Dismal showing limits Chelsea to two easy goals

By Michael Kenrick 27/08/2017  299 Comments  [Jump to last]
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Idrissa Gueye was passed fit and started in midfield with Tom Davies
Chelsea 2 - 0 Everton

Everton are in the Capital for a third successive away game, taking their five-match unbeaten run to Stamford Bridge to face Chelsea in a Sunday lunchtime kickoff.

Schneiderlin is suspended but Sigurdsson is named for his second start, with Sandro fit again and coming back in for Calvert-Lewin, who drops to the bench. Maybe three at the back with Holgate and Baines as wingbacks.

Everton kicked off in the sunshine wearing their washed out grey kit, Rooney in on Kante and winning a free kick. Holgate needing to be alert to Alonso coming down the ring. Morata three himself down as Keane patrolled, no contact.

A poor free-kick from Sigurdsson saw Baines stop a Chelsea surge. Sigurdsson got past his man on the left wing but his cross was ahead oof everyone. Gueyeu came in on Fabregas's ankle and got booked very early on. Willan skipped through and set up and acrobatic attempt for Pedro.

Chelsea were turning the screw, running through Everton with ease, Pedro next to fire at Pickford as the Greys showed zero forward intent. In possession, Everton had simply no idea how to advance, relying far too much on balls back to Pickford that are punted forward.

Handball by Marcos Alonso saw the free-kick played backward and Rooney getting caught by Alonso. Sando beat Alonso but lost the ball to David Luiz and Chelsea came forward again.

A rare spell in Chelsea's half ended with an awful touch from Davies, Everton relying entirely on defence to preserve the point they arrived with. A Fabregas corner was sent sort along the byeline and smashed away smartly by Baines.

The first goal duly arrived, Morata nodding the ball to Fabregas who slotted home with ease. Absolutely dire football from Everton, setting themselves for another 5-0 slaughter.

Finally, a bit more football played in the Chelsea half, but not in their area until Sigurdsson tried a weak shot from distance. Sandro tried to doo a little too much but was fouled and won a free-kick that Sigurdsson floated into the crowd. Willian and Gueye collided heavily.

Pretty terrible defending saw Gueye dispossessed, Moss playing advantage, Asp firing in a good cross that Morata could nod in with ease. for goal number two. Fabregas allowed to run in and shoot at Pickford.

In possession, Everton were utterly bereft of effort, idea or intent, trying to pass the ball around and deny the home side a chance for more embarrassment. Everton's best move came before the break when they almost furnished a shot on goal.A terrible, terrible first half from Everton, with Rooney become as frustrated as any Evertonian witnessing this.

Besic replaced Davies, who had been very poor, after the break but Chelsea still waltzed up to the Everton area for pot-shot practise at will, Pedro firing wide. Sigurdsson blocked a ball in midfield and set Rooney free, Sandro making an attempt but easily thwarted, albeit for Everton's first corner.

Gueye was next to waste an opportunity to launch an Everton attack, passing the ball past Rooney to a Chelsea player... and Chelsea restarted their training level efforts, Williams and Pickford almost contriving to allow a free goal before Pedro got lose and drove wide.

Everton finally worked a half-decent cross but there was no-one to convert it, and Calvert-Lewin replaced the rather ineffective if ever illing Sandro.

A little break from Calvert-Lewin saw Sigurdsson with a chance to shoot but he passed it along the line and eventually Rooney had a difficult chance that he could not direct on goal. Rooney was then booked.

Baines was chopped down, Moses booked, and Sigurdsson swung in a superb free-kick but a Chelsea head got underneath it.

Jagielka gave away a horrible ball and Chelsea looked nailed on for their third goal but their attempts were blocked. Calvert-Lewin won a free-kick that Rooney powered in and Williams hooked Everton's closest attempt on goal just over the bar.

Jagielka was subbed by Lennon who set up Holgate for a good cross that won Everton's second corner. Baines, crossed, then Sigurdsson and William's glancing header flew inches wide. Another more adventurous attack, albeit from a long ball, saw Rooney and Lennon battle well before Gueye fired just over.

Calvert-Lewin then tried to beat three men rather than passing but at least Everton were moving the ball forward at long last... with 3 minutes of added time. Besic put in a well-timed challenge on Kante.

No doubt the excuses of a difficult week for Everton with the Europa League but there were no excuses for the truly abysmal first half.

Chelsea: Courtois, Azpilicueta [Y:88'], Luiz, Rüdiger, Moses (89' Christensen) [Y:76'], Fàbregas, Kanté, Alonso, Willian, Pedro (75' Bakayoko), Morata (78' Batshuayi).
Subs not Used: Caballero, Kenedy, Musonda, Tomori.

Everton: Pickford, Holgate, Keane, A Williams, Jagielka (83' Lennon), Baines, Gueye [Y:8'], Davies (46' Besic), Sigurdsson, Rooney, [Y:71'] Sandro (62' Calvert-Lewin).
Subs not Used:Stekelenburg, Martina, Lookman, Kenny.

Referee: Jonathan Moss

Attendance: 41,382


Reader Comments (299)

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Nitesh Kanchan
1 Posted 27/08/2017 at 12:40:19
So Besic is staying rather than being with his dad. I hope he goes on to become next Keane or Viera for us if he can channel his aggression rightly.
Chris Williams
2 Posted 27/08/2017 at 12:46:29
Stronger team than I thought. 3 centre halves, Sandro Gueye, in Plus Davies Rooney Sigurdsson to shuttle. Holgate and Baines

Besic on the bench with Kenny, Lennon, Lookman, Clavert-Lewin, Martina.

Hard these Balkan geezers.

John James
3 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:00:38
Good side.
Jeff Armstrong
4 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:23:39
Jags a liability for me in these games, always likely to give a pen away against pace like Pedro.
Sean McCarthy
5 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:29:04
Jeff - jags was immense against city in one of "these games"!!
Steve Ferns
6 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:30:48
Based on what Jeff? Jags is not reckless, that's williams
Tony Waring
7 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:40:58
Thought Mirallas was in Belgium ????
Dave Bowen
8 Posted 27/08/2017 at 13:45:06
I thought Mirallas was seen at Manchester airport on his way to Belgium? Got back quick if he did, he's on the bench.
Ciarán McGlone
9 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:01:54
Williams is bloody awful. Take him off and go four at the back a bring an offensive player on.. we've nothing tilose now.

ps: I'd also hook Tom... another game passing him by.

Gary Carter
10 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:08:11
Besic as our Keane or Viera??? Besic has no temperament, no tactical awareness and very little ability.

This myth he has become is based on one game in a World Cup about 3 years ago and one game against Man City about two years ago; the rest of the time he's been with us he's been rubbish or injured!

In a more realistic world, I think young Tom Davies could go on to be our Steven Gerrard but hopefully without the total tosser part.

Andy Meighan
11 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:14:01
On the live forum, some fans predicting us to win... Laughable. I don't think their keeper has touched the ball. This manager is so negative, its' untrue and I fear we could be staring down the barrel of another 5-goal walloping.
David Morgan
12 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:22:23
Defend with 8, attack with 3, this is what happens. Hopefully this is the death of this crap formation. This is Moyes all over and I would like to see us work on a new attacking formation second half, maybe lose a defensive midfielder and a centre back and add 2 more further up.

Push the back line up and do this mythical pressing Koeman is supposed to like but we never see. Koeman's fault in my opinion and it's been on the cards for weeks.

Max Murphy
13 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:22:27
The whole team are awful. I think Koeman picks his team by pulling names out of a hat.

Why is Williams on the pitch? A total liability – we saw that in Croatia. No tactical thinking or strategy from Koeman.

Another drubbing on the cards. Same old crap, despite the millions spent. Chelsea haven't broken into a sweat.

Ian Lloyd
14 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:24:06
Yet again, set up defensively, by far the most defensive manager in the Premier League and even worse than Pulis

I fear the worst of this is what's to come. I knew the recent results were just papering over the cracks.

Might as well get beat 5-3 than get beat 1-0 or 2-0 without even having a shot on the opponents' goal .

Hopeless. Spent £150 million and we look twice as bad as last season.

Anto Byrne
15 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:25:42
Awful – not in the match. This is Moyes shite.
Andy Meighan
16 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:27:41
This moron can go on spending as much as he likes ... Until he learns to be tactically astute, we'll continue to be amongst the also-rans.

I thought last season's effort down there was bad. This is on par
– if not worse. Disgraceful. Have we actually been in their box? Damage limitation time here because this could get messy...

Tommy Coleman
17 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:27:54
Playing 5 at the back like last year's 5-0 hammering. Clearly thought we played well to use the system again.

Why he persists I just don't know, I've never seen us play well using it.

Jay Wood
18 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:29:19
Oh. Dear.

There is no protection for the defence in front of them.

Neither Gueye nor Davies are getting anywhere near enough to Fabregas or Willian. The Chelski pair have all the space and time they need to hurt us and they have. Nor are either of them being careful enough with the ball when they get it. Gueye at fault for the 2nd goal for not clearing his lines while he had the chance.

Nor is there any out ball for us and thus no threat. Not ONE touch in the Chelsea penalty area in that 1st half? Oh. Dear.

Ok, Sandro is getting no service. Neither Siggurdsson nor Rooney are helping much in the transition from defence, through midfield to attack, but being so much under the cosh, Sandro could come looking for the ball more.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Calvert-Lewin on for him after the break to offer us that elusive outball.

Will Koeman persist with the five at the big, or re-jig it to put numbers in midfield? Not much available from the bench to do that.

And Williams is far from 'bloody awful'. He is a popular whipping boy for some, isn't he?

Steve Ferns
19 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:29:37
Agreed David. The setup is all wrong. We have bad performances all over the pitch, perhaps only Gueye is doing okay, but he's like the boy with his finger in the dyke.

I'd take Williams off and throw Besic on and try to push Davies further forward, and push Rooney and Sigurdsson from the midfield into the forward line. Maybe even throw Dominic Calvert-Lewin on to play as the 9 as an alternative.

Ian Lloyd
20 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:35:13
Hate to say it but Koeman is not the man for the job.

We will be in the bottom 6 by the end of August.

Ciarán McGlone
21 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:39:28
Jay,

Hes bloody awful.. out of position for large parts of that half and his dance routine for their first goal was comical.. No idea what he was at for the second either.

I've seen you defend him repeatedly on here.. he has the odd decent game, but mostly he's a calamity waiting to happen.

Reserving judgement is a matter of infinite hope And he's simply not good enough... Whipping boy or not.

Peter Cummings
22 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:40:35
Can't get the game where we are, on the Canada/US border ,so watching by text and it looks like we're in for another hiding by the half-time score after an embarrassing non-defensive display according to TW commentators, so Koeman gets it wrong again!
Steve Ferns
23 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:42:23
None of the three central defenders are playing well. Even Keane is having a bad game. I'd have taken Williams off as I feel the other two are the better partnership.
Ernie Baywood
24 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:48:55
Ditch the three... and time for Sandro to come off. He looks so far off the pace.
Alan Bodell
25 Posted 27/08/2017 at 14:57:31
Can't see one attribute from us here to warrant it being just 2-0. If we get away with that as a final score, I'll be disappointed at the result but delighted we never got a severe hammering.

We haven't turned up today at all.

Clive Rogers
26 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:00:47
What's happened to Davies this season?
John G Davies
27 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:01:09
Ciaran

The second goal was down to Keane.

Dave Bowen
28 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:03:42
If Niasse is worse than Sandro, he must be bloody awful. I'm far from convinced Koeman is the man got the job. Marginalised Mirallas & Niasse who both have faults but can score & will go looking for the ball. Sandro offers nothing.
Bill Gall
29 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:04:31
When you need an out-ball and are going to hoof it down field, you need a tall No 9 to control it or to bring the other players in with a lay-off. We have been waiting for a No 9 for an outlet since Lukaku was sold and, looking at reports, we are not sure of getting one.

We are aware that this has been a hard week for Everton's players but I am afraid that is no excuse for not being able to pass the ball to one of your players 10 yards away. I understand we are a work in progress but on this showing – especially in the first half – we are showing no progress.

Don Alexander
30 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:04:56
A bit of mercy towards the squad and manager might be appropriate folks. They'll have only got back from Croatia sometime on Friday, probably travelled to the Smoke yesterday and are playing a club with some of the league's best players in every position, all of whom have had a week's training and relaxing under their belt.

Not good admittedly but no need to despair either.

Sean McCarthy
31 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:10:31
After this piss-poor performance, can we instigate a ban on anyone claiming we can push for the "top 4"?? We are a million miles away!!
Christopher Dover
32 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:11:32
Got a good feed and watched first half, but it was so poor I cannot be bothered to watch the second half.

I want Everton to succeed but please stop the back-passing to then play hoof-ball.

Andy Meighan
33 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:19:14
Don (#30) – you must be easily pleased if you think there's no need to despair. If you're not bothered by that level of performance then I'm worried for you.

This manager is tactically brain-dead and the way he set the side up today, a la last season, was nothing short of criminal. I've said it a million times, Koeman is not the man for Everton – he's just another Moyes only with a bigger war chest.

Dean Johnson
34 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:19:54
Like I said after the Man City game, if you don't win playing like this, then what is the point?

I'm losing patience with Koeman.

Ciarán McGlone
35 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:23:43
The Chelsea team on the pitch today are not so special that we have to give them the respect we did. They are beatable, but not if you go there with the attitude of already being beat... I don't accept tiredness is responsible for sloppy concession and unforced errors.

83 minutes before we switched from that ineffectual back 5 formation and had a bit of a go.

Holgate had another good game, I think he's earned a go in the centre with Keane.

Poor effort all round.

Derek Knox
36 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:24:41
It's hard to take anything from today's performance, but when you look at the positives...

Come to think of it, what were the positives?

Steve Ferns
37 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:25:01
Very disappointing performance today. We were much better when Dominic Calvert-Lewin came on. For me, right now, he should be ahead of Sandro.

We need another striker and we have to sign someone. We should have gone for one ahead of Sigurdsson, it needs to be done soon.

Personally, going off what's available, and who's willing to come, we should sign Benteke. Surely, he will want out of the sinking ship that is Palace.

Peter Gorman
38 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:26:07
Like taking a toothpick to a gun-fight.

Does anybody know if it is in Rooney's contract to play every 90 minutes?

Colin Glassar
39 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:26:25
Same here Dean. This ultra negative mindset isn't going to get us nowhere. Only after Calvert-lewin and Lennon came on did we even start trying.

I hope Rooney tells him that this cowardly shite is unacceptable to most Everton fans.

Lose by all means to a better team but at least show some pride and spirit!

