Reconsidering

by   |   09/09/2017  104 Comments  [Jump to last]

This post is not a reaction to today's game – I was going to write it yesterday. I have grave concerns about our team. We have invested a huge amount in the Koeman project. He is vastly paid. It will take time... but I expect signs of improvement; there are none.

Our football is one-dimensional, we lack width, pace, guile, imagination and inspiration. Also, our coach seems utterly lacking in any type of man-management skills.

We had an opportunity to step forward; I absolutely believed we had appointed the right man. I have defended him, believed in him and argued that he should have more time. However, I expected more, perhaps a change in tactics, some belief, some confidence in our players. In my view, it has not happened. We have, it seems to me, a coach who is working on a CV and who doesn't want a thumping on it.

I hate humble pie but I think I am ready for a helping of it. I now believe we have made a dreadful mistake. I believe have wasted a lot of money and I am gutted.

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Stan Schofield
1 Posted 09/09/2017 at 21:51:03
Andy, like you, I've been patient and willing to give Koeman time. However, given his apparent lack of tactical nous, and his lack of ability in man-management, the evidence is not good, and it may indeed be time to put a stop to this. We don't want to be appointing and sacking managers every five minutes, but there are limits to patience.
Brent Stephens
2 Posted 09/09/2017 at 21:58:35
Fair post, Andy. I think Koeman will be given time and won't be going anywhere soon. But more tactical blunders like that and he's really going to feel the fire under his arse.

He might just be able to blend this lot into something worthwhile, and get in a decent No 9 in January; and he might be able and willing to learn from what seem to be obvious mistakes. But things are not looking good at all. Today was a total embarrassment. Oh for Lukaku's goals.

Fran Mitchell
3 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:00:38
The question marks are certainly valid. The loss of, and failure to replace, Lukaku seems to have rocked our team's confidence.

He was the one player that made us dream of playing with the big boys, of challenging... and, in losing him, we lost that. We are a long, long way from the top-5/6.

Koeman & Walsh have rebuilt the spine which needed replacing, but we got little or nothing for the wide positions and this makes us slow, predictable and one-dimensional.

A counter-attack team with no pace and no wingers? Serious mismanagement in recruitment.

We will improve, but question marks are clear.

Peter Anthony
4 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:00:50
Gutted at how easily Spurs swatted us with ease today. The first 20 mins though we were in the ascendancy, but then ran out of ideas and spurs ran riot. They are a top side, settled and well drilled. We are still brand new in comparison.

I am really gutted about today, but also think Spurs will spank most teams if they play like that against everyone else. I think we need to be patient, but it is hard to be when we seem to be going backwards based on today.

They battered us at the Lane a few months back but it was 3-2 due to Lukaku's goals and Ross Barkley was our best player. Will Sigurdsson be an improvement on Ross? I believe yes. Do we still need to replace Rom? Defo!

Peter Laing
5 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:03:18
We are close to being 18 months into Project Koeman and can anyone argue the case that we are making progress?

Last season served up some truly forgettable performances – Chelsea and Watford away. Man City at home was a demonstration as to what is possible but to be honest that looks to me like it was a flash in the pan.

Koeman should be given till Christmas; beyond that, we should be looking for a replacement if this horrible form continues.

David Barks
6 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:17:58
I didn't think it was possible to get worse than what we had to endure during much of last season, but I was wrong. We have been dreadful all pre-season, in all four Europa League matches, and completely impotent in the Premier League.

We have built such an insanely unbalanced squad I just don't know where it goes from here. We have no backup left back, completely reliant on a Baines to feature every minute of every match. Baines is old, he has been often injured for the past 5 years or so, and he is nowhere near the attacking player he once was. But we have nobody but him.

We have no striker. I still can't believe that I'm saying that in September, but we have no senior striker in the squad. Last season with Lukaku we were short up top and needed to add support for him. Instead we got rid of him and Valencia and Kone and have nobody up top. And no I do not count Sandro because he clearly is not a striker.

On second thought, I can't be bothered any more. But I don't believe the problem is only Koeman. I think to not extend the blame right up to Moshiri is missing the big picture. This guy came promising heavy investment into the squad and saying the days of selling our best players are gone. Well, we sold our best player and, if it wasn't for Barkley saying no to his transfer, we would have had no net spend this Summer. I believe we are in deep trouble.

Christine Foster
7 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:29:51
I don't think the guy will last to Christmas, there is no cohesion or structure to the squad he is playing.

If we keep him till Christmas we will be in serious trouble. It's less than a month into the season and every fan can see the current team is unbalanced and unable to defend or attack. It's a recipe for disaster and now we have Koeman saying Niasse is back in the squad, that Barkley would be assessed when fit, and "bad attitude" Mirallas was on the bench today.

After all Koeman's comments, he has painted himself into a humiliating position. He deserves nothing less than the door.

David Barks
8 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:39:30
And I want to scream each time somebody tries to defend this guy by saying something along the lines of Spurs and Chelsea being title favorites? What was the excuse against Split? We were awful at home but squeaked a goal. Then in the return match Pickford should have been sent off in the early minutes and conceded a penalty. The ref simply blew the call and we got by. Then we would have lost if not for some fluke Gilfy shot from the halfway line. Even after that we gave away a penalty the ref actually saw and Pickford made the save, but he shouldn't have even been on the pitch.

So this isn't about today's match. The pathetic loss to Spurs is simply another piece of evidence. We are horrific to watch. And to Christine's point, this guy seems to be clueless when it comes to man management. This has happened before, when he was run out of Valencia. This is his second year with a squad he's been allowed to assemble and it's the worst football I can remember watching since early Moyes days.

Paul Swan
9 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:51:10
I can't think of one thing Koeman has done in the time he has been at the club which has endeared him to me. Bullshit sound-bites made under the guise of blunt taking.

Piss-poor game management which has led in countless games to him having to change formation at half time or even before because he got it wrong. Baffling team selections with players out of position all over the park and above all the most miserable dull boring football I have seen at Goodison for decades.

Today I saw players arguing all over the pitch, Martina having a go at Keane for passing the ball to him when he was completely closed down, Schneiderlin throwing his arms about complaining at the players around him. Something is going very wrong within this squad and I don't see any signs of improvement.

I can't remember a game at Goodison when supporters were leaving 5 minutes into the second half.

Sam Hoare
10 Posted 09/09/2017 at 22:59:23
David @8 I don't think its helpful to say we would have lost x if y hadn't happened. That's like saying we would have won today if z had happened... Lord knows what z would have to be though!

The results have been okay to poor, the performances have been worse.

I'd not be unhappy if Koeman got sacked tomorrow but no way that's going to happen. Like you I don't see where the turnaround is coming from but I'll continue to hope it will come from somewhere.

A couple of draws in our next two matches and then some wins and things would be looking better. More of the same from today, however, and my last remaining grain of faith will quickly diminish.

Dennis Stevens
11 Posted 09/09/2017 at 23:16:54
Ron needs to get a grip, as all the other teams we are due to play will be rubbing their hands in glee, anticipating an easy three points based on our recent performances. And the worse it gets, the harder it'll be to turn 'round.
Jerome Shields
12 Posted 09/09/2017 at 00:06:53
I agree that employing Koeman was a dreadful mistake. I, like you, am gutted because I realise:

1. We have to get rid of him asap.

2.The damage he has done will take time to fix.

