Barkley denies undergoing Chelsea medical

Saturday 2 September 2017  457 Comments  [Jump to last]
Ross Barkley has played down suggestions he did a u-turn on a potential move to Chelsea in the middle of a medical exam with the London club.

It was reported that the midfielder had agreed terms after Everton had accepted a £35m offer from Chelsea but then pulled out of the move despite his medical being underway.

Barkley denies this was the case, however.

"Contrary to a number of reports in the press, I did not undertake a medical with any club at any point," he tweeted.

"I simply decided that due to my injury, it would be best to make a decision on my future and assess all my options in January when fully fit:"  


Reader Comments (457)

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Darren Hind
1 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:31:29
The "wet finger in the air" crew are going to have fun with this one...
Mark Tanton
2 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:32:26
Opens can of Kestrel and puts comfy pants on.
Peter Warren
3 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:34:29
So, after months of saying nowt, thanks for the clarification. Wish he had done one
Danny Halsall
4 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:36:11
Use of the word 'contrary' and correct use of commas? No way Ross wrote that. Completely playing the club to manufacture a move that he wants whilst getting as much money as he can. Can't wait to see the back of him.
Mark Tanton
5 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:39:45
Well the those West London Ruskies won't be back in for him after an evening of twatting their medical staff about. It'll be Spurs all the way. He has turned down the champions to get a move to a more glamorous, less successful club.

Toodle-oooooooo, mothafucker.

Mark Frere
6 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:47:20
His decision has probably cost us £20 million because we will be lucky to get £15 million in January.

Ross is well within his rights to run down his contract if he chooses. A part of me thinks Koeman doesn't rate Barkley to much and that's the major factor in Ross wanting to leave.

The cynical part of me thinks Ross wants to leave for financial reasons.

Mark Tanton
7 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:52:13
I agree that Koeman thinks he is overrated. Would Big Ron have spent nearly £50m on someone who effectively does what Barkley does, if he didn't think he did much better?
Joe McMahon
8 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:53:55
They may be local lads, but the club is in a bit of a shambles (for a change). I really don't want Barkley or Rooney at Everton, or Kenwright for that matter (another local lad).
John G Davies
9 Posted 02/09/2017 at 16:55:16
He didn't write that for a start.

"Contrary to a number of reports.. ."

Robert Leigh
10 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:00:36
I want him to stay, he'll provide some pace that we need – but also I just don't want to see him go elsewhere and be great when it should have been with us all along.
Steve Bingham
11 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:07:29
It all seems a shame to me that it is apparently going to end following this ugly and unnecessary media driven nonsense. Ross has obviously been badly advised from the start but he should have definitely shown the club some respect considering the wages he has earned from them over the years.

He will still be found out as a very average footballer, though, at whichever club he ends up at in January. All so sad... but good riddance.

Trevor Lynes
12 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:10:07
If he is to wait until his contract runs down, then he should give his future salary to a charity. He has been very well taken care of and paid whilst playing for us and, to be honest, he has never really reached his supposed potential.

Lukaku has been lambasted for being open and honest and the lad has given us far better service during his few years with us than many of the 'legends'.

Why on earth fans go into raptures over the likes of Barkley and Rooney completely passes me by. Just look at the truth.

Rooney gave us very little service before he headed out for pastures new. I for one have never blamed him for leaving as the lad was ambitious beyond what we could provide.

But I baulked at him coming back in his twilight time when Man Utd had gleaned all the talent he ever had and wanted him off the wage bill. Stupidly IMO our club took him back and he was welcomed like the prodigal son and drafted straight into the starting eleven,

Now yet another local lad is holding us to ransom and getting paid handsomely for doing nowt!

If he waits until January he will be leaving us for nothing and the club that made him whatever he is, will get little to no compensation. I suppose the blind fans of local boys will be pleased if he heads back to EFC when he is finished elsewhere and wants a job!

Give me Lukaku over those two any time. This lad played almost every game for us and scored lots of goals. When he was injured, he did not go on a pre-season jaunt but stayed home and ensured he was fit for the first match.

Lukaku has never stayed silent about his ambitions so he is neither a liar nor a taker of salary for doing nothing. I hope big Rom has a fantastic career and that in future Everton fans will realize the value he was to our club.

We took £90 million for him and that has paid for Pickford, Keane and Klaassen. What will we get for Barkley?

Just think about the facts and don't blindly stick up for the local boys. I have more time for Baines, Davies, Hibbert and others. Players like Jags and Osman who are not local but always gave of their best for the club.

Ian Burns
13 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:10:33
I am in the minority I know but Koeman, should persuade him to accept the contract on the table because, quite frankly, Mr Koeman, you have not bought anybody better than Ross other than Pickford and Keane – two rare players not fighting over midfield.
Paul Tran
14 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:14:50
They already have on Twitter, Darren.
Mark Wynne
15 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:15:01
I get that the club will lose money, but this is a defining moment for Ross's career. He wants to go to Spurs, the charade at Chelsea was just to give Daniel Levy a prod and he took it as far as he could without signing for them. He will no doubt go there in January, probably for a token fee.

At that point, Ross won't have played a competitive game of football in over half a year (with the players that have come in, I don't see Koeman playing him), five months from a World Cup. He then has to get fit and force his way past Dele Alli and co to get into the Spurs starting eleven.

Come June I don't see him in the 23 travelling to Russia. He'll be almost 29 by Qatar and if he hasn't had some kind of huge turn around, he'll be overlooked in favour of the next wave of talent coming through.

After three years of having smoke blown up his arse, Ross hasn't responded well to a manager asking him to work harder and for more end-product and probably blames him for his being overlooked during last year's Euros.

Yes, the club lose out, but I honestly believe that the player will lose out more. Sure, he'll make a packet of money, but I wonder how he'll look back on this episode at the end of his career.

Ian Horan
16 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:16:09
So Ross, if you're a proper Blue, like us all, how about suggesting to our lovable Chairman,

"I realise I have cost the club I love £35 mill, so to help you, how about I sign a contract extension of say 18 months so you get a better fee?" And say EFC could give him a couple of mill as a gesture of good will.

Oh, finally looking at his earlier twatters this latest one is written by someone else as the grammar is so much better

John Wilson
17 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:18:18
For fuck sake, using the word 'contrary' in the right context does not mean that Barkley did not tweet that. The IQ level or confidence in this place must really be taking a knock today.
Brian Williams
18 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:33:01
Glad he's come out and cleared that up to be honest, not that it changes the fact that we still don't have a clue as to what might happen or what has happened so far.
Peter Anthony
19 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:39:51
Barkley's behaviour shows he is not an Everton supporter playing for Everton. He is the opposite of a supporter – he is milking Everton for millions. He is acting like a Kopite wishing to do us footballing and financial harm. Good riddance to him if this is his attitude.
Malcolm Dixon
20 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:46:58
He'll be a Spurs player in the New Year. That's the only move he wants. Sad.
Malcolm Dixon
21 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:47:40
Diamonds are not forever.
Steve Foster
22 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:52:31
Don't let the door hit you on the way out lad.

He is happy to pick his wages up till he is fit enough to pass a medical for another club.

Disgrace.

Ross who?

Ajay Gopal
23 Posted 02/09/2017 at 17:59:18
On the way to the medical, Ross got a call from Bill Kenwright, "Koeman will sacked by December". That's when he told the cabbie to turn around.

Conspiracy theory #132.

Nicholas Ryan
24 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:02:52
"... assess all my options in January, when fully fit".

Naturally, the next sentence will be: 'In the circumstances, I will of course, not be expecting Everton to pay me...' No. really!

Mike Gaynes
25 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:12:39
John (#17), not attacking his intelligence or articulation at all, but there's no doubt in my mind that he didn't write these tweets. People tweet the way they talk, but these three are worded exactly like a pre-written press statement. I'm a PR consultant myself for 20 years, and believe me, this is PR-speak 101.

I'd also point out that Barkley has made absolutely no public comment in a long time... not about his Everton situation, not about transfers, not about the bar fight, and not about his being left on the bench for England. And he almost never tweets. His agency clearly felt something had to be said here or it would endanger his business prospects.

Colin Glassar
26 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:12:58
For all those outraged by the loss of millions, all I can say is, where's the Arteta money Bill?

We've lost countless millions over the years on players like Krøldrup, Van der Meyde, Niasse, Bilyaletdinov, Gibson etc so what's a few more million to such a well run club?

Ross goes where Ross wants to go (like any other player) – not where the club wants him to go. Hope he stays like.

Martin Mason
29 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:23:24
The club hasn't lost a cent on Ross as he cost nothing and, even if he did, then he has no value on the club books.

Ross can do what he likes within the terms of the contract; he owes the clubs and fans nothing. Whatever happened between EFC and Ross, he sees it very seriously, we don't have a clue what it was.

Phil Walling
30 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:24:33
You can't believe a word Moshiri says!
Barry Thompson
31 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:25:28
Seems to me that it isn't Barkley who has cost the club millions, it is the board (for leaving the contract negotiations too late) and then rent-a-gob Koeman giving it large with his public ultimatum 'sign or be sold'.

The decision to go or not was always a ball in Barkley's court as he has the final say on whether to move or run his contract down. Barkley was the one with all of the options available to him, and he's just taken the option he felt was right for him at this time.

£35 mill was a decent fee for him given the length remaining on his current contract but, if he didn't fancy playing for Chavski why should he sign for them just so that Mosh can trouser the Wonga. Lukaku, Oxlade and Lorente obviously didn't fancy the Chavs either.

Kevin Tully
32 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:25:33
I believe he doesn't like Koeman, first and foremost. It happens; players fall out with managers.

I also think the fall out was due to Ross being told he had to put more of a shift in on the pitch. If that was the case, I think the manager had a point. Ross did tend to switch off during games.

How it was all handled seems a bit of a shit-show, but I'm not surprised after what seemed like a new Everton, just turned out to be old Everton with a few more quid.

Laurie Hartley
33 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:30:17
"All my options in January". Ross – a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.
Ian Bennett
34 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:39:22
Sad that Ross will be the new hate figure. He could have been a key part to our revival; now he's going to be a figure of bile.
Barry Thompson
35 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:39:22
Laurie – 'a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush'. Bet that's what pisshead was thinking driving her home the other night.
Tony Abrahams
36 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:40:23
Thanks for that, Mike; just put this on, and it's not a bad game mate. McGeady great run, silly shot, typical!

Kev, I honestly think that Moshiri, might now be looking at the money his manager has spent, maybe thinking he's overloaded, in one position, and wants to see what he can get out of the players that he's bought, before he gives him anymore?

Who knows, but I've just watched the documentary "I Believe in Miracles" and it wasn't exactly rocket science, that helped achieve greatness for both Brian Clough, and Nottingham Forest, just plain simplicity and a group of players, who all knew each other's job.

Let the manager earn his Money now, and hope for his team to gel.

Phil Walling
37 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:46:25
Depends on the deal he has struck with Spurs, Laurie. That Levy is a smooth talker!
George Cumiskey
38 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:51:57
Tony@36,

Absolutely right by what he said to his mate Jim White, because we actually never made a bid for anyone on deadline day.

As our esteemed manager was playing golf in Portugal he knew as well.

As for the Barkley issue, I would tell him to don't bother to come back to the club; we will carry on paying your wages – just stay at home.

Gerard McKean
39 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:52:45
Sorry, but I can't be doing with all this "Barkley has cost us zillions" nonsense.

What costs EFC is the incompetence of some of the people trusted to act in the club's best business interests, and I would include in that a duty of care to a young player being chastised publicly by his manager and thereby alerting other clubs that a) Ross will be sold at a knock down price and b) that Everton will pay whatever it takes to bring in the manager's publicly preferred replacement.

Ross is not leaving Everton; Everton is leaving Ross. We have a diamond on our hands, one that with a bit more polishing will shine very brightly. It would not take a lot to persuade the lad to stay; showing him he's wanted would be a start. Putting him on financial parity with Gylfi would be another signal of his importance to the club.

On Lukaku, I notice that he's close to being canonised for his "honesty." Shrewder business people than Everton would not have sold him so early in the transfer window. With two years on his contract, Everton had all the aces. His value would not have dropped if we'd kept hold for another month or so.

In the event, when everything went mad after PSG started splashing the cash, Everton would have probably got a lot more for him. Why the hurry? We are told there was new money to buy players and even if the strategy failed then Honest Rom would have given his all for the Royal Blue Jersey.

Phil Bellis
40 Posted 02/09/2017 at 18:55:45
Huh! You wait all this time for Harpo to speak...
Phil Walling
41 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:00:13
Is there a space in the squad whilst Barkley waits for his move? I can't see him sitting on his arse until January!
Martin Mason
42 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:03:35
Good post, Gerrard @39.
George Cumiskey
43 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:03:52
Why not, Phil – he's injured, isn't he?
Stan Schofield
44 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:09:10
So, there was no 'U-turn'. So all the posts generated on the basis of Barkley's 'U-turn' have been a complete waste of time.
Frank Wade
45 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:09:20
Gerard (#39), good post but "Honest Rom would have given his all for the Royal Blue Jersey." Hilarious, great punch line.
David Barks
46 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:12:45
I don't see why both can not be true. By Barkley refusing the transfer he has cost Everton £35 million. But he also had every right to do so. He's currently injured, out for up to three months apparently, so he won't be playing any time soon.

There is a January window which could see offers made for him again. He could choose to accept or reject them still, knowing he is free to choose his next club in the Summer.

I'm actually thrilled to have an example where a player refused a transfer. It does my head in seeing all the posts in recent times saying "Sell him off to (insert shite club or league)". The club can accept a transfer fee from anyone. But if the player refuses, end of story.

Barkley may or may not want to go to Chelsea in the end. But it looks more likely that he wants to go to Spurs, his team will know if Spurs are interested, so he can wait and then sign for them for free.

What is clear is that Koeman's public proclamation that he will be sold if no contract is signed was a massive mistake. The strategy to sell if he doesn't sign is fine. But it should have all been done behind closed doors. Seems to be a trend with players not being too happy with Koeman.

James Macdonald
47 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:18:41
This looks like the classic mountain out of a mole hill situation as Moshiri clearly got cross wires re the phantom medical. It is not unreasonable for Ross to clarify this given the ridicule aimed his way on social media etc.

The position of Barkley to assess his options in January makes perfect sense as he won't be playing again until November. Moshiri has suggested the Number 10 area is congested but Barkley has qualities the others lack (for example, decent pace) and I can see him doing a job on the right like he did successfully last season.

I am not actually sure how Sigurdsson and Rooney fit in together as I think Sigurdsson lacks the pace to be effective on the left. If anything, Ross has the best qualities to dovetail with Rooney.

Tony Abrahams
48 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:18:45
Chastised by the manager? How times change, and no wonder footballers can do so very little wrong now.

Paul Tran has called it right with regards to Koeman and his productivity. Move the ball, move the ball, its only my opinion, but I think it's why Tom Davies (amongst others) is struggling to adapt at the minute, because it's not something that kids learn from an early age in England.

If not wanting more out of your more talented footballers is a crime though, then how the hell are kids supposed to improve? (He had Roberto's arm around his shoulder for long enough, did Ross.)

Give Davies time and I'm sure he will adapt but again that's only my opinion based on watching a kid who doesn't put his hands on his head and stop running the minute things don't go right for him on a football pitch.

Brent Stephens
49 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:21:03
He might not have composed the words in the tweet but, until somebody has evidence he's lying, then I think we have to go with what it says.

"So, after months of saying nowt thanks for the clarification". Can't say I blame him if a pack of lies (if that's what they are) are being posted on social and other media.

Will Mabon
50 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:21:32
Throwing any amount of money at big signings = "What does it matter, it's not our money".

Barkley not dutifully leaving to suit the club = "He's cost the club money".

Brent Stephens
51 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:22:31
Gerard (#39) – a cool post.
George Cumiskey
52 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:23:07
David Barks, I always agree with a lot of what you say but on the Barkley issue he has every right to go when his contract is up.

The thing that irks me is why should we help to get him up and running for another club?

Gerard McKean
53 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:26:05
Tony (#48) – you are right, there's nothing wrong with a manager taking a player to task. It is the doing it so publicly and humiliatingly that's wrong.
David Cornmell
54 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:26:46
I blame the club and manager for what seems the inevitable loss of an asset for far less than the market value. Koeman's "honesty" comes at a price, one part of which is reduced market value for players he castigates publicly.
Stan Schofield
55 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:27:54
There's repeated speculation on TW that Barkley will go to Spurs. This is like the repeated speculation that Lukaku was destined for Chelsea. The fact is, none of us has any idea where Barkley will end up, be it Everton or elsewhere.

Gerard @39: I'd been saying for a while that we didn't need to sell Lukaku, and that it was even possible that his value to Everton by keeping him until July 2019 could be greater than the fee from selling him now (in this case, £75M from Man Utd).

If we'd kept him, that plus the new signings would have been exciting, a real statement of a 'new era'. But of course, we did sell him, so the new signings are merely encouraging rather than exciting, and we might simply be seeing the old Everton that we've got used to over the last two decades, selling players in their prime, as usual.

Having said that, there may be a silver lining in failing to replace him, in that it could be the making of Calvert-Lewin, who is significantly improved on last season, and no doubt continuing to improve fast.

Brent Stephens
56 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:33:10
Everton made a promise to pay him his salary till contract end. Then they fuck him about and diss him in public. And people are surprised he continues to draw his salary (while injured, by the way – and that's hardly "doing a Gibson").
Phil Walling
57 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:34:18
Tony @48, I agree with your comments on Davies although I do fear he will be the next to get frozen out because of a failure to adapt to Koeman's style. Whatever that turns out to be.

A promising start to the season has been ruined for me by a negative close to the window, the Barkley mess, and now Rooney reverting to the childish Wassa!

Brent Stephens
58 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:36:42
Phil "A promising start to the season has been ruined for me by a negative close to the window, the Barkley mess, and now Rooney reverting to the childish Wassa!"

Struth, Phil, and here's me thinking you don't have a positive streak in you – "a promising start to the season"! Keep it up. Oh no, you just didn't.

George Cumiskey
59 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:39:47
A promising start to the season! I've watched every match and we have been rubbish.


Martin Mason
60 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:46:29
I think we didn't have the option to keep Rom. I believe he gave us a year to see if Champions League football materialised and we agreed to sell if it didn't.

I also believe that we gave him away at £75M.

John Audsley
61 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:52:01
Barkley and Koeman do not get on.

Ross will wait to the end of the season and hope Koeman gets sacked.

I don't think Ross wants to leave but Ron is going nowhere unless his anger over the striker debacle gets the better of him.

Finishing on that point, Ross should be playing as a striker if he is fit.

Colin Glassar
62 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:52:54
Barry, Gerald et al, great posts. The guilty party in this entire fiasco is the board and Koeman.

As Stan once said to Ollie, this is another fine mess you've got me into.

Lev Vellene
63 Posted 02/09/2017 at 19:55:30
A good one, Ross!

You'll now fleece EFC and, more importantly, the fans who adored and cheered you on! It must feel very good to be a 'professional', so that you don't have to worry who actually finances your paycheck each month as you sit twiddling your increasingly fat 'cheeks'...!

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
64 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:01:04
The problem in this is that Barclay holds a significant number of cards in this negotiation.

He has a contract which has less than a year to run. He can sign for a club and earn a huge signing-on fee by just waiting around for another few months.

Everton, on the other hand, have put a new contract on the table which he has refused to sign and in the meantime will have to pay his wages.

So where is the strength in our position? We have three cards we can play and I think we have to play those cards.

The conversation goes like this:–

"If you do not sign the new contract, and we are prepared to reduce it to one of 3 years to allow you leave in the next 12-18 months, then we will not treat your injury and you can find and pay for your own physio and treatment.

"Furthermore you will not be allowed to train at the club and you will not play any matches for the club. You realise it will mean that you have no chance of playing at the 2018 World Cup because unless we receive a fee in excess of £20m, we will not sell you in January.

"Maybe at the age of 25 you will be back in the England team for the next European Championships and the only World Cup you will play in will be the 2022 in Qatar when you are 27. Can you please let us know within 48 hours your decision."

What are Everton going to lose in that, in addition to our current situation? We will save some costs in terms of performance bonuses we could be paying to Ross if he played. We may have to pay medical and training expenses, although these are probably already spent for other players and will not increase because of Ross. And maybe we lose his fee. But maybe we will lose the latter anyway.

And our alternative negotiation strategy?

George Cumiskey
65 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:07:08
I think a lot of teams reflect the manager.

Southgate: boring, naive, not very good.
Koeman: dour, defensive, not really interested in the club.
Klopp: vibrant, passionate, forward-thinking, loves the club.

Says it all me thinks.

Lewis Barclay
66 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:14:18
I wonder if Ross thinks there's a chance Koeman won't be around in January!

What a load of old shite this all is anyway. After a good start to the transfer window, we quickly reverted to type and then actually bettered some of the more ridiculous Everton behaviour.

I'm going to throw my support behind players like Calvert-Lewin, Davies, Jagielka, Coleman Gueye, Baines who leave nothing on the pitch and hope that some of the new signings offer much of the same.

Barkley has unfortunately shown that he's too big for his boots, and those boots are controlled by his agent and some PR manager now. They'll not be Everton boots again, I expect, and that's probably a good thing.

Denver Daniels
67 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:15:10
So we are basically paying him to get fit for his new club. Nice one, Ross. Maybe we should have tried to sell him sooner and not wait till the last day.
Tony Hill
68 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:15:32
Agreed, George (65). Though Klopp is also a gobshite.
Tony Abrahams
69 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:16:22
Gerard @53, what has Koeman said that has really publicly humiliated Ross Barkley?
Jay Tee
70 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:16:26
I don't want Barkley to stay if he can't make it work at Everton. He probably won't work anywhere else. His football brain is too slow particularly when he has to think about what he is doing. If he does it naturally, he can be brilliant but we've not seen much of that these last two seasons. Shame he didn't just do one.

I didn't want Rooney back at all. He's lost his stamina now; admittedly has a good footballing brain still but not for a club supposedly moving forward.

John G Davies
71 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:20:53
Tony, 69

Fuck all. Nada.

