Everton were seconds away from a massive victory at Old Trafford but they couldn't hold out against a late onslaught from Manchester United.
The Blues were leading by Phil Jagielka's first-half goal but had spurned chances on the counter-attack to kill the game before Ashley Williams stopped a goal-bound shot by Luke Shaw and handed Zlatan Ibrahimovic the chance to earn a point from the spot.
The three points would have taken Everton level on points with United in the table and put them back in the mix for the top four but had to settle for a solitary point when the Swede successfully planted his penalty past Joel Robles.
It was rough justice on the Spaniard who had preserved the Blues' lead in the first half with two excellent saves that denied Daley Blind and Ander Herrera.
Ronald Koeman reverted to a back four to face the Red Devils, with Matthew Pennington dropping from the XI that started against Liverpool on Saturday. There were recalls for Kevin Mirallas and Gareth Barry while Joe Williams was on the bench with Jonjoe Kenny.
The Blues started strongly, looking far stronger in the altered shape from the derby but it was United who had the first genuine opening when Ibrahimovic had a sight of goal but was denied a goal by a brilliant saving challenge from Ashley Williams.
Everton settled into a pattern of consistent possession that increasingly unsettled the home fans and Mirallas went close with a shot from a tight angle that David de Gea blocked behind for a corner.
From that set-piece, Williams looped a header into the six-yard box and Phil Jagielka took advantage of hesitant goalkeeping to flick the ball between De Gea's legs to hand Everton the lead.
Jose Mourinho's side were stung into a response and when Mirallas inexplicably pulled Jessie Lingard down on the edge of his own penalty area it set up a direct free-kick opportunity for Daley Blind.
The Dutchman executed a well-placed effort that looked as though it might sneak inside the post but Joel Robles leapt to his left to make a save before colliding with the upright. Ander Herrera seized on the rebound but he could only fire it off the crossbar.
Six minutes later, Romelu Lukaku tried to go it alone but saw his shot from distance blocked and Davies's powerful first-time effort hit Mirallas on its way to goal.
Robles was called into action again five minutes before half time but was equal to Herrera's shot, flying to his right to fingertip the shot wide.
Everton started the second half on the back foot and as the contest became more fractious, Paul Pogba headed off the bar from a free kick after Gareth Barry had checked Marcus Rashford.
Ibrahimovic looked to have levelled with 19 minutes to go but his header was chalked off for offside while there was an unpunished pull on substitute Pennington as the striker headed in from close range.
Koeman's men had chances to kill the game on the counter attack but their execution and ball retention was poor, allowing United to maintain ceaseless pressure on the Everton back line.
Marouane Fellaini knocked a shot wide and then hooked over after Robles had failed to punch clear yet another cross while Lukaku's burst down the right ended with De Gea denying him at the near post.
Everton were clinging on as Ibrahimovic spurned what seemed like it might be United's last clear-cut chance when he headed Rashford's cross over but when the ball was lumped into the box one last time and Luke Shaw rattled a shot towards the bottom corner, Williams clearly handled with an instinctive reaction and was shown an automatic red card, Ibrahimovic lashing home from the spot to tie the game at the death.
Kick-off: 8pm, Tuesday 4th April 2017
Referee: Neil Swarbrick
Last Time: Manchester United 1 - 0 Everton
Everton: Robles, Holgate, A Williams, Jagielka, Baines, Barry, Gueye, Davies, Barkley (80' Calvert-Lewin), Mirallas (76' Pennington), Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Stekelenburg, Kenny, J Williams, Valencia, Lookman.
Full details: ToffeeWeb match page
Reader Comments (299)
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1 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:09:36
2 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:09:51
3 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:23:36
Valencia has looked lively and can possibly count himself a little unlucky not to make the starting XI.
4 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:23:45
I hope Ronny is bold and uses his subs to win the game when or if needed, COYBs!
5 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:28:00
6 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:34:05
7 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:48:12
8 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:48:54
9 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:50:47
4-5-1 suits this game.
10 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:51:23
Pitiful. But if we do win...
11 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:52:07
12 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:04:19
13 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:04:52
As for the Barkley dissenters, I hope he shuts them up again tonight. C'mon you blue boys!
14 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:44:50
15 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:50:29
If we try and contain this it could backfire... we need to play for more goals.
Let Valencia have a run out.
17 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:01:15
United weren't going to be overrun constantly so fully expected them to have a lot of possession in the last 20, but we need to stop retreating so deep.
Still looking threatening though. Amazing what starting attacking players out wide will do. Mirallas is a threat from there and when he drags his man inside he leaves room for Rom.
Hopefully more of the same, but need to get our foot on the ball in spells.
18 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:18:44
19 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:32:47
20 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:34:37
21 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:35:10
22 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:13
23 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:23
24 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:23
25 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:53:21
26 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:55:48
27 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:56:16
I wonder who he'll use as a distraction this week.. Mourinho's hamster?
Pathetic and senseless substitutions.
28 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:56:46
29 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:57:52
30 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:59:37
31 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:00:59
32 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:01:13
Everton probably didn't do enough to win the game but inviting pressure with little or no outlet was not for the first time the manager's fault.
33 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:08
If your first reaction to that performance is to be critical, there is simply no helping some of you.
A thoroughly enjoyable game.
34 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:24
The amount of counter-attacks we had and we put him on instead of Lookman. Ridiculous decisions, Koeman; stand up and take responsibility.
35 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:26
36 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:44
I referred to Klopp simply because his mentality is to go for goals everywhere hence the reason why they won at Chelsea twice under him and scored 4 at Arsenal and 4 at City last season.
We will never win at a top ground again with this bottler's attitude.
37 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:51
Williams fell on his sword to block a certain goal. The subs weren't ideal but looking at the bench we didn't have much in reserve. As for Calvert-Lewin, Koeman sees him in training every day so I'll trust there is a method to his madness.
38 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:03:16
Great performance from Williams, Jagsielka and Barry. Mirallas unlucky to be subbed but easy to see what Koeman was doing in stopping the overload down their left hand side. Hold on for another 30 seconds and it's a clever sub; we didn't hold on and he's a cunt.
Happy overall with the performance. Rom and Barkley not good enough in their hold up play. I would have subbed Ross and left Kevin on.
39 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:03:28
40 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:17
41 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:23
Of course, this is Everton and you knew they would blow it and Robles had that shot covered. Very disappointing feels like a loss.
42 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:50
43 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:54
44 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:05:31
So annoyed by the last 2 games. So avoidable. Bottle gone against the RS again and inexplicably give the Mancs the initiative when leading and properly in a game. I fucking hate football at times and hate the way Everton continually let you down. Completely fucked up my week.
45 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:06:40
Given Man Utd's history of jammy late goals and ours of last-minute heartbreak, there was only ever going to be one outcome... and so it transpired! Will we ever have a manager who will let the lads have a go against the big teams and not just try and pull up the drawbridge if we get our noses in front???
Seriously wasted opportunity against one of the most toothless Man Utd teams in years...
46 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:06:53
47 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:07:37
It's a sickening end, but in reality 7th is probably our lot for this season and most of us would have taken a point beforehand. Williams getting a straight red means we've got one senior centre-half for three games now. That's more of a concern.
48 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:08:38
In my humble view, gutted, but all-in-all, EFC, put on a good show, and we could have been 2-0, at half-time if Lukaku had put in the obvious easy pass to Mirallas.
All-in-all, I'd say that tonight's game showed that there's not much difference between them and us; we tried to play and they resorted to type and huffed it.
Ashley Williams played a blinder as did Jagielka, Robles and Barry was immense.
A bit more guile and we'd have been in well ahead by half-time. The kids done well and will take a lot from this game. A good draw... now for The Foxes. The season is ours to make!
49 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:08:45
When Calvert-Lewin came on, it was 10 v 11. All he did was fall over and cough up possession. In what way is he better than Valencia? Baffling.
But the score was fair. You can't play 45 minutes in your own half against a team with Ibrahimovic and expect to not concede.
50 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:09:08
Koeman knows more football than I ever will but I just don't get the Mirallas substitution and then Barkley when I think young Davies should have been the one to come off.
But what annoyed me more than anything was having to listen to so-called impartial pundits / commentators willing Man Utd to equalise. They're all a bunch of total ball-lickers of the highest order.
51 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:09:30
Unfortunately Koeman didn't have the personnel to do it. Mirallas should've stayed on.
52 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:10
Man Utd were shit scared of Mirallas, he could have got us a second goal but no Koeman shits out and goes all out defensive.
You could have put a penny to a pound on these two results , sane as last season, a defeat at Anfield followed by another fucking hard luck story against Man Utd.
Honestly it never changes, we had a fantastic chance this season to sneak into the top four but again we flunk it.
I don't want Europa League â€“ I fucking hate Thursday and Sunday football. It just gives the manager another excuse for bad results.
For the millions he's had he's made one good signing Schneiderlin, jury still out on Lookman, Bolasie, Williams shit and don't think Gana is as good as everyone thinks; decent but nothing more than a stopper.
Failed to address the lack of creativity, no real cover for Coleman or Baines and central defence bare. But most worryingly his mentality smacks too much of David Moyes.
53 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:46
54 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:47
As said above, the substitutions robbed us of any guile or skill and I am afraid Lawrence Llewyllyn-Bowen is just not up to it - talk about rabbit in the headlights.
Lukaku wanted any glory going all for himself, shooting whenever he got the ball in the first half and then having 3 good runs on goal in the second and not managing one shot. Definite proof that it's not all about lack of service.
I was disappointed with young Tom Davies as well, I did not see him touch the ball in the second half and he seems oddly one-paced when jogging around the pitch.
Jags MotM by a country mile.
To be honest, we did not deserve the win, but it would have been nice to sneak it.
55 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:12:29
You can argue about the substitutions but would it really have made a difference keeping Mirallas on? I would, though, have brought on Valencia rather than Calvert-Lewin because I think that might have given us an edge at the end.
Yes, of course, there were moments when Lukaku and Barkley, in particular, should have done much better but this was vastly better than Saturday.
Barry was absolutely magnificent and Holgate showed what a very fine defender he's going to be. Jagielka and Williams also excellent Holgate or Pennington at centre back on Sunday. I'd prefer Holgate against Leicester.
This season now is about enjoying ourselves and playing with some flair and confidence. It's what we need to see away from home next season.
56 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:12:49
He gets ٤M/year. I'll offer to do his job for 10% of his salary, and promise In my contract not to make tactical decisions away from home that demonstrate fear and futile containment.
Come on Everton, try me out for 𧼐k for a season, what have you got to lose?
57 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:15
Lukaku was awful in his decision making and for me cost us the game, Mirallas writing a postcard while waiting for the pass for one on one with De Gea.
Barkley? What an infuriating player he must be for a Manager? Enough said on him on tonight's showing.
I nearly forgot: Holgate played beyond his years, well done.
58 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:20
This club never learns from its mistakes so expect more of the same next season, no silverware and no derby match victory. Everton, aren't we?
59 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:49
If Lukaku receives another pass like the one Calvert-Lewin gave to him towards the end, then I have no complaints with him wanting to leave. That was a pass from a player with serious issues.
A few weeks ago, the upcoming Leicester match would have been penciled in as a win. I'm still not in the pessimistic phase, but Jags is now our only fit, available senior centre-half for the next couple of weeks. Going to be interesting.
60 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:15:30
61 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:15:52
63 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:17:29
64 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:09
Feel bad saying this but I feel we could have won it, if Lukaku, had been less greedy, when there was player's in better scoring positions. At least two with Barkley and Mirallas, better placed.
And when he as the ball taken off him, he just stand there looking pissed off.
What the hell was Mirallas taken off for? Surely he was our outlet.
65 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:21
I'm a big fan of The Ronald but couldn't agree with the Calvert-Lewin sub. He is off-form and was ineffective again. Valencia has the nouse to make a difference.
Jags and Barry played very well tonight. We could have done much more with our breakaways.
66 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:53
If there is a God, I'm putting a contract out on him!
67 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:19:22
Don't forget, we got a late penalty at Goodison so hey ho... But taking Mirallas off and bringing Pennington on was just baffling. They were ripe for the taking on the break and for me Mirallas looked a threat all game.
I hope no one comes on here and tries to defend Lukaku because, once again, he was shit. His control of a football is atrocious and I don't know how many moves broke down when he got the ball.
Also Calvert-Lewin on for Barkley... No, I don't think so. I can't see anything in the lad that makes me think he's going to be a player.
A fair result when you consider how deep we went in the last 20 mins but, with them negative subs, what did we expect? A much better showing than Saturday but still feels like a defeat after that late kick in the teeth
68 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:19:30
Hopefully he gets his wish this summer.
69 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:20:28
So what does this 'master tactician do? Takes off our most dangerous player and brings the kids on again. Result? Backs to the wall, under siege just waiting for the inevitable.
Anyone who thinks we'll win things under this obscenely well-paid buffoon is deluded. He threw away both cup chances, and in the space of 3 days, has thrown away any slender chance of improving our position in the league. Sorry, but we'd have done better if he'd left the team selection to the fans. Fuming!
70 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:21:18
Also I would have liked to see Valencia on instead of Calvert-Lewin, as he seemed to be starting to link up well with Lukaku in games where they have both featured.
The team fought hard, but Koeman's poor choices of substitution cost us the game here and I'm sure he knows it. If he doesn't we're in trouble. Like Martinez all over again.
