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Chambers eyed as Keane alternative

| Saturday, 17 June 2017  59 Comments  [Jump to last]
Everton are being linked with Arsenal defender Callum Chambers to whom they could turn should their pursuit of Michael Keane not end in success.

Burnley defender Keane is believed to be at the top of the Blues' list of central defensive targets and he remains a key objective for Messers Steve Walsh and Ronald Koeman this summer.

The Mail report that Chambers is a contingency option. The former Southampton defender hasn't quite been able to cement a first-team place at the Emirates where he faces stern competition from the likes of Laurent Koscielny, Skodran Mustafi, Per Mertesaker and Rob Holding.

Original Source: Daily Mail  
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Reader Comments (59)

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Robert Leigh
1 Posted 17/06/2017 at 08:22:28
Chambers went for £16mill (inc. add-ons) in 2014, I assume Arsenal would therefore want £20+ mill.

Haven't seen an awful lot of him, but would prefer Holgate to have a run at the right centre-back position. He seemed to play so well in a back three, so why wouldn't he be able to do it in a two?

Mike Berry
2 Posted 17/06/2017 at 08:46:19
Wenger is obsessed with buying and playing mainly French players and Chambers is far better than some people think, due to his restricted playing time it's not been shown, a good option.
Charlie Lloyd
3 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:35:21
A very promising youngster who has stalled in development. It could be down to game time and there is potential there. Does occupy the same area as Holgate though. Mainly a right centre-back or right-back.

A risk though.

John Hammond
4 Posted 17/06/2017 at 09:50:56
Surely we need to get an actual right-back in and play Holgate at centre-back. The kid's willing but can't cross to save his life.

If we're looking at centre-backs, then I'd say Boro's Gibson is a better choice than Chambers.

Gary Edwards
5 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:12:27
We have one of the best, young right-backs in Jonjoe Kenny.

Let's not forget Tyias Browning too – the lad passed on his summer break to get a big pre-season in; I like that intent – and he's a big, handy lad with good pace.

Peter Lee
6 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:17:53
We need a centre-back.

Tall(-ish)
Quick
Left-sided

If anyone doesn't meet all three criteria, move on.

Ernie Baywood
7 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:20:31
John, I don't think we've got a right back who can cross to save their life. I know Kenny put a good one in during the U20 World Cup but he spent the rest of the tournament doing a very good impersonation of Seamus.

Of course, "playing like Seamus" isn't exactly the worst criticism one could receive, and he does have time to develop the skill.

Trevor Lynes
8 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:24:58
It is at centre-back that we are needing to strengthen if we are looking at defenders. Keane would be a good option and I would have Smalling before Chambers as an option. He is tall and has good experience in the Premier League.

What we really need urgently though is strikers to replace Lukaku if he moves away. We have no-one at the club who can lead the line and score frequently.We need some top quality up front otherwise we will struggle. No team will crack that top six without players who know where the goals are. We seem to be flooding the squad with midfielders and what we need is strength up front and out wide.

If Bolasie comes back firing, then he will be a big asset this season IMO. But we need two strikers and an attacking number 10 who has vision and top ball control. Until we get those players on board, we will be treading water at best.

John Audsley
9 Posted 17/06/2017 at 10:37:19
People keep saying we need a right-back, why?

We have a Kenny, Connolly and Holgate to name just 3 players who can play in that position till Coleman is fit.

We need Kenny to play as our No 2.

Andrew Keatley
10 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:12:05
And Gethin Jones. He was on loan at Barnsley and recently received a call-up to the Wales international squad. Not sure he'll be knocking too hard on the first-team door, or whether he'll be off on loan again this season, but he's another option.
Gareth Clark
11 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:22:20
I agree that we don't need anyone else at right-back!

Kenny
Holgate
Jones
Connolly
Browning

Lots of options!

Chambers could be a very decent option, but Keane is the much preferred choice!

Keane and Tah or Romagnoli would be the perfect two to get in, in my opinion!

