous. Koeman at present seems a million miles away but things can change quickly in football.

So – I will give Koeman time BUT he has to do his bit.

His priority this season is to keep us well away from the trap door – which with the squad he has got should not be a problem. If there is serious danger of us going down he walks – end of.

He needs to show he can either improve the players we've got or attract players that can improve the team over the next three windows maximum, improve results and put on football we all want to watch. If he can't do that significantly in the next 13 months he'll never do it – and again can walk.

I won't put a time limit on silverware but would like to see something, and expect something, in the next five years if he gets the backing to get point No 2 right. Any longer than that and we'll probably be back to the Moyes situation and all be ready for a change.

I think that's where I stand and my hierarchy of needs. I will give Koeman time but there are not unreasonable conditions that have to be met.

Chris Williams
38 Posted 21/12/2016 at 08:51:51
We have been a poorly run, sick club. A secret squirrel club run for the benefit of a few low calibre individuals, with far from transparent financial arrangements. Any growth in income has been substantially taken from the coffers of TV companies, and our commercial arrangements are a disgrace. Our ground needs either a massive redevelopment or we need a new ground on the waterfront. Take your pick.

Moshiris 'project' is to sort the whole bloody lot out and create a properly run, successful club, properly financed, commercially professional, fit for purpose in the 21st century.

From where we are starting, a massive task.

Arguably the two most important, and certainly the most visible are the squad and the ground, since much of the success of the club are dependent on these.

He has chosen Koeman to look after the playing side, has promised to support him, both financially and with time. This leaves Moshiri the time and space to deal with the other stuff, and hopefully the indications are he is making progress, but time will tell. I suspect that both are somewhat surprised at the actual state of this squad as opposed to the rosy perception of some both inside the club and among the support.

Time will also tell whether Koeman will be successful but it is a nonsense and also pretty dumb to be calling for his head, since Moshiri will back his choice and give him time, regardless of the more stridently certain among the support.

January, will hopefully give us some indication of his support and also the effectiveness of the expensively assembled recruitment team, in the form of several new players who are physically and mentally capable of competing with the best squads in our league. But again time will tell.

Merry Christmas to all Blues. God bless us every one.

Brian Harrison
39 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:23:56
Every new manager needs time and where possible money to put his stamp on a club. I wanted Koeman based on what he had done at Southampton, I also liked his measured press conferences.. My only doubt since he came is he doesn't seem to be a great motivator or man manager, well at least looking in from the outside.

But different managers work in different ways, obviously after a home derby defeat us fans will be upset and lash out at everybody. But most Evertonians realize that you have to give a new manager 3 seasons to give him a fair crack of the whip, and I am sure Moshiri will give him the time and the money to succeed. I always think Everton managers come under more scrutiny if the other lot are doing well which they are at the moment.

So I think as fans all we can do is back the manager and the players. I always hear the phrase "he has lost the dressing room" trotted out during poor spells, but losing the fans is usually the death knell for managers. My only tip to Koeman is try to have a dialogue with the fans as, at times, you come across as uncaring and, if you get the fans onside, your job will become a little easier.

Mark Pierpoint
40 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:25:17
I think Jay (#22) is pretty much spot on in their view.

I feel a lot of the vitriol directed at Moyes was OTT. It had gotten stale, but some of the teams he put out on such a limited budget were excellent. To keep us up in the pauper era after selling Rooney and bringing in Bent was miraculous really.

Martinez – Good guy but messed up what was his big opportunity with a slavish attachment to philosophy driven football.

Koeman has to be given time. The team have been allowed to age for too many years. How many other teams still persevere with 34-year-old centre backs? 31-year-old left backs? Few, because that few percent you lose at the very top level is critical.

On top of that it is evident that mentally a number of our players- Barkley, Deulofeu et al are very low on confidence.

I am disappointed that Koeman hasn't really shown a blueprint for the future. I am concerned that he is here in body but not in spirit. I do feel that questions on his commitment are justified. This is a major rebuilding project though. He needs time.

Eddie Dunn
41 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:28:53
I know we are all very frustrated that Koeman hasn't been able to wave a magic wand and make us a good side. People are far too impatient.

On his appointment, most posters on TW were pleased and lots of us stated that if we finished top half in his first season, we would be happy. Back then, many of us were just happy to be rid of the bullshitter, and willing to have a season where the new guy bedded in, learned about his squad and set about building his team.

Well he has started to build his team, he is learning who he can count on, and we are less than halfway through the season and we are in the top half.

Barry Pearce
42 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:36:41
Koeman definitely needs more time; yes, things are not going better than a lot of people expected – me included, but it way too early to judge.

A lot will depend on who comes in January, as it's plainly obvious this squad is short of quality to challenge for a European spot.

Paul Conway
43 Posted 21/12/2016 at 09:53:43
It is beyond the realms of comprehension, how some Evertonians are calling for Koeman's head after such a short period, yet still remain stoic in their belief that Ross Barkley can still come good, given TIME – the very element they deny Koeman, after he inherited a crew of talentless deadwood.