Tony, 36

Dead right mate. From the Moshiri interview on Sky, you can see he thinks we have too many who can play the Number 10 role.

Rob Dolby
72 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:24:11
The season is only going to get tougher over the next month. Koeman should get his arse off the sun beds in Portugal and try to generate some team spirit instead of telling all and sundry that we need a striker etc etc.

Ross can go back to Lego, painting by numbers and cbeebees until January comes and it's time to go to big school and leave for the smoke.

Alan Bodell
73 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:26:59
Just fuck off you greedy twat, "I simply decided... blah blah." Just fucking do one.

I'm just bursting to see what team you will improve and that wonder goal at the Barcodes was not a wonder goal, they all backed off and let you through to score; if any of them had tackled you, you'd have bottled it, just fuck off.

Hope you are pleased to have fucked the club out of £20m and most of that back into your already loaded bank account, greedy twat just fuck off.

Chris Williams
74 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:28:07
And on and on and on ....

"Ross blah ......thick twat ....

"Blah .......potential..... Blah blah...... Evertonian .......traitor...

.....

And on and on ? .....

Stan Schofield
75 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:28:51
Rob @72: Yes, most footballers' brains no doubt reside in their feet. Not quite sure where Koeman's brains reside though. A search party is looking.
Brian Wilkinson
76 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:36:18
Mark @6, he has cost us more than that, we still have to pay his wages until January.
Brian Williams
77 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:38:41
Club offers player, in the last year of his contract, a new contract. Player chooses to turn down offer of new contract. Player doesn't get acceptable (to him) offer from any other club during the whole of the transfer window so stays with present club. Present club continues to look after contracted employee for duration of contract.

When you remove the names, of the player and the club, seems so straightforward. It just seems like business.

No traitors, dickheads, shambles etc... just a club trying to do what's best for them and a player trying to do what's best for him. That doesn't always add up to the same thing.


George Cumiskey
78 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:40:46
What does it matter if he decided to turn round before or after his medical?

Anyone with half a brain will realize he got the nod from his agent to hang the latch, because there's more money for both of them in January.

Fair enough but what galls me is we will get him uninjured and fit for his new club.


Brian Wilkinson
79 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:45:06
Alan @73, I hope your cat is well away from striking distance, say it as it is, good post, think you have spoken for the many how we feel.

Personally speaking, I feel like I've been bent over and shafted by Shergar.

Darren Hind
80 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:45:56
Will Mahon,

Cutting through the hypocrisy and the rage of the people who were so certain about the outcome. Like a knife through butter.

Barry Lambert
81 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:46:39
He may come back as a guest player at Niasse's testimonial.
Paul Wyndham
82 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:48:15
We allow Lukaku to leave for £50m less than we could've demanded and don't have a replacement lined up,while Barkley is hounded out of the Club by an incompetent arrogant manager who has less charisma and certainly less passion than dour Dave.

Our midfield is now littered with one-dimensional crab-like plodders and no-one can move forward with the ball at their feet. We're as far behind the top teams as ever and the failure to bring in a striker during the last window has us reverting to the usual amateurish Kenwright-type production.

Barkley is a much better player than anyone Koeman has brought in and his departure will be more about the managers ego than anything to do with football. I'd rather see Koeman leave before Barkley. This whole transfer fiasco has got me doubting Moshiri too: one step forward, two steps back!

Andy Crooks
83 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:50:26
Ross will be a great signing for someone. He seems to be an arm-round-the-shoulder sort of guy. Koeman seems to me to be NOT an arm-round-the-shoulder sort of guy.

Someone at our club has handled this badly.

Darren Hind
85 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:54:58
I wonder what odds you'd get for Koeman being gone before Barkley?

You`d have probably got about 100/1 a couple of months ago; what d`you reckon now... even money?

Phil Walling
86 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:56:51
Brent @58 – well, I think we've said farewell to 'Sacred Seventh' ... more like 'Mouldy Midtable'!
Andy Crooks
87 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:58:57
Darren, why not give it to Christmas? I have supported Koeman and still do. I have already posted that I see little signs of expansive football, but, I will wait. Why don't you?
Jim Wilson
88 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:59:04
I think Barkley has been tapped up by another club. I hope it's not Liverpool because, sure as eggs are eggs, they will play him in his best position, will get the best out of him and he will haunt us for years.

Barkley obviously has the talent and a good manager should want the challenge of improving him and not alienating him. He is a local lad and I want him to stay.

Koeman should leave not Barkley. What abilities has Koeman shown. The only one I have seen is negativity – difficult game play an extra central defender. Big fucking wow.

John G Davies
89 Posted 02/09/2017 at 20:59:26
Don't know about his view... but the Will Mabon post will get the tongues wagging.
Mark Riding
90 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:03:12
Snake.
Stan Schofield
91 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:05:51
I'm happy to give Koeman until Christmas to show us he knows what he's doing. If there's no significant improvement in both results and style of play (and suitably amending his public utterances would also be welcome) by then, I'd hope Moshiri shows him the door.
Brent Stephens
92 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:13:54
Phil (#86) – ah, that's more like the Phil we've come to know and love!
Tony Abrahams
93 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:14:39
Jim (#88), what makes you think it might be Liverpool, when the obvious answer is Spurs? Imagine if he went to Liverpool though, it would be fuckin' Koeman's fault!

Paul Tran
94 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:20:28
Darren (#85), ask them. Bet 365 gave me 11/4 that Ross would be with us at the start of the season. Wouldn't let me have more than £25 on it though!

I think you'd get a lot more than evens!

Lev Vellene
95 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:28:04
Stan (#91) & all: Koeman supposedly signed on for a 3-year project. Unless we are seriously in danger of going down, I can see no way that he'll get sacked!
Jim Wilson
96 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:29:26
Tony, I said I hope it isn't Liverpool. I remember Steve McMahon to Villa and then very quickly to Liverpool.

We have been mugs for years and we need a clever progressive manager – not a pig headed negative one who thinks he is clever when he clearly is not. He should have encouraged Barkley at every turn.

He turned a great prospect into a hesitant clearly nervous player totally lacking any confidence.

Chris Leyland
97 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:36:33
I can see Mane, Firminho and Coutinho, oh and Salah too shitting themselves at the prospect of Ross Barkley signing for the Red Shite as he is clearly better than all of them.

Meanwhile, in the real world...

Chris Leyland
98 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:38:21
Jim, the last fella 'encouraged Barkley at every turn' and he wasn't exactly pulling up trees for vast parts of the Martinez reign, was he?
Denver Daniels
99 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:44:23
No way Koeman will be sacked. By the same token, I don't see him staying on after his 3 years are done. He doesn't seem like a long-term kind of manager.

If the wheels do come off to such an extent that we need a new manager, Thomas Tuchel or Luis Enrique would be two available candidates. Certainly either of these two would raise our profile immensely.

Tony Abrahams
100 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:44:59
Jim, he turned the most inconsistent Everton player,(who I've ever seen play regularly) into someone who actually started gaining a bit of consistency into his game during 2017.

I think McMahon, only went to Villa because Everton wouldn't sell him to Liverpool but, if Barkley did sign for our loveable neighbours, it really wouldn't bother me that much.

Paul Mackie
101 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:47:27
Hope he enjoys warming the bench at a 'top' club as that's what he seems destined for.
Soren Moyer
102 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:48:17
Poor baby!!!
Raymond Fox
103 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:51:12
Nobody on TW has any idea what Ross was offered in his contract. Koeman says he signs it or he's on the transfer list. Great man management or what?

It's been said already that Koeman is the reason Niasse, Mirallas and now Barkley (if sold) will fetch less money. His utterances are naive in the extreme – in fact, bad enough to be sacked in many other types of business.

Tony Abrahams
104 Posted 02/09/2017 at 21:57:21
Ross Barkley has been picked in Everton's 25-man squad, which has now been submitted to the league anyway.

Darren Hind
105 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:03:30
Andy,

It doesn't matter if I give him till Christmas or not. Question is: will Moshiri?

We play the worst football in the league and, after blowing a massive war chest, we don't even know where our goals are going to come from.

I think Barkley will be here when Honest Ron gets his marching orders... little grin on his face as he drives out.

Tony Hill
106 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:03:53
Does anyone think it was wise for Moshiri to go on Sky and ramble away about this, among other things? Why on earth does he do it and what does it say about his judgment and credibility? He made an ass of himself this time last year, of course.

To focus on Barkley as the main story of this transfer window for Everton is ridiculous. Perhaps Mr Moshiri knew his audience.

Mark Riding
107 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:05:11
From GOT:

"We've got a rodent called Ross Barkley
A shithouse that comes from Wavertree
He's off to play for Daniel Levy
The rodent is leaving on a free
And when he played in blue, he didn't have a clue
Ross Barkley is a rodent through and through

What have we got?"

Colin Glassar
108 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:06:54
Charming ditty, Mark.
Mike Oates
109 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:09:32
We've actually screwed up big time in this summer's window. We sold Lukaku far too early in the window, the market has and is going mad: Neymar £190m; M'Bappe £163m; yet Rom a 25-30 goal a season man in the toughest league in the world (no easy games, vs Spain, France) has gone for £75m and maybe add-ons.

I could understand if we used most of that money to get in a proven goalscorer early, but we've sat there for nearly two months and any half-decent striker will now start at £50m.

Barkley will never be a workhorse Koeman wants, his strength is to open teams up, get you 5-10 goals and make 5-10 goals. He's your poor man's Willian, your Coutinho, your Mata, your Silva – can win you games, but equally can just get lost in the difficult games.

Top teams have this type of player in their armoury and Koeman should have utilised him and not pilloried him. A £40m footballer will now go for £15m and we will be hoping the likes of Klaassen can be better, we will see.

Mark Riding
110 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:10:45
As I said, Colin, it's from GOT, I wouldn't be so complimentary.
Peter Murray
111 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:11:43
Ross is just putting the record straight. Shame so many Evertonians cannot handle that.
Dave Lynch
112 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:18:46
I posted on here a while back, when the Ross Barkley saga was in its infancy, that it wouldn't surprise me if he signed for Liverpool.

I stated then and I'll state it again: "He's that thick."

Dave Abrahams
113 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:21:26
Jim (88), you say if Liverpool sign Barkley they will play him in his best position; what do you consider Ross's best position is?
Ernie Baywood
114 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:21:51
So while the club was showing its cards to all and sundry, Ross knew he had a winning hand and kept his close to his chest.

And they say Ross is stupid...

Mark Riding
115 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:21:56
As I'm posting stuff from other sites...

"Had an interesting chat today.

An Everton physio reckons Ross's injury is very bad and long-term damage caused.

Whilst it won't stop him playing, Chelsea pulled out the deal when the injury severity became apparent.

In the words of the physio, the boy is crocked permanently now. Everton & Chelsea agreed a damage limitation exercise in order to protect both interests in the deal.

The hamstring pull is a consequence of the degenerative nature of this injury being referred to."

Paul Tran
116 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:25:51
So Koeman is the reason players fetch less money? Really?

The biggest devaluer of Niasse was the guy who spent £14m on him and wouldn't play him. Do you think that might have given people a clue to his quality? Or maybe the catalogue of people who told us how poor he was? £10m for him felt like good business to me.

Mirallas? Before Koeman arrived, you didn't need to be Poirot to notice that 'Super Kev' had temperament/attitude issues? Or was it only me that noticed his petulance, sulking, stamping and penalty hijacking?

Of course, I forgot, Koeman is the only manager to have dropped a player for attitude. Next time I can't sleep, I'll list all the cases of this I've seen in 40+ years of watching football. That'll send me off.

Barkley? Two days ago we were offered £35m, all agreed. You telling me that's a devaluation?

I criticise Koeman myself. His tactics and team selection need sorting. But some of the stuff on here is embarrassing. Seems like for some, conjecture only works one way.

Brian Williams
117 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:26:52
If the boy is crocked permanently, then surely that would stop him playing!!??
Tony Hill
118 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:31:09
Mark (#115), if that is right, it would make Moshiri's comments a total disgrace. I suspect, however, that it is not right. I certainly hope not.
Stan Schofield
119 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:31:54
Paul @116: Agreed, it's a mere assertion to say that Koeman has devalued players. However, it strikes me that his various pronouncements to the media might not have helped with valuations.

Koeman strikes me as not the sharpest tool in the box. I'm not saying he's stupid, but he comes across that way.

Darren Hind
120 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:36:46
Paul Tran,

You are doing a lot of protesting against criticism of Koeman today.

Get used to it; he's got away with murder so far... Looks to me like his honeymoon period is over.

Denver Daniels
121 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:37:31
Mark, that doesn't even make any sense. If he was so badly injured as to jeopardise his playing future, then surely he would sign a bumper new contract from us as this would guarantee his future beyond football.

If this supposed injury came to light, no-one would touch him with a barge pole.

Si Cooper
122 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:37:58
"Personally speaking, I feel like I've been bent over and shafted by Shergar."

Really? Over this? I just can't fathom some people.

Mark Riding
123 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:38:52
I just copied and pasted it, as it's not mine.
Paul Tran
124 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:42:16
Stan, I've said all along I have doubts about his communication skills and I think that will sink him as a manager. He talks one way, the players play another, and they look confused. I hope it changes with the new additions.

To suggest that he has devalued players is unsubstantiated, one-sided nonsense.

The obvious reasons to criticise him are there; I don't understand why some have to go down the road of peddling rubbish.

Colin Glassar
125 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:44:56
Darren, well and truly over. Moshiri as well as far as I'm concerned.
Raymond Fox
126 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:46:30
Paul (#116), so when you want to sell items, you tell the potential buyers that actually the goods are not very good!

Do you think that's wise and has no effect on the price?

If you do, that's embarrassing,

Terence Tyler
127 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:47:11
As he only has one year left on his contract, he will be able to sign a pre-contract agreement in January and leave for free in the summer. If he is angling to do it that way, then he will of ratted on Everton good style.

I hope I am wrong. But, if Levy is involved, I wouldn't be surprised if that is how it will pan out.

Dave Abrahams
128 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:49:16
Who selects the 25 players who make up the list for the Premier League season?

Niasse is on it; is there a change of heart about this lad? Will he play a game for the first team or is he just there to make the numbers up, along with Sam Byrne?

Si Cooper
129 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:49:30
It would be super daft of Moshiri to make the announcement he did if Barkley has a potentially career-ending injury. It would be far better to get together with the player and let him make an unopposed statement of the sort he now has.

Not sure what Chelsea would gain from collusion?

Daniel Lawrence
130 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:58:39
Fuck him. Cast him adrift, let him pay to get himself fit and never let him set foot back in Goodison wearing the blue of Everton again.
Brent Stephens
131 Posted 02/09/2017 at 22:58:53
Ross "is that thick".

Or as Ernie says above "So while the club was showing it's cards to all and sundry, Ross knew he had a winning hand and kept his close to his chest. And they say Ross is stupid..."

James Marshall
132 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:01:15
So Ross goes against what the man at the top says, in public – I'd call that a goodbye in January, and a good riddance from the man at the top.

I suspect Ross's goose is well and truly cooked at Everton now.

Brent Stephens
133 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:01:49
Daniel "Fuck him. Cast him adrift".

Maybe a justifiable comment – but maybe it's also a comment Ross made about Koeman! So...

Denver Daniels
134 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:03:32
Dave, I don't think there's a change of heart from Koeman as much as he has no alternative. Niasse, along with Jones and Byrne are probably only there to make up the numbers and in the event of a major injury crisis.
Matt Garen
135 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:04:09
His decision making is not good enough and he looks too bulky. Also I suspect he is involved with a few dubious characters in the city. Shame.
Andy Crooks
136 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:06:13
Darren, it looks like you are persuading more Evertonians that your views are sound. I believe you will be proved wrong.

I stated a while ago that I expected, given what we have spent to be challenging for top four by Christmas. I stand by that view.

One of us will eat humble pie and I believe you hope it will be you. Koeman produced some good stuff at Southampton. It will happen here.

Ernie Baywood
137 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:10:05
I'd love to know what was going through Moshiri's head when he called his mate on live TV to say Ross had completed a medical and then bizarrely changed his mind.

We haven't seen that much from either party but from what we have seen, there's a club that thinks it can pressure Ross and cast doubts on his mindset.

Ross, on the other hand, has kept quiet until he finally decided to defend himself against comments on live TV from our majority shareholder. Even then, he has done so respectfully and without targeting individuals.

Something is rotten at this club when very senior people at the club think they can treat people that way – and think they can get away with it.

I find it so disappointing reading posts calling Ross all sorts because he's cost the club a few quid. How out of whack is the moral compass of our supporters?

Dave Abrahams
138 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:11:02
Denver (#134), I think you are right, but it wouldn't do any harm to have him on the bench at least; there are seven subs on it and he could do some damage as a sub.
John G Davies
139 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:11:47
Well said, Andy.

For what it is worth, I wholeheartedly agree with you. My faith in Koeman remains.

Ernie Baywood
140 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:14:14
James Marshall: "So Ross goes against what the man at the top says, in public – I'd call that a goodbye in January, and a good riddance from the man at the top.

I suspect Ross's goose is well and truly cooked at Everton now."

Ross will go. But he didn't just go against the guy at the top; he exposed an outright lie by the guy at the top.

As an Evertonian, how do you feel about our majority shareholder going on TV and lieing about one of our homegrown players?

Ashley Roberts
141 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:20:24
I cannot believe Moshiri could get his commentary so wrong. It was obviously to deflect the issues from the failures in bringing in a striker to making Ross the scapegoat. This really says a lot about the current hierarchy at Everton where players are continually being criticized in a public arena.

I do not think this sets a good example and I believe this is a significant failure of Koeman. We all know that Ferguson had problems with some of his players over the years but he never washed his dirty laundry in public.

While this is total conjecture on my behalf, I bet the contract that was offered to Ross was no where near that offered to Lukaku which we believe was £140k per week. Ross was also told take it or leave it. No apparent negotiation. So the obvious response is "Okay then, I am off" – in the hope of forcing them back to the negation table, which did not happen.

For all those folks saying Ross wants Spurs over Chelsea, I just don't understand this because the Spurs players have been moaning recently that their wages are lower than other teams which fits with the Levy mentality. So I do not believe for one minute that Ross would be wanting to go to Spurs for money.

My hope now and this is in the clubs court, renegotiate Ross's contract to match that of Sigurdsson and then if he signs and we still want to get rid then at least we will reap the benefit rather than just letting him walk for nothing. Does this not make sense?

I hope Ross stays because I believe he is better than what we have bought in his position.

Tony Hill
142 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:20:31
At least the lines are clear between those who think Koeman is a good thing and those who think he's hopeless for Everton. I declare myself, for what it is worth, in favour of the second camp.

The Chelsea game finally did it for me, though it is very plain in any event that he will never have our team playing attractively.

He has the additional handicap that we have no attacking threat, though whether that is entirely his fault is another matter.

We will find out.

John Pierce
143 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:20:52
Barkley cost us nothing, so he ain't screwing the club out of anything.

The club had failed to identify this particular player had reservations and we didn't protect the asset. Poor, that; no sympathy.

Only one problem, Ross, with your position. What if, come January you are not fully fit? That's why I have no time for his decision/statement.

Staying until January? To what end? He won't get game time, unless it's the U23a. He simply gets to protect his body so his preferred destination becomes available. Rumoured to be Spurs.

Sure you can do so contractually but, in the spirit of things and ethically, dodgy ground lad.

He now knows that if Spurs don't, Chelsea will. Again as dubious moral standing as there can be. Nothing Everton can do, but that's their own failing.

The only way Barkley plays first team football at Everton again is if it's gone tits up by November/December. With Koeman at the helm, that might actually happen.


Dermot Byrne
144 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:21:12
Darren, as long as there is no hint of smugness! Sure there couldn't be.
James Stewart
145 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:21:57
Whichever side your on, I think it's hard to deny that this isn't a major fuck-up by the club. You could write a book on how not to handle a player nearing the end of his contract just using the Barkley case.

First you have Koeman's sign or be sold. Then you have Moshiri live on sky saying he had a medical only for Ross to state otherwise the next day. The whole saga makes us look like a bunch of amateurs.

My personal feeling on it is: I hope he stays. Barkley frustrates the hell out of me but there is a player in there, if there wasn't, Poch and Conte wouldn't be after him. A fit and firing Barkley gets in our best 11 it's as simple as that, maybe not at no.10 but he gets in.

Sigurdsson is an upgrade on Ross, no question, but Klaassen and Rooney aren't. For that simple season, I hope he stays because in 2 years or less Koeman will walk, and we might be facing the prospect of Barkley knocking them in for Chelsea or Spurs. A sickening thought.

Paul Smith
146 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:23:04
More worrying for me than Ross leaving is why Moshiri came out with the medical bollox.

Wtf was he thinking or who was he getting his info from? It all stinks to high heaven and leaves me feeling uncomfortable about the club I love.

Ian Horan
147 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:26:22
Darren, are you related to Ross? Has Koeman shagged your misses or run over your cat??? Koeman has his faults as many have listed; however, Darren, you are yet to give a balanced critique of Ross.

For what it's worth, Ross has lots of talent yet has failed to deliver on that talent. Ross will always divide opinion.

Peter Howard
148 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:31:41
He's not that good – never has been.

Don't know why he generates so much attention. I feel a little guilty even posting but there you go.

Laurie Hartley
149 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:32:42
Phil(s) (#37 & #64) – August to January is a long time for a professional footballer not to be playing.

He has knocked back two contracts – the big question is: Will there be a third on the table in January?

Levy will do what's best for Spurs when the time comes.

John G Davies
150 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:39:10
Ian (#147),

I have not much common ground with Darren but that is a disrespectful post to a 60-plus-year-old man. Do us and yourself a favour and pack that in.

Banter and ripping each other is one thing. What you post is something else. Give it a miss.

John Pierce
151 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:44:48
I've read this thread with interest, best one for some time. Emotive and actually well-reasoned one too.

I don't prescribe that Darren has been some evangelical zealot converting ToffeeWebbers with a turn of phrase and pithy wit. (Not that he can't.)

