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| Thursday, 01 January 1970  458 Comments  [Jump to last]
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Reader Comments (458)

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Brian Williams
1 Posted 11/07/2017 at 18:53:18
That's okay. Offer, if indeed we are interested, £32m and leave it at that.
Geoff Lambert
2 Posted 11/07/2017 at 18:53:25
£50M!!!!! £35M tops.

Next!

Brian Williams
3 Posted 11/07/2017 at 18:56:18
Ooh Geoff you scattercash you!!
Derek Knox
4 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:03:46
I believe we could get James Rodriguez (Real Madrid) for ~£30M, so Swansea may price themselves beyond the reach of any clubs.

The only thing that confuses me there is why Real are prepared to let him go!

Kunal Desai
5 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:04:39
I thought this deal was done and dusted this week, Geoff?
Geoff Lambert
6 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:09:51
So did we, Kunal!!!
Brian Williams
7 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:11:10
James Rodriguez has gone to Bayern on a 2-year loan deal.
Geoff Lambert
8 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:11:29
Derek (#4) I think James Rodriguez has gone on loan to Bayern.
Steven Scaffardi
9 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:35:24
I can't imagine us paying £50m for Sigurdsson but what if Barkley was part of that deal? We will never get £50m for Barkley either, but has he played himself into a position where he'll have very little game time at Everton next season (if he stays)?

And if a move to a Spurs or Arsenal doesn't materialise, then Swansea could start to appeal. He'd be the main man, wouldn't have to uproot home and Swansea get a very good replacement.

We get Sig for £25m-£30m with Ross going the other way. In theory, it's a great place for him to rebuild his career whereas I can't seem him getting loads of game time in London.

One or two good seasons and he gets his dream move to a bigger club, and the way they play suits him. Just a thought, but could please all parties, even if we have to wait it out until deadline day.

Tanvir Akram
10 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:35:53
Can we offer them McCarthy and Niasse?
Chris Gould
11 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:38:38
These prices are getting beyond absurd. We need to look abroad as all Premier League clubs have money to spend and no need to sell. Sigurdsson will have to agitate for a move and if he won't do that then we need to look elsewhere. Shame, as I think he is a big part of Ron's masterplan.

Rodriguez has gone on a 2-year loan with an option to buy for £30 million. How on earth could Sigurdsson be worth £50 million? We aren't blameless as we slapped a ridiculous £50 million price tag on Ross who only has a year left on his contract. We don't really have a leg to stand on when arguing that Sig isn't worth that.

Scott Bosworth
12 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:39:19
Everton couldn't have gotten James Rodriguez for £30M, because we can't offer Champions League football. Same reason we couldn't have kept Lukaku even if we had offered him identical wages as Man Utd. You want to win/keep big boys, you have to either offer (a) more than money, or (b) so much more money that it's silly to consider.
Chris Gould
13 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:41:58
I agree that we had absolutely zero chance of getting Rodriguez, but if he has gone with an option to buy for £30 million then it's hard to argue that Sig is worth £50 million.
Gavin Johnson
14 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:42:47
Time to move onto new targets. I won't be happy if we end up paying £50m for Sigurdsson.
Kunal Desai
15 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:46:15
Steve Walsh needs to pull out another one or two gems like Sandro from Europe. I certainly think we could get two top quality signings for £50 million. Need to move on from Sigurdsson if Swansea want an absurd fee.
Brian Harrison
16 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:49:11
He wasn't even worth £30 million, I hope whoever was pushing for Sigurdsson realizes its over. I will say good on the lad as he hasn't said he has wanted to leave in quite the reverse he is happy there.
Mark Wynne
17 Posted 11/07/2017 at 19:51:10
Well, we reportedly put a £50mil tag on Barkley, so the only sure thing is that the fees are crazy. I'd personally go for it as I think he brings proven quality.
Bill Gienapp
18 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:00:47
I'd love to get Sigurdsson, but agree – £35-million should be the absolute max. Normally, I'd hope the £50-million price tag was a bit of posturing on Swansea's part, but if they've already thrown a £40-million bid back in Leicester's face... forget it.

Unfortunately, I also don't see Sigurdsson agitating for a move. Icelandic dudes are far too chill for that.

Mike Berry
19 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:14:55
Crazy money which Everton will not stump up. I am sure there are other targets at half that price.
Mike Keating
20 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:15:27
Good.

They Just priced him out of a market where there isn't a bunch of clubs queuing up. Move on or get Barkley playing the part...

For what it's worth, I think Rooney can fill the space.

John Malone
21 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:32:55
I'd love Sigurdsson but £50 mill should get you two top class players off the continent!

You can't tell me there isn't other quality midfielders out there who can provide assists and chip in with goals!

John Malone
22 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:35:59
Emil Fosberg got the most assists in the Bundesliga above the likes of Dembele of Dortmund and Ribery of Munich – surely he would be worth a punt!
Julian Exshaw
23 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:37:32
£50 Million!!!! Avoid at all costs. It's also an area where we seem to have depth.

Why has the whole situation with Barkley gone quiet? I hope he stays. Left-sided winger/ midfielder should be our priority now. Baines needs support out there.

Drew Shortis
24 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:37:54
I think this one could drag on for a while. I believe Sigurdsson would be an excellent addition to the squad and if we have the money then we should get it done. If however we don't want to be ripped off, a la Man Utd, then we may be better off looking abroad where most clubs aren't wallowing in bumper TV money.

If you want quality players with Premier League experience then you have to pay a hefty premium. I'm sure Walsh could track down a few suitable prospects, but something tells me we're determined to hit the ground running this season and an eye-watering bid for Siggy will come in eventually.

Mike Allen
25 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:40:43
Yes, overpriced; however, if we rate Barkley at £50M, Sigurdsson could be a steal.
Ray Smith
26 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:41:43
Big fish small pond.

If Gylfi really wants to progrsss his career time to move on.

That said if Ross is priced at £50m let's do a straight swap, or Ross plus £5m.

Surely in this inflated day and age that's a fair deal?

Kim Vivian
27 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:43:37
He's not £50m good. Losing themselves some respect here, the Swans.

I like John Malone's shout, or indeed Mike Keating's – get Ross wired.

Steven Telford
28 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:46:03
Play it cool, as people said, £35M tops, and if the answer is no, let the player agitate for move and come back in then, if not, let it be.

The new arrivals need some time to gel, and Koeman has to try out a few combinations to find his best 11. One of the big attractions of Everton over the clubs above us is, you'd be more likely to get game time rather than be swallowed up in a squad rotation system (eg, that was key in us getting Sandro). Sigurdsson is the sort of guy who (especially after his time at Spurs) would be sensitive to that, but if we progress, that tradeoff will get naturally diluted, and balanced will somehow need to sought in order to keep us attractive to the sort of hungry players we want (as opposed to pure money mercenaries).

Let's not get too carried away too early and over stock to the point where we lose that attraction too early (at the wrong stage) in our new project. Patience is a lost commodity in today's football market, but there are a fair few legends that would not have been legends had patience not been afforded to them (especially true in management).

I still think Sigurdsson would be a good addition and hope he arrives, but am not going to be overly disappointed when it doesn't happen.

Ray Smith
29 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:48:39
Not disagreeing with any of the above comments.

However, in this day and age anything under £35m is standing still, we need to push on to achieve Champions League/top 4.

Don't absolutely subscribe to this philosophy, however, that's the nature of the current climate.

Join the race (with financial reservations) or be left behind.

Kristian Boyce
30 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:56:59
Interesting seeing Paul Clements comment saying if Sigurdsson leaves, it will be on the club's terms. Reading a little deeper into what he's saying, I think he's already resigned in losing him:

“I don't have any news on Gylfi. All that I can say is that he has come back for pre-season training looking very motivated.

“He is training hard and straightaway he is at the top of all the statistics physically.

“I am planning for him to be here, but there is clearly some very strong interest in him. We will have to see what happens.”

“Gylfi has been an excellent player here. He has three years on his contract and if any business is going to be done, it will be done on the terms we want.

“The club recognised his contribution by giving him an extended contract last season. He was happy to stay on here.

“At the moment he is a Swansea player and we have to carry on looking at it that way.”


Peter Laing
31 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:57:25
At this kind of money is Sirgurdsson really that much of an improvement on Ross Barkley? It's hard to know what the situation is with Ross and the reasons for the current contract impasse. The longer the delay the more I feel that Barkley is keeping his options open knowing that Everton are looking to replace him.

Does he really want to sign an extension then sit on the bench? If Barkley signs I would be using the £50 million for other areas of the team – left-back, centre-half and a striker. Or maybe in this brave new world money is really not a problem for Moshiri and if that's the case then Gylfi it is at £50 million.

Anthony Dwyer
32 Posted 11/07/2017 at 20:59:45
Sigurdsson's a good player but you can't pay anything more than £30m for him.

Look elsewhere: William (Chelsea), Marhez (Leicester), Kovacic (Real Madrid), to name three.

Plenty of others out there.

Chris Williams
33 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:05:58
The Guardian is reporting that Koeman is determined to sign him despite the reported fee. Because Swansea are off to USA on Thursday he wants the deal sorting quickly.

We'll see I guess, and key might be the player's desire to move.

Tomorrow might be interesting if this report is accurate.

Simon Smith
34 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:10:00
Arnautovic has handed in a transfer request. I was disappointed when the rumour faded last summer.

I know he is a different type of player, but still one I think would be good. He's still only 28 and would be a lot cheaper.

Kristian Boyce
35 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:12:16
I saw the Guardian article as well, but aren't we flying out the Tanzania tonight/tomorrow morning so I doubt anything will be happening until the weekend anyways.
Chris Williams
36 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:15:11
Arnautovic had his chance last year. Chose to stay at Stoke when they gave him a nice new contract .

Sounds a bit of a prick.

Drew O'Neall
37 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:16:04
How many players do we need in that position?

We've got Rooney, Klaassen and Barkley!

Paul Ellam
38 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:18:50
The pre-2016 Everton fan in me is screaming "don't pay anywhere near £50m for Sigurdsson".

The post-2016 Everton fan in me is saying (with a swagger) "just blow them out of the water and pay the £50m!!!" After all, we have just dropped a huge jackpot with the Lukaku deal.

For his fee we could get Sigurdsson and a £40m striker or 2 strikers that make up £40m. It would still be good business I believe. If we are indeed minted, here is a good way to show it.

Paul Kossoff
39 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:24:03
Leave him where he is, not worth £50 million despite what Pat Nevin says. Swap a player plus cash, if not, look elsewhere.

And no, Ross isn't worth £50million either.

Adam Scott
40 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:50:46
Please don't pay £50m for him. An average player who won't take us to the next level.

For that money you look to bring in a statement signing. A De Bruyne or Sane when city bought them. Young, versatile, going to the top. Not a 28-year-old who is a good Premier Legue player, but really not much more than that.

The long-term implications don't bear thinking about. Being tough sellers is pointless if you haemorrhage money the other end.

Peter Laing
41 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:53:30
Barkley hasn't travelled to Tanzania with the squad – reason staying behind to have injury treated. Yet Bolasie has travelled...
James Marshall
42 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:56:05
People complaining about the £50m price tag, well yes, I would agree, but aren't you all the same people who rated Lukaku at around £100m, and Barkley at some ridiculous price as well?

You can't have it both ways!

We should just ask them to swap him for Barkley and a few multi-packs of Monster Munch.

John Malone
43 Posted 11/07/2017 at 21:59:32
Peter (#39), I've just come on to speak about same thing!

Biggest indication yet that Barkley is gone, no doubt Levy the tight arse playing a waiting game to get him for as cheap as possible!

Barkley should be ashamed of himself placing us over a barrel like that, look at Sigurdsson for Swansea showing more respect and he's from Iceland!!! Disgrace!

Adam Scott
44 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:02:02
But nobody in their right mind is paying £50m for Barkley, James.

Lukaku, given his age, goal ratio and paucity of striking options was worth that sort of figure.

John Pierce
45 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:05:51
If Koeman and Walsh want the player then pay the asking price because it ain't about haggling.

The sale of Lukaku has made any lingering FFP concerns from some, not myself, fade away.

The benefits from getting the player in, training and part of the squad now rather than in 6 weeks time outweigh the perceived heavy price tag.

With the Europa League in the offing, getting him and others in now leave Everton ahead in fitness terms and with no concerns going into the fag-end of the transfer window.

It also leaves Koeman to focus on dealing with the start to the Premier League campaign.

Peter Laing
46 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:06:36
Funny thing is, John (#41), I've just watched the video of Rooney's first training session and Barkley looks to be moving fine. I'm no physio but if it's a serious injury he wouldn't be training at all.
James Marshall
47 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:10:44
Adam – it's likely nobody in their right mind will pay £50m for Sigurdsson either!
Ray Smith
48 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:16:25
Peter (#44),

Well said.

Ross needs a serious dose of growing up. Is he so blind to be able to not see what is going on behind his back?

I feel sorry for him, because if his agent is supposedly looking after him, he needs a new one.

Can't see a future at Everton for Ross regardless of what transpires in the near future. Silly boy, what a waste!

Jeff Armstrong
49 Posted 11/07/2017 at 22:18:32
Sigurdsson at £50 mill is ridiculous, he's one season away from being past his peak!

Fair enough if he's 23-24 but in a couple of years he'll be worth about £6 million, invest that kind of money in a Barkley or a... oh, hang on...

Brian Wilkinson
50 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:02:26
There is a difference between haggling and keep putting the price up we offer £20 Million they wanted £27, so we upped our bid to £27 only for the price to be £32, then when we put a bigger bid in its now £50 Million, what happens if Everton offer £50 Million, then they want £55 Million plus add ons.

Sorry but you cannot fault Everton on this one, there's a time to walk away and if £35 Million tops is not accepted, then look elsewhere.

We will not get £50 Million for Barkley, there's meeting at an agreeable price like we did with Lukaku, none of this keep putting the price up.

Matt Muzi
51 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:06:24
It's an interesting one. Yes I'd like Sigurdsson at Everton, but I think 50 mill is too much & it's clear Swansea aren't going to accept less than that for him & good on them I say.

So it's either going to be a case of shipping some midfielders out to offset the cost, McGeady is going, there's a lot of talk of Barry going & I'd be surprised if McCarthy especially & Besic are still at the club come the end of the window with Gueye & Schneiderlin in front of them.

Alternatively we offer Swansea a set initial payment & make up the rest with add-ons.

Personally I'd like us to be looking at another player of this type who is going to cost less & focusing on both full backs, a winger & a striker, but I do think Koeman & Walsh both want Sigurdsson so I wouldn't be surprised if we make an offer.

Very interesting about Ross, but after his recent antics I think he's off, but then look at the young AC Milan goalkeeper & the situation they've had with him & his agent & he's just signed a new contract.

John Pierce
52 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:09:29
Barkley should be mentioned in the Sigurdsson deal because: (a) it would grease the wheels, they get a similar player in return; and (b) if (and stress 'if') Spurs are genuinely interested, then it should smoke them out, forcing a bid.
Anthony Dwyer
53 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:17:35
We should bury the hatchet with Ross; also back Niasse to stay as a back-up striker. There's no reason why Ross can't be a first team player, as there's no reason that Niasse can't score goals from the bench or in the Europa League.
Paul Birmingham
54 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:17:37
I'd go £35m tops and no more as in my view he didn't cut it at Spurs albeit at the time they were in rapid transition which is where we are now.

So I still reckon, as a priority we need a quality striker to play alongside Sandro (Rooney younger version),as a priority, and cover Right back, as it seems Kenny, may be put out on loan..which I think he has done enough to have a squad number but senior players above him face the same issue, but if your young enough your good enough, and in my book Kenny, is Hibbo Mk 2, and better going forward.

Ross needs to decide his future and the club needs a focused squad with a clear line of sight. No shirkers or moaners, and Lukaku has gone, so even less chance to be foiled under any off field guises.

It's sad that it has come to this but Ross can't be injured unless sustained at Finch Farm, and I reckon his mentor or agent should be sacked, as there seems to be zilch in that context from them, in terms of inspiration.

On face value, I reckon Koeman has given him a chance but the last chance to stay at EFC? If he's not committed to a new contract then I see only one outcome which would, be very sad..

Bench at best at the moment as if he's not travelled to Africa, there must be a reason?

James Watts
55 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:21:43
I suspect if we really do want him, we'd be looking at £35m + £10m in add ons. We always know the 'public' price is very rarely the final price.

Is he worth that much? If he creates 15 goals from set pieces this year and is the difference between finishing 7th and 4th then absolutely he is.

Should we pay that much for him? Depends on Koeman and Walsh. I would imagine there is just as good, if not better, overall players on the continent for that sort of price but they seem to have their heart set on him. Guess we'll find out shortly!

Tom Bowers
56 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:25:07
He is quality but not £50 million worth so I would forget him at his age. Five years younger maybe. Swansea milking it for all it's worth (or not worth).
Gavin Johnson
57 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:37:18
If we're willing to blow £50m on a player, it should be a marquee signing that gets everyone's attention, like Mahrez or Van Dijk.

Sigurdsson is very good, but he's not an elite player. Would he get in the RS's team ahead of Firmino & Courtinho? I'm not sure he would...

John Pickles
58 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:47:33
£35M up front + £5M when we win the Premier League + £5M when we win the Champions League + £5M when we do them at the same time = £50M, simple.
Dan Davies
59 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:57:24
Agree with Tom and Gavin, if we're blowing 50 big ones, let's get Van Dijk. Now that would be a seismic shift in power on Merseyside. They would be having nightmares.
Brian Williams
60 Posted 11/07/2017 at 23:59:03
Barkley suffered a minor groin strain in training and wouldn't have figured in Tanzania. Bolasie's travelled for PR.
Clive Mitchell
61 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:13:29
Sigurdsson would be overpriced at £30m. I know it seems Ross has refused an offered contract, but he's worth at least twice what this fella's worth – I'd rather buy Ross for £60m than this guy for £30m.

None of the people we've brought in will match the weight of contribution made by Rom or Ross. I know we've not had a choice, but expecting us to be better next season when we've lost/ditched those two isn't rational in my view.

James Flynn
62 Posted 11/07/2017 at 00:24:28
Not a murmur from Sigurdsson's camp like, "I'm happy here." or "Swansea for me!" So, something's up.

Whether a deal is done or not, Everton have the advantage in negotiations. It appears the Club wants Sigy, but can look elsewhere or go forward with what we have.

I looked up the final Table from last season. Swansea gave up the second most goals (70) and their negative goal difference was one better than Middlesbrough; a club relegated while giving up the fewest goals (53) of the Premier League's bottom 10. The difference between the two was Sigurdsson.

Leaving Swansea's ownership in a tricky situation, no? Keep him, with fingers crossed, or cash out and look to improve their defense enough to stay in the league.

I'll guess we'll come to an agreement at some number in the £30Ms with add-ons.

We add a first-rate footballer. Swansea have funds enough to give Clement some defenders to keep Swansea in the Premier League. Both clubs, for different reasons, win.

Jon Saward
63 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:51:41
Trouble is, we're just not used to having to wait this summer. It'll all play out between us, Spurs, Swansea and the players – but not until everyone's got their replacements lined up and has reached a point where they don't think they can negotiate a higher selling price for their asset any further.

Although there are rumours about having it sorted this week, I wouldn't be surprised if we're still having this conversation on deadline day.

Kristian Boyce
64 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:52:40
Clive, are you trying to say Ross is twice the player Sigurdsson is or superior to Klaassen??? I can't see many people agreeing with you on that claim.
Jason Broome
65 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:52:40
Nope... Too much money.

We should be searching for the next generation Sigurdsson. For example Martin Odegaard who would cost a lot less or Alen Halilovic or even try a loan to buy Enzo Zidane.

Think outside the box and don't get mugged off by Swansea.

Andrew James
66 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:57:29
Clive @58

Agreed – Ross fed a £75 million striker this season hence his goals. He is 4/5 years younger. He is the better player. He just isn't getting the breaks or the credit currently.

The Sig is a player at his zenith now. But if he was that good, Swansea would have been safe from relegation far earlier. £50 million is a joke.

Keep Ross.

James Stewart
67 Posted 12/07/2017 at 01:13:59
Good player but not a £50m player. I find it hard to believe a team of Walsh and his hotshot scouts couldn't find a better deal for that kind of money.

As mentioned in an above comment Ross trained and isn't included due to the situation quickly deteriorating.

Richard Murray
68 Posted 12/07/2017 at 01:15:56
Clive @ 60,

Think your pricing of Ross and Sig is a bit off but generally agree with you. And 100% agree wih your comments on Ross and Rom. At least I'm not the only one thinking it!

Mark Andersson
69 Posted 12/07/2017 at 01:19:55
Some interesting points made over this situation. I really don't understand why Ross has not singed a new contract. The boy is a fool if he thinks leaving is a better option.

The iceman from Swansea is only worth what Everton are prepared to pay. I also think we have all been a bit blinded by the light of so many signings already this summer. It's a massive task for this squad to get into the top 4.

A good run in Europa League might see us scrape 6th 7th at best... Exit early doors the same. Whatever went wrong in the domestic cups last season needs addressing.

Tough start to the season, so I am not feeling too optimistic.

James Watts
70 Posted 12/07/2017 at 01:22:57
Clive (#60). What are you smoking? It's got to be strong stuff to say something like "I'd rather buy Ross for £60m".

Have you forgotten how poor he has been for the majority of the last 3 seasons? You definitely have your blue-tinted glasses on there!

And "None of the people we've brought in will match the weight of contribution made by Rom or Ross." What utter tosh.

We have brought in some very good players so far. Contribution is not just about scoring goals with the odd assist. It's about those things AND working hard for the benefit of the team. I'm much happier with our team now than I was with those two in it.

John Pierce
71 Posted 12/07/2017 at 02:43:51
In my mind, Ross has had 4 years to prove and show he's good enough for the first team and his skillsets are improving.

In the last four years, he has been good enough for first team, in part by default; debatable I know. Has he improved, for me he's the same player he was for years ago.

That's an audition which has gone on long enough. Is he a first team member now? I would say not now. Time for him to move on, he and Everton need a rest.

I have toyed with the idea that the effect Tom Davies emergence had on Ross last year, a marked improvement for a time, could be repeated as the world's eyes will be on Rooney and the new Everton, perhaps it might help him?

We could line up very scouse like versus Stoke. Ross, Rooney, Baines, Kenny, Davies. Could be the very thing he needs.

I hope it is but most think he's gonna move on, and maybe a that's fair enough. Everton need to move forward and Ross does to.


Clive Mitchell
72 Posted 12/07/2017 at 02:45:10
James, you clearly find my view incomprehensible, as I find yours. We'll see soon enough. Which of the people we've brought in do you expect to match this season the contributions made last season by Rom and Ross? Which of them do you think the most likely to do so?
David Ellis
73 Posted 12/07/2017 at 02:53:03
No more than £35m. It's not a question of timing payments or agreeing "add ons" on top. If we are spending north of £35m it needs to be for a better class of player (like James Rodriguez for example). Either Sigurdsson forces the move or we look elsewhere.

I think for our remaining purchases we will have to get used to being patient and seeing things fall into place at the last minute. However we are still a lot stronger with the business we have done so far.

I also like the idea of the Dutch left-back coming in as cover for Baines and possible successor.

Anto Byrne
74 Posted 12/07/2017 at 03:49:49
If it's money then Barkley can fuck off. Surely it's a no-brainer having a mentor as Rooney in the squad. He is still a good player and he had 10 man-of-the-match performances as well as having a go in the derby, even if it didn't happen for him that day.

