Mayor drops further hints about dockside stadium

Thursday 2 February 2017  118 Comments  [Jump to last]
Joe Anderson spoke today of the exciting potential for Liverpool's northern docklands in a new stadium for Everton at Bramley-Moore dock.

Though the club are keen to stress that negotiations are continuing with the Peel Group who own the land earmarked for a new waterfront home for the Blues, the Mayor followed up his comments in the wake of last month's AGM with further pronouncements on the benefits to the area of of Everton moving in.

Speaking at the unveiling of the city council's proposed Ten Streets regeneration scheme, Anderson linked the Blues plans at Bramley-Moore dock and Liverpool's bid for the 2026 Commonwealth Games.

“If the stadium comes off we're talking with Peel about 2026, the Commonwealth Games, and that's exciting," the Mayor said.

“We're interviewing people. We've got some announcements to make shortly about who's on our team, leading our team.

“If the stadium comes off around Bramley Moore then we're talking to Peel about developing that for the Commonwealth Games.

“And it's an exciting opportunity, an exciting juncture we are at in the north of Liverpool but the whole city.”

Watch Mayor Anderson's comments at LiverpoolEcho.co.uk  


Reader Comments (118)

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Brian Harrison
1 Posted 02/02/2017 at 16:59:33
He is suggesting if the Bramley-Moore Dock site becomes our new ground, then he will be speaking to Peel Holdings about their involvement in the stadium being the centrepiece for the Commonwealth Games in 2026.

He went on to say this is the most exciting thing that has happened to the club in years. Could it really be happening?

Colin Metcalfe
2 Posted 02/02/2017 at 17:26:05
Brian (#17), I hope it's true but god forbid they even think about putting an athletics track round the pitch!!
Steavey Buckley
3 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:07:22
If a new stadium is to be built on the docks with the intention of using it for the commonwealth games in 2026 Everton asking for financial support to build the stadium would be justified, considering Man City got their stadium because of the games.
Tony Rio
4 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:13:51
Aren't we buying the land off Peel Holdings? What's 2026 got to do with them? Hope they're not part owning it...
Brian Williams
5 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:15:56
No track, no way, not even for a free ground!!
Gareth Mercer
6 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:16:20
Is nobody a little concerned that we will end up with a far from intimate stadium, should there be a need for a running track in the stadium? The last thing we want is the West Ham stadium atmosphere...I am assuming that a track would be needed if it was to host the games.
Colin Glassar
7 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:16:42
Drip, drip, drip
Brian Williams
8 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:17:22
Read some of the comments above, Gareth.
Gareth Mercer
9 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:18:34
Fair enough. Let's hope this is a little off the mark then.
Barry Bragg
10 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:18:44
Very excited about new stadium but not so much about it being suitable for athletics. Man City and West Ham struggling for atmosphere with converted athletics stadiums. Would we be compromised on our design if we build a football stadium that was (albeit temporarily) convertible to accommodate athletics?
John Pierce
11 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:19:39
I tricky set of balls to juggle, if the plan includes the commonwealth games. I'm a bit wary of Anderson mouthing off too much. His pronouncements are vague as they are brash.

I hate to think he is putting the cart before the proverbial but Peel must want to get something done. If they walk away or try and screw us too far i'd say that area of the docks would be shunned by one half of Merseyside for a generation.

Despite many protestations on this site about the development ("I'll believe it when I see it" lark), I think many are already dreaming of a game under lights on the waterfront.

Brian Williams
12 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:20:34
Gareth. I bloody hope so. Nothing could be worse than waiting an age for a new stadium and ending up with something like West Ham's. It would be an absolute disaster!
David Tennant
13 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:25:21
But please, please, please no running track around the pitch. The death knell of any new stadium. We have to be close to the pitch. Otherwise that cauldron atmosphere is lost and your left with a plastic-aluminium shell.

Look at West Ham, Arsenal vs The Allianz or Juventus stadium.

John Raftery
14 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:30:54
A stadium with an athletics track will be great for the Commonwealth Games and probably a disaster for us. If they are even contemplating the model used for the London Stadium they can forget it.

First and foremost, our new stadium must be built for football. If there is a model somewhere in the world which is compatible with both football and athletics, I have yet to see it.

Anton Garvey
16 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:41:51
Joe Anderson seems to want the Bramley-Moore Dock more than anyone else it smells to me and many other people. Why don't we have a referendum between the people who count the supporters. We don't want an athletic stadium, running tracks, etc – we want a Football Ground. Look at West Ham!!!

I don't know why we keep having these bullshit meetings over the ground we haven't bought a brick a bag of cement plans etc. I bet there's plenty of Scotch and Brandies being drunk though.

Steve Ferns
17 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:48:15
I don't think it's doable without the athletics track. The council want the games, we want a stadium, peel holdings wants an athletics village that will convert into retail shops or restaraunts.

So the question is, do we want an athletics stadium at the docks or a football stadium outside the city?

I think we would end up owning this staidum, unlike West Ham, which means whilst they are stuck with the athletics, we can convert ours like City did.

I think we might need to just take it on the chin for a few years, to get what we want long term.

Soni Samuel
18 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:51:41
Let them put a track around the Redshite's ground and we will have Kenwright, Jon Woods and the Mayor do a marathon on it as part of the Grand Opening for 2026!
Brent Stephens
19 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:52:23
Steve, if the Games are not until 2026, are we stuck with a running track until after that? Running track sounds horrendous. Or is there any way that removable seats could cater for that, just for the games? Without the downside of removable seats e.g. limited incline?

Or athletes are required to run around the outside of the stadium and back in for the finish.

