Barkley undergoes surgery on injured groin

Wednesday 19 July 2017  211 Comments  [Jump to last]
Double injury update

Ross Barkley looks set to miss the start of the new Premier League season following an operation to correct a groin problem while Ramiro Funes Mori could miss the majority of the new season.

Eyebrows were raised when Barkley was left out of the squads that travelled to Tanzania and the Netherlands this month but it appears as though reports of his groin injury were correct.

Reports say that the midfielder will be out for around four weeks as speculation over his future continues to swirl.

Tottenham Hotspur continue to be linked with a move for Barkley but have been put off thus far by Everton's valuation of the player.

Chelsea and Manchester United are said by parts of the media to be interested in challenging Spurs for his signature while the Daily Mail (together with local Liverpool media) have contested assertions made in The Mirror that Barkley is demanding wages of £150,000 a week.

Meanwhile, Funes Mori could be out for the rest of the year following a setback in his recovery from a knee injury.

The Argentine made an aborted return to training earlier this month where it appears as though he suffered a relapse of the problem that required surgery earlier this year.

Paul Joyce of The Times has suggested that Funes Mori will be out for between six to nine months after going under the knife for a second time.  


Reader Comments (211)

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Neil Thomas
1 Posted 19/07/2017 at 19:26:29
So Barkley is out for start of season – does anyone think this might put a stop to any concrete bid from Spurs?
Ben Howard
2 Posted 19/07/2017 at 19:28:04
Neil call me cynical but I can't believe he's actually injured.
Tom Hadley
3 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:04:19
Given Ross's lack of interest in signing a new contract, I hope this doesn't stop us selling him in this window while we can still get a half-decent fee.
Chris Williams
4 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:06:45
Besic did okay tonight at centre-half and we may need him with Funes Mori missing for 6-9 months too.
Neil Thomas
5 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:07:57
Great – that's another £10m off his transfer fee.
Brian Williams
6 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:13:56
Wonder what the conspiracy theorists will come up with now?
Andy Meighan
7 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:14:43
Chris (#2) – Besic can't play in midfield never mind centre-back.
Derek Knox
8 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:15:34
The backroom staff shouldn't have kicked him that hard, if he didn't want to sign that contract. :-)
Tony Abrahams
9 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:29:17
He failed his medical with Spurs, Brian? Very unprofessional this though considering he's had this problem since the end of last season, even if it does seem minor.
Frank Wade
10 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:30:27
I hope Ross comes to his senses and signs his new contract. Tottenham hardly likely to risk signing him now that he is injured.

They would be paying top money for a player who misses pre-season at a new club and first 8 to 10 matches, not worth it considering he only has 11 months left on his contract. Groins can be slow to heal.

Paul Hughes
11 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:36:07
Let's hope they give him some brain surgery at the same time.
Gordon White
12 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:42:42
I came to the conclusion 12 months ago that, despite their skill and potential, the sooner Lukaku and Barkley left the club, the better (for different reasons). If I'm honest, I didn't want it to happen. But, my head knew it would be necessary.

A couple of years ago, I would have been really anxious at the prospect of losing two such talented players. But now, I'm not as bothered.

And the whole situation has changed with Everton. No longer the poor relations with the rich history. As has been said on here before, no one is bigger than the club. And as I've previously said, the sooner the better. COYBS

Brian Williams
13 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:46:13
If he's out for a month, it would only leave a couple of weeks until the window closes for him to move.

I can see him seeing out his last year and then negotiating his own signing-on fee with another club this time next year.

Ben Pullen
14 Posted 19/07/2017 at 20:48:32
What is really up with Ross Barkley, other than this groin problem? Does anybody anywhere have any insight into why he has not signed a new contract and wants to move on to pastures new?

Does he really not get on with Koeman's constructive criticism in the public domain, and would like to find another manager who will call him 'phenomenal' all the time?

Does he think the reason he has been frozen out from England, is from plying his trade with his boyhood club and not with the ‘so called' Big 6?

Hi best mate John Stones did not play in the Euro's for England, but then moved to Man City and despite less regular club playing time, is back in the fold.

Does he think he needs to show Southgate that he can play with Alli and Kane in the same team week in week out, to get back in the England setup?

Did he see Romelu Lukaku get offered £150k per week in a bumper contract, and think he deserves the same?

Does he not want to stay in Liverpool, after being punched in the face after a night out?

Does he want to wait to sign a new contract, later on in the transfer window, after we have done some good business and shown our ambition in the transfer market? Here's hoping..

I want him to stay, he's inconsistent for sure and incredibly frustrating sometimes, but he excites me and is one of the players I root for every game because he is blue through and through (well was?) and can turn a game on its head in an instant; that cross for Rom vs Leicester at home last season was the cross of the season in my view.

Gordon White
15 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:02:19
Brian (#13) you may be right. The important point is – it doesn't matter any more. Barkley is a side show. There are bigger things happening at EFC.

I admit it's ironic that just as the revolution has started, it's the time he's chosen to up sticks. But it doesn't matter. Koeman's not convinced about him. And neither are a lot of us.

Chris Gould
16 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:10:49
If he doesn't move on in this window, then he'll be in a tricky situation.

I imagine it will be a simple option of sign the new contract or play with the U23s until you come to your senses and sign it. Sounds harsh but tough shit. If Ross loves Everton like he says he does, then the last thing he should want is for us to lose out on £30-40 million.

Losing him for nought really is unacceptable. To have trained and nurtured him since he was 11 years old and then lose him for nothing cannot be allowed to happen.

I still think he will go this window.

Mike Gaynes
17 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:18:53
Startling news. So much for all the comments about how he'd stayed home because he was sulking or being pushed out the doors.

I predict now he'll be with us until January. Who knows, maybe some playing time next to Klaassen will make the lights go on.

Martin Mason
18 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:23:10
And those amateurs at Chelsea and Man Utd are also interested in buying Ross? Do they know nothing about football? :-)

The perfect outcome for me is that he stays at Everton and slots beautifully into a team that now complements his massive skills. Ross could be a key player for us in this new set up and score and assist in goals as I believe he has the talent to do.

Tony Hill
19 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:29:20
Martin Mason, exactly my hope. I still think Rooney may be a crucial figure for him too.
Minik Hansen
20 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:47:32
Derek (#8) & Paul (#11) – got me laughing in an airport while reading through the comments. Top.
Len Hawkins
21 Posted 19/07/2017 at 21:55:25
Brian (#6),

Groin strain, my jacksie... he probably had both legs down one leg of his Y-fronts.

Stephen Scofield
22 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:00:36
Psychic surgery? Surely he's not really injured. If so, he's never going to pass a medical at any other club.

Strange one this.

Ian Pilkington
23 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:02:21
Martin Mason @18, I completely agree.

I believe Ross could be revitalised by the influence of Rooney and without the requirement of having to comply with the one-dimensional tactic of feeding Lukaku.

Trevor Peers
24 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:11:40
Oh dear! We'll not receive a penny for Ross now. That injury could also seriously scupper the Sigurdsson deal.

Meanwhile, it will be another season of pitiful debate, to see if Barkley fulfills his huge potential or not, and no doubt the manager will be to blame if he doesn't.

Just hope the speculation doesn't affect the morale of the whole team as it seemed to last season.

Will Mabon
25 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:12:41
"Wonder what the conspiracy theorists will come up with now?"

Erm... Barkley has required the surgery for nine months but Koeman forced him to play through it... then blamed him for reduced pressing...?

Brian Williams
26 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:24:01
Yep, that's a good one, Will.
Andrew James
27 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:42:53
Ian @ 23

That's unfair on Lukaku. His position was very clear. He happened to be a professional sportsman who was good at striking the ball from close distance, occasionally driving past a despairing defender or offering a mediocre range of flicks that sometimes might work. Unfortunately for him, the only place he could utilise these assets was in a team sport.

So Lukaku made the big sacrifice to wear the same colour shirt as 9 other far inferior sportsmen and be a footballer... sorry, 10-yard striker. He was stunned to learn that there were players tackling, heading, chasing about, passing and using trickery. He soon decided these lesser players in the team he happened to be registered to should use their confusing, overly excessive and time-consuming skills to eventually give him the ball.

He wrote down the co-ordinates of exactly where on the pitch he expected the ball to come to him and this soon became the focus of the pre-match talk. When he discovered it was not legal for a team mate to pick the ball up and then roll it to his feet, he frustratingly requested that they kick it but, if it was not the exact pace and spin and to the co-ordinates he required, there would be hell to pay.

He was also disgusted to learn that the other lesser players in the team could not activate a vortex through which the ball would pass thus circumnavigating the pesky opposition players.

Tony Dove
28 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:45:33
Martin @18 and Ian @23 – I totally agree. Ross is a prime asset and only 23 years old.

As for everything else, people are too easily being carried away by the fact we are spending money. Up to now that is simply the Lukaku receipts which should have been at least £20 million more.

Hopefully Koeman's new recruits will be a better bunch than last year.

Hugh Jenkins
29 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:48:07
Haven't read all the posts, but, as far as I am concerned, that's the end of any move for Ross in this window!

How could he pass a medical anywhere, whilst recovering from surgery?

Andy Crooks
30 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:52:04
Hope he gets fit soon... hope he stays.
Colin Glassar
31 Posted 19/07/2017 at 22:57:15
The good news is, they found his brain in his groin! Get well soon Ross.
Bobby Thomas
32 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:04:20
Ross Barkley would have known about any interest from other clubs long ago and he is already gone. It's just a matter of where and how much.
Lewis Barclay
33 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:04:50
I'd rather pay Ross £150k a week than pay the same to Sigurdsson and £50m!
Colin Glassar
34 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:09:08
Ditto, Lewis.
Trevor Peers
35 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:29:17
One thing is certain: Barkley will never sign a new contract with Everton now.

With no transfer fee involved, Ross and his agent will cash in massively when he eventually leaves, his agent will make sure of that.

Jerome Shields
36 Posted 19/07/2017 at 23:56:11
Koeman has been on Barkley's case all last season. Barkley has put it up to him, by not signing a contract. Unfortunately, he has developed this groin problem.

Is Koeman going to give him the treatment he has given to other players he doesn't favour? They normally do better without him at other clubs.

Koeman has made a lot of signings, but he has not proved he can manage and progress Everton. He definitely didn't last season. Is he capable of changing?

Gavin Johnson
37 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:07:35
At this rate, he'll be seeing out his contract. Ross doesn't seem to have much going on upstairs, has been poorly advised and has no perception of how he will be seen by Everton supporters long after he's hung up his boots.

Matt Muzi
38 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:11:12
I think we can forget about getting a penny for Barkley. No-one is going to sign him this window now. He clearly isn't going to sign a new contract, so I predict he'll go on a free at the end of the season.