If you look from day one, despite the fanfare. it was a lukewarm reception. The grand manner of his procurement didn't match his record or stature.

The last 10 games of the season I read plenty that the real dissatisfaction lay in his style & ability to win away from home. The was laid bare when with 7th sewn up, he failed to experiment tactically and served up the most mind numbing crap to date, running Smith (99-00) very close.

Those things were crucially ignored, or put up with as last season as it simply was 'a means to an end'. But the dissent was there. Praise for Koeman was never fulsome, always people mounting a defence for that pragmatism. That to my mind was telling.

Koeman's actions, and lack of tactical balance, not Darren, are the root of any change in opinion. A sentiment I'm sure Darren would echo.

If Koeman cannot progress the team in the coming months, why keep him and why would he?

Trevor Peers
152 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:51:23
Koeman has got to earn his corn now, with the Barkley fiasco and now Rooney's awful antics, we are a club in a deep crisis.

Ron has got to show some leadership and get a result against Spurs. I doubt Rooney will be involved – his head will be wrecked.

A lot of the younger players looked up to Wayne – what an utter shambles!

Don Alexander
153 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:54:54
Does anyone with an ounce of intelligence really believe that all other clubs only realised "our Ross" had a need to improve because Koeman made the comments he did? After all, Koeman picked him to play in 38 games last season! Hello!

If an allegedly fabulously talented footballer can't produce one single fabulously talented display in any one of those 38 games, as was the case as far as I'm concerned, then it seems to me that said player is lacking, err, fabulous talent.

I suspect that Levy is intent on selling Dele Alle off to Real, Barca, PSG or whoever next summer for mega-bucks and then obliging Pochettino to extract the same sort of performance out of "our Ross", the fan who denied us tens of millions of pounds whilst he complacently accrues his next millions.

I was going to call Ross something worse than a shit-house but, seeing as some TW'ers identify me as routinely assuming the moral high ground, I suppose I'd better not!

Tony Twist
154 Posted 02/09/2017 at 23:58:09
Koeman did the club no favours by stating that Barkley would be sold if he didn't sign before a certain deadline. Bet Levy was pissing himself laughing at that.

Koeman attracts players to the club but his handling of certain players has been unwise at times and really weakened the club's position strategically.

Andy Riley
155 Posted 02/09/2017 at 00:03:57
Not really sure anymore. Supporter for 50 years and seen it all probably. In all that time, seeing Martinez winning at Old Trafford with Oviedo scoring was one of the best things ever.

I think Koeman and Moshiri promise something better probably but perhaps it's just the hope that kills you.

Don Alexander
156 Posted 03/09/2017 at 00:16:13
John Pierce (#151) – the difference between you and "our Darren" is that you seem to be at least amenable to seeing how "productively" the squad that's just been put together gels. Any Everton fan would surely hope that it does, but the contract offered by Moshiri and accepted by Koeman was for Champions L qualification by the end of next season.

That's a measure of how shite the club was in terms of squad, finance and prospects until Mr Moshiri stepped in. And, in those circumstances, three years is not a very long time.

Koeman will have to achieve more this season than last, in my estimation – and I will be pleased if he does. If he doesn't, he'll likely get sacked – simples!

Oliver Molloy
158 Posted 02/09/2017 at 00:35:54
Around late March, Barkley had a meeting with the manager. He wanted the captaincy, a commitment from Koeman that he would play in the No 10 position – no matter who Everton bought – and, of course, Koeman gave him no such guarantee nor that he would be even picked for the first team.

Barkley had a bit of a raving session with Koeman when told this. This is where the stand-off and playing hard-ball began.

Barkley and his agent went to Kenwright, complaining also about the new contract offered (he wanted what the club had offered Lukaku).

Apparently Kenwright gave the impression that the club would look at it. On hearing this, Koeman blew a fuse and went to Moshiri complaining he, the manager, was being undermined and told the billionaire in no uncertain terms he was the boss or else. Koeman has not spoken with Kenwright ever since.

Now, the other night, when asked would Barkley play for Everton again, Moshiri said something along the lines "He wants to play the 10 position and this is a very congested position with Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen all able to play here."

So, even though Moshiri didn't do himself any favours on telly, what he said regards Barkley wanting to play the No 10 role tells its own story.

I heard this today from someone I know who would be hearing stuff from good connections at Everton; that's all I can say.

A lot of shite going on behind the scenes, it seems.

I was also told that Everton did make an enquiry about Troy Deeney's availability a couple of weeks back.


Bill Gienapp
159 Posted 03/09/2017 at 00:41:45
I've said it before and I'll say it again – Koeman hasn't been "picking" on Ross. He's been holding him to a higher standard, as he was being billed as the face of the club, the sort of player you build around and Koeman needed to see if he was up to it and if he could elevate his game to a higher level.

Maybe there was a better way to go about it than "tough love," but Martinez blowing smoke up his butt didn't work either, so I'm not really sure what that approach would be.

Unfortunately, the bottom line is that Ross has a psyche as fragile as a Faberge egg. Speculation or not, it's hard to arrive at any conclusion other than Ross wants out because Koeman hurt his feelings and/or refused to guarantee him a starting spot. I suspect he balked at going to Chelsea because he feared more of the same from Conte. What are you honestly supposed to do with a player like that, who completely wilts when challenged?

People often complain that we seem psychologically whipped before we even set foot into Anfield... sad to say, but no current player personifies that shortcoming more than Barkley does.

Andy Walker
160 Posted 03/09/2017 at 00:53:43
That has to be one of the most disingenuous quotes going. Oh yea Ross, of course, you decided 4 weeks after your injury that the best approach is to wait until you've decided that you're fit and then you (not EFC) decide what to do. Yea right. What a tosser.

Does Barkley think we are all as thick as he appears to be, in that and we will accept a quote from his agent that just seems designed to mitigate the damage. Barkley and his agent are total... (you know what).

John Daley
161 Posted 03/09/2017 at 00:56:59
For a lad so often accused of being a twit, it was rather a sensible move to get someone well versed in PR to ghost type a 'get straight to the point' tweet. A much more professional approach than ringing your mate on live TV before mumbling on like Oliver Reed after 18 hours on the razz.

If Moshiri truly believes Barkley is "a world class player" then it begs the question why the club were so woefully tardy in putting fresh terms in front of him in the first place and, furthermore, why the fuck he didn't gently suggest to Ron that it might be a good idea to stop shrugging his shoulders and giving it "whatever" every time the press asked if he hoped Ross would be staying.

Then again, it could have been simple hyperbole on his part and he just had Bill prattling away in his other ear, like last year when he told Sky he looked upon James McCarthy like he was a long lost son.

Stan Schofield
162 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:06:26
Bill @159: Putting all the shite about Martinez' ssupposed 'smoke blown up the arse' and Koeman's supposed 'tough love' to one side (because it's pure conjecture), the real world bottom line is that Koeman has a responsibility to act and look professional, which requires being careful and crafting his words in front of the media instead of wildly opening his gob.

I'm afraid Koeman appears a bit of a dope, an impression only reinforced by his apparent lack of nous when it comes both to tactics on a football field and awareness of how to motivate men. Looks to me that he's the one with too much space between his ears, not Ross Barkley.

John Daley
163 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:23:42
In the space of two posts (Oliver #158 & Bill #159), Barkley transforms from a guy demanding the captaincy, along with a guaranteed starting place, before giving Koeman both barrels when he refuses to buckle, into a fearful boy with "a psyche as fragile as a fFaberge egg".

Cue Isaac Hayes:

"He's a complicated man but no one understands him but his woman (Shat. Ross Shat. On Everton) You're damn right.

You see this cat Ross is just a bad mother.. (Shut your mouth)"

Let's face it, nothing but rumour, guess work, bit of amateur psychology and blindfolded dot-to-dot drawing going on here. None of us know what has really transpired (but the tar and feathers are within easy reach, regardless).

Trevor Peers
164 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:24:45
Just as I have suspected all along, Oliver @158; Barkley's ludicrous demands have been throwing the club into chaos,; he is a very divisive character behind that dumb facade he puts up.

When given exactly what he asked for, a new challenge with a Champions League club, he still refused to leave and pursues this pipe dream that Spurs will give him all the assurances he demands both in wages and a definite start each week no doubt. Demands an average player like him have no right to make.

Ross will end up very rich, but where ever he goes he will be trouble and will of course be found wanting, because he just isn't good enough, a lot of people can't see it though, just yet.

Fair enough, Koeman isn't the genius we wanted him to be, his tactics are baffling at times, but he is being severely hampered by the whole Barkley fiasco that he has inherited. What a shame Ross didn't join Chelsea. The fiasco rolls on, I'm afraid.

Ian Green
165 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:42:39
Ross Judas Barkley, enjoy your upcoming zero game season, it's to make an example of you for biting the hand that feeds you and dishonouring Everton, the fans, the city of Liverpool and most importantly, your teammates.

The crime you are accused of is deceiving the club that made you a professional footballer of £35 million in transfer fees.

Also, we noticed you're not getting international games. So don't waste time getting your Twitter agent to fill in any Russian visa forms.

Anyway, we've replaced you now so... bye.

James Watts
166 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:55:52
Oliver (#158).

If anyone is in any doubt that they smell a rat with I heard this today from someone I know who would be hearing stuff from good connections at Everton is this simple line:

Koeman has not spoken with Kenwright ever since.

How can your "contact" explain the Sigurdsson transfer when Koeman said Kenwright was telling him it would happen, we just need to be patient. Or was that done telepathically?!?

The amount of bull on this thread really is reaching new heights.

Paul Ferry
167 Posted 03/09/2017 at 01:58:54
Unless you can give us something more solid than "Oh, it's someone with real links to the club," Oliver – the source that has given us so much that is mere conjecture often ending up – I would suggest that without a name and firm link that it would be.better if you did not bother.

I don't believe it and I'll tell you why. There is absolutely no way that a story of this magnitude would not have leaked since March. There is no way that a word or whisper of it would not have got out. I might be mistaken, forgive me if I am, but I think that all that say is news to me. Not one element of it has surfaced so far.

So, give us your source – a name – that we can take seriously. Because what you have to say here is very important and – surprise on this thread – it puts Ross in a worse light. The saints on this thread will be all over your words, Oliver.

Do you have an idea of why this story – sorry, these stories – have miraculously remained unknown? Could you ask your source someone 'who would be hearing stuff from good connections at Everton' to tell us why this might be?

I'm, genuinely asking because this is a radical new account and, if it turns out not to be true, then you will need to be taken into account for posting it.

I will be the first to say sorry for doubting the story to you if it is indeed 100% true.


Mike Green
168 Posted 03/09/2017 at 02:11:08
People are forgetting the fact that Lukaku wanted out of Everton. You can hold a player to contract, sure, and he can equally turn up at 3 o'clock and within half an hour send you a message that you need to let him go.

We did well to keep hold of Lukaku for four years given his attitude towards us / his ambitions – this summer was the end of the line. Anyone that can't see that is kidding themselves on.

Mike Green
169 Posted 03/09/2017 at 02:19:52
There's so much bullshit talked about Everton not being quick enough to offer Ross renewed terms. They did it months ago. He's still got 10 months left to run on his current one to this day. Fuck off. Honestly.

The point is he wants to go, so let him. Talk about a player taking precedence over the team, the manager, the club. There is very little Barkley has done to warrant the sort of weight people give him. It's bollocks. Move on and let him do to.

Dennis Ng
170 Posted 03/09/2017 at 02:25:36
Before I call him Judas, I would like the club to openly offer him another chance to sign the contract. "Sign or Rot".
John Smith
171 Posted 03/09/2017 at 02:28:02
Koeman will still play him when fit at some point. It might be the case that he will wind up staying.
Paul Ferry
173 Posted 03/09/2017 at 02:28:44
Just as I suspected, Oliver, Trevor Peers (#164), who has been slagging Barkley off from one post to another, comes on and uses your words as scripture to sling more mud at Ross.

He doesn't question them. He does not seem to have given any thought to a 'source'. He just pounces on them to add 'steam' to his anti-Ross rants and raves.

I don't believe your stories, Oliver. But I do believe that they will continue to foment the anti-Ross hysteria on here. I'm assuming that that was not your intention.

Mark Andersson
174 Posted 03/09/2017 at 03:17:22
Well that thread was at least interesting. Some great points made. Trevor Lynes's post I liked.

Bottom line is at the moment Everton are still in the news and that's great for the soap opera fans.

Koeman, as someone pointed out, had Southampton playing well under the same circumstances we are in now. Sell your best players to finance a new team to stay were you are. 7th or 8th – it's Everton in the modern era..

Will Mabon
175 Posted 03/09/2017 at 05:40:18
"There is absolutely no way that a story of this magnitude would not have leaked since March. There is no way that a word or whisper of it would not have got out."


Ah, the "Somebody would've said something" renunciation, used in reply to theories big and small, and beloved of defenders of less savoury governmental actions, among other things.

The Manhattan Project to develop the atomic bombs dropped on Japan – six years long, transatlantic co-operation and communications involving three countries and over 120,000 people. Not so much as a peep got out – at least not into the public realm.

I tend to agree with you, Paul, in doubting that story, but more due to a lifetime of hearing whispers from "Sources"!

Paul Ferry
176 Posted 03/09/2017 at 05:53:28
Someone just compared the Ross Barkley situation to The Manhattan Project...
John Smith
177 Posted 03/09/2017 at 05:58:52
Is it possible that Barkley has some sort of possibly career ending injury that a medical would have uncovered? Might explain our wanting to get rid of him and his uneasiness about taking tests. Food for thought (wet finger in air).
John Smith
178 Posted 03/09/2017 at 06:04:34
Paul (#39), "...one that with a bit more polishing will shine very brightly."

How long have we heard that one? 6-7 years now?

Ernie Baywood
179 Posted 03/09/2017 at 06:29:23
For a website that did a great job of holding the club to account in the past, I find this thread so bizarre.

On one hand, you have Koeman and Moshiri caught making statements that are either incorrect, ill-advised or outright lies. On the other, you have a young Evertonian who has kept quiet until saying one thing – that the majority owner is making things up about him (and he said it more respectfully than that).

How much do you need to hear before you call bullshit on the majority owner and manager?

Think about it for a second. At times, Ross has been one of the hottest properties around. Did you ever hear a whisper from him that he wanted a move? No sly comments in the media... nothing. Keeping Ross Barkley at Everton was one of the easiest jobs going. And now he wants out.

I'd keep Ross over Ron any day of the week. I can't stand him or his tactics. And Moshiri has a lot to learn about being a Chairman before he's ready to fill Kenwright's shoes... and that's saying something!

Will Mabon
180 Posted 03/09/2017 at 06:51:42
Ernie, months ago, the subject of the club's PR came up briefly in a thread, and it was said that things were rather amateur and needed addressing. It seems incredible that people operating at these levels of management and finance can be so lax.

At this level in this age, a smooth operation with tight, professional and relevant communication should be a given. Whatever the eventual outcome of this "New era", the management structure has been shown in a very poor light, and missed an opportunity to promote. Everton has been perceived as a solid club for as long as I've known of it, and it stinks to see it resembling a soap opera.

That said, many seem to thrive on it now – no such thing as bad publicity?

Will Mabon
181 Posted 03/09/2017 at 07:05:52
"Someone just compared the Ross Barkley situation to The Manhattan Project... "

See, Paul, football is that important.

John Smith
182 Posted 03/09/2017 at 07:09:16
Barry Thompson (#31):

"Seems to me that it isn't Barkley who has cost the club millions, it is the board (for leaving the contract negotiations too late)."

Everton had been trying to extend Barkley's contract from before Koeman arrived. You can't blame Everton if Barkley turned down our offer of £100k a week. He and his agent have clearly used delaying tactics that Koeman understandably got tired of. That's why he gave the ultimatum, of extend or be sold before last season ended.

This is perfectly clear and a completely rational position for our coach to take. If he let it lapse so that Barkley leaves on a free, Koeman would be blamed for that too. This situation was caused by Barkley before Koeman arrived, so stop acting like it's our club's fault.

Phil Williams
183 Posted 03/09/2017 at 07:32:30
There have already been thousands of words spoken and written about the deadline day shenanigans concerning Ross Barkley.
  • Badly advised? Maybe.
  • Stitching up his boyhood club and costing them millions? Maybe..
  • Self-reflection on his future? Maybe...
  • Second thoughts about staying? Maybe....
Whatever the reasons were for the change of heart, and whatever the initial fallout has been, they are now irrelevant as far as what is to happen next. After all, none of us can change the past. What we can do, however, is to attempt to influence the future. What do we fans want?

Here is my take. For me, there are only three outcomes that would satisfy me:

1. Ross signs a new contact with no buyout clause or with a minimum of over £50 million buyout clause.

2. We sell him in January for not one single penny less than the reported/agreed fee of £35 million pound that would have been paid to us this week.

3. Play hardball. This is World Cup year, and there is no doubt that Ross has both the desire and the ability to represent England in Russia. He may only get one chance of a World Cup, and to get that he must be playing and playing well. If either of options 1 or 2 don't suit Ross, then our club must play hardball. If there is no sale on our terms or no new contract, then he should not be picked to play for this club after January.

Don't get me wrong, I still would prefer him to sign a new contract and be part of our club for the next 5 years plus. If, however, he does not want to, then to sell him on the cheap or to play him without a new contract would be a slap in the face too far for me.

We hold a strong hand. Play it well.

Trevor Peers
184 Posted 03/09/2017 at 07:56:25
Phil @ 183;

Great post, you've outlined the options Ross could be given constructively. The whole saga has rolled on for far too long.

Let's hope one of them is implemented soon and we can get back to concentrating on what really matters, winning football matches!

Paul Ward
185 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:13:23
A very interesting thread indeed with many well written views. I must admit I would not be surprised by Oliver Malloy's (@158) revelations. The timing of Lukaku's contract the fans backing Barkley's excuses that he was played out of position and his belief he foolishly deserved the same contract as Lukaku.

Paul Ferry (@173) Quoted "There is absolutely no way that a story of this magnitude would not have leaked since March. There is no way that a word or whisper of it would not have got out."

I disagree; at Everton FC there has been many instances were the truth has never seen the light of day. Why Garry Speed and Keith Wyness left are just two that come to mind.

John McGimpsey
186 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:41:00
Just how long will another Billy Bullshitt leak about "Bramley-Moore almost ready" statement come out to deflect this story so we have a new thread.

I'd say the percentage of writers here is drifting towards the "Koeman is a bellend" side. I'm glad Ross has come out and defended him as for months he has been attacked by the school bully and a lot of fans have been like the bullies hangers on.

The tactical 3 at the back Dutch genius will be gone, so come on, Diamond – sign a 5-year deal and piss yourself laughing when he is sacked for spunking a ton of money.

Steve Pugh
187 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:43:41
The bare minimum that should happen before January is that Ross signs a new 3-year contract with a £35m buyout clause.

It will protect the club he (supposedly) loves.

Chelsea and Spurs will pay it if they really want him.

He can still leave in January if that's what he wants.

I would want to see a public announcement of the offer and then we can find out what is really going on in Ross's head. If he signs, then he really does want to think things through; if he refuses, there is money being offered in the background.

Dermot Byrne
188 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:49:35
Perhaps he could pop over and have a prosecco or two and get some advice from Wayne? Great minds collide!
Terry Farrell
189 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:51:20
Sanchez and Can will leave their clubs the same as Ross will leave Everton. The players have the final say.

Ross is amazing on his day but inconsistent and Ron wanted more effort off the ball as any top manager will wherever he ends up.

Does it actually matter if Ross had started the medical or not? If he was at Chelsea to sign up and then changed his mind then he did do a u-turn.

Darren Hind
190 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:51:56
Andy Crooks!!!

WTF are you talking about, mate – "Persuaded Evertonians that my views are sound"?

I would like to think that anyone capable of logging on to a website and posting, is capable of watching football and drawing their own conclusions.

Our football has been dire since the day and hour Koeman entered the fray. I didn't expose this in startling reservations to the TW parish. Those with a brain and an ability to think for themselves already knew this. Half-witted claims that I was in a minority of one were exactly that... fucking half witted.

What you are witnessing is the exhaustion of patience. Mine admittedly ran out before most. Maybe that's because I look for different things like signs of intelligence, little hints of imagination, the occasional surge of passion. I didn't see any of that.

We all have different levels of patience. Many openly said they would give him time to weed out the wicked, to stamp his own brand on our play, to get in his own players.Well, he's done all that and we are still serving up passionless dross.

As far as I'm concerned (and this is just opinion) we are witnessing the first wave of revolt against what is being served up. If Koeman does not change tack and start to give something back to the devoted fans who have backed him to the hilt, the second wave (which includes you) will be significantly greater.

There will of course always be exceptions, recent posts will testify to that. When someone claims they were "entertained" when watching mind numbing dross being served up against second class European opposition. or another describes a performance where the opposition missed chance after chance as a "defensive masterclass", you KNOW these guys are in it to the bitter end. Pathetic posts telling us the recent result and performance against Chelsea was in some way acceptable merely confirm it.

Post like that are (IMO) aren't typed in support of the team. They're delusional nonsense spouted by people who are desperately trying to show the guy they have so vociferously backed in a better light; they're failing. They may need to start considering the fact that happy clapping is not a positive.

So no, Andy, I have not persuaded anybody. Their eyes and brains have done that. I wont be eating humble pie either, because I believe I have been correct in my assessment of Koeman. If, by some miracle, he does have a Damascus moment and we do start to play the game as it should be played, there'll be no bitter recriminations from me. I will be too busy applauding.

Those who don't want much tend to shout loudest when they don't get it.

Tony Abrahams
191 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:52:24
James (#166), after reading Oliver's post, I thought exactly the same as you because of what Koeman said about Kenwright, but I do love a conspiracy theory though!

If I have no time for someone, think they have got involved in something they shouldn't have, then it's possible that I could praise them in public as a way of taking the piss.

Moshiri will be listening to Ronald and he will be listening to Bill. If these two don't like each other, then something is gonna give soon.

Which fucker do you want out of our club first, Darren? And you only have one fucking shot!

Paul Tran
192 Posted 03/09/2017 at 08:59:34
Darren (#190). Can't argue with that.