You can't make a silk purse and all that! We are actually free falling right now. Our gutsy victory over the Arse was tinged with luck. Our draw with Spurs and Man City the same. Our first 5 games came against easy opposition. Victory against West Ham, the result between 2 teams in crises.

A game against Liverpool, which, we ran the bollox off ourselves with frantic passion, yet, without product, simply to upset their rhythm. Yet, as our energy levels fell the cream started to rise to the top and in the second half class willed out.

Mark Frere
44 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:05:41
I think we have seen an improvement in the last two games in terms of desire and aggression. We really pressed Arsenal in a manner they don't like. We made RS very uncomfortable for the the first 30 minutes on Monday; unfortunately their superior team finally got a foothold in midfield. We also missed the energy of McCarthy.

It's seems to me, Koeman has ditched the flair of Mirallas and Deulofeu in favour of Lennon and Valencia who will put a shift in but lack a bit of quality. I think he finally realised Barry's legs are too old for the engine room of central midfield.

With a midfield 5 consisting of McCarthy, Gana, Lennon, Valencia and Barkley, we are not going to be world beaters, we are going to see a lot of the kick-and-rush football we've seen in the last couple of games. Unfortunately, this seems like Koeman's only option at the moment because he can't rely on players like Mirallas and Deulofeu as they are far too inconsistent – as is Barkley as well – but he needs some attacking threat, of some form, playing behind Lukaku.

Koeman needs time to build his own squad and get the right blend of players to take us forward. Look at our squad on paper: is it really better than our league position suggests? Not in my opinion.

Lee Brownlie
45 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:15:05
All this needless... yes, totally needless (certainly at this point!) negativity on here hits me harder than how I really feel our team is really playing.

Gutted, we lost at home to Liverpool, but they are 2nd top for a reason and the real problem was that when we played well enough, first half, unlike their ultimate finish after their spell of better play, we just couldn't finish. An ongoing problem identified.

But panic stations? Yes, we've also lost/ drawn lost to teams we shouldn't but haven't we been showing tok much respect to opposition we really should turn over for years now? Koeman's fault that we've still got this ingrained fickle mentality? Moyes started that crap, I reckon!!

Still, on we go, new personnel needed but that was always the case.. and yet still we've beaten Arsenal, drawn against Man City, Man Utd and Spurs, all supposed title contenders, and suffered our only 'spanking' against a team who might spank anyone. Yet we're crap and Koeman's clueless?

Yes, we need a change in players, but even more than that we DON'T NEED the doomsayers, only full-on support! We're worth it and we'll get there!! COYTs!!!!!!!

Paul Tran
46 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:28:39
Looks to me like Koeman has made his decision on Deufelou and Mirallas. Fine by me. It does mean he's putting himself under pressure to recruit significantly in January, then bed these new players in quickly.
Trevor Peers
47 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:36:40
Of course Koeman will and must be given some time, a disciplinarian is exactly what is required after the last 2 years of chaos under Martinez. Kendall and Catterick were disciplinarian's the best managers always are.

Plans will already be in place to reshape our feeble attacking midfield, those plans will determine Koeman's fate, a successfull January window, and we could start scoring goals again and winning matches. It's crucial Koeman makes the right signing's, his future depends on it.

John Charles
48 Posted 21/12/2016 at 10:48:00
Whilst it is too early to make a definitive decision on Koeman and he should (and I believe will) be given time, surely we can comment on what we have seen so far.

Recruitment has been at best average. Gana has been great, Bolasie a show-pony, Williams poor, Stekelenburg inconsistent and Valencia rarely played.

Tactics have been inflexible and sometimes baffling.

He does not seem to be able to motivate the team and support.

Whilst not in Roberto's nonsensical class, some of his statements have been worrying, to say the least.

Most importantly, going to the game has become boring.

Give Koeman 2 years but we must see gradual improvement in that time not just continued dross and then, 2 years down the line, we decide he is rubbish.

Mark Frere
49 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:10:18
John (#48) – I agree recruitment has been very poor! I think you are being a bit harsh on some of the players though. Williams isn't a bad player... But he just looks a bit average to me. We need dominant figure at the back like a Dave Watson – Williams certainly isn't that... he isn't even in the same class as Lescott and Jagielka in their younger days. Neither is Funes Mori – he's a bit average like Williams.

Bolasie (although erratic) was our best winger before he got injured. We just paid more than twice what he was worth... and his delivery into the box was often poor.

Stekelenburg was a free signing and an improvement on Howard and Robles. But we should be aiming for better.

Hopefully, Walsh and Koeman have identified much better targets for January and the summer. Fingers crossed.

Frank Crewe
50 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:19:26
I must admit I'm less sure about Koeman now than I was when he was appointed. Bringing in players over 30 is always suspicious; they tend to look like stop-gaps, and he brought in two.

