Barkley facing longer injury layoff

Wednesday 16 August 2017  207 Comments  [Jump to last]
Ross Barkley could be sidelined for much longer after he injured his hamstring in training.

The 23-year-old missed pre-season and the start of the Europa League and Premier League campaigns as he recovered from surgery on his injured groin but he was on the comeback trail after returning to full training last week.

Barkley suffered a hamstring injury at Finch Farm this week, however, and is set to be out for a further stretch, potentially ending his hopes of securing a move away from Goodison Park before the transfer deadline.

With his current deal expiring next year, Barkley has apparently turned down a new contract with Everton and the club were taking offers for him to hopefully wrap up a transfer this month.

Tottenham and Chelsea had been credited with serious interest but his ability to successfully pass a medical would be compromised by this latest injury if scans reveal any significant damage.

The Daily Mail report that Barkley's torn hamstring is likely to require surgery and that he would face at least three months in recovery.  


Reader Comments (207)

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Richard Reeves
1 Posted 14/08/2017 at 16:46:38
I don't want him to leave and still think there's a chance he could change his mind so this is not the worst news.
Brian Williams
2 Posted 14/08/2017 at 16:48:14
I smell mackerel!
Charles Barrow
3 Posted 14/08/2017 at 16:54:05
Yes - all a bit fishy. I hope he isn't injured and isn't leaving as we desperately need him to add a bit of creativity to midfield
Neil Thomas
4 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:01:12
Yeah very odd hope he ain't caught Sanchez and Countino bug
Tony Everan
5 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:07:16
Maybe he is injured , or maybe he wants to leave on a free transfer so he can demand more wages.
If the former , get well soon .If the latter it is a shame because it weakens Everton by 25million.
Paul A Smith
6 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:27:57
I hope he stays but if he wants to go and doesn't wait for a free move, with the amount of money about now he would have to be insane. But we need him so I hope he stays.
Charlie Lloyd
7 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:30:38
It's getting messy.

Allow me some presumptions here.

Barkley is offered a decent contract, probably £80-100k per week over 5 years at the start of 2017. He wants assurances from Koeman that he will play week in week out in his preferred position. Koeman will not oppose the contract the club offers because even if he signs he may not play him and if he is sold on a long contract there will be a larger fee.

Lets face it. Koeman likes Barkley but is not into him like Martinez is. Does he reckon other players could do that job and probably better? Of course.

So now we reach the impasse. Barkley hasn't had his assurances and wants to look at other options. The club would sell because it makes financial sense. But there are no firm bids yet and now he's possibly injured and may not pass a medical.

My last presumption, prediction really. Interested parties were waiting for deadline day then would offer around £20-25m. The injury may stop these possible offers and leaves the club facing Barkley leaving for a lot less in January or nothing next summer unless he can be convinced to sign.

To repeat myself. What a mess.

James Macdonald
8 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:32:38
I understand any serious hamstring injury will show up on a scan so this almost certainly genuine and does not have the hand of Levy on it. I am. It aware Ross has had any hamstring issues before so fingers crossed this is a one off as it seems to be an unshakeable curse for many players a la aguero, James mac and Roswell. Unfortunately for Ross if this is at all serious then the move is off at least until January.
Tony Twist
10 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:51:45
Big loss...money wise... for Everton, not for Barkley. Shame really as although his progression has stalled somewhat I think we now have a team that would suit his style of play more. The grass ain't always greener Ross.
Will Mabon
11 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:53:50
Brian - not me.

This is all fully believable. I would neither suspect anyone in the club of engineering some sort of reverse/come-down, nor suspect Barkley's camp of trying to miss a transfer window. Any other scenario anyone else could suggest, I'd not suspect that either.

Mike Gwyer
12 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:55:29

Odds of just over 2 to 1 that Ross stays at Everton are still available with SkyBet, they are also offering odds of 4 to 5 that he's still bound for Spurs, by transfer deadline day. For me, the bookies rarely miss a thing so I'm guessing we are all in on some inside information and I can get some big bucks from our book maker friends or its a pile of shite.

John G Davies
13 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:58:27
Mike, try to put £50 on it and they will call the office before refusing your bet.
Jon Withey
14 Posted 14/08/2017 at 17:58:52
What a cluster
James Newcombe
15 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:11:17
That is so Everton.
Dermot Byrne
16 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:19:36
I have criticized Ross many times but maybe Rooney may be just the guy to teach him the missing parts of his game. I may just be dreaming but a nice "what if .'
Brian Williams
17 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:25:53
Are people actually blaming the club for this?
What say we hire a couple of heavies and force the lad to sign the contract he refuses to sign freely?
Lewis Barclay
18 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:27:10
Didn't he just have surgery on a groin problem? Or was that just a groin injury?

I'm no doctor but either way, what was he doing, in training, so soon after surgery/injury that could have injured his hamstring? Wouldn't this suggest our medical / physio staff aren't doing a great job?

John Otway
19 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:31:35
Well Brian #17. Unless I read him wrong James Newcombe #15 does. Why is this "so Everton" James?
Karl Jones
20 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:35:19
Interesting to see whether Everton now pull out of the Siggy deal. That would tell us a lot.
James Newcombe
21 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:40:27
Not blaming the club whatsoever John. I'm commenting on the poor fortune. Unless Ross has a change of heart, then he'll be off for nothing next year.
Karl Jones
22 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:45:08
If he has to stay this season, surely he'll sign a contract on more money with a buy-out clause.
Antony Matthews
23 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:47:46
Ah well. We will just have to sell Mccarthy instead. That's if his hamstrings don't ping again.
Phil Walling
24 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:49:35
On balance, I think I would prefer the Club and Ross 'to make up' and then pull out of the Siggy deal. The latter at £50M has never made a lot of sense to me !
Dermot Byrne
25 Posted 14/08/2017 at 18:59:21
Phil...no chance. Your logic on an other thread re Dowell says we don't play the likes of home grown like Ross. Did ask you why that may be but you seem to have unsurprisingly moved on !
Mike Gwyer
26 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:02:49

Definitely looks the real thing. Skybet have now hooked Ross into 7 to 4 to stay at the mighty blues. I'm guessing 3 to 4 weeks for a minor hamstring and the fact that Ross has played zero pre season, yep, just stuck a £40 on Ross staying at home and warming the bench at Goodison. Levy is a tight twat and he is definitely not buying someone whose injured.

Oh, shite thing is that the odds for the RS have just been hooked in for them to sign Gylfi. Mind you we are still 1 to 10 on to get the boy.

Eddie Dunn
27 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:06:28
I don't suspect anything fishy...sounds like bad luck and bad timing.
It is a mess though!
Des Farren
28 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:07:50
Ross is a distraction that both team and manager can do without. I hope he moves on. If we lose money on a supposed value of the player then so be it.
Will Mabon
29 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:13:39
Des, I'd rather he stayed, but you're right. This and the Sigurdsson situation are indeed distracting sagas and all rather silly. It also looks increasingly like it's all affecting the possible recruitment of a quality forward. Hopefully we'll be in for a happy surprise in the coming fortnight.
Colin Glassar
30 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:14:43
Please stay Ross and if you need to fake an injury I could give you a kick on the shin.
Martin Mason
31 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:25:08
I'm going for Occam's razor on this one again. No conspiracy, Ross has damaged his hamstring.
Jon Withey
32 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:28:21
His contract should never have got to this situation .

Get rid to the highest bidder in Jan I guess.

Phil Walling
33 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:36:38
Dermot @ 25: Ross was an England International well before Koeman landed the Everton gig so he hardly falls into the category of 'promising youngster !

Dowell was mentioned in the context of shipping academy grads to the lower regions ,never to be heard of again. You'll be bringing Ossie into the discussion before long !

Mark Morrissey
35 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:46:00
Off in January window for a lot less. Bag o'shite news this. I hope he recovers and gets his move. I like Ross and would be happy for him to stay and progress but I think he's made his mind up.
Darren Hind
36 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:49:33
Three weeks out would probably deter anybody coming in for him in this window – even though I think Levy is lurking with a really low ball.

Perhaps an enforced extended stay will give him and Honest Ron the time to kiss and make up?

James Royston
38 Posted 14/08/2017 at 19:52:24
If Ross has any feelings left for the club, whatever his grievance, and is so confident that as reported he wants more money & a fresh challenge perhaps he may consider while he is recovering from this latest injury.

Which club took him on as a lad, then coached him thro his early years to the point that he became an England international. Which club is paying for his treatment ( & Wages) during any past & present injury and it appears he will now need even more?

Okay, it may be insurance but even that has to be paid for. It is reported there have been no definite offers so why can't he do the decent thing as suggested elsewhere – sign a contract with an escape clause & agreed fee if he is confident that someone wants him. Then at least if he still decided to go he would go with honour & good wishes, that would give the club that has nurtured him for years something back.

Or could it be maybe he has been got at?

John G Davies
39 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:05:27
That's probably the end of any transfer for Ross.

We will never know if any club would have signed him if he wasn't injured. What we can say is they were not smashing the door down to sign him. Nobody stealing a March on perceived competitors for his signature.

Michael Burke
40 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:21:58
James, this is his job. Emotion and loyalty need to be removed from this. Will an Apprentice joiner stay with the company they trained with or move to the next company that offers more/ bigger and better things.

As I've said before, what players deem a bigger and better thing is open for discussion. I personally think the London lifestyle is a huge draw for many.

Darren Hind
41 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:37:54
Koeman ended any hope of attracting the asking price the minute he told the world that Ross would be leaving "100%".

Who in their right mind would pay £50m for anyone/thing when they know the palms of the seller are getting sweatier by the day?

I make no secret of the fact that I want him gone... but I'd love a few hands of poker with him before he went.

John Otway
42 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:37:57
In that case, James (#21). My sincerest apologies.
Brian Williams
43 Posted 14/08/2017 at 20:50:48
Darren (#41).

It wouldn't have mattered what Koeman said or didn't say. Pretty damn obvious what's going to happen when a player has one year left on his contract and has already refused to sign a new one and has also said he wants a new challenge.

What COULD Koeman have said? Nothing perhaps? Still blatantly obvious the club would sell him if the right offer came in and Barkley agreed personal terms.

You're Koeman bashing for the sake of it there!

James Royston
44 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:04:01
Michael, a lot of truth in what you say having moved about on occasions myself but I never have any private treatment when I was unfit for whatever reason.

None of us know the circumstances and who can blame him if that is his choice; meantime it still appears very suspicious. All I am saying is he could still move even after his apparent new injury is treated by Everton, just suppose it was to become career threatening ("hopefully not for his sake") what would Everton be expected to do then when his contract expires?

All I am saying is sign a contract with clauses and if the right offer comes along in the next transfer window he could leave with goodwill & best wishes for his future instead of under a cloud – as is almost certain to happen if the present situation continues.

Michael Burke
45 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:14:15
I absolutely agree with your last statement. Go in the right way like Cleverley did. It costs nothing to be polite and thank the fans etc. I sometimes think that people believe that Evertonians should play for Everton.

It just doesn't work like that. We all would on here, but that's because no-one on here is actually any good at football!!!!! Well I'm not anyway! Sorry if many of you are!

Guy Hastings
46 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:16:15
Maybe Ross Barkley is part of the Sigurdsson deal and just doesn't fancy it – surprised he hasn't sawn his left leg off if that's the case.
Paul A Smith
47 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:38:04
Clubs buy injured players quite often. As long as it isn't career threatening and its completely managable I don't see a small tear getting in the way of any deal if there is one on the cards.
John Davies
49 Posted 14/08/2017 at 21:54:21
Really bored with the whole Barkley thing now. Not bothered one way or the other how it all stacks out. Move on Everton please.
Brian Wilkinson
50 Posted 14/08/2017 at 22:00:43
Paul @47, Spurs will sit back and sign the player for much less in January, unless Ross has a change of heart and signs a new contract.
Tony Abrahams
51 Posted 14/08/2017 at 22:16:10
Maybe Koeman was thinking that he'd start a bidding war, Darren!
Jay Harris
52 Posted 14/08/2017 at 22:36:54
Interesting to see we still haven't signed Sigurdsson and now there is speculation about Barry and McCarthy going.

