Stoppage time penalty denies Everton precious Old Trafford win

Monday 3 April 2017  299 Comments  [Jump to last]
Shaun Botterill/Getty Images

Everton were seconds away from a massive victory at Old Trafford but they couldn't hold out against a late onslaught from Manchester United.

The Blues were leading by Phil Jagielka's first-half goal but had spurned chances on the counter-attack to kill the game before Ashley Williams stopped a goal-bound shot by Luke Shaw and handed Zlatan Ibrahimovic the chance to earn a point from the spot.

The three points would have taken Everton level on points with United in the table and put them back in the mix for the top four but had to settle for a solitary point when the Swede successfully planted his penalty past Joel Robles.

It was rough justice on the Spaniard who had preserved the Blues' lead in the first half with two excellent saves that denied Daley Blind and Ander Herrera.

Ronald Koeman reverted to a back four to face the Red Devils, with Matthew Pennington dropping from the XI that started against Liverpool on Saturday. There were recalls for Kevin Mirallas and Gareth Barry while Joe Williams was on the bench with Jonjoe Kenny.

The Blues started strongly, looking far stronger in the altered shape from the derby but it was United who had the first genuine opening when Ibrahimovic had a sight of goal but was denied a goal by a brilliant saving challenge from Ashley Williams.

Everton settled into a pattern of consistent possession that increasingly unsettled the home fans and Mirallas went close with a shot from a tight angle that David de Gea blocked behind for a corner.

From that set-piece, Williams looped a header into the six-yard box and Phil Jagielka took advantage of hesitant goalkeeping to flick the ball between De Gea's legs to hand Everton the lead.

Jose Mourinho's side were stung into a response and when Mirallas inexplicably pulled Jessie Lingard down on the edge of his own penalty area it set up a direct free-kick opportunity for Daley Blind.

The Dutchman executed a well-placed effort that looked as though it might sneak inside the post but Joel Robles leapt to his left to make a save before colliding with the upright. Ander Herrera seized on the rebound but he could only fire it off the crossbar.

Six minutes later, Romelu Lukaku tried to go it alone but saw his shot from distance blocked and Davies's powerful first-time effort hit Mirallas on its way to goal.

Robles was called into action again five minutes before half time but was equal to Herrera's shot, flying to his right to fingertip the shot wide.

Everton started the second half on the back foot and as the contest became more fractious, Paul Pogba headed off the bar from a free kick after Gareth Barry had checked Marcus Rashford.

Ibrahimovic looked to have levelled with 19 minutes to go but his header was chalked off for offside while there was an unpunished pull on substitute Pennington as the striker headed in from close range.

Koeman's men had chances to kill the game on the counter attack but their execution and ball retention was poor, allowing United to maintain ceaseless pressure on the Everton back line.

Marouane Fellaini knocked a shot wide and then hooked over after Robles had failed to punch clear yet another cross while Lukaku's burst down the right ended with De Gea denying him at the near post.

Everton were clinging on as Ibrahimovic spurned what seemed like it might be United's last clear-cut chance when he headed Rashford's cross over but when the ball was lumped into the box one last time and Luke Shaw rattled a shot towards the bottom corner, Williams clearly handled with an instinctive reaction and was shown an automatic red card, Ibrahimovic lashing home from the spot to tie the game at the death.

Kick-off: 8pm, Tuesday 4th April 2017
Referee: Neil Swarbrick
Last Time: Manchester United 1 - 0 Everton

Everton: Robles, Holgate, A Williams, Jagielka, Baines, Barry, Gueye, Davies, Barkley (80' Calvert-Lewin), Mirallas (76' Pennington), Lukaku.
Subs not Used: Stekelenburg, Kenny, J Williams, Valencia, Lookman.

Full details: ToffeeWeb match page


Reader Comments (299)

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Peter Warren
1 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:09:36
COYB
Mark Frere
2 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:09:51
That is the team I would've picked. It's our best available team.
Chris Gould
3 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:23:36
It's the team that I would imagine most of us thought would start on Saturday. With what we have available, I think it's about the best we can put out.

Valencia has looked lively and can possibly count himself a little unlucky not to make the starting XI.

Mike Berry
4 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:23:45
No complaints with that team, which should have been the one for last Saturday.

I hope Ronny is bold and uses his subs to win the game when or if needed, COYBs!

Dave Older
5 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:28:00
Let's show a bit of fight blues, right the wrongs from Saturday. NSNO.
Colin Metcalfe
6 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:34:05
Oh dear... Barry is in the team, we have absolutely no chance now!
Gerry Morrison
7 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:48:12
Colin, I think we would have been a better team if Barry had played on Saturday. Maybe we are thinking of a different fella.
Dean Cooper
8 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:48:54
Wish people would stop ragging on Barry. This is a good game for him and he's probably quicker than the entire Man Utd midfield..
Ciarán McGlone
9 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:50:47
I think Barry will be more suited to this game than Saturday, especially against Herrera, Carrick and Fellaini... They won't come at us as fast as Liverpool did.

4-5-1 suits this game.

Tony Hill
10 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:51:23
In my usual tragic way, I have been going through the remaining fixtures for us and all the sides above us, and have convinced myself that if we win tonight then top 4 is not absolutely out of the question.

Pitiful. But if we do win...

Joe McMahon
11 Posted 04/04/2017 at 19:52:07
Colin (6), I agree. Jaqs, Williams and Barry. They started their playing careers in the days when fooball was in black and white and team mates had names like Nobby Nobs.
Colin Metcalfe
12 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:04:19
Well, I hope I am wrong; let's see how things turn out. However, I've got to say I'm not feeling very confident after that gutless display on Saturday!
Mark Morrissey
13 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:04:52
Just glad he hasn't dropped Robles for Stekelenburg. That would have been a backward step.

As for the Barkley dissenters, I hope he shuts them up again tonight. C'mon you blue boys!

Philip Bunting
14 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:44:50
Maybe I am just over critical but why do our players seem to hit passes underweight or behind the man instead of at pace to feet or slightly ahead. Takes the complete impetus away or in a lot of cases we lose the ball.
Ciarán McGlone
15 Posted 04/04/2017 at 20:50:29
We're playing well against a very ponderous Man Utd side. Davies would be my choice for the hook... he's doing a lot of running but not much else.

If we try and contain this it could backfire... we need to play for more goals.

Let Valencia have a run out.

Ernie Baywood
17 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:01:15
Very Un-Everton. We took advantage of our spell of dominance.

United weren't going to be overrun constantly so fully expected them to have a lot of possession in the last 20, but we need to stop retreating so deep.

Still looking threatening though. Amazing what starting attacking players out wide will do. Mirallas is a threat from there and when he drags his man inside he leaves room for Rom.

Hopefully more of the same, but need to get our foot on the ball in spells.

Colin Hughes
18 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:18:44
This is one bad Man Utd side, need to be taking advantage of this for once. A draw would feel like a defeat now as we won't get a better chance of beating one of the big guns away.
Ciarán McGlone
19 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:32:47
In danger of losing this with that defensive and shit scared substitution.
Tony Kost
20 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:34:37
Mirallas substitution -– why? He was a great outlet – he was playing well. No wonder he was so pissed!
Colin Hughes
21 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:35:10
Koeman is a negative manager; Klopp would have gone for more goals against this average Man Utd side. Mirallas off for Pennington is inviting pressure which we usually can't cope with.
Joseph Terrence
22 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:13
Barry has been fantastic
Tony Kost
23 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:23
Barkley should have gone off earlier and kept Mirallas on (inmho).
Philip Bunting
24 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:44:23
Calvert-Lewin is a little lightweight at this level. Needs to beef up as he is getting pushed off the ball far too easily.
Mark Hughes
25 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:53:21
Take Super Kev off and invite pressure... FFS!!!
Ernie Baywood
26 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:55:48
Just incredible. What did he see on Saturday and for the first 70 minutes tonight to think "I'll do it again"?
Ciarán McGlone
27 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:56:16
That is Koeman's fault... pure and simple.

I wonder who he'll use as a distraction this week.. Mourinho's hamster?

Pathetic and senseless substitutions.

Patrick Murphy
28 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:56:46
They were very strange substitutions and probably cost us 3 points but what has Klopp got to do with anything?
John Pierce
29 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:57:52
My anger, and it is anger, is at Lukaku. Every fucker is trying their nuts off. He ambles around like he owns the gaff. A disgrace.
Stan Schofield
30 Posted 04/04/2017 at 21:59:37
Taking Mirallas off says everything about Koeman's away tactics. Shite.
James Flynn
31 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:00:59
This is the game where my "why do I do this?" kicks in.


Patrick Murphy
32 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:01:13
Davies should have gone off before either Barkley or Mirallas, he was trying but wasn't doing a great deal.

Everton probably didn't do enough to win the game but inviting pressure with little or no outlet was not for the first time the manager's fault.

Jay Wood
33 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:08
Cruel.

If your first reaction to that performance is to be critical, there is simply no helping some of you.

A thoroughly enjoyable game.

Phil Malone Jnr
34 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:24
Said it in the derby, Calvert-Lewin has no pace, can't hold up the ball, doesn't have a trick... I have no idea why he's anywhere near this squad, never mind coming on.

The amount of counter-attacks we had and we put him on instead of Lookman. Ridiculous decisions, Koeman; stand up and take responsibility.

Karl Parsons
35 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:26
Gutted. Immense defending and great team performance. Let's keep it positive folks...
Colin Hughes
36 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:44
We have a losing mentality at our club, Patrick, and Koeman isn't going to change it because he is negative and was too worried about conceding rather than taking the game to a poor Man Utd side.

I referred to Klopp simply because his mentality is to go for goals everywhere hence the reason why they won at Chelsea twice under him and scored 4 at Arsenal and 4 at City last season.

We will never win at a top ground again with this bottler's attitude.

Kieran Kinsella
37 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:02:51
I'm satisfied. On Saturday people said we couldn't compete with the top six. We proved them wrong.

Williams fell on his sword to block a certain goal. The subs weren't ideal but looking at the bench we didn't have much in reserve. As for Calvert-Lewin, Koeman sees him in training every day so I'll trust there is a method to his madness.

John G Davies
38 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:03:16
Sickener.

Great performance from Williams, Jagsielka and Barry. Mirallas unlucky to be subbed but easy to see what Koeman was doing in stopping the overload down their left hand side. Hold on for another 30 seconds and it's a clever sub; we didn't hold on and he's a cunt.

Happy overall with the performance. Rom and Barkley not good enough in their hold up play. I would have subbed Ross and left Kevin on.
Christy Ring
39 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:03:28
I cannot understand the Mirallas substitution; he was a constant danger, and bringing on a defender, meant we were on the back foot, and it cost us in the end.
Craig Mills
40 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:17
Bad bad call bringing Calvert-Lewin on again – I don't think he made one positive contribution. Valencia would have been much better option. Not sure what Koeman sees in him because, on the pitch, I see fuck all.
Anto Byrne
41 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:23
Mirallas our best forward, no wonder he was pissed off. Barkley was atrocious and should have been dragged on 60 minutes.

Of course, this is Everton and you knew they would blow it and Robles had that shot covered. Very disappointing – feels like a loss.

Tony Twist
42 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:50
Shame... but distinct lack of bravery from the manager cost us dearly.
Stan Schofield
43 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:04:54
Jay@33: Agree, but it was so disappointing and frustrating at the end. Why the hell was Mirallas taken off?
Dave Ganley
44 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:05:31
Yep, have to agree, Stan. I've been a fan of Koeman but totally baffled by the Mirallas sub with over 20 minutes to go. He was playing well, we offered a threat and suddenly it was a backs to the wall siege which finally gave in.

So annoyed by the last 2 games. So avoidable. Bottle gone against the RS again and inexplicably give the Mancs the initiative when leading and properly in a game. I fucking hate football at times and hate the way Everton continually let you down. Completely fucked up my week.

Gerry McGuirk
45 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:06:40
Sickened! Very poor Man Utd team who were there for the beating. Substitutions killed us. Once Barkley and Mirallas were taken off, we posed no threat and Lukaku was totally isolated. Our defence had no outlet and were under constant pressure.

Given Man Utd's history of jammy late goals and ours of last-minute heartbreak, there was only ever going to be one outcome... and so it transpired! Will we ever have a manager who will let the lads have a go against the big teams and not just try and pull up the drawbridge if we get our noses in front???

Seriously wasted opportunity against one of the most toothless Man Utd teams in years...

Si Murphy
46 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:06:53
Anyone defending Lukaku on here tonight needs to bury their heads, he was shocking, lazy and useless. I would have rather have played with an extra midfielder for all he provided us tonight.
Robert Elliott
47 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:07:37
Didn't get the Calvert-Lewin sub. I don't see what he offers at all at the moment. Hopefully in time he'll come good but he's not ready yet.

It's a sickening end, but in reality 7th is probably our lot for this season and most of us would have taken a point beforehand. Williams getting a straight red means we've got one senior centre-half for three games now. That's more of a concern.

Paul Birmingham
48 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:08:38
Great response from Everton, and and with some more discipline tonight could have been a great night, all -n-all it was a good night.

In my humble view, gutted, but all-in-all, EFC, put on a good show, and we could have been 2-0, at half-time if Lukaku had put in the obvious easy pass to Mirallas.

All-in-all, I'd say that tonight's game showed that there's not much difference between them and us; we tried to play and they resorted to type and huffed it.

Ashley Williams played a blinder as did Jagielka, Robles and Barry was immense.

A bit more guile and we'd have been in well ahead by half-time. The kids done well and will take a lot from this game. A good draw... now for The Foxes. The season is ours to make!


Roger Helm
49 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:08:45
It was going well till the substitutions. Barkley and Mirallas were both playing well.

When Calvert-Lewin came on, it was 10 v 11. All he did was fall over and cough up possession. In what way is he better than Valencia? Baffling.

But the score was fair. You can't play 45 minutes in your own half against a team with Ibrahimovic and expect to not concede.

Oliver Molloy
50 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:09:08
If Lukaku and Barkley had have got their heads and passed the ball to each other on the couple of occasions when they were both wide open we would have won this match tonight.

Koeman knows more football than I ever will but I just don't get the Mirallas substitution and then Barkley when I think young Davies should have been the one to come off.

But what annoyed me more than anything was having to listen to so-called impartial pundits / commentators willing Man Utd to equalise. They're all a bunch of total ball-lickers of the highest order.

Liam Reilly
51 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:09:30
Nothing wrong with trying to close the game out and restrict the opposition to long balls.

Unfortunately Koeman didn't have the personnel to do it. Mirallas should've stayed on.

Jim Bennings
52 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:10
He might have sorted the home form out but away from home the David Moyes mentality of "We'll hold what we have " is prevalent.

Man Utd were shit scared of Mirallas, he could have got us a second goal but no Koeman shits out and goes all out defensive.

You could have put a penny to a pound on these two results , sane as last season, a defeat at Anfield followed by another fucking hard luck story against Man Utd.

Honestly it never changes, we had a fantastic chance this season to sneak into the top four but again we flunk it.

I don't want Europa League – I fucking hate Thursday and Sunday football. It just gives the manager another excuse for bad results.

For the millions he's had he's made one good signing Schneiderlin, jury still out on Lookman, Bolasie, Williams shit and don't think Gana is as good as everyone thinks; decent but nothing more than a stopper.

Failed to address the lack of creativity, no real cover for Coleman or Baines and central defence bare. But most worryingly his mentality smacks too much of David Moyes.

Bob Skelton
53 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:46
Lukaku out to prove a point tonight. Never looked up once. Greedy bastard.
Gary Mortimer
54 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:11:47
The second half was excruciating.

As said above, the substitutions robbed us of any guile or skill and I am afraid Lawrence Llewyllyn-Bowen is just not up to it - talk about rabbit in the headlights.

Lukaku wanted any glory going all for himself, shooting whenever he got the ball in the first half and then having 3 good runs on goal in the second and not managing one shot. Definite proof that it's not all about lack of service.

I was disappointed with young Tom Davies as well, I did not see him touch the ball in the second half and he seems oddly one-paced when jogging around the pitch.

Jags MotM by a country mile.

To be honest, we did not deserve the win, but it would have been nice to sneak it.

Tony Hill
55 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:12:29
Very negative from the opening of the second half but I have no real complaint because Man Utd were more than worth a point and our players ran themselves to a standstill.

You can argue about the substitutions but would it really have made a difference keeping Mirallas on? I would, though, have brought on Valencia rather than Calvert-Lewin because I think that might have given us an edge at the end.

Yes, of course, there were moments when Lukaku and Barkley, in particular, should have done much better but this was vastly better than Saturday.

Barry was absolutely magnificent and Holgate showed what a very fine defender he's going to be. Jagielka and Williams also excellent – Holgate or Pennington at centre back on Sunday. I'd prefer Holgate against Leicester.

This season now is about enjoying ourselves and playing with some flair and confidence. It's what we need to see away from home next season.

Stan Schofield
56 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:12:49
Koeman TOTALLY fucked up again with those substitutions.

He gets ٤M/year. I'll offer to do his job for 10% of his salary, and promise In my contract not to make tactical decisions away from home that demonstrate fear and futile containment.

Come on Everton, try me out for 𧼐k for a season, what have you got to lose?

Mike Berry
57 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:15
Williams was superb tonight. The midfield worked tirelessly.

Lukaku was awful in his decision making and for me cost us the game, Mirallas writing a postcard while waiting for the pass for one on one with De Gea.

Barkley? What an infuriating player he must be for a Manager? Enough said on him on tonight's showing.

I nearly forgot: Holgate played beyond his years, well done.

Colin Hughes
58 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:20
Who says history doesn't repeat itself? Almost the same as last April when we got stuffed at Anfield then 4 days later suffered the heartbreak of an injury time Man Utd goal in the semi final.

This club never learns from its mistakes so expect more of the same next season, no silverware and no derby match victory. Everton, aren't we?

Roman Sidey
59 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:14:49
Anyone else reckon Robles could have had that save had Williams not thrown his arm in the way (although I acknowledge he was trying to head the ball)???

If Lukaku receives another pass like the one Calvert-Lewin gave to him towards the end, then I have no complaints with him wanting to leave. That was a pass from a player with serious issues.

A few weeks ago, the upcoming Leicester match would have been penciled in as a win. I'm still not in the pessimistic phase, but Jags is now our only fit, available senior centre-half for the next couple of weeks. Going to be interesting.

