The 27-year-old, who was brought by Ronald Koeman to St Mary's Stadium, has signed a three-year deal with the Blues.
Able to play at right full back or centre-half, the Curaçao international will add depth and versatility to the back line as Everton look ahead to what they hope will be an extended European campaign alongside their domestic commitments.
“Cuco Martina is an experienced player who can perform in different positions at the back, which is important,” Koeman told evertonfc.com.
“It's also important, with the number of games we will face in the coming campaign, that we have strength and competition in the squad.
“I brought the player to Southampton, so I know what he can do for us here and this is why I've now brought him to Everton. He is a player who will strengthen our squad and be able to play in different positions when that's needed, too.”
Martina, who joined the first-team squad that flew to the Netherlands this week, started his career at Feyenoord and played in Holland under assistant manager Erwin Koeman at RKC Waalwijk before moving on the FC Twente.
He told the official site about how he excited he is to join a big club and how he hopes to help the Blues this season.
“Everton is a big club with big ambitions and I'm really looking forward to joining this group of players and the manager as we try to step forward next season,” Martina said.
“Obviously, I know the manager from my time at Southampton, so I know what he wants and he knows what I can do.
“Everton supporters are really passionate about their Club and everyone's excited about where the Club is aiming. You can see this is a club that wants to achieve something and the players we are bringing certainly show this.
Reader Comments (229)
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1 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:05:00
2 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:07:49
3 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:07:56
4 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:09:11
5 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:11:09
6 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:11:54
I heard this was a done deal in April. I wonder why it's only been confirmed now?
Question is, is he back up for Coleman or Kenny. That is will he start the season or will Kenny. I hope the answer is he's here as back up to Kenny.
In any event, we need more experience than a couple of teenagers at right back (Holgate and Kenny), and he brings that. I just hope it doesn't stunt their development.
On a free though, can't complain. It's a body and it was needed.
7 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:12:21
More of a squad player than a first team starter probably, but important to fill the gaps.
Fingers crossed for forwards (Giroud, Dembele) and creative mid this week (Siggy/Mahrez)!
8 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:13:21
9 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:13:56
10 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:14:31
11 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:31
Koeman managed him for two seasons. Knows him way better than any of us. If he thinks this guy is worth taking a chance on a free, I'll take his word for it.
12 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:36
13 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:18:48
14 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:20:20
15 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:20:41
17 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:21:15
Think Koeman will give the position to whoever earns it by looking best in the preseason.
18 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:22:49
The question I pose is who is he back-up for? Coleman or Kenny? If Kenny, then it makes sense. He's an experienced pro who can help the youngster out. He can also play the tougher games where we need more defensive solidity. If coleman, then it is at Kenny's expense, and that upsets me, as I would like to the see Young Kenny be given a run in the side.
I first heard of this in April, and was told that the transfer was a done deal. He was out of contract and so Everton could agree a pre-contract, which was supposedly done. It must not have been, though, as it would have been confirmed on 1st July. So I wonder that has delayed this transfer?
For me, this transfer is okay if he is a body, to cover right back, and centre back, and to be another body in what will be a tough season if we do well in all competitions, and in a position where we lack cover. However, if he is to play until Coleman gets back, then it is very underwhelming, and is not the message to send to our kids, particularly after the season Kenny has had. At Kenny's age, he must be playing first team football this season if he is to make it.
19 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:24:03
20 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:24:23
I feel Jonjoe is ready to take the step up.
21 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:28:35
I think Koeman has enough credit in the bank to give him the benefit of the doubt on a player he knows well.
22 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:29:05
23 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:30:46
It never fails to amaze me at some of the prize numptys on here who question Koeman.
24 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:32:48
25 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:33:48
This honestly does have me worried because, as much as we were all excited about the spending to start the window, we've actually just spent the Lukaku money and replaced wages of those we released. It's interesting that now that Lukaku has gone, the signing we've made is a Southampton reserves cast off.
We still haven't strengthened in attack. It's looking a lot like we were banking on Barkley being sold for £40-50 million, but apparently there isn't a market for him. No clubs seem to be bothered about Barkley.
So we go on a spending spree with the expected funds from Lukaku, and now we're bringing in a free transfer from a small club? In any case, this player is nowhere near the quality of player we should be signing.
27 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:34:31
As above, I'd like to see Kenny given a chance and Martina there primarily as cover.
28 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:36:40
29 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:37:26
30 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:37:34
He can't come in and say something like this:
"Well this was the only offer I have. I'm only third choice, so I won't play, which is great because I have done sod all training, and can't be arsed, as all I am thinking about is collecting my pay-cheque for the next three weeks and watching all the games from the stands".
31 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:38:03
He played for both Koeman's before, they know and trust him. Think that's worth more than the football managers players on here.
Give him a chance eh?
32 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:39:20
Just hope the likes of Jonjoe and Mason, still get involvement, should do, for the reasons I mentioned before.
33 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:43:43
That said, I was hoping for a left-back who could fill in as a left-sided centre-back!
34 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:44:35
35 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:45:09
We all know the saying. I welcome the lad. Koeman signed him and someone else decided he wasn't good enough for Southampton after Koeman had left. Where did they finish again?
Like most blues, I'd like to see Kenny get a run in the first team but I'm not the manager so I'll just have to trust the fella who is! Our boss is highly regarded and has won the odd medal in his career. He might just know a player when he sees one (especially a defender).
It just makes me wonder whether half of TW posters regularly argue with their General Practioner about the diagnosis they're given and what medication you should take. I blame Google!
36 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:45:45
Holgate shouldn't be let near the right back position unless there's an emergency. He was poor and was substituted at end of last season, also less than impressive in that unimpressive England U21 team.
He's clearly not a fullback and Koeman has seen that, hence Martina I guess, nor is he good enough for Spurs, Liverpool etc etc at right back.
37 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:46:46
Apart from Barkley, Joe Williams is also missing and neither were on the U23 list heading to Spain, so I would imagine that they will be the next two players sent out on loan.
Hull have already expressed an interest in Pennington.
38 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:21
39 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:41
40 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:47:57
41 Posted 17/07/2017 at 17:56:40
Player there to add competition and support two young players through the up & down form young players tend to go through.
I hope Holgate is removed from the right back frame altogether and is added to the centre-back battery.
Martina, Kenny and Coleman is enough to cover this area.
Still a left-back, centre-back and two attacking players short for me.
42 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:04:15
43 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:06:31
And if Martina's signing means Holgate doesn't have to waste any more time at right-back, I'm all for it.
44 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:06:59
Koeman knows, signed, selected, played and (now) signed again the player. Seamus is highly unlikely to see any real action before 2018. The only right backs on the books are makeshift centre-backs, or young 'uns with very little exposure to the Premier League or European competition.
He can also cover at centre back, where - although we have signed Keane we have a couple of over-30s, some more (largely) untried young 'uns and (currently) a crocked Argentinian (who many on TW don't rate).
That suggests to me he is a cheap squad back-up player who, depending on game intensity on the calendar, injuries and form (his own and others) may or may not see lots of game time.
I refuse to believe that the coaching staff at Everton are blind to the absolute diamond they have at right back at the club already, Jonjoe Kenny.
Whilst personally hoping Coleman's injury would give Jonjoe a chance for a good run in the first team, I would accept it if the manager and coaching staff have a different career development mapped out for him this season in preparation ahead of promoting him to the first team and we see him sent out on loan to ensure regular league football.