With regard to your earlier post, if a million came on here saying Koeman has devalued the three mentioned players, I'd still be arguing with them.

I'll keep criticising him for what he is actually getting wrong.

Darren Hind
193 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:02:34
Ha Ha, Tony

That's a tough question. Can I get back to you on that one?

John Roberts
194 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:03:19
It should have been sorted ages ago. If he doesn't sign in January, let him rot in the reserves and let him go in the summer. A year without competitive football, you lose it; it will see his ambitions crumble. Both in a top team in the Premier League and certainly the World Cup!!

He could have done what Mirallas has done, signed to be sold!!

Paul Tran
195 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:08:38
Tony, is it possible to stand one of them behind the other? Or borrow the missile Kim Jong Un used to do his uncle?
Tony Abrahams
196 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:17:36
It actually makes more sense this now. Koeman, praised Bill, but he really can't stand him, but he doesn't praise Barkley, because he actually likes the kid, and he thinks he's got a lot more to offer!
Tony Abrahams
197 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:19:40
Only if we can put Ross Barkley in the middle Paul... ONLY KIDDIN!
John G Davies
198 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:21:46
"As far as I'm concerned, and this is just opinion..."

Anybody else's posts don't fall under that criteria though.

A surefire cure for a hangover. No need for a cure today – just read the latest from our resident fire-and-brimstone preacher and it's sorted.

Paul Tran
199 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:30:27
And his agent, Tony?
Chris Barnes
200 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:37:03
In my opinion, our chairman should not be phoning Sky 30 mins before transfer deadline (or at all) regardless of the truth of his statements.

With regards to Barkley, my take is that he is simply a weak character. It is quite clear he was more suited to the previous managers style rather than Koeman's. Interestingly neither Warnock nor Moyes were convinced by him, both similar in work ethic to Koeman.

I see this as Ross doesn't have the heart for the battle. Instead of taking up the challenge and potential dovetailing with our news signings, he is jumping ship. Can see him working at Chelsea either, or Spurs in fact. He'd be more suited to West Ham and the like – less pressure and easier to please fans.

For the record, I'd still like him to re-sign and play in a forward 3 with Rooney and Sigurdsson. I doubt that will happen, though.

Stan Schofield
201 Posted 03/09/2017 at 09:50:40
When Koeman joined last year, I said to my dad, "Interesting times for us, plenty of money to get the desired manager, plus new players, could be like in 60s."

My dad just said in reply, "Trouble with Everton is, they build you up then let you down, so don't get too excited." Don't they fucking just.

Kevin Tully
202 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:06:50
Latest on Barkley, from Ian McGarry;

“We also know Barkley is suffering from a hamstring injury which in all likelihood will keep him out until November at the earliest.

“If I’m a buying club why am I buying an injured player who cannot play for the next three months of the season, pay £35m for him and put him on a substantial wage of £155,000 a week – only then to find out he may aggravate his hamstring injury at some stage of his rehab and could be out for the season?

“People are saying Barkley changed his mind. But he didn’t because he accepted personal terms and went for his medical.

“What went on there is the medical was failed and Chelsea have pulled out of the deal because the injury was more serious than they had been led to believe. Therefore they decided themselves not to progress.”

James Macdonald
203 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:14:54
Oliver (#158). I note your source is once removed (friend of a friend) which really makes it incredibly unreliable.

I think the bit about the fall out between Koeman and Kenwright is clearly not true (just the other day, Koeman was eulogising Kenwright for getting the Sigurdsson deal over the line) which kind of destroys the credibility of the rest of your information. It is great if people have insights from sources and want to share this, but posts like yours unfortunately have the effect of us doubting anybody that claims to have genuine information.

Barkley has been an overly analysed player on many levels. I suspect there is no great rift between Barkley and Koeman, and that this is simply about Barkley perceiving Potchettino has far more belief in him and that Spurs are a better route to the England team and Champions League football – hard to argue with that really.

I think the need to blame or victimise anyone (whether Koeman or Barkley) is probably off the mark. I am also not sure why, on the one hand, fans are so concerned at losing out on the full fee for Barkley... yet, on the other, tell us we should not worry about spending £45 million on Sigurdsson as it is not our money!

James Watts
204 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:17:50
Kevin #202.

Who's Ian McGarry as he's basically calling Barkley a liar? Wonder if his pants are on fire too?!

Brent Stephens
205 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:22:54
A sad, sad thread. So much nasty, spiteful vitriol aimed at him (Ross or Rom or Mosh, depending on your take on all this; and used to build one's pre-existing prejudices against them). Opinions on rights and wrongs are fine but I find it sad the bile that is spewed out.

And bewilderingly, all based on next to no knowledge about what has actually gone on behind the scenes.

Andy Crooks
206 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:24:24
Darren, is it not the point of debate to convince others that your point is valid? In fact, some of your arguments have made me reconsider some views, as did the Chelsea set-up and performance.

Where we fundamentally differ is in timing. I think it is unreasonable to call for Koeman to go when he has had so little time with his own team. I don't think anyone is blind to his faults. Some of his tactics and utterings annoy the hell out of me... but I believe he will succeed.

Garry Martin
207 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:26:04
Well, it's not "rocket science" is it?

Ross is currently injured and can't obviously play so, why bother paying a transfer fee when you can enhance a player's wage rather than pay a transfer fee?

Win-win situation for player, agent & signing club; however, lose-lose situation for EFC.

Darren Hind
208 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:38:04
Liverpool had a right back named Chris Lawler in the 60s and 70s. He was renowned for being the silent type. No fucker could get a word out of him.

The Red Shite would often finish training with a game. Word had it that these "practice" matches were fiercely competitive. Bill Shankly would play in them and always seemed to be on the winning side.

One day, he was making the rules up as he went along (as per...) when a ball flew past a post. They were not playing with nets so there was a big argument as to whether the ball went inside or outside the posts.

Nobody was backing down so Shankly turned to Lawler and said "You decide, did that ball go inside or outside the post?"

Lawler was on the line and because the shot was from an acute angle, he was one of a few who really knew which side of the post the ball had whistled. To Shankly's outrage, Lawler told him it was outside, thus ending his unbeaten run.

Back in the dressing room, Shankly was still simmering, When Lawler picked up his bag to leave, the Scot shouted to him. "You haven't opened you mouth for years and, when you finally do, it's to tell a fucking lie."

I read that story about 50 years ago, I hadn't given it another thought since... until now.

Ernie Baywood
209 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:42:00
James Watts... Ian McGarry is the worst type of journalist. He passes off random guesses as exclusives. No idea how he's employed.

Does anyone really think Ross had a medical?

Tony Everan
210 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:49:44
Ross should sue the journo for printing lies. Ross should know the truth. Unless they sedated / probed him.
James Marshall
211 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:51:03
Ernie @140

To be honest with you, my mind isn't entirely made up on this – though to answer your question about Moshiri lying on TV about this; did he lie? How do we know who's telling the truth?

Ross Barkley hasn't exactly covered himself in glory over all this, and appears (and I say 'appears' because I don't know the kid) to have a number of issues on and off the field, so why should we believe what he says?

Something has clearly gone on with Ross, and he was surely in London on Thursday night? Why would Sky report all that? Are Sky liars as well as Moshiri? Is Ross telling the truth? Have Sky, Chelsea and Moshiri all conspired against Ross Barkley?

Do you see what I'm getting at here?

Terry Farrell
212 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:51:09
Sanchez and Can will probably do the same as Ross and leave when it suits them. It is the player's decision and not just Everton who will suffer this.

Ross on his day is superb but Ron wants more out of him off the ball and all managers of top teams will expect the same. Does it matter if Ross hadn't started the medical? If he was down there at Cobham then he has done a u-turn.

James Marshall
213 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:55:15
For what it's worth, and I only have my own opinion like everyone else, none of us has any facts to go on – I suspect Ross Barkley will never play for Everton again.

I think he has some unknown issues either with the manager, someone or some people in Liverpool, personal issues of some nature, and a strained relationship with fellow players, and the club in general. He certainly divides opinion with supporters as we all know.

I'm not certain he's being properly advised, or perhaps he simply doesn't take the advice he's given by his family, friends, the club or his agent.

We'll probably never know, but I do find it hard to believe that, in everything that's gone on lately this year with Ross, that none of it is his doing.

Brian Williams
214 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:55:59
Moshiri may well have been under the impression that Ross had had a medical. Either way, he shouldn't have commented and shouldn't be allowing himself to be manipulated by Jim White for Sky's benefit.

For a billionaire, he seems a bit naive to me. Some might say HE was using Jim White but, after the Sissoko - McCarthy incident, that's obviously not the case.

Kim Vivian
215 Posted 03/09/2017 at 10:57:23
This Ian McGarry is sailing close to the wind or has inside dope.

Has anyone from Chelsea FC said what actually did or did not happen? What are they saying on any Chelsea forums about all this malarkey?

For myself, I am just left with a feeling of anticlimax based on the last 2 or 3 months after all the anticipation. All very dour.

Eddie Dunn
216 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:02:15
My good friend is good friends with an ex-Everton player, who is a pundit. You all know his name... my mate tells me Spurs are in for Barkley in January, and down at the 'Lane it is common knowledge.

Therefore it is highly likely that the club were trying to offload him at a higher price to Chelsea, knowing that considerably less will be paid by Spurs in January.

Ross's injury has really put a dent in Everton's shopping, as it seems that we knew Lukaku was definitely a done deal with Man Utd and therefore could do our early shopping, but our subsequent hiatus was down to not offloading Barkley.

We probably still haven't got much spare dosh despite the talk of warchests. t would explain how we failed to bring in a Plan B striker, who could have done a job for the season.

Kim Vivian
217 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:05:05
Makes sense, Eddie.
Ernie Baywood
218 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:09:26
James (#211) – I agree with you; Ross must have done something... it's highly unlikely he's got people at the club prepared to speak so freely about him without any reason. At a minimum he's rubbed someone up the wrong way.

But on this medical... Ross couldn't think he can just deny it if the truth is the opposite? All it would take is one comment from Chelsea to make him look ridiculous.

Mind you, they haven't said anything yet which is a bit odd.

Rob Halligan
219 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:14:36
James (#213). I agree with you mate. My own personal opinion is that the trouble Ross had in Liverpool when he got sparked is still lingering around his neck, and won't go away.

For me, the answer is simple: don't go into the city centre, and move to the leafy suburbs of Wilmslow where all footballers seem to live.

Tony Marsh
220 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:18:34
I blame the manager and the chairman for this farcical situation. Koeman publicly slated Ross and also made ultimatums in public regarding Ross. This shit doesn't work on the modern day football player. Barkley's situation reminds me of Moyes and Rooney.

Kenwright needs shooting for allowing Barkley's contract to run down like it did. Once it was at 12 months remaining and the manager putting the boot in, if it were me I would also consider going on a free next year, just like Ross is doing.

Truth is, the club is still a shambles. The transfer policy and the general way in which we are conducting ourselves as a club has Bill Kenwright all over it. We've all been kidded with Moshiri and nothing has really changed at Everton. The Lukaku and Barkley fiascos just go to prove it.

James Marshall
221 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:19:16
I've just had a read through a thread on one of the Chelsea forums, called the Shed End of something – there's a thread on there about Barkley that started back in July, and was full of posts from Thursday night up till 2 hours ago...

The general consensus among Chelsea fans is that they dodged a bullet in not signing Ross. They all think he's a bit of a joke, has issues, is overrated and basically 'played' them on Thursday night.

Numerous comments about him being equally as bad at decision-making on & off the pitch, and actually pretty well informed, without being full of bias, which surprised me.

They also think he wouldn't get in their first team, especially as they signed Drinkwater on Thursday – they seem to think this also had a big influence on why he changed his mind at the last minute.

Ed Fitzgerald
222 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:27:39
My personal opinion on the Barkley matter is that the club have behaved pretty shabbily.

Since Koeman's arrival he has publicly admonished Barkley for not being 'productive' enough. I don't think it is the right tactic to get the best from Barkley but that's the managers decision.

I actually think Barkley is a really good footballer (not a great one, perhaps) but he is always willing to take possession the ball and, unlike the rest of the midfielders we have have had in recent seasons, he isn't terrified of going forward. He is certainly has been our most (only?) creative player in the past few years.

I think Koeman's very public declarations about his performance and his ultimatum about him leaving have quite rightly pissed Barkley off. Barkley is under contract and, as an employee, he has every right to refuse a transfer to a club he doesn't want to play for. He hasn't uttered a word other than to refute the fact that he had been to London or had a medical. He has not dissed the club in anyway or spoken about his proposed contract, but the club (ie, Koeman) have done fairly regularly and publicly.

The idea that the club don't treat people shabbily need to look at their treatment of the much maligned Niasse for an indication of Koeman's management style. Ron has the season to get it right – otherwise, it's time for a taxi next May.

Brent Stephens
223 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:33:41
Kim (#215),

"For myself I am just left with a feeling of anticlimax based on the last 2/3 months after all the anticipation".

Me too. I wonder if the level of feeling against Ross on here is fuelled by the disappointment over not signing a Number 9 at the death.

Alan J Thompson
224 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:42:29
I believe Mr Moshiri is a resident of Monaco for tax reasons and wonder if there is a limit on the time he can spend in the UK? I ask as in the past some have been allowed a maximum of only 90 days per year or are regarded as UK residents.

If so, would it be the case that he was told Barkley had undergone a medical before his ill-advised phone call and has anyone been seen exiting Goodison or Finch Farm with the contents of his desk or inquired about how much Everton shares are fetching at the moment?

Regardless, it would appear that someone will be terminating his stay at the club before this time next year.

Oliver Molloy
225 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:43:04
Firstly,

To those who want the name of my source.

To ask me to name a person (actually persons) I bump into now and again that do have connections at the club would be unfair (not that I have ever asked them would it be okay).

I have just repeated what we spoke about which, on this occasion, was mainly all about Barkley and a wee bit other stuff, me asking questions.

I have also said on many occasions that there are many with connections at the club. I know at least three or four other people who would have decent connections at Everton (and all say Koeman and Kenwright do not like each other, by the way).

I also asked (because I had heard from another source) was there any truth that the club were trying to get Shane Long in? This person said he had heard this also. As we know, this didn't happen... but it doesn't mean that the people who told me know nothing.

It now seems that some on here suggest I am anti-Barkley – not true; look back at my posts... you will see that, a lot of the time, I have praised him and, like every Evertonian, wanted him to succeed at Everton; I just don't think he's as good as others do.

There is no doubt Ross Barkley has the talent –, to say otherwise is silly, which is why it's so frustrating for us as supporters and worse for the manager. From what I see of Barkley it seems he can not "manage" the game plan. Bags of skill, but going to waste a lot of the time and he has now come up against a manager who has called him on it.

To come out and say lack of movement, nobody as creative as him, playing in the wrong position etc etc is also silly.

James Watts:

Koeman is the main spokesman for the club. Koeman saying Kenwright assured him he would get this over the line actually was said before Sigurdsson signed; Koeman just didn't say 'Kenwright' – he said 'the board', so I will stick with what I was told regards Koeman not speaking directly with Kenwright.

Was anyone on here at the club's awards in May? I'm told that both these two avoided each other, is this true?

Koeman and Kenwright both know how to play the game; it's Moshiri that is still learning with the media, it seems.

Kenwright was and is still desperate for Barkley and Rooney and young Davies to play together; he was the main instigator in getting Rooney back to the club and really cost us £10 million with the Lukaku fee reduced from £100 million, in my opinion.

My thinking is Koeman believes Kenwright is meddling in team matters. Kenwright still believes this is his football club and Koeman was not his first-choice manager, so he's not going to be happy with this fairly straight-talking Dutch guy telling him "he knows fuck all about football and to stop meddling and just get me my fucking players".

Bill Kenwright is a romantic; Koeman is a different animal.

Eventually, of course, if Koeman fails, he will be sacked... but, as long as he finishes top six or seven again this season, he will have done a good job (according to Moshiri).

Darren @ 190.

"Those who don't want much tend to shout the loudest when they don't get it"

Ronald Koeman / Ross Barkley?

James Marshall
226 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:47:07
Ed @222, Martinez tried the opposite with Ross – being massively soft on him – and he was still the same player. It seems managers can't change him either way!
Kim Vivian
227 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:53:56
Brent – the Lukaku replacement is just one thing. Our performances have disappointed, Barkley's situation isn't helping (I like the lad and wish it had all turned out for the good in our favour), Rooney's faux pas and just a general feeling of malaise around the place. And a bloody international break to add to the boredom.

We're all struggling to find something good to say.

As I say – all a bit dour right now.

James Watts
228 Posted 03/09/2017 at 11:57:16
Oliver (#222),

Direct quote from Koeman after Gylfi signed:

“When I heard from the chairman Bill, he was always so calm. He said: ‘I will do the deal but we need to be patient.'"

Yet you state:

Koeman saying Kenwright assured him he would get this over the line actually was said before Sigurdsson signed; Koeman just didn't say 'Kenwright', he said ;'the board', so I will stick with what I was told regards Koeman not speaking directly with Kenwright.

You're implying Koeman's quote must have been said pre-Barkley bust up. Therefore back in March?! And they haven't spoken about it directly since and only through 'the board'?

And as a side note: If Koeman and Kenwright really are at complete loggerheads and not speaking, you really think Koeman would quote 'the chairman Bill"? Seems a pretty friendly reference to me.

So, as you can see, Oliver, it doesn't quite add up. I'll just stick with the facts, I think.

Brent Stephens
229 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:06:24
Kim (#227) – yes, and those other things you mention.
Oliver Molloy
230 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:19:03
Oh James,

I'm just in from mass, and you'll never guess who I bumped into there, oh God better say nothing!

It sort of makes sense to me; facts... yeah, right!

Paul Tran
231 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:20:33
Well, I'm going to Newcastle for a couple of days this week. Now there's a team that had a really dreadful window. Think I'll feel better when I'm back from there!
Barry Thompson
232 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:27:32
John Smith says – This is perfectly clear and a completely rational position for our coach to take. If he let it lapse so that Barkley leaves on a free, Koeman would be blamed for that too. This situation was caused by Barkley before Koeman arrived, so stop acting like it's our club's fault.

Barkley contract talks planned for later this season

Lyndon Lloyd Friday 16 December 2016

Everton will sit down with Ross Barkley next year to discuss extending his current deal with the club, Ronald Koeman says.

The manager faced inevitable questions over the 23-year-old's future at his pre-match press conference today following talk in the media of possible interest in his services from Tottenham Hotspur.

Koeman dismissed the speculation, indicating that the issue of Barkley's contract, which currently has another year and a half to run, would be dealt with in due course.

“We know he has about 18 months left," Koeman said. "That's not the priority now. In the New Year, we will have talks about his situation and his future but the priority now is playing and winning and see what happens in January.

"I'm not interested in what is said about the future of players. There is no one knocking on the door now about players from Everton.”

Yes John, they bust a gut to get it done, didn't they.

Colin Glassar
233 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:28:08
While we are all going mental over Barkley and Rooney, the small issue of us not buying a striker is being ignored to a large degree.

As for the stadium, well that's gone right on to the back burner, hasn't it?

Mark Jensen
234 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:33:21
My humble opinion. He tells EFC and Koeman he wants to leave. Both effectively confirm this.

He heads to London to keep up the charade. Changes his mind last minute.

Now back at EFC when he'll leave in January, coincidentally on a much larger contract at his preferred club Spurs.

EFC seen done up like a kipper by Barkley and his agent. Whole thing stinks.

Oliver Molloy
235 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:35:09
Colin,

No money available for striker (no source – just my opinion!)

I'm sure positive news on our new stadium will be forthcoming, it would be unthinkable if the shit was to hit the fan again!!

James Watts
236 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:36:46
Oliver (#231). Why are they not the facts? The fact Koeman said what he said – which is documented and easily discoverable – over the friend of a friend talking about what he's heard? What you've been told and relayed here simply does not add up in any shape or form.

The facts are there for anyone to see. Unless of course you close your eyes and stick your fingers in your ears and shout 'la la la la la la'. Proven fact vs gossip. Your choice.

Nitesh Kanchan
237 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:41:29
What about the personal agreement? Can he deny that as well? This is just to take the pressure of him from fans' criticism, similar to Lukaku when he posted a picture playing on a Chelsea banners ground before his move to Man Utd via Chelsea.

Nobody is stupid enough to believe that he didn't want to go. Let him sign that contract and prove it which has been lying on the table for more than a year.

I am not a fan of Koeman and want him sacked as well. But Koeman himself has been asking him to sign the contract which he is not doing, then who is to blame? It is not like Koeman wants him to leave, it's his own decision.

I want him to succeed at our club and build a legacy like Gerrard at Liverpool and Totti at Roma. But the bottom line is, he doesn't care about the club.

Peter Anthony
238 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:41:50
The problem is between Barkley's ears. One of his best shifts last season was away at White Hart Lane, wanting to impress his next manager with a snide deal shafting Everton already lined up between his agent and Levy, I suspect.

After all the support and development Everton put into him since a small child, backing him through his double leg break etc, for him to now run down his contract and leave for a fire-sale fee is a disgrace. At least Rooney left for what was big money then, much needed by the Club.

With FFP still relevant, Barkley's shithouse tactics are potentially hindering our quest for a Number 9 while he stays on big money but not contributing on the pitch, then leaving without the approx £40m he would get us if he was contracted to us for a couple of years. Tosser.

Ed Fitzgerald
239 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:46:43
James @226

Thanks for the response just a few questions?

Do you think it is wise for an employer to be publicly critical of their employees or is it perhaps better down in private?

I don't know what you do for a living? but I have managed a staff of over 90 (in a number of different places), at no point did it cross my mind to 'hang people out to dry' at a staff meeting for all and sundry to behold. I did however hand out bollockings in private for not performing.

Do you think Barkley played any better under Koeman than under Martinez? (It's not an easy comparison as Martinez was there for three seasons and Koeman for only one... so far.)

Darren Hind
240 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:47:41
As I said right at the start of this thread, there was always going to be some wild guessing throughout its duration. But this has gone beyond wild guessing. People are insulting the intelligence of other posters by making up utter tripe about the player, simply because he didn't act the way they wanted him or expected him to.