Chris Williams
40 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:28:15
Outplayed and outclassed by the Champions. No redeeming features whatsoever.

Maybe some jaded, some not yet match fit, some missing but we need to offer more than that display if we're to be taken seriously as competitors in this company.

Seriously fucking disappointing.

4 important days to come.

Stephen McNally
42 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:30:39
Luckily, I haven't had the opportunity to watch this game; but, from what I am hearing, we're not putting in a good performance. However, from what I've witnessed so far this season, were missing guile going forward and there appears to be too much of the same across the middle of the park.

Personally, I'm happy with this summer's recruits – apart from Sandro and Klaassen – so, hopefully, we can improve as a side. As for the aforementioned, they will need to shape up over the course of this season; or, Koeman will need to cut his losses and ship them out.

Early days, but, going forward, Everton need to ruthless in order to bridge the gap between the too sides.

Andrew Presly
43 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:30:42
Pretty clear it was a write off from the moment the first goal went in.

When we're as bad as that it's hard to get too angry or disappointed though. Man City was worse as we should've closed that one out.

Without the striker and pacy goal threat in wide forward positions we're stuck in seventh yet again and will come unstuck in the Cups if we can't avoid the better teams as we'll go into those matches exactly like this with the same outcome.

Tony Hill
44 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:30:47
I am relieved it wasn't much worse in terms of the score. I expected nothing and wasn't disappointed. That was a performance straight from Everton's droopy away game songbook.

The trip to Split no doubt had an effect but we're going to have many more such occasions this season and we'd better react better.

So, a predictable defeat. But if we don't find two high quality attacking options next week then it's going to be painful, very painful. I also hope, against the evidence, that the manager will set up the side to play with some adventure and bravery at some point. That would be nice.

Sean McCarthy
45 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:31:12
Sandro?? Discuss

To me, he looks like this season's Niasse. Granted the service to him was woeful but, whenever the ball is played into him, it bounces straight off him and back to the opposition.

Paul A Smith
46 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:31:39
I only saw the last 10 minutes and, as with any other defeat, it's the only spell in the game we have a go. Is that something to do with subs? The opposition starting to shut down or general attitude.

Maybe all three but, judging by this thread, it's another dull performance with no shots on goal?

Ernie Baywood
47 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:32:07
Don't play a back 5 at Chelsea.

They're a really good side but trying to match their clever movement with 3 big centre backs is suicide. They're not aiming long balls or regularly swinging in crosses... why reduce the number of players we have with ability on the ball?

In attack? Well with so many defensive players we end up passing it backwards as that's where the players are. Then we end up lumping it forward. When we did try to play forward we found a team with no structure. It was clear Sandro struggled badly but what was his position? He's not a true number 9 is he?

We improved with DCL and Lennon on. Pace, width, aerial presence and effort. Neither are world beaters but it's not exactly rocket science to have those kind of attributes in your team is it?

Chelsea won't have an easier game all season than that.

George Cumiskey
48 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:34:45
That was abysmal, and don't use Sandro as a scapegoat – they were all as bad as him. The biggest culprit was the manager, with his team selection, negative tactics and too late substitutions.

I never thought a Dutch great as a player would be such a coward as a manager.

Oh, I take everything back, I forgot it's a 'project'... and a long-term one at that.

Gordon White
49 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:35:08
Awful. Even allowing for the fact that they were the better team. It was awful. If they had taken their chances better it could easily have been 4-0. Easily.

Huge mistake by Ronald Koeman. Doesn't he learn from his lessons? Everton have to learn to deal with teams that press high. It was the same last season.

Holgate, Ramirez, Williams – all shockingly abysmal. On and off the ball. Even the very few chances we go right at the death were only because they took their foot off the pedal.

It will be the same next time if we don't add some quality and change the way we play against teams like Chelsea.


Peter Morris
50 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:35:30
Typical Everton. Typical Koeman. Chelsea won't have many easier wins this season.

Koeman is completely risk averse, and is allowed to get away with such negativity when David Moyes was completely berated for it. Of course Koeman has had ten times the funds Moyes ever had to invest in playing staff, and what's the difference? Not much as far as I can see.

These players simply cannot keep hold of the ball, constantly surrendering cheap possession to teams who will kill you as a consequence. It was the same against Man City. Very poor. Very frustrating.

More shoulder shrugging to come from Mr Koeman, no doubt.

David Reid
51 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:35:45
Chelski will defeat most clubs at home but not as easy as this. Mr Koeman, your weaknesses have been exposed; it's unacceptable to make excuses today – we were given a lesson all over the park.

With the internationals arriving, it's time to concentrate all your efforts on purchasing a proven goal-scorer – no matter what the cost.

Gordon White
52 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:36:33
Colin (#39)

EXACTLY...

I'M Fuming... disgraceful display for an Everton team.

Kevin Tully
53 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:40:04
"I know, let's flog Lukaku for £90 million, and start the season with that young lad out of the U23 squad."

"Brilliant idea."

"What if we need another striker?"

"Sign that Giroud lad from Arsenal."

"What if he doesn't want to leave?"

"We'll think of something."

"Smashing..."

Karl Jones
54 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:40:36
This result has been coming for a long time. We've been pretty abysmal away again this season. Just do not look like scoring, and the ultra defensive mindset just doesn't work.

No chance of top six let alone top four unless we lose our complete inferiority complex when playing away from Goodison. We still need pace and a goalscorer who can hold the ball up.

Jay Wood
55 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:40:57
The introduction of Besic for Davies helped stop the constant flow and pressure on the defence from the first half.

Dom coming on for Sandro gave us an out ball with a player able to challenge, win and hold up the ball to give others time to get forward in support.

Maybe Chelsea took mercy on us, maybe the tweaking was the determining factor, but whilst not total parity with the home side, at least we competed and carried some threat in the 2nd half.

As for you Ciaran @ 21, I will repeatedly defend Williams as long as you (and others) by default repeatedly single him out for what I consider unjustified criticism.

Contrary to your claim that Williams "has the odd decent game, but mostly he's a calamity waiting to happen", the inverse is true. He has the odd off game, but nowhere near 'calamitous.'

It is pure invention on your part to claim he was "out of position for large parts of (the 1st) half." You clearly didn't not register the clearing headers, the clean tackles and telling blocks he made, throughout the game. There were NO obvious 'rickets' by Williams at all.

It says everything that you contrive to lay the blame at Williams' feet for both goals when quite clearly (for anyone capable of just and fair assessment) the primary culpability lay elsewhere.

"Bloody awful" you repeat, singling Williams out as you did.

The overall team performance was poor. Were Keane or Jags any better in the back 3? And which of the 3 did Koeman elect to replace by game's end? So why not the label 'bloody awful' against anyone else today from you?

George Cumiskey
56 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:41:34
What half-decent player would want to come to Everton after watching that display and managerial tactics?
Paul Kelly
57 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:41:35
Not even KITAP1, not even KITAP or KITA, because I couldn't tell you what would come after the A, maybe C for concede or CF – concede few. So I'll go for KITATI, – Keep It Tight And That's It! Exclamation mark optional.
Paul A Smith
58 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:45:50
Koeman needs at least another £100 million to spend to see this club kick on.

People going on about the defence being the start of the process need to start looking at the defence. Ruzomberok, Split, Stoke City, Man City and now Chelsea have broke through it enough for everyone to be raving about Pickford. And rightly so; he has been one to be happy with this season along with Rooney and Calvert-Lewin's effort.

The defence and defensive midfield are the most dull, non-pacey, non-footballing set-up we could possibly make from this squad so he needs better than Gana, Williams and Jagielka. Gana will try all day but he is no footballer and every week it's clear to see we lack a link between midfield and attack.

Can Klaassen become that player? I am not sure but I doubt he has the strength to unlock all the bigger teams. And he's always going to be stuck with Gana and Schneiderlin behind him.

Kieran Kinsella
59 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:46:18
Peter (#38),

Honestly it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. Holgate started 80 percent of our "attacks". He can't pass or cross which is an issue but every time he got the ball I was looking around for our midfielders and they were nowhere to be found. The three of them seemed to hide behind Chelsea players so they wouldn't have to get the ball.

Then upfront we had this pub player all over the place and this frustrated old statue who seemed to think he could talk the ref into awarding us a win. People say we need a striker. Okay, true... but who the fuck is going to get the ball from Holgate to the striker? Are we relying on Holgate getting fouled so Sigurdsson can take a free-kick?

Kevin Tully
60 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:46:33
One report: "Chelsea dominant to the point of farce."

Oh dear

Gordon White
61 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:47:58
Disgraceful performance. Koeman to blame 100%. Nothing to do with tiredness or amount of games. Just excuses. The manager's strategy is awful, together with some woeful displays. What a shower.
Raymond Fox
62 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:49:15
The result is not a surprise; it's what I expected.

It's the same each season, we assemble a squad that's good but not good enough to dislodge the usual big 6. Okay against the other 13 teams, but not skilled enough when the big games come round.

I would like to be optimistic that things will change but, unless we can attract the very top players, we are stuck in this limbo.

David Barks
63 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:52:34
In the future I'd prefer if Koeman would just announce ahead of time that we forfeit the match. Save the thousands of traveling Blues their hard earned money and let the poor players get their rest, 6 games into the season.

If he's going to continue to send out a team to just defend, don't bother. That shite is acceptable at other clubs, it should be condemned here.

Paul Rimmer
64 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:54:26
Awful performance. Felt sorry for Holgate as despite his effort he's not a full back. Jags is not a left-sided centre-back either... and Sandro isn't a centre-forward. There's 3 square pegs.

Koeman needs to have a think as we didn't stand a chance today with his tactics. We looked a lot better with Calvert-Lewin but we left it too late. Poor.

Gordon Crawford
65 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:55:37
I don't agree that we need the top players to beat these teams. What we have now should do so much better and win some of these games.

It's all to do with mindset good management and a bit of fortune. Today we didn't have any of those things.

Our manager is worryingly negative. Also, some of our players might take months to adapt to this league.

Kieran Kinsella
66 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:55:46
Jay Wood & Don Alexander

You sound a bit like OJ Simpson's attorneys defending the indefensible. I'm not one for hyperbole but you can't polish a turd. There's no excuses. There are no positives. None, zilch, zero.

Paul Smith
67 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:57:07
Expression through words is a cathartic experience. We were garbage, no speed, energy, craft, or know how.

They were the opposite. Quick, fantastic movement, skill etc.

I'm struggling to see any difference in our displays from last season. I think Leicester are better – never mind the usual suspects.

Pissed off, on a train full of happy Chelsea fans.

Ciarán McGlone
68 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:58:52
Jay

I do not repeatedly "by default" single Williams out at all. You just made that up to suit your crass and lazy 'whipping boy' comment. It's stable fare with you... straw man arguments and sniffy condescension. Fair and reasonable arbiter my arse!

All three defenders were not good today, but Williams was the worst in the first half. I saw him repeatedly dragged out of position and left for dead up the pitch. I also saw him concede possession regularly.

I also didn't lay the fault at Williams for 'both goals'... for the second goal he was in front of the goal then moved away into no-man's land. That doesn't mean I blame him for it, there were clearly other factors at play. You'd do well do actually read my posts, ruminate on them and actually think about them – if you intend to critique them.

Kieran Kinsella
69 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:59:28
David Barks (#62),

I don't think they're officially allowed to forfeit but I'd assume he plans to do so unless he positively states otherwise. Looking ahead, I'm sure he's already decided to forfeit the Man Utd game and I wouldn't be shocked if we forfeit Sunderland.

Tony Hill
70 Posted 27/08/2017 at 15:59:32
If we do manage to get a serious striking option(s) then we could still have an excellent season. There is a framework there and Big Nev said we'd see the best of things after Christmas.

But we absolutely have to rediscover our soul as a club, putting a premium on attractive, attacking football and especially away from home. Playing in fear is a betrayal of everything we stand for, or used to stand for. And I'm not, by any means, talking only about today.

Jay Wood
71 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:00:00
Kieran @ 65.

Eh?

Evidently hard of reading, Kieran.

David Hallwood
72 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:00:58
It's hard to see what Koeman's plan is, no money spent on pace or width, no cover for the rapidly slowing Baines but still playing with two holders in midfield regardless.

It's very early days but from what we've seen so far we're miles away from the top 5

James Morgan
73 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:01:18
Utterly shite and devoid of ideas. Miles behind the top four. We need about four more players just to compete.
Paul Tran
74 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:02:07
Interesting watching Robbie Earle getting quite animated on NBC. 'These are better players than Everton have had in years. They should be doing more than this, they should be having a go'.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

Well done, Dominic Calvert-Lewin, for coming on and having a go.

Andy Crooks
75 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:02:59
I worried that we would approach this game with fear. I was wrong, we approached it with terror. Utterly negative, appalling and clueless.

I posted a while ago that I expected we would challenge for a top four place. Well we won't; our squad may not be good enough but we will never know because the coach clearly believes we are not good enough.

Once again, we looked like a non-league team playing away in the FA Cup.

George Cumiskey
76 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:03:42
Kieran @65,

Well said and I think Ronald will need those self-same lawyers to explain to us how we imagined it all. And what really happened was that we played great and were extremely unlucky.

Paul Wyndham
77 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:05:42
Another shocking tactical cock-up from big Ron. Clueless, can't understand why Calvert-Lewin didn't start next to Sandro with Rooney just behind and Lennon out wide.

I'm afraid Tom Davies needs returning to Unsworth's ranks as he is surely not ready for this level of football, runs around like a headless chicken chasing the ball leaving big holes in the middle and allowing the opposition to run into those spaces.

The lack of a replacement up front for Lukaku is nothing short of a disgrace seeing as we new for most of last season he intended to leave. I'm baffled by the lack of replacement,should have had Vardy or Giroud already tapped up,also desperate for a left back and a centre back to partner Keane; we should've been in for Maguire early.

Big Ron, with the help of a section of our supporters have decided to hound Barkley out,a player though in bad form and suffering from a lack of concentration,something that could be addressed with the help of a sports psychologist,is still better than anything we have in midfield.

God help us away from home in the Europa with these tactics, pass sideways,pass back, sideways again, back to Pickford or Williams... HOOF! The inability to change formations and tactics mid-game is worse than anything we saw under Moyes.

Colin Glassar
78 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:07:16
Very worrying signs that our loser mentality away against the top teams continues be dominant.

I don't expect us to win every game but I do expect some effort, strategy and guts all of which were anonymous for 80 odd minutes.

I'd like to thank Chelsea for not humiliating us as that could've been a cricket score.

Get your thinking cap on Ronald, this is just unacceptable.

Rudi Coote
79 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:07:24
No surprises there then. I don't know why some if you think we have even the slightest chance of succeeding against the top teams. We couldn't do it against TEN men and 1-0 up.

