Going Down? You betcha!

by   |   30/10/2017  49 Comments  [Jump to last]

I have seen it all since my first game at Goodison, the record gate against Liverpool all those years ago. I am 81 now and never thought I would be writing a headline like that!

I read all your comments over many years, and have contributed occasionally myself. Loads of negativity and the odd optimistic view.

This has been coming for a long, long time now, and if something is not done immediately, I will see that headline come true. Bill Kenwright and Mr Moshiri are just sitting, watching and waiting but doing nothing.

Rooney should never have been allowed within 30 miles of the Old Lady, Koeman should have gone weeks ago... and what a total waste of money on rubbish we bought in the close season.

In my opinion, no matter who we bring in to manage or coach now, it's to late. In my opinion, the players do not want to know.

Can anybody see a way out of this BIG, BIG TROUBLE that my beloved Everton are in? Cut your losses, Mr Moshiri, and ditch the dross, buy big, and pay the money other successful clubs pay... or else; you have been warned!!!

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William Cartwright
1 Posted 30/10/2017 at 15:05:35
Short and to the point but highlights the cultural schism that confront the Club at this point in its history.

Moshiri understands the reality and significance of a spending mentality in the new (perhaps not so new) era of modern football and the Premier League.

Conversely, Bill Kenwright is still rooted in the Club's more romantic history (as am I and many others). Is there any middle ground position we can identify with? I don't know, but some weeks ago I posted a comment that no matter how good the youngsters are, with the odd exception, if we could afford it we should buy big talent, at the going rate, and provide our manager with the best tools for the job, sufficient to compete on a relatively playing field. The romantic days are over. Welcome to the 21st century of contemporary, media funded footy.

Moshiri stated in the recent staged meeting with the Club that Everton were "not a museum" and the cringing body language of Kenwright spoke volumes.

Moshiri invested financially and emotionally too in bringing Koeman to the Club. I feel sorry for him that Koeman really did not have the psyche to deliver in what must have been a very claustrophobic managerial approach to team buying instead of team building. Don't misunderstand me, I think he proved to be an appalling human being, and his style and record only mirrored what he had generally produced before.

The Moshiri / Kenwright divide must reconcile itself soon and what are the key aspects: I believe the manager selection is absolutely critical. Unsy, surrounded by his selected U-23s and older heads or A N Other with a more wily bankrolled team? How to choose and on what value system does one fall back on, or look forward to?

For me the answer is a classic liberal middle of the road approach, leaning more t the right (the wealthy option), than the left (the People's Club fraternity)

1. If you are good enough, you are old enough, Wayne proved that. Ross almost did, and may still do.

2. If Gylfi cannot play in the same team as Wayne, then pick the best and build your team around your choice. For me Gylfi based on age and recent history should get the nod.

3. Youngsters vs established'stars? Its a no-brainer – go with the best on the rosta, no matter whether he was bought in or brought up. No emotion, just a hard objective quality assessment.

That is why we need a cynical, hard nosed world class manager. Moshiri and others (me included) thought we had one, Oops, bit of a cock-up there. But was it? Was the missing number 9, the left-footed defender and full back bad management by Koeman or something more sinister from Kenwright?

Now we are reaping what we sow. I would love Unsy to turn it around, I really, really would. But the time frame and the reality check of our position in the drop zone means a significant high profile manager is more likely to step in, probably with an even more harsh agenda than Koeman.

It's such a shame he was not of the right moral fibre, backbone, culture, (call it what you will), but for all his many sins, not replacing Lukaku was his undoing, together with his malignant personality. He is / was responsible for the latter. For the former, I can only assume that Kenwright and the culture club that honestly I am tired of hearing about have a lot to answer for.

Stephen Brown
2 Posted 30/10/2017 at 15:15:00
We are in a total mess but I’m so pleased that this is being realised in October with 28 games to go!

Surely we can win 9 of those games and draw 4 giving us 39 points. Enough to stay up and start again and write this season off as a disaster!

It’s pathetic mismanagement that has led to us even having to worry about this!! I’m just thankful for Palace, Bournemouth, Swansea, Stoke and Huddersfield who all apear to be as bad as us!

It’s sad we are now worried more about Burnley losing tonight as they are now the cohort of team I’m worried about. It should have been is hoping Liverpool, Arsenal and Spurs!!

Terrible time to be an Evertonian !!

Clive Rogers
3 Posted 30/10/2017 at 18:04:02
This situation has been coming for years under Kenwright. He has been a terrible chairman and the club is still paying the price for his ridiculous appointment of the hapless Martinez.
Fran Mitchell
4 Posted 30/10/2017 at 18:22:30
We are in Trouble, but we do have some talented players.