I have defended the board all Summer but I am running out of patience now.

Either we've got the money to spend or we haven't unless Bill did one of his specials with Rom £10Mdown and the rest over the next 10 years.

If we want to be top 4 we have to get Sigurdsson (or Mahrez) and a top class goalscorer ASAP.

John G Davies
53 Posted 14/08/2017 at 22:40:14
Tony,

You need bidders to start a bidding war.

Danny Broderick
54 Posted 14/08/2017 at 23:38:26
This may delay the Sigurdsson deal further, seeing as it is pretty obvious that Ross is going the other way...
James Watts
55 Posted 14/08/2017 at 23:41:15
Danny (#54). Obvious Ross going the other way? To Swansea? When Spurs, Chelsea and others are interested? Lol – brilliant.
James Watts
56 Posted 14/08/2017 at 23:43:53
Darren #41. Who in there right mind would pay 50m for a player with 1 year on his contract regardless of what Koeman has said? You're reaching there that's for sure.
Derek Knox
57 Posted 15/08/2017 at 00:39:16
We are all entitled to an opinion, and personally I think he is playing the system, which at this point, looks like back-firing.

Furthermore, I can't ever see him, sentiment put to one side, of ever being, the player that most people, think he is capable of being.

Ross's biggest problem, he actually believes, that he is a better player, than he actually is.

Some other posters on here suggested, that he stay, and let Rooney guide him, well unless Wayne is an accomplished Brain Surgeon, which I doubt, he will never, even be able to lace Rooney's boots.

The lad has got bags of skill, but seriously lacking, in awareness of his team-mates, and more importantly, the opposition, how many times do you see him beating numerous players, head down, and then back-heel it back to them?

Let's get shut, sooner the better, the testament, being that not many, if any, have shown interest in him.

Which brings me to the next facet, he claims to be a true blue, yet he has let his contract, or his agent has, run down, surely, he would have realised, that a contract running down, would achieve nothing much, for the Club, he claims to love.

I don't even want him anywhere near the Club, he is a prima Donna, without justification. My opinion , by the way.

Paul Kossoff
58 Posted 15/08/2017 at 00:40:22
Martin (#31), twas you who made me look this up you did.

Occam's razor (also Ockham's razor; Latin: lex parsimoniae "law of parsimony") is a problem-solving principle attributed to William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar, scholastic philosopher, and theologian. His principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected.

I thank you 😋

Charlie Lloyd
59 Posted 15/08/2017 at 00:47:33
Darren @ 41

I applause your consistency!

Charlie Lloyd
60 Posted 15/08/2017 at 00:52:14
Derek @ 57

I have to say I totally agree. Well said.

Terry Nolan
61 Posted 15/08/2017 at 01:30:12
Barkley seems to be taking the Micky out of Everton at present. Ross and Koeman had a falling out; Barkley was told he needed to improve work rate, passing, tackling (which is all true) to which Ross took offence & sulked so would not sign contract. Now he is suggesting he has a hamstring injury!!

(I'd take James Ward-Prowess over Barkley any day)

No bids have come in for him although expect some very low bids (£20-25mil) last week of August from either Spurs/Chelsea.

Sigurdsson... Move on. It's been too long process clear Swansea don't want to sell at 1st they accepted £40 mill offer then asked for £45mill now want £50 mill Much better younger players around & cheaper?

Need new striker as we are light weight upfront, expect we shall bring in shit players as squad members towards end of transfer window!!!!

I heard a rumour we are after Dolberg (Ajax) would be good signing for future & keep Davy company???

Bill Watson
62 Posted 15/08/2017 at 01:35:45
Reading between the lines of comments Everton and England coaches have made, I get the impression they think he's not the sharpest tool in the box.
Dan Parker
63 Posted 15/08/2017 at 02:34:53
I held this lad up as potentially better than Rooney and the one to stick around and become a legend over a long career. The irony.

I'm delighted to have Wayne back but would love to see Ross and Wayne linking up, can't imagine what's going on in his head. Personally I find the whole affair really sad all around.

Daniel Lim
64 Posted 15/08/2017 at 02:39:26
It might sound trivia, but have the club learnt something, ie, offer players contracts that would end before the age where we can at least get some development fee (is it 23?). And if they are good enough, any subsequent contract should tie them up for at least a couple of years beyond the 23-years-old mark. Although it won't be a lot but at least we are looking at something like £1M instead of zero?

In the case of Ross Barkley, his contract would have ended last month, and any club that comes in for him have to pay the £1M.

Mike Kennedy
65 Posted 15/08/2017 at 03:59:41
I believe it to be a real injury and the upshot is Everton have lost £25m.

All potential suitors will wait till January to see if he is fit (groin and hamstring recently) and regains form (if played). He will go for a song then.

Ernie Baywood
66 Posted 15/08/2017 at 04:11:42
Or just sign a pre-contract deal. All signs point to him not being in a great rush to make decisions or push the situation.
Matt Traynor
67 Posted 15/08/2017 at 05:04:30
Ernie #66, I believe Ross can only sign a pre-contract deal in January with an overseas club.
Alan J Thompson
68 Posted 15/08/2017 at 06:00:35
Does it matter as, next season, it will be the manager who is negotiating a new contract?
John G Davies
69 Posted 15/08/2017 at 06:58:10
http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/evertons-under-23-squad-buy-13476274

Looks like Unsy is instilling proper values into the kids.
A credit to the club and the city.

Will Mabon
70 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:15:45
"Barkley was told he needed to improve work rate, passing, tackling (which is all true). "

And still this continues.

It can safely be said that just about everyone in the team/squad needed to up their game after how things had eroded under Martinez.

Who can point me to the unending threads ripping the crap out of all the other team members? Who can point me to where Koeman publicly identified individuals that "Needed to improve"... even after they did "Improve"?

Perhaps I could be reminded of the other players that improved so markedly as to leave Barkley's ineptitude glowing like a beacon, showing him as the worst player in the team? Despite his season stats showing the opposite in comparison with some of the better players in the league.

I also don't remember anyone in our defence being subject to analysis... missed tackles, mistakes made leading to conceded goals, times caught out of position. How about Koeman giving Mirallas a public kicking for his lack of improvement... did I miss that?

Okay, so Barkley hasn't become Rooney 2. How many have? How many other top Premier League teams have recently brought players right through their own academy that have reached Barkley's level, played for England? A small number.

I wonder what Koeman's saying to Klaassen? Will we get to hear him tear a strip off him eventually? How long is his improvement licence?


Barkley's shite – Okay. Barkley "Wants to leave" – Okay. He's holding the club to ransom – Okay. He should have spoken out in public – Okay. He'll end up at Stoke – Okay. He's dumb – Okay.

It's really getting rather old.

Darren Hind
71 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:26:24
"You're Koeman bashing for the sake of it."

Hmmm... let's see.

Who delayed the contract offer, saying it would be discussed in the summer?

Who issued the ultimatum – "Sign or be sold"– a ridiculously short time after the offer was made?

Who issued a very public deadline? – "Go on, Ron, you tell 'em!"

Who repeated the threat he would be sold "100%" – Why the fuck would he do that?

Who (when all other concerned parties have maintained a dignified professional silence) has opened his gob to the press... repeatedly?

Who , was then forced into a humiliating climb down: "When I said he was 100% going, what I REALLY meant was 50% ... ish ... maybe less. He could well be staying – who knows?"

It may be possible to blame somebody else for outlining the club's position to the rest of the world and turning what should be a private wrangle into a very public mess... but who? While the guy who does not get involved in contracts has found it impossible to keep his gob shut about this one. Nobody else has said a word.

Peter Lee
72 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:30:23
I gather that you rate him and believe him to have been unfairly treated, Will?

Many differ, including the only one that matters.

Bad tear equals three months out. We get nothing for him eventually. That's the bad news.

Will Mabon
73 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:44:44
Seems so, Peter.

Do you rate everyone else in the team as having improved much more than Barkley under Koeman?

Mike Green
74 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:44:59
Derek Knox #57 - I totally agree.

Barkley has still got a year to run on his current contract. He turned down what was reportedly a club record deal months ago. There can only be one party that is therefore running the clock down and that is Barkley and his advisors.

This latest development will probably stall any deal and lead to him running it down altogether now which is totally his prerogative, but don't blame the club that has brought him on, given him his chance, helped develop him into an international footballer and offered him a lucrative deal which he has refused to sign.

The ball is firmly in Barkley's court and he kicked it into the long grass some time ago.

Martin Nicholls
75 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:50:27
Will - could it be that Koeman saw the potential for huge improvement in Barkley that he did not see in others and that, rather than the somewhat absurd claim of victimisation, was the motive for his approach?

Darren (#41) – and metaphorically speaking, no doubt Koeman would love a few games of Football Manager with you!

Will Mabon
76 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:51:19
Mike -

"Reportedly".

Perhaps it's not about money?

Christopher Marston
77 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:54:56
In light of this, I think it is safe to say that RB will not be going to the World Cup next summer.
James Watts
78 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:57:03
Darren #71. Let's dance.

Who delayed the contract offer, saying it would be discussed in the summer ? Unless im very much mistaken new contracts are up to the board. The offer was made months before the summer came round. Hardly Koemans fault.

Who issued the ultimatum - "sign or be sold" - a ridiculously short time after the offer was made ? What was wrong with that? If a contract was offered a few weeks later he hadn't signed then fair enough I say as Ross was obviously hesitating. For whatever the reason.

Who issued a very public deadline ? - "Go on Ron you tell em" Again. What's wrong with that? Koeman was repeatedly asked about Ross. Koeman wanted to know where he and Everton stood as they were obviously planning for the following season.

Who repeated the threat he would be sold "100%" - Why the fuck would he do that ? I counter, why wouldn't he? That was when they returned to pre season if I'm not mistaken and it was in reply to 'Will Ross be sold?' question.

Who (when all other concerned parties have maintained a dignified professional silence) has open his gob to the press . .repeatedly ? When he's been repeatadley asked over and over again. Again, what's wrong with answering the questions as honestly as he can?

Who then, was forced into a humiliating climb down "when I said he was100% going , what I REALLY meant was 50% . . ish . .maybe less . .He could well be staying . .who knows ?" Now you're just making stuff up to suit your warped world. He said Ross was a good player and would be part of the team if he is still here. Very different to your version of made up events.

Koeman has his faults, none more so than team selections right now but your constant bashing and trying to fit arguments into that mantra is embarrassing. Even by your standards.

John G Davies
79 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:57:23
Mike 74,

I agree, he has been offered the contract and turned it down. His prerogative. What does a club do in them circumstances? "Errrm we were only kidding the offer is really £20k per week more than that."

Bottom line is there are no takers at 50p ― never mind £50 million. Not one single bid to date. Despite the speculative comments that you will see how good he is when all the top clubs come in for him.

Will Mabon
80 Posted 15/08/2017 at 07:58:33
Martin:

How about Koeman's approach was "Somewhat absurd", if that were the intention? Because, look at the outcome.

He must think all the other players cannot improve whatsoever, or he must think they've all improved hugely. I suspect he'll think all "His" purchases cannot be improved any further, too.

This is my point. Excuses for Koeman, accusation for Barkley.

Brent Stephens
81 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:16:08
James #78 I like the way you dance! All very reasonable. Unfortunately as you point out some do make things up to suit their prejudice.
Mike Green
82 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:16:31
Will #76 - perhaps it isn't. Perhaps he just wants a new challenge, wants to get away from agro in Liverpool, doesn't like the manager, has got a hankering for jellied eels and a spell on the old Joanna. I don't know - what appears to be the truth though is he has turned down the opportunity to continue playing for us and wants to leave.

Maybe he's kept his council because he fears the backlash he might get if he reveals that he wants to go, a la Rooney all those years ago and more recently but to a lesser extent Lukaku, especially if he intends to do it on a free?

Liam Reilly
83 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:18:51
He only difference this injury makes is that the bids will be a lot lower come deadline day.

Keep him and don't play him unless he signs; there's enough midfielders to cope without him.

It's World Cup year and he needs to play.

Mike Green
84 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:21:47
And if he wants to go because he's got 'hurt feelings' then frankly that says it all.
Ian Jones
85 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:24:34
Re no other people at the club making forthright statements about Ross.

