Barkley punched in bar by unidentified man

Monday 10 April 2017  284 Comments  [Jump to last]
Merseyside Police are investigating an apparently unprovoked physical assault on Ross Barkley in a Liverpool bar last night.

The 23-year-old was out celebrating Everton's 4-2 win over Leicester City when he was punched in the face following a discussion with an unknown party.

A statement from Barkley's solicitor's read: “We can confirm that Ross was the victim of an unprovoked attack by a stranger who approached him on Sunday evening.”

Meanwhile, the local authorities released a statement of their own after CCTV video of the incident emerged online.

“Merseyside Police is aware of footage online reportedly showing an assault in a bar in Liverpool city centre.

“No report of an assault has been received but officers are making enquiries to establish the circumstances of the incident.”

Barkley trained as normal at Finch Farm today, seemingly prepared to put the incident behind him without the need to press charges. Everton were not made aware of it until the video surfaced online.

 

Reader Comments (284)

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Eugene Ruane
1 Posted 10/04/2017 at 10:29:13
Clip of film on Twitter supposedly showing Barkley being sparked in some club last night.

The punch is certainly delivered in a king-hit, 'I was always going to punch someone tonight' fashion, by some clearly unhinged, dangerous, beaked/juiced hero.

Link

Robert Elliott
2 Posted 10/04/2017 at 10:46:47
Appears that someone has recorded that directly from the club's CCTV system with the operator finding it highly amusing.

Perhaps they'll be less amused when their licence comes under threat as there are strict guidelines for how licensed premises are supposed to deal with issues of violence on their premises. Recording it, laughing at it and then leaking it onto Twitter isn't generally the approved method!

Brian Williams
3 Posted 10/04/2017 at 11:30:56
Saw the clip allegedly involving Barkley and it reinforces my feeling towards the misuse of social media and to be honest, social media in general.

Barkley or not someone not expecting to get hit, and appearing to make placatory moves towards the fucking nutcase, ends up getting one "stolen on him" by some cowardly fucking arsehole.

And to make matters worse it "goes viral."

Absolutely pisses me off and I hope the idiot is identified and gaoled, and those involved in releasing it are gaoled too.

See how the tosser fares inside where he won't be able to steal one on somebody and get away with it.

ps: If it is Ross I'm gutted for him because a more unassuming, almost awkward with his fame, young lad, you couldn't wish to meet.

Gordon Crawford
4 Posted 10/04/2017 at 11:46:17
Just seen the clip too, thanks for posting. No matter who it is, that attacker should be locked up. But it does sadly look like Ross. Disgrace either way.
Colin Glassar
5 Posted 10/04/2017 at 12:36:39
It's definitely Ross. The other fella looks like he's on spice. Dickhead.
Chris Gould
6 Posted 10/04/2017 at 12:45:35
Absolutely shocking. I really hope that arsehole isn't someone who considers himself an Evertonian.

This could definitely influence Ross's decision. Why stay if you can't go out in your own City without getting assaulted? Maybe it was a hateful Liverpool fan, discussing Ross's poor challenge on Lovren? But unfortunately, it's just as likely to be one of the many 'so called' Everton fans who can be equally as hateful towards the lad.

I love Ross Barkley and desperately want him to stay, but if he decides to leave then he gets my full support.

James MacGlashan
7 Posted 10/04/2017 at 13:00:45
Regarding the CCTV. Who posted it on Twitter and is heard commenting on it? An employee of the club?
Michael Lynch
8 Posted 10/04/2017 at 13:40:38
Ross's lawyer has confirmed it was him. As has already been mentioned, could this be the deal-breaker for Barkley to leave?
John G Davies
9 Posted 10/04/2017 at 13:45:37
Michael,

Don't know about the deal breaker but it could be a jaw breaker. Getting hit on the chin when unexpected and with an open mouth there's every chance his jaw will go.

Kieran Kinsella
10 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:02:03
Why are the police investigating? There was apparently no complaint made. So do they routinely scour pub CCTV footage to see if anyone punches someone?
Steve Ferns
11 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:05:24
He turned in for training. Everton knew nothing about it. Looks like Ross was keeping it quiet.

From the Daily Mail website:

"Barkley trained at Everton's Finch Farm training ground as normal on Monday despite appearing to be involved in the altercation."

Steve Ferns
12 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:10:40
Kieran, if the police become aware of a crime, such as an unprovoked attack as shown, then they will always investigate. Here they know who the victim is and so they are duty bound to speak to him.
Liam Reilly
13 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:14:17
Just seen that clip; what a cowardly piece of shit. Shouldn't be too difficut to identify him.

Still he's probably just another poor misunderstood individual who's fallen on hard times and needs some support and guidance as opposed to custodial sentance.

Richard Reeves
14 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:24:55
What a dirty rat bastard! Obviously from his body language he was throwing that punch from the off. In an ideal world, Ross would be on to the Blue Batphone calling Bomber Bellew... calling Bomber Bellew... come in Bomber.
Kevin Rowlands
15 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:30:35
Looks like Barkley knew the lad to me, he has his hand on his shoulder, is talking to him, brushes his shoulder and chin, whatever was getting said you can clearly see the lad getting angry and starting to clench his fist then he swings.

Speculation on the People's Forum is he did know him and it's an on going thing between them. Shouldn't put himself in them type of situation stuff, but he's a young lad, hopefully a lesson learned.

Robert Elliott
16 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:45:46
Kieran (62) under something called ethical crime recording the Police are duty bound to raise a crime report and investigate whenever they became aware of a crime being committed.

The views of the victim will be taken into account but as this assault was clearly caught on CCTV and the actions of the offender speak for themselves then I would imagine whoever is responsible, once identified, will face prosecution regardless of the views of Ross Barkley.

The establishment where this occurred will also face questions as to why this wasn't reported to Police at the time and how the CCTV footage managed to find its way on to social media.

Adam Scott
17 Posted 10/04/2017 at 14:59:38
They have every right to do what they want Colin, don't disagree with that. Not blaming Ross for any of this but as an Everton player you are a target for knobheads.

Let's put this into some context. I am a teacher- I know this isn't professional football fame but as a known member of the community I don't live in the town I work in. Why? because I am happier having that bit of anonymity. Like Ross, going out in the town and facing the prospect seeing the sixth formers, past and present really isn't professionally sensible or my idea of fun. IT only takes one who wants to be either 'overfriendly' or a knob and you find yourself in grief.

Ross in Liverpool is simply an much amplified version of this. I don't know why he would want to do it?

Dave Ganley
18 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:22:04
Adam quite right. Robbie Fowler used to go out in town too and got grief all the time. Unfortunately the fame being a footballer brings all the nutters to the fore. Doesn't matter what town you're in or from its still the same all over.

This shouldn't be a deal breaker one way or the other. There are plenty of places that the rich and famous can go to without having to go to bars in town. As I say it shouldn't be the case but unfortunately it is.

Footballers, whether they like it or not are on that pedestal and they can't just swan around in town like a normal member of the public without getting attention from somewhere. Most of the time it will be positive but occasionally there will be some idiot waiting to have a go. Just ask Fowler.

John Daley
19 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:29:58
"..you can clearly see the lad getting angry and starting to clench his fist.."

Kev (@15),

Come on. It's grainy, jerky, ripped second-hand to a mobile from a monitor, black & white CCTV footage. Everybody looks like fucking Morph with hair. You can barely make out facial features never mind the exact moment someone starts to fume or form a fist. Snide shit-heel looked like he was smirking up until the moment he smacked him to me (although, for the reason stated above, I certainly could never be sure) and the chance to take a surprise pop could have been the sole purpose behind him coming over all pally with Barkley.

I'm sure we'll get the rumour mill spewing forth all sorts of unfounded rubbish again, as usual: "Ross asked him how much to shag his bird", "They've known each other for years and have been mortal enemies ever since their mom's parked their buggies too close together in 'Morrisons' and baby Ross gave dat other lad a right dirty look when he got a whiff of the dump he did in his nappy", "He was a vengeful spirit conjured up by Dejan Lovren's Djinn lover in retaliation for Ross almost doing him with a reckless tackle. Swear down, lad. Bit like the monster in dat movie 'Pumpkinhead', except he's called 'Pisscanhead'."

Let's just hope he's physically ok, not too shook up and the other prick receives the punishment he deserves.

Oliver Molloy
20 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:31:07
People who throw blinders like this guy did are cowards deep down.

What is more concerning is where are Barkley's mates / minders?

There has to be more footage, surely.

Jim Bennings
21 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:34:46
Well if that was me I'd have got up and smacked the little six fingered knuckle dragging mutant into next week, so if Barkley had not retaliated then fair play but a shame, would have liked to have seen the mutants head roll.
Colin Hughes
22 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:41:21
Despite (according to the BBC) no complaint being made, I hope Merseyside police identify this kopite scumbag, who clearly thinks he can dish out his own punishment to one of our players for doing in a derby what Gerrard had been doing for years, or it sends out a bad signal that these thugs can get away with it.

Everybody knows how dangerous a single punch can end up being... it was so long ago that one of our own fans was killed in town after our 7-1 win over Sunderland by that ex-Kopite's stepson.

Paul Ferry
23 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:43:52
Real mature stuff there Jim Bennings (#21).

1. You 'would have liked to see the mutants head roll' This, therefore, makes you the equivalent of the 'mutant'. Also check views on here about said 'mutant'.

2. You want Ross to 'roll' his head. You want Ross to be in every bit of news until his day in court with all the dire consequences that will have for Ross and Everton? Utterly unbelievable!

3. Thank God Ross has more self-control and appreciation of events than you have.

4. This post tells us a lot more about you than the event.

John Wilson
24 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:52:12
You do not know what was said when Ross touched the other person... it could have been intimidating.

Ross should have left well alone which indicates he was likely tanked up and were he to have been sober, he likely would not have got involved as he would have been more alert to the problems. But drink does something to the brain.

Ross could have been stabbed never mind punched, and this could have happened anywhere, so stop bloody over reacting saying Ross may have had enough being at Everton. Ross is from Liverpool – he is not Johnny go down lightly. He probably realises that where it not for his own input we would not have been punched.

The police will only charge someone if there is a prospect of it leading to a conviction. Ross is a millionaire and he would not like the publicity.

John G Davies
25 Posted 10/04/2017 at 15:57:33
Great that he trained today if that is right as mentioned above. Not sure that is right though, do they train day after a match?

Hopefully went in for a stretch and a massage, if so he's not badly hurt and can put it down to experience and stay out of places like where he was.

John, your wrong there. The lad got himself into position to throw a punch a few seconds before, you can see him moving his feet and body shape getting leverage.

Ste Traverse
26 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:03:38
Players should be able to enjoy a night out round town but there will always be some beaut out to make a name for themselves. Maybe they should stay in or go out elsewhere.

That said, I've seen many a player from both clubs in various Liverpool nightclubs and not seen them get any hassle. I even recall seeing Stevie Me in the infamous Pleasure Rooms around 2004 ish surrounded by his Huyton cronies.

Kevin Rowlands
27 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:07:39
Just watched it again, John, it's a lot clearer than most CC pictures/video you see.

I'm not condoning what the twat did but there is clearly interaction between them, Barkley actually puts his hands on the lad first by brushing his shoulder then it looks like stroking under his chin and saying something.

I wouldn't be convinced that this was completely unprovoked as they're claiming.

Andy Meighan
28 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:07:58
Can't see it being a Liverpool fan. What Liverpool fan in his right mind would chin him? He'd thank him for always playing shit against them.

Seriously, though, hope the bitter horrible prick gets what's coming to him.
John Wilson
29 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:13:33
John G. I have not viewed the CCTV camera images but people do not just punch for its sake. There must have been a reason.

If this were the case then Ross would be punched every time we went out. The lad must have felt a threat – use loosely even – for him to have reacted as he did.

It may have been an Everton fan who cannot tell the difference between being a fan and frustrated with his performances on the pitch and in his view, his right to attack him where chance avails itself.

Joe Clitherow
30 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:23:41
John G. "I have not viewed the CCTV camera images but people do not just punch for its sake. There must have been a reason."

Are you for real? You are aware that Class A narcotics are freely available in Liverpool, right?