Trevor Lynes
12 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:30:33
We continue to be linked with hordes of players of variable quality but so far nothing has been happening about Lukaku or Barkley. If we do not get the money we want for big Rom then perhaps he will be trotting out for us next season after all... :)If he remains and plays ahead of Klaassen and Bolasie plus a midfield schemer like Borozovic, who also scores goals, then what a bumper present that would be for our starving fans. We can offload Barkley, McCarthy and any others who can be replaced without a backward glance.Lukaku is head and shoulders above any of the strikers we are being linked with. If Chelsea do come for him then we should insist on a player exchange, eg, Batshuayi, Traore or Willian plus money.
Tom Bowers
13 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:35:38
Not to ''keen'' on Chambers. I would prefer Keane!
Bill Gienapp
14 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:45:32
Let's just keep it simple and get Keane signed, please. With Man Utd seemingly out of the running, there's no reason we can't get a deal done.
Laurie Hartley
15 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:49:27
Gary (#5) – I seem to recall reading before his injury that Tyias Browning was the best "one on one" defender at the club. As I recall he played really well in a derby at Goodison. I have a gut feeling that Koeman likes him; if so we could see more of him next season.

Peter (#6) – I agree with your selection criteria but there aren't too many of them knocking about. One lad who is left footed and quickish is Nathan Aker who was recalled from Watford to Chelsea at the end of last season. Not very tall for a centre-half but very good in the air and a good footballer. He would be the one I'd go for.

Jim Knightley
16 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:50:55
Chambers can play centre-back – he was brought as one and was superb at centre-back for Boro this season, despite their struggles. He was just shifted there when injuries necessitated it. He could be a back up right back but principally a centre-back.

Chambers was very nervy at Arsenal – a couple of bad games when thrown into an injury plagued defence killed his confidence but he has shown his ability and potential this season. I wouldn't be adverse to this. Like Keane, he has performed in a deeper back line (easier for defenders than some of the more attacking set ups, such as at Arsenal).

I'd be happy with either, but would prefer Keane.

James Stewart
17 Posted 17/06/2017 at 11:52:51
No, no, no. Chambers is god awful! Mr Calamity.
Jay Wood
18 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:13:20
Ernie @ 7.

"I don't think we've got a right back who can cross to save their life. I know Kenny put a good one in during the U20 World Cup but he spent the rest of the tournament doing a very good impersonation of Seamus."

Two things. You seem to imply Seamus is poor to the point of useless with his crossing into the opposition penalty area. Wrong! I'm not saying he always gets it right, but he most certainly does not always get it wrong as you seem to be suggesting.

Secondly, to extend that criticism to Kenny based on the recent U-20 World Cup is, I have to say, total bollocks!

I watched every minute of every England game. Jonjoe was one of THE standout talents in the entire tournament.

Defensively, offensively, he proved to be a highly effective, high octane player getting up and down his flank all game, each and every game.

His delivery into the penalty area was supreme. He is not a head down, hit-and-hope crosser of a ball. The variation of his passing into the penalty area was excellent.

Sometimes the ball was crossed aerially to the near or far post or centre of goal. Other times it was played in flat and sharp to a player's feet. Of the top of my head, 3 of his contributions led to goals in the competition.

Do you not recall Jonjoe's brief sub appearance at Swansea where the whole team was dire? In the short time he was on the pitch for the first time in the game he delivered 2-3 quality crosses into the box, putting his senior colleagues to shame.

Kenny delivered one good cross in the 6 games he played at the U-20 World Cup? I suggest you take another look.

You've called this one wrong, Ernie. Badly.

Nigel Munford
19 Posted 17/06/2017 at 12:47:10
Can't we have both Keane and Chambers as we are fighting on more than one front this next season, we are going to need some depth.
Charlie Lloyd
20 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:16:06
Jim @15,

It appears you saw more of Chambers at Boro than me so I can't offer a counter judgment to yours but thanks for sharing it.

I agree with most here. I wanted someone that bit more established for centre-back. Keane is most people's preferred choice and I've not watched him throughout many games but, from what I've seen, he rarely outshone Mee who played on the left side of centre-back. Keane was very steady in his England debut though. Only one game but played well.

Also, I agree with the positive comments on Kenny. Bags of potential there. Arguably best England U20 on show. Plus I've seen enough of him to know he can put in a cross. I'd rather Kenny at right-back than Holgate, Chambers, Browning, or even Martina.