Let's face it ANOTHER hard disappointing season looms. Get used to it.

Koeman isn't the right manager although I don't know who is either. He has a whole new batch of "good" players... must be his SHIT tactics I guess. Now who is looking forward to the derby? Oh yes . kopites. They're rubbing their greasy little hands at the prospect of yet another mauling.

Same old, same old.

Tony Twist
80 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:09:41
Unfortunately, this club is sleeping. They have spent money on players but those players are to replace the aged and try and raise the standard. Raise the standard – not transform the team.

I think the jury is out on whether we are better as a team or just comparable to last years team. This club has required a centre-forward for years but the narrow minded people concerned with transfers likes to test the water and see how we cope rather than get someone in. My hope is that they have a centre-forward lined up...

I hope they are also finalising who will take over from Koeman after his three-year project. Isn't the ex Dortmund manager available? I hope Moshiri and Co are learning from their dealings with players who enter their final year and acting more proactively with regards the manager.

Mark Tanton
81 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:11:02
How do you change an inferiority complex that has permeated an entire organisation? I just don't know. A couple of wins at these places would help.
Anthony Hughes
82 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:13:59
Watching the Liverpool vs Arsenal, two teams going at each other to win the game. Take note, Ronald, how the so-called big boys approach the game.
Paul A Smith
83 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:15:49
Gordon (#64), I do agree with you to a certain extent. Its not always a case of the best names win games.

I only saw about 20 minutes of today's game. Some of us including myself thought Gana was on a par with Kante on his day. He is far from it.

Thats just one. He's not getting near Matic I really suspect. These are the type we need to beat so we need players that can at least compete with them.

David Barks
84 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:17:08
Well, continuing to bring inferior managers won't solve the inferiority complex. Moyes from a lower league. Martinez from being relegated. Koeman from fucking Southampton.

City bring in a Championship winning manager. Chelsea bring in Championship winning managers. United tried Moyes and said fuck that, get me a championship winning manager. Liverpool, same.

You want to know who our next manager will be? Just look at who is battling relegation this season.

Anthony Hughes
85 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:17:43
Attack, attack, attack, a-fucking-attack.... Ronald – its' what gets yer goals!!!
Jay Harris
86 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:17:56
Apart from the last 10 minutes, this was as bad a display as I've seen in recent years.

The only positives for me were Calvert-Lewin showing how good he can be with proper support and Besic showing enthusiasm and skill.

Can we please see the back of this deep defending shit. We had centre-halves and the goalkeeper falling over each other at times.

Colin Glassar
87 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:20:35
If Ronald blames the team for this gutless "performance", I think I will go apeshit.
Martin Mason
89 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:22:59
The only positive thing I can say is that perhaps Koeman wants the players to get used to this defensive back 3 system in the belief that, when it all clicks, we'll start to play brilliantly.

It could also be that the players are just not playing as he wants them to. Lastly we had a long Euro trip and several injuries but they're only excuses, we've been pretty rubbish all season really. So disappointing today in terms of skill and work rate.

I can't tell Koeman anything about football but perhaps I can suggest that we don't have the players to make a success of back 3.

Barry Williams
90 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:22:59
I often come on here asking for patience and I often back Koeman. Today, he got it well wrong though. 2-0 flattered us and it has proven 1 thing to me, we need 3 more players in before Thursday if we are going to compete. Yes, the schedule has been difficult, yes we have had injuries, but if you have high ambitions, which I think we have, you need solutions to these things. The fact that our elder statesmen in Rooney, Baines, Jagielka and Williams have played so many minutes in such a short time tells a story indeed.

We had zero shots on target today. Sandro clearly needed to be taken off before he was, and when Lewin, then Lennon came on, we actually stretched them. Why we didn't bring them on at half time, I do not know. Yes, Koeman probably got that wrong.

To end on a bright note (quite hard to say the least). We have an international break, thus some rest and recuperation for the players. We may have some players in and boy do we need them, by the next game. Klassen will be fit, hopefully. Sigurdsson fitter and sharper, Sandro over his injury (he was awful today, but will get better me thinks!). But, we cannot be playing the 4 senior guys as much as we have. Seeing as Galloway is out on loan I am assuming if we don't sign a lb, then Garbutt or Connolly will be used. If not Martina, it will be an interesting couple of days.

Koeman obviously knows better than me, as do a lot of fans, would a midfield 3 and an attacking 3 have worked today given the fit personnel at our disposal?

This defeat may provide the extra impetus to get the new players in that we need. Here's hoping!

David McMullen
92 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:24:10
It was a really disappointing performance. We just didn't turn up what ever the reason we showed no interest in beating Chelsea. At least not until Calvert-Lewin came on.

Now who you "blame" is up to you Koeman certainly needs to look at why he's repeated the Williams/Jags & one other 3 centre half defence again like last season as it just won't fucking work against these!!

Aside from that Sandro was just zero, nothing, nothing did he contribute. God love Pickford, Keane and Calvert-Lewin because they were at least having a go.

Colin Glassar
93 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:26:56
Koeman, "We need two more players". Okay.
Anthony Hughes
94 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:30:37
Calver-Lewin on fire the last couple of games so what happens... on the bench – brilliant.
Dave Abrahams
95 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:35:36
I never saw the game, listened to the Live Forum. From what I have seen this season we haven't really played well, only the first half versus Split.

I am not a big fan of three at the back, but when you have two of them who are not comfortable at bringing the ball out of defence, Williams and Jagielka, I do not see the point of playing it, it was abandoned at half-time versus Stoke City.

None of us enjoy Everton losing but when the game is given up without a fight then it is more than hard to bear and it happens too much under Koeman – especially away from home.

I'm echoing myself from last season when often I had to say how sorry I was for the fans who went down there today to watch that poor excuse at giving our opponents a fight; unexcusable, getting up in the early hours of the morning and getting home late at night to watch, what?

You will have to do much better than that, Ronnie, or there will be plenty joining Darren Hind and his summing up of you. Doubtless a good few have joined Darren after today; I'm moving slowly towards that corner.

Bill Gall
96 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:37:44
Yes, we need more players but who are you going to get.? We may have the money but that will only inflate the prices of players we need,and also clubs will be very reluctant to sell their better players that will leave them very little time to replace, even if they have the money.

Everton are supposed to be a team in progress, but today the team, and most of all the manager, showed very little progress.

Barry Williams
98 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:39:50
Okay, last season it was 5-0. This season 2-0. So, if we carry on like this, we will beat them 1-0 at their place next season!
Kieran Kinsella
99 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:42:02
Remember in the summer all the conspiracy theories saying we'd miss out on Sandro? Ha! Malaga took us for mugs. £5 million? they must be laughing all the way to the bank.
Ray Roche
100 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:42:44
Dave, I watched the match on a stream. It was grim. No fight, little idea, poor set-up, it's difficult to find any positives at all.

However, Calvert-Lewin showed that he can lift the team when he came on. He shows real promise. Sandro was isolated and didn't turn up. We need quality, desperately.

Simon Bates
101 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:43:39
If you get smashed 5 -0 using a certain formation, seriously, who in their right mind goes back there again the following season, albeit with better players, and deploys the same tactics?

Then, when these tactics clearly aren't working, who waits until the 83rd minute to take a defender off? It's not as if it was 0-0, we were 2 down at half-time and hadn't even been in their box!!!

Why didn't he change it? I don't understand where that decisive, ruthless mentality has gone, that saw him change things before half-time at West Brom, when we were 2 down and we won it.

Is there something about Everton that turns managers into blind, stubborn, set-in-their-ways, pigheaded bullshitters lately?

I really thought more of Ronald Koeman as a manager; I really hoped he could see things before, during, and after games... with the ability to alter a games tactically and the character to see, admit and learn from his shortcomings. Only then will he be a top manager.

I really hope and pray he gets this right and proves my alarmingly increasing doubts wrong, as I really don't know what failure of this project would mean for either him or our beloved club.

Come on, Ronald, sort this negative approach out. We actually look good in an attacking formation, that's the most frustrating thing.

Steavey Buckley
102 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:44:53
Koeman has not learnt from playing Chelsea away last time, by playing a back five consisting of Williams, Jagielka and Baines. All 3 players past their 30s. What a shame Maguire was not bought for a relative low price from Hull City. Now he plays for Leicester, and has been picked for England alongside Keane.

Not one of Everton's forwards had a shot on goal, and in total Everton had no shots on target. Everton maybe evolving but there are missing links everywhere. No great full backs; not another decent centre half alongside Keane; no width and no proven Premier League striker. And Koeman has committed to spending nearly £200 million without them.

Alan J Thompson
103 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:45:59
Total crap!

What does it take for this manager to work out that three centre halves is at least one too many? It didn't work last year and it hasn't this season.

Davies now seems to suffer the Schneiderlin and Gana fear of crossing the halfway line. When he started in the first team he'd play a pass and move to take a return. Now. like all Koeman's favourites, it's play a pass and run away so nobody can blame you for getting it wrong.

It seems that the only thing being instilled is the fear of getting the blame for trying something positive. All players with the ability and fearlessness to take a man on, one on one, have been despatched by this manager. We are now without pace and ability. Lump it long because we have nobody willing to take an opponent on in case it goes wrong.

Second half, Conte put men wide on both sides of the pitch and that totally threw Everton out. Outplayed and out-managed! A top half league position may have been good enough for his previous clubs but this is what is known as mediocrity. Please, let's see as much effort into going forward as it seems is put into trying to defend.

Clive Rogers
104 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:47:36
The three at the back will never work with Jags and Williams as neither can play the ball out. Holgate, although playing well is not a wing back.

Davies is not playing as he was last season. Sandro and Klaassen don't look good enough so far. We need a proper striker to lead the line and a wide man on. Why we don't go for Mahrez, a proven Premier League player, I can't understand.

William Cartwright
105 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:48:35
ToffeeWebbers are an intelligent, knowledgeable group who may have inconsistent and overly negative views of the same game(s), but there is a trend in the views presented. Too much emphasis on building up slowly from the back, and a fearsome approach when playing the big sides.

We are now in the start-up stage proper and we have a squad generally of Koeman's choosing, and boy do we look shit.

Derek Knox
106 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:48:52
Dave Abrahams @ 96, bravo, encore, you have hit the proverbial nail, on the head there mate.

None of us, well I hope not, ever want us to lose, but if we do, and we have been the better team, or put in a brilliant performance and been unlucky (a word so often associated with us) we can reluctantly accept it.

To go out today, despite the losses through injury or suspension, I would have thought the player's brought in would bust a gut to impress and cement a berth in the side. No such luck (see, there's that word again), they looked like they had never played before, let alone played together as a team.

I know much of today's abysmal performance can be laid firmly at Koeman's door, but the players must look at themselves too. Even though many were played out of position.

Ivan Split
107 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:57:23
As I said before, this anti-football and cowardly games against Man City, Hajduk Split, and now Chelsea talks a lot about the mindset of Ronald Koeman. I hope he will quickly go to Barcelona.
Alan Bodell
108 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:58:18
Only two good things come out of this weekend, the lazy Beigian lump missing his penalty and that big mouth ex-Utd fan converted to a gobshite getting well and truly twatted, hoping the US taxman twats him too.
John G Davies
109 Posted 27/08/2017 at 16:59:33
I can't put up any defense for that performance.

We are desperate for a centre-forward who can hold the ball. If we don't get one, we're not challenging the top 6.

Colin Glassar
110 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:01:26
Oh, how we miss that lazy Belgian lump!
John Charles
111 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:02:49
Not really surprised by what I have seen today. This is Ronald Koeman's style of play and about his ambition as a manager. Some okay results this season but, apart from 1st half against Split, we have been very poor.
Christy Ring
112 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:04:05
Absolute crap. Koeman has started every game with 3 at the back, and it doesn't work.

We need at least 3 signings by the close of the window. A left sided centre-back, we have only one left back, we haven't replaced Lukaku, and there's no shape to the team.

Chelsea leading 2-0, he brings off Davies, and brings on another defensive midfielder; then he brings on Lennon for Jagielka with only 7 mins left. Baffled.

Mark Morrissey
113 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:06:50
I sense that mentally the team have given up before they go out onto the pitch. They are missing Romelu's presence up front and, just like us, they are wondering just where will the goals come from.

If we fail to bring in a striker before Thursday's deadline I'll be majorly concerned. Where is the money for new players? And don't quote me the money we got for Romelu Lukaku as being money spent.

Tony Hill
114 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:11:57
How is it that Koeman says the right things about the need for us to be on the front foot, about ball retention etc but can't translate that to the pitch? What is the dynamic between him and the players?

Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Keane all assure us that Ronald was a big factor in their arrival and yet somehow it isn't gelling. I don't know what it is but there's a gap somewhere and we're falling into it.

Interesting as well that the manager is calling for delivery of more players. Hope everything's all right and we're all pulling together.

John Charles
115 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:13:01
We need players but Koeman's record with us does not inspire confidence that we will get what we need.

Not counting youngsters for the future, we have:

Pickford – looks great
Keane – looks good
Gueye – generally good
Rooney – better than feared
Sigurdsson – fingers crossed

Klaassen, Sandro & Martina – early days but no real evidence of anything special
Schneiderlin – solid but offers nothing going forward
Bolasie – who knows, very inconsistent
Williams – awful

We have added no pace or craft to the team and have to play slow deliberate football because they are the players we have bought.

Nitesh Kanchan
116 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:14:00
Koeman's comments on Mirallas means it is the end of road for him with us. First Deulofeu, then Niasse, then Barkley... and now Mirallas. At this rate, we won't be left with any front players if Koeman picks a fight with every one of them.
Anthony Hughes
117 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:14:25
I rest my case.
Chris Williams
118 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:15:00
Too many players didn't turn up today. You can't blame the manager for that. Too many players didn't fight today. You can't blame the manager for that. Rooney was going red in the face with exasperation because even simple passes weren't made, runs weren't made. They weren't being professional.

The manager selected the system used and prepared the players for it. They played that system last Monday but not on Thursday. He must have been satisfied they were ready to go, and he was wrong. He needs to decide why and look at himself, his preparation, his selection and his tactics. It didn't work and it is his job to decide why and what he can do better. No excuses.

The players didn't execute whatever plans had been set. They need to look at that and accept no excuses too.

I think (hope) we have the people strong enough to have that discussion. We're supposed to have a lot of leaders around the dressing room. Well, best they fucking lead and quick because more no shows like this one can't be tolerated, not by us but Moshiri will have a point of view too.

At least we won't have to listen to Lukaku's bullshit in the next week or so, but I really hope we are delighted by what unravels between now and Thursday.