There are plenty of horrible little scrotes who would punch you or anyone else for the sole reason that they imagined some slight in their coke-addled paranoid little minds. Who knows what happened here without all the facts?

Saying there has to be a "reason" that makes sense to a "reasonable" person is ridiculous and very naive, and I'm not exactly sure what point you are trying to make?

James Hughes
31 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:27:56
I you look at the big fella behind the assailant, he grabs the lad very quickly after the punch is thrown, almost as he was expecting the lad to do it. Couple of reasons he would do that, but if he was Ross's minder he was a bit slow.
Brian Williams
32 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:29:23
John Wilson (#29).

No disrespect John but if you truly believe that, you've led a very sheltered life. There are unprovoked attacks in most cities in the UK every weekend of the year.

John G Davies
33 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:29:48
John Wilson #29

Naive your comment there.

Patrick Murphy
34 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:31:15
'He should know better than to go out in town', 'he probably said something untoward to cause the reaction', 'he shouldn't be drinking as alcohol causes the brain to stop functioning properly'.

Honestly how posters can get so much information from a CCTV image is beyond me1 No matter what state that Ross was in drunk or sober, no matter what was said by him to the other bloke, the fact he was punched in the kisser is not what I would call civilised behaviour no matter who is involved, no matter what motive lay behind that behaviour.

If your son or brother or mate was in a pub and somebody they were talking too flattened them would you be worried about what the victim had said or done? Probably not, and most people would want to see the attacker face their just rewards.

Perhaps some of the speculation made on this thread is why Ross didn't want to press charges?

Kevin Rowlands
35 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:35:13
Joe, I would ask what was the reason Ross was putting his hands on the lad first as well, anyway thankfully the twat didn't have a glass in his hands when he did it, then we would have a very serious problem.

Anyway, hopefully someone at the club speaks to him about being a bit more selective and careful where he's hanging out.

James Byrne
36 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:39:53
Someone at the club surely has to question why Ross was in the City centre so late, or even out drinking. The lad is such a high profile, recognizable person who will always attract attention.

I've lived in this city all my life and you wouldn't see me in the City Centre any weekend drinking that late. There's no shortage of knob-heads like the thug in this video just waiting to kick off.

Derek Knox
37 Posted 10/04/2017 at 16:47:14
There is no mention of the striker getting a red card!

Joking apart, that sort of behaviour should not be tolerated at all. I sincerely hope Ross has no after effects, and more importantly, the perpetrator is caught, hung and quartered.

Probably just get a smacked wrist, the way the justice system is.

Kieran Kinsella
38 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:00:16
Pretty sure it was Leon Oscan who hit him.
Joe Clitherow
39 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:04:14
Kevin How the eff would you, I or anyone else know?

And, by the way, what the eff has that got to do with anything.

There may well be previous, who knows? Whatever was said is no justification for a cowardly attack like that. It is quite unbelievable some people on here making up fairy stories talking about possible provocation or anything else.

Take Ross Barkley the famous footballer out of that video and a judge looking at that has only one conclusion - you're going down sunshine! He doesn't start thinking "yeah but I reckon the curly haired lad is doing something to rile him outside" or "he touched him before he got clocked". No, like Roy Walker on Catchphrase, he says what he sees and because he sees it he says it.

Cowardly attack, getting a victim's confidence and then assaulting him. Completely unprovoked in the eyes of the court.

Mark Morrissey
40 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:04:17
I cannot believe that Ross went out and missed Countryfile. An absolute disgrace.Hope he gets to see it on catchup.

It's a sad indictment on society that Ross cannot go out and have a few beers with his mates. The price of being a famous face I'm afraid to say. It's nothing more than some prick simply wanting to say, "I smacked that Barkley fella".

He is no doubt a saddo who supports a shit football club and is simply jealous of Ross's status in life. Moron.

Mike Gaynes
41 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:04:41
Joey Barton have an alibi?
Mike Berry
42 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:04:45
It is a pity that a person in the spotlight cannot go out in a popular area without some idiot causing trouble. But the best safe guard is to pick your places carefully and don't stay out late!

If he has been assaulted then yes he should press charges, not to do so send out the wrong message, idiots should not think they have impunity.

Hopefully line drawn asap learns and moves on.

John Daley
43 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:06:15
"Let's put this into some context. I am a teacher- I know this isn't professional football fame but as a known member of the community I don't live in the town I work in"

Sorry, but that's not putting it into context at all. Ok, you might be recognised by your own pupils, their parents and past attendees, but you're not going to be recognised by people from the opposite end of the country or unfairly targeted by those with an affiliation to a 'rival' school. 

Thanks to the global popularity of the Premier League the top players are known all over the world. There's nowhere populated they can go to be absolutely guaranteed anonymity. 

So, instead of going out in Liverpool, say Ross opts to go on a secret bender in St. Beezey in Cornwall. Is that 'problem solved' by simple virtue of the fact there's significantly less people and he doesn't live there?

Someone is still going to cotton on to who he is and if that person, or any others who hear he's in town, happens to be a gobshite or a Tic Tac brained thug, then there's still the possibility of him becoming a convenient target for unwarranted verbal abuse or violence. Maybe it's actually more risky in a less populated place because there's fewer people around to witness what might happen or likely to jump in and put a stop to such behaviour?

What about when he pops to the supermarket? Is that a risky act of stupidity given that he could order online and get his scran delivered instead, because nobhead neanderthal's have also been known to roam the streets before noon and have to head somewhere to restock their Haribo's on a regular basis?

I don't see a football player going out for a drink on the odd occasion and mingling with people who don't earn millions as "swanning about" or 'pushing his luck'. Are they supposed to cut themselves off from contact with the outside world completely and view their salary as fair recompense for residing in a stifling, suffocating bubble, whilst refraining from ever again sampling the simple pleasures everyone else takes for granted? It's never going to happen, especially when you're talking about young men with the normal yearnings of anyone else their own age.

Regardless, the real problem isn't on their part or of their own making. It's societal. It's the 'cut loose at all costs' culture that has been allowed to take grip in this country.

People get smacked by pissed up loons every weekend of the year, in every city and town throughout the country, regardless of their profession or any provocation other than being present. Police force's spend an obscene amount of their time and resources mopping up and containing the bloody mess an army of barely coherent, mashed-potato mouthed, beer monsters, trail in their wasted wake. They even film and whack footage on TV of the totally wankered Walking Dead stumbling all over the shop, spewing in the street and stomping on heads and try to pass it off as some form of bizarre 'entertainment'.

This time it was Ross who was the unlucky one, next time it could be anybody not nervous enough to lock themselves away every night out of fear of getting fucked over. Doesn't matter if they're a footballer or a fishmonger.

Andrew Keatley
44 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:11:53
Some of the speculation on here as the identity of the man who assaulted Barkley – and his possible motivation – is totally unhelpful. As for the "this-could-be-the-deal-breaker-for-Barkley-to-leave" narrative, at this stage that is some pretty impressive scaremongering...
David Barks
45 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:16:23
Stories like this should have the comments turned off. Anyone who views that and comes out with any blame toward Barkley is an extremely sad individual. He was out at night, and was sucker punched. He wasn't in a fight, he was punched. Just shut up with stupid, unfounded speculation about "I wouldn't be convinced that this was completely unprovoked".

No, it was unprovoked. A hand on a shoulder does not, ever, ever, warrant a fucking punch in the face. Good God.

Vince Furnier
46 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:19:46
Perhaps Koeman had a third option for Barkley?
Brent Stephens
47 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:23:06
David (#45), "I wouldn't be convinced that this was completely unprovoked" means "I know fuck-all".
Kevin Rowlands
48 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:33:07
Hey Joe, calm down, I never said I effing know anything.

I said that if you watch the video there is clearly more going on than a stranger just cold cocking him just for the fun of it. Why was he stroking the lad under the chin and brushing his shoulder? Just because he felt like it?

And btw David, I disagree with anything you post, Barks, I said I did not condone what the lad did, just that there looks like there was more to this by watching the footage.

Jerome Shields
49 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:38:15
I had a young cousin unconscious for two days after such a punch. He wasn't aware of it. Looks that Barkley was, hence the recovery.

Such a Judas punch. In Australia it's treated like manslaughter with a long time in jail to match. So it should.
Bill Gall
51 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:40:40
Not the first recognizable celebrity that has been hit in a Liverpool nightclub and I doubt if it will be the last.

The downside of this is, it is a shame that just because you are a noted celebrity, you can't have a night out and enjoy it, without having to be on your guard all the time.

Do not forget that Barkley is just a young man and no different from a lot of other young men who like to go out and wind down after work, and not to look for trouble.

Eddie Dunn
52 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:43:10
Crap quality images, and who knows what led up to this incident. Public figures have to be wary of these situations, and presumably Ross will be more careful where he drinks, who he is with and who he talks to in future.

We all live and learn from these things, but at least it was just a punch and nothing worse.

Also, this could occur anywhere in the country, for tribal reasons or for reasons like jealousy or envy.

As John Daley says- –you can get thumped anywhere – whether it is in the centre of a city or in the back of a hay cart in rural Suffolk (in which case, you probably deserve it).

Joe Clitherow
53 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:49:33
Nah I'm perfectly calm Kev. I just don't agree with you saying that there is "clearly" more. There may well be. They may well know each other.

I could say that Ross looks a bit pissed to me and pissed people do stupid things and are often over familiar ("Arrr come 'ere lad, I've always loved you" type of thing). It doesn't matter one jot.

What I am saying is that there is no excuse. Sorry, but you saying that sounds a bit like you were making an excuse for the response, whether you meant to or not.

No verbal provocation, or putting a hand on the shoulder justifies that response. Therefore it is completely unprovoked.

Catchphrase, Kev, start watching Catchphrase.

Dermot Byrne
54 Posted 10/04/2017 at 17:53:19
"But people do not just punch for its sake. "

I have a scar on left eyebrow that says otherwise.

Wise up!

Kevin Rowlands
55 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:00:04
Joe, if this goes to a jury you can be guaranteed they would ask Barkley why was he touching the lad first. They would also be asking the lad what was said to provoke his reaction.
Adam Scott
56 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:01:26
John, you are right in a way. The comment about me 'putting into context' was obviously a different scenario to Ross, but was aimed at those who suggests that it was only footballers who have the dilemma about going out in the locality of their work. It isn't.

You say about Ross being recognised anywhere he goes. Of course you are correct. In other areas though I don't think that he:
1) Would evoke the same feelings amongst those tanked up.
2) In liverpool, he transcends football. He is a local celebrity 'one of our own' he is known by people who are not football fans.

Outside of Liverpool I feel that there are less issues. Certainly in areas such as Formby, Alderley Edge, Wilmslow etc. where these 'meathead' lads tanked on too much Carling don't go. I doubt a 50 year old property developer drinking a barolo with his misses is as likely to throw a punch...

Secondly, you are right. Could happen at the supermarket etc. Should he avoid this- no. A simple risk assessment would suggest that the likelihood is less. In a bar though? Late on? Much more likely.

I differ with your thing about footballers cutting themselves off from society. Not suggesting that at all. A meal, a 'decent' bar is fine. I don't see avoiding places like this as much of a sacrifice, no. That is life- Like I pointed out, many more of us make sacrifices because of our profession. It is not unique to Ross.

I do have a problem really with high level athletes drinking in the peak part of the season. I know there is no proof that he has, and I don't wish to speculate like some. None of my business, but If I were Koeman I do think I would expect more.

He is a good lad I feel. People mention horrific incidents that are sadly not uncommon enough that happen in these bars. Why is he putting himself in this position?

Brent Stephens
57 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:12:01
Kevin #55 "if this goes to a jury, you can be guaranteed they would ask Barkley why was he touching the lad first. They would also be asking the lad what was said to provoke his reaction."

If you mean that literally, then clearly a jury doesn't get to ask questions in court.

If you mean defence lawyers would ask those questions, why would they? To suggest that touching somebody justifies lamping them? Surely no lawyer would look to that as a defence. Ditto something that has been said.

Kieran Kinsella
58 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:15:16
There's a number of possibilities. Ross could have been trying it on with guy and the guy is a homophobe. Ross could've been making some sarcy remark to the guy in response to some criticism. Ross could've been saying he plans to leave Everton and the guy got upset.
Ciarán McGlone
59 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:15:22
Far too much speculation and barrack room lawyering going on in this thread.
Tom Dodds
60 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:17:32
I Wonder how much he was paid.