Ciarán McGlone
60 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:15:30
Likely had an Emile Hesky game tonight... He's an expert at blasting the ball at defenders. In fact he's world class at it...
Andy Crooks
61 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:15:52
After Saturday... that was good.
Brent Stephens
63 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:17:29
We were short of Coleman and Schneiderlin, and they had very good subs on the bench to choose from. I'd have taken a point before the game. But that substitution!?
Jack Cross
64 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:09
That's more like it. Very hard luck at the end. But I think we all would have yes to a draw. But being a minute away is a sickener.

Feel bad saying this but I feel we could have won it, if Lukaku, had been less greedy, when there was player's in better scoring positions. At least two with Barkley and Mirallas, better placed.

And when he as the ball taken off him, he just stand there looking pissed off.

What the hell was Mirallas taken off for? Surely he was our outlet.

Terry Farrell
65 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:21
I thought Ross and Kev where playing well. Man Utd threw more players into the box so an extra defender was the right sub to counter the threat.

I'm a big fan of The Ronald but couldn't agree with the Calvert-Lewin sub. He is off-form and was ineffective again. Valencia has the nouse to make a difference.

Jags and Barry played very well tonight. We could have done much more with our breakaways.

Nicholas Ryan
66 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:18:53
Why, why, why, does this 94th minute bollocks ALWAYS happen to us?!

If there is a God, I'm putting a contract out on him!

Andy Meighan
67 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:19:22
Sickener. But we got lucky with the so-called offside goal

Don't forget, we got a late penalty at Goodison so hey ho... But taking Mirallas off and bringing Pennington on was just baffling. They were ripe for the taking on the break and for me Mirallas looked a threat all game.

I hope no one comes on here and tries to defend Lukaku because, once again, he was shit. His control of a football is atrocious and I don't know how many moves broke down when he got the ball.

Also Calvert-Lewin on for Barkley... No, I don't think so. I can't see anything in the lad that makes me think he's going to be a player.

A fair result when you consider how deep we went in the last 20 mins but, with them negative subs, what did we expect? A much better showing than Saturday but still feels like a defeat after that late kick in the teeth

Kevin Rowlands
68 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:19:30
Anyone who has watched the last 2 games and still thinks Lukaku is worth £90 million is either dishonest or more than likely off their rocker.

Hopefully he gets his wish this summer.

Mick Davies
69 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:20:28
We went to Anfield with inexperienced kids and got wasted. Koeman learns his lesson, changes things around; we go to Old Trafford and are toe-to-toe with the home side and leading 1-0.

So what does this 'master tactician do? Takes off our most dangerous player and brings the kids on again. Result? Backs to the wall, under siege just waiting for the inevitable.

Anyone who thinks we'll win things under this obscenely well-paid buffoon is deluded. He threw away both cup chances, and in the space of 3 days, has thrown away any slender chance of improving our position in the league. Sorry, but we'd have done better if he'd left the team selection to the fans. Fuming!

James Owen
70 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:21:18
I agree with comments here. Taking off "the wizard" when he was in the zone was really really foolish. Man Utd were reduced to playing the long ball game in the end, they were desperate. Having Mirallas would have helped us to counter-attack, deliver from corners/ crosses etc.

Also I would have liked to see Valencia on instead of Calvert-Lewin, as he seemed to be starting to link up well with Lukaku in games where they have both featured.

The team fought hard, but Koeman's poor choices of substitution cost us the game here and I'm sure he knows it. If he doesn't we're in trouble. Like Martinez all over again.
Tony Hill
71 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:22:22
Another good point is that West Brom are now 7 points behind with a very inferior goal difference.

Interesting to hear that Man Utd have only 3 home games left and some difficult ones away. We could still sneak up a place or two.

One lovely moment from Holgate when he stuffed Rashford and then dinked a pass down the wing. Calm and poised – he'll make big errors, no doubt, but my word he's going to be a proper Everton player.

Tom needs a rest – he's been fantastic for us.

Patrick Murphy
72 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:01
All the years I've been watching Everton, we have never been very good at sitting back and soaking up pressure, but for some reason all of our managers in the last 20 years seem to think that we are capable of holding onto slender leads away from home.

Everton very rarely have been able to do that and with the lack of proper attacking intent in a thoughtful and measured way – not the suicide tactics of Roberto – we would probably have added a few points to our total over the years.

The fashion of having one striker up front with no proper wingers doesn't really work when you don't have much possession. As Stan says, these guys who pick the team and select the tactics are paid ridiculous sums of money but they all seem to lack common sense and tend to make things worse rather than better on occasion.


David Barks
73 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:17
Kevin,

And if you watched the last two games and still wonder why Lukaku wants to get the fuck out of a club that leaves him isolated while he has to watch the opposition flood our box with attack after attack, you're either dishonest or off your rocker.

Seriously, you think he'd be sitting up top all alone with only Calvert-Lewin in support if he was at Real Madrid?

Paul Birmingham
74 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:38
Jags is now key in the next few games. We have no central defenders?

Romelu take heed, and I'm sure tonight the lessons of team spirit etc andprofessionalism will strike home.

There's no way in my view the so-called Top Teams will come calling?

Class and style and experience strike to mind, plus respect. C'est la vie...

Kieran Kinsella
75 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:23:57
Get a grip. Koeman's record versus the two Manchester money bag power houses this season:

Played 4, won 1, drew 3. Scored 7, conceded 3.

Tony Kost
76 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:02
Roman Sidey 59 - your comment

"If Lukaku receives another pass like the one Calvert-Lewin gave to him towards the end, then I have no complaints with him wanting to leave. That was a pass from a player with serious issues."

I don't quite get the comment... it reads Calvert-Lewin has the serious issues (when we know it's Rom). Calvert-Lewin shouldn't have come on anyway – he has contributed zilch in 2 games now.

Holgate played well after he had settled – just the poor substitutions cost us.

Andrew Keatley
77 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:08
I think Koeman decided to go 3 at the back because Mourinho (aka Dave Bassett) decided to push Fellaini up alongside Ibrahimovic and go long ball after 60 minutes.

The problem for us is that 3 at the back puts a huge strain on the midfield to close down the ball; Davies, Gana and Barry were working so hard while Barkley and Lukaku mostly just amble around.

Barry and Jagielka were excellent. Baines continues to get back to form, and Holgate was much improved. Williams worked hard and put his body on the line, but he doesn't seem at full fitness to me.

Not sure why Koeman took Mirallas off – he's consistently a threat on the break, and is a quick-thinker. Barkley was blowing from half-time. There was a moment soon before Barkley came off when Lukaku was one on one with Bailly, who slid in to concede a corner. Commentators were criticising Lukaku for not picking out Barkley, but Ross was jogging about 40 yards away – when if he'd made a proper run and found space then he might have given Lukaku a decent option and received the ball on his own about 20 yards from goal.

Sad to say this but I am finally coming to terms with the fact that Barkley just lacks what it takes to be a top player.

Phil Walling
78 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:10
A bigger comic than Martinez. Koeman is yet another no-mark manager!
George Cumiskey
79 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:24:52
We could've won the game if it wasn't for Koeman's poor substitutions again. He should have bought Lookman and Valencia on. Bitterly disappointed!
Brian Williams
80 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:25:24
The good, the bad, and the ugly.

The good was effort and heart, the bad was missed opportunities due in part to someone not realising it's a team game, the ugly was the substitutions.

Mark Morrissey
81 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:25:40
The best way to defend is to attack. They were all over the place following the substitutions. Koeman will rue taking Kev off. Never mind.

Lots of positives from the players but if only Koeman had not bottled it. Valencia instead of Calvert-Lewin and leave all else alone.

Dean Rolstone
82 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:26:21
Absolutely gutted with the final result, so close to a priceless win away to one of the 'top 6'. Ashley could've left the shot and Joel more than likely would've saved it. It's a shame as I thought he had a solid game up until that point.

The tactical switch to 5 at the back was puzzling at the time and left us with no out ball other than Rom. Although I thought Pennington did well when he came on.

The performance was much better than the weekend but I'm totally deflated after that last minute equaliser. Hopefully take this performance on to the match against Leicester and get the 3 points.

Chris Corn
83 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:26:52
Glad Holgate seemed to do well. The kids were all garbage and never going to make it according to some after Saturday.

Poor old Calvert-Lewin is getting it on the live forum. Didn't see much of it so I can't comment but we pray for a hero to emerge from the youth ranks and if they don't do it straight away they get dog's abuse. It's a tough audience alright!

As for Lukaku. My thoughts after the Hull game were that the true measure of where he is as a player would be if we came away from these two games with at least three points and he'd bagged a goal or two. He did neither and didn't influence either game positively. Still he's our main goal threat and will hold us to ransom regardless.

Ernie Baywood
84 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:27:50
The players showed the real problem didn't they?

Narrow and defensive – Ross and Rom look useless. Add an extra body in attack and get into dangerous wide positions – they look threatening.

It's not a difficult code to crack is it?

Ron must be a brilliant trainer, because his failure to grasp the most obvious tactical issues is astounding. £6M a year!!!

Roman Sidey
85 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:28:30
Tony Kost, my comment meant that the pass was probably the most woeful piece of football I've seen in a very long time.
Peter Holland
86 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:30:32
We were missing Schneiderlin in the holding position; what that gives us is a bit more control. I think that's the difference in the last 2 games.
Keith Monaghan
87 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:31:23
Can't quite figure out who was our worst player – the ref or Dross Barkley... the latter is clueless and lazy.
Ernie Baywood
88 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:32:22
Chris (#83), he's young so maybe there's time but I'm not sure what we see in him. Not quick, not inventive, not full of energy, not particularly good on the ball. I don't know if he's a poacher? Even if he is, what would be the logic in putting him into that game tonight?

Feels like Ronald is just trying to make a point about having limited options. It couldn't be that though, could it? He wouldn't sabotage this season to make a point for next season?

David Barks
89 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:32:27
If you're proud that the manager decided to play as if we were a non-league side in a FA Cup match at Old Trafford for the last 30 minutes of the match, you're supporting the wrong club. That in no way is good enough for a club like Everton.

Not a single player around Europe or anywhere else would have looked at that and said "Yes, that club's going places, I want to play there". Instead they'd look at that and say "No thanks, must be a small club. I don't want to do nothing but defend at Old Trafford, lets see if Spurs have a spot for me.".

We just handed them the ball for the last half hour with absolutely no intent to attack. Even when on a counter attack, at one point we stopped and looked around to see if we should continue going forward or just give the ball away and retreat. Well, we decided to retreat. That was pathetic. I'm not proud, I'm embarrassed.

Jim Bennings
90 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:15
If I had to sum up this season.

Nowhere near as good as Martinez's first season, more stable than last two season but basically the same as Moyes's final season.

I see progress but I'd suggest with the money available its been mediocre progress.

A lot can be achieved in a managers first season (look at Ranieri at Leicester) and I truly feel it's another massive opportunity missed this season to get top four.

Darren Hind
91 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:16
David Barks

If you watched the last two games you would no longer wonder why so many fans want Lukaku to go.

This is a selfish, selfish player and you have just been given two perfect reasons why the big boys are not interested.

I could not believe my eyes when I saw Lukaku complain about Williams handling it when he had just given the ball up in a Two v Two situation.

Simply unforgivable to just quit and let the United player run away from him. It was the 92nd minute, ffs!!!

Stan Schofield
92 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:56
Okay, let's get a grip. Give Koeman time, another two years, after which we'll know beyond all reasonable doubt that he's useless at marshalling an attacking Everton performance away from home. Then we can get rid of him, after spending another futile 㾸M on this manager's salary.

What the hell is going on here?

Colin Hughes
93 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:34:58
Mark my words ,Moyes will end up Everton manager again sometime soon. In a funny way, I would like to see him with some real money to spend – after all he did find Cahill, Arteta, Coleman, Martyn, Stones, Pienaar and Mirallas to name just a few on the cheap.

Most of Koeman's signings so far have been questionable and he has spent an awful lot to get fuck all.

Dave Bowen
94 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:35:56
I only saw the 2nd half, but that team should have been the Derby team. Anyhow, Lukaku & Barkley way too slow in attack. Why take Kev off, he had them rattled?

If Niasse is worse than Clavert-Lewin, he must have only 1 leg. Koeman needs to leave him in the U-21s for a long, long time.

His bizarre substitutions cost us 3 points. No complaints about the pen even though Robles might have had it covered. But a red card? Surely only a yellow, Ashley was trying to head the ball away.

Danny Broderick
95 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:36:35
We were seconds away from a cracking 3 points tonight. I wouldn't criticise anyone.

I thought the players put in a hell of a shift, and the manager has to make subs to give the team legs towards the end. You could debate whether he should have brought on Valencia instead of Calvert-Lewin, but who knows how it would have played out if Valencia had come on.

There were some cracking performances in there tonight – Barry and Gueye were outstanding, and the whole defence had a cracking game.

Even Barkley was much improved, and I thought that was one of Lukaku's better performances for us. I know he didn't score, but he held the ball up when required, and was a nuisance throughout.

A much improved performance from Saturday.

Sue Brown
96 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:36:42
A lot of negative reaction again on here.

The performance was 100% better than Saturday. Barry was superb, my MotM, Jags certainly put a shift in and let's not forget Robles, a few great saves tonight.

Lukaku..? I'm sick of hearing about his lack of service, yes that's true, but when is he going to learn to control the ball better. If he's in the shop window I can't see many coming in for him on his last 2 performances.

Martin Keown spoke some truth there tonight, it's no good him yelling at Williams telling him how to defend if he can't do his own job properly!

Peter Mills
97 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:37:38
We just cannot afford Ross Barkley giving the ball away so often.
Patrick Murphy
98 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:37:43
Ernie there may be an element of truth in that idea, which is not good if your theory proves correct. Koeman's job like every other manager is to get positive results for his club and not to make statements about the quality of the squad.

By taking off Kevin and Ross, he has upset two players and probably the rest of the team; which other major or even minor club would put two inexperienced players into the cauldron of Old Trafford when they are under the cosh and when both of those players didn't acquit themselves particularly well last Saturday? What has happened to Lookman?

David Barks
99 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:38:38
Really Darren,

You think Rom quit? Koeman threw away any ideas of attack with 30 minutes to play!! Lukaku was running the channels and taking 3 Man Utd defenders on over and over again. He had nobody, not a single person, up in support.

I actually want him to go now, I'm sick of hearing so many clueless reactions. I want to see who you blame next season.

Kevin Rowlands
100 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:40:56
David B, I have no interest in having a long tiring and boring debate with you. Myself, I support Everton FC, the team and the club – not Romelu Lukaku's Ego FC, he's nowhere near as good as he thinks he is. You disagree with me, no problem. The TEAM will be better off when he's gone, imho.
Tony Kost
101 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:40:58
Thanks, Roman – You're right – the pass from Dom to Rom was apalling. If it pissed Rom off, I'd agree with him.

Dom might be the future but at the moment he is inexperienced (two very big games for him in a reshuffled team). He is out of his depth. Maybe Rom (the lump!) intimidates him... Shhhhhhhhh!

Dross Barkley – sums him up at the moment. His return to form was down to Morgan's excellent performances in midfield. They took the pressure of Ross and he performed well.

Since the loss of Schneiderlin, we seem to have lost Ross as well (on the pitch anyway!)

Darren Hind
102 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:41:55
Yours is the clueless reaction. You want to exonerate him of absolutely everything.

Did you not see him try to cut in and lose the ball. He simply downed tools and he wasn't on his own – Calvert-Lewin was with him and it was 2 vs 2.

Tony Twist
103 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:42:58
That second half sums up the short-comings of the team and especially the manager. Koeman is Moyes Mk 2, maybe it's because he was a defender by trade like Moyes but any successful team has intent, has outlets in the team, whether it's hanging on time or not, removing Mirallas removed the outlet that we had.

The game has certainly opened my eyes to the possibilities of if we lose Lukaku and Barkley in the summer that it may not be disastrous if we can get strikers that want to score and fight the cause for their fellow forwards.

Chris Corn
104 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:43:38
Ernie (#88), I didn't see the second half so I can't comment as I've not seen enough of the lad. I don't think Koeman would deliberately do these things and has probably made poor choices.

To me, Koeman has yet to do anything to suggest he will break into that top six. Just like I am apathetic towards Lukaku and Barkley because I just think they do not contribute when it matters.

We need an influx of staff and players who are able to go to those above us and expect to win. We do not have the spending power to get those top level players in.

Tonight's equaliser was as inevitable as Saturday's defeat. It is what we do, because we are mentally weak – from the boardroom down.

Ray Roche
105 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:43:43
David Barks (#73),

"You think he'd (Lukaku) be sitting up top all alone with only Calvert-Lewin in support if he was at Real Madrid"

Lukaku has no more chance of playing for Real Madrid than you or me. If he'd read the game better, we'd have won by three clear goals.

Unless and until he learns to bring others into play and move his arse into top gear more often, he'll continue to frustrate. I'll leave his first touch... tragic – for another time.

Oliver Molloy
106 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:44:59
Colin Hughes,

Thank you for making me laugh very loud. Moyes!!!

Lewis Abbott
107 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:45:06
I cannot fault a single player tonight, not even wWilliams. My grudges all lie with Koeman.

The game management towards the end was shocking. When he made the substitution on about 70 minutes, he conceded the game to a Manchester side that weren't offering anything at the time.

After that, alls we did was sit back and didn't have anything meaningful in their half for the rest of the game. He gambled we would hold on. The substitution should have been like for like for Kev.

As the game moved on we held our own and United didn't press us too much and the opportunity could have been their for a decent counter attack but again he made the wrong substitution by bringing on Calvert-Lewin who offered nothing and leaving Valencia on the bench who is much clever with the ball and has much more pace.

And then in centre midfield, as we got into the last few minutes, our three midfielders where all on yellows and short on energy. I know we only had the young lad on the bench but we could and should have used him so at least someone in there could tackle.

And back to my first point, I can criticise one player: Rom. Again he went missing when we needed him most. Champions League clubs are welcome too him because he just doesn't cut it against good teams.

He moaned about trophies and Champions League, well if he would have scored his chances in the cup last year and turned up in the last two games maybe he could have had both.