Vlasic, Lookman, Davies, Barkley, Gueye, Calvert-Lewin are the players that can lift us out of this. So we need a manager who will suit these players.

Allardyce is not that man, our 'Allardyce' players (jags, Williams, Schneiderlin) are the ones se need shut of.

Tuchel is the man to get a system to suit our talented Young players. He is also someone who may attract a top class central defender to shore us up.

No doubt, our weak defense is our biggest problem, more even than a lack of a striker.

Stan Schofield
5 Posted 30/10/2017 at 22:14:06
Any club can get relegated. But being mega rich reduces the chance of it significantly, whilst increasing the chance of winning trophies and glory. Even if we avoid relegation, we're unlikely to reach the top of the heap without someone like Usmanov who can provide the financial resources that the likes Man City, Man Utd and Chelsea enjoy.

We've been 'mega rich' before, with John Moores. The cheque book team, the Mersey millionaires who could attract world class players like Alan Ball. Rather than attract very good players these days, we sell them, usually to Man Utd. We are simply a mid-table feeder club, and even if we improve to reside in the top-6, we're unlikely to win trophies, certainly not consistently, at best rarely. We are not much different from Liverpool and Spurs, both of whom could suffer what we're experiencing at the moment, with far more likelihood than the rich clubs.

What is happening is obviously not good, and supporters like us will always seek an explanation for it, be it mismanagement by the board or the detrimental effects of a particular chairman. But in reality, shit happens, it can happen to any club, and there isn't always an easy explanation, despite the theories.

Kunal Desai
6 Posted 30/10/2017 at 22:38:43
Over the years i've always felt that Everton were closer to doing an Aston Villa than ever finishing in the top four.

The alarm bells were loud and clear by 1st September. The failure not just to get one but two decent strikers with Sandro and Calvert-Lewin as backup was a catastrophe.

That alone should be relegation as punishment. Not to add required cover elsewhere instead of bringing in three number tens is pathetic. Who actually sanctioned bringing back Rooney? That always smacked of desperation and no doubt billy boy had more than a hand in that one.

The first objective by the club must be to muddle through and scrape to 20 points by Xmas, you feel the homes games coming up are key here. Anything less and I think resurrecting this mess even in January, if possible, might be too late.

Don Alexander
7 Posted 30/10/2017 at 23:16:20
This will be a highly subjective post because I've not got a clue about facts;

Moshiri with the next appointment of manager will be risking all of his credibility and, from what's been publicised, a lot more than his loose change.

His upbringing, ego, success and reputation will matter to him. He will have an aversion to losing money. To him, failure with his Everton project will not be an option.

I suspect he was won over about Koeman because Arsenal were said to be looking at him to succeed Wenger. I suspect he therefore trusted the opinions of so-called "football gurus" at Arsenal, and I say that because he's bizarrely persisted with Kenwright, our very own self-proclaimed guru. Well Mr Moshiri, I've always believed free advice is bad advice.

I hope, given the experience he's now enduring, that he's now going to dispense with the muppets in our boardroom still masquerading as savvy. I hope he has, or buys from someone reliable, insight into a proper manager and appoints him within the next week or two. The new guy will need the six or seven weeks before January to assess the squad and its needs.

Lastly, I'm sure Moshiri will realise that the time for net spend without guarantee or insurance will arrive in January or else he'll lose a gigantic portion of what he's currently spent to get where he is. Relegation does that to a club Farhad, and I'll tell you that for nowt!

Paul Holmes
8 Posted 30/10/2017 at 00:10:09
I did not think there was a lot between Leicester in 11th place and us, performance-wise on Sunday and to make sure I asked my Spurs mate who watched the game on Sky. He thought Everton dominated the game second half but could not score.

So, after looking at the league table today – two wins and 6 points would take us up to 9th place. Everton can get two wins in the coming weeks.

I think the media and the negativity about the club is making things a lot worse than they really are. If we needed 20 points to get to 9th place I would be worried but two wins ffs – start getting behind the team and things will change.

Peter Larkin
9 Posted 31/10/2017 at 00:30:56
Paul, it's a HUGE problem when not only can we not score (and don't even look like scoring) but we are conceding every single game. Its a fucking huge problem mate.

Can we go down? Of course we can. We play Liverpool twice. So there's minus 6 points already. Still got a lot of big boys to play away, and with our record..