45 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:12:51
If youngsters are good enough then they take their chance, which might come from an injury, and make themselves undroppable. Tom is the example they should follow. Youngsters should earn their place, so if Martina is rubbish like the experts on here claim he is then Kenny has every opportunity.
46 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:13:16
If he's a temporary fill-in based on Koeman's personal knowledge of him, then why a three-year contract?
47 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:15:31
48 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:19:41
"I have no other options, and the fools have given me a 3-year deal. I'd prefer to play but that doesn't bother me too much as I'm getting paid a fortune. Yeeeeehaaaawwww!!!"
49 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:20:36
Kenny, I am sure, will be No 1 right back at start of season. But with European competition, injury to Funes Mori and with Galloway and Browning loaned out, Koeman has gone for a cheap option to bulk the squad.
Nothing more, nothing less.
50 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:22:02
When you're trying to replace the likes of Seamus Coleman and Romelu Lukaku. Unfortunately, this all stinks of inevitable failure, and I'll quite happily eat my words if we're even in the top half come November time.
51 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:26:01
52 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:28:31
Since the takeover of the club, a benefit perhaps moreso than the potential for a tilt at big signings, is the freedom from journeymen low-quality cast-off players.
We don't need to go cheap or free like this. I also can't think he has any use as a threat or motivator for Kenny or others. Niasse was 50 times more productive last season.
53 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:30:50
He may well turn out to be utterly useless but I like the way make easy assumptions. Here's another one, I assume you've never seen the lad play?
I'll bow to Koeman's judgement for the time being.
54 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:31:45
Koeman out, Walsh out, everybody ouuuuuut!!
Ahhh that's better, aaaand breathe.
56 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:33:02
He's a back up squad player at a time we'll need such players if we want to do well in Europe and compete on other fronts for the first time in years because of our previous lack of depth.
57 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:36:11
Imagine if we hadn't signed him & Kenny or Holgate got injured & Coleman isn't recovered. Yeah we all want to see Kenny given a go, but we have to bear in mind he is unproven at Premier League level. This guy would appear to be happy being a squad player & gives us another option.
58 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:41:28
Cuco may make the position his own if he shows full commitment and contributes to success.
Anyway, welcome Cuco!
59 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:44:39
60 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:46:31
"The funniest part of the player stating why he "chose" Everton, about the ambition of the club. He didn't choose anything. He was released by Southampton after being declared not good enough to even be a reserve there and for some reason we're the club that has picked him up on a free. Not exactly as if there was a long line of top clubs after him and we won."
1. How could you possibly know what interest there is in him? Are you his agent?
2. What on earth would you prefer he say? "I was sat the centre and saw this bloke I recognised with a Blue shirt and said 'gizza job'
"It's interesting that now that Lukaku has gone, the signing we've made is a Southampton reserves cast off."
No, this is simply the 'first' signing that has got over the line since Lukaku closed, second if you count Rooney as happening at a similar time.
We are quite evidently making serious bids for other players as we have been doing pretty much every day since the window opened - unless you think a £40M offer for Sigurdsson isn't real (curious that Swansea would go to the trouble of rejecting it if so).
"We still haven't strengthened in attack."
Well, apart from buying Sandro and Rooney plus some hot youth prospects and apparently registering interest in about six other 'target-man' strikers including Giroud and a host of creative midfield players.
"It's looking a lot like we were banking on Barkley being sold for £40-50 million, but apparently there isn't a market for him. No clubs seem to be bothered about Barkley."
There's literally nothing to substantiate this at all, the only place the world looks like this is through your presumably perpetually half-empty glasses.
Firstly I'd say that it does sound like efforts have still been going on to get him to sign (including a Rooney 'plea').
Secondly, we obviously have no absolute idea how much interest there is. Sure there's less paper-talk compared to the likes of Sigurdsson and Mahrez and it does seem that Spurs are most interested, but then again we slapped a £50M price tag on a player who has just one year left on his contract so potential bidders will doubtless be more inclined to wait. How much 'interest' have you read about from Premier League teams for Aguero and Costa? Presumably no teams are interested in them either?
"So we go on a spending spree with the expected funds from Lukaku, and now we're bringing in a free transfer from a small club?"
What is the issue here? What exactly are you wanting/expecting? The club had spent £80-90M upfront before Lukaku moved anywhere on players that were identified as targets and about whom we all seem pretty chuffed.
Yes, Lukaku went for big money but do you not think the club would've preferred to keep Rom? It's not like he's been forced out or sold off easily was it? What choice was there?
More to the point, both before and since Rom's sale, we've been consistently linked with players with big fees and there is absolutely nothing to suggest that the spending has stopped. What is happening is that we're getting into more 'chewy' territory where certain departures are going to be harder to engineer (eg, Swansea digging their heels in) or are dependent on other moves (eg, Arsenal wanting to see what happens with Sanchez before deciding on other forward departures).
This is especially true in forward positions. Every single Premier League team (and most in Europe) want a proven 20-goal a season striker. Last season though only 5 players hit that mark (one of whom we've reluctantly just lost, all the rest are at clubs offering Champions League football and who were above us in the league).
It kind of feels like you're moaning because despite 6 first teamers and a similar number of young prospects arriving at the club by mid July, we're not buying enough players. Although this presumably can't be your point as you then immediately switch to decrying someone we have just bought...
"In any case, this player is nowhere near the quality of player we should be signing."
Personally I don't know the player at all so I can't inform you of his quality, even if I had seen him play a couple of times I suspect my viewpoint would be somewhat less informed than that of our manager, especially as he brought the player to his previous club beforehand.
I can agree that if this were our only signing or a clear first-choicer then he wouldn't be a name to get excited about. But pretty clearly he's not that. Our first choice right-back is Coleman (who's injured), our great new hope is Kenny (who's experienced). In this circumstance is it not sensible to sign some cover for the position?
And how much more sensible would it be if that cover player was signed on a free transfer thus not blocking off any other signings or budgets?
Or is what you're really ultimately complaining about here the fact we're not spending enough money regardless of results? Should the mission of the transfer window really be to blow the most cash we can, Man City-style? Would you be happier if we'd spunked out £45M for Kyle Walker rather than £25-30M for Keane for instance?
I can only speculate as to how you'd react if we'd spent £85M+ on a forward with a shit first touch who scores well against weaker sides but goes missing in the big games and has questionable temperament/loyalty.
61 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:46:57
Mr Cuco is known by Koeman ; he is therefore presumably competent.
Also depending upon how the players perform in training, fitness, form, tactics and other options such as experience and character, then he is understood to be a very good squad player the same as everyone else!
He should be respected as such. Give him and the management a break. Its going to be a long hard season, longer and harder the more successful we are. It is a squad game, with a team ethos, not a team game of assembled prima donnas (take a bow Rom).
Just so there is no confusion, Jonjoe should have a long and successful career with Everton, and I fully expect his first big season will be 2016-17. Cuco or no Cuco.
62 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:48:39
Not all of our signings need to be for £50 million.
63 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:49:42
Gueye last year was perceived by many as not the right type of calibre we required; part of a midfield that was effectively relegated by Christmas. It's how they fit into our team that matters.
It could and probably will help Kenny. We just don't know how long Coleman will take to recover and how he will come back plus with the Europa League there will (hopefully) be a lot of games to get through. You can't expect Kenny to make the step up and do it consistently to the highest standard every single game. He would burn out.
Also, versatility and cover. My understanding is he's a right sided defender, not an out and out right back. Sounds like a signing with the squad in mind.