71 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:22:22
Interesting to hear that Man Utd have only 3 home games left and some difficult ones away. We could still sneak up a place or two.
One lovely moment from Holgate when he stuffed Rashford and then dinked a pass down the wing. Calm and poised he'll make big errors, no doubt, but my word he's going to be a proper Everton player.
Tom needs a rest he's been fantastic for us.
72 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:01
Everton very rarely have been able to do that and with the lack of proper attacking intent in a thoughtful and measured way not the suicide tactics of Roberto we would probably have added a few points to our total over the years.
The fashion of having one striker up front with no proper wingers doesn't really work when you don't have much possession. As Stan says, these guys who pick the team and select the tactics are paid ridiculous sums of money but they all seem to lack common sense and tend to make things worse rather than better on occasion.
73 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:17
And if you watched the last two games and still wonder why Lukaku wants to get the fuck out of a club that leaves him isolated while he has to watch the opposition flood our box with attack after attack, you're either dishonest or off your rocker.
Seriously, you think he'd be sitting up top all alone with only Calvert-Lewin in support if he was at Real Madrid?
74 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:38
Romelu take heed, and I'm sure tonight the lessons of team spirit etc andprofessionalism will strike home.
There's no way in my view the so-called Top Teams will come calling?
Class and style and experience strike to mind, plus respect. C'est la vie...
75 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:57
Played 4, won 1, drew 3. Scored 7, conceded 3.
76 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:02
"If Lukaku receives another pass like the one Calvert-Lewin gave to him towards the end, then I have no complaints with him wanting to leave. That was a pass from a player with serious issues."
I don't quite get the comment... it reads Calvert-Lewin has the serious issues (when we know it's Rom). Calvert-Lewin shouldn't have come on anyway â€“ he has contributed zilch in 2 games now.
Holgate played well after he had settled â€“ just the poor substitutions cost us.
77 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:08
The problem for us is that 3 at the back puts a huge strain on the midfield to close down the ball; Davies, Gana and Barry were working so hard while Barkley and Lukaku mostly just amble around.
Barry and Jagielka were excellent. Baines continues to get back to form, and Holgate was much improved. Williams worked hard and put his body on the line, but he doesn't seem at full fitness to me.
Not sure why Koeman took Mirallas off he's consistently a threat on the break, and is a quick-thinker. Barkley was blowing from half-time. There was a moment soon before Barkley came off when Lukaku was one on one with Bailly, who slid in to concede a corner. Commentators were criticising Lukaku for not picking out Barkley, but Ross was jogging about 40 yards away when if he'd made a proper run and found space then he might have given Lukaku a decent option and received the ball on his own about 20 yards from goal.
Sad to say this but I am finally coming to terms with the fact that Barkley just lacks what it takes to be a top player.
78 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:10
79 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:52
80 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:25:24
The good was effort and heart, the bad was missed opportunities due in part to someone not realising it's a team game, the ugly was the substitutions.
81 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:25:40
Lots of positives from the players but if only Koeman had not bottled it. Valencia instead of Calvert-Lewin and leave all else alone.
82 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:26:21
The tactical switch to 5 at the back was puzzling at the time and left us with no out ball other than Rom. Although I thought Pennington did well when he came on.
The performance was much better than the weekend but I'm totally deflated after that last minute equaliser. Hopefully take this performance on to the match against Leicester and get the 3 points.
83 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:26:52
Poor old Calvert-Lewin is getting it on the live forum. Didn't see much of it so I can't comment but we pray for a hero to emerge from the youth ranks and if they don't do it straight away they get dog's abuse. It's a tough audience alright!
As for Lukaku. My thoughts after the Hull game were that the true measure of where he is as a player would be if we came away from these two games with at least three points and he'd bagged a goal or two. He did neither and didn't influence either game positively. Still he's our main goal threat and will hold us to ransom regardless.
84 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:27:50
Narrow and defensive Ross and Rom look useless. Add an extra body in attack and get into dangerous wide positions they look threatening.
It's not a difficult code to crack is it?
Ron must be a brilliant trainer, because his failure to grasp the most obvious tactical issues is astounding. £6M a year!!!
85 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:28:30
86 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:30:32
87 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:31:23
88 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:32:22
Feels like Ronald is just trying to make a point about having limited options. It couldn't be that though, could it? He wouldn't sabotage this season to make a point for next season?
89 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:32:27
Not a single player around Europe or anywhere else would have looked at that and said "Yes, that club's going places, I want to play there". Instead they'd look at that and say "No thanks, must be a small club. I don't want to do nothing but defend at Old Trafford, lets see if Spurs have a spot for me.".
We just handed them the ball for the last half hour with absolutely no intent to attack. Even when on a counter attack, at one point we stopped and looked around to see if we should continue going forward or just give the ball away and retreat. Well, we decided to retreat. That was pathetic. I'm not proud, I'm embarrassed.
90 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:15
Nowhere near as good as Martinez's first season, more stable than last two season but basically the same as Moyes's final season.
I see progress but I'd suggest with the money available its been mediocre progress.
A lot can be achieved in a managers first season (look at Ranieri at Leicester) and I truly feel it's another massive opportunity missed this season to get top four.
91 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:16
If you watched the last two games you would no longer wonder why so many fans want Lukaku to go.
This is a selfish, selfish player and you have just been given two perfect reasons why the big boys are not interested.
I could not believe my eyes when I saw Lukaku complain about Williams handling it when he had just given the ball up in a Two v Two situation.
Simply unforgivable to just quit and let the United player run away from him. It was the 92nd minute, ffs!!!
92 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:56
What the hell is going on here?
93 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:58
Most of Koeman's signings so far have been questionable and he has spent an awful lot to get fuck all.
94 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:35:56
If Niasse is worse than Clavert-Lewin, he must have only 1 leg. Koeman needs to leave him in the U-21s for a long, long time.
His bizarre substitutions cost us 3 points. No complaints about the pen even though Robles might have had it covered. But a red card? Surely only a yellow, Ashley was trying to head the ball away.
95 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:36:35
I thought the players put in a hell of a shift, and the manager has to make subs to give the team legs towards the end. You could debate whether he should have brought on Valencia instead of Calvert-Lewin, but who knows how it would have played out if Valencia had come on.
There were some cracking performances in there tonight Barry and Gueye were outstanding, and the whole defence had a cracking game.
Even Barkley was much improved, and I thought that was one of Lukaku's better performances for us. I know he didn't score, but he held the ball up when required, and was a nuisance throughout.
A much improved performance from Saturday.
96 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:36:42
The performance was 100% better than Saturday. Barry was superb, my MotM, Jags certainly put a shift in and let's not forget Robles, a few great saves tonight.
Lukaku..? I'm sick of hearing about his lack of service, yes that's true, but when is he going to learn to control the ball better. If he's in the shop window I can't see many coming in for him on his last 2 performances.
Martin Keown spoke some truth there tonight, it's no good him yelling at Williams telling him how to defend if he can't do his own job properly!
97 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:37:38
98 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:37:43
By taking off Kevin and Ross, he has upset two players and probably the rest of the team; which other major or even minor club would put two inexperienced players into the cauldron of Old Trafford when they are under the cosh and when both of those players didn't acquit themselves particularly well last Saturday? What has happened to Lookman?
99 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:38:38
You think Rom quit? Koeman threw away any ideas of attack with 30 minutes to play!! Lukaku was running the channels and taking 3 Man Utd defenders on over and over again. He had nobody, not a single person, up in support.
I actually want him to go now, I'm sick of hearing so many clueless reactions. I want to see who you blame next season.
100 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:40:56
101 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:40:58
Dom might be the future but at the moment he is inexperienced (two very big games for him in a reshuffled team). He is out of his depth. Maybe Rom (the lump!) intimidates him... Shhhhhhhhh!
Dross Barkley sums him up at the moment. His return to form was down to Morgan's excellent performances in midfield. They took the pressure of Ross and he performed well.
Since the loss of Schneiderlin, we seem to have lost Ross as well (on the pitch anyway!)
102 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:41:55
Did you not see him try to cut in and lose the ball. He simply downed tools and he wasn't on his own Calvert-Lewin was with him and it was 2 vs 2.
103 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:42:58
The game has certainly opened my eyes to the possibilities of if we lose Lukaku and Barkley in the summer that it may not be disastrous if we can get strikers that want to score and fight the cause for their fellow forwards.
104 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:43:38
To me, Koeman has yet to do anything to suggest he will break into that top six. Just like I am apathetic towards Lukaku and Barkley because I just think they do not contribute when it matters.
We need an influx of staff and players who are able to go to those above us and expect to win. We do not have the spending power to get those top level players in.
Tonight's equaliser was as inevitable as Saturday's defeat. It is what we do, because we are mentally weak from the boardroom down.
105 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:43:43
"You think he'd (Lukaku) be sitting up top all alone with only Calvert-Lewin in support if he was at Real Madrid"
Lukaku has no more chance of playing for Real Madrid than you or me. If he'd read the game better, we'd have won by three clear goals.
Unless and until he learns to bring others into play and move his arse into top gear more often, he'll continue to frustrate. I'll leave his first touch... tragic for another time.
106 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:44:59
Thank you for making me laugh very loud. Moyes!!!
107 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:45:06
The game management towards the end was shocking. When he made the substitution on about 70 minutes, he conceded the game to a Manchester side that weren't offering anything at the time.
After that, alls we did was sit back and didn't have anything meaningful in their half for the rest of the game. He gambled we would hold on. The substitution should have been like for like for Kev.
As the game moved on we held our own and United didn't press us too much and the opportunity could have been their for a decent counter attack but again he made the wrong substitution by bringing on Calvert-Lewin who offered nothing and leaving Valencia on the bench who is much clever with the ball and has much more pace.
And then in centre midfield, as we got into the last few minutes, our three midfielders where all on yellows and short on energy. I know we only had the young lad on the bench but we could and should have used him so at least someone in there could tackle.
And back to my first point, I can criticise one player: Rom. Again he went missing when we needed him most. Champions League clubs are welcome too him because he just doesn't cut it against good teams.
He moaned about trophies and Champions League, well if he would have scored his chances in the cup last year and turned up in the last two games maybe he could have had both.
109 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:46:29
110 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:47:08
111 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:48:29
112 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:49:05
113 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:49:56
I'm sure players will be lining up across Europe to come to Everton so that they can be left up top on their own against United, Spurs, Liverpool, chasing aimless hoofs from the keeper or defense.
I'm sure they saw one of only three attacking players being subbed for a teenage defender with 30 minutes to play and said, what ambition! I want to play there!
114 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:50:10
I didn't see anyone around here applauding Roberto for having no clue how to see out a victory and constantly throwing away wins with his swashbuckling attitude.
Not sure why Koeman is so smitten with Calvert-Lewin at the moment, nor why he seems to have lost any and all interest in Lookman.
Ultimately, it was a cruel outcome, but not an unjust one. We had our opportunities to put the match away and couldn't do it. But people wanted a show of heart after the derby, if nothing else, and I feel like we got that.
115 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:53:03
I have criticised Williams from day one ,today I felt sorry for him, the replays showed he headed the ball down along his arm, an obvious pen, not really deserving of a red though, after he had sweated blood in defence as did most of our 'geriatrics'.
Jags in particular along with Bainsy, was superb but Davies was clearly off the pace,. I thought Lukaku should have done a lot better, he had at least three clear runs on goal but was tackled off the ball every time.
On the whole the result was correct in that United had a good goal ruled out for a 'non-offside' call, I believe that the offside rule needs addressing to only penalise clear offsides by at least a foot.
After the Anfield fiasco, this result was a breath of fresh air, well done you Blues.
116 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:54:09
The only people who would love to see that are the Sunderland fans!
117 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:54:43
118 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:55:52
If Lukaku ever dreams he is playing for Real Madrid, he would wake up and fall out of bed.
119 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:58:04
120 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:58:22
The hilarious bit yes he was isolated but in one whole half of football field with numerous one on ones with a tenacious but limited defender in Rojo. Not once did he deliver. That's how you take the pressure off your teammates.
His reactions to giving the ball up when every other player was plumbing the depths of their fitness was to throw his hands up and amble back.
Make your own mind up. Mine, love his goals... the rest leaves the sourest of tastes in my head.
121 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:59:27
122 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:00:29
Why couldn't he drop his shoulder and then knock it across the box to the unmarked Barkley? That's what top players do, even if it is easy to see from the side.
123 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:00:32
Now's the time to turn a corner for good! "What's Our Name?"
124 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:01:04
But a great performance with almost a win at a ground where they haven't lost for 30 odd games and without 4 key players. We should not be negative after that performance.
125 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:02:04
126 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:03
For years, people on here hounded Moyes for playing Neville in midfield and said he should give youth a chance in the form of Baxter, Kissock etc. Ditto Martinez for not playing Garbutt.
Now we have a coach who through circumstance is giving youth a chance over journeymen like Kone and Valencia and he and the kids are being crucified.
They're youngsters. Some may make some may not but if I were a youngster reading remarks about Holgate on Saturday or Calvert-Lewin tonight, I'd stay away from this club.
127 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:06
Absolutely laughing me bollocks off!
128 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:28
If Lukaku leaves, I will be gutted. He's a talent that we haven't had in a long time. I wouldn't excuse his attitude, but there was a counter-attack tonight from him and Barkley, and the third man in, Gueye, was about 8 seconds after they'd entered the 18-yard box. That is a long fucking time to wait for options.