There's been a monster cock-up from top to bottom. Who actually runs the club now? Moshiri or Kenwright?

Anyone see Monday night football? Where they said, Kenwright wants Unsworth and mosh wants a "big name" and people wonder why were fucked. Shambles

Clive Mitchell
10 Posted 31/10/2017 at 00:39:56
Paul, 8 - the problem is we can't score. As we are we'll dominate quite a few games and draw or get beat. You're right about the Leicester game in one way but truth is they beat us easily. Weakness is rapidly found out in the Premier League.

Leicester knew we wouldn't get back from 2-0 down, probably wouldn't get back from 1-0. Burnley did us 1-0. Brighton would've done but for a moment's brain freeze from one of their defenders.

To me, that means we have to play our biggest, toughest and most athletic defenders and midfielders, and play Calvert-Lewin and Niasse up top. Start by protecting 0-0, forget the lightweights – and god knows we've got a lot of them – and be as hard to beat as we can be. Ugly as hell, but we've no choice.

Hope for a fit Barkley, Coleman and McCarthy. Hope for some good spending in January on a striker, a centre back and a left back. Koeman has a lot to answer for. Worst Everton manager since Walker.

Dennis Ng
11 Posted 31/10/2017 at 00:48:47
I hope Moshiri recognize the problem we have now, not just our position and form, but the management that he has not fully changed yet. Like Fran, I want only one name to lead us next, Tuchel. We need a firebrand who will not stand for crap, am flexible with players and tactics (we can't get anyone for another 2 months or more), and has a winning tradition (Mainz and BVB).

Realizing our problem now is one thing. Actually correcting it is another. We'll find out soon if Moshiri understands the depth of the problem.

John Pierce
12 Posted 31/10/2017 at 01:03:47
The stench at board room level is the real reason we are in the mire and will remian there unless Moshiri grows a pair a sweeps the heirarchy at Everton clean.

The fella has invested in the club, he has to see his money is going down the the swanny and the executive management at Everton is not good enough.

We've appointed an amateur, a nobody as DoF and thats why its not worked, nothing wrong with that structure it nneds well known operater who takes charge of all football matters and recommends the hiring and firing of managers, not Bill or whoever.

The chief executive was hired to save money, penny pinch and now we are trying to look forward has no vision on how to capitalise on it.

This muddlied thinking has impacted the recruitment and the hiring of the manager.

The noises coming out of Goodison are of impasse and conflict on the next appointment, a clear structure would have avoided this.

Feels like we are about to implode.

Ernie Baywood
13 Posted 31/10/2017 at 02:45:09
Must admit, I'm struggling with recent criticism of Moshiri and Kenwright in the context of investment.

We spent this summer, supposedly we're building a stadium, and there's no indication that we wouldn't have spent more given the striker names being thrown around as attempted signings.

They appointed a manager who was highly regarded, and paid a lot of money to get him. When it became clear he wasn't up to it they got rid. That's what we wanted, right?

So the issue doesn't seem to be lack of investment or ambition. Of course the Lukaku money may have already been pretty much banked, the stadium may not happen and the transfer rumours could be a smokescreen, but let's hope none of those are the case.

Onto the football operations side of things. It seems like they put a lot of faith in Koeman, and maybe Walsh. The funds they sanctioned were squandered, but you can't blame them for that. They paid a man handsomely to make the football calls that aren't appropriate for them to make... entirely reasonable and I wouldn't want the chairman interfering too much in team building and selection.

That all said, the club needs a revamp. Never again can a manager have the absolute control that Koeman had and be allowed to screw up a club so badly. And I say that with confidence given that Walsh hasn't been held accountable for his part in the performances this year.

If neither Bill nor Moshiri can get involved in the playing side of things (and I don't think they should) then a proper Director of Football is required. Someone who thinks long term, can have input to playing style, can challenge transfer targets, and can provide a long term view of the plan for this team.

Make no mistake, we're in huge trouble this season. Koeman has a lot to answer for.

David Barks
14 Posted 31/10/2017 at 02:59:08
Ernie,

You talk of them spending, yet they agreed to sell Lukaku and Barkley this Summer. It was only due to Barkley refusing to leave that Moshiri and BK lost out on that 35 million. And this was after they had already known Barcelona had bought back Deulofeu, who they allowed Koeman to ship out on loan last season.

They oversaw a Summer that left the club without a single senior striker. They sold our star striker at the start of the window without putting up a fight. They let Kone and Valencia walk. Now we’re left with having to call on Niasse, who they also agreed to sell only to see it fall through at the last second.