I may be wrong but, as he's over 23, doesn't that mean we won't get any compensation either?

Clive Mitchell
39 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:18:20
Ben (#14) – what a great post, perfect summary of the puzzle.

If Everton fail to keep Ross by failing to offer him what they offer Sigurdsson, it'll be the worst piece of business ever.

Kieran Kinsella
40 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:33:42
I think Levy is eyeing a Pienaar-style bargain. Spurs want him but not at top dollar. I can see this dragging to Christmas and an £8 million deal.
James Watts
41 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:38:31
Hang on, guys. Am I missing something? We are at July 20 no? 4 weeks take us to mid August and as it's only a 4 week absence he'll be fit before the close of the window so can still pass a medical.

I always felt he wouldn't leave us until near deadline day as we know Levy won't pay top dollar and would leave it as long as possible... so what has really changed?

James Watts
42 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:47:56
Disagree, Clive (#39).

Ross might have 'potential' but is far too inconsistent to warrant a huge wage like that. Sigurdsson is not worth £50m agreed but as far as wages go, hes worth more than Barkley because he is currently a better overall player and he will deliver more on a consistent basis.

Although, to be fair, hasn't Barkley denied that he's asked for that much anyway? It's all fun and games, eh?

Shaun Wilson
43 Posted 20/07/2017 at 00:53:01
Andrew (#27)...

Classic!

David Tennant
44 Posted 20/07/2017 at 02:28:09
I love him. I wish he would stay but I think he's gone and, to be honest, it might be the best thing for everybody. it might re-ignite his career and I can see him being superb.

For us, it would shift focus to new players. He's given us 7 good years. Good luck to him.

Ernie Baywood
45 Posted 20/07/2017 at 03:44:43
I'm not a medical professional but is this normal?

Finish the season, rest for two months, light jog for the cameras, groin surgery.

James Watts
46 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:04:32
Ernie, maybe he just had a sprint and it went while trying to impress Spurs scouts?

Ross and sprinting don't normally go together so maybe his groin got confused as it has never really been needed before?

Jay Harris
47 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:18:00
Not effective enough to be a midfield player. Doesn't score enough goals to be a forward.

I've always maintained – despite all the hoop-la – that Ross and Rom were the players holding the club back.

Alan J Thompson
48 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:18:40
"Sign or we'll sell you" – constructive criticism?
Matt Traynor
49 Posted 20/07/2017 at 04:59:22
So one of the papers today is going to be running a story that Man Utd are after him and that Chelsea are also interested.

Presumably as an English make-weight?

Mark Andersson
50 Posted 20/07/2017 at 05:59:06
If Ross goes, then it's a sad day for all blue fans. Whatever the reasons behind him not signing we may never know.

Good luck to the lad, what ever happens. If any of the top 6 buy's him, they won't be paying much. He will be a bench warmer, impact sub?? Nope – they will require his service to stop us getting the best from him thus stopping us reaching top 4...

See you in a few years, when you come back and Everton are still also-rans –best of the rest and all that.

Ajay Gopal
51 Posted 20/07/2017 at 06:04:12
I would love it if Ross were to re-sign for Everton, that way, he gets a chance to resurrect his career with us, and if he does not meet Koeman's expectations, I would loan him out or sell him in the December window. W

ouldn't it be amazing to see an Everton team with Rooney, Baines, Barkley, Davies, Kenny and Dowell? With Pickford, Keane, Williams, Gana and Sandro supporting this 'Blue core'?

Hugh Jenkins
52 Posted 20/07/2017 at 06:20:06
Martin (#18) & Ian (#23), I know what you mean.

However, the reverse side of that coin is – Rooney moved and won a massive amount of kudos and loads of trophies – then came back. I can do the same!

The problem is, Ross, talented though he is, does not have Rooney's talent and may move to become a bit-part player elsewhere.

What Rooney can influence him to do is stay and deliver his potential to his home-town club.

I fear, however, that Ross will only see the glamorous side of leaving.

Kunal Desai
53 Posted 20/07/2017 at 07:13:12
He can still be transferred to another club despite the injury. Rooney broke his metatarsal in the Euros and was due to miss the start of the season; that didn't stop Man Utd buying him.
Kenny Smith
54 Posted 20/07/2017 at 07:33:20
Ross needs to go. This can't be allowed drag on till January so let Levy take him in the cheap.

I don't believe for one second Everton value him at £50 million. We've all seen him and he's never worth anything like that. The club probably value him a lot less but know Levy is a tight arse and loves to think he's had a bargain. I would take the first serious offer which I think will come in the last day of the window from Spurs.

He needs to leave before this turns poisonous because, if we don't get the results early on despite out fixtures, the finger will be pointed at him and his effect on the dressing room whether he plays or not.

This is not a Rooney situation in terms of us desperate to hang on to our local hero because Ross is never going to reach the heights we all knew Wayne would. The sooner he goes the better, he cost us nothing so let's not die in a ditch over this issue.

David Ellis
55 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:21:49
I do hope we sell him this window... or he signs a new contract. The worst case scenario is to allow his contract to run down.
Eddie Dunn
56 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:40:29
Some interesting and amusing comments on here, but I would try and keep him (although we may end up letting him go on the cheap in January while he still has some value). However, if the new formation with the new players struggles to gel/fails to increase productivity, then we may be looking at Ross to bring something special to the table.

It is true that, for whatever reason, he has had a few off games, and there seems to be a problem between him and Koeman but, on the whole, he performed to a good standard last season.

If we do land Sigurdsson, I would still keep Barkley. Other top teams don't sell just because they buy; we need a squad.

Alex Carry
57 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:50:02
If I was Koeman and I had a player that wouldn't commit to signing a contract to become a part of his plan in the long run, I would drop him completely and wouldn't even have him play with the U23s.

There's no point developing a player any further if he will probably leave and you have other players that you could give his spot to. You're either with us or you're not – if Ross thinks the grass is greener somewhere else, than let him go.

Liam Reilly
58 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:50:59
I can't see Koeman accepting him into his squad if the contract remains unsigned.

6 months on the bench or in the U23s won't help him in a World Cup year.

Go now or sign, but don't let this drag on to Jim White Day.

Mark Tanton
59 Posted 20/07/2017 at 08:58:04
I think Ross will get the Niasse treatment now, and go for peanuts next summer.
Steve Bingham
60 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:06:00
He will sign a new contract before Christmas.
Jer Kiernan
61 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:28:07
You couldn't write this stuff if you tried – what a twist in the tale!

I have been frustrated with the whole Ross situation and was happy to see him go for the right money (£40-50 mil) but I think some of the comments on here are a bit harsh. I think any proposed move is now dead in the water , we should try to keep him.

I also feel after Lukaku's sale we are in a big transfer deficit and from the new ambitious board I fully expect (Ross's sale or not) to see a £50m attacking midfielder and and similarly priced striker, before start of the season otherwise I feel the optimism of the early transfer window will die out and we will bob along in or around the Europa League places again this season.

If only we knew what his gripe is? Money? Club ambition? Koeman?

I think some of the comments questioning his IQ (lack of a brain etc) are underhanded, If the criteria to be a successful or respected modern footballer was intelligence, we would be hard pushed to put together a Premier League 5-a-side team.

I hope the lad recovers and finds, when fit, he is slotting into a team that is riding high in the Premier League.

Dave Abrahams
62 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:32:40
One of the main reasons Ross wants to go to Spurs is that the manager there rates Barkley very highly and Ross is aware of this.

I think the deal is very possible before the deadline; lots of haggling between Everton and Spurs before the deal is finalised...

Joe Clitherow
63 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:53:16
Hugh (#52),

Just my opinion but I would correct you:

Ross does not have Rooney's heart or his football brain.

Richard Reeves
64 Posted 20/07/2017 at 09:57:01
If it's true that Tottenham value him at £15 mill then they must be relying on our desperation to get rid. I would rather put him in the reserves and work harder on convincing him to sign a new deal than let him go for that kind of money to those penny-pinching wealthy swines.
Chris Williams
65 Posted 20/07/2017 at 10:01:58
I think the possible culprit might be Levy.

£50m was never realistic. If this came from the club, I must have missed it. And we've read that terms have been agreed with Barkley. So it's a question of haggling about the fee most likely. Very likely around £25m, which is more realistic in the circumstances.

So the question is: Does Levy have a history of fartarsing around and trying to get a deal? Like he did with Pienaar, both ways.

My bet is he is waiting until as late as he can to try and get him on a knock down fee, maybe below £20m including add-ons. The surgery may encourage him.

Personally, I hope he gets his eye wiped and Barkley ends up elsewhere.

Frank McGregor
66 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:08:43
Jay (#47), I agree with your post completely. Poor influence on the team. No doubt a lot of the posters will disagree with you.
Kim Vivian
67 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:13:28
Choice between Sigurdsson at £40m+, and Ross really stepping up to the mark and showing us regularly what he can do – especially with the benefit of our newbies (particularly Rooney) – take Ross any day.

Speaks volumes to me that Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd and even Arsenal showing interest in Ross but no-one other than us and Leicester particularly vying for Sig. He's okay for sure – but not worth the money being asked IMO.

Looking at some of the names and valuations being bandied about, if Ross could put in a good season and he still makes overtures to moving away, we could be looking at easily £60m odd (at today's prices). Hopefully though, he will be helping us to a Champions League placing by next May.

And as an aside – 66/1 for Everton to win the league is well worth the punt.

Eric Myles
68 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:17:52
Kim (#65), Ross is out of contract next season, so – good one or not – he'll leave on a free.
Eric Myles
69 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:20:02
Dave (#62), yet you have a Spurs player moving on because he wants to lift a trophy, implying that won't happen for Spurs.
Tony McNulty
70 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:35:52
Leaving aside the ins and outs of whether he could make it at Everton (and many of us suspect that he wants out simply because he feels the manager doesn't rate him), it seems madness to me to let him leave for nothing in a year.

Looking at it purely commercially, why not pay him another £20k a week (cost = £1 million for the year) and get him to sign a three-year contract? You could then sell him for around £30 million in 2018. This gives £29 million in profit, as opposed to rock all.

It could create a wages ripple effect with other players admittedly, but £29 million would pay for more than one or two ripples.

Dale Rose
71 Posted 20/07/2017 at 13:44:03
I don't think he will go anywhere. I think he is trying for a bigger wage packet, but that's all. Give him a a season with our new set up and he will be here for the duration.
Sean Patton
72 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:01:17
Levy makes me laugh – he wants clubs to overpay for his own players yet wants to buy players from others on the cheap.

You can't have it both ways, so send the Walker money this way.