People go on and on about supporting Everton and expecting the best, and then some of the same people can't wait to see the back of our best striker in over 20 years.
Ferguson may have been a fighter, but he scored fuck all goals. Campbell may have saved our arse at one point but he scored fuck all goals. Beattie, Johnson, Saha, Jelavic, etc etc etc... all scored fuck all goals in the grand scheme of things.
129 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:34
Loved the aggro and even the bitch fight between Rom and Williams. Some much needed passion at last.
130 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:07:22
131 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:10:14
Takes Mirallas off when the Belgian was looking bang up for it causing them knuckle dragging mutants all sorts of worry.
If you must take Mirallas off, why not Valencia who will put a shift in?
Could have won that 2-0 but drew it 1-1 , story of supporting a glass ceiling club.
132 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:13:48
134 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:15:24
Rom had 3 or 4 attempts on the counter. There were a few balls squared across the box just asking for a tap in. We had a good go at them as the away team, but having gone 1-0 up, it was inevitable we were going to come under the cosh 2nd half.
Pennington did well so that sub justified itself. Having the extra defender on kept them out.
Regarding Calvert-Lewin, I'm yet to be impressed by the lad. But he was brought on as fresh legs for Barkley. The team needed legs at the end there. The only other alternative was Valencia for me, as Lookman is also a baby, and like Calvert-Lewin, he could probably do with at least another year before being considered for the first team. With the injuries we have got, we simply don't have the strength in depth to replace some of our first team players like for like.
We were so unlucky with that penalty. Williams just couldn't resist using his hand, to be fair it was flying into the corner of the net if he hadn't handled it anyway.
I'll take the positives from tonight all day long. Robles was solid, and the defence was brilliant. Gueye and Barry were outstanding, and ,I thought Davies, Barkley and Lukaku put in a proper shift. I certainly felt that Barkley and Lukaku were much improved on Saturday's performance.
Add Funes Mori, Coleman, Schneiderlin and Bolasie into the mix, and we have got the makings of a good squad here, with a good manager. If we can bring in a keeper, a centre-half and a striker in the summer, we'll be top 6 next season.
There's lots to be positive about tonight.
135 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:16:33
136 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:17:12
Much better performance after the Liverpool debacle but Koeman's substitutions were very, very poor.
By the way, this immediate red card, 3 match suspension (can't be true?), plus a penalty is ludicrous. Makes as much sense as Ron's substitutions.
137 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:19:22
Lookman's a funny one. Initially Koeman indicated he'd be in the Under23s and was one for the future. Then right away he was in the first team. Now he's gone.
Did he just have a lucky week in training when he first arrived? Did the good start go this head and affect his attitude in training?
138 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:19:58
Still winding my way home... but my initial comments are that it was a poor game involving two teams that both looked like mid-table fodder. Positives were few. I have never known our away fans so quiet. Because, basically, it was a tense nervy game to watch.
Positives: Davies and Gueye worked their socks off and did a good job.
Our main weakness was good n defence, which looked frail from the kick off. Our saving grace was that their attack is slow and ponderous. Still, they made a number of chances in both halves and looked like they couldn't hit the proverbial barn door.
Negatives were many tonight. I mean, it really was dire.
Williams was losing it with his teammates almost from the start of the second half. Plus there were three bread 'n butter crosses where he lost out to Ibrahimovic. Then lost his head for the penalty which, from where I was sat, Robles would have saved anyway. He is not the answer to our defence. Need shut of him.
By contrast, Jags had a good game tonight. Lukaku was poor. Admittedly he didn't get much service. But when he did get the ball he was selfish. There was one opportunity second half where he broke down the right. Barkley was in acres of space. Didn't even look up. At 2-0 they would have been dead and buried.
The tactics... Well we ended up with 6 or 7 defenders on the pitch at the end. There was no outlet when we did get the ball, and possession was turned over quickly.
Well, at least Moshiri seemed happy as he passed by at the end of the game (I was in the queue waiting for the train). He had a big smile on his face.
Maybe he knows something that I don't. I hope so!
139 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:20:11
In a 'funny way' I'd like to nail my ball bag to the kitchen table then set myself on fire.
140 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:27:51
I don't think many if any posters are moaning about the commitment levels of most if not all of players or that it wasn't a significant improvement on Saturday. Rather it was the way we reverted to defending at all costs and forgot how to keep the ball for any length of time and with little or no hope of building meaningful attacks once Barkley and Mirallas had left the fray.
I could understand a straight red if Williams had have flown through the air and tipped it over the bar with his hand, he tried to head the ball, mis-timed it and reacted by getting his arm in the way definite penalty but not a red card. Replays showed that Robles would probably have got to the ball if Williams had allowed it to go past him it wasn't even a good shot from the Man Utd player but that's life.
I might be wrong but I thought it was Koeman himself who was publicly talking up Lookman, which means that it is even stranger that the lad hasn't had a run out in the last few weeks.
141 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:29:12
142 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:32:07
What BT highlighted about Williams and Lukaku, that tells me all you need to know about how good Lukaku thinks he is. I don't rate Williams, but I hope he decked Lukaku in the changing rooms.
I really hope Calvert-Lewin becomes the player Koeman thinks he is, because I don't see it. That substitution cost us the win, along with Barkley and Lukaku being unable to lift their heads when required. If they could do that, then we are 2 up by half time and the game is done.
Finally, I hated hearing the Everton manager saying he'd have signed to take a point before the game. That's "knife to a gunfight" talk!
143 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:32:13
He is no team player and one thing is for sure, whichever team have him in their side won't win trophies because you need someone who will dig in and work hard for his mates to win in difficult situations, not go missing as he always does.
144 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:33:24
145 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:33:43
World class players, which Lukaku thinks he is but isn't at the moment, know all of their options including the opponent's box and which ones are better. He had me screaming several times tonight when we had men over in the counter attack and he took ridiculous pot shots.
Shoot on sight is something we have been crying out for from shot-shy Everton for years but not every single time, FFS!! Barkley WAS unmarked on more than one occasion.
Answer me this: would Dennis Bergkamp, a genuine world class player, have shot on every occasion or would he have pulled back to a team mate in a better position? If the bar is too high with Bergkamp what about Thomas Muller?
Suarez Lukaku tried to compare himself with Suarez. He is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is because if he had a fraction of that world class player nous we would definitely be sitting 5th above Man Utd tonight.
He is crap from end of March onwards when his dad and his agent tell him how good he is and start angling for a move. Having said that, he is still the best forward we have had in years and I'm glad we have him. Just infuriating sometimes, like tonight.
147 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:34:30
Ross is the most infuriating player since Peter Beagrie in that he seems incapable with the ball at his feet just to run in a straight line; instead he's ponderous, checking back to let the defenders get back.
On another note; this is the first time I've watched a game on BT in a house as opposed to a pub, so I was able to hear the post match comments, and it was like a Stretford end fanzine, with Everton mentioned only in passing.
The Manc chances were analysed, but the Everton chances weren't shown!! The non-footballer analyst only wanted to talk about the Mancs. Fucking disgusting and I certainly won't be parting with my money for that.
148 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:36:29
149 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:36:46
150 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:40:03
The manager has to believe he makes the correct choices otherwise he should not be a manager. Without Coleman, he had to change his tactics as he never had the attacking options the Coleman gives.
We have a small squad to choose from and with the injuries it is getting smaller, maybe he is trying these youngsters to see how they improve in the big games as we made need them if we get into Europe.
If we had held out to the final whistle, I doubt if we would have so much negativity.
151 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:42:34
152 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:43:53
The saves he made from Rashford, although offside Robles didn't know that, and Herrera were superb and would still be being spoken about by BT pundits if De Gea had made them.
153 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:43:59
BT Sport were like that all game. Alan "Kop Ender" Parry et al were willing United to score all game. I turned off straight after the whistle.
Joke Humphrey is the worst Sky 4/5/6 homer presenter on the box. The other teams apparently are only supposed to turn up and take their medicine from the favoured ones.
154 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:44:23
Unfortunately his fanboys will defend him despite deciding not to try in the derby and then just doing what he wanted tonight.
What a pity that a superbly talented finisher and athlete is nothing more than a spoilt brat with an awful attitude.
Personally I'm disgusted in the Everton fans who have indulged him whilst he has continually disrespected the name and reputation of our club.
155 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:46:15
Valencia has no future here, he's a stop-gap; Calvert-Lewin, maybe does.
156 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:46:37
Robles may well have got to the shot if his vision wasn't directly blocked by Williams who then did all he could to give the impression he had headed it. A no-win situation which now leaves us with only one recognised first-team centre-half for the visit if Leicester City.
157 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:52:10
I never listen to the commentary from either Sky or BT, they are only interested in boosting sales of subscriptions and advertising around the globe; therefore they are primed to pander to the biggest audience. Unfortunately, that doesn't include Everton or any of the sides outside of the 'big six'.
158 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:53:24
159 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:55:54
160 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:01:47
A first half performance which was one to be happy with. We yielded very little, they moved the ball at a snail's pace and it made us grow into the game.
I even thought Lukaku won us some ground with free kicks. Mirallas knew we could win why the rest didn't I have no idea.
The second half is on the manager, the negative approach handed them the initiative. Even then with Pogba and Mkhitaryan on the pitch, he didn't have the balls to take off Barkley early enough and subsequently Lukaku.
United played two at the back and rolled the dice. Any decent manager would have worked out one mistake and we were in, game over. Valencia and Mirallas would have had the pace, dribbling and work rate to score and put the game to bed.
His mindset was recalcitrant and staid. Why do we need a point? We needed three.
Holgate, bar one early missed tackle, was excellent. I expect to see him partner Jagielka on Saturday, with Kenny at right back.
Gana was great, Barry survived in a game which was played at his pace, Jags was good but the same goes for him, played at a tempo he liked.
Davies just needs the ball, the lad gains energy from possession. Our tactics in the second half just starved him and reduced him to a shuttle runner.
The manager has in the space of four days dropped the ball here. Yet a growing body of work that stinks when we go away from home.
Plenty to think on.
161 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:03:33
Been to that place many times, Duncan, Bob the Pole, Sheedies penalty miss, Altrincham.
Watched from a pub tonight, full of Man Utd.
Started the game nice and steady, we scored and had chances, defended well, blah blah.
Got to the end and was gutted, sometimes I wish I never bother, they don't bother about me, last weekend was poor, really poor. I can not help myself. And don't want to.
By and large tonight I thought we were good, as I sat there with the United fans screeching their views, I looked at my Everton and just implored that they held on. It is the hope that kills you.
Just gutted, not just for me, but the supporters who went and gave every energy they could to to the team. They went; total respect.
I wish I was a better blue.
Sorry to ramble, no need to reply, just gutted. Thanks.
162 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:05:29
I appreciate your honesty on Lukaku. I am a huge Barkley fan but will admit that he needs to improve certain things in his game especially his decision-making; I am also on record on here saying that I thought he was awful in the derby.
For whatever reason David B and others to be fair will not accept or give out criticism on Lukaku no matter what he says or how he performs, they honestly remind me of Donald jackass Trump supporters, it's always someone else's fault!
As always, Peter, you've put it better than I ever could, I hope he's gone this summer.
163 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:09:31
You always make me laugh with your silly jokes.
164 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:09:57
I'm wondering whether he's simply lost faith in some of the (not good enough) experienced players and has decided the kids are the answer until such time as he finds some quality players.
I can see why he bought Calvert-Lewin on, as we needed someone to hold the ball up. Problem was he didn't really do it. When he did it, he got little help off Lukaku, who was willing to hold the ball and go to the corner flag to eat up time.
If I was Lukaku, I'd be sick of a lack of support. If I was scouting Lukaku, I'd be alarmed at his lack of ball control and game intelligence. If your defence is hanging on in the last few minutes, you keep the ball at all costs, you buy fouls, you drag yourself to the corner flag.
If you're breaking with the ball with two defenders in front of you, you look up and notice your colleague in space instead of blasting the ball into a defender's legs. He won't be going anywhere anytime soon.
Davies had a cracking game for me. He was clearly asked to stop Carrick, which he did well. I marvelled at a young player sticking unselfishly to his task as he did. That's why he stayed on and Barkley was subbed. Tom has far more discipline. He'll get a deserved rest the minute Morgan is fit.
Being frank, they deserved a draw. We weren't robbed, the pressure told. I'm not blaming the back four that played well, I'm blaming the front players who didn't hold the ball up, the manager who took off the dangerous Mirallas, unless he was injured.
The young players, who many on here have screamed for, will have learnt much in the last two games. Judging by some performances tonight, they had learnt from Saturday. Doesn't help us finish higher in the league, but may stand us in good stead for the future if we need a bigger squad.
I'm not convinced Koeman trusts the attacking players, bar Lukaku. This means we're likely to be set up not to lose for this season. It means he's setting himself up for a summer where bringing in genuine creative attacking talent will be key.
Our success will depend on this and it's what I'm going to judge him on.
165 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:11:53
It's clear Koeman likes quick physical players: Gana, Schneiderlin and Davies are going be be a great midfield for the next 3 years.
On tonight, Holgate did really well. Lukaku looked greedy. And Calvert-Lewin sorry to be negative about a young player but he doesn't have pace, touch, composure, strength, can't pick a pass, make runs, press, hold the ball up or get in striking positions. I'm honestly struggling to see what Koeman sees in him as he lost the ball every time he had it.
What's strange is how some players get more leeway than others. Lookman looks really exceptional but lost the ball a few times and we haven't seen him since. Calvert-Lewin seems to get lots of chances.