Those two sales would have seen us with a net spend of zero, coming off of selling Stones the prior year. This Summer was a disaster only surpassed by the disaster that is the season to date. If you don’t blame those running the show, what exactly is it that they do?

Alan J Thompson
15 Posted 31/10/2017 at 04:25:12
So, we are not scoring goals, a blind man can see that. If we get 6 points we'll be ninth! What, are all the other teams going to stop playing!?! We've beaten only Stoke and Bournemouth who are in the same boat as we are.

If we are lucky we might not be too far behind if/when we bring in a semi competent striker in January because we won't be signing any world class strikers. Sanchez; dream on!

Any player with enough skill to beat the man in front of him has been sold or listed for sale. Any new manager or players will need time to settle in so, for me, Unsworth is our best bet of avoiding relegation. Two million to Palace for Allardyce, haven't we wasted enough money? And for those who say, the season is only 10 games old, we only play 38 so at that rate, Championship here we come!

How do we avoid it? Head down, work hard, win ugly and/or chance the kids, it's all we've got at the moment.

Peter Larkin
16 Posted 31/10/2017 at 06:52:59
Looks like Dyche is the next gaffer. Don't know what to make of it to be honest. If we play the same shite safe football as Moyes, I think I may give up on football.
Denver Daniels
17 Posted 31/10/2017 at 07:17:53
Peter, please no. I'd rather have Dick van Dyke.
Daniel Lim
18 Posted 31/10/2017 at 07:41:32
Peter (#9),

Yes we need to play the RS twice. Worst case scenario it's ZERO point. Why MINUS six?

Stan Schofield
19 Posted 31/10/2017 at 10:15:00
It still amazes me how people are influenced by so-called 'pundits'. A big example at the moment is the idea that Kenwright wants Unsworth, but Moshiri wants someone 'bigger'. This might or might not be true. The point is, it's put out by the media, including the 'pundits', giving an impression of disorder at board level.

There's a difference between reality and perception of reality. The media deals largely with the latter. I think many on TW need to get a grip, and not confuse the two.

Ernie Baywood
20 Posted 31/10/2017 at 10:53:48
David, but the point I'm making its that we did spend. We did sign players. There's good evidence that we wanted to spend substantially more on some major signings. How many players could we sign in one summer? That was Bill and Mosh signing the cheques – they backed their manager.

I don't buy that we let Lukaku go without a fight. We got somewhere around £90M for a player who had made it very clear he wanted out for a number of years. Plenty of our support thought he was worth much less.

We all know the money was misspent. We all know that holding the 19 shirt for Costa and banking on Giroud is embarrassing when we don't have a single viable option up front or a backup plan. We know that you can't play multiple Number 10s.

But whose fault is that? Is it Moshiri's job to identify transfer targets? Kenwright's job to scout the Championship?

Their job is to employ appropriately experienced and skilled people and then hold them to account for their performance. Now neither Koeman nor Walsh got me too excited, but their acquisition certainly demonstrated some ambition. Top dollar to poach a manager with a big reputation and they similarly poached 'the man who identified Kante'.

Koeman was held to account quite quickly for his disastrous performance. I'm not sure how Walsh has survived unless his responsibilities were different to what we have been led to believe.

Kenwright has a history of failing this club but I don't see how we can criticise he and Moshiri in this instance. Would many people have done anything different in their position?

Ernie Baywood
21 Posted 31/10/2017 at 10:56:25
Stan, to add to that most seem to put the signing of Rooney with Bill. From memory it was the media that started the Rooney stories (regularly, for years) and Ronald that said he would have him if it was an option.
Len Hawkins
22 Posted 31/10/2017 at 10:59:16
I spent a lot of time in Germany in the 60s and 70s I used to go to watch Borrussia Monchengladbach whilst there but of course Everton when at home but that was 50 years ago; the Catt is dead, Long live the Catt.

Now I couldn't tell who from the Bundesliga could take over here and mould a technically sound team to march through the Premier League playing attractive hard to beat successful football.

Just as I for the life of me could not pick a manager from the Premier League who I think could shake this club back to life and save it from the doom that is apparently the common consensus future for Everton FC.

Unsworth has not had a week yet and he is being hung out to dry for not turning around the worst Everton team in living memory. Perhaps a few more days before he is marched to the centre spot blindfolded and shot eh??

I'm surprised someone has not come up with that perennial Lottery Winner Woy Hodgson who lurches from one club to another picking up £millions in compensation with every job.