3. We will have to get rid of most of the players he has got in.

4. We will have try to keep players he has clearly managed badly.

5. Young players will need to be convinced there is a future at Everton.

6. We will have to employ a new manager; I'm not confident in the Board's ability to get a suitable manager.

7. It's going to be a five-year project, from the lowest point we have reached in living memory.

The current Everton side is not able to compete in the Premier League.

Ian Smitham
13 Posted 10/09/2017 at 00:11:22
Andy, simply can not fault your OP or the constructive responses, for me, the consistency of comments says it all. Just to be fair, and balanced, not the easiest start to a season.

Today I witnessed a poor showing. I wrote on the other thread in a bit more detail.

Cheers, Andy.

Peter Gorman
14 Posted 10/09/2017 at 00:23:43
Koeman was not fit to follow Pochettino at Southampton and today it showed.

I still have faith in Moshiri; if Koeman carries on like this, he should be sacked – not an over-reaction to any match but a realistic expectation for the money he has spent on players and receives each month in his bank.

I didn't think we could do worse than Martinez and frankly would have welcomed a ballboy to take his place but there is no need to stick with Koeman because of that. I am amazed how little he got the players to perform last season and he doesn't have the benefit of doubt now he has signed so many of his own.

"We have, it seems to me, a coach who is working on a CV and who doesn't want a thumping on it." I agree and it kinds of gives me my only hope; he plays so cagey because his job depends on it. Well, yeah, it should depend on it and on this evidence he is failing.

Watching with the hope of improvement... without holding my breath.

James Stewart
15 Posted 10/09/2017 at 00:44:02
I'd echo a lot of what David Barks said. I really wanted to believe in the Moshiri project after he hit so many of the right notes but, once the window slammed shut, it all began to look like PR spin. We simply spent the incoming money and no striker pitched up because Barkley and Niasse stayed.

The £3M loan offer for Jiminez tells you all you need to know about the calibre of our targets once we knew Barkley was staying. Same old Everton. I really thought we would pull a Werner out of the hat but no. Just another false dawn.

Our squad is an utter mess, and we have not played well for a long time. Today was supposed to be a reaction performance to the shambles that was Chelsea which makes it even more worrying.

Koeman hasn't bought into the fabric of the club like Pochettino has for Spurs, and he is paid twice as much. I think he will get til Christmas and a lot will depend on how well we do in the cups but I can't see it working out. Every week now, the starting lineup leaves me scratching my head.

I want a pragmatist, the new Pochettino if you will. Someone who will embrace the crop of youngsters we have and have faith in them. Not play the likes of the utter dross that is Martina before them. I think the man we need is already in the Premier League at another club though so we will have to suffer Koeman for the time being.

John Charles
16 Posted 10/09/2017 at 08:32:56
Ronald Koeman must go if for no other reason than he has even got some supporters saying "If we can just get some results against the lesser teams to stabilise the ship". And aim for a Magnificent 7th... how has he done this to us so quickly?

I said on here after we had won away at Leicester last season, he was a conman who would stagnate the team. That was after watching a dour win (made bearable by the win). I will reiterate: he is a conman who will drag us into a relegation fight and demoralising a club that might take years to fix.

Thomas Lennon
17 Posted 10/09/2017 at 08:34:49
If anyone is contending that Lukaku would have changed much in the last two games – you have short memories. Koeman's first Everton side took until December to show up last season, this one may well take just as long.
Tony Abrahams
18 Posted 10/09/2017 at 08:49:26
Very good post which must be the feelings of a lot of Evertonians right now, Andy.

You can't build a bridge without enough material, but you can still get people to the other side if you don't.

Koeman, and his complete lack of style, is now beginning to even lose its substance, and only a miracle could get the players, to play the way he perceives right now.

Colin Glassar
19 Posted 10/09/2017 at 08:58:51
I don't think Koeman wanted the job to begin with. He doesn't show any desire or enthusiasm and I think that's reflected in the way we play.

I'd give him until late October and if we continue in the same vein then give him the boot.

Dave Abrahams
20 Posted 10/09/2017 at 09:01:02
Koeman has to start poking at himself and his tactics; I didn't understand them or the structure of the team. He made substitutions but no changes to the shape of the team.

We were woeful. It was hard to watch the team beaten without Spurs moving out of first gear,. Things have got to change or the manager will be changed.

I have got to agree with Thomas Lennon (#17) regarding Lukaku, he wouldn't have changed anything in the last two games. When the going got tough, Lukaku went missing.

Dermot O'Brien
21 Posted 10/09/2017 at 10:06:12
Any one doubtful of Koeman's tactical nous just remember he once replaced McCarthy with Lukaku before half time to win a game that we were losing at West Brom. Genius.

Or so I for one thought at the time. But even a broken clock is right twice every day. Trouble is that no-one knows when it's right or what's happening the rest of the time. Just like big Ron.

Ralph Basnett
22 Posted 10/09/2017 at 15:17:12
I think one of our major issues once someone sees the light and gets shut of this conman is that we have sold our one prized asset (cheaply at that), and spunked a load of money on mediocrity.

We struggle against the good teams because they are better than us and we struggle against the shite teams because they are still better than us!!!!!!

Whoever is next, and I can't see any decent manager queuing up for the appointment, will have very little to work with.

Still, no Commonwealth Games but we still have the new stadium to look forward to – or do we!!!!

Ha, Ha, Haaaaa!!!

Colin Glassar
24 Posted 10/09/2017 at 15:24:30
25 goals for a missing player is quite impressive in my book.
Dave Pritchard
25 Posted 10/09/2017 at 15:37:42
Team structure needs sorting – starting, for me, by leaving out Klaassen and Ramirez and installing Sigurdsson as our No 10 and playing Calvert-Lewin or Niasse up front. Then play a winger, either Lennon or Lookman. Put Jags in for Williams and play Holgate at right back.
Dave Williams
26 Posted 10/09/2017 at 16:54:00
Niasse has to be worth a game after today's effort. He can hardly do worse than what has been played so far, can he!
Daniel Lim
27 Posted 10/09/2017 at 17:12:33
I read that Koeman has done some great job rebuilding the team at Southampton and quickly too. Can someone enlighten me what and how he did that?

I don't pay attention to any team besides Everton so I totally don't know what happen when comes to other clubs.

I didn't even know he was at Southampton in the first place. But I'm really curious. What did he do at Southampton that made him the top target of Moshiri?

James Stewart
28 Posted 10/09/2017 at 17:39:00
@27 Two words: Les Reed.

Koeman had nothing to do with transfers there.

Koeman was on Moshiri's radar because he was on Arsenal's at the time he was there.

Colin Glassar
29 Posted 10/09/2017 at 17:39:15
Daniel, he had Les Reed (Director of Football) who has unearthed most of Southampton's gems like Mane, Lallana, Clyne etc He had Sammy Lee who did most of the first team coaching and that blonde fella who did tactics and motivation (he also worked for England).

Koeman left them at Southampton out of respect to The Saints. Sammy would've been hard to swallow but he's a highly respected coach in the game. Big mistake imo.

Danny Broderick
30 Posted 10/09/2017 at 19:57:22
I didn't see yesterday's game, so I am not going to comment on tactics, subs etc. But one thing that has been niggling away at me for a while now is our recruitment structure. It just doesn't seem right to me.

Remember Koeman having a blast at the board for them not getting the Schneiderlin deal over the line? He clearly wanted the player, but it wasn't happening...

How can it be right that the manager is away playing golf for the weekend in Portugal on transfer deadline day? The manager came out and said that we needed a striker and a left sided defender. How is it that we didn't get them?