James Marshall.

You sound like Norris Cole. I've never heard so much inaccurate gossip since... well since Oliver Molloy posted.

Why does somebody have to be lying? Barkley knows the truth and Moshiri was asked a question and answered it to the best of his knowledge... and why try to add to the cloak-and-daggerness of it all by asking "Why Sky would lie"? – Who said they were???

The only lies being told in your posts are from you... "They (Chelsea fans) ALL think he's a bit of a joke, has issues and is overated."

You must think everyone was born yesterday. Give your opinion, by all means, but don't try to dress it up as the thoughts of the entire Chelsea fan base.

Oliver Molloy

Everton employ an awful lot of people. Many of us will know some who have connections or work for the club. Let me tell you a secret: they are not invited in by Moshiri and given a daily update on all the goings-on inside the the hallowed walls. The employers (and I'm including the players) generally know about as much as we do.

If you really do know someone who works for the club (and I have no reason to doubt you), you will know that the gossip and conjecture on the inside is every bit as bad as it is on here.

Colin Glassar
241 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:51:21
I hope you're right, Oliver. Right now, I just don't trust anyone at Everton FC.
Oliver Molloy
242 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:53:03
Friend of a friend – did I say that? No don't think so, James, but I see what you and someone else on here are trying.

After Sigurdsson signs.

Your fact: Koeman says of Kenwright at press, "Not to worry, we'll get him."

My fact: Koeman said, a week before, "the board are working very hard to sign this player, we will see."

So you are saying that, because Koeman mentions Kenwright in the signing of Sigurdsson, all is rosy between the two and they sit down for coffee every day? Well, I disagree with that, James, and like you will stick to what I have been told.

Games people play!

Colin Glassar
243 Posted 03/09/2017 at 12:57:17
I love the way some people say Ross is crap and overrated yet two of the brightest managers in the Premier League seem determined to get him on board.

Maybe they see something you don't?

Oliver Molloy
244 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:00:14
Darren,

You are 100% correct and I agree totally with you. All I have done is pass on what I was told.


John G Davies
245 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:01:03
Darren (#241),

Who is Norris Cole?

Raymond Fox
246 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:04:17
I think we all like to put our 'two penneth' in, and have a good discussion, shall we say. The threads about Ross read more like a fiction writers convention; none of us know the truth.

Would I sooner have Ross than £35m? Yes I would.

The best thing the club could do at this stage is for Ross, Koeman and whoever from the club to sit round a table and see if this mess can be cleared up satisfactorily. By that, I mean for Ross to sign a 3- to 5-year contract that is acceptable to both sides of the table.

Brent Stephens
247 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:11:15
Peter (#238) "With FFP still relevant, Barkley's shithouse tactics are potentially hindering our quest for a Number 9 while he stays on big money but not contributing on the pitch, then leaving without the approx £40m he would get us if he was contracted to us for a couple of years. Tosser".

I don't understand the end of your long sentence but anyway I don't see how one window could bollocks us re FFP if we bought a number 9 while not selling Ross. Doesn't FFP work over a longer time frame than that?

And how can he contribute on the pitch while he's injured? It sounds like he could be out for a wee while, and could then be sold in the next window?

And his concern isn't to get Everton FC £40m! His concern is to look after himself.

James Watts
248 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:15:34
Oliver (#242).

So you are saying that, because Koeman mentions Kenwright in the signing of Sigurdsson, all is rosy between the two and they sit down for coffee every day?

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying Koeman and Kenwright clearly do talk. In turn, this shows the information you have been told and passed on is incorrect because you said they don't talk, at all. Over coffee or anything else.

If you prefer gossip over logic, then that's your prerogative. Much more fun believing made-up stuff/over the top exaggerated things, after all.

Peter Anthony
249 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:28:02
Brent, I am not an expert on FFP but I believe that having a highly paid wantaway player on the books, when his wages could go towards funding the wages of a new player, is unhelpful.

I also believe that, in Barkley's case, given the background, he does owe Everton some loyalty, even if that is just signing a contract that will enable us to get decent money for him when he leaves to strengthen one of our rivals.

Brian Williams
250 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:35:39
I'm not going to mention Ross Barkley (ah, shit) despite this being a Ross Barkley thread (ahh, shit again) but mention Bramley-Moore Dock as a couple of posters have raised it. I believe the announcement for which city has won the Commonwealth Games bid is to be made at the end of September.

I can't see anything being announced by the club with regard to Bramley-Moore Dock until they know if the games will be in Liverpool or not.

The decision will have a huge impact on design etc whichever way it goes,so I think there's some time to wait yet.

Chris Leyland
251 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:44:35
Daren's post (#240) sums it up perfectly. None of us know what is going on.

What we do know for sure, though, is that we can all take part in yet more Ross Barkley threads on ToffeeWeb between now and January 2018... the joy.

Phil Bellis
252 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:44:48
James (#213), Rob (#219),

My source, who can't be named but works in the Baltic, has a filial connection to a bar in Slater Street and is rather hairy, told me at the time of the alleged incident of young Ross's reputation and the behaviour which led to his getting a smack.

I was loathe to believe it but have heard similar since.

Brian Williams
253 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:51:39
Phil (#252),

Could you enlighten me? Not being funny, honest – just curious as I've heard nowt regarding his rep and behaviour etc.

Oliver Molloy
254 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:53:06
James,

Okay, so you reckon the two clearly talk.

I don't , I can't prove it but I believe there is bad form between the two because I have been told so by a person who would be in the know.

You can't prove otherwise can you, or are you banking on your Koeman quote again – proves nothing.

If we won the FA Cup or any trophy I could see Kenwright and Koeman embracing each other with high fives all over the place – proves nothing.

I embraced a few people recently at a funeral and spoke with them for a number of minutes.

A few people were "gossiping" later that I had made up with these people whom I had had some bad blood. Nothing could be further from the truth. These people know I have no time at all for them; however, in the present circumstances and with respect to my friend and family, I did what I thought was right.

My real friends knew exactly what was going on.

So I get the gossip but it works both ways; what I see may be totally different from you in a picture.

Mark Riding
255 Posted 03/09/2017 at 13:55:23
Brian, he puts it about a bit. Has rattled a gangster's bird. Money on his knees if he dosen't get out of town... that sort of stuff is rumoured.
Brent Stephens
256 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:00:40
Peter (#250) cheers. I'm no expert on FFP either. If we'd bought a Number 9 this window and failed to sell Ross at the same time, that would have increased our net spend but I assume that would not count against us re FFP as FFP takes a longer view.

I can see the argument about expectation of loyalty re Ross. On the other hand, if trust has broken down between the two parties, then maybe loyalty (on both sides) goes out of the window.

Maybe the problem with him signing a new contract (to protect Everton's sell-on value) would be that we might not want to sell him at a later date, so he'd be tied into a contract. But maybe that scenario is weak and we would sell on anyway, especially if a buy-out clause were in his contract. So, yes, good point.

Brian Williams
257 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:03:10
Cheers, Mark.
James Watts
258 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:14:08
Oliver (#254).

Last one from me.

I don't reckon they talk. They clearly do talk.

Why would Koeman say 'chairman Bill has told him to be patient as it will happen' if they don't talk? Wouldn't he just say 'the board' as you yourself mentioned on a previous quote? Yet Koeman specifically mentioned Bill by name.

You're saying they don't ever talk. And haven't since March when the supposed bust up happened. That is simply not true. This in turn shows your original post and pretty out-there claims into a shady light, at best.

It can't be any clearer.

John G Davies
259 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:32:53
Can someone please enlighten me.

Who is Norris Cole?
Is he a TW poster?

Rob Halligan
260 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:35:15
John,

Norris Cole is a character in Coronation Street. He's a nosey old sod who thrives on rumour / gossip. Not that I watch it!!

Jack Convery
262 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:40:57
He's played under Moyes, Hodgson, Martinez, Southgate and Koeman.

He's not done it consistently. He can't see the big picture on a football pitch. He can't or won't tackle.

The one thing he is good at is believing the hype. He and his agent realise he's got one good move left and they want it to be Spurs, where he will do as well as Pienaar.

He will leave Spurs for a WBA / Stoke type team mark my words. He's looked after himself and I have no truck with that.

John G Davies
263 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:44:26
Coronation Street?
COROFUCKINNATION STREET?

The washouse indeed.

Rob Halligan
264 Posted 03/09/2017 at 14:55:23
Ah, sorry Jack. I thought he was in Corrie!!
Tony Abrahams
265 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:06:20
Phil @253, if you have heard what I've heard, then I can't believe I had sympathy for Barkley, when this happened.

At least he kept a dignified silence then (which I'm sure he had to) when most of the Everton crowd got right behind him at the next game against Burnley, were I'm sure Koeman took him off early so he could milk the crowds applause?

Saying nothing about why he wants to leave Everton really stinks to me. People can call his silence dignified but I don't find nothing dignified about it personally, and just wish that Koeman would have kept his fucking mouth shut. Because, if he'd remained silent, then I'm sure Ross or his agent would have had to say something to the fans to tell them why he really wants out?

Phil Bellis
266 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:08:02
Mark, Brian:

When the Santa Chupitos story was in the news, I was chatting as you do and said the club should be looking after young players better, advising them to stay out of Dodge after sundown, etc.

I was greeted with raised eyebrows and shakes of the head.

Allegedly, it's well known in certain establishments/areas that the lad has a penchant for pursuing young ladies, attached or otherwise. Apart from the otherwise, nothing most of us haven't done at his age.

Peter Warren
267 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:15:30
Colin (#243) – I wouldn't let two "top managers" cloud your opinion. The quality of the Premier League is poor and has gotten worse with the advent of 3 subs being able to be used and 7 on the bench. Look at the Premier League teams' performances in Europe; to a lesser extent, look at England's performances for the last 13 years.

Ferguson, Wenger (not now), Kendall, Clough, Paisley – now they are good managers.

Your two of the "brightest managers" – I'm unsure about that. Give most managers Messi in their team or Bayern Munich and they will do well. I haven't seen anything at Man City or Spurs to show how good these managers are yet.

Brian Williams
268 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:26:38
Thanks, Phil.
Habib Erkan Jr
269 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:30:03
Wouldn't it be rich if Pochettino was sacked before the New Year?
Oliver Molloy
270 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:44:32
James,

I said Barkley had a meeting with Koeman in late March.
I said Barkley and his agent had gone to Kenwright unhappy with the contract offer.
I said Kenwright gave the impression to Barkley and his agent that he would look at the contract again.
I said Koeman went to Moshiri unhappy with Kenwright.

The only time I mentioned a date was the Barkley meeting with Koeman in late March. The time scale after this I don't know, but would presume it would be ongoing.

You cannot prove to me that Kenwright and Koeman speak to each other directly on a daily basis can you? Just like I can't prove they don't... but, as I say once again, I believe what I have been told (that's where you and I differ), and that there is a dislike between the two which has come about over Barkley.

Perhaps the real truth lies somewhere in-between and I would concede that the two probably do speak on a need-to-know basis.

I only revealed what I had been had been told because, in this instance, I think it sheds a light on things going on at the club we all support, and maybe others had heard the same thing or otherwise.

I am not asking for your or anyone's approval and welcome thoughts on what I post.

Clearly Barkley heading down to London and agreeing terms with Chelsea (medical or no medical) and then pulls the plug, in my opinion shows somebody is taking the piss – it's normally the other way isn't it – pass the medical and agree terms?
Why was Moshiri on Sky commenting on this, and not Kenwright, I wonder?

It seems on this occasion, James, we are not going to agree and that is fair enough.

Daniel Lim
271 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:50:15
260 posts before me. I have only read about 10% and don't feel like going through all of them, just because I feel this guy is the next Barmby. Evertonian my arse!
David Barks
272 Posted 03/09/2017 at 15:59:14
If this site is going to turn into completely unfounded rumour spreading, then it's a sad day. It was one thing when someone had a friend "in the know" about a possible transfer target.

But this latest stuff being spouted by Oliver about secret meetings and schism among ownership and one owner from the manager and it all being down to Barkley, come on. This needs to be stopped. Not what this site is supposed to be.

John G Davies
273 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:00:00
Mark (#255),

Gangster? Hardly. He's fond of tweeting his threats.

Imagine... "Ere Ron, that fella is trying to move in on our clubs."

"Tweet him to leave it aht, Reg" 😀


Phil (#266),

There is no 'allegedly' about it, mate.

Oliver Molloy
274 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:20:34
David (#272).

Secret meetings... did I say that? No is the answer.

Players have meetings with their managers at every club every day, this is normal – especially with players who are not getting a game regularly. Mirallas had a meeting with Koeman last week and look what happened there.

I'm also fairly sure that lots of other meetings go at clubs like Everton, some undoubtedly would be secret / confidential.

I am very interested to hear what Koeman / Kenwright have to say about Rooney's drink driving charge. We'll probably hear nothing until after the court hearing.

Perhaps the two of them will have to get together in secret, James!

Steavey Buckley
275 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:26:30
Barkley is letting down half of Merseyside with a deliberate move to leave Everton without a thought for Everton fans; then he is planning to leave Everton without any sell on fee of any description, while Chelsea did the honourable deed by being prepared to pay Everton a fair amount of money even while Barkley is injured without no return date penciled in.

If Barkley is behaving badly, so are Spurs, who are trying to get Barkley on the cheap at the next transfer window, when they likes of Spurs chairman, Levy, extracts as much as possible when selling players.

Brian Williams
276 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:34:14
Freedom of speech. Up to the editors to stop what they feel should be stopped not other posters. There's a facility to flag comments deemed unsuitable.
Alan J Thompson
277 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:49:58
David (#272);

It's not all completely unfounded rumour. I've just had a great laugh finding out, I think, who Norris Cole is.

Many thanks Rob and Brian.

Jay Wood
278 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:51:14
Ross Barkley?

It's all my fault.

Back in January 2016, on the post-match thread after the home leg of the League Cup semi-final against Man City, I vehemently defended Ross from the criticism he was getting.

This, of course, was half-way through Roberto's third season with us. Ross's first season under Martinez was a cracker, with the team playing some scintillating football which, in another season, could have landed us a Champions League place.

There was a dreadful drop off in Martinez's second season and things didn't improve much in his third season, in spite of getting to the semis of both domestic cups.

One of the few shining lights, however, was the continued development of Ross Barkley. He was often the fulcrum in a poorly performing side, ever ready to receive the ball, showing great ability and strength to receive, turn, break away and lay off the ball with a wonderful array of passing.

That's what I argued in the post-match thread I mentioned. He was very influential in that game, but was getting heavily criticised.

In the return leg, he scored a cracker to give us a 3-1 aggregate lead. I don't need to remind you how that ended.

Thereafter, although the team got through to the semi-final of the FA Cup also, both the team's and Ross's form fell away. Badly.

In pre and early season of Koeman's first season, he spoke glowingly of Ross and the skills he possesses. Quite reasonably, he also said he is no longer a novice player and needed to improve his consistency and overall contribution.

Ross showed it in flashes. He had some MotM performances. Koeman played him in virtually all our games last season, so no ostracism there. But he was also deservedly subbed or dropped a few times.

For me, the development I vehemently defended in January 2016 had stalled. Now, 20 months on, IMO, he has not continued to improve. That's a long time, for a player of his age, to stagnate.

Maybe this is his plateau, the best level we can expect from Ross. If so – and I speak as a huge fan of Ross Barkley – I'm sorry fellah but, it ain't enough.

As for the rumour and counter rumour in this thread, who said and did what, threats from Liverpool gangsters, to dalliances with the ladies, to allegations of drug habits, to the inevitable 'friend of a friend' tittle tattle... phttt!

Now someone, some day, on TW may well be able to categorically demonstrate their 'in the know' source is truly in the know.

Personally, I have read too many of them on here and seen nearly every one of them proven false to lend any credence to such rumours at all.

What I do conclude from actual authenticated audio and video recordings is that the club (Koeman or Moshiri) have not boxed cleverly on this saga, but nor am I so ready to completely exonerate Ross (and his agent) as some wish to do.

Something is clearly awry behind the scenes and I hope lessons are being learnt.

William Cartwright
279 Posted 03/09/2017 at 16:57:30
My thoughts exactly Jay, and expressed more eloquently than my efforts. Thanks for the rational summary.
Mark Riding
281 Posted 03/09/2017 at 17:05:19
image
George Cumiskey
282 Posted 03/09/2017 at 18:11:25
Eddie @216,

My thoughts exactly, mate – they only spent the Lukaku money, then ground to a halt.

Why do people think it's Ross who is making all these decisions, when it's patently obvious he's listening to his agent?

Trevor Peers
283 Posted 03/09/2017 at 18:28:34
Maybe we should have a TW poll on Ross, Fake or True Blue ? Just for fun like.
Paul Tran
284 Posted 03/09/2017 at 18:31:26
Jay, that's a cracking post, apart from the fact that it isn't your fault!
James Marshall
285 Posted 03/09/2017 at 18:47:31
Darren @240. Apologies, I didn't intend to appear to know anything at all from the inside. If you read up I've mentioned this already. The Chelsea post was in response to another poster asking to what their fans thought so I just gave a small insight from an online forum.

I know jack shit about the inner workings of Everton!

Will Mabon
286 Posted 03/09/2017 at 18:53:39
I'm struggling to distill the personality of a man who is apparently a true blue, an airhead, soft, shy, sensitive, has no guts for the fight, goes missing in adversity, and yet - serially knobs gangsters' molls in his own locale, has a bad rep. around town, tried to influence his hard-assed manager, is shrewd enough to turn a deal with Levy, and hard-faced enough to nonchalantly continue his playing career on the stage where he is so fragile after carrying it through, with the whole football knowing what he did.

What an unusual character he must be.

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
287 Posted 03/09/2017 at 19:05:29
Oliver's 'revelations' do present something of a challenge, in that they cannot be substantiated.. therefore, why should they be believed? (Or even allowed on the site, per David's stringent standards.)

And depending on your preconceived notions (yes, 'confirmation bias' once again rears its ugly if unrecognized head), you may be inclined to give some credence to what Oliver is reporting... or you may not. James nit-picking one technicality brings the whole house of cards crashing down??? Not really... As Jay concludes: "Something is clearly awry behind the scenes".

To me, the vehemence with which these possibly informative stories are attacked says more about one's ability to accept it for what it is... gossip that may or may not actually contain some elements of truth. How does this differ materially from what now appears on plenty of media sites (accessible in great numbers via NewsNow Everton)? They all did such a great job of fact-checking throughout the endless weeks of the transfer window, after all... but I digress.

It's the not knowing that drives us mad.

Brian Williams
288 Posted 03/09/2017 at 19:46:34
..........and talking of newsnow. Interesting if true.

http://www.football.london/tottenham-hotspur-fc/transfer-news/ross-barkley-everton-chelsea-spurs-13567205

Paul A Smith
289 Posted 03/09/2017 at 20:58:25
Oliver Molloy. I don't know if your post is 100% true but I did predict a similar scenario a while ago, and spoke of it on here. Barkley had several meetings with Koeman and, after these meetings, Koeman revealed Barkley felt singled out.

I don't think that will have made Barkley too happy as he will have felt it should be kept private and what could have had substance made him out to be a sulk.

I don't think Koeman wants to lose him and, as some people have pointed out, his translation is not great. I don't know if that works between a player and man-management but something between them seems to have definitely broken down?

"Not guaranteed to start" may have been Koeman's way of pushing Barkley but the dialogue has somewhere backfired. Like the editor says, it's the not knowing that kills us.

I still believe Everton is Barkley's place. Surely a simple sit-down between all parties could make things more clear?

Alan Smith
290 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:11:57
Oh my God.

You're a moaner for raising valid concerns about the transfer policy and Koeman's negative team selections and tactics. However, Barkley rowing over the captaincy and grown men running off to major shareholders about the row, is taken seriously?

Ross will sign a pre-contract in January for another club because that is the logical thing to do. Unless Everton suddenly decide to be a big club and give him a lucrative contract and sign some top players.

Anything else, rows, captancies etc... true or not, is frankly irrelevant.

Also can anyone on ToffeeWeb please explain why Barkley has to continually improve season on season despite being one of our top performers? Why can't he remain at this good level, and be judged fairly?

Is Gana better than last year? Is Schneiderlin?

And have you all checked Barkley's stats in a poor Everton side compared to Gerrard's, Lampard's and Scholes's stats up to age 23? And they were in very good sides.


Oliver Molloy
291 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:14:07
I'm wondering is it possible this journalist McGarry is correct in that Barkley did have a medical and failed the medical.

If this is the case, isn't it a sort of code of conduct for the buying club to say nothing as a respect thing unless the buying club feel the selling club were totally lying and trying to get one over on them?

Did Barkley go all the way to London thinking this would force Spurs' hand and they would come in for him?

Contrary to what has been reported in the media and silence from Chelsea to Barkley's tweet, one would have to say, until proven otherwise, Barkley must be telling the truth regards the medical – something very funny going on.

Oliver Molloy
292 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:32:39
Paul, Sorry our posts crossed.

Koeman knows Barkley is good and probably the most skilful player at the club and wanted him to prove it; this why I don't get why Barkley's supporters are annoyed at Koeman calling on Barkley to show him more on the football pitch .

He knows he's a local lad who has been at the club since he was kid. He challenged Barkley to rise up The opportunity for Barkley to be the new Rooney, our Gerrard, has been pointed out many times on this forum, many times. The manager likes Barkley the football player and wants the best out of him for all concerned.

Koeman knows if he could get Barkley playing like he did in Martinez's first season with us, we would all be happy and the rest would take care of itself.

It's Barkley the person that Koeman most likely has issues with, in my opinion. If Barkley gets fit (and is respectful, as he made clear), I do believe Koeman will give him a game; the rest is up to Ross.

Christine Foster
293 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:39:02
Or simply that Bill called Barkley when discussions where underway and assured / pleaded with him not to go... that wouldn't surprise me as he is clearly loved by the Chairman.

That would make more sense than all the BS about doing the dirty on Everton FC.