Bad luck tonight. To be honest, we're going to finish 7th, and looking forward to a major transfer window now.
166 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:15:20
I am absolutely flabbergasted at the support he gets. He is a flat track bully who has never shown any loyalty to our club.
My first season as a fan was to watch Gray and Sharp lead our attack in the team that won the league and ECWC cup He is not a patch on those lads. A more talented finisher maybe but those two would have had him on toast in every other regard especially when it came to the battle.
Yes... we have been deprived of higher level strikers for a long time operating at a budget level getting end of career strikers, journeymen, etc but we paid top dollar for this lad when no one else was prepared to take a gamble.
Shushing a senior player like Williams tonight for daring to question his work ethic is the final straw oh and calling him a supposed vile phrase to Pogba is beyond disgusting.
The team have had enough of him that's pretty clear.
167 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:18:42
168 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:19:25
To hell with all this positivity, it's all pointless and misplaced when our manager either plays the wrong starting eleven (RS), makes idiotic substitutions (MU) or just pisses money up the wall on sub standard players (AW).
I am livid tonight, yet again.
169 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:19:25
170 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:20:12
I'm inclined to agree with David. I have been really disappointed with Koeman recently. Poor tactics verses Spurs and the exact same again against the RS.
The horrible inferiority complex was out in force tonight. We should have been comfortably winning that game from the position we were in. Lets not kid ourselves about a point at Old Trafford being worth it's weight in gold either, this is the worst United side in my lifetime. Not good enough for £6m per year.
It was as if Moyes was in charge the way we simply retreated into our own box once it became clear we might actually win the game. Pathetic game management in taking off Mirallas, our best player, and switching to a back 5 when we were comfortable.
The Calvert-Lewin sub, I have no words. First of all I don't blame the lad in any way shape or form. It's not his fault he has been thrown on but he simply isn't up to it. He might be one day but at present he is a liability. Why not Lookman? He didn't seem to have a problem causing Man City havoc. Or Valencia for experience.
And Lukaku needs to be kept at all costs.
171 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:23:47
Even though Man Utd were able to bring on multi/multi million pound subs they only got back into the game because Ron Koeman effed up with his (by comparison) economically priced subs.
Which raises a point I would appreciate comments on from you fellow insightful ToffeeWebbers. That is, in my view, there are only so many world class players out there at any given time. Most of them are at Barcelona, Real Madrid etc.
Just because a club pays mega bucks for a player does that mean they are world class? Are they automatically better than for example, Everton's relative "bargain basement" purchases.
I don't doubt that in some cases a £50-60 million dollar player is better than say a £20 million dollar player, but not proportionately so.
I personally expect that a top class coach being paid £6 million a year should have the ability to significantly close/bridge that gap.
Not seen it from our recent highly paid coaches. Hopefully Koeman will be the one.
172 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:29:12
Hasn't the game always been discussed in such a way from the very early days in pubs and clubs and dining rooms to the present hi-tech environment? There are as many opinions as there are supporters on some days and we will always have our own thoughts about the players, formations, managers etc etc.
If fans are only to comment on the game without reference to the manager or without looking at how things may have turned out with different scenarios, isn't that taking something away from the discussion?
I think we all realise that the scoreline will remain the same no matter how much we all write about it, but part of the fun is to give our twopenneth worth. It's really not that important as it has little or no affect on the team, the manager or any other employee at Goodison Park, but surely you don't really begrudge us having our say do you?
173 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:33:13
174 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:40:40
He is not a team player, look at the difference in his celebration when he scores versus when another teammate scores, like night and day. Personally, like you, I can't wait for the day he's shipped out.
175 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:45:50
Are you fucking mental? He was the first one jumping on Jagielka's back in celebration at tonight's goal!! Unreal. You're just making it up as you go.
176 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:47:12
Wow, he looked miserable that he didn't score the goal and Jagielka did.
177 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:58:10
Seriously, can't you just one time admit he played shite and deserves to be criticized, I mean what's wrong with doing that?
178 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:58:46
"He will one day play for one of the top clubs in Europe. Whether he needs to do that at the moment as an Evertonian I am not so sure," Osman told Sky Sports News HQ.
"To progress the way Everton are doing, to keep enticing top quality players to come and join the club then the club has got to show its ambition and that usually involves holding on to your best players," said Osman.
"All players want to play in the Champions League but I feel as if he was patient enough and gave Everton a bit more time, the signs are showing that Everton are gradually making those steps."
Yeah, that's clearly Osman saying how selfish Lukaku is and that all he cares about is himself. He's really tearing into him there isn't he, Kevin?
179 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:59:19
Yes, I'm bloody frustrated. But for heaven's sake, we were bloody close to taking all three points.
Williams handball? Genius decision. Now we're yet another defender short. Tool.
180 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:02:23
We were crying out for him to buy at least a centre-backand attacking midfielder in January. We said the selection of kids with hardly or no game time this year at Anfield was suicidal. We were happy to see Mirallas back, but dumbfounded when he was taken off.
So yes, this man is making unfathomable decisions, just like his predecessor.
181 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:04:50
Every single person almost was in shock. And we were right. We handed the game and all attacking to Man Utd with almost 30 minutes to play.
182 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:05:13
I have never once seen you say he was part of the problem in a poor performance or loss, why?
183 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:08:21
Let me know when. We could do that in tandem, like the Morecambe & Wise breakfast sketch.
Better that than have bloody "Eyore" back.
184 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:11:12
The far bigger issue was what Koeman did, how he chose to approach the game when in the lead. That is why.
You imply he's a cancer, with no evidence. You say he doesn't celebrate his teammate's goals, when he most clearly does.
Honestly, because you lie. It's like Fox News and Hilary Clinton with you. No matter what happens your focus goes immediately to him and you make things up to try to match your opinions.
185 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:13:27
I hate football in general now that it's all about money and the top 6. I'm not even sure I want us to be a part of all that shite anymore...
7th will do for me this season anyway as we are just not good enough for the top 6 in football terms or in terms of having a winning mentality.
186 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:14:55
He has hasn't even had one proper transfer window yet and ok 1or 2 of his signings are stop gap but FFS! We all knew this season was transitional and next season will be the one to judge him by.
The kids are getting valuable playing time and for those who think we've blown top 4, your deluded. We where never going to make top 4 and have Europa League virtually guaranteed.
We have been beaten only a handful of times since the new year and by teams who have massively outspent us. Get a fucking grip!
187 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:17:58
I still don't rate Joel but he had a good game, Davies needs a rest, Barkley has no intelligence on the field and Lukaku again was owned by bog standard defenders in a big game.
Mirallas has been treated terribly by Koeman and Martinez, he's our only real flair player who can dribble and beat his man and is constantly subbed and in and out of the team.
Calvert-Lewin is way too lightweight and has no pace. Valencia or Lookman are far better choices than him at the present time.
It almost feels like Ronnie doesn't want to succeed this season because of his 3-year plan.
188 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:26:59
If they are that good, they find a way regardless of the circumstances. Lukaku and Barkley had ample chances in tonight's game to end it as a contest, despite. Isn't that the point, they didn't. Because they're not as good as advertised.
I don't measure them or Koeman against WBA or Hull as we should by most measures be at least 7th and beat those types of teams. The measurement comes in these games. Facts are Koeman got it wrong Saturday and tonight, badly too.
Measuring Barkley tonight, a number of times had 2 on 2 with Rom, he did nothing other than surrender the ball. Rom did exactly the same.
I would argue both Bailley and Rojo are lesser players yet won those battles at a canter.
Sure, Rom celebrated with Jags the most energy he put into anything all night.
189 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:39:03
Mourinho said: "Everton start defending with everybody back so they give us the ball. We open with Luke (Shaw) on one side and Ander (Herrera) on the other and putting the balls in the box."
190 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:41:21
191 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:46:09
193 Posted 05/04/2017 at 02:13:59
I have a feeling that the people that I have named have played football themselves at a decent level and understand the game very well, as it is evident from their posts.
Further, to accuse us of watching an Everton game and focusing only on Lukaku's deficiencies is insulting and preposterous. When I watch any game, Everton's or not, I take in a lot of detail about the entire match, looking at the shape of the team as well as individual performances. It is fundamental to my enjoyment of the game of football.
Lukaku's glaring deficiencies are as plain as the nose on your face (I am of course assuming that you have a nose on your face). Many of us have freely admitted that he is a wonderful goalscorer, but the rest of his game is way below par. This has also been pointed out by his manager and many ex-footballers in the media, so to quote what Osman thinks does not really impress me.
What is most heinous about Lukaku is his total lack of work ethic and team ethic. He plays for himself, when he decides to play at all. You may have seen the opta ratings which show that he is the laziest bastard in the league. I think some of the goalies cover more ground. I think some of the spectators cover more ground.
He is 23 years old. If he cannot commit to running and working hard for the team at this age, do you honestly think this will improve with time? The things that he has to improve are mainly about his attitude on the field. Sadly, this says everything about what Lukaku is.
When he loses possession, he makes no effort to retrieve it, arrogantly believing that this is someone else's job. His movement off the ball is shocking and he often hides or moves away from the ball, making other players look bad. The lack of service arguement bandied about here is not as valid as you may think.
He is not the saviour that many of the deluded on here believe. He is indeed, the false messiah. I agree with Peter who has pointed out frequently that his mentality is more destructive than constructive. Lets hope that he can bang in as many goals as humanly possible from now until the end of the season so that some mug can pay the inflated price that his quality will never match.
194 Posted 05/04/2017 at 02:59:15
That game clearly changed with Koeman's decision to take Mirallas off and replace him with a defender. We all saw that, Mourinho saw that and said so after the match. From that point on, we were in hang on mode, which is not down to Lukaku.
When someone then comes on and says Leon Osman talked about Lukaku being a cancer and only caring about himself, and I can simply Google and pull up Osman's interview from this very week, where Osman says Lukaku will play for one of the top teams in the world and be one of the best, but wants him to stay at Everton a bit longer, you don't see a problem with that? I didn't bring up Osman, I simply replied to a blatant lie. Also, Osman did, in fact, play the game at a very high level. So I do tend to value that opinion.
When someone says Lukaku doesn't really care about his teammates and doesn't much care when they score, and I can simply pull up the YouTube of tonight's very match where Lukaku is literally the first one hugging Jagielka and running away with him in celebration, you don't see a problem with that? Again, all I did was post video evidence to contradict a lie. It's not the first time he made that accusation, and in the past I posted video after video showing Lukaku celebrating enthusiastically with his teammates. Funnily enough, before Kevin had said Lukaku doesn't celebrate his own goals because he's miserable, now he's saying he overly celebrates his goals and not his teammates.
In that match, we had numerous chances on the break but couldn't string the passes together. On other occasions Lukaku sent a ball into the box but we didn't have any numbers forward, only Barkley or Mirallas. At other times Barkley or Mirallas sent a ball into the box but only Lukaku was in the box.
At the weekend, I commented during the Man City v Arsenal match about how when City attack they get five men into the box, meaning the defense can't focus on a single player. This is in stark contrast to our play, where we only have one player in the box, which requires either a pin point perfect delivery or error by one of the 3-4 defenders marking that player.
We had one break during the second half today where Davies had the ball and Lukaku and Barkley were up ahead. Davies was slowly bringing the ball forward and had no clue what to do. Eventually Gana made it forward and the ball was played to him. By this point, all the Man Utd players had gotten back and there was no opportunity to play a ball, possession was simply handed over. It was one of if not the worst break I have ever seen. Barkley and Lukaku never received the ball, despite being in space and calling for the ball, Barkley on he left and Lukaku on the right.
Calvert-Lewin came on and was shocking, he's not ready for this level. Mirallas was having a fantastic game, should never have been taken off. But if he was exhausted and needed to be replaced (which by his reaction he was not) then it should have been an attacking player who was brought on, or at least a midfielder. Instead we brought on a teenage defender who had just gone through a terrible match at the weekend, and from that point on it was United attack after attack.
The defensive solidity and understanding that we had was lost, at one point with Holgate being completely confused as to where he was supposed to be, with the United player getting down the flank completely unmarked.
So that's the game I saw. See how it was much more than simply Lukaku not being worth £90 million? Football is a team game, very dependent on tactics and every player on the pitch.
195 Posted 05/04/2017 at 03:02:09
Have to say, I will never be convinced or agree has to how good Lukaku thinks he is, if someone is prepared to pay ridiculous money for him, please let them take him.
During tonight's commentary, Savage had a go at Barkley for not finding Lukaku with a through ball, Barkley moving down the left, Lukaku going further away from Ross to the right, with three defender's between them, with Lukaku not having the foresight or brain to make a diagonal run, Ross looses ball = Ross gets criticised, Ross isn't the best, neither was alleged expert Savage.
The substitutions changed the game, Davies wasn't his usual self, so to take Kev and Ross before him was a strange decision.
Did anyone else noticed the amount of times Everton played passes to each other that didn't quite have the right pace on them?
196 Posted 05/04/2017 at 03:03:35
Not celebrating a draw, but realistically what do people expect? Go away to Man Utd and expect a result? On what basis? What player lining up for Everton yesterday would Jose want? Maybe Barkley. Possibly Rom, but there is history there. The rest of the team available are decent players but even our stand out new addition (missing through injury) couldn't make the Man Utd team.