Kevin Tully
119 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:15:40
You could at least partly understand the approach if we had a Vardy type forward who could get in behind on the counter, but playing as we do, without a pacey outlet or two up front seems mind-numbingly amateurish.
David Johnson
120 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:16:26
Three away games within the space of seven days, one in Croatia, is bordering on the ridiculous. Then you have to consider that we've been up against the Champions and Champions-elect. Still all things considered it was a woeful performance and shows the lack of any real depth in our squad.

Lots of players have either moved on or were watching on TV while feigning injury,awaiting a big money move. These next few days are crucial and will provide an indication as to whether the days of Kenwright's shenanigans are truly over.

They pay us lots of TV money for a reason so we better just get on with it and add the depth to compete with the ever more demanding TV schedules.

Frank Crewe
121 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:17:32
Koeman keeps picking player out of position. Until such times as Coleman and Bolasie are fit, what is wrong with a straight forward 4-4-2? Some pace out wide and up front. This isn't rocket science but sometimes I think managers like to give the impression that it is.

If Koeman wants to manage Barça one day, he's going to have to do a lot better than this.

Pickford
Martina Keane Williams Baines
Lookman Sigurdsson Schneiderlin Sandro / Mirallas
Rooney Calvert-Lewin

This is the set up what we currently have the players for. But these days, anything considered "old-fashioned" won't be countenanced.

Paul Doyle
122 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:17:39
£150m on the pitch and not one chance created in the first half, a disgrace. We got rid of a negative Ginger Jock to be replaced with a negative clueless Ginger Tulip.

He got out of jail last season blaming lack of fitness and everything on Martinez; now it's his team and his responsibility. Great players don't usually become great managers... oh, and Ramirez is shite.

Anthony Hughes
123 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:20:31
Transfer window countdown on two fucking fast wingers... one fucking mobile quick centre forward...an attacking mentality from our manager... and more red wine for me please.
Eddie Dunn
124 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:21:21
Koeman's stubbornness persisting with this formation and his painfully slow tactical changes are frustrating the hell out of me. Rooney looked tired, gave the ball away too often and should have been given three yellows for his cheek to the ref.

Poor Mason stuck at right back. I would drop Jags or Williams and play him with Keane.

Baines can only skip inside and poses no threat down the left. We had nobody to hold it up until Calvert-Lewin came on.

We must be the easiest side to defend against. I am becoming disenchanted with our manager. We are becoming a slow, awkward team, lacking zip and invention. I would wait until the end of the season and have a rethink about his role in the "project".

Trevor Peers
125 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:21:23
Ridiculous that we haven't signed a proper target man by this stage of the season. Sandro looks very poor, his confidence is shot to bits for some reason. We we're very poor up front against City as well. Opposition goalies must love playing Everton, they never have a shot to save.

Ron seems clueless as how to put things right, it's all very well playing to a reasonable standard against poor or average opposition, but he seems dumfounded against quality teams, it's pitiful at times to watch. He's sold nearly every winger at the club and not replaced any of them, very odd I'd say.

Not very confident he will sign the right type of player we need up front and that might be his last throw of the dice. This time next season, he might be gone.

Steve Brown
126 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:22:47
Starting with a back three – didn't work

Playing Holgate at wing back to target long diagonal balls from Pickford – didn't work

Playing Tom Davies ahead of Besic – didn't work

Using Sandro as a lone striker instead of Calvert-Lewin – didn't work

Including no pace in the team – didn't work.

Only changing the formation after 82 minutes – criminal.

Anthony Hughes
127 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:24:07
To be fair, Sandro was £5 million for a reason. A limited footballer who was in no way ready to lead the line for a top 4 chasing team.
Colin Glassar
128 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:27:26
I hope Giroud is havin second thoughts.
David Barks
129 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:27:29
And just think, if it wasn't for the linesman incorrectly flagging for offside on Thursday, Pickford would have been sent off and surrendered a penalty in the first half, and Gilfy's once-in-a-lifetime shot from 50+ yards out, we would have been knocked out of Europe before the group stages.

We are so unbelievably poor and our performances are getting worse with every match.

James Hughes
130 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:33:23
David (#134) I am going to invite you and Larkin round to my house for a beer. I need cheering up and I reckon you are the ones to do it.
Kieran Kinsella
131 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:34:53
May be time just to call it a day. We can't keep throwing good money after bad.

If we can't get it together in the next few weeks then probably best to forget the stadium and see what we have to do to wind up the club.

Do we have to play the remaining games or can we forfeit? I think the players contracts get cancelled if we shut up shop so no out of pocket costs.

Brian Porter
132 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:34:54
Hate to say it, but I firmly believe the great messiah, Ronald Koeman, is a coward!

None of us wants to lose, but we can accept defeat if the team plays well in the game. Koeman seems to accept defeat in advance, sends out an ultra defensive line up with no hope of goals once we fall behind.

We thought Martinez was tactically inept but Koeman is somehow making him look like a bloody genius. At least we could score goals in his time, even though we leaked them at the other end.

Sending a team out with little or no hope of winning is an abdication of his responsibility to the club, his employers and the fans, who pay to watch their team at least try to win football matches, not lie down and die because the manager doesn't have the balls to send them out to try to win.

How long before serious questions are asked at board level about just what knowledge of tactics Koeman truly possesses? Last season, this season, the formula for away games hasn't changed at all.

David Barks
133 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:35:14
James.

Sorry. I think the guy who was assigned to provide Donald Trump only good news recently quit. You could look him up and see if he's available.

Sean Patton
134 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:36:18
Well that was a sterling display from a £150M team and he wants the board to give him more money.We have won 4 away games in his tenure and not since January have we got a victory outside of Goodison. If he sets up like today against a Brighton or a Huddersfield, he will be on borrowed time.
Dave Ganley
135 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:36:30
We don't seem to have moved on from the frightened mentality whenever we go to the so-called bigger clubs. Martinez just didn't bother with defence; now it appears Koeman is not too bothered with attack. Surely there's a happy medium.

You don't need to be ridiculous going all out attack but you do need an intent to win the game. I said before the Man City game that we shall see how far we've come and that and today just showed we haven't moved anywhere. Frightened to death against City in the 2nd half and frightened to death today.

I know it's early days and I'm trying not to be too pessimistic but even allowing for time for the players to gel, the formation just invites the better teams to come and attack us. I absolutely hate this 2 defensive midfielders, no need for it. It's a modern thing which even Moyes never used. Also 3 at the back just doesn't work for us. A flat back 4, we look much more comfortable. Those lamenting Lukaku not being here seem to forget why he was called a lazy lump, especially in these kinds of games.

Koeman needs to go back to the drawing board and make us a force – not a cowering bunch of amateurs only concerned with keeping the scores down.

Ian Riley
136 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:41:05
£140 million spent already!

Look on the bright side, we lost 5-0 in November at the bridge.

Need a striker and two wingers! Anyone got a spare £100 million going spare?

David Barks
137 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:42:11
And another thought. The RS were behind us in the table and had just gotten a draw against us in the derby when they said enough is enough and got Klopp. Many on here told those of us complaining about that horrific derby performance that the RS were on the way down and we were on the way up. That we don't want to be like them.
Anthony Hughes
138 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:43:32
Buy pace, buy attacking footballers buy direct players play attacking football, and guess what? – it gets you goals. Koeman's wankfest with central midfielders is embarrassing in the extreme.
Brent Stephens
139 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:44:42
#136 "If we can't get it together in the next few weeks then probably best to forget the stadium and see what we have to do to wind up the club".

Quite funny, that.

Paul A Smith
140 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:48:29
How many people thought selling Lukaku to the team that finished one place above us so we could "rebuild the squad"?

I stick by what I said weeks ago. How many of these players are as quality as Moyes (who had no money) signings?

Cahill? Arteta, Pienaar, Lescott, Distin, Jagielka?

Pickford I reckon could go in that bracket. Rooney and Sigurdsson we already knew were good players.

As of yet I don't believe many more fit into that bracket of quality.

Mike Oates
141 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:50:38
It is early but I'm very pessimistic . Koeman has bought no pace at all. Just look at what the other lot have done to Arsenal, pace pace and pace, quality players who are comfortable on the ball and can pass 5 yards and 25 yards.

We've bought pedestrian players who with the 3 cart horses at the back deliver slow slow slow play and when they have to pass it, inevitably give it away. We haven't played well at all this season other than 1st half vs Split at Goodison.

How the hell is he going to fit Davies, Sigurdsson, Klaassen and Rooney in the team. Has he bought with vision and game plan or just players he's fancied for years. Who decided on Lookman? The lad is petrified to play, doesn't fit with a slow play team. I'm worried to hell...

Anthony Hughes
142 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:51:40
I know we buy Klassen(no 10) we have Rooney who always drops into the the no 10 position lets go and spunk 45 mill on another no 10... ridiculous transfer policy when we're crying out for pace to suit out dour defensive/ counter attacking style
Andy Crooks
143 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:54:15
It was embarassing and we could have had a proper thumping. The performance of the coach was inept. I have defended him and supported him but that was truly spineless; no excuses, just truly abysmal management and the horrible realization that we have some shit players.
Colin Glassar
144 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:54:42
12th now, 12th!! Could be worse, we could be Arsenal.
Chris Williams
145 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:54:57
Brent

I was hoping that was irony

Paul A Smith
146 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:55:02
Dave (#141), Moyes never used Neville and Heitinga in midfield? Neville and Osman quite often too and they couldn't outrun anyone.

Koeman is getting like Moyes. One thing I hated about Moyes – he nearly always finished the game with the team he should have started with. Too little, too late, too often.

It's a terrible sign of having a lack of something. Whether that be confidence, skill or pace it left us short of what could be achieved most years and continued under Martinez.

Brent Stephens
147 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:56:17
It was, Chris! You know me.
Gordon Crawford
148 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:56:41
We won't be buying players with pace, Ronald doesn't do pace. All the players we have brought in have average pace. It's very very annoying.
Anthony Hughes
149 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:57:12
Hate to say it but just maybe we have a manager who is crippled by fear of defeat instead of the joy of chasing victory.
David Johnson
150 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:58:21
Arsenal on three points is the only bright spot on a shit day. Sixth is still on and we've had one good result and one bad one In our two away games against arguably the best two teams in the top six.
Paul A Smith
151 Posted 27/08/2017 at 17:59:00
Ian (#142), Koeman won't use 2 wingers ever. He is one of those managers that has one as an inside wide man (like Sigurdsson) because tracking back is at the forefront of his mind.
Anthony Hughes
153 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:01:27
Or, David, we've taken one point from a possible six against our so called top six rivals... not good enough if we aspire to be one of the big boys.
Brent Stephens
154 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:03:03
I dislike it if the manager gets it wrong or the players get it wrong but when we get a combination of both, as today... And then to see the pace and intensity Liverpool played with today just makes it all feel so much worse.

I wouldn't have rested anybody from the starting line-up today just because they played previous games in a demanding week. We have two weeks off now ffs, so I would have set them to the task from the off and then, only then, subbed them if they really ran out of legs. Calvert-Lewin should have started, for me – so far he's looked more of a threat than Sandro.

Mike Allen
155 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:05:39
Dreadful to say the least. Why continue to play a system that is a total failure against the quality sides? The only time we looked to have any kind of threat was when we played quick ball up to DCL.

We continue to fuck around at the back and turn away from simple forward passes.
John Keating
156 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:09:02
Pathetic effort to say the least. Top 4? We will be lucky to get in the top half if we continue these tactics. It seems like Moyes is alive and well and living inside Koeman's body.

Why are we playing so defensively against teams? We seem to be playing for a draw in the hope we can snatch a goal and hang on or just hang on! Once we go behind, it's more or less game over.

Until we change this mindset and tactics, we will never progress to the next level... in fact, we will be lucky to stay at the level we are.

Paul Birmingham
157 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:09:28
Terrible display, and if aspirations are to be met then we need a left-footed centre-back, and a centre-forward who's proven. 3 games in a week is no excuse as the top sides do turns, year-in & year-out.

I don't mean not losing but to lose without a fight, and the usual last 20 minutes of having a go, isn't good enough.

The die was cast from the off and our shapeless setup gave this to Chelsea. They went to half pace in the 2nd half and let us off the hook.

Our season will get better but the mentality must change to become winners rather than just turning up for a game.

Kieran Kinsella
158 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:10:22
Only four points off the relegation zone.
Mark Tanton
159 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:11:24
Wonder if this team could do with Mirallas and Barkley?
Darren Hind
160 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:14:29
This thread reads like the last track on the Roger Waters album "Radio Kaos".

Surprised by the number of people coming on and labelling the manager a coward... Even Colin weighs in at post 39.


Colin Glassar
161 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:15:56
Barkley definitely, Mark
Stan Schofield
162 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:16:54
Koeman has, once again, basically blamed the players for the performance. Apparently no admission of any tactical errors on his part.
Stan Schofield
163 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:19:39
Although Koeman says he wants more signings, would he know what to do with them if he got them? On too many occasions, especially away, he doesn't seem to know how to set up the players he's got.
David Johnson
164 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:19:46
Barkley would blossom surrounded by these players. Sadly I can't see him having a change of heart.
Stan Schofield
165 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:21:05
David, I agree that Barkley would blossom, but only if the manager sets the tactics to make best use of the players.
Colin Glassar
166 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:21:15
Unlike Roberto, I've never been a vocal fan of Ronald, Darren.

Like any Everton manager, I'm prepared to give them time to shape their team and see what happens but this was beyond a joke.

No shape, no effort, no clue. Not good enough and don't give me the "three games in six days" nonsense.

I'll give him until November and if we are still playing dull, turgid, senseless crap, then I would expect Moshiri to act. Surely he can't be a wet rag like Bill?

David Johnson
167 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:28:47
To be fair to Ronnie, he has tried to tackle the issue of the lack of goal scorers throughout the team and he clearly hasn't finished in the transfer market. Most on here were saying a top-half finish would be progress last season. He needs the time and the money to get it right.
Jay Woods
168 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:31:30
We play like we have no attacking threat from midfield... are we sure we want to sell Barkley after all?

At present, the team looks like it lacks balance. There is too much emphasis on defensive midfield play and precious little on attack. And there's not much attacking substance on our right (not that the left is light-years ahead). The return of Coleman and Bolasie can't come quick enough, perhaps.

But on the other hand, we can't dismiss the fact that the players were cream-crackered after the previous two games.

Martin Mason
169 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:31:36
Darren@162, how do you know that the poor performance wasn't due to the failure of the players to be able to follow the tactics dictated to them by the manager rather than the tactics being wrong?

Nobody is happy with that dreadful performance today but it's possibly like comparing weather with climate.