Yes, I am in agreement that Kenwright and Moshiri and the other non-entities on the board are the real reason behind the total shambles that the club is in at the moment. So Mr Moshiri either buy the extra shares and lead the club or hand back some shares so bumbling Billy can cry us into the Championship. Lead that is the thing Everton needs a leader be it in the boardroom on the training ground or on the pitch. A leader someone who can shake this club out of this bloody Sleepwalk to oblivion.

To all of you about to go and plunder Rifkin's scrap yard 'lead' as in leed not 'lead' as in LED.

Phil Walling
23 Posted 31/10/2017 at 11:06:34
Latest Sky Sports News saying 'Everton have confirmed they are interested in Dyche and will use the forthcoming International break to finalise their thinking.'

So no urgency there, it seems!

Mike Doyle
24 Posted 31/10/2017 at 11:27:36
Spot on Stan (#5). I work with a few Spurs fans – who are not deluded.

Their attitude is that they are enjoying the ride with Poch in charge for as long as it lasts. When the Poch era ends they expect to return to their traditional place (finishing between 5th & 10th place) – in a group that includes us and our friends across the park.

The only thing that will change the outlook for any club is a game-changing injection of cash of Man City & Chelsea proportions.

Ernie Baywood
25 Posted 31/10/2017 at 11:28:56
Len, completely agree this club needs a shake up.

So we bring in Dyche. What then? We back him and he goes and signs a load of players to fit his vision. We hold a firesale on the Koeman players who don't fit the model.

Then performances drop and we go and get Tuchel. Then repeat the same process.

It's madness isn't it? It feels like we had a manager in Moyes who earned a lot of control and then every manager since has just inherited the same level of responsibility.

I suspect many clubs do the same but that doesn't make it right. We're always one bad manager from disaster. It doesn't really matter how much long term planning is happening elsewhere in the club if that remains true - what point is a new stadium if PL survival isn't guaranteed?

How about we have a Director of Football (not a scout with a silly job title)? The club agrees what we want to be and hires a coach who fits our requirements. The DoF is providing the leadership by ensuring the coach is aligned to our club's stated aims. The coach is responsible for leading a team that fits those aims. The DoF is enough of a football person to challenge what the coach is doing. Player identification becomes a shared responsibility. It's just one idea.

That's the type of thing I'd like to see Moshiri focusing on. Get consultants in to look at every successful club and how they operate. What works and what doesn't? Because I find it hard to believe that putting this much responsibility on a manager is the best way to run a club.

Bobby Thomas
26 Posted 31/10/2017 at 11:49:09
There has been too much change too quickly and we are paying the price. Change at board level, a director of football installed, huge turnover in playing staff.

From what you hear and read there appears to be confusion at the club about who is actually in charge and makes decisions at board level, who has the say on the new gaffer, negotiates transfers, who identifies players and then signs them (coach/manager or DoF) and where the responsibilities of the coach/manager and Dof begin and end. You hear its difficult to know who is in charge, and where.

Currently, this has the smell of the second half of the Johnson era. Remember when we had no Chief Exec for ages? Apparently it was just very difficult to get a decision out of anyone on a day to day basis.

There are all these problems, coupled with a squad that is all over the place and has well documented failings due to gross mis-management on the recruitment side.

I feel, under the circumstances, it is best to go with a risk free appointment, and get a "gaffer" in to call the shots, on recruitment as well, till the end of the season. We can take it from there and, if we approach the end of the season from a position of safety, begin to think long term in relation to a manager/coach and the structure they want any manager/coach and DoF to work under. And this time get it right.

As things stand, I feel dropping a manager working outside the country into this structure could cook our goose as things are clearly not right all over.

Despite the complacency of some on here who believe that we will be absolutely fine and finish 7 - 10th no problem, I actually feel that the make up of this squad means we have massive trouble written all over us. Its all wrong and there's no quick fix.

I do think we can get tighter and more organised. But the plain fact is we have a mediocre back 4. We cannot push high, we get killed. Going forward, we are all aware of the lack of options, variety and threat. We cant go long, there's no one to hit. There's no one to run the channels. There's no out ball. How the hell do you get any points away from home with that mix?

The squad, as it stands, is mid-table at best (perhaps I'm being generous). Confidence is on the floor and barely anyone apart from the keeper is putting in performances that say "play me". We need a gaffer who knows the drill. We need organisation, consistency in selection, and a defined way of playing, and quickly.

Jim Lloyd
27 Posted 31/10/2017 at 11:51:28
The process of altering the set up at EFC is a great talking point and we're only likely to get the change once Kenwright is shown the door.