65 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:50:18
66 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:55:31
"Just so there is no confusion, Jonjnoe should have a long and successful career with Everton, and I fully expect his first big season will be 2016-17."
Jonjoe Kenny, footballer and Time Lord.
Wouldn't that be amazing?
We'd never lose another game!
67 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:56:28
We've been without a backup right-back for years and with the extra games this year, especially leading up to the Christmas period, we need a deeper squad. He's coming in knowing that he's the back-up to Coleman, so being the back-up to Kenny won't be a huge change for him.
68 Posted 17/07/2017 at 18:59:26
69 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:00:40
70 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:03:22
I'm not even sure where to start after that novel you just wrote, but I'll start with your shock at my assertion we haven't strengthened in attack.
We have sold Lukaku, the second highest scorer in he Premier League last season and our record goal scorer in the Premier League era. We've also sold Deulofeu back to Barcelona, which we had no control over, and let Valencia go after his loan ended.
Meanwhile, we've signed Rooney and Sandro, with Klaassen added in midfield. Sandro has never played in England, so we have no idea how he will do or if it will take time for him to adapt. There is a long line of Spanish strikers coming to England and struggling.
Rooney is at the end of his career. I hope he still has something left, but he couldn't get into the United team at the end of last season. And Klaassen is not a striker.
As for not knowing what other clubs might have been in for this guy. Come on now. You don't believe for one second that any of the clubs above us wanted this player. He was a reserve for Southampton and left on a free.
This stinks of another Stekelenburg signing, not what we should be doing. You have a youth system to provide cover when needed. I would much rather see Holgate continue in that position or Kenny, as opposed to this guy while our youngsters sit on the bench. A three-year contract? That's what loans are for.
71 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:09:57
Three-year contract, well if he's not needed in 12 months time, we can get a few quid for him.
72 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:16:40
There is a lot of talk about how good Kenny is but no one knows how he will handle the extra pace, skill level and pressure of the Premier League. Plenty have praised young players not fit for the premier level, like Garbutt, and Kenny may not make it.
Koeman knows Kenny the coaching staff know Kenny. It doesn't make them infallible in their judgment but the decision is not being made blind. My sense is that Kenny is better offensively than defensively and needs some more development he could do well in the Premier League or he could sink as Chambers did a couple of seasons back and lost a lot in the process.
I'm going to trust in Koeman and hope that Kenny gets chances in certain competitions and in the league if/when he is ready.
73 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:17:23
As for signing Stekelenburg last season, unless you've got an arrangement to play the understudy goalkeeper in cup matches, how are you going to attract a top quality understudy?
Buying for the first team and buying for the squad are two different things. At least Martina came on a free and is known to Koeman.
74 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:19:59
Kenny doesn't need a loan or bedding in he needs first team football he has more than earned his chance; there is a vacancy in the squad and he should play.
We have a great crop of trophy-winning youngsters who should not have their progress blocked by average journeymen.
What is the point of getting rid of squad filling freebies like Cleverley and McGeady if we are bringing in more of the same ilk?
75 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:21:25
76 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:23:54
Why not give his £30k/week and half a mil signing-on fee to Giroud or Sigurdsson?
77 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:19
3 years is long... longer than Koeman will probably be around!
78 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:23
79 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:23
80 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:25:45
81 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:31:54
I am not saying that he (Jonjoe) doesn't look to be an exciting prospect or that he shouldn't be given game time but we do need a big squad so don't damn this new boy so quickly. He is an Everton player now so give him some support.
82 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:35:27
I think Kenny's opportunity to "prove" himself will surface while Coleman is away be it in a European game or the Premier League.
Good signing. Prudent signing, minimally.
83 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:35:48
84 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:36:44
But to simply gift the starting right-back job to a 20-year-old with zero first-team experience is Looney Tunes material in my opinion.
Even if Kenny turns out to be as good as we expect and that is certainly not assured there's no way a young 140-pound kid like this can play every game between now and the New Year when we hope Coleman returns.
Guess I trust Koeman's judgement more than you do.
85 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:38:04
86 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:39:20
87 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:43:50
If we play this fella regularly, he will make mistakes and cost us games just like he did at Southampton
88 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:47:20
89 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:50:22
Oh I forgot, can not question Dear Leader. He knows all and we know nothing.
By the way, I'd sooner give Lennon a run as a right wing back than this guy.
90 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:52:10
A good move, on a free and Ron knows the lad and he also knows we need cover, if he thought Martina was suspect then surely he would not have brought him in or considered him good for the benefit of the team.
91 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:55:51
Holgate has been ahead of him so far even though he's not a great right back. I didn't rate Holgate at the euros either so we needed someone with some experience.
I'm not sure about this guy either unfortunately but I'll stop short of making assumptions that he's shit.
92 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:57:12
With that reasoning, how do we sign anybody as no-one would be good enough if they chose Everton over that lot?
93 Posted 17/07/2017 at 19:59:23
Just fill us in on the player a bit more.
When was it you managed him? Or even saw him play?
94 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:00:05
95 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:07:48
96 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:08:26
”Sorry, if he's not good enough for Spurs, man City, Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal or Liverpool, then he's not good enough for Everton. It really can and should be that simple."
Absolute simplistic horseshit. It implies we cannot make good judgement and also would lead us to be the most ripped off club ever as every player we went for, we had to have beaten one of those clubs to get him.
Get a grip, lad. You know what you wrote just came from a dislike of the Boss and that is making you make ludicrous claims under the guise of the bold man fighting against the majority.
Well you may be but I see little bravado, just nonsense.
97 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:18:22
He's here on a free, we need cover at right-back with the amount of games we've got with the Europa league and the league.
Seamus is a long term injury and Jonjoe is unproven at the moment. I think this is a smart signing, they'll both play who knows who will play in the Premier League. Maybe Kenny in the cups to get experience and then he might cement his place in the league. Again, who knows? But I do know we need cover and Koeman knows him and I trust his judgement.
Galloway couldn't get into the West Brom side.. should we sell him off claiming he's shite too?
98 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:19:27
Should he sustain an injury and it would mean playing Calvert-Lewin. Now he looks very promising but, for me, given our early fixtures, I think we need more firepower than we have at present.
99 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:19:52
Strange signing, a sort of Everton of old signing.
100 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:27:42
101 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:36:04
102 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:36:15
That makes me very sad. Sheeds the Legend does not belong in friggin' Saudi Arabia. He belongs at Finch Farm and Goodison.
103 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:42:35
Of course, Koeman's latest signing will allow opportunities for the likes of Kenny and Holgate 'to gain experience' by being sent out on loan whilst we await Coleman's return.
You have to see the' long picture' not re-act to every little foible of our manager. After all, as Moyes used to tell us, 'Teams are not built in one transfer window'.
104 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:47:16
105 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:50:15
I didn't say he was sad... I said I was!
106 Posted 17/07/2017 at 20:59:25
I don't think anyone wants to spend a load of money on a right back so a free one who the manager knows with Premier League experience battling with a kid I hope succeeds is the right way forward.
107 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:07:21
Darren (#83), I also hope Kenny gets the gig, but in the event of him not being good enough or being over-exposed too soon, I'm glad we've brought in cover. Looks prudent to me.
108 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:12:24
We still don't know what Coleman will be like on his return, these type of long term injuries often mean the player has a lot of niggling injuries on their return. Kenny is inexperienced and Holgate is a centre-back, so it's a no-brainer.