Stephen Brady
20 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:55:24
it has to be a football stadium, design removable seats before the games so the track can fit then once their over we can put permanent seats in.

Peel need this stadium to kick start their regeneration, the games will help fund accommodation and retail – it's a winner for everyone.

Ron Sear
21 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:56:07
Impending disaster on its way if they build an athletics instead of a football stadium. We will end up with a seriously crap ground and who the hell can confirm that Liverpool will actually get the Commonwealth Games anyway?
Phil Walling
22 Posted 02/02/2017 at 18:57:01
Sets the stage nicely for another bout of internecine warfare between Evertonians young and old.

Shall we get a vote on size, shape and configuration of Putin Park or will all the decisions be made over vodkas in London?

I have an uncomfortable feeling that key sponsor Usmanov and Mayor Anderson won't see eye to eye on much when it gets down to finance and influence over the project. And will Uncle Bill get his Boys Pen back?

We deserve to know!

Patrick Murphy
23 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:06:25
I would have thought that Everton FC would want to be in a new stadium within five years and that having a running track for the best part of another five years after that, would be out of the question for most supporters. Of course there may be ways of the design team to facilitate both, but at what financial cost?

Unfortunately as with most things, beggars can't be choosers, and the club will be very reluctant to overload itself with unsustainable debt which might impinge on building a decent squad. Therefore, the club will probably have to accept whatever is given to them and the dreams of the fans may only be partly satisfied.

I also don't believe there will be that much consultation with the fans when it comes to Everton FC's final decision.


John Raftery
24 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:07:20
Even contemplating an athletics track for an event which is minuscule compared with the Olympics, will last less than a fortnight, is almost 10 years away and is far from certain to end up being held in the city seems madness.

There must also be a concern that Peel, whose core business is owning and developing property for a variety of sectors, such as retail and leisure, will be aiming for a big slice of the ongoing return from any stadium. I am not holding my breath on an early, satisfactory outcome from our club's point of view.

Patrick Murphy
25 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:15:17
What happens if the City of Liverpool doesn't win its bid to host the 2026 Commonwealth games? Birmingham is pretty keen to host those games and other nations such as Canada and New Zealand are said to be interested in acting as hosts.
Dan Davies
26 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:15:51
What chance a retractable roof and stands? Be nice that wouldn't it? Top of the range 2020 style like...?
Sandra Bowen
27 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:16:53
What happened to the running track at the Ethiad Stadium? That was purpose built for the Commonwealth Games but I don't see any negatives with how their stadium looks now.

There are some very clever designers out there so I don't see it as an issue. It's got to be a positive in terms of planning approval and speeding things up with the council. Win-win, I say.

Mike Berry
28 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:19:08
Stop jumping up and down about the track, do you think for a minute that Mr Moshiri would want a permanent perimeter track around the pitch?

There will be a solution in the long term, and I feel some exciting news in April when we get the nod!

Darren Hind
29 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:26:37
Good Question, Sandra.

I don't remember when or how that track at the Etihad disappeared....but it's not a problem to them now!

Nicholas Ryan
30 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:29:33
There won't be an athletics track around the pitch 'cos none of our players can run that far!
Steve Carse
31 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:36:21
One legacy of the original athletics stadium design is that the roof doesn't extend far enough such that, as anyone who has sat in the front dozen or more rows at The Etihad will confirm, you get a good soaking when it rains even though you are technically under cover.

A top stadium my backside.

Terry Hughes
32 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:38:56
I, like every other like-minded blue, would love it if we could move into our new stadium in the next few years and hopefully we could, in conjunction with Peel Holdings.

I'm just conscious of the fact that, if Joe Anderson loses his title as Mayor, then the whole project might take longer than expected due to the other crowd over the park raising silly and petty objections due to 100% pure jealousy.

Brent Stephens
33 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:39:36
"One legacy of the original athletics stadium design is that...anyone who has sat in the front dozen or more rows at the etjhad..get[s] a good soaking when it rains even though you are technically under cover."

Is there any reg that says away supporters must all be in one section of the ground? If not, the answer here would be to give them these exposed seats all around the stadium.

Keith Monaghan
34 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:40:26
With regard to Citeh's stadium.

This may sound crazy but is true:-

The current lowest tier of seats (& dressing rooms etc) was already there, but below the athletics track/arena used at the C.Games (July 2002)!

I was at the Opening Ceremony & a morning's athletics and can assure you it's true. City moved in a year later after the unroofed stand at one end was knocked down and re-built ready for the start of the 2003-04 season.

Patrick Murphy
35 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:49:18
Here's a video showing how Singapore National Stadium moves from a football stadium into an Athletics stadium.


Link

Brent Stephens
36 Posted 02/02/2017 at 19:53:14
Patrick!!! Superb!!! Does it all work okay? That's the answer?
Jeff Armstrong
37 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:03:47
That's true about City's stadium, the football stadium was already in place, the pitch was lowered, and the track removed, hey presto, a lower tier appears and no track.

If we have to wait 4 or 5 years for our new stadium to be redeveloped, many factors may have changed, and we could end up stuck with another Olympic Park debacle.

Jeff Armstrong
38 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:06:51
Either way with the Singapore model, you end up with a bowl, not what we want either...
Shaun Traynor
39 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:15:05
I want 4 steep and straight stands, intimidating, on top of the opposition, close to the goal and a place teams hate to come because they feel and hear the fans more than any other stadium in the league. I want Dortmund's stadium...