It's right that a club is only one bad manager away from disaster, but how far that club is depends on the actions of the manager and the quality of the players.

In my view, we are in the relegation mire; and until we get a manager on a permanent basis; who can buy players in January to bolster the team in vital areas, we're going to stay in this position.

Proposing how we should change, is a luxury I don't think we can afford just now. Maybe we are going to undergo a change in structure, but for now, we have a target and that's to avoid relegation. All the rest, comes after that.

Danny Broderick
28 Posted 31/10/2017 at 12:45:43
Here's a link to Andy Gray, Sam Allardyce and Richard Keys discussing Everton, how Premier League scouting works and how to avoid relegation. I found it really interesting.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdNwt5wIue8

Ciaran O'Brien
29 Posted 31/10/2017 at 12:47:18
If we get relegated. It will be the end of Everton FC. Moshiri will pull out, Kenwright will remain, new stadium will be scrapped and we will struggle to get out of the championship. We would go like Leeds, Forest, the two Sheffield’s, Villa, Sunderland, Blackburn etc.
We must stay in the Premier League to move forward.

People say they don’t want Dyche or Big Sam because of long ball football and we are Everton and the “School of Science”. But excuse me, what has everyone been watching us play like for 3 years now. Our football is shite. We have been playing long balls up to Lukaku, Naismith and Calvert Lewin for ages now. The last time we played good, fast exciting football was in the first half of Martinez’s first season.

Martinez was right in that we needed 7 new players at the start of his second season. It was quite clear Baines and Jags were in decline but the board failed him. All we added that summer was an old Eto’o who was free and Besic for a mere 4million of the back of one game in the World Cup. Deulofeu, Barry and Lukaku were already there from last season. That is where I think the rot started.

Koeman made it worse with his changing tactics and dire football plus his alienation of Barkley, Niasse and Mirallas. His and Walsh’s signings have been utter Shite except for Pickford, Gueye and Rooney.

Sean Dyche or Big Sam are what we need because we are Leeking goals at an alarming rate and these two prioratise clean sheets. Plus they don’t speak like college professors or philophosers with stupid jargon like so many other coaches.
Simeone would be my foreign choice but he won’t come now so why not go for the English version(s).
We need to get back to basics and have a clear plan.
If we don’t do this soon, our top flight status will be critically under threat.

Ray Jacques
30 Posted 31/10/2017 at 12:49:24
What is all this 6 points off 9th place about. We are only 6 points behind agreed, but to get to 9th we would have to win our next two games with no teams above us picking up any points, so it doesn't wash.

We are in the relegation zone, that is our true and correct position.

We don't score goals.
We haven't kept a clean sheet since the opening day of the season.
We haven't won away from home in 10 months.
Our home form which was a strength has no evaporated.
We do not have a manager.
We have no proven/recognised premier league rated striker.

We are in a relegation battle and it's going to be a struggle all season.

Apologies if this is negative but FFS its the truth!!!

Oliver Brunel
31 Posted 31/10/2017 at 12:57:07
Ernie(25) I've said it a hundred times; the powers that be havent a clue about football but are making all the decisions. They will be choosing our next manager despite plain incompetence. Moshiri is a businessman (I don't know if USM is legitimate money or if they have stolen their wealth ) but he is successful. What he should be doing is speaking to football tacticians (i.e Bielsa, Simeone) and if they don't want the job then employ them as consultants. He needs to get rid of the incompetent backroom staff aswell, from coaching to ticketing. Get consultants in in all key areas. I fear Kenwright is propping up the ancien regime. I was criticised yesterday for questioning the commitment of some of our so called 'stalwarts' in fact I was called 'shameful' for saying Sigurdson doesnt care. Shameful is not giving 100% effort when you are paid a ridiculous amount of money, shameful is Kenwright pocketing millions (call it asset stripping) by selling all the best players on a regular basis. Shameful is happy clapping whilst we stagger from catastrophe to catastrophe. Dyche for christs sake...that is shameful.
Sam Hoare
32 Posted 31/10/2017 at 12:58:37
Dyche is surely just another Moyes no? Will probably get us organised and harder to beat but it will be attritional.

I liked Moyes but it seems alot of people who didn't are now calling for Dyche which I find hard to understand?

Personally I still have some interest in Unsworth. His U23 team played genuinely good, sensible football and I have seen some signs of him eliciting better stuff from the first team. I hope he is given at least a month to see what he can do rather than turfed out after barely a week and 3 very tough away games.