Roman Sidey
109 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:46:29
Colin Hughes - wow.
Seamus McCrudden
110 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:47:08
I thought Rom was poor. Twice he should have played another player in for two-nil and game over. He plays for himself. Team fucking Rom.
Stan Schofield
111 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:48:29
There's the usual anti-Lukaku diversion going on again here. It will serve you right if he leaves. He's been left isolated consistently by Koeman's tactics, which have been lamentable (a posh term for total shite) away from home. I am frustrated by Koeman's decision making, not by Lukaku's play. Unbelievable.
Seamus McCrudden
112 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:49:05
Lol, Colin!
David Barks
113 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:49:56
Like I said, Kevin, I hope we do sell him. I look forward to the next scapegoat. Teams always improve when their record goalscorer leaves, that happens every time doesn't it.

I'm sure players will be lining up across Europe to come to Everton so that they can be left up top on their own against United, Spurs, Liverpool, chasing aimless hoofs from the keeper or defense.

I'm sure they saw one of only three attacking players being subbed for a teenage defender with 30 minutes to play and said, what ambition! I want to play there!

Bill Gienapp
114 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:50:10
I didn't agree with the substitutions either, but I think people are getting a bit worked up, attacking Koeman for his lack of "bravery."

I didn't see anyone around here applauding Roberto for having no clue how to see out a victory and constantly throwing away wins with his swashbuckling attitude.

Not sure why Koeman is so smitten with Calvert-Lewin at the moment, nor why he seems to have lost any and all interest in Lookman.

Ultimately, it was a cruel outcome, but not an unjust one. We had our opportunities to put the match away and couldn't do it. But people wanted a show of heart after the derby, if nothing else, and I feel like we got that.

Peter Cummings
115 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:53:03
This was another Koeman blunder, taking one of our better players off with 20 mins left on the clock and replacing him with virtually an inexperienced novice was inviting the inevitable, no wonder Kev showed his disgust.

I have criticised Williams from day one ,today I felt sorry for him, the replays showed he headed the ball down along his arm, an obvious pen, not really deserving of a red though, after he had sweated blood in defence as did most of our 'geriatrics'.

Jags in particular along with Bainsy, was superb but Davies was clearly off the pace,. I thought Lukaku should have done a lot better, he had at least three clear runs on goal but was tackled off the ball every time.

On the whole the result was correct in that United had a good goal ruled out for a 'non-offside' call, I believe that the offside rule needs addressing to only penalise clear offsides by at least a foot.

After the Anfield fiasco, this result was a breath of fresh air, well done you Blues.

Ste Traverse
116 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:54:09
I've heard it all now. Some clown telling us yesterday's man Moyes is going to be our manager again soon???

The only people who would love to see that are the Sunderland fans!

Stan Schofield
117 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:54:43
Bill, it wasn't cruel, it was self-inflicted. We threw it away. Lack of winning mentality, lack of killer instinct.
Dave Abrahams
118 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:55:52
Whose decision was it to bring Valencia to the club from West Ham Utd? I don't think Koeman had anything to do with it. If he did, why is he not using him?

If Lukaku ever dreams he is playing for Real Madrid, he would wake up and fall out of bed.

Chris Corn
119 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:58:04
In Koeman's defence, I would suggest that if we finish 7th which is the likely scenario ,and qualify for Europe, then this season can only be seen as successful.
John Pierce
120 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:58:22
Lukaku isolated? Well not tonight. In the second half he had Mirallas, then Barkley then Calvert-Lewin. We had at least half a dozen counter attacks in the 2nd half.

The hilarious bit yes he was isolated but in one whole half of football field with numerous one on ones with a tenacious but limited defender in Rojo. Not once did he deliver. That's how you take the pressure off your teammates.

His reactions to giving the ball up when every other player was plumbing the depths of their fitness was to throw his hands up and amble back.

Make your own mind up. Mine, love his goals... the rest leaves the sourest of tastes in my head.

Darren Hind
121 Posted 04/04/2017 at 22:59:27
And if Koeman is going to be managing in Barcelona, he must be buying a restaurant!!!
Tony Abrahams
122 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:00:29
Lukaku does great running at Man Utd's last two defenders, then shoots with his right foot when one of them slides and goes to ground?

Why couldn't he drop his shoulder and then knock it across the box to the unmarked Barkley? That's what top players do, even if it is easy to see from the side.

Paul Birmingham
123 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:00:32
Every game is now a final this season and the club must make sure for all EFC,supporters that the team tries, learns and lives the history. Starting tonight...

Now's the time to turn a corner for good! "What's Our Name?"

Jay Harris
124 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:01:04
Thought when Rom decided to put a shift in we were the better team in the first half. Then he reverted to type the second half and would not hold the ball up or chase for it and we came under pressure.

But a great performance with almost a win at a ground where they haven't lost for 30 odd games and without 4 key players. We should not be negative after that performance.

David Barks
125 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:02:04
Barkley was not unmarked, he was completely out of the play jogging. He was not bursting into the box and ignored, he was completely out of the play.
Kieran Kinsella
126 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:03
We all like a moan but I think some of the comments in the last four days are out of line. Especially with regard to the youngsters.

For years, people on here hounded Moyes for playing Neville in midfield and said he should give youth a chance in the form of Baxter, Kissock etc. Ditto Martinez for not playing Garbutt.

Now we have a coach who through circumstance is giving youth a chance over journeymen like Kone and Valencia and he and the kids are being crucified.

They're youngsters. Some may make some may not but if I were a youngster reading remarks about Holgate on Saturday or Calvert-Lewin tonight, I'd stay away from this club.

Oliver Molloy
127 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:06
Ste,

Absolutely laughing me bollocks off!

Roman Sidey
128 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:28
My thoughts exactly, Bill. Had Koeman gone for more goals and Man Utd had scored earlier and gone for (and perhaps gotten) an winner, people would be complaining that he didn't shut up shop at 0-1 up. I'm not saying I agree with his subs, but whatever he did, fans on here would be critical.

If Lukaku leaves, I will be gutted. He's a talent that we haven't had in a long time. I wouldn't excuse his attitude, but there was a counter-attack tonight from him and Barkley, and the third man in, Gueye, was about 8 seconds after they'd entered the 18-yard box. That is a long fucking time to wait for options.

People go on and on about supporting Everton and expecting the best, and then some of the same people can't wait to see the back of our best striker in over 20 years.

Ferguson may have been a fighter, but he scored fuck all goals. Campbell may have saved our arse at one point but he scored fuck all goals. Beattie, Johnson, Saha, Jelavic, etc etc etc... all scored fuck all goals in the grand scheme of things.

Colin Glassar
129 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:06:34
Proud of the lads tonight, every one of them. Ronald mucked up with the subs and that changed the rhythm of our play.

Loved the aggro and even the bitch fight between Rom and Williams. Some much needed passion at last.

Tony Abrahams
130 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:07:22
Out of play? Only for Lukaku, David!
Jim Bennings
131 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:10:14
Must admit I need to spend the rest of the night trying to figure out why Koeman pays £10 million for Lookman but now prefers the lumbering less mobile Calvert-Lewin to the zippy ex Charlton man.

Takes Mirallas off when the Belgian was looking bang up for it causing them knuckle dragging mutants all sorts of worry.

If you must take Mirallas off, why not Valencia who will put a shift in?

Could have won that 2-0 but drew it 1-1 , story of supporting a glass ceiling club.

Roman Sidey
132 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:13:48
Agreed about the barney, Colin. This team needs a bit of mongrel aggro nastiness if they're going to win anything, or as our outside centre used to say before a match, "Get some cunt into ya!"
Danny Broderick
134 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:15:24
I don't understand the negativity on here tonight. That performance was a million miles better than Saturday.

Rom had 3 or 4 attempts on the counter. There were a few balls squared across the box just asking for a tap in. We had a good go at them as the away team, but having gone 1-0 up, it was inevitable we were going to come under the cosh 2nd half.

Pennington did well so that sub justified itself. Having the extra defender on kept them out.

Regarding Calvert-Lewin, I'm yet to be impressed by the lad. But he was brought on as fresh legs for Barkley. The team needed legs at the end there. The only other alternative was Valencia for me, as Lookman is also a baby, and like Calvert-Lewin, he could probably do with at least another year before being considered for the first team. With the injuries we have got, we simply don't have the strength in depth to replace some of our first team players like for like.

We were so unlucky with that penalty. Williams just couldn't resist using his hand, to be fair it was flying into the corner of the net if he hadn't handled it anyway.

I'll take the positives from tonight all day long. Robles was solid, and the defence was brilliant. Gueye and Barry were outstanding, and ,I thought Davies, Barkley and Lukaku put in a proper shift. I certainly felt that Barkley and Lukaku were much improved on Saturday's performance.

Add Funes Mori, Coleman, Schneiderlin and Bolasie into the mix, and we have got the makings of a good squad here, with a good manager. If we can bring in a keeper, a centre-half and a striker in the summer, we'll be top 6 next season.

There's lots to be positive about tonight.

Stan Schofield
135 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:16:33
I suppose it must be a good thing that we're pissed off at getting only a point at ManUtd, rather than seeing a point as a result. But that takes nothing away from the bewildering substitution decision-making.
Steve Barr
136 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:17:12
It's all been said.

Much better performance after the Liverpool debacle but Koeman's substitutions were very, very poor.

By the way, this immediate red card, 3 match suspension (can't be true?), plus a penalty is ludicrous. Makes as much sense as Ron's substitutions.

Kieran Kinsella
137 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:19:22
Jim,

Lookman's a funny one. Initially Koeman indicated he'd be in the Under23s and was one for the future. Then right away he was in the first team. Now he's gone.

Did he just have a lucky week in training when he first arrived? Did the good start go this head and affect his attitude in training?

Paul Windrum
138 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:19:58

Still winding my way home... but my initial comments are that it was a poor game involving two teams that both looked like mid-table fodder. Positives were few. I have never known our away fans so quiet. Because, basically, it was a tense nervy game to watch.

Positives: Davies and Gueye worked their socks off and did a good job.

Our main weakness was good n defence, which looked frail from the kick off. Our saving grace was that their attack is slow and ponderous. Still, they made a number of chances in both halves and looked like they couldn't hit the proverbial barn door.

Negatives were many tonight. I mean, it really was dire.

Williams was losing it with his teammates almost from the start of the second half. Plus there were three bread 'n butter crosses where he lost out to Ibrahimovic. Then lost his head for the penalty which, from where I was sat, Robles would have saved anyway. He is not the answer to our defence. Need shut of him.

By contrast, Jags had a good game tonight. Lukaku was poor. Admittedly he didn't get much service. But when he did get the ball he was selfish. There was one opportunity second half where he broke down the right. Barkley was in acres of space. Didn't even look up. At 2-0 they would have been dead and buried.

The tactics... Well we ended up with 6 or 7 defenders on the pitch at the end. There was no outlet when we did get the ball, and possession was turned over quickly.

Well, at least Moshiri seemed happy as he passed by at the end of the game (I was in the queue waiting for the train). He had a big smile on his face.

Maybe he knows something that I don't. I hope so!

Eugene Ruane
139 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:20:11
Colin Hughes # 93 - Mark my words Moyes will end up Everton manager again sometime soon. In a funny way I would like to see him with some real money to spend...'

In a 'funny way' I'd like to nail my ball bag to the kitchen table then set myself on fire.

Patrick Murphy
140 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:27:51
Danny (#135),

I don't think many if any posters are moaning about the commitment levels of most if not all of players or that it wasn't a significant improvement on Saturday. Rather it was the way we reverted to defending at all costs and forgot how to keep the ball for any length of time and with little or no hope of building meaningful attacks once Barkley and Mirallas had left the fray.

Steve (#136),

I could understand a straight red if Williams had have flown through the air and tipped it over the bar with his hand, he tried to head the ball, mis-timed it and reacted by getting his arm in the way – definite penalty but not a red card. Replays showed that Robles would probably have got to the ball if Williams had allowed it to go past him – it wasn't even a good shot from the Man Utd player but that's life.

Kieran (#137)

I might be wrong but I thought it was Koeman himself who was publicly talking up Lookman, which means that it is even stranger that the lad hasn't had a run out in the last few weeks.

Derek Thomas
141 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:29:12
Ron (the dutch Moyes) Koeman 1 (og) – Everton 1 (Jagielka)
Carl Taylor
142 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:32:07
Those on the live forum and Joel Robles himself, my arse was Joel going to save Shaw' shot. He was dropping to his knees to wave it in like he did on Saturday. So I'm not having Williams take any blame.

What BT highlighted about Williams and Lukaku, that tells me all you need to know about how good Lukaku thinks he is. I don't rate Williams, but I hope he decked Lukaku in the changing rooms.

I really hope Calvert-Lewin becomes the player Koeman thinks he is, because I don't see it. That substitution cost us the win, along with Barkley and Lukaku being unable to lift their heads when required. If they could do that, then we are 2 up by half time and the game is done.

Finally, I hated hearing the Everton manager saying he'd have signed to take a point before the game. That's "knife to a gunfight" talk!

Si Murphy
143 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:32:13
If Arouna Kone had given the two performances Lukaku has just dished out, people would be screaming blue murder. Yet pundits keep giving him the "lack of service" free ride excuse.

He is no team player and one thing is for sure, whichever team have him in their side won't win trophies because you need someone who will dig in and work hard for his mates to win in difficult situations, not go missing as he always does.
Chris Corn
144 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:33:24
I think Eugene has emphatically ended any Moyes debate that may have been coming. Quality!!!
Joe Clitherow
145 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:33:43
Generally, I like Lukaku as an Everton player. He is certainly the best goalscorer I think we could get at the moment. But I have to take issue with you David Barks, as a fellow Lukaku fan.

World class players, which Lukaku thinks he is but isn't at the moment, know all of their options including the opponent's box and which ones are better. He had me screaming several times tonight when we had men over in the counter attack and he took ridiculous pot shots.

Shoot on sight is something we have been crying out for from shot-shy Everton for years but not every single time, FFS!! Barkley WAS unmarked on more than one occasion.

Answer me this: would Dennis Bergkamp, a genuine world class player, have shot on every occasion or would he have pulled back to a team mate in a better position? If the bar is too high with Bergkamp what about Thomas Muller?

Suarez – Lukaku tried to compare himself with Suarez. He is nowhere near as good as he thinks he is because if he had a fraction of that world class player nous we would definitely be sitting 5th above Man Utd tonight.

He is crap from end of March onwards when his dad and his agent tell him how good he is and start angling for a move. Having said that, he is still the best forward we have had in years and I'm glad we have him. Just infuriating sometimes, like tonight.

David Hallwood
147 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:34:30
Agree with all about the sub's and with Calvert-Lewin. Such a frustrating performance, we seem incapable of playing counter-attack like we did so successfully under Bobby, with Ross & Rom both being guilty of not putting the game to bed.

Ross is the most infuriating player since Peter Beagrie in that he seems incapable with the ball at his feet just to run in a straight line; instead he's ponderous, checking back to let the defenders get back.

On another note; this is the first time I've watched a game on BT in a house as opposed to a pub, so I was able to hear the post match comments, and it was like a Stretford end fanzine, with Everton mentioned only in passing.

The Manc chances were analysed, but the Everton chances weren't shown!! The non-footballer analyst only wanted to talk about the Mancs. Fucking disgusting and I certainly won't be parting with my money for that.

Joe Clitherow
148 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:36:29
Eugene, "in a funny way" I'd like to video that, but Beadle has sadly shuffled off this mortal coil.
Patrick Murphy
149 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:36:46
A tad harsh on Joel, Carl, I thought he did most things right tonight considering he had a mare last Saturday, I'll take your word for it about the penalty incident and accept it would have flown past Joel.
Bill Gall
150 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:40:03
Regardless if Koeman made wrong choices, to come away with a point never mind being less than 1 min from 3, this was a hard fought point that very few people believed we were capable of getting. This was a team effort and should rebuild some confidence that was lost on Saturday.

The manager has to believe he makes the correct choices otherwise he should not be a manager. Without Coleman, he had to change his tactics as he never had the attacking options the Coleman gives.

We have a small squad to choose from and with the injuries it is getting smaller, maybe he is trying these youngsters to see how they improve in the big games as we made need them if we get into Europe.

If we had held out to the final whistle, I doubt if we would have so much negativity.

Phil Bellis
151 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:42:34
You couldn't make it up... but we gave a performance and them a bloody nose; summary... Bollocks!
Carl Taylor
152 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:43:53
Patrick, I agree that Robles played well, but he wasn't going to get that shot. It was his gobbing off to Mirallas that he would have got it that annoyed me.

The saves he made from Rashford, although offside Robles didn't know that, and Herrera were superb and would still be being spoken about by BT pundits if De Gea had made them.

Joe Clitherow
153 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:43:59
David,

BT Sport were like that all game. Alan "Kop Ender" Parry et al were willing United to score all game. I turned off straight after the whistle.

Joke Humphrey is the worst Sky 4/5/6 homer presenter on the box. The other teams apparently are only supposed to turn up and take their medicine from the favoured ones.

Peter Roberts
154 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:44:23
That over-rated prima donna needs to be ejected from our club asap. Get whatever we can for him – he's toxic. Ashley Williams- stand proud, you outed him for what he is.

Unfortunately his fanboys will defend him despite deciding not to try in the derby and then just doing what he wanted tonight.

What a pity that a superbly talented finisher and athlete is nothing more than a spoilt brat with an awful attitude.

Personally I'm disgusted in the Everton fans who have indulged him whilst he has continually disrespected the name and reputation of our club.

Douglas McClenaghan
155 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:46:15
I have no problem with Calvert-Lewin over Valencia. Koeman is tough and his attitude would be get out there and show us what you can do, son. He has to have one eye on the future and now is the time to see whether the youngsters have it or don't, and to put some big game experience into them.

Valencia has no future here, he's a stop-gap; Calvert-Lewin, maybe does.

Joe Clitherow
156 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:46:37
Carl,

Robles may well have got to the shot if his vision wasn't directly blocked by Williams who then did all he could to give the impression he had headed it. A no-win situation which now leaves us with only one recognised first-team centre-half for the visit if Leicester City.

Patrick Murphy
157 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:52:10
Joe (#153),

I never listen to the commentary from either Sky or BT, they are only interested in boosting sales of subscriptions and advertising around the globe; therefore they are primed to pander to the biggest audience. Unfortunately, that doesn't include Everton or any of the sides outside of the 'big six'.

Ciarán McGlone
158 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:53:24
Koeman thinks we deserved to win. Can't say I agree.
Joe Clitherow
159 Posted 04/04/2017 at 23:55:54
A penalty 13 seconds from the end? I think Koeman has a point.
John Pierce
160 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:01:47
The performance was over the piece a lost opportunity. Don't care if we were banged up, they were too and it showed.