But the outside, seating and architecture modern and visually appealing... but inside a horrible atmosphere for any team to come to

I don't want curved stands behind the goal or the side stands to be too far away from the touch line

Is that asking too much...

https://youtu.be/_FAGQUibng8

Brian Williams
40 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:23:26
That Singapore sports hub video is amazing!
John Raftery
41 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:29:23
The Singapore stadium is impressive but you are still left with the problem of the gap behind the goal.
Eugene Ruane
42 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:49:17
Well fat Joe could have said fuck-all but he's been flappin' his gums for months now.

So if nothing comes of it, I'll be Ludvig - Link

Nigel Munford
43 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:49:30
You're all forgetting something, we'll need a track for all of the 'Laps of Honour' the players will be running when we win all this silverware in the future.
Mike Green
44 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:51:44
The problem with West Ham's ground is they should have built a football stadium that could be adapted into an athletics stadium for a month, not the other way around.

Mayor Joe's little bursts make me nervous to be honest. Feels all too much like jam tomorrow...

Paul Mackie
45 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:57:22
I'd rather we had a stadium in Kirby where the opposition can feel the supporters' breath on the back of their necks, than a stadium at the docks with a bloody running track.
Jason Bowen
46 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:57:56
Let's be honest about this, we all want whats best for Everton. So do we want a four sided stadium on old run down docks that will never generate much interest commercially or do we want a truly amazing stadium that is part of a fucking huge plan to transform the north docks area because of the commonwealth games?

It will be like a new city down there with retail, leisure, restaurants and bars, new high rise accommodation etc! If we have to put up with a running track for one or two years then so fucking what!!!!!

Man City got rid of it quite well and that is a 25-year-old design! Architects would wipe the floor with that design now and it ain't even that bad. Ours would be truly world class so lets get real, the only way we will become a real powerhouse again is by going with this!

Bring it fuckin on, I say!

Brian Harrison
47 Posted 02/02/2017 at 20:59:17
I think some posters are jumping the gun over the proposed Commonwealth Games in 2026. Should Everton do a deal for the new stadium to be built at Bramley-Moore Dock I would imagine we will be in it within 3 years. This will be a purpose built football stadium, which will have been used some 6 years prior to any Commonwealth Games if Liverpool were successful with their bid.

The London Stadium were West Ham play was a purpose built stadium for the Olympics. Just like the Etihad was built for the Commonwealth Games. Both of these stadiums were converted to football stadiums although I would imagine that West Ham don't feel as if its their stadium yet because its like moving into a house that other people have used. Not exactly a brand new stadium built solely for your club as ours will be if its built.

So I wouldn't worry about a running track as it wont have one, it might have to be modified for 2 weeks if it was used for the Commonwealth Games.

As for Phil suggesting a Boys Pen, well maybe not such a bad idea – we could fill it free for all school children in the City, now wouldn't that be unique?

Kevin Tully
48 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:00:42
I would take these comments from the Mayor with a pinch of salt. He has already come under severe pressure locally over spending on infrastructure without any official commitment from EFC or Peel regarding this area.

He knows the club would prefer improved access in place if they do commit to a major project such as a stadium. He can answer his critics by pointing to a Commonwealth Games bid, knowing the real driver behind the regeneration of the area would be a new stadium.

There will be no stadium built with private money that includes a provision for a Games that may or may not be awarded to the City. However, he is keen to see hotels, shops, offices and bars included in the future development of the site. Forget worrying about running tracks, not happening.

Mark Stone
49 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:01:53
Etihad is ok though, isn't it? That had a running track. The problem with the Olympic/London Stadium is that it was never designed with the intention of being a football stadium later on. The City of Manchester Stadium was, and it was designed accordingly. I think it would be ok.
Joe Edwards
50 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:04:18
Joe the toe keeping his arrogant fat arsed face in the news again.
Jay Wood
51 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:06:00
Did everyone miss the proposed date for the possible Commonwealth Games bid, with no guarantee that the city will even win the bidding?

2026, as in TWENTY-TWENTY-SIX.

Think about that a wee bit...

Why would Everton sign up to such a tenuous possibility, NINE YEARS down the track – and I don't mean running track here.

I think it more likely that the thinking by all parties will be a dedicated football stadium to house Everton in. That will be the cornerstone on which other development around Bramley-Moore Dock will be built upon, including possibly other dedicated stadiums for other sports.

The (hopefully) Everton dockside FOOTBALL stadium could easily be modified to accommodate many other sports, including field athletics, rather than track athletics.

It just doesn't make logical, financial or logistical sense to build a (primarily) football stadium with a running track for an event that isn't even guaranteed to be hosted in the city, NINE YEARS from now with the intention of converting it to a completely dedicated footy stadium a full decade after its construction, once those 'futuristic games' are completed.

Tony Abrahams
52 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:12:24
Maybe this is why Goodison has been getting tarted up, because we might need it for a year in the future?
Tony Sullivan
53 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:15:09
Anderson is an embittered politician and cannot be trusted. He failed to get the Labour nomination for the forthcoming Mayoral election and is yet to get over it.

Currently he is selling off the city heritage, and trying to tie up as many deals as he can before he goes in April.

Highly unlikely to be around when the deal is signed. In my view, it is not worth listening to anything he says.

Patrick Murphy
54 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:24:29
Jay (#51)

The actual games may take place in 2026 but they will be awarded sometime during 2019 – in plenty of time to incorporate a running track if required.

Pete Cross
55 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:28:26
England's winning city bid will be announced in 2018, and the winning Commonwealth city a year later.
Eugene Ruane
56 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:29:35
Tony (#42) – Maybe this is why Goodison has been getting tarted up, because we might need it for a year in the future?