Kieran Kinsella
21 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:39:47
Chambers is a young guy who may or may not become a good centre-bak. Isn't that what Holgate is? And Galloway?
Steve Ferns
22 Posted 17/06/2017 at 13:46:00
Agreed, Kieran.
Dave Abrahams
23 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:02:18
Jay (#17), excellent post. I agree with every word, Jonjoe Kenny is ready and has been, for the last 12 months at least, to play at right-back in Everton's team next season.
Geoff Lambert
24 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:12:26
That's a brave statement, Dave! I think he needs to be brought in a little at a time. I don't think you can say that he has been tested at the highest level to warrant an instant call to the first team.
Gavin Johnson
25 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:22:17
Signing Micheal Keane should be our next priority, but we should also consider signing Chambers if Koeman is willing to let Jags leave on a nominal fee this summer.

Chambers is young, strong and is equally adapt at playing at right-back so would give us ample cover there, along with Jonjoe until Coleman's fit again. My only criticism of Chambers is that he isn't the quickest, but neither is Harry Maguire and people have been swooning over him for months.

If we signed Chambers, we wouldn't have to sign Cuco Martina either. I don't think many people are sold on Martina coming in and see him only as a waste of wages and someone who would block Jonjoe Kenny's development.

We also don't know how long it will be before Funes Mori is playing again, and if he has a long term future at the club. So I think it's feasible to buy both Keane and Callum Chambers.

Dave Abrahams
26 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:24:54
Geoff (#23) I really think I'm being realistic rather than brave, I have watched him since he was 16, from the youths to the first eleven and would have no hesitation in starting Jonjoe against Stoke City in the first league game of next season.

Tom Davies wasn't tested when he was played last season, many players were not tested when they were given a start going back to Colin Harvey in 1963 versus Inter Milan in the European Cup; both Davis and Harvey were younger than Kenny.

Geoff, it's an old saying, but true: "If you are good enough, you are old enough" – and to me, Jonjoe, is more than ready to start for The Blues.

Terry Downes
27 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:38:00
Looks like Galloway is a forgotten man on here? Let's hope he at least get a chance to prove his worth...
Ernie Baywood
28 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:41:27
Jay (#17)... and I'll tell you that you've called it completely wrong.

"His delivery into the penalty area was supreme."

That's a massive overstatement about a young man who stuck a few in the crowd!

He's many things, and his performances were excellent, but a supreme crosser of a football he isn't. At least not yet.

I probably shouldn't have to write the next bit but it's 2017 and this is the internet so I'll clarify the things that I'm not saying. I'm not saying he's not a good player and I'm not saying he can't put a ball in the box. I'm saying he's not someone who is notable for their ability to cross a ball.

Chris Williams
29 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:42:28
I suspect Kenny would have started in the last couple of games of the season if he wasn't away with the U20 squad.
Jim Knightley
30 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:42:59
I think starting someone like Kenny is very much dependent on 1) the state of the team at the time; and 2) the confidence of the player.

Chambers is a great example of this. He was hung out to dry in a Swansea game – Montero isolated and destroyed him, and he lost confidence for a good year afterwards... He needed the Boro move to kick start him. Others excel from the get go, and the playing time improves them.

I'd personally like to see Holgate begin the season, and Kenny bedded in in the cup competitions, in view of our horrific start. But I think it would be a legitimate move on Koeman's part to not buy another right back, especially if Coleman's recovery is on track.

Kenny has impressed, but we will not know how ready he is until he gets a run of senior games. But the only way to find out is to try him. I think we can trust Koeman in that respect, who, much like Martinez before him, is willing to give youth players a chance.

Jay Wood
31 Posted 17/06/2017 at 14:56:10
I'm with you, Dave. I'd rather give game time to Jonjoe than sign a not-particular-good seasoned pro like Cuco Martina from Southampton as cover for Seamus.

Every single game at the U-20 World Cup, the commentators never failed to be impressed by Kenny. At his ability. His stamina. His passing. His crossing. His interplay with others. His game reading. And not least of all, his 'cuteness'.

He is a canny little bugger who already appears to have an old head on young shoulders. Capable of leaving one on a player, or taking one for the team rather than let a player run free on goal.