It's very easy to sit in the pub and say "missed opportunity" reality is that this was a decent result given the squad available
Regards Mirallas, if he was as good as people think he is, he would be playing. He would score. He will always be one of those players who shines bright once in a while, but never consistently deliver. He has been in and out of the team under the past 3 managers. Coincidence?
197 Posted 05/04/2017 at 04:33:13
198 Posted 05/04/2017 at 04:40:38
199 Posted 05/04/2017 at 05:16:10
I thought The red team which apparently had been assembled at such a huge expense that their bench was more expensive than the blue teams entire squad looked so rattled at times that this observer thought there is not an actual lot of difference in these two sides they red side at times looked almost as good as the blue side at times.
Well you get the gist; this was a great performance by Everton. I congratulate every single player. I congratulate our great manager for getting 100% out of our players by using a tactical plan that evened an unequal playing field. Great job blues, I thought you were superb.
200 Posted 05/04/2017 at 06:14:07
The men in blue worked their tails off the entire match. I had predicted this to be a draw, so not too disappointed with final score. A little peeved at the way the draw happened, but that's football.
As I said, I was extremely proud of the effort put in by all our players, well, almost all of them, anyway. Lukaku must've been pooped by the final whistle. He must've walked for miles; and all that waving and pointing can wear a person out. A bit harsh? Perhaps, but he does tend to go missing for the big games.
I think Koeman took Mirallas off because he was working himself up to a red card. There has been a lot of criticism of the manager for replacing him with Pennington, but Man Utd, with their quality, were always going to amp up the pressure in the second.
Hell, it almost worked. If it had he would have been a genius, instead of the brain dead twit a lot seem to believe he's turned into. He's neither. We have nearly half of starting 11 injured. Our squad is really thin. Trying to fill the holes with bench players and kids, against a side as deep as United's, was an almost impossible task.
201 Posted 05/04/2017 at 06:47:08
Have you ever noticed that we have outspent the teams we have beaten?
Koeman's signings have not been short term they have been shite. This "what do people expect" lark is what keeps us where we are.
We had the game boxed off until honest Ronnie started with his half-witted substitutions. His players were taking the game to them and it was him who lost his nerve.
I'll tell you what I expect. I expect us to manage a game against a team who were reduced to launching long balls into our box. I expect our manager to trust his players and stop acting like the biggest Frankie since Davey Moyes.
You are another one who is falling over yourself to accept the unacceptable.
For the second time in a few days, Lukaku stunk the place out. Under three thousand Evertonians were able to get a ticket, but they were magnificent, out singing 70,000 Mancs. They deserved better than the half arsed performance your hero gave them. At a time when everyone else was digging in, Lukaku was a can't-be-arsed disgrace, no amount of apologising from you can alter that
202 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:31:21
Alan Parry wasn't the commentator, It was Ian Darke.
203 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:34:10
I agree re the attitude of Lukaku, even the mild mannered Baines had a go at him when he never chased a defender who had taken the ball off him. Also he gets his head upon two or three occasions when we counter it's 2-0 game shot.
"We were playing against a team who were reduced to knocking long balls into our box."
Do you not think that may be the reason he brought another centre-half on?
204 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:39:57
New boy to step up to the plate in the big games against the big boys but can go missing if he wants when its not showtime. That way they can cover each others inadequacies.
Either that or buy someone that can do it all of the time regardless of who were playing. That might be an idea.
206 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:08:10
(Sorry, Mike couldn't resist it.)
207 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:23:17
The only reason I can see any sense in withdrawing Mirallas was because he might have been sent off after the virtual assault on him by 3 or 4 Manc players a little earlier.
The ref bottled it and Young should have been sent off â€“ what a complete weapon he is by the way â€“ but the ref bottled an awful lot didn't he?
Some say Mourinho is a genius â€“ I don't think so â€“ his team are bang ordinary and are screaming out for creativity in midfield.
Pogba? Do me a favour, Fergie had him nailed right the 1st time â€“ too slow, not clever enough, shit awareness and a bloody big head.
As for Everton, I thought we were okay, but our counter-attacking leaves an awful lot to be desired. If you wish to play on the counter then, the mobility has to come from your front man â€“ Lukaku is not yet good enough at it â€“ I hope he learns because he will not be of much use in the future if Everton get to a higher level, where the counter is often used.
Good teams sit, stay calm and then hammer you on the break â€“ it's always been the same. I have a little sympathy as the balls into him last night were mostly rubbish. However, he has to learn, same for Barkley, to get the head up and play quicker.
A point will do though.
208 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:31:42
Golden ball and a move is all he is thinking about. I'd rather play Hibbo up front, at least he loved the club.
209 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:32:15
I see Koeman has told the Echo he is going to have a word with him because of his reaction.
"Because that is not a team."
Careful Ronald unless you have a word with Romalu also fans and players might think you are playing favourites.
While I am at it, our current striker went alone for glory when a simple pass to Mirallas, who was in yards of space, would have put the latter in for an almost certain goal.
What's going on there then?
210 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:42:43
Since his refusal to sign a new contract, he looks totally disinterested, and when you need him most in these big games he just goes missing and sulks because no Champions League club actually wants him. Even if he signed a new contract he'll still keep moaning about wanting a move.
Enough is enough sell him in the summer and stop the endless damaging speculation. I'd take 㿞 million, that's all he's worth.
211 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:45:05
Last night and at Anfield he did not put a shift in.. let me elaborate... when a team is under the cosh, the only outlet being a long ball to space or too the lone centre-forward, the only thing you can expect that forward to do is buy you time. Hold and chase.
Last night Lukaku did neither. Not only did he do neither, he frankly committed the cardinal sin of showing he could not be arsed either.. It was clear in the animated post game discussion with Pobga that he was remonstrating about Williams because the defender had had a go at him (rightly) for the lack of effort earlier on. The disrespect he showed to his captain by telling him to "shush" almost triggered Williams to go after him but was held back by Barry.
Martin Keown on the Sky panel said there would be words in the dressing room and it showed that all was not well with the team and Lukaku. I agree.
He is a luxury we cannot afford. Let's be clear: he is a great finisher, strong, single-minded and will deliver goals, the ultimate requirement of a centre-forward. Yet he is work shy, does not do the hard yards when he loses the ball or needs to close down defenders, does not make the diagonal runs to draw defenders away, etc etc.
He went absent without leave last night and, as much as it pains me to say it, he is not going to be around much longer and that's a shame because, if he had the work ethic and showed it in the big games, then he would be outstanding. Sadly until he has that he will be a victim of his own hype.
212 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:52:50
The mistake was to bring on Calvert-Lewin. Koeman probably thought the lad's pace and height might help, but he didn't seem to know where to play.
Lukaku made him look a prick pointing for the pass while running a line too close to him, and then showing contempt for his poor ball. If only Valencia had been introduced instead.
Fantastic defending from Jagielka, Williams and my MotM, Gareth Barry. These three were immense.
Holgate looks a wonderful prospect so cool.
Incidentally, while watching it live on BT I didn't think Robles had an inkling where the shot was coming from and Williams stopped a certain goal. Now if that pen was missed, we would have won, and Ashley would have been feted as the hero who fell on his sword. He had been outstanding all night.
213 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:01:19
One huge disappointment for me last night was the ignorance from Lukaku toward Williams with the "shush" gesture. That is pure arrogance and I have been Lukaku's biggest fan.
It's not the end of the world either and not worth it swaying my judgement but a real man of honour would make that up to people.
214 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:04:25
Problem we have is low expectations. We go to the Mancs and the RS and hope any kind of result/draw is a good result and be thankful we didn't get beat. Well that kind of thinking, acceptance if you like, is exactly why we never win at those places. There is no comeback to the players and staff, no horrible reaction from the fans for yet another substandard performance, just a "well what did you expect?"
Attitudes like "We knew the Mancs would come at us in the 2nd half so better to put a defender on" they didn't actually lay siege to us until we put an extra defender on. With Mirallas on we had a player who looked threatening and capable of causing problems. Without him we looked toothless and just got deeper and deeper.
I'm sick and tired of "plucky litte Everton". I'm sick and tired of people accepting mediocrity and saying it's okay. We will never win with that attitude. Last night, most put in a performance and a win was on the cards. You could argue that we almost got one but we didn't. That goal was coming really. No belief, no going for that killer 2nd goal. Just defend and hope for the best.
To be fair, the defending was 100 times better than Saturday. I don't particularly blame Williams as he was just throwing his body in the way, yes with hands but it was instinctive, can't plan that. If we showed some bottle and not just produce a rearguard action for the last 20 minutes then that may never have happened. Sick and tired of it.
215 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:09:06
216 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:15:54
Just about every pundit that was asked said the same thing a lot of us have said on here and been berated for it, which is basically that his goal scoring is good but he needs to improve on just about every other area of his game.
Some might take the stance that they'll settle for just the goals, thank you very much, but I think last night showed, IMO, that's not the right way to go.
Again, IMO, last night showed that his single mindedness has gone a bit too far and it's at the expense of the team. On at least two occasions, one with Mirallas and one with Barkley, he had quite an easy chance to put them both through on goal with just De Gea to beat. He didn't even attempt to pass to either.
That's fine if you're on fire in that particular game and have already scored maybe, but when you're refusing to close down defenders, giving up when you lose the ball, and only switching on when it suits then it's not.
What was totally unacceptable though, if it is what it seemed to be, was Lukaku actually communicating his annoyance with his captain's displeasure with a member of the opposition.
If I was Williams, I'd be straight into that dressing room after the game and in front of the rest of the team I'd be telling him "You ever shush me again on the field of play when I'm captain and I'll shove my size ten up your arse, you cheeky fucker."
Doesn't matter how good each player might be, or what mistakes either might have made, or how much either is worth, you do not do what Lukaku did and then go and have a moan about it to one of the opposition, for fuck's sake.
I hope Koeman has words with him if he intends to have words with Mirallas because in my book Lukaku's "offence" was far worse than Mirallas's.
I agree with Christine that he IS a victim of his own hype, and I fear nothing will change because he probably looks upon Williams, and the rest of the team for that matter, in the same way he looks at Harry Kane of whom he said, "I don't watch/look at other strikers who can teach me nothing."
217 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:17:27
I agree, Koeman needs to be careful who he has a word with. Certainly not Mirallas.
Koeman needs to have a word with himself, and for a change accept and admit responsibility for his tactical blunder. A tactical blunder that was so predictable from him, and he needs to learn fast, to prevent him doing this again. But of course none of that will happen, the guy seems stubborn and blind to his own mistakes.
218 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:20:06
The fact they are reduced to a game which suited our makeshift defence rather than playing the game of their choice means we have managed them into that, doesn't it? In fact, managed pretty well to be winning with 13 seconds to go having held a lead for over 70 mins.
We are all gutted at the manner of the equaliser but had Lukaku taken, or better yet, set up a teammate for a counterattack second goal it was put to bed and Koeman is a genius. I don't get the subs either (Lookman for Mirallas was the obvious one to me) but it almost worked.
The last clown would have had us collapse second half to a heavy defeat, I'm convinced of that.
219 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:22:53
220 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:26:08
The blame for picking up a solitary point from back-to-back visits to Anfield and Old Trafford should in no way be dumped on his doorstep alone, but if you're continually being billed as a contender for 'best forward in the league', singled out as 'star player' for your club and far from shy at promoting your own abilities, then these are the sort of games in which you surely need to produce something in order to prove it. Instead, we got a continuation of the Pinnochio theme Koeman bizarrely piped up with ("he's a human boy") as Rom, yet again, found himself too easily contained when up against the 'big fish' and reduced to floating about with all the threat of a fucking 'blue fairy'.
The way he appeared to stop working in the second-half last night, when things weren't going his way, was totally unacceptable under any circumstances, never mind when it should be all hands to the pump to protect a slim lead.
Calvert-Lewin has found himself coming under criticism for failing to make any sort of positive impact on proceedings, but if an 㿼m rated player deemed "good enough for Barcelona" regularly fails to do the business (sometimes even going so far as neglecting to do the basics) in such fixtures, then should better really be expected from an inexperienced kid chucked in relatively cold for a baptism of fire?
221 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:32:19
I actually agreed with what Rom said in his interview in regards to not signing a contract as we haven't yet recruited on the level that we were led to believe we would, but his poor work ethic in recent games in grinding on a few people now including his own team mates.
222 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:35:08
Yes, had we not retreated we could have scored again but the way the game was going it is more likely they would have found more space and scored a couple themselves. His tactics were a minute short of working and to have a go at him is ridiculous.
Likewise the criticism of Calvert-Lewin. John Daley has it right- the lad didn' t do much but he is just 20 and was hardly aided by his highly rated partner who should have been telling him how to play his role rather than whinging at Ashley. Calvert-Lewin is getting very unfair stick I recall Graham Sharp making his debut at around that age and the Echo describing him as "totally out of his depth".
Ron sees him every day and knows far better than us what he can do. We must encourage our youngsters not slag them off when they don't play well. Criticise the petulant and lazy players by all means but give the kids a chance to learn rather than destroy them before their career has started.
223 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:37:23
Obviously he has contributed most of our goals in the time he's been at Everton but he's also cost us games when he's not in the mood. I wouldn't have a problem with that if he didn't act like a big fish in a small pond.
It still rankles with me the number of chances he missed in the semi-final last season and the fact that he took the penalty after missing one at home to West Ham.
No one player is bigger than the club but Rom acts like he's our greatest ever forward. He could look to Dennis Stracqualursi for some advice on how to wear the Everton shirt with a bit of pride.