I seem to remember many years ago Bill Kenwright initially making statements inferring Wayne Rooney wouldn't be sold, then valuing him at £50 million, then selling for less.

Not surprised he is keeping quiet- He suffered alot of stick... :!

Phillip Warrington
86 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:27:36
He has let the club down. I had respect but the longer his crap goes on the less respect I have. He could have done the right thing by the club and said "Hey, I need a new challenge but I will help the club get the most they can for me for helping me become the player I am now."

Now, all that's going to happen is no-one will buy him or pay him what he demands... so he will leave for free next year, the club will get zilch. I say make him captain of the Under-23s and leave him there for the whole season.

Dave Ganley
87 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:31:26
We all have our opinions on Barkley and Koeman. Koeman is asked a lot of leading questions in interviews. Is Ross staying? No he won't sign a contract so he is 100% leaving. I don't suppose anybody foresaw nobody making a bid, even some of the lower clubs. However, nobody has of yet, media talk says that some are waiting to pounce, but media talk is just gossip, how many times have we been linked with players and nothing has come to fruition. Regardless of how much you like/dislike Ross, nobody has bid for him. Probably a shock to him too.

Koeman has put his foot in his mouth on more than one occasion. Maybe it's his blunt way, maybe it's his English, who knows. He didn't get Everton at first, he didn't get that when you talk about us your say "we" not Everton. I think he's learning though. He should have treated Lukaku the same as Barkley. Double standards is wrong. Lukaku coasted as much as Barkley. I think other players have improved under Koeman. The defence certainly has. The attack not so much. He as got rid of a lot of the attack so that says much for them.

I guess he wanted Barkley to improve and maybe hoped that he would with a verbal rocket in public. However, that failed as has most other things to get Barkley to be consistent. One off games that he shines doesn't make him a superstar. He has no heart. He has a lot of talent up showcases it against the likes of Bournemouth and the likes and only seldom. In no big game has he starred and taken the game to the opposition. He scored a couple of decent goals against Man City but then did nothing else during the game.

Ross is not a big game player. In the derby last year all he did was try and kick the RS off the park, lucky not to be sent off. Koeman sees what a lot of us see, a player with a lot of talent just not prepared to put the hard yards in to fully utilise that talent. A waste really. Maybe that's why Koeman fell,out with him. Barkley is not a kid, he's not an up and comer he's a veteran of over 150 games and he's still not a consistent performer.

If he has had his nose put out of joint with Koeman telling it like it is then I don't want him at the club anyway. Somebody who cries everything he's had something bad said against him, no not for me. Caves in too easily, no fight in him, no ill show you attitude.

Alas he's now injured and we shall be stuck with him for another 6 months. This is a bit like Deulofeu, the longer he doesn't play the better he becomes. All those shite games where he sauntered around, let the opposition dance around him and created absolutely nothing when it really mattered just disappear to be replaced with a parallel universe Ross Barkley where he shines in every match and he is the saviour of Everton FC. He doesn't want to be here so wish he would just go and find another club as soon as.

Will Mabon
88 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:34:49
Mike, yes - many possibilities, and we don't know which it is.

It just gets old to hear the same old diatribe. Many are working hard to defend what Koeman actually has said, and working equally hard to speculate at what might be Barkley's thinking.

Mike Green
89 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:42:16
Precisely Dave #87.

We are all different and have to be managed differently. Ross has had a few managers with very different styles and none seemed to have cracked it.

Twice in my career I've been told to "shape up, or ship out" - once in private, once in public. In the public scenario the actual words used were much stronger and began and ended in 'f'.

Both times my performance the following year have been my best two performances in my career. So, I clearly react to being challenged in that way, I don't think Ross does. But then again being oiled up by Martinez didn't work either so is it really down to the manager? I think the problem lies much closer to home.

Mike Green
90 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:44:52
Will #88 - agreed, all we need to know is he doesn't want to pay for us anymore. In which case we need to sell him, as identified by Ron a few months ago.
Darren Hind
91 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:48:12
After a season where Koeman repeatedly singled out Barkley for criticism, he further tried to marginalise the player with "If he does not sign, he will be sold."

Followed by, "He has until the transfer window opens."

Followed by, "He will be sold 100%."

THEN

"Okay, he will stay and be part of the team and the best XI will start the game." "I respect every personal ambition of every player, but still... He is training with Everton." "If there is an offer maybe the club does not accept. He is a really good player."

Yeah, you guys are right; No U-turn to see here. Some classics being posted here; "reportedly" ... is that really the best you can do?

"No takers at 50p never mind £50M." There's a fantastic looking Aston Martin in the showroom off the drive. Strangely enough, nobody has been prepared to make a complete twat of themselves by offering 50p for that either.

People falling over themselves to back this manager, no matter what, will have to be very careful not to contradict him – "If there is an offer maybe the club does not accept". The club want £50M. Any claims that there have been no discrete inquiries or cheeky bids are just pure finger-in-the-air guesswork.

Mike Green
92 Posted 15/08/2017 at 08:56:48
Darren - yes 'reportedly', because that was what was err 'reported'. Dictionary and Thesaurus in the post.
Brian Williams
93 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:00:14
Who repeated the threat he would be sold "100%" – Why the fuck would he do that ?
Why wouldn't he Darren? As I alluded to in my post, to which the first line of this post is part of your reply, is it not completely and unarguably the case that he was going to be sold. (Failing an unforseen injury, nuclear war) etc etc

There's no way even YOU surely can come up with a different plan for a player who WON'T sign a new contract, who has ONE year left on his present contract, and who has stated that he wants a NEW CHALLENGE. (Obviously with a new club)

Now anyone who thinks that anything other than the club selling that player ASAP to prevent missing out on millions of pounds is either daft, or refusing to see the blatantly obvious to suit their own ends.

And in your post at 71, you misquote me.

You quote me as "You're Koeman bashing for the sake of it" when what I wrote was "You're Koeman bashing for the sake of it THERE" which is important as I'm only referring to one particular post where you say Koeman ended any hope of attracting the asking price the minute he told the word that Ross would be leaving "100%" which again I say was blatantly obvious. If he'd have tried to kid on the club may just keep him until his contract runs out he'd have looked a fool and nobody would believe him because no club is going to willingly hold onto a player who could net the club £20m upwards.

He could have said nothing, and maybe should have but he certainly didn't, in this case, end any hope of attracting the asking price by merely stating what every man and his dog knew already.

Tony Abrahams
94 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:02:37
You surprise me Darren. Slag Ronald, for some of his tactics and definitely slag him for the style of football, on offer, but his treatment of Barkley?

Be honest mate, you always are, but before Koeman, managed Ross Barkley, had you ever seen the lad play two decent matches on the spin?

A dignified silence? Fuckin hell mate, at least Lukaku, had the bollocks to come out and say that playing for Everton, wasn't an option!

I agree with you that Koeman, royally fucked up by demanding Barkley sign, or he will be sold, because it's played right into the hands of the dignified one and the club, that I personally think he's about to join on the cheap.

Trevor Peers
95 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:07:12
Pointless arguing about Barkley's situation now, it's all history. As soon as he refused to sign a new contract that virtually ended his career at Everton.

From a business point of view it would be good news if we received a fee for him and I'm sure we will. As for his a ability I've seen much better, and I'm sure we'll find a good replacement.

Chris Green
96 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:10:46
I think for me, the thing with all this is some people like Barkley, some people don't and some people are frustrated with him.

Facts are... contract was offered. he said no thanks, I want a new challenge. So.. he has basically said he wants to leave. Koeman perhaps could have been a little more discrete, but for years we have talked on here about managers who have favourites and defend the indefensible.. we now have a manager who doesn't and people are up in arms. A bit odd.

if this injury is true, its a shame for us AND him. He is a good footballer who could learn a lot from Rooney or people like Pochettino at Spurs. Do I think he WILL!? Not sure.

Any suggestion that Koeman thinks his purchases don't need to improve is nuts.. we have only played 3 meaningful games. Grief. And MAYBE he saw such HUGE potential in Barkley he wanted to try and get it out of him.

Some people do tough love, some an arm around the shoulder. But from recent news/transfer spec... the truth is, footballers are a little sensitive bunch who seem to need molly coddling and pampering to get the best from them. I don't know about you guys, my boss rarely puts his arm around my shoulder, tells me its OK and blows smoke up my backside.. maybe a dose of the real world will suit him?

I want him to stay. He is Everton through and through.. but he needs to WANT to stay because of the love he has for the club and fans.. and I don't see that.

Martin Mason
97 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:19:45
Anybody in a position of strength, that is can find a new job easily, will leave his job and take another if he doesn't have a good relationship with his manager. That the Company has "looked after him" is irrelevant because he was paid for his services or as an investment as is the case with Ross

Most people who manage others are truly woeful at it and I rank Koeman or Everton in general right at the bottom for what I see as total incompetence in dealings with Ross. I'm with Darren in this instance. Unlike others though I really want him to stay for now, there may still be a very good player in there yet.

John G Davies
98 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:24:29
The foolish comments that Koeman had cost the club £50 MIL encouraged me to give a similar reply.

There is an Aston Martin in the showroom off the drive.
Your doing better than I thought 😁

Dave Abrahams
99 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:34:30
When Everton said they wanted £50M for Ross, how many Everton fans shook their heads and said. ' well best of luck with that'. I did for one.
Paul A Smith
100 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:48:43
How come loads of people seem to know how much Barkley was offered? Any agent on the planet would be reluctant to let him move before next summer now. He could easily make himself half the fee he is worth today by signing a free move somewhere else.

Maybe Barkley should speak and tell us his side of things? To suggest there is no way back with Rooney at the club is rather insane.

Chris Gould
101 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:50:30
There are at least 13 clubs in the premier league that would bid for Ross in a heartbeat if they thought there was any chance they could sign him, but they have zero chance and know this.

Above those clubs are us and the top 6 and I would expect that there have been discreet enquiries from at least 3 of those clubs. Nobody will put a bid in until they have got the green light from Ross or his agent. Everyone knows that Spurs have well and truly tapped him up and other clubs will be waiting for an opening. The lack of bids at this stage of the window will not be through lack of interest.

Ross will decide where he goes. Going into the last 12 months of his contract hands him all the power, and the club know this, as do Spurs. Chelsea could offer £30 million, Man Utd could offer £35 million. It won't matter as Levy will come in with £25 million on the last day of the window and Ross will sit tight until he does. Of course we could threaten to make him stay, and Koeman alluded to this, but Ross and Levy know that's bollocks. No way are we going to pay his wages for the next 12 months and then watch him leave for free.

Barkley and Spurs have all the power and one thing is for sure: he isn't going for the money. He'll be on substantially less than we're offering him. I genuinely believe he wants to play for a team that will help get the best out of him, and allow him to showcase his talents in the Champions League in front of an England boss who will be very interested to see if he can fit into a team with Alli and Keane.

Tony Abrahams
102 Posted 15/08/2017 at 09:56:59
Martin, that's one of your better posts, imo, but maybe Koeman, had put a lot of work into Ross, over the previous ten months, and was finally beginning to see progress?

Maybe he was fuming that Barkley, wants to leave? Maybe he felt disappointed by Barkley's decision? Twelve months left lad, and you're definitely not gonna be leaving for nothing, so he came right out and said Barkley is for sale?

Football's changed, the players have all the power, but it never used to mind me getting slagged off my manager, as long has he told me what I was doing wrong. In fact I prefared it to getting told I'd played well, because you already know when you have played well, or you should do anyway?

Perhaps Ross, thinks he's been playing well, but the manager is constantly demanding more, because he knows the lad has got it in his locker?

All speculation, but to blame the manager, for Barkley's failings, even though he constantly played him every week, just doesn't seem fair to me.

Tony Everan
103 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:04:17
Levy will be laughing his socks off. He will be offering us £10m + add ons and offering Ross £65k pw (less than we we were offering).

The whole thing is a mess and an unwanted distraction . The worst thing about this possible hamstring injury is that the saga drags on. I just want him to go , and in some respects I will be pleased if he is a success at Spurs (as long as it is not at our expense!).

Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:09:05
Tony, if Barkley, signs a contact for £65 grand a week, he will probably be getting at least a £10 million, signing on fee, to boost his weekly wage!
Sam Hoare
105 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:11:25
Such a shame. The team as it is currently is so bereft of players who can beat a man and then shoot or pass. Ross' s decision making is often a little off but he can beat a man and create space for others. He scored as many goals last year as Pogba, Rashford and Rooney. And as many as Siggurdsson if you discount the Icelanders penalties.

He's not top class. He's not as good as we hoped he'd be. But he still one of our better players and one of the very few attacking players we have now with genuine pace and power.

Franny Porter
106 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:11:38
I wanted him to stay, mainly because he improves the squad, but also because he's a Scouser and I enjoy seeing a Scouse spine in the squad.

What I struggle with is, the fact that he is meant to be an Evertonian and has just been offered a massive contract, how he can turn it down is beyond me.

He is either a brat, being advised badly, greedy or deluded if he thinks he's going on to bigger and better things.

Tony Everan
107 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:32:08
He should also consider that a year on the bench will not get him back in the England team . A year on the bench may dampen his athleticism and weaken him .A year on the bench away from the cut and thrust of Premier football and European football may dull his football brain. A year on the bench and new players from the under 23s and abroad make breakthroughs, and he will be in competition with them too.

If he is thinking of sitting it out I would massively advise against it if I were his agent. He has to keep playing to develop that top class consistency that eludes him. Sitting on the bench for a year is a scenario where nobody wins.

Far better to sign a new contract with a 35m buy out clause ,and get stuck in to proving what he can do. It may be unpalatable but would it be such a disaster if we dropped the Sigurdsson pursuit and handed Ross an opportunity. Then spending the funds in other areas that we all know need strengthening.


Tony Abrahams
108 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:47:33
Watching Everton, play so far this season, I honestly think we are missing someone to do the job that Ross Barkley does. Now that we have players coming towards the ball, instead of Big Rom, constantly running away from it, then it would give Ross people to play with, Which is one of the things that he's lacked in an Everton shirt, and why he has so often been crowded out?

James Macdonald
109 Posted 15/08/2017 at 10:54:11
Koeman never said 100% that Barkley will leave. He was asked by a reporter if Barkley will leave and the reporter slipped in a quiet 100% qualification in there to which Koeman replied "yes". He may well not have picked up on the 100% comment. As soon as the extent of the injury is known the club need to offer Ross a new contract and drop the Sigurdsson chase. I would feel bad for Sigurdsson as he will feel we have been stringing him along but the priority should be a striker.
Don Alexander
110 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:02:43
"Shock, horror - Levy awakened by Koeman gaffe!" is not a headline that even the The Scum would run, so ridiculous is it with reference to Barkley and his contract. Well that's what all but a couple or so of us think.

At the risk of delving into speculation, but in my case based more on what I see of him, I suspect Ross is a bit thick, and immature in his personality. If so I don't blame him personally. We're all dealt the cards we have to use in life, it's just that others get more aces than others, but it does make it difficult for managers when they have an employee who shows huge ability but no knowingness on how best to consistently use it. That affects not just his development but the team impetus for which the manager is more fundamentally responsible.

Koeman selected Ross often enough for him to do far better than he did. The likes of Davis must be so jealous of the opportunities given him. That's a problem for a manager, managing the expectations of other, keener, younger, consistently promising-going-into-good players when you have at the fulcrum of the team a non-tackling, shy, increasingly anonymous offensive player.

I don't know about a new contract. What Barkley needs is a top-notch hypnotist. He has it all but has little idea where to find it.

I think he'll crumble into permanent also-ran if he moves away but he'll need to galvanise himself significantly if he stays.

Paul A Smith
112 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:24:56
Darren is right about excuses made for managers, in my opinion. He's off before you know it. Maybe one or two more years.

And while he is here, he is buying players that are not worth much by that length of time. Maybe Sandro if he comes good and Pickford. All his other buys are worthless by the end of his reign.

In other words, by the end of Koeman's reign, is anyone going to spend what we have spent on most of his signings?

Brent Stephens
113 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:26:03
James (#109), yes, the way the question is asked is important (that interview with Koeman and the "100% leaving"). He was asked "do you expect him to leave 100%" and he said "Yes".

The word "expect" is not a guarantee. I expect we'll beat Hajduk Split on Thursday, but who knows.

Brent Stephens
114 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:32:14
So, "I expect him to leave" is not the same as "he will leave". The latter quote which is being used on here - did he actually say that anywhere? Maybe he did but I missed it?
Alan Smith
115 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:38:33
Why would he be on the bench? Would Koeman cut his nose off to spite his face, over a potential 50-game season? He has already said he will be available for selection if he stays.

I think the fans in general have missed the point. Barkley has not reached his potential in their view. However, if you stop for a minute and think logically, the level he has reached is extremely high.

His goals in the Premier League compare well to Gerrard, Lampard and Scholes at 24. He's played in shit sides finishing 11th and for Martinez. He's created 86 chances last season. Like it or not, no-one else in the squad was capable of doing the same.

If he doesn't improve (and McCarthy, Schneiderlin, Gana, and Mirallas certainly have not improved) his level is still higher than most, if not all our midfield.

People now expect loyalty from him. For him to sacrifice earning millions extra as a free transfer for a club that delayed offering him a contract. A fanbase that is constantly critical of him, and a manager who singles him out in public. I don't believe his feelings are hurt by this. And I don't believe he is disloyal.

Under these circumstances, when only offered £100k week and your supposedly worth £50m with only one year left, the logical step is to run your contract down, go and get a £10m signing-on bonus and £140k week. You owe at least that to yourself, your future kids and wife etc...

But the lad will probably go this summer because he's eager to play Champions League and go to the World Cup. Everton will get something and Ross a bit less than what he's worth. Therefore, he should be commended. It's Everton who want to sell, remember?

Our board must be laughing at all you numpties. There is a wage were Ross turns down Champions League football, competing for trophies and more recognition. There is a wage were he thinks "Damn, we will attract some top quality players if we are paying this dough. We are serious after all."

He has seen Lukaku and Stones sold, and Sandra and Keane come in. Sigurdsson... hahaha ha. Spurs sold him years ago and now they have Alli an Son.

Deulofeu got 17 assists from open play in half a season and you all never liked him either. But let's all blame Barkley! He should sign for a worse side, for less money, for a board with no ambition to keep its best players, a manager and a fan base that are constantly on his back. It's all his fault he wasn't offered a great contract three or even two years ago. I'm frightened at how dumb our fan base has become!

And as for the "Where will he play for Spurs?" Will Spurs play Wanyama and Dier at home to Stoke or against the bottom half? Will Alli, Son, Erikssn play all 50 games without a break, injury or suspension? Will more of those 86 chances be converted when he's giving then to better players?

Things like his mazy run that set up Holgate in the derby would be going to Eriksen, Son or Alli instead, and then converted by Kane. The whole perception of his performances will change.

To not want to see Ross play with Rooney, Baines and Davies is staggering. But this is the fan base that allowed the board to loose Lukaku and buy Sandro. Allowed the board to get away with having you believe a £140k week offer was in anyway seriously or realistically going to tempt a world class striker. It was tantamount to saying, "Please leave, we want the transfer money."

And you all lap it up. Well Barkley won't be bullied or played. He's stayed quiet and unlike Everton, he is making the decisions that will be best for him, in terms of success, money and trophies. So get over it!

James Watts
116 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:41:55
Paul (#122).

He's off before you know it. Maybe one or two more years. And while he is here he is buying players that are not worth much by that length of time.

*cough* Keane *cough* 6 players for U23s *cough*

And also remember. Koeman is NOT buying the players. Walsh is. Koeman has said as much. Koeman says the type of player he wants, Walsh finds them and then Walsh needs to convince Koeman on said player. Walsh himself said that.

The only two I suspect Koeman wanted without Walsh input is Stekelenburg and Martina. Maybe Rooney as well. So it's Walsh's fault if your putting blame out there. Not that we should seriously give a crap about re sale value anyway.

Joe Clitherow
117 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:46:06
Dave Hanley 87

Agree with every word. Especially the bit about having no heart and that's the penny that's taken longest to drop for me. Or more accurately been the conclusion I've been most reluctant to make.

The stuff about Koeman gobbing off having any effect here is pretty much all bullshit. It is only for our benefit. The real information on the situation will have been his agent singing like a canary directly to Spurs (most likely) and then pouring poison in Ross' ears in return. And Ross, bless him, couldn't blow his hat off if his brains were dynamite.

Obvious he has been tapped up for months, and the only reason no bid has come in from Spurs is because he is injured. Pretty classic Daniel Levy.

If you want Occam's Razor applied I'd say that assessment fits the bill pretty easily. Anything else is just window dressing.

Paul A Smith
118 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:51:35
I don't care about resale value at all Steve I care about being left with a squad of 30-year-olds worth nothing. Or to put it simpler not good enough. I started the post basically laughing at the needless excuses for managers and you hit me with 6, youngsters. Did he buy them?

Keane is one you might also be right on I would be surprised if he is worth more in 2 years though. Do you really think Koeman never bought Stekelenburg? Martina? Rooney? Klaassen? Or did Walsh also make Koeman give all them interviews where he praised Keane.

Our fans are in cuckoo land if they think Koeman doesn't also select players but the first instinct like I said earlier is to make a poor excuse for him.

I remember when Koeman arrived a lad told me I was naive if I thought Koeman was going to make signings, a week later Stekelenburg signed and Koeman was praising Bolasie to reporters. It's great for some fans though because when Koeman does go, you can blame him if Walsh is still here. Or the other way around. Thus getting nowhere in summary.

Jim Knightley
119 Posted 15/08/2017 at 11:58:04
Paul 112- What are you on about? Could posters not take a minute to think before they post?

So Koeman is leaving in one or two years but all the buys bar 'maybe' Sandro (21) and Pickford (21) will be 'worthless'?

So Gueye (27), who has been an excellent midfield addition, will be worthless at 28-29?
And Schneiderlin who is 27 also, will be worthless in one to two seasons?
And Michael Keane (24), a clearly superb centre back, will be worthless at 25-26?
And the 24 year old Klaassen?

Lookman (19), who has looked fantastic, will be worthless by 20-21?
And Lewin, who is currently 20? And what about Onyekuru, who may well turn into the big transfer coup of the summer when we look back in a few years, he will be ready to hang up his boots at 21-22?
And what about all the other youth buys this summer? All worthless?

You are spewing bullshit, as part of a peculiar attack on Koeman. If you are going to go at him, at least do it sensibility. Unfortunately, so many of the criticisms, as represented on here, lack recourse to evidence, to sense, or any nuance. Your post is the perfect illustration of this.


Barkley's injury is unfortunate - we could do with him, and we could do with him leaving for a fee. I still expect Spurs or even Chelsea to make a late move for him, and relegate him to a squad player in better squads. Koeman may have done things differently, but ultimately the buck stops with Ross. He could have been an integral part of an improving squad at a club with bright future - HE CHOOSE not to be. It's amazing watching the same posters who went at Lukaku so ridiculously, look for all manner of excuses for Ross. But there are some differences.

Lukaku was consistent in his desire to leave, or at least in his representation of it. The volume of comments and critical interviews was the issue, and fans rightly took umbrage. But then Lukaku scored 25 league goals, didn't come through the Everton youth set up, and always viewed our club as a stepping stone. Was anyone in doubt? Barkley did come up through the youth set up, and we've stayed patient with an inconsistent player whose end product has often been lacking. He has been quiet about his desire to leave, although it has been on the cards for a good six months. Lukaku made us arguably £90million - Barkley will walk away for £30mil, and perhaps nothing next summer.

I know which one I'm more critical of. Koeman has publicly criticised him - and? Some managers do that. They are footballers, not children. And was it worse for Ross? If I'm honest, I think Ross was never better than in a four month period from Christmas onwards. It was the only time he was a consistent asset, even if his run of good performances were let down by some pathetic showings against Liverpool and United.