Klaassen, Barkley, Rooney, Schneiderlin and Gana. Didn't we see improvement surely merits a decent 7/10. Oh well.

Dave Speed
75 Posted 12/07/2017 at 04:57:54
A few truths to look at. Gylfi hasn't expressed an interest in leaving. Swansea have said that they don't want or need to sell. Ross hasn't signed a new contract. Nobody has bid for Ross but there are still about 7 weeks left to do business. Koeman has made it clear that Ross should sign or be ignored, to an extent.

Then the speculation. Ross is upset with his treatment by Koeman. Really? He was given chances to show that he could make small changes for the sake of the team, but Ross seems to be playing every game for his own enjoyment, and maybe beat everyone and score another "Newcastle" goal every game. Unrealistic.

If we really want Gylfi we have to match Swansea's price, just like the other way round with Lukaku, no matter what his true value. Gylfi might still be smarting from his Spurs experience. It's one thing to say that a player has more chance of winning things with another club, but it loses it's allure if you're watching it from the bench. Rooney said as much about the Europa final.

I am sure that we will tempt Swansea and Gylfi, but I hope we don't try to wait it out like the old EFC. With Ross I hope he signs. He has some role models to look to now, ie, the work rate of Sandro and the guile, selflessness and awareness of Rooney.

I think our priorities are a proven striker, even a stop gap, full back cover, an experienced partner for Keane, as Jags and Willo are a bit slow, and decent goalkeeper back up. All do-able very quickly, regardless of the Gylfi and Ross situations.

James Watts
76 Posted 12/07/2017 at 06:06:32
Clive (#71). In order to answer your question, I would say 'most likely' being Sandro and Rooney will get a similar amount of goals between them to offset what Lukaku delivered. I would say Klaassen would get more goals than Barkley provided. To make up the number if assists, I would say those 3 would get more between them than the previous two.

Plus all being well we'll have another striker and Sigurdsson coming in who will also more than make up for what Rom and Ross did.

Individually as talented as Rom and Ross? Possibly, possibly not, time will tell. But the biggest thing is I believe these players would contribute way more overall that purely goals and assists, which in turn will make us a much stronger team.

But you're telling me you'd prefer Rom, who wasn't interested in moving and had some of the worst movement stats in the division barring goalkeepers and subs, unless he had a chance of scoring. And Ross who for a few good things would give the ball away at least as 5 times as much? Don't buy into that at all. Give me our current crop, and in-comings, any day of the week.

Kenny Smith
77 Posted 12/07/2017 at 07:17:18
But think of all the shirts we could sell in Iceland. Oh yeah, no one lives there?
Colin Grierson
78 Posted 12/07/2017 at 07:38:01
I'd like to see Gylfi join us but its not up to me. As for the price, I think £35m is his market value but his value is what someone is prepares to pay for him. If we want him and they won't drop the valuation then we pay up or move on to someone with similar attributes.

We have all wanted Ross to achieve his potential since he came in to the first team. However, he has lost the swagger that he emerged with and seems to have stagnated. He summed up our frustrations under Martinez (who was guilty of massively over-hyping the lad) and for then last few seasons he has under-performed.

Thankfully, we now seem to have a boardroom that has a balance between head and heart reactions. Ross would do well to consider trying to prove himself to Norman as if he leaves, he may well watch us with envy as we cement our position in the upper echelons of the Premier League.

Colin Glassar
79 Posted 12/07/2017 at 08:03:20
Sounds like we will meet their £50m demand. I just hope it's £35m plus add-ons. The world has gone mad!
Shaun Wilson
80 Posted 12/07/2017 at 08:05:59
I love the idea of Gylfi joining us, but £50 million is too much. Undoubtedly a great addition but as previous posters have stated, there's more value for money on the European mainland.

When does Walshie get back from Italy? Surely, he's gonna pull at least one big one out of the bag . I just hope whatever signings are done soon so we can get the team together to get a Europa League run going. Win that, Champions League football next year. With that to offer, and cash to back it up, who could resist?

Look at the guys we have signed this off season – how many of them would have signed for us 12 months ago? Even with Koeman in control, there was scepticism but the tide has turned. Get us a quality striker, Ron. NSNO

Chris Williams
81 Posted 12/07/2017 at 08:13:17
I think his market value is what someone is prepared to pay. The premier league is awash with cash increasingly. I think Sunderland got the thick end of £100m for last place, and it's going up again!

If Everton want him badly enough, and they seem to according to latest Guardian reports, they'll pay a price they need to. It's not as if we're strapped for cash.

Leicester have allegedly had £40m rejected. Spurs are supposedly interested. Swansea don't want to sell. So the law of supply and demand will apply.

But yes, the world has gone mad.

Jim Potter
82 Posted 12/07/2017 at 08:46:42
Get him in.

Get Van Dijk in.

Get rat boy Suarez in.

Just get 'em in!

I never thought I'd visit Fantasy Island – but as I appear to be there, then I'm going for it.

Rick Pattinson
83 Posted 12/07/2017 at 10:39:48
No effing way. £25 million tops. Or £20 million and Niasse... move on; look elsewhere.
Anthony Dwyer
84 Posted 12/07/2017 at 11:29:44
Clive, I agree with some of what you've said too mate. Your prices are a bit off etc, but I think it was more about making a point than actually pricing up the players.

People on here forget what Barkley gave us last season in a poor season for him. Check out opta stats in terms of an attacking threat. Ross created the 5th highest amount of 'goal scoring chances', behind only Eriksen, Hazard, Sanchez, and De Bruyne.

If Koeman wants to add more creativity to our team then he should find a way of keeping Ross in our set up as clearly he is one of the most creative players within the Premier League.

Brian Williams
85 Posted 12/07/2017 at 12:06:14
Prices have gone mad. We've allegedly put a price of £50m on Ross Barkley. Swansea have done the same with Sigurdsson. Don't think either club will get anywhere near that.

Tell you – it makes the £25m for Keane seem like a steal now though.

Dave Abrahams
86 Posted 12/07/2017 at 12:19:11
Anthony (#83), I presume you go to Everton matches, so do what you see, regarding Ross, match the stats, and can the stats in any shape or form tell you that Ross is as good as any of the four players you name in your post.

I hope Ross stays because I think he will improve under Koeman so it is all down to him, none of us know why he hasn't signed his new contract with allegedly a much improved offer.

Nicholas Ryan
87 Posted 12/07/2017 at 16:19:47
Since we value Barkley at £50m and Swansea value Sigurdsson at £50m... can you see where this is going?!!
Don Alexander
88 Posted 12/07/2017 at 16:22:14
If he went to Swansea, he'd probably feel right at home living in Mumbles.
Brian Williams
89 Posted 12/07/2017 at 16:26:12
Sigurdsson in, Ross swap. Martina in, Josh King in. Sorted.
Jamie Crowley
90 Posted 12/07/2017 at 16:34:48
£50m for Sigurdsson or keep Ross and continue to pay his wages. I just don't see why you'd pay the money.

I think Ross is one hell of a player. Surely Sigurdsson isn't that much better than Ross to pull that trigger?!

If we get £20m for Ross, we are still £30m lighter in the wallet (agent fees, other expenses, blah blah blah).

How much does a section of a new stadium cost? Save the dough.

Brian Williams
91 Posted 12/07/2017 at 16:40:12
Jamie, if he doesn't sign his new contract, we get next to fuck all this time next year.
Ajay Gopal
92 Posted 12/07/2017 at 17:29:30
For that kind of money, we could put a cheeky bid for Fabregas and he might just fancy playing for us regularly in a World Cup year.
Jeff Armstrong
93 Posted 12/07/2017 at 18:33:52
Good shout, Ajay. £30 million would probably do it. He's a similar age to Sigurdsson and a better player too.
Clive Mitchell
94 Posted 12/07/2017 at 18:53:28
Dave (#85), for me, the Opta stats about Ross confirmed what I was seeing every time at the match – Ross is a player with ridiculous amounts of ability who is struggling quite to harness and express it but who is still so good that he's one of the top creators in the Premier League.

It fascinates me that so many Everton fans think this too, while so many others would happily swap him for Sigurdsson.

Dave Abrahams
95 Posted 12/07/2017 at 19:29:22
Clive (#92), I saw him plenty of good things but just as many poor things, he never plays consistently, we all know there is a good player hidden inside him, when is he going to show it on a consistent level?

That is why I want him to stay, he will learn off Koeman if he listens and learns that the manager is trying to help him, criticising him is one way to show him his faults and he has got quite a few.

I wouldn't pay the money being asked for Sigurdsson; there are better players for that amount of money.

Derek Knox
96 Posted 12/07/2017 at 20:17:58
Jim @81 The plane, the plane, the plane Boss!

Presume you have your white suit on.

Lev Vellene
97 Posted 12/07/2017 at 20:36:00
Totally over the top, but I'll give anyone this: If we demand £50m for Barkley with just one more year left on his contract, why should we feel insulted by the equal valuation of a player seemingly so much his better for us, with three more years on his contract? ;D
Anthony Dwyer
98 Posted 12/07/2017 at 00:16:42
Dave (#85) I'm not saying Ross is or isn't anywhere near the level of the players I mentioned, but the fact remains we needed to add creativity. We've brought in Klaassen and Sandro for that department but if we sell Ross as well as Rom then are we really any better off?

If we want to add to what we've got we need to add a player like Sigurdsson as well as keeping Ross.

We could sign a player to push Ross, we may see him sink or swim, but at the same time we could see the same thing happen with Sigurdsson as happened with Bolasie (long term injury) and were straight back to the start.

Looking at the top sides they have lots of quality in the roles Ross plays for us:

Arsenal have Sanchez, Ozil, Walcot, Oxlade-Chamberlin, Ramsey, plus a steady flow of youth players.

Man City have Sane, De Bruyne, Silva, Yaya, Sterling, and so on.

Spurs have Ali, Son, Eriksen, Lamela etc and Liverpool have Courtinho, Firminho, Lallana, Salah, Mane.

All the above players have the ability to get into double figures for assists or/and goals were as we basically have Ross who's looking like leaving, Bolasie who's injured until at least Christmas, Klaassen who's unproven in this league, and Sandro who is a forward who is also unproven in the league. Probably only Rooney (who I didn't want) is pretty much nailed on to reach double figures for assists.

Imo, we need to keep Ross and add a top quality attacking mid, if Sigurdsson is too expensive or out of reach we should look at William, Mata, Marhez or someone similar. If Ross goes, I think we need two new creative midfielders to improve on 7th.

Jamie Crowley
99 Posted 13/07/2017 at 00:24:48
Brian -

Confused. I realize we get SFA if we don't sell him.

But position for position, we are talking about spending £50M for basically someone who plays the same role in the squad.

I'd hold my £50M and get shit for Barkley is that's the case!

Teddy Bertin
100 Posted 13/07/2017 at 00:43:17
Good on Swansea for holding their ground. They don't have the quality of squad or stability in the league to attract another player like Gylfi, so, barring a miracle Mahrez style signing they've got a very chance of being relegated if they sell him.

We all know the huge difference between the money in the Premier League and the Championship so I'd say it's not worth the risk for them.

If we do end up bidding £50m then maybe a cheeky £40m bid for someone like Mata might be worth a go. The guy is top, top class and has at least 3 or 4 more seasons in him.

Not guaranteed a start at Man Utd and at this stage of his career should be the first name on the team sheet like Silva is for Man City.


Don Alexander
101 Posted 13/07/2017 at 01:04:24
The fact is that most of us have seen plenty of Ross Barkley over the past four years and most of us can see no improvement at all, and before anyone once again quotes assist/goal stats in his defence, there aren't any stats available to show what I see: he's deliberately non-existent in recovering possession and when the opposition are in possession they sometimes score.

Sigurdsson seems to me to be a tad too comfortable at Swansea. He's a talented play-maker but he failed at Spurs. Compared to Swansea, Liverpool is another big city albeit nowhere near the size of the Smoke, obviously. But is he the type of mentality who's happy to secure the future of his kids, and theirs, merely by staying put in a humdrum team (and I mean no disrespect to anyone in that distant sheep-shagging part of our Sceptred Isle) or does he share the stated ambition of our latest fading mega-signing to win us a trophy or two?

Hmmmm.

Martin Faulkner
102 Posted 13/07/2017 at 01:39:40
How about giving them:
Jagielka
Barry
Niasse
Garbutt
And 20 tickets to Bill's latest show?
Mike Dolan
103 Posted 13/07/2017 at 02:55:33
Swansea, who are a feeder club, will accept £35 million for Sigurdsson. He wants to move, they can't afford to keep him and they will have the money to replace him with younger players.

In the rarefied air that we find ourselves in, we have moved up in the food chain. If he wants the move, it will happen; if not, we will get the next person on the list.

James Watts
104 Posted 13/07/2017 at 03:46:30
Mike (#102). How do you know he wants to move? Agreed he only needs to say the word and he'll be at Goodison a la Williams last summer. But I don't believe he's said anything about wanting to leave.

Now I suppose you could say he's kept quiet so is open to the idea, but equally he's kept quiet as he's happy where he is. We don't know. Yet.

And I wouldn't be too quick to dismiss Swansea saying they'll take £35m. According to some they've knocked back £40m from Leicester.

The manager's comments yesterday do point to him leaving before season start though.

Will Mabon
105 Posted 13/07/2017 at 08:08:40
Martin, take away the tickets and they might go for it.
Dave Abrahams
106 Posted 13/07/2017 at 09:23:49
Anthony (#98), fair enough, I want Ross to stay as well as long as he is willing to learn. If he listens to Koeman he will learn, but he doesn't seem to like the way Koeman criticises his performances and goes into his shell.

Maybe this is part of Ross's nature, but football is a ruthless business and the footballers in it have got to get used to this side of the game. It's sink or swim, at the moment Ross is sinking and it doesn't look like any other club is throwing the life belt.

Barkley and his agent look like they are prepared to hang on and maybe he will go cheap before the end of August and he can start again with another club. If he does, I will wish him the best of luck and hope he grows up and does well there.

Derek Wadeson
107 Posted 13/07/2017 at 09:52:00
Have we got a new extension to our name? Every time I read the papers it appears so.

"Everton & West Ham are interested in signing...." etc.

Chris Williams
108 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:00:10
Telegraph now reporting Everton have put in a £40m bid and that Sigurdsson is not now flying out to US today.

Let life unfold...

James Watts
109 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:00:56
Well, according to The Telegraph, we've bid £40m and as a result, Sigurdsson will not be boarding the plane to the USA for their pre-season tour, which leaves today.

Let's see if The Telegraph are as full of crap as the red tops!

Sam Hoare
110 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:10:32
I think Siggurdsson is a good player but they must be seeing something I don't (lots of things, I'm sure) if they think he's worth £40m. Bayern can buy James Rodriguez for £30m!

We have probably overpaid a bit this Summer due to wanting to wrap up business and steal a march on the competition; I don't mind it so much with young players with great potential.

Kunal Desai
111 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:13:48
Confirmed that he has not gone to the USA and stayed behind. Deal will probably be completed soon.
James Watts
112 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:14:54
Doesn't £40m put him the same as Rodriguez as each year of the loan is £5m per year then £30 odd mil to buy him? I think I read that somewhere.

But take your point, I think he's a good player but when you see better players on the continent going for similar fees just proves how screwed up Premier League prices are. And funny thing is, if a bid has been made for that they could still reject it!

Andrew Ellams
113 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:22:04
So it looks like he's coming. I guess it's how much for and what does it mean for Barkley.
Kunal Desai
114 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:23:00
I would have taken James Rodriguez anyday over Sigurdsson but look where Rodriguez has moved to? We are not at the level of Bayern Munich, where they will progress to the later stages of the Champions League.
James Watts
115 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:27:07
Kunal agreed – one other thing with him is also his wages. I'm guessing he'll be on nearly double what Sigurdsson will be on. Not that I believe we could have attracted him anyway; maybe next year... after we've won the double. ;)
James Stewart
116 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:27:38
Douglas, Costa gone to Juve for £35m, consistent Champions League performer. The Premier League prices are mad.
Ian Bennett
117 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:28:10
The Premier League is a joke. French international right back going to Seville for £5m, Rodriquez going for £35m, Dortmund striker available for £60m….
Chris Williams
118 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:29:28
Sky reporting Swansea reject Everton bid. The player is going to play a part in this transfer. If he wants a move it will probably happen at a price to be agreed.

Not sure Swansea will do an Everton like with Stones, but even that went through – although at a chunky old fee.

Sam Hoare
119 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:34:52
I really hope we don't go over £40m. Got to be better European options available at that price. Thomas Lemar!!!
Brian Williams
120 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:40:11
Jamie (#99).

Blimey, you were up late posting. I was counting Kopites jumping into the Mersey by that time!

What I meant was that it looks like Koeman really wants someone other than Ross in that position. He seems to have Sigurdsson in his sights and looks like buying him no matter what. With that scenario it would make good sense to get as much as poss for Ross.

I agree though I wouldn't spend £50m on him. I'd spend that on a very good striker.

I wouldn't have offered £40m either but I'm a simple supporter who doesn't know the big picture.

James Watts
121 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:43:55
If it has indeed been refused; it's now down to the player. I suspect if he's had his head turned and hasn't gone to the US then it's only a matter of time. I'm guessing 45m in the end, which is freaking nuts.
James Morgan
122 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:44:18
It's a lot of money but he has proven himself in the Premier League. Sometimes if you badly want the player you just have to pay the money. It'll likely have add ons to take it to £50m which would mean if we ultimately pay that much the player/club have been successful.
Derek Knox
123 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:44:52
Latest reports say that Sigurdsson's head's been turned, and although, manager and fans, want him to stay, the hierarchy, realise this is one hell of a deal, and too good for the Club to quibble over.

Consequently, he has been withdrawn from the impending pre-season trip to America; I reckon he may be an Everton player by the weekend.

This is great news, and in my humble opinion, definitely spells the end for Ross.

Like someone said before, he must have the worst agent going to have advised him to put two fingers to the deal on the table, and hold on for the moths to circulate.

Chris Williams
124 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:46:38
It's the market we're playing in now. If Everton want him they'll have to pay the fee.

Koeman seems to want him whatever and the player won't travel due to uncertainty over his future.

Make of that what you will.

Another 'productive' player, and another captain with massive Premier League experience.

Peter Laing
125 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:47:10
The transfer looks to be all but done. Personally I wouldn't worry about the transfer fee – that is for the triumvirate of Moshiri, Walsh and Koeman to worry about.

Clearly this also signals the end of Barkley's Everton career. If Everton recoup £25-30 million then I suspect that the Club will view this as good business.

Brian Williams
126 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:47:17
If he's been withdrawn from their tour, then I wouldn't offer another penny.

If they've refused the alleged £40m and then withdrawn him from the tour they've shot themselves in the foot. Hopefully not Sigurdsson's foot.

Looks like the plan is.to replace OFS's goals with 10 each from Sandro, Rooney, Klaassen, Sigurdsson and An Other. Thats' 50 goals. Woohoo!

"Here we go" x 3.

Joe O'Brien
127 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:53:42
Looks like this deal is going to happen. I know the prices in the Premier League is crazy but we should go all out for Van Dijk give Southampton whatever they want.

It should be easy enough to find out if he's interested since him and Koeman share the same agent. With a partnership of Van Dijk and Keane with Pickford behind them, we wouldn't concede much.

Get Giroud also and we'd be good to go for next season. The money being thrown about is nuts, but at least we've got it to throw it about.

Sam Hoare
128 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:54:55
Over £40m for a solid Premier League player who takes good free-kicks and corners!! Barkley created more chances from open play last season!

At £20-25m then sure... but, at this price, there are better, younger players we could be buying from Europe.

Brian Harrison
129 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:57:29
Well looks like we will get Sigurdsson, not one I am massively happy about but Koeman wants him so that's it. So far, Moshiri has backed his manager to the hilt and Walsh has delivered all Koeman's targets.

So over to you now Ronald, I am sure the pressure on him this season will be different from last season were he started with Roberto's players. So I don't think no trophies and another 7th place will be good enough this season.

Chris Williams
130 Posted 13/07/2017 at 10:57:45
Apparently Everton want him on board in time for next weeks trip to Holland.

Bear in mind Jim White says we want another 3 in, so if this proceeds, 2 to go.

Andrew Ellams
131 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:00:12
With Martina looking likely we could have 8 players at least in before 27th July when our European campaign starts. Crazy stuff.
Kevin O'Regan
132 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:00:54
@ James (#116),

"Douglas Costa gone to Juve for £35m, consistent Champions League performer" He's gone out on loan because he wasn't consistent – fee possibly later.

But point taken;the prices are crazy and EFC are now in the bracket of also being responsible for such prices...

Hard to know where this inflation will end. Wonder what a young Tim Cahill would cost in 2017.

�ystein Heggelund
133 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:01:31
Even though I agree with most on here that £40 million is excessive for Sigurdsson, I really hope this one goes through, even at £45 or 50 mill. Most of it will be recouped from selling Barkley.

Added productivity is the key here, seeing as Rom is gone and we've had too few goals from elsewhere in the team. Sigurdsson is similar to Klaassen in that he'll represent a bigger goal threat, in addition to assists.

The same can be said about Rooney. Surely Koeman and Walsh will still be on the lookout for a top-class striker, but it may not happen until January or next summer. In the meantime, we have been massively strengthened both as a first team and squad, and will hopefully be an even more attractive proposition in 6 and 12 months for incoming players.

Kunal Desai
134 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:01:46
I would have preferred Fabregas, he'd be perfect for us, brings so much experience and probably won't be in Chelsea's starting eleven.
Ernie Baywood
135 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:01:53
Torn on this. On one hand, surely we'd be better off keeping Ross and coaching improvement into him (or at least trying) rather than spending £40M+ on Sigurdsson and selling Ross on the cheap.

On the other, every set of fans this guy has played for have raved about him. The rest of football think he's great based on highlights. He does it year-in & year-out. He performs in big games.

I suspect we would love this bloke.

Barry McNally
136 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:14:07
Presume Fabregas was sounded out and not worth pursuing.
Ben Dyke
137 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:16:30
It's hard to cheer about the prices when they are so ridiculous but it's the same for the money we are getting in – Stones £47½m, Lukaku £90m etc. And £5.7bn for the TV deal over 3 years. Totally crazy but that's how it is.

He'll add goals and craft from midfield as Koeman stated we desperately needed.

When will this new Everton roller-coaster ride end? Will it ever end! Can't wait till next season now what must the Reds be thinking... haha!

Andy Meighan
138 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:16:34
I'd love to know what Ray Said
Chris Gould
139 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:19:55
Sam (#128),

Who are these younger better players you speak of? Whoever they may be, there's no guarantee they'll adapt to the Premier League.

We've already got Sandro and Klaassen who may take time to settle, and it's clear that Koeman wants a proven performer who can come in and hit the ground running.

These stats regarding chances created are misleading. Barkley created 82 chances apparently. So, taking away his 8 assists that leaves 74 chances. Now, what constitutes a chance? Because I certainly can't recall 74 chances spurned after great passes from Ross.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of Ross, but goals and assists are the only stats that count for a player in Ross's position. Apparently he was playing behind one of the best finishers in the Premier League so surely he should be getting more assists than Sigurdsson?

I think we'll see the difference this season with Sigurdsson in the team. Ross has all the talent in the world, but he just doesn't show it enough.