Hope Rom dosen't frequent 'those' sort of places.,. mind you, deal probably done now.

Kieran Kinsella
61 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:18:35
Ciaran

Sorry but the only way something like this is going to be resolved is in a forum like ToffeeWeb. Surely we have some lip readers among us?

Joe Clitherow
62 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:19:03
That may very well be what a defence lawyer would ask Kevin.

I'm pretty sure it would not get an acquittal.

You ARE sounding for all the world like you are trying to excuse a vicious and unprovoked (by any reasonable definition) attack Kevin. I am curious why that is (but not that curious to be honest).

Joe Clitherow
63 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:26:46
Adam

I live in Wilmslow. Plenty of people come in on the train at the weekend and I have seen the same "meatheads" you describe. Not so frequently as when I grew up in L7 admittedly but it only takes one. Which I think was John's point. This isn't a location issue, it's a sociopath issue.

Kevin Rowlands
64 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:29:40
I've said I do not condone it in anyway, Joe. I've also said the from the footage we've seen we do not know that it was completely unprovoked.

Why was Ross stroking his chin and brushing his shoulder? What did he say to him for the lad to react like he did?

There the questions a lawyer will ask. The footage does not provide evidence that it was completely unprovoked, that's all.

Terence Tyler
65 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:30:23
People who commit acts of violence like this should be brought to justice. Anybody who has any doubts about this only has to consider what happened to young Everton fan Andrew Jones, who at just 18 years of age, was punched likewise in Liverpool city centre and died as a result if that punch; it was a totally unprovoked attack.

His parents Andy and Christine are still campaigning and fighting for justice for their son. There has been several articles published about young Andrew and what happened to him, in the Liverpool Echo... Sorry, I can not do links.

The cowards who carry out this type of behaviour need bringing to justice.

Eugene Ruane
66 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:32:52
Why would he hit him for nothing?

Why indeed.

For years I went to town with 'the lads' on a Saturday night (nb: lads now so old, one dead, one using a stick to walk, one has had multiple strokes).

But back in the late 70s/early 80s we went out mob-handed (usually about 10 of us but often more) and there was nowhere that we considered off-limits (even Dutch Eddies - wooOOOOooooo!).

Off course town had it's nutters back then, but (at the risk of sounding all 'everything was better years ago') I believe there was a difference that made things safer for us.

Basically, there was no cheap 'beak' and steroids were something only used by East German weight-lifters (only drugs mentioned then was heroin which, to us, seemed a Birkenhead meff thing).

Consequently, the rage/paranoia levels in those you were rubbing shoulders with in pubs/clubs was greatly reduced.

Sure you could end up with a sore face if you didn't have the right answer to "Who the fuck are you looking at?" or "Are you looking at my tart?" but generally, there would need to be a 'reason.'

A change (imo) has come with the 'king-hit' or as it's now known is Australia, the 'cowards punch' Link

Basically it seems there are people 'out there' now who (probably as a result of something other than just bevvy) want to punch someone (anyone) just to..do it.

Just to feel what it feels like, just to swing a haymaker, connect and get the 'I just twatted someone' feeling travelling up their arm.

Pro boxers will tell you that the punch you know is coming is nowhere near as scary/damaging as the one you don't anticipate and there is something very frightening knowing there are juiced-up raging pot-herbs wandering about who will/can go from nought to BANG! for absolutely no (good) reason.

In Australia, 90 people have been killed by the coward's punch since 2000, if Ross was in training this morning, maybe he should count himself lucky.

Steve Ferns
67 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:43:46
I am a big fan of Barkley. I believe this guy should be brought to justice for clocking Barkley. It looks like Barkley was attacked in an unprovoked assault.

But I need to be consistent. I used to hammer drunken Duncan on here for stuff like this. Koeman should know what time this was, what Ross was drinking and why he was out.

Ross shouldn't be out drinking late or night or not. He's an elite athlete earning millions a year at 23. He gets paid so well to be an elite athlete. He's got the rest of his life to do this. I know 40,000 who'd swap places with him and wouldn't touch a drop of alcohol, smoke and do all the right things.

Wanna be the best you gotta make sacrifices. And he's paid millions a year to do so.

Don't tell me you're giving it everything if you're out boozing during the season. This ain't the 70s

Kieran Kinsella
68 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:45:43
It's not even just a Liverpool thing it's everywhere. My now sadly deceased mate was minding his own business in a quiet country pub in leafy Hertfordshire when some thug punched in the face purely for the fun of it.

The scumbag's Dad lawyered up so he got community service but the court established there was no motive.

Jay Harris
69 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:48:35
I heard that Ross's ex girlfriend is now going out with some gangster who is a mate of this guy.

I say gangster with no disrespect to proper gangsters unlike this coward.

As someone said earlier get bomber on the case.

Liverpool has always been tough but drugs seems to have brought about a breed of lunatic cowards.

Good on Ross for not getting involved.

Kieran Kinsella
70 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:49:31
Steve

I agree with the drinking but I suppose it depends on the club rules. I assume they frown on it but is it a job requirement they stay off the booze? The Spurs and Arsenal lads seem to be out boozing all the time. When I was at Uni in Manchester we'd see Giggsy and Lee Sharpe out.

Steve Cotton
71 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:51:56
Don't forget, Steven Gerrard was involved in a similar incident a few years back – the only major difference was that Gerrard was the perpetrator punching an unaware DJ in the face,

Similar situation, I know.

Mike Green
72 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:54:18
The only silver lining in any of this is the little twat that thought it was big and clever to put one on someone not expecting it last night, is hopefully looking over his shoulder tonight frankly shitting himself now that a couple of bellends have decided it would be a good idea to post footage of it all over the web.

Hopefully he's getting a firm knock on his door as we speak. Put it behind you, Ross, and move on.

John G Davies
73 Posted 10/04/2017 at 18:55:13
Gangster, my hoop.
Joe Clitherow
74 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:00:35
The bellend who did post it has apparently been sacked now, unsurprisingly.
Bill Gall
75 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:14:21
Steve Ferns... the young man was out having a drink after the game, nobody knows what he was drinking and there is no game on until next Saturday, plus he turned up for training the next day.

I doubt any player knowing he had to train next day is going to drink a lot of alcohol the night before, as he will be fully aware of the club's policies, and be knowledgeable enough, that no matter were he goes, that he will be recognized.

Colin Glassar
76 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:14:23
Who was he, Joe? I hope they throw the book at him.
Kev Johnson
77 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:15:55
Fucking swamp rat. I hopes he's dragged into the courts for it. Never mind he's a famous footballer could have broken the lads jaw.
Alan McGuffog
78 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:15:58
Jay I have no respect at all for any gangsters ( or even gangsta's)... be they bogus or the genuine article. All a bunch of drug dealing, money-with-menaces, thugs.
Eugene Ruane
79 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:17:52
Echo - feller who owns the gaff now cacking himself about losing his license and giving it 'never happened before, one-off, helping plod, doormen dealt with it, dead friendly place' etc blah.

By the way, 'Santa Chupitos'?

Daft names they have now, not like in my day when there were proper club names like Flintlocks, The She and Pickwicks.

What?

Colin Glassar
80 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:18:43
Steve 67, do we even know if he was drinking alcohol? For all we know he could've been having an orange juice or a Diet Coke. Not everyone drinks booze.
Kieran Kinsella
81 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:19:03
Just a thought but it could be a publicity stunt. Max Clifford Kardashian sex tape type of deal. Pay a bloke 20 quid to lamp him so he can engineer a move to Spurs or Stoke on basis of safety.
Kevin Rowlands
82 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:21:31
Jay 69, I'm a huge fan of Barkley's so it's not something personal with me. I have to disagree with your last sentence though; part of the problem here is that Barkley clearly did get involved. His hand actions on the video show that, and before I start getting screamed at, I am not saying he deserved what happened, nobody knows what was said between them.

I've been consistent in my posts, the video does not show it was a completely unprovoked attack like his lawyers are saying. Hopefully this will be a lesson learned for him and he'll avoid situations like this in the future.

Joe Clitherow
83 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:23:25
The She club.

Jesus.

Quinn's, Casablancas where you had to knock on the door and a little face plate opened to check you out before they let you in.

Plus there's another reason this would never have happened in the old days, namely it was pretty much impossible to get a drink after 10pm on a Sunday in Liverpool City Centre.

Colin Glassar
84 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:25:27
I'm surprised no one has had a go at Lukaku yet. Like, "Where was Rom when this happened? Having chocolate cake at home with his bezzie, Poghba, that's where!!".
Malcolm Dixon
85 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:25:36
Glad Ross is okay. Sad if this sort of 'attention' in his home town contributes to a decision for him to love away and play his football elsewhere.
Alan McGuffog
86 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:26:59
Decision making not his strong point really. In an ideal world he should be allowed to unwind wheresoever he chooses, in safety. Even in a dodgy bar in town. The fact is that footballers should avoid these places like the plague.
Joe Clitherow
88 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:30:42
Kev last post from me on this.

It WAS a completely unprovoked attack. Nothing like any verbals or placing a hand on someone's shoulder or chin comes in any way close to a definition of provocation for what followed. That may be intensely infuriating to some people but this does not in any way qualify as provocation. This IS absolutely crystal clear in the video.

If you don't get this then there's nothing I can say to you to explain the difference but I think this is why you may be winding some people up here.

Kieran Kinsella
89 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:31:17
Colin,

Based on the post match interview Lukaku and Ross didn't exactly seem friendly. Ross stood a good yard away with negative body language pivoted away from Lukaku.

When asked about the assist Rom half heartedly said something about Ross improving in his new position. He looked over the interviewers head to avoid eye contact as he was obviously uncomfortable with the question.

Brent Stephens
90 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:39:15
Colin "I'm surprised no one has had a go at Lukaku yet. Like, "Where was Rom when this happened?"

Colin, apparently he was in the bar at the same time and got over to Ross as fast as he could – by which time the bar had closed.

Colin Glassar
91 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:47:54
I didn't see that Kieran. They looked like two players who enjoyed the game.

Brent, I heard Rom was busy practicing trapping bags of cement.

Kevin Rowlands
92 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:48:45
I'm not winding anyone up, Joe. When I first seen the video, I thought it definitely looked like Ross was antagonizing the lad with the shoulder brushing and stroking under the chin.

It's pure speculation like nearly every post about this including mine but if you add in he was telling him he shagged his Mrs or his Ma the previous day you don't think that's going to set someone into a rage especially with drink involved?

Of course it would, again we don't know what was said and if there is any history here and if they in fact do know each other, I'm sure that it'll all come out sooner or later.

Darren Hind
93 Posted 10/04/2017 at 19:59:07
You've been watching too much Emerdale, Kevin.
Kevin Rowlands
94 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:08:47
Ha ha Darren, seriously it could have been anything insulting being said I just used that as an example. I won't be at all surprised if they know each other and there's history here,. I find it curious that according to press reports he hasn't filed a complaint with the police.
James Marshall
95 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:08:49
Unprovoked? Yes. Although you have to say it looks as though they know each other so there could well be some history.

People don't tend to go round punching people mid-conversation for absolutely no reason at all – at least not in my experience.

Personally I don't think there's ever a reason to punch someone in the face, unless you're in a licenced boxing ring, but that doesn't mean this dickhead didn't have his 'reasons' for it.

Who knows what's actually going on, or what's being said – either way it's cowardly and the kid should be held to account because it's fucking stupid, and dangerous to punch people – aside from that, the matter of why he did it, we'll probably never know...

Until Ross is about 50 and brings out a book.

Paul Tran
96 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:19:07
Young man hits young man. I've seen that headline every week in every local paper wherever I've lived.

No big deal for me, though I'm looking forward to the microscopic analysis of Koeman's body language, words, tonality and eye movement when he gets asked about this in his next presser.

Kevin Tully
97 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:27:31
Just for the benefit of people not from the City, Liverpool is widely recognised as one the safest Cities in the UK.