So Koeman motivated by publicly going at Barkley. Mourinho would have done the same. Martinez or Pep would have massaged the ego. Some would have remained silent. But irrespective, Barkley is a footballer who will play under many different managers. I doubt very much that it is Koeman's style that has pushed Barkley away. I expect, rather, that he wants trophies, and perhaps even more money, and thinks there are better opportunities available. And he may get his trophies, but he is likely to sit on the bench of a Chelsea or Spurs, and he is likely to watch Sigurdsson or Lanzini or whoever takes his place win one or more at Everton.

James Watts
120 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:05:41
Paul #118. It's fine to disagree and rant. But you do need to check your facts as you're acting like one or two other posters who shall remain nameless throwing silly comments out there with little basis.

Keane is one you might also be right on I would be surprised if he is worth more in 2 years though. Seriously?? The way this lad has started and the way prices are going up you don't think he'll be worth more!??!

You're first moaning that Koeman is only buying older players. Then dismiss he brought in the 6 U23's. Which is it? Of course Koeman has input on transfers. But again, Walsh is in charge of finding players. Walsh has told us that. Blame should be placed on his shoulders if that's what you're looking for.

I care about being left with a squad of 30 year olds worth nothing You realise if Koeman sees out his contract only a couple of the squad he and Walsh have brought in will be over 30 by the time he leaves? Stelk, Williams, Rooney. That's it. So what's the big deal? They cost what 12m between them? And even if Gylfi signs he'll only be 29 by the way.

Now, you may think I love Koeman. I don't. I think he's ok but have deep concerns about aspects of his management. But blaming him for something like this? I'm nearly as stunned as when I saw DCL playing right wing back!!

Paul A Smith
121 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:05:56
Jim your missing the point and you should think before you post.
Absolute hype to call Keane Superb already.
How many that he has signed are going to be great in 2 or 3 years or are now?
He said himself we needed more 26-30 year olds.
Of all the kids you are on about he uses 2 regular. 2 mate. And signs another of his mates because he obviously doesn't think Kenny is ready.
Paul A Smith
122 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:11:09
120 James. We are paying 50 mill at 27 for Siggurdson. Is he a 50 million player at either 27 or 29.
We beat West Brom to Scniederlin. Nobody would have paid what we paid for these players.
What on earth are people on about with under 23s? He uses Davies and Calvert Lewin.
It was more about the players he has BOUGHT though.
Jim Knightley
123 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:25:32
Paul - Read what you write.

'Hes off before you know it. Maybe one or two more years. And while he is here he is buying players that are not worth much by that length of time. Maybe Sandro if he comes good and Pickford. All his other buys are worthless by the end of his reign.'

Saying that is not the same as saying 'How many that he has signed are going to be great in 2 or 3 years or are now?' You've said all but 2 of our buys under Koeman will be worthless by the end of a reign that you estimate to be 1 or 2 seasons longer. It's bizzare.

How can you not see the difference - words have meanings. The players will not be 'worthless' in 1-2 years - many of them will grow in value. Keane is a superb defender - he demonstrated that last season in the Premier League for Burnley, and he demonstrated it in the Championship too. What else are we to go on? 1 competitive game and pre-season with us? He has done well even so. I'd have him everyday over the error shewn Lindelof that United signed - he has cost them in several pre-season games, in the super cup, and is now sitting on the bench whilst Phil Jones plays, because he is not ready.

I'd state now that I'm confident in Lookman, Keane, Onyekuru, Pickford, and Sandro (given the price) turning into very good signings. I don't know enough about the other youth prospects, but many of them will do well if the hype has some truth. I'm also confident that we could sell Gueye for more than we paid for him now, next season, or the season afterwards. He is clearly a superb player and an excellent buy.

And obviously Koeman isn't using the 'kids' yet - these Walsh youth acquisitions are coming in for the future. It's odd that you miss that, despite the nature of your first post. In what world would we bring in lots of 17,18, 19 year olds who would join the first team set up immediately? We've already got several youth players involved -Pickford - 21, Holgate 20, Lookman 19, Lewin 20, Davies 19, Sandro 21 - And I'd expect Dowell to come back next season and be a squad player, I'd expect Onyekuru to push for starts upon his return, and I think that Kenny, with time, can be our number 1 back up right.

Our transfer business this summer has clearly been aimed at the future. Only one buy, Rooney, is over 27. The next oldest, Martina, is a stop gap. The rest all have the best years ahead of them, and in Lookman I think we have a future great in the making.

Alan Smith
124 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:34:36
Jim Knightley,

We've sold a world class striker, the England centre-back, and Deulofeu to Barça. I think all three are very good players. Barkley will play at Chelsea or spurs. His supposedly bad game at Liverpool was miles better than Gana and Davis played that day.

Your logic is flawed and Keane is not superb! He's not even in the England team! We've sold players to Champions League clubs and bought players that Champions League clubs don't want. 80 per cent of our starting 11 aren't even current internationals.

None of these players are any better than Cahill, Baines, Jagielka, Arteta, Pienaar, and Lescott at the time of signing them. And none come anywhere near the level of the likes of the signings of Yakubu, Kanchelskis, Ferguson or Lukaku. There isn't even a Fellaini standard of signing so far by Koeman.

We've also paid top end for players in their late 20s. All of their values will go down in two years, due to their time left in the game. And also because it was only us willing to pay the £28M for Bolasie, the £25M for Schneiderlin and the ridiculous £45M to £50M for Sigurdsson, in the first place.

Pickford may come good. He looks fantastic but that's our opinion. Facts are he's shy of 6 ft - 1 in and doesn't even play for England. I think he will but Butland may think otherwise.

The U23s are all unknown and none of them are good enough to start for a top 4 side. Plus it's Davis who is the best out of all of them, who was already here.

And by the way, Barkley, who is apparently shite to some of our fans, is miles better than all of them at the same age.

Koeman and Moshiri deserve time but at the minute they've proved nothing. They deserve praise when I see better players coming in than those who are leaving. And/or we see a higher placed finish and trophies.

Currently, Barkley is getting slammed for nothing, whilst Koeman an Moshiri receive praise for selling boss players?

James Watts
125 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:42:13
Paul #121. As Jim said.
Paul A Smith
126 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:49:35
Jim An James you are true believers. Good for you.
James Watts
127 Posted 15/08/2017 at 12:53:59
Paul #126. It's not a case of being a true believer. It's common sense based on facts. Not rants and raves with little evidence to back them up.
Alan Smith
128 Posted 15/08/2017 at 13:29:50
Sigurdsson is 28 in September. And wasn't good enough for Spurs when Spurs were our level.

These young players we bring through will all be sold when they are good to fund our plan of sustainability. Top half finishes with zero personal finance invested and zero risk.

The value of Moshiri's shares will double or treble in 15 years, trophy or not. The Baby Arsenal principle.

Wake up, people.

Jay Harris
129 Posted 15/08/2017 at 13:46:15
Well said Jim. The too many doommongers who just want to make a negative emotional outburst without rhyme or reason.

Koeman and the current regime may not be everybody's cup of tea but for me the difference in professionalism between the Martinez/Green/Earl period and today is chalk and cheese.

Geoff Williams
130 Posted 15/08/2017 at 13:51:29
With Barry leaving I can't understand the club not breaking the bank to retain Barkley. Barkley would learn so much from Rooney. I'd love to see Barkley, Rooney, Sandro and Klaassen working together and I'm sure they'd make DCL into a top class forward.
David Barks
131 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:02:42
Geoff,

What do you not understand about Barkley not wanting to stay? He's not saying the contract isn't good enough. He just wants to leave. This isn't about the club. It's about Barkley choosing to go.

Paul A Smith
132 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:08:06
Funny you should say that James with yours and Jims "evidence" actually really being opinion.
We finished one place behind Man U and sold our best player to him.
Name one we bought that is at a level Man U would want?
Alan Smith
133 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:12:01
Fact is, James, take Rooney out of the equation because his return happens under any board and any management structure. All managers would want Rooney at Everton, and Rooney always planned this return. But no other signing is anywhere near the quality of Stones and Lukaku.

Now you might, or I might have, have the opinion that Keane, Sandro, Schneiderlin etc are as good. But transfer fees and international selections suggest otherwise. And these are the only facts in the argument.

If the six Under-23 players we have bought turn out to be good, we will no doubt sell them. And then we will be back in the same boat.

Arsenal have been "building for the future" for over 12 years now. I suspect that we will be: "going about it the right way" for even longer.

Fran Mitchell
134 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:24:04
Paul, Utd pay 200k a week+ in wages, they are in the top 4 marketable teams in the world, and no1 in the country. They have a manager widely regarded as one of the best and most successful in the world and If they want, can pay 100 Million for a player.

You want to criticise our transfer dealings by comparing to Utd's?

Jay Wood
135 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:31:50
On a happier note, very proud this morning to see Everton trending at #7 in the top ten stories on the BBC's Global News site.

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-merseyside-40935161

The U-23 squad and EITC helping to raise money to buy a house for the homeless.

Definitely a story worthy of its own thread, Eds.

James Watts
136 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:34:18
Paul #132.

You state we'd be left with a team of over 30's with no value when Koeman leaves. We explained that's nonsense and showed why.

You ranted it's all Koemans fault. We explained how that wasn't the case.

Your moaning about older players then ignoring the u23s we've brought. Again we explained that too.

And so on and so on.

Now you're asking what players would fit into United? I dunno. Keane seems better than lindelof so far. I'd argue gana would work in their midfield. Probably no one else. But you forget most of the players we brought make us stronger. Which is all that counts and why we brought them. We're not as strong as United as we can't attract the calibre of players United can. Probably never will be able too. So what's your point?

Your posts have no credible argument to back them up. Which Jim and I have tried to explain. Not baaed on opinions. Based on facts. And you've ignored and flip flopped to other weird statements.

John G Davies
137 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:35:04
Paul A,

UTD players were not the issue.

It was your statement "being left with a squad of 30 year olds worth nohing"

That is clearly wrong.

John G Davies
138 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:36:00
*NOTHING
Jay Wood
139 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:36:13
Let me try that link again:

Link

Paul A Smith
140 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:41:04
No Fran are you kidding? A lot of fans think Barkley isn't good enough and happy to get 25 mill for him. But at the same time think 25 mill signings are good for us. Something doesn't add up there.
People telling me Bolasie Schneiderlin Siggurdson worth the same money when we have finished with them or at least after 2 years.
They are players - Signed- like I said in the first place.
Then under 23 players came into it. As if Moyes and Martinez never used the youth system. If their good enough they play simple as.
I cannot imagine Man United ever selling us a player with his best years ahead of him like Schneiderlin or Tim Howard for instance.
Alan Smith
141 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:46:50
Jay 129

Green?

Rest of you.

Nothing has changed. That's Paul's point I guess. We are still signing tesco players whilst selling to Man Utd who are buying at Waitrose. And our biggest buys have no chance of being Waitrose players. They are already proven at ages 25 to 28 only Tesco taste the difference at best! Moyes with this kitty would have unearthed gems.

As for Keane and Gana getting a game for Man Utd... Oh my God! One already never and the other wouldn't be in our side if we had any central midfielders the quality of past players like Arteta Cahill, Gravesen etc... Never mind dislodging Pogba, Matic, Herrera.

Brian Wilkinson
142 Posted 15/08/2017 at 14:57:08
If Ross stays at Everton then why not sign a new contract with a £30 Million buy out clause in it, if he still feels he wants away, the door is left open for him to do so, Everton get a transfer fee and all parties happy.
Ian Jones
143 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:01:52
We may be buying at Tesco as opposed to Waitrose, although Jordan Pickford hopefully will be potentiallly from Tesco's Finest range. Sorry, couldn't resist.

However, at present, I assume we won't be able to attract the calibre of players that Man Utd go after for well documented reasons, although some of their recent buys have been turkeys.

We are building the foundations, and getting our feet back on the ladder.