A first half performance which was one to be happy with. We yielded very little, they moved the ball at a snail's pace and it made us grow into the game.

I even thought Lukaku won us some ground with free kicks. Mirallas knew we could win – why the rest didn't I have no idea.

The second half is on the manager, the negative approach handed them the initiative. Even then with Pogba and Mkhitaryan on the pitch, he didn't have the balls to take off Barkley early enough and subsequently Lukaku.

United played two at the back and rolled the dice. Any decent manager would have worked out one mistake and we were in, game over. Valencia and Mirallas would have had the pace, dribbling and work rate to score and put the game to bed.

His mindset was recalcitrant and staid. Why do we need a point? We needed three.

Holgate, bar one early missed tackle, was excellent. I expect to see him partner Jagielka on Saturday, with Kenny at right back.

Gana was great, Barry survived in a game which was played at his pace, Jags was good but the same goes for him, played at a tempo he liked.

Davies just needs the ball, the lad gains energy from possession. Our tactics in the second half just starved him and reduced him to a shuttle runner.

The manager has in the space of four days dropped the ball here. Yet a growing body of work that stinks when we go away from home.

Plenty to think on.

Ian Smitham
161 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:03:33
Fair report, Lyndon. I had the chance to go to the game tonight, but had to decline a box, no less. Work meant I could not get there even though I live 10 miles away.

Been to that place many times, Duncan, Bob the Pole, Sheedies penalty miss, Altrincham.

Watched from a pub tonight, full of Man Utd.

Started the game nice and steady, we scored and had chances, defended well, blah blah.

Got to the end and was gutted, sometimes I wish I never bother, they don't bother about me, last weekend was poor, really poor. I can not help myself. And don't want to.

By and large tonight I thought we were good, as I sat there with the United fans screeching their views, I looked at my Everton and just implored that they held on. It is the hope that kills you.

Just gutted, not just for me, but the supporters who went and gave every energy they could to to the team. They went; total respect.

I wish I was a better blue.

Sorry to ramble, no need to reply, just gutted. Thanks.


Kevin Rowlands
162 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:05:29
Joe C,

I appreciate your honesty on Lukaku. I am a huge Barkley fan but will admit that he needs to improve certain things in his game especially his decision-making; I am also on record on here saying that I thought he was awful in the derby.

For whatever reason David B and others to be fair will not accept or give out criticism on Lukaku no matter what he says or how he performs, they honestly remind me of Donald jackass Trump supporters, it's always someone else's fault!

As always, Peter, you've put it better than I ever could, I hope he's gone this summer.

Geoff Lambert
163 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:09:31
Peter Roberts you numpty Ha Ha.
You always make me laugh with your silly jokes.
Paul Tran
164 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:09:57
I'm trying to work Koeman out here. He's doing what Martinez should have done; get rid of the deadwood and blood the kids.

I'm wondering whether he's simply lost faith in some of the (not good enough) experienced players and has decided the kids are the answer until such time as he finds some quality players.

I can see why he bought Calvert-Lewin on, as we needed someone to hold the ball up. Problem was he didn't really do it. When he did it, he got little help off Lukaku, who was willing to hold the ball and go to the corner flag to eat up time.

If I was Lukaku, I'd be sick of a lack of support. If I was scouting Lukaku, I'd be alarmed at his lack of ball control and game intelligence. If your defence is hanging on in the last few minutes, you keep the ball at all costs, you buy fouls, you drag yourself to the corner flag.

If you're breaking with the ball with two defenders in front of you, you look up and notice your colleague in space instead of blasting the ball into a defender's legs. He won't be going anywhere anytime soon.

Davies had a cracking game for me. He was clearly asked to stop Carrick, which he did well. I marvelled at a young player sticking unselfishly to his task as he did. That's why he stayed on and Barkley was subbed. Tom has far more discipline. He'll get a deserved rest the minute Morgan is fit.

Being frank, they deserved a draw. We weren't robbed, the pressure told. I'm not blaming the back four that played well, I'm blaming the front players who didn't hold the ball up, the manager who took off the dangerous Mirallas, unless he was injured.

The young players, who many on here have screamed for, will have learnt much in the last two games. Judging by some performances tonight, they had learnt from Saturday. Doesn't help us finish higher in the league, but may stand us in good stead for the future if we need a bigger squad.

I'm not convinced Koeman trusts the attacking players, bar Lukaku. This means we're likely to be set up not to lose for this season. It means he's setting himself up for a summer where bringing in genuine creative attacking talent will be key.

Our success will depend on this and it's what I'm going to judge him on.

Chris Watts
165 Posted 04/04/2017 at 00:11:53
It's clear there are going to be big changes in the summer. IMO Barkley doesn't move the ball quick enough for a 10. He often takes one too many touches and has to be moved back into centre mid. If we had a decent 10 then maybe this could be the making of him. Will Deulofeu come back?

It's clear Koeman likes quick physical players: Gana, Schneiderlin and Davies are going be be a great midfield for the next 3 years.

On tonight, Holgate did really well. Lukaku looked greedy. And Calvert-Lewin – sorry to be negative about a young player but he doesn't have pace, touch, composure, strength, can't pick a pass, make runs, press, hold the ball up or get in striking positions. I'm honestly struggling to see what Koeman sees in him as he lost the ball every time he had it.

What's strange is how some players get more leeway than others. Lookman looks really exceptional but lost the ball a few times and we haven't seen him since. Calvert-Lewin seems to get lots of chances.

Bad luck tonight. To be honest, we're going to finish 7th, and looking forward to a major transfer window now.

Peter Roberts
166 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:15:20
Kevin,

I am absolutely flabbergasted at the support he gets. He is a flat track bully who has never shown any loyalty to our club.

My first season as a fan was to watch Gray and Sharp lead our attack in the team that won the league and ECWC cup He is not a patch on those lads. A more talented finisher maybe but those two would have had him on toast in every other regard – especially when it came to the battle.

Yes... we have been deprived of higher level strikers for a long time – operating at a budget level getting end of career strikers, journeymen, etc but we paid top dollar for this lad when no one else was prepared to take a gamble.

Shushing a senior player like Williams tonight for daring to question his work ethic is the final straw – oh and calling him a supposed vile phrase to Pogba is beyond disgusting.

The team have had enough of him – that's pretty clear.

Pete Edwards
167 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:18:42
I love all the managerial experts on here... should have done this... should of done that!! Hindsight... a wonderful thing!
Graham Hammond
168 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:19:25
Much improved performance (ie, team selection) tonight but thoroughly pissed off with Koeman. He blew it at the weekend and he blew it again tonight.

To hell with all this positivity, it's all pointless and misplaced when our manager either plays the wrong starting eleven (RS), makes idiotic substitutions (MU) or just pisses money up the wall on sub standard players (AW).

I am livid tonight, yet again.

Pete Edwards
169 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:19:25
Oh, and the comments comparing Koeman to Martinez... just wow!!
James Stewart
170 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:20:12
@89,

I'm inclined to agree with David. I have been really disappointed with Koeman recently. Poor tactics verses Spurs and the exact same again against the RS.

The horrible inferiority complex was out in force tonight. We should have been comfortably winning that game from the position we were in. Lets not kid ourselves about a point at Old Trafford being worth it's weight in gold either, this is the worst United side in my lifetime. Not good enough for £6m per year.

It was as if Moyes was in charge the way we simply retreated into our own box once it became clear we might actually win the game. Pathetic game management in taking off Mirallas, our best player, and switching to a back 5 when we were comfortable.

The Calvert-Lewin sub, I have no words. First of all I don't blame the lad in any way shape or form. It's not his fault he has been thrown on but he simply isn't up to it. He might be one day but at present he is a liability. Why not Lookman? He didn't seem to have a problem causing Man City havoc. Or Valencia for experience.

And Lukaku needs to be kept at all costs.

Steve Barr
171 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:23:47
John at #160, I agree 100% with your summary. Spot-on, buddy.

Even though Man Utd were able to bring on multi/multi million pound subs they only got back into the game because Ron Koeman effed up with his (by comparison) economically priced subs.

Which raises a point I would appreciate comments on from you fellow insightful ToffeeWebbers. That is, in my view, there are only so many world class players out there at any given time. Most of them are at Barcelona, Real Madrid etc.

Just because a club pays mega bucks for a player does that mean they are world class? Are they automatically better than for example, Everton's relative "bargain basement" purchases.

I don't doubt that in some cases a £50-60 million dollar player is better than say a £20 million dollar player, but not proportionately so.

I personally expect that a top class coach being paid £6 million a year should have the ability to significantly close/bridge that gap.

Not seen it from our recent highly paid coaches. Hopefully Koeman will be the one.


Patrick Murphy
172 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:29:12
Pete (#167)

Hasn't the game always been discussed in such a way from the very early days in pubs and clubs and dining rooms to the present hi-tech environment? There are as many opinions as there are supporters on some days and we will always have our own thoughts about the players, formations, managers etc etc.

If fans are only to comment on the game without reference to the manager or without looking at how things may have turned out with different scenarios, isn't that taking something away from the discussion?

I think we all realise that the scoreline will remain the same no matter how much we all write about it, but part of the fun is to give our twopenneth worth. It's really not that important as it has little or no affect on the team, the manager or any other employee at Goodison Park, but surely you don't really begrudge us having our say do you?


Pete Edwards
173 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:33:13
Patrick, no not at all, I just find the level of expertise amazing when it comes to what should have been done, its all very easy after the event
Kevin Rowlands
174 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:40:40
Agree Peter, it was only recently where Osman basically outed him as a selfish twat when doing media work,saying that all he cares about is scoring and personal glory. He has never held our club in high respect; for him, we're a stepping stone to bigger things.

He is not a team player, look at the difference in his celebration when he scores versus when another teammate scores, like night and day. Personally, like you, I can't wait for the day he's shipped out.

David Barks
175 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:45:50
Kevin,

Are you fucking mental? He was the first one jumping on Jagielka's back in celebration at tonight's goal!! Unreal. You're just making it up as you go.

David Barks
176 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:47:12
For your viewing pleasure, Kevin:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vfGiEtQwIs

Wow, he looked miserable that he didn't score the goal and Jagielka did.

Kevin Rowlands
177 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:58:10
Now you're showing clips of his celebrations to defend him, David? For the most part, he rarely gives a shit when someone else scores.

Seriously, can't you just one time admit he played shite and deserves to be criticized, I mean what's wrong with doing that?

David Barks
178 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:58:46
And as for Osman's opinion of Lukaku, here it is:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/10817422/romelu-lukaku-should-stay-at-everton-says-leon-osman

"He will one day play for one of the top clubs in Europe. Whether he needs to do that at the moment as an Evertonian I am not so sure," Osman told Sky Sports News HQ.

"To progress the way Everton are doing, to keep enticing top quality players to come and join the club then the club has got to show its ambition and that usually involves holding on to your best players," said Osman.

"All players want to play in the Champions League but I feel as if he was patient enough and gave Everton a bit more time, the signs are showing that Everton are gradually making those steps."

Yeah, that's clearly Osman saying how selfish Lukaku is and that all he cares about is himself. He's really tearing into him there isn't he, Kevin?

Alexander Murphy
179 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:59:19
Nope sorry, almost feel that I'm on the wrong forum reading some of the drivel in comments here.

Yes, I'm bloody frustrated. But for heaven's sake, we were bloody close to taking all three points.

Williams handball? Genius decision. Now we're yet another defender short. Tool.

Mick Davies
180 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:02:23
Pete Edwards: we're not paid an obscene amount of money to make decisions, but over most of this season on the TW forum, fans have been proved right at their criticism of Koeman's selections, substitutions and non substitutions.

We were crying out for him to buy at least a centre-backand attacking midfielder in January. We said the selection of kids with hardly or no game time this year at Anfield was suicidal. We were happy to see Mirallas back, but dumbfounded when he was taken off.

So yes, this man is making unfathomable decisions, just like his predecessor.

David Barks
181 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:04:50
The entire live forum erupted in dismay as soon as Mirallas was taken off, and even more disturbed by who was brought on. That is not a case of looking back with the advantage of knowing how it turned out.

Every single person almost was in shock. And we were right. We handed the game and all attacking to Man Utd with almost 30 minutes to play.

Kevin Rowlands
182 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:05:13
David, my last interaction with you on this, why can you never accept that he's had a poor game and deserves to be criticized, just like Barkley or any other player?

I have never once seen you say he was part of the problem in a poor performance or loss, why?

Alexander Murphy
183 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:08:21
Eugene (#139).

Let me know when. We could do that in tandem, like the Morecambe & Wise breakfast sketch.

Better that than have bloody "Eyore" back.

David Barks
184 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:11:12
Because people like you come on here and focus solely on him, and ignore the circumstances around the entire match.

The far bigger issue was what Koeman did, how he chose to approach the game when in the lead. That is why.

You imply he's a cancer, with no evidence. You say he doesn't celebrate his teammate's goals, when he most clearly does.

Honestly, because you lie. It's like Fox News and Hilary Clinton with you. No matter what happens your focus goes immediately to him and you make things up to try to match your opinions.

Derek Cowell
185 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:13:27
Grrr ... BBC1 News At Ten commented that Man Utd scored a late penalty to draw with Everton and showed the penalty being scored, no showing of our goal though!!!!

I hate football in general now that it's all about money and the top 6. I'm not even sure I want us to be a part of all that shite anymore...

7th will do for me this season anyway as we are just not good enough for the top 6 in football terms or in terms of having a winning mentality.

Dave Lynch
186 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:14:55
Some of the fucking shite aimed at Koeman on here is plain idiotic. How many of you would have taken a draw before tonight's game? He is trying to build a squad capable of competing at the top level.

He has hasn't even had one proper transfer window yet and ok 1or 2 of his signings are stop gap but FFS! We all knew this season was transitional and next season will be the one to judge him by.

The kids are getting valuable playing time and for those who think we've blown top 4, your deluded. We where never going to make top 4 and have Europa League virtually guaranteed.

We have been beaten only a handful of times since the new year and by teams who have massively outspent us. Get a fucking grip!

Ciaran O'Brien
187 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:17:58
I knew what would happen right after we scored. We do it all the fucking time against these sides and pay them too much respect. I don't know why we sit back because we are shite at it. Constantly gifting them possession is not good enough, we are not bottom of the league or a lower league minnow, we are a top 7 Premier League team.

I still don't rate Joel but he had a good game, Davies needs a rest, Barkley has no intelligence on the field and Lukaku again was owned by bog standard defenders in a big game.

Mirallas has been treated terribly by Koeman and Martinez, he's our only real flair player who can dribble and beat his man and is constantly subbed and in and out of the team.

Calvert-Lewin is way too lightweight and has no pace. Valencia or Lookman are far better choices than him at the present time.

It almost feels like Ronnie doesn't want to succeed this season because of his 3-year plan.

John Pierce
188 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:26:59
Why can't Lukaku and too a lesser extent Barkley need to step up in a game like this? By common consent they are our best players.

If they are that good, they find a way regardless of the circumstances. Lukaku and Barkley had ample chances in tonight's game to end it as a contest, despite. Isn't that the point, they didn't. Because they're not as good as advertised.

I don't measure them or Koeman against WBA or Hull as we should by most measures be at least 7th and beat those types of teams. The measurement comes in these games. Facts are Koeman got it wrong Saturday and tonight, badly too.

Measuring Barkley tonight, a number of times had 2 on 2 with Rom, he did nothing other than surrender the ball. Rom did exactly the same.

I would argue both Bailley and Rojo are lesser players yet won those battles at a canter.

Sure, Rom celebrated with Jags – the most energy he put into anything all night.

David Barks
189 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:39:03
Mourinho himself said it was Koeman changing us to go defensive that changed the game. That's not some random internet fan, that's the opposing manager. Koeman making that substitution and tactical switch cost us massively.

Mourinho said: "Everton start defending with everybody back so they give us the ball. We open with Luke (Shaw) on one side and Ander (Herrera) on the other and putting the balls in the box."

Kevin Rowlands
190 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:41:21
See David, all Lukaku critics like me blame him for everything... do you ever read any of our posts including ones on this thread? And I'm the one that makes things up and lies? Yeh ok.
David Barks
191 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:46:09
Go to sleep, Kevin.
Barry Jones
193 Posted 05/04/2017 at 02:13:59
David Barks, your bizarre love affair with Lukaku is becoming somewhat embarrassing. There are people on here that I have a lot of time for and pay attention to their posts (Kevin R, Peter R, Ray R, Darren H, Dave G) to name but a few. Sadly, your name will never appear on this list.

I have a feeling that the people that I have named have played football themselves at a decent level and understand the game very well, as it is evident from their posts.

Further, to accuse us of watching an Everton game and focusing only on Lukaku's deficiencies is insulting and preposterous. When I watch any game, Everton's or not, I take in a lot of detail about the entire match, looking at the shape of the team as well as individual performances. It is fundamental to my enjoyment of the game of football.

Lukaku's glaring deficiencies are as plain as the nose on your face (I am of course assuming that you have a nose on your face). Many of us have freely admitted that he is a wonderful goalscorer, but the rest of his game is way below par. This has also been pointed out by his manager and many ex-footballers in the media, so to quote what Osman thinks does not really impress me.

What is most heinous about Lukaku is his total lack of work ethic and team ethic. He plays for himself, when he decides to play at all. You may have seen the opta ratings which show that he is the laziest bastard in the league. I think some of the goalies cover more ground. I think some of the spectators cover more ground.

He is 23 years old. If he cannot commit to running and working hard for the team at this age, do you honestly think this will improve with time? The things that he has to improve are mainly about his attitude on the field. Sadly, this says everything about what Lukaku is.

When he loses possession, he makes no effort to retrieve it, arrogantly believing that this is someone else's job. His movement off the ball is shocking and he often hides or moves away from the ball, making other players look bad. The lack of service arguement bandied about here is not as valid as you may think.

He is not the saviour that many of the deluded on here believe. He is indeed, the false messiah. I agree with Peter who has pointed out frequently that his mentality is more destructive than constructive. Lets hope that he can bang in as many goals as humanly possible from now until the end of the season so that some mug can pay the inflated price that his quality will never match.

David Barks
194 Posted 05/04/2017 at 02:59:15
I'd have to disagree, Barry. If you come away from that match and the comment that you make is only related to Lukaku not being worth £90 million, then I strongly doubt that person played the game at any sort of level.