Chris Williams
73 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:10:49
Levy has got a stadium to pay for. He's probably looking down the back of his settee too.
Damian Wilde
74 Posted 20/07/2017 at 14:26:25
Kim:

"Speaks volumes to me that Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd, and even Arsenal showing interest in Ross."

Really? I believe we have ZERO bids for Ross. Absolute nonsense to say they're all interested.

Rudi Coote
75 Posted 20/07/2017 at 15:32:28
Ben Pullen – one cross and that makes him worth keeping... pay rise et al? You kidding?

Mark Anderson – Barkley has been taking the piss and will continue to do so while he is still at the club. I don't go in for sentiment in his case. He's not showing any, is he? He can / will do a Rodwell.

Up yours, Ross; good riddance when you do go. You've pissed on EFC too much.

Mark Andersson
76 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:12:28
Loving this post, I hope Ross reads it and laughs all the way to the bank.

Koeman is still learning his trade as a manager; only time will tell if his public stance over the Ross situation was good or bad. Personally, I don't give a fuck – The whole of football is madness.

Ross, if you do read TW, take it all with a pinch of salt and do what's best for YOU.

Dave Abrahams
77 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:15:06
Eric (#69), well that player has gone to Man City, so he may not be a bad judge.
Alan J Thompson
78 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:22:35
Eric (#68 & #69); Are you putting transfer fees on contributors and will there be add ons?
Alan McGuffog
79 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:46:48
Tony (#70). I concur. I have often wondered why clubs don't do this. Get any old contract signed with a player who wants to leave in order to attract a decent fee. Doubtless someone on here will tell us why this isn't practicable.
Ken Williams
80 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:48:47
The sooner the Barkley saga is concluded, the better; we can all then focus on the main event and not the sideshow.
Brian Williams
81 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:50:44
Alan. Well, it might put prospective players off if they saw how players were treated when nearing the end of their contract, for one.

Plus the player's not very likely to sign "any old contract" if he wants to leave as it would make his leaving more difficult (costlier for the buyer), for two

Kim Vivian
82 Posted 20/07/2017 at 17:53:34
Eric – Yes I know. I was assuming a new contract would have been sorted but neglected to mention that. I'm with Tony's school of thought – but just imagine if that was to happen and he bloomed next season. There'd be more than £29m ripples.

Damian – does an offer have to have been made to confirm a club's interest? I should have said "allegedly... blah blah", but no smoke and all that.

James Marshall
83 Posted 20/07/2017 at 19:18:48
I don't think Ross fits in at Everton – both as a player and as a person. I don't have much of a basis for the latter, I just get the feeling.

He seems like a bit of a bighead, and I wouldn't be surprised if he's put a few noses out of joint – much like when his own nose got put out of joint.

Tony McNulty
84 Posted 20/07/2017 at 20:40:59
Brian (#82),

In my example, the player in question would be “treated” to an extra million a year, and then allowed to go a club prepared to pay his transfer fee, if that's what he wanted.

I am not quite sure what other players would find objectionable in this. It is not as if modern footballers are unaware of the part played by commercial interests (largely their own interests, admittedly).

I will be interested to see if anyone takes up Alan's challenge (#79). On the general question of the treatment of players, and former ones who have fallen on hard times in particular, I suspect Everton's record is as good as many and better than most.

Jay Harris
85 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:05:42
Tony, Ross doesn't want to sign, full stop.

He has had Boys Pen Bill and Moshiri down his earhole for the past month and he still wants off... so he will NOT sign a new contract.

It is on the club to ensure we get a good deal and try not to strengthen rivals in the process which is why some posters are suggesting we let his contract run down and put him with the U23s for a season.

Peter Fearon
86 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:21:00
Tony (#70) and Alan (#79),

Why would a player's agent allow his client to sign a contract whose sole purpose is to tie him to a club in order to attract a higher transfer fee? The whole point of waiting to become a free agent is to present yourself to an alternate club without impedimenta so that some of the money that would have been spent on a transfer can be used to pay the player (and his agent) more.

Barkley clearly has a poor relationship with Koeman and wants out. That is understandable. I can respect that. It's harder to understand why a manager of his presumed talent would choose to alienate a player of Barkley's talent and potential.

Colin Glassar
87 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:29:55
I'd rather Ross left on a free next summer than accept a measly, humiliating £20m bid.
Steven Scaffardi
88 Posted 20/07/2017 at 21:35:55
If he goes, he'll spill the beans on how Koeman wanted him out. If he stays, he'll say he never wanted to leave! Either way, I'm not fussed anymore. It's far too much of an exciting time to be an Everton fan to worry about!
Simon Smith
89 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:07:15
You would have thought by now that he should have realised that players that leave Everton because the grass is greener elsewhere very rarely go on to better things!!

As my father would say, he's got ideas above his station and should know better!

Take the £20M and push him out the door it's better than nothing which could happen next year. Part of me still thinks he has been ill-advised by his agent and he should have taken the deal he was offered and not to try patience of the powers-that-be.

Colin Malone
90 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:07:35
Who is Barkley's agent?
James Marshall
91 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:10:59
Am I the only person who thinks there might be more to it? The whole thing about him getting into strife with locals in Liverpool, and perhaps he feels he needs to get out of the city?

Just a thought – there is life outside of football, even for footballers.

Denis Richardson
92 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:24:46
Quite right, James – every footballer is still human (regardless of the money). Could simply be boredom and needing/wanting a change of scenery.

Guy's been at Everton since he was about 8 so can't be surprised if he wants to see something else. A club like Spurs is big, challenging for the right things and are in the Champions League and miles away from the idiots who gave him grief.

Personally, I think it's best for club and player to part and I really wish him the best if he leaves. (Not sure if he has the football intelligence to make it big but that's just imho.)

Martin Mason
93 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:29:29
Ross has done absolutely nothing wrong and is undeserving of the stick aimed at him. He's at the end of his contract, doesn't have to sign a new one and is free to leave when his contract expires. He owes the club nothing, has said nothing and it has been the club that has looked out of order in all of its dealings with Ross especially when it has come to public announcements. I've also read that his demands for £150k are absolutely without foundation and yet we fall for it.

Ross is a rare talent who hasn't quite made it yet but the chances are that in a good side he will and that is why Spurs, Man Utd and Chelsea are all hovering around like vultures hoping for a bargain. Ideally it will be with us though, he is a lovely lad, a Blue through and through and would be a prodigious talent with good management and in the right team. I believe that Everton are actually working hard to keep him.

I desperately hope he stays; him staying costs us nothing and Sigurdsson, who isn't fit to lace Ross's boots, is a £50 M cost. What a disastrous bit of business that would be.

Constructively criticise him by all means but remember that he cost nothing. At his best, he is a world talent and we must aim to get him to approach or meet that level consistently before wiping our hands of him.

Clive Mitchell
94 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:31:38
Rudi (#75) – I think that's the most shameful post I've seen on TW.
Ray Roche
95 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:33:59
Martin, I too hope he stays, but if he reads ToffeeWeb, he'd go anywhere to escape the stick Evertonians seem to revel in giving to their own.
Gavin Johnson
96 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:46:19
I don't see why Ross can't do what's right for himself and the club.

Sign the contract and leave in 12 months if things aren't working out. We get a decent fee and Barkley gets a move to club that genuinely wants him instead of seeing him as a commodity like the penny counting Levy.

I honestly don't believe Spurs would be in for him if there wasn't this situation with his contract. They did the same thing when they pulled are pants down with Pienaar. Maybe Ross should get on the blower and ask him if the grass was greener at Spurs.

Clive (#94). C'mon, Rudi's post wasn't that bad. A bit of an OTT reaction there. Rudi's views represent those of a large contingent of Everton supporters who are a bit miffed with Ross. They're just different from yours and that doesn't make them any less valid.

Brian Wilkinson
97 Posted 20/07/2017 at 22:46:52
Arsenal now interested; swap Barkley for Giroud, at least then we will be getting something back because he will not sign a new contract, bring Sigurdsson in and everyone's a winner.

Before anyone says "young English talent; Giroud is 31", I would fully agree. The fact is Barkley will not sign his contract, we either lose him on a free, take a much lower amount, or swap for a player we would probably pay £20-£25 Million for.

James Marshall
98 Posted 20/07/2017 at 23:08:18
Some people see Ross as being a world class talent, but is he? I don't think he is (opinions/arseholes etc) purely because he's so hot & cold.

World class players do it every week, and work hard with & without the ball – Ross doesn't. He slows down the play, is ponderous, turns one way then the other, picks the wrong passes etc etc. This has been done to death.

If he was that good, every team in Europe would be after him, and so far I haven't seen a single bid for him!

Eddie Dunn
99 Posted 20/07/2017 at 23:14:40
Eric Myles (#69). The Spurs player, Walker, has joined Man City for money.
Dave Speed
100 Posted 21/07/2017 at 01:01:20
Just thought I'd add my penny's worth. I think it's all got overly complicated, with a lot of conjecture about the reasoning behind things.

As far as I know, Ross, Koeman, Everton and Gylfi have said very little, apart from the latter, who was quoted by Swansea as saying "My head is not in the right place" or something. Very simply, we have no idea of what is being said and by whom. Also, the fees are being 'vivisectioned' to death.

If we lumped things in pairs it all looks different. Put Gylfi in with Ramirez and we get told that it was £56m for the pair then we would be quite chuffed. If we then said Lukaku and Barkley went as a package for £110m there would be celebrations and back slapping all round.

If we then said that we could get in all the business we have done so far, and then got Gylfi, Giroud (as an example), left defensive cover and whatever else we need for a total outlay of, say, £60m to £70m of Mr Moshiri's money (if it is), then we would all be even more chuffed than we are now.

Just remember that we are often getting worked up over paper talk that covers itself by using phrases like "it is believed", "it is suggested that" or "we have it on good authority", which are literally a license to make up what they want.

As I said at the start, we are kept in the dark and we must wait for things to pan out. By all means speculate and offer opinions as it is great reading ideas that I haven't even thought of, but I don't think it's fair to rip someone apart (like Ross) based on what someone claims to know about why he is doing what he is doing.

I would finish by saying that, if Ross failed to agree a new deal and didn't sign, putting him in with the U23 team or not giving him a locker (Niasse) would lower Everton to the level of some other teams. I think that he should play or not play based on his training in the week and how he does in games that he plays, just like it should be with any player. It would just be spiteful to do otherwise.

If he left next summer for the compensation price then I believe that putting him in with Lukaku and saying that they went as a package for £93m or something like that would still be seen as good business.

Dave Speed
101 Posted 21/07/2017 at 01:24:25
Oh, I've just remembered something else. Regarding the stadium, I've read repeatedly that it is being used to seal the deal with potential targets. I have to smile each time I read it. I don't believe that any player who signs now would be thinking that in 2021, which is the best estimate for completion, they would be playing in a purpose-built brand spanking new, state of the art stadium and so they then sign on the dotted line!