Stekelenburg doesn't look any better than Robles and he's eight years older. Williams looks okay but when paired with Jags they both look old. He seriously needs a bigger, younger centre-back next to him. Bolasie turned out to be not so hot as we all hoped he would be. The only real success has been Gueye who we were told was identified by Walsh. I would also point out that Koeman almost forked out £30 million quid for Sissoko who has turned out to be a waste of space and money for Spurs. So he dodged a bullet on that one.

Then there is the style of play. Are we getting the best out of the players we have? I always think that managers have a tendency to follow the latest fad formation because some big name manager has had success with it. In this case 4-2-3-1. It worked for Mourinho at Chelsea. But look at the players he had

Koeman, just like Martinez before him, insists on playing this formation even though we have had no success with it whatsoever. Lukaku isn't a lone striker, Barkley isn't a #10 and any combination of Mirallas, Lennon, Deulofeu, Valencia and Bolasie are not working out as wide players. Although we can forget about Bolasie now. He'll be keeping Gibson company in the physio's room for the next year.

I harp on about 4-4-2 because I think it suits the players we have better. We can put Valencia, Mirallas, Deulofeu, or Calvert-Lewin up front with Rom. We can put McCarthy in front of the back four and Gueye can go forward more. Now this is just my opinion. I'm sure others have different ideas. But I do know that if Koeman doesn't want to look like he's being obstinate, he needs to make changes and soon. Hopefully we'll see some new faces in January. But they had better pay off or he'll find himself skating on increasingly thinning ice.

Ray Roche
51 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:25:18
Trevor Peers (#47)

I would hardly put Kendall and Catterick in the same bracket under "Disciplinarian". Kendall was prone to taking (and allowing) the players to go out on the lash, not something that Catterick would have sanctioned. If you ever speak to Snodin, ask him about how his medical went!

Trevor Peers
52 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:35:57
Ray you're probably right, Kendall was less stern than Catterick, but he was ruthless.

I watched Everton at Stoke and Gary Stevens allowed Chamberlain to get past him and score, Kendall immediately dragged Stevens off for his mistake, and it worked; he made very few mistakes after that.

I've no idea if Koeman is made of the same stuff, but he comes with that reputation.

Mike Allen
53 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:37:40
Yes, of course, these things take time; players and fans alike have to buy into what the manager is trying to do. However, after a reasonable start, when things started to go wrong, the manager does not give us any evidence or confidence that he has the credentials to turn this club around.

Rotating the same dross game after game is not the answer; not giving the academy players a fair chance while, at the same time, hanging onto and buying older players past their best is not a plan for the future.

Chris Gould
54 Posted 21/12/2016 at 11:40:13
I think we need to try and put the Liverpool game into perspective.

We've played 2 title contenders in a week. We beat one and played well. We narrowly lost to the other and were outplayed by a better team. However, we were competing until injury enforced substitutions.

I don't think we're anywhere near good enough to expect to beat 2 top 4 teams in a week. Liverpool, like it or not, are contenders for the title. We aren't at their level right now. Their fitness and quality was way above ours. We outhustled them for 30 mins and that was about the best we could do. Without the injuries, maybe we could have held out for a draw... who knows.

Koeman needs time and we need patience. But I agree that we must see gradual improvement, and I think we have this week. A lot more effort, but not enough quality.

Pat Waine
55 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:20:56
Forget about Barkley – he is not going to be a player. The guy has skills but will never fit into a team that will win anything worthwhile. He doesn't have the brain, end of story.

And we will waste time trying the impossible of building a team around him.

Mat McConville
56 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:25:54
My issue is twofold.

Firstly, I respect he might not have the personnel in place yet, but I can't see a pattern of play he is trying to employ.

Secondly, I worry about his empathy with players. I don't think he knows his players or squad, like the fans do.

Examples? Persevering with Cleverley. Liverpool on Wednesday night and we are struggling to retain any type of possession. He brings on a young striker and plays him right side. Our ability to retain the ball suffers even more.

Phil Walling
57 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:45:10
Koeman is a myth. His record as a manager generally stinks – particularly his preferred playing style. Yes, he got Saints up to 6th but Martinez made 5th with Everton. So what?

Give him time, they say, but much more of the kick-and-rush we saw on Monday and he'll be on his way!

Tony Hill
58 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:50:12
What interests me are his final words as quoted, that you don't get time in football these days. A bit odd that he should say that unless he's been told to shape up?
Steavey Buckley
59 Posted 21/12/2016 at 12:57:02
Koeman says the project needs time. With the players in the current squad it is not going to happen no time soon. 2 wins in 13 matches proves that.

Pardew with Crystal Palace (another team Everton could not beat at home), with a similar dismal record, is in the firing line.

Alan McMillan
60 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:12:47
i'm not sure I will ever warm to him. He's too detatched; no charisma. Even his use of the word 'project' is cold. It suggests a temporary state, a defined start and finish, after which he will be happy to go elsewhere.