As for Callum Chambers, the subject of this thread, I recall how soon after his transfer from Southampton to Arsenal he almost immediately was promoted to – and played in place of the injured John Stones – for England.

He looked hopelessly out of his depth, IMO. An example of a player being selected on the back of the club he played for, rather than actual ability.

Check out his career stats. In his Premier League debut season with the Saints in 2013-14 he played 22 PL games for them. Following his transfer to the Arse, in 2014-15 he played 23 games. 2015-16 just 12 games. Last season he was loaned out to the 'Boro and played 24 games.

Do you consider that an upward or downward trajectory?

As Kieran Kinsella @ 20 notes: "Chambers is a young guy who may or may not become a good centre-back. Isn't that what Holgate is? And Galloway?"

To those names you can these players already at Everton: Tyias Browning, Matthew Pennington and even Matty Foulds and Morgan Feeney from the successful U-23 team.

We need more centre-back cover, someone (or two!) who can be nailed on starters. Callum Chambers ain't that.

Brian Cleveland
32 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:18:15
Jay (#17), Ernie (#27)

I also watched every minute, and I can say that Kenny got a lot more right than he got wrong in terms of crossing (but in terms of his overall game, he was excellent throughout the tournament... he was consistent, something that is often difficult to attain, and especially from someone of that age).

Ernie, to say he "stuck a few in the crowd" would be a bit harsh, many times they were quite accurate crosses/passes meant for someone specific, and sure yeah, sometimes he put one in a general area when the box was full, who doesn't?

And you said "he's not someone who is notable for their ability to cross a ball". You're right, he's noted for being a defender, but I did "note" that his passing and crossing in general were pretty good, so now, as far as I'm concerned he IS notable for his ability to cross, he showed me there is more to his game...

I've mentioned somewhere before, I think he is a better bet in that position than Holgate. Perhaps Koeman at the moment thinks Holgate is a better defender, which is what the position is meant to be after all. But when looking for a substitute for Seamus, I'd say Kenny is a lot closer to fitting the bill.

Now back on track, as far as Chambers goes, he looked fab when he came on to the scene but has gone a bit backwards, perhaps lack of opportunity, I don't know, but I wouldn't be that averse to this one. However, I think we lack a commander in that area with Jags now almost done, Williams not as sure as he was at Swansea and Funes Mori does not fill me with confidence at all. That leaves us with youngsters, and Chambers or Keane both also come into that category of youngster.

We need someone with the stature of a Chiellini to Marshall the defence and frighten the be-Jezus out of attackers! Not sure who that would be but someone of that ilk.

Brian Cleveland
33 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:21:31
Jay (#30), looks like we're singing from the same hymn sheet; we were writing at the same time it seems.

In summary: Kenny looks a good prospect and perhaps ready for more action. Centre-back: We need experience as we already have promising youngsters.

Jay Wood
34 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:22:27
Ernie @ 27.

Allow me to correct (again!) your latest post.

Did I accuse you of saying he's not a good player? Nope!

Did you say he can't put a ball in the box? Yes, you did. In your original post you stated:

"I don't think we've got a right back who can cross to save their life. I know Kenny put a good one in during the U20 World Cup but he spent the rest of the tournament doing a very good impersonation of Seamus."

That is explicitly stating that Kenny put just one good cross in in six games. It also implies (as you now explicitly say in your 2nd post) that he "stuck a few in the crowd!" Indeed, your original post strongly infers that's all he does with the majority of his delivery into the opposition penalty area.

You try to justify your position with a bizarre claim that all you are saying is "he's not someone who is notable for their ability to cross a ball."

And . why should he be? We're not talking David Beckham here. His 'day job' is defending. He does that very well. But he is also very good at t'other end of the pitch as well.

To denigrate as you do his clearly (to me and others, at least) outstanding ability to deliver a variety of dangerous passes (not just head-down, hit-and-high aerial crosses) into the opposition penalty area is to do the player a great disservice.

Over 6 games at one of FIFA's Blue Riband events, the U20 World Cup, Jonjoe Kenny had an outstanding tournament. One aspect of many of his fine attributes that he displayed was his passing and crossing ability into the opposition's penalty area.