If that's 'tarted up', it's Monday night gravy level (ie: a flannel under the arms, smear of lippy and a quick squirt of Charlie up the kilt.)

Brian Hennessy
57 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:34:17
Our local team, Waterford Utd, moved to a stadium many years ago that has a running track around it – that was the death knell for the club: no atmosphere whatsoever.

I know you can't compare what it would be like with 50,000 spectators but you are simply too far from the pitch.

I'm all for a new stadium on the docks but sorry, if it means having a running track – no thanks, I would prefer to stay at Goodison until it falls down around us.

Dennis Stevens
58 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:37:26
Redeveloping Goodison Park sounds more & more attractive every time this issue crops up!

However, whatever happens & wherever it is, I echo those demanding a stadium with four sides near the action, steep & intimidating. Oh, & preferably including safe-standing areas too - lots of them!

James Flynn
59 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:42:50
Madison Square Gardens hosted the Millrose games (A US major track and field event) for almost 100 years; the Garden an enclosed, 18,000-seat rectangular box in mid-Manhattan.

Irish-Evertonians remember Eamonn Coghlan's feats there?

If a major, world-renowned, track and field event can be successfully held in an indoor rectangular box for a century, I doubt stadium architects will struggle to figure out a way to transfer the new dockside, four-walled Goodison Fortress into a proper venue for track and field.

The first 6-7 rows around the new place were installed as removable? Hell, 8 rows? I don't know. Seems simple enough. Would leave plenty room to accommodate track and field.

First, though, as we need, is to construct a stadium built with "Goodison bear-pit" in mind. Be surprised Moshiri neglects this. He's no pup, after all. He doesn't need money. So why purchase Everton?

For me, it's because what renown he garners in the wide-world will come from bringing Everton Football Club back to the top. And he won't miss the chance... I hope.

Brent Stephens
60 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:45:38
Nigel (#43) – very good!
Brian Hennessy
61 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:47:44
So what we need then is someone really incapable to Chair the Liverpool Commonwealth Games bid to make sure it fails.

Someone who will talk the talk but not deliver. Someone who will make all the committee and public believe that it's in the bag right up until the last minute, while at the same time pocketing all the money.

I know just the man anyone got Bill's number?

John Tyrrell
62 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:53:12
I like everyone else want a traditional football stadium with 4 straight sides and the front row of seat as close as uefa allow to create a atmosphere.

The only way that could then become an atheletics track would be to have a hydraulic pitch that lifts up till the stadium is wide enough for the running track to go round and a temporary floor inserted between the raised pitch and the stand for the track. The other benefit to having the pitch raiseable means the pitch could be raised to the top of the stadium to allow the pitch to grow better.

The last advantage of this would be once the pitch is raised to roof height it would make the stadium an indoor arena with a solid floor, a true 4 sided football stadium that could be used for various events.
Tony Abrahams
63 Posted 02/02/2017 at 21:57:25
Agree, Eugene, but you should have seen her before. I was driving along Goodison Road this summer and told my red mate to look at the window frames along the side of the ground, and he was shocked at how run down our chairman had let the place go.

"It definitely needs tarting up," is what he said to me with a smile, "it's rougher than the Grafton used to be on a Monday night!"

Phil Greenough
64 Posted 02/02/2017 at 22:06:56
I'm thinking that the running track could feasibly be returned to disabled seating/area. There is a big deal going on at the moment about ensuring the disabled supporters can be facilitated on match days.
Jay Wood
65 Posted 02/02/2017 at 22:21:47
Patrick @ 54 and Pete @ 55.

You help make my point for me.

With the English preferred city named in 2018 and the actual host only named in 2019, surely Everton will have dug the first spade in the ground well before that if this is genuinely going to happen.

The stadium design has to be determined not on ifs and maybes, but clarity and certainty. To do otherwise is to risk a reet hotchpotch.

Patrick Murphy
66 Posted 02/02/2017 at 22:53:44
Jay, I agree, Anderson seems to have muddied the waters a little with his two statements in the OP “If the stadium comes off around Bramley-Moore then we're talking to Peel about developing that for the Commonwealth Games.

“And it's an exciting opportunity, an exciting juncture we are at in the north of Liverpool but the whole city.” And earlier in the piece: “If the stadium comes off we're talking with Peel about 2026, the Commonwealth Games, and that's exciting," the Mayor said.

Both sentences would suggest that the Commonwealth games issue is to be piggy-backed onto the Everton stadium proposal and not the other way round. We'll see how things pan out in the next few months, I suppose.

Joe Edwards
67 Posted 02/02/2017 at 23:00:58
Anderson is a lying toad of the highest order; he pulled the rug on a football development for kids on the old Thingwall Manweb club and instead allowed the lease to be sold to a private hedge management fund who immediately applied for planning permission for houses.

The only thing the fat arrogant pleb is interested in is cutting deals with property firms. Don't believe anything that comes out of the rat's mouth.

Colin Glassar
68 Posted 02/02/2017 at 23:03:25
I just hope it has a safe standing end (or two) to generate atmosphere.
David Clark
69 Posted 02/02/2017 at 23:49:43
The City of Manchester stadium was redeveloped after the 2002 games and an extra 10,000 seats were installed (at a cost of 㿔M - 㿞M I think). The running track was removed and you would not really know that the Etihad once had one.

So, you get the design right for the long-term (New Old Lady) and compromise on the "interim" solution for the games. If only it was that simple...

I've also been to the Singapore Sports Hub when we played Arsenal in 2015-16 pre-season. I loved the stadium (no obstructed views!!) and the transport infrastructure (I think there was 50k or so there?).