Link

From a personal point of view, I am in the city centre every single weekend and I cannot remember the last time I saw any trouble. From my experiences of working around the UK and abroad, the smaller places like Formby, Cheshire and Southport are far more 'moody' than Liverpool City centre, whatever a famous teacher above would like you to think. There is always trouble kicking off in small bars, all over the country.

I'm sure Ross will get over this little incident, as usual, massive over-reaction on here.

Joe Clitherow
98 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:29:49
Kev I was lucky enough to be in the audience for the live Radio 5 Fighting Talk on Saturday from Mountford Hall. They always end with a slot called 'Defend the Indefensible'. I think you'd be quite good at it!
Andy Crooks
99 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:30:33
I read a post by Eugene on another thread about footballers having loads of money but obviously still having feelings, disappointments etc. So, we have a 23-year-OLD who cannot actually go out in his own town without some toy soldier being a big man by hitting him. And, worse still, some Evertonians suggesting he might have brought it on himself.

I wonder where on earth young players must go to have some fun. Glasgow must be the absolute worst for this shit. I honestly think that it is a reason why London is so attractive to footballers. There are brain dead show offs everywhere, some of them are footballers, but I fear that Ross might see London as a bit more appealing today.

Darren Hind
100 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:36:20
London Andy ?

More people = more crackpots.

This could have happened anywhere in the UK

Andy Crooks
101 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:41:18
Paul, I just do not see it as "yYoung man hits young man".

However, so as not to come across as too pious, I have on several occasions thought of an imaginary encounter with Jimmy Case: "Middle-aged man spits in former Liverpool ace's drink while ace is at toilet. Cowardly bastard flees before former hard man returns."

Dermot Byrne
102 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:41:37
Posted earlier but now realise we are getting completely carried away. It's a moment that happens in bars every night. Hate it but don't have any more sympathy for Ross than any other innocent victim of mindless violence.

My view is try and find the guy, charge him for violence and never justify it because Ross or anyone else said something that turned this knob to violence. Never justified, football player or anyone.

Kevin Rowlands
103 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:56:35
Joe, the video clearly shows that Ross put his hands on the lad 1st, that right there is a no no and a lawyer would be all over it.

Complete strangers don't just walk up to someone and start brushing their shoulders and stroking under their chins, it doesn't happen, there is more to this story for sure.

Mark Stone
104 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:57:54
Joe (#88), a definition of provocation is 'action or speech that makes someone angry'. Barkley may very well have said something to make him angry. Or he may not.

Either way it's not justification to punch him in the face, but provocation and justification are not the same thing.

Adam Scott
105 Posted 10/04/2017 at 20:58:53
Kevin. I don't feel unsafe as such in town either. Let's not pretend though that there isn't trouble though on the basis of 'I have never seen any'.

James Marshall
106 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:11:25
A quick Google and a look at Twitter and there's plenty of comment on why this happened, and who the kid is that punched him. Photos of him on Twitter, and comments from some no-mark drug dealer that's going out with Ross's ex.

Seems the whole thing is over a girl.

Colin Glassar
107 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:11:42
Kevin, maybe he was trying to calm him down? A touch doesn't constitute a provocation, or does it? I think we need Perry Mason for this one.
James Marshall
108 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:14:32
Apparently Ross 'had it coming' according to our friend Mr D Dealer.
Christine Foster
109 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:14:48
Okay... lets stop the bus...

1. The clip is just that, a clip.. we don't see the lead up, the conversation or any previous or provocation. You CANNOT make any assumptions on the clip whatsoever other than the fact that the punch was a pre-emptive strike.

2. Such punches are dealt with in Australia as King hits, a cowards one punch unexpected attack on an unsuspecting victim. This qualifies.

3. The danger in such attacks is not the punch but the fact it takes out the victim who more often as not hits the deck back of the head first causing often lethal damage.

The perpetrator now faces a minimum 10-year sentence in Australia for this and so they should.

Kevin Rowlands
110 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:20:58
Last post on this. Nowhere have a said that the lad is innocent of a crime, doesn't deserve to be punished...

What I said was that the video does not prove what Barkley's lawyers are saying, that he was assaulted by a stranger without any provocation.

In fact, the video shows that there may have been some provocation on Barkley's part.

Andrew Grey
111 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:23:33
The video in the link that Eugene shared appears to have been edited around the 13s mark. Seems to be footage missing?
Oliver Molloy
112 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:28:45
Question for born-and-bred Liverpool ToffeeWebbers:

Is this area were this pub/club is known for trouble? Is it a rough part of the city?

James Marshall
113 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:28:50
Here's the bloke who did it - no name mentioned but it certainly looks like the guy in the video Link
Daniel Thomas
114 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:33:12
'A famous teacher' has got to be my favourite comment in this thread.
Colin Glassar
115 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:35:25
Doesn't look anything like him, James. I hope I'm never in a lineup if you're the key witness.
Dave Ganley
116 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:38:09
Oliver, no it's not a rough part of the city, some decent places around there. It's just a small bar that's a bit off the beaten track.

To be honest it doesn't matter where you go, if you're quite famous in any capacity, there's always some arse who wants to have a go.

James Marshall
117 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:38:55
It looks exactly like him – the Twitter photo is clearly an older photo but I'll be amazed if that's not the same bloke. I just watched it on slo-mo and stopped it a few times with the Twitter photo up, and I'm pretty certain it's the same guy.
Colin Glassar
118 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:39:48
Wrong place, wrong time, Oliver. It can happen anywhere.
James Marshall
119 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:44:45
Colin, are you not buying into any of the talk online about why this occurred at all? Are you suggesting it was simply 'bad luck' on Ross' part?
Oliver Molloy
120 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:44:55
Thanks Dave,

I asked after seeing the place on Sky Sports. From the outside, it looked a bit run down, not a place that I would imagine professional footballers would frequent.

Oliver Molloy
121 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:49:28
James, what us being said?

Where did this photo come from?

Colin Glassar
122 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:49:31
No idea James tbh. I've been sucker punched a few times for no reason whatsoever in pubs. In my heyday of course.
Colin Metcalfe
123 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:51:27
Oliver, I recently went for a drink on Seel Street which is close to the bar in question. It's a good area with lots of bars and restaurants although it can get a rowdy on the weekends; however, this was a Sunday night so it's pretty much chilled Sunday to Thursday. But if I was a professional footballer, I wouldn't drink in a little dive like Santa Chupitos!
James Marshall
124 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:52:22
I already posted it on this thread – there's talk of Barkley upsetting some drug dealer over a woman, and that he 'had it coming'.

Also mention of the guy in the Twitter photo as being one his 'boys' as he puts it on his Facebook page.

You don't have to dig too deep online to find all this – and people don't get sucker punched in a bar mid-conversation like that without the person doing it having a reason (as they see it).

Clearly there's no justification for it, but to say it happened out of the blue seems both far fetched and from what I've been reading, wide of the mark.

Brent Stephens
125 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:54:13
Can't believe how much people "KNOW" about what happened, how Ross might have wound him up, what Ross might have said, who's going out with who. When does the book come out? And now somebody gets "LYNCHED" on Twitter cos of course everybody knows it was him.
James Marshall
126 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:56:12
Brent, I haven't laid any claim to have any watertight info – I'm just relaying what people are saying online.

I'll be amazed if it was a punch in the face from a complete stranger. You only have to watch the video to see there's clearly some interaction going on beforehand.

David Barks
127 Posted 10/04/2017 at 21:56:14
No James, that is absolute shite. The BS you're referring to is in the Daily Mail, which says Barkley's ex-girlfriend is now dating some local gang member.

"Back in April 2014, Ross Barkley was allegedly threatened on Twitter by a convicted drug dealer and known gangster in a row over a girl.

Sam Walker sent a sinister message to a then 20-year-old Barkley saying: 'Inbox me a number for you ya little rat! You no wot this is about, so don't play stupid or your footie career will come to an end.'

The message is thought to have been sent after Barkley's ex-girlfriend started dating Walker."

Brent Stephens
129 Posted 10/04/2017 at 22:02:17
James, I wasn't having a go at you. It's just the whole online stuff etc.
Phil Bellis
130 Posted 10/04/2017 at 22:03:14
I'm in Wood St now watching Wenger's Last Stand
If you avoid Concert Square (apart from the Boston Sports Loft which is ace) it's a good area, even on weekends.
Zahir Jaffer
131 Posted 10/04/2017 at 22:04:04
Did he knock some creativity into him?

Jokes apart, he didn't press charges, he didn't press his buttons, he didn't press at all!

Hope Barks is okay though, reports said he attended training today.

Ray Robinson
132 Posted 10/04/2017 at 22:08:48
My son texted me to say that he saw Schneiderlin in Manchester today – and that he was definitely limping.

We don't want either him or Barkley missing for the run-in. I'm convinced that we'll catch Arsenal or Man Utd – or even both

John Daley
134 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:08:13
"I'll be amazed if it was a punch in the face from a complete stranger. You only have to watch the video to see there's clearly some interaction going on beforehand."

Why would it amaze you, James. He must know him because he exchanged a few words with him? Not much of a mingler when you're out and about? People speak to people they don't know and have never met before in a bar all the time. Nothing unusual or 'suspect' about it at all.

Paul Smith
135 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:13:37
The Current Bun have their take as Ross was making a play for the lad's bird.

Bullshit alert: It is the Sun though.

Steve Carse
136 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:33:20
The reason no complaint was made to police was that justice was handed out in the best way possible with the shitbag getting totally fucked over.
David Hallwood
137 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:42:45
I'm surprised that the club don't insist on players having minders when they go out. After all they need to protect a possible £40 mill asset.

We've come a long way from when Mark Ward used to play pool in the Blue House or Steve Nichol played pool for the Victoria Lodge in Birkenhead, footballers are more like pop stars, and therefore will get more abuse from Knob'eads.

Kieran Kinsella
138 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:54:16
Seems like we are constantly in the news. New stadium. Stadium flood. 99 percent agreed. Lukaku off. Koeman hates ONeill. Barkley punched in face. Does this mean the media have remembered we exist?
Mike Keating
139 Posted 10/04/2017 at 23:55:09
Eugene @ 66 & 79

Dutch Eddies, the Flintlock, Pickwicks and the She Club....

You'll tell us next you had a membership card for the Cabin Club. Have you NO shame?

Eddie Dunn
140 Posted 10/04/2017 at 00:02:36
Kevin Tully, Cheshire is much, much bigger than Liverpool city centre, or.even Liverpool for that matter! Formby and Southport, are admittedly, smaller though!
Andrew Keatley
141 Posted 10/04/2017 at 00:16:47
Joe Clitherow (88) - "A completely unprovoked attack"? You are making that assertion based on some grainy CCTV footage (without sound)? Seems like you are having a go at Kevin Rowlands for essentially keeping an open mind?

I think it's safe to say we are all on Ross Barkley's side here, but it seems to me that some people are choosing to make assumptions that do not prioritise sense over sentiment.

Dan Davies
142 Posted 11/04/2017 at 00:26:54
C'mon Steve @ 136, let's hear it!
Eugene Ruane
143 Posted 11/04/2017 at 00:41:46
Mike (#139) – 'Have you NO shame?'

Let me state categorically I NEVER had a membership for The Cabin.

I don't think of myself as sophisticated but give me a little credit please!

Besides, my mate knew the owner of Liberty's (Jimmy Smith, former chairman of South Liverpool) and he'd let us in there buckshee.

(His brother used to do Scouse Mouse in the Echo... and work the door of Liberty's.)

Dave Lynch
144 Posted 11/04/2017 at 01:14:16
I had a membership for The Norseman, how classy is that...
Dave Abrahams
145 Posted 11/04/2017 at 01:58:51
Dave (144), not as classy as The Swinging Swarez in Norton Street in between London Road and Islington, lt as known locally as The Swinging Sausage, what a gaff !!!!!!!.
Derek Knox
146 Posted 11/04/2017 at 02:04:00
Did anyone see the Granada Reports issue, concerning the alarmingly and widespread use of spice, mainly in the Manchester area?

Basically the effects of such, where, the consumers were reduced to a trance-like state, being statuesque and failing to be able to communicate to those around them!

I have my own suspicions, that our goalkeeper, Joel, (El Teflon) may have been experimenting with this substance for the last few games.

As he has displayed many, or all, of the previous symptoms!