You stand by your position, Ernie. I'll stand by mine:

Keeny's delivery into the penalty area in Korea was supreme.

Mike Gaynes
35 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:39:22
Jay (#30):

"Every single game at the U-20 World Cup... " etc etc.

I still have those games on my video recorder, and when it comes to Kenny's crossing, you're wrong and Ernie is right.

The announcers (and me) were impressed by every aspect of his game except his crossing. When he put the ball in the air, he simply wasn't accurate. Never once put the ball on his target's head. He is indeed sharp and intelligent with his passing into the box on the ground, but his aerial crosses need a lot of work.

Regarding Chambers, I agree with you, and agree with you and Kieran also that our young lads deserve a shot. I think Holgate is ready for his chance. When I watched Pennington this spring at Goodison (God, I love saying that!!!) he clearly wasn't ready just yet. Galloway I've never seen at centre-back, only at left-back. Browning I haven't seen enough of to judge.

For a centre-back alternative to Keane, I'm going to put in the same name I always do... Steve Cook from Bournemouth. One of the most powerful players in the world in the air, led all European leagues in headed clearances, and we need that. Also extremely smart positionally, always in the right place. Not especially quick, but then neither is Keane.

Nigel Munford
36 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:40:19
Oh and Jay, if he'd been playing for Liverpool and not Everton, he'd have got Player of the Tournament as well, I reckon.
Alan J Thompson
37 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:41:01
I'm never keen on managers who bring in players they have previously managed. If some of these rumours are true, we could end up with Stekelenburg, Schneiderlin, Martina and Chambers.
Ernie Baywood
38 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:48:04
The original comment was in reply to an earlier statement about Holgate. It also featured italics. You may or may not read it slightly differently in context.

You think I don't realise a footballer at a Premier League club can kick a ball? Okay, you win, I'm bored of you.

Donald Neville
39 Posted 17/06/2017 at 15:57:35
For me it depends on where Koeman wants Holgate. If Holgate is gonna be the right-back, then yeah move for a centre-back. If not then look for a decent right-back to at least challenge Coleman, fill in for Coleman, and help push the youngsters.

A vet would be preferred for me in that position as he could bring along the youth.What about Cameron Carter Vickers from Spurs? Young and hungry, wants to play for the US Men's team.

Jay Wood
40 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:19:20
Sorry Mike, but I'll dispute the quality of Kenny's delivery into the opposition penalty area with you all day long.

I'm glad to see, like me, you acknowledge "He is indeed sharp and intelligent with his passing into the box on the ground."

Ernie's position is that Kenny puts more into the stand than into dangerous areas with his delivery. I maintain that is a nonsense claim.

I also dispute your view that Kenny's crossing of the ball in the air "simply wasn't accurate. Never once put the ball on his target's head."

NEVER?! Not ONCE Mike?! That is patently untrue! That is getting into Ernie-like realms that Kenny only put in one good cross in six games!

Aerial crossing of the ball is always higher risk, lower return because it is easier to defend. Kenny clearly demonstrates the ability to not merely hit and hope with such crosses as many overlapping full backs tend to deliver, he has lovely foot shape when striking the ball that can go near or far post or centre of goal. Such is the quality of his delivery it causes havoc around the opposition goal, regardless of if your own player gets his head on it first or not.

As I stated from the off when contesting Ernie's claims, I evaluate all Kenny's passing-crossing into the oppositions box.

Part of the 'cuteness' in Kenny's game that I referred to is that when he gets to the sharp end of the pitch the opposition do not know what he will do with the ball. Why? Because they doknow he is capable of near-far post or central aerial delivery of the ball, or deadly accurate cut backs or slip ins to unbalance and unlock a defence.

Answer me this, Mike: during the tournament, how many deliveries into the opposition area from Kenny did you see sailing woefully over players heads, directly into touch or poorly executed from a good position?

So few, they are hard to recall, I would wager. Now recall the live games you recently enjoyed in your pilgrimage to Goodison Park. How many times did you groan with the crowd as Everton again worked a good position down either flank, only to see the opening wasted with poor delivery into the danger zone?

I would again wager you saw more hapless delivery in the (2? 3?) games you saw than Kenny delivered across 6 games at a major tournament.