Just to nail my colours to the mast, I am a Koeman fan. But I can't understand how the manager can be so detached in our recruitment process. That can never work. It seems to me that the manager is as surprised as us that we didn't get a striker in! Was he watching Sky Sports News all day like me on deadline day?!

I think we need a bit of clarity on transfers. It seems to me that Steve Walsh is in charge of recruiting youngsters for the U23s. The manager should be in charge of buying players for the first team.

It seems to me that Koeman has not ended up with the squad that he wanted after the transfer window. Yet he is ultimately accountable. I just don't get it.

Andrew James
31 Posted 10/09/2017 at 20:07:02
I don't think we should be worried about a crisis as we will improve and our opponents will be easier to play in the coming months. But my central concerns about the manager remain and I cannot see this season being a good one.

But the club won't fire him any time soon. Look how long they persisted with Martinez. There's an argument he should have gone after we finished 11th, but he was given a second chance and we went into meltdown.

They also won't want to pay out another compensation package of millions of pounds for the second time in 18 months.

Dave Abrahams
32 Posted 10/09/2017 at 20:28:04
Colin. (29), I believe it was Kenwright who put the blocks on Sammy Lee, he didn't think Everton fans would have liked the club to pay compensation for an ex-Liverpool player.
Stan Schofield
33 Posted 10/09/2017 at 20:32:46
Danny@39: I can't see that getting a striker would have made much of a difference. No matter what players you have, you need to know how to use them, how to set the tactics up right, but it appears that Koeman is a bit short on brain cells when it comes to tactics (not to mention man-management).
Jamie Sweet
35 Posted 10/09/2017 at 23:28:11
I am generally optimistic, but I'm struggling to maintain said optimism.

I just can't see how we're going to succeed in this league without pace and firepower.

The fact we finished this transfer window having spent millions, and ended up worse off in both of these departments, is absolutely baffling.

Chris Gould
36 Posted 10/09/2017 at 23:46:20
So now people are suggesting that Koeman had little to do with Southampton's two most successful premier league seasons?! It was all down to Les Reed and the coaches?

Well, how come they never finished as high in the league before or the season after? What was Les Reed and the coaches doing differently?

Pochettino did a great job, but Koeman took them higher and then higher again, breaking into the top 6 with a winning run of 7 games to finish the season. Are you seriously saying that it wasn't anything to do with Koeman? In that case, maybe we've been poor because Steve Walsh and our coaches are shit?

You can't blame a manager when we're shit but then not praise him when Southampton were good. That's nonsense.

To say none of the buys were down to him is also rubbish. He managed Pelle at Feyenord and knew Tadic as he played for Twente. He also brought over Toby Alderweireld who he knew from Ajax. All 3 played for Dutch teams at a time when Koeman managed in the Dutch league and you don't think they were Koeman buys?

He brought them in after losing his players to Liverpool, and Southampton were better for it. Les Reed takes care of negotiations but they were Koeman signings.

Fair enough to be fucked off and disenchanted but to try and suggest he doesn't deserve credit for his achievements at Southampton is daft.

Derek Thomas
37 Posted 11/09/2017 at 01:32:42
I'm with you ,Andy. I had my doubts last October / November and said sometimes you have to admit it just isn't working and end it early rather than drag it out and prolong the agony.

It didn't seem to be working then – yes, there were mitigating circumstances, but, even allowing for them, I didn't see a potential for major improvement and it hasn't, to my eye, got any better.

Plus the added 'bonus' of;

a) Millions spent.

b) 'The family silver' (you know who-kaku) sold – some say, Mourhino for one, 'on the cheap'.

'The Dutch Moyes' is teetering ever nearer to the Abyss of becoming 'The Dutch Mike Walker' – with more banana skins hurtling over the horizon every 3 or 4 days until the next International break in November(?)

The Board won't sack him tomorrow (I wish) so the old excuse to do nothing - lets give him a decent run of a dozen or so games could come into play. Which brings us neatly to...

...The Watford game on the 5th November, with Ron Koeman replacing Guy Fawkes on top of his very own personal Bonfire of the Vanities.

John Pierce
38 Posted 11/09/2017 at 02:35:36
It's actually tough to say something that hasn't been said – smart, insightful or otherwise.

Admittedly I went nuts with him after Watford away last season. And was told, rightly, to wind my big brass neck in.

I eventually calmed down, but the last 10 games of last season pretty much nailed my suspicions. Everton were set for seventh, no cup commitments, a platform just to either throw caution to wind and be brave or manage academy players into the team. Koeman did neither and we ebbed away without producing a win or football worthy of memory since City at home in January.

My conclusion against the prevailing wisdom, that his tactics were a means to an end, was that no manager I know of goes through a tactical regeneration. Koeman wanted the same tactics – conservative and pragmatic – to be executed with better players.

That much was evident in preseason and Europa League. So I did say top 7 after 10 games, alive in both the league and Europa league was my yardstick.

What does it matter? It can't hide the defensive shithousery which is infecting our play. The players are visibly wilting under his orders and, come more winnable games, the performances to date are so without merit, that we may just have too much riding on those games.

Everton's stated ambition has rightly raised the bar, and in turn we should consider removing the coach more quickly than ever before, we have a model that can withstand the change.

Patience, the watchword of many on here, is a false dawn, as the last 22 years have proven. So why not get rid and find a manager who can handle the players and expectations?

A sorry state, with little sign of improvement; that's nicey nice for "Sack the manager".

Andrew Keatley
39 Posted 11/09/2017 at 03:01:35
Koeman signed a 3-year contract when he took the job – which always struck me as a short contract for a manager.

Who knows what will end up happening but, when he arrived I didn't believe that he'd ever renew the contract and be here come the start of the 2019-20 season.

I thought it was going to be a case of three years to move us into the top six (and being subsequently headhunted by a bigger club) or not – at which point, we'd probably be happy to try someone else.

I think we should try someone else now.

Daniel Lim
40 Posted 11/09/2017 at 03:04:14
Ref: 28, 29, 38 – thanks.

Ref: 38 – It's mind-boggling that the Koeman at Everton does not resemble the one at Southampton at all.

I don't know who this guy is that's sitting on the manager's seat at Goodison Park.

Darren Hind
41 Posted 11/09/2017 at 06:43:49
When we offered Koeman a contract worth nearly £20m, he knew he would never have to work again.

We made Moyes one of the richest failures in sport and we paid in excess of £20m to Martinez, including £10m just to get rid of him.

The biggest myth of all is that because Koeman is a big name player, he could attract top class footballers. Bollocks. Where are they?

The notion that the players who did sign wouldn't have accepted the deal we offered if Koeman hadn't been here defies belief.

We are in the business of making multi millionaires out of very ordinary managers. "We don't just make you a millionaire, bring your kid as well."


Phil Sammon
43 Posted 11/09/2017 at 06:51:52
Colin Glassar (#19)

That's the key to all of this. Koeman didn't want to come to Everton. He came purely for the money. It just feels like the wheels have come off and he has neither the ability nor desire to tackle the issue.

This one is not going to end well.

Ian Hollingworth
45 Posted 11/09/2017 at 07:39:38
If this is just a stepping-stone and he is not arsed, how do you think that will affect his next appointment? Surely a successful Everton team is the best advert for his next appointment.

We are not good enough, full stop and we were not good enough last season even with Lukaku and Barkley. I definitely think the squad we have could do better (and that's the managers job) but there is not enough quality to get anywhere near the top 4.