The job should have been given to Unsy. Alas; maybe when this project closes, he'll get his chance.

Tony Abrahams
61 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:16:29
Frank (#50), are we getting the best out of the current players? Very Good point, and this is what worries me most, because we all know the answer is a very resounding No.

I agree with everything you write in that para Frank, so it definitely looks like Ronald's way, is my-way or the highway. Honestly don't have any problems if his main objective is getting the players to work their bollocks off every game, but until we see a style of play taking shape, then it's very worrying.

Tony (#58), maybe he's just speaking the truth, but if I was paying someone £6 Mill a year, I wouldn't be very happy with what I am seeing presently. Maybe the rumours are true, and he told a few of them he didn't really fancy them, but a good manager should always get the best out of what he's got in the changies.

I honestly think he might be missing Sammy Lee!

Andrew Ellams
62 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:24:43
He's right as far as quality goes but, for most of the past 3 months, the application has been nothing short of a disgrace. That's were he comes in now, effort shouldn't cost.
Guido Blumberg
63 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:30:03
Wake me up when this season ends... and Ronald Koeman is no longer in Everton.

I could say many things but I will summarize it as follows:

Martinez = Koeman.

If we continue like this, we will descend to the Championship. And some fans want to give Koeman time...

Paul Birmingham
64 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:33:50
I acknowledge that Koeman, needs to overhaul almost the whole 1st team squad aside from (if using Mondays evidence) Ghana, Coleman, over the whole game, but it's a fact this squad isn't fit enough physically and mentally.

I'd like to see the stats for the Premier League team with the least shots attempted on goal from 18 yards plus over the last 3 seasons, but the psyche of the squad is bewildering and you'd think all of them would be playing for their right to stay at the club. The attitude shown of late is They are over paid and don't give a feck.

The Red Shite are no great team but they tried and sadly this has been lacking for this team,most of this campaign to date. The bare minimum required is to put a shift in for 90 mins so, whilst we may not win many games, at least as supporters we can see the players are trying their best. Christmas Cheers, soon for EFC!

Mike Price
65 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:46:35
The most worrying thing I've seen are the charity contracts given to players who will hold us back. Slow, old and injury prone is not the future.
Tony Abrahams
66 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:56:10
I wonder if Barry's contract was with a view to him joining the coaching staff, Mike?

Koeman spoke about him being one of the most intelligent footballers that he has ever come across, so it would make real sense if this was part of the plan.

Ian Horan
67 Posted 21/12/2016 at 13:57:42
Guys, I believe some perspective is needed in the current situation. The squad is aging and very poor as a footballing unit.

Those shouting for Koeman's head need to draw a parallel to Klopp's first 17 league games at the Red Shite. 17 games for a total of 32 points!! Koeman's first 17 games 23 points.

I am sure we all agree that Klopp inherited a far better collective of players than Mr Koman yet he still only collected 9 points more than the Blues. Give the man 18 months and then judge him.

Colin Malone
68 Posted 21/12/2016 at 14:48:40
Ronald Koeman could be the best thing to happen to James McCarthy.

In the last two games, we have seen a pressing game from James McCarthy instead of the back pass and crab style passing for the first time since he has been at the club. If he keeps that up, we could have another Roy Keane.

He's got the temprement and the same tackling style as Keane and he is a leader. At 26, there's no doubt James could be a great midfielder under Ronald Koeman.

Aidy Dews
69 Posted 21/12/2016 at 15:41:39
What are some of you talking about, 'I've seen no instant new manager syndrome kick in...', really?! Did we not win 4 out of our first 5 games? Regardless of if performances were shit or not, that happened, so I'd say that he did have an instant impact!

In the summer, Koeman was hoping to bring in a better level of quality in than we did but, due to poor seasons beforehand, those types of player were simply not interested in us. So we got in the players that we did and Tbf they are an improvement but 4 new players alone weren't going to improve our team tenfold!

And I know the football a lot of the time isn't great but for the sake of trying to make us harder to beat and more competitive, the football as suffered but Koeman does need another 2 or 3 Windows to get in the players that will fit and suit his preferred system. Once he does I'm sure the football will improve as well as results.

Look at his Saints side, they had plenty of quality and balance in the team; they played some good stuff a lot of the time and did well. I'm sure that once he gets the players, in then we'll pick up.

I'm pretty certain that when he gets a few in in January that things will pick up also!

Brian Furey
70 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:06:06
To be honest, I can't decide myself yet. My gut says Koeman is not the man to take us forward as we started the season very well but, the more time he's had, the more we are losing our confidence and any attacking ability we had.

I think it's fair to say than Ron has changed our style of play to be a lot more defensive minded with us kicking long balls up to Rom who has little support to hold it up. This is definitely NOT playing to his strengths.