That game clearly changed with Koeman's decision to take Mirallas off and replace him with a defender. We all saw that, Mourinho saw that and said so after the match. From that point on, we were in hang on mode, which is not down to Lukaku.

When someone then comes on and says Leon Osman talked about Lukaku being a cancer and only caring about himself, and I can simply Google and pull up Osman's interview from this very week, where Osman says Lukaku will play for one of the top teams in the world and be one of the best, but wants him to stay at Everton a bit longer, you don't see a problem with that? I didn't bring up Osman, I simply replied to a blatant lie. Also, Osman did, in fact, play the game at a very high level. So I do tend to value that opinion.

When someone says Lukaku doesn't really care about his teammates and doesn't much care when they score, and I can simply pull up the YouTube of tonight's very match where Lukaku is literally the first one hugging Jagielka and running away with him in celebration, you don't see a problem with that? Again, all I did was post video evidence to contradict a lie. It's not the first time he made that accusation, and in the past I posted video after video showing Lukaku celebrating enthusiastically with his teammates. Funnily enough, before Kevin had said Lukaku doesn't celebrate his own goals because he's miserable, now he's saying he overly celebrates his goals and not his teammates.

In that match, we had numerous chances on the break but couldn't string the passes together. On other occasions Lukaku sent a ball into the box but we didn't have any numbers forward, only Barkley or Mirallas. At other times Barkley or Mirallas sent a ball into the box but only Lukaku was in the box.

At the weekend, I commented during the Man City v Arsenal match about how when City attack they get five men into the box, meaning the defense can't focus on a single player. This is in stark contrast to our play, where we only have one player in the box, which requires either a pin point perfect delivery or error by one of the 3-4 defenders marking that player.

We had one break during the second half today where Davies had the ball and Lukaku and Barkley were up ahead. Davies was slowly bringing the ball forward and had no clue what to do. Eventually Gana made it forward and the ball was played to him. By this point, all the Man Utd players had gotten back and there was no opportunity to play a ball, possession was simply handed over. It was one of if not the worst break I have ever seen. Barkley and Lukaku never received the ball, despite being in space and calling for the ball, Barkley on he left and Lukaku on the right.

Calvert-Lewin came on and was shocking, he's not ready for this level. Mirallas was having a fantastic game, should never have been taken off. But if he was exhausted and needed to be replaced (which by his reaction he was not) then it should have been an attacking player who was brought on, or at least a midfielder. Instead we brought on a teenage defender who had just gone through a terrible match at the weekend, and from that point on it was United attack after attack.

The defensive solidity and understanding that we had was lost, at one point with Holgate being completely confused as to where he was supposed to be, with the United player getting down the flank completely unmarked.

So that's the game I saw. See how it was much more than simply Lukaku not being worth £90 million? Football is a team game, very dependent on tactics and every player on the pitch.

Gary Jones
195 Posted 05/04/2017 at 03:02:09
I haven't read any of the above posts. I watched the game on BT.

Have to say, I will never be convinced or agree has to how good Lukaku thinks he is, if someone is prepared to pay ridiculous money for him, please let them take him.

During tonight's commentary, Savage had a go at Barkley for not finding Lukaku with a through ball, Barkley moving down the left, Lukaku going further away from Ross to the right, with three defender's between them, with Lukaku not having the foresight or brain to make a diagonal run, Ross looses ball = Ross gets criticised, Ross isn't the best, neither was alleged expert Savage.

The substitutions changed the game, Davies wasn't his usual self, so to take Kev and Ross before him was a strange decision.

Did anyone else noticed the amount of times Everton played passes to each other that didn't quite have the right pace on them?

Jim Harrison
196 Posted 05/04/2017 at 03:03:35
Davi Lynch 186

Exactly.

Not celebrating a draw, but realistically what do people expect? Go away to Man Utd and expect a result? On what basis? What player lining up for Everton yesterday would Jose want? Maybe Barkley. Possibly Rom, but there is history there. The rest of the team available are decent players but even our stand out new addition (missing through injury) couldn't make the Man Utd team.

It's very easy to sit in the pub and say "missed opportunity" reality is that this was a decent result given the squad available

Regards Mirallas, if he was as good as people think he is, he would be playing. He would score. He will always be one of those players who shines bright once in a while, but never consistently deliver. He has been in and out of the team under the past 3 managers. Coincidence?

Peter Barry
197 Posted 05/04/2017 at 04:33:13
We were very unfortunate to lose the game in 'Fergie time' but then that's what 'Fergie time' is all about, isn't it – putting strain on the opposition until they crack or until the Ref can find an excuse to give it to them.
Martyn Thickitt
198 Posted 05/04/2017 at 04:40:38
Hear, hear, Barry.
Mike Dolan
199 Posted 05/04/2017 at 05:16:10
I must have been watching the wrong game. I thought the blue team put in a totally heroic performance where every player left everything out there on the field.

I thought The red team which apparently had been assembled at such a huge expense that their bench was more expensive than the blue teams entire squad looked so rattled at times that this observer thought there is not an actual lot of difference in these two sides they red side at times looked almost as good as the blue side at times.

Well you get the gist; this was a great performance by Everton. I congratulate every single player. I congratulate our great manager for getting 100% out of our players by using a tactical plan that evened an unequal playing field. Great job blues, I thought you were superb.

Darryl Ritchie
200 Posted 05/04/2017 at 06:14:07
I finally had a chance to watch the game. If we had fielded the same 11 on Saturday, the outcome would probably have been a little more positive.

The men in blue worked their tails off the entire match. I had predicted this to be a draw, so not too disappointed with final score. A little peeved at the way the draw happened, but that's football.

As I said, I was extremely proud of the effort put in by all our players, well, almost all of them, anyway. Lukaku must've been pooped by the final whistle. He must've walked for miles; and all that waving and pointing can wear a person out. A bit harsh? Perhaps, but he does tend to go missing for the big games.

I think Koeman took Mirallas off because he was working himself up to a red card. There has been a lot of criticism of the manager for replacing him with Pennington, but Man Utd, with their quality, were always going to amp up the pressure in the second.

Hell, it almost worked. If it had he would have been a genius, instead of the brain dead twit a lot seem to believe he's turned into. He's neither. We have nearly half of starting 11 injured. Our squad is really thin. Trying to fill the holes with bench players and kids, against a side as deep as United's, was an almost impossible task.

Darren Hind
201 Posted 05/04/2017 at 06:47:08
Dave Lynch,

Have you ever noticed that we have outspent the teams we have beaten?

Koeman's signings have not been short term they have been shite. This "what do people expect" lark is what keeps us where we are.

We had the game boxed off until honest Ronnie started with his half-witted substitutions. His players were taking the game to them and it was him who lost his nerve.

I'll tell you what I expect. I expect us to manage a game against a team who were reduced to launching long balls into our box. I expect our manager to trust his players and stop acting like the biggest Frankie since Davey Moyes.

David Barks,

You are another one who is falling over yourself to accept the unacceptable.

For the second time in a few days, Lukaku stunk the place out. Under three thousand Evertonians were able to get a ticket, but they were magnificent, out singing 70,000 Mancs. They deserved better than the half arsed performance your hero gave them. At a time when everyone else was digging in, Lukaku was a can't-be-arsed disgrace, no amount of apologising from you can alter that

Ste Traverse
202 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:31:21
Joe Clitherow (#153).

Alan Parry wasn't the commentator, It was Ian Darke.

John G Davies
203 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:34:10
Darren,

I agree re the attitude of Lukaku, even the mild mannered Baines had a go at him when he never chased a defender who had taken the ball off him. Also he gets his head upon two or three occasions when we counter it's 2-0 game shot.

"We were playing against a team who were reduced to knocking long balls into our box."

Do you not think that may be the reason he brought another centre-half on?

Mike Green
204 Posted 05/04/2017 at 07:39:57
We need another striker to compliment Rom. Rom to be the flat track bully knocking goals in for fun against the bottom half when the cameras are off.

New boy to step up to the plate in the big games against the big boys but can go missing if he wants when its not showtime. That way they can cover each others inadequacies.

Either that or buy someone that can do it all of the time regardless of who were playing. That might be an idea.

Chris Bond
206 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:08:10
We really need to complement him. I think he's probably been complimented too much already. ;-)

(Sorry, Mike – couldn't resist it.)

Allan Board
207 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:23:17
Oh well, a win snatched away at the death.

The only reason I can see any sense in withdrawing Mirallas was because he might have been sent off after the virtual assault on him by 3 or 4 Manc players a little earlier.

The ref bottled it and Young should have been sent off – what a complete weapon he is by the way – but the ref bottled an awful lot didn't he?

Some say Mourinho is a genius – I don't think so – his team are bang ordinary and are screaming out for creativity in midfield.

Pogba? Do me a favour, Fergie had him nailed right the 1st time – too slow, not clever enough, shit awareness and a bloody big head.

As for Everton, I thought we were okay, but our counter-attacking leaves an awful lot to be desired. If you wish to play on the counter then, the mobility has to come from your front man – Lukaku is not yet good enough at it – I hope he learns because he will not be of much use in the future if Everton get to a higher level, where the counter is often used.

Good teams sit, stay calm and then hammer you on the break – it's always been the same. I have a little sympathy as the balls into him last night were mostly rubbish. However, he has to learn, same for Barkley, to get the head up and play quicker.

A point will do though.

Peter Thistle
208 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:31:42
Had enough of Rom now. His attitude is terrible and he is not a team player. Any player who thinks he's better than he is can sod off. Sell him, find someone who actually loves the club and isn't just trying to make himself look good so he can get a move.

Golden ball and a move is all he is thinking about. I'd rather play Hibbo up front, at least he loved the club.

Laurie Hartley
209 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:32:15
I feel Mirallas is one of the most underrated players in the squad. I don't blame him for being cheesed off for getting pulled.

I see Koeman has told the Echo he is going to have a word with him because of his reaction.

"Because that is not a team."

Careful Ronald – unless you have a word with Romalu also fans and players might think you are playing favourites.

While I am at it, our current striker went alone for glory when a simple pass to Mirallas, who was in yards of space, would have put the latter in for an almost certain goal.

What's going on there then?

Trevor Peers
210 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:42:43
I thought all the team played well last night and put a shift in except Lukaku, he was a disgrace, he should leave as soon as possible because his mindset is appalling, it's badly affecting team morale.

Since his refusal to sign a new contract, he looks totally disinterested, and when you need him most in these big games he just goes missing and sulks because no Champions League club actually wants him. Even if he signed a new contract he'll still keep moaning about wanting a move.

Enough is enough – sell him in the summer and stop the endless damaging speculation. I'd take 㿞 million, that's all he's worth.

Christine Foster
211 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:45:05
Sky noticed and reviewed the verbals between Williams and Lukaku for what it was, anger by the defender because they could see he wasn't helping and not doing his job. Lukaku should be sold. Period.

Last night and at Anfield he did not put a shift in.. let me elaborate... when a team is under the cosh, the only outlet being a long ball to space or too the lone centre-forward, the only thing you can expect that forward to do is buy you time. Hold and chase.

Last night Lukaku did neither. Not only did he do neither, he frankly committed the cardinal sin of showing he could not be arsed either.. It was clear in the animated post game discussion with Pobga that he was remonstrating about Williams because the defender had had a go at him (rightly) for the lack of effort earlier on. The disrespect he showed to his captain by telling him to "shush" almost triggered Williams to go after him but was held back by Barry.

Martin Keown on the Sky panel said there would be words in the dressing room and it showed that all was not well with the team and Lukaku. I agree.

He is a luxury we cannot afford. Let's be clear: he is a great finisher, strong, single-minded and will deliver goals, the ultimate requirement of a centre-forward. Yet he is work shy, does not do the hard yards when he loses the ball or needs to close down defenders, does not make the diagonal runs to draw defenders away, etc etc.

He went absent without leave last night and, as much as it pains me to say it, he is not going to be around much longer and that's a shame because, if he had the work ethic and showed it in the big games, then he would be outstanding. Sadly until he has that he will be a victim of his own hype.

Eddie Dunn
212 Posted 05/04/2017 at 08:52:50
Mirallas may well have been on the verge of getting sent off. I can only presume that is why Koeman subbed him. Barkley was doing well and bust a gut on several occasions to get in good position only for Lukaku to go for goal instead.

The mistake was to bring on Calvert-Lewin. Koeman probably thought the lad's pace and height might help, but he didn't seem to know where to play.

Lukaku made him look a prick pointing for the pass while running a line too close to him, and then showing contempt for his poor ball. If only Valencia had been introduced instead.

Fantastic defending from Jagielka, Williams and my MotM, Gareth Barry. These three were immense.

Holgate looks a wonderful prospect – so cool.

Incidentally, while watching it live on BT I didn't think Robles had an inkling where the shot was coming from and Williams stopped a certain goal. Now if that pen was missed, we would have won, and Ashley would have been feted as the hero who fell on his sword. He had been outstanding all night.

Paul A Smith
213 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:01:19
I didn't see most of the game last night and I'm obviously gutted we didn't hold on. A lot of these comments seem to highlight Koeman's decision-making as much as any player.

One huge disappointment for me last night was the ignorance from Lukaku toward Williams with the "shush" gesture. That is pure arrogance and I have been Lukaku's biggest fan.

It's not the end of the world either and not worth it swaying my judgement but a real man of honour would make that up to people.

Dave Ganley
214 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:04:25
I can't disagree with anything you said, Darren Hind. When people say what do you expect, I expect us to win every game we play. Unreasonable? Absolutely – but that doesn't stop me wishing it or expecting it.

Problem we have is low expectations. We go to the Mancs and the RS and hope any kind of result/draw is a good result and be thankful we didn't get beat. Well that kind of thinking, acceptance if you like, is exactly why we never win at those places. There is no comeback to the players and staff, no horrible reaction from the fans for yet another substandard performance, just a "well what did you expect?"

Attitudes like "We knew the Mancs would come at us in the 2nd half so better to put a defender on" – they didn't actually lay siege to us until we put an extra defender on. With Mirallas on we had a player who looked threatening and capable of causing problems. Without him we looked toothless and just got deeper and deeper.

I'm sick and tired of "plucky litte Everton". I'm sick and tired of people accepting mediocrity and saying it's okay. We will never win with that attitude. Last night, most put in a performance and a win was on the cards. You could argue that we almost got one but we didn't. That goal was coming really. No belief, no going for that killer 2nd goal. Just defend and hope for the best.

To be fair, the defending was 100 times better than Saturday. I don't particularly blame Williams as he was just throwing his body in the way, yes with hands but it was instinctive, can't plan that. If we showed some bottle and not just produce a rearguard action for the last 20 minutes then that may never have happened. Sick and tired of it.

Joe Clitherow
215 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:09:06
Ste, yes, you're right, it was late and I always get those two mixed up when it comes to anti-Everton bias. Darke should stick to boxing commentary, he's quite good at that.
Brian Williams
216 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:15:54
I'm glad there's a realization and acceptance now, from some anyway, that despite the man's goals there's still a lot for Lukaku to learn.

Just about every pundit that was asked said the same thing a lot of us have said on here and been berated for it, which is basically that his goal scoring is good but he needs to improve on just about every other area of his game.

Some might take the stance that they'll settle for just the goals, thank you very much, but I think last night showed, IMO, that's not the right way to go.

Again, IMO, last night showed that his single mindedness has gone a bit too far and it's at the expense of the team. On at least two occasions, one with Mirallas and one with Barkley, he had quite an easy chance to put them both through on goal with just De Gea to beat. He didn't even attempt to pass to either.

That's fine if you're on fire in that particular game and have already scored maybe, but when you're refusing to close down defenders, giving up when you lose the ball, and only switching on when it suits then it's not.

What was totally unacceptable though, if it is what it seemed to be, was Lukaku actually communicating his annoyance with his captain's displeasure with a member of the opposition.

If I was Williams, I'd be straight into that dressing room after the game and in front of the rest of the team I'd be telling him "You ever shush me again on the field of play when I'm captain and I'll shove my size ten up your arse, you cheeky fucker."

Doesn't matter how good each player might be, or what mistakes either might have made, or how much either is worth, you do not do what Lukaku did and then go and have a moan about it to one of the opposition, for fuck's sake.

I hope Koeman has words with him if he intends to have words with Mirallas because in my book Lukaku's "offence" was far worse than Mirallas's.

I agree with Christine that he IS a victim of his own hype, and I fear nothing will change because he probably looks upon Williams, and the rest of the team for that matter, in the same way he looks at Harry Kane of whom he said, "I don't watch/look at other strikers who can teach me nothing."

Stan Schofield
217 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:17:27
Laurie @209:

I agree, Koeman needs to be careful who he has a word with. Certainly not Mirallas.

Koeman needs to have a word with himself, and for a change accept and admit responsibility for his tactical blunder. A tactical blunder that was so predictable from him, and he needs to learn fast, to prevent him doing this again. But of course none of that will happen, the guy seems stubborn and blind to his own mistakes.

Joe Clitherow
218 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:20:06
In managing a "game against a team who were reduced to launching long balls into the box" – surely the game has been managed quite well up to that point when they actually are "reduced" to launching those long balls?

The fact they are reduced to a game which suited our makeshift defence rather than playing the game of their choice means we have managed them into that, doesn't it? In fact, managed pretty well to be winning with 13 seconds to go having held a lead for over 70 mins.

We are all gutted at the manner of the equaliser but had Lukaku taken, or better yet, set up a teammate for a counterattack second goal it was put to bed and Koeman is a genius. I don't get the subs either (Lookman for Mirallas was the obvious one to me) but it almost worked.

The last clown would have had us collapse second half to a heavy defeat, I'm convinced of that.

Fine margins.

Joe Clitherow
219 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:22:53
Jagielka was captain, Brian.
John Daley
220 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:26:08
Despite Koeman's declaration to the contrary, nobody is demanding, expecting, or even living in hope that Lukaku puts in a flawless 10/10 performance every week. What they would quite like is for him to whack the dial up past 4 or 5 when facing a defence who refuse to just lie down for him (failing that, it might be an idea to adjust accordingly the 'delusions of grandeur' dial he's got stashed in his gob).

The blame for picking up a solitary point from back-to-back visits to Anfield and Old Trafford should in no way be dumped on his doorstep alone, but if you're continually being billed as a contender for 'best forward in the league', singled out as 'star player' for your club and far from shy at promoting your own abilities, then these are the sort of games in which you surely need to produce something in order to prove it. Instead, we got a continuation of the Pinnochio theme Koeman bizarrely piped up with ("he's a human boy") as Rom, yet again, found himself too easily contained when up against the 'big fish' and reduced to floating about with all the threat of a fucking 'blue fairy'.