What does not help is that Koeman appears to have lost the plot – and that on top of the realisation that maybe Moshiri is not the saviour we hoped for – is a daunting prospect for us all.

Colin Glassar
46 Posted 11/09/2017 at 07:52:57
Chris, Southampton were good, very good, under Koeman but they were also very cyclical, ie, they'd go on winning streaks and then go 6-7 games without a win.

He had an excellent backroom staff behind him and a very proactive director of football. Maybe Southampton were more demanding of him – unlike fluffy, cuddly Everton.

Chris Gould
48 Posted 11/09/2017 at 07:55:58
Darren,

I didn't expect us to get off to a great start. I predicted we'd only get a couple of wins in our first 6 league fixtures. However, like most people, I didn't expect us to be quite as shite as we have been.

I think it's clear that in the summer window Koeman went all out for a squad capable of playing 3-5-2. He knew it wouldn't work without a Giroud and a left-sided centre-back. He banged on and on about it every chance he got.

He was failed in this department and left with an unbalanced squad that can't play 3-5-2 and now he is trying to find a system that fits. He has left himself in the difficult position of trying to play all of his summer buys, who he most probably promised would start if they signed.

I think it's clear that Sigurdsson has always been his number one choice for Barkley's role with Klaassen then able to drop deep or rotate. Rooney coming in has forced him to play Sigurdsson out of position and it makes no sense. I am convinced Rooney is a Kenwright buy and that the wheels were in motion long before Koeman arrived.

Koeman seems to be a planner. He had the plan to play us in a formation that needed specific players, but now that's gone tits-up he doesn't have a Plan B. It's his biggest fault. He doesn't seem to adapt to a situation when things aren't going to his plan. He needs to play his best team not his best 11 players.

I haven't written him off yet. I never felt the players would all find their feet in time for the tough start. I did expect us to show signs of progress, and that is obviously worrying.

But we must remind ourselves that Spurs are a well oiled machine and we are a bunch of parts that don't quite fit – yet.

I'm concerned but not overly so. Koeman needs to find answers quickly, but the team is unbalanced and doesn't have an out-and-out striker. The fault for this is not all Koeman's. We could very well be one striker and left sided centre back away from being a solid team. Unfortunately we're going to have to wait until January to find out. Coleman, Bolasie and McCarthy coming back will make a difference.

I am patient enough to wait until Christmas. I have seen a lot that worries me, but I have seen a lot of Koeman that leads me to believe he can sort us out.

Phil Sammon
49 Posted 11/09/2017 at 08:11:02
Ian (#45)

There's no two ways about it, he does see us as a stepping stone. Of course, a disaster at Everton will not look good on his CV.. . but it's never his fault is it?

He keeps pointing out how difficult it is to bridge the gap between us and those above us as though circumstances are against him. Just completely misses the point though, doesn't it?

We're not expecting to win the league... we were totally prepared to give managers time. What no fan can tolerate is their team rolling over without a fight, without a plan and seemingly without any means to put things right.

Thomas Lennon
50 Posted 11/09/2017 at 08:32:13
I don't agree with much of what is written here in frustration, but this is a frustrating situation for sure.

I strongly doubt that Koeman feels 'comfortable' managing for this new Everton. He is under increasing pressure and is one or two defeats against less well-funded teams (Europa League?) of being questioned by the board. Kenwright has an influence but not the last say any more.

Koeman failed to buy? It has been written several times that Koeman & Walsh draw up a list, others see them over the line with perhaps an encouraging word or two from Koeman for the player. Kenwright seems to be senior negotiator though that may well be looked at after the latter part of the summer.

I agree with Chris (#48) – there was a plan which is missing one or two players but most of all missing the confidence of his current players. Many of these were apparently signed as 'leaders on the pitch' so there will be many ideas on what we do next but clearly, and for some time, teams that can press us, will (Chelsea and Spurs can, Liverpool will) as they know we lack the movement to resist. Movement comes with confidence, we will not get more confident playing the four teams that are most likely to occupy the top four positions in May in our first five games, three of them away.

If we still look so disjointed by Halloween, then start to panic. I doubt Moshiri will pause the trigger finger for long, he has a stadium to fill in 3 years.

Ian Hollingworth
51 Posted 11/09/2017 at 08:49:17
Phil (49), I agree and I have serious doubts not only of the team's quality but also the managers. However I do believe that he needs Everton to be successful for his longer term personal plans.

We could also argue that any manager at any club is just a stepping stone. One thing is for sure: he has one huge job on his hands now and moaning about it won't do him any good.

Don Alexander
52 Posted 11/09/2017 at 09:48:02
Chris Gould (#48), I share your point of view. Being patient doesn't make us Koeman- acolytes (unless you're a petulant know-all) but by any measure we need to win most of the points available before Christmas if we have any hope at all of improving on last season's performance.

I didn't see the game, for once, but reading of the evident exasperation visibly shown by some players on the pitch doesn't sound encouraging. Factor in a play-maker/"leader" who's once again shown himself to be the opposite of a professional footballer and I suspect there'll be all sorts of dark mutterings around Finch Farm.

Time for Mr Koeman and his team, and the players, to actually earn their plentiful corn by winning, ugly or otherwise, to start with!

James Watts
53 Posted 11/09/2017 at 10:13:45
I'm as disappointed as anyone right now with Koeman. But anyone who thinks he'll be sacked anytime soon is living the same cuckoo land as where he gets his tactics from.

The very earliest that would happen is Christmas time. I however suspect it will be nearer the end of the season if we are lower than 8th and no decent run in the cups.

Unfortunately it means it'll be a long season for most of us.

Carl Taylor
54 Posted 11/09/2017 at 10:19:48
I have always had the same feeling for Koeman as he has for Everton: indifference.

At a time when teams were/are appointing manager's with personality and drive, eg, Conte, Klopp, Guardiola, Mourinho, we appointed a dour man with no interest in developing a bond with the supporters of the club he now manages. He shows no anger when we lose or joy when we win.

He doesn't adapt to the players available, he tries to fit the players to the system he likes. He is a fantasy football manager.

If any on here are playing the fantasy football 'draft' league this season, it is hysterical how many Koeman's are on there. All moaning that somebody 'picked' Lukaku before them so how can they expect to win when they coukd only pick Vardy. It's an easy game football, when you can pick any player you want.

A decent manager would sit down with the squad he has and pick the system that they best fit. For me, with the players we have, we should set up like Spurs set up against us at the weekend until Bolasie is fit. Kenny, until Coleman comes back, and Baines providing width and a diamond midfield, with Calvert-Lewin up front. Koeman won't do that because he has to fit Gana, Morgan, Klaassen, Rooney, Sigurdsson and Sandro in.

My indifference to Koeman has turned to dislike, and I believe we will be bottom half by the time January comes, with no European football to look forward to in 2018.

I am now firmly in the "give Unsworth a chance with what we have now" camp, and I think we will be in a better position to attract players come January. I hope Moshiri is as ruthless a businessman as I would imagine you have to be to become a billionaire.

Kevin Gillen
55 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:27:25
Our supporters are rightly angry and disappointed after Saturday – we were played off the park. I haven't seen the stadium so empty at full-time ever – even in the cushion-throwing days of the 70s.

I never leave before the end of the game but on 60 minutes I did have an urge to leave – we were clueless and disorganised.

I didn't understand the plan or see what the plan was. I assumed it was to try and play through the middle and leave space for Martina or Baines to bomb down the outside.

My partner pointed out before the game the sheer number of changes from last year's team. An astonishing transformation.