No. I do think that it can be used to show targets that we are now an affluent club with a lot of financial clout to spend money all round to bring the project to fruition.

If in 2 or 3 years we have established our credentials in the Champions League and Premier Leagyue, then the top players we would then hopefully be in the market for may be staying over at the Titanic Hotel and looking out their windows at the nearly completed stadium. To be told that at the start of the next season they would be part of the historic team to run out first wearing Royal Blue? That would be something more tangible and just might be the clincher.

Peter Fearon
102 Posted 21/07/2017 at 02:46:58
Clive (#94),

You are right – that post was shameful. Unfortunately it is far, very far, from the most shameful post you will find on TW. Check out some of the scrofulous nonsense posted about Tim Howard to name just one example.

Dave Abrahams
103 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:08:50
Dave (#100),

There is a lot of sense in your post and, as you say, none of us really know what is happening behind the scenes. However, Dave, if Ross hangs on until the end of this coming season, I don't think Everton are due anything in compensation as he will be over 24 by then, so Everton will not receive any compensation.

Tony McNulty
104 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:27:31
Our dealings in the transfer market so far this window have really impressed me. Yet our manager has taken a binary position on Barkley: sign or be sold.

My point is that this is not to Everton's advantage commercially. We should do all we can to avoid Barkley spending the next nine months sitting on his arse drawing a salary, and then walking away on a free. Another club then has a player they can sell at £30 million plus.

Jay (85) – you may well be right of course. Ross sees little game time under this manager and wants out regardless.

Peter Fearon (#86): “Why would a player's agent allow his client to sign a contract whose sole purpose is to tie him to a club in order to attract a higher transfer fee?

It would not be presented in this crass manner of course. It would be sold as a salary increase (with the agent getting a cut). I suspect few agents are working other than on the basis of parochial self-interest. The logic of your position leads to no agent ever encouraging a player to sign a contract with their current club.

Sam Hoare
105 Posted 21/07/2017 at 09:35:57
If Barkley does go then at least we might see who was right in the various "Barkley is rubbish"..... "No, Lukaku is rubbish" camps.

I expect Lukaku to do well and score a lot of goals this season personally. I think Ross would do well at Spurs though it might take him longer to settle. Basically I think they are both good and that we would miss them both.

Tim Sharpe
108 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:00:07
Do agents not get a cut of any transfer fee? Surely then he would encourage him NOT to run out his contract and move on a free – less money for those greedy, parasitic sharks.
Stan Schofield
109 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:17:51
Opinions about Barkley often veer between the extremes of 'brilliant' to 'no football brain'. The reality is that he's a very good player who, like most very good players has bouts of inconsistency.

And just like every such player, better consistency often goes hand in hand with the team doing better overall. Since we're supposedly improving as a team, then I would be hopeful of Barkley being more consistent, with his more brilliant performances occurring more frequently.

So, I hope Barkley stays. However, I wouldn't bet money on it. We don't know the reasons for a new contract not being signed. But what I do know is, if my employer constantly assessed my performance in public the way Barkley's has been, I might be tempted to think, "Sod you, I'm off," just because I could.

Phil Walling
110 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:40:20
Tim @ 108.

The reality is that players who run down their contracts and thus 'earn' a free transfer, often demand a huge signing-on fee in lieu of what it might have cost the buying club. Campbell and Cole initiated this practice when they left Arsenal all those years ago.

You can be sure the agents get their usual 25% out of these deals. (50% if you manage the likes of Pogba!)

Clive Mitchell
111 Posted 21/07/2017 at 10:57:02
The Echo is now talking about us being linked with Sissoko. No. No. No, no, no, no, no.
James Watts
113 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:01:44
Saw that too Clive. Can't believe that would have any legs. Doesn't make any sense.

I'd be gobsmacked, and not in a good way. Would be an awful signing in an area we don't need anyone. That and of course the arrogant way he acted on deadline day last year when he laughed after being linked with us.

Sam Hoare
114 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:04:52
Think I could, maybe, just about stomach a loan for Sissoko. There's a decent player in there with a good turn of pace who looked one of the best players in a France shirt not long ago.

A loan gives us a chance to see if he can make up for the snub last time and, if not, then we lose little. On the other hand... Nah, he can rod off!

Hope the rumour of Arsenal's interest in Barkley is true. Giroud and £15m will do for me.

Colin Glassar
115 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:21:12
If we go for this guy who left us standing, and humiliated us on national television, then I would seriously consider vomiting into my porridge.

We need to show some self-respect and tell this useless fucking mercenary to fuck off!! The Toon fans, and now the Spurs fans all universally agree that he is a selfish piece of overrated dog turd.

So it's a yuuuuuge NO from me.

David Ellis
116 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:21:26
Sissoko? No go.
Chris Williams
117 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:25:45
Bullshit and beneath comment and contempt.

Hopefully.

Barry McNally
118 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:26:40
Lazy journalism at its best. I'd say Koeman never wants to speak to him again.
Frank Wade
119 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:54:00
If Ross is thinking of signing for Tottenham, maybe he should look at Sissoko:

● Starred for France in Euro final.
● Signed for £30m in a fanfare.
● Pocchettino obviously rated him to sign him from under our noses.
● Didn't set the world on fire with Spurs.
● "He has failed to live up to expectations" says Pocchettino. ● Exit stage left coming.
● Not good enough for Spurs.
● Started only 8 league games last season.

The grass is not always greener.

Roy Kj�rstad
120 Posted 21/07/2017 at 11:57:58
Sissoko??! I thought we dodged a bullet last year – turns out to be a boomerang! Duck again, Ronald.
Kunal Desai
121 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:03:10
Don't need Sissoko. We have plenty of players now that can play in that position. Shite story the rags have made up.
Linda Morrison
122 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:46:29
I think that this is Sissoko's agent trying to create interest where there is none.

As for Ross, he has often been criticised on these very pages for his lack of consistency, so along comes a manager who is honest and tells him that. Same manager starts to get something from Ross in terms of playing ability so I don't understand the current stand-off.

I think that Ross was certainly influenced by Lukaku... I don't think it is a coincidence that they both came out with similar statements. "Want Champions League Football" "It's not about the money etc."

Maybe he feels it has gone beyond the time when he could sign now; we don't know. We only know that one way or another it needs solving before September. If not we'll have another year of talk. He will replace Lukaku.

We need another striker and I think that is it hopefully!

Terry Underwood
123 Posted 21/07/2017 at 12:49:58
Hate to say this, but I recon Ross could really fuck himself up here and find himself playing for Fulham or Barnsley in a couple of years.

He really needs to buck up and apply himself.

Brian Williams
124 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:05:14
Colin (#115).

Getting the feeling you don't want him then, Col?

Daniel A Johnson
125 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:16:54
The issue with Sissoko isn't his ability – it's his attitude

Sure he can turn it on in the Euro Final which ultimately was a big shop window for him. But day to day in training he has a bad lazy attitude.

The way he treated us, I would ask him to come to Liverpool for talks only to find a room full of cardboard cut outs of Koeman and Big Dunc with a big banner on the wall saying "Fuck off".


Daniel A Johnson
126 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:25:42
Is there a more ill-advised/badly represented player in the Premier League than Ross Barkley at present?

His agent at this point in time has royally screwed his career.

I just can't understand his motivation for leaving. Unless it boils down to the fact he won't play for Koeman anymore.

Lev Vellene
127 Posted 21/07/2017 at 13:58:57
As for the Sissoko story, this is one time I'd have liked the club to actually make a statement about silly season links. Along the lines of:

"Everton Football Club would consider re-signing the 43-year-old Nick Barmby 10 out of 9 times before ever considering to touch Sissoko with a ten-foot pole!"

Jim Knightley
128 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:06:48
Why is it the agent's fault with Ross? Plenty of people at Everton will be advising him to stay and he would have had both sides of the story.

This is on him and him alone – he wants to pick up more money elsewhere sitting on the bench of either Spurs or Arsenal. He is disloyal and I can't understand it with him.

Lukaku scored a lot of goals in the past couple of seasons and had options to lead the line for big Champions League sides who will win him in trophies.

Barkley has been inconsistent, has not been among the best performing attacking midfielders in the Premier League, and will become a squad player in a better team.

James Macdonald
129 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:22:19
I really concur with the concerns that Ross is being poorly advised, but for different reasons than expressed elsewhere (at least from what I have read).

There are stories circulating that, if the price drops below £20 million then Jose will take him. From the perspective of a Chelsea, Man Utd, Arsenal and to a lesser extent Tottenham paying £20 million or even less for a quality English talent is a bit of a no-brainer. They get a player with the potential to be a first team regular who could prove a ridiculous bargain for them or at worst a useful player they can rotate into the team now and again, and warm the bench.

The most pertinent point from Ross's point of view should be though that, at £20 million, he will be easily expendable and he won't get many chances if he does not hit the ground running. Ultimately my fear is he won't play much, his confidence will be shot and then it turns into a Rodwell-esque nightmare for him.

If it the case he wants out of Everton, I think West Ham or Newcastle would be more sensible destinations. I really wish him all the best – a wonderful player and undervalued by Everton and too many Evertonians. Let the kid be instinctive and exciting rather than a good percentage player.

Ultimately in 10 or 20 years you won't remember how we did in the league particularly in any season but you will remember magic moments and players. Let him be that – he can be.

Ernie Baywood
130 Posted 21/07/2017 at 14:31:46
All conjecture, Jim. You know as much about his reasons as me and the rest of us. Nothing.
Martin Mason
131 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:05:40
It isn't against the law to change your job. That is all Ross is looking at doing. For whatever reason, he hasn't reached his very high potential with us and he may feel that the only way he can do it is with another club.

Is he a poor player, no, he's best in age group at every England level and a full international. Like hundreds of others though he is trying to reach his full potential in a tough league and he may well not do it but if moving is a way to do it then he must try it.

We should wish him the best of luck as a Blue and model youth and pro. There is a fair chance though that he will reach or approach his massive potential and if so, or even if he falls short, then it should be with us and I hope the club persuade him to stay.

Lukaku has been in stunning form for Man Utd.

Brian Wilkinson
132 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:23:44
I think we should get Sissoko, put him through his vigorous medical, get him to wait in the Adelphi hotel, ignore his calls, then announce on Sky Sports we have decided against it without notifying his agent or himself. Then, when Spurs say "You're taking the piss," reply "Well, you started it with the Barkley valuation."
Trevor Peers
133 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:39:50
You may wish him well, Martin@131; I'm indifferent. If Ross had contributed to us winning a cup or even provided us with consistent seasons of high entertainment, I might agree with you.