In saying all of that, £50 Million is truly crazy money.

Danny Halsall
140 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:27:17
Transfers in - Pickford £30m, Klaassen £23.6m, Keane £30m, Rooney free, Onyekuru £6.8m, Sandro £5m, Sigurdsson £45m.

Total spend - £140.4m

Transfers out - Lukaku £90m, Possibly Barkley £20-25m

Total - £110m

That leaves us with a net spend of around £30m, not bad business when you look at it like this.

I think we should sell Barkley. No doubt he is a talented player, but his end product is often lacking and I'd like to see a stat that tells me how many times he gives the ball away in a match. Runs up blind alleys and is extremely lethargic in possession. I think for all his ability he seriously lacks a footballing brain.

As for those who complain about the fee, I think £40-45m is probably right. Imagine if he was our player with 3 years left on his contract, we'd want exactly the same fee.

Personally, I think the way in which we are conducting our business in the window is correct and is all about taking the club forward realistically. We can't lure the likes of Rodriguez or Douglas Costa to the club yet, so we build a team that can improve on our Premier League performance and give us a real chance of winning one of the cup competitions we are in.

Then next season try to go that step further. It is a project and players like Sigurdsson can help us get to where we want to go.

David Booth
141 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:30:32
Danny, don't forget Cleverley (£8m), Deulofeu (£10m) and McGeady (£4.5m) - which would make our net spend around the £10m mark so far, if Ross does go.
Martin Nicholls
142 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:33:17
Danny (#139) – we've also sold Deulofeu and Cleverley for around £20 million and it looks like McGeady is off to the Mackems...
Martin Nicholls
143 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:34:05
Sorry, David – you were quicker on the draw than me!
David Booth
144 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:34:32
So... if we had to spend another £70m to acquire Sigurdsson and Benteke, we'd have some of the Sky cash and some of Moshiri's – and got virtually a whole, new team that Koeman can call his own.

We'll see what he's made of then.

My main wish is that he gets us to finally shed our inferiority complex and we start competing in another 12 games (home and away) against the six teams above us from this season onwards.

Danny Halsall
145 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:47:59
Martin and David – Of course, with the distraction of the Lukaku/Rooney Saga I have completely forgot about those deals that have gone under the radar a little.

Even better business when you consider Deulofeu and McGeady really didn't play a part at all last season.

Andrew Ellams
146 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:48:54
I think McCarthy will be on his way and Funes Mori which puts into the black as far as transfer fees are concerned. Although I don't think Gylfi will be the last one through the incoming door.
Brian Williams
147 Posted 13/07/2017 at 11:51:23
Think you've got to use what was actually paid out or received before add-ons (which may or may not come to fruition).

Pickford was actually £22m I believe. Keane was £25m. Klaassen £23.6m. Onyekuru £6.8m. Sandro £5.2m.

If Sigurdsson is gonna be £40m, that's a total of £122.6m.

Outs are OFS £75M. Geri £10.2m. Cleverley £8m. If we got £25m for Barkely that's a total of £118.2m.

Net spend = £4.4m.

That should leave us another £50-60m to spend. IMHO!

Dave Abrahams
148 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:03:40
The more money we spend means to me we are are eventually getting the best player for the club we will ever get: Usmanov, in terms of money anyway.
Chris Williams
149 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:07:53
Walsh is flying back from Tanzania tonight. It may always have been his intention of course.
Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
150 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:08:39
See those same Mackems who have Rodwell, Gibson, Oviedo and McGeady, and have released Anichebe and Pienaar are now in the market for a 28-year-old striker from Bury called James Vaughan.

With their penchant for ex-players, any chance we can sell them Oumar? Or does his new squad number give him a new career at Goodison Park?

Jermaine Jennings
151 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:12:09
£50million is way over the top but all clubs have money and so all clubs are in the same position. It should be £35mill plus add-ons.

Personally I think we won't sell Ross, he just needs competition in his position so he can improve his game, learning from others.

Andrew Ellams
152 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:12:17
Phil, the odds on Niasse joining Sunderland dropped through the floor last week but then it all went very quiet.
Ian Glassey
153 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:15:54
Chris (#148),

I think I heard Koeman saying that they would be back on Friday so they may all be flying back tonight... This will be done in time for the Dutch trip next week.

Now let's get a top striker in and prepare for lift off... COYB

Andrew Ellams
154 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:20:39
Ian, reading the Sky Sports article, it looks like Swansea are expecting the £50million to include add-ons.
Nigel Munford
155 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:21:27
Brian (#126), reports suggest he withdrew from the tour at the eleventh hour and not the club withdrawing him. Interesting.

Also more talk of Giroud leaving Arsenal and Ligue 1 not necessarily his chosen destination. Again interesting.

Would love these two to be signed very soon.

Derek Knox
156 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:23:47
Just a sidenote really, Sky Sports make me laugh, one minute they are saying our bid has been rejected, then saying the Foxes, who had a superior bid rejected too.

Next clip, they are showing Sigurdsson's goals and assists, and showing us too with Lukaku and Barkley, purely no connection, if our bid has been rejected!

Next they show our training session, and even mention our pre-season visit to Tanzania.

Conclusion, Rooney has indirectly, no directly, put us back on the World map, and even Sky are favouring us again.

I Don't particularly like Sky, in so many ways, because they hold a monopoly, both with the viewing costs and their involvement with Football, along with other sports too.

However, they are here to stay whether we like it or not, and putting us, on view, can't do us any harm.

Brian Williams
157 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:35:41
Nigel (#154).

Yep that seems to be what happened, literally refused to get on the coach to the airport or wherever. Now that's why I don't think we should offer any more than we have.

He's as good as burnt his bridges there now so we should be able to negotiate harder and pay a lot less than £50m. I wouldn't increase it all, maybe just get back in touch and say our offer of £40m still stands if you change your mind.

Ian Hollingworth
158 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:42:49
Last season, Sigurdsson scored against Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool, Man Utd, Man City home and away plus he scored against us.

Maybe £40m+ will be worth it?

Brian Williams
159 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:44:24
Good point, Ian, and after all, it's not our money, is it?????
Craig Walker
160 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:50:42
I'd say to Swansea "Final offer of £45 million all-in or £25 million plus Ross Barkley or £45 million plus Oumar Niasse".
Andrew Ellams
161 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:51:48
Brian, it may not be our money but look at clubs like Leeds and Portsmouth. When it goes wrong, the owner legs it, the playing and non-playing staff all move on and the only people left are the fans.

Not that I'm suggesting that's where Everton are heading.

John G Davies
162 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:56:45
We are football fans not accountants.

We have waited half a century to have an owner like this.
Sit back, relax, enjoy.

Tony J Williams
163 Posted 13/07/2017 at 12:56:59
Ultimately it's down to the board.

Have they said "money's no object!"?

If so, who are we to argue and it's not coming out our pockets.

When was the last transfer that was done on the cheap (transfer clauses excepted)?

Andrew, the money coming in from transfers will make our spend not seems that high in the end.

Andrew Ellams
164 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:08:56
Tony J Williams, of course. Over the 12 months that Koeman has been in place, if you combine transfer fees and TV/PL money, then the club is probably comfortably in the black. But the idea of throwing £50million about just because is a slippery slope.
Mike Berry
165 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:19:07
Looks like the player wants out, having not travelled on their pre-season today.

I can't see us paying more than £40m despite this... maybe a player exchange plus cash, McCarthy for instance?

Dan Nulty
166 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:20:11
Absolutely bonkers but I agree with some of the sentiments above. With Sandro and Klaassen potentially taking time to adjust, bringing proven Premier League excellence in Rooney and Sigurdsson is a must.

Don't forget, we need at least one full back and a striker to come in too.

Ross clearly going so, as mad as this window has been for us, the net spend will not actually be that big I don't think...

James Stewart
167 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:22:50
His stats are up there with the likes of De Bruyne and Eriksen and above Ozil, so I can understand Swansea's stance. If any of those 3 were sold it would be £50m plus. £50m just sounds slightly ridiculous because he plays for Swansea.

That said it does set a bit of a dangerous precedent for any future transfers. As soon as we go in for the likes of Giroud, Benteke et al you can bet your bottom dollar the price will be £50m!

Tony Graham
168 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:24:26
John, at 161, my thoughts entirely. I've dreamed of times like this. Just enjoy it all, I am...
Sean Patton
169 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:27:53
This is utter stupidity for that money you should be getting world class talent – not a decent set piece taker in his late 20s.
Karl Meighan
170 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:28:54
The value of players depends on how much the buying club wants a player. If we believe Siggurdsen will improve us and helps us take the next step then pay Swansea what they want.

Every Premier League club will expect top dollar for there top players especially if there selling to a club in the same country.

If we want to compete for top players then from time to time buying regardless of the fee is going to be part of the deal.

Andrew Keatley
171 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:29:16
For me, having his set piece ability over the next five years – not just direct free-kicks but his delivery from corners and wide free-kicks – means he might well be worth the extra money. He is a proper set-piece specialist.

Sigurdsson definitely has a slight lack of pace, but his vision, skill and ball retention should afford other players around him to have more impact on the game. We have been crying out for a consistent creative midfielder for years (since Arteta at least) and at a time when we cannot yet hook the likes of James Rodriguez or Cesc Fabregas then Sigurdsson is probably front of the realistic queue.

If it takes £50 million to get him through the door then it's not ideal, but so be it.

Jon Withey
172 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:32:10
Shouldn't we be paying this for a top-class striker instead?
Phil Walling
173 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:32:44
Most would say we already have a boss set-piece expert in Rooney!
Steve Ferns
174 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:45:39
"It's not our money" – this keeps getting repeated over and over and over on various threads.

Yes it is. We are in the exact same position that Aston Villa were in when Randy Lerner first came and threw silly money at a number of young English players, like Ashley Young. Villa fans were ecstatic and were saying, "It's not our money."

We all know that Villa only managed to get above us once in this little golden period for them, and they failed in their bid to break into the top 4. Lerner then got bored of it all, and pulled the plug. He kept ownership of Villa for a good few years afterwards, whilst trying and failing to sell them and pulling as much money out of the club as he could.

Villa are now in the Championship, and their finances are a mess although they are trying like mad to get back to the Premier League with their new owners.

Villa are not the only club in the last few years to try to throw money at breaking into the top 4. Sunderland tried to spend their way up the table and they are in an almighty mess. And again their owner was digging into his own pockets and their fans were saying "It's not our money".

It is "our money", and if this all goes wrong, and Moshiri pulls the plug, expect us to get relegated and to face a very uncertain financial future. So, instead of dismissing those of us concerned over the spending as "accountants", let's have a bit more restraint.

Just to clarify, the money comes out of Everton's accounts, and Moshiri is merely underwriting the spending. He is an astute businessman and knows how to ensure that a toxic Everton does not bankrupt him. We have to hope he remains committed to the cause, and whilst he pushes us up the table, he does not overstretch us to the extent that we cannot afford the wages and the debts accrued.

Also, please factor in £30-£40m spent on agent fees this summer alone. If you think I'm wrong, tell me again in 12 months, after our accounts are published.

Sigurdsson is far too expensive for what he is and a massive gamble at £40m+. I would like us to swerve it and look for someone a few years younger with some resale value.

John Smith
175 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:45:46
Not a fan of David Moyes, but kudos to him for trying to get Sigurdsson in for about £4 million back in the day, when no-one had heard of him.
Franny Porter
176 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:47:11
Comparing us to the likes of Leeds is just daft, its a completely different financial landscape nowadays.

I have no doubt we will get Gylfi now, what with him staying at home. I expect us to pay around £45 million and I will be happy with it.

Like someone said earlier in the thread, fucking enjoy it.

Terry Underwood
177 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:47:41
IMO, Swansea are doing nothing wrong at all. They are saying, "We don't want to sell this player, but if you are daft enough to overpay by 40%, then that's up to you."

We need to either piss or get off the pot... simple!

Steve Ferns
178 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:49:44
I never mentioned Leeds, I mentioned Villa and Sunderland which are current and very real examples to us.
James Macdonald
179 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:50:50
This is literally madness. Barkley is significantly younger, has far more potential and is clearly the more effective player in open play. Sigurdsson is 28 so we will get no more than 2 peak years out of him.

Even applying amateur calculations, this deal makes zero sense. If true Ross wanted £140,000 a week that will cost us £29 million over 4 years as opposed to the apparent £21 million we have offered him (£100,000 a week for 4 years).

So for the sake of saving that £8 million we now will spend £42 million on the transfer then £135000 in wages a week so over four years the sum total will be £70,000 million.

Can anyone put together a rational argument that this is a strategy that makes sense?

Steve Ferns
180 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:52:17
No James, I cannot. This is a transfer that is far too reckless for me.
James Watts
181 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:53:32
I can, James (#175). It's simple.

Sigurdsson is the better player. Barkley has had potential for years and has gone backwards.

£40 plus mill is excessive, agreed... but there you go.

Mike Doyle
182 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:54:47
While the figures being quoted for Gylfi are silly, even if true it means our net spend over this window will be around £20-30 million (depending on what we've recouped on player sales). Not spectacular in the current climate.

Assuming Ross is on his way, the net spend may prove neutral.

John G Davies
183 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:56:13
Terry (#173).

We did the same with Lukaku.

Steve Ferns
184 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:57:56
What about the signing on fees, the agent fees, and all the other hidden costs? That's just for the transfers coming in. We also have to pay loyalty fees for the players sold, more agents fees, and a load more hidden costs.

We are in for a massive wake-up call when the accounts are next published and we all see our costs go through the roof, not the money spent on transfers, but all the other stuff spread about and hidden in the other parts of the accounts.

James Watts
185 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:59:27
Seriously people – why are you so worried about the money? Our net spend is still peanuts if we sign Sigurdsson. We've hardly dipped into the £60m fund recently secured or the TV money.

Relax. Enjoy the signings and look forward to the season.

Brian Williams
186 Posted 13/07/2017 at 13:59:29
Yeh, I can too. Our manager thinks Barkley's not good enough, and thinks Sigurdsson is. He has a plan which appears to include Sigurdsson but not Barkley. It's HIS job and it's not our money.

Should Sigurdsson score a last minute free kick winner across the park my celebrations wont be tempered by my concern over his cost. There are professionals at the club to do that.

Franny Porter
187 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:00:17
Steve, I bet you my left testicle that we don't go the way of Villa and Sunderland. A ridiculous comparison in my opinion.
Andrew Ellams
188 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:01:04
Franny, Leeds thought they were making the most out of a new financial landscape and they blew it bigtime.

I expect this summer to be a one-off in terms of volume but we can't afford to get ahead of ourselves financially.

James Morgan
189 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:02:48
James, how do you know we will only get two peak years out of him? Do players suddenly become crap on their 30th birthday?

And if his goals and assists contribute to a trophy or top four finish, does that not make him better value?

Sometimes if you want a player you just have to pay the money.

Gary Edwards
190 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:04:49
I'm with Steve (#171) and others, £40m is far too much for Sigurdsson I would rather that we spend our money elsewhere, eg, someone tall and mobile up front.

I fail to see why Rooney can't play the same role that Sigurdsson plays, maybe rotating with the likes of Harry Charsley & Liam Walsh... or even Kevin Mirallas.

Steve Ferns
191 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:05:15
It's ridiculous to compare us with other premier league clubs who had enthusiastic owners who were also very shrewd and award-winning businessmen, who came in and tried to move their respective clubs up the table and were prepared to throw money at it? Both of those owners also paid off all the their previous regime's debts too.

Name one difference between us, other than that we are still in the honeymoon period. Prior to this summer, Moshiri had been very restrained. Now we are spending big, and this transfer is reckless. The money is our money. Everton's. It comes out of our accounts. It does not come out of Moshiri's pockets.

Steve Cotton
192 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:10:02
They did the same thing to Jim Hopper...
Jim Knightley
193 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:12:49
James – one significant question: How is Barkley clearly the better player from open play?

Sigurdsson is better. He has habitually scored more goals and made more assists for a lesser team. He doesn't have as many weaknesses as Barkley, he doesn't go missing in the big games, and he is more consistent. He is also a better set-piece taker, which is not something to ignore when it's such an essential part of football.

Barkley has 15 goals and 18 assists in the past 3 league seasons – Sigurdsson has 27 goals and 26 assists. It's comfortably better, and he has played for a worse team who have scored less goals.

If Ross played for a different team, no-one would be fawning over him. He won't become a top player – he hasn't got considerably better. He also doesn't want to play for us clearly – he will go to Spurs no doubt, for £25-30mil, and sit on their bench as a back up.

He is a lesser player than those boasted by our competitors, and has struggled to consistently perform under a series of managers, or to even consistently be a part of a weak England squad.

He hasn't said it openly, but he clearly wants out. Lukaku has got all kinds of vitriol on these forums, but he didn't come through the youth system, and he still returned a shit load of goals. Ross has got off very well considering, as many still believe in the myth of his potential, without acknowledging that the league boosts many better and more consistent players of a similar age.

We are of course paying too much, if an anticipated £45mil deal is agreed (Which it will be no doubt). And those who worry about our finances are right too – we do not have bottomless pockets and FFP is a factor.

I'd also agree that some of these deals will produce high agent fees. Yet – the tv deal has changed things, and we have sold well this summer, and Ross will leave too. Our sponsorship has also helped our revenue, and this window will do a lot to improve our marketability, and media exposure.

I think that a £50-80mil net spend is fair and sustainable after years of underspending, and I expect that we will make that. In the process, we will improve the team and the squad, whilst also having invested in a series of young players who can be part of the squad for years to come.

Don Alexander
194 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:13:16
Franny (#183), if I were you, I'd insert a buy-back clause!
Franny Porter
195 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:15:18
Steve, I see what you are saying but I jut don't think the comparison is fair to make. The finances are massively different now, hence ?100 fucking million for Lukaku!
Franny Porter
196 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:22:31
Don, I'll swerve the third-hand testicle.
Andrew Ellams
197 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:24:31
I think the question should be: If Barkley played for somebody else, who would you rather Koeman brought in this summer, him or Sigurdsson?
Jim Harrison
198 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:28:31
Too much, but to advance we need to spend and he is an achievable target. The Columbian lad would never have come to us at our current stage of development.

I am not up to speed on European football, but not sure who we could get with his record in a top league for £30 to 40 million? Happy to receive suggestions.

If he performs to at least the same level as last season he will add to goal threat form those scored himself and those he creates. At Swansea he was their main man. Everyone then must have known what he could do and could have singled him out. With us he will be part of what should be a better set up.

As for Barkley, sod him. Contract on the table. Didn't sign. Koeman is nasty to him? Look at the comments from incoming players regarding him influencing their choice. Morgan Schneiderlin too. Gana got dropped or pulled several times last season, got his head down and cracked on with his job. If he stays he will have to work hard to get in the team now, which he clearly is capable of.

Andrew Keatley
199 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:37:35
James (175) – Starting your post with "This is literally madness" only goes to show that you either do not understand the meaning of the word 'literally' or of the word 'madness', or both.

Is there not a world in which the consistently inconsistent Barkley is replaced by Sigurdsson, and instead of relying on Barkley's unfulfilled potential the team is able to find a greater level of balance via the reliable Sigurdsson? I think it's very possible. And if that improvement leads to trophies and/or top four, then it'll be money very well spent.

Everything has risk attached. We need a creative player; a string puller. Sigurdsson could be that player. He has Premier League pedigree, so the risk is less, but the price is more. Bringing in a cheaper option will mean other risks; not as highly-rated, not played in English football before – whatever.

Who knows what the right risk to take is? But while we seem to have money, I'd suggest bringing in the players that Koeman and Walsh really want – and think they can get.

I can understand those wanting the money spent on a striker. But I severely doubt we are going to be spending £50+ million on a striker, as those few strikers – at this stage – are not going to choose Goodison over other options. My guess is that the striker we will end up buying is going to be for £30 million or under.

Steve Ferns
200 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:40:33
We will be lucky to clear £60m from the Lukaku deal. Pogba was quoted at £89m, but all media outlets keep quoting Lukaku at £75m. Juve got less than £50m in their pockets for Pogba, that's almost half of the fee.

The money in football does not add up. So much goes missing in these transfers. Expect that to be the case in the Lukaku deal for the simple fact that Riola is involved.

John Otway
201 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:48:18
Steve. If you don't report directly in to Farhad Moshiri, then don't lose sleep over it!!
Shane Corcoran
202 Posted 13/07/2017 at 14:49:09
Andrew, to my dismay, the dictionary has actually included a second definition of "literally" in recent times. It can be used for emphasis. Sigh.
Chris Gould
203 Posted 13/07/2017 at 15:02:42
Interesting article in The Mirror stating reasons why Sigurdsson is worth more than £40 million.

The biggest surprise was that Sigurdsson ran 433 km in 2016-17 season, further than any other player in any position in the league. Bloody impressive and suggests that he works incredibly hard as well as being effective on the ball.

Some other stats that they list:

Only 1 player scored more goals than Sigurdsson against the top 6 last season. (Vardy)

In last 3 seasons only 4 players have more assists than Sigurdsson. All of those players play for top 6 teams and have better players all around them.

Sigurdsson has scored more free-kicks since his Premier League debut than any other player.

He had more assists from dead ball situations than any other player last season (hence our need for a Giroud type of striker).

Seems to me like he is worth every penny when considering how much is being spent on other players right now. Every Premier League club has more money than ever before. If we are going to buy from a Premier League team then we'll have to spend more. They're richer, we're richer. It's all relative.

Buying abroad may prove far cheaper, but they're unknown quantities if they've never proven themselves in the Premier League. We're getting a proven performer who will hit the ground running. With quality players around him, he may top the assist charts next season. Can't say he isn't worth every penny if he does that.

Andy Walker
204 Posted 13/07/2017 at 15:27:26
Please don't pay £40m + for this guy. It's a ridiculous price for a decent but not special midfielder who's only got maybe 2 years at his prime left. Far better spend 2 x £25m on a couple of other decent players. Swansea are trying to screw us, I hope we walk away.
Vince Furnier
205 Posted 13/07/2017 at 16:11:23
I think that if a majority of us on this forum disagree with the valuation of £50m then Swansea are bound to listen to reason and we will get our man for a much lower price.
Colin Glassar
206 Posted 13/07/2017 at 16:22:13
Vince, do you think a nicely worded letter might convince Swansea to lower their asking price? We could get someone to write it in Welsh as well.

If all ToffeeWebbers signed the letter I'm sure the Swans Chairman couldn't turn us down.

David Currie
207 Posted 13/07/2017 at 16:25:44
Agree Andy (#202), if Sigurdsson is great, like a lot on here say he is, why at the age of 28 is he playing for Swansea City? None of the top 6 are interested in him; none in Spain or Italy.

Only Leicester City have shown interest, maybe clubs are put off because he flopped at the only big club he played for – Spurs?

David Ellis
208 Posted 13/07/2017 at 16:26:08
Shane (#200), I literally exploded with rage at your post. But that's something I won't do again, literally.
Brian Williams
209 Posted 13/07/2017 at 16:36:41
I'll write it, Col!

Shane, you can let go of his bollocks now, literally!

Anyone seen Rooney's goal? Turn back the clock or what?? Expecting Seaman in goal!

James Macdonald
210 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:27:52
Andrew (#197), you need to broaden your horizons, literally.

Jim (#191) – the stats back up Barkley is a better player in open play. Take away the set pieces and Barkley whips Sigurdsson in chances created and passing range and actually his stats on tackling back are far better. He's also the much quicker and more effective counter-attacking player.