As many supporters point out above our squad is so imbalanced – we are a significant injury away from a very real crisis. If Baines or Calvert-Lewin were to be injured, I dread to think what might happen.

I wrote a few weeks ago about how badly depleted we are in terms of numbers of available and motivated players and I really feel as if this transfer window has been far from satisfactory.

I don't believe in knee jerk reactions and I'm sure we will improve but everyone at the club, including the supporters, need to pull together to lift the club. The last few weeks have seen nothing but negative publicity.

Several things could improve the team immediately. Jonjoe Kenny being the first, he is good defending and going forward and is a more natural fullback than Holgate. Davies should start in a forward position and Calvert-Lewin should also start. Klaassen and Sandro need time to earn their shirts.

It is criminal that we have no replacement lined up for Lukaku, a striker in the transfer window is a priority unless of course we give Niasse, Henen, Sambou or Dyson a chance to shine.

Chris Gould
56 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:28:32
Colin, that was very true and it's why I don't think he'll be too concerned. Southampton would be poor for several games and then suddenly click and beat a top 6 team. They would then go on a winning run and look fantastic.

He's just as likely to lead us on a 6-game winning streak. Let's hope it starts with Man Utd. I haven't given up hope.

Carl Taylor
57 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:35:50
De Boer gone from Palace; we dodged a bullet last summer by the look of it. Any movement on the odds for the next clueless Dutchman to be sacked because pedestrian football only works in Holland?
Kunal Desai
58 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:43:25
Well, at least the gloating Spurs fans at work are now out the way. Yes, it should have been 6 or 7 with wry smiles on their faces. They are miles ahead of us. What I would give for a shrewd man like Daniel Levy.

How do we move forward here? We have to bring Niasse back into fold. There is nothing to lose. He may be able to hold up play and bring others more into the final third. Ultimately he's now got to try something different.

Steve Brown
59 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:45:09
Kunai, Spurs have won nothing and won't win anything this season.
Derek Thomas
60 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:49:04
'Courageous' decision by Palace – time will tell. But a decision made earlier rather than later?

Hodgson though?

Rob Halligan
61 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:51:52
Kunal, ask them the last time they won the league? I bet most of them weren't even born.

For the record, it was 1961. Only 56 years ago. This, added to their only previous league championship win.

James Hughes
62 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:54:57
Rob, I use something similar. I like to point out that I wasn't born last time they won the league and I am 54! Always keeps them quiet. :)
Paul Smith
63 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:55:32
Past glories count for fuck-all when you've been shite for most the modern era. Spurs are much better & much more likely to end their drought than us.

Brent Stephens
64 Posted 11/09/2017 at 11:58:29
I still think the likelihood is that Koeman is here for the next few months at least, so we live in hope. I think we all had optimism or hope at the start, though in varying degrees, and welcomed the guy here albeit maybe with some caution expressed.

Now I can't wait for the next few games – just to hopefully see some signs of development.

Mike Doyle
65 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:07:01
If they do another one of those retro themed days at Goodison, perhaps they could include cushion-throwing from the main stand?

Saturday (and Chelsea) previously were as bad as anything I've seen in recent years.

Steve Brown
66 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:07:21
Sacking Koeman at this stage would make us as moronic as Palace.
Brian Williams
67 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:30:05
Looks like our progress will be slow and painful – it's certainly painful at the moment.

I don't believe in knee jerk reactions so I'd have to say Koeman will be/should be here until the end of this season unless things are dire in the extreme come January. If we're not up there or thereabouts though (which I just can't see at the moment) then he should be moved on at the end of the season without a doubt.

He says about being realistic, but if you come 7th in one season and then bring in numerous new players and don't expect to be higher the next season then there's something very very wrong. Give him this season and, if we haven't improved, get rid!

Tony J Williams
68 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:49:42
So we get beat by the teams who finished 1st and 2nd last season and some posters are calling for his head.

I don't like Koeman but he has a new side to try to get to work together without a striker due to being shafted by the board.

The team needs time to gel and as usual with our fixtures we always seem to have a spate of games on the bounce against the top-end teams (does any other team have this occur so often?)

I am concerned as to how toothless we look but don't see how acting like Palace will help us.

James Stewart
69 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:56:52
@66 No-one wants that. People calling for Koeman's head do so because he shows no aptitude for change. The football is terrible the tactics non existent, promising youngsters held back, and without any positives it's hard to fight Koeman's corner.

No-one expects us to beat Chelsea and Spurs but to get spanked twice with just one single shot on target is not acceptable.

Amit Vithlani
70 Posted 11/09/2017 at 12:59:52
Kunal: "Well at least the gloating Spurs fans at work are now out the way. Yes, it should have been 6 or 7 with wry smiles on there faces. They are miles ahead of us. How I would give for a shrewd man like Daniel Levy."

Careful, Kunal, or the net-spend / sell-to-buy merchants will be on to you.

Not for them the idea that you extract every last pound when you sell players on, and play hardball when you buy. Levy has been doing this for years. Sold Bale and Modric, got rid of Redknapp, and hired Pochettino to build a top side around Kane, Eriksen and Alli, who cost around a tenth of what he got for the other two.

No, for them, we have to be in the red when it comes to incoming and outgoings as the job of the owner is to blindly back his manager and outspend everyone else as this is clearly the only way to build a top 4 team.

The facts are Moshiri has backed the Walsh - Koeman management team who in their wisdom went to great lengths to buy Sigurdsson whilst doing nothing about a CF.

Levy would never allow the blame to be put at his door, or indeed for there to be "more realism" in expectations, as Koeman appears to be asking us fans and his Board to accept. One hopes Moshiri, like the fans, will not accept this kop-out.

If Moshiri is to make us compete like Spurs, then he needs to swallow his pride and wield the axe as Levy did with Juande Ramos and Harry Redknapp when those managers failed to deliver; in both cases both managers were backed with serious dosh.

As you pointed out on another post, this club has to shake off this cuddly, pally mindset cultivated by Kenwright and instil a mindset of being relentlessly competitive and driven as Pochettino, Mourinho, Klopp, Conte and even Dyche have shown.

Koeman – who prefers to spend time on a golf course having a drink or two rather than being back at Finch Farm discussing tactics and studying the opposition – has not shown so far that he is of the same mindset.

The performances in the last two games bear this out. We were out-fought, out-thought and out-classed (or "surprised" – as Koeman put it).

Anthony Hawkins
71 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:00:00
The start to the season has been dreadful and the dawn appears to be false. But, and it's a big BUT – look at the form over the last 10 years at a minimum.

Under Moyes the expectation was top half. Under Martinez the expectation was top 7. Under Koeman the expectation is breaking into the top 4.

The supporters' expectations has rightfully increased but the clubs investment policy doesn't appear to have – we're still balancing the books!! The net spend is still negligible and I don't care what anyone says about amortization – it's cash-flow that counts.

The Lukaku sale money in vs purchase money out. How it's accounted for is a whole other matter.

Then there's the scouted targets and players the board managed to entice in. In his own words, Koeman has put together a list and handed it to Kenwright and his team to get them over the line. In this respect, Koeman has every right to feel aggrieved as he expected a new striker and they haven't materialised. The players will also be feeling the impact mentally.

When Koeman has let the side down is on the pitch. The team looks unbalanced, there is no pace and whilst there are lots of leaders they aren't playing for each other. The team needs to gel and understand that they can't all be leaders on the pitch.

I'm still of the opinion bringing Rooney back was a big mistake. Hopefully he'll prove me wrong but the midfield continues to be clogged by central midfielders with no wingers – and now no strikers.