As it stands, we've nurtured the lad for years, made him into an England international and we might not even get a penny for him in transfer fees, so why should we wish him any luck? He's mugged us off.

Jay Harris
134 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:46:05
I totally agree, Trevor.

And I totally disagree that Lukaku has been in stunning form.

I have watched all of the games he has played in and Bamford looked far better.

Lukaku's usual weaknesses were in evidence throughout – offside and poor ball control as well as untypically missing a couple of sitters. Okay, he scored but against very poor opposition. He did nothing to convince me he is the real deal.

Will Mabon
135 Posted 21/07/2017 at 15:57:56
"As it stands, we've nurtured the lad for years made him into an England international and we might not even get a penny for him in transfer fees, so why should we wish him any luck? He's mugged us off. "

If it were to come out in the future that Koeman had treated him very badly, to a degree that other players subsequently said the same, would you still say he has "Mugged us off"?

You don't know what's gone on behind the scenes, Trevor. From what you do know that's been seen in public, who has behaved with the most respect toward the other of Koeman and Barkley?

Martin Mason
136 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:01:29
Trevor,

Everton didn't make Ross into a very good footballer did they? For me, they only guided him on the way with a view to benefitting from his talent.

I've rarely seen such natural talent in a player and while he hasn't yet made that final crossing into real top class, he still has the potential to do so. Remember he lost nearly 3 years with a very bad leg break that must have had a big psychological effect on him.

Is Ross the only Everton player who has left without winning us a cup or not performed at the level we fans irrationally expect of them? Of course not, so why pick him out of hundreds for criticism.

If we don't get a penny for him then the club has mugged itself – not been mugged by Ross. They stated very clearly that he sign the new contract or be sold so now they have to sell him. They have backed themselves into a corner in a position where Ross holds the aces. He owes Everton nothing other than to have met the terms and conditions in his Contract. He's doing nothing wrong by wanting to better himself and move to a new job.

John Pierce
137 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:20:38
Martin,

You are doing everything in your power to defend Ross, that;s cool and fair dos.

I'd ask if you are that behind him you'd acknowledge by the standards you set for him, in 4 years in a team better than most Premier League sides, why he's not realised his potential?

Don't argue he has such a high ceiling and make a defence for him at the same time.

Ross is a good player, and can produce moments that many players could not reach even on their best days.

That was true before Koeman as well as after his arrival. The decision to realise his potential is with Ross and he has not achieved that at Everton.

The standard of players is good enough for him to flourish; absolute nonsense to suggest he needs better players to become the player he should.

He has in four years not defined a position for himself. He is a positionless wonder who drifts in and out of games.

Let's say your arguement about better players holds water, then why not sign and stay? Everton have improved their squad and will look to continue that. Have they not?

A player who did hold promise has in my mind run out of steam. He just happens to be an Evertonian.

Trevor Peers
138 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:27:25
One way of judging how the fans really feel, Martin and Will, is to see how he is received when he plays next time out at Goodison for his new club, if he does actually leave.
Stan Schofield
139 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:13
Everton have been largely shite for over two decades, and the final season under Martinez was the pits. And he was sacked. But nevertheless, individual players get it in the neck, be it Stones, Lukaku, Barkley or others.

It's a wonder we managed to keep any of those players as long as we did. If Barkley leaves, best of luck to him. He's got a career to look after, which possibly comes first, well before the interests of EFC or Ronald Koeman.

I remember the way EFC treated Alan Ball, and Alex Young before him. Given the way they've handled Barkley in such a publically open way, if I were him, I'd be minded to let the management know what I think of them, then further my career elsewhere.

Christine Foster
140 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:51
It's not often in my days I find myself in full agreement with Martin Mason, having clashed on numerous issues in the past. I feel I must be subject to a mysterious aliment or have to consider he has a point.

In fact, its not only him.. there are many that would welcome Ross Barkley playing well in a good team. The fact is he has played for 3 totally different managers who all viewed his talents and use differently. Play back, play forward, play wing, fill the hole, play striker, defend more, etc, etc..

So now he has Koeman who clearly has little love or affection for the player, just another tool in the toolbox to use if needed.

I would also say how dismayed I am that so many TW contributors have decided to echo that ex-editor of the Scum who initiated that Ross is dim... lights on, no-one home.. on just what basis do any of you have the right to make that claim? What justification?

The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding Koeman, his contract, what he wants, in short what the problem is... yet so many jump on a bandwagon to condemn.

It's not surprising should he want to leave given the comments here and with Koeman, I hope he stays and makes a lot on here eat some humble pie, but even if he does it will be surprising if he gets to play.

At some point we will find out the reasons, but as Linda said (as I said too a while ago), I believe Lukaku was in Barkley's ear all the time, misery loves company and boy was Lukaku stirring it..

Kim Vivian
141 Posted 21/07/2017 at 16:52:59
Absolutely Lev, absolutely! Total knob.

Not good enough for Spurs but good enough for us, eh, Frank? Do me a favour...

David Barks
142 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:00:39
Christine,

You use your post to say all those people making claims about Barkley have zero proof of their claims. Then you turn around and make a completely unsubstantiated claim of blaming Lukaku for Barkley's situation. Not even separate posts, same post.

Come on, now. Where is your proof now that you were so quick to admonish others for reading into Barkley's refusal to sign a contract going into his final year?

Paul Tran
143 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:16:49
Christine, I'm not interested in claims about Barkley. I'm interested in the fact that a talented player is unable to consistently demonstrate his talent on the pitch. That he shows the decision-making of a tradesman who turns up with a great set of tools and uses a hammer to insert a screw.

I'd love to see Barkley playing consistently well in a good Everton team. I've stopped expecting it and am tired of seeing the raft of excuses as to why a footballer doesn't produce the goods on the pitch.

He isn't signing the contract. That says to me he wants to leave. Fine. Let him and let's bring in players who are talented and able to use that talent consistently.

Christine Foster
144 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:01
David, what the heck are you talking about? I was dismayed that many on here are echoing the one time editor of the rag, on what basis I asked as he has said nothing. Or done nothing other than adhere to his contract.

Secondly I made reference to Linda's comment, of which I agreed based on the obvious friendship on the pitch and comments allegedly attributed that mirrored Lukaku's.

Stan Schofield
145 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:02
David, I think you are right about Christine stating her belief about Lukaku's interaction with Barkley.

However, I also believe Christine is also right in saying that many of the derisory comments about Barkley are without any substantiation or justification.

These are two separate issues. Your criticising Christine for the first is simply a diversion from the second, which is an important issue raised by Christine by virtue of the fact it is reiterated so many times on TW.

Regarding those who deride Barkley's intelligence, what's that old saying about casting the first stone?

Dave Abrahams
146 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:18:29
Martin (#136), you like Ross and think he has a good chance of becoming a much better player than he is; fair enough, I hope you are correct and honestly wish the lad well in the future, as do the majority of Everton fans.

At the same time as defending him, Martin, please stick to the facts regarding Ross's leg break. He broke his ieg in October 2010 and was able to join the first team in pre-season training for the start of the 2011-12 season which is a lot less than you state, three seasons you said, it might have took him three seasons mentally to get back to where he was, but he was playing in the first team a lot sooner than that.

Christine (#140), you say Ross has played in numerous positions for Everton, well he hasn't learned very much from those experiences. A really good player would take everything in from playing in different positions.

You also say you are not surprised he would want to leave, given the comments about him on ToffeeWeb and the way Koeman has treated him but, as you say yourself, no-one really knows what has gone on. Koeman has criticised Barkley two or three times, with valid points and Ross has improved under the manager.

Christine, Barkley is 23 going on 24 and I know we do not all have the same temperament, but he should be able to take a bit of stick, whether it is in private or in public.

Will Mabon
147 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:25:13
"One way of judging how the fans really feel, Martin and Will, is to see how he is received when he plays next time out at Goodison for his new club, if he does actually leave."

Maybe so but that's not the point I (or you) made. We anyway have an idea of the various opinions from this forum, for one source.

David Barks
148 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:30:28
Christine,

"The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding Koeman, his contract, what he wants, in short what the problem is... yet so many jump on a bandwagon to condemn."

Then: "At some point we will find out the reasons, but as Linda said (as I said too a while ago) I believe Lukaku was in Barkley's ear all the time, misery loves company and boy was Lukaku stirring it."

So, you believe Lukaku was in his ear yet have no knowledge at all about this being true. In other words, "The lad has said nothing, repeat, nothing regarding" Barkley. Yet you felt free to claim that he's responsible. "Boy was Lukaku stirring it".

If you're going to make unsubstantiated claims pulled only from your imagination don't go after others when they "jump on a bandwagon to condemn" for reading into the situation themselves.

Christine Foster
149 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:30:45
David Abraham, totally agree, he should be able to take the stick when it's justified.

I don't know the reasons for his failure to sign a new contract; at the moment, no-one does... but before we kick him into touch, it would be nice to know; alas, there is stick which is justifiable and some which is not.

I would love to see him playing to his full potential in an Everton team but I doubt it will now happen and, for whatever the reason, it's disappointing but does not justify personal abuse regarding his intelligence.

William Cartwright
150 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:34:08
The trouble with the Ross situation is his silence on all fronts is leading observers to make up their minds, or stories for the sake of well news or tittle tattle.

I love what Ronald has done for the club since his arrival, but no one is perfect. Dealing with multiple prematurely wealthy young men all challenging each other for positions can't be easy. Mistakes will be made.

Mistakes, however, are not the same as rank bad behaviour. I suspect Ronald has been guilty of this in the case of Niasse and Ross. I say suspect, because, like everyone else I am responding to media messages and doubtless don't have the full picture.

Whatever the background, the public treatment of Niasse has fallen well short of professional courtesy. No need to go into details. I feel the same, perhaps to a lesser degree, may have happened to Ross, because there in (I believe) he wants to leave Everton other than he is fed up of being pilloried in the media and given no support by his manager. In fact, Koeman's ultimatums that a player 'must be sold if he does not sign a new contract beggars belief. He has a contract, still in force, that he can work too. Theoretically and practically in every legal sense.

Good manager, say it like it is instead of blowing smoke up arses, does not excuse the sheer bloody minded, illegal arrogance of the man, and (I suspect) Ross has just said to himself, "Bugger this for a game of soldiers, I'm off to lead a normal footballers life instead of being on the receiving end of Koeman's mood of the moment."

The case of Niasse is even more extreme where any good lawyer would highlight his career has been stymied by how Everton (Koeman?) have treated him.

There is something rotten in the state of Goodison over both these issues and it may well come to light over time.

David Barks
152 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:36:27
And Christine,

I fully agree with your point about his personal intelligence. It's stupid criticism based off of nothing. His vision and decision-making on the pitch? That's another matter. But people saying he's dim and slow, completely ridiculous.