224 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:40:53
Whatever ground Barkley covers, it's always at a snail's pace also, he's hopeless at closing opposition down and shows no interest in it, apart from the occasional crazy lunging tackle. Every game we play with him in, it's like starting with 10 men only shows enthusiasm when we get a corner or free kick then sulks if he doesn't take it.
225 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:42:46
Spot on regarding the kids, they did their best.
226 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:57:48
What is so annoying is that we had so many promising breaks on the counter-attack. Taking Mirallas off was ridiculous. He has pace and is a genuine threat on goal and Koeman sees something we don't?
The defence were great and I can't blame Williams for the penalty.
Get the money for Lukaku and get rid of Koeman. Unsworth and Ferguson will get us to the top.
227 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:58:05
The best turn games on their own and they understand that its a team game. Anyone ever seen Agureo complaining that the pass isn't exactly where he wants it then giving up for the last 20 minutes because he doesn't fancy it. No.
You never see Ibrahimovic totally failing to hold the ball up (or even get it under some sort of control). He buys his team mates time.
I remember an interview with Johan Cruyff, he said that the job of a striker is to get the ball under control, instantly, and however it comes at him. Everything else is showboating.
228 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:13:23
Was he? Ah bollocks there's that argument blown out the water... *LOL*
229 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:17:21
You won't get abuse from me, mate. I've mentioned the same possibility myself. Working with a lone striker only works when the service is top notch and when that striker's playing at the top of his game. Take either factor out of it and you're going to struggle.
I'd personally rather play with two speedy, mobile, tricky players up front which gives much more scope to how we could play. Only my opinion of course, and like arseholes, we all have one. ;-)
230 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:25:29
I've had thoughts on this too. Rom is very selfish but often lets us down. You can see players too scared to have a shot because he sulks if they miss.
He took the ball from Dom last night who was clear on goal and promptly lost it. He could've passed last night as well, to Kevin I think it was but decided to take on 2 defenders instead.
His attitude must affect others and it's really starting to piss me off... we have goals in our team; he is replaceable.
231 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:26:04
Time after time, head down shooting against defenders legs absolute shite. No awareness, no skill. We should have been 3-0 up easily by 80 mins.
The one that got me was where Barkley is running into acres of space as the two defenders get dragged over to Lukaku and Barkley didn't even sprint or shout for the ball because he KNEW Lukaku would shoot, just as the defenders did.
Yes, he's a great goalscorer on his day, but yesterday and Saturday he was total shite. I've had enough of his half-arsed jogging about, his moaning and arms in the air. He absolutely did my head in last night.
Calvert-Lewin was just as bad when he came on. There was one breakaway near the end where they were 2 v 2 and both showed no effort or desire whatsoever and the ball was surrendered so easily it left me speechless. Lukaku should have been subbed not Mirallas but that is NEVER going to happen.
Mirallas being pissed off was totally understandable, a terrible decision. I felt for Davies as he was left to do a lot of the legwork and closing down and it's not his strong point hence they got about 20 crosses into the box.
Anyway, I shall now put in place a self-imposed football lobotomy for three days and live a life of ignorant bliss from all of this.
233 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:34:09
Many remarked on his willingness to do that and contrasted it to OFM who "would have gone gung ho and lost the game". Like most, I couldn't understand last night's subs but Koeman is not the fool that many portray him as.
234 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:42:20
For an experienced international, it was inexcusable and Robles would have dealt easily with the shot [assuming he didn't repeat his fumbling of the disallowed goal].
Jagielka, Barry and Holgate were tremendous and Holgate deserves a medal for coming back so well from Saturday's nightmare.
It would have been fantastic to have been above Man Utd and Arsenal but, thanks to Koeman and Williams, we are back where I suppose we belong.
235 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:49:05
Go and take yourselves away read a book on the history of Everton to refresh your minds as to what we are all about.
A grand old club who set many of the traditions we see in the modern game is being dictated to by a player not fit to wear the badge made famous by predecessors who gave the fans a level of expectation that meant nothing less than 100% would do...
I fear for the future of the club when certain fans praise a player who has to be one of the laziest, egotistical divas I have ever seen.
I can't wait for him to be sold can't wait. I'd sooner have Valencia up front than this cretin.
237 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:56:39
The current situation with Lukaku reminds me of last season when we witnessed a sharp decline in form which culminated in a dreadful barren run which was capped off by a disastrous performance at Wembley in the semi-final.
Lukaku is evidently high maintenance as most good forwards are. It would be interesting to gauge his popularity with his teammates being one of the highest paid players at the Club there is possibly some resentment.
However, in addition to high maintenance we are also seeing this continuing trend of narcissistic behaviour. Personally I'm getting pretty sick of it and wouldn't be too upset to see Lukaku depart to the highest bidder at the end of the season.
238 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:04:54
Also I'm sure that Barkley is looked on with wonderment by some other players as he can go for weeks playing badly and is rarely subbed or dropped. Others have said that we need players with guts and attitude who maybe not blessed with fantastic skills, never shy away from responsibility or hide from the ball, Seamus for example. A player who shows these attributes and leaves nothing on the pitch after a game will always have the respect of true Evertonians.
The same respect that is clearly missing for Barkley and Lukaku. I wouldn't be sorry to see one or both of them go this summer and be replaced by players who would take pride in wearing the shirt.
I think Koeman is going in the right direction. Progress is relative but we have more points on the board than the last two seasons with games to play. He has also given opportunities to the kids which I'm really happy about.
I trust him to get things right in the summer. Fingers, toes and eyes crossed.
239 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:12:26
Others recognise Lukaku's faults, whilst at the same time seeing what he brings to Everton. It boils down to differing perceptions. It's clear you don't want him at Everton, but really, suggesting others who don't have your perception should learn Everton's history is a bit rich.
I didn't learn Everton's history from books, but from supporting them from 1961, during the time of Alex Young and Roy Vernon. Supporters don't need to be told to read books, in fact don't need to be lectured on the grandeur of our club.
It was only a few games ago that Lukaku was 'on fire', but it takes a couple of poor performances to have his detractors out in force. Perhaps if Koeman got his away tactics sorted, we wouldn't get these 'Lukaku is a gobshite' posts.
244 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:42:50
What I don't understand is why he sent on Pennington instead of Valencia, pushed Barkley out to the right and go to a straight forward 4-4-2. Then if Koeman felt the need to send on Calvert-Lewin he could have taken off Barkley and pushed Valencia out wide instead without changing the shape.
As it is, sending on Pennington simply clogged up out defence and put us on the back foot for the remainder of the match and handed the initiative to them. They were poor sub choices and I'm sure Koeman regrets making them.
Best to look on the bright side. By the end of the game They had just about their strongest side on the park and we had four of our up and coming youngsters in Holgate, Pennington, Calvert-Lewin and Davies yet we almost won.
This is good experience for all of them and no doubt with our current injury/suspensions they'll be getting more first team games under their belts in the remaining games to come. Maybe one or two other such as Lookman etc. may get a look in as well.
246 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:58:47
I accept that players have off-days but it happens too frequently with Lukaku where he just doesn't fancy it. I didn't follow the game last night because I play 5-a-side on Tuesdays. I had 5-Live on the radio though on my way to our game and Leon Osman was in the studio. He made the point that it almost seemed like Lukaku played the derby with an attitude of "there's a lot of aggressive tackles going on here. I'm gonna keep out of that because I don't want to get injured".
He went on to say that there were times where he could have shoulder-charged a RS defender or put pressure on them and just seemed to be idling about, disinterested.
These were comments from a guy who played with Lukaku and knows him better than any of us. If you were his teammate and he was effectively saying that he's too good to be playing with you and your ilk, would you put up with him strolling around with the "big I am" attitude?
247 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:59:16
As they say, it's the hope that kills you, but so do luck and fine margins. Let's play our favourite parlour game what if. What if we'd won at Mordor, say 2-1, and held out against the Mancs?
That would've put us equal 4th with RS with +23 GD and it would be only the fact that they've scored more, that they would be above us
Looking at it that way shows that we're not too far off.
248 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:12:29
Is he bigging him up to get top dollar for him? I don't know, but a lone forward playing at either Anfield or Old Trafford, should never last the full 90 minutes.
If he's constantly working for the team, he would be on his knees after 75-80 minutes, and that goes for any striker, not just a 15-stone man, who is full of muscle.
249 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:14:02
Big difference between us and the teams above is ambition. Pep has declared that every single player is playing for his future at City.
Come on Ronald lets lay down a similar marker to our lot. The club has to show ambition on the playing field not just a new stadium.
We seem to think that being the best of the rest is an achievement. If it is then, change the club motto.
250 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:37:12
He should've brought on Lookman and Valencia; Man Utd were there for the taking till Koeman's bottle went. That's foresight, not hindsight, and he does it time after time.
252 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:47:43
253 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:50:43
In your eagerness to tell me that you watched Everton in the 60s you missed the point that I made about reading a book about Everton to "refresh their minds to what we are all about"... our club wasn't formed in the 60s although the 60s represented what we should always strive for.
Everton has never been and never shall be about one player yet here we are indulging this overgrown manchild in all his narcissistic arrogant tendancies and isn't he just being allowed to get away with it?
The apathy and low standards that has poisoned the club for the past 30 years has culminated in grown men allowing a 23-year-old to take the proverbial out of our club in exchange for a few more goals than what we got from our previous line of budget level journeymen strikers... 15-year-old kids I can understand- they haven't had a Roy of the Rovers idol before now.
Seriously... It's cringeworthy. It's like watching a mate who hasn't had his leg over in 10 years disappear under the thumb of a new overbearing pain-in-the-backside girlfriend.
254 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:53:37
I don't think Peter is trying to patronize anyone, but merely point to our history within the club. We all agree that Rom is a great goalscorer (on his day, and sadly not in the big games) but to point to Koeman and blame him for Lukaku's deficiencies is incorrect.
Mourinho got rid of Lukaku (just as he did with Balotelli at Inter) because he could see what he lacked and was not convinced that a coach/manager of his undoubted quality could rectify that. We are talking about laziness, mentality, ethic, awareness and vision all difficult to correct, especially when a huge ego is a barrier to this.
256 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:57:08
No, I must admit I wouldn't put up with a player strutting around like he's the big cheese. That's a question of discipline, and if Lukaku is doing that, then Koeman needs to apply discipline to a paid professional under contract to do a job.
That said, I recall Koeman actually saying, a few months ago, that Lukaku would need to leave Everton to achieve his ambitions. I don't recall Lukaku ever saying this, despite some folks interpreting the facts to imply this. No, it was Koeman, not Lukaku. So Koeman needs to sort his act out as a manager of men.
Regarding the matter of whether Lukaku does strut his stuff arrogantly, I'm not convinced he is doing this. I don't see a negative effect on team spirit, quite the contrary in fact, judging by what I've seen on the pitch, and despite Williams giving him a bollocking last night. I agree that he should accept a bollocking when given and justified like last night, and if he doesn't, then that's also a matter of discipline.
But my main point to Peter was the criticism of fellow Evertonians for supporting Lukaku, or at least for not criticising him. There's no point in doing that, it's not really part of the debate about team tactics, discipline of players, style of the manager, etc. It's a diversion.
257 Posted 05/04/2017 at 13:14:21
None of us know how the young Calvert Lewin will turn out, at least let's give him a chance, I wouldn't have played him last night, I would have played Valencia, but Koeman picks the team, maybe the young lad will surprise us if given time.
258 Posted 05/04/2017 at 13:38:29
We had 3 or 4 good counter attacking chances and didn't take any of them and whilst I think Calvert-Lewin has a great future Valencia has shown that he can impact games late on with either his pace or through-ball.
260 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:17:42
Lukaku has always been lazy. So, when you're one-nil up, you have to defend from the front, that's why Williams was having a go at Rom.
Every club Rom has been at, he hasn't been able to keep his place in the team and we can see why. Lookman should've replaced Rom up front. Very bad substitutions.
261 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:23:17
So many salient points for 250 or so comments, but a few things stick out to me.
Regarding Lukaku, the man literally makes me bi-polar. There is no one in the world and that's not hyperbole from my viewpoint better than Lukaku when he is facing the goal, running at defenders, and battling for a ball in an attempt to score.
The kid is an absolute freak of nature a tank and he is just filthy good when he is physical and running at defenders. But he absolutely at times does literally nothing to help the team when it comes to holding up the ball and chasing down defenders.
He's crap at that, looks lazy, and it simply has to be infuriating when you're a defender busting your balls defending to get zero help from the big fella up top. Lukaku was woeful last night and let his team and teammates down.
I don't know what the answer is to his lack of effort. Do you take the good with the bad? Do you demand more and cut him loose if the lack of effort off the ball isn't there?
I honestly have no idea. Love him to death one second, literally hate him the next for that lazy can't be bothered attitude he displays.
And now I go a bit long on a thread...
What I simply and equally detest, are teammates berating fellow teammates in public. For whatever reason it's "culturally acceptable" for someone like Ashley Williams to sprint 20 yards out and just rip the shit out of Lukaku for his lack of effort. Maybe it's an "American" thing, this dislike I have to that type of thing? But I absolutely hate that.
Lukaku deserved a "bollocking". No question. But that shouldn't be done in front of 70k+ opposing fans and it certainly shouldn't be done by running 20 yards out of position to make your emphatic, childlike point.