Geoff Williams
144 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:05:08
David what do you not understand that it was Koeman's ambivalence towards Barkley and his public humiliation of the player that has driven the player to be wanting away. If the players signed recently were convinced of the direction of the why not Barkley? Simple, he's convinced Koeman doesn't want him. Why stay where you're not wanted.
I have no idea what were the terms of the contract which the club offered Barkley and how they compare to those of recent signings but I suspect they are inferior. Reports suggest he is prepared to take less favourable terms at Spurs to play for a manager who wants him.
I may have missed it but I've not seen a direct quote from Barkley stating his intentions. If he has I'll bow to your greater insight into the situation.
David Barks
145 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:06:50
All I want to know is if the conversation above will be revisited if Keane ends up leaving for United or Chelsea or the like. Same goes for Pickford and Sandro. If they end up being sold by us in a few years to one of those sides above us, will this get revisited? Or will everyone forget where they stood at the time?

Because the fact is that none of us know what those player should might become. Keane left United as a youngster and has progressed into a very good player. Baines left us for Wigan and then came back, and actually could have been a United player but we refused to sell. Klaassen was the Ajax captain. It's unfair to say he couldn't have a very bright future. There is a middle ground between bargain shopping for a Nissan or an exotic Ferrari.

Paul A Smith
146 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:15:11
I didn't even see the Keane and Gana could play for United bit but that is staggering. How can you watch years of football, say there was nothing we could do about Lukaku, basically we can't stop players who want United. Then believe Gana could play for them.
James is pretending he helped Jim by saying 'as above' now its unreal.
I ignored the under 23s. How did Pickford come into it then
Don't even pretend to know how Lookman might turn out because we don't know. The EVIDENCE is he needs to learn as the manager keeps telling us. Plus he broke through at 16. He has ages to go yet.
And to use under 23s that have nothing to do with Koeman is just pointless.
Any manager will use the players in their cost free system if they are good enough. And whether he is here or not them kids would still be where they are now.
Paul A Smith
147 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:18:10
Ian 143. I can see that mate that's all well and good. If we don't win anything in 2 years or 3 at a push. Can we keep Tom Davis if United or Chelsea want him?

Or Lookman, if Jim's evidence of guessing he will be a star turns out true?

James Marshall
148 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:39:54
Bill@62

I've been saying that about Barkley since day one - not the brightest button in the box by a long way.

Dave Ganley
149 Posted 15/08/2017 at 15:50:55
I find it staggering that people are trying to compare our buying power to United. We all want us to become top dogs again. In fact, as I've said on other posts, I agree with Darren Hind in that we have such low expectations as Evertonians. We should be wanting to win the league every year not finishing top 4 or top 6. That may well be pie in the sky as the powers that be at our club have let us slide down the league for the last 30 years, in fact ever since we last won the league. Whilst others planned for when we were allowed back in Europe after Heysel we, as a Club, wallowed in self pity that we couldn't compete in ten European cup. The gobshites couldn't have done it any better.

Fast forward 30 years. We are slowly getting to a stage whereby we are going to be taken seriously again. You cry about the treatment Barkley has had but does anybody think his kind of attitude, the kind that sulks like a schoolboy when told off, is the kind of player that will take us back to the top? How many top class games has he had? How many good games in a row? In fact how many games against the so called big clubs did he influence in a positive winning way? Please feel free to answer because I am struggling to see which games he excelled in and I go to the games.

As to the players Koeman has bought, well as some have said, they are building blocks. It's laughable when we are trying to compare our buying strength to the Mancs. We have cash but not even remotely on their scale, or Citehs or chelskis. We can't buy 100m players or offer them 200k plus a week. Only the 3 clubs mentioned above can. I'd like to compare the wage bill of those 3 clubs to ours, the RS, Spurs and the Arse. You can bet your bottom dollar the gap is immense. Barkley fell out with koeman or vice versa because Barkley wastes his talent. You see glimpses of it the it just vanishes. The effort is minimal for most of the time. Considering Koeman supposedly dislikes him he played Barkley in a vast amount of games last season, probably more than most would have if they performed with the same listlessness that Ross did. If Koeman really wanted him out a new contract wouldn't have been offered. I can't imagine Koeman tolerating a player he really didn't want. As to saying Ross is just being forced out, he has been offered a contract, he declined it, he said to Koeman (unless he's a liar in which case I sure Barkley/agent would have made it known) that he wants a new challenge. Quoted in the press.

The players Koeman has brought in are players that Koeman believes will strengthen the playing staff. Players who won't cave in when the going gets tough. Mentally strong, something Ross most definitely isn't. He is getting rid of the fragile Martinez squad. The ridiculous tippy tippy pointless football squad that wouldn't know the meaning of closing down and heart and fight. Who knows if they will be successful? Nobody does. I guess it will become apparent in a couple of seasons. It's a start to make us mentally strong and put us in a position to progress substantially. One thing is for sure, the players that we had are certainly not strong enough. The have caved in at important game we have had recently. The future may be unknown but the past certainly isn't. Not good enough and to castigate the current players before they have even had time to gel, before the transfer window has shut and barely before the season has even started is just plain ridiculous.

Jim Knightley
150 Posted 15/08/2017 at 16:03:31
Paul - your argument has changed drastically. What has alot of this got to do with your contention that all but two of our signings will be worthless in 1-2 years? I've no idea why you haven't retracted that yet - it's one of the most ridiculous football things I've read - on here and elsewhere.

And what has United being better than us have to do with Koeman and our 'worthless' purchases. No shit - United, consistently among the top 3 for revenue, are better than a team that has finished 11th, 11th, and 7th in the past three seasons. That's why Lukaku left - because we are not as good or as big as United. And we did have to sell - what else do we do? Keep a player who constantly complains about going? Someone we seemingly turned down approaches for last summer. Who might refuse to play for us? Who can destroy the dressing room? Ignore a substantial fee that allows us to improve for the future? Look at Lacazette. At what is happening with Coutinho. What will happen to Van Djik and Sigurdsson too. What happened with Suarez, Sterling, Pogba, etc - players have the power, not the clubs, in most cases. The player club relationship has changed.

Our goal must be to bridge the gap by investing in young talents. We've can't attract Bernardo Silva, Jesus, Morata, Salah etc without UCL football and a bigger recent pedigree - we have to take a chance on players capable of reaching top 4 level in the near future (Pickford/Keane) or in 2/3 seasons (Lookman, Onyekuru), and get European experience. That's exactly what we've done - We've signed 11 players this summer - 9 of them are 24 years or younger - 7 of them are 21 or under. Those simple numbers illustrate the absurdity of your claim that our signings will be worthless in 1-2 years, save for Pickford and Sandro. On top of that, the arrival of Lewin and Lookman last summer/in January, both of whom have played in the first team already, emphasise our emphasis on young talents. It's no surprise that so many of our players were pivotal to England's under 20 success, and I expect that we will dominate the under 23s in the following seasons.

The Everton-United squad comparison is irrelevant to this discussion - What does it have to do with our signings being supposedly worthless in 1-2 seasons? I expect that United will fight for the title with City. I expect us to finish seventh and progress in Europe and cup competitions. But, for my money, Keane easily displaces Jones. A fit Coleman is superior to an often wasteful and rash Antonio Valencia. Gueye could challenge Herrera in the centre of the park. (They will play 4-3-3 alot this season). Baines is still better defensively that Blind, who is playing because of a weakness not addressed by an always injured and much maligned Luke Shaw.

We need to continue to do what we have done - invest in young talents, whilst ensuring that we make the right buys in problem areas. We've brought well enough - it's certain that all but two of our signings wont be worthless in 1-2 seasons. But there is work to be done yet and the Barkley absence highlights that - we need an AMC, a striker, and CB cover.

Joe Clitherow
151 Posted 15/08/2017 at 16:16:17
You're on a roll today Dave Ganley.

Well said!!

Alan Smith
152 Posted 15/08/2017 at 16:43:33
Very complicated people on here. We've made millions through transfer fees. Our revenue is double what it was two seasons ago, and we are supposedly now debt free, thanks to Moshiri's interest-free loan... which is debt – but I'll leave that for now.

If Bill Kenwright took out an overdraft facility from a Chinese bank it would be scorned upon. If Kenwright and Martinez sold a 25-goal striker and bought a £5M forward and chased Sigurdsson at £50M, the complete opposite would be being said now.

But I digress, the players coming in are mostly second-rate internationals or non-internationals. Opinions aside, they are not at the level of Moyes's signings. And in the case of Williams, Sigurdsson and Bolasie, have already peaked.

To say we can't afford a £200k /wk striker is music to the Board's ears. We're getting double, yes double the revenue of two seasons ago. Has the wage bill doubled?

Having sold a £90M striker, it's well within our budget to buy a £60M to £70M striker and put him on £200k. Or at least the £140k we supposedly offered Lukaku?

All these criticisms of Barkley I find ridiculous; "not mentally tough" – he's tougher than all those cool arses who love to jump up and scream at him every time he tries an unsuccessful forward pass. Who are you trying to impress?

To always want the ball, when the whole media, half the fan base and even his own manager think it's open season on him, is as brave as Terry Butcher with a bandaged head in my opinion.

You're basically insane if you think a 23-year-old with 5 goals and 86 chances created in the Premier League, whilst being played everywhere except his natural position, in a side that finishes 11th, isn't brilliant at football.

Do me a favour, go an check how many Lampard, Scholes, and Gerrard scored in the Premier League by time they were 23/24 years of age. And they were playing alongside boss players. Then hang your head in shame.

The away derby is the perfect example: Davies dragged off, Gana ridiculously at fault for two goals. Pennington and Holgate as wingbacks, manager fucks up. Let's all blame Barkley!!

Brent Stephens
153 Posted 15/08/2017 at 16:49:20
Dave #149, Jim #150. Pointless my repeating what you've both argued so comprehensively. Agree whole-heartedly.

Except to say that my mind boggles at "all but two of our signings will be worthless in 1-2 years" (not from Dave or Jim, to be clear). Pure speculation that only 1 or 2 of them will be worth playing for us at that point. Based on what I'm not sure. Why would they be worth playing now but not then?

Will Mabon
154 Posted 15/08/2017 at 17:06:53
Dave:

We know those players were good enough - we saw it in Martinez' first year. They didn't fold or cave in that season, they weren't fragile. We were perhaps a player or two and a season of continuity, from really mounting a fair challenge to the established order.

Martinez then flipped and lost direction. It would appear Koeman felt unable or unwilling to reconstitute who & what remained of the team... but it's not that the players weren't good enough.

Alan Smith
155 Posted 15/08/2017 at 17:08:53
Paul Smith,

You know you've scored when your only mistake was saying "worthless". Some very pedantic people on here desperately trying to cover for their mistakes. I think you meant "relatively worthless". Loss-making signings who aren't Waitrose's or even Tesco's finest.

If you guys are happy with that, or you believe Schneiderlin, Williams, Bolasie and Sigurdsson are good enough replacements for Barkley, Stones Lukaku, who are the type of young players we are trying to sign, then please revisit your logic.

And praising the takeover of a billionaire and then backing his sell-to-buy policy? Has the penny dropped yet? I'm truly astonished!

Dave Ganley
156 Posted 15/08/2017 at 17:24:03
They weren't good enough Will. When it really mattered they caved in at RS caved in at the Arse in the FA cup and only finished 5th when it seemed easier to finish in the top 4. Regardless of Martinezs flip flop the same team just slid down the league and performed awfully. Not a successful bunch of players in my book. They showed no heart or fight and were not successful and won nothing. This is the problem at Everton, we extol players who are nearly men. We need to win trophies and that's not happened in a long time. No Everton team can be considered good enough of they don't win anything.
Chris Williams
158 Posted 15/08/2017 at 17:30:47
Dave

I think you're right. My memory was that the rot started to set in before he end of RMs first season, and then things really went downhill progressively in the following two seasons.

Don't forget that was the best squad since the eighties!

Will Mabon
159 Posted 15/08/2017 at 17:48:13
Dave, I didn't say they were perfect, and a couple more players needed etc. However the highest finish for some years, and some memorable attacking performances etc. Goals scored.

We were roundabout where we needed to be to move towards challenging the top. Many of our players were coveted and talked about. It was a good squad. Martinez sank the ship, not the players.

Don Alexander
160 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:02:29
Once again Dave Ganley hits the nail on the proverbial. I've previously posted about the disgraceful end of Bobby Bullshit's first season, saying I believe the very players he then had were probably nearly all shit-scared of CL qualification because of the riches flowing in and the jeopardy that created for them in retaining their own places when better signings might have arrived. Call it weak, selfish or what, there's been a miasma of under-achievement in this club for over 20 years and it stinks.