Just a thought.

Dan Parker
147 Posted 11/04/2017 at 02:05:03
Ross is an Everton player, a home-grown lad, bags of potential, still young, still learning, human, peach of a cross on Saturday, instrumental in the result, hope he's at the club for a long time, big fan, ignore this nonsense.
Mick Davies
149 Posted 11/04/2017 at 02:09:21
Are we seeing the new Darron Gibson? There were rumours over a year ago about Ross and early hours boozing shenanigans being the reason for his loss of form. Knowing he's not the brightest of people, and having lots of wedge to burn and no 'WAG' to blow it on, I hope he's not on the Franny Jeffers road to nowhere.

These young men are obscenely paid athletes, worshipped by those earning less in a year than he earns in a week, and by being out in clubs til the early hours, he's leaving himself open to the gossip rags, who will splash any bullshit rumour all over their sordid front pages, or being damaged by some beaked up moron.

I couldn't imagine Olympic athletes clubbing it if they have a competition coming up, and with the season entering a crucial phase (especially with Arsenal dropping more points at Palace), we need all our players at the absolute peak of fitness; to me, he's letting us fans down, many of us who can't afford to go clubbing, or know our performances at work would suffer, and unlike him, we could lose our jobs.

So I have no sympathy for him – he'll have his holidays coming up in the next 6 weeks or so when he can do what he likes, but he prefers to risk getting injured out in clubs having a good time when he should be resting properly and giving his body recuperation time after running around Goodison only hours earlier...

I know I'm going to get the usual hammering for this but I remember the abuse Gibson received (rightly so) on social media for going out on the piss and not looking after himself

Derek Knox
156 Posted 11/04/2017 at 02:12:52
Dave @144

You are going back some there mate, I was ex-Navy, back in 1969 and visiting Liverpool for the first time, I somehow went there, to discover their hospitality.

That's the last I remember, woke up in Mombassa!

Only joking about the last bit, but it did bring back memories that one.

Darren Hind
158 Posted 11/04/2017 at 03:21:41
Mick Davies.

You have tried to pedal these rumours before on here about Barkley's "early hours boozing". I've only ever heard them from you.

When did it become a crime for a young guy to relax AFTER a hard game, by going out to spend time with his mates, listen to a bit of music? Maybe meet a gorgeous bird?

Trust me when I tell you, if Barkley was a pisshead, staggering around bar to bar, half of this city would know about it.

If you have ANY evidence whatsoever of these "early hours boozing shenanigans" (something a little more substantial than your own suspicions) then lets have it.

If you can't do that and you do get "the usual hammering" you will have asked for it

A complete Norris Cole of a post

William Cartwright
159 Posted 11/04/2017 at 03:30:04
First I saw of it was the BBC's report with the Highlighted footnote: "Koeman says he will be sold unless he signs his contract."

Objective neutral reporting? I think not! What exactly are the fucking BBC thinking about with that remark!

Bobby Thomas
160 Posted 11/04/2017 at 05:39:21
Andy Crooks #99

There's something in what you say. Duncan Ferguson couldn't wait to get out of Glasgow, and it must be and absolute nightmare there, but by the same token Liverpool is a bit small for some players. Quite a few live in Manchester. Lescott did when playing for us, for example. As a player you must crave anonymity due to the sheer amount of bell ends that hassle you, and in London you are much less likely to get hassled and there's just so much to do.

I cant remember where I read it but apparently Stephen Hughes (there's a blast from the past for you), the flop from Arsenal, disliked Liverpool as he found it too small and found it irritating that he couldn't go anywhere, such as out for a meal with his girlfriend, without someone bothering him and banging on about "the shite".

If I was a professional footballer I'd just swerve town entirely. But I'm 40 and would say that. If I was Barkley's age, and on the dollar he's on, I'd be on the front page of every tabloid in the country in various states of ale and MDMA induced madness. But Ross will learn its just not worth the hassle. Remember Fowler getting digged outside "The Wonder Bar" (now The Shipping Forecast I think) years ago and even then thinking "why did you even bother?!"

Eugene Ruane
162 Posted 11/04/2017 at 06:40:55
According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him.

Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.”

The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences, they began to put down their stones and depart.

Suddenly a brick did twatteth the woman in the grid and Jesus turned to see the lobber.

On seeing the culprit he shouted "Oh fuck off, Mick #149."

Danny O'Neill
165 Posted 11/04/2017 at 07:56:20
Well said, Darren Hind. Eugene; classic!!
Adam Scott
166 Posted 11/04/2017 at 08:14:01
I think Carragher's comment last night pretty much nailed it. Can't be putting himself in that situation really. Not in places like this, albeit a decent enough one. When I saw Slater Street, I thought the worst. Those two opposite Jacaranda!
Tony Abrahams
167 Posted 11/04/2017 at 08:35:29
I can actually understand what you're trying to say Mick, but he's a 23-year-old kid who has just been voted MotM and has also had an intense/frustrating 2/3 weeks, so surely he should be allowed to go and let his hair down for a bit?

Hearing the rumours, and have also been told he can be a bit of a div when bevied (who can't?) and has been given a couple of walkovers in the past, so maybe this might just help the kid to wise-up?

Don't think any charges will be pressed because this would only cause the kid more long term damage (and the shithouse never even knocked me out) so it's just got to be put down to "living in the city and part of growing up" unfortunately!

Lenny Kingman
168 Posted 11/04/2017 at 08:56:30
Nightclubs and footballers have been a double act going back as far as the game itself.

I used to spend some evenings back in very early seventies in the Babalou on Seel Street. A sometime favourite haunt of certain footballers of the day.

Two in particular who spring to mind were Red John Toshack and Blue (at that time) David Johnson who always appeared as a pair. Never saw them getting punched, rather the opposite as they were popular with the ladies and, after bopping to Ride a White Swan, it was off into the night they rode.

Dave Abrahams
169 Posted 11/04/2017 at 09:28:52
Lenny (#168), David Johnson copped for a good smack, at an Echo awards night, trying to take the piss out of a lad who was too clever and too hard for him.

The case went to court and the lad got a walkover.

Joe Clitherow
170 Posted 11/04/2017 at 09:40:13
Andrew 141

Point 1 – Err no, Kevin was making 2 + 2 = 5. I was challenging him for reading stuff into a grainy video – the exact opposite of what you said.

Point 2 – Ross's lawyers issued a statement saying there was a completely unprovoked attack. That hasn't been challenged at all.

Point 3 – What I was saying was that I saw one young man in a grainy CCTV video talking to another young man, possibly making some contact and getting close, which is often what happens in loud nightclubs. Second man then starts punching the first man in a manner. No reasonable provocation for that response, whatever alternative facts people may want to peddle here.

Tony Abrahams
171 Posted 11/04/2017 at 10:25:00
i remember one of my mates giving chicken head a smack, Dave, and the police actually came into the changing rooms to nick him because they knew he played football and it was probably the only way they were going to grab him!
Drew O'Neall
175 Posted 11/04/2017 at 11:37:18
Little maggot who wouldn't have stood a chance in a fair fight with an athlete like Barkley.

The lad can enjoy the notoriety among his maleducated ilk and reminisce on it as the highlight of his pitiful little life until he's old enough to regret it for his few remaining years of old age maturity.

Meanwhile Ross Barkley will live out his dreams in blue creating so many incredible memories that he will have forgotten about this little twerp in a couple of weeks.

Wanker.

Paul Tran
176 Posted 11/04/2017 at 11:45:41
Come on Darren, you've lost me now. What's a 'Norris Cole' of a post?

It's more fun arguing with you when I know what you're on about!

Kevin Rowlands
178 Posted 11/04/2017 at 12:16:44
Joe, please read the 1st sentence in your post #88, thankyou.
Andy Callan
179 Posted 11/04/2017 at 12:30:17
I've heard that he's a bit of a knobhead and probably deserved it...

Nobody has the foggiest idea what happened; and in fact, who the fuck cares.

Sooner he leaves and we get £60m for him, the better; and he can take the lazy sulker with him if we get £80m for him too.

Brian Williams
180 Posted 11/04/2017 at 12:55:43
Where did you hear that, Andy?
John Daley
181 Posted 11/04/2017 at 13:02:47
I would say define "a bit of a knobhead", but there's really no need: job done.

"Nobody has the foggiest idea what happened"

Do they not? I thought video evidence emerged showing an Everton player getting twatted on a night out for no obvious reason and then, the following day, an Everton fan went out of his way to post "he probably deserved it".

What more is there to know and why the seemingly deep-seated need for some to dissect a fart and delve into concocted 'motive', 'reason', 'provocation', and 'I heard Ross is a right cock' justification for a jelly head nobody on here should give two shits about (unless they actually know the guy) sneakily cracking him in the jaw?

Colin Hughes
183 Posted 11/04/2017 at 13:09:43
The Sun today though "a Liverpool fans site posted, Leicester weren't the only ones to get battered today"

What relevance was that to the incident? Fucking irresponsible newspapers virtually condoning violence by making fun of it.

Seamus McCrudden
184 Posted 11/04/2017 at 13:11:25
I think what Carra said last night was spot on. Don't put yourself in that position in the first place. A sly punch like that could have not only ended his career but his life. Not worth it.
John Wilson
187 Posted 11/04/2017 at 13:57:28
Joe Clitheroe at 30, this is called speculation.

Brian Williams at 32, again speculation.

Stay to the facts, ie not making personal references to the person who makes a response, ie 'are you for real you're naïve'...'led a sheltered life, et al. These are emotional responses and or ad hominem (personal), or putting it another way a distraction from the point being made.

Adam Scott (the teacher) at 17: Ross has the right to go out to celebrate his win, or at the weekend, however it's likely he will encounter trouble. Ross, has a duty of a professional in his position so you're quite correct insofar as Ross has a special duty of care than other less high profile persons who are not celebrities. He (as a celebrity footballer) ought to know not lay his hands on any person – especially where he (Ross) and the other lad were at the least likely to be drinking or drunk (to an extent). The other lad may or may not have been taking drugs but alcohol would have been sufficient to cause the same response. In short, Ross should have walked away where they were both either influenced or potentially affected by drink.

It's like this if Ross would have hit him back, Ross would probably have got sued – as a millionaire is worth suing.

Other assumptions were made by persons on this forum that the lad who punched Barclay may have been on drugs. Only the facts can determine that.

Ross should not have touched the lad; he should not have put his hands on the lad's person, ie, shoulders or anywhere else. This could be a provocation defence for the lad if the prosecution were to bring charges. I doubt they would owing to Ross touching him first and it does not seem that CCTV evidence will stand up in court by itself, so it will be Ross's word against the lad's.

The lad could sue Ross for assault as the lad laid hands on him first.

Colin Glassar
188 Posted 11/04/2017 at 14:08:51
This thread has become slightly absurd now. Loads of speculation and unfounded claims. Let the coppers sort it out before we pre-judge ok.

John, you were doing great until you said Ross could get done for assault "as the lad laid hands on him first". If that's assault then what Duncan did to the burgler could be considered mass murder.

Matthew Williams
189 Posted 11/04/2017 at 14:12:24
Only tourists drink in Town; real Scouser's avoid it, too many knobheads about these days & the boozer' charge London prices too.

Hope they catch the little prick like, Tony Bellew could use a new punch bag!

John Daley
190 Posted 11/04/2017 at 14:25:01
"Ross should not have touched the lad; he should not have put his hands on the lad's person, ie shoulders or anywhere else. This could be a provocation defence for the lad if the prosecution were to bring charges."

No it couldn't.

Brian Williams
193 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:09:31
John Wilson (#187).

Not speculation at all, John. National crime figures back up the statement I made. Every weekend in lots of cities around the UK there are unprovoked attacks on individuals.

Charles Barrow
194 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:29:25
John Wilson (#187) – I assume you're not a lawyer! I don't think what Ross did could be deemed to be 'provocation'. But there probably is a story to the reason for the attack – I'm sure there will be plenty on the web over next few days.
John Wilson
195 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:41:03
Assault for criminal law is different to assault in tort law (suing people etc).

Criminal law

Criminal: Assault and battery:

Assault happens before battery. Assault does not require someone to be touched/ in contact, even behaving in a threatening manner could amount to assault. Battery is where the assault leads to a following contact: a punch for instance, which leaves a bruise or actual bodily harm, or grievous bodily harm (broken jaw/ other). This is why it is called assault and battery.