I wanted him to stay but I also don't think he's progressed. The fact that he won't sign a new contract says all I need to know, that he doesn't want to be here. The reasons why? Who knows. But he obviously doesn't want to continue to apply his trade here.

Christine Foster
153 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:41:39
David Barks, so it's okay to make comments or denigrate someone about their intelligence without justifying it? When it happens to have been the same accusation made by the editor as was of the Sun? That's okay by your standards?

With respect to my unsubstantiated comments re Lukaku and Linda's comments which I agree with based on as I said, their friendship on and off the pitch. One unhappy player can sway another, that's all the comment was and I agree with Linda that there might be truth in that.

As both points are about Barkley, I did not see the need to separate, as I am sure as Stan said, they are intertwined

David Barks
154 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:44:18
Christine,

Read what I said again.

Christine Foster
155 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:44:43
David our posts cross, I understand what you say.
Ron Marr
156 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:50:12
I want Ross to stay and learn from Rooney but expect him to join Man Utd. An athlete would have to be a masochist or incredibly thick skinned to read sports forums which are mostly people venting.
John Pierce
157 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:53:25
I think the biggest irony is that Barkley has probably got Koeman to thank for his most consistent form in the last three years. Whether he coaxed it from him, provoked it out of him or it was simply all Ross. Koeman was responsible for playing him on the right.

From December through March, he played to a decent level of consistency. Koeman made him play from the right high up the pitch. He was released from defensive duties and often used Coleman to good advantage.

As soon as Coleman got injured, his level dropped again. Now my point is Ross without the runner couldn't or wouldn't adapt to the fact his full back was never going beyond him.

That is not a difficult tactical leap. Its an example which to me highlights the lack of progress in the decision-making department. Is he really that reliant on other players? I've heard that Everton's movement inhibits the lad. Okay, fair enough, why not adapt to that and you become the movement?

"Over promised, under-delivered"?

Will Mabon
158 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:53:56
"There is something rotten in the state of Goodison over both these issues and it may well come to light over time."

William, you may be right but I'd like to think it was a mix of clumsiness from Koeman, and perhaps picking the wrong method to lay down a marker of his authority. He allegedly dropped Deulofeu over comments about tactics, too. That said, he did rather emphasize with Barkley. I'd guess they fell out.

Hopefully, the club is constantly considering and improving its PR. It needs to. Moshiri himself got off to an uncertain start with the Sissoko debacle and the Jim-Whyte-is-my-buddy thing.

It's all very regrettable that one of the most undeniably talented English players of his generation cannot be managed and improved by a supposed top manager of the times, at a club now in a position to go places – whoever is to blame.

I hope to never again see quality forsaken by the club, if avoidable. Reading what Stan posted earlier, perhaps unwarranted bad treatment of players has happened before and it will probably happen again. Humans, eh?

Will Mabon
159 Posted 21/07/2017 at 17:59:32
"I've heard that Everton's movement inhibits the lad. Okay fair enough, why not adapt to that and you become the movement? "

Another point is, John, what players do now on the pitch is more defined than ever. We simply don't know to what instruction Barkley was playing. He used to run at and take on players, drive at goal. We rarely see that now. Has he "lost it" or is he told not to do it, or encouraged to be mindful of not taking risks?

Brian Williams
160 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:01:56
Has anybody considered that the standoff may be over nothing more than money?

Will Mabon
161 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:06:47
Brian, yes... all guesses are available for use in the absence of confirmed fact!

We've only had indicators in one area though, so that's getting the lion's share.

Brian Williams
162 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:12:12
Well, and I'll regret this... but from a mate of his:

It's money – about £30k a week's worth of money.

Mike Gaynes
163 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:12:59
Will (#158):

"It's all very regrettable that one of the most undeniably talented English players of his generation cannot be managed and improved."

"I hope to never again see quality forsaken by the club..."

You equate talent and quality. I do not. The first does not necessarily beget the second – particularly in the case of Barkley, whose talent far outstrips his quality in my opinion.

Many fans, if not most, believe a manager chooses his side based on getting the best players on the pitch. In fact, the manager chooses the side he thinks will be the most likely to win the game – and that's not always the 11 most talented players. There were extended stretches during the first half of last season when our results were better without Barkley than with him, and I recall some striking examples of his being subbed off and the level of the team's performance improving instantly and obviously.

As John (#157) points out, Barkley became a significant contributor for a while when Koeman moved him up right and defined his role more clearly. But the simple fact is that, for whatever reason, Barkley was unable to maintain that level of quality. He has always been unable to maintain it over time.

Whether he stays or goes, I'm convinced that Barkley's talent has taken him as far as it can. The only one who can achieve the necessary step up to consistent quality is the player himself... and I have come to doubt that he can.

Martin Mason
164 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:21:33
Dave@146, sorry about the 3 years out, that's what you get from relying on a memory that isn't what it was. I meant that he had a long break at a critical time in his development and that it must have had a negative effect. Few players ever recover unconditionally from bad injuries.

I would hope we could all agree that, from EFC's point of view it'd be far better to keep Ross, to give him chance to pick up his game in a much more fluid and skilful team rather than spend his time trying to find an isolated and much less mobile Lukaku. I'd like to see a manager play him as a forward or just behind so that his defensive and midfield distribution weaknesses are mitigated and he can use his amazing skills to finish with either foot or head to maximum effect.

I defend Ross but hopefully in a justifiable way, I'm an Evertonian and as far as I can see there is no case against the lad based on anything other than conjecture and conspiracy. I blame Koeman's aggression and arrogance (often needed as a manager) far more than anything Ross has done. Ross is far more introverted and they are like opposite poles.

Christine, social media is in many ways a bad thing as it depersonalises discussions and encourages polarisation as we look only for things that we agree with and which reinforce our beliefs. I'm sure that if we met we'd find that we have far more in common than we disagree on. I'm 66 and saw my first game in 1956 or 57 and I believe you also go back as a great Evertonian. We have great memories of the good times and despair over the majority of the time when we were in the shadow of the best.

Be patient, Christine, our time is coming and Ross needs to have a chance at least to be part of this wonderful Renaissance. No club has built a successful side and a completely new ground at the same time and it is our destiny to become the first. I've seen the future and it is blue.

Best wishes to all.

Mike Gaynes
165 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:24:38
By the way, I want to emphasize that my belief that Ross has fallen short of quality has nothing to do with his attitude. So often, players who don't live up to their talent are sidetracked by lack of fitness, professionalism or maturity, but that's absolutely not the case with Barkley – he's a hardworking, committed player who has lived up to the standards of the club in every way. He just doesn't always understand the game very well IMO.

And I'm no doubt a bit biased... I've always favored players whose quality surpassed their talent, the two most obvious being Tim Cahill and Phil Jagielka. Just my built-in prejudice.

John Pierce
166 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:27:23
Will, I take your point, under Martinez, his role was as undefined as it got; under Koeman, the exact opposite. But even if he was under orders, I believe a player with both the talent and the appropriate application would figure the problem out for himself.

The player who believes in himself would challenge the manager with his actions on the field. My example highlighted his lack of defensive responsibility and that in itself tells the lad he can roam and drive at players?

Surely even Koeman doesn't tell the lad not to take risks in the final third? Because I saw plenty of times he did.

And if he does then perhaps we have the root of the standoff, and I thank you!

That's Barkley 101. Thanks for listening!

Dermot Byrne
167 Posted 21/07/2017 at 18:34:44
"In a much more fluid and skilful team rather than spend his time trying to find an isolated and much less mobile Lukaku"

Mmm. That made me rethink. Good point, Martin.

Dave Abrahams
168 Posted 21/07/2017 at 19:45:12
Christine (#149), just to clarify, I was in no way condoning any personal attacks on Ross's intelligence, just his ability as a player.

Martin, I think it would be good for Everton if Ross sorted out his saga with Everton, signed a new contract, got his head down and continued to improve under Koeman, because – as others have said – there was an improvement after Christmas but it stalled later on.

Charles Brewer
169 Posted 21/07/2017 at 19:47:02
Ross Barkley is a complicated footballer. He undoubtedly has plenty of talent, but he has exhibited a series of consistent faults over the years which a good club should have sorted out.

But equally, he seems to be quite a fragile character who has had a series of major setbacks, first physically while playing for England (U19), then psychologically, also when playing for England at the World Cup where, despite the universal ineptness of the squad, he was the only player not selected by the useless but malicious Roy Hodgson (England's worst ever manager).

I suspect he takes his failings at Goodison to heart too. I also strongly suspect that a dressing room poisoned by a player "much too good for Goodison" would not have been healthy for a player as susceptible to bad situations as Ross.

My guess would be that he believes that he's a very good footballer, but that, for whatever reason, circumstances have told against him time after time. The write up in the Evening Standard this week suggested that he had got on very well with Pochettino and that Spurs might be the place where he can get away from his history and start again.

Actually, I'd quite like to see him sign a 1-year extension, and then play in the same team as Wayne Rooney for a season, and then, on the basis of a season without the Incredible Sulk, see how it's gone.

Jay Harris
170 Posted 21/07/2017 at 20:49:41
As I've said before, no-one could argue that Ross is not one of the most technically gifted players we have seen at Goodison Park.

However, that's where it ends. He cannot dictate midfield play and cannot score enough goals to play upfront.

Wherever he plays he is a square peg in a round hole. 4 managers have expressed dissatisfaction with Ross's ability to adopt tactically and for me he is no better now than he was 4 or 5 years ago.

Whether it is in his head or his private life nobody knows but to refuse a new lucrative contract is a clear statement he wants away.

We have enough players who want to play for the club so let him roast on his own fire.

What I would like to know though is how Ross can claim he did not ask for £150k a week when discussing terms with Spurs when Jim White is stating there has been no approach for him.

Surely the FA have to step in and make some ruling on these players and agents who talk freely about joining XYZ club when they are under contract at another club.

Paul Birmingham
171 Posted 21/07/2017 at 22:45:41
Top lad but as a player has lost it big time, proven over years, and is in a phase of showing no instinct and lack of fight and spirit.

I hope Barkley gets rejuvenated, but somehow, and ironically as of now, there's no sign.

Stay, lad and start again... Blue through and through.

Paul Birmingham
172 Posted 21/07/2017 at 22:52:28
The truth as always is with the Gods... but, as Evertonians, we should be told as to what's happening with the club.
Raymond Fox
173 Posted 21/07/2017 at 23:49:33
Barkley's best season was Roberto's first season, but he has not played consistently to that level since.

Why? There could be several possible reasons, but the real top players very seldom have a bad game whatever the circumstances.