I predict if he continues the development he has shown to date, Kenny will be talked of in Baines territory for the number of goals assists he contributes.

Rick Pattinson
41 Posted 17/06/2017 at 16:21:35
We need to find a good partnership in central defence. A Weir - Stubbs type partnership.
Mike Gaynes
42 Posted 17/06/2017 at 17:55:42
Jay (#43), mate, I'm sitting here looking at the video. I watched and recorded the England U20 games not because I had much interest in the tournament (especially after the US was knocked out), but because I wanted to take notes on our young guys Kenny, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin and Dowell.

I kept track of what they did. And yes, I saw multiple of crosses from Kenny, from good positions, with and without pressure, that were poorly executed – not "sailing into touch" but overhit, underhit or pulled back behind the forward. And, like Ernie, I saw exactly one cross in the air in six games that he put right on target.

(Just as an aside, how do you know that opponents "Do know he is capable of near-far post or central aerial delivery of the ball, or deadly accurate cut backs or slip ins to unbalance and unlock a defence."? Have you spoken with any of them or heard interviews to that effect? Or are you relying on some mysterious gift of telepathy?)

And actually, on my trip to Goodison, I saw excellent, accurate crosses in the air from Baines, Barkley, Schneiderlin and Mirallas. Of course there were groaners, but that's standard. True crossing artistry from fullbacks, like Baines once had, is pretty rare. Coleman's accuracy rate this season was 18%.

I'm not criticizing Kenny... he's a very good passer on the ground, like Seamus. But your belief that he's some kind of foot-shaping craftsman with aerial crosses is simply not supported by the video evidence of the U20 tournament. Come on over to the beach and watch the games with me again... or just pull up the replays online. They must be somewhere on the web, right?

Paul Kossoff
43 Posted 17/06/2017 at 17:57:08
Everton are reportedly interested in sealing a transfer for out-of-favour Arsenal defender Calum Chambers this summer as the Gunners prepare to let him leave permanently.

The England international has struggled to fulfil his potential at the Emirates Stadium, and spent the 2016-17 season out on loan with relegated Middlesbrough.

Arsenal's preference remains for the 22-year-old to go out on loan again, but Everton could be ready to pay up for him as they eye a new centre-back for next season.

Mike Gaynes
44 Posted 17/06/2017 at 17:59:05
By the way, Holgate's cross accuracy is 13%. That's the worst I've seen.
Jay Wood
45 Posted 17/06/2017 at 18:47:02
Mike @ 46.

I also ran a quick (not, I admit, a deep) analysis of the full 90 minutes of all 6 games check on Kenny's delivery into the penalty area.

I admit to stopping my search once I saw 3 aerial crosses from the lad cause havoc in the opposition defence. That is not including his even deadlier delivery with his ground passing, on which we both apparently agree. Those 3 examples, which I've seen again with my own eyes this very morning, negates once again your repeated claim that Kenny made only one effective aerial cross in 6 games in Korea.

Unlike yourself or Ernie, I have not made exaggerated claims or put a numerical number or percentage on Kenny's success or failure rate with his crossing. Both of you did. Both of your claims are simply wrong. I've checked evidence in the last few hours to confirm my memory is not playing tricks with me.

As for your 'aside', a bit petulant and childish from you, Mike. I don't expect that from you. No recourse to telepathy or bottomless pockets on my part to travel to and interview every player at the tournament to question how well they know Kenny's game.

If lay supporters know, for example, to stop Lukaku turning and running at you and to try and keep him on his right side, rather than his left side, you greatly reduce his threat, I'm pretty damn sure the coaching staff and other professionals are also aware of it and prepare their teams accordingly.

England were playing in the U20 World Cup FFS! Do you not think the respective coaching staff and the players themselves were not capable of simple and deep analysis of their upcoming opponents and sought to negate them?

Did you not see in both the semi-final and the final against Italy and Venezuela respectively, players were deployed to engage and prevent Kenny from venturing too far upfield because they were aware of the threat he carries in the final third of the pitch? Because I did, without resorting to telepathy or having direct access to tournament players or coaching staff. Italy succeeded for one half, but eventually lost out as the Kenny-Ojo (when he came on for Dowell) axis grew in influence and threat.