Only Jags, Bainsey and Seamus still feature as regulars and Father Time will bring the close of the careers for the first two soon enough. Conversely I'd like t'other, Seamus, to be made captain as and when. That lad is not only an Evertonian but a totally grounded man. He's a winner.

I am optimistic for the next two seasons because I see progress on many levels. The new squad will hopefully meld to become as effective as Southampton were twice under Koeman but next season's squad will also, I guess, need several additions to get top 4.

PS; My optimism is in no way similar to Darren's. From his never-ending rant about Koeman he's looking about as optimistic as Corporal "We're-Doomed" Fraser was about Captain Mainwaring.

Dave Ganley
161 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:21:15
To an extent Will I do agree with you in that Martinez could fuck up a good cooked Sunday dinner let alone a premier league squad. Where we differ is that the players didn't need to be so unfit they couldn't finish a game. They didn't need to try and dribble out of the area when there were opposition players all round. They didn't need to wander around aimlessly short changing the fans nearly every single week. I get that they play to orders to a certain extent but to not show any kind of professional pride is unforgivable for me. Overweight prima donnas who couldn't give a flying fuck about the fans. On only very few occasions did I see that they cared and that came from the likes of jags and Seamus not the overpaid Stones Lukaku and Barkley. The semi final against the Mancs just typified what that team was all about, meek surrender against a very poor manc team with the much lauded Lukaku and Barkley the chief culprits in putting in the performance from hell.

We don't know how this current squad will shape up, we don't know of they will gel and win something or not, we will only know in around 12 months or so. If they're awful then a lot of you can say I told you so and I will gracefully accept any and all comments to that end but let's wait and see shall we. The so called best squad since the 80s just failed to deliver resulting in some of the most dire football GP has seen in a long time.

Will Mabon
162 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:22:09
I believe the very players he then had were probably nearly all shit-scared of CL qualification because of the riches flowing in and the jeopardy that created for them in retaining their own places when better signings might have arrived.

Jeez, Don. I have to call that a very unlikely assertion. You make them sound like the Teamsters. Do you think all Prem. players are that way, or did we somehow exclusively assemble a whole team/squad of them?
Tony Graham
163 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:22:40
Sick of Barkley, and all that comes with him.. offload him and get a settled squad..
We need a team playing for the whole good, not individuals showing off...
Will Mabon
164 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:30:22
Dave, I guess there you've raised something we never actually know for sure: where the manager's instructions and the player's input meet. We also don't know the fitness regime/structure that was in place at the time (though I think we could guess).

I still believe from my own time playing that a good manager, tactician and motivator has a large effect on probably most players, if respected. Some don't benefit or suffer so much but they're the minority.

Chris Williams
165 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:32:13
In all the times I've watched Barkley at Goodison over the last few years, I've never seen any fans jumping up out of their seats and screaming abuse at Barkley, or heard them for that matter. Never once.

Maybe I sit in a part of the ground full of tolerant saintly people, or maybe it just doesn't happen.

Geoff Williams
166 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:37:37
For all his faults Barkley is by far the most talented and gifted player at the club. What a shame the same criteria used to lambast Barkley isn't used on other players. He has never hidden in a game and always wants the ball. I despair with football fans who constantly criticise players. Stones was a victim of constant abuse. He was accused of giving away the odd goal by trying to play the ball out of defence but what have we been left with three centre backs whose idea of a good pass is to hoof the ball 50 metres up the field.
Paul A Smith
167 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:38:27
Alan 152 I wish I hadn't been at work and typing frantically but I admit I could have chosen better words.
I don't even want to argue or fall out with blues and its frustrating for both sides of the argument.
The fact and evidence of many a thread on here and social media suggest if everything was great there would be no debate.
Will Mabon
168 Posted 15/08/2017 at 18:43:11
Yes, thanks for that, Alan.
Colin Glassar
169 Posted 15/08/2017 at 19:23:59
Sessegnon (Fulham) is being linked with a move to Spurs. He's another young gem that will escape us, like Ali (MK Dons) and Dembele (Fulham) who went for pennies. What the hell is wrong with our scouting system?

Sessegnon is going to be world class.

Darren Hind
170 Posted 15/08/2017 at 19:35:09
Tony A @94

Cant argue mate. I think you are a little harsh in saying Barkley has never put in two good back to back performances, but you're point about him failing to deliver with any sort of consistency is pretty much incontestable.

but look at the midfield players Koeman has signed ? Gana and Schneiderlin HAVE found consistency. They are consistently worthless to us in an attacking capacity.
A lot has been written about Klaassen, but it appears to be more in hope than expectation, he is going to find it a little more difficult to be creative in England.
Despite Barkley's inconsistency and despite the fact that he will probably miss a fair chunk of the early season . I would bet (and I mean properly bet) that Barks will create more chances this season than the two tackling machines and the Dutchman create between them. I just hope he's here when he does it.
Koeman has spent around 65m ? (not sure of the exact fee's) on this midfield trio and lets not forget that could easily been around 100m if Sissoko hadn't knocked him back.
That worry's me. he is an admirer of industry, but Industry alone will not help you challenge the top boys. You need a little guile, a little bit of class, A little of what they cant teach you in boot camp.

Barks would be much improved player if he played with a guy who always makes himself available and takes up intelligent positions (Rooney) He may not be top draw, but he is the nearest we have come to creativity in years. Our clueless manager doesn't understand why he cant turn him into a packing mule.

My ideal scenario would be for Barks to stay. For the growing rumblings of discontent at the Zombie football we are enduring to reach a crescendo and for Koeman to be fired to fuck leaving Barks free to rekindle his love affair with his club.

Tony Abrahams
171 Posted 15/08/2017 at 19:41:28
Some good points Alan@152, but I'm not sure about David Moyes, and money though. He picked up some bargains I have to agree, but he had a good team when he wasted the Lescott money, and he spent a hell of a lot of money, on two midfielders, who never really complemented each other in his short time at United.

The Chinese bank, also seems a lot more businesslike than the offshore banks that Kenwright used, and maybe I'm also a bit green, for thinking Phillip Green, was lurking in the shadows?

Let the window finish, before we see how much we've spent, but after years of Kenwright, then the Arsenal model, would be fantastic to replicate at Everton, even if we all want more!

Alan Smith
172 Posted 15/08/2017 at 20:05:27
Chris 165

Were do you sit? The directors box?

Don Alexander
173 Posted 15/08/2017 at 20:13:11
Will (#162), sadly for us supporters I believe most pro footballers have their gaze only fixed on what's best for them but if, repeat if, success for their club and their fans coincides it's all well and good. That's how cynical I've become I'm sorry to say.

I hope and expect that Koeman and his staff can get the current bunch (mostly his signings by now after all) to lock on to club success being key to their immediate and near futures, just as it is for his. He's being paid a fortune but he's the first one we've had since the PL began whose had precisely what's required spelt out to him at the start of his contract.

That's why I'm optimistic and for now that's why I'll lay off the criticism of him despite the mundane quality of many a match. We are, even in one season, improving in terms of achievement but we all know it has to go way further.

Tony Abrahams
174 Posted 15/08/2017 at 20:33:21
Darren, I don't think I'm being unfair to Barkley, because until Ronald, started pushing him to be better, I had never seen him have two good games, even just consistent games on the spin.

Agree with you about our current midfield, but I don't think that Klaassen, is ever going to be a real creator, but I do think he's a players, player, and any good footballer, would enjoy playing with him?

He (Klaassen) moves the ball, and also moves himself into a new position very quickly, which can only help create space for others, which is why I think Ross Barkley would do better playing for us now?

My gripe is about people blaming the manager for Barkley, not signing his new contract, and also with the people who say Ross, must be fucking thick.

Fucking thick? he's obviously been told to sit tight and keep his mouth shut, because money's the god, and the longer this drags on, then the more noughts are going to be going into his bank account?

I might be 100% wrong on this, but a true blue wants to leave, and his silence is getting called dignified? It's really quite deafening to me.

Christine Foster
175 Posted 15/08/2017 at 20:45:12
Tony, I think the signing of the Stig tonight almost puts paid to any thoughts of Barkley staying, which is a shame, because I do think that, with such a stronger midfield, the onus on performance of the one creator is lifted.

It's a shame because I think with Rooney, the Stig, Barkley, Davies, Gana and Morgan, we have a much stronger midfield, both creatively and defensively. In such an environment Barkley would blossom (for the same reasons he would at Spurs or Chelsea or Man Utd) Personally I would cringe watching him flourish at those clubs, or see him star at international level..

He may think that it is worth hanging in there especially if he is injured and no one comes in anyway.. because if he can't flourish with those around him now, he never will.

Tony Abrahams
176 Posted 15/08/2017 at 21:00:34
Agree Christine, and if Ross Barkley wanted to get away from Everton, and the city of Liverpool, for personal reasons I could fully understand it.

But Everton football Club, "his club", are looking to get back among the elite of English football, and for the first time, in a very long time, people have genuine hopes for them, so for that reason I just can't understand this talk of a new challenge?

I hope I'm wrong, I hope Barkley has second thoughts and stays, but if a scouse Evertonian, wants to leave our club now, for a new challenge? Then I find his timing baffling.

Paul A Smith
177 Posted 15/08/2017 at 21:05:21
Darren (#170) – at last, somebody putting Barkley's teammates into perspective.

I also made the point earlier in the window he might have more movement and intelligence ahead of him at Everton now. Him and Lukaku were important but it was difficult for them playing close together because, let's face it, Lukaku was always stuck with 2 big yardies up his arse and he was basically the only target Barkley could look for.

Surely the players we have now would give any creative player more space in the last 3rd? With Sigurdsson coming in we could have a strong bunch of midfielders and Klaassen could then get the bedding in he needs. Who knows we are not better off if he sacks this non-dynamic 2 defensive midfielder system?

Martin Mason
178 Posted 15/08/2017 at 21:58:44
Being a Blue has been a millstone around Ross's neck because I think it's been the cause of the irrational expectations that we as fans have had for him who remember cost us nothing in terms of transfer fees. Why do we fault a lad who's only crime was not to meet our expectations? In not reaching the massive potential that he had as a youngster he is only one of the vast majority of young footballers who shine from an early age and don't reach their potential, only a pitiful few do. I also find it slightly odd for anybody in this day and age to feel that the team that he supports should ever be a factor in what he decides to do with his future.

He must have had a difficult time with this decision and yes I do believe that his silence has been dignified. My own opinion is that Everton are crazy not to see how he performs with what is a new team as it could be just the step up that he needs. Selling Lukaku was the madness that teams below the top level, like us and Liverpool, have to put up with; to now let one of highest potential players I've seen at the Club go just now is ego inspired insanity.

That he is a Blue should be a reason for us fans to urge him to stay not to castigate him for having the temerity to want to move on from a bad place whatever that place may be. Too late of course as I'm sure now that he's off.

Dave Speed
179 Posted 15/08/2017 at 22:25:02
Good to see that a lot of us still want Ross to sign and stay, and for football reasons not to get a bigger fee next summer. With so many role models to show him when to dribble and when to release a pass, he may come on in leaps and bounds. He hasn't really had that in his EFC career so it may just work. Hope Ross reads this thread and he will see that most still love him. With so many good players, especially defensively once RK has finished his business, and I believe he will, we could even accommodate his occasional fck ups much better than we have been able to. There aren't many better sights than a Barkley power run through the middle, and then imagine if there was more 'productivity' at the end of it. I drool at the thought. I fear though that Deli Ali and Harry Kane may be the beneficiaries.
Colin Glassar
180 Posted 15/08/2017 at 22:32:20
We are the silent majority Dave.
Martin Mason
181 Posted 15/08/2017 at 22:40:42
Dave, the important thing is good defensive MF to help him when he does lose the ball. Football now, and EFC in particular is desperate for the type of skill that Ross could provide especially since we lost Rom.
Derek Knox
182 Posted 15/08/2017 at 22:48:06
Sorry Colin, and Dave, we all beg to differ, but I firmly believe, as I have consistently stated on this site, Ross has ideas way above his ability.