The way he appeared to stop working in the second-half last night, when things weren't going his way, was totally unacceptable under any circumstances, never mind when it should be all hands to the pump to protect a slim lead.

Calvert-Lewin has found himself coming under criticism for failing to make any sort of positive impact on proceedings, but if an 㿼m rated player deemed "good enough for Barcelona" regularly fails to do the business (sometimes even going so far as neglecting to do the basics) in such fixtures, then should better really be expected from an inexperienced kid chucked in relatively cold for a baptism of fire?

Stu Hudson
221 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:32:19
I watched last night getting more and more frustrated by Lukaku and his complete lack of running off the ball, it's like being down to 10 men when we lose possession. Williams was bang on in having a dig at him and asking him to actually run now and again during a game. I hope the other players in the team also let him know their feelings in the dressing room after the game.

I actually agreed with what Rom said in his interview in regards to not signing a contract as we haven't yet recruited on the level that we were led to believe we would, but his poor work ethic in recent games in grinding on a few people now including his own team mates.

Dave Williams
222 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:35:08
Who would be a football manager? Had the penalty not been given, Ron would be getting praised to the heavens this morning for brilliant game management.

Yes, had we not retreated we could have scored again but the way the game was going it is more likely they would have found more space and scored a couple themselves. His tactics were a minute short of working and to have a go at him is ridiculous.

Likewise the criticism of Calvert-Lewin. John Daley has it right- the lad didn' t do much but he is just 20 and was hardly aided by his highly rated partner who should have been telling him how to play his role rather than whinging at Ashley. Calvert-Lewin is getting very unfair stick – I recall Graham Sharp making his debut at around that age and the Echo describing him as "totally out of his depth".

Ron sees him every day and knows far better than us what he can do. We must encourage our youngsters not slag them off when they don't play well. Criticise the petulant and lazy players by all means but give the kids a chance to learn rather than destroy them before their career has started.

Craig Walker
223 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:37:23
I will probably get a load of abuse for this but I don't think it would be disastrous if Lukaku leaves for big money. If we can get two forwards in who'll net 15 goals apiece, then we might actually be a better team because at the minute, if he isn't up for it then we're effectively playing with 10 men.

Obviously he has contributed most of our goals in the time he's been at Everton but he's also cost us games when he's not in the mood. I wouldn't have a problem with that if he didn't act like a big fish in a small pond.

It still rankles with me the number of chances he missed in the semi-final last season and the fact that he took the penalty after missing one at home to West Ham.

No one player is bigger than the club but Rom acts like he's our greatest ever forward. He could look to Dennis Stracqualursi for some advice on how to wear the Everton shirt with a bit of pride.

Keith Monaghan
224 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:40:53
David Barks at 125 – absolutely spot on.

Whatever ground Barkley covers, it's always at a snail's pace – also, he's hopeless at closing opposition down and shows no interest in it, apart from the occasional crazy lunging tackle. Every game we play with him in, it's like starting with 10 men – only shows enthusiasm when we get a corner or free kick – then sulks if he doesn't take it.

Stan Schofield
225 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:42:46
Dave, if the penalty hadn't gone in and we'd won, Koeman would still be criticised for the tactical blunder of taking Mirallass off.

Spot on regarding the kids, they did their best.

Max Murphy
226 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:57:48
Most of the team played much better compared to the debacle of Saturday. £60 Million for Lukaku? I wouldn't give you 60 quid. Atrocious, greedy and selfish. If him or Barkley had lifted their heads up to make the simple pass, we would have won by a couple of goals.

What is so annoying is that we had so many promising breaks on the counter-attack. Taking Mirallas off was ridiculous. He has pace and is a genuine threat on goal and Koeman sees something we don't?

The defence were great and I can't blame Williams for the penalty.

Get the money for Lukaku and get rid of Koeman. Unsworth and Ferguson will get us to the top.

Neil Cartwright
227 Posted 05/04/2017 at 09:58:05
Most of the comments on here about Lukaku are spot on. He is miles away from being one of the best strikers in Europe.

The best turn games on their own and they understand that its a team game. Anyone ever seen Agureo complaining that the pass isn't exactly where he wants it then giving up for the last 20 minutes because he doesn't fancy it. No.

You never see Ibrahimovic totally failing to hold the ball up (or even get it under some sort of control). He buys his team mates time.

I remember an interview with Johan Cruyff, he said that the job of a striker is to get the ball under control, instantly, and however it comes at him. Everything else is showboating.

Brian Williams
228 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:13:23
Joe (#219).

Was he? Ah bollocks – there's that argument blown out the water... *LOL*

Brian Williams
229 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:17:21
Craig (#223).

You won't get abuse from me, mate. I've mentioned the same possibility myself. Working with a lone striker only works when the service is top notch and when that striker's playing at the top of his game. Take either factor out of it and you're going to struggle.

I'd personally rather play with two speedy, mobile, tricky players up front which gives much more scope to how we could play. Only my opinion of course, and like arseholes, we all have one. ;-)

Laura Round
230 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:25:29
Craig and Brian,

I've had thoughts on this too. Rom is very selfish but often lets us down. You can see players too scared to have a shot because he sulks if they miss.

He took the ball from Dom last night who was clear on goal and promptly lost it. He could've passed last night as well, to Kevin I think it was but decided to take on 2 defenders instead.

His attitude must affect others and it's really starting to piss me off... we have goals in our team; he is replaceable.

James Lauwervine
231 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:26:04
Lukaku 㿼m? What a fucking joke.

Time after time, head down shooting against defenders legs – absolute shite. No awareness, no skill. We should have been 3-0 up easily by 80 mins.

The one that got me was where Barkley is running into acres of space as the two defenders get dragged over to Lukaku and Barkley didn't even sprint or shout for the ball – because he KNEW Lukaku would shoot, just as the defenders did.

Yes, he's a great goalscorer on his day, but yesterday and Saturday he was total shite. I've had enough of his half-arsed jogging about, his moaning and arms in the air. He absolutely did my head in last night.

Calvert-Lewin was just as bad when he came on. There was one breakaway near the end where they were 2 v 2 and both showed no effort or desire whatsoever and the ball was surrendered so easily it left me speechless. Lukaku should have been subbed not Mirallas but that is NEVER going to happen.

Mirallas being pissed off was totally understandable, a terrible decision. I felt for Davies as he was left to do a lot of the legwork and closing down and it's not his strong point – hence they got about 20 crosses into the box.

Anyway, I shall now put in place a self-imposed football lobotomy for three days and live a life of ignorant bliss from all of this.

Martin Nicholls
233 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:34:09
We were 20 seconds away from a good win after a committed performance. Had the whistle gone 20 seconds earlier, the general tone of this thread would have been very different and Koeman would be praised for his nous in closing out the game like he was earlier in the season on more than one occasion.

Many remarked on his willingness to do that and contrasted it to OFM who "would have gone gung ho and lost the game". Like most, I couldn't understand last night's subs but Koeman is not the fool that many portray him as.

Tony Dove
234 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:42:20
I agree with the general view that the substitutions were dreadful. We played pretty well but neither Mirallas nor Lukaku ever look up for an option when they get near the box. If they did, we would have been home and dry before Williams's schoolboy error.

For an experienced international, it was inexcusable and Robles would have dealt easily with the shot [assuming he didn't repeat his fumbling of the disallowed goal].

Jagielka, Barry and Holgate were tremendous and Holgate deserves a medal for coming back so well from Saturday's nightmare.

It would have been fantastic to have been above Man Utd and Arsenal but, thanks to Koeman and Williams, we are back where I suppose we belong.

Peter Roberts
235 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:49:05
The only way I can possibly describe some fans and their defence of Lukaku is laughable and as embarrassing as the player himself.

Go and take yourselves away – read a book on the history of Everton to refresh your minds as to what we are all about.

A grand old club who set many of the traditions we see in the modern game is being dictated to by a player not fit to wear the badge made famous by predecessors who gave the fans a level of expectation that meant nothing less than 100% would do...

I fear for the future of the club when certain fans praise a player who has to be one of the laziest, egotistical divas I have ever seen.

I can't wait for him to be sold – can't wait. I'd sooner have Valencia up front than this cretin.

Peter Laing
237 Posted 05/04/2017 at 10:56:39
Interesting reading the comments regarding the falling out between Williams and Lukaku. Fantastic at last we see some passion and Lukaku being quite rightly brought to book by one of his teammates.

The current situation with Lukaku reminds me of last season when we witnessed a sharp decline in form which culminated in a dreadful barren run which was capped off by a disastrous performance at Wembley in the semi-final.

Lukaku is evidently high maintenance as most good forwards are. It would be interesting to gauge his popularity with his teammates – being one of the highest paid players at the Club there is possibly some resentment.

However, in addition to high maintenance we are also seeing this continuing trend of narcissistic behaviour. Personally I'm getting pretty sick of it and wouldn't be too upset to see Lukaku depart to the highest bidder at the end of the season.

Jim Bailey
238 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:04:54
Lukaku and Barkley are both liabilities in my opinion. If Lukaku isn't in the mood as is often the case, we are effectively down to ten men. Likewise with Barkley he can be so infuriatingly ineffective that we can appear to be down to nine. I'm sure that for a long time now Lukaku's attitude has had a detrimental effect on the other players which is patently bad for morale.

Also I'm sure that Barkley is looked on with wonderment by some other players as he can go for weeks playing badly and is rarely subbed or dropped. Others have said that we need players with guts and attitude who maybe not blessed with fantastic skills, never shy away from responsibility or hide from the ball, Seamus for example. A player who shows these attributes and leaves nothing on the pitch after a game will always have the respect of true Evertonians.

The same respect that is clearly missing for Barkley and Lukaku. I wouldn't be sorry to see one or both of them go this summer and be replaced by players who would take pride in wearing the shirt.

I think Koeman is going in the right direction. Progress is relative but we have more points on the board than the last two seasons with games to play. He has also given opportunities to the kids which I'm really happy about.

I trust him to get things right in the summer. Fingers, toes and eyes crossed.

Stan Schofield
239 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:12:26
Peter Roberts, your posts are normally quite restrained, but that one was strange.

Others recognise Lukaku's faults, whilst at the same time seeing what he brings to Everton. It boils down to differing perceptions. It's clear you don't want him at Everton, but really, suggesting others who don't have your perception should learn Everton's history is a bit rich.

I didn't learn Everton's history from books, but from supporting them from 1961, during the time of Alex Young and Roy Vernon. Supporters don't need to be told to read books, in fact don't need to be lectured on the grandeur of our club.

It was only a few games ago that Lukaku was 'on fire', but it takes a couple of poor performances to have his detractors out in force. Perhaps if Koeman got his away tactics sorted, we wouldn't get these 'Lukaku is a gobshite' posts.

Frank Crewe
244 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:42:50
We were doing okay until the substitutions. I assume Koeman took Mirallas off because he was wound up and had already been booked so he thought he would get sent off.

What I don't understand is why he sent on Pennington instead of Valencia, pushed Barkley out to the right and go to a straight forward 4-4-2. Then if Koeman felt the need to send on Calvert-Lewin he could have taken off Barkley and pushed Valencia out wide instead without changing the shape.

As it is, sending on Pennington simply clogged up out defence and put us on the back foot for the remainder of the match and handed the initiative to them. They were poor sub choices and I'm sure Koeman regrets making them.

Best to look on the bright side. By the end of the game They had just about their strongest side on the park and we had four of our up and coming youngsters in Holgate, Pennington, Calvert-Lewin and Davies yet we almost won.

This is good experience for all of them and no doubt with our current injury/suspensions they'll be getting more first team games under their belts in the remaining games to come. Maybe one or two other such as Lookman etc. may get a look in as well.

Craig Walker
246 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:58:47
Stan, I think every Evertonian would accept that Lukaku has scored goals for Everton, some of them memorable, not all of them crucial. If he wants to put himself on a pedestal, though, and imply that he is better than our great club then he deserves all the stick he gets when he fails to look bothered.

I accept that players have off-days but it happens too frequently with Lukaku where he just doesn't fancy it. I didn't follow the game last night because I play 5-a-side on Tuesdays. I had 5-Live on the radio though on my way to our game and Leon Osman was in the studio. He made the point that it almost seemed like Lukaku played the derby with an attitude of "there's a lot of aggressive tackles going on here. I'm gonna keep out of that because I don't want to get injured".

He went on to say that there were times where he could have shoulder-charged a RS defender or put pressure on them and just seemed to be idling about, disinterested.

These were comments from a guy who played with Lukaku and knows him better than any of us. If you were his teammate and he was effectively saying that he's too good to be playing with you and your ilk, would you put up with him strolling around with the "big I am" attitude?

David Hallwood
247 Posted 05/04/2017 at 11:59:16
Now I've had time to reflect: yes, the substitutions left a lot to be desired, but if Morgan & Jimmy Mac had been available the subs would've been totally different, so to an extent injuries forced his hand.

As they say, it's the hope that kills you, but so do luck and fine margins. Let's play our favourite parlour game what if. What if we'd won at Mordor, say 2-1, and held out against the Mancs?

That would've put us equal 4th with RS with +23 GD and it would be only the fact that they've scored more, that they would be above us

Looking at it that way shows that we're not too far off.

Tony Abrahams
248 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:12:29
Good post again, Christine, and for my own twopence worth, I think Koeman has got to be stronger in terms of how he deals with Lukaku sometimes.

Is he bigging him up to get top dollar for him? I don't know, but a lone forward playing at either Anfield or Old Trafford, should never last the full 90 minutes.

If he's constantly working for the team, he would be on his knees after 75-80 minutes, and that goes for any striker, not just a 15-stone man, who is full of muscle.

Ian Hollingworth
249 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:14:02
I don't like it but we are where we are.

Big difference between us and the teams above is ambition. Pep has declared that every single player is playing for his future at City.

Come on Ronald lets lay down a similar marker to our lot. The club has to show ambition on the playing field not just a new stadium.

We seem to think that being the best of the rest is an achievement. If it is then, change the club motto.

George Cumiskey
250 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:37:12
Someone on an earlier ​post said it's easy to criticize in hindsight, what a load of rubbish. I said to my mates "There goes the game" as soon as he brought on Pennington for Mirallas.

He should've brought on Lookman and Valencia; Man Utd were there for the taking till Koeman's bottle went. That's foresight, not hindsight, and he does it time after time.

Matthew Williams
252 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:47:43
All I want is a Gaffer who is braver than Koeman... or nowt will ever change!
Peter Roberts
253 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:50:43
Stan (#242),

In your eagerness to tell me that you watched Everton in the 60s you missed the point that I made about reading a book about Everton to "refresh their minds to what we are all about"... our club wasn't formed in the 60s although the 60s represented what we should always strive for.

Everton has never been and never shall be about one player – yet here we are indulging this overgrown manchild in all his narcissistic arrogant tendancies and isn't he just being allowed to get away with it?

The apathy and low standards that has poisoned the club for the past 30 years has culminated in grown men allowing a 23-year-old to take the proverbial out of our club in exchange for a few more goals than what we got from our previous line of budget level journeymen strikers... 15-year-old kids I can understand- they haven't had a Roy of the Rovers idol before now.

Seriously... It's cringeworthy. It's like watching a mate who hasn't had his leg over in 10 years disappear under the thumb of a new overbearing pain-in-the-backside girlfriend.

Barry Jones
254 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:53:37
Stan, I am from your era and fondly remember watching Roy Vernon, Alex Young, "Chico" Scott, Tony Kay (not for very long, sadly) and all of the others from the Championship winning team when my dad first took me to Goodison.

I don't think Peter is trying to patronize anyone, but merely point to our history within the club. We all agree that Rom is a great goalscorer (on his day, and sadly not in the big games) but to point to Koeman and blame him for Lukaku's deficiencies is incorrect.

Mourinho got rid of Lukaku (just as he did with Balotelli at Inter) because he could see what he lacked and was not convinced that a coach/manager of his undoubted quality could rectify that. We are talking about laziness, mentality, ethic, awareness and vision – all difficult to correct, especially when a huge ego is a barrier to this.

Stan Schofield
256 Posted 05/04/2017 at 12:57:08
Craig (#250):

No, I must admit I wouldn't put up with a player strutting around like he's the big cheese. That's a question of discipline, and if Lukaku is doing that, then Koeman needs to apply discipline to a paid professional under contract to do a job.

That said, I recall Koeman actually saying, a few months ago, that Lukaku would need to leave Everton to achieve his ambitions. I don't recall Lukaku ever saying this, despite some folks interpreting the facts to imply this. No, it was Koeman, not Lukaku. So Koeman needs to sort his act out as a manager of men.

Regarding the matter of whether Lukaku does strut his stuff arrogantly, I'm not convinced he is doing this. I don't see a negative effect on team spirit, quite the contrary in fact, judging by what I've seen on the pitch, and despite Williams giving him a bollocking last night. I agree that he should accept a bollocking when given and justified like last night, and if he doesn't, then that's also a matter of discipline.

But my main point to Peter was the criticism of fellow Evertonians for supporting Lukaku, or at least for not criticising him. There's no point in doing that, it's not really part of the debate about team tactics, discipline of players, style of the manager, etc. It's a diversion.

Dave Abrahams
257 Posted 05/04/2017 at 13:14:21
Dave (222) I like your defence of Calvert Lewin, I also remember Grahame Sharp when he first appeared for the Blues, he was hardly cutting up any trees, in fact he was very ordinary and didn't look like he would become the player who was a big part of a great team.

None of us know how the young Calvert Lewin will turn out, at least let's give him a chance, I wouldn't have played him last night, I would have played Valencia, but Koeman picks the team, maybe the young lad will surprise us if given time.

Rob Dolby
258 Posted 05/04/2017 at 13:38:29
A lot better last night, my only gripe being the subs. Mirallas could have stayed on for another 10 mins and Valencia should have been brought on for Calvert-Lewin.

We had 3 or 4 good counter attacking chances and didn't take any of them and whilst I think Calvert-Lewin has a great future Valencia has shown that he can impact games late on with either his pace or through-ball.

Colin Malone
260 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:17:42
Christine@211. Spot on.

Lukaku has always been lazy. So, when you're one-nil up, you have to defend from the front, that's why Williams was having a go at Rom.