Other types of Criminal assault

If you lay your hands on a woman it could be assault in criminal law if it is likely the woman would not have permitted it, or there was no express permission, for the laying of hand(s) on her person. If you touch a woman, even on her leg, this could be a sexual offence in some circumstances.

Tort law

Acting in said threatening manner could amount to assault and cause a person to be sued as the person owes others a duty of care (legal responsibility). It will be difficult to win the case unless there were good evidence, ie, reliable witnesses.

I studied law a while ago now but no, not a lawyer per se.

Barry Rathbone
196 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:59:56
Ross Barkley must have been off his skull not to realise "scrapper" was tight as a drum... and that "chin up lad" touch, wtf???

John Wilson
197 Posted 11/04/2017 at 15:59:58
Charles, at immediate above.

It is not what happened but whether those facts can be exaggerated. The only material evidence, apparently, is grainy, and, by all accounts, black and white images.

What was certain though, Ross had his hands on the lad's shoulders (which is still contact where there should be none). The lad, his lawyer could argue, whispered something in his ear – or had spoken so quietly to provoke him. There was obviously something said, again according to the comments on this forum. Was the environment unusually loud where no-one else could hear what was said to the lad?

Alternatively, the witnesses in the place viewed the physical contact by Ross but may not have been close enough to dispute the lad's lawyer's claims. I am not saying this would happen... but it could happen.

John G Davies
198 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:16:05
John Wilson (#195),

"I studied law a while ago now but no, not a lawyer per se".

I study the horses on a regular basis but I am a twat of a gambler per se.

Come on, mate, pack it in. It's almost as if you want Ross charged.

Dermot Byrne
199 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:16:35
Colin (#188) bang on.

Wonder if there's a movie in this? Perhaps change law after Brexit – The Drunk Knobhead Act? Maybe the Protection of Our Midfielders Act.

Let it go. Bet Ross has.

Stef Busby
200 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:19:22
John Wilson – Clueless.

"The lad could sue Ross for assault as the lad laid hands on him first."

Belter this!!

Tony Abrahams
201 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:30:56
Are you being serious Dermot? A punch to the side of the face is nothing to the ridiculing he his now getting on one of those funny videos doing the rounds. It's gone, but it won't be forgotten for a while, I'm sure!

Much prefer the picture of Koeman and Jagielka going to see Seamus Coleman, that John G, has posted. Although he probably doesn't feel like it now, Barkley was very lucky, whereas our inspirational "Captain of Ireland" was the complete opposite.

I genuinely hope he can make a complete recovery and hopefully lead his country out in Russia 2018!

John Daley
202 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:38:11
John (not a lawyer per se),

Thanks for the refresher, but why are you claiming Ross momentarily placing a hand on a shoulder "could be a provocation defence for the lad if the prosecution were to bring charges."?

The defence of 'provocation' was done away with under the Coroners and Justice Act (to be replaced by 'loss of control') and it was only ever a partial defence to a charge of murder (invoked in order to reduce said charge to manslaughter) anyway. Sure, it might be taken into account in other instances, but merely as mitigation at sentencing.

Brent Stephens
203 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:39:05
John #197 " The lad, his lawyer could argue, whispered something in his ear".

I doubt his lawyer could argue with much conviction about Ross whispering in the guy's ear. What does that prove? If whispered, who heard it?

"or had spoken so quietly to provoke him"...

...'You're not talking loudly enough, Ross. We're in a club. You gotta shout.". Biff.

Mick Davies
204 Posted 11/04/2017 at 16:45:21
Darren @ 158,

I don't make stories up: I actually heard this a long time ago, and asked on here if anyone had heard any rumours, but no one replied.

I am a fan of Ross (when he's trying and playing to his potential) and I'm the last person who'd wish any harm on the lad, but when he's going out only hours after a game (and putting himself in the firing line from red top rag reporters, jealous boyfriends, juiced up kopites etc), instead of relaxing and allowing his body to recuperate.

I can't be bothered checking back through TW but were you one of those who (rightly) rebuked Gibson for his twilight activities? If so, can't you see that Ross should be showing more maturity for a man of 23 who's been in the national spotlight for 4 or 5 years now, and learning lessons from previous local footballers like Gerrard, Jeffers, Fowler, Barton & Co??

Paul Burns
209 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:04:32
People are killed regularly by cowardly, sneaky punches.
This is not a trivial issue.

The thug needs locking up so he can't do it to anyone else.

John G Davies
210 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:26:19
Paul Tran, Re Norris Cole... You got me curious so I Googled.

Two answers came up. An American Basketball player and a character from Coronation St. Can't help you with which one the reference was to. 👍

Paul Tran
211 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:40:52
Cheers John. Knowing Darren, it'll be the Corrie reference, but I can't crack Darren's rhyming slang!
Ciarán McGlone
212 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:46:06
Jaysus, this thread needs killed stone dead. I'm not sure what's worse, the idle speculation or the half-baked legal expertise. Please stop.
John Daley
213 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:46:20
'Own goal' or 'arsehole'.
Martin Nicholls
214 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:51:29
Paul (#211) – I didn't think it was rhyming slang myself, more a reference to the character spreading baseless gossip!!
Martin Nicholls
215 Posted 11/04/2017 at 19:53:36
Ciaràn - agreed! But can't stop myself following all TW threads!
Dortmund game postponed until tomorrow
John G Davies
216 Posted 11/04/2017 at 20:44:45
Martin 215,

I'll bet you an Ayrton Senna it's rhyming slang.

Stan Schofield
217 Posted 11/04/2017 at 20:50:49
Ciaran@212: I know a bit about the law, that some defendants don't give a shit, having utter contempt for a Court. Case in point:

Judge: What do you have to say for yourself before I pass sentence?

Defendant: Fuck all!

Judge (shocked, and turning to the Clerk of Court): What did the defendant say?!

Clerk of Court: "Fuck all", your worship.

Judge: How very odd, I could have sworn he said something!

As they say on TW, I'll go and get my coat.

Dave Abrahams
218 Posted 11/04/2017 at 21:05:02
John G (#217). I'll take that fiver bet!!!!!
John G Davies
219 Posted 11/04/2017 at 21:40:25
You're on, Dave.
Martin Nicholls
220 Posted 11/04/2017 at 21:43:01
John (#217) – why bring F1 into it? :-)
John G Davies
221 Posted 11/04/2017 at 21:49:26
Apologies Martin.

Just acting the James Hunt....

Steve Ferns
222 Posted 11/04/2017 at 22:32:30
John Wilson, your legal knowledge isn't up to standard I'm afraid. And whoever said provocation is a defence to assault, I'm afraid not.

The Defence Solicitor might make points in mitigation about provocation (which is how the offender sees it, not the victim) but this only means the sentence could be reduced, and usually only slightly.

He would only have a defence if he was to say that he got in a pre-emptive strike in self defence, but there's nothing on the CCTV to support that, and the second and third punches he at least tried to get off, contradicts that.

Paul Hewitt
223 Posted 11/04/2017 at 22:58:27
Who hasn't been knocked out in a night club?
Mike Green
224 Posted 11/04/2017 at 23:49:41
I haven't Paul. But I have been knocked out outside a Rat and Parrott. Does that count...?
John G Davies
225 Posted 12/04/2017 at 15:22:50
Better off putting this one to bed. Ross has made a bloomer, received the inevitable and hopefully learns a lesson from it.

For those questioning the punch, The Marquis died over 100 years ago.

John Wilson
226 Posted 12/04/2017 at 15:57:43
Steve Ferns

Grammar... 'If I 'were' ... not, 'If I was'. 'If' means hypothetical. Provocation was a defence up to recently. However, the modern law is mainly statute whereas case law practice would be more relevant, notwithstanding Parliament's statutory intent (statutory interpretation).

It would also likely be the counsel for the defence, not 'defence solicitor'. So, you say, "which is how the offender sees it, not the victim." No shit, Sherlock! I presumed that it would be the victim who decides whether there was provocation. Of course not, as it would defy the accused's constitutional right which is based on the moral and legal dimension of the rule of law, notwithstanding the constitutional statutes and its emanating constitutional case law, in addition to ordinary statute and ordinary emanating case law.

Now, mitigation is rather different to substantive defences. If there were provocation it may no longer be a statutory defence but it will still be a part defence, reliant on earlier precedents will R v Bird [1985] 1 WLR 816.

On the contrary, the defence could be available where he acts to protect himself or others (at common law). There would not need to be a pre-emptive strike to avail a relevant defence as this would mean that the other person's jaw could be broken if he were to wait upon the pre-emptive strike, before he could defend himself. Stop talking shit.

Jay Griffiths
227 Posted 12/04/2017 at 19:22:34
(#226) now if only Ross had put the same effort into his defence that night!
All told, it will be a severe life lesson for the kid.

Things will probably balance out down the line.

Andy Crooks
228 Posted 12/04/2017 at 19:26:18
The quote of the year: "I am not a lawyer per se"... I just love it. Any comments on team selection should be framed in the same terms with 'coach' replacing 'lawyer'.
Ciarán McGlone
229 Posted 12/04/2017 at 19:37:43
"Of course not, as it would defy the accused's constitutional right which is based on the moral and legal dimension of the rule of law, notwithstanding the constitutional statutes and its emanating constitutional case law, in addition to ordinary statute and ordinary emanating case law."

I take it back.. let the thread roll on. The quality of frontier gibberish on show above is top notch. Highly entertaining.

Andy Crooks
230 Posted 12/04/2017 at 19:41:54
Ciaran, get some popcorn, relax and enjoy. This thread is a belter.
Chris Gould
231 Posted 12/04/2017 at 20:15:32
John Wilson, you have misunderstood what a pre-emptive strike is.

You don't wait for a pre-emptive strike before you defend yourself. You throw a pre-emptive strike when you feel threatened, and before the aggressor assaults you. Steve was stating that this would not be a defence in this situation as Ross was not acting in a threatening manner, and at no point would the other guy have felt that he was about to be attacked.

If a guy approaches you in an aggressive manner with his fists clenched, then you would be able to strike him first as an act of self-defence. You argue that the pre-emptive strike was necessary to eliminate the threat of immediate assault. That is a recognised and acceptable defence for chinning someone, but would not be a defence for the defendant in Barkley's case.

Stan Schofield
232 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:07:44
I don't know much about law, but presumably if the case goes to Court it will be handled not by solicitors (who come under the Law Society), but by barristers (who come under the Bar Council), because of where the incident took place.
Dave Abrahams
233 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:08:12
Chris (#231),

I think what you are saying is, you get your retaliation in first before you take a smack.

Brian Williams
234 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:08:47
Stan (#232),

Get yer coat!

Brian Williams
235 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:10:36
Chris (#231),

It worked okay for "Stevie G La".

Stan Schofield
236 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:26:39
Brian, I got thrown out before I had a chance to get my coat!
Brent Stephens
237 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:29:11
Stan, especially if it were at the Old Baileys.
Stan Schofield
238 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:36:03
Brent, I'd been on the old Bailey's prior to posting. I tell a lie, can't stand Bailey's, more likely Old Peculiar.
Brent Stephens
239 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:42:32
Always knew you were old, never sure about the other bit.
Darren Hind
240 Posted 12/04/2017 at 21:56:32
Mick Davies.

Okay, mate, I can accept you are not making stories up, but on another thread you are recycling 40-year-old rumours about former players.

This judgemental "no smoke without fire" shite drives me fucking nuts.

Evidence, Mick... Put up or shut up,

Darren Hind
241 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:15:58
I sometimes wonder if we will ever get back to where we belong.

Gylfi fucking Sigurdsson? Are you sure???

The guy couldn't hack it at Spurs, we really do need to ditch this small-time thinking.

A slightly bigger fish in an exceptionally small pond is not what we need right now.

Quality... Top quality... Nothing else will do.

Please stop this foolishness.