James (#187) equally (and possibly more likely!!) he might have less than 2 peak years left and chances are by Year 4 of his contract, aged 32/33 he may prove a massive drain on resources.

For those coming on with the line it is not your money... errr... you might find it could turn out to be if stuff is secured on future gate receipts etc. I am not against spending big but there this is wrong here actually irrespective of the Barkley situation. If however the reason Barkley is not signing is over £40k a week and the club really want him (as they said they did by making the offer) then madness is literally the right word here.

Chris Gould
211 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:38:52
James, are you still going to be part of Team Barkley when he moves to Spurs?

It makes no difference where each player gets their assists or goals from. Whether it's open play or set pieces they count the same. It's how many they get overall that counts. Sigurdsson's delivery is far superior to Ross's and it's a huge part of a playmaker's role. It's ridiculous to discount it. Sigurdsson also works harder for the team and ran further than any other player in the league last season! Which says an awful lot about his attitude.

Barkley's going. Get on board Team Sigurdsson. He's coming, and we will be a better team for it.

Brian Williams
212 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:40:22
To throw in another ingredient to the melting pot, I see Kyle Walker is going to Man City for £50m. Where does that one put Sigurdsson's alleged price?

James. "stuff secured on future gate receipts." If that were ever the case we'd be in deep deep shit. Gate receipts are a drop in the ocean that represent a minuscule amount of income compared with everything else. If we relied on those it would probably mean the Sky bubble had burst and almost everyone would be in the same boat anyway.

Andrew Keatley
213 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:42:38
James (#197) – Apparently I stand corrected on the word 'literally', now that Shane (#200) has explained how the sheer weight of people who were not able to use the word correctly have created the need for an additional definition into the dictionary. Well done for joining in.

Tony Abrahams
214 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:49:07
I don't know why I don't like stats, but for some reason it's different when people show how hard a player works, and it really makes me sit up, Chris@201. My own view on good footballers is that, if a player doesn't rely on pace, then he usually gets better with age.
James Hughes
215 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:50:17
Spurs are demanding £50 million for Kyle Walker and he doesn't score or assist that many goals. Just saying like...
James Macdonald
216 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:56:30
Chris (#209), well, they all count indeed but it also helps significantly when you are the penalty taker!! Strike off Sigurdsson's 3 pens last season and on goals it's pretty much a dead heat.

Brian (#210) the money Moshiri is pumping in will be in all likelihood on a loan basis to the club, possibly with interest. A la Abramovich he will probably never call it in but if he did (as theoretically possible) then the dung is on the fan. I am not sure we should just sit idly by and be blindly grateful for the spending.

I like Sigurdsson and will get behind him but he is not close to worth it. Then again £50 million on Kyle Walker is more insane still. I wonder if Levy will use a portion of the money to buy Ross?

Brian Williams
217 Posted 13/07/2017 at 17:58:40
James. If things remain mad then we should demand all of it for Ross.
Terence Tyler
218 Posted 13/07/2017 at 18:09:18
A few posts on here referring to him being 28 years of age and using that against him, he is actually 27.

His game is not built on pace, so nothing to worry about their. End of crap corner taking, which we have had to suffer for many years. Great free kick taker which we haven't had for years, good footballing brain in midfield which we haven't had since Arteta, and after 4 years service he will only be 31.

Get the deal done.

Mike Gaynes
219 Posted 13/07/2017 at 18:34:49
Sigurdsson has suddenly withdrawn from Swansea's US tour... reportedly just an hour before the team was scheduled to depart.

Quote from the Swansea Twitter feed: “Gylfi did not feel in the right frame of mind to travel due to the uncertainty over his future.”

Tom Bowers
220 Posted 13/07/2017 at 18:41:41
You're so right, Andy Walker. There must be a few equally good guys out there, some even younger who could do just as good a job for half the price.

If he has stayed behind then I hope it's for a deal with another club... probably Liverpool.

Mike Gaynes
221 Posted 13/07/2017 at 18:50:26
Swansea fans are letting their feelings be known.

From Planet Swans:

Only his loyalty would be criticised by me after he has basically said "I want out, stop dragging your feet" to the club. Means we'll lose out on up to an extra £10m possibly.

Exactly, throwing his toys out of the of the pram cause he can't get his way, nobody's saying that he hasn't be great for us, but he could at least show some respect

i hope Gylfi recieves no wages whlst the club is in America, precious git

From Jack Army:

Why do we have to go through all this B/S. he wants out,strange these "business" problems didn't raise it's head when he signed the new contract.I think he and his agent need to be told he goes when we (the club)get our total asking price,and until such times he honours his contract to us.
It's inevitable he's now going to go,so thank you for your "business" over the past seasons,and your comments how happy you are at Swansea.It's a pity our wage structure doesn't meet your business requirements.
I'm sick of this club being used as a doormat..

Frame of mind . what utter shit is that. If the Club's execs have not accepted an offer then - unless he is crocked and needs treatment - he packs a bag and gets on the fucking plane. He's supposed to be an adult professional not a child. This is getting ridiculous and sets a very bad example of the younger cohort.

Everything will now depend on how the money is spent.The last thing we want is another five five million pound players. The Americans have still not put a penny of their own money into the club itself.It will be interesting to see their attitude to this sort of money coming in. The one thing that is obvious. With £40m coming in forone player, they bought this club cheap at £69m.

Every poster is assuming the deal with us will get done within the next few days. They all want it done and over with in hopes their owners will spend the money on transfer business.

Brian Williams
222 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:02:25
Can understand their frustration. Some here felt that way with Lukaku.

It's a fact of Premier League football life that there is a food chain and where you are in that chain determines who you can bully and who can bully you.

Mike Green
223 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:16:15
Mike (#221) – all sounds so familiar, eh?
Peter Warren
224 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:21:16
Fair comments by the Swans.
Darren Hind
225 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:27:40
Interesting listening to people compare Barkley to this fella whilst being unwilling or unable to see beyond misleading stats.

When Sigurdsson was Barkley's age, he had no stats to speak of, He was an unknown struggling in minor leagues. He was given a fabulous opportunity by Spurs and, after having a good long look (two seasons), they off-loaded him because he simply was not good enough.

Covering a lot of grass is not important theses days, it's the speed with which you can do it. Sigurdsson must be the only footballer in the league who you wouldn't back to do Gareth Barry over 25 yards... As for these assists? Swansea have one of the best headers of a ball in football today; not only does he rise high, he travels through the air with power. Any player worth his salt would clock up assists knocking balls into him.

Barkley has been unfortunate. The only target he has had to hit for the past couple of years has been an unwilling and unintelligent mover. The rest of the team have been following orders not to break ranks – that's why none of them scored.

Barkley is faster, stronger has infinitely more ability to take men out of the game by going past them; he is younger and has further improvement in him.

The experts who so readily dismiss Barkley will be in for a nasty shock if he is allowed to go and play for a side like Spurs where movement and options are commonplace and encouraged by a coach who is vastly superior to anybody he as played for in the past. The Spurs fans, players and manager would love the way he ghosts past opponents... teammates would make him even more potent by providing decoy runs, support and options... although, after playing for Koeman, he may need time to adjust.

£50M is the sort of money you spend on star quality. I wouldn't pay half of that for a guy who has only ever proved to be a big fish in one of the smallest ponds in the Premier League.

Bill Griffiths
226 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:30:56
My own position on this is leave well alone and do the utmost to keep Ross. However, Koeman obviously doesn't want Ross and it seems unlikely he will be staying.

As far as Sigurdsson is concerned, I have my doubts as to how good he is and how much he is worth. However, both Koeman and Walsh appear to be singing from the same hymn sheet and value him highly.

Koeman made it clear some considerable time ago that his main two targets for the transfer window would be Keane and Sigurdsson so I can see why Swansea are holding out for as much as they can get out of us. I'm surprised that Burnley didn't manage to screw us for a bit more over Keane given the same circumstances.

If we are to sign Sigurdsson, perhaps we should be thinking if we do so, can he help take us to the next level and challenge for a top 4/6 place, rather than Is he worth £50m? Koeman and Walsh obviously seem to think he can so maybe we should go to the £50m if we have to?

If we do sign him and he helps to a top 4/6 finish, then I'ts all money well spent. If he turns out to be a flop then it's a waste of money whether its £35m or £50m.

Reluctantly, I would say if we do have to go up to £50m for him we have to back Koeman's and Walsh's judgement in this matter.

Mike Gaynes
227 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:33:45
Does indeed, Mike. Made me chuckle a bit.
Mike Green
228 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:36:28
Some people are moaning that we're not spending enough, others panicing that we're spending too much.

Chill......

The money is there and there's lots more of it too. Remember theres £300m+ to go on a stadium yet. Fear not...Usmanov is in the shadows...

Three things appear certain:

Koeman does not fancy Ross

Koeman does fancy Sigurdsson

Everton are in the mood for getting what they want

So - expect him in a blue shirt by the end of next week.

Personally I'm loving it. I was in a pub in Brum today with a Liverpool, West Brom, Wolves, Blackburn and Dundee fan and they can't believe what's going on with us at the moment.

The Phoenix is rising from the flames.

Moshiri wants Champions League football and he's going to get it.

Enjoy :)

Mike Gaynes
229 Posted 13/07/2017 at 19:37:08
Bill (#225), for what it's worth, there wasn't a single post on any of the Swans sites that said "He's shite, good riddance."

Interesting contrast with the debates here about the relative qualities of Rom and Ross.

Among the Swansea fans, there's no debate. From what I read, they will be 100% disappointed to see him go.

Frank Crewe
230 Posted 13/07/2017 at 20:05:39
In for a penny... in for 50,000,000 pounds.
Chris Gould
231 Posted 13/07/2017 at 20:13:49
Mike Green (#228),

That's my favourite post of the day.

Darren Hind (#225),

I agree that Ross is a fantastic talent, and I have always been a big fan, but he won't be here next season and Sigurdsson will. So I prefer to focus on Sigurdsson's many positives. I believe he will undoubtedly improve us.

Incidentally, I don't recall many occasions where Ross turned and drove away from the opposition last season. He looked like he'd lost a yard of pace as players easily kept up with him. It was the most exciting part of his game in previous seasons.

I would love to see him stay and benefit from not carrying the weight of being the team's only creative outlet. It's possible we'd see the best of Ross, but it's not going to happen. He's going and Sigurdsson is coming.

Eric Paul
232 Posted 13/07/2017 at 20:38:30
Darren @226

Absolutely spot on. With movement in front of him, he would be a world beater – and I hope it's with us.

Gordon Scott
233 Posted 13/07/2017 at 20:57:42
Not sure if it had been posted before and apologies if it has. But one for the stats lovers in here:

The stats that justify Everton's interest in £40m-rated Gylfi Sigurdsson

John Pierce
234 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:00:38
Darren, I've tended to find common ground in many of your posts but I think your post is a tough sell with Ross.

Ross arguably was at his best in Martinez's first season. The players in front of him have not until this summer changed that much, all his managers, both club and country, have either failed to harness the player or come to the conclusion something in his game does not add up. I think that's fair.

Ross is an individual talent to my eye, less the team player than many think. Built up on the many skills he has, his ceiling is very high. Surely a player with such ability should be held accountable for not affecting more games?

Despite Koeman's clear pragmatism, something you elude to, Ross was relieved of a central midfield position and allowed to roam from the right. I didn't see a player shorn of a defensive shackles dominating games?

Money is now irrelevant and whilst you can have your own value of a player, I think it has little pertinence to your argument.

Everton could easily have found a less expensive player but it is certain that Ross would replaced regardless of the incoming players price?

I can buy into several things, Ross has a huge sell on value (profit) simply because he cost nothing. But money seems to be the least of Everton's worries.

Has he been unfairly treated? Maybe... but I'd expect, even if that's the case, he might both still want to play very well for himself, and be proactive in resolving his contract situation.

Just too many doubts and question marks for me to invest in rescuing him as a player.

Jim Knightley
235 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:08:00
James (#209). What stats are these? And are you talking about chances or big chances? Because I've just looked at the stats and Sigurdsson has created a lot more big chances than Ross.

And set pieces are part of the game The stats that justify Everton's interest in £40m-rated Gylfi Sigurdsson why are you negating them? and Ross also takes set pieces and benefits statistically from them.

I also don't agree that Ross is a better tackler The stats that justify Everton's interest in £40m-rated Gylfi Sigurdsson made more per game on average, and won more (60% compared to 45% for Ross). Sigurdsson also works harder than Ross and clearly has more Stamina.

Sigurdsson is a better big game player and he has achieved his stats with weaker players around him, and in a team that scores less goals. The clearest indication is in those goal and assist stats I posted.

Tony Abrahams
236 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:12:15
I don't know much about Sigurdsson but, if he covered more distance than any other player last season, then I think it's a very impressive talent that he's got in his locker.

I agree that speed is very important in the modern game, Darren, I often wonder how Peter Reid, my favourite player, would do now? But a true saying in football, is that nothing moves faster than the ball.

If a player doesn't depend on pace, it usually means that he must be very good with the ball, and in the case of Sigurdsson, I hope so because it looks like he's coming to Everton.

I would like Barkley to stay and carry on improving with his consistency, but if he doesn't, then it will have been nobody's choice but his own.

I sometimes think that he might be better away from Everton, and if he does leave, then I definitely think,it will,be with Koeman's blessing, because when he was talking during Rooney's press-conference the other day, he was saying that he wants his players to show fight.

Sam Hoare
237 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:21:26
As others have said, so many of his assists (and goals) come from set-pieces.

If we are going to spend £40-£50m it surely needs to be on a playmaker who can create regularly from open play with set-piece prowess being a bonus.

Swansea have had the likes of Llorente, Mawson and Others in recent seasons to capitalise on Sigurdsson's free kicks and crosses but we as yet have few players (other than Mori and maybe Jags) who really dominate in the air. Maybe if we get Giroud or Benteke then it makes more sense but, for that money, I really want someone who does more from open play.

Andy Crooks
238 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:34:32
Excellent post at 226 by Darren Hind. Ross is special and if he goes to Spurs or Arsenal it will be to our detriment. Obviously, if he wants to leave then that is it, but in my view it it will be hugely disappointing.

Sigurdsson is a good player but I am astonished that anyone would see him as a £ 50 million player or as a replacement for Ross Barkley.

I know it is not our money but compare Lukaku to Sigurdsson, their ages, their potential. To me, watching us overpay for this player would feel extremely disappointing.

Graham Mockford
239 Posted 13/07/2017 at 21:56:36
Darren Hind,

I disagree about your assessment. But that's not really the point.

We are going to find out. Sigurdsson is Koeman's and Walsh's number 1 target.

Deal done in the next four days for £45m.

Barkley gone at the end of the window.

Fran Mitchell
240 Posted 13/07/2017 at 22:11:33
I'm pretty sure if Sigurdsson was English, Spanish, German, Argie etc then there'd be a good deal more optimism here.

To those saying his stats are too dependant on set-pieces. I would say that, well, in a crap team (and last year they really were a very crap team, and pretty crap the year before) set-pieces are usually a focal point. So he excelled in what the manager wanted.

He was probably the only reason Swansea are still in the PL and that is why they value him so high, they know that even with a £100million they will never attract a similar level player.

Also, for how long have we been groaning after corner and free-kick after corner and free-kick has been wasted? So I'm happy to see us deal with that.

Ideally we get him and Barkley stays also.

Gavin Johnson
241 Posted 13/07/2017 at 22:14:32
My main gripe with this deal isn't that Swansea are well and truly pulling our pants down. Sigurdsson isn't worth more than £30m even in this inflated market. It's just that I can see the bottom falling out of everything in a "Villa under a Randy Lerner" kind of way, and Moshiri will tighten the purse strings if some of these signings don't come good.

We've been here before at Everton when agent Johnson spent big on Collins, Dacourt, Materrazzi, Unsworth and Bakayoko. It was exciting times for a few months until the wheels came off.

Of course the football landscape's changed and, while I don't see us being in a situation as bad as things were under Peter Johnson, or Villa under Lerner, I can see Moshiri becoming reticent about the amount of money he puts in if players like Sigurdsson don't do the business.

Hopefully this kind of backing will become the norm now and money will follow money. The profile of the club is rising so we don't have to worry so much about over paying and we'll get used to the club spending big in the windows. Until that happens, I'm still a little paranoid that this summer will be a one off unless we make significant gains in the league or cups.

I see Man Utd want to buy Nainggolan from Roma. For £50m that's the kind of player I'd like us to be buying. I'd hazard a guess that he wouldn't even cost £50m.

Dermot Byrne
242 Posted 13/07/2017 at 22:21:45
£90m in end for Lukaku. Are we...? Oh who knows!
Don Alexander
243 Posted 13/07/2017 at 22:33:43
Eliaquim Mangala, Angel di Maria, Andy Carroll, and many other hugely expensive acquisitions have proved to be well short of what their "top" clubs though they were buying. It happens.

It'll probably happen to us too, but in the meantime with the sea-change in attitude from Mr Moshiri we might just win something and/or qualify for the Champions League, by the end of the 2018-19 season at the latest.

Champions League qualification is what "the project" demands. The only one leaving if it fails to materialise will be our Ronald, not Mr Moshiri, as far as I can see.

James Macdonald
244 Posted 13/07/2017 at 22:48:28
Andrew (#212), I think you might find that is exactly how language develops but literally your linguistic savvy does not validate your opinion or diminish mine.

The underlying facts are I am on Team Barkley, you are not – why go off script?

Mike Green
245 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:00:25
I agree Don (#245),

In Rooney's press conference Koeman referenced the pressure Rooney knew he'd be under coming back and I think from memory eluded to the same being for himself.

Moshiri bought 'the last great English football club' available to put it back on the map. It might be a personal thing that will give him great satisfaction or a commercial venture where he can make a huge return if he turns us into a European player with a great stadium at the top of the game.

That is his aim though. That's why he wouldn't let Koeman say no. That's why we're not moving out of town and it really looks certain we're going to have a stadium on the docks. That's why Walsh is here. That's why, in his first real window, Koeman has had more money than anyone has ever had at Everton to throw around.

Moshiri is going for it on all fronts. Koeman is an essential part of the plan but if he doesn't deliver for his £6m a year given the backing he's getting, I'm confident Year 3 will be his last year and someone else will be brought in to deliver, with a much more believable 'project' to come to than the one Koeman jumped aboard on.

We might still be well behind Man Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs and Liverpool but we are gate crashing the party like an uninvited guest. Our performances will be everything ultimately but we couldn't have shown much more intent and I for one believe it is all very real.

Kevin Tully
246 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:17:25
I never like to start a post with an expletive, but fucking hell, what is wrong with some Blues? Are you that used to living off scraps for 20 years that spending actual money and competing is now actually viewed as putting the club at risk?

No, off-shore loans which put the whole club up as collateral was putting the club at risk FFS!

You are the homeless guy who wins the lottery, looks at the prices in the Ivy, then takes the bus to McDonalds in case you end up back on the streets.

We'll rake in about £130m when everyone is shipped out and spend about £150m. Bring it on!

Don Alexander
247 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:22:10
Fuck off, Kevin. Telling it like it is to all TWers will never catch on!

Hopefully. :)

Brian Williams
248 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:25:19
Kevin. Don't be so fucking positive!!!
Kevin Tully
249 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:28:53
Is right lads... give the ball boys a grand a week as well.
Mike Green
250 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:32:24
Precisely, Kevin Tully.

I genuinely think Year 1 for Koeman was the Year of Evaluation. See what he's got and see what he could do with them. And that's why he stood impassively for most of it looking on thinking:

'Shite, shite, shite, shite, shite and more shite.'

I even think he talked up Rom just to get the price up.

He's now taken the squad sheet and with Walsh gone:

'Him, him, him, him, him, him and him.'

He's said they're after two more players – one is clearly Sigurdsson and the other I imagine is a big centre forward – and then he says he'll be happy and then it's:

Year 2 – My Turn.

Playing with the big boys.

Brian Williams
251 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:34:09
Kevin. They won't go for a cut in pay, mate.
Jim Knightley
252 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:39:51
I like that Lukaku is to blame for Barkley's failures now! For some reason, Llorente, who hardly moves a lot, makes Sigurdsson look better statistically (and he has only played there for one season), but Lukaku with his 25 goals makes Barkley worse.

Given that Barkley failed to make an impression under several managers, or in the England set-up, and is frustratingly inconsistent, I wonder if it has less to do with Lukaku and more to do with him? Plenty of attacking midfielders have done well with all kinds of strikers in front of them.

But as Graham said – it's done. Sigurdsson will come here for £45M – Ross will likely go to Spurs for £25-30M. And Ross will not start at Spurs - he is miles behind Eriksen and Alli. He won't play in Central Midfield because he hasnt the defensive ability and nous, and because Wanyama and Dembele offer the strength and defensive ability Spurs thrive on.

When Spurs play 4-2-3-1 he will have a shot at starting wide, but that's not his position. He will also face competition from a quicker and more direct Son, and from a skillful Lamela, if/when he recovers from his phantom long-lasting injury.

The best thing for Ross would have been to sign a new contract. Instead he will go and do what a lot of young English players have done – sit on a bench behind more talented attacking players.

And if anyone claims Ross is better than Alli or Eriksen... well open your eyes.

Darren's comment about Sigurdsson being slow is true though. It's a fear of mine next season. If we accommodate him and Rooney, where is the pace coming from? Sandro is quick at least, but I'd like another speedy striker too. Baines has lost pace and we are missing Coleman.

I think Lookman, who has a wonderful future in front of him, might become very important. If we do play Sandro, Rooney, and Sigurdsson with regularity, it might be worth putting a bet on Everton to score the most goals from outside the area next season.

Don Alexander
253 Posted 13/07/2017 at 23:40:09
Mike Green, that's precisely what I thought listening to him and watching him all last season, and frankly I agreed with him.

I'll bet my right bollock that Finch Farm has a very different atmosphere this coming season. Millionaire players just turning up is history, and about time too.

David Barks
254 Posted 14/07/2017 at 03:39:32
If Walker is being bought for £50 million, then Gilfy is worth the £50 million being asked. Just get him onboard. I was actually against it earlier when it seemed he was the type of player happy to just earn a living in a crap side.

But now it seems he does want to move and be challenged so I'm all for it. He's a talent and we need to remember we wouldn't be signing him to be our savior. Instead he would be a piece.

Mind you, we would still need a top quality striker in addition to him. But at this point just get the man signed and in an Everton shirt. Barkley doesn't want to stay so good luck to him. I don't begrudge him but he didn't deliver or grow the way he needed to, but we still offered him a contract.

As opposed to Lukaku who improved each year and delivered the goals that were needed (and yes, I know, and he knows he still has room to improve his game).

So if Barkley wants to try somewhere else that's his right. He worked through terrible injuries as a youngster but his game has just stalled. He's just so slow with the ball. Maybe he'll make that next step.

I'd love to see him develop into a star here. But if you just look at it objectively, Gerard and Lampard weren't being dropped from the England team at the age of 24.

James Watts
255 Posted 14/07/2017 at 04:59:41
All good points, Jim (#254).

I don't really buy into this idea that Barkley will improve in a better team with lots of runners. His decision-making in picking up those runners will still result in the wrong pass most of the time or being too slow to pick them out. And if that argument were true, why wasn't he better with England and the other clubs he's played at? They can't all have static Lukaku-type forwards with no runners from midfield. Surely!