This time last year, we were sitting in 10th place with the same points (23) but scored 31 goals and conceded 24. This year we're in 9th place with only 21 goals scored and 21 conceded so not really that much better defensively but a lot worse of scoring goals. Interestingly Southampton have the 3rd best defensive record with only 16 goals conceded.

I don't like comparing us to the RS but in this incidence it's very significant. Last year, they were 9th with 20 for and 19 conceded. This year Klipity Klopp has them 2nd with 41 scored and 20 against – an amazing turnaround for a team that don't appear to have a high scoring top quality striker or at least don't play him. I wonder would he handle Lukaku like he has with Sturridge?

So the question is do you blame the manager, the players or both? To me it's both as you could go through nearly the whole team and say quite a lot of them have been poor in a lot of games. However, it's hard not to blame our attacking midfielders and wingers for the lack of goals and even chances.

Deulofeu, Mirallas, Lennon and Barkley have all been poor but is this partially because Koeman has affected how they play and their confidence? He has often talked about confidence being low but to me he has created that problem by his words and tactics.

You would imagine this is the part of the team where he will want to address first and so I hope he takes in at least 2 or 3 attack-minded players in January, though I expect we might have to wait until next season.

So whilst I hold those 4 at fault for our lack of goal chances I could also ask did the manager give them lots of rope to hang themselves as he tore away their confidence with our style of play? I don't like how he has us playing and it seems to have everyone on edge with no creativity whatsoever.


I think our squad is in need of major changes and so I am willing to give Koeman some time to turn things around but I would still expect to be in around the 7th position after Man Utd and Spurs. I am worried about Williams and how he seems to have regressed from last season. He looks slow and ponderous of late and not dominant enough in the air.

To end on a positive note, after a terrible November, I looked at the fixtures for Dec and thought we could end up with only 1 point, away to Watford. In fairness we've done well to draw with Man Utd, beat Arsenal and we almost held the top scoring team to a 0-0 draw.

I'm glad Vardy's out for the Leicester game but I still can't see us getting anything there as they tore Man City to shreds. We could start 2017 in the bottom half of the table but it's the transfer window where we will see if this new era is for real or just full of more excuses.

Frank Crewe
71 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:29:22
@Aidy 69

"Koeman does need another 2 or 3 Windows to get in the players that will fit and suit his preferred system. Once he does, I'm sure the football will improve as well as results."

This implies that the players he currently has do not fit into his preferred system. If this is the case, surely it would be better to play a system that does suit the players he already has rather than relentlessly try to fit them into a system that plainly doesn't suit them.

Rick Tarleton
72 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:31:41
I've said on so many threads that Koeman is trying to play the wrong game with the players he's got. However, a suggestion as to a style that may actually suit the players he's got rather than trying to make square pegs fit into round holes, the pressing game is high intensity which an ageing and not particularly athletic squad are not suited to.

Play 3-5-2. Put Barry at the back on the left with Williams and Funes Mori alongside. Coleman and Baines as the wing-backs. Gueye, Barkley and Bolasie, when fit,as the three and Lukaku and Mirallas as the front two.
Mike Allen
73 Posted 21/12/2016 at 16:34:18
What has he addressed? The defence is still conceding 6-yard area goals, still allowing easy crosses into the box, still nothing creative in midfield, a striker who can score goals but not capable of playing the lone striker role, can't sustain the effort for 90 minutes.

Nothing has changed other than we've gone from making senseless sideways and back passes to trying to stop the other team from playing. Okay, in away games I understand it... but at home?

Give him a chance yes, but start addressing some of the problems. I honestly thought we would be competitive and hard to beat under Koeman that would stand us in good stead to have a run in both cups.

I'd love it if he can turn it round but he hasn't shown that he is capable. But it's a long-term project. Looks like a very long-term project...

Colin Williams
75 Posted 21/12/2016 at 17:50:40
Koeman, you don't deserve any more time! The way you coach is shocking! We are playing absolutely shit football, plus most of your buys were poor at best.

Many of the young players who dominate the U23s league are ready to show their talent on the big stage and you haven;t got the balls to let them flourish and prove a point!!!

Stop hiding behind the chairman's money and prove your worth as a coach / manager by playing players who deserve a jersey on merit – not by name or other criteria!

Andy Shaw
76 Posted 21/12/2016 at 18:37:46
Been reading the comments for a while and there seems to be a common thread: If we don't sit around the top 4 within a year, then sack the manager.

Slowly, slowly, catchy monkey. 21 trophy-less years is not going to be turned around via a few good performances.

My first match was the 1978 derby (Andy King) so I have seen the highs, and the lows.
Mike Berry
77 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:21:10
Always good for a laugh reading the moaners...

Ronalds not had a proper transfer window and got the services of Steve Walsh when the window was barely ajar. Give him a break and at least 2 windows to try and bring in his team, then if in the summer of 2108 its still wrong, then moan.