And thank you for acknowledging the obvious: in any and every game there is always likely to be 'groaners', stray crosses poorly delivered. To quote yourself: "That's standard."

I can honestly say I saw more groaners in yesterday's Sweden-England U-21 game than I saw from Kenny across 6 games in Korea.

I'm happy to repeat, if Kenny can continue the upward trajectory (and no! That is not a reference to his 'skied' crosses!) he has shown in his career to date, I foresee him reaching Baines' territory for his assists from his excellent full range of passing and delivery in the crucial final third of the pitch.

And thanks for the invite to the beach Mike, but I've got an encounter of swimming with piranhas in a tributary of the Amazon to get to! I kid you not!

Health!

Denis Richardson
46 Posted 17/06/2017 at 20:50:07
Chambers would be an ok but not wow signing as we have a few youngsters who play centre-back or right-back coming through.

What we don't have is a proper replacement for Baines.

I would love us to sign a centre-back who can also play left-back... a bit like Lescott a few years ago. Not sure many decent ones exist admittedly.

Baines is still okay but cant see him managing 50+ games next season.

Mike Gaynes
47 Posted 17/06/2017 at 21:29:43
Jay, sorry mate, but you can't credit those crosses for the havoc in the defense. I saw those plays too, and they were defensive muckups the likes of which you see all the time in U20s.

A high cross hit too low that a defender makes hash of and gifts to the opposing striker is not an example of a quality delivery. Experienced pros would have cleared them with ease.

If the mood strikes before you head off to commune with the crocs in the Amazon, go through those games as I did and see if you can cite any examples of an accurate aerial cross from Kenny – not hit-and-hope creating defensive errors, but actually on target to a teammate in the box.

I saw exactly one in six games, driven into Solanke's chest. Nothing onto anybody's head for a goal attempt. Not once. If you see any, by all means share.

Vijay Nair
48 Posted 18/06/2017 at 04:49:08
Denis, we already have one... his name is Brendan Galloway.
Denis Richardson
49 Posted 18/06/2017 at 14:21:44
True Vijay. Brendan didn't look too out of place when he covered for Baines a while back. His loan to WBA was a bit of a waste of time in the end, hopefully hasn't set him back too much.

He's not really an out-and-out left-back though and I'm not sure how much longer Baines can keep going. But good point made, I forgot about young Brendan.

Paul Ferry
50 Posted 18/06/2017 at 14:26:30
Can't believe this debate on here about whether Kenny can cross or not. A certain Mr Wood has a top-drawer knack of going on and on and on and on and on about something after he has turned a thread into something it wasn't.
Derek Thomas
51 Posted 18/06/2017 at 14:43:31
I don't think Chambers is any better or worse at the moment than anyone of 3, or 4 'youngsters' we already have. Nobody can say just how good any of them will be in the future... but we're looking at 6 to 8 weeks and/or months here, not years.

£20M for Chambers? why bother... spend it on somebody else... or another position.

Vijay Nair
52 Posted 18/06/2017 at 15:10:42
I know it's a longshot as he has yet to prove otherwise, but I'm hoping we will see Luke Garbutt come good as well.
Clive Rogers
53 Posted 18/06/2017 at 15:21:38
Vijay, can't see that happening as he lost his place at Wigan. They decided he couldn't defend.
David Currie
54 Posted 18/06/2017 at 23:42:12
Kenny is ready for the first team and I would like to see Holgate given a chance at center-back. No to Chambers and yes for Keane. Left back is also a position we need to strengthen.
Raymond Fox
55 Posted 19/06/2017 at 00:24:14
We have a handful of young defenders waiting to step up; buying the likes of Chambers is a cop-out for me. No point of having a youth system if you are afraid to play them.

We also have an Argentinian defender who has become a forgotten man on here.

Albert Perkins
56 Posted 19/06/2017 at 00:49:22
I understand the reasoning to back our youngsters, however, I think Koeman realizes this is a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to buy these ready-for-first-team players before the prices really go through the roof.

Dembele next. Spend all the Lukaku money on him, and more if need be.

What an amazing young team this would be.