Ross and/or his agents have put him in this pickle. Going to Spurs would be a backward step as no way on hell will he make that starting 11. He'd be a bit-part player at best. He should have bitten our hand off with the contract we offered if it is indeed £100k a week as again I can't see Spurs paying him that when you have their main stars on around £75k a week. Just doesn't add up.

Sigurdsson every day of the week for me, even at this absurd price. Gives way more overall than Ross does. With pace not being a big factor in his ability, he could be a main stay of our team for a good 4 maybe 5 years.

It's a real shame for Ross as at 24 and the ability he has, he should be a superstar. Sadly, he's going down the same path Rodwell and others have.

Mike Green
256 Posted 14/07/2017 at 05:14:20
Good posts, David (#256) and James (#257) – sadly very true.
Nigel Gregson
257 Posted 14/07/2017 at 05:25:46
Darren Hind (#226) – I am in agreement with you. There is a strong case to save the £50m and use it on someone else and give Ross another year. He'll be a lot better with Schneiderlin, Rooney and Klaassen around him.

Unfortunately, Ross doesn't want to stay from the looks of it with his contract shenanigans. But even so, surely we can find a genuine creator in the Silva mould somewhere else for that kind of money. Even Mata cost less from what I remember.

John G Davies
258 Posted 14/07/2017 at 06:01:46
Kevin (#248),

Well said. In a nutshell I couldn't give a fuck how much Sigurdsson will cost. And I couldn't give a fuck how much we get back on Barkley.

That's if Barkley goes. Clubs are hardly forming an orderly queue to sign him.

Sam Hoare
259 Posted 14/07/2017 at 07:03:36
Link

Worth noting that Gareth Barry created as many chances from open play last season as Sigurdsson!

71 players in the Premier League created more than him from open play last season. He obviously takes a great set-piece but arguably we are not well lined up to profit from that with few regular headed goalscorers. Unless we are to buy Van Dijk and Giroud...

This just doesn't seem the right fit. For that money, we need someone creating more reliably from open play.

James Macdonald
260 Posted 14/07/2017 at 07:13:44
Sam (#262) – really interesting article reflecting other info I have seen looking behind the stats.

Interestingly, between Baines, Barkley and Mirallas they created just as much from set pieces as Sigurdsson did last season. It is clear that if Sigurdsson comes st the expense of Barkley then we will be a far less productive team.

If Moshiri has been advised Sigurdsson will get us Champions League football and is prepared to sanction £50 million on that basis, then oh dear because that won't happen, unfortunately.

James Watts
261 Posted 14/07/2017 at 07:34:25
James (#263).

"It is clear that if Sigurdsson comes at the expense of Barkley then we will be a far less productive team."

You don't want Sigurdsson, we get it. But what a load of crap that statement is. Barkley was frigging useless for 2/3 of the season. Quoting stats is only half the story. Productivity in terms of goals and assists is only half the story.

What about the numerous times Barkley gave the ball away? What about the numerous times he stood there like a lemon with the ball at his feet having no idea what to do before giving the ball away? What about the numerous times he lost the ball and just strolled back to defence as an afterthought?

Sigurdsson is currently a much better all round player than Barkley is. Anyone with half a football brain can see that. Which in turn means will be a much more productive team than when Barkley was in it.

I hope Barkley fulfills his potential. And fulfills it with us but please – saying things like that, just plain daft.

Joe Clitherow
262 Posted 14/07/2017 at 07:47:32
I love the way 21st Century football makes everyone a professional statistician... Lies, damned lies and statistics. If it were so simple every team would be managed by Deep Blue.

You do realise Koeman has 30+ years of professional football experience don't you? I'm sure statistics play a part in his and Walsh's decisions but I have a sneaking feeling they are secondary considerations. More likely important confirmation than a primary selection criteria.

Perhaps he thinks Sigurdsson is just a better fit for his team than Barkley based on how he wants to set up? A radical view maybe but perhaps part of his decisions may also be some thought on footballing brain/decision making and character/will to win?

Pretty difficult to capture on Opta but I'm equally certain those things were major factors in his decision to bring back Wayne. I doubt Evertonian sentiment was that high in playing a part there for either Koeman or Moshiri (although probably first thought for Bill).

For all his ability, I have quite strong doubts nowadays over those two aspects of Ross's make-up, which is really sad, as I have been as eager as anyone for one of our own to become a world star in a blue shirt. I don't really see it anymore though.

James Marshall
263 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:06:44
I have no idea if this has been posted here but well worth a read:

http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11671/10947289/gylfi-sigurdsson-to-everton-is-the-swansea-man-value-for-money

Chris Williams
264 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:06:47
Joe, as you say, I'm sure Everton have every analytical tool that a club operating in the 21st Century requires. Equally, they employ, and have recruited a team of analysts who can interpret them. (Apparently Walsh has a 'large' team, presumably including a few analysts.)

So, given that, Everton are seemingly going ahead and busting a gut, or at least their transfer record, to sign him. As you have said, perhaps this is because other factors come into play in the signing of a player.

If we sign him, and pay out a large sum, I believe all the relevant analysis will have been done, including the stuff being referred to. Then we can all judge the evidence of our own eyes.

James Marshall
265 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:09:14
Also, I just saw that Man City are paying £50m for Walker, a right back. Sort of puts the market into perspective.
Tony Abrahams
266 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:26:34
Thanks, Joe, common-sense prevails!
James Morgan
267 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:37:10
James, £50m for a right back that can't cross or £50m for a playmaker who can score and assist? I know where my money would be, though I appreciate Man City are richer and need a right back.

Those statistics that Sky produced on Sigurdsson are interesting, one of the keys probably for Ronald is the lads work rate.

Plus, why do they say he's 28 when he's not 28 till September?

Andrew Ellams
268 Posted 14/07/2017 at 08:39:06
Man City look as though they are about to pay £100million for two full backs, but then just being Man City inflates every price. Is that what we are moving into?
Ian Hollingworth
269 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:11:28
Firstly, let's get one thing straight: I like all of you would love nothing more than Ross Barkley to be a world beater and performing in an all conquering Everton side.

We need to be pragmatic and I am afraid Ross Barkley is not the player we were hoping he would turn out to be. It is not just Koeman who thinks that but also the last 3 England managers.

If Ross wants to move on, then so be it, but where is he going to go and play week in week out. If he wants to stay then great but he will need to perform to get in the new Everton team.

The money for Sigurdsson is way over the top but so was Lukaku's fee and most of the ones happening at the moment.

You cannot argue with Sigurdsson's productivity and my view is that if Koeman wants him in his plans then I am happy to go along with the ride.

Andrew Ellams
270 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:24:30
I know Wiki isn't the most reliable source, but Sigurdsson's page on there says he will turn 27 in September.
Eric Myles
271 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:24:30
James (#268), pity Hibbo is not still playing, we could get £100 mill for him!
Eric Myles
272 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:37:47
Jim #255, it makes a change from a few years ago when it was a former manager that was holding Barkley back. Even when he couldn't get into a Championship side.
Sam Hoare
273 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:49:09
I'm not a big fan of Ross but an out of form Barkley created over twice as many chances from open play as an in-form Sigurdsson last season.

Of course statistics are not the be all and end all; Swansea were an inferior team, but surely that provides some indication that the Icelander is not necessarily the key to free-flowing productive football at Goodison next season.

He'll take some good corners and free kicks but I'm looking for someone who will get the ball in the middle of the park and thread the intricate through-balls or reverse-balls that open up a defence. Not saying that Barkley is that man but I'm not convinced Sigurdsson is either...

James Morgan
274 Posted 14/07/2017 at 09:57:43
Andrew, 27 now, 28 in September.
Shane Corcoran
275 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:03:43
James, he's seven weeks from being 28. So he's 27 and 11/12ths.
Chris Gould
276 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:25:27
Sam, do you not think Koeman, Walsh, and all of their analytical team will be aware of what Sigurdsson will bring to the team?

Sigurdsson will not be expected to play the same role as Ross did. Poor Ross had sole responsibility for creativity and it was too much to expect. Sigurdsson is being brought in to compliment other players that will also provide creativity, such as Klaassen, Sandro, Rooney.

He won't carry the burden Ross did and will provide us with a more disciplined performance and world class set pieces. He also created more 'big chances' than Ross last season.

I would assume 'big chances' mean chances that should have resulted in goals. This was in an inferior team who had far less possession of the ball than Everton.

Mike Green
277 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:26:05
A symbolic illustration could be comparing what Iceland achieved in Euro 2016 against the odds with Sigurdsson in their squad, to that of the England team they knocked out with Barkley in their squad.

The Iceland team had something that you cant necessarily coach or bottle and that's what Koeman is spending his money on.

Paul Tran
278 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:28:51
I'm loving this thread. The dying embers of the Moyes financial mindset and some strange comparisons.

Sigurdsson v Barkley? Nah. The latter appears to want to leave. We need midfielders. The former is a good overpriced player who creates chances and scores goals. Buy him.

We could crash like under Johnson? Nah. The inheritor of his dad's hamper empire bought three players for a poor manager that didn't gel, looked at how much it would take to make us successful and went back to the hampers. Moshiri knows football, has wiped the debt, brought in a long term recruitment team/strategy that makes managers more expendable. And he's building a stadium. We'll only crash if the whole game goes with us.

Villa, Leeds, Portsmouth crashed because they did too much too quickly and placed too much trust in inadequate managers. I like the way Moshiri is doing things in business terms.

We used to shop at Arkwright's. Now we're shopping at Waitrose. Some of us think we should be going to Harrods. We can't, yet. That'll be the next step – if Koeman brings success.

Buy Sigurdsson. If Barkley stays, fine. If he stays and improves, great. If he goes at the end of the season for free, he'll be a footnote.

John G Davies
279 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:34:34
Paul Tran,

Perfect post.

Dermot Byrne
280 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:39:20
In a nutshell, Mr Tran.
James Watts
281 Posted 14/07/2017 at 10:48:49
Indeed Paul #281. But I'm sure there are some posters in here with their head in the sand marching back toward this post with an arm full of stats which prove Barkley is a way better player and is only behind Pele and Maradona for talent.
Chris Williams
282 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:00:45
I see that the owners of Swansea have issued a statement giving Sigurdsson the chance to reconsider, that he's going nowhere unless the valuation is met and giving a warning about tapping up. The report says they are angry about the public pursuit of their player.

In the meantime Everton have said absolutely nothing in public from the outset.

Not as if it's like Mourinho, Cahill and Terry with Stones is it?

I suppose it's for Welsh consumption .

Antony Matthews
283 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:02:21
Koeman is building a a team who will hate to lose not like the previous teams who didn't give a toss. A team of winners with a different mindset.
James Morgan
284 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:15:18
True, Shane! His decline is imminent!
Brian Williams
285 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:20:21
Not sure you can be accused of "tapping up" if you've made a reasonable bid?

Having said that I think the club has been very clever with the bid, it merely matching that of Leicester, allegedly.

The cynic in me thinks Everton will now hope that the player himself will help keep the price down by his actions. A case of who blinks first methinks.

Edit. Some sources suggesting Everton not actually made a bid but arein negotiations. I'll just shut up.

Thomas Lennon
286 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:21:26
If I remember correctly Leeds & Portsmouth ran out of money, had to run their staff & teams down to save money, which inevitably reduced their income and so on, round and round into the ground, stopping in the Championship?

Everton aren't even in the red over this summer.

There would be a problem if we were relegated – such is the risk taken on by all in the Premier League.

Sam Hoare
287 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:32:27
Chris @279 what are big chances and where's that information from?

I blimin' hope messrs Walsh and Co have analysed the stats and more but since when did that mean that fans on a football forum have to agree?!! Presumably some professionals also analysed the likes of Niasse and McGeady.

I'm sure Sigurdsson will do okay, he's reliable at what he does, but in my (unprofessional) opinion at that price there are better players, better suited to what we need.

I'm sure we'll get him and the proof as ever will be in the pudding.

Danny Halsall
288 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:42:17
"I'm not a big fan of Ross but an out of form Barkley created over twice as many chances from open play as an in-form Sigurdsson last season."

How long are we going to make excuses for him though? Stats are great, but if you actually watch Barkley play throughout the season I reckon you could count on 1 hand how many good games he has had. That isn't just this season, it's pretty much every season.

So I'd argue that he isn't out of form, that IS his form, it's the best we can expect from him, he is limited. Sigurdsson would me a suitable upgrade in my opinion.

Chris Gould
289 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:53:13
Sam, I have no idea what 'big chances' are. The Premier League website credits Sigurdsson with 16 and Ross with 9. So Sig has almost double.

I assume that the 'chances created' stats are barely chances at all because Ross is credited with 82!! 8 were converted into assists so 74 missed opportunities apparently. I can't even recall half a dozen goalscoring chances that were missed after good work from him.

I'm a Barkley fan by the way. I just think the 'chances created' stats are nonsense. What do these statisticians count as a chance?

I'm assuming 'big chances' means goalscoring opportunities that should have resulted in a goal.

As I said, I don't think Sigurdsson is coming here to play the same role as Barkley. He's adding creativity but isn't solely responsible for it. He's far more disciplined than Ross and works harder. He's a Koeman type of player.

As a former world class set piece taker himself, Koeman understands what Sigurdsson can bring to the team. However, if we don't by a striker who is a beast in the air and possibly another centre back that can head the ball then his impact may be minimal. If Sigurdsson comes then Giroud is a must.

And yes, the proof will be in the pudding!

Robin Bateman
290 Posted 14/07/2017 at 11:59:49
Maybe not the right thread but this made me mad!

http://www.teamtalk.com/news/everton-misled-new-signings-suggests-former-liverpool-star

Eric Myles
291 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:12:10
Chris #292, maybe those 74 missed opportunities were down to Lukaku's first touch??
Jay Wood
292 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:15:14
Robin @ 293. Cracker!

David James quoted in the Daily Star. A marriage made in heaven.

"Twat, meet Twatty."

Pinkies getting twitchy, methinks.

Robin Bateman
293 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:20:30
Seriously, what a bellend David James is.

Does he really think that incoming players were not aware of the Lukaku situation?

Does he really beleive that we are a one player team?

Grrr so cross!

Dermot Byrne
294 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:23:17
Everyone knows James's comments are just plain silly. If this is the depths ex- RS have fallen too, it is a time to rejoice 😁😁😁😁😁
Eric Myles
295 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:24:05
We're apparently the bullier this time, rather than the bullied.

Gylfi Sigurdsson: Swansea 'won't be bullied' over wanted player

Steve Ferns
296 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:37:51
I thought Ross did quite well last season. The season before is dismissed as a terrible season, but it wasn't. The first half of the season was great. He was doing fantastic and then about 2/3 of the way through the season, Ross and everyone in the side, had their form go off a cliff as the team fell apart and Martinez was sacked. Such was Ross's form earlier in the season that he still finished with an impressive 8 goals and 8 assists.

Last season he scored 5 and made 8 assists. But let's not forget that he had one goal taken off him, by the dubious goals panel, as it took two deflections before going in. For me, that should have stood as Ross's goal and then he weighs in with 6 and 8.

We played a variety of formations last season. Ross played a variety of positions. He had been settled in the 4-2-3-1 formation as the middle man of the 3, the number 10 role, just behind Romelu. Who was mainly to his left? Well we didn't really have a settled player, but the player there most was Mirallas. Well I say there most, but Mirallas doesn't play on the left wing so much as play from there. He's hardly ever where he's meant to be, and often coming inside.

How many times would Barkley have the ball but Mirallas but actually running too close to him to get the ball, usually surrounded by defenders. That is when Mirallas was actually moving, as he is often also stood still. What he does not do well, is move off the ball and look for the pass.

Then to Ross's right, we again had no settled player. We tried Bolasie (as well as being left early on), Deulofeu, Lennon, Ross himself, Valencia as sub. There was nothing for me, on the right until at the end of the season when Ross occupied the role. Up top was Rom, and we all know how static he was.

In the first 25 or so games of the season, Ross did have something to his right, Coleman. Coleman weighed in with 3 assists. Ross had a hand in most of them as well as most of Coleman's goals. After Coleman was injured we struggled to go forward in a cohesive way, but that is down to the personnel we had than Ross himself.

The XI most played players last season were: Robles, Coleman, Jagielka, Williams, Baines, Barry, Gueye, Davies, Mirallas, Barkley and Lukaku. I have moved them into something of a formation. Barry is a great passer, but he faded badly as the season wore on, and was replaced by Schneiderlin.

Schneiderlin is a great player. He is not, however, a great long passer of the ball, nor is he someone who can link up with Barkley and move the ball quickly up the pitch in tandem. He gives it simple, quickly, and short and holds his position.

Gueye is not the best offensive player, his range of passing is limited, his skillset on the ball is limited. Mirallas I have discussed above. Bolasie was someone new to the team, showed flashes of what he can do, played both flanks, did link up well with Ross, then was out injured. Davies is going to be a fantastic player, he's all action, but what he is not is a player with great offensive vision. He cannot see a pass like Ross can, and he did link up quite well with Ross but it was not great.

At the end of the season we were playing 4-3-3. Let's imagine Koeman keeps that, and plays something like:

Sandro, Rooney, Barkley,
Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Gueye,
Baines, Williams, Keane, Coleman
Pickford

Now I know Coleman is injured, but if you let that one go for now please. We have a key four attacking players here of Sandro, Klaassen, Rooney, and Barkley. I have watched so many videos of Klaassen recently, and I have read a lot about him. I am very excited about him and he was very highly rated by the late Cruyff.

He played higher up the pitch yesterday than I anticipate he will do in the season. He has to play centrally, He lacks speed, but he is not slow. He just does not have searing pace to get away from defenders. I think he will be our key player for the season.

Our back four should be same old, with Keane coming in to add legs to the creaking centre. Schneiderlin will operate just in front of them, slightly to the left with Gueye five yards or so slightly to his right and further forward. Schneiderlin dropping into the back four to defend when needed and stepping out with the ball, which he does so well. Gueye scampering around and covering every blade of grass trying to close people down, shut down attacks, and win the ball back.

Klaassen should then be closer to those two, to receive the ball to move it quickly forwards. Sandro, should be on the left side of the pitch, stretching the defence and looking for an early pass, which Klaassen should be able to deliver.

Rooney will be more central in the number 9 position, but because Sandro is stretching play on the left, he is free to drop deeper and show for the ball himself. Ross will be showing for the ball in the inside right channel.

Suddenly, we have movement from those front four. We have options to pass to. Rooney can get the ball and turn and run. He can't beat people for pace so they will close down the shot. However, he can still turn a player as we saw yesterday so they cannot come too close. Which means he can thread a pass to Sandro or Ross. Klaassen will get forward. Ross will be able to get the ball in this channel and Rooney will be moving, he will not be stationary, he will want the ball. Likewise with Sandro. Klaassen will be getting into the box to get on the end of things, like Cahill.

This is a whole new team for Barkley. He can get on the ball and have three mobile dynamic players to pass to, and that's without including the maundering Coleman flying down the right wing.

The great thing about Barkley being in an inside right position is his feet. He is right footed naturally. He moves the ball with his right, the defender is looking to use his own right to get it off him, but this is a left back.

If he tries with his left, Barkley can skip around the outside of him easily. The left back will be terrified of showing Ross inside because he has that Howitzer of a left footed shot. For me, his shooting off his left is certainly more thunder some than those off his right.

Barkley, struggles when he thinks. He is an instinctive player. Martinez slowed him down too much. Made him put his foot on the ball. Stopped him dribbling too much. Made him pass more. There was good reason as Ross is one of the best passers in the league.

Don't be fooled by his passing stats, Ross tries passes that players shouldn't. He tries to thread it between 3,4 or 5 defenders. Okay, he often fails, but the times he succeeds it's a certain goal. And few players in the league can make the passes he can. And none of the players who can, can go past people like Barkley.

Defences have got wise to Barkley. They know how he will try to take them on, they know how he will pass. But this is because he has a lack of options, there has been a complete lack of movement ahead of him. He has to make something out of nothing. The only easy pass he ever has is Coleman down the right. and of course once he lost that he was often left with no options at all.

The options he will have at his disposal this season will see him not have to try to think as much. He can get the ball and lay it off fast. He is one of those top players who knows where people are before he gets the ball. He has already looked. Rooney will be alive to Ross, and will be able to make runs knowing that Ross can see the run and pick him out.

Rooney's lack of pace will not matter due to Ross's vision, his passing ability and Rooney's vision. Sandro will be a good outball for Ross to switch play as he often does. And Ross will know that he can roll it inside to Klaassen knowing that Klaassen can move the ball quickly. The one touch passing we saw that first season under Martinez where McCarthy would win the ball, get it to Barry straight away, he would find Ross with one touch and Ross would be away, that can be back.

Sigurdsson is a slower player, he does not take people on. He would have to go wide into a position where he will be ineffectual, or play centrally in a position where his lack of defensive qualities will be exposed, in a high pressing area, where he lacks the positional sense to do it effectively, and Klaassen would be forced to the right where his lack of pace would make him less effective, and many of his qualities would be reduced.

Also, if Sigurdsson is playing central, he will be falling over a central Rooney which would mean needing to move Rooney to a wide right role where he looked poor last season, Of course it is only one game, and it was against a team who were probably not even championship standard, but Rooney looked like a hungry 31-year-old, he looked good centrally and he looked like he will combine well with the likes of Klaassen, Sandro and Barkley.

Barkley could be in for the season of his life. Why can't we offer him a deal whereby we reach an accord along the lines of, one more year Ross, we will increase your wages, you extend your deal by 12 months, and we all concentrate on what is going on, on the pitch. If you feel happier in yourself, the team, your prospects, the ambition of the team, and likewise we are happier with you, then surely we can reach an agreement over a new long term deal.

Sorry about the rambling long post guys. But I feel strongly that we will be getting rid of a player who could be great, who can fit into the system, for one who is very good and does not.

John Otway
297 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:49:52
Why on earth would anyone take any notice of an ex RS who can't organise his own finances!! Also I don't believe Farhad Moshiri and his sidekick Sasha are going to be phased by a couple of gobby yanks. Just a matter of a little contractual finessing.
Craig Walker
298 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:51:13
There was a game last season which summed Ross up. He does the hard bit, beats a man and cuts in down the bye line in front of the Gwladys Street.

There's (I think it was Mirallas) unmarked awaiting a cut-back on the edge of the box. Does he have the vision and mentality to cut it back and give Mirallas a gilt-edged chance? No.

He tries to thread it through about 4 pairs of defenders' legs to reach Lukaku who is a couple of yards from the goal line. The ball hits the first defender and goes out for a corner. He constantly makes the wrong decision.

Steve Ferns
299 Posted 14/07/2017 at 12:56:11
Barkley never seemed to pass to Mirallas. Maybe he didn't like him, or maybe he knew Mirallas would just get tackled or boot it over the bar into the crowd. He certainly knew Mirallas wasn't going to pass it back.
Joe Clitherow
300 Posted 14/07/2017 at 13:07:29
Sam (#290),

"Presumably some professionals also analysed the likes of Niasse and McGeady."

Exactly my point. Our previous manager who bought those guys was absolutely obsessed with stats; seemingly utterly clueless about all other aspects of football management.

Including the only stat that matters: outscore your opponents more often than not.

Sam Hoare
301 Posted 14/07/2017 at 13:30:54
Very good post, Steve (301.

Very similar to how I see it, though perhaps I have a little less faith in Ross than you and would possibly advocate bringing in a more reliable player in the same mold. Though I do think Ross could benefit from a new team with more movement around him and less reliance on him as the creative hub.