I expect at least Schneiderlin to be added in January. Some people have the memory of a goldfish, this lad was top draw under Ronald and had the best pass/interception rate in the Premier League. Add him alongside Gana and were starting to get on the right track.

Building a team is a project and I thoroughly expect Ronald to get it done, with... patience.

Mike Allen
78 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:43:01
Only half-way through the season and already 20 points off top spot, 14 behind RS, 10 off the Euro spots. Out of one cup, playing champions in other cup, only 9 points off bottom three and 11 off bottom.

Spent good money after one transfer window (never mind net value, he spent the money to improve the side). Found a couple of gems in Holgate and Davies who, apart from bench warming, don't get a look in.

The way he has sanctioned the new contracts and what he is supposed to be looking to buy in January, the project looks flawed to me

Mick Davies
79 Posted 21/12/2016 at 19:54:00
Ronald's not had a proper transfer window

Really? He had a whole summer, and he didn't arrive from another country; he'd had 2 years in the Premier League.

And as for the likes of Aidy, and others who praise the way Southampton played, well they were playing that way for years before he arrived. Some Saints fans actually criticised his disregard for youth – sound familiar?

John G Davies
80 Posted 21/12/2016 at 20:02:36
Koeman would not have seen the players in training or in competitive games. He could not be expected to see the full picture until he had the squad for a few months.

He will know now who is good enough and who is not good enough. Full confidence that we will have a far better balanced squad after this window.

Max Murphy
81 Posted 21/12/2016 at 20:15:54
After a decent run at the beginning of the season, many were singing the praises of the squad and manager. All of a sudden, the squad is weak, and we need to strengthen in the transfer window.Do people realistically believe bringing in 3 or 4 new players will change things?

The club is rotten all the way through to the core – and dollar-chaser Koeman is at his 9th club in 16 years.

I just wonder where the next 20 points are going to come from, so we can at least avoid relegation.
John Graham
83 Posted 21/12/2016 at 21:00:16
Yes he needs time because we have lots of players he doesn't fancy, by the look of it. He's tried to get the best out of them and they have all had their chance so hopefully in the next month some will move on.

For me I think the following have to go if they want to play games: Cleverley, Mirallas, Deulofeu, Lennon, Kone, Niasse, Oviedo, Robles, Gibson and close to the edge would be Barkley, Galloway, Jagielka even Lukaku if we can get a good price.

Paul Hewitt
84 Posted 21/12/2016 at 23:01:42
Koeman will bring us trophies. It's just going to take time.
Will Mabon
85 Posted 22/12/2016 at 01:13:43
"Forget about Barkley – he is not going to be a player. The guy has skills but will never fit into a team that will win anything worthwhile. He doesn't have the brain, end of story.

And we will waste time trying the impossible of building a team around him."


Enough, please. Doesn't have the brain? Like many here, maybe you don't have, or choose not to have, the memory. Go back and watch Barkley's game performances and highlights. Watch the passes, the movement, the shots, the excellent goals. Watch him instantly control the ball, then turn leaving one, two, sometimes three players in his wake.

Watch this player with no football brain/intelligence looking around him for options as he runs. Watch his involvement in Naismith's hattrick vs Chelsea amongst many others, as an example of a player that can't read the game. He was doing this week-in, week-out.

This guy is the most talented and skilful player we've had in the Prem. era bar Rooney. He was noticed and widely talked of. He made the England set up, and performed well for England. It's not about whether he can be the player we want: he already was that player.

It's widely cited in here that Martinez "destroyed" and confused players, and let standards slip. Barkley was part of that team. Notice the similar effect in Deulofeu, Mirallas and others. What we're watching now is a player crippled by nerves and lack of self-belief. Talent never leaves a player. Only degradation by age removes the facility to employ it.

Remember the last England debacle. Called up and taken to the tournament, only to be completely snubbed by Wobble Jowls, the genius that gave us the Iceland performance. The only outfield player to not see a minute on the pitch. Several pundits at the time commented that this may be a big blow to Barkley.

Barkley needs help – and he needs to be playing under a manager that gets him, that is prepared to play him to his strengths and help him to rediscover his form and self-belief. Koeman is doing the opposite, and he's doing it in public. He's a PR clown, he'll finish Barkley off, and he'll sell him if allowed. His reaction to Barkley's admittedly bad free kick in the derby was a disgrace for a so-called professional manager.

Every successful team of current and recent times has a player of Barkley's ilk. Koeman's "project" is to cover his arse with percentage players. I guarantee, if Barkley goes, he'll be back to the player he was. The better the manager, the more pronounced the effect will be. Koeman's "project" is to cover his arse with dull percentage players, and players that speak Dutch.

Liam Reilly
86 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:33:04
I see Man City are looking to pay another £50M for Van Dijk... lunacy. I wonder if that's to partner alongside Stones? Not if the Man City forums are anything to go by as they are distinctly underwhelmed with our former £50M man.

Give Koeman time; at least 2 Windows and maybe lighten up a little, as it's only a game.