No doubt he is talented, but he has this large lump of gristle between his ears!

Plus he has an ego, which far supersedes his true worth!

I don't think he will ever be the superstar, anywhere, to be honest, that he thinks he is!

Martin Mason
183 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:00:41
Derek, where do you get this information on Ross from?
Derek Knox
184 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:16:44
Martin, an opinion, which I think we are all entitled to submit, plus, coupled with observation, of his attitude, and performances in games, which I have also witnessed, as have we all, to be so inconsistent.

One good game every eight or nine, does not sit well, and that was when, he was being played regularly, for the Club he claimed to love.

Darren Hind
185 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:18:35
Nothing Baffling here Colin. Its not Everton Barks doesn't want to play for, its Koeman

Derek

You have no idea what you are talking about. You have never Met Barkley and you have never heard him say anything to substantiate your claim that he thinks he is better than he is.

The boy is shy and inarticulate like many young men are. That makes him thick ? I know who my moneys on.

Just read down some of the brain numbing comments on this thread, 99% of the stuff defending Koeman and blaming Barkley , is made up of guess work, ill informed opinion, and total pap.

Put up a load of direct quotes from Koeman gob and you will be told its a rant, but ask you lot to put up a single fact to support your claims and you all fail miserably.

Single fact to substantiate Any of the claims made against Barkley please ? from anybody who has made them

Ray Robinson
186 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:24:47
To be even-handed Darren, your theory on Barkley not wanting to play for Koeman is equally unsubstantiated - though I suspect you may be right.
Dave Speed
187 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:32:36
Putting the personals aside, I'll say again that I, like many, would love Ross to sign and do it for EFC rather then Spurs or one of the others. We have seen the brilliant football that he is capable of. All we want is more of it, and all RK wants is more of it. They don't have to like each other, and I've read nothing that says what each thinks of the other. It's all urban myth, paper talk and fisherman's tales describing how they feel about each other. If Ross feels that he has a better chance of trophies elsewhere then good luck to him. But again I'd rather he stayed. We'll read the truth in one or the other's autobiography in a few years.
Brian Williams
188 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:33:29
Nothing Baffling here Colin. Its not Everton Barks doesn't want to play for, its Koeman.

Unsubstantiated OPINION!

Just read down some of the brain numbing comments on this thread, 99% of the stuff defending Koeman and blaming Barkley , is made up of guess work, ill informed opinion, and total pap.

Unintended irony at it's very best!

Darren Hind
189 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:33:52
True Ray

My latest theory is unsubstantiated, but I put up a load of quotes made by Koeman. They are incontestable - although, incredibly, some tried.

I want one person on here to come on and back up the claims made against Barkley

Brian Williams
190 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:41:03
You should first back up your claim Darren, that he doesn't want to play for Koeman, if you want others to do the same on their theories.
But the point is theirs, and yours, are just that, theories, opinions none more or less valid than any others.
My own theory, unsubstantiated but from a person who knows Ross well, is that it's no more dramatic than being all about the money!
Brent Stephens
191 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:44:17
Darren #185 "Put up a load of direct quotes on Koeman and you will be told its a rant".

You put up what purported to be a direct quote from Koeman that Ross "will" leave. Now I honestly don't know whether Koeman said Barkley "will" move but I did see he definitely said that he "expected" him to leave, which isn't the same thing, clearly. When you "quoted" Koeman as saying Ross "will" leave, was that an accurate direct quote? Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I don't know. Just looking for clarification.

Darren Hind
192 Posted 15/08/2017 at 23:46:26
Brian @188

"Unintended irony at it very best"

You've had a lot to say, wanna go first ?

Want to tell us where you heard Barkley say he wanted a new challenge ? or say anything for that matter ?

Na, didn't think so

James Watts
193 Posted 16/08/2017 at 00:26:05
Brent, Brian and Co. Why bother trying to argue with Darren? You do realize if Barkley was fit, signed a whopping 5 year contract and was playing in the first xi he would still be on here bleating about Koeman playing him as he's shite & not worth a 5 year contract? In other words no matter what you say, how reasonable your argument is because of Darrens hatred of Koeman he will always find a stick to beat him with?

Just wait until Gylfi has a bad game, the joy he'll have beating koeman over the head with it will be excruciating.

Once you realize all that you'll understand Darrens posts for what they are.

Darren Hind
194 Posted 16/08/2017 at 00:30:22
still nobody then ?
John G Davies
195 Posted 16/08/2017 at 00:32:46
Have you met Barkley Darren?
Don Alexander
196 Posted 16/08/2017 at 01:30:24
Darren's acquaintance with someone rational is, I suspect, limited to him looking in the mirror.
Don Alexander
197 Posted 16/08/2017 at 01:31:49
.And in a way I like the guy, genuinely!
Karl Masters
198 Posted 16/08/2017 at 02:32:57
One of the most mind numbing threads you could ever wish to read this.

Maybe Ross reads ToffeeWeb and wants to get away from a load of us middle-aged/old men bickering for days on end about things we know very little about?

Tony Abrahams
199 Posted 16/08/2017 at 07:28:58
Darren, your last paragraph at 185, is the reason people say no comment in a police interview room!
Dave Ganley
200 Posted 16/08/2017 at 08:07:07
I've reasoned an arguement against what you've said many times Darren so won't go into it again. Most of us have said many times also that Ross is a talented boy and it's not the fact that he's local that he gets a hard time off some of us, it's the fact that 150 plus games into his career he still can't find any consitency for a variety of managers, some who put an arm around his shoulder, some who get fed up and shout at him. Doesn't matter what you try, he doesn't respond. The fact that he doesn't want to play for Koeman because he may have told him off just shows he doesn't have any bollocks for a fight and just leaves at the first sign of conflict. No time for players like that at Everton if we ever have any pretensions at getting back to the top
Paul Tran
201 Posted 16/08/2017 at 08:33:45
Barkley is an inconsistent player, who, for me, sums up many modern English players who have a gap between their talent, resilience and performance.

I hope he stays and learns from the better players around him. The only fact we know are that he has declined to sign a contract.

My hunch (ladled with my confirmation bias) is that Koeman doesn't fancy him as a first choice player. I'm pretty sure that Barkley knows this and is looking to move.

I disagree with the idea that Barkley is thick, disloyal, etc. Sometimes in life, its better to say nothing and I think Ross is taking the best course of action here. Anything he says would get twisted.

Bottom line is that a talented, inconsistent player won't sign a contract to stay with my club. Not a cause that I will man the barricades for. Good luck and move on.

John G Davies
202 Posted 16/08/2017 at 10:02:07
https://youtu.be/Bwk38srACrA

Great character.

James Watts
203 Posted 16/08/2017 at 10:47:49
Good post Paul. I agree completely.

I see the ever reliable Jim White from SSN has said his sources think Barkley will stay at Everton this season now. Expect him to be gone by 9am tomorrow!

Chris Williams
204 Posted 16/08/2017 at 10:52:50
Alan#172

I sit in the Top Balcony mate. I accept it isn't too far from St Luke's Church, so maybe we're getting some positive waves as Oddball would say, but I've never heard or seen anyone up and giving Ross any aggro, despite the endless provocation . I've always felt that pundits like Cap'n Pip,who say that we do have got it completely wrong, but they know sod all most of the time any way.

However I now see that Farhad's representative on earth, Jim White, is now saying that 'Everton sources' have told him Ross is now likely to stay this season . So let's see what happens.

Martin Mason
205 Posted 16/08/2017 at 10:53:52
Derek@184, for sure I respect the right for everybody to form their own opinions. In the absence of some kind of validation though they can be fantasy not the facts that we sometimes believe them to be. I would never insult the lad with this thicko label neither, he is what he is intelligence wise and he can't be blamed for that. I have seen no evidence to support the claim that he has a super ego in fact I see a very introverted lad who would probably be a lot better if he had a super ego.

Do the fans who incessantly criticise and insult Ross believe he is poor value for what we paid for him? Come on, as human beings be fair to the lad, some understanding of the young man himself and the position he's in. He could have signed a nice fat, risk free contract with Everton and yet he didn't take what was the easy and obvious option instead going for a clean start elsewhere in what for him could be high risk.

Steavey Buckley
206 Posted 16/08/2017 at 11:47:00
Questions should be asked of a valuable playing asset like Ross Barkley, who can suffer not just one serious injury but 2 in the last 2 months. Everton cannot afford losing players in training. It is bad enough losing players when actually playing in competitive matches.
Alan J Thompson
207 Posted 16/08/2017 at 15:49:04
Sorry, can't remember who said it but,"Jim White says Barkley will stay at Everton this season".
He's got an hamstring injury which might take 3 months to heal which might mean he won't be fit to play until December or January. That's one hell of a crystal ball.
Darren Hind
208 Posted 16/08/2017 at 19:23:38
Dave, I stuck to only what Koeman had said.

Yes, by later saying that Barkley doesn't want to play for Koeman, I was simply expressing an opinion... but that's what I was asked to do.

Tony A asked me to give an opinion; "Be honest" he asked – and that's what I tried to do.

There is a big difference between offering an opinion when asked for one and making unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations about a player in order to back the manager.

Dave Ganley
209 Posted 17/08/2017 at 12:50:24
To be honest Darren didn't realise that I had criticised you for having an opinion. In fact your opinion of Barkley having fallen out is probably right. Just that I think it's a bit wet from Barkley t9 want to leave because he's fallen out with Koeman (my opinion)

I never criticise others for having an opinion different from mine, just that I will try and say why my opinion is different. Apologies if I've come across as saying you shouldn't have an opinion, not my intention at all. Differing opinions gives us all lots to debate on this site.

Joe Clitherow
210 Posted 17/08/2017 at 13:48:51
Alan 172 Chris 204 and Martin 205

I sit in the Paddock, i.e. directly opposite in the ground from Chris in the Top Balcony.

I completely agree with Chris' 165 post in that I have never heard ranting at Barkley. I've heard the usual groans at all players from time to time for misplaced passes etc and I actually think Ross gets more latitude in general from the crowd than anything.

Still, nothing like generally accepted myths, on any number of issues, from people who do not attend the match in person to keep an agenda going is there?

Ray Smith
211 Posted 17/08/2017 at 18:56:27
3 months out with the World Cup coming up?

Perhaps Ross has given up on getting back in the England squad. If he is genuinely long term injured I feel sorry for him.

However, as in previous posts I believe he needs to man up. He's 23 years old, an experienced premier league pro, behaving like a schoolboy. For gods sake Wayne, take him to one side and read him his fortune.

What current top 6 team would he get a starting berth. Short answer, none!

If he can't see what he is doing to his future career I despair.

Can you see Conte treating him with kid gloves?

Can you see Pochetino pandering to his whims?

Klopp wouldn't entertain him, full stop.

Wenger has enough whimps, so another is a possibility, but unlikely.

Mourinho would have to change his attitude to criticising his players to stop Ross crying, because he can't take the criticism.

Ross, swallow your pride, sign the contract (it's not too late) man up, get yourself fit, and fight for your place. RK would respect you for it.

Not convinced it's as serious as made out. Why would the medical team risk him after a hernia operation. Mackerel!

I actually want him to stay, and at the risked of repeating myself, whoever is advising him needs to take a hike.

Martin Mason
212 Posted 17/08/2017 at 19:39:26
Joe@210

In a televised game I saw a spit flecked, foul mouthed verbal assault on Ross from a group of fans in the lower LHS of Gwladys Street with Ross well within hearing distance in front of them. I can't believe that this was an isolated incident and don't forget that he has been slagged mercilessly on this site which probably represents a fair number of fans at the ground? I'm sorry, I know that we all can have our opinions but I just feel that as supporters we should try to support rather than attack.

Clive Lewis
213 Posted 19/08/2017 at 11:30:24
I smell fish; however, they are rotten.

What makes these fish special is the fact that it's the World Cup next year and it shows the extent of the stubbornness from Ross. He is prepared to see out the season without playing much, jeopardising any chance of featuring for England, all for a free transfer.

This echoes his abilities in the pitch to lose interest in games and overplay everything.

Ross should sign; at least he will get an improved contract and valuable game time... if he doesn't, he could end up being thrown to the sharks.

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