What top right-back would come to Everton knowing that they'll probably be 2nd in line to Coleman, especially as he has just signed a new contract? Also, we are going to hopefully be playing a huge amount of games, meaning more injuries, suspensions and fatigue. I can't see anything wrong with this signing.
For those complaining about striking recruits, there is still a long way to go before the transfer window closes. Lukaku needs replacing, yes. Valencia and Kone were never first-team material, whereas Rooney and Sandro appear to be.
We are going in the right direction, and some!
109 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:15:48
I certainly hope Kenny starts the season at right-back. What's wrong with competition though?
Kenny has hardly played at the top level and may need to be rotated in and out. Martina will help this. When Coleman gets back well I'm not so sure. Like most though I rate Kenny and don't want his progress to stall.
Martina is probably a better option than Holgate too who looked a bit devoid of ideas going forward last season. Modern full backs need both sides of the game to survive.
110 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:18:20
111 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:23:36
Having watched football for many decades, squads, teams, groups of players, evolve; some better than others. When this squad finally starts to play together we will see. If all is good, fine, some players who we think may be our strongest may struggle, weaker ones may rise, but the squad may be really good.
We now have numbers, we now have players that may be able to perform. Young, old, it don't matter, if, and hopefully when we start turning up week after week, home and AWAY, the players will play.
I never ever in the 60s went to a game thinking we could ever lose. Maybe we can start having the same thoughts soon.
112 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:27:40
113 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:32:33
114 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:35:40
115 Posted 17/07/2017 at 21:51:05
116 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:02:51
Hope Holgate gets game time, but better suited at centre back.
117 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:17:23
118 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:17:33
119 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:23:21
"I'm not even sure where to start after that novel you just wrote, but I'll start with your shock at my assertion we haven't strengthened in attack. We have sold Lukaku, the second highest scorer in he Premier League last season and our record goal scorer in the premier league era. We've also sold Deulofeu back to Barcelona, which we had no control over, and let Valencia go after his loan ended."
This will be Deulofeu who was on loan the entirety of last season and scored a mammoth 2 goals in 25 games the season before. As for Valencia, would you seriously think our front-line would be strengthened by signing a player that West Ham didn't want?
Yes, Lukaku has gone and obviously that would be a loss to any club (even Chelsea who let him go to begin with); I get that v and yes we need to add at least one more frontline striker (maybe even two) to play up along with the likes of Rooney, Sandro etc, but what indicates to you that this isn't a clearly understood priority for the club also?
Your assertion was that somehow we'd missed the boat or that the likes of Martina were being brought in some how above a forward which is clearly absolute nonsense.
"Meanwhile, we've signed Rooney and Sandro, with Klaassen added in midfield. Sandro has never played in England, so we have no idea how he will do or if it will take time for him to adapt. There is a long line of Spanish strikers coming to England and struggling. Rooney is at the end of his career. I hope he still has something left, but he couldn't get into the Man Utd team at the end of last season. And Klaassen is not a striker."
These are all valid points to make, but also the sort of objections that will apply to every signing to some degree.
"Sanchez, Hazard, Mahrez, Costa, Aguero, Van Persie etc, etc" has never played in the Premier League before they started either – obviously Sandro has every chance of being a flop as a success as with any signing (Premier League pedigree or not – on this note it is not a certainty that Lukaku will be a success at Man Utd for instance, is he really better than Abrahmovic, Martial, Rashford, etc?)
Re Rooney, obviously he's in the final stages of his career not the start, but equally he's a passion-led player who'd clearly lost his mojo at Man Utd, was played all over the place and like many others was made to look ordinary by Mourinho's spoil-first tactics (who has stood out in the Man Utd lineup?).
Klassen is not a striker, no argument there!
In addition to above I'd yet again reiterate my point that you're talking as if the transfer window is over or there's been ANY indication we won't add to the forward line with further signings.
"As for not knowing what other clubs might have been in for this guy. Come on now. You don't believe for one second that any of the clubs above us wanted this player. He was a reserve for Southampton and left on a free."
I don't know that any of the clubs above us wanted this player, I suspect you could be right, most of them aren't looking for right-backs. Thing is that wasn't your point was it – you asserted that no-one else wanted him, not '6 clubs above us didn't want him'.
"This stinks of another Stekelenburg signing, not what we should be doing. You have a youth system to provide cover when needed. I would much rather see Holgate continue in that position or Kenny, as opposed to this guy while our youngsters sit on the bench. A three-year contract? That's what loans are for."
Koeman clearly has hopes to be in multiple competitions for sometime to come, to do that you need a squad and not one filled out just by loan players that have to be replaced each season but by players who are half-decent but recognise they won't be first choice and are happy to play a squad role and hopefully fight for a place.
This is exactly what Martina and Stekelenburg are and why I think they are smart signings. You can't have 30 first-choice stars and keep them happy, that approach doesn't even work in Football Manager anymore – nevermind the real premier league packed with prima donnas and even more temperamental agents.
I totally agree that giving the youngsters a chance is part of the strategy, but to go into an Premier League and Europa League campaign without any sort of experience in the right-back position seems crazy.
As I see it we have Coleman who'll be first choice when he recovers, but until then we give Kenny a chance and rotate with Martina as needed.
Holgate is a centre-back and with Funes Mori out should be started/rotated in that position along with Keane, Williams and Jags.
120 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:25:03
121 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:29:24
With regard to our very talented youngsters, they will learn from older players like Martina and, knowing that they cannot just walk into the team, will try even harder to impress Koeman.
For too long, we have had a team that picked itself and that's why we have struggled and the trophy cupboard has not been used for 22 years.
122 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:39:09
There's a market of 150k+ there, over c 50k of which are 15+ year-old males; if just 10% of them bought a shirt, that'd be enough to pay a week of Wayne's wages!
123 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:40:38
124 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:43:58
125 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:44:46
Ferguson, Mourinio, Wenger none had ever managed or succeeded in England until... erm, the first time they managed in England.
Since when has experience in playing or managing in Eng-ger-lund been relevant to succeeding?
126 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:45:02
Have there been any top 6 approaches for Tom Davies? If not, then get rid.
127 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:53:42
128 Posted 17/07/2017 at 22:55:02
I remember well, an interview with Bob Paisley, of the Red Shite, and he so succinctly, said this, you can go out and buy players, the best players in the world, for every position, but that will guarantee you nothing; every player, no matter how good everyone thinks he is, has weaknesses. You have to achieve that balance, by having Workhorses, who play to their strengths, and cover their weaknesses.
I have never forgotten that, and although, he was manager/assistant to Shankly, I totally respect both of them for their football ethics, which I believe still holds true today.
Pity, very few, even managers, Don't heed there invaluable advice!
I am in no way a Red Shite, but I did respect both of those men, and being a fellow Scot, I did meet Shanks on several occasions, through non-football situations, and Paisley once.
They were legends.
129 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:00:44
130 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:01:35
Before we signed this guy we only had one right back, Kenny, who has bugger all senior experience. Do you not think it wise we get another in with experience? Holgate is not a right back and it'll likely be 2018 before Coleman's ready to kick a ball in anger, nevermind not being certain how long it'll take him to play at his peak again.
If Kenny's ready to step up then he should prove it and if people don't rate this signing then Kenny shouldn't have a problem, should he? We'll also have a load more games to play with the Europa League so an extra body is a bonus imo.
131 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:09:52
132 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:11:48
If he starts against Stoke, I despair!