Danny Broderick
33 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:03:04
I think we all agree unanimously that we cannot keep clean sheets, and we are struggling to score goals. The big question is can Unsworth correct this? I think he probably has until sunday to convince us all that he can. My honest opinion is that I have seen signs of improvement, but it's fair to say that the jury is still out. He should use thursday to keep working on the shape of the team, but the big game is sunday against Watford.

I think that Unsie can turn this around. The reason I am saying this is because I have already seen improvements, yet he has had barely any time to work with the team on the training ground. He is also surrounded by good ex-Everton pros who have been in this situation before, and know what is required to turn it around (Ferguson, Ebbrell and obviously Big Joe, as well as himself).

The key thing for me is team shape, and this needs working on on the training ground, but it is something that Joe Royle's teams were particularly good at. I think we have no option but to play 4-4-2, due to the lack of goals in the team. He probably has tuesday / wednesday to get his ideas across to the players, in this respect.

I would keep Rooney and DCL up front, for the sole reason that, if you take Rooney out of the team, who is going to score the goals? Unsie needs to get Rooney and DCL gelling together - they shouldn't be any more than about 15/20 yards apart at any point. He needs to stop Rooney coming deep to look for the ball. Do this, and Rooney may score 15 invaluable goals - he already has 4. Hopefully DCL can start scoring a few, and he will at least try to hold the ball up a bit.

The defence needs to be drilled again as a unit. Let's get a consistent back 4 and then see if we can tighten it up.

In midfield, we need legs, quality and aggression. I'd probably play Tom Davies on the right, Vlasic on the left, and I would go with Gueye and Beni in centre mid.

Lennon, Schneiderlin, Niasse, Mirallas etc can all play a part off the bench, or if they play their way back in. But we need Dogs of War now, which is why I am so happy that Unsie has the team he has around him. We then need a couple of strikers in January.

We can get out of this - but we need a result sooner rather than later. We also need no more recruitment fuck ups. The board should be getting the funds ready now, so that Unsie (or whoever) have £30 / £40 million available to bring in a couple of strikers in January.

Oliver Brunel
34 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:34:17
I don't think Rooney should have been bought but the fact is that only he and Niasse have scored goals therefore at least one of these needs to be in the team. If they had any decent scouts they would hve got a Lukaku replacement from a European League for about 20-30 Million. Instead they allowed a Dutch tulip picker to spunk the money on garbage.
Stan Schofield
35 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:37:48
I can't see the fuss being expressed about the prospect of hiring Dyche, or Allardyce, or having Unsworth as manager. Each of them can organise a football team in a no-nonesense way, in all likelihood sufficient to get us to mid-table or a bit above, which seems to fit our current financial resources and status.

Calling for an 'elite' manager, paid over £6M/year, is no guarantee of achieving anything more, and is certainly costly, with the risk that he's no more successful then the previous two incumbents.

I would strongly support hiring an 'elite' manager like Tuchel only if our financial resources were commensurate with getting to a status of being an 'elite' side and sustaining it. But unless that happens, I can't see the point, other than Moshiri using it as image enhancement, which in itself unfortunately doesn't win football matches.

So I'd go with Unsworth for the moment. He needs time, just as many people were saying that Koeman needed time, and just as any new manager would need to steady the ship and get us winning games.

Geoff Lambert
36 Posted 31/10/2017 at 13:44:42
There are 87 points to play for if and its a big IF we can get the team playing well The European places are not out of reach.

Stranger things have happened.

COYB

Bobby Thomas
37 Posted 31/10/2017 at 16:16:57
Danny #33

Rooney's positional ill discipline is really beginning to get on my nerves. It doesn't help, especially when he abandons where ever he is supposed to be playing and drops in mid and starts giving the ball away. Rooney is not and cannot be a midfielder. He can't adapt his game enough. Some of the shocking giveaways are evidence of that.

Dave Abrahams
39 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:18:44
Ernie (20-21), none of us know for sure who was responsible for signing each individual player, but didn't those who did get together and tell each other who they were signing, I mean three no.10's, how did that happen, they were all signed at different times. I think the club should explain how that occurred, just beyond belief.
Paul Johnson
40 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:38:25
Ciarán @29 take it you had a bad day at the office and that you have a direct line to our major shareholder. God help us all
Reading through ToffeeWeb this week I get the impression that (this is not a fact just my assumption) given the chance that no one would find out a good few ToffeeWebbers would put money on Everton being relegated.
Things are not great at the moment but the club has acted decisively in sacking Koeman (80% voted for this on ToffeeWeb) they are now going to employ a new manager who has the job of turning things around.
I don’t believe our squad is as bad as painted. We miss Lukaku but if we can can play a settled line up including back four then things will improve.
If we are going to give Unsy a chance then he has to pull his head out of the under 23 squad and start managing some of the senior squad instead of ignoring it. These players don’t become shit by putting on an Everton shirt. Use them and there experience. And keep Niasse in the line up. We will be ok.
John Pierce
41 Posted 31/10/2017 at 21:42:06
Bobby,

Its very easy to knock Rooney. He is the least of the issues that are undermining the club at the moment.