Dave Ganley
87 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:35:12
Spot on, Jay Harris. Quite an apt statement: chaotic mess that Koeman took over. He also did have an instant impact which many fail to point out winning restaurant of the first 5. However players have reverted to type again.

How anybody can say that Koeman has destroyed the confidence of Barkley and Deulofeu is beyond me – didn't people watch last season?

Anyway, Koeman does need time to sort out this chaotic mess and to get rid of the deadwood that Martinez left. Judge him in 18 months time...

Mike Connolly
88 Posted 22/12/2016 at 08:51:27
Koeman should have started work as soon as he was appointed.... but went on holiday instead. And then had to play catch-up on the players he was analysing at the club. Bit different from Moyes who started his new job while he was still employed by us.

He's got to get it right in January. So often the fans get blamed for lack of atmosphere at the ground. But, even with the fans behind them on Monday, they failed miserably. I just hope this season is better...

Stan Schofield
89 Posted 22/12/2016 at 14:58:01
Will @85: Spot on. When we've got rid of our most talented players, we can resume in full swing the mediocrity of the last 30 years.
Rick Tarleton
90 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:13:40
Spot on Will, let's get rid of talent and use the runners and tacklers, they'll win the ball, but won't have a clue what to do with it. Barkley needs to be used to his strengths, not as he was use din the derby game running round like a headless chicken, so that when he had the ball he hadn't time to move it productively.
I keep saying this but Koeman is playing a game which is alien to the strengths of his players, they are not a young, athletic team like his Southampton side and pretending they are suited to this game is football insanity.
Tom Bowers
91 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:15:37
More time, more time... I am fed up hearing this from Everton managers.

Moyes had ten years of time and granted ,he didn't have the money available like Martinez and Koeman, but his stubborn system never changed and Everton became a one dimensional team of average workhorses.

Martinez got some immediate improvement although he was sunk by defensive woes eventually.

Koeman had some early results this season albeit somewhat luckily at times but since the Boro game they have become very poor, even allowing for the two wins against West ham and Arsenal, whereby they were outplayed in the first half hour.

Bolasie looked lively at times but didn't really give enough of what was expected and that was to support Lukaku only scoring one goal.

Offensively they have been poor and apart from Rom's 3 goals at woeful Sunderland and 2 against Watford his output has also been low so far although as I said the support hasn't been there.

The supporting cast of Lennon, Deulofeu & Valencia have not really been fancied by Koeman along with some other fringe players so the gaffer seems to sticking with what he has got even after the failures match after match. This causes me to think he may not have the motivation necessary to inspire the team to many wins the rest of the season.

Patrick Murphy
92 Posted 22/12/2016 at 15:19:48
Is there such a thing as time and patience in the Premier League? Alan Pardew is the latest to lose his job for failing to win enough football matches or rather for losing too many.
Chris Williams
93 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:05:46
There was a time when Harry Catterick was known as the Happy Convict because he kept asking for another year.

He was waiting for all his young players to mature and knew what was coming, and it did come. Sadly it didn't last too long.

Not strictly comparable for sure, but it does take time, and Koeman is coming from a long way back compared to The Cat. He needs time and he will be given time.

Trevor Peers
94 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:09:53
The premise that, if we wait long enough, Barkley will consistently turn in great performances, held by so many on TW, is having a negative effect on the whole club.

If Koeman does sell him, his chances of succeeding as a manager, which are already seem slim, will become non-existent, such will be the bad feeling against him.

Yet if he keeps him, Koeman's chances of success will also be zero. The next manager will then be saddled with the same problem: get the best out of Barkley or be damned.

I'm struggling to remember in my life time a player who contributes so little, but is held in such high esteem. The nearest comparison I can come with is an ex-Arsenal player, Peter Marinello, dubbed the new George Best.

Chris Williams
95 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:23:14
Trevor, was he the player the quip about him not being good enough to lace Best's drinks was made?
Mike Allen
96 Posted 22/12/2016 at 16:49:18
Sorry but, in football terms, Barkley is a dunce. I'm not saying he hasn't got skills but he does not in anyway shape or form look like or play like an intelligent footballer.

That may well be down to Martinez or Koeman. He may be a lad who doesn't need too much information on tactics... may be give him a free roll up front but he isn't now or ever going to be a midfield general.

Paul Hewitt
97 Posted 22/12/2016 at 21:01:32
I feel totally confident with Koeman as manager. Next season we WILL challenge for top 4. Get rid of all the crap (which is most of the squad). He will bring in his own players, then watch us go.
Tommy Webber
98 Posted 22/12/2016 at 23:41:50
How can you trust a manager who wears his jacket inside out?

(Check the Chang on the top image, peeps!)

Patrick Murphy
99 Posted 23/12/2016 at 00:16:27
Tommy (#98),

Could it be that Ronald just has his collar turned up?