Christine Foster
294 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:43:09
Oliver, it could well be that Barkley didn't like being singled out and publicly shamed on his performance and then given ultimatums on confidential commercial contracts (his) in the press. I think Barkley has a point.
Christine Foster
295 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:45:42
Which probably led to a falling out with Koeman and Kenwright...? Like a jigsaw all the pieces then fit, but is it the real picture? Could be a lot closer than most...
Oliver Molloy
296 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:47:56
Christine,

You would think he would need Moshiri's permission to do that and, after what Moshiri's said on his Sky shambles, somehow I don't think that happened!

But I would not at all be surprised if Barkley signed a contract with Everton because you are of course correct in that Kenwright desperately wanted him to stay.

Paul A Smith
297 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:55:25
Oliver, no need to apologise. I wasn't saying the same thing and I hadn't heard any gossip, mate. I just believe they have lost each other through probably what Barkley saw as bad man-management coupled with a contract offer he didn't like.

Alan is saying what gets missed about Barkley all the time. He plays against international defenders most games now; it's not quite like Lampard and Gerrard running at Stubbs and Colin Cooper when they broke through.

Them players also had the fear factor of their clubs surrounding them. What has Barkley had around him? James McCarthy and, as most Evertonians put it, a lazy Lukaku.

A Barkley misplaced pass gets more highlighted than any player I have ever known. Nobody ever mentions Gerrard playing the opposition through on goal in massive games several times.

Fair enough, he and Lampard played great too... but they had lots of quality around them.

Brent Stephens
298 Posted 03/09/2017 at 21:59:59
Will #286 - he's got an agent. Perhaps the explanation.
James Macdonald
299 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:06:31
On any objective view, Ross is acting in an entirely reasonable and logical way. Why should he join Chelsea seemingly without any assurances on his playing opportunities and personal contact with Conte?

The fact Chelsea made their move so late and apparently without much forward planning must have raised serious questions to Ross. Against that when his fee drops to say 10-15 million in January and for free in summer I would wager that every club in the Premier League will be interested and quite a few further afield.

I don't think we can expect players to focus on transfer fees paid for their services. Ultimately, why should Ross potentially sacrifice his career so Everton can get £20 million more because that is the equation here? Who in his shoes would honestly have signed for Chelsea?

Mark Morrissey
300 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:10:04
It's healthy to read that some of us think that Koeman may make amends with Ross. All the hatred towards Ross is, in my opinion, too harsh. I see Ross as a talented footballer who, if nurtured, could be a late developer and grow in a similar fashion to the way Gylfi has over recent years.

It's all rather crude this relationship that is talked about between Ross and Ron, between Moshiri and Ross, between all the different aspects of the club.

This time last year, we all seem to be galvanising and coming together with the prospect of a new owner, the new ground etc... but now, it seems to me to be falling apart. Wayne has added fuel to fire because of his extra curricular activities.

I just hope that someone can sit Ross and Ron down and get them to show some accord. It's starting to fester like a sore and it needs lancing, sooner rather than later. They need to make amends and focus on the football.

The focus ought to be on Spurs next weekend and we need to get back on track for a successful season. There's too much angst at the club and, if we're not careful, the wheel is going to come off and right now it wouldn't take much to ruin our entire season.

Nicholas Ryan
301 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:11:02
Steve (#187) makes a good point, ie, that there is a way out of this, which could suit everyone. Ross signs a new contract, with a buy-out clause at about £30m.

If Spurs or Chelsea activate it in January, he goes; if not, he stays. If he stays and has a really good season, then the buy-out figure can be raised, by agreement.

Andy Meighan
302 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:12:37
Great post from Alan (#290).

I've called Barkley at times only because, in my mind, a lad with that much talent should be utilising it better.

Be honest – regardless of whether he's a scouser and a born Blue, the kid has everything in his locker to be a great. Two good feet, a great turn of pace, a lovely eye for a pass, and a great physique – tall, slender – just the right frame for today's footballer.

So where's it going wrong? It's obvious Koeman doesn't suffer fools so he won't indulge him and maybe that's where the relationship has broken down. Martinez seemed to be an arm-round-the-shoulder type; Koeman seems the opposite... the archetypal Dutchman if you like.

One thing's certain: I'd rather see the likes of Barkley on the ball than the likes of Gueye and Schneiderlin. Decent players, of course, but they couldn't thread a needle – let alone a defence with a killer pass.

Personally I think this is about personalities and the likes of Oliver Molloy can speculate all they like. I personally know someone who's got a high profile job at Everton and when I ask him what's going on he always says the same: "I know as much as you – they tell me sod all" – and that's genuine!

Oliver Molloy
303 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:19:24
Paul,

Well Barkley has better players round him now so I don't get it. My opinion is he isn't happy with what the club have offered him because he simply thinks he is worth more or at least the same as the likes of Schneiderlin.

Barkley sees himself as the best footballer at the club, as do a lot people – including many of the players.

Christine,

I also agree he may not be happy at being called out by Koeman, but my opinion is that Koeman was looking for a response early in the season and he got it to a certain extent.

The contract ultimatum was Koeman stating the obvious when asked the question what would happen if he didn't sign the contract.

Koeman obviously fancies him – right, he's played him often enough. Some may argue that this was only because he had no-one else.

I think it's a personality issue and Ross has the hump with Koeman; we will see what happens but nothing should surprise us!

Alan Smith
304 Posted 03/09/2017 at 22:26:50
Maybe Everton are trying to get Barkley on the cheap. Or sell him because we want the money, and that's what we do.

The same tactics were used with Lukaku. As if Lukaku would sign for £140k a week. That offer was made to make a stupid fan base believe it's a good deal because it's our highest ever offer and we wanted to keep him. But the board knew he could get £200k at a host of other clubs. We might as well have offered a penny.

Cash in but we tried our best to keep him. Honest, we did!

Barkley waits for years patiently. Probably on a relatively low wage. He is expecting good players to come in, and a market value wage offer, of say £120k a week. He is left waiting until there is only 18 months left on his contract and only gets offered £90-100k. He is left out of games, never played central midfield, Lukaku leaves, manager outbursts etc etc

Why not run your contract down and get your £120k from spurs, and half of the £35m of your transfer value?

Imagine him in the box to box Dembele role. Alongside a def with Eriksen, Son and Ali to link up with. Hitting balls into Kane.

But he should have give up a whopping signing on fee for Everton. Who's fans always criticise him, who's manager always singles him out and who's boards are charlatans.

Our fans are mad. End of story. We had Barkley, Stones and Lukaku and Rooney on his way. The two best full backs in the league.

But, instead of demanding 3 or 4 World Class players to drag these youngsters into the Champions League, it let us get a hard-on over Sigurdsson in Koeman's, Walsh's and Moshiri's sell-to-buy (average players) and break-even policy!

If Moshiri had only bought Pickford, Gana, Rooney, Sandro, Koulibaly, Draxler, and paid Barkley and Lukaku mega-money to stay, we're would be now?

And he, or we, could have easily afforded to have done this.

James Macdonald
305 Posted 03/09/2017 at 23:51:16
It seems to be received wisdom that Ross will go to Spurs in January, but I have a lingering hope that if he is fit for November that Koeman will play him and he may be persuaded to stay. I don't think Rooney, Sigurdsson and Klaassen can play in the same team as there is not enough pace.

Ultimately Ross is a better player than all of them and I really only see Gylfi having particular qualities that could lead to him playing over and above Ross. I see Klaassen competing with Davies an then Sigurdsson taking the number 10 role/ left and Ross taking the right side role drifting inwards.

Pickford

Coleman
Keane
Williams
Baines

Schneiderlin
Davies
Klaassen

Sigurdsson

Barkley
Ramirez
Calvert-Lewin

Gana or Besic would come in for Klaassen or Davies when playing away or against the top 6, and I see some rotating between Barkley, Sigurdsson and Rooney depending on form and fatigue.

I think having Calvert-Lewin and Ramirez in there would provide the pace and movement to stretch teams and make the most of our creative talents. I would also like to see Lookman used more often.

So Ron – offer Ross a bumper contract.

John Audsley
306 Posted 03/09/2017 at 23:58:06
When will all this fucking bollocks ever end.

I like Ross but FFS!!!!

Alan J Thompson
307 Posted 04/09/2017 at 05:56:11
James (#305); How many times does it need saying; you're only allowed eleven.
Paul A Smith
309 Posted 04/09/2017 at 06:47:22
John (#306). I think it will end when the club and some fans have the ambitions of Spurs, Chelsea, Man Utd etc. If we want to keep a top player we need to give them an offer that puts them up with the best and tell him his future is here so crack on.

All over Europe there are clubs stopping players moving but we seem to love it. Sell Barkley and bring Klaassen in on less money is still the theme of the club.

Paul Ward
310 Posted 04/09/2017 at 06:59:09
How unrealistic are some Evertonians? Barkley is finished at this club, so get used to it.
Paul A Smith
311 Posted 04/09/2017 at 07:16:00
Paul (#310), he is as finished as Sanchez, Van Dijk, Coutinho at their clubs.

I wouldn't put him in the Costa bracket yet.

James Watts
312 Posted 04/09/2017 at 07:23:48
Paul (#309).

You think Barkley is a top player? Not me. I think he's an okay player. Nothing more. Sure he has loads of ability but he doesn't convert that anywhere near enough to be considered a top player, especially in the last few years.

If the reported offer to Barkley was true circa. £100k a week, that is up there for us as a club and more than he's reportedly going to get at Spurs. And don't forget Chelsea reportedly offered and agreed with him £155k and he or them (depending on the version you believe) turned down the move.

Not quite all over Europe teams are stopping players from moving. There were some sure but lots of top players moved. Neymar, Mbappe, Walker, Bonucci, Matic to name a small selection. Therefore not quite as clear cut as that.

And Klaassen is on more than Barkley right now and by the time Barkley goes we'll probably get less than the £24m we paid for Klaassen. So again, not really correct what you're saying, fella.

Will Mabon
313 Posted 04/09/2017 at 07:24:40
"Will #286 - he's got an agent. Perhaps the explanation."

Was partly my point really, Brent, if things are as rumoured. I doubt the player himself would be orchestrating the moves he's accused of, wholly of his own volition. What a mess it is.

Paul A Smith
314 Posted 04/09/2017 at 08:58:33
James (#312), you usually do make your own version of what everyone says.

I didn't say all teams – I said "all over Europe". Keita, Sanchez, Coutinho, Griezmann are just a few who were told they couldn't move this summer. That's without searching through every league where I am sure more players have been told they cannot move yet.

Lots of top players move every summer, James, I didn't dispute that, but just by them simple few names i think it's fair to say clubs all over Europe are also stopping players from moving yet.

I think he is a top player. I'm not sure Chelsea are ever in for anything but top players? The fact this site alone in majority thinks he is going to Spurs suggests he must be better than okay.

As of Klaassen, I have never seen his wage slip but after 4 years at the club, I seriously suspect whatever they offer Barkley would have to be more than Klaassen is on. Hence selling him to replace him with Klaassen was the idea.

I also find it shocking you have the idea he will earn more here than at Spurs? Unless you believe the papers, of course, but in what world does a player with virtually no fee end up worse off?

Ian Hollingworth
315 Posted 04/09/2017 at 09:09:59
So did Moshiri actually say on Sky that Ross had a medical and pulled out? If he did and Ross says he did not, then where does that leave Moshiri?

I am starting to worry about Mr Moshiri. Only at Everton.

We really need the players to knuckle down now and start delivering some positive performances.

Colin Glassar
316 Posted 04/09/2017 at 09:50:43
Ian, last summer Moshiri came out on the Jim White show and said something along the lines of, "We couldn't sell James McCarthy because he is part of the Everton family."

Now this season he's done the same regarding Ross Barkley, embarrassing himself, the club and the fans (well, I was embarrassed).

Now I don't know what goes on behind the scenes but these public outbursts have all the trademark signs of a Billy Bullshitter PR stunt.

So who's pulling who's strings? Who's really in charge at Everton? What is Bill's real role and why is he still there? Why didn't Moshiri get us the striker we all know we needed? What's happening with the stadium?

Instead of making a fool of himself on the Jim White Show, Moshiri should make a public statement answering some of these concerns. A good sign of intent would be to sack Billy Liar and all of his useless cronies.

James Watts
317 Posted 04/09/2017 at 09:53:21
Paul (#314). So basically you're saying I was right?
Paul A Smith
318 Posted 04/09/2017 at 09:57:33
James. No. But I thought you would say that.

Colin. The McCarthy family thing was just the start of Moshiri's bullshit. Kenwright locking himself in dark rooms after defeat was his next one.

It's incredibly sad for me seeing the amount of arse-licking our fanbase has given this man. And mostly because his name isn't Bill.

James Watts
319 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:06:05
Colin (#316). That phone call Moshiri made re Barkley was embarrassingly bad. The first few times I heard it, I thought it was fake. It sounded like someone putting on a fake accent as it was so bad.

However, as he hasn't come out and said it wasn't him, it must be him. Which in turn doesn't fill with with much optimism in his leadership.

I think we're are just destined to be made miserable by Everton.

Paul A Smith
320 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:16:12
The headlines about Rooney's possible divorce in today's papers is just so typical of luck regarding anything Everton.

If he was at Man Utd, he could have got rave bedroom reviews off this bird he's pulled and Coleen would have said he's going through a difficult time not knowing what to do in international breaks.

Brian Harrison
321 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:18:32
I see Joey Barton has given his opinion on Barkley not signing for Chelsea.

He said he heard that, before signing, Barkley wanted to speak to Conte about his role in the team. So when he got down to have his medical, he rang Conte who, according to Barton, had his phone turned off all day. So Barton says he thinks Barkley has come to the conclusion that, by not taking his call, then Conte wasn't interested in him, so Barkley called off the deal.

I have no idea how Joey Barton would know this but I am only passing on what he said, so don't shoot the messenger.

John Smith
322 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:19:13
Barry Thompson (#232),

That article doesn't prove anything. It does not state we never tried to extend his contract previous to that, which I believe we did. It was around the 2-year point of Barkley's contract ending where we offered a new one.

Barkley's been diddling for over a year now. You can't blame the club if the player chooses not to sign an extension. Takes two to tango. You seem to be of the opinion that only the club's position matters alone. My point stands.

Paul A Smith
323 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:25:40
Brian (#322), I saw that Joey Barton version and laughed my head. Our fans will love it though, that kind of nonsense gets major respect.

It might be just my way of thinking but I am pretty sure Barkley is not the type to be demanding a call to Conte. I can't even imagine an Italian player demanding that.

It is funny though.

Tony Abrahams
324 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:34:59
Paul, if you were signing for a new club, for £35 Million, then the very least you would expect is to speak to the manager about his plans for you and were he best thinks you might fit into the team?

I'm not really bothered by what Barton says, but this is what I'd expect if I was a football player though. I honestly can't believe Chelsea actually went for him, considering how bad Barkley played against them last season, especially the game at Goodison, were he got smothered and then looked lost?

John G Davies
325 Posted 04/09/2017 at 10:35:16
If true, you can't blame Ross for pulling out.
Tony Everan
326 Posted 04/09/2017 at 11:09:08
Why didn't he just ask the club to contact Conte on his behalf? Surely they would have easily connected him privately.

Conte probably didn't want journos etc harassing him on his work phone.

The whole thing is a joke and as unprofessional as it gets. The agents or admin involved are useless; I could do a better job.

Colin Glassar
327 Posted 04/09/2017 at 11:51:36
Chelsea probably just wanted Ross to comply with their 'homegrown' quota. I doubt he would've been anything more than a squad player.

As for the now infamous phone call, I too thought it was a hoax but Jim White did seem to have it all set up. I wonder what the great announcement was suppose to be?

FM – "Jim we have sold Ross Barkley to Chelsea for a fantastic fee. Unfortunately, despite trying our best, we have been unable to replace Ross, Lukaku, Stones, Deulofeu, Arteta etc But we have learned our lesson and this will not happen again."

JW – "Fantastic news, Farhad, my friend."

FM – "Talk to you next summer again, Jim, or can you just use this recording once again? It'll save us both some time."

Paul A Smith
328 Posted 04/09/2017 at 12:03:55
Tony (#325). If somebody is paying that for me, I would fully expect all them tiny details to be clear. I can't see a club agreeing a deal and then the manager wanting to talk tactics with the player?
John Smith
329 Posted 04/09/2017 at 13:40:28
"Ross Barkley wanted clarity on Chelsea role but Antonio Conte went silent"
According to Joey Barton.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/642334/Chelsea-Ross-Barkley-Antonio-Conte-silent-phone-Transfer-News-Joey-Barton-Everton-Spurs

Kim Vivian
330 Posted 04/09/2017 at 13:49:35
Posts 325 thru 329. Sounds fair enough to some extent. However, I find it extremely unlikely that things would progress anywhere without initially discussing his perceived role. Never mind fees and medicals etc, unless the guy is just desperate to get away.

Another one to file under "wet finger in the air".

James Marshall
331 Posted 04/09/2017 at 13:55:46
Can we just say this: none of us actually know what happened.

Barkley, his agent, the club, everyone involved made a big mess of it.

Ross looks like he'll leave in January as requested.

That about covers it, I reckon.

Darren Hind
332 Posted 04/09/2017 at 13:59:47
Ross Barkley is an Everton player. Not even this manager would cut off his nose to spite his face. Of course he will play for us again

Post #145 – "Who is Norris Cole?" Nobody biting?

Post #259 – "Can somebody please enlighten me, who is Norris Cole, Is he a poster?"

If you really want to know and you are not just pretending you don't.. you could always go back to the "Barkley punched in a bar" thread. The guy who posts at 210 has explained all.

Paul Tran
333 Posted 04/09/2017 at 14:25:48
Dead right he'll play for us again. He'll get the winner at Wembley, from a Niasse cross. And then he'll run to the touchline to hug Unsy.

Seriously, I hope him and Koeman sort it out and he stays. He'll be better here with more mobile players around him.

I don't think Spurs will be a happy place when they don't win anything again and their players look to leave for better wages.

Now Darren, let's have some more of that poetry!

Sean Patton
334 Posted 04/09/2017 at 14:36:30
Of course he won't play again. By the time he is fit in November, he won't want to risk being injured 6 weeks before the window opens.

I wish people would wake up and smell the coffee. Barkley doesn't want to be here. It's immaterial who the manager is – he wants out.

Darren Hind
336 Posted 04/09/2017 at 14:53:02
You know my thoughts, Paul. I hope they don't sort it and the rift will help rid us of a poor manager... one nail at a time.

Too long? Even when you are on here all day? No worries – anybody else can find it in seconds.

Derek Wadeson
337 Posted 04/09/2017 at 15:01:11
Darren Hind – have you been to see the play "Ball of Fire"?
James Marshall
338 Posted 04/09/2017 at 16:29:00
Joey Barton reckons it was because Conte switched his phone off, and refused to speak to Ross.

Joey should get an account on here.

Brian Williams
340 Posted 04/09/2017 at 19:08:05
Saw Bainsey in town today, should have asked him "what's goin' on" but he was incognito!
Ray Smith
341 Posted 04/09/2017 at 19:40:37
I've said it in other posts. Ross is a very good footballer with the perceived potential to reach the dizzy heights of stardom. However, the space between his ears is sadly lacking in respect of realising what a fool he is making of himself. Badly advised by the people pulling his strings.

Can't take constructive criticism, for his own good.

Tapped up by Spurs, but no guarantee of a start. Believed to have accepted a lower pay offer to join them.

If the boy (and that's what he is) had a business brain he would be dangerous.

Swallow your pride, knuckle down and fight for your place in a team that is going places.

Injured, yes, but how seriously; very convenient at the moment. World Cup, forget it.

Starting berth in a top 6 side forget it.

Grow up, Ross. Rant over.

Alan Smith
342 Posted 04/09/2017 at 21:38:15
For all the "Barkley doesn't do it enough":

Barkley age 23, 21 Premier League goals.

Gerrard age 23, 20 Premier League goals.

Scholes age 23, 21 Premier League goals.

Lampard age 23, 24 Premier League goals (all at West ham too).

James (#312),

Is Barkley not a top player? Is content wrong then?

Ray Smith
343 Posted 04/09/2017 at 22:24:38
Alan (#342),

Good point you make. However at age 23 Gerrard, Scholes and Lampard had grown up. Unfortunately Ross hasn't.

I take your point and if Ross grew up and knuckled down, he would outdo the 3 great players you have identified as comparisons.

James Watts
344 Posted 04/09/2017 at 23:54:00
Alan (#342).

No, Barkley isn't a top player. Not in my opinion. Granted, my opinion doesn't count for anything though!

He has amazing natural ability but he doesn't have it between the ears to be a top player.

Stats put him in a good light, never debated that. Inconsistency on the pitch paints a completely different picture. He may fulfil his ability, he may not, but at he can’t hold a candle to any of those players you mention for output right now..

Danny Broderick
347 Posted 05/09/2017 at 00:21:27
Alan (342),

Barkley is not a top player. The other three all offered far more all over the pitch than Ross, who has only had to devote his efforts to the final third of the pitch in a free role. The other three won far more tackles and headers and ran more while still matching his attacking output.

No-one doubts Barkley's ability, and we all want him to succeed, but compare him to Dele Alli. I watched Dele Alli for England tonight and I didn't think he had a great game. However, he still has a nuisance value because of the positions he takes up. He also gives the opposition plenty of needle, and remains a threat throughout even when he is not having a great game technically.

When the wind isn't blowing in Ross's direction, he is a passenger. He doesn't take up good positions. He doesn't keep the team's shape, and his head goes down.

Ability-wise, Ross is far better than Dele Alli, but in reality, he is light years behind him, because he is not streetwise. He's 24 now also; he is no longer a kid – we have to admit that Ross is never going to fulfil his potential. Hopefully he will still have a decent career somewhere, but I think Leon Osman summed up Barkley and Rodwell correctly when he described them as 'academy players'.

They have been molly cuddled and praised all their lives in small sided games in a perfect environment. They were naturally the best players in their age groups, but men's football has swallowed them up. They can't cope in the cut and thrust where results matter, and the whole country views games as a matter of life and death.