Koeman needs to roll the dice and attempt something like in the short term:

Pickford
Martina, Keane, Holgate, Baines
Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Davies, Vlasic
Mirallas (?), Lookman

With everyone fit, may be:

Pickford
Coleman, Keane, Holgate, Baines
Ramirez, Sigurdsson, Davies, Vlasic
Bolasie, Lookman

The team needs pace and an element of the unknown.

Peter Warren
72 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:07:31
Unsure why anybody would have Martina in the team.

Unsure if Koeman has a clue...

Phil Walling
73 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:19:03
This present state of affairs – it's just short of a crisis – is going to be a real test of Moshiri's ability to establish himself as a capable 'owner'.

Convinced as so many of us are that Koeman is a flop, we can't reasonably expect him to sack his first managerial appointment less than halfway through his contract – and he certainly won't do it because WE say he should!

If I read him right, he will want to be absolutely sure that he's picked a 'wrong 'un' before he makes a move – although I suspect he will let the Dutchman know he's none too impressed. Ten games is often cited as the first review mark and many managers have seen their fate sealed at that point. Most 'gaffers' in the relegation places at that mark don't see the season out, even if 'confidence' is expressed in their ability.

After that, a lower order league place coupled with early exit from the cups will do for our man around Christmas time as the patience of our backers is eroded. Then again, we could all be wrong and by Santa time we could be troubling the 'big boys'. Let's at least hope so!

Sam Hoare
74 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:21:38
I don't think calls to sack Koeman can justly be labelled 'knee-jerk' or compared to palace. This is his second season after all.

Realistically I'd be highly surprised if the board do not give him till Xmas at least (unless things really do go off the rails). If we're in the bottom half come 2018 and the football shows no sign of getting better, then I hope we'll make a change; though Kenwright is notorious for sticking by his men (by all accounts, Koeman is not his man, however).

I'd love to see Unsworth given £30/40M to try and buy a striker and a left-back or wingback with Walsh's help and then get the team playing something like the glorious U23s with this team in the New Year:

Pickford
Kenny (Coleman) Keane Holgate Baines
Gueye Davies
Bolasie Sigurdsson (Rooney, Klaassen or Barkley!) Lookman (Sandro)
Calvert-Lewin (or a new striker).

Kevin Tully
75 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:24:45
The back pages have neatly described our last three League performances:

"10 man City dominated Everton."

"Chelsea had it so easy, it was farcical."

"Comfortable Spurs cruised to all 3 points just after half-time."

You don't even have to be subjected to the dross on show in all three games, we look absolutely clueless.

To me, the players look as if they don't even know what the style of play is supposed to be. Most of them look scared to cross the halfway line. We are playing neither counter-attacking, or possession based football. We have no focal point to hoof it to, if that's his game. We have no flair players who can beat two or three defenders and conjure up something magical.

Can someone explain how this squad will play together? I just don't see it at all. It's like a random set of players have crashed their plane and landed at Finch Farm.

Ste Traverse
76 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:39:18
I think the 'experts' on here who insisted we'd be 'better off without that disrespectful beaut Lukaku' must be feeling rather silly now we can't buy a goal since he's gone while he's banging them in for the Mancs.
Peter Barry
77 Posted 11/09/2017 at 13:40:52
Crystal Palace just showed how decisive owners act.
Dave Bowen
78 Posted 11/09/2017 at 14:15:22
If the insipid displays against Chelsea & Spurs weren't enough, consider this stat: Only Swansea have had fewer shots on target than us this season.

Lukaku has gone & not been replaced. Koeman has managed to piss off 2 admittedly inconsistent but talented flair players in Ross & Mirallas. Shunned another striker in Niasse. Then filled the team with central midfielders.

He plays Holgate as right wingbackin a five when Martina is clearly better going forward. When he plays a flat back 4 he picks Martina when Holgate should play.

The Europa League matches & Stoke games we have won were awful viewing & he threw away 2 points against Man City with a baffling double substitution. I will take a dour draw on Thursday but, after that, Koeman needs performances sooner rather than later or Moshiri could have a decision to make.

Kunal Desai
79 Posted 11/09/2017 at 17:26:00
Absolutely, Amit. As I have pointed out in previous posts, there seems to be a happy go lucky sentiment when it come to the club. Do we honestly think Levy would bring back someone like Bale when he reaches 31? No, of course not. We bring back Rooney and that has the hallmarks of Kenwright instigating this move.

The whole mentality of this club needs to change and as pointed out it needs to be ruthless that how you succeed is business. Sometimes you have to make brave changes if it may not appease the many that don't like it.

Koeman – when he speaks in his press conferences and post match interviews its generally referring to the club in the third person. "Everton must do this" or "Everton must provide more productivity" etc. I want a manager to say this is mine, we all collectively have a responsibility, not talking about the club you manage as a third person.

I'm prepared to give him some time to get these players working for one another and hope they gel, but performances and capitulations like Saturday and he will be losing a lot more support, then all eyes are on Moshiri and the board.

Steavey Buckley
80 Posted 12/09/2017 at 09:26:18
Everton basically have the wrong type of players playing. It was clear from last season and the season before the Everton defence needed to be replaced. Yet, Williams and Baines are still playing, and are being targeted by the opposition as defensive weak links. That's why goals and threats are coming from the left-hand side. But Koeman will allow this situation to carry on to the end of the season. He is just as stubborn as Moyes and Martinez before him.

Next, the midfield. Mourinho would not have allowed Schneiderlin to leave if he thought he was really any good and then replace him with Matic for £40 million. The reason he went, Mourinho also wants a pressing game, while Schneiderlin does not press but drifts around. That's why Spurs were able to boss the midfield. But again, Koeman will keep playing him until the end of the season.

Up front, it was obvious to most Everton fans, Everton needed another striker to play alongside Lukaku last season. Instead, Lukaku has gone so Everton now need 2 strikers, and that situation is also not going to change until the end of the season, because 2 quality strikers are not available anywhere in the world at this time.

Everton for a long time have not had quality on both sides of the pitch. It must be said that Lukaku did very well not having that support. Although Koeman did bring in Bolasie to support Lukaku last season. He only did in patches instead tended to be more of a one-trick pony. So his return from injury is not going to change the problems of the wide berth. That leaves Everton with their recent recruits of Lookman, Calvert-Lewin and Vlasic, who are just learning their trade at the highest level. So must be given time.

As for Rooney, he is not going to fulfill any forward role. Those days of him hanging around the penalty area with regularity have long gone; he is more likely to be found as an auxiliary wingback. Then there is Sandro and Klaassen, who are not setting the Premier League alight. Their lightweightedness and lack of aggression are more suited to the Spanish and Dutch leagues, but not to the Premier League.

If I look around the Premier League these days, Everton have a squad of players who are more suited to the bottom half of the league, and that is a disgrace after Koeman has spent £200 million on players with Ronney on at least £8 million a season.

Lee Courtliff
81 Posted 12/09/2017 at 10:13:44
One of my mates went to school with Jay Rodriguez, who played under Koeman at Saints.

According to Jay, Koeman spent very little time on the training pitch and left most of it to his assistants!! Jay didn't rate him at all.

I'm fairness, Jay didn't play much under Koeman so maybe there is a touch of bitterness when it comes to assessing Koeman?

Shane Corcoran
82 Posted 12/09/2017 at 10:25:42
I think there's a bit of over-reacting here although I'm not a million miles from it myself.