John Pierce
302 Posted 14/07/2017 at 13:31:56
The crux of the Sigurdsson deal is not his ability, he has some quite specific skills that Everton lack. Set piece delivery and game intelligence stand out for me.

Compare just those skills with current Everton players and its clear why Koeman wants the player.

As for the price. Many posters believe its become prohibitive. Most posters also know we have to over pay because a) we have money to spend and selling clubs can leverage that b) premier league proven adds to the price

So as suggested why not get a better player if we are to spend a club record fee?

Lacazette and Silva went for a similar bracket, right? Everton are simply not in that bracket, yet, and its a reputation that needs to be reforged. I'd speculate if we wanted those players the fee would have been even steeper and the wages astronomical that it would immediately cause squad disharmony.

Despite the length of the courtship, its good to be on the right end of a transfer saga. A sign we are re-forging our tarnished reputation.

Steve Ferns
303 Posted 14/07/2017 at 14:00:00
Watch your £50m man in action:

Link

Link

Link

I'm not sure some of you have even seen the lad. I wouldn't pay £10m for him. It is pretty evident to me why he flopped badly at Spurs and why he would do so with us.

Brent Stephens
304 Posted 14/07/2017 at 14:16:00
Steve, just signed on to TW this afternoon and started to read this thread from the end upwards (often makes more sense!).

I guess your #308 post is dry wit? I started to watch the first link. All I can see is good! Is that him at his worst?!

Ditto second link! And the third link? You could have chosen his worst moments!

Steve Ferns
305 Posted 14/07/2017 at 14:21:37
I selected the best of him. Perhaps you see a different player than I do.

I see an awkward ungainly ungraceful guy who struggles to have full control of the ball, who does not pass the ball into feet and it bobbles about a lot more.

What I can definitely not see is a £50m player. There is so many more players out there for this kind of money who are not just so limited.

Here's an interesting data analysis of Barkley and Sigurdsson which casts neither in favourable light. The more I watch Sigurdsson, read analysis of players and journos about him, the more I can convinced that not only is he not worth £40m, that he is not good enough for a place on our bench.

Data Scout Analysis Sigurdsson v Barkley

Jay Woods
306 Posted 14/07/2017 at 15:08:32
I was initially very keen on us signing Sigurdsson but recent online analyses of his game, in particular the ones linked to in this thread which highlight his limitations compared with Barkley's, have swayed me now against signing him.

And I can only echo / parrot the mantra that he is nowhere near worth the asking price. Hopefully we'll be forced to look elsewhere.
Chris Gould
307 Posted 14/07/2017 at 15:15:22
We are now strong bookies' favourites to sign Giroud after WHU found out he isn't interested in them.

He's coming, and Sigurdsson is being bought to put the ball on his head. It's a match made in heaven.

Jim Knightley
308 Posted 14/07/2017 at 15:25:01
Chris - I wonder if giroud might be heading to France... to Marseille
Will Mabon
309 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:15:33
Any raise in profile by our thoughtful and potentially shrewd transfer activity so far will be completely undone by throwing away stupid money for Sigurdsson.

£40 million is already too much. 40-odd or fifty will have us looking like an infatuated teenager chasing a first crush.

Sigurdsson simply isn't worth it. I also suspect the price tag would weigh on him like £89 million has on Pogba.

Phil Walling
310 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:42:24
Cut Koeman some slack will yuse? Only once in a lifetime do average managers get to play 'Kid in a Sweetshop'. Some never do.

He'll have to hit the ground running with all he will have spent or us TWers will soon be on his case!

Brian Harrison
311 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:46:47
I thought £30 million was a lot for Sigurdsson, but obviously the club have raised the offer to £40 million if reports are right. I would not make any improved offer, obviously the fact he didn't travel with Swansea says he wants away. So it is Swansea who have a problem, they now have to convince him to stay if Everton don't increase the offer.

I would have liked us to make signing another striker a top priority as, if Sandro gets injured, we only have Calvert-Lewin as I think the days of Wayne leading the line have long gone. But I really don't want Benteke at any price.

Eddie Dunn
312 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:52:10
Swansea are asking far too much for him. They know we have just hit the motherload with Lukaku. The guy has picked us over Leicester, so it is a case of whether we can negotiate with the Swansea yanks. I like the player, but even £40 mill is overpriced!
Chris Gould
313 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:53:21
Jim, we're still the bookie's favourites. Although Wenger won't want him to sign for a rival. If he does sell us Giroud then it could be that he either doesn't particularly rate him, or he doesn't see us as a threat.

I have every confidence that we'll buy Giroud and Sigurdsson. I think that's been the plan for a long while and both players are well and truly tapped up.

Jay Harris
314 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:58:03
Chris you beat me to the point.

I agree with you.

I'm of the opinion both have been pursued for quite a while.

Andrew Keatley
315 Posted 14/07/2017 at 16:59:22
Steve (#306) - Hard for me to trust your judgement now that you've said you wouldn't buy Sigurdsson for £10 million.

I think most fans of this club who have been regularly watching Premier League football for the last five years, and who acknowledge the current state of the British transfer market, would welcome Gylfi in for £10 million. The fact you wouldn't makes me think we are watching two different games altogether.

Darren Hind
316 Posted 14/07/2017 at 17:01:46
Had a scan down the thread, but I don't see where anybody "blames" Lukaku for Barkley's "failures".

Lukaku had a fantastic season, probably the best he will have, but anybody and I do mean anybody, who watched Everton will know that he was often guilty of being either unable or unwilling to make the intelligent killer run for his midfield. Many of his goals were down to his own individual power, or from cutbacks from overlapping full backs. and whilst Barkley would have been responsible for picking out overlaps, he did not get the assists.

There was no comparison made with Llorente either, Llorente was only mentioned because he is immense in the air and provided a perfect target and boost to his stats) for Sigurdsson's dead-ball situations

The reason there was no comparison made, is simple: there isn't one. In that aspect of his game, he is (pardon the pun) head and shoulders above Lukaku.

I smile when I see people use the fact that balloon-headed England managers didn't select Barkley as some sort of proof that he doesn't have what it takes... Do these people not realise what happened when Ross was left out? What happened to the hapless England team when he didn't play? We will never know how he would have performed if one of these balloon-heads had selected him.

The other moot point, is about Barkley not performing for previous Everton managers... perhaps someone will explain why he got to be recognised at such a young age in the first place?

I simply cannot understand those who say they do not care how much we pay for a player. We are not Man City or Chelsea. Yes, we are operating at a higher level than in the past, but our war chest is not inexhaustible; a wasted £50m (if that's what he turned out to be) would still be absolutely catastrophic for this club and Moshiri.

Every penny still counts. We are trying to fund a new stadium ffs and still having to sell what are considered our premium playing assets to fund these arrivals. This Nouveau Riche, fuck-the-expense attitude is about as short-sighted as it gets.

Meiz Jones
317 Posted 14/07/2017 at 17:32:36
Swansea are clearly digging their heels in over this, and their valuation matches how important he is to them (which is fair enough; he has quite a long contract). He is, and you can't argue, their best player. That said, I feel £50 million is way too much; when James Rodriguez (who plays in a similar position) has gone for a reported £30 million(ish).

Personally I feel we should be looking at other priorities like another forward and a left back.
Players I would like us to buy:

Left back: Baba Rahman (loan from Chelsea) would be great cover for Baines, and every time I have watched him I have been thoroughly impressed.

Centre back: Would love Van Dijk, but that is probably just a pipe dream.

Forward: Giroud would be what we are looking for, but may be better options out there. Unsure of who though.

Wonder what will happen with, and whether we stick Rooney, or Klaassen their instead..

Stephen Brown
318 Posted 14/07/2017 at 17:41:08
Got to agree with Darren!

I'm from Swansea so see a lot of Gylfi play. Good player yes! £50m player- no!

I thought Steve Walsh was supposed to find the player as good as Gylfi but at reasonable price!?

I'm in the keep Barkley camp! Easily as good but won't cost us £50m! Put the money towards a top notch striker! Or the stadium ?!

Trevor Tannenbaum
319 Posted 14/07/2017 at 17:49:12
Stephen (#319). Can't we sign him, a striker and a new stadium. We don't have to be careful with money like we used to.
Keith Owen
320 Posted 14/07/2017 at 18:08:07
Steve (#298). A great analysis of formations but with one significant error; Sigurdsson is an Everton player. Full stop.

I have it on absolute authority that he has been courted at the Titanic Hotel with all his entourage at least 2 weeks ago.

Barkley is history, we now only need to haggle over the price to get rid of him. Accept it, mate – he's history and if we get 75% of the money from his sale to cover the Sigurdsson fee then that's great business for me.

So the writing is on the wall. Koeman wants a "big fella" up front, the same as he had with Pelle at Southampton to hold the line. Giroud is the obvious answer with Sigurdsson as one of his main providers. Simples.

Stan Schofield
321 Posted 14/07/2017 at 18:41:24
A lot of good posts on this thread have highlighted the analysis of statistics to compare Sigurdsson with Barkley, and no doubt such information is used extensively by the club in deciding whether or not to go for a player. That said, the information is only one input to what Koeman and Walsh get paid primarily to do, which is to use their experience and broad judgement on who better fits in with the tactical aims of the manager.

You can do all the analysis in the world, and use it to voice an opinion of how much a player might be worth. However, if Koeman really wants Sigurdsson, based primarily on his judgement, then I can't see Everton not paying Swansea £50M if that is the amount needed to sign him. Obviously, Everton will try to negotiate a better price, but even if the eventually agreed price is below £50M, it's unlikely to be much below what Swansea want.

Even though Sigurdsson is 27, it's difficult to see a £50M price tag seriously putting Everton off. The next two seasons are crucial in this so-called 'project', and surely Koeman's (and Moshiri's) primary aim to get the best team that is most likely to gel, to maximise our results, during that time. It strikes me that next to this aim, comparing the individual performances and skills of Barkley and Sigurdsson is only part of the story, and not necessarily the most important part.

Will Mabon
322 Posted 14/07/2017 at 18:42:09
If you were proved correct Keith, that would be another signing completed a fortnight or more before acknowledgement, following Rooney's case.

Should it be so, it would strengthen my personal suspicion that there is deliberate dramatization being played out – so I hope you're wrong.

If you're right, I hope it's not for a silly fee.

Will Mabon
323 Posted 14/07/2017 at 18:47:30
I agree that there's more to it than bare statistics, Stan. However, I take a guess that a breakdown in the relationship between Koeman and Barkley is as relevant as other aspects.
Gordon Crawford
324 Posted 14/07/2017 at 18:59:40
I think we should look at other options.
John G Davies
325 Posted 14/07/2017 at 19:05:47
£45-53 million, depending on which report you look at, for a right back shows the level of transfer fees being paid. Walker, a half-decent right back agreed, but fees across the board are increasing.
James Macdonald
326 Posted 14/07/2017 at 19:18:28
I am with Team Barkley, no question, but if he is fucking off and just waiting for Levy to do his skeggy magic, then I am all for Sig! However, paying anything over £40 million for him is literally madness – an asylum-inducing decision... call the men in white coats for Walsh.

Incidentally, I am far from convinced of the merits of Walsh – any old person playing Fifa 17 could make these signings. I think he just got lucky with Kate, Varde, Mahrez... okay, maybe not.

Jay Harris
327 Posted 14/07/2017 at 19:25:02
Who is worth more:-

A player who really wants to be a part of the project or a player who doesn't want to be a part of the project.

Using my eyes rather than statistics Barkley and Lukaku were the weak links in the sense of not holding the ball up and not closing down or winning the ball back.

Sigurdsson does far more than score or provide assists – he helps out with the defensive side of the game and covers an enormous amount of ground. No-brainer for me between the two.

Now if the question is could we do better for £50m I would probably say yes but just comparing the two players – one is a luxury player the other is a team player, and therein lies the difference.

Andrew Keatley
328 Posted 14/07/2017 at 19:34:59
Jay (#328) – Completely agree. That is all.
Lev Vellene
329 Posted 14/07/2017 at 19:38:22
I would hope this can be solved quietly, at no loss of face for anyone. Sigurdsson had plenty of offers before last season, but he decided to stay and help his team stay up. And they survived! As he also signed a new contract, that was seen (mostly by outsiders) as a way to ensure Swansea got decent money back if anyone came in for him the following year.

So, the question is, does Sigurdsson really want to go this summer? Swansea owes him something for his loyalty, like when they let Williams go, but are they willing to hope (maybe in vain) for anyone to pay £50m, and thus make him disgruntled if that does not happen?

Colin Glassar
330 Posted 14/07/2017 at 20:06:50
It's really boring when we don't buy anyone. Oh well, looks like we got that geordie kid from Newcastle.
Jeff Armstrong
331 Posted 14/07/2017 at 20:30:17
Wiki, 2016, "amid rumours that Everton where willing to pay £25 million for his services"...

12 months on, they're asking double... double that fee; absolutely ridiculous – he's 12 months older for fuck's sake!

He had a blinder last season... not. Big Ron is having a laugh by dropping a list on Walsh and Moshiri and just saying "Whatever it costs..."

Terry White
332 Posted 14/07/2017 at 20:40:47
Gordon (#324), please name some realistic options.
Chris Gould
333 Posted 14/07/2017 at 20:52:16
Terry, that's a fair request. One that I made earlier in the thread. I still haven't seen who these cheaper and better options are. Apparently they're out there?
Sam Hoare
334 Posted 14/07/2017 at 21:27:53
Terry, Chris. Here are a few names, some plausible, some less so. Whether they are or might become better players is obviously very subjective.

Mahrez
Lanzini
Fabregas
Keite Balde
Emil Forsberg
Zakim Hiyech
Thomas Lemar
Jean Serri
Gelson Martins
Ryad Boudebouz
Brozovic
Fekir
Max Meyer
Felipe Anderson

Sam Hoare
335 Posted 14/07/2017 at 21:34:54
Brahimi and Perisic just crossed my mind too.
David Currie
336 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:21:10
Brilliant post, Steve (#298),

I would love to see Barkley stay and play with these better players. Sigurdsson is a No from me and has only done well at a small club. he flopped at Spurs because he is a limited player.

I will throw one name out who is way better and will become a top player: Christian Pulusic from Dortmund.

John Mckay
337 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:30:00
Sigurdsson for £50m is daylight robbery – so is Barkley for £50m.

I'm thinking that with the new stadium about to get signed off an built now is the right time to invest silly money into the squad. Remember when Chelsea started throwing money around, they paid well over the odds then for the likes of Scott Parker and Duffy, maybe they were just buying their competitors' best players, so winning the league was easier for them.

When the new stadium is built we need to be in a position where are team is at least challenging for the top 4, it's hard for us to attract the real top top talent at the moment but in a year or 2 when our team is vastly improved and we are challenging for top 4 and he shiny new stadium is up and running players of a higher level will want to come.

Yes, Sigurdsson is not worth £50m but we have to throw money at the project to get it up and running. New stadium and great playing squad with be the difference to getting a Chang sponsor or a emirates sponsor... Just saying. Instead of getting £3m a year the sponsor will pay significantly more.

Look at West Ham – they had their chance to capitalise on their new ground; players were ditching us and going to them, Ogbonna for instance. They didn't do enough then and now they are in shit street and can't attract any decent players.

Chris Gould
338 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:31:09
Sam, I think the concern with most players on that list is that they have zero Premier League experience. We already have Klaassen and Sandro coming in as unknown quantities. It will be a risk to bring in another. We need players who will hit the ground running.

A few on that list would never come to us and others simply aren't as good as Sigurdsson (obviously, as you said, that's subjective).

I think we have to assume that Koeman and Walsh are aware of all these players. I believe they want Sigurdsson for his specific qualities and the players you list are very different. Sigurdsson's dead ball quality is world class. It's very likely the best in the league. It's a skill that shouldn't be underestimated, but requires us to have the right players to make the most of it.

The players on your list that I really like probably wouldn't come to us. We're on an upward trajectory but aren't going to be first choice for Lemar, Perisic, Fekir, or even Fabregas. Half of these players have been linked to Arsenal. Perisic is Man Utd bound.

Mahrez is a completely different kind of player and will have his sights set on a champions league club.

Hakim Ziyech would be someone that Walsh and Koeman must have watched when scouting Klaassen. Obviously not the type of player they're looking for.

I do agree that £50 million is an absurd amount of money, but I think that's what proven Premier League quality is going to cost, as every club has more cash than ever before.

Ron Marr
339 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:36:39
I'll be gutted if Barkley leaves, a Liverpool-born lad playing for Everton, living the dream. But, at the end of the day it's not the ultimate 'gutted' which was when Alan Ball left.

Anybody else concerned about the tough start to the season with no Seamus and Williams at centre-back? Come on, management – keep the Endless Summer of transfers going, Van Dijk or similar for starters.

Denver Daniels
340 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:50:53
Way too much. Surely we could get a superstar on the continent for that amount.

Immobile from Lazio to replace Rom and Alejandro Gomez from Atalanta for goals and assists.

Or top up the £50mil and throw it at Belotti.

Brian Williams
341 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:52:18
Long as he's Immobile by name only!
Denver Daniels
342 Posted 14/07/2017 at 22:59:41
Don't care if he's a statue, Brian. As long as he can find the net.

It's all gone a bit quiet since the hooplah of the Walsh visit to Italy. I wonder if any deals have already been struck? I hope so.

We are paying over the odds for players in this league. We need to find some value for money abroad.

Christy Ring
343 Posted 14/07/2017 at 23:01:26
Steve (#298) – Superb analysis.

I believe Barkley offers a lot more than Sigurdsson, who is no where near a £50m player. He stood out at Swansea, Wow. He's great at free kicks, clever, but what does he do, outside the 18-yard box?

Barkley brings the ball from our defence, dictates the play, totally involved. He deserves to be given a chance with Rooney and Klaassen. At worst he'll go on a free next summer, it's better than £50m down the drain.

David Barks
344 Posted 14/07/2017 at 23:26:51
Christy,

If Barkley stays he won't be on the pitch with Klaassen and Rooney, he'll be on the bench. Did that slip you mind? Barkley doesn't dictate games, he can't even make the England team as a reserve.

Sandro, Mirallas, Klaassen, Rooney, Schneiderlin, Gana. That's your starting midfield and forwards. No Barkley. Davies, Lookman, Calvert-Lewin, Barry, Jagielka and Stekelenburg on the bench with Barkley.

Chris Gould
345 Posted 14/07/2017 at 23:42:55
David, Mirallas really sticks out as a weak link in your line-up. I hope we get a couple forwards in before the season starts.

Barkley is going. I think we need to all accept it and look forward. He doesn't want to be an Everton player next season, for whatever reason.

I think it's clear that Walsh and Koeman have planned very well for this window. We have secured so many targets incredibly quickly. I'm sure they were always aware that 2 or 3 would require more patience, but I believe they have chosen these players to fit into specific roles. If we buy Sigurdsson then they obviously feel he's a vital part of the system.

Considering how well they have dealt with this window thus far, I'm prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt with Sigurdsson. It seems crazy money, but they are clearly looking for certain types of players and we have to assume that Sigurdsson has the qualities we need.

Just like Barkley is certainly leaving, Sigurdsson is coming. So we should focus on the positives and get behind a player that clearly wants to play for us.

Christy, it wouldn't be £50 million down the drain. In the current climate Sigurdsson is certainly worth £35 million and we'll likely get £25 million for Ross. Overspending by £15 million on Sigurdsson means that we're effectively making £10 million on Ross. That's still better than hanging onto him for a year and getting nothing for him when his contract expires. Plus we'll have a quality performer in Sigurdsson.

Barkley doesn't want to be here and is likely to spend a lot of time on the bench, so best to take the money.

David Gallant
346 Posted 14/07/2017 at 23:43:38
"Surely we could get a superstar from the continent" – Sure, you mean like Shevchenko, Veron, Kezman and a host of others who came to England with a big reputation and failed. This is what people don't understand, the Premier League is a different animal altogether. To succeed in it you need to be able to adjust to the physicality, the pace etc. Even top-class players from the continent are not necessarily going to do that.

To those who lament that 'for 50m you could get better' – no doubt there are superior players to Gylfi out there. Question is, would they adapt to the Premier League immediately (if at all)? Another question, would they be interested in joining Everton?

As others on this thread have said more eloquently than I, Koeman seems to have a specific plan, and that includes being able to spread the goals throughout the team, and to have different ways of attacking the opposition. I suspect Gylfi and Giroud (or similar) are very much the final pieces of this plan and if we get those two in, we'll be able to seriously hurt teams next season.

Finally, Paul Tran – one of the best posts I've read on TW (and there have been some crackers on this thread alone) – cheers mate!

Christy Ring
347 Posted 14/07/2017 at 23:51:44
David,

I wouldn't worry about the England team; when Southgate picks Livermore and Dier ahead of Barkley, that says it all. Last season, whether you like it or not, he was the one player who tried to make things happen... did that slip your mind?

David Barks
348 Posted 15/07/2017 at 00:24:58
Christy,

That's because they were better than Barkley. As the one player trying to make things happen, he might have had more success if he didn't take 5 seconds to turn with the ball.

Dier was far superior than Barkley last season, albeit in a different position, but you brought him up. Dier also seems to be in demand, as opposed to Barkley.

Dan Davies
349 Posted 15/07/2017 at 00:50:00
Barkley, I would want him to stay, as a local boy done good. I would be made up if he signed a new contract and fought with pride for the shirt.

However, if he decides to leave to further himself not just as a footballer but as a person then fair play. One day maybe he'll do a Rooney!

Until then... welcome, Gylfi! (signed by Monday)

Peter Warren
350 Posted 15/07/2017 at 06:17:28
Christy, I want Barkley to stay but yourcomment about him staying one more season being better than £50m down the drain I just don't get. I suppose you must mean spunking £50m on Sigurdsson. Mourinho got it write when he said Pogba will be regarded as cheap in a year or two (despite underperforming).

I think you undervalue / dismiss how good Sigurdsson is. He is a super player and I'm sorry but he dictates play far more than Barkley. He also covers far more ground and his stamina is superior to Barkley. His finishing is better too.

Barkley has unbelievable natural skill and untapped world class potential. I would love him to stay and fulfil this but, if he's not signing a contract (for whatever reason), then no point him staying. I would, rather like Koeman, prefer he went now.

Julie Oliver
351 Posted 15/07/2017 at 08:39:24
Anything over £25 million for this 28-year-old is madness, there is no resale value at all and he may have already peaked as a player.

The bulk of his assists come from corners! Surely we can get a good corner taker cheaper than £50 million.

I am certain that there are better options , better players which will be better for the club primarily on the pitch and secondarily make more financial sense.

At the prices Swansea are quoting, say "Thanks... but no thanks" and walk away.

Sam Hoare
352 Posted 15/07/2017 at 08:41:58
Chris (#336),

His set pieces are very strong undoubtedly but can we afford to have a player in the team just for free kicks and corners? With Rooney and Sandro already fairly able in their delivery?

As for the players on my list we can't be sure. I reckon a £50m transfer fee and £100k+ p/w would get you most of them. As for them being courted by Arsenal or Man Utd, well those are the teams we are trying to overtake! Surely then those are the players we need to be aiming at.

It will be difficult to overhaul those teams by only buying players they deem not good enough. I appreciate it's not that simple and maybe we're not there yet but I hope we would at least try; as I've said, for the money being talked about I think we need to demand more than set-piece expertise.