For those of you say give the guy a chance, he's only cover, etc read this Q&A session with a Southampton fan. When you all see him play, I'll try not to come on here and say I told you so:
But a few highlights:
Q. What are Martina's weaknesses?
A. Everything that involves having a football at his feet.
Q. He's been brought in solely as cover for Seamus Coleman. Can he fill the Irishman's boots, or should Koeman stick to Mason Holgate or Jonjoe Kenny on the right?
A. Koeman knows Martina and vice-versa – it wouldn't surprise me to see him lining up on the opening day of the season. However, I think Holgate is a lot better than Martina. He'll do a job for you in the cup games – maybe not in the Europa League ones – but he's pretty below par, so I'd stick with Holgate. I've heard good things about Kenny, too.
Q. To summarise – on a free transfer – is Martina a good signing for Everton?
A. I don't personally think so, no. While there's a low-risk strategy behind the move, I don't see the logic in it myself. Yes, he's just a cover option, but surely you can do better!
133 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:13:37
No, I believe that it is Leighton Baines who may break sweat, as much as it saddens me to say it. He has lost a lot of his pace and his engine isn't the same to get him up and down the wing like he used to. A couple of years ago I think he had the highest amount of assists in the Premier League.
However, I don't think he's finished. I think that if Cuco is is tried at left-back, then Baines can move forward to midfield. There aren't many at the club who can pass as accurately as he can, and he could be causing all kinds of problems in a Mata type role, without worrying about getting back.
134 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:14:24
Other than Baines, I think we may be starting the first league game with an entirely new team of Koeman signings (plus Davies). He'd have changed the whole side in barely 12 months that's some doing if it comes off.
135 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:25:24
I'd expect at least 2 more before the season starts (ideally before the start of August), first choice attacking midfield (I'd be happy with Sigurdsson or Mahrez even at £40M+) and a target-man up front (tougher choice I think there's sense in Giroud but we'd need supporting pace, haven't heard much more about Dembele so I suspect that's off).
136 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:26:34
So if you had an untested 20-year-old with great potential as your only right back what would you do? I'd bring in an experienced free transfer.
137 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:28:06
138 Posted 17/07/2017 at 23:44:42
139 Posted 17/07/2017 at 00:08:05
The season before that, they had had the same number of big players leave in the summer, with the same number of new signings. They finished 7th, in his first season in the Premier League.
It's therefore reasonable to hope that with our influx of players, including Martina, for the loss up to now of only Lukaku in terms of "first-team", we have genuine cause to be excited about the extent of our improvement next season.
Koeman has proved he has the kudos, twice.
But hey, let's have a whinge because Martina ain't a super-star!
140 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:23:20
Says to the youngsters 'Are you better'? Prove it.
141 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:30:11
I'm personally whinging about Martina for one simple reason. He's absolute garbage and no where good enough for a team trying to break into top 4. Read the link I posted a couple of entries back.
And that's the 100% majority view from any Southampton fan you could talk too. Not one thinks he's even okay, let alone good. You'll see but don't say you were not warned.
The only hope I have now is that Kenny gets in and is at least given a chance before this guy. If Martina is straight in with no sign of Kenny, then I'll despair.
142 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:33:24
First of all though, Don, I want Jonjoe Kenny to have first go at proving his value to the team. Jonjoe has worked his socks off at Everton since he was a young boy at the club, and now he is twenty he deserves ago at right back.
Fairs fair, Martina is a free transfer, he will be getting a very good deal with a 3-year deal, so he can wait while Jonjoe, who has been here ten years or more has first go in the team, if he isn't up to the job, Cuco can have a go. I think he will have a bit of a wait.
143 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:51:20
Martina played half a season for a team that came 6th. Hopefully that shows he's not a liability. Koeman has two seasons left to get us a Champions League spot. He doesn't know how well Seamus will recover, or precisely when, save it'll be 2018 in all likelihood, and he therefore has every right to be nervous going into the season with Kenny alone as an out-and-out right back.
As ever with new signings though, whatever their cost, contract or salary, who knows? All I'm saying is let's try to support him, the manager and the club (in reverse order) until they've shown themselves in our colours to be deserving of complaint.
144 Posted 18/07/2017 at 00:53:36
And some people still think it's poor business and a huge mistake; I'd say this transfer window has given some people on here delusions of grandeur.
As others have mentioned, we will hopefully be competing on four fronts, and need a squad equipped to fulfil a congested fixture list. Hopefully Jonjoe Kenny will rise to the challenge of becoming a regular first-teamer, but in the event that his form dips or that he is not as ready as we hope he is then having Martina in the squad could be vital.
I think Martina is a decent stop-gap. If Kenny proves himself, and Coleman returns to the form and fitness of before, then maybe Martina will move on in 12 months time, and earn us a little transfer fee into the bargain. And if he stays then hopefully it will be because he has earned his place in the squad.
145 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:04:23
Better than buying a 24- or 25-year-old established right-back who blocks the path of a potentially very good player.
Right move by Everton. Good assessment of the situation. Koeman gets a merit point for that.
146 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:30:09
Obviously my views on this guy haven't changed (see my post a few back and the general consensus of his ability direct from Southampton fans).
Would rather have had Hibbert back as cover. Dreadful signing.
Still onwards and upwards. Happy with all the other signings and will be hopefully happy with more in-comings.
I'm sure we will revisit what a great (!?) signing this chap is after he's played a few games. But I really hope that signing photo shoot is the last time I see him in an Everton shirt.
147 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:33:08
No-brainer for me especially as the manager already knows his strengths and weaknesses.
148 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:35:04
149 Posted 18/07/2017 at 01:36:02
150 Posted 17/07/2017 at 01:49:09
Personally I'll reserve judgement until I see him play.
151 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:01:32
This debut offers something for everyone heavy touches, missed chances, easily surrendered balls and 'hands in the air' protestations. Textbook stuff...
152 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:25:59
153 Posted 18/07/2017 at 02:32:09
154 Posted 18/07/2017 at 03:20:41
I agree with comments relating to Kenny. I hope Kenny gets his chance to step up.
155 Posted 18/07/2017 at 03:44:34
However this strategy is only properly implemented if Martina is of a decent Premier League standard...and I am concerned that so many of the Southampton fans don't think so. I guess we shall have to wait and see.
156 Posted 18/07/2017 at 04:10:21
"However this strategy is only properly implemented if Martina is of a decent Premier League standard."
That's been my point all along. I don't disagree we need cover and more bodies in. The whole reason I've been so against this signing is because he is not a decent premier league standard.
Unfortunately people have their head in the sand thinking "he can do a job; "it's good we have more bodies in", "Koeman knows him" etc arguments.
He is a very poor player and that is the sole reason I personally hope we rarely, if ever, see him in an Everton first XI.
I'm not Koeman. I'm not Walsh or a scout so my opinion counts for very little (like most here on tw) but my expectations are rock bottom on him so at least I'm prepared. Others will be in for a rude awakening.
Speak to any single Southampton fan, I personally know a couple, and you'll get the same response about his ability.
Finally, a 3-year contract? That's pretty dumb and a complete waste of resources. No idea how his agent got him that!
157 Posted 18/07/2017 at 04:53:15
If I was Kenny and this bloke started before me I'd be tempted to ask Ross for his agent's phone number. Our cast-offs are sold to Barcelona, Man Utd and possibly Spurs and we pick up Dutch reserves from Southampton's free list. Now there's a message!
159 Posted 18/07/2017 at 06:24:26
I don't know any Saints supporters here, so I logged onto a couple of their fan forums and found opinion considerably more mixed than you claim.