Very hard to figure out, our Ross; he has me stumped, I must admit. He's had enough chances now though, it's time to wave him goodbye.

Don Alexander
174 Posted 22/07/2017 at 01:23:16
The fans declaring outrage at anyone stating their belief that Ross is a bit dim seem to overlook the facts that his current employer has made him a millionaire, offered him a contract to extend his colossal wealth and then, through their manager, expressed a degree of exasperation that he won't sign it, thereby reducing any return to that employer for their lavish expenditure.

That's a galling situation for any employer to be in but when the player in question has at the same time always declared himself a true blue it's perverse, and not least to many fans of the club. Why would such a player do that?

You'd have to be way thicker than a bit dim to do that and not foresee major consequences to your own probable detriment if nobody offered you better terms than those in the contract you've shunned. You'd look a pillock, as would the agent you employ, and the more so if, repeat "if", the shunned contract is withdrawn by the employer as a consequence of your non-commitment to the club's future prosperity.

Excusable as a naïve 18 year-old perhaps but when you're near 24 it's, well, a bit dim. At best.

And many of us, me included, whilst admiring his (regrettably rare) effectiveness have also commented on his consistently visible air of bemusement when on the pitch, but that's maybe only when Jupiter aligns with Mars eh? Nowt to do with him being a bit dim.

(And before anyone cites me as supporter of the Scum in their attack on him, their analogy with a gorilla was the offensive bit, together with the sweeping denigration of all us scousers, again.)

Will Mabon
175 Posted 22/07/2017 at 01:49:50
"...but when the player in question has at the same time always declared himself a true blue, it's perverse, and not least to many fans of the club. Why would such a player do that?"

A true blue not signing an offered contract may illustrate that something is wrong in the relationship. Doesn't automatically mean it's the player at fault.

In your post, Don, you've completely failed to address that the club or its representatives may have been at fault in some way. Also, just because the club have paid about the going rate for Barkley's services, making him a millionaire, doesn't mean they own his soul.

I guess if someone made you wealthy and then treated you poorly, you wouldn't have the gall to complain.

Hugh Jenkins
176 Posted 22/07/2017 at 06:39:22
The history of Everton, perhaps more so than many of the other big clubs in England, has, in recent years been littered with "promising" youth players that have eventually failed to make the grade for various reasons. Regrettably, it seems that Ross is the latest in that line.

The one that did make it big and left, has now come back. Apart from Jeffers, however, and until Rooney, I don't recall any of the other big clubs, in England, or elsewhere, making a huge effort to acquire those players.

Additionally, and we are all aware of the power of the press, there was never any huge media campaign to get one of our players sold to one of the media "darlings", except in the case of Rooney.

I therefore ask myself (and perhaps Ross should too), why aren't the Sun, the Daily Mirror, the Daily Mail and the Express screaming that he should be moving on to "better" his prospects?

The press cover the story, but as far as I can see are not really doing what they normally do when a truly talented player is "languishing" at a "mid-table club" when he should be playing in the "upper reaches" of the premier league.

We all denigrate the press for being journeymen journalists etc. However, they may be quite knowledgeable about the game.

It may also be, that given the circumstances above, Ross is not actually as good as, he thinks / we think, he is. If he was, the furore to move him on to a "bigger team", would have reached a crescendo by now.

After all, he is hardly an 18 year old Tom Davies breaking on to the scene, he is a 24 year old, seasoned professional, who thus far, has failed to overly impress the media.

Ian Linn
177 Posted 22/07/2017 at 07:06:57
I"m sorry that he's injured but, at the end of the day, I don't think he's any good and I think we're better off without him.

Just sayin'.

James Macdonald
178 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:15:20
Really interesting comments from Hodgson on Barkley which I think are spot on. A player who takes risks will attract criticism when a pass does not come off, they get dispossessed, a shot goes over the top, etc. But that is the price we should be paying for the brilliant other side of the coin – accept it and embrace it.

I would hate for such an exciting player to become a good percentage player and effectively be "castrated" the way Ferguson did that to Giggs and Rooney – great team players but with their individual brilliance redacted for the overall benefit of results.

Christine Foster
179 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:42:57
James Macdonald, yes I agree and rather a telling insight into how Ross is viewed by others. He wasn't playing well but made the England squad because of his individual ability to turn a game. Hodgson was fair in saying he wasn't good enough to be picked but his comments on why he should move to another club is telling.

I believe Ross is a confidence player; when its going well he is capable of producing the goods, but somewhere along the line last season he became unhappy with someone or something. The rest is conjecture, managers comments didn't help, pressuring him didn't help, abuse didn't help, press didn't help and fans didn't help either. Everyone seemed to be turning on him.

He may lack the ability to shake off comments easily but his form dipped he lost his place and his faith in those around him.

Hodgson was spot on, he needs a club where he feels valued and a manager who can get the best out of him. Sadly, it does not appear that its Everton.

Christine Foster
180 Posted 22/07/2017 at 08:53:29
Perhaps it's no surprise that he had his best season with Roberto Martinez, who pumped him up at every opportunity after a very dour David Moyes...

Koeman is a smart manager but appears to have little affinity with the players, a criticism made of him at Southampton in his treatment of some of the younger players – if he doesn't rate you or want you he has no time for you.

Many of you will just point to the fact that Koeman was just telling it how it was, but its a shame he didn't do that with any of the other 23 players who weren't performing either.

I think the board allowed Koeman to play it his way and Ross essentially has dug his heels in. There will be only one outcome in all of this, the manager will get his way, Ross will leave and EFC will be the worse for it.

As I say... it's all conjecture... but Koeman does have form.

Ian Bennett
181 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:18:59
Question – does Ross go for free next summer, or would Everton get a development fee if he moved to another English club? He would be 24, so that's not clear to me.
Tony Abrahams
182 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:23:44
Christine, Koeman dropped his captain Jagielka. McCarthy was in and out, as was most of the other players in the team. He's changed his squad dramatically in the space of 12 months and he also said he wants Barkley to stay.

I disagree that Barkley, had his best season under Martinez, although I do think he might have occasionally excited us more during Roberto's first season in-charge?

I watched nearly every game live that season, and if Ross had a good game one week, he was nearly always the worst player on the pitch the following match. Opinions of course, but Barkley has only started to find a bit of consistency during 2017, and only once he finds that will the kid go on to the next level.

He's playing for a manager who demands more, simply because the manager knows he's got a lot more to give, but he might/might not understand this just yet, because he's probably been told how good he his all his life.

I wish Barkley well, hope he stays, but don't think he's worth the money he's asking for. But if Everton are asking for £50 million, I can understand Ross, and his advisors, hanging out for at least £140,000 a week.

Dave Abrahams
183 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:26:04
Ian (#181), Ross is 24 in October, so – if he stays with Everton until the end of this season – he can sign for another club and Everton will receive nothing.
Ian Bennett
184 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:51:54
Cheers Dave – then any hope of anything over £20m, is pretty unlikely and points that we got a fairly good deal on Lukaku with just 2 years left.

On Christine's point, it is disappointing to lose Ross – but in terms of the manager having discipline running through the club, it is absolutely necessary and something that brought Martinez to his knees in that terrible last 6 months. Martinez, Keegan etc are all managers that have let things go, and were rewarded with the sack. It's great when it's going well, but irreversible when results slip.

It's seems to be fairly set in stone that the ruthless / strict managers get to the top – Ferguson, Lippi, Sacchi, Ancelotti, Mourinho, Capello, Scolari, Hiddink, van Gaal, even our own Harry Catterick.

If Ross is a casualty, it will be sad but I think is more of a reflection on his character, than wanting to be part of a club that now has the resources to finally compete. I hated him, but Gerrard made it a commitment that he would be the best player at training or on the pitch. That winning mentality got him to the top. It will be interesting to see if Ross gets to the top, or joins Rodwell et al – players that have gone backwards when leaving us.

Joe Foster
185 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:56:03
Ross's future will probably be determined on Deadline Day, when prices are even more inflated than the rest of the transfer window.
Martin Mason
186 Posted 22/07/2017 at 09:57:47
As I said above, social media rarely improves debate but acts to polarise it. It's ultra rare that anybody changes their mind and we rarely go back to judge what was said after the event.

My own opinion though is that those on the gratuitously critical side of the discussions on various players, such as Lukaku, have generally been on the wrong side. I also believe this to be so for those who are so hard on Ross.

Lukaku, who was crucified by some looks like a snip for what Man Utd paid for him (at modern valuations), he's a Rolls Royce of a striker who I'll back for at least 25 goals again this year and maybe a title.

Barkley may or may not make it to the very top but he's towards the top even now. He isn't rubbish by any standard and if the press is to be believed all of the top clubs are keeping abreast of developments.

We need to remember too that the number of players in his position who come through the ranks and get to the very top are rare. I can think of Dele Alli now but I don't believe he is a patch on what Ross has the potential to become. Paul Scholes was a great example but the rest have usually soared like eagles and then gradually fallen away.

We mustn't judge Barkley by irrational standards. He has no big transfer fee to live up to and has cost us nothing relatively speaking.

Martin Nicholls
187 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:21:31
Dave (#183) & Ian (#184) – I've tried to research this but found no definitive answer. I appreciate the generalities about players under-24 rejecting contracts but I was trying to establish exactly what "under 24" means.

I'm sure I've read somewhere that it means "at the start of the season" (to be more precise, maybe closure of summer transfer window?). A situation similar to that in horse racing were a horse's age is determined by it's age on 1st January? Who knows???

Martin Nicholls
188 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:30:31
Like everyone else, I've no idea of the reason for this contract impasse. Many seem to think it is down to a personality clash between Koeman and Barkley but it occurred to me that if this is the case then why, if he is the big Blue that we're led to believe, doesn't Barkley simply sign for the remaining 2 years of Koeman's contract (essentially a one year contract extension)?

That way, he'd remain with his "boyhood club" and end up either working under a different manager OR he'd be playing for Everton in the Champions League (qualification for which seems to be demanded of Koeman if he is to stay beyond his current contract), albeit under Koeman. A win-win for any genuine "true Blue" in my view.

Phil Walling
189 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:32:30
There is an assumption here that Barkley is a luxury player who has been, or can be, replaced with comparative ease. The same confidence abounds amongst recent posters that all those Lukaku goals will be spread around the 'new' signings.

Exciting though this closed season has been when viewed against previous summers, you have only to look back to the Spurs experience after the sale of Bale when a raft of star signings failed to bed in and their 'progress' went into reverse.

Yes, I share the view that we should be capable of improving a position or two but there is no guarantee that some of the new names will be any improvement on those they have replaced. My money will, therefore, be on another seventh finish!