Every club Rom has been at, he hasn't been able to keep his place in the team and we can see why. Lookman should've replaced Rom up front. Very bad substitutions.

Jamie Crowley
261 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:23:17
I had to watch delayed last night – work, family in town, dinner, then finally fired up the recording having dodged the result. At 1 am when my personal viewing final whistle blew, I said, "fuck that" and went to bed.

So many salient points for 250 or so comments, but a few things stick out to me.

Regarding Lukaku, the man literally makes me bi-polar. There is no one in the world – and that's not hyperbole from my viewpoint – better than Lukaku when he is facing the goal, running at defenders, and battling for a ball in an attempt to score.

The kid is an absolute freak of nature – a tank – and he is just filthy good when he is physical and running at defenders. But he absolutely at times does literally nothing to help the team when it comes to holding up the ball and chasing down defenders.

He's crap at that, looks lazy, and it simply has to be infuriating when you're a defender busting your balls defending to get zero help from the big fella up top. Lukaku was woeful last night and let his team and teammates down.

I don't know what the answer is to his lack of effort. Do you take the good with the bad? Do you demand more and cut him loose if the lack of effort off the ball isn't there?

I honestly have no idea. Love him to death one second, literally hate him the next for that lazy can't be bothered attitude he displays.

And now I go a bit long on a thread...

What I simply and equally detest, are teammates berating fellow teammates in public. For whatever reason it's "culturally acceptable" for someone like Ashley Williams to sprint 20 yards out and just rip the shit out of Lukaku for his lack of effort. Maybe it's an "American" thing, this dislike I have to that type of thing? But I absolutely hate that.

Lukaku deserved a "bollocking". No question. But that shouldn't be done in front of 70k+ opposing fans and it certainly shouldn't be done by running 20 yards out of position to make your emphatic, childlike point.

Yell out at him, "Lu - we need more get on that ball!" or some such thing. Why in the hell any teammate would show up another teammate by making a complete spectacle by running 20 yards, waving your hands in anger and showing up your teammate is beyond me.

In the locker room, fucking punch the guy. But keep that shit out of the public eye and be a cohesive, together, dare I say encouraging TEAM UNIT for the 90+ minutes you're on the pitch.

Teammates shouldn't be showing up teammates and berating them, no matter how much they deserve it, during the game or in public. There's more effective ways to get your point across during the game that don't show "issues" or a "team divide" to the entire world. And there's better ways to motivate lazy teammates to pick up their game.

Sprinting out screaming and showing the guy up, waving your arms around for the whole world to see while embarrassing the living shit out of someone isn't being a good teammate, no matter how much that teammate might need a proverbial boot up his ass.

All that being said, Ashley Williams was an absolute fucking hero last night with his play. But adolescent tantrums that are completely embarrassing in nature to "motivate" your teammate are...

Embarrassing.

Sam Hoare
262 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:44:59
Disappointing but more due to context than performance or result.

Fact is we have been pretty darn good since turn of the year and would be right up there in the Champions League places. Sadly it took 4 months for the team to get there.

I think Koeman got his subs wrong last night but we are moving forwards and our form for the last few months is pretty strong.

This Summer will be pivotal both in terms of outgoings and incomings but we are not that far behind the likes of Man Utd, Arsenal and the RS (except when we play them!).

Bill Gall
263 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:49:55
The problem with Lukaku, no matter how irritating he can be, is at the moment we have no one to replace him. With his present attitude I see no reason why the club should not strongly negotiate to get enough money for him in the transfer season.

We are a club in a rebuilding process and I believe the club made every effort to keep him this season as they needed a goal scorer to try for the top 6.

At the beginning of the transfer window the club has to make a strong and determined number of negotiations to show their true ambitions, and if it means selling Lukaku and Barkley to raise extra funding, I think they will not hesitate to get the highest fee for them.

As for the comments that Koeman made mistakes last night . Every new manager makes mistakes, even experienced managers make mistakes so lets judge him at the end of the season as if there was no penalty last night, a lot of these comments would not have come up.

Without meaning any disrespect to anyone who mentioned that Robles should have been more involved to stop the penalty being given, next time you are in a park ,stand in a goal and have someone stand in front of you moving. while someone else hits a football towards the corner of the goal. It is easy to criticize something that happens in about 10-15 seconds.

Jason Bowen
264 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:57:27
Peter Roberts 237, my sentiments exactly but I was berated for having a go at him and saying he isn't fit to wear our shirt and anyone that cheers him must be daft!

He is and always will be just about himself, I hope he goes asap!

Kevin Rowlands
265 Posted 05/04/2017 at 14:59:57
Jim, I wouldn't call it adolescent tantrums, more like vent up frustration. It's clear all is not well in the dressing room when you see that, also subtle hints from Osman on the radio.

This is what happens when you have a Billy big time like Lukaku mouthing off about his future, dissing his club and teamates, then going out and putting in half-ass lazy performances in big games. If your going to talk the talk, you better walk the walk otherwise it will backfire like last night.

It's actually quite refreshing to come on here this morning and see most of the posters/fans comments; you can only fool an Evertonian for so long, see Martinez. The quicker he's gone the better.

Frank Crewe
266 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:21:45
Matthew @257

"All I want is a Gaffer who is braver than Koeman... or nowt will ever change!"

We had a gaffer who was braver than Koeman. A manager who was simply incapable of closing down games and kept costing us wins because of it. His name was Roberto Martinez.

It's not a question of bravery it's a question of common sense. We were only one up but we were holding our own. We needed to keep a goal threat up front. Plainly Mirallas was wound up from the free kick incident and one more foul would have had him off.

A better substitution was obviously Valencia. Obvious to everyone except Koeman that is. We could have gone 4-4-2 and have kept a decent goal threat without disrupting the defence that was playing well.

The real problem is Koeman still doesn't have enough faith in his players. He showed it in the Spurs game before it even started by naming three DMs. He did it against the Reds by playing three CBs. He has to stop trying to defend his way to success against the top sides away from home. It hasn't worked at all this season bar the undeserved 1-1 against City.

The top clubs almost always pinch a goal by a deflected shot, set piece, a penalty, or defensive lapse and then we're left in the lurch because we don't have enough attacking players on the pitch to make a change. The defeats against Spurs, Liverpool and now this draw can be entirely laid at the door of Koeman and his poor player choices and tactical substitutions.

This isn't to say he isn't heading in the right direction because I think he is. But he has to stop these lapses in judgement because they are costing us points.

Dave Abrahams
267 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:23:18
Jamie (#266), fair point except Lukaku shows his displeasure all the time to teammates who don't put the ball where he wants it.

Earlier in the season, in a home game, Williams gave Lukaku a bollicking for not getting involved, while he Lukaku, as still berating his teammates for not doing as he wanted. He is a self centred egotist who wants the world to revolve around him.

John Pierce
268 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:23:49
In Joe Royle's first game in charge he was asked by the chairman if we might get a draw?

His response "I expect us to win, chairman". As we all know we beat the RS 2-0.

So last night was not okay because we 'got' a point at Old Trafford. Koeman's tactics and response to a point in his interview was flabbergasting, like he thinks hes 'Hannibal' for drawing with United.

The opportunity to leap up the table is now – not in 3 effing years. You can deliver ahead of schedule if you want to!

It would appear that the self styled 'best striker in world Rom 'my gob is bigger than yours' Lukaku is undroppable. Why did Koeman not have the balls to sub the lad? Because they're stuffed in his wife's purse somewhere.

Does he think pandering to Rom is the way to go? Will this in the end bear fruit and he'll stay? Its now a pantomime and it lacks the key ingredient, humour.

For a serial winner, Koeman is giving me the impression of the exact opposite, a bottling shithouse.

I will go back and forth on him because his body of work to date demands it. I'm fed up of the way we play away from home. It is unacceptable. And the root of the it, Koeman.

To be fairly close to a top 6 finish or better and to have lost points at Middlesboro', Bournemouth, Watford. The list is damning. We have nothing to lose in these games we have the points for European football. Why is there no courage I say again, 'Shithouse that Ronnie.

We will in all probability win the next two home games, and maybe bring ourselves to the brink again, just like a boiling pot, then some fucker will walk past and switch it off.

Its seems to me Koeman is having a 'dirty protest' on Moshiri's lawn. 'Look, chairman, my squad is totally shit and I have to play toddlers at Liverpool and United. Can I have better toys please?'

But hey ho its an emotional ride and I still love the crap out of Everton, but maybe I don't always show it...

Dermot Byrne
269 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:37:22
John (#274),

Your last para is a lesson to us all when we are livid with some aspect of our club. But be careful. If we all are self aware like that this place could become reasonable!

As for the manager. My hope, and in could be very misplaced, is that this guy can manage a team of better class players. He is no Moyes to fight from relegation but I think he can manage a team of confident and skillful lads.

Just checked this post for spelling and now not sure I am sure! Perhaps I would like his brain with a bit more passion.

Tony Heron
270 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:38:06
Fans keep saying "If we sell Lukaku who's going to score the goals?" Well last night, if he had chosen to pass rather than shoot, other players would've scored. So he's not the only one capable of scoring, if given the chance.

Where he's a liability to the team is his work rate and team play. Remember the mid '80s. We won the league and then bought a fantastic goalscorer in Gary Lineker. He went on to score 40 goals (I think), but everything was played through him and as a result not many of his team mates hit the back of the net. We didn't win anything that season and Lineker was sold to Barcelona.

The following season the game plan changed with goals shared around as a result and we won the league again.

No player is bigger than the club or the team and I don't see the sale of Lukaku as a prelude to the club falling off a precipice. Changing the dynamics and the over reliance on one player, wouldn't, in my view, be necessarily a bad thing. History has shown us the way.

Dermot Byrne
272 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:44:35
Tony...Think I agree today. Also, he is a Martinez man!

There are others for 㿨m.

Jamie Crowley
273 Posted 05/04/2017 at 15:56:17
Dave @273

Yes Lukaku does pull those stunts.

The master of throwing his arms outstretched, east to west with that "What the fuck, why didn't you do xyz" look. Often times he does that after HE actually didn't do something right. And that is embarrassing and shouldn't be tolerated either.

Just flatly, none of that shit should ever happen between teammates in public.

When I moved to Florida about 13 years ago, I joined a men's hockey league – ice, not that stick whomping shit you fine folks play over there. My first game with a new team I knew no one. I had played at a relatively high level in my younger days.

A kid, all of 18 years old, played on the team. Good skater, nice kid, but you could tell he hadn't played at a high level. Held the puck too long, his positioning was suspect, et al. One time early in the game he and I broke out on a 2 on 1. I shot the puck, the goalie made a good save, and the kid looked at me and yelled, "Pass the fucking puck!"

I looked at the kid, turned for the subsequent faceoff, didn't say a word, played a shift of about 1 minute or so, and we went for a line change.

On the bench I sat next to the kid, took a quick look around to make sure no-one was paying attention to us, and said to him, "if you ever fucking yell at me on the ice again, I'm going to beat the shit out of you. Get me the puck, I'll score, everyone's happy. Don't ever fucking yell at me again."

I went on to score 36 goals in 10 games. The kid never yelled again. I helped the kid out a lot with improving his game – the positioning, the cerebral part of it all. We got along fantastically from that point forward.

I didn't yell back. I didn't make a scene. I went on to take him under my wing as it were.

I should have put my stick in his kidney. I didn't. It was a busher men's league to be sure – but at any level it's just not "right".

In my little myopic, idealistic world, teammates don't show up other teammates. It's fucking subhuman, counter-productive, negative horseshit.

And it sends me through the roof when I see two Everton players shitting on one another for the whole world to see.

James Hughes
275 Posted 05/04/2017 at 16:24:36
Some good points above from Christine and John P amongst others

I have always tried not to slag off the team or staff but the past two games have been awful all round. Selection and subs have been poor by Koeman to say the least. Team effort and application has been woeful.
I really don't like joining the arse-kicking but:-

Lukaku, you get paid to play football, not wander about a pitch.
Barkley, Where you actually, mentally, in Salford last night, boy?
Koeman, just what the fuck are you managing and what is your plan.

I have had the pleasure of seeing some poor performances in the past, but past two games have set new lows in terms of team effort.

Eddie Dunn
276 Posted 05/04/2017 at 16:42:53
Lukaku is the leading scorer in the Premier League and we have to acknowledge that this season his contribution has not only been his goals, but in general, his hold-up play has improved.

Unfortunately, in some games he reverts back to his old ways, and let's himself down with a poor touch, but more often than not, last night he did not have teammates near enough for a lay-off.

His biggest fault was his refusal to look for the pass, to put another in on goal. He seemed determined to be the goal scorer, in an attempt to get the headlines, the credit, and the attention of Mr Mourinho and Mr Conte. When things didn't go his way he blamed his teammates for giving poor passes etc.

The fact that Williams had a go at him doesn't bother me in the slightest. Whenever I have been playing, it is expected that a teammate (not even a senior one) should have a go at you for not putting in a shift. His ego is the problem here, and I would be surprised if others in the camp are not fed-up with his antics.

As for Barkley, I saw Osman's comments criticising him for still making the same mistakes he was making when he broke through at eighteen. It seems he runs around more, but he rarely finds space to shoot, and still takes too many touches.

I personally have lost patience with him, and don't think he will improve. I look forward to seeing good players who know when to take one touch, and when to dribble. Players who play with their heads up aware of their options.

We have all played football at some level, and we all know guys who want to do it all, who want to beat everyone, who hog it too long, and don't pass. They are not the best footballers. Lukaku and Barkley both fall into that category.
Sell them both in the summer, and get us some new heroes to moan at!

Tom Bowers
277 Posted 05/04/2017 at 17:28:14
Rom is a top-class finisher but not perfect, neither is Costa or Kane so what's the problem? If he wants to leave then get the money he is worth and be done with it.

Some fans are never satisfied so let them name some strikers who are better. Messi, Bale, Greizman, Lewandowski maybe to name a few but let's be realistic Rom. has his own style and Everton play to it for the most part. He has to plough a lone furrow at times and has done well over the last few years.

Sadly, he hasn't really had a good support player although Mirallas did form a good understanding with him for a while which is not happening now as Mirallas is being asked to play deeper in certain games. Frankly I see Mirallas going soon and maybe Rom. too.

Calvert-Lewin looks good but Valencia has had little chance to play and Koeman may not keep him anyway. Ross has been playing better this half of the season but once again let's himself and the team down with poor decision making when the right decision at vital moments could pay dividends.

Koeman has a lot of decisions to make and we all hope they are the right ones before next season.

Stan Schofield
278 Posted 05/04/2017 at 18:36:51
Unless I'm missing something, Lukaku has improved in a number of ways this season, hold up play, pressing, quality of passing. And he's said himself that he needs to improve, hardly the words of an arrogant gobshite.

I do agree with him about an answer to a question put to him, as to whether he watched Kane, and he replied he had no need to. But some folks seem to interpret that as arrogance.

He's played some fantastic games for us this season, and has just been awarded Premier League Player of the Month. He has two relatively bad games, amidst the usual tactical blunders away from home from Koeman, and we get the usual pouncing on him, the usual 'fuck off you arrogant prick', 'you lazy bastard', and various other charming little insults.

It's like some folks are lurking in the shadows, in wait whilst Lukaku is playing well and knocking the goals in, and then pouncing when he has a bad game, producing the usual vitriol that for others has become a tedious mantra.

And it's similar for Barkley.

Brian Williams
279 Posted 05/04/2017 at 18:59:38
Thing is, Stan, it's not just ToffeeWebbers saying it now. Every pundit on BT Sport, and they're not all numpties, seems to be saying what's been said by a lot on these pages. If ex-pros can see it, there must be something to it.
Stan Schofield
280 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:06:15
Brian, so-called 'pundits' have never really swayed me in the past, so I'll form my own judgements based on what I see on the pitch.
Darren Hind
281 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:07:42
Sorry Jamie,

I respect your point, but I cant agree with it.

Lukaku's commitment has always been suspect, He will get away with it as long as he is banging them in. but he will be rightly slaughtered for his attitude in games like the last two.

I would normally agree that team mates should not be washing their dirty linen in public, but I think the time for a quiet word in Lukaku's shell-like has long since gone. I suspect there has already been dozens of them over the seasons and Lukaku has simply shrugged his shoulders.

His supporters will throw out the usual "I don't want a forward chasing back 50 yards" and that is because they do not understand the point. He does not do enough to keep the ball.

When he surrendered possession trying his dainty little side step when we had a two v two situation, I nearly put me foot through the telly. I knew what was coming. Why the fuck did he not just knock it into the space on the left and make the defender turn around and have to fight him? Why did he just down tools when his lazy little trick didn't work?

His attitude can not be tolerated and I think most Evertonians were relieved to see Williams showing them that it isn't being tolerated.

Talking of Williams, I think its time for me to step into the confessional box. I have slaughtered him and Jagielka recently, but they were guts personified last night – even combined to make and take our goal.

Fair play to them. I hope they spend the rest of the season proving me wrong.

John Pierce
282 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:18:01
Stan,

The thing that stood out for me last night was in spite of the poor tactics employed by Koeman, despite the lack of a platform to help him attack Lukaku was left 1 on 1 with Rojo or Bailley several times in a vacant half of the pitch.

Each time either he just dribbled on to their boots or, were he looking to receive the ball, his movement was like that of Shrek mired in his swamp.

The self professed talker left with only his skills to get the job done, he was found lacking, and sorely at that.

I was screaming at the TV with 20 minutes left each time he or Barkley or Calvert-Lewin gave up the ball. Whilst not the only one culpable he certainly was the standout given his ability.

If he shoulder the fall out for last night its maybe because he deserved it?

I know Koeman was mostly at fault but you can't let the lad off lightly!

Mike Allen
283 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:25:57
Stan, Lukaku may well have scored some fantastic goals but "played some fantastic games" – not by a long chalk. I would say he's had more poor games than good, goals or not.
Dermot Byrne
284 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:29:38
Perhaps the worst thing now is Lukaku says he is willing to stay and the club, never mind team, gets built around him.

I think if he has missed his glory boat and people see his weaknesses, we should be clear with him of behaviour and development required if he is to stay. I can see Koeman doing that.

Paul Olsen
285 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:43:33
Think some might disagree with me, but I thought Rom was excellent in this one, especially in the first half. In the second half he was on his own, to try and make something. Only Barkley in support, and to be fair they both caused havoc a fair few times. Barkley, very hit and miss but in general one of the few able to cause concerns for Man Utd. The rest of our midfield and wing-backs never provided good enough support.