Brian Williams
348 Posted 05/09/2017 at 00:46:50
Somebody said, maybe on this thread maybe another, but I hadn't seen it posted anywhere else and thought what a good, valid point he made. He said, and I'm paraphrasing, maybe Ross Barkley has fulfilled his potential, maybe he's as good as he's ever going to be. If that's the case there's nothing wrong with that. He's better than a lot of players and not as good as some.

The guy who raised this point also said something along the lines of Messi not getting ever better without stopping but rather reaching a very high level and maintaining it. He questioned whether we expected Messi to just continue to get better and better and better forever. I know age and players speed of development come into it but maybe Ross has peaked, rather than his progress having halted.

Maybe we look at Scholes, Lampard, and Gerrard with wishful thinking when we should maybe be prepared to accept that Ross will never be on a par with those players. Maybe we just all want more than Ross has to give.

This "fulfilling his potential" has become a stick to beat the lad with and he MAY have already done that, just not to the heights we all hoped for.

With regard to his present predicament, I think ,because we watch our heroes, the players who release us from our ordinary lives and give us (sometimes), the pure joy we get from our football and our football club, we expect them to be as gifted and skilled and in control of matters not concerned with the 90 minutes on the pitch.

Rooney has been a football genius but the man has faults a plenty and off the pitch has shown he can be a complete idiot. "Maybe" Ross has made a bad decision or two as well; maybe not.

Personally I'd love a solution to be found that would allow Ross to remain at our club and for us to be able to enjoy the player he is rather than forever seeking the player he may never be.

John G Davies
349 Posted 05/09/2017 at 06:57:54
Alan (#342),

He won't turn out to be a fraction of the players you mention.

Paul A Smith
350 Posted 05/09/2017 at 08:44:10
John 349. He's playing in a much tougher era. Calvert-Lewin won't be as good as Shearer either. Is Coutinho better than Gerrard? The era of today is far more tactical and difficult to shine in. Look how difficult Rooney has found it over the last few years. It's taken a move back a level to rejuvenate him.

Like Alan says, why does Barkley have to keep improving but nobody else does? The manager talks about "productivity". Even with 10 stray passes, who in that side is more productive than Barkley? Gana? Calvert-Lewin? Davies?

Rooney, Sigurdsson and hopefully Klaassen can be them productive players along with Barkley if he returns to the side. I don't think having too many good players is a problem.

John G Davies
351 Posted 05/09/2017 at 08:58:39
Paul,

Do you think any of them three would not be as good in today's game?

Tony Abrahams
352 Posted 05/09/2017 at 09:24:40
Paul A 328, fair enough mate, but I was just putting myself in the players shoes.

If I was signing for a team, unless it was Everton, then I would expect to talk to my new manager, or his assistant.

I think this would be especially true for Ross, Paul, because if we took the manager out of the equation, then surely he would have just signed another contract with Everton!!!!!!!!

James Watts
353 Posted 05/09/2017 at 09:46:00
Paul #350.

Personally, I don't think you can compare Countinho v Gerrard. Not because of eras but because of the fact they play in different positions and are not like for like.

Barkley needs to keep on improving because he's been way too inconsistent except for one good season. As Alan says, that may be his level. And if it is, then I'm glad he's likely moving on.

The frustrating thing is with Barkley is we all know he's an exceptional player but doesn't show it anywhere near enough. Those stats show he has similar about of goals as some of the best midfielders to grace the modern era in England. However, with those players at that age they were very consistent in their overall game outside of goals (passes, tackling, and so on) . Barkley isn't.

And those 10 stray passes normally happen in a 10-minute period followed by a 70-minute period of walking around aimlessly before being subbed (okay, exaggeration but you get the picture), so I wouldn't call that being any more productive than anyone else myself. Productivity isn't just a killer ball once every x amount of games; it's all those other things that make a team a better proposition going forward.

I guess the true litmus test is going to be once Sigursdsson has had a season with us as he is the direct replacement for Ross and we see his stats v Ross's. The type of football we'll be playing looks like it'd be the same so they should be comparable at least!

Tony Everan
354 Posted 05/09/2017 at 09:46:39
Danny (#347),

The sentiments in your post are the closest to the truth. In some respects maybe the move is what could do it for him. Maybe he needs to get out of the comfort zone To become a man.

It is a sad thought, but moving may turn him into the world class footballer he has the potential to be.

Paul A Smith
355 Posted 05/09/2017 at 10:37:29
John (#351), I think they would have the same ability but wouldn't shine half as much.

Tony (#352), I believe the same as your last paragraph mate. If he did want that call to Conte, it would show he thought of managers before clubs.

James (#353), I think I can compare Coutinho to Gerrard. Gerrard played plenty behind Torres and Suarez in his time there but I was talking about productivity players anyway.

No matter what compares with Barkley or Sigurdsson (which I found odd considering you don't compare what you call non-similar and Sigurdsson starts wide), Barkley would still produce more than at least 7 other starters in our team. No two ways about it really.

In fact, put his game next to David Silva and I bet they end with similar stats but because you don't watch Silva every week for 90 mins you don't think he gives the ball away or loses sloppy possession. But they all do.

Not a hit at you, by the way, fans in general naturally think like that.

Tony Abrahams
356 Posted 05/09/2017 at 12:21:57
I bet you that no Man City fan would want to swap Silvia for Barkley though, whereas most Evertonians would love to swap these two players, even though one should still have his best years in front of him, whilst the other one is past the peak of his powers.

The reason is simple and has nothing to do with stats either because, whilst Silva glides through games, Ross Barkley only glides around the edge of a game.

Steve Ferns
357 Posted 05/09/2017 at 12:24:02
Tony, judging by the look of Silva in the last few games, I think they have swapped him for Steven Ireland.
John G Davies
358 Posted 05/09/2017 at 12:31:37
Paul (#355),

Why do you think they wouldn't shine half as much?

Paul Scholes and Henry are the two best players I have seen in 25 years of the Premier League.

Dave Wilson
359 Posted 05/09/2017 at 13:32:30
I don't have a crystal ball, so I wont make any predictions, but Barkley was ahead of those players mentioned at the age of 23. Gyfli hadn't even played top class football at that age. I'd like to see him giving an opportunity to at least reach whatever potential he has in a blue shirt

While Chelsea, Liverpool and Man United were desperate to nurture the obvious potential their guys showed at 23. We seem to have a lot of people (including a manager) who are hell bent on strangling any hope of Barkley developing for us.

I don't think I have ever seen fans of any club act with such unsavory spite towards one of their own. We none of us even know the true story.

Much of the conjecture, the insinuation and the outright lies appear to born solely out of a desire to look appear in the know... Totally unnecessary.

Stan Schofield
360 Posted 05/09/2017 at 13:57:34
I don't think the game has got harder over the years of the Premier League. It's become faster with more emphasis on 'pressing', but in some ways this is to make up for what seems a lack of high footballing skill and brains.

There seems too much focus on the fitness and stamina side, on the speed players can move, whereas anticipating the next move with a football and making accurate passes can have the most effect in a game.

It's the slickness of movement, not the speed of players, that separates the really best sides from the average ones. On this basis, there's reason to believe the signings we've made could improve us considerably, so long as Koeman gets the organisation and tactics sorted. And Barkley's instinctive style of play could then work most effectively.

John G Davies
361 Posted 05/09/2017 at 14:27:18
It's got softer, Stan; good hard tackles are frowned upon nowadays.
Michael McCarthy
362 Posted 05/09/2017 at 15:21:43
Dave Wilson (359), I couldn't agree more.
Colin Metcalfe
363 Posted 05/09/2017 at 15:52:07
Stan (#360) – brilliant post; I could not agree more.

I will keep saying it until I am blue in the face that modern footballers are better athletes but not better footballers!!

And furthermore, I am shocked how some players make the grade with such basic footballing skills.

Steve Ferns
364 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:22:34
It's far too serious in here, and my David Silva / Stephen Ireland joke didn't get a laugh.

I couldn't believe it in the Man City game when I saw the commentator calling someone who looked like Ireland, Silva. It's like Silva lost a bet in training. What's next, Pickford has to do a "Howard"?

Paul Tran
365 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:22:47
Completely agree, Stan.
Tony Abrahams
366 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:31:33
Because, as you say, Colin, they are better athletes?

I've only seen Silva play against us, Steve, ten against eleven, still have more touches than any of our midfielder in advanced positions, but I definitely think he's past his best now though.

Good footballers contribute, whereas very good footballers do so much more for the rest of the team, and I'm not sure that everyone needs stats to determine the difference.

Tony Abrahams
367 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:34:24
Sorry, Steve, it was way over my head, mate!
Steve Ferns
368 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:43:40
Steve Ferns
369 Posted 05/09/2017 at 16:53:05
Actually, Stephen Ireland is a good one to keep in mind when discussing Barkley. And I say this as someone who thinks Everton should move heaven and earth to keep him, that Koeman should eat humble pie and give him whatever assurances he wants, and to build the whole side around him.

All the Man City fans I knew thought Ireland was going to be a superstar. It was quite similar in terms of just how much they hoped and expected from him, and the fact that he was a creative player. Ireland's career has been a disaster.

The difference from Barkley – he blew it due to his off-the-field activities and wanting to live the life too much. Nightclub incident aside, there's little evidence of that from Barkley. But it's worth remembering just how much the Man City fans all thought of Ireland and how much of a disappointment he ended up being.

Tony Abrahams
370 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:03:36
I shouldn't call someone I don't know a lunatic, but that Steven Ireland did and also said a lot of very stupid things, whereas I think it's very clear that Ross knows how to keep his mouth shut.
John G Davies
371 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:06:40
Daddy Dick was his nom de plume on a shady website, if I recall, Tony.

No idea if it was in relation to the length of his three for a bob.

Tony Abrahams
372 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:14:48
I don't reckon Barkley needs shady websites, even if I've heard he's a shady little...
Paul A Smith
373 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:20:13
John (#358).

They would be as good as they were then ability-wise but their opposition would be far tougher. No teams dominate between the top 4 now and the games are far tighter.

That's how I see it; anyway, like I said earlier, everyone is an international now, mate, Gerrard laced Hibbert how many times but I couldn't see Coleman suffering the same terrorism.

John G Davies
374 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:23:37
Only opinions, mate; we will have to agree to disagree.
👍
Steve Ferns
375 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:24:15
When did Gerrard 'lace' Hibbert – and what does that even mean?

Hibbo was a limited footballer, but defensively he was sound. I can never recall him making more than one mistake a game or ever having a nightmare.

John G Davies
376 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:26:21
He doesn't, Tony, just fronts it right up. And pays the price on occasions.
Tony Abrahams
377 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:43:43
I think the only time I ever saw Tony Hibbert have a nightmare was against Chelsea, in what was probably the biggest game of his career?

I blamed Fellaini that day, but I've never watched the game since so I was probably wrong, although I did think we improved dramatically once Cahill pushed up at the start of the second half and stopped letting Chelsea get out so easily.

Andy Meighan
378 Posted 05/09/2017 at 17:46:39
Steve (#375),

Bit of memory lapse there. I liked Hibbo myself but he had a nightmare in the FA Cup Final against Chelsea and, if I remember rightly, Malouda give him a torrid one. You're right, though, he could defend... just not that day.

Will Mabon
379 Posted 05/09/2017 at 19:08:10
Dave and Stan (#359 & #360) – two great posts.

And my belief: both craft and pace are needed.

Team spirit, motivation and togetherness don't get the mention they should nowadays. This requires harmony in the club and squad. No top team has ever been so without it, and when it goes, down goes the standard.

Tony Abrahams
380 Posted 05/09/2017 at 19:32:10
I watched a documentary the other day Will, called "I Believe in Miracles" which was about Brian Clough's, Nottingham Forest, winning the league once, two European Cups, and two league cups, in about 3 years. They seemed very similar to the great Everton side during the mid-eighties, because they possessed all the things you have just mentioned.

If you get a chance, it's deffo worth a watch. No rocket science, just loads of talent and a great belief!

Will Mabon
381 Posted 05/09/2017 at 19:38:27
Tony, thanks, I'll dig that one up.
Martin Mason
382 Posted 05/09/2017 at 20:29:18
Will @379

How do you quantify, measure and monitor those values? Do they have any meaning?

Tony Abrahams
383 Posted 05/09/2017 at 20:45:36
You would measure them with your eyes, Martin, of that I'm certain?

The meaning is everything, it's when team-mates won't accept anything less than 100% off each other. Never say die, or never beaten until the end – surely everyone can identify this in some teams they have witnessed over the years?

Stan Schofield
384 Posted 05/09/2017 at 21:00:57
Martin @382: Things like that are like your love for Everton. They're not measurable.

Contrary to the fashion for measuring everything, not much of real importance is measurable.

Will Mabon
385 Posted 06/09/2017 at 04:48:10
Martin, I'm not 100% sure you're serious there – maybe a dig at those that think stats are everything?

If you are serious, then if you have to ask...

Paul A Smith
386 Posted 06/09/2017 at 11:42:40
Read what Mourinho says today about Lukaku's price. hen tell me "everything's changed", "We do things the right way" or any other corny statement you think you know about Moshiri.

It was another shithouse move from this clever board of ours.

David Graves
387 Posted 06/09/2017 at 11:59:10
But Paul, plenty on here said that it was good riddance to Lukaku; that he was a flat-track bully and that none of the "bigger clubs" would be interested. The goals will come from other sources and we will be a better team it was said. We shall see.

Best forward we've had in a generation and we sold him at a price significantly below market value. Same old.

Danny Broderick
388 Posted 06/09/2017 at 12:53:38
Who have Man Utd played again? 3 games against fodder who Lukaku always scored against when he was at Everton.

I tell you what: let's judge Lukaku at the end of the season shall we? Let's see how he gets on away at Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea etc.

If he scores 25 goals including strikes against the top teams, and if he perfects the art of trapping a bag of cement, I will hold my hands up and say we didn't sell well.

But I will not be saying that now because he has scored against West Ham, Swansea and Leicester! That's the minimum strikers at Man Utd should be doing!

Steve Ferns
389 Posted 06/09/2017 at 13:00:13
I hear what you're saying, Danny, but imagine inside the bubble he is in, he now has his confidence at an all time high, he believes they will win the league, and he's playing with the best players in the league. I think this where you will see Lukaku reach new heights.

As for his touch, I don't think his touch is bad at all. Watching his highlight reel and you will see plenty of times where he showed a great touch. What it was though, was wildly inconsistent. And maybe the increased confidence will help him become more consistent.

The other issue we all identified is that sometimes he did not work hard enough, or run enough, well I think he's running more than ever at the moment. Of course, on the back of his big move, it was to be expected, but on the crest of the adulation he is now receiving, I expect that to continue.

Tom Bowers
390 Posted 06/09/2017 at 13:21:30
I don't know how people can knock Lukaku. He actually works harder than people give him credit for.

Okay, he lacks that speed that sets some other top strikers apart and certainly doesn't have the skill of Messi but you know what? He still scores lots of goals. End of story.

Paul A Smith
391 Posted 06/09/2017 at 14:12:28
Dave (#387). I couldn't care what most people say mate. Most usually means is trendy. Our fans are scared of seeing a top player.

Arteta could do a 100 great things but most people liked to talk about how he couldn't beat the first man from a corner.

I still can't believe how many told me Pogba wasn't all that when Man Utd signed him. The comment under yours states let's see how he gets on against Liverpool Chelsea etc.

I have said this too often – our fans' memories are terrible and only include what they want to remember. Lukaku scored 3 for West Brom v Man Utd, for West Brom mate.Name the last Everton striker to score a hat trick v Man Utd?

Lukaku scored 2 in his first derby. Lukaku knocked Chelsea out of the cup at Goodison virtually in his own. He's improved in scoring every year since we signed him.

But I tell you what, like everyone else in the last 10 years that has been a star for Everton, lets find some faults and talk him down.

This is one of the reasons I have talked about that little shit across the park who is worth 120 million because he score 7 from 20 yards. And our fans talk him up too. Unreal. Have a look how often they sub that genius. I am sick of saying that too.

No offence to you, mate, but we get what we deserve.

Paul A Smith
392 Posted 06/09/2017 at 14:15:34
Tom (#390) – well said, mate. Come December, everyone will know how good he was.
Stan Schofield
393 Posted 06/09/2017 at 15:09:08
Paul, spot on, but what happened with Lukaku is just symptomatic of Everton. We didn't need to sell him, despite him wanting to go, because he had two years left on his contract. I'll repeat what I've said many times, that the value to Everton of keeping him over the next two years could well have exceeded the fee received by selling him now.

In fact, it is almost certainly the case that, if we'd hung onto him longer we could have got a much higher fee, perhaps even double.

Selling him when we did doesn't even make good business sense from a purely money perspective, let alone from the perspective of how keeping him would have enhanced our profile, and probably our prospects (given the panic on TW about not finding a replacement).

If we'd kept him, and added the recent signings, that would have been a sign of a genuine 'new era', of a substantial 'project'. A massive 'statement of intent'. Instead, we do the usual, sell him, like Rooney and Fellaini, to our bigger neighbour Man Utd, who – unlike us – seem to have real intent to win trophies.

Alan Smith
394 Posted 06/09/2017 at 15:26:03
No one moaned about Micheal Owen's touch and Fernando Torres's touch. And Lukaku scores more goals for worse sides.

Like Arteta's corners, you can't always get your touch 100% right. At hyper-critical Everton 83%, 84%, 85% isn't good enough.

Also, bullying young players is considered cool arse whilst loving hard-working Nevilles and McCarthys is fashionable. And what about McCarthy's touch?

Evertonians are scared to love Barkley and Lukaku. Slagging Lukaku's touch whilst McCarthy was in he same team getting praise. I'd love to see McCarthy control a pass, mostly telegraphed, with his back to goal and an international 14-stone defender on his back.

Or play like Barkley, a central midfielder who plays No 10, left-wing, right wing. Let's see Schneiderlin or Gana play those positions and see if they were as consistent as Scholes and Gerrard at the same age.

We're so small now; we are scared to believe. Imagine the hype if Lukaku and Barkley had played the identical matches they had for us, in a red shirt. The media would be saying the same things they said about Gerrard and Torres. Evertonians would call fellow Evertonians bitter for not admitting they are world class.

My opinion will be shot down, but at least I've provided stats, evidence and examples to back it up.

Michael Kenrick
396 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:06:47
Evans, Torres, Gerrard... WTF?

Whatever point you're trying to make is lost. Why do some Evertonians fixate on fucking Liverpool? Drives me insane!!!

Dermot Byrne
397 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:11:09
One thing Michael. The charity I work for is doing a fundraising ball at Anfield.

I would welcome suggestions on how to survive the night but still be employed in morning.

Otherwise totally agree.

John Pierce
398 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:34:23
Lukaku should have been sold last Thursday only after his replacement was procured.

Well run clubs do not leave themselves a senior centre forward short in a season that could help define a new path for the team.

It really is that simple.

Tony Abrahams
399 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:39:35
We've all done it Michael, but I totally agree with that lad!

I remember coming out of the Stadium of Light after witnessing the finest away support ever, during my many years on the road with the travelling blue army, because every single person in that away end wanted to play and also beat those red bastards in the semi final at Wembley.

I had a picture in my head, and it was of the old Guinness advert, with "believe" written through the harp. I actually asked my mate who was very friendly with one of our players, to get me ten minutes with him. What for, He asked? And I told him that I wanted him to ask Moyes if I could do the team talk at Wembley.

He was supposed to have mentioned it to the manager, who said that is why he loved Evertonians so much, but he never let me do the team talk and we fucking swallowed it yet again.

Talent will only take you so far, it's having a real desire, and an absolute belief, that sorts the men out from the boys (Ross Barkley). Sometimes it doesn't matter how you win, as long as you just win.

Don't mention Liverpool, I have to finish with them though. Gerard says to Clattenberg, that Hibbert was the last man there Mark, and during the same game Kuyt nearly put his foot through Neville's chest, and he got up and shook his hand?

The more they hate you, the better you are doing, although I do think Darren has got half a point regarding our manager just now!

Dermot Byrne
400 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:41:53
Agree with you John. They left buying a new centre-forward too late knowing the problems late in window.

But "procured"?

Reminds me of asking a copper where someone went.

"He headed in a northerly direction..." !

David Graves
401 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:45:31
Stan, I concur 100%.

Danny

I don't need to wait until the end of the season. He will score 25 goals this season and he will score against the top teams.

You don't think he can trap a bag of cement and that we didn't undersell? He obviously can and we certainly did and that's a disgrace. You happy with the fee we got and Rooney and Sandro to replace him?

Dermot Byrne
402 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:48:21
What is going on? The beautiful plain language of TW is being highjacked!
I concur to procure if you agree we buy him!
David Barks
404 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:50:30
It is hilarious to see Mourinho taking the piss, saying how he can't believe they got Lukaku for only £90 million. That if we would have just held on to him until later in the window, they would have had to pay £150 million. It really is unreal.

Add the Barkley fiasco and the failure to even sell Niasse because of a stupid agent payment, we once again were a joke in the transfer window. Meanwhile, the RS held two fingers to Barcelona and kept their star, while adding to their squad with Salah and Oxlade-Chamberlain.

John G Davies
406 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:53:13
David,

That is more Jose saying "look how clever I am" than anything else. If we'd asked for £150 mil they would have run a mile.

David Graves
407 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:55:04
John, I get that it's more self-congratulating from Jose but we didn't even start a bidding war did we?
Brent Stephens
408 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:57:48
Yeh, Mourinho knows he paid over the odds for Lukaku. It's just post-decisional reduction of cognitive dissonance – sorry Dermot, I meant he's trying to convince himself as well as us he got screwed.
David Barks
409 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:58:50
Totally disagree, John. It was him talking about how crazy it was that we sold so quickly, and that it's been a long established fact that the price goes up as the deadline hits, supply and demand + lack of time. He's simply talking about the fact that, given the way the market played out, had we held for longer that the price would have gone up for Lukaku. We sold low instead of selling high. We got played.