"Thank you, Cuco, for treating us all to a wonder goal. It may well have been the only memorable thing you ever did, but WOW! it was spectacular." "One of the great days to be a Saint's fan, seeing Cuco blast in like that v the Arsenal - 4-0 in the end wasn't it? Thanks Cuco." "A bit of a shame how it turned out for him at Saints. The guy definitely has the potential to be a very good player, just needs good coaching and the confidence that a decent run in the first team will bring." "Really? I thought he was a nice bloke with a good attitude who was a very limited footballer." "That's how I remember him. I think that goal gave him confidence in the second half of that season but he is not a Premier League level player." "he is gonna set Goodison Park alight." "Good luck to the lad. Very likable character, but no loss to our squad." "And will always be remembered for THAT goal! Heavens - still makes me smile thinking about it now. Probably will always do so too." "Also we got far more good games out of Cuco than I was expecting for the money we paid. I personally count him as a good buy."
"One of the great days to be a Saint's fan, seeing Cuco blast in like that v the Arsenal - 4-0 in the end wasn't it? Thanks Cuco."
"A bit of a shame how it turned out for him at Saints. The guy definitely has the potential to be a very good player, just needs good coaching and the confidence that a decent run in the first team will bring."
"Really? I thought he was a nice bloke with a good attitude who was a very limited footballer."
"That's how I remember him. I think that goal gave him confidence in the second half of that season but he is not a Premier League level player."
"he is gonna set Goodison Park alight."
"Good luck to the lad. Very likable character, but no loss to our squad."
"And will always be remembered for THAT goal! Heavens - still makes me smile thinking about it now. Probably will always do so too."
"Also we got far more good games out of Cuco than I was expecting for the money we paid. I personally count him as a good buy."
So, gee, James, it does seem that your opinion is NOT that of the "...100% majority view from any Southampton fan you could talk too."
Is it now?
160 Posted 18/07/2017 at 06:38:00
If Barkley does leave, a Klaassen / Sigurdsson comparison would be more appropriate.
I really fail to see your point.
161 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:15:08
Out of those quotes you've posted I would count 5 who didn't rate him, with a couple not really saying, so technically you're correct going by that and I would say 100% of fans was probably a few % over. I should have used the words "vast majority of fans" and "all 100% of Southampton fans I know , albeit only two, think he's poor".
You know my view and what it's based on "majority (not 100%) of Southampton fans and my own eyes" and I think that's still stronger than your overall argument of "Koeman knows him and we need cover". And did you read the link I posted re the interview from the read Southampton guy? Quite enlightening on his talent.
Shall we say, let's revisit after he's played say 5 or 10 games for us to get your views and compare notes then?
Whatever happens, I hope Kenny gets first crack at right back and Holgate gets some centre-back game time.
162 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:30:22
163 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:40:40
165 Posted 18/07/2017 at 07:47:32
But more importantly, whilst the "young man" comment was a great way to begin the day, I am 56, have little evidence that that is the new 40 and was therefore pre-modern education standards (did I write last bit?!)
167 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:14:17
But to clarify. I do know a couple of fans but my view is not based on that alone. It's also based on the majority of other Southampton fans who have written about him. Either on forums, Twitter or in interviews like the link I previously posted. Plus my own eyes.
Annnnnnyhow. Enough on this guy from me, I've said my piece. Not one argument through the entire thread has swayed my opinion. I will revisit once he's played 5 /10 games so we can all judge him based on performances for us.
168 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:37:16
He has experience and I doubt if he is asking for much money. The performance of Kenny in Tanzania was not very good, Pennington in the second half was better.
So what do you do, sign a proper right back for big money & Kenny will be sold as he will never get a look in? Or do you sign a player well known to the manager & hope one of either Kenny or Markelo is good enough to challenge Coleman next season?
Not a difficult decision really.
169 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:38:29
I have no idea if he will be a decent signing having not seen him in a game. Where did you watch him play?
170 Posted 18/07/2017 at 08:51:07
Over to you, James. How many times have you watched him or are you, like me, listening to other people's opinions?
171 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:00:35
That will keep him in a job come the end of the season.
172 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:07:56
For me it's like the story of the genie in the bottle. For the first thousand years he was going to reward anyone who let him out with riches beyond a mortal's wildest dreams. For the next thousand years he would kill whoever let him out. It seems that TW opinion is a polarised as the genie's.
FFS by all means state an opinion if it's researched and balanced, and predict the outcome so you can say "I told you so" later. But also add in they are now Everton players and deserving of our support and don't deserve to be treated this way simply for accepting an offer of a job. I would hate to offend some of our fans (yes I remember some of Rooney's silly antics and all the tit-for-tat before I get accused of blind loyalty etc), as Crucifixion seems to be too humane a punishment for some.
Do they still sell cushions for the top of the Main Stand? Lock and load guys cos sooner or later, one of them is going to have a stinker. Let's just hope it's not one of the youngsters.
173 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:11:47
174 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:13:24
The Southampton fans seem happy to see him leave but Ronald appears to believe in him. Let's see who's right.
175 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:15:20
Let's face it whoever comes in isn't going to be a regular once Coleman is fit so no big name would bother coming (bar Coleman's injury failing to heal). Should we really spend £20 mill on a reserve right back? Also, since Koeman has good knowledge of him he should perform at a level expected by the club.
I, like most people on here, also hope Kenny gets a good run as well, meaning this seems a good level of back up for the squad. He might not get much game time but he might not be getting bought to get much game time.
Also whilst for our (fans) purposes 3 years seems a long time, footballer contracts usually are for 3 years or more unless they are in mid 30's etc. The footballer wants security and won't just sign for one year and also, if he is surplus to requirements, we could sell him for a profit next summer and everyone's a winner.
176 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:18:21
177 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:23:18
He played a year above himself then and that's when he first went to Everton, little did we know that the kid would end up a World Cup winner!
Who knows how this season is going to go? But if Kenny doesn't play, he will need to get out on loan, like Phil says, because otherwise I'm sure the kid will be thinking "What's the point?"
Do think that Jonjoe, is made of the right character though, and I'm sure once he gets his foot in, then he will go from strength to strength. He might have to fill out a little bit for the Premier League, like Mike says, but he's very good defensively and always tackles his full weight.
178 Posted 18/07/2017 at 09:23:35
Deulofeu wasn't good enough for us, but is good enough for Barcelona to buy back (even if its a gamble to sell on for profit in a couple of years). It's a funny old game innit.
Just because we have money, does not mean we should whizz it all over the wall; it's a sensible signing. Premier League experienced international, on a free, even if he is cover, or competition for Holgate, Kenny and Coleman. With Europa League, we need good depth and cover, and he provides it. Look at how long it took Oviedo to recover, and Li Tie was never the same player when he came back from his broken leg.
179 Posted 18/07/2017 at 10:14:59
I've seen him the flesh three times I think I worked it out as. I normally get to about 4 Southampton games a season as my friends who have season tickets give me a shout if they can't make it, so I head down there for a weekend now and again well, I did before moving to Australia.
Anyhow, one particular game I saw him in was against Sunderland. Think the game ended 1-1 Van Dijk got a last-minute equaliser from memory. Southampton were pretty poor throughout but I remember the right back being particularly bad. Several times he got into good crossing positions only to either smash it too long or skew it out. I also thought his positional defensive play was highly suspect and kind of reminded me of a first year Coleman (in defensive play only I might add). I made the comment to my friends that he's shocking.