But, there was too much of a gap to the pitch on each side & a massive gap at each end. We need a more intimate & intimidating arena in my opinion.

Joe O'Brien
70 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:05:01
Aren't Arsenal looking at the possibility of a section of safe standing at the moment, Colin? They might get the ball rolling and set a precedent hopefully.
Gary Russell
71 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:05:56
Patrick, when we played in the Singapore National Stadium in pre-season a couple of years ago, I and the hundreds of blues in attendance were mighty impressed with said stadium. It didn't seem that big but the fantastic design with retractable roof, excellent. I had no idea where I was sitting, could be Thunderbirds are go.
Stan Schofield
72 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:08:42
To be taken with a pinch of salt.
Bill Watson
73 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:13:52
Tony (#53), you're confusing the City Mayor and City Region Mayor. Anderson is the City Mayor and was re-elected in 2016 for a further 4 years, ie until 2020.

Steve Rotherham is the Labour Party nomination for City Region Mayor. They are two totally separate positions.
Derek Thomas
74 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:20:53
No fucking running track, not now, not one you can take out, not one you can convert, not one ever, NEVER.

Also, given that 1st tier cities are shying away from the money pit that is Olympic bidding (not withstanding all the financial jiggery pokery) have they actually bid, are the bids open, who else is bidding?

Whose 'turn' is it? -– this counts a lot, Northern Hemisphere / Africa / Southern Hemisphere... will they actually win if they bid...Has anybody done a costing on the potential project?

Or is this just as Khrushchev says – A Politician is somebody who promises to build you a bridge, where there isn't even a river.

Anyway – No fucking running track. I'd rather stay at Goodison and do it up one stand at a time than have one.

David Israel
75 Posted 03/02/2017 at 00:34:50
I wish the mayor would keep his counsel on this subject.

Does anyone here know when the venue for the Commonwealth Games will be decided?

Of course, like most of you around here, I wouldn't want a track around the pitch. But the choice could come down to either that format or a strictly-football ground at the other site, and that's assuming the council would support us in the latter option.

Pretty soon, the "rebuild Goodison" crowd will hit the airwaves again! ;-)

Derek Thomas
76 Posted 03/02/2017 at 01:07:41
Okay; I could live with the retractable Singapore model as show by Patrick @35. But only if they did a proper job and nothing half-arsed. It has to be a Football Stadium first.

What gets me is it'll only be used the once for 2 or 3 weeks... won't it?? Just seems a bit of a waste...It's not EFC's job to help fund Anderson's wish list.

Cost though. Queensland (pop 5M?) are gearing up for the 2018 Commonwealth. Games. Estimated as to cost vary, but the average of the estimates is about £1.2 BILLION.

These things never seem to come in under budget – and the next one always seems more expensive than the last. Not quite sure who Anderson thinks is going to pay for all this, even if they do get the bid.

Habib Erkan Jr
77 Posted 03/02/2017 at 01:35:43
Was not the City of Manchester Stadium constructed with a track for the 2002 Commonwealth Games and was later re-purposed as a football stadium for the citizens? Why can't the city of Liverpool and EFC come to the same arrangement?
David Ellis
78 Posted 03/02/2017 at 03:23:58
I also have been to the Singapore stadium – just not very intimate and too far from the pitch at the ends because of the bowl shape.
Mike Green
79 Posted 03/02/2017 at 06:41:04
Joe (#70) – very interesting if they are.

During the hooligan years, Arsenal, from memory, were the only club who refused to put fences up saying if they treated their fans like animals they would behave like animals.

Some may find it ironic / some appropriate that they should then be the ones to lead us back into an era where spectators can stand again.

Ray Robinson
80 Posted 03/02/2017 at 08:43:54
I must be missing something here.

If the argument for a stadium is strengthened by an application for the Commonwealth Games, then surely the stadium is going to have to be constructed as (a) an athletics stadium and then converted to a football stadium afterwards (as with the Etihad); or (b) built as a football stadium with large areas behind each goal to accommodate a running track.

Either option would seem to preclude a four sided stadium and option (a) would mean not moving in until after 2026. How do we get a four-sided football stadium before 2026?

Matthew Pitman
81 Posted 03/02/2017 at 09:08:27
I'm also concerned about the impact of an athletics track on the atmosphere. However, unlike Man City and West Ham, we'll have a great deal of notice and will (hopefully) be able to build the stadium as a Football Stadium (temporarily) adapted for Athletics.

West Ham and City were built as Athletics Stadiums converted for Football.

Fingers crossed we end up with a Stadium fit for Evertonians and not a multi-milllion-pound compromise!

Liam Reilly
82 Posted 03/02/2017 at 09:10:40
I don't really understand the issue with the 'Athletics track'.

It's a simple problem to overcome with modern technology; whereby the first dozen or so rows are retractable and BOOM! Running Track!!!

Does anyone seriously believe that a £300 Million modern stadium couldn't conceive that at the design stage?

Gordon Crawford
83 Posted 03/02/2017 at 09:35:09
Didn't the architect say that the new stadium wouldn't be bowl shaped? Well, you need a bowl shaped stadium for a running tract to be incorporated.

Unless they have changed their mind, I think we will be alright. If not though then I would be seriously worried about the atmosphere.

Ray Robinson
84 Posted 03/02/2017 at 09:40:22
Liam (#82), even with retractable seats, how would you end up with a four-sided football stadium as opposed to an oval stadium with seats much nearer to the pitch? I have yet to see an athletics track in a four-sided stadium.

I know with modern technology you can achieve almost anything but I doubt whether the owners of EFC are going to finance a complete state-of-the-art stadium?