And the fact that there was no striker lined up and the plan was quite clearly to sell Barkley and Niasse, shows we would have had a net spend of zero this summer. Our great saviour would have financed all new additions with player sales. But now he's £45 million in the hole after Barkley rejected the move and Niasse's agent wasn't paid. Going to be very interesting to see how that impacts us going forward.

John G Davies
410 Posted 06/09/2017 at 16:59:53
We didn't, David.

I think Rom had his heart set on Man Utd. The better move for him. Chelsea was the better move for us. But, as we have seen with Ross, if they don't want to sign for a club, they don't.

John G Davies
411 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:01:59
Your prerogative, David B.
David Barks
412 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:02:33
John,

Doesn't matter. He was under contract for two years. So you take a position that they pay the amount asked for or they stay. See Coutinho, Van Dijk and others.

Brent,

How are you trying to spin that as Mourinho knowing he paid too much for Lukaku?

David Graves
413 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:02:48
In which case, John, I refer you to Stan's post above!

Two years left on his contract etc.

John G Davies
414 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:05:56
Very risky business, letting a player get down to the last 18 months of his contract... As we have seen with Ross.

Do either of the Davids think we would have got more than £90 mil with 18 months left on Rom's contract?

Brent Stephens
415 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:07:37
David, pure guess on my part, knowing what we do about Mourinho. Equal probability your right.
John G Davies
416 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:09:46
Van Dijk has six years left on his contract, by the way. Coutinho has five years.
David Barks
417 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:16:54
Brent,

No mate, it doesn't work that way. Mourinho is out there talking about the fact that they would have had to pay more for Lukaku as the window went on. It's not equal probability that you're right when you say "Mourinho knows he paid over the odds for Lukaku. " Sorry, but no.

Stan Schofield
418 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:19:06
John, my comments @393 take account of Lukaku going on a free in 2019. What I'm saying is that the value to Everton of keeping him over the next two years could well have been greater than the loss of transfer fee, in this case £75M or more. But that is a 'risk calculation' that would be done by a club with real intent. I'm not convinced we have real intent, just a lot of big talking.
James Hughes
419 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:19:27
Michael ~396, whilst it may drive you mad, the fact remains we have to benchmark ourselves against somebody. Our neighbours from Mordor are as relevant as anyone else.

Who do you suggest as an alternative, maybe Stoke?

Peter Warren
420 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:22:14
Lukaku for £75-£90m – good business for us. Yes, I would rather have Pickford, Sigurdsson, Rooney and Sandro, who probably cost the same in replacements.

Despite Lukaku starting like a house on fire, scoring loads of goals for us, I still don't think he's a massive loss. I actually think one of his best attributes was his injury record as opposed to his goal scoring record. On the other hand I consider Rashford immense.

Stan Schofield
421 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:25:30
David, true, but even more than that, it appears bad business to have sold Lukaku in this window, given the rapid inflation at the moment on the price of players, especially players of his stature.

It makes me very sceptical of the business acumen of the Everton board, regardless of the chance that some people will say that Moshiri must know what he's doing, billionaire and all that, blah, blah, blah.

Brent Stephens
422 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:31:28
David (#417). Okay, if you want. Not important.
David Graves
423 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:31:39
Peter,

You would rather have Pickford, Sigurdsson, Rooney and Sandro than Lukaku?

In this brave new world of Everton having (allegedly) more financial clout ,why not have them and Lukaku? Imagine!!

Or are we just still selling to buy?

Brent Stephens
425 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:35:00
Davis, PS, what I was really acknowledging was my opinion is no more valid than yours. Look again at the way it's worded.
David Barks
427 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:38:23
Brent,

Mourinho's words. 'I think Lukaku on August 31 would have been £150 million. Matic would have been £60m or £70m. Neymar changed everything.'

So you interpret that as Mourinho feeling like they overpaid and trying to save face in public? Really?

Brent Stephens
428 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:42:37
David, I was hazarding a guess, no more. Not looking for an argument. I acknowledged your opinion and you might be more correct than me. It's not important. Really. Let it ride.
David Barks
429 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:51:28
Brent,

Let me correct myself, because I'm not looking for an argument either. What I'm referring to is what I was starting off with, that, in the grand scheme of this window, we've been left looking very bad and even have another manager saying out-loud that, had we just not sold without putting up any fight, he would have had to pay more for that player.

Add to that the ridiculous Barkley situation, Niasse situation, failing to sign another left-sided defender or a striker when the manager went public on multiple occasions saying those are the two positions we needed.

Instead, we end up signing a teenage winger from the Europa League side we just played. How is that for scouting? Walsh really had to work hard to uncover the player we faced twice in a matter of weeks. We're left in this season where we were told we needed more productivity up front and a deeper squad to contend with the added fixtures, with no senior striker and apparently a single left-back for every match, as well as without a left-sided central defender.

It's just sickening to watch again and again. We had one of the best goal scorers in England and we sold him immediately without putting up any fight, and never signed a replacement. That's insane. And now I'm worried that this new owner is going to have to find that £45 million they were expecting from the Barkley and Niasse sales.

David Graves
430 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:51:30
David B, I definitely think we undersold Lukaku but Mourinho saying what he has does put an even more positive spin on their signings of Lukaku and Matic doesn't it.

He's probably right so its win-win for Man Utd. Two top players bought before the transfer market was inflated even more so.

Brent Stephens
431 Posted 06/09/2017 at 17:54:10
David, I understand what you're saying and they're very reasonable points.
Dermot Byrne
432 Posted 06/09/2017 at 18:04:42
Linguistically scarred Brent (and probably a hypocrite after that shite!)

Agree, David, but can they afford to play the game and to the wire as there is less risk because there is a queue who would play for them all over the world? Maybe.

Tony Abrahams
433 Posted 06/09/2017 at 18:10:19
It's always a gamble, David, knowing when to sell a prized asset, but he didn't say if Man Utd would have paid the figures that he mentioned though. It was actually only two years ago that he was fucking fuming with Everton because they wanted too much money for Stones.

I think selling Lukaku was always part of the plan, as was totally ripping up the squad that Koeman inherited, and if Barkley and Niasse leaving would have meant we would have brought in a striker, then this might possibly still be done in January?

Who knows what's going on because we didn't seem to have any strikers lined up so alls we can do is continue to speculate?

Does it also mean Everton, got value for money because most of their business was done early, or have the board looked at our signings and now think that they want to see what the manager does with these players before they give him anymore money to spend?

I'm glad we haven't just thrown loads of money at it though, and have continued to balance the books, especially with more news on Bradley-Moore around the corner, and a squad consisting mostly of players that have been signed by this present regime.

It's now up to Koeman now to show us if he's good enough to take us forward now that the window is closed?

Darren Hind
434 Posted 06/09/2017 at 19:21:53
Tony A,

I'd have loved to hear that Wembley team talk you wanted to give. I bet it would have had a much greater effect than the one TGT gave!

John G Davies
435 Posted 06/09/2017 at 19:25:11
Tony,

It's a massive play – who blinks first when selling a player, especially a player who does not want to be at the club.

It has been suggested above we should have hung on until the last day to get a better price. It has been suggested that we could afford the gamble as he had two years left on his contract.

I asked the question did anyone think we would get more than £90 million if we sold him in January 2018 or July 2018 if Man Utd refused to pay £150 million on the last day of this transfer window.

Paul A Smith
436 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:22:13
David Barks, you're dead right, mate, and there was more reason to fight it – especially if you are claiming you want to compete with the top teams.

Stan, a couple of us said the same a few times about his worth in keeping him could have meant more to us. Those asking what would we have done if Man Utd refused to pay £150M on deadline day. You'd take probably less but it would have been above £90 million by then surely.

Man Utd were not going to start the season like us and not replace their top scorer. We had 2 teams steaming for him and never played them off against each other.

Mourinho doesn't know for a fact it would be £150 million – he's simply talking about how easy it was.

John G Davies
437 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:25:41
Paul,

You'd take probably less.... What, around £90 mil?

Stan Schofield
438 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:26:27
John, if we'd kept him until the end of his contract, he could have gone on a free, thereby us losing the transfer fee from selling him now, in this case £75M or more. But, the value of keeping him until July 2019 could well have exceeded that loss.

Given that we did sell him, it seems that we could have got considerably more than the circa £75M Man Utd paid, just by waiting, given the current price inflation.

In the first case, it looks classic Everton. In the second case, it simply looks bad business.

Peter Warren
439 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:32:42
Everybody obsessing about money. The guy wanted out, big time Charlie who was the laziest player in league but did score goals for us. We got a nice fee and reinvested - seems good football sense to me. We've got a billionaire owner in a mega rich league; let's just worry about us getting better players and the manager improving us. Lukaku? – nah, he ain't all that.
John G Davies
440 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:36:10
Neymar signed for PSG in the first week in August. What players were bought by Premier League clubs for an inflated fee influenced by the Neymar transfer fee?
Stan Schofield
441 Posted 06/09/2017 at 20:45:30
Peter, the primary thing I'm saying is the opposite of being obsessed about money. I'm saying that, if we were really entering the big time, we'd have kept Lukaku, and signed the players we signed. Both. What happened looks typical Everton of the last 30 years – a 'selling club' that lets the best players in their prime leave. To go to bigger clubs, like we used to be.

Now, it might turn out that the new signings minus Lukaku will result in more fluent attacking football with slick passing movements, and goals spread more through the team, and better away results. I'm hopeful of that, given the nature of the new signings. But, given the experience of Koeman's tactics, it's more hope than 'reasonable anticipation'.

Peter Warren
442 Posted 06/09/2017 at 21:18:40
Hi Stan, I understand your point. Mine is Lukaku had 2 years left and was good but not somebody I was particularly bothered letting go. I don't compare him being that good, particularly in our team, that perhaps we should have kept him, ie, Bale at Spurs was clearly (Suarez for that matter at Liverpool).

We're Everton and yes, he is a good player, perhaps very good... but I'm made up he's gone; we're far far bigger than him – than to need to keep him for 2 years for what? So he could bang in 20 goals but go missing in any big games we have? Not for me!

Peter Warren
443 Posted 06/09/2017 at 21:27:59
Stan, your second paragraph is spot on. We were always going to be over-reliant on Lukaku with Lukaku playing for us and he ain't that good.

I know plenty disagree, including Kendall (RIP) and point to 87 but I thought it was tragic Lineker went and set us back big time. Kendall's genius won us league in 87. We needed to get rid of Lukaku, people loving him cos we're starved of success.

I'm with you on Koeman in terms of I haven't made my mind up yet and it would be a confident blue to be adamant he's the man to take us to a better playing style / team.

Alan Smith
444 Posted 06/09/2017 at 21:33:10
Surely you get rid in the knowledge you have a better player lined up or because you can spread the goals.

We might have won the League in 88, 89 and 90 if Lineker stayed, who knows?

Plus, for every Lineker example, there will be two Ronaldo, Henry, and Van Nistelroy examples.

John Pierce
445 Posted 06/09/2017 at 21:39:02
It's less about Lukaku staying and more the point that the club were culpable in not securing a replacement before he was sold... and then, knowing a replacement was unlikely, still selling your main source of goals.

Lukaku had 2 years left; not a problem contractually. Even being perverse about it, if the club had their time again, selling him on deadline day would at the very minimum lose you nothing and in all likelihood get you more money.

The club have been had over, strategically moribund and are now looking for light in a dark place to, 'cos someone's pulled their 'kecks down.

Paul A Smith
446 Posted 06/09/2017 at 21:52:04
John, you missed the bit where I said it would be probably more than £90M by then if like I explained we let Chelsea/Man Utd fight a bit.

In other points, I know its never nice to mention those across the park but if it's relevant to the point and truthful, then I thought that was fine?

In the points I have seen, it's been relevant, and the point about the ladyboy they had upfront was relevant to our fans finding flaws in our players, but the whole country finding none in former heroes who were nowhere near as good a striker.

Alan Smith
447 Posted 06/09/2017 at 22:29:30
This thread is great. People trying desperately to cling on to false narratives in the face of sound reasoning, statistical evidence and examples. Yet they offer nothing but ridiculous hyperbole like: "couldn't trap a bag of cement"

My point is lost because I mentioned Liverpool?

Mourinhio is a liar?

And Conte obviously knows nothing about football.

Tony (#433),

Nothing you say makes any logical sense. Especially the stadium bit. Which will having nothing to do with transfers. It will service it's own debt or it won't get built.

It's not about whether you like players or whether they want to leave. Every single player at Everton would probably rather be at Barcelona. For me it's about value to the team.

Moshiri's plan is to supposedly get us into the Champions League. His plan is far more complicated than the obvious easy way he could have done it:

If in the first window he could have bought Koulibaly, Draxler, Stekelenburg and Gana. Then tied Lukaku an Barkley down on big deals. Not bother signing Bolasie, Williams, Schneiderlin and Lookman. I think we would have finished much higher.

Then this summer, all he needed to do was get Rooney, Sigurdsson, Pickford, Sandro and Krychowaik on loan. Would Barkley and Lukaku have wanted to leave then? If so, just replace Lukaku with another £75m striker.

But Moshiri and his fans believe it's cheaper and easier to finish top 4 by selling every quality player you have and giving Walsh, who in his whole career got lucky once and found two players, money to buy a load of kids and top 6 rejects.

The billionaire Kenwright He even phones Sky. McCarthy is family and Barkley is surplus? Top 4, here we come.

I'd have loved our young fans to see Barkley, Davies, Rooney and Baines alongside Lukaku and two other top players. That would have been worth more than £150m for Lukaku and £60m for Ross. Priceless!

And all you would-be sellers... How much is your cut? You get none of it. It goes into an eccentric billionaire's pocket to buy more shares in Uber, and the latest Bill Kenwright production.

It will be an age before we have three or four potentially world class kids, two great attacking full backs and the truly world class England captain returning. All this as a billionaire takes over with a stadium on the horizon. But somehow selling to Man Utd and buying average players is acceptable. Chance gone.

I'm 37, if I see 10 derby wins and one fa cup I'll be very lucky!

Stan Schofield
448 Posted 07/09/2017 at 10:26:35
Peter@443:

In itself, I suppose arguing about Lukaku is pointless, because the deed is done. But, whether you love him or loathe him, the point is really about Everton rather than Lukaku, and I think the point of discussing it is in terms of what we as supporters might reasonably expect of our club at this time.

For me, and I'm sure many others, given that we are supposedly in a 'new era' with a 'project' of supposed intent to win things, I am disappointed by what has happened. But not surprised, because I've got used to checking my expectations.

The new signings are good and encouraging, but don't really set the pulse racing. But Koeman might already have had a master plan, not involving Lukaku, that sets us on a road of great attacking football with fluid passing movements, aided by his pedigree of great Dutch football, and making us look a bit like Barca or Man City, whilst spreading the goals.

Trouble is, this scenario is pure hope, without any real signs that it, or something like it that's really good, will come to pass. For it to happen, the team with these new signings would need to gel big time, with the whole team being much greater than the sum of the individuals. It could happen, but there's little or no sign to give confidence that it will, and it's surely the level of confidence that drives our expectations over and above our hopes.

In case anyone says this is doom mongering, it's not, it's just simple handling of expectations. Realistic expectations rather than mere hopes. And what I am saying (and others too), is that if we had kept Lukaku (despite his protestations of wanting to leave), whilst at the same time getting these new signings, our expectations might have been more exciting. But as it is, they're not much different from the usual expectations we've had.

Paul A Smith
449 Posted 07/09/2017 at 11:13:51
Stan, brilliant post. You can't really be proved wrong, so to call it doom mongering is hardly a point. Love the way you said its about Everton not Lukaku.

How many times does a person on these threads twist a point to make people sound hysterical? I often wonder is it intentional ignorance or do people really think your the Evertonian that wants to see the club in a negative light.

Like the comment last night about 'what would we have done if United didn't want to pay the £150 million'. That was the last line of Mourinho's comment but the first and main point was ignored because it suited the anti Lukaku crowd, or the ones who think we do no wrong and the fee was great.

The Lineker sale made us better must be the most abused statement since Lukaku was linked with anyone. We were a great side then anyway and not many matched the great business we done.

John G Davies
450 Posted 07/09/2017 at 11:49:59
Man Utd would not have paid £150 million for Lukaku. Full stop.

A few banging on about the Neymar transfer forced the market up. We should have taken advantage of the inflated market.

Name one player transferred to an English Prem club after August 3rd whose fee was "inflated" by the Neymar fee.

Paul A Smith
451 Posted 07/09/2017 at 12:02:00
You have asked that before, John. Nobody probably knows the answer but if that justifies for you we couldn't possibly get £150M for Lukaku, that's very narrow.

You keep using the £150M to suggest we still got the best deal. That day we got the best deal. All I have seen from fans here is saying either it wasnt enough, we should have fought clubs off to increase the price or simply don't sell.

Not once I have seen it had to be £150M. So lets drop it then and say okay we couldn't possibly get £150M, we're only Everton and Lukaku is only a great striker.

Let's say could we have pushed it and got the £100M million the club quoted for 2 months? No, because we took the deal of the day and never stood up to Man Utd. Like we never when Rooney went there.

Paul A Smith
452 Posted 07/09/2017 at 12:08:14
Just dawned on me, at the start of the summer I honestly never thought Neymar would go for £200 million. I certainly never seen Barça bidding over £100 million for half decent players either.

Just looking back a bit sorry. I don't know how much we could have got with a bit of stance in us.

John G Davies
453 Posted 07/09/2017 at 12:09:04
You have asked that before John. Nobody probably the answer but if that justifies for you we couldn't possibly get £150M for Lukaku that's very narrow.

Do you think we could have got £150M Paul?

,
Zahir Jaffer
454 Posted 07/09/2017 at 12:44:14
John G: I did say we could get £120M for him and people thought I was mad. £150M a bit OTT. Just a little bit.

Got £90M for him and we got him fairly early. £120M would be useless as a log on Deadline Day.

Zahir Jaffer
455 Posted 07/09/2017 at 12:48:20
Our net spend is around £30M this summer. If Barkley went, through, we would have cracked sub zero again.
Alan Smith
456 Posted 07/09/2017 at 13:13:14
Man Utd according to forest are valued at £2,887M with annual revenue of £513m. What are we worth £200M at a push, £160M in revenue?

So Man Utd are 15 times the size of us and have 3 times the revenue but only paid double for a world class striker than what we paid for a decent international attacking midfielder. And he's four years younger.

Stan Schofield
457 Posted 07/09/2017 at 14:18:31
John @450: You say "full stop", but you don't actually know, just as I don't. It's all 'levels of confidence', and I'm not confident that we would have got £150M. But I am very confident we would have got over £100M, and fairly confident it could have been around £120M.
Stan Schofield
458 Posted 07/09/2017 at 14:26:26
By the way, I had those levels of confidence in what Lukaku could go for well before he was sold. The recent comments from Mourinho serve to confirm, for me, those levels of confidence.
John G Davies
459 Posted 07/09/2017 at 16:07:19
So you agree, Stan.

£150 mil wasn't realistic.

Dave Wilson
460 Posted 07/09/2017 at 16:16:05
Not sure why you think Neymar has anything to do with the Lukaku fee, John. That was a complete one-off and it's a bit daft to try to guess how much we'd have got for Lukaku if we'd have played hardball with Man Utd

We didn't, so we will never know. I guess there'll always be a nagging doubt about whether we got the best deal.

John G Davies
461 Posted 07/09/2017 at 17:26:58
Dave 460,

Is that to me?

Stan Schofield
462 Posted 07/09/2017 at 21:39:46
John@459: I get the strong impression that you're very keen for someone to agree with your view that £150M wasn't realistic. But I'm afraid I can't help you there. I'm not confident that we would have got £150M, but I do believe it a realistic possibility.
Paul A Smith
463 Posted 08/09/2017 at 09:08:51
Stan, I agree. Trying to find some personal victory in asking a question that wasn't really the point made. It really doesn't matter what Mourinho said in figures.

Some of us are only interested in why we made it easy and let Man Utd set the price basically.

Keep going on about £150M when it's already been pointed out we might have done better if we'd done the right thing and fought for a better fee.

Stan Schofield
464 Posted 08/09/2017 at 09:47:41
Paul, yes, we've now got Koeman accepting Niasse back into the fold, a year after telling everyone that, if Niasse wanted to play football, it would have to be somewhere other than Everton. Says everything about the desperation about not having sufficient striker power, about not getting a replacement for Lukaku, and about how important Lukaku was to Koeman.

It would be nice to see Everton say simply, this player is not for sale, full stop, we're Everton, and he's going nowhere. Fat chance of that ever happening.

Brian Williams
465 Posted 08/09/2017 at 15:08:36
I think Barkley's come to a crossroads in his life or had an epiphany of some sort maybe. He's having his "full sleeve" totally removed which is a major change in direction, almost as if it's a cleansing and a new beginning?

Perhaps Damian Wilde wouldn't mind giving us the benefit of his expert opinion?

Dermot Byrne
466 Posted 08/09/2017 at 15:30:52
"... an epiphany of some sort maybe. He's having his "full sleeve" totally removed.."

To a 56-year-old, this is a better social commentary than the film Saturday Night, Sunday Morning.

Brian Williams
467 Posted 08/09/2017 at 15:38:30
Haven't seen that one Dermot, what's the gist of it?
Dermot Byrne
468 Posted 08/09/2017 at 16:33:10
Link

Today it is comment on removal of a tattoo!

Great film though.

Brian Williams
469 Posted 08/09/2017 at 17:54:38
Not sure if yer taking the piss or not lol... but it just feels, to me, like Ross wants to make a complete new start. The tattoo removal is a big deal as it's not just the one it's what they refer to as a "full sleeve,"

Getting a full sleeve in the first place is a big decision and a big undertaking 'coz it hurts like fuck, but to have one and then have the lot removed is a major thing. More pain and suffering!!

Maybe I'm trying to be an amateur psychologist but it does appear the lad's making some big changes, not least of all kissing goodbye to EFC!

Dermot Byrne
470 Posted 08/09/2017 at 18:00:46
Gently taking the piss out of 2017, I guess, Brian. If a bloody tattoo going on or coming off is that important then something is missing.
Brian Williams
472 Posted 08/09/2017 at 18:22:15
Haha! I see, and me, though