What I will say though is that if the long term strategy is to play anything like today then I want no part of it. I want Everton to play like Liverpool. I want them to have a good humoured extrovert like Klopp as manager. There, I've said it.

Peter Laing
170 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:35:03
5 at the back is never going to work with Jags and Williams as you cannot teach an old dog new tricks. Our season hangs in the balance on a left sided Centre Half and a target man. Failure to recruit and for me it will be much of the same and a seventh place finish at best. We lack goals.
John Charles
172 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:37:38
Ronnie has not been inactive in transfer market. This is his team and his style of play. 8 of the starters today have been brought in on his watch. He has also already spent well north of £150m on players he wants and unfortunately we are still poor.
How much time and how much money should he be given?
Paul Holmes
173 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:38:16
Imo, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion, Barkley and McCarthy would not improve this team. (Did you not watch our games last season?)

We need to buy a centre forward and get Bolasie and Coleman back to give us pace in the team.

The manager needs to stop being so negative and show us the type of manager he was at Southampton who had a good record against the top teams.

Christopher Marston
174 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:40:03
Why do we just play into the big teams' hands all of the time? Why do we never seem to play fearlessly and with freedom? Why do our players never seem to run off the ball? Why is there no movement? Why why why?????
Tony Hill
175 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:41:45
What concerns me greatly is that It seems improbable that Koeman will suddenly see the light and tell the troops to go out and play with flair. Is it in him?

He's as frozen as the players. Is it because he knows, at the age of 54, that he needs to get this one right and has developed a dread of risk and is just overwhelmed?

Home truths need telling. Perhaps Mr Rooney can oblige – it might be the biggest service he ever does Everton. We must wake up.

Oliver Molloy
176 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:44:20
Did any of us really expect us to win today? I didn't... so probably should not grumble too much; however, 49 minutes it took to get into the Chelsea box... I mean, come on, for fuck's sake.

As was clearly evident, we are just not in the same league as Chelsea and the rest who finished above us last season and three games in a week was always going to be tough. Of course we might get the odd result if we catch any of these teams on a bad day, get a bit of luck, and we have a good day.

Moving forward, the big concern for me is there is no drive from our team, everything we do is pedestrian, we are back to this sideways passing again, offensively we are non-existent. We have not got one player who is driving us forward from midfield, is it the players or is it the manager?

This side / squad are not good enough to challenge or beat any of the top six, in my opinion. I really cannot see us improving on seventh. First defeat of the season, but it has been coming.

Our neighbours are light-years ahead of us, I'm dreading playing them and the rest having seen what we have to date.

I understand Koeman is building his own side and that takes time, but where is he going with it football wise? Defensively and offensively we are lacking (Williams is starting to worry me greatly), we need a proven goalscorer fast!

No excuses for Koeman any more – this is now his side, and he has this season to show he is not the pretender many think him to be.

Darren (#162),

Who is the best? Who holds the aces?


Soren Moyer
177 Posted 27/08/2017 at 18:54:21
What is NOT wrong with this team? Same awful performance and tactics, week-in & week-out. In fact we have regressed so much its unbelievable!!
Darren Hind
178 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:00:46
Oliver

Clever last line mate - cap doffed

Colin Glassar
179 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:06:25
Tony, I'm also hoping Rooney has had a word or two with his team mates and manager.
Colin Glassar
180 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:14:20
Put Vardy, Costa, Jiménez even Benzema up front and they will struggle to make any impact with our pedestrian style of play. Too many players in midfield who are too similar in style.
Paul Tran
181 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:15:28
We played a better team today. They had great movement, first touch and awareness. And a £70m striker.

The big difference was that within the first five minutes, you could see how they were set up, who had what job, how they were going to link defence to midfield to attack.

Better players, better coach.

Now, I know we had injuries, it was clear that at least half the team were knackered and/or not match fit, but there was a clear difference.

Not for the first time, it looked like the midfielders and forwards had been randomly thrown on the pitch. Not for the first time, the players were hesitant, every movement was telegraphed. Not for the first time, we offered little in attack.

To me this was reminiscent of Martinez seasons two and three, where the coach says some good things, then delivers something different on the pitch. Tactically inept, or unable to get his message through to the players? Or both?

Koeman is Moshiri's man. Won three, drawn two, lost one aren't sacking stats, but the absence of a pattern of play and attacking intent are alarming. I'll judge him at Christmas, when teams are in the position their performances merit. It may gel, we could be playing good stuff and winning games. If not, he'll be under severe pressure after being backed and buying 'his' players.

He might be Moshiri's man, but I think he'll be a lot less benevolent than Kenwright.

Kim Vivian
182 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:16:51
I am not going to add my voice to this diatribe because it is all being said, although some stuff in the extreme but what I notice is there is not one single post defending us today. That is unusual and speaks volumes in itself really.

Giroud and second thoughts? What I would say is that I would have loved him to come but if he had been thinking about coming, he's probably having second thoughts now.

Winston Williamson
183 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:19:04
So tired of the mentality we depict in these games. Makes us supporters think what the hell is the point in even attending!!

We've lost the game before it starts.

We can predict the result (not the score) before a ball is kicked:

Man City (a) draw
Chelsea (a) loss
Man Utd (a) loss (unless Moyes is managing Utd)
Liverpool (a) loss
Arsenal (a) loss
Spurs (a) loss

Can even predict the level of performance too:

Man City - battle like mad for a draw
Chelsea - don't even break a fucking sweat
Man Utd - battle for half an hour and roll over
Liverpool - don't even try, just give them four goals and have fucking done with it
Arsenal - battle for a bit, relax, battle a bit more...and fucking lose to a late goal
Spurs - see Chelsea performance

So fucking tired of the whole thing! Chelsea were twated at home first game...three easy points off us each season though!!

Andy Meighan
185 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:24:22
Well said, Colin. I've been saying the same thing for a while. As decent a player as Sigurdsson is... is he really any better than what we've got? And by that, I mean Barkley? I personally don't think he is; obviously time will tell...

The way Koeman sets his teams up away from home is an insult to everyone who's paid good money and is criminal. Witness his team selection at Anfield last season – shocking!

Sorry but this season will echo last season: decent home form, abysmal away and out the cups without troubling the big boys. I'd wager a bet we'll struggle in the Europa League as well given our shit away record under him.

I can take getting beat, it's not a problem, it happens to every team in the world but getting beat without looking like we care. Well, that's another thing...

Dave Abrahams
188 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:26:13
Winston (#183) – what's more depressing is we will get beat and put in more poor performances against teams a lot worse than the six you have named, especially away from home.
Tony Everan
189 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:33:38
Lukaku has not been replaced. Teams will throw men forward because the ywill feel we have less threat of hurting them.

Lukaku shouldn't have been sold until we had a replacement of similar quality. Until we get someone in who can score 20+, we won't be improving on 7th.

I am watching developments and living in hope...

Graham Coldron
190 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:36:33
Winston, an excellent piece and sums up exactly how we play in those games – especially the Anfield one.
Charles Barrow
191 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:38:12
All our performances this season have been poor or dreadful. If people are honest, we played poorly for most of the game against Hajduk Split and Man City but a good result turns people's head.

I was at the Chelsea game last season and this one. The difference – we were battered due to dreadful tactics both times but with different personnel. Koeman is hopeless and is spending money like water on the same type of players. Bizarre.


Andy Meighan
192 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:40:55
Lack of pace throughout the side seems to be the common denominator here. Now isn't it funny that we can all see it yet the man who's getting paid a fortune can't? Can't all be wrong can we?
James Stewart
193 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:42:38
Piss poor. I am a fan of Koeman but he has to take his share of the blame for that. Tactically it was negative, naive and quite frankly Moyes like at his worst.
Jim Knightley
195 Posted 27/08/2017 at 19:45:57
We were poor today – we didn't come close to getting a result.

There is a context though, and only a fool would ignore it. That is the third away game in (just under) 6 days. We had a real lack of energy and I'm baffled that Rooney started again. We can't prepare properly or be right physically with such a tight turnaround.

That said, there are problems beyond that. Tactics were not great today – the lack of pace again seemed an issue. We need more pace at centre-back and more up top – much of our season's success depends on it. I'm hopeful we can get it in before the window shuts.

4 points isn't a bad start – but, as I've said before, we won't threaten the top 4 with this squad and Europa League football to boot. Progress will need to be gradual and we have to perform in the cup – we've got enough talent to win things and we need to be moving forward, even with Lukaku's and Barkley's departures.

This is a big season for several in this squad and a last season for some too I expect. It is also a massive season for Koeman – last season represented progress, although it was not barnstorming, but Koeman needs to prove he can move us forward.

Andy Crooks
196 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:02:12
I really do not expect immediate success. I understand it will take time... but how about a sign, bit of improvement, something to cling to.

For me, today was the Martinez at Southampton moment. The first moment of doubt I have felt about Koeman. It was gutless.

Paul Kelly
197 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:03:44
Problem is (not definite, but a hypothesis) there will be plenty of counter arguements against my point but Ronny was a defender, a very good one, his mindset is defence first; everything else optional.

I made the same mistake when I managed, it's ingrained in yer and judging by his set-up, it would take a major intervention for him to be any other way.

I'm not saying all managers that are defenders prioritise defence first, I know from first hand experience that is how you think if you were. TGT was; El Bob must've played on a different planet, interstellar league or something.

Brian Harrison
198 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:03:49
Paul,

You criticize Klopp and Pochettino for playing crash bang wallop football as it isn't sustainable. Both finished in the top 4 and you know I would love a bit of crash bang football as you call it. Because going to Goodison at the moment is not very enjoyable. Just to see us come out the blocks quickly and really have a go at sides, instead of this measured football that is neither exciting or winning games.

By the way you say you prefer Conte's approach, so what was that different between his style and Klopp and Pochettino. He played Hazard, Pedro and Costa up front hardly pedestrian players who played a slow measured game like we do.

Tony Marsh
199 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:06:39
Well, those of you who embrace Thursday night football in the Europa League – this is the outcome a shattered squad running on empty – but that is only part of the problem. Why are we living in the past employing a Dutch coach? Dutch football is on its arse and the Dutch coaches are now dinosaurs. Lukaku's goals saved Koeman last season also saved us from going down if we are realistic.

The whole club is still a shambles if we are honest. WTF gives with the transfer policy? Let the best striker in the Premier League go to our rivals, push it through quick as anything without any haggling and replace with fresh air. Look how Liverpool dealt with Barcelona!! We didn't need to let Lukaku go so easily did we? We should of kept him untill January or untill we replaced him.

We still allow the Moyes mentality to thrive at the club regardless of personal. I said it last season Koeman is a fraud and we will do nothing with him in charge. Just look at Davy Klaassen – an absolute joke signing but speaks volumes about our manager.

We lack pace, guile, physicality and have old players in all the wrong areas of the pitch. It's embarrassing to see how pathetic we are during games. Last season's away form should've been a red light to us all but all we have done is allow our only goal threat to leave... I can't see how it improves with Big Ron at the helm.

It's that bad, I would take Sam Allardyce tomorrow just to save us from disaster. Go and get Benteke from Palace as well. Poor man's Lukaku but at least he would offer an outlet and get a few goals... Season's over and it's still August?

Dennis Ng
200 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:07:34
Andy, last season over 2 game 0-8. Unless we lose the home leg by 6 goals, it's improvement LOL. Olay, not winding anyone up here. It's a horrible performance and blame everywhere except Calvert-Lewin. Calvert-Lewin needs to start and play every 90 mins.
Gordon Crawford
201 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:13:23
Colin (#166), I totally agree with you. Koeman wasn't my first choice, but that's okay. I am willing to give him a chance, it's up to him to make me a believer.

Already this season, the manager has made some strange decisions and we are only a few games in. I'm not sure he knows how he wants us to play.

Paul Birmingham
202 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:14:32
Let's take stock, we ain't blinkered and the truths about our lack of style, belief and positiveness aside from the usual cameo, is there for all to see today.

No disgrace in defeat but not positively trying for 70 mins, won't win us anything, and is jot good enough.

Keep a hope for some nice surprises in the final days of the transfer window, and the players bounce back for Spurs.

Paul Tran
203 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:20:21
George & Brian

I'm deadly serious. I've got bets that neither manager will win the league at their current clubs. At their best, both serve up very entertaining football that I enjoy watching, but they both break players that wilt towards the end of the season.

Conte's teams have gears, they know when to slow it up and hunker down for a one-nil. They know when to go for it and batter teams. He has strong, fast, exciting players, but the way they play uses their energy better and keeps them fresher through the season.

Doesn't mean I like them more, I just think that style of play can be good to watch, while being more conducive to a 38-game season. For me, that's a better yardstick.

Paul Kelly
204 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:22:19
You're going to read something that I doubt you'd ever 'hear' from my fingers: the best togger we've played in recent years was TGT's last season, the first three months or so. I reckon he was in the shop window at the time for the Man Utd job, so he could prove he could cut it.

The link-up play, passing, movement, lots of little triangles all over the pitch, was sublime; only thing was, we couldn't put the ball in the net. Remember us having something along the lines of 26 shots away game, can't remember who, but that wasn't the only one. Did we batter Fulham only for them to score with the last kick?

Point being TGT reverted to type, maybe Ferguson had some input (conspiracy theory there) I don't know, but it showed if he had allowed himself to..... fuck him treacherous ginger twat.

You see my point.

Charlie Lloyd
205 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:28:14
Games last 90 minutes not 10 mins which is what we turned up for today.

Okay, so the fixtures weren't in our favour over the last 6 days and we had a few injured suspended or not 100%.

However, it was lacklustre. And that's being fair. The back 5 barely reached the half way line and the 3 midfielders didn't fair much better. There was no outlet till Calvert-Lewin came on.

Colin Malone
206 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:29:28
Make no mistake, Moshiri is no mug and he ain't going to put up with a performance like that today. Let's look at Koeman's targeted players and the players who have come in.

Kone from Sunderland, we escaped that piece of shite.
Sissoko from Newcastle, escaped, just.

Players who have come to the club: Klaassen and Sandro, I'm not impressed. Rooney should have been up top with Sigurdsson behind, dictating midfield, instead of being on the left.

Moshiri, get Ross Barkley signed up.

Oliver Molloy
207 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:37:43
Tony @ 190.

I don't think Lukaku would have made a difference to us today, and it is exactly this type of team performance that made his mind up he wanted away.

Given the money paying paid for proven players and at just 24 years old I'm disappointed we didn't get more money for our former striker.

£75 million with possible add on's of #163;15 million is looking a bargain!

What will we pay for a proven striker, I wonder?