Last autumn, I insisted the Koeman had been very lucky with the points total we had achieved, both through the luck of the fixtures we'd had, and some fortuitous wins and draws.

This season, it seems like his luck is out although I think we had a bit in Europe.

I share the frustrations over the lack of pace, width and firepower. Some players will take time to get used to the English game, in particular Sandro and Klaassen.

But why not put Sigurdsson central behind Rooney in the mean time? Make sure there's some pace in the team by playing at least one of Mirallas, Lennon or Sandro in a wider area. I'm not a fan of either of the first two but at least it injects a bit of pace.

I'm losing interest but I'm willing to be a little more patient.

The "no problem" Europa League group must be looking a bit more difficult to some posters now.

Steve Guy
83 Posted 12/09/2017 at 10:49:04
Get Moysie back and see us fly!
Ciarán McGlone
84 Posted 12/09/2017 at 11:38:17
We are generally crap at the moment, but the amount of posts using our dire managerial problems to have a go at Rooney, is frankly absurd and astounding.

He has, without doubt, been our most consistent offensive player this season. Stop using Koeman's faults to try and confirm your preformed judgements on Rooney.

You were wrong, be big enough to admit it, and stop engaging in vacuous confirmation bias.

Gordon Crawford
85 Posted 12/09/2017 at 11:51:42
Give him 5 or six more games and if there isn't any drastic improvement, then he needs sacked. I am not convinced the players want to play for him. I'm sure Ross would stay too, if Koeman got the chop. And we could do with him right now and Coleman.
Steavey Buckley
86 Posted 12/09/2017 at 12:01:37
Gordon: Everton's season is already over by having the wrong players in the squad, many of whom cost a fortune, by Everton's standards, that no-one else wants to buy at the price Everton want.
Gareth Clark
87 Posted 12/09/2017 at 18:01:10
MY GOODNESS! It is impossible to please some Everton fans... so negative, always something wrong, so impatient, always the managers fault.

Unfortunately you don't know as much as Koeman does, or you'd be managing in the Premier League... but you're not.

HE has the experience, HE has the stats behind him, HE is in charge.

Stop bitching & moaning about every single thing!

He's got us into the Europa League, he's got people talking about Everton. Let him keep doing his job.

When Spurs sold Bale & plenty players came in with his money - it took time for the team to gel. Plus, I think the players we got for Rom's money are a lot better than what Spurs got.

It will take time for Koeman's new team to gel. Be patient.

Klaassen & Sandro have played less than 5 games in the Premier League & already the Everton negatives say they aren't good enough. Most games being against very tough opposition.

I think we are now only 2 or 3 players away from a proper good team.

A big #9 (Dolberg or Batshuayi for me) who can lead the line & is mobile and has a bit of pace.

A left-back to compete with Baines (Bertrand first choice for me).

A centre-back to take over from Williams as the first choice – not really needed at the moment as between Jags & Williams they do a very good job, although some will disagree. (Rojo, Koulibaly, Tah, Van Dijk come to mind.)

If someone can name a manager better equipped to take us forward as Koeman, let me know... & those saying Unsy, unfortunately you're wrong. There is a big step from being a successful U23 manager to being a Premier League manager. I'm not saying he isn't good enough, he just isn't ready or have the experience.

Koeman is our manager & we should support him and back his decisions.

COYB.

Dan Davies
88 Posted 12/09/2017 at 21:55:35
Well you killed that thread off, Gareth hey! Hahaha. My gut feeling is you're not going to see the best of us until the New Year, unfortunately.
Will Mabon
89 Posted 13/09/2017 at 07:55:50
"I think we are now only 2 or 3 players away from a proper good team. "

Gareth, if you don't know as much as Koeman does (or you'd be managing in the Premier League), why are you suggesting players for him to complete the team? How would you know what's needed?

You're doing the very thing you don't want others to do; giving your thoughts. You choose to be positive – great. Doesn't give your opinion any more weight.

Btw, the Spurs team you mention post-Bale didn't gel. Where are those players now? Different manager, different team.

Stan Schofield
90 Posted 13/09/2017 at 15:04:57
Gareth @87: Which Everton fan are you referring to?
David Graves
91 Posted 13/09/2017 at 15:19:14
Gareth (#87),

You say "Unfortunately you don't know as much as Koeman does, or you'd be managing in the Premier League... but you're not."

But you then go on to say “I'll tell you what is needed…” and list the players he should buy!

So my opinion is not considered but yours is? Priceless.
And regarding being negative - I guess I can sum my ‘negativity' up into two main areas;

1. The imbalanced team the manager puts out on the park.

2. The shocking football played on a number of occasions this season.

I think that these issues are clear, even for those of us without the knowledge or experience of Koeman.

Whilst these concerns remain I'll remain negative and “impossible to please”.

Dave Wilson
92 Posted 13/09/2017 at 15:45:36
Gareth @87

You say "he's got people talking about Everton"

That's true, but scroll back to Kevin Tully's post @75

Look what they are saying, mate.

Winston Williamson
93 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:00:26
Oh for a balanced side:

Pickford
Kenny, Holgate, Keane, Baines
Lookman, Gana, Davies, Vlasic
Sigurdsson
Calvert-Lewin

Subs: Stekelenburg, Jagielka, Schneiderlin, Klaassen, Sandro, Rooney, Mirallas

Players need competition and that bench looks good. You have a bad game there is someone to take your place (apart from Baines – who can cover?).

There is pace in that team, it's balanced, but maybe lacks more creativity. Rooney has been scoring, so I may be harsh putting him on the bench. Klaassen needs to earn his place in the team and could possibly do with a settling in period? Same for Sandro.

One thing is for sure, we need width and cannot play with three No 10's!

Schneiderlin or Gana! It cannot be both!!

Mirallas also needs to fight for his place. Lookman gets my nod, as he has not continually let us down in the past – he needs to be given an opportunity.

I've considered, and reconsidered and consider myself considerable, considering the shite served up so far!!

John Pierce
94 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:05:25
Indifference towards Everton is how Koeman has treated us when we poached him from Southampton and ever since when he talks about the club.

Whilst there are reasoned arguments to why, it has created a perception he simply couldn't give a fook.

So when you are perceived to be an uncaring robot are you surprised that the tide will turn against you rapidly and with some vehemence?

Ronald lad was doomed from the day he accepted the job and pissed straight off on holiday.

Indifference; or Koeman-like – take your pick.

Daniel Lim
95 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:18:38
The argument that "you don't know as much as Koeman does, so you should shut up" is so flawed that a kindergarten student can rebuke you.
John Pierce
96 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:22:45
Ste 76.

As great a goalscorer that Rom is, surely you can see it papered over a massive chasm in Koeman's tactical 'duncery' ?

That abyss is now all to clear. Despite having a different set of players, without Rom to bail him out Koeman's tactics are redundant, as will he be very soon.

Also I'm sure you'll recognise if you watched Rom for United he's giving them way more than he gave us. It wasn't the one way street you 'see' it. Rom played on half power for us and that was why he courted so much stick.

His performances for United have been light years better in terms of work rate, attitude, and character then anything he ever gave us.

Great goalscorer Ste, stinky human being.

David Barks
97 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:31:17
Daniel (#95),

That argument really does drive me absolutely crazy. Shall we apply that outside of football as well? We don't know as much about a variety of things. I guess that brings and end to voting and the democratic system.

All of us voters need to just shut up and let those in charge get on with their jobs. After all, if we knew as much as them we'd be in that job right? The sit down and shut up crowd, they're brilliant.