Martin Nicholls
353 Posted 15/07/2017 at 09:05:36
£50million is obviously a huge amount of money and at that price Sigurdsson is quite possibly way over-priced however if you (in our case Koeman) want something enough and the current "owner" doesn't want or need to sell then you end up paying over the odds.

That is a fact of life, but why justify criticism of the price by denigrating the player by inferring that other than dead ball skills, he offers nothing or claiming he's older than he actually is? As others have pointed out, he is something more than a dead ball specialist and, having been born on 8 September 1989, he is 27 years old, not 28!

Chris Gould
354 Posted 15/07/2017 at 09:59:16
Sam, undoubtedly Sigurdsson is far more than just a dead-ball specialist, but we will be overpaying by £15 million. I trust that Koeman believes he is the right player for the system.

I understand your point about buying players that teams above us want, but we need to be realistic. At the moment, we're the best of the rest and can beat off competition from the likes of West Ham Utd. But as in the case with Lacazette, we aren't going to beat the likes of Arsenal just yet.

We will have stealthily enquired about some of the players on your list, of that I have no doubt, and we would have been politely told by their agents that we have zero chance. We worked out targets that were interested and very impressively got them in early. These negotiations would have begun months ago.

Sigurdsson and Giroud will have been tapped up weeks/months ago but it was always going to be more difficult as their clubs don't want to lose them and, in Giroud's case, Wenger doesn't want to sell to a rival.

A big concern with paying such a huge sum of money for Sigurdsson is the pressure he may feel to justify such a huge fee. It could weigh heavily on him and certainly the fans will expect him to weigh in with plenty of goals and assists.

I have no idea if he has the type of character to deal with that.

Adam Scott
355 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:25:00
David (#344),

You say 'would they adapt to the Premier League?' Such a defeatist argument. What exactly do people think the Premier League is? Some hoofball league? It isn't 1976 any more. It isn't overly physical really in comparison with most leagues. 15 years ago, yes, you maybe had a point. Not as much now though. I watch a bit of Siere A. This idea that the Premier League is miles quicker than other leagues is rubbish, perpetuated by people who don't really watch other football.

It is slightly quicker, more competitive and slightly less technical than most other leagues. When you are talking top players though (those at around £20m or more) you expect that they adapt.

For all of your players who have failed, way more succeed. Firmino, Coutinho, Mata, Silva, Sanchez. The list goes on mate. Even at our own club think of people such as Gana. The Premier League is not the graveyard of foreign players.

James Macdonald
356 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:27:32
Dan (#347), spot on. I have a feeling Ross wants a new challenge and I wish him the best of luck. I seriously now doubt it is about money for him.
Steve Ferns
357 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:28:56
I posted some analysis of Sigurdsson and Barkley above. it is scathing on both, particularly Sigurdsson. The guy does not pass well, particularly difficult passes and therefore doesn't create enough. There's more analysis on Sky which is about whether he is overpriced and ends with a warning to us.

Then there's the raw stats, so what – he runs a lot more than Barkley; defensively he's terrible. So what's he actually doing with all that energy?

Then there's what my eyes tell me. Sigurdsson takes too long to control the ball. He's not as fluid as kKlaassen, Rooney or Barkley. He doesn't have their touch. The three of them and Sandro can bring back some lightning quick attacks with delightful one-touch passing. In the same time Sigurdsson would have controlled the ball got it out his feet and layid it off sideways.

I want a lot more than him for £50m, someone who is better in open play. Someone who is versatile, with quick feet and can accelerate the attacks – not slow them down.

Adam Scott
358 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:33:49
I want a lot more than him for £50m, someone who is better in open play. Someone who is versatile, with quick feet and can accelerate the attacks not slow them down.

Exactly my views as well, Steve.

Steve Ferns
359 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:34:23
If Barkley is gone, then why not look to the target of last summer. Brahimi, an exciting winger who could play either side of our front three.

We could then complete the side with a striker, either Dembele, Bacca or Dolberg for me. And we wouldn't have spent much more than we would have on Sigurdsson.

Andrew Ellams
360 Posted 15/07/2017 at 10:49:07
If you want a quality player who is available and cheaper than Sigurdsson, then Barcelona have told Rafinha that he can move on. Younger and top notch but, unlike Sigurdsson, not proven in the Premier League. Cold Tuesday night at Stoke and all that.
Jim Knightley
361 Posted 15/07/2017 at 11:36:32
It is odd, Steve, to criticise Sigurdsson and then to identify Brahimi and Bacca as targets!

Brahimi is luxury, generally without an end product. His reputation has survived off the back of one Champions League performance, but he has struggled since and will add less to our squad than Deulofeu.

Bacca is a limited striker on the way down who also appears clumsy – he'd come in as a 1 in 3 guy in the Premier League, and will not improve us. Sigurdsson is comfortably better than both and we wouldn't have to pay two sets of wages.

Have you seen much of either player?

Steve Ferns
362 Posted 15/07/2017 at 12:08:15
I've seen lots of Brahimi. I am a regular visitor to Portugal. And he plays on the wing. Bacca plays up top. Neither are direct competitors for Sigurdsson.

Sigurdsson plays best as a number 10 in a 4-2-3-1. He doesn't fit into a 4-3-3. I think we should be far more concerned in filling the right hand side of the 4-3-3 as we have Rooney, Bolasie and Barkley who can play there. One is gone and one is injured. The other lacks pace. That's where Brahimi gives us an option.

And, if you watch the Portuguese league, you'll have seen that, whilst he is an infuriating winger, he produces 2 or 3 pieces of magic per game.

James Marshall
363 Posted 15/07/2017 at 12:25:01
Having read the actual stats on Sigurdsson, personally I don't think he's worth the money, but then is Kyle Walker worth £50m either?

The inflated fees don't truly represent player value anymore in my view – they're just worth whatever someone is prepared to pay for them, and are essentially meaningless.

Is Sigurdsson any good? Will he improve our team? Does he offer anything we don't already have at the club? Possibly not, and possibly yes. Rooney is a dead-ball specialist as well but will Wayne play every game? Probably not.

A lot of people on here have mentioned him agitating to get the move done, but hasn't he already done that by refusing to go on tour with Swansea?

Steve Ferns
364 Posted 15/07/2017 at 12:30:54
And Jim, I selected targets that Steve Walsh is supposedly after, and if you've followed my previous posts, you'd know that I would like us to gamble, and yes it would be a gamble, on Kasper Dolberg.

Sigurdsson can only play in 4-2-3-1. He doesn't fit in to a 4-4-2, a 4-3-3, a 3-4-3. To play 4-2-3-1, we'd see Coleman negated as the right back has to defend more than attack. We'd need out and out wingers. Not people like Mirallas. Lookman, Lennon and Bolasie are all we have.

We'd need a top deep-lying playmaker in the mould of Xabi Alonso or even Mikel Arteta. Rooney would be looking to vie with Sigurdsson for a position as he couldn't play wide in a midfield five, nor could he be the isolated target man needed to run and win balls in the air.

Sigurdsson is wrong on so many levels.

Tony Abrahams
365 Posted 15/07/2017 at 13:25:41
I thought your graphs were hard to understand, Steve!
John G Davies
366 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:04:40
Steve (#363),

Did you consider Arteta a top playmaker?

I never saw him as a creator of chances.

Matt Edwards
367 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:18:10
Steve, I really enjoyed your stats – very insightful. Although I always place most emphasis in actually watching a player and getting a real feel for their footballing ability and brain, the stats add some 'facts' to our opinions on players and are therefore very useful.

I don't like Sigurdsson's stats at all! I completely agree with your thoughts and feel we need a bit more pace and trickery in the final third. I'd like a player who can also play that final intricate pass. I hate to say it but someone like Suarez! (I know, I know but I've said it now!)

Steve Ferns
368 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:19:09
He wasn't for us John. He was shoved out onto the wing and tried to dictate play from there.

When he first arrived from Sociedad, that was his position. We did play him there in his first six months before shifting him to the wing.

However, Whilst Arteta had a top defensive midfielder along side him in Carsley, he didn't have a Number 10 to combine with. We had Cahill who, great as he was, he was certainly not a Number 10. We also lacked wingers or width as there was no one to hug the touchline and pull the defence wide.

I think a young Arteta could play the role. He had quick feet. He had a good range of passing, long, short, fast, into feet, into space. He also had good vision. He also was able to run with the ball which means he could create his own space if the pass is not immediately on.

An older Arteta played more centrally for us. But he'd suffered his knee injury and had slowed down a lot. He also infuriated me by putting his foot on the ball at the wrong time and missing out good movement in fast breaks.

The question i wonder was that a lack of vision on his part that he didn't see it, a lack of confidence to think he couldn't pull off the through pass, or instructions from Moyes to play safer, to slow things down and keep shape so we didn't get ripped apart if the pass didn't come off.

He later played there for arsenal and was a shadow of the player we had.

With different circumstances, better teammates more suited to a 4-2-3-1, then I do think he could have played the position to a very high standard.

Andrew Keatley
369 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:31:02
Steve (363),

Your assertion that Sigurdsson only fits into a 4-2-3-1 is not fair.

He might well fit best in that formation, but suggesting he couldn't play at the forward tip of a midfield diamond in a 4-4-2 or a 3-4-3, or as the more advanced of the 3 midfielders in a 4-3-3, limits him in a way that is hugely reductive.

Most modern footballers have to be flexible. I doubt many people expected Victor Moses to be such a success as the Chelsea right wing-back, but when given the opportunity he excelled. Keeping an open mind can lead to unexpected rewards.

For me, 4-3-3 is going to be the formation that Koeman will want to use the most. One of those three midfielders (most likely from Barry, Schneiderlin and Besic) will play slightly deeper than the other two (from Davies, Gana, McCarthy, Klaassen and Barkley), allowing the two centre halves to split to make a back 3 when we are in possession – in turn encouraging the two fullbacks to advance up the wings. Sigurdsson could easily play in one those two more advanced midfield roles (in the same way Lallana used to for Southampton under Koeman).

John G Davies
370 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:41:21
Yes Steve,

A lot of Blues consider Arteta to be something he wasn't. He was a player who kept the ball moving but not a creator.

I can't remember one occasion when I saw him put a player in one-on-one with the keeper through a clever, incisive pass.

Dermot Byrne
371 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:44:55
Nice one, Steve (#303): ya links sold him to me!
Denis Richardson
372 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:46:36
Agree with most £40-50m is crazy money but then again the league has been on crazy money for a few years now. This crazy money went on steroids last season when the new sky deal kicked in. Sky will pay the Premier League something like £5.2 billion over the next 3 years. Previous deal was for £3 billion to put things into perspective.

As with most walks of life, it's easy come easy go where moneys concerned. Clubs only have to avoid going down to hit the jack pot, every year. (Until Sky come to their senses anyway.)

So, on the face of it, £50m is mad, but then again so is the money we're getting from Sky – especially when you consider we've won nothing for over 20 years and finished 7th! £50m for Barkley is also mad as was £13m for Niasse.

If we pay £45-50m for Gylfi and we win a trophy or get into the Champions League, then it would have been worth it.

(We're also paying a certain Mr Rooney £150k a week in the hope he can still play at this level.)

Steve Ferns
373 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:49:21
Yes. He could play in a 4-1-2-1-2, Andrew. But no-one has played that since last century.

As for the midfield three in a 4-3-3. You have it upside down. Schneiderlin and Gueye both sit deep. With a box to box player slightly ahead of them. A standard triangle rather than an inverted triangle. Barry doesn't anchor the midfield. Even when he first came and had more legs, that was more McCarthy's role. He was the one who was meant to drop deeper and interact with the centre backs. Barry was the one with better passing.

In the current side Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Gueye, and Davies will be the ones to play here. The more advanced position will be Klaassens, and he will be challenged by Davies and Barry. That's not to say they couldn't invert the formation on occasion but has an effect on the front three by pushing the two wider forwards wider.

Koeman lacks to play very narrow and that's why we had Barkley and Mirallas as the wider forwards in majority of the last several games of the season.

Sigurdsson could not play in the midfield three as he has no defensive skill. He would be required to get his foot in and tackle. He could not play as Davies did last season.

Also, when we win the ball he is required to shift it quickly. He doesn't control the ball fast enough. He doesn't have quick feet. He lacks the skill set to play this deep. Which means he'd have to play as one of the front three, presumably on the right.

Steve Ferns
374 Posted 15/07/2017 at 14:54:01
Denis, Sigurdsson would be our most expensive ever player. He would cost twice what Klaassen cost. There is no way Sigurdsson is a better player than Klaassen, let alone £27m better.

Spend the money on a player who deserves to be our most expensive ever player.

John G Davies
375 Posted 15/07/2017 at 15:19:40
Steve Ferns,

Good analysis tactically there.
Well thought out 👍

Peter Warren
376 Posted 15/07/2017 at 15:23:08
I'm surprised many don't rate this guy higher. Leaving stats and his cost aside and judging from my own eyes, he seems a top top player belonging in a team in the top 4. Every time I've seen him for Swansea, he ooozes class.

Transfers are always a risk: Bony, Michu (and say it quietly, Williams) I suppose, when looking at recent Swansea top players / transfers.

Steve Ferns
377 Posted 15/07/2017 at 15:44:26
Thanks John.
James Watts
378 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:00:59
Steve (#372),

"He doesn't control the ball fast enough. He doesn't have quick feet. He lacks the skill set to play this deep. Which means he'd have to play as one of the front three, presumably on the right."

You seem to be describing Barkley, not Sigurdsson! And yet you seem so knowledgeable on this guy. Have you watched lots of his games he's played? Are you a top scout with unbelievable knowledge on this player? Do you know better than Steve Walsh and his team? Many many many Swansea fans, who watch him, week-in & week-out, think he's class and not one describe him as you do.

You do realize we are looking at buying him to give us options and we'll as more threat don't you? Flexibility in tactics where he could play several positions. Like Rooney. Yes he's over priced but he's a class player no matter what you think and don't rate him. He's not Ronaldo, but he's better than what we have in an attacking role. Much better. Yes I'm talking about Barkley.

Some of what you say is correct, some of it is complete tosh. You don't want him. Fine. But I for one hope he signs, even at this silly price.

John Pierce
379 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:04:51
The value versus money is only relevant because what we perceive the player to be worth. We all know footballers aren't worth the money. That ceased to be genuine reason to object years ago.

We also know its about length of contract left and wages needed to pay it off. He signed a new contract last season. Posters banging on about it are simply using ignoring hes not being courted to be a messiah, or is in any way the complete player.

He's there for balance, to add to set-piece delivery, to add to our goal tally and to work hard. They are his strengths. He has no pace or dribbling skills and is not an open-play passer.

Comparing him to Barkley is laughable as they are completely different. Ross is a dribbler and runner. In an ideal world, you would have both.

Too many trying to tear a player down to justify keeping Ross in some last ditch attempt to keep their first love.

Sigurdsson is there like Rooney, like Klaassen, like Sandro to give us a higher level of depth, options to break teams down. Balance.

We have overpaid for many of our targets this year to (a) get business done early (b) give all the team a full preseason (c) raise profile across the football world etc.

Put simply, if Sigursdsson delivers his stats from last year in a new Everton team, he has strengthened our cause.

The frankly wild list of supposed alternatives are in the main completely out of reach, even if money is not the barrier it once was. Our reputation, especially in Europe, is a distant memory. There are sadly many more appealing lifestyle choices players make before a move to our part of the world. Many will use Everton to get a new contract or engineer their preferred move.

I'm no Koeman fan but its clear he wants to build a team not rely on one player.

We may not get Sigurdsson but I'd bet we will overpay for a similar player.

Andrew Keatley
380 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:05:35
Steve (372) - Who calls it a 4-1-2-1-2? Is that what the 4-4--2 diamond is now called? What about a diamond in a 3-4-3; is that now a 3-1-2-1-3?

Just to make myself clear, when in possession, bringing one central midfielder into the back four (to form a back five) splitting the centre backs and allowing the full-backs to function more like wing-backs - that is what I was suggesting. It may or may not be the way Koeman decides to do things this season but it would allow the width to come from the full-backs, and gives the two more advanced (not necessarily advanced - just more advanced than the more defensive midfielder) midfielders certain creative responsibilities in trying to link directly with the three front players and the advancing full-backs. I should think Davies and Klaassen fit this role well, and Sigurdsson would fit it very well indeed.

On Sigurdsson - it seems like you have made your mind up about what he can and cannot do ("he has no defensive skill"), and what formations are even possible with him in the team (especially since the midfield diamond is apparently now an extinct formation), so I look forward to seeing whether he comes, if he does where he ends up playing, and whether your claim that he can only play in a 4-2-3-1 holds any water whatsoever.

Trevor Peers
381 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:16:42
Steve @ 372;

"He doesn't control the ball fast enough. He doesn't have quick feet. He lacks the skill set to play this deep. Which means he'd have to play as one of the front three, presumably on the right."

That describes Barkley to a tee.

Eddie Dunn
382 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:22:13
Steve Ferns, along with James above, I question your knowledge of Sigurdsson's attributes. I live near Swansea and have a few mates who go regularly. To a man they swear he is a class act.

I have seen a little clip where he looks a bit clumsy, but we could probably put such a clip together of most players.What are your observations based on?

For instance you say with great certainty that he cannot play in a defensive midfield role, yet, I have heard that he puts in a shift and track runners all day long! I have also seen him put in a tackle!

Denis Richardson
383 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:33:16
Steve (#374),

Pretty much every transfer these days in the Premier League is for what we'd consider crazy money as we're comparing it to a few years ago. However, the landscape has changed. With sky there is so much cash sloshing around you can't really dwell on the amount being paid – it's all Monopoly money.

Sounds odd I know and I've tried to stop thinking about the fee and wage levels myself - in almost any other walk of life they would be simply ridiculous. Man City just spent £45m on a right back ffs.

Sigurdsson imo would definitely be a big improvement and would give us a midfielder who can actually deliver a decent ball into the box consistently. Something I can't remember is having for a few years now.

Besides, we just conned Man Utd to give us the best part of £90m so it's not like we're skint.

If Koeman wants him badly enough, he'll be in the squad soon enough.

Chris Gould
384 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:37:54
Steve, some of your comments about Sigurdsson are fair, but most are outlandish or utter nonsense. You can't compare his price to Klaassen's. They are different players with very different values to their previous/current clubs. Sigurdsson is a proven Prem player that we are trying to buy from a team that don't need to sell him and desperately don't want to sell him. Prices aren't set by a specific criteria based on ability alone. It comes down to the contract they are on and their value to the team they're contracted to.

As James says, I'm pretty sure Koeman and Walsh will have studied his attributes and know what systems he'll fit into. He is a class act who will slip seamlessly into various formations. I think Rooney, Sandro, and Sigurdsson will be able to rotate throughout matches and keep the opposition constantly on their toes.

He'll be a great player for us as long as he can cope with the pressure of such a huge fee.

Steve Ferns
385 Posted 15/07/2017 at 16:45:19
Andrew Keatley,

"Just to make myself clear, when in possession, bringing one central midfielder into the back four (to form a back five) splitting the centre backs and allowing the full-backs to function more like wing-backs – that is what I was suggesting. It may or may not be the way Koeman decides to do things this season but it would allow the width to come from the full-backs, and gives the two more advanced (not necessarily advanced – just more advanced than the more defensive midfielder) midfielders certain creative responsibilities in trying to link directly with the three front players and the advancing full-backs. I should think Davies and Klaassen fit this role well, and Sigurdsson would fit it very well indeed."

Are you saying this is how you want Everton to play or how they played last season?

Last season, Schneiderlin was nearly always on the left and Gueye was nearly always on the right. Davies operated between them but slightly further forward. We played very fluidly, so sometimes you will see Davies the furthest back, but with Schneiderlin's discipline he was often the one to snap back into shape quickest, be it on the left where he should be or covering on the right for Gueye. You are mistaken if you think that he was behind Gueye for anything more than a move. Go back watch the 20 minute highlights of any game and you will see this.

Eddie,

The highlights are there for all to see on Swans TV. Go watch him for yourself. Form your own opinion. But try to envisage how he would look with our players.

Ron Marr
386 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:17:34
Good stuff, Steve.

I think a left centre-back should be the priority

David Pearl
387 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:30:54
We played fluidly... ahem. Okay.

Schneiderlin was the deepest midfield player without any question. Gueye? I can't remember seeing him have a good game so far when he has started in the same team as Schneiderlin.

Sigurdsson? Yes, he is overpriced by a long way. But he scores goals, he makes assists. His dead balls are some of the best in the league. And... he doesn't give the ball away five times in a row!!

Mark Fraser
388 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:33:57
Personally I'd be happy with Sigurdsson but there is a player who I'd be happier with... Stick in a £50 mill bid for Hamsik and see what happens.
Andrew Keatley
389 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:35:14
Steve (#386) – I'm suggesting it as a tweak to how we often set up last year.

Really the point I am trying to make though is that Sigurdsson can fit into our team, and not just in a 4-2-3-1.

Andy Crooks
390 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:47:01

I admit that the past number of years have had me fretting over every penny. For example, McGeady's sale to Sunderland would have had me thinking, hey, I think we are £125 k short here. Now, it seems it doesn't matter.

So, is Sigurdsson worth £50 million? After all – it is not our money. To me, it is way too much, but I am from a different era. After fretting for years over money I feel uncomfortable at being ripped off. I would have been happier had we got another £500k for Lukaku.

So, do supporters need to worry about the long term future of the club? Or do we think, "Fuck it, let's just go for it"?


Steve Ferns
391 Posted 15/07/2017 at 17:49:58
Most teams play with a double defensive pivot for a reason, Andrew, particularly the top teams. And why change something that worked so well, as our defense was much improved?

The fact that we have six players who play these two positions tells me that Ron will not be tweaking it, and will be going with with it again.

Graham Mockford
392 Posted 15/07/2017 at 18:04:26
Link

Jeez Ashley Williams looked like he's enjoyed his summer

Andrew Keatley
393 Posted 15/07/2017 at 18:11:24
Steve – I'm really only talking about when we are in possession. I agree that when we have lost possession it probably makes sense for there to be two midfielders playing side-by-side in front of the two centre-backs.

The thing is though, I'd be dumbfounded if Koeman isn't going to tweak things. Whoever we bring in is going to have very different qualities to Lukaku, and the knock-on effect of that is going to be felt throughout the team.

I imagine that the full-backs will be encouraged to stay very wide (which happened in the game in Tanzania), and that there will be greater mobility (please God!) up front. But, whatever happens, I imagine that our midfielders will be aiming to contribute more goals to the team than they did in the Lukaku years, and having licence to play slightly further up the pitch might be the answer.

I don't pretend to know what will happen. I am just offering up my feeling of what could be possible.

John G Davies
394 Posted 15/07/2017 at 18:20:27
Andy, we say fuck it let's go for it.

I would be surprised if after balancing the transfer money from sales against our buys we have a deficit of more than £50 million.

Eddie Dunn
395 Posted 15/07/2017 at 18:20:48
Graham, it looks like Ashley was on an "All Inclusive" holiday!
Derek Knox
396 Posted 15/07/2017 at 18:43:31
He was Eddie, they had a pie-eating competition, or Man versus Food each evening, Ashley would have had a clean sweep for the week, but this lad from Wigan knocked him into second spot one night! :-)
Jay Harris
397 Posted 15/07/2017 at 19:04:48
I thought Jags looked a bit podgy too.
Dave Abrahams
398 Posted 15/07/2017 at 19:12:01
Andy (#390), yes, you are right to question the value being paid for players and are they worth it. Well, as John Pierce says above not many are worth what clubs pay for them but you will make yourself ill if you worry or fret about it.