Christy Ring
208 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:40:37
Keane and Pickford are two top signings, and Rooney will give 100%, but in my opinion, Koeman has spent £70m+ on Klaassen and Sigurdsson, 2 players who can replace Wayne, not play with him.

We have no width, no pace, and Mahrez is someone we were crying out for. We still need a striker, left-sided centre-back, and left-back. At least he can't single out Barkley for today.

Rob Dolby
209 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:40:51
Get used to poor performances after European away games, it's a fact. The squad isn't big enough to cope. Even Man Utd struggled in the Premier League last season playing in this competition.

We have paid £45m for Sigurdsson, play him down the middle as a No 10 – playing him as a left mid is a total waste.

We also need a striker and some quality out wide. Anyone expecting a win was a fool – this highlights the dropping of 2 points against Man City last week.

David Barks
210 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:43:57
Rob,

That excuse just isn't going to cut it, sorry. Liverpool have played home and away in Europe and are off to a flier, all while having their best player sitting and possibly leaving. They crushed Arsenal 4-0 today. These players are flying charter jets, not sitting coach.

Ashley Roberts
211 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:47:03
I have to say that there was nothing in this awful performance that gives me any hope for the season. The big problem is Koeman sets the team up defensively not to lose but has no clue going forward.

I feel for Tom today because he was just overrun in midfield. He needed help, he didn't need to be replaced by Besic. It was clear after the first 10 minutes the team had been set up wrong as Chelsea were just cutting through us like butter with pace. Something we are totally lacking which is going to be a huge limitation for this team. He should've reverted to a back 4 and provided some help for Tom.

I have said this before but I just do not know where Sigurdsson is going to play or fit into this team. He is not a winger or a wide player. He needs to play behind the striker but we have Rooney playing in that position as well as Ross. Maybe he will rotate them but that seems a big waste of £45M. I am not saying he is a bad player it is just he needs to be played in his regular position.

After 10 minutes I would have taken Williams off and brought Lennon or Besic on and pushed Sigurdsson up front to help Sandro as he was totally anonymous.

I am also worried that Koeman is pissing off so many of the players with his style of management and tactics. Looks like Mirallas will now follow Ross out of the door. Maybe he will replace Mirallas with some more quality like Klaassen!!!

Colin Glassar
212 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:47:14
Kim #183, you'd have to be a brave soul to come on here tonight and try and defend that.

I always try and find some positives in every game but I'm scratching my head, and eyes, to find anything to hold onto right now.

My only hope is that they were genuinely tired and couldn't get out of 1st gear but we are still only in August. God help when we are deep into December if that's the case when games come thick and thin.

It seems to me that the players were sent out to try and keep the score down, nothing more. Thankfully, Chelsea didn't feel the need to completely humiliate us otherwise it could've been even more damaging.

The buck stops with the manager imo. These are young, fit, highly paid professionals so there's no excuse for producing such a feeble, spineless performance.

Only Pickford, Holgate, Besic, Rooney and Calvert-Lewin came out of that shambles with any credit.

Alan Burnham
213 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:55:08
Colin Glassar – please explain to me what was this credit that Holgate came out of the game with?
Ciarán McGlone
214 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:55:45
Repeating the same managerial mistakes over and over... Tactics, formations, substitutions. No-one expects immediate transformation, but the minimum I expect is that the manager learns from his mistakes.

I simply don't see him adapting of learning. Time is running out.

Ray Roche
215 Posted 27/08/2017 at 20:57:16
I'm not trying to excuse yet another truly dire performance, nor am I excluding Koeman from criticism but it is worth remembering that Man City, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and to an extent, Spurs, have had over a decade of mega investment. They have taken that long to get (and stay) where they are. We are just getting used to splashing the cash, so let's keep a bit of perspective.

Away to the Champions:- who honestly thought that we were going to trounce them? Or even turn up? Away to City. Within ten minutes of a win. I'd have taken that at 5 to 8 on Monday, wouldn't you?

Okay, we were truly dreadful today and the players should reimburse the hardy souls who made the trip but let's see where we are at Christmas before we lynch Koeman. And believe me, I am NOT happy with what I've witnessed this season so far.

Nicholas Ryan
216 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:00:00
Top 4? Top 6? . I'll be happy with Top 17!!
Colin Glassar
217 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:02:07
Holgate is a very young centre back who has been forced to play as a wing back/right back Alan. I think he's held his own extremely well against very talented Man City and Chelsea players.
Paul A Smith
218 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:11:05
Oliver Malloy #210. Spot on mate. We said £100 mill and got a guaranteed £75 mill.

"But he wanted to go" ... So what? So does Coutinho and, through the evil across the park playing on Barcelona's desperation, they will get over a £100 million for him. And we couldn't wait a bit to play Man Utd and Chelsea off against each other?

Fuck me, if Liverpool get £60 million, we have been ripped off. Their most subbed player going for £100 million plus. Words fail me. They are blessed.

Paul A Smith
219 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:18:07
I am stating the obvious saying we need a striker. Who is going to threaten when he needs a rest or has to miss a game for any reason?

These "productivity" players need to get a grip because, since the last ten games of last season, we do not threaten the goal at all. Cech could have read a book today.

Christy Ring
220 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:24:39
Colin, Holgate should be playing centre back, ahead of Williams.
Colin Glassar
221 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:30:29
He could've, Paul, Anfield was dead today. Apart from the four goals they put past him.

I agree Christy, he's better than that troglodyte, Williams.

Bill Gall
222 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:41:20
Strange the only comment I have read that said we were not too bad came from the manager, mind you he has to cover his selection and tactics as this is his team, and he can't use the excuses that they are the previous manager's players.

I still wonder what team is going to let their best player come to us, regardless of the fee, with only 4 days before the close of the window, leaving very little time to replace them.

John G Davies
223 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:57:48
The phrase "coward" has been used several times. Stupidity to use that against Koeman.

Okay, if you think he is a defensive manager that's fine. But to label him coward is out of all context.

Oliver Molloy
224 Posted 27/08/2017 at 21:59:22
Yep, you are correct, Paul. The club said £100 million or forget about it and we caved in.

For me, we caved in because Moshiri and Kenwright needed the money. A sell-before-we-buy club we most definetly are at the moment.

Paul A Smith
225 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:11:33
Colin, haha, I do apologise. Courtois.

Oliver (#224), I see why the club spent before Lukaku left to be fair. We would have been out-priced for everyone if we had sold him first and I don't or can't believe yet we won't spend before the deadline...

We needed players in before he left. Most probably came from that overdraft they struck.

Tony Hill
226 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:19:20
John (223), I don't just accuse Koeman of cowardice, I accuse the players also. We flinch at every serious challenge and set ourselves up, ineptly, to avoid defeat rather than to win away from home. Four away wins is a pathetic total under this, or any, manager.

Like all matters in sport, none of it bears comparison with major issues but I don't want to see my team afraid of opponents and giving up before they've started. I think that's a fair definition of cowardice in a sporting context, which is the only context available to us on this forum.

Ian Riley
227 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:26:29
Today we played the champions on their patch after a hectic week. The club have brought in more players at once since I have been supporting Everton. Koeman needs time and two players at least.

Let's not put today down to selling Lukaku. His goal ratio against the top four on their turf is poor at best. He wanted to go and £75 million up front is good business.

Koeman must stress to the board a striker must be brought in. We certainly have the midfielders to supply them.

Put today behind us and move on!!

John G Davies
228 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:27:59
Tony, it's the wrong choice of word. There is no sporting context connotation of the word.

Accuse them of not gaming a go, not prepared to put a foot in by all means.

A big accusation to call any man a coward.

John Pierce
229 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:30:11
Three wretched performances in a week. Each a microcosm of the other, just like a set of evil Russian Dolls.

Each more inspid, and ghoulish than the next.

City was bad, but he (Koeman) did have a plan, using DCL and a press. The sending off throwing him for a Burton.

Spilt was City's orfaned brother, ordinary laboured and stilted against yet more European farmers. Only the most astonishing un-Everton thing salvaged a lame effort.

The nastiest, most unforgivable attempt was left for today. Going back to the scene of Koeman's biggest crime last season, he repeated the trick with the added bonus of all but a completely new team but the same spirit of dis-adventure.

Two more games against the division's finest and a Europa League game in an 8-day stretch. The manager offers me nothing the results will be any different, that is damning and very sad.

Eddie Dunn
230 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:32:51
Koeman talked about productivity pre-season. The impotence of this performance proves that he has failed in this aspect. I know one or two were missing but we only looked a little better with Calvert-Lewin late on.

A striker of some repute is essential.

Mike Connolly
231 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:38:40
We were shite last Christmas and shite now. Oh and end of last season. everyone was saying we have are flip flops on. So what have we on now, our diving boots.

As you can tell I'm pissed off. My opinion of the manager has not changed. Ron must go. Who will replace him... Haven't a clue.

We all could see three at the back against the mighty Stoke did not work, considering we have two speed merchants, Jags and Williams.

Colin Glassar
232 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:38:44
How many of our lot are going away on international duty? I hope the ones that stay are drilled in the basics until they are bored to death.
Jay Griffiths
233 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:41:02
I left the ground on 74 mins!

I despair of these dinosaurs we're fielding at the back. It's a sad indictment that, of the back six today,Pickford is the best distributor with his feet. And these lads play football every single day for a living. Appalling.

Don't know how many times we saw Rooney (who looked like he cared) remonstrating with the ref for a supposed injustice whilst Jags as captain does the cube root of fuck all. Captain! Really? Nice guys don't make good captains these days.

I really don't know what our formula, style or identity as a team is. Worried and concerned.

David Pearl
234 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:45:10
We play 3 centre backs but they don't have the confidence to split apart and stretch the opposition so we have space ourselves to move forward. Maybe when Seamus is back Holgate might get a chance in the 3... where he looks a lot more comfortable.

We don't move as a team. Soon as we try to, we lose possession. There's no movement up front. I'm guessing with Lukaku gone Mirallas might've thought he'd be given a chance up front...

Rick Pattinson
235 Posted 27/08/2017 at 22:57:25
I'm actually worried about this season. It reminds me of the summer Walter Smith bought a load of shite Dacourt. Collins. Materazzi Etc etc. They never clicked. We struggled

We now look a little clueless... there is no one controlling games... It's poor... Our tactics are very Moyes like. I'm scared what's happened!!!

John Raftery
236 Posted 27/08/2017 at 23:24:42
I wish we had a lazy great lummox up front. Preferably one capable of scoring 25 league goals in a season.

I have not been as impressed by Keane in the last few games as I hoped I would be. On one occasion in the second half Fabregas waltzed around him as though he was a statue. Hopefully he will settle down as he becomes familiar with his new team mates.

That will not be made easier if Koeman persists in deploying players in roles to which they are unsuited. Holgate is first and foremost a defender better suited to playing as a third centre back than as a wing back. In the absence of Seamus, Martina with his ability to cross a ball, is better suited to the wing back role.

Oliver Molloy
237 Posted 27/08/2017 at 23:28:59
Paul, I do not agree. We had £100 million from last season that was not spent and the same amount this season, which of course is £200 million, most of football would have known this.

Paul Mackie
238 Posted 27/08/2017 at 23:35:00
When we were rumoured to be after Koeman, I described him on here as Moyes 2.0 and was mocked. I've not seen anything yet to convince me I'm wrong about that. Dour, safety first, unimaginative football.
James Watts
239 Posted 27/08/2017 at 23:55:55
After sitting through the full match, it's safe to say it can be summed up in two words. Depressingly predictable.

Everything from the defensive mindset, backs-to-the-wall tactics, no fight, no passion (except a little from Rooney) and of course no shots on target. Koeman deserves a lot of stick for what went on today and can't defend anything he did after that gutless showing.

He doesn't seem to be learning either. If we concede first, it's game over and easy street for the opposition. Chelsea didn't even break into a sweat, especially the second half.

The last two games have also showed us just how far behind the top teams we are, and 7th is best we can hope for. Again.

I'm a patient man, looks like it's going to pushed to the limit this season.

Kevin Tully
240 Posted 28/08/2017 at 00:05:32
Q. Would newly promoted Huddersfield be any worse, or in fact, shithouseville?
Paul Birmingham
241 Posted 28/08/2017 at 00:19:49
Close of play and like not since Branch's best ever effort back in 1994, and I was there, we are back in the queue of reality.

My concern is the basics of team control, organisation, stewardardship, captainship, management and the Nev, Ratters, Reidy, Brace, Sharp, Watson, and Sheidy stewardship – leadership on the park, today, is nowhere to be seen.

No surprise today but the basics are lacking in terms of game management.

Hope eternal as in life, but this season is gonna be very tough.


Gordon Crawford
242 Posted 28/08/2017 at 01:23:11
The Merseyside derby is going to be a hoot. :(

Seriously though, it's three games in, but the holes in Ronald's tactics are huge.

Andy Codling
243 Posted 28/08/2017 at 01:58:52
Has there been any stat released of how many times we played the ball back to the keeper?

For a long time now, all I see is Baines picking the ball up at the halfway line and stopping and turning to play it back, time after time.

Even on the edge of the opposition's box, we end up playing it back to the half-way line. No ideas at all, and movement off the ball is ridiculous.

Koeman's tactics are dire!

David Barks
244 Posted 28/08/2017 at 02:05:33
Exactly what good would a world class striker make in the way Koeman has us play?

There is only room for 11 on the pitch, the keeper takes one of those, so 10. Koeman then wants to use 3 center backs. So down to 7 left. He then plays with 2 more defenders as full backs (and I will not call them wingbacks because they do nothing going forward). So down to 5 spots left.

He then will always play with Gana and Schneiderlin if healthy and available as holding midfielders. So down to 3 spots left. So far, no players offering any distribution in attack. So who takes up those last 3 spots? Rooney is going to play. Gilfy I would imagine. And for now Sandro. So replace Sandro with Costa and we still aren't offering any support in attack, still set up ultra defensive with our forward outnumbered and far too many players who are primarily out there to defend and break up play.

Conte plays 3 at the back as opposed to our 5, and he uses actual wingers as his wing backs/ full backs. He converted Moses from a forward to winger, primarily there to attack. Same with Alonso, he's there to get forward and attack. He lets his 3 defenders worry about defense, knowing most teams only use one striker. That allows one defender to get forward in attack when they want, still having 2 back to worry about the opposition. And Kante is in the middle of the park stopping the opposition from hitting them on the break.

Koeman sets out with mostly defenders. Conte sets out with mostly attackers. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to see the difference and predict the result 99/100 times.

Phil Smith
245 Posted 28/08/2017 at 02:07:35
Let's call that what it was: a tired, negative performance that we never believed (from the manager down) we were gonna win. A week ago, everyone was purring how well we were linking in midfield but lose 1 or 2 players and we've got holes in the side.