James Morgan
98 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:45:45
Winston; 93.

My thoughts exactly! By shoehorning in all these players, you end up with an unbalanced team on the field and weaker options on the bench that can come and change the game. When you put the lineup like you have, plus with Coleman, Bolasie and McCarthy to come back in to the squad, we seem considerably stronger.

Raymond Fox
99 Posted 13/09/2017 at 16:59:42
I also want Koeman out, but I cant see it happening soon. He deserves sacking for his handling of the players alone.

As for recruitment, I think taking into account the loss of Lukaku we are a worse team now than last season. What a shambles we are from top to bottom.

As per usual we don't know who was ultimately responsible for deciding which players were targeted and how the negotiating was done, but they have 'balls up' big time on the evidence so far.

Nothing much has changed at the top as far as I can see, sure Moshiri has been a benefit to the club, ie, loaning the money to pay off our £80m outstanding debt and getting the club a £60m overdraft in case its needed.

But Moshiri is here as an investor not a messier, he hopes to make a profit on his half-share of the club, no harm in that of course – he's a business man.

If Barkley had signed for Chelsea and Niasse's transfer had gone though we wouldn't have spent a penny. £150m worth of players in, £150m worth of players out.

Top 4-6 ambitions, don't make me laugh.

Craig Walker
100 Posted 13/09/2017 at 17:59:09
It's depressing being an Evertonian. It really is. Every time we think we're progressing, it turns out to be yet another false dawn.

We're stuck with an expensively assembled bunch of individuals who will get thrashed by all of the better teams in the league. We can look forward to damage limitation football at the traditional grounds where we struggle.

We play football which is turgid and far from the School of Science we demand. Any time we get a player who shows anything, he's snapped up.

We've been overtaken by the likes of City, Chelsea and Spurs. We get a billionaire owner, which is something we've been crying out for years for and he still runs us like a corner shop. 40,000 fans can see what we need but the man in charge is oblivious.

Our neighbours across the park are still not contenders but light years ahead of us. I'm dreading derbies again. All the time and money invested in following Everton because I hope that we will have our day again.

Each year, it gets further away and all that we have is our proud history. There's only the Bramley Moore dock project that gives me a modicum of optimism. It's a depressing nightmare.

Dick Fearon
101 Posted 13/09/2017 at 22:50:02
John P @96, I agree about Rom's goals papering over Koeman's flaws. The same goes for Tiny Tim saving Moyes's bacon for years.


Dan Davies
102 Posted 13/09/2017 at 23:00:56
Can't we have Koeman for defence coach and get Martinez back as offence coach?

I dream of the school of science.

David McMullen
103 Posted 14/09/2017 at 11:39:18
There's more than a resemblance to the Martinez era. Good first season followed by cluelessness.

Sure Martinez's first season after the initial lacklustre start was enjoyable; we sang about the school of science being back. If only for a short time for the last two seasons, you may have blotted out the good first season and record points in the Premier League era.

Like last season I remember that there was no style of play or anything for a couple of months same this season. Koeman has the 'excuse' that it is a new team it needs time but he's fast becoming "clueless" in my eyes. Need to kick on fast how about a win tonight and a win at Old Trafford to settle our nerves?

Palace sacked De Boer... now, I'm not saying Koeman should be sacked, don't be daft, but if you changed the name from Everton to Palace and the manager around – is there really any difference at the moment? That's the worry.

Michael Lynch
104 Posted 14/09/2017 at 11:54:49
All I can say is that it's worrying when a fat, pissed has-been is our best player.

We all knew it was a tough start to the season but, as others have said, it's the lack of any sign of better things to come that's really the issue. Our squad looks hopelessly unbalanced, and the system we're playing baffling.

Koeman seeing us as a stepping stone to something better? You must be joking. This is the peak for him in club management, like it was for Bobby Martinez. His only hope is to pick up the Holland job and see if he can fool everyone like our brown-shoed clown of an ex-manager

Jon Withey
105 Posted 14/09/2017 at 12:41:07
Don't think there is much chance Koeman would be gone before the summer unless things get really bad.

I also think it would be incredibly reactive, unless we are in a relegation battle.

The plan for this season has been set in motion and we have to see it through now.

He's starting to irritate me a bit with his Moyes 'setting expectations' talk – we expect a competitive team at the very least, regardless of money spent.

I'll take a draw at Man City, but a pathetic 0-3 at home to Spurs is not on.

Steve Ferns
106 Posted 14/09/2017 at 12:55:22
Dan (#102), I think he's making mistakes in defence as much as he is in attack. A Moyes / Martinez partnership would be better.

Michael (#104), Barcelona make some weird managerial decisions, and it does seem like they were very interested in Koeman and sounded him out but he turned them down to honour his contract.

Koeman is 54, that means he is 56 when his contract expires. Which gives him a nice round 4 years to take him up to 60. I think his intention is to see his contract out with us (pocketing £18m) then to take the Barca job, and then to finish with Holland.

There's no way we will sack Koeman. We will get a result tonight (draw at least) then we will probably lose against United on Sunday before a morale boosting win for our U23 / 1st team hybrid.

This is the start of an easier run of fixtures: Bournemouth at home, Apollona at home, Burnley at home, then Brighton HA away, Lyon at home, and up to Arsenal at home and it is now 21st October. This run will probably not be a run of victories from each game, but it should be enough to build confidence and set the team moving up the table.

Arsenal will be an interesting test, either of us could go either way, that is complete meltdown or on a run of form, and so we should be more able to see exactly where this team is at, once it is more settled and fitter.

Koeman, for me, just does enough. 7th last season? It was enough. There was a load of reasons to be optimistic, but a lot of them have disappeared. If we go on a good run, and he plays the likes of Kenny and he does well, then those reasons can come back, with no doubt the promise of spending in January (there's always a carrot dangled in front of us).

Koeman isn't going anywhere, it will cost too much in compensation to get rid of him, and most new managers will want £100m to correct the deficiencies we all see in his team. That is, pace on the wings, and a decent striker.

Will Mabon
107 Posted 14/09/2017 at 17:55:34
"A Moyes / Martinez partnership would be better."

You know what, Steve – that occurred to me towards the very end of Martinez's first season. Never been done as such in the Premier League; money and egos a big consideration for just a start.

I guess a dual team like that must have been considered and discussed many times, but you're the only other one I've ever heard mention it so far. Maybe a concept for the future...

Dale Rose
108 Posted 16/09/2017 at 16:42:52
This is simple. We have lost Seamus,Bolasie and Lukaku. Three very influential players. Irrespective of what anyone thinks Lukaku was a goal scorer, we lost him we lost our goals. Seamus could run and run down that channel, and get a goal. Bolasie was a hard and tenacious player. Take them away and we are not left with a lot.

Ive said it time and time again, get the kids going. Id rather have an end of year place mid table, with them than a sink to the bottom with what we have now. The experience will do them good and give us a fighting force for the future.

Tom Bowers
109 Posted 16/09/2017 at 17:08:46
After watching Kyle Walker rampaging for City and before that, Spurs I realise what Everton are missing with the absence of Seamus. Yes, I know they should be able to compensate for that in other ways but it hasn't happened.

Bolasie for sure could have helped matters but then why they couldn't have kept Valencia instead of spending on Sandro who is struggling is beyond me.

Hindsight, I know is 20/20 but surely the scouting on Sandro was sub-par.

Anyway, who would expect RS to get one goal out of 35 efforts, so football is not an exact science, is it?

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