Davies needs a rest. I think he had a really poor game. Weak on the ball, sloppy passing. His performances have declined over a few weeks now.

The subs were definitely not up for it. Calvert-Lewin was awful. Pennington did okay, but his introduction put us even more on the backfoot, cue the inevitable heartbreak. Sadly we had no midfielder on the bench that could have made a difference.

And when United can bring on the likes of Pogba, Mkhitarian and Shaw (with no need to bring on Martial) you know you'll have a tough time in the end.

Good result nevertheless, but it very much highlighted the need for a busy summer. The kids are alright, but just not good enough yet.

John Daley
286 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:44:34
"...He has two relatively bad games, amidst the usual tactical blunders away from home from Koeman, and we get the usual pouncing on him, the usual 'fuck off you arrogant prick', 'you lazy bastard', and various other charming little insults."

As the senior professional, Williams was perfectly within his rights to have a pop, I thought.

As for the "tedious mantra"?

-------------
"Taking Mirallas off says everything about Koeman's away tactics. Shite."

"...tactical decisions away from home that demonstrate fear and futile containment"

"Give Koeman time, another two years, after which we'll know beyond all reasonable doubt that he's useless at marshalling an attacking Everton performance away from home"

"He's been left isolated consistently by Koeman's tactics, which have been lamentable (a posh term for total shite) away from home"

"Perhaps if Koeman got his away tactics sorted, we wouldn't get these 'Lukaku is a gobshite' posts."

"...his away tactics are repeatedly isolating Lukaku"

'Ron, Ron, go AWAY,
Come back with the 'home tactics' you used the other day.
Ron, Ron, go AWAY,
Little Lookman wants to play;
Ron, Ron, just jog on,
Or at least take a portable sign on your fucking travels saying Home Team: Everton'

Etc Etc Etc Etc
--------------

Seriously Stan, you don't half like to hammer a point home. Your (slightly simplistic) 'Koeman is a good home manager, but a hopeless away meff' musings must be spread across almost every thread going at the moment, having superseded the previous 'It is a FACT that Everton might, possibly, maybe, if they existed in a world where money was worth about as much as a Wacaday mallet, see more value in making Lukaku stay and run down his contract, rather than sell him' pummelling home of your particular point of view.


Paul Tran
287 Posted 05/04/2017 at 19:57:42
The big contrast for me last night was Lukaku always trying to 'do something' in unlikely circumstances, instead of holding on to the ball and using them back towards their bye line and Davies sticking to Carrick like glue and sacrificing himself for the good of the team.

That's game intelligence. The young kid has it, Rom doesn't.

Kim Vivian
288 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:20:36
Talking of substitutions I think he only used two, yeah? Should have brought Stekelenburg on for 15 seconds to face the penalty. Might have unsettled Ibra as well.
Mike Gaynes
289 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:27:41
John (#287), amen.

Paul (#288), off topic but any chance for us to meet up in Scotland next week when I come over from the US?

John Roberts
290 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:36:24
Ronald has done okay but last two games his substitutions have raised plenty of eyebrows!! Nobody would ever say why didn't he bring on Pennington, Calvert-Lewin etc etc had he not and we lost.
Andy Crooks
291 Posted 05/04/2017 at 20:51:32
Peter Roberts, Lukaku divides opinion more than any Everton player I can recall. I understand those who deride his apparent lack of effort. In my view, that will improve and he will be a fine player. I would like him to remain at Everton.

I don't, however, like your description of those who take a contrary view to yours as "fanboys"; frankly, it makes you sound like a fucking prick.

Don Alexander
292 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:30:05
To any but the blindest fan, Lukaku, when he's not scoring or assisting goals, is close to useless, and definitely so when it comes to winning the ball back. Barkley is the same. Pundits far and wide speak as one on this, and now Ozzie has now pointed out the truth on Barkley in the manner Ashley did about Lukaku last night.

If you're in a team playing against Everton it must gladden your heart that it's 11 v 9 when you're in possession, just as it must dismay the nine Evertonians not excused from busting a gut in pursuit of a result.

Whether the two of them are here next season is a moot point. Good as he can be I don't think Barkley is now capable of improvement and compared to the likes of Sigurdsson there's no comparison, not that the Icelander is the be all and end all. He's just got a very good all-round game and he scores more. That's the least we've long needed to see in Barkley's shirt in order to progress.

Obviously we'd need a proven goal-scorer or two if Lukaku conjures up a move to whatever Nirvana he's imagined this week, or next, or next, etc etc.

That said, I can't quite think of another striker who contributes less when the less glamorous work needs doing, but I can think of a few that, with the talent we're already starting to acquire, allied to more in the summer, will likely score sufficient to enable us to quickly forget him.

Jamie Crowley
293 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:41:42
Darren,

Sounding a total tree-hugging, anti-conflict peace-nick, I too respect your point and I get it.

If I were Ashley Williams I'd of wanted to storm out, get straight up in Rom's gob, and fucking verbally dismember him last night. I just simply wish to God no one would do that and demonstrate restraint in public, on the pitch, especially in the middle of a game.

We're a team. Not a conglomeration of individuals. At least (and again it's a completely naive assertion on my part) that's the way it SHOULD be. So deserved or not, I simply don't like it and in my opinion it shouldn't happen.

Anywho, cheers mate. This season is frustrating. I'm about as frustrated as I was in Martinez's second season. I see what we're trying to accomplish but we are coming up short when it counts.

Ten years of this and it's seriously getting on my nerves. I pity those of you who have been through this shit for three decades.

David Barks
294 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:43:35
Sorry, Don, but I don't remember seeing Zlatan running around in the defensive third making tackles last night. Funny statement that too, that a striker, apart from scoring a load of goals and assisting on goals, doesn't do much.

Crying out for a Monty Python skit, "but apart from scoring goals, and setting up goals, and being the only focal point for attack, always drawing 3-4 defenders, and our record goal scorer in the modern era..."

Rob Dolby
295 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:44:56
Seems that the thread has changed to judging Lukaku more than the game. Where do you rate Lukaku amongst the great forwards that we have had?

I do think that his all round game has improved this season though his attitude, workrate and link-up play are the things that will prevent him from becoming a great player.

In my time supporting the blues:

Sharpe
Latchford
Beardsley
Rooney
Gray
Ferguson
Lineker
Lukaku

Jamie Crowley
296 Posted 05/04/2017 at 21:54:18
Tom Bowers @278

Time for an absolutely wack-a-doodle answer to the, "if not Rom, who then?" question: Jamie Vardy.

I don't give a fiddler's fart what people think of that. I absolutely love Jamie Vardy. I don't think you'd ever see a supporter leave pissed off at his effort.

He's not even remotely as gifted, blessed by God above, with Rom's talent.

But that guy, smarmy little convenience store knock-off artist he'd be if he weren't a footballer – NEVER STOPS. He would harass, chase down, disrupt, hold up play, and do ANYTHING to win.

It's not a realistic answer to your question. But give me a guy like that all day long who literally would run through a wall and die for the cause every single time. He'd never do what Rom did last night. I absolutely love to watch that man play.

And before anyone says he's not good enough, he won a fucking title last year and is currently in the Champions League. Seems good enough to me, and I would never, ever bore of watching him play and would applaud his effort constantly.

But what I really want isn't a Rom replacement. I want Rom to do the dirty work he doesn't like to and pull his head out of his ass; staying at Everton his entire career.

Dave Abrahams
297 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:05:47
Off track, don't know if anyone is interested but Liverpool drew 2-2, feeling a bit better now.
Mark Morrissey
298 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:09:45
For Jamie @ 297. What will be really interesting reading are the stats following our game against Leicester. The stats comparing Rom's efforts and Vardy's. I rate Vardy highly too and I want to see how they compare on the day.

Rom's done very well for us but only when the team are buzzing. For me, Rom is poor when the team struggles and he could improve hugely with just a touch more effort when we don't have the ball.

Looking forward to Sunday. I suspect Williams was thinking the same last night when he appeared to lay into Rom. Roll on Sunday. Let's see what occurs.

Stan Schofield
299 Posted 05/04/2017 at 22:36:21
John @287:

I must admit, I do rather enjoy hammering a point, especially when I think it's a good point. It might be called 'pontificating', but I suppose that's what TW is for, to allow us Evertonians to pontificate about Everton.

It's just that there does seem large amount of repetitious pontificating about Lukaku, many threads on other topics rapidly turning into 'Lukaku is a useless tosser' thread when we lose a game.

Don Alexander
300 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:15:08
Dave Barks, the Man Utd poser is playing in front of 100's of millions pounds of er, "talent" and they, a waning team, are marginally above lil' ol' us, conceding more goals than they think they should. Like Lukaku he does diddly-squat when not pointing where the ball should have been delivered and, yes, he too scores consistently against lesser teams, but not those at the top. Go figure.

Like Lukaku, that arrogant twat today has come out and said Man Utd need to show they match HIS ambition if they want him to stay next season but in fairness to him he's had well over a decade actually scoring goals for teams who've won the Champions League, their league and everything else available to them. If our gobshite had achieved any of those things for us I'd cut him some slack, but he hasn't, even though he's signed lengthy lucrative contracts.

Brian Williams
301 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:19:37
Stan, you and I have swapped enough posts for me to know you're a reasonable bloke but you have to admit the "evidence" pointing to Lukaku's foibles is mounting.

Nobody disputes his goal scoring abilities but you must surely be able to see the times when he just isn't 100% up for it. I can forgive lack of skill in any player if he's giving 100% but find it hard to warm to any player who doesn't give 100%.

ToffeeWebbers see it, pundits see it, and even team mates are making it clear they're not happy. There has to be something in it Stan, surely?

ps: I don't think for one minute he's a useless tosser.

Stan Schofield
302 Posted 05/04/2017 at 23:33:29
Brian, yes, I do recognise his shortcomings, and have said so many times.

I said, once Koeman was appointed, that I hoped Koeman would be a disciplinarian who would not tolerate players not putting a shift in, Lukaku included. As I said above, Lukaku himself has stated quite openly that he has much to learn.

I believe he's been improving, and hopefully will continue to do so with Everton. But, to be honest, pundits don't interest me, which is why I turn the sound off when watching MotD so I don't have to listen to their drivel.

Paul Smith
303 Posted 05/04/2017 at 00:07:20
Paul Tran,

I agree that Davies has an astute "football brain" even when not playing well last night he put himself in the right place. For some one so young he's very "pitch wise" (if that's a term). Anyway im excited and eager to watch him develop in the future.

I feel in keeping with the theme of every thread at the moment I must say something about Rom: err... .he's... ahh it's all been done to death, sack it bed time.

Don Alexander
304 Posted 06/04/2017 at 00:22:53
Being "pitch-wise" should be a term. It sorts the wheat from the chaff in professional football. That sort of scouse-nowse gives me hope for our Tom. Even Bally had off-days, but nobody beat him up as much as he did himself on those rare occasions. He too had scouse-nowse.
John Pierce
305 Posted 06/04/2017 at 01:18:09
Rob Dolby – great list.

Sharp – won loads and stayed for 10years clearly better than Lukaku

Latchford – iconic the stuff of boyhood dreams a romantic choice. Lukaku's record probably bests him

Beardsley – his career puts Lukaku in a box, more skill in his little finger, deffo above.

Rooney –ditto, but for his Everton career Lukaku beats him

Gray – did the lot, especially when he didn't score he took the fight to the oppo, Lukaku ain't even in the same frame.

Ferguson – could easily be below Rom but scored in games that mattered to us. A subjective view but it matters. Scourge of Utd and RS.

Lineker – is his latter day equal, needs a team to play for him to get the goals. Rom's peer.

Lukaku – needs the team to play for him. His record is amazing but when you see all but 6/7 goals from outside the area you know he is a one dimensional, albeit amazing, player.

So, all-in-all, somewhere in the middle.

Gordon Crawford
306 Posted 06/04/2017 at 01:29:25
Watched Match of the Day and it was so biased towards Manchester United, it's embarrassing. You thought we where only there to make up the numbers.

And tonight, for the first time, I got to see what looks like Lukaku complain to Pogba about Williams. He showed Williams no respect whatsoever. He needs to grow up.

Roman Sidey
307 Posted 05/04/2017 at 01:34:55
Kevin Rowlands, absolute bollocks regarding Lukaku's reactions when other players score. I'm not saying he is ALWAYS going crazy celebrating, but more often than not he is getting right amongst it. You've been shown his celebration with Jags last night and I would point not too long ago to last Saturday when Pennington scored.

I am a Lukaku fan, but I don't think he is infallible – typical of many Everton supporters to turn on a player who has confidence and actually wants to win things, unlike the garbage underachievers we've put up with for the past whoever knows how long – but to just blatantly make something up like that to criticise a player with is plain rotten.

Andrew Keatley
308 Posted 06/04/2017 at 02:08:24
Gordon Crawford (307) – Lukaku could have been complaining to Pogba about any number of things. What makes you think it looked like he was complaining about Ashley Williams?

I know Calvert-Lewin has come in for some criticism for recent displays, but he's a centre-forward being played as a wide man/auxiliary striker, so for me the jury is still very much out.

Pennington has had to come in, against difficult opposition, and defend centrally. Right now he's not remotely up to it; he looks like a schoolboy in a man's game. I hope he improves. He needs to.

Phil Sammon
309 Posted 06/04/2017 at 02:17:53
Roman (#308),

I have to completely disagree with you regarding Rom and his celebrations. More often than not he does not go and congratulate a teammate that bags a goal. Not that I particularly care... but it would be a very hollow club if every player behaved like that after a goal. And you can bet that Rom himself would expect the pat on the back when he buries one.

I like Lukaku as a player, but he does come across as a very selfish and petulant individual. The amount of times you see him, arms outstretched, as if to say "Why didn't you put it on a plate for me?" Meanwhile he will quite happily ignore support, run himself down blind alleys or go for goal from 30 yards with his right foot and then clasp his open mouth as if he was a whisker away from brilliance.

It says it all that even with all his goals, he still divides the fans. He should be a legend at the club, given our recent dearth of goal scorers.

Brian Wilkinson
310 Posted 06/04/2017 at 05:03:10
Pick up as many points we can, then in the Summer get our transfer targets in as early as possible.

Last night's game was a vast improvement. Once we have hopefully a top 6 spot nailed, give the likes of Kenny and Dowell a run out.

Hopefully next season we might be luckier on the injury front.

Eddie Dunn
311 Posted 06/04/2017 at 08:52:45
it was very hard to use the last two games as a yardstick without Schneiderlin, as he is probably the most important signing of Koeman's reign.

At Old Trafford, he would have provided us with the midfield stability to prevent the game turning into the "attack versus defence" spectacle that we all witnessed as our midfield was overrun.

Incidentally, the Zlatan v Lukaku comparisons above are very interesting. No you don't see the Swede running back in defence, putting in tackles, but what you do see is him receiving possession, holding the ball and passing to teammates in and around the box. He has a fabulous football brain, and despite his age can influence a game which is played at an incredible pace.

Lukaku has two main abilities. He likes the ball in front of him for him to run on to. He can then use his pace to either leave his opponent in his wake, then his accuracy is excellent. His other move is to come in from the right onto his left foot and drag any defenders with him. His close control is good as he tries to get the half yard to unleash his shot.

Zlatan no longer has the pace of his early years, but he reads the game well. His physical strength enables him to hold off any defenders, and he plays with his head up and sees everything that is going on. He spots when a keeper is off his line, when a defender has left a gap, he has a tremendous shot and is brilliant in the air.

When Romelu is 35, he won't be anywhere near as effective, as his game is all about pace. Like Lineker, he depends on that main quality to score his goals.

Kevin Rowlands
312 Posted 06/04/2017 at 12:51:18
It's not bollocks, Roman, it's who he is, it's all me me me me with the lad, from his interactions with the press to his on field performance, his on field antics, his finger pointing, sulking, pouting, arm waving, whining at teammates. Hence the Williams reaction the other night, they've probably had enough of him.

Anyway hopefully good news: BBC Sport are reporting that a Chelsea move is 99% done, please let that be true – the sooner he's out, the better for everyone, including him.

Tony Kost
313 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:09:27
The short version: Rom is a superb player when he wants to be – I'd love him to stay... but I don't want anyone in the club who disrespects it and other players.

We must have a happy ship; will Rom ever shut up (talking to the press, family interjections, player's agent! etc)?

If not... Sail on, Rom; if the grass is greener, let us know!

Dan Egerton
315 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:23:27
Barry was great. Everton's Man of the Match for me. He did well against Man Utd but would have suffered against Liverpool's faster midfield.
Dan Egerton
316 Posted 06/04/2017 at 14:30:26
Watch the first bit of this video. Once again, our loss against Man Utd in the FA Cup. Watch how selfish Rom is.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWgJJPT67m4

A simple pass to Cleverley and he scores. But Rom holds onto the ball.

Roman Sidey
318 Posted 07/04/2017 at 01:28:39
That's all good and well, Kevin, but I was calling you out for saying he doesn't celebrate when other players score goals, which is categorically untrue.

For me, I want a selfish striker who gets the shits if he doesn't score. I'm not saying I want a striker who disrespects a club, but people seem to be getting very precious about that these days. On here we get people berating the board, the management staff, the players, and then other supporters. What else is there to a football club?

Kevin Rowlands
319 Posted 07/04/2017 at 03:00:42
Ok Roman.
Jim Hardin
320 Posted 07/04/2017 at 23:13:08
I feel sorry for Lukaku as he realizes that he is destined to play for a manager and fans who continue to stick him with the albatross that is Ross Barkley (local bird though so carry on) around his neck every game.

How frustrating it must be to prepare for a game knowing that no matter what runs you make or what you do, that Ross will either dribble into defenders and lose the ball then fall over, or almost worse, pass the ball right to the opposition, instead of making an easy pass to space. Yes, I watch the games and replay them and see Rom make the effort so many on here claim he does not.

But then, to have a relative newcomer to the squad, who captained the team that broke his teammate's leg and did nothing about it, or the Bale tackle earlier (good captain could have toned down the game and maybe the tackle on Coleman doesn't happen), gesticulating and yelling at him, well, Lukaku should have dropped him right then and there.

I wonder why Williams wasn't yelling at his players then? Lukaku merely told him to shush which is the way you scold a child or someone acting like one. Especially when the petulant not-captain costs his team two points with a handling call and a red card. Good on you Rom.

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