Davies isn't the same player as last season and I'd drop him back to the U23s and bring in someone else (Walsh?).

Sandro isn't ready – impact sub only for now.

Rooney can't play every minute – he looks knackered.

We need pace in our team and fast. 😉

Will Mabon
246 Posted 28/08/2017 at 03:19:10
When things were sour under Moyes, it was Moyes's fault. When things turned poor under Martinez, it was Martinez's fault. More than once and not just in this thread, people have even questioned whether the players are at fault for not understanding the manager's instructions. This now, when most of the players are his choice of player. Now that's making allowance.

Wrong players in the wrong positions, wrong team shape, players visibly reluctant to move/run forward. Players looking edgy and unsure – players that we have seen perform better. Football basics deserting players. Previous attacking players marginalized. Tom Davies worryingly, appears to be going backwards.

Perhaps worst of all, no team spirit, no belief, no power, no presence... just no feel of Everton.

It's the manager.

Pete Clarke
247 Posted 28/08/2017 at 04:00:25
What is this obsession with defensive midfielders that don't even defend very well? We need two football players right in the middle and two out wide who can run at pace with skill.

Koeman is a poor tactician. He cannot help the players he has to become better so he will keep calling for more money to resolve his inadequate coaching methods.

Sick of this hoof ball and poor passing ability from pros; if the training, tactics and awareness in games can't be improved, then people have to be moved on.

James Watts
248 Posted 28/08/2017 at 04:13:46
Have to agree with you, Will.

There were some mitigating circumstances such as 3 tough games in a week and missing key personnel, oh and Chelsea being an absolutely quality team.

But I've defended Koeman up to yesterday as I could understand some of things he's done, even though they were wrong in hindsight. But this game? Everything about it was daft. And he doesn't seem to be learning from his mistakes. We rightfully vilified that Spanish twat for doing the same stupid things; Koeman is going the same way. Too stubborn and limited in his approach. Safety first and hopefully pinch a goal. It's so predictable.

If it carries on like this, lots of fans are going to turn. I predicted we'd be in the bottom 5 after Man Utd before the season kicked off and the pressure will be firmly on Koeman as a result. Doesn't look like it's going to be far off.

Jay Harris
249 Posted 28/08/2017 at 04:24:50
David, That is a very good point and one I totally agree with.

Baines and Holgate are afraid to push up as they have their defensive duties to consider and there is no-one in front or behind to drop in and cover,

Our defensive midfielders are just that and, with the exception of Gueye, do not venture over the halfway line.

It is an absolute disgrace that an Everton side does not register one shot on target over 90 minutes.

We seem to think its okay if we play keep ball between the centre-backs and the goalkeeper.

Also very concerned that Keane seems to have gone off the boil and Pickford's distribution has gone awry. I just hope there is no unrest in the dressing room again.

Will Mabon
250 Posted 28/08/2017 at 04:27:07
Can't deny we're in a demanding phase of the season, James, so the tiredness, absentees and quality opposition are factors – but not factors enough.

Perhaps we could be as low as bottom five after this phase as you say. That in itself might not be the end of the world, if there was anything to suggest improvement, any growth, development. That yesterday was simply not good enough – total surrender.

Nitesh Kanchan
251 Posted 28/08/2017 at 05:54:07
Spot the difference between the two sportsmole commentaries between today's and last season game. The last ten minutes. I don't believe Chelsea took their foot of the pedal. Champions teams don't do that at just 2-0 lead.

I am not very disappointed as I expected this outcome very much but this is where Koeman is to be judged – right after the Europa League game – to see how they perform. Now how he reacts in the next 2 games will say it all.

I am optimistic as I saw positives in that loss. Sigurdsson's pin-point crosses which were terribly missing last season from our games which never cleared the first man. Holgate's movement up and down the field.

The last 10 mins a complete contrast to first 80 mins and we saw what this team can do if they have a real go at other teams, even the likes of Williams and Gueye can have a go at the goal. Besic needs to play more, he can only improve the side with his aggression, so what if he is risky and might get a red, won't handicap us more than when we are defending with ten men.

Looking at Arsenal, it is top 5 sides this season rather than 6.So the least possible position we can achieve is 6th and Spurs are not that convincing at Wembley. We should beat them next game to stay in top 4 contention.

I am not a fan of Koeman and never will be after his disaster at Valencia but I feel we've got the players who can do the job and get us into top 5 or 4.


Collin Govender
252 Posted 28/08/2017 at 06:51:12
It is so sad to watch Everton; the players don't have the confidence or belief. it seems going sideways and backwards is causing the problem as we had good position but never crossed the ball. The keeper has more touches than the out field players.

If we are to compete, let's go forward with purpose; we need creative runners from midfield and not to lose position. Better performance required – one that is brave and when we lose we know it was our best – not just going onto the field to occupy but to play with all our hearts... sad.

Colin Glassar
253 Posted 28/08/2017 at 07:43:28
Koeman and Walsh better have a few players up their sleeves before Thursday. I have my doubts as there seems to be no credible rumours linking us to anyone.
Gerry Ring
254 Posted 27/08/2017 at 08:10:06
Christy (#208), you're completely correct. Looks to me like Koeman lost the run of himself with the cheque book & bought players he didn't need. Still haven't replaced Lukaku who's gone but is trying to "replace" Barkley & McCarthy who are still on the books (with players not as good).

Some great signings but I can see a clear-out of a lot of the new dross happening soon. As for Besic, for me he wouldn't lace McCarthy's boots.

Antony Matthews
255 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:11:42
Did Burnley play like a Rabbit in headlights against Chelsea? No! So why do we?
Christopher Marston
256 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:12:41
I'm worried as well, Colin – I think he thought Giroud was certain to join and now his plans are all over the place. We will end up with Cameron Jerome. Even Jim White has gone quiet!!! Worrying! If no striker is bought to replace Rom, then we will struggle this season.
James Watts
257 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:19:08
Colin, don't worry. I'm sure a Troy Deeney rumour is just around the corner.

I suspect the way Walsh was talking at the Europa League draw and the public statements from Koeman we have a couple lined up madeuprumourville.com haven't heard about. Whether we'll be happy with them and they won't be last minute pathetic loan signings is another matter.

That's also based on the fact that to go through the season with what we have would be madness and will probably ensure Koeman getting sacked by Christmas.

Darren Hind
258 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:22:20
Funny old game.

When Man City only managed to score with one of the many chances they created, it was called a "defensive masterclass" on here – cringe worthy... but when Chelsea convert two of the many chances they created... it's shite?

Fact is – despite his insistence on permanently having ten men behind the ball, the better teams can still go through us like a fat kid through candy floss.

John G Davies
259 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:35:03
Yet another quoting me. I did call it a "defensive masterclass" as, in my opinion, that's what it was; yesterday was a defensive shambles. Hardly cringeworthy.

I tell you what does merit the term though. Anyone who repeatedly uses the derogatory term "coward" on the Internet to describe a football manager. But refrains from calling him a coward when meeting him in person.

Darren Hind
260 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:47:28
You said it too?

Still cringe-worthy, you may not have noticed but Man City missed chance after chance. That it was only one was more down to their poor finishing than any great defending.

Ian Jones
261 Posted 28/08/2017 at 08:51:45
Annoys me that teams like Burnley turn up at the likes of Chelsea and occasionally come away with all 3 points, whereas Everton regularly display a lack of everything...

As for yesterday's game, having been turned over in front of their home fans on opening day, possibly thinking it was an 'easy' game, Chelsea were not in the mood for 2 successive defeats.

Alan Smith
262 Posted 28/08/2017 at 09:06:30
Trying to keep three centre backs happy is the problem. Especially when the two who can't pass, also can't dominate in the air. Keane is as heavy on his feet as Gary Cahill and turns like Robert Huth. He might be good blocking, heading and defending deep but he is terrible if someone runs at him. I can't see us pushing out against the good side with him in the team.

Throw in the fact Koeman decides to play two defensive midfielders who are no better than Lee Carsley or McCarthy and it's no wonder we can't keep the ball or move it through midfield quickly.

Barkley must play central midfield, with Rooney or Klaassen at No 10 and only one defensive midfielder, a world class, big strong ball-playing centre-back has to be bought to play with Jagielka.

And we obviously need a striker and a winger (unless he's waiting for Bolasie to get fit).

Darren Hind
264 Posted 28/08/2017 at 09:12:03
It's rather endearing the way people guess at what they hope had happened – especially when they were not there and quite simply don't have a scooby.
Ciarán McGlone
266 Posted 28/08/2017 at 09:24:23
It would be easier to admit Darren might be right, rather than continuing to have a pop.
Paul Tran
267 Posted 28/08/2017 at 09:27:24
I noticed some differences, Darren. More zip, more energy, we had a focal point up front that brought others into play.

Yesterday, the defenders were more static, as if Chelsea's varied pace fooled them more. Or perhaps they were just knackered.

Like I said earlier in this thread, Koeman's like Martinez, talks about one kind of football, then has his team play a different way on the pitch.

In general working life, is there anything worse than a manager who can't explain what they want?

I hope it gels together soon, for all our sakes.

Victor Yu
269 Posted 28/08/2017 at 09:35:20
I understand Koeman has a flaw or two in his tactics etc.

But remember a lot of us were hoping to get De Boer in as the new manager last year? Look at his record with Inter and now Palace!

Koeman may not be a top manager but it is a step forward for sure.

Phil Walling
270 Posted 28/08/2017 at 10:19:28
Will at 246 says it perfectly. The manager has 'no feel of Everton' and, I suggest, 'no feel for Everton'. He gives the impression of a stranger who finds himself in a grossly overpaid job, who talks of 'the project' but has little idea of what 'the project' requires or how to go about addressing it.

'Getting bodies in' is the only vision and accommodating those bodies is a purely academic exercise. Just like his immediate predecessor, he says one thing and does another although his version of the game lacks even the 'beautiful dreams' of the Catalan.

Another Moyes? Not within a mile of him!

Martin Mason
271 Posted 28/08/2017 at 10:20:11
Ciaran

A broken clock is right twice a day.

Ed Fitzgerald
272 Posted 28/08/2017 at 10:23:57
Amazing, as predicted, those who were gushing over Koeman as a manager before we kicked a ball in pre-season are now slowly turning against him.

The few so-called miserable cynics who were airing concerns about his tactics and team selection appear to be vindicated after a few games into the season when we have been both dour and shite, just as we were for much of last season.

We sold Rom and Gerri (I know he is shite but he is playing all for Barca?) and Barkely is next; perhaps we will sign another all energy midfielder who can't go forward. Reality is we got murdered yesterday and got away with murder last Monday evening, Man City deserved to beat us with 10 men.

Our lack of ambition is appalling. Anyone who thinks we are any better off with Koeman than Martinez is delusional IMO particularly given the money Koeman has had.

Tony Everan
273 Posted 28/08/2017 at 10:44:51
I am flabbergasted by the cancerous negativity that is incubating. Stop It!

The away games at Man City and Chelsea are the hardest games of the season ,against the richest clubs in the league. They are the favs for winning the league itself and among the top 6 for winning the Champions League. We had to play them on their own patch 6 days after each other with a team that is bedding in. Our biggest signing has had no pre-season.

On top of this we had a tough match in Croatia sandwiched in between. Give the manager and team a break. Give them some time to gel. The younger lads will need longer still.

Justified criticism lies with the boards failure to procure a top senior striker to replace Lukaku. Failure to get the right man will see us struggle and the board will be heavily blamed. Even this can still be rectified and if the new signing is good enough I would say we can be stronger than last season, top 6 win a trophy material.

It is far too early to be chronically morbid . We need to keep our blue peckers well and truly upright.

Sit back and see what the Board and Steve Walsh come up with. Our success this season depends on it.

Ray Robinson
274 Posted 28/08/2017 at 11:07:30
Tony (#273), you'll get nowhere on here with a reason like that! The pessimism, which in due course could turn out to be self-fulfilling, is even more depressing than any team performance and is one of the reasons that I think I'll give ToffeeWeb a wide berth for a while, apart from the odd ticket request.
Andrew Wayne
275 Posted 28/08/2017 at 11:10:25
As well as not having a recognised striker or pace to speak of to stretch the game, we have Jags and Williams with absolutely no turn of speed or the ability to bring the ball out of defence and give it to the midfield. Two immobile centre backs anchor the team to our 18-yard box and then when they get the ball it gets hoofed up to a non-existent strike force; so it comes straight back.

Calvert-Lewin won every header yesterday but he was always on his tod. Lukaku was hopeless at the big 4/6 so it isn't just about replacing him. We need an injection of pace and the ability to get the ball past the halfway line without giving it away.

Daniel Lim
276 Posted 28/08/2017 at 11:25:03
#273 and #274,

Nice try. And Koeman still fucked up big time last night.

Martin Mason
277 Posted 28/08/2017 at 11:33:00
Well said, Tony. There is a myth among the most negative of our fans that the rest somehow accept mediocrity. This is absolute nonsense; we recognise current poor performances and look at the causes, effects and possible solutions. We then decide that in the circumstances it is a far more sensible option to give the club time to turn it around rather than calling for heads to roll so early.

Some may think that the club can't see the problems or even more strangely that they know better but they are wrong on both counts. Us Happy Clappers will have our say when the club, given time, has failed to deliver sustainable improvement even with strong financial backing. As we are in a massive majority among fans, our say will have far more influence than the current voices in the wilderness.

My opinion at the moment is that Koeman is doing very badly and longer term will prove to have been a poor choice. I believe that, in the main, our buys have been bad and made with the result of developing a side with no heart or soul. Am I going to adopt irrational negativity over this? No, I'm going to give my support to the club until such a time as the current phase of the project has been shown to have failed. It's unlikely that this will be before the end of this season with a progress report possible in the New Year.

Joe Bibb
278 Posted 28/08/2017 at 11:40:04
'The Dutch Moyes' – that's what we have. A manager that tries to avoid defeat by changing his team to combat the opposition.

He moans about 3 games in six days. If Everton want to be in the 'Elite' then that's what we have to do. Moaning about not having a big enough squad is laughable when it comes from the mouth of the only man on the planet that can expand our squad.

While he was bleating on TV, another club from across the park, who had also played 3 games in a week, were destroying Arsenal with an attacking team.

Koeman is not the man to take us forward, we have money to spend and he can't make his mind up as to who to sign.

Young players get dropped after great performances (Moyes-style). if Koeman is finding it too hard to deal with all this he can walk away with a few million stuffed in his back pocket.