Colin Glassar
190 Posted 22/07/2017 at 10:48:08
£50m is the new average now. Even if you don't rate Ross, he has to be in the £35-40m bracket.
Dave Abrahams
191 Posted 22/07/2017 at 11:51:19
Ian (#184), to be absolutely correct on Ross's situation, if he is still at Everton on the 30 June 2018, then the next day, 1 July 2018, he is a free agent and can sign for another club without any compensation to Everton.
Dan Parker
192 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:12:43
He's not worth £50 million with less than a year to go on his contract. He's only worth what someone is willing to pay...
Dermot Byrne
193 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:37:49
Tony (#182).

Your wage figure nudged me to remind myself that is £7.28m a year as opposed to the paltry £2.6m we have paid him. There any sympathy for his "terrible" dilemma vanishes.

Of course it is the reality of the market but it does no harm to occasionally give the specs a wipe and recognise the absolute insanity. It is masterful brainwashing that keeps me supporting it. I sometimes laugh for thinking of myself as a socialist!

Anyway, specs back on. Any mega signings this hour?

Keith Monaghan
194 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:43:57
How crazy people still talk about Barkley's potential when at nearly 24 he's been around the Premier League for 5+ years?! Stop blaming Barkley's agent for this situation – his agent works for Ross, not the other way round.

It is evident in game after game that he has a poor football brain and he is mentally weak.

The lack of clubs queuing up to buy him shows how much in demand he isn't. Lukaku's career will be a success, sadly not to be continued at Everton, for whom he's done a lot more than Ross in spite of much of the poisonous criticism he's received on here. Ross's career is on a downwards trajectory – his best season was in Martinez's first. If & when he leaves, his performances on the pitch will not be missed.

As for Spurs – I thought they were great last season, but some of their players clearly have doubts about where the club is going – Kyle Walker to Man City; Dier wanting out.

With regard to comparisons with Rodwell, I think it's fair to note that his career has been badly affected by Injury problems (particularly hamstrings) both before & after he left us.

On a general note, I think our business this summer has been very good so far – however, I have a concern re our potential goals output in the coming season, & in spite of all the good feelings around the club, it's easy to be positive & happy at present.

Don't lets get too carried away, or too despondent if we get dodgy results in the first few weeks with the fixture list we've been dealt.

Martin Mason
195 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:58:33
Keith, of course he still has potential.

What inside info do you have on other clubs not monitoring his situation. What do you know that the press don't?

Dermot Byrne
196 Posted 22/07/2017 at 12:59:42
Seems we will be better this season than last and hopefully the following season even better as youngsters develop. I agree, a striker is needed but I expect to see that.
Don Alexander
197 Posted 22/07/2017 at 14:28:50
Phil Walling, I agree that "gelling" cannot be taken for granted but Koeman immediately "gelled" Southampton twice in consecutive seasons having lost nearly half a dozen first-teamers so hopefully we'll have that experience and not what the Spuds had post-Bale. But ya' never know! Up The Blues!!
Don Alexander
198 Posted 22/07/2017 at 14:41:12
And Martin (#195), I can't for the life of me recall any very good player who was still only promising as he neared 24. Can you?

If you could it'd give me reason to have some hope that Ross is not a lost cause journeyman. Like you I wanted him to flourish with us but with what's going on now with his attitude in not signing I've given up on him and after his performances last season I suspect Koeman has too, and rightly so given the terms of the Champions League qualification "project".

Two seasons left of a three season mandate leaves no room at all for anyone less than 100% committed to the club.

Keith Monaghan
199 Posted 22/07/2017 at 15:45:02
Martin – I, like you, have no inside information.

If Ross was really a diamond, given the situation with him not having signed his contract, a top club would have signed him by now.

Reality is, he's been over-hyped and over-rated in the media, particularly the Echo.

Regarding potential, Tom Davies clearly has it – yes, he's not perfect and still has much to learn; Ross had potential 6 years ago – should have delivered by now – his game has not improved in 3 years, and that's down to him alone.

Martin Mason
200 Posted 22/07/2017 at 15:48:30
Don, I don't see Ross as a player with promise. He's an international at ever level and has reached a level most players can only dream of and at only 23. When I talk of his potential it's the potential to be great. Now he is a very good player who is struggling to but could become great.
Eric Myles
201 Posted 22/07/2017 at 16:08:50
Dave (#191), to be even more clear, a player has to be under 24 (e.g. 23 years 364 days) and his contract term to have been fulfilled before the club previously owning his registration can obtain compensation through the transfer tribunal.
Peter Knight
202 Posted 22/07/2017 at 20:00:29
Don (#198),

Try Gylfi Sigurdsson, 28 in September, valued at £50 million.

Look at his statistics compared to Ross Barkley at the same age (Ross is 24 in December).

Barcelona could sign him for nothing and resell him with Deulofeu for a large profit.

Don Alexander
203 Posted 23/07/2017 at 02:04:21
Martin, Ross has conspicuously and deservedly lost his place in the England squad and has never been a regular starter despite 22 caps in mostly friendlies.

I don't want to irritate you in the least but just which player in living memory has all but reached the age of 24 and then blossomed into a player worthy of starting such matches for years, never mind the competitive ones?

It sadly hasn't happened, and I sadly expect Barkley to end up as a memorable (to Toffees fans only) "could-have-been". I wish it wasn't so.

Andrew Keatley
204 Posted 23/07/2017 at 02:43:06
Don (#203) - Not sure I've understood what you mean by:

"... which player in living memory has all but reached the age of 24 and then blossomed into a player worthy of starting such matches for years, never mind the competitive ones?"

Are you asking what players have only realised their potential once they've reached 24+?

It might not be the norm, but it does happen. Drogba was one. Victor Moses had his best ever season playing in a new position last year at the age of 26.

Miroslav Klose wasn't exactly pulling up any trees until he was 23; Luca Toni until he was 25. Ian Wright was pretty much a nobody until Crystal Palace's FA Cup Final in 1990 – when he was 26. Les Ferdinand wasn't a regular top flight footballer until his mid-twenties.

Closer to home, our own Marco Materazzi was a very late starter. Leon Osman didn't hold down a regular spot for us until he was 24.

Not much was expected of these players based on their youth careers (with the exception of Victor Moses, who was a very hot property), while Barkley has had the eyes of the world on him from a very young age.

What happens to Ross is going to be interesting to see. I'd love him to find a way to realise his potential, but sadly I agree with your assessment that his story will be one of "could-have-been". But, as long as he is one of ours, I will always live in (slowly evaporating) hope.

Stan Schofield
205 Posted 23/07/2017 at 10:51:05
None of us know whether Barkley has or hasn't reached his pinnacle. All we know is that he's a very good player on his day, occasionally brilliant, but inconsistent to date.

It's simply futile to make predictions of how his future will pan out. It's just empty guessing, with zero information content.

It's also daft to claim that top clubs aren't interested in him. According to press reports (if you take them seriously), Arsenal, Spurs and Man Utd are interested.

Martin Mason
206 Posted 23/07/2017 at 10:54:06
Don, Ross is a full International who has been best in his age group at every level; that he hasn't been picked recently doesn't change that. He doesn't have "promise" now, he had that when he kicked his first ball and he has fulfilled that promise by becoming a top Premier League player.

He hasn't reached his full potential yet though and that is the step he has to take; he may never achieve it but the potential is there. Even the marvellous Paul Scholes didn't reach his full potential by Ross's age.

I understand why people do criticise Ross and I believe it is frustration because he hasn't managed yet to reach his massive potential but it isn't his fault; he is what he is and it is grossly unfair to criticise him for not meeting our own irrational expectations of him. Remember though he cost us nothing so a lot of the criticism is crazy.

Enough on Ross for me as I'm in circular mode now. I just wish him the best and that it is Everton who take him to the next level and stop using the 1960s management manual based on bullying. That isn't how you get the best now.

Trevor Peers
207 Posted 23/07/2017 at 11:14:45
Bournemouth would be the ideal club for Ross: no pressure, a kind-hearted lovely manager... just perfect.
Don Alexander
208 Posted 23/07/2017 at 11:26:03
Andrew Keatley, thanks, they'd slipped my mind and did indeed flourish as they went into the back end of their twenties. Hope Ross Barkley does the same, for us, but the way he's behaving it looks like he's unwilling to be part of the club's future.

Martin's "bullying management" inference is unproven but, if it's the case with Koeman, the "mollycoddling management" system exemplified in Ross's case by Martinez did zilch for his development, did it?

By the terms of his own three year contract Koeman cannot be expected to tolerate any player who won't or can't quickly adapt to his methods and Koeman gave Ross plenty of chances last season.

Stan Schofield
209 Posted 23/07/2017 at 12:48:07
Most managers seem to talk a lot of shite, especially with the number of press conferences and other vehicles of chit-chat. Martinez talked a lot of shite. Koeman has talked a fair bit of shite, a different kind of shite from Martinez, and some of it to do with Barkley.

What I'd like to see is quite a bit less shite being talked, whether it be smoke-up-the-arse variety or the variety that really pisses players off, and more action being demonstrated on the pitch.

Will Mabon
210 Posted 23/07/2017 at 15:25:58
"What I'd like to see is quite a bit less shite being talked, whether it be smoke-up-the-arse variety or the variety that really pisses players off, and more action being demonstrated on the pitch."

I agree. There's no excuse nowadays for managers to put their foot in it (unless intended). It shouldn't be hard to stick to relevant summary, and be realistically positive about the team without phenominalisms or petulance.

Barry Jones
211 Posted 24/07/2017 at 01:42:45
Time to stop messing about. Sell Barkley, buy Sigurdsson, regardless of price difference, age difference and Ross's potential, which we don't have the time and patience to realise any more, particularly as he wants out.
Lee Jamieson
212 Posted 24/07/2017 at 15:57:08
Is Sigurdsson really all that much better than Ross? His stats don't look much different to me. They are three goals apart this season and almost identical the season before. Ross is younger, one if our own, and not costing £50 mil.
Dave Abrahams
213 Posted 24/07/2017 at 16:17:14
Stan (#209), the variety of shite that really pisses players off, is the sort that tries to make them demonstrate their ability on the pitch, but I agree it hasn't worked with Ross.

I am busy in my laboratory at the moment working on a different type of shite that might do the trick.

Stan Schofield
214 Posted 24/07/2017 at 17:54:05
Dave, if only you can come up with an elixir that stops managers talking shite. They're just like politicians.
Paul Tran
215 Posted 26/07/2017 at 15:16:57
Bullying? Evidence, please.

All I've seen or heard is him saying in pressers that Barkley needed to improve. He improved, his form dipped and Koeman again said he needed to improve.

There may be other things done & said behind the scenes, but until I see evidence of this, I will argue that this episode says a lot more about Barkley than Koeman.

If he doesn't want to play for us, let him move on.

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