Paul Avery
85 Posted 03/02/2017 at 10:14:12
Colin (#68) that's so very important that they go down that route, imo.
Patrick Murphy
86 Posted 03/02/2017 at 10:18:44
According to the Football Supporters Federation (FSF) 90% of 1,400 Evertonians surveyed by the Everton Supporters Trust (EST) show that they want to see safe standing introduced at Goodison Park or in a new build stadium. Additionally, 92% of respondents agreed that supporters should be given the choice between sitting and standing at the match.

So it would seeem that those calling for some form of safe standing on this thread are far from alone.

Link

Ralph Basnett
87 Posted 03/02/2017 at 10:31:20
Stephen (20), someone with a little foresight.

We all jump in with glasses half-empty, that we don't want a running track, but have your glass half-full for a second and pause.

If this new stadium was to be built many years before the games but with the opportunity to convert temporarily to give it a running track, then the designers can work from this, and not as Man City and WHU where they had the track issue to overcome after they took the stadium on.

We would be in a really good position if the designers can pull it off that they can build a stadium for football but for a one off converted to a running track and then back to a football stadium after for ever. We would get lots of grants to build, reducing the clubs outlay and earn pennies from the games for the club and the city – win, win, win.

And all of this for the inconvenience of converting our front 20 temporary rows into a track and then back to 20 permanent rows seems little sacrifice for a gleaming new stadium on the waterfront, selling us to the athletic, football and cruising world.

Sorry, doubters, but its a no-brainer for me, bring it on!!!!!!!

Tony Abrahams
88 Posted 03/02/2017 at 10:33:42
Remember Rotterdam in 1985? Mostly all seats but two standing sections, behind both goals. People want to stand-up, although I'm too old for it myself personally!
Gordon Crawford
89 Posted 03/02/2017 at 10:39:35
Ralph, that's all good in theory. But the stadium dimensions would have to be huge. Adding a running track later would just complicate things. It would still have to be a bowl-shaped arena with stands too far from the pitch.
Jay Wood
90 Posted 03/02/2017 at 11:15:48
Ralph @ 87,

I can understand Anderson throwing the bait of receiving grants into the debate to help fund a new stadium build for Everton. Nothing wrong with that and it has been shown (with both good examples – Man City – and bad examples – WHU) that a stadium originally built with an athletics track can be converted to a footy stadium.

However, the overriding question for me remains a very obvious and simple one.

Pause and think yourself. Consider the chronology of all this.

We know for a fact designers are working on designs for a new Everton stadium. How can they possibly start to come up with design ideas with so many shifting unknowns?

We are now at the start of 2017. The hope is Everton confirm and start the construct of a new stadium THIS year, or at the latest, 2018. Potentially, we could be playing in a new stadium by 2019-20.

The Commonwealth Games Anderson is targeting are in 2026 - TWENTY-FRIGGING-TWENTY-SIX!

Nominations for the host have yet to be submitted.

The English preferred city will only be named in 2018.

The actual host will only be selected in 2019.

By 2019 Everton could potentially already be in a newly constructed stadium, or as damn as near it.

How can Everton begin on definitive designs for a stadium, begin to construct a stadium whilst also having half an eye on the city of Liverpool possibly being the nominated city for the UK to stage the games, and then possibly being selected as the chosen host?

And even if the club and city jump through all those hoops, where is the logic in constructing an Everton stadium with the intention to accommodate a running track for 2-3 weeks in the (maybe!) summer of 2026?

How will the stadium look in potentially the 6-7 years before those brief games (maybe!) take place?

And how will the stadium look after the (maybe!) games take place? Why give yourself that headache of refurbishing the stadium all over again just 5-6 years into your occupancy of a new home on so many maybes?

Now modern engineering – as the excellent example Patrick gave of the Singapore stadium – can come up with fantastic solutions. But all come at a cost.

A stadium move has to be bang on the money to work.

Anderson's comments yesterday leave this particular poster confused as to what the council's and the club's intentions are.

Peter Gorman
91 Posted 03/02/2017 at 11:49:33
Who even watches athletics??
Gordon Crawford
92 Posted 03/02/2017 at 11:54:11
Lots of people, Peter. That's why they have the Olympic Games, the most watched event in the world. 😜
Ray Roche
93 Posted 03/02/2017 at 12:30:50
Football is actually a "recognised" sport in the Commonwealth Games set up, as is Golf, although they've never been included. Maybe, with the global appeal that football now has and the success of golf in the Olympics, the Commonwealth Games committee are considering introducing football (and golf) into the 2026 games.

It would certainly increase the Worldwide appeal and therefore increase advertising revenue. And that's what would be welcome, after all, they usually run up a debt for whichever country hosts them. Allegedly.

Ray Robinson
94 Posted 03/02/2017 at 12:33:37
If we were building a stadium for the Olympic Games, it might be worth considering an athletics track but we are talking about the Commonwealth Games here, a competition which has been devalued as much as the FA Cup. There might not even be a viable Commonwealth by the year 2026!

Nobody has explained how you can have an intimidating four-sided stadium constructed near to the pitch, incorporating a running track. I've thought of two solutions both of which are implausible – either the athletes make 90 degree turns while competing or we have whole stands that are retractable!

Purpose built football stadium or multi-purpose oval bowl. They're the only two options, in my opinion. I totally agree with Jay Wood.

Eugene Ruane
95 Posted 03/02/2017 at 12:34:41
True, Gordon (#92), the Olympics is a big deal (a lot more than just athletics too) but I believe there's a big drop off in interest after that.