Yell out at him, "Lu - we need more get on that ball!" or some such thing. Why in the hell any teammate would show up another teammate by making a complete spectacle by running 20 yards, waving your hands in anger and showing up your teammate is beyond me.
In the locker room, fucking punch the guy. But keep that shit out of the public eye and be a cohesive, together, dare I say encouraging TEAM UNIT for the 90+ minutes you're on the pitch.
Teammates shouldn't be showing up teammates and berating them, no matter how much they deserve it, during the game or in public. There's more effective ways to get your point across during the game that don't show "issues" or a "team divide" to the entire world. And there's better ways to motivate lazy teammates to pick up their game.
Sprinting out screaming and showing the guy up, waving your arms around for the whole world to see while embarrassing the living shit out of someone isn't being a good teammate, no matter how much that teammate might need a proverbial boot up his ass.
All that being said, Ashley Williams was an absolute fucking hero last night with his play. But adolescent tantrums that are completely embarrassing in nature to "motivate" your teammate are...
262 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:44:59
Fact is we have been pretty darn good since turn of the year and would be right up there in the Champions League places. Sadly it took 4 months for the team to get there.
I think Koeman got his subs wrong last night but we are moving forwards and our form for the last few months is pretty strong.
This Summer will be pivotal both in terms of outgoings and incomings but we are not that far behind the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and the RS (except when we play them!).
263 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:49:55
We are a club in a rebuilding process and I believe the club made every effort to keep him this season as they needed a goal scorer to try for the top 6.
At the beginning of the transfer window the club has to make a strong and determined number of negotiations to show their true ambitions, and if it means selling Lukaku and Barkley to raise extra funding, I think they will not hesitate to get the highest fee for them.
As for the comments that Koeman made mistakes last night . Every new manager makes mistakes, even experienced managers make mistakes so lets judge him at the end of the season as if there was no penalty last night, a lot of these comments would not have come up.
Without meaning any disrespect to anyone who mentioned that Robles should have been more involved to stop the penalty being given, next time you are in a park ,stand in a goal and have someone stand in front of you moving. while someone else hits a football towards the corner of the goal. It is easy to criticize something that happens in about 10-15 seconds.
264 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:57:27
He is and always will be just about himself, I hope he goes asap!
265 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:59:57
This is what happens when you have a Billy big time like Lukaku mouthing off about his future, dissing his club and teamates, then going out and putting in half-ass lazy performances in big games. If your going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk otherwise it will backfire like last night.
It's actually quite refreshing to come on here this morning and see most of the posters/fans comments; you can only fool an Evertonian for so long, see Martinez. The quicker he's gone the better.
266 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:21:45
"All I want is a Gaffer who is braver than Koeman... or nowt will ever change!"
We had a gaffer who was braver than Koeman. A manager who was simply incapable of closing down games and kept costing us wins because of it. His name was Roberto Martinez.
It's not a question of bravery it's a question of common sense. We were only one up but we were holding our own. We needed to keep a goal threat up front. Plainly Mirallas was wound up from the free kick incident and one more foul would have had him off.
A better substitution was obviously Valencia. Obvious to everyone except Koeman that is. We could have gone 4-4-2 and have kept a decent goal threat without disrupting the defence that was playing well.
The real problem is Koeman still doesn't have enough faith in his players. He showed it in the Spurs game before it even started by naming three DMs. He did it against the Reds by playing three CBs. He has to stop trying to defend his way to success against the top sides away from home. It hasn't worked at all this season bar the undeserved 1-1 against City.
The top clubs almost always pinch a goal by a deflected shot, set piece, a penalty, or defensive lapse and then we're left in the lurch because we don't have enough attacking players on the pitch to make a change. The defeats against Spurs, Liverpool and now this draw can be entirely laid at the door of Koeman and his poor player choices and tactical substitutions.
This isn't to say he isn't heading in the right direction because I think he is. But he has to stop these lapses in judgement because they are costing us points.
267 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:23:18
Earlier in the season, in a home game, Williams gave Lukaku a bollicking for not getting involved, while he Lukaku, as still berating his teammates for not doing as he wanted. He is a self centred egotist who wants the world to revolve around him.
268 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:23:49
His response "I expect us to win, chairman". As we all know we beat the RS 2-0.
So last night was not okay because we 'got' a point at Old Trafford. Koeman's tactics and response to a point in his interview was flabbergasting, like he thinks hes 'Hannibal' for drawing with United.
The opportunity to leap up the table is now not in 3 effing years. You can deliver ahead of schedule if you want to!
It would appear that the self styled 'best striker in world Rom 'my gob is bigger than yours' Lukaku is undroppable. Why did Koeman not have the balls to sub the lad? Because they're stuffed in his wife's purse somewhere.
Does he think pandering to Rom is the way to go? Will this in the end bear fruit and he'll stay? Its now a pantomime and it lacks the key ingredient, humour.
For a serial winner, Koeman is giving me the impression of the exact opposite, a bottling shithouse.
I will go back and forth on him because his body of work to date demands it. I'm fed up of the way we play away from home. It is unacceptable. And the root of the it, Koeman.
To be fairly close to a top 6 finish or better and to have lost points at Middlesboro', Bournemouth, Watford. The list is damning. We have nothing to lose in these games we have the points for European football. Why is there no courage I say again, 'Shithouse that Ronnie.
We will in all probability win the next two home games, and maybe bring ourselves to the brink again, just like a boiling pot, then some fucker will walk past and switch it off.
Its seems to me Koeman is having a 'dirty protest' on Moshiri's lawn. 'Look, chairman, my squad is totally shit and I have to play toddlers at Liverpool and United. Can I have better toys please?'
But hey ho its an emotional ride and I still love the crap out of Everton, but maybe I don't always show it...
269 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:37:22
Your last para is a lesson to us all when we are livid with some aspect of our club. But be careful. If we all are self aware like that this place could become reasonable!
As for the manager. My hope, and in could be very misplaced, is that this guy can manage a team of better class players. He is no Moyes to fight from relegation but I think he can manage a team of confident and skillful lads.
Just checked this post for spelling and now not sure I am sure! Perhaps I would like his brain with a bit more passion.
270 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:38:06
Where he's a liability to the team is his work rate and team play. Remember the mid '80s. We won the league and then bought a fantastic goalscorer in Gary Lineker. He went on to score 40 goals (I think), but everything was played through him and as a result not many of his team mates hit the back of the net. We didn't win anything that season and Lineker was sold to Barcelona.
The following season the game plan changed with goals shared around as a result and we won the league again.
No player is bigger than the club or the team and I don't see the sale of Lukaku as a prelude to the club falling off a precipice. Changing the dynamics and the over reliance on one player, wouldn't, in my view, be necessarily a bad thing. History has shown us the way.
272 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:44:35
There are others for 㿨m.
273 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:56:17
Yes Lukaku does pull those stunts.
The master of throwing his arms outstretched, east to west with that "What the fuck, why didn't you do xyz" look. Often times he does that after HE actually didn't do something right. And that is embarrassing and shouldn't be tolerated either.
Just flatly, none of that shit should ever happen between teammates in public.
When I moved to Florida about 13 years ago, I joined a men's hockey league ice, not that stick whomping shit you fine folks play over there. My first game with a new team I knew no one. I had played at a relatively high level in my younger days.
A kid, all of 18 years old, played on the team. Good skater, nice kid, but you could tell he hadn't played at a high level. Held the puck too long, his positioning was suspect, et al. One time early in the game he and I broke out on a 2 on 1. I shot the puck, the goalie made a good save, and the kid looked at me and yelled, "Pass the fucking puck!"
I looked at the kid, turned for the subsequent faceoff, didn't say a word, played a shift of about 1 minute or so, and we went for a line change.
On the bench I sat next to the kid, took a quick look around to make sure no-one was paying attention to us, and said to him, "if you ever fucking yell at me on the ice again, I'm going to beat the shit out of you. Get me the puck, I'll score, everyone's happy. Don't ever fucking yell at me again."
I went on to score 36 goals in 10 games. The kid never yelled again. I helped the kid out a lot with improving his game the positioning, the cerebral part of it all. We got along fantastically from that point forward.
I didn't yell back. I didn't make a scene. I went on to take him under my wing as it were.
I should have put my stick in his kidney. I didn't. It was a busher men's league to be sure but at any level it's just not "right".
In my little myopic, idealistic world, teammates don't show up other teammates. It's fucking subhuman, counter-productive, negative horseshit.
And it sends me through the roof when I see two Everton players shitting on one another for the whole world to see.
275 Posted 05/04/2017 at 16:24:36
I have always tried not to slag off the team or staff but the past two games have been awful all round. Selection and subs have been poor by Koeman to say the least. Team effort and application has been woeful.
I really don't like joining the arse-kicking but:-
Lukaku, you get paid to play football, not wander about a pitch.
Barkley, Where you actually, mentally, in Salford last night, boy?
Koeman, just what the fuck are you managing and what is your plan.
I have had the pleasure of seeing some poor performances in the past, but past two games have set new lows in terms of team effort.
276 Posted 05/04/2017 at 16:42:53
Unfortunately, in some games he reverts back to his old ways, and let's himself down with a poor touch, but more often than not, last night he did not have teammates near enough for a lay-off.
His biggest fault was his refusal to look for the pass, to put another in on goal. He seemed determined to be the goal scorer, in an attempt to get the headlines, the credit, and the attention of Mr Mourinho and Mr Conte. When things didn't go his way he blamed his teammates for giving poor passes etc.
The fact that Williams had a go at him doesn't bother me in the slightest. Whenever I have been playing, it is expected that a teammate (not even a senior one) should have a go at you for not putting in a shift. His ego is the problem here, and I would be surprised if others in the camp are not fed-up with his antics.
As for Barkley, I saw Osman's comments criticising him for still making the same mistakes he was making when he broke through at eighteen. It seems he runs around more, but he rarely finds space to shoot, and still takes too many touches.
I personally have lost patience with him, and don't think he will improve. I look forward to seeing good players who know when to take one touch, and when to dribble. Players who play with their heads up aware of their options.
We have all played football at some level, and we all know guys who want to do it all, who want to beat everyone, who hog it too long, and don't pass. They are not the best footballers. Lukaku and Barkley both fall into that category.
Sell them both in the summer, and get us some new heroes to moan at!
277 Posted 05/04/2017 at 17:28:14
Some fans are never satisfied so let them name some strikers who are better. Messi, Bale, Greizman, Lewandowski maybe to name a few but let's be realistic Rom. has his own style and Everton play to it for the most part. He has to plough a lone furrow at times and has done well over the last few years.
Sadly, he hasn't really had a good support player although Mirallas did form a good understanding with him for a while which is not happening now as Mirallas is being asked to play deeper in certain games. Frankly I see Mirallas going soon and maybe Rom. too.
Calvert-Lewin looks good but Valencia has had little chance to play and Koeman may not keep him anyway. Ross has been playing better this half of the season but once again let's himself and the team down with poor decision making when the right decision at vital moments could pay dividends.
Koeman has a lot of decisions to make and we all hope they are the right ones before next season.
278 Posted 05/04/2017 at 18:36:51
I do agree with him about an answer to a question put to him, as to whether he watched Kane, and he replied he had no need to. But some folks seem to interpret that as arrogance.
He's played some fantastic games for us this season, and has just been awarded Premier League Player of the Month. He has two relatively bad games, amidst the usual tactical blunders away from home from Koeman, and we get the usual pouncing on him, the usual 'fuck off you arrogant prick', 'you lazy bastard', and various other charming little insults.
It's like some folks are lurking in the shadows, in wait whilst Lukaku is playing well and knocking the goals in, and then pouncing when he has a bad game, producing the usual vitriol that for others has become a tedious mantra.
And it's similar for Barkley.
279 Posted 05/04/2017 at 18:59:38
280 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:06:15
281 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:07:42
I respect your point, but I cant agree with it.
Lukaku's commitment has always been suspect, He will get away with it as long as he is banging them in. but he will be rightly slaughtered for his attitude in games like the last two.
I would normally agree that team mates should not be washing their dirty linen in public, but I think the time for a quiet word in Lukaku's shell-like has long since gone. I suspect there has already been dozens of them over the seasons and Lukaku has simply shrugged his shoulders.
His supporters will throw out the usual "I don't want a forward chasing back 50 yards" and that is because they do not understand the point. He does not do enough to keep the ball.
When he surrendered possession trying his dainty little side step when we had a two v two situation, I nearly put me foot through the telly. I knew what was coming. Why the fuck did he not just knock it into the space on the left and make the defender turn around and have to fight him? Why did he just down tools when his lazy little trick didn't work?
His attitude can not be tolerated and I think most Evertonians were relieved to see Williams showing them that it isn't being tolerated.
Talking of Williams, I think its time for me to step into the confessional box. I have slaughtered him and Jagielka recently, but they were guts personified last night even combined to make and take our goal.
Fair play to them. I hope they spend the rest of the season proving me wrong.
282 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:18:01
The thing that stood out for me last night was in spite of the poor tactics employed by Koeman, despite the lack of a platform to help him attack Lukaku was left 1 on 1 with Rojo or Bailley several times in a vacant half of the pitch.
Each time either he just dribbled on to their boots or, were he looking to receive the ball, his movement was like that of Shrek mired in his swamp.
The self professed talker left with only his skills to get the job done, he was found lacking, and sorely at that.
I was screaming at the TV with 20 minutes left each time he or Barkley or Calvert-Lewin gave up the ball. Whilst not the only one culpable he certainly was the standout given his ability.