Dan Egerton
100 Posted 23/12/2016 at 04:27:29
FYI We are in the middle when it comes to the average age of our team. According to this article.

http://www.express.co.uk/pictures/sport/7607/Average-age-Premier-League-squads-sportgalleries

Paul Smith
101 Posted 23/12/2016 at 16:33:33
I fully understand Koeman's idea of time but, if I am honest, I don't think there is time in football. If I keep supporting Everton on complete patience i'm not sure i'll see a trophy again.

I keep banging on about this but time is precious when Man Utd, Liverpool and Chelsea are outside the Champions League. Once they all reach the top 4 again, time becomes slower for us. We will lose anyone of quality in that time and have to keep replacing them.

I only care about Everton as a brand I have no affection for Koeman or anyone else in a suit so to speak. We should have either dealt with the club more ambitiously this summer or not get Koeman in the first place because in my opinion this is one of the last clubs a very well paid group of coaches should expect time.

That's not Koeman's fault but Evertonians have had nothing but time for too many years and its time the club played like a club with no time.

Anthony Hughes
102 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:17:35
I want to give Koeman time but modern football is completely unforgiving. Was Pardew relatively speaking doing any worse than Koeman?
Jay Harris
103 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:40:08
Anthony, of course Pardew was doing worse, relatively or not. Pardew has been at Palace for years and has the squad built his way. Koeman has been at EFC for five minutes and inherited an aging and disorganised squad.

Evertonians make me despair.

The man has only just come to the club, the majority of fans thought he was the best choice, the club now has ambition and a plan and some supporters want Koeman out.

Instead of all the pissing and moaning it would benefit us all to get behind the club, manager and players while we go through this transition.

FFS did the RS want Klopp out when they were up and down last season despite him inheriting £300m worth of players and being given more funding.

The same people that wanted to give Martinez more time despite 2½ years of dross want Koeman out when he has hardly got his feet under the table.

You couldn't make it up.

Tony Hill
104 Posted 23/12/2016 at 19:57:04
Jay (#103), absolutely, you express my feelings and I say that as one who wanted Koeman out because I was convinced after Watford that he'd irreversibly lost the team's trust (regardless of the players' own cowardice).

I have felt reassured since the Arsenal game and the derby, despite the awful ending, because I see that Koeman does care and that the players (or enough of them) will indeed back him.

Having made a bit of an arse of myself by wishing him out, I now risk the same in reverse by saying that I expect us to have a significantly improved second half to this season and a bright future.

Ricocheting around horribly, I know, but I still say that the Arsenal game was a big turning point. We will see...

Stu Gore
105 Posted 23/12/2016 at 20:21:48
Oscar to China for £60m! This kind of thing will effect our ability to pick up good/fringe players from the very top sides in the coming years. Forgive me for referring to the Chavs as a very top side. I think you know what I mean.

Hang on I'll fix this .

Oscar to China for £60m! This kind of thing will effect our ability to pick up good/fringe players from the overmoneyed classless gutterballers that find themselves temporarily above us.

Better?

Better.

Patrick Murphy
106 Posted 23/12/2016 at 21:07:04
Stu (#105),

Perversely it will also allow those clubs who have money, to continue to dominate the game in Europe. Which Chinese clubs are going to buy the likes of Ossie, Gibson et al when they can have former TV icons such as Oscar etc?

Everton FC always seem to get their timing wrong; if Moshiri or somebody else had have arrived at Goodison, three to five years ago, we may have had a decent chance of climbing the slippery pole, but now we have to spend huge sums in order to maintain our place in the top ten and, like you say, the Chinese factor is another obstacle in the way of Everton's progress.


Top Five best paid players according to the Mail in July

1. Cristiano Ronaldo (Real Madrid) – £18m per year
2. Lionel Messi (Barcelona) – £17m per year
3. Hulk (Shanghai SIPG) – £17m per year
4. Neymar (Barcelona) – £16.2m per year
5. Zlatan Ibrahimovic (Manchester United) – £13.6m per year
=5. Graziano Pelle (Shandong Luneng) – £13.6m per year

China Syndrome

Paul Smith
107 Posted 24/12/2016 at 13:05:19
Patrick (#106) – you're so right with the comment about our timing. Even when its a positive move we still seem to fall behind don't we?

I do feel there is still a market out there and players will always want to come to the Premier League but our market has changed slightly with 2 of the English Champions league clubs being Leicester and Spurs, plus West Ham and Southampton having Europa campaigns over the last couple of years, we have become less attractive.

I also believe the run of form under Martinez, combined with players talking on international duty and new managers telling players their too big for Everton, needs putting to bed. If we get these 2 from Man United the hype needs to be scrapped because, looking at the way fans went colder on Bolasie Stekelenburg and Williams over 12 games, it seems better to save judgement; let's see how they do before raving just because they're fresh.

Whoever we sign is under major pressure to produce quickly and mistakes will happen. Let's get on their side and make them feel like Evertonians and have players talking about our fans knowing their football again.

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