Now, fast forward and I didn't remember that in all honesty but, after we were interested in signing him in January, my friends relayed the information back to me on who he was (after my enquiry to them: "Who is that?") and it all came flooding back.
The rest of my anti-Martina post is based off the same friends' opinion as well as the majority view of the fans I've looked through on forums and other social media.
I do believe fans normally have a very good idea on players and they generally fall into 3 categories. The majority will either love a player, be ambivalent or do not rate him. This guy falls into the latter, no question.
I really hope Kenny takes his chance and we don't have to sit through Martina, week-in & week-out. I guess we'll find out soon enough!
ps: One player I thought was excellent that season when I saw them play was Mane. I was gutted when he signed for them!
180 Posted 18/07/2017 at 10:25:43
Nevermind; let's see what you've got, Cuco...
181 Posted 18/07/2017 at 11:59:19
We would never have bought Tim Cahill because he was awful in a Cup Final for Millwall or Mikel Arteta because it was only in Scotland he looked good or Lukaku because he missed a penalty in the Super Cup.
Get a grip, that the management do their job and lets see what happens when they pull on the jersey. Then we can all form an opinion and debate the crap out of it.
Welcome on board to Martina and good luck if/when you play for the mighty Blues.
182 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:04:45
183 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:14:15
Furthermore I think Riedewald is mentally not the strongest, not a winner mentality. Prone to clash with Koeman. Riedewald only played a small role in Ajax's campaign last year for a reason. Will frustrate fans a lot when he goes missing in games, not something you want from a defender. On the other hand, still only 20 and bags of potential. May be the step up to the Premier League gives him the push he needs to fulfill that potential.
Martina is quite clearly cover for the right-back position, someone with a positive attitude, who will not complain when he doesn't make the squad for weeks in a row. Professional player. And most probably cheap compared with British equivalents.
With Riedewald you buy an left-back or centre-back and a big question mark, which could turn out to be a great buy. With Martina you buy an right-back who will deliver exactly what you expect, little upside potential but little downside potential at the same time. The two lads are in more than one sense incomparable.
184 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:48:44
Don't you think the stance of 'Koeman knows him so must be okay' is just as flawed as what you point out? He has hardly had a stellar record from when he's been in charge of transfers has he?
And again, in my opinion, our scouting team have had very little input on Martina. Simply because he hardly played for Southampton last season. This is purely a Koeman pal signing, á la Stekelenburg.
And I don't rate him from a number of factors which I've documented if you look through this thread and any other about him. Some posters seem to agree. Others don't. That's cool. That's what make this place fun.
I'm not normally a moaning mini and have been very happy with all our signings up to this one. Anyway, enough on Martina from me. You'll see. Just don't come bleating on here when you see for yourself.
185 Posted 18/07/2017 at 12:58:03
It's a definite 'wait and see' for me. Low risk, not really a big deal.
186 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:08:12
Either way, the die is cast but I have a feeling that Riedewald might leave a better Premier League legacy than Martina, time will tell.
187 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:14:18
That Mane you mentioned earlier, James? £11 million.
Van Dijk? £13million.
Unless they were forced on him by Les Reed. 😁
189 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:25:44
I know he was instrumental in getting to have a Director of Football type, but it was clear from the Klaassen signing comments that this was Koeman's signing; he had scouted him, and he wanted him.
192 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:40:08
I think Koeman is a good manager but my point was he is hardly fallible when it comes to signing players. No manager is. I just think it's silly to say one argument is crap with the come back argument being 'Koeman has seen him play'.
We know Stekelenburg was defo his signing and wasn't Koeman in charge of Valenica when he went on a spending spree, resulting in them fighting off the bank and being near relegation trouble by the time he was sacked?
193 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:40:40
It was noted that Martina played 25 games for Koeman at Southampton. Now, I could be wrong and I haven't checked but that sounds like the first half of a 38 game season. If so, why didn't he play the full season and why was he not used at all the following season? Does give the impression that those who say he isn't that good may have a point.
It appears that we will have a workman like side without any flair which seems odd for a manager who played at club and international level with one of the games greats, Cruyff, at his peak who ran those sides. To me, this bodes for a repeat of finishing 6th or 7th but not troubling the sides above.
I don't want this posting to become a marathon but straight forward honest Ron doesn't strike me as such, certainly not in the differing ways he handles players.
Andrew (#176); That 19-year-old has been getting rave reviews and was part of an U20 World Cup winning team and deserves first bite as Coleman's replacement. Given Koeman's treatment of players, if the kid spoke up for himself then Honest Ron probably would do a Barkley on him. Do you not think he deserves first go or will you wait until the manager has something to say on his performances? Just as well Unsworth had a game in charge for 18-year-old Davies to take his chance.
194 Posted 18/07/2017 at 13:45:49
195 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:00:17
Anyhow, I hope he comes in and proves to be a world beater but I've got my doubts about it. Whatever, I still would like to see Kenny get first chance and would really appreciate a world class creative midfielder.
An old question but who was the defensive element of the Holy Trinity?
196 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:09:55
As for the Holy Trinity, well before my time. But my dad led me to believe that they could all play, and all put their foot in. I think Kendall was the more defensive of the trio, and Bally was more attacking. But I'll leave it to the experts.
197 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:11:21
Factor in that two of current centre-backs have a combined age of 66 years (susceptible to injury), you start to see why Koeman has opted for a cheap, reliable and flexible squad player.
Holgate can cover right-back in short bursts, but over a long season? He looked uncomfortable on occasion last season.
So, welcome Cuco – we may come to rely on his flexibility.
198 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:15:06
199 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:22:10
One a couple of months into his start and one the next season.
Steve Ferns, you probably know but I was displaying the lowest form of wit.
200 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:23:56
Then say Coleman does return from injury, you have experienced cover for him, or a young player itching to take the starting position from him. Signing Martina on a free, a player the manager already knows the strengths and weaknesses of, makes perfect sense to me. I know the club have splashed a lot of money about recently, but surely Koeman still has to work within a budget?
201 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:33:05
I remember after a season's opening game at Old Trafford that all Man Utd's players agreed Colin Harvey had it all. Now, why don't we at least try for someone like that, someone who can and does play at both ends of the pitch.
[Takes tablet and lies down.]
202 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:33:34
I loved Kendall who could tackle, great passer of the ball... I would say he did more in defence than Harvey even if he scored a bit more than Colin who, as Don (#198) says, was a brilliant player to watch. He and Howard got one cap between them which was a crying shame.
Great to watch the three of them in a wonderful period of Everton's history and sadly only Colin left.
203 Posted 18/07/2017 at 14:59:38
I don't think Koeman is trying deliberately to get rid of flair players. He sent Deulofeu out on loan because he wasn't up to the rigours, physicality and pace of the PL (and then Barcelona exercised the buy-back) and he offered Barkley a new contract (which hasn't been accepted). So no deliberate policy to get rid of flair players in my book.
Also, he is bringing back one former player as a backup, utility player not like Martinez with Kone, Alcaraz, Robles and McCarthy, so it's not as though he's making a habit of bringing back former players indeed, he had an agreement with Southampton not to poach them.
Our difference of opinion all hinges on whether or not Martina is "mediocre" or worse. In due course, you could well be right but I'm going to wait to pass judgment yet and I will trust Koeman meanwhile. Martina might turn out to be a good asset and may only have been a reserve at Southampton because they had some one even better. Doesn't necessarily make him a bad player.
204 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:10:54
And bloody hell, Ray, I'd just taken my last tablet!
205 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:44:13
Many a true word spoken in jest.