I can understand (ish) the interest in the Commonwealth Games for Brits living in the old 'British Empire' but now, to me, it just seems... um... odd and pointless.

"Come on England, let's really stick it up The Cook Islands, Tuvalu, Norfolk Island and Nieu!"

It's not probable (I don't think) but certainly possible that by 2026, the entire thing is seen as just an excuse for the wealthier (and whiter) nations to pick up medals by beating 'countries' less able to compete. (nb: although maybe I'm wrong and Grenada have a couple of dead good, international standard velodromes there.)

I watch a lot of the Olympics but very little of the Commonwealth Games.

To be honest, an event that seemed big when I was a kid, now looks rather tatty.

Rob Halligan
96 Posted 03/02/2017 at 14:03:58
Hampden Park hosted the 2014 Commonwealth Games. They raised the entire surface of the stadium by two metres, removed the first eight rows of seating, reduced the size of the playing area, and put an eight lane running track all the way round.

The only thing I can't remember is, did it have a smaller type of running track round it before the Commonwealth Games? If so, then the terracing would be a lot further back than most on here want.

Anyway, the following link includes a video which shows how Hampden Park did the changes....

http://www.itv.com/news/2014-03-12/time-lapse-video-shows-hampden-parks-transformation-ahead-of-2014-glasgow-commonwealth-games/

Andy Riley
98 Posted 03/02/2017 at 16:00:31
Why not sell Goodison to the council so they can mothball it for any Commonwealth Games bid in 2026? It could then be re-developed for use by both ours and Liverpool's U23s, Ladies etc. Makes perfect sense.
Peter Gorman
99 Posted 03/02/2017 at 16:34:55
Gordon @92, most people watch the Olympics for the curling or the horsies.
Ray Robinson
100 Posted 03/02/2017 at 16:43:04
Andy, I really don't want to come across as condescending but no it doesn't - on so many levels. You were only joking - weren't you?
Steavey Buckley
101 Posted 03/02/2017 at 17:14:30
Andy (97) Everton should keep Goodison park when Everton leave for the new stadium yet with all the stands reduced in size to accommodate the Everton under 18's and under 23s modest support. Instead of playing their games in less favourable circumstances.
Tony Sullivan
102 Posted 03/02/2017 at 17:32:31
Thanks Bill (73) I appreciate that, but when he thought he would win the Metro Mayor nomination, Anderson said he would abolish the post, he lost and has decided to stay on.
The reality is that the power and influence will be in the hands of the Metro Mayor, likely to be Steve Rotherham.
Anderson will be a busted flush.
Alan Unsworth
103 Posted 03/02/2017 at 18:54:10
Those who are rightly concerned about the running track issue at the proposed new stadium and if we get the 2026 Commonwealth Games they can hopefully be reassured by what I seen today. At the Scottish games two years ago they used Hampden Park as one of their stadiums and what they done was use a temporary structure to introduce a track.

They built it up to cover the lower seating level and when the games finished it was taken down to leave the pitch undamaged. Today I seen the video how it was done and they used time lapse photography and the result was amazing! I haven't got the links but if you Google it you will find it eventually... It's well worth a look!

Rest assured, there'll be no permanent running track at our new Ground!!

Ralph Basnett
104 Posted 03/02/2017 at 19:18:39
I think a lot of people here have to be realistic, do we want a new stadium on the docks that may have to temporarily accommodate a running track for 2-3 weeks.

Or the alternative of a cheaper option in Croxteth?

If it is sold to the people as being a possible to be temporarily changed for the games and we get the docks that is the way we should go, or lets be stubborn, get one in the outskirts of the city and basically give the city to the shite?

Still a no-brainer, huge stadium on the docks that may have to be changed temporarily for 2-3 weeks for the Commonwealth Games that the city still has not won the right to hold.

If this is an option that Moshiri wants to have that is his prerogative and if it helps both financially and with a location once again a no-brainer.

Now that we have a realistic chance to get the stadium on the docks we just seem to want to fuck ourselves over, Kenwright did it for the first docks stadium, lets not do it to ourselves by not accepting that their may be a slim chance that we may have to accommodate a running track for 2-3 weeks to give us the prime location that may put us on a worldwide map for oval instead of square – What will supporters do if, even without a running track, Moshiri decides his hard-earned money is building an oval stadium... not attend? Then maybe you are not the supporter you think; we should be thanking this man for GAMBLING on us, and let him have his reins

But we can talk about this forever, until we see plans in a location that is yet not decided.

Will Mabon
105 Posted 03/02/2017 at 19:38:03
The interesting discussion above has covered just about everything relevant. It's good to hear everyone's thoughts and views.

Personally I don't want to contemplate the thought of forced accommodations of other sports/activities, or sickly "Partnerships" with outside interests.

There are many changes being mandated upon life, society and its elements now, including the sure-as-the-day-dawns starting requirement of potential massive profit, as opposed to ensuring continuity and organic growth of an asset, supported by enough profit.

Things are going to continue being changed (as compared with changing) at a phenomenal, accelerating rate. The details of where that may go is a whole other subject.

I'm pretty sure though, our future should not depend to any meaningful degree on a bloody running track. It's a total hassle, and the very best of solutions would plonk a very high cost onto someone for a few dozen hours of running. If the Games in their forms are now so commercially slick and viable, then let their suave financial gurus deal with that independently away from football.

Some things are still sacred, for now, and on this subject I also feel the emotional angle. This is Everton Football Club. OUR stadium to OUR design. If it can prevail as a stand-alone commercial operation into the future. If not, redevelop Goodison Park. And yes, I'm aware of the parking and other limitations.