If he shoulder the fall out for last night its maybe because he deserved it?
I know Koeman was mostly at fault but you can't let the lad off lightly!
283 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:25:57
284 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:29:38
I think if he has missed his glory boat and people see his weaknesses, we should be clear with him of behaviour and development required if he is to stay. I can see Koeman doing that.
285 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:43:33
Davies needs a rest. I think he had a really poor game. Weak on the ball, sloppy passing. His performances have declined over a few weeks now.
The subs were definitely not up for it. Calvert-Lewin was awful. Pennington did okay, but his introduction put us even more on the backfoot, cue the inevitable heartbreak. Sadly we had no midfielder on the bench that could have made a difference.
And when United can bring on the likes of Pogba, Mkhitarian and Shaw (with no need to bring on Martial) you know you'll have a tough time in the end.
Good result nevertheless, but it very much highlighted the need for a busy summer. The kids are alright, but just not good enough yet.
286 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:44:34
As the senior professional, Williams was perfectly within his rights to have a pop, I thought.
As for the "tedious mantra"?
"Taking Mirallas off says everything about Koeman's away tactics. Shite."
"...tactical decisions away from home that demonstrate fear and futile containment"
"Give Koeman time, another two years, after which we'll know beyond all reasonable doubt that he's useless at marshalling an attacking Everton performance away from home"
"He's been left isolated consistently by Koeman's tactics, which have been lamentable (a posh term for total shite) away from home"
"Perhaps if Koeman got his away tactics sorted, we wouldn't get these 'Lukaku is a gobshite' posts."
"...his away tactics are repeatedly isolating Lukaku"
'Ron, Ron, go AWAY,
Come back with the 'home tactics' you used the other day.
Ron, Ron, go AWAY,
Little Lookman wants to play;
Ron, Ron, just jog on,
Or at least take a portable sign on your fucking travels saying Home Team: Everton'
Etc Etc Etc Etc
Seriously Stan, you don't half like to hammer a point home. Your (slightly simplistic) 'Koeman is a good home manager, but a hopeless away meff' musings must be spread across almost every thread going at the moment, having superseded the previous 'It is a FACT that Everton might, possibly, maybe, if they existed in a world where money was worth about as much as a Wacaday mallet, see more value in making Lukaku stay and run down his contract, rather than sell him' pummelling home of your particular point of view.
287 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:57:42
That's game intelligence. The young kid has it, Rom doesn't.
288 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:20:36
289 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:27:41
Paul (#288), off topic but any chance for us to meet up in Scotland next week when I come over from the US?
290 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:36:24
291 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:51:32
I don't, however, like your description of those who take a contrary view to yours as "fanboys"; frankly, it makes you sound like a fucking prick.
292 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:30:05
If you're in a team playing against Everton it must gladden your heart that it's 11 v 9 when you're in possession, just as it must dismay the nine Evertonians not excused from busting a gut in pursuit of a result.
Whether the two of them are here next season is a moot point. Good as he can be I don't think Barkley is now capable of improvement and compared to the likes of Sigurdsson there's no comparison, not that the Icelander is the be all and end all. He's just got a very good all-round game and he scores more. That's the least we've long needed to see in Barkley's shirt in order to progress.
Obviously we'd need a proven goal-scorer or two if Lukaku conjures up a move to whatever Nirvana he's imagined this week, or next, or next, etc etc.
That said, I can't quite think of another striker who contributes less when the less glamorous work needs doing, but I can think of a few that, with the talent we're already starting to acquire, allied to more in the summer, will likely score sufficient to enable us to quickly forget him.
293 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:41:42
Sounding a total tree-hugging, anti-conflict peace-nick, I too respect your point and I get it.
If I were Ashley Williams I'd of wanted to storm out, get straight up in Rom's gob, and fucking verbally dismember him last night. I just simply wish to God no one would do that and demonstrate restraint in public, on the pitch, especially in the middle of a game.
We're a team. Not a conglomeration of individuals. At least (and again it's a completely naive assertion on my part) that's the way it SHOULD be. So deserved or not, I simply don't like it and in my opinion it shouldn't happen.
Anywho, cheers mate. This season is frustrating. I'm about as frustrated as I was in Martinez's second season. I see what we're trying to accomplish but we are coming up short when it counts.
Ten years of this and it's seriously getting on my nerves. I pity those of you who have been through this shit for three decades.
294 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:43:35
Crying out for a Monty Python skit, "but apart from scoring goals, and setting up goals, and being the only focal point for attack, always drawing 3-4 defenders, and our record goal scorer in the modern era..."
295 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:44:56
I do think that his all round game has improved this season though his attitude, workrate and link-up play are the things that will prevent him from becoming a great player.
In my time supporting the blues:
296 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:54:18
Time for an absolutely wack-a-doodle answer to the, "if not Rom, who then?" question: Jamie Vardy.
I don't give a fiddler's fart what people think of that. I absolutely love Jamie Vardy. I don't think you'd ever see a supporter leave pissed off at his effort.
He's not even remotely as gifted, blessed by God above, with Rom's talent.
But that guy, smarmy little convenience store knock-off artist he'd be if he weren't a footballer NEVER STOPS. He would harass, chase down, disrupt, hold up play, and do ANYTHING to win.
It's not a realistic answer to your question. But give me a guy like that all day long who literally would run through a wall and die for the cause every single time. He'd never do what Rom did last night. I absolutely love to watch that man play.
And before anyone says he's not good enough, he won a fucking title last year and is currently in the Champions League. Seems good enough to me, and I would never, ever bore of watching him play and would applaud his effort constantly.
But what I really want isn't a Rom replacement. I want Rom to do the dirty work he doesn't like to and pull his head out of his ass; staying at Everton his entire career.
297 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:05:47
298 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:09:45
Rom's done very well for us but only when the team are buzzing. For me, Rom is poor when the team struggles and he could improve hugely with just a touch more effort when we don't have the ball.
Looking forward to Sunday. I suspect Williams was thinking the same last night when he appeared to lay into Rom. Roll on Sunday. Let's see what occurs.
299 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:36:21
I must admit, I do rather enjoy hammering a point, especially when I think it's a good point. It might be called 'pontificating', but I suppose that's what TW is for, to allow us Evertonians to pontificate about Everton.
It's just that there does seem large amount of repetitious pontificating about Lukaku, many threads on other topics rapidly turning into 'Lukaku is a useless tosser' thread when we lose a game.
300 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:15:08
Like Lukaku, that arrogant twat today has come out and said Man Utd need to show they match HIS ambition if they want him to stay next season but in fairness to him he's had well over a decade actually scoring goals for teams who've won the Champions League, their league and everything else available to them. If our gobshite had achieved any of those things for us I'd cut him some slack, but he hasn't, even though he's signed lengthy lucrative contracts.
301 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:19:37
Nobody disputes his goal scoring abilities but you must surely be able to see the times when he just isn't 100% up for it. I can forgive lack of skill in any player if he's giving 100% but find it hard to warm to any player who doesn't give 100%.
ToffeeWebbers see it, pundits see it, and even team mates are making it clear they're not happy. There has to be something in it Stan, surely?
ps: I don't think for one minute he's a useless tosser.
302 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:33:29
I said, once Koeman was appointed, that I hoped Koeman would be a disciplinarian who would not tolerate players not putting a shift in, Lukaku included. As I said above, Lukaku himself has stated quite openly that he has much to learn.
I believe he's been improving, and hopefully will continue to do so with Everton. But, to be honest, pundits don't interest me, which is why I turn the sound off when watching MotD so I don't have to listen to their drivel.
303 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:07:20
I agree that Davies has an astute "football brain" even when not playing well last night he put himself in the right place. For some one so young he's very "pitch wise" (if that's a term). Anyway im excited and eager to watch him develop in the future.
I feel in keeping with the theme of every thread at the moment I must say something about Rom: err... .he's... ahh it's all been done to death, sack it bed time.
304 Posted 06/04/2017 at 00:22:53
305 Posted 06/04/2017 at 01:18:09
Sharp â€“ won loads and stayed for 10years clearly better than Lukaku
Latchford â€“ iconic the stuff of boyhood dreams a romantic choice. Lukaku's record probably bests him
Beardsley â€“ his career puts Lukaku in a box, more skill in his little finger, deffo above.
Rooney â€“ditto, but for his Everton career Lukaku beats him
Gray â€“ did the lot, especially when he didn't score he took the fight to the oppo, Lukaku ain't even in the same frame.
Ferguson â€“ could easily be below Rom but scored in games that mattered to us. A subjective view but it matters. Scourge of Utd and RS.
Lineker â€“ is his latter day equal, needs a team to play for him to get the goals. Rom's peer.
Lukaku â€“ needs the team to play for him. His record is amazing but when you see all but 6/7 goals from outside the area you know he is a one dimensional, albeit amazing, player.
So, all-in-all, somewhere in the middle.
306 Posted 06/04/2017 at 01:29:25
And tonight, for the first time, I got to see what looks like Lukaku complain to Pogba about Williams. He showed Williams no respect whatsoever. He needs to grow up.
307 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:34:55
I am a Lukaku fan, but I don't think he is infallible typical of many Everton supporters to turn on a player who has confidence and actually wants to win things, unlike the garbage underachievers we've put up with for the past whoever knows how long but to just blatantly make something up like that to criticise a player with is plain rotten.
308 Posted 06/04/2017 at 02:08:24
I know Calvert-Lewin has come in for some criticism for recent displays, but he's a centre-forward being played as a wide man/auxiliary striker, so for me the jury is still very much out.
Pennington has had to come in, against difficult opposition, and defend centrally. Right now he's not remotely up to it; he looks like a schoolboy in a man's game. I hope he improves. He needs to.
309 Posted 06/04/2017 at 02:17:53
I have to completely disagree with you regarding Rom and his celebrations. More often than not he does not go and congratulate a teammate that bags a goal. Not that I particularly care... but it would be a very hollow club if every player behaved like that after a goal. And you can bet that Rom himself would expect the pat on the back when he buries one.
I like Lukaku as a player, but he does come across as a very selfish and petulant individual. The amount of times you see him, arms outstretched, as if to say "Why didn't you put it on a plate for me?" Meanwhile he will quite happily ignore support, run himself down blind alleys or go for goal from 30 yards with his right foot and then clasp his open mouth as if he was a whisker away from brilliance.
It says it all that even with all his goals, he still divides the fans. He should be a legend at the club, given our recent dearth of goal scorers.
310 Posted 06/04/2017 at 05:03:10
Last night's game was a vast improvement. Once we have hopefully a top 6 spot nailed, give the likes of Kenny and Dowell a run out.
Hopefully next season we might be luckier on the injury front.
311 Posted 06/04/2017 at 08:52:45
At Old Trafford, he would have provided us with the midfield stability to prevent the game turning into the "attack versus defence" spectacle that we all witnessed as our midfield was overrun.
Incidentally, the Zlatan v Lukaku comparisons above are very interesting. No you don't see the Swede running back in defence, putting in tackles, but what you do see is him receiving possession, holding the ball and passing to teammates in and around the box. He has a fabulous football brain, and despite his age can influence a game which is played at an incredible pace.
Lukaku has two main abilities. He likes the ball in front of him for him to run on to. He can then use his pace to either leave his opponent in his wake, then his accuracy is excellent. His other move is to come in from the right onto his left foot and drag any defenders with him. His close control is good as he tries to get the half yard to unleash his shot.
Zlatan no longer has the pace of his early years, but he reads the game well. His physical strength enables him to hold off any defenders, and he plays with his head up and sees everything that is going on. He spots when a keeper is off his line, when a defender has left a gap, he has a tremendous shot and is brilliant in the air.
When Romelu is 35, he won't be anywhere near as effective, as his game is all about pace. Like Lineker, he depends on that main quality to score his goals.
312 Posted 06/04/2017 at 12:51:18
Anyway hopefully good news: BBC Sport are reporting that a Chelsea move is 99% done, please let that be true the sooner he's out, the better for everyone, including him.
313 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:09:27
We must have a happy ship; will Rom ever shut up (talking to the press, family interjections, player's agent! etc)?
If not... Sail on, Rom; if the grass is greener, let us know!
315 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:23:27
316 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:30:26
A simple pass to Cleverley and he scores. But Rom holds onto the ball.
318 Posted 07/04/2017 at 01:28:39
For me, I want a selfish striker who gets the shits if he doesn't score. I'm not saying I want a striker who disrespects a club, but people seem to be getting very precious about that these days. On here we get people berating the board, the management staff, the players, and then other supporters. What else is there to a football club?
319 Posted 07/04/2017 at 03:00:42
320 Posted 07/04/2017 at 23:13:08
How frustrating it must be to prepare for a game knowing that no matter what runs you make or what you do, that Ross will either dribble into defenders and lose the ball then fall over, or almost worse, pass the ball right to the opposition, instead of making an easy pass to space. Yes, I watch the games and replay them and see Rom make the effort so many on here claim he does not.
But then, to have a relative newcomer to the squad, who captained the team that broke his teammate's leg and did nothing about it, or the Bale tackle earlier (good captain could have toned down the game and maybe the tackle on Coleman doesn't happen), gesticulating and yelling at him, well, Lukaku should have dropped him right then and there.
I wonder why Williams wasn't yelling at his players then? Lukaku merely told him to shush which is the way you scold a child or someone acting like one. Especially when the petulant not-captain costs his team two points with a handling call and a red card. Good on you Rom.
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