Just look forward to enjoying these players in a few weeks time, I think we have plenty to look forward next season and the football will be a lot better, especially for the fans who travel away. They will, I expect, be coming home from these games with smiles instead of frowns.

Steve Ferns
399 Posted 15/07/2017 at 19:26:12
That's what happens anyway,, Andrew. If the ball is on the right, Gueye moves forwards. If the ball is on the left, Schneiderlin moves forwards. Regardless, Davies moves forwards.

I noticed Schneiderlin was a bit more reluctant to get forwards, but I think that is because of Baines's diminishing recovery speed. When Baines hasn't gone forward, Schneiderlin seems to be a bit further forward.

Steve Ferns
400 Posted 15/07/2017 at 19:30:46
Bakayoko just confirmed by Chelsea for just £40m.
Sam Hoare
401 Posted 15/07/2017 at 20:24:02
Leicester apparently want £30m for Mahrez. For me his pace and trickery on the counter fits better with what we need. Plus there'll be £20m left over to buy Giroud.
Jim Knightley
402 Posted 15/07/2017 at 20:34:10
Steve- Deulofeu also produced 2 or 3 bits of magic, and in better league's than Portugal. Brahimi would set us back £30mil and honestly, I expect lookman to be at his level in a couple of years and we have Bolasie returning in a few months. I don't see the point in the buy.

And whilst I think Sigurdsson is overpriced, I think don't he can play only play one position. He floats around for Swansea and comes deep a lot – he would be more than capable of playing in a midfield 3, or in a 2 behind the striker.

He also drifts wide for them – he shouldn't play wide, just as Barkley shouldn't, but he is not only capable of playing behind the striker and often has played from different positions for Swansea.

Bill Griffiths
403 Posted 15/07/2017 at 20:36:16
Sam (#401), on the face of things, I would agree with you and I'm a bit surprised we haven't t been linked with him, especially given Walsh's connections with him.

Maybe Walsh knows something we don't and that could be why?

Tony Hill
404 Posted 15/07/2017 at 21:31:20
Those commenting on the fitness of some players are absolutely right. Our lack of proper athleticism has cost us recently and it is worrying that professionals can present themselves for pre-season training looking so out of shape. Especially when they knew we would be starting early.

Nicholas Ryan
405 Posted 15/07/2017 at 21:57:22
There's a piece on the BBC Sport website by Pat Nevin, discussing Sigurdsson; it is, as you would expect, sober, thoughtful and considered.

What is his conclusion? Pay them whatever they want! That's good enough for me.

Chris Gould
406 Posted 15/07/2017 at 23:06:08
Bill (#403), funnily enough, we are now being linked to him, along with other clubs.
Brian Murphy
407 Posted 15/07/2017 at 23:19:14
I'm sorry but £50mill for this guy is just too much, he doesn't give enough in open play, also Klaassen, Rooney, Sandro, and then Sigurdsson all equal, no real pace.

Mahrez can play on either flank and through the middle, for £30 Mill, yes please.

Tony Hill
408 Posted 15/07/2017 at 23:27:09
I would love Mahrez but he'll go to Arsenal. Rumours now we're after Walcott for £30m. I'm not sure about that one, if remotely true.
Dan Davies
409 Posted 15/07/2017 at 23:32:07
If we can sign Mahrez for cheaper, and that's doubtful, I'd be up for that.
Chris Gould
410 Posted 15/07/2017 at 23:59:06
I agree, Tony. He'll most likely go to Arsenal and it will be for over £40 million. It depends on whether Monaco allow Lemar to leave for the Gunners. If Arsenal were to get Lemar then maybe we'd have a chance. Slim one.

Robbie Fowler said the other week that we had done well to get most of our business done early as he predicted prices were going to sky rocket.

Why would Leicester sell Mahrez to Arsenal for £30 million when Walker has just gone to Man City for £50 million, and Sigurdsson is being valued the same by Swansea?

I think we're going to see some crazy fees paid in the next few weeks.

Eddie Dunn
411 Posted 15/07/2017 at 00:03:45
Well lads, Pat Nevin wrote that at least a week ago, and at the time I thought the bugger wasn't doing us any favours. If it had been his much loved Chelski involved, he would have suggested the price was OTT!
Jay Harris
412 Posted 16/07/2017 at 00:16:43
Sam,

I don't know where you got the figure of £30m for Mahrez.

I heard £50m and Spurs, Chelsea and Everton are interested.

If we could get Mahrez, I would love it and I do think Sigurdsson is not good value at £50m but I didn't want Rooney either, so what do I know?

David Edwards
413 Posted 15/07/2017 at 00:21:41
A quality thread from the TWs. Well done to all! Little idiotic comments for once or excessive, so-called cultural references from the usual suspects. Well done Paul and Chris for some quality insights.

My modest views: Barkley is a busted flush and I wish him well at another club. £20-25M would not disappoint. Sigurdsson – worth £50M, of course not!...but it's all got rather silly with the Sky Money, and he would be a real step up. Our midfield has lacked creative style and competence for attack for years and the time to act is now! Test Swansea on £45M first, though.

Still think we lack another proven front man up front. Grab Giroud with whatever it takes! Don't be limited by £20M. Given service and players scurrying around him and we can get enough goals from him per season.

Lastly, Mahrez? People saying we have no chance against London clubs. Would be improve? Of course. Cheaper than Sigurdsson if Swansea play hard-ball? Yes!

However, I have complete faith at the moment with Moshiri, Koeman and Walsh - based on the transfer window so far – so as these guys are more talented with financial structure and the tactical nuances of 4-3-3, 4-4-2 or 0-0-10 than me, I'll accept whatever happens when the window closes.

However, I maintain the right to criticise when we lose the first 5 games! But that is the role of a lifetime delusional Evertonian! I will invite them to observe me teach a class of Year 11 Physics Students at my school, and give me hell, when I fail to get them to understand the conservation of energy!!! 😀

Gordon Crawford
414 Posted 16/07/2017 at 00:40:33
£40m quoted for Mahrez. We should go get him.
Clive Mitchell
415 Posted 16/07/2017 at 00:48:59
I'd just like to congratulate this thread on its first anniversary, and to note that I don't care who we buy as long as we don't buy the most over-rated player in Premier League history, Theo 'Roadrunner' Walcott.
Richard Reeves
416 Posted 16/07/2017 at 02:52:48
There's got to be better players out there for the kind of money Swansea want. I know the market has gone mad but £50 mill is still a massive amount and there must be some very good players out there (abroad) who we can get for that kind of money or less who are a lot younger and with pace. It could be a massive waste of money when we could spend it on a creative midfielder who other clubs are aware of and want,don't ask me who they are but people who's job it is to know should know.

Of course he could be just what we need but I have a feeling it will be looked back on as a waste of money, a bit like the Bolasie signing to date or the failed (bullet dodged) Sissoko signing.

I want to see Barkley signed up and big money going on a younger,better creative playmaker than Sigurdsson and on a very good striker who has the potential to be prolific in front of goal. Someone who is strong in the air, quick and powerful,... Dembele basically.

Drew O'Neall
417 Posted 16/07/2017 at 03:50:21
While I give full credit to the board for the players they did bring in at the start of the transfer window, we have started pre-season training with no player of the required quality in the No 9 position, where arguably we need two, and where the competition and cost will be highest.

I hope we don't fanny about talking about Sigurdsson, a player who occupies a position where we have added three players already this window, for £50m for the rest of the summer and start the season with Dominic Calvert-Lewin as our main striker.

Mike Gaynes
418 Posted 16/07/2017 at 04:14:33
Off-topic, I'm watching Lukaku make his debut for Man Utd against the LA Galaxy. He just missed a sitter from 15 yards directly in front.

BTW, if anybody doubts how mediocre MLS really is... Galaxy are in the middle of their season and Man Utd is just starting pre-season, and Man Utd is leading 3-0.

Derek Thomas
419 Posted 16/07/2017 at 07:55:13
Re. Mahrez; Walsh must know him better than most, is there a reason he's not on our radar?
Dave Abrahams
420 Posted 16/07/2017 at 08:55:41
I think Mahrez had a great season when Leicester won the league but he had an in-and-out season last time, so he hasn't really proved himself in England. I think Sigurdsson is the better option despite the crazy price.
Julie Oliver
421 Posted 16/07/2017 at 08:57:37
1) wants goals from midfield

2) Ross will return about 5 per season

3) Sigurdsson will return about 12 per season


I think all the other stats , in depth arguments and over-analysis are surplus to requirements to Ronald. He just wants someone who he rely on to guarantee a better return no matter what. With Sigurdsson operating in a better team (Everton 2017) he may get a yard or 2 more space and even better his goal tally. That may be wishful thinking but whichever way you look at it he will score more than Ross. He is over priced for his age but we will recoup part from the sale of Ross... and Sigurdsson will take us one step closer to a trophy and Champions League qualification.

With some trepidation , I say go for the transfer at £40M + the inevitable 'add-ons'.

Tony Abrahams
422 Posted 16/07/2017 at 10:18:55
The conservation of energy David? Ask Klopp, or Martinez, to take the class for yer mate!
Chris Gould
423 Posted 16/07/2017 at 10:40:08
Dave, wouldn't both be nice.

Sigurdsson is a definite. No way are we backing down now.

I have a feeling that, once we smash our transfer record for Sigurdsson, we may very well smash it again in this window.

I think we'll offer Giroud parity with Rooney, which means he'll have the choice of Champions League football with Dortmund or more money and an exciting season with us. Although Wenger rarely sells to rivals.

Ciarán McGlone
424 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:08:52
Spending £50 mill and smashing our transfer record on Sigurdsson smacks of anti-climax. The argument of whether it's our money or not is irrelevant. The point is that our expectations of what we get for £50 million should be more than Sigurdsson.

We hired Mr Walsh for his expertise in signing top players for little money. If the most he can do with £50mill is Sigurdsson, then I'm afraid he's surplus to requirements.

Chris Williams
425 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:24:40
I think every team in the Premier League could conceivably break their transfer record this window.
Colin Glassar
426 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:24:42
Ciaran, I think it will be Siggurdsson, a forward and Gray. A very good window imo, even though I'd like cover for Bainsey.
John Mckay
427 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:27:40
Chris Could (#422) – Wenger rarely sells to rivals?

Van Persie to Man Utd...
Samir Nasri to Man City...
The right back they sold to Man City, his name I can't remember at the moment but it'll come to me...
Adebayor...

To name just a few in recent years, lol.

Chris Gould
428 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:31:08
Ciarán, Walsh's job isn't simply to unearth gems, it's to secure as many of our targets as possible. He's done an amazing job of that this summer. A brilliantly professional and efficient recruitment drive.

Sandro and Onyekuru have been bought for next to nothing. We have bought Keane for £30 million and just seen Walker go for £50 million. Keane looks a bargain as does Klaassen. Prices are about to go crazy and we will be thankful we got most of our players in early.

Thus far this window, Walsh has played a blinder. Plus, I'm pretty sure Sigurdsson is a Koeman target as he wanted him last summer.

Surplus to requirements?! Harsh indeed.

John Mckay
429 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:33:26
It's a false economy in this Premier League anyway because they always say Premier League spends over £1bn.

But a lot of that money will get spent between clubs in the same league, so we sell Lukaku, Barkley and probably McCarthy all to Premier League teams and we buy Pickford, Keane, Rooney, Sigurdsson, Giroud...

Sunderland use that money to buy British-based players as do Burnley and Swansea. Just more a transfer of players than the league spending £1bn.

We are buying for more but we also selling for more. £50m is mental but when a team's going to buy Lukaku at £90m, Barkley at £25-50m and McCarthy at £20-25m, it's not as bad as it seems.

Sam Hoare
430 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:39:43
Quite a lot of our new (and prospective) players 'productivity' came from set pieces last season (pens, free kicks and corners). I wonder who will be taking them because whoever isn't will get a lot less goals and assists.

I'm more interested in what people can do from open play.

Denis Richardson
431 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:41:49
Ciaran (#423), most are not arguing whether it's our money or not, comments are more on the fact that sky have made transfer figures balloon upwards.

Every club knows that every Premier League club is sitting on at least £100m to spend on players. And that's just the clubs near the bottom. Money will go round the houses as it is with most staying in the Premier League (as most big transfers will be between Premier League lubs). We'll spend loads and we'll receive loads.

£30, 40, 50m for Sigurdsson. They're all ridiculous in yesterday's money but not necessarily today's. Looks like city will end up spending £100m on just two full backs this window. We'll get around £25-30m for Barkley and most of us think he's never going to really make it!

Have given up fretting over the money. Our major shareholder is a billionaire and the guy who calls the shots behind him is worth about $15billion! On top of that we get about £125m a year from Sky (for the next couple of years anyway).

Fuck the cash – let's get decent players in and finally challenge!

Chris Gould
432 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:42:07
John,

You mean Sagna. Also Clichy. Come to think of it, Ashley Cole.

Okay, 'rarely' was too extreme. Have to settle for, he'll certainly prefer not to.

John Mckay
433 Posted 16/07/2017 at 11:54:05
Chris. It seems he loves selling to rivals come to think of it. 😂😂
Grant Rorrison
434 Posted 16/07/2017 at 12:01:32
Glad I am not the only one seriously underwhelmed at the thought of spending £50 million on Sigurdsson.

Seems some people just want to see us spending lots of money regardless of what we end up with. Has to be better options and better value out there for that price.

Kim Vivian
435 Posted 16/07/2017 at 12:02:12
I think Cole forced it tbh. Not clear what Giroud wants to do, but it would be nice if there was a bit of leverage from him. Assuming Koeman wants him that is. I think he would enjoy it with us.
John G Davies
436 Posted 16/07/2017 at 12:02:31
My season ticket didn't go up by a brass nickel.

Not concerned with how much our billionaire clever businessman owner sees fit to spend.

Daniel A Johnson
437 Posted 16/07/2017 at 12:22:04
Sigurdsson is worth £50M

When you see Kyle Walker going for £45M, Swansea are justified in wanting £50M for Sigurdsson.

Also, if we rate Barkley at £50M with 12 months left, then why shouldn't Swansea rate their player at £50M?

It's a sellers market all clubs are cash rich. He will improve our first team so get him in.

But I am worried about our striker situation: we need Giroud, Dembele or Benteke in before the start of the season. Rooney can't do a full season and Sandro is unproven at Premier League level.

Jon Withey
438 Posted 16/07/2017 at 12:35:07
Spending £50 million on a player isn't a statement – winning something is.

You have to wonder whether we could get two decent players for that – but I guess he is seen as a match-winner.

Maybe Ross will have a change of heart and we can spend this on a striker.

Colin Grierson
439 Posted 16/07/2017 at 14:03:14
I don't think at this stage it has anything to do with Ross changing how he feels. He's had his chance and it's time to move on. No hard feelings and all that and good luck to him as long as he isn't playing for a rival.

Sigurdsson, I expect, will be ours before the week is out. At least, I hope so.

Andy Crooks
440 Posted 16/07/2017 at 14:46:18
Denis, I dispute that "most of us", think that Barkley is never going to make it. I think he is going to make it, really make it, and I would like it to be with Everton.
Darren Hind
441 Posted 16/07/2017 at 14:59:54
A few getting carried away with the spending spree here... "Fuck the cash"?

We are still buying players who have yet to prove they are good enough to force us into the top six, most of them have not yet played at that level. We seem to be landing them simply because we are prepared to pay more than others would. Sigurdsson would simply be the latest example of this. selling clubs are seeing us coming.

I can accept these players may well be good enough, but that is something that is still to be proven. Whilst I understand the excitement new signings generate. There is no guarantee we will see any improvement at all. I still don't see enough goals, creativity or pace in this squad.

History tells us that nothing tightens the purse strings of a football club more than burnt fingers (those with inexhaustible wealth excluded). If we pay over the odds we stand little chance of recouping the money and are unlikely to gamble again.

We are only able to finance these deals by selling off our most desired assets... what happens next time?

Of course, the price we pay is important and it should be important to everyone who has the best interest of this club at heart. We are not buying top draw players, we are mainly buying potential, that should be reflected in the price... but we are spending with the richest of them.

Those looking at Kyle Walker and thinking this is a measure of where transfer fees are, need to look again. Man City as we know, are charged more because they will pay it.

Paying over the odds does not mean we are buying shrewdly or that the club is "making a statement"... it simply means there will less to spend in future than there should be.

Those claiming the sky money pays for these transfers need to think again too. it's not quite as simple as that. Most of the sky money goes straight out of the game and into the pockets of players, agents, managers. Our cut will just about cover our wage bill.

BTW, I'd really love to have Walsh's job... As Yozzer Hughes once famously said, "I could do that."

Peter Gorman
442 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:07:56
Sorry Andy, I dispute your dispute, I think you're in the minority.
Andrew Keatley
443 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:18:47
Andy (#439) – I have always wanted him to make it. When he first broke into the Everton team I thought he had a very decent chance of becoming the leading English player of his generation.

But each passing year has seen a frustrating return on his vast potential. He has in some ways gone backwards in the last three years; he was on the verge of breaking into the England starting XI for the 2014 World Cup (now he is not even in the squad) – and after being an almost guaranteed starter at Everton for the last few years, I think we have now assembled a squad that probably puts him on the bench more often than not.

Other players have arrived that currently seem to have more to offer. I'm currently more excited by the potential of Tom Davies, of Ademola Lookman, of Kieran Dowell, of Sandro.

Sadly I feel my patience with Barkley has now gone. It feels like he is one card away from being a busted flush. While there is a chance that he might move elsewhere and realise the potential that got us all so excited, I am starting to doubt whether he has it within himself to ever unlock that potential.

Certainly five years of inconsistency does not bode well; if we do get rid of him, then I don't think anyone could ever accuse the club of not giving him a chance.

Will Mabon
444 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:45:08
Andy – I'm in the pro-Barkley camp but can admit he hasn't gone as far as we hoped, as fast as we hoped.

However – five years of inconsistency; really? Is that all you've seen? He may not have become Rooney 2 by 21-years-old, but he's been the best attacking midfielder we've had across the last few seasons, and is streets ahead of many consistent players in the Premier League, who are basically consistent and not much else.

There'll be a certain realization should Barkley be sold and Sigurdsson arrive. We may gain in some areas but we won't half lose something.

Ron Marr
445 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:46:45
Interested in the real reason Barkley won't sign the contract. Where is the Belgian media when you need them?
Mike Gaynes
446 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:49:25
Ciaran (#423), I can always count on you for a laugh. A big one. Thanks.
Steven Telford
447 Posted 16/07/2017 at 15:53:04
It may have been posted here before, but just incase not, here is a good Barkley vs Sigurdsson data analysis.

https://differentgame.wordpress.com/2017/06/12/the-data-scout-gylfi-sigurdsson-v-ross-barkley-part-one/

Mike Gaynes
448 Posted 16/07/2017 at 16:05:32
Had not seen that before, Steven (#445). Very interesting.
Tom Bowers
449 Posted 16/07/2017 at 16:33:50
Don't know what Barkley's problem is... or is it Koeman?

If Barkley is unhappy, why doesn't he ask for the transfer and any new club will surely pay off the last year of his contract.

Whilst the ridiculous £40 to 50 million numbers are being bandied around, Everton should cash in now and let Barkley go if he is still sulking.

Jay Harris
450 Posted 16/07/2017 at 16:34:00
Just shows statistics can prove anything you want, Steven.

I prefer my eyes and, despite the fact so many of us have been rooting for Ross, he has consistently been inconsistent.

I don't know if Sigurdsson is an improvement in the Everton setup and £50m is way overpriced but have to back the management's judgement on that.

Antony Matthews
451 Posted 16/07/2017 at 16:55:45
Anybody who gets Liverpool to buy Ricky Lambert for lots of wads gets my vote. He knows what he needs to do to get Everton where we need to be before the spade work starts at Bramley-Moore... and if that means selling Ross, then so be it.
Ian Horan
452 Posted 16/07/2017 at 17:31:57
How bizarre... Ross Barkley has posted on his twitter account this afternoon, it's about Rodger Federer; however, more importantly it's his first post since 15th April. Could this mean something is a foot??
John G Davies
453 Posted 16/07/2017 at 19:11:34
12 inches Ian
Andrew Keatley
454 Posted 16/07/2017 at 19:51:10
Will (#444) – Yup. I do think Barkley has been largely inconsistent for five years. That doesn't mean he hasn't had spells of being brilliant. It just means that those brilliant spells are broken up by stretches of being lacklustre – and from time to time just downright awful.

I agree with you that most players do not have the ability to offer the highs that Barkley can, but consistency seems to be an increasingly important part of football – and Barkley just does not offer it.

And when it comes down to it Barkley has just not made telling contributions in enough big games. He's had plenty of chances, but I don't think he's ever really dominated in a must-win match, or run the show against anyone better than mid-table opposition – and even that is increasingly rare.

Julie Oliver
455 Posted 17/07/2017 at 07:20:26
Barkley - Sigurdsson is a side-show. The real issue is replacing Lukaku – we need the absolute best striker we can get.

I would like to see someone who can approach Lukaku's goal tally. The quality of the replacement will have the most significant effect on our season and chances of improvement. We need to add goals from midfield, yes, but at the same time keep the ones our forwards score too. It's the only way to progress.

Sandro is the real deal, but will need a bit of time. For the next year, he will be the supporting act.

Eddie Dunn
456 Posted 17/07/2017 at 08:28:12
Steven Telford, that is food for thought, but it reminds me of when I am about to buy something on Amazon, and I read the customer reviews. All seems well, with lots of good ratings and one person flags up a problem, and it leaves you back in the land of nowhere.

Watching a lot of Barkley, it is clear where his problems lie. He takes too many touches. He is too late with the pass. He hasn't had enough options through static teammates. Sigurdsson, who I have seen less of, is less mobile and less technically gifted, plays the pass earlier, but perhaps hasn't got the range of pass that Barkley has.

Barkley has more tools in his box, but struggles to use the right ones at the right time. Sigurdsson, on the other hand, has fewer tools but picks the right one out and uses it in a more effective way more often.

Neither of these two would hold down a place at Spurs, Man City, Chelsea or Arsenal. We are still not dining at the top table. I would be amazed if Spurs came in for either of them.

Trevor Peers
457 Posted 17/07/2017 at 09:05:01
Replacing Sigurdsson with want-away Barkley, if it happens this week, will be a significant plus for the team.

Barkley usually contributes about 10 minutes to each game, while Sigurdsson regularly works for the full 90 minutes, and with more quality and nous.

The sooner we get this done, and concentrate fully on buying a new striker, the better.

Ray Robinson
458 Posted 17/07/2017 at 09:43:07
Andrew (#454), totally agree, Barkley did dominate an away game, I remember, at Arsenal a few years ago when we drew 1-1 (Deulofeu equaliser right at the end) but, as you suggest, it's all too infrequent – even against more moderate opposition.

I also agree with Julie (#455). Despite the excellent window so far (or that's the way it looks at least), we really do need to land a specialist forward or two urgently. It's all very well spreading the goals around a bit but we still need a main man, even if he's a 15 goal a season striker rather than Lukaku's 25.

Our potential is threatened with being blunted without such a player and the pool to fish in gets smaller as the weeks pass. Has Iheanacho signed for Leicester yet?

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