Will Mabon
106 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:01:44
"What will supporters do if, even without a running track, Moshiri decides his hard-earned money is building an oval stadium... not attend? Then maybe you are not the supporter you think, we should be thanking this man for GAMBLING on us, and let him have his reins."


Now, now, Ralph. We are all entitled to our opinions. Should it ever come to people shunning an (hopefully unlikely) oval ground, that would be their prerogative, not a measure of their support.

Also, once we supporters are through paying homage to his beneficence, perhaps Mr Moshiri should then thank the generations of supporters, who for over a century have ensured this club is here – hence giving him the opportunity to likely benefit handsomely on his investment. I doubt it's much of a gamble.

Pat Kennedy
107 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:11:20
Who can answer these questions:

1. If we want a new stadium in the Docks, within the next 2-3 years who exactly is going to pay for its construction?- I'm no expert but the RS just spent 𧵎M on their giant main stand so what does does building 4 new ones cost?

2. Peel are not a registered charity so who is going to buy the land from them, on which to build said new stadium?

3. Does anybody know how much time/cost is needed to clean up & fill in a huge water-filled derelict dockland area and make it a safe place on which to build?

Sounds great, this paradise on the Mersey, but I drove past it last week and it looked like the end of the earth to me – it's not just the stadium that's the issue, its the entire transport and facilities environment needed to safely support 50k people turning up.

As for getting tied up with the Commonwealth Games and needing that to kick-start anything, steer clear. We have to be focussed on what we need – but can we afford it?

Will Mabon
108 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:13:11
Rob (post 96), and Alan (post 103):

Looking at that link, the "Before" pic further down from the video shows Hampden to be quite a pronounced oval shape. Looks more so than I've ever noticed on screen, but not what I'd want for us, too far from the action.

Will Mabon
109 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:35:42
Pat, recent stadiums around the globe have been in the £400 million to £1billion range.

I had a quick shufty around there before Christmas, it's a tip for sure, but what's seen is not the problem. Mega ground works needed. Ground works are expensive. Complicated large ground works, exorbitant... before even thinking about the useable structure. They'll have done at least a bit of basic consultation to even consider the possibilities, but it won't come cheap.

Can we afford it, is the question. I guess most things are "Affordable" if everyone potentially involved is prepared/able to structure things to suit financially, over the necessary term.

Alan McGuffog
110 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:48:37
Pat... the answers to those questions have quite intrigued me likewise. Seems like loads of people are getting their undies in a twist over four stands v oval, safe standing, running tracks.

I've said before that I would LOVE us to move to Bramley-Moore Dock but I still think we'll end up in Gillmoss. Sweet Jesus, let me be wrong.

Laurie Hartley
111 Posted 03/02/2017 at 20:53:55
I am surprised Shaun Traynor's post at 39 hasn't received more comment.

Dortmund's stadium is fantastic, Shaun, but I dream of the day when we play them there and they have to come back to our place that looks like this (at Bramley-Moore Dock) for the return.

Link

Regarding the perceived problem of filling the dock in - why bother?

The first thing that happens when someone starts construction on a multi storey is to dig a dirty great big hole for a car park to accommodate visitors to the building.

Why can't we convert the dock into an underground car park do with of course an access from the river – "The Mersey Gate" and mooring for Bill's speedboat.

I've got too much time on my hands.

Will Mabon
112 Posted 03/02/2017 at 21:29:19
"Why can't we convert the dock into an underground car park do with of course an access from the river – "The Mersey Gate" and mooring for Bills speedboat.

I've got too much time on my hands."


Good stuff, Laurie... and submarine access a la James Bond movie, with a fast shuttle elevator straight to the Director's lounge.

There was a whole town's worth going on beneath the World Trade Center, trains and roads in and out, as one example. It's all possible, but... £££.

John Keating
113 Posted 03/02/2017 at 21:57:53
Don't see what the problem is. We can build our new 4-sided ground in the middle of a track. All the field events could be held on the pitch.p>The 1,500m could be one lap.... Simple.

Laurie Hartley
114 Posted 03/02/2017 at 21:59:23
Will - regarding the £'s -

Link

Keep an eye out in the papers for his tie turning blue.

Steven Telford
115 Posted 03/02/2017 at 22:28:55
Hear, hear, Shaun (#39) ... that's the message the board need to hear!!!!
Will Mabon
116 Posted 03/02/2017 at 23:02:22
Nil Satis Nisi Oligarch
Laurie Hartley
117 Posted 03/02/2017 at 23:13:22
Ali Ali Ali - oli oli oli
Steavey Buckley
118 Posted 04/02/2017 at 19:47:16
The atmosphere at Goodison today does prove why a four-sided new stadium at the docks is far more preferable to an arena, because a four-sided ground is closer to the pitch for the fans to be heard more on the pitch.
Tony Williams
119 Posted 07/02/2017 at 13:17:19
It has to be our ground and a football ground full stop. Possibly on the lines of The Old Lady.
David McMullen
120 Posted 11/02/2017 at 12:14:00
I caught this article late; it has been followed by a much more in depth article which is a great read.

I would add about the Commonwealth Games and athletics track – don't fret: if it happens, it will be a temporary alteration to the stadium. Our ground will be 100 percent built for us, built for football. Anything else would cause mayhem.

I am a big fan of the Lucas Oil Stadium. The stadium isn't a bowl, it's not quite Goodison but then there never will be unless we propose to build a replica.

The dock it has to be. I think things we need include a 60,000 plus capacity, a retractable roof, and possibly retractable front seats like Singapore.

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