Phil Bellis
242 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:17:18
I've just had a ginger queer in the Jacaranda, went for a Geoff Hurst and, on exiting, passed 2 lads on Slater Street singing our 60 grand Seamus song... "Good on yer," thought I, til I heard the last line... "and we hope you never play again."
Naturally, my defence at court will be they provoked me, deserved it and are twats who probably don't even know where Anfield is, when my collar gets felt. Anyone know if Rex Makin is still practising?
Darren Hind
243 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:20:49
Sexy Rexy, Phil?

Now there's a film/play waiting to be made.

Steve Ferns
244 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:28:02
John Wilson, I am not talking shit. Your A-level law is incorrect and the case you named relates to a case of assault where the girl in question successfully argued self-defence.

Provocation is not, and has not been a defence to assault. Provocation could be a defence to murder due to the strict test for intent. But this is a matter of either s4 threatening behaviour or common assault, at worst, and provocation is not a defence to them. They are also summary only offences and will be dealt with by Solicitors.

John Daley
245 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:46:46
"Provocation was a defence up to recently"

A distinct defence to what, John? (I'm seriously starting to doubt it was the Shining that drove Danny to daub all over that fucking door now):

Link


" If there were provocation it may no longer be a statutory defence but it will still be a part defence, reliant on earlier precedents will R v Bird [1985] 1 WLR 816. On the contrary, the defence could be available where he acts to protect himself or others (at common law)."

I shall name you...err... 'self-defence'.

---------------------

INT: THE OVERLOOK HOTEL KITCHEN

Dick Hallorann: I can remember when I was a little boy. My grandmother and I could hold conversations entirely without ever opening our mouths. She called it "blagging". And for a long time, I thought it was just the two of us that had the 'blag' to us. Just like you probably thought you was the only one. But there are other folks, though mostly they don't know it, or don't believe it. How long have you been able to do it? Why don't you want to talk about it?

Danny Torrance: I'm not supposed to.

Dick Hallorann: Who said you ain't supposed to?

Danny Torrance: J-Willy

Dick Hallorann: Who's 'J-Willy'?

Danny Torrance: J-Willy is the bloke that lives in my mouth.

Dick Hallorann: Is J-Willy the one who gives you legal advice?

Danny Torrance: Yes, but he's not a lawyer 'per se'. 

Dick Hallorann: How does he tell you things?

Danny Torrance: Incorrectly/incoherently usually. It's like I go to sleep, and he shows me things, but when I wake up, I can't remember everything. Which is weird, because he was well into his law books at one time.

Phil Bellis
246 Posted 12/04/2017 at 22:59:59
I shan't sleep well tonight... Seriously weird TW thread... but tomorrow is another day
Stan Schofield
247 Posted 12/04/2017 at 23:17:22
I wonder if lawyers argue with themselves for practice. I want the truth! I can't handle the truth! Did I order a Code Red'? I'm damned right I did!
Brian Williams
248 Posted 12/04/2017 at 23:21:43
Phil (#242).
That would be 60 grand, Phil.
Phil Bellis
249 Posted 13/04/2017 at 00:15:38
Of course, Brian, no discount intended... hard to type on a bloody phone with a swollen hand!

Banter aside... what kind of low-life are such people? I was shocked; glad I was young when I was.

Brian Williams
250 Posted 13/04/2017 at 00:21:42
Phil (#249),

You and me both. The level of viciousness and lack of respect for just about everything is frightening!

Dan Davies
251 Posted 13/04/2017 at 01:12:34
My advice to Ross, bearing in mind it probably means SFA would be take your lumps and learn from what's gone on. Keep your chin up (or maybe he should have tucked it in!) Move on.

Best thing to do is score the winner next game and do a Cahill type celebration, brush it off. Happy days. Onwards and upwards. Lives and learns.

Alexander Murphy
252 Posted 13/04/2017 at 04:26:53
The Law, is the Law. Does Ross Barkley appear to threaten or provoke his assailant? Not to me he bloody well doesn't. Should other facts come to light, then matters will need to be evaluated.

The accused is guilty of ABH. How Ross Barkley passes the ball to team mates is as relevant to this issue as whether aliens made funny patterns in Nazca.

One of our lads got punched. Not smacked a DJ. Would some here feel different if Tom Davies got walloped ?

Eric Myles
253 Posted 13/04/2017 at 04:39:29
Phil (#242),

I think Rex senior died some years back but his lad took over the business.

Stan Schofield
254 Posted 13/04/2017 at 10:57:01
Alexander@252: Nice one. Erik von Daniken, Chariots of the Gods, and Return to the Stars. Read them as a teenager. Useful lesson in how convincing bullshit can be unless you know a subject in detail.
John Wilson
255 Posted 13/04/2017 at 12:36:31
Steve Ferns at #244. On the contrary, it was LLB (law degree level) law. A-level law is level 3 law, whereas law degree level law is level 6.

The ratio decidendi (ie the ratio principle) is what is relevant in binding precedent: 'point of law', and not the facts: 'Finding of Fact, which brings me to the law. Lord Lane C.J. (Lord Chief Justice) in R v Bird [1985] EWCA Crim 2 ('Bird') was discussing a 'reasonable force' defence, where he stated that a person does not have to run away from a fight but must demonstrate that he/ she does not have an inclination to fight in the first instance: Lord Lane in Bird. This Court of Appeal judge is saying if one were being provoked to fight at first instance but he/ she indicates there was no intention (mens rea) to fight - albeit a risk of it leading to a fight - then the person has the right to fend off any threat using 'reasonable force:' Bird [1985, CA].

Applying law to facts

It is the point of law which is material, not the point of fact but we shall move forward on facts. Steven says this: "Provocation is not, and has not been a defence to assault. Provocation could be a defence to murder due to the strict test for intent." This is erroneous understanding of the law. Provocation as a specific defence and provocation - an inference on the facts - are two independent concepts, one being argued to be a point of law and the other said to be a point of fact.

Steven's English was not clear as to what he meant by pre-emptive strike. Another respondent suggests that Steven meant a pre-emptive strike would stand if there were an aggressor. This wrong as the law states that the would be defender must show his inclination to avoid a fight at first instance so if he were to use a pre-emptive form of defence without demonstrating first a clear indication of his avoidance to fight, any 'reasonable force' defence would fail.

Murder; serious assault. It is not known the amount of reasonable forces which is necessary until the defender his or her self has an opportunity to weigh the level of threat posed, which may not be rigid as the level of threat can change in real time. It is also very difficult to weight up real time events. There is also perception as it may appear to the defender that there is a real threat when there was none. For this reason normally a defence may not have to be reasonable in the court's eyes but merely his own - as only he is qualified to know what is going on before him.

In any event, it does not matter if it were a man, a woman, a boy, or a girl. It neither matters whether it was summary, an either way offence, or an indictable offence. Note you also did not cite the case appropriately, ie you did not use the neutral citation but merely used a reported citation (WLR..LR stand for Law Report as a clue). It shows you really have no clue about law except what is regurgitated to you.

Did I say there was a specific offence called 'provocation?' Before any further comment I'll delay any response on this point. Hmm, didn't I mention the civil and criminal assault, and now you have the audacity to regurgitate back to me? Before I comment further on this point I'll also delay the answer.

On broad point of law, there is no such thing as being 'guilty by association.' So if there were a gang and you were there - this is called circumstantial. Ergo, it does not automatically mean presence alone equates to the same level of criminal liability, which would normally require proof of the actual offence (actus reus) intention (mens rea), and causation. A-level law indeed, you cheeky sod.

Chris Gould
256 Posted 13/04/2017 at 15:00:50
John, this is getting a little cringeworthy.

On the subject of 'Pre-emptive Strikes'.

Steve's explanation was clear to anyone who knew what one actually was.
You have obviously since gone and looked it up.

If an attack is imminent or immediate then you can use a pre-emptive strike for the purpose of defence. You only need to demonstrate an 'unwillingness to fight' if the situation allows the opportunity. If someone comes at you aggressively and the opportunity to move to a place of safety doesn't present itself, then you don't need to show any 'unwillingness to fight'.

For what it's worth, simply stepping back and raising your hands to signal non-aggression complies with the law completely. So if the aggressor doesn't back down, you can then step forward and bang him out.

If you are in a tight spot, such as a busy bar, then you wouldn't necessarily be able to avoid the confrontation and could therefore throw a pre-emptive strike without showing any kind of avoidance or 'unwillingness to fight'.

Ken Williams
257 Posted 13/04/2017 at 16:23:48
From what I hear, Ross refused to give up his seat for one of the bar staff who was due on shift so security was called and Ross was removed from his seat. The security team were trained by the Company that United Airlines used. The club manager stated that the comfort of his staff must take priority over the paying customer.
John Wilson
258 Posted 13/04/2017 at 21:27:17
Chris, perhaps you're a bit dyslexic and or just can't read. The law is the law. You said, 'I went and looked it up.' Do you realise to study law at level 6, one has to research law using Lexis and Westlaw professional databases, which entails to accessing statutory and case law notwithstanding explaining it and then applying to the facts, as I did above.

I know what a pre-emptive strike is; I am just not particularly au fait with interpreting pigeon English. I did not know what Steven meant as his sentence structure was not exactly commensurate with the thing he endeavoured to convey.

Am guessing my vocabulary is a tad higher than the average graduate – never mind the average lay person's on here.

Brent Stephens
259 Posted 13/04/2017 at 21:38:29
"I am guessing my vocabulary is a tad higher than the average graduate never mind the average lay person's on here".

"...which entails to accessing statutory and case law".

Entails to? Entails to? I've never seen a literate person write that before.

John Wilson
260 Posted 13/04/2017 at 21:45:52
Brent - with the pathetic name - the to was obviously a typo.
Brent Stephens
261 Posted 13/04/2017 at 21:48:49
"Brent - with the pathetic name - the to was obviously a typo".

What's pathetic about my name, John?

Mike Green
262 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:00:38
Must be another typo Brent.

Huge vocabulary. Just keeps putting the wrong words in the wrong places that's all. An "I" before "am" would be a good start too but hey, babyspeak's fine with me, who am I to judge?

Brent Stephens
263 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:04:09
I see your point, Mike. I wonder if I'll get a pseudo-legal response.
Mike Green
264 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:11:22
Bloody hell, Brent, hang on while I get a dictionary..."pseudo" ..! Whoa boy!
Ciarán McGlone
265 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:12:04
This is like being taught French by Joey Tribbiani...
Ray Roche
266 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:18:10
John Wilson (#258),

Your vocabulary may be "a tad higher than the average graduate never mind the average lay person's on here." but I think you'll find it's "Pidgin English" as opposed to Pigeon English. Not THAT clever, eh?

Jay Griffiths
267 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:27:21
How to alienate 99.9% of the ToffeeWeb population. Let's not elevate things in a desperate desire to prove one's intellect.

After all, I know for a fact that my dad's bigger than your dad.

Dean Adams
268 Posted 13/04/2017 at 22:40:41
I thought I saw the word 'entrails' a few posts back. Damn, mighty strange goings on around these parts!! But no, just seeing things!!
Dave Abrahams
270 Posted 14/04/2017 at 09:29:30
Mike (264) pseudo means pretends. Even though I know you knew that.
Dave Abrahams
271 Posted 14/04/2017 at 09:34:05
Eric (#253), did Rex Makin die or has he just retired from the legal practice? Or maybe he just changed his name to... erm, John Wilson.
Peter Carpenter
272 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:01:24
271 posts about a scuffle in a bar?
Peter Carpenter
273 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:02:02
272...
Colin Glassar
274 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:08:37
I didn't know we had so many bar-room lawyers, Peter. I gave up after the 50th post.
Peter Carpenter
275 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:10:11
I just hope Ross doesn't get a parking ticket or this site will explode.
Eugene Ruane
276 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:18:42
Peter (#272), it wasn't a 'scuffle in a bar' (clue, there was no scuffling); it was an Everton player being punched hard, for reasons that not one of the 272 (273) posts have been able to shine any light on (rumour, yes; gossip, yes; light... no).

Dave (#271), soft ollies doesn't think he's Rex Makin, he thinks he's Clarence Darrow.

John G Davies
278 Posted 14/04/2017 at 10:26:22
I agree; unless you heard the conversation, nobody knows. Barkley will say one thing; the young lad will say another.

Also a lot of rumour, speculation and plain old shit-stirring that the kid is... Scumbag... Wannabe gangster etc etc.