Paul Wyndham
279 Posted 28/08/2017 at 12:06:51
Big Ron, world class defender, recognised across the football world, football man through and through, yet fails to see that we are in dire need of two quality full-backs and a centre-back partner for Keane.

He continues to pack the midfield with crab-like one-dimensional defensive midfielders when we are crying out for a dynamic attacking engine room. He pushes players who need to play up top out into isolation in wide areas when we're crying out for pace on the wing. And he lets virtually our only source of goals leave without having an adequate replacement lined up.

Of course, none of this is the manager's fault... the fact we can't retain possession of the ball, put three passes together or create any goal scoring opportunities has nothing to do with the manager's formations, tactics or coaching!

I'll have to stop these knee-jerk reactions, they've been happening since we wasted almost £30m on Bolasie. Let's give Big Ron more time and more money – he's sure to come good.

Kim Vivian
280 Posted 28/08/2017 at 12:24:15
I'm not one to cast judgement really, although almost half-way into his contractual tenure the signs are not too good. We're always going to be safe enough but I cannot see this much-hyped metamorphosis happening just yet.

I put little credence on managerial ability as far as playing provenance goes, because speed of thought and anticipation are instinctive, and nigh on impossible to teach. So whilst Ron was undoubtedly a leading exponent of his particular art, that does not necessarily transfer into management. Indeed many, if not most, of the top managers around have not achieved playing greatness and conversely many of the top players have proved average at best when it comes to management.

One noticeable difference which has nothing to do with playing history that I have noticed and seems to be prevalent with our recent managers is (the lack of) touch-line "presence".

I know he's a total knob but Klopp, Conte, Jose, Guardiola, Pulis (another knob), even Wenger before he took to his carpet slippers, are all like having an extra man on the pitch. I wish we could see a bit more excitement and passion from Ron – or is it that he just doesn't feel that passion yet? Or is he incapable of it?

At least he's still talking about 'we' and 'us' rather than Everton in the third person, but when and if he leaves either at the end of his contract, later if things go well, or sooner if not then I would like to see some spark on the touchline from his successor.

I'm not joining the ranks of those condemning the man yet, but would like to have seen a bit more by now to improve my optimism. I remain on the fence so far as Sigurdsson goes – so much time and energy put into that piece of business – and as everyone agrees the (evident) lack of pursuit of a striker is worrying. I hope the pursuit of Sigurdsson did not distract us away from that.

Of the credible options available on the rumours pages it looks like Remy, Vardy, Llorente and Origi (loan to Everton? - no chance) seem to be all that may be available in the next few days. None of them light my dials up tbh so I hope to be pleasantly surprised and will be watching the transfers news closely over the next few days.

Shame Ever Banega is not available for a midfield berth (picked us apart re season) and up front? ... Come back, Rom, all is forgiven.

Paul Tran
281 Posted 28/08/2017 at 12:52:16
I'm actually glad that there's very little about us in the rumour mills. Because they're usually full of lazy nonsense. I've said all along that there are few decent strikers around, they will be weighing up their options and we will get one in at the end of the window.

I have no doubt we've been pursuing strikers for months. In the meantime, the 'shit' striker who was so easy to replace is top of the scoring charts.

Karl Masters
282 Posted 28/08/2017 at 13:47:37
DCL is clearly going to be firstly a key player for us, and secondly save us some money.

Colin Malone
283 Posted 28/08/2017 at 14:38:11
I have to cut a bit of slack on Ramirez. Playing hoof football ain't his game and one-two's with fresh is not either.
Barry Williams
285 Posted 28/08/2017 at 15:27:49
Okay, that wasn't a good display yesterday and I was disappointed too, I thought we could have been more adventurous and couldn't understand why Lewin/Lennon were not used earlier. In my uneducated opinion (football wise anyway) I do think Koeman got it wrong.

But I am trying to put things in perspective. Yes we are a team in transition, and yes we need to deal with a heavily congested fixture list if we are to compete on the level that the fans and management want. But, it is still August, we have 7 new first team players to bed in, some not match fit or up to the speed of the English game. The 2 players with injuries from our 7 signings were the ones who hadn't played in England before. Coincidence? Probably not. It is still August and we still have some of the transfer window left. We also don't know what U23s will surprise us this year. Let's face it, a year ago the likes of Holgate, Lewin and indeed Davies hadn't had hardly any first team experience.

The bigger picture, Koeman took over a woeful side, unfit and unmotivated. He turned an 11th place finish into a 7th place finish with the biggest turn around of points outside of the champions, the cup runs were poor to say the least, but there was definite tangible progress in his first season, plus a real willingness to play the youth. Many slagged him off for playing Lewin, but it seems to have worked out okay thus far. I will reserve judgement until the new year when the players have bedded in and things will have taken shape. The international break is timely and we should have Klassen back, plus a fitter Sandro and a more match-fit Sigurdsson. On top of that, Schneiderlin will be back too. As I mentioned in an earlier post on this thread, we cannot be playing Baines, Rooney, Jagielka and Williams 2 or 3 times a week, it is counterproductive. It will be interesting as to how things shape up in that department.

Overall, 7 games, 4 wins, 2 draws and 1 loss to the champions away, all in the space of a month, plus Euro league qualification. Looking at it like that, it doesn't paint such a bad picture. I want more free flowing football and attack-mindedness, hopefully when all gels , we may get that, but we may not . Only time will tell.

James Hughes
286 Posted 28/08/2017 at 15:43:18
Barry. I agree with parts of your post but the performance yesterday was woeful. I only got to see highlights but even that couldn't gloss over our pedestrian performance. It was like we were playing walking football but the Chavs weren't.

We played slow, narrow and without a clue. We can't blame the fixture congestion because we have been aware of this for quite a while. We should have had a squad capable of meeting that requirement.

I have bee a supporter of RK but he needs to start earning his cash and showing us something.

Nitesh Kanchan
287 Posted 28/08/2017 at 15:56:43
Paul, that was against relegation battling sides. Against Leicester he missed one penalty and blazed over an easy chance on his strong left foot. It is too early to judge him now.
Barry Williams
288 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:07:37
James Hughes - 286

I did see the whole game and you are 100% on the money. I wouldn't argue with what you have said. I am just trying to put a bit of perspective into things and look at the bigger picture so to speak. As said, I will reserve judgement on Koeman as a manager until the New Year.

Dave Pritchard
289 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:13:15
Yarmolenko going to Dortmund. That's one player for us not to be linked with over the next day or two.
Mike Allen
290 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:14:08
Don't get the Moyes threads. Moyes did better with the players available than Koeman is doing with what he has available. Moyes did his work in the most difficult of circumstances.

Koeman needs another striker needs to get the service and formation right before he starts throwing more money down the drain
Derek Wadeson
291 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:34:36
Looking at the big picture of this season. We need to continue our good home form and improve on our poor away record from last season. If we can move from four away victories to eight that would give us another twelve points and a top four to six position is possible.

Early season is telling us that Arsenal could struggle and Spurs also are not pulling up any trees at Wembley. Two home wins and two away draws to those two teams would mean they will have dropped five points to us.

Last Monday we drew at Man City and on Thursday by drawing we progressed in the Europa League to the group stages. I am sure this would of been paramount in Koeman's eyes and anything gained yesterday would have been a bonus. Travelling tiredness and the heat we played in in the last two matches looked to have taken their toll.

George Cumiskey
292 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:44:57
I can't think why anyone wants us to sign Giroud, he's got no pace at all. We are desperate for a Vardy type of player someone who can actually run through a defence, not another slow walking Joe.
We also need another centre half and left back and pacey winger,then maybe we will see a big improvement. But I doubt we will go for them with Koemans style of management, so I won't hold my breath.
Jack Cross
293 Posted 28/08/2017 at 16:52:44
Costa, untill January. Do me.
Joe O'Brien
294 Posted 28/08/2017 at 17:32:07
Hey enough of the slow walking Joe..
Paul Tran
295 Posted 28/08/2017 at 17:36:59
Nitesh, he scored for fun with us, he'll score for fun with them and I want him replaced by someone who'll score goals for fun - for us!
John G Davies
296 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:03:17
Apparently the full membership of TW does not enter into the spirit of banter.
Removing posts? 😂
John G Davies
297 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:05:34
Time to ring the Division Bell?
John Pierce
298 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:09:46
Derek, when you talk like that, assuming Koeman basically gave the Chelsea game away all the more reason to attack City when down to 10 men, 1st of three hard games, gifted an opportunity, fresh team. Yet...

He passed it up. Swerved it.

Stop making excuses when we have every right to expect more. Koeman's said it, Moshiri has provided the funds and vision, players are better, based on his salary so is the manager. 👀

Last week is just a taster of our unrelenting schedule between now and Xmas.

Look over the park, Hoffenhiem, Palace, Hoffenhiem, Arsenal in the same time period. 4wins, loads of goals.

Boss attack, crappy defence. Mmm.
Kill the game first mentality, then shut the shop up is what we need.

Honestly look at Koeman, and what he says. Do you see an attacking bone in the fellas body?

Christy Ring
299 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:20:29
Signing at least 3 players before deadline day on Thursday, is a must. A left sided centreback, a top striker and a left back are urgently required. Koeman should offer £10m for Kieran Gibbs, Watford have made an offer, he's 27, and their aren't too many left backs on the market.
Stan Schofield
300 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:30:02
John@297: Well, we have High Hopes.
Andy Walker
301 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:53:38
John 298 I don't think Palace and Arsenal at home are comparable to City and Chelsea away.
If the RS had played these 2 it would have been a different story for them.
David Barks
302 Posted 28/08/2017 at 18:56:28
Andy,

That's BS. The RS had a match midweek, and they crushed Arsenal. They will never set up to hope the other team doesn't beat them, as Koeman has done. They take the fight to the opposition, they impose their will on the opposition. Sometimes they'll get beat. But they don't just hope to get out without giving up a goal. If they were at City, with a 1-0 lead and up a man, not in a million years would City have dominated the second half, having all possession. Be real.

Darren Hind
303 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:13:27
Martin Mason.

Do you ever stop and think about what you are saying ? Just look at your posts over the past 24 hours

Martin Mason - "There is a myth amongst the most negative that the rest somehow accept mediocrity.

Martin Mason - "I see nothing but positives" - goes on to list them

Martin Mason - "You have no qualification to criticise a professional like Koeman"

Martin Mason - "My opinion is that Koeman is doing very badly and longer term will prove to be a poor choice"

Martin Mason - "Some think the club cant see problems or even more strangely, that they know better"

Marin Mason - "I believe in the main our buys have been bad and made with the result of developing a side with no heart or soul"

Then comes the classic - "Am I going to adopt an irrational negativity over this ?

You must be the worst exponent of the verbal hokey cokey I have ever come across. You have no idea you are contradicting yourself with virtually every sentence.

"We are in a massive majority amongst fans" . .Well you certainly are ! In you desperate attempts to take the high moral ground you're trying to represent all sides of the house.

Sorry I don't mind anyone nailing their colours, nor do I object to people sitting cautiously on the fence , but you my old china plate, have more faces than Arya Stark

John Pierce
304 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:14:20
Come on Andy!

The point is made in part by David, by striking a balance between defence and attack you manange the work load for your team. In both the games you cite, we progressively got more exhausted because we didn't have the ball. It is simple keep the ball use less energy.

Particualry pertinient in the City game, having the ball against ten men no matter how good they are is key to conserving your energy and depeleting theirs. We were criminal with the ball in all three games.

If you give the opposition the ball and sit back, three games in a row then which team looks more tired? We did. We looked like we had nothing left, yet Koeman and his tweeting Kluitenburg are famed for their importance of fitness.

Counter that with Liverpool, essentially a better balance between attack/defence in possession allows them to manage the workload better.

The lack of offensive posture has so many knock'ons to the team dynamic.

Nitesh Kanchan
305 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:19:23
Yes Paul,he scored for fun with us because there was no competition,he was the only striker we had and it was us who feared if he got injured.

He had nothing to worry even if he went missing in half the games for us.At Man Utd,he knows that Mourinho won't hesitate dropping him again like he did at Chelsea.

I agree with you that he will be scoring a lot as he will be getting services from every position unlike the hoofball service he got with us.But like I said I will reserve my judgement on him for future.Next up a cold rainy night in Stoke.

John G Davies
306 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:25:24
Stan 300,

Thats the spirit mate.

Poor form to start the Pink Floyd banter then get posts deleted by admin when folk come back with half decent posts in the same vein.

Paul Kossoff
307 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:30:51
I listened to the game on radio Merseyside and Ronnie Goodlass said that Sandro is all day long not a striker! His fellow commentator said that Sandro, in a strikers position, looks like a fish out of water.
Now with the increased prices in transfers, it looks like we sold Lukaku on the cheap. But what alarms me more is that a proven striker was not brought in before Lukaku was sold.
We have a £12 million striker in the under 23,s who Koeman won't play. Unless we get a goal scorer in before dead line day, it looks like a long hard season ahead.
Dermot Byrne
308 Posted 28/08/2017 at 19:39:06
Tut tut Martin. Hope you don't ever post like me according to mood, sense of fun or mischief or anything else with anything less than the intellectual integrity and consistence of a bloody doctorate.

Sometimes I go and talk Blues in pub for some light relief. Some have better perspective after 10 pints !

Next you'll begin a para ”My opinion at the moment "


Tony Everan
309 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:28:30
Dermot , I am shocked too by the highlighted inconsistencies. As a rule it is absolutely necessary, without exception, to be largely consistent 99%+..ish... In fact any inconsistencies in postings should be flagged up in red type no less. The ultimate punishment.

Or some aging hippies and lackadaisical miscreant blues may adopt the "Post what you think on any given day , Why the fuck should I give a flying shite" attitude.

Shame on the latter .

Dermot Byrne
310 Posted 28/08/2017 at 20:48:56
Oh my god Tony E 309. You've rumbled me!
Michael McCarthy
311 Posted 28/08/2017 at 23:04:01
Yes, a better keeper,do we have pace, do have an eye for goal, do we have guile, have we improved? In my opinion, no.
David Price
312 Posted 29/08/2017 at 07:49:59
My only criticism of Koeman is his ability to back himself into corners by making his opinion on players so public. I refer particularly to Oumar Niasse who, in my humble opinion, is currently a much better option than Sandro, who isn't fit.

Having watched him on the internet playing for the U23s, he has the pace and ability to drag players around. He can also finish as he proved in that game.

Ross Barkley will never play for the club again; it's clear Koeman doesn't fancy him.

And Kevin Mirallas... I'm lost for any logical explanation of why he's being treated like a dog! Can anyone explain as I cant!!!

Bill Griffiths
313 Posted 29/08/2017 at 16:48:22
Darren, your posts usually drive me up the wall but loved your Arya Stark comment.

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