Jay Wood
57 Posted 19/06/2017 at 17:21:55
Mike @ 47.

Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. June is a particularly frantic month in Brazil, some Saint's festival every weekend. And as you might appreciate, Brazilians party hard: from sun down (BOO!) to sun up (HISS!). Thought you'd appreciate the pantomime booing of two of nature's wonderful daily events. So it was a pretty heavy weekend.

And I went swimming with piranhas, not crocs. I find it good training for posting on TW. Actually, there are not crocs, but jacare - a type of alligator - in the waters too. Although some grew into big mothers, nothing like the African croc or the Aussie salties, I'm glad to say.

But I digress. To answer your latest post.

I am flattered Mike that in your attempt to prove me 'wrong' that you replayed every minute of all SEVEN games England played in the tournament (you and I both mistakenly said 6 games). I forgot the 3rd group game against hosts Korea. You know, the game Dowell and Kenny showed near telepathic (spooky, eh?) understanding in their interplay, ending with Kenny cutting the ball back perfectly to Dowell to stride on to and place a first time strike past the keeper for the only and winning goal.

I am also impressed that, between my original post in this thread challenging Ernie's take on Kenny's crossing abilities, and your own first post - a time lapse of 3h 30m - you took the time out to view all 10h 30m of England's 7 games to arrive at the conclusions you did. That's generously presuming, of course, you saw my originally post immediately I posted it and so went directly to work viewing your recorded videos. I'm possibly doing you a disservice. You might have achieved the astonishing feat in even less time!

The full 3h 30m or not, that constitutes amazing time warping skills that Dr. Who in his Tardis or Hermione Granger with her Time Turner in Harry Potter's Prisoner of Azkaban would be proud of.

And you did all this whilst bronzing yourself at the beach. Truly impressive!

Of course, the likelihood is that you are telling little porkies (porkies=pork pies=lies; touch of Cockney Rhyming slang you may or may not be familiar with). That you are not really a Time Lord and that you didn't replay and review every minute of all seven games to make the claims you did.

Rather, your claims are based - like others in this thread who watched the games live - on your personal recall and memory of events.

On that basis, I am happy to stand by my original (and subsequent) claims I made about Jonjoe Kenny's crossing and passing skills at the sharp end of the pitch.

I won't be going to the same lengths as you claimed you did by seeking out, replaying and registering every play that proves/disproves your/my stated positions.

As you have already done so, it should be easy for you to post up a minuted, game-by-game breakdown backing up your claims.

Should make for a fun read.

*****

And as for YOU, Paul 'the feral' Ferry @50, are you given to grinding your teeth much in your sleep, so angst and troubled as you appear to be by what individuals posts here on TW?

I love the delicious irony that you take time out to ridicule a poster for his contribution ON TOPIC on the thread without yourself touching on the main, or sub-topics that invariably arise on many a thread.

Your contribution amounts to the square sum of Porthcrawl. For someone who likes to promote himself as some well-read, cultured, socially liberal intellectual, your posts under the harsh spotlight of the Open Forum tend to be incredible trite and reactive, just a bleat on what and how individual posters have the temerity to post as they do which doesn't conform to your own insular view.

There is a fundamental difference in how I post compared to you. I post exclusively here on the Open Forum, face to face, in the open, full transparency.

Unlike you, I have never and never will spend endless hours on the subterranean Offside Forum, posting unseen and unheard in a sly, snide and cowardly manner, berating and ridiculing posts and posters, totally unbeknown to them.

Each to their own. Me? If that makes me as diametrically opposed to you as it is possible to be, I will happily celebrate the fact.

Happy gnashing of teeth!

Eddie Dunn
58 Posted 20/06/2017 at 14:37:30
Chambers may have improved but, when I watched his early games for Arsenal, I was horrified at how crap he was.
Liam Reilly
59 Posted 20/06/2017 at 18:30:31
You guys should just call it a draw.

Holgate for me is just not a right back and he'll likely not start the next England game after been hooked at half time in the last one (probably for his consistently awful crossing).

Kenny and Pennington are unproven and can only be expected to fill gaps when required or play cameos. I suspect Browning will go on loan, so that leaves us short but, for £20M, there's got to be better than Chambers.

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