Complete opposite. A working lad just out with his girl having a drink.

John Wilson
279 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:04:22
Brent at 259 said: "I've never seen a literate person write that before." The allusion is therefore an ad hominem.

There is no need to play the 'clique' game either, Mike Green at 262.

"Just keeps putting the wrong words in the wrong places that's all." He does not put his words in the correct place, is better English. It...must be another typo Brent.

Ciaràn McClone, hush. Well, you were being a clone – not being able to think for yourself. Get off that proverbial bandwagon or may hurt yourself.

Ray Roche at 266. "but I think you'll find it's "Pidgin English" as opposed to Pigeon English. "Not THAT clever, eh?" You should not start your sentence with a conjunction. It is additionally inappropriate use of grammar where there are omissions of subject, verb, object content. '..I think you'll find that it's Pidgin English. In any event, here is the context: "1876, from pigeon English (1859), the reduced form of language."

I think the persons herein who contribute to the dialogue on this forum really ought to monitor their own grammatical performances prior to any third party critical analysis, especially where the grammar is in absentia in itself.

Ray Roche
280 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:23:59
John Wilson.

"The history of pidgin begins in the early 19th century in the South China city of Guangzhou. Chinese merchants interacting with English speakers on the docks in this port adopted and modified the word business in a way that, by century's end, had become pidgin. The word itself then became the descriptor of the unique communication used by people who speak different languages. Pidgins generally consist of small vocabularies (Chinese Pidgin English has only 700 words), but some have grown to become a group's native language. Examples include Sea Island Creole (spoken in South Carolina's Sea Islands), Haitian Creole, and Louisiana Creole. The word pidgin also gave us one particular meaning of pigeon — the one defined as "an object of special concern" or "accepted business or interest," as in "Tennis is not my pigeon."

Have you always been so far up yourself? You're wasted on this site. You should be on a site only you can access. Then you can tug yourself brainless at your own perfection.

I take it your Dad was a toolmaker

Chris Williams
281 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:37:12
Ray,

Please mate don't encourage him.

Ray Roche
282 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:39:05
Sorry Chris.
Chris Gould
283 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:53:00
John, you asked if I'm dyslexic because you misunderstood Steve? That makes perfect sense.

You really have made a fool out of yourself here. In trying to sound so clever, you've come across as a total plonker.

Brent Stephens
284 Posted 14/04/2017 at 18:53:14
#279 "...or may hurt yourself".

As M'Lud says, "It is additionally inappropriate use of grammar where there are omissions of subject, verb, object content".

You're benched, M'Lud.

Jay Griffiths
285 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:00:53
Now it's 99.99999999%. John it's Toffeweb – not Thermopylae. Stop making such a futile stand. You're probably a decent chap who happens to have a slight narcissistic side. Let it slide, mate.
Dermot Byrne
286 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:07:52
Thermopylae.

Jay, please remind me what the significance of that place was. I know I came across it at school but age has erased it. Greek wars. Athens V someone. Damn it's gone. Help, Jay...

Jay Griffiths
287 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:27:00
Dermot, there's one on the hook already. I'm going to swim on. Was the bait even used or did he jump on dry?
Mike Dolan
288 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:29:35
You've got to find some classier places to hang, Ross. Remember the expression "If you hang with the dogs, don't be surprised if get fleas."

In the meantime... get on with it. Sign the damned contract and forget about the shitheads.

John Wilson
289 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:32:29
Made a fool of myself here, you say? I am guessing the average IQ on here is below 100. Foolish would therefore be relative.
Jay Griffiths
290 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:34:06
Dry it is then.
John Wilson
291 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:41:02
Oh, I am not entirely serious, it's just quite entertaining and different from the usual football commentary.

I'm not at all narcissistic; I merely presented an idea about Ross to make people look at the other side but it was not meant to be literal. Ross actually seems a nice fella. It is quite amusing though where people are wound up so easily. It is only chat on a screen.

Graham Mockford
292 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:46:22
John Wilson

Something is giving me this vibe

Link

John Wilson
293 Posted 14/04/2017 at 19:57:56
I don't even believe in IQs as an indicator of a person's ability. So, I wouldn't remotely care what people's IQ scores were. It is just a distraction and nothing else.
Ciarán McGlone
294 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:03:25
McClone... Haha...

I laughed so much I almost gave up my practising cert.

John Daley
295 Posted 14/04/2017 at 20:55:13
This thread is utterly fantastic. For pure cringe content, it can't get much better.

"Am guessing my vocabulary is a tad higher than the average graduate never mind the average lay person's on here."

I've just had to do the Buffalo Bill dance from Silence Of The Lambs to stop a little bit of pish leaking out there. 

Link

Still, I suppose you've at least succeeded in reminding people why it was so easy for anyone even the slightest bit streetwise to get laid on the LPC, when surrounded by a squad of tits so erroneously self-inflated that the only reason they packed umbrellas was probably to prevent Peter Andre popping off all over them.

Not that I don't get any now that I'm married (to a practising barrister: she 'levelled up', John). As Leon put it in 'Curb Your Enthusiasm' (CYE s5 Ep2) : "I gets mine, Larry. I brings the ruckus to the ladies"...err...ok, one lady.

J-Willy: 

Shouting about 'bringing the ruckus to the ladies' could be interpreted as a threatening, abusive and innately insulting representation and, if repeated, could render one prone to a possible public order offence. You primary school simpletons have probably never even heard of the POA though.

Pathetically named lay person:

POA? Planet Of The Apes? All I remember from that film is the big fuck off stone statue of some legal monkey holding a (level 6?) scroll. The Law-Giver! What was the name of that bloke who played him in Battle For The Planet Of The Apes again? John something? John.... John...

J-Willy:

Alright, I might not be Perry Mason per se, but there's no need to take the piss!

Graham Mockford
296 Posted 14/04/2017 at 21:02:03
John Daley

That's a hall of fame post right there.

John Wilson
297 Posted 15/04/2017 at 10:38:49
Okay, what I said previously – the aforesaid – was merely for amusement's sake, but it seems the mouths on sticks in Toffee-Web land either cannot or will not let it rest.

By the way, a barrister is in practice not practise unless he or she were still not very good at what they do. Practise is defined as: "perform (an activity) or exercise (a skill) repeatedly or regularly in order to acquire, improve or maintain proficiency in it." Practice and practise are therefore entirely different.

I don't know what it is with persons who seem to have an enormous chip on their shoulder. It's as though one cannot say something on ToffeeWeb where the 'clique' congregate its forum, pissing to mark out their territory.

When persons allude or expressly state that he or she has studied law, why is there this foreseeable but, of course, largely unjustifiable over reaction? Are people really so superficial that the veneer of their person is so easily shattered, or causing them such personal offence or so affected which leads to a disproportionate over reaction? It is only law for heaven's sake.

'My wife is a barrister in practice.' I mean, who gives a shit ? – she may be a barrister but you're clearly not. This is like me saying I can't fight but my dad can.

Ray Roche
298 Posted 15/04/2017 at 10:58:18
"The mouths on sticks in Toffeeeb land either cannot or will not let it rest."

Maybe they just like winding you in...

Were you ever a contributor for "Pseuds' Corner" in Private Eye? I used to enjoy that as well. ;-)

John Wilson
299 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:09:41
No, I suspect it's their middle class/ bourgeois sensitive personalities. 'My wife's a barrister,' is as bourgeois as it gets.

I don't think the bourgeois are equipped to have any humour, are predictably so easily offended and instead are likely to behave like spoilt little school children.

Brexit was an obvious example of this but the bourgeois were so out of touch that they could not possibly fathom why the average Joe Blogs would want out of what likely felt like an elite club. I studied EU law – it benefits business and not the average 'working class' communities.

John Daley
300 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:39:31
"By the way, a barrister is in practice not practise unless he or she were still not very good at what they do"

Are you seriously so ill informed that you don't even know a barrister is required to possess an annual Practising Certificate, which they can renew online via an Authorisation to Practise and are required to pay a Practising Certificate Fee?

I mentioned my 'very good at what she does' wife (in the words of your spiritual twin who bedded down in a travel tavern, said "A-Ha" a lot and failed to scrawl a chalk cock on his own back where you admirably just succeeded) purely "for the purposes of a joke".

Otherwise, I could have just pulled a 'J-Willy' and fessed up to having a fucking law degree myself, completing the legal practice course and walking out on a training contract fourteen years ago to (in the words of me arl fella) "wank his life away like the half-arsed Hunter S Thompson of Huyton". Had a foul mouth on him for a 'middle class' member of the 'bourgeoise' didmy old man


"I don't know what it is with persons who seem to have an enormous chip on their shoulder"

Come on now, John. A 'level 6' lid would have to be Stephen fucking Hawking not to spot the dinosaur schlong sized 'DJ Spuddy' dangling off their left shoulder.

Eugene Ruane
301 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:44:53
Open in 1930s Chicago courtroom.

A ceiling fan turns slowly, ladies in the public gallery fan themselves.

Clarence Darrow has John Wilson 'on the stand.'

CD: "Could we first clear up the fact that when you use the word 'persons' you mean 'people'?

JW: 'Er...yes, I supp..'

CD: "So why not just SAY people?"

JW: "Well, I..um.."

CD: "Let's move on, in post 299 you state 'No, I suspect it's their middle class/ bourgeois sensitive personalities'?

JW: "Yes."

CD: "So in other words, their sensitive natures make them react, or to be precise, to overreact..correct?"

JW: "Well ye.."

CD: (turns to jury) "So it is they who are oversensitive!"

JW: (tugs collar) "y.e.s"

CD: "Could you speak up Mr Wilson?'

JW: "Yes!"

CD: "So they are sensitive (ponders)...Mr Wilson, who said..'It's as though one cannot say something on ToffeeWeb where the 'clique' congregate its forum, pissing to mark out their territory'?"

JW: "Well look..."

CD: "And remind us who said 'When persons allude or expressly state that he or she has studied law, why is there this foreseeable but of course, largely unjustifiable over reaction'?"

JW: "All I meant..."

CD: (turns to judge) "Your honour this man is making a mockery of this court and I suggest..."

Judge (angrily bangs gavel): "Case dismissed!"

Ray Roche
302 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:46:03
John, as the "Readers Digest" would have it, "Towards More Picturesque Speech". Excellent.
John Wilson
303 Posted 15/04/2017 at 11:55:52
John Daley, you can't even answer aspects of a question proportionately. In a limited space, you'd have failed a law assignment. You just bored the living daylights out of us with some personal biography.

I'll say it again: who gives a shit. I would hope your wife was excellent at what she does – not just good.

I couldn't give a shit for the vocational requirements of your wife or your obsession with yourself and your failure to be a lawyer. All this is just distraction – useless, non sequitur.

Brent Stephens
304 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:05:06
Please, God, don't let this thread ever end. Ranting posts countered with biting wit.
Chris Gould
305 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:08:17
Snore, I once completed a Rubix Cube in 3 days. You don't hear me bragging about it. I'm not even sure if that's how you spell 'Rubix'?

Plus I pulled off and replaced some of the stickers...

Brian Williams
306 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:11:10
Some people must have such empty lives,,,,,,,
Jim Bailey
307 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:13:03
Hey chaps, how about an adjournment?
John Wilson
308 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:38:47
At least arguing (debating, I meant) is better than the trivial and repetitious stream of consciousness which is usually present. I like Everton, don't get me wrong... but it is not exactly the panacea.
Kevin Tully
309 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:44:55
My bestest posters on this site are the self-proclaimed 'hexperts' who think everyone else who visit these pages are dim, half-witted football supporters.

Generally, the 'hexperts' go on to make a right twat of themselves.

John Wilson
310 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:55:49
No, not at all – but it is sometimes ad nauseum.
Daniel Lim
311 Posted 15/04/2017 at 12:58:32
Chris, I did the same. After a while the stickers didn't stick anymore.
Phil Bellis
312 Posted 15/04/2017 at 13:44:37
Very entertaining; my thanks to all contributors.

However, time to head off to the match.

Ciarán McGlone
313 Posted 16/04/2017 at 21:56:55
12 angry Wilson's.
Steve Ferns
315 Posted 16/04/2017 at 22:12:30
Did John Wilson really say I was incorrect in law. If only he knew!

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