As part of a squad collective who are hugely underperforming he has run the furthest, scored the most goals and the ill discipline you refer to, manifests itself in the only player brave enough to get on the ball and try something. He never hides, regardless of the errors you highlight and there are plenty.

He is contributing, and compare that to others; Schniederlin & Sigurdsson for example, whose output has been negligible.

Perhaps a more forensic eye on those players might result in a more rounded opinion of Rooney?

Both players are in the prime years, cost huge sums and look like they’re the veteran player, not your scapegoat Rooney.

Rooney is a signing of vanity I grant you but we’ve looked no better without him in the side.

Its a very rough moment we find ourselves in but there are plenty of more worthy candidates in that squad to target than Rooney.

Neil Carter
42 Posted 01/11/2017 at 20:15:46
John

There is no doubt Rooney is trying but he's proving he's past it.
And there lies one of the major problems at the club- all this living in the past/If you know your history- we do- but stop going on about it and concentrate on now.
Time to change if we want to survive in the top division.

Dale Rose
43 Posted 08/11/2017 at 12:53:05
This is all very reminiscent of the Donald Rumsfeldt speech about unknown unknowns. There are posters on here, some very clever people over complicating the facts and taking a leaf out of Donald's speech. The facts of the matter are quite simple.

We sold our goal machine in the summer and didnt buy another.

We hired a manager with the people skills of a man eating tiger. Who succeed or fail was walking away with enough money to set him up for life.

We paid far too much money for a bunch of no marks, who couldn't give a shit about the club.

The result, we have had to hire a temporary manager who has inherited all this crap. He has done a great job trying to tune this team and is getting there. He know his team and the youngsters who are getting better every week.

There is nothing that can be done before January to get another striker and strengthen the back line. So we have to go with what we have. The team and club will now have to display something called character, dig in and become the dogs of war. Its not pretty but its all we have. There is no manager who can turn a team around in this situation. I've said time and time again, all of these alleged quality managers can only function with a bucket of money, in their own salaries and buying players that are out of the reach of most clubs.

Its no good wishing, its time for action. We know what has to be done, lets get behind the club and do it.

Steve Ferns
44 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:01:47
I agree Dale. I doubt Moshiri wants to sell off Klaassen, Sigurdsson, Sandro and Rooney for knockdown prices and then gamble on new players. That's not how he envisaged his investment going.

He will want a new manager to tell him he can get the team working, and he might sell just one or two to balance the team, reduce the wage bill and justify the big transfer fee for the striker we need.

Buying players is just a shortcut to the top, and that is if you buy the right players. A great coach should be able to develop great young players into great players and then there is no need to spend another £150m in January.

Sam Hoare
45 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:15:48
If we were to sell two players in January, who would everyone choose? Be happy to shift Mirallas and Scheniderlin myself for... £30m (being quite optimistic!).
Dennis Stevens
46 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:19:11
Hear! Hear! Dale #43
Steve Ferns
47 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:25:47
I'd sell Sigurdsson providing we could get more than £30m for him and Klaassen if we can get more than £15m for him.
Gordon Crawford
48 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:32:24
Sorry Steve but to able to developer great young players, you need to have them in the first place. How many great young players do we have at finch farm?
We have good youngsters but not great.
Steve Ferns
49 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:34:54
Yeah, you're right Gordon, if only we had SIX youngsters who just won the world cup and another highly rated 18 year old in the first team. If only we had spent over £15m on signing the best young players we could find this summer.
Oliver Brunel
50 Posted 08/11/2017 at 13:43:30
I have always wanted Bielsa but I admit he's been poor at Lille.

I would go for Fonseca. We then need to offload the Sigurdsson, Mirallas, Schneiderlin (you can't have coasters at the club). The old guard need retiring: Baines etc.

Then give the new guy money to spend but ffs we need to get Grievious (Walsh) and The Emperor Palpatine (Kenwright) and Elstone away from the Death Star.

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