I think Managers take far too much credit (and blame) for a lot of these signings. Things have moved on since the days when managers were solely responsible for the coming and goings of players. They are seen just as much as business transactions as team building.
On the signing of Virgil Van Dijk.
"The Champions League had an effect on the moment of release, which we were aware of, so it was about keeping our focus and doing our due diligence before eventually getting him over the line. We've had Virgil in our system for a long time and have explored the possibility of signing him in previous windows. This year, we had a really strong opportunity to do it" – Les Reed.
206 Posted 18/07/2017 at 15:44:44
207 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:03:17
And hey, don't you just love 200 posts in less than 24 hours on a third-choice right back? Damn, this club is generating some serious interest, isn't it?
208 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:04:10
Klaassen and Koeman have absolutely no history together. Of course they are compatriots and I do believe the signing of Klaassen is approved by Koeman to say the least, maybe even initiated by him. Klaassen himself said he talked with Koeman before the move, but I also think I read somewhere that Walsh rated Klaassen highly as well.
Martina is not Dutch, he is from Curaçao, a constituent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. ;-) He is captain of the national team of Curaçao in fact.
I don't disagree with you entirely and Koeman has an elaborate history of getting players from his former clubs actually. But never to the extent of Houillier or Benitez at our neighbours. Martina is a typical example of getting in former players for squad depth. I reckon Klaassen and Schneiderlin were approved by the whole technical set-up seeing the fees involved. Not much wrong with me.
209 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:04:13
"Given Koeman's treatment of players, if the kid spoke up for himself then Honest Ron probably would do a Barkley on him."
I don't use emojis, don't believe in 'em, but if I did, I would be posting the one with the eyes rolling. About ten times. I think I just detached my own retinas on that one.
210 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:14:03
Seems I might not be the only nitpicker on here but, if you think that all players have been treated in the same proper manner, then we most certainly disagree.
212 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:30:38
213 Posted 18/07/2017 at 16:43:07
Not the slickest of man-management so far.
214 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:04:20
Coleman is out for at least half the season. Holgate was chosen before Kenny last season. And Holgate is not a very good right back. He is okay defensively but offers absolutely nothing going forward.
Kenny might have bypassed Holgate now, but I will find it hard to believe that Koeman splash £100 million in a transfer window and then plan half a season with a young and unproven Kenny.
That seems far too risky for a guy like Koeman. So I think Martina is first choice until Coleman is back.
215 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:39:52
However, it is true to say that, notwithstanding the early transfer excitement, our net spend thus far is a net zero, with about £95m coming in and the same spent. I think if we end up in that position, we will all have the right to be disappointed and that remains the case if we have to sell Barkley for £40m in order to get Sigurdsson. Still a net zero investment.
Still 3 gaps to plug for me on top of what we've got: left back cover (could be an up and coming youngster to understudy Baines), a striker (the trickiest one) and an inside forward/winger, where I'd like to see an upgrade on Mirallas. This assumes that Barkley stays and is regarded as an attacking midfielder (we have a surfeit of defensive ones).
216 Posted 18/07/2017 at 17:54:50
Of course Martina has a heavy link with the Kingdom of the Netherlands but he does not consider himself Dutch. It's like calling a Welshman English. Or to be more precise, calling a Welshman born in Liverpool English.
Again, I know I am nitpicking and that it is besides the point.
217 Posted 18/07/2017 at 18:02:01
Apart from McCarthy they were all crap, not surprisingly. Mr Productivity went back to a team that finished near the top of the table, so there is no real justification for judging Martina on that point. It might not work, but then loads haven't for many teams.
If Martina proves to be rubbish, and I think we all agree that we hope he doesn't, then saying "Don't come crying to me, I told you so" doesn't carry a lot of weight.
218 Posted 18/07/2017 at 18:08:14
It would be very interesting to see what Koeman considers his strongest starting eleven for the beginning of the season and later when the injuries have cleared.
The mind boggles at the prospect of selection even now with all the players available to him including Barkley when ''fit'' for the first Europa League game.
219 Posted 19/07/2017 at 00:27:13
The first 5 matches are high pressured matches and you need some experience to get through them. I have a funny idea that Koeman might even play 3 at the back for those big matches and use Kenny as a wing back.
221 Posted 19/07/2017 at 12:14:02
In my heart, I'm one of the wishful thinkers hoping Coleman will be back and the same as before. In my head, that Seamus Coleman is finished. After all, he suffered that injury just 4 months ago and will be 29 years old come October.
Who really believes he'll be back full-on anytime this season? I don't; not from a double leg break on a player whose game revolves around sprinting up and down the flanks over and over, game after game. Even without the leg break, Seamus has been a regular running those sprints for, what, 7 seasons now? He's getting to an age when his legs would start rebelling anyway.
Love Seamus as much as the next Evertonian. But I have to start with, "He's finished" and work my way back to thinking wishfully of his full return in the 2018-19 season.
It's looking like Koeman has decided to make-do with the trio available at right-back this season, and see how it goes. Holgate or Kenny makes the position his own, fine. In the meantime, Walsh will have his scouts on the lookout for an incoming next Summer.
222 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:13:30
Everton are going all out to break the top four; the days of sticking these kids into the first team for sentiment just to see what happens are behind us.
I'm sure that, when Jonjoe is the best player on our books in his position, he will get the game time he deserves.
223 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:27:19
I promised I would pass on his analysis of the player to TW.
224 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:36:45
Coleman was back on his feet quickly, he's been attending functions, he's been doing lots of light training, and there's no whispers of problems whatsoever.
It was a horrific injury, but perhaps it looked far worse than it is, and medical science has come such a long way now.
The problem I always foresaw was mental. Would you be prepared to dive in again knowing that if you get injured again that could be it? Would you be fully committed to a lung bursting run where an opponent is about to dive in on you? The fact that the lad is as hard as nails, and comes from a Gaelic football background where this is only a "knock" gives me a lot of hope.
Also, Seamus seems to genuinely love the club, he's clearly been touched by the affection we the fans continue to have for him; he's commented on how we still sing for him even though he's not playing, and I believe he will want to repay us.
225 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:42:48
226 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:50:36
227 Posted 19/07/2017 at 15:51:59
228 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:10:24
Nah, not having that John!!
229 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:30:02
230 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:55:22
Enjoy your vacation.
231 Posted 19/07/2017 at 16:57:43
232 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:01:11
What crime did you commit to get that punishment, John?
233 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:02:22
(Martina, not the Southampton fan.)
234 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:04:26
I failed my English test, grammatically all over the place according to the tutor.
Got away with a suspended sentence....
235 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:13:56
Harsh penalty, whatever you did! :-)
236 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:15:25
John (#227), I'm yearning for New Brighton, it's so hot here and the all-inclusive is sheer hell.
237 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:15:33
Is he the Chinese defender we are linked with on NewsNow?
238 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:17:03
I've got it in my tent.
239 Posted 19/07/2017 at 17:17:13
240 Posted 19/07/2017 at 18:04:09
The Club said the new contract was already agreed, just not signed before the injury. So they'd honor it. It was reported in here and discussed.
Good on the Club.
I'm 100% in on the hope that Seamus will be back this season at full throttle. Doubt it though, especially given what makes Coleman valuable; a relentless, sprinting, work ethic. Can't see that happening this season. Neither can you. It's simply too much to ask.
That in the context of the Club only signing a squad-filler, Martina. We'll see which one of him, Holgate, or Kenny emerges to make the position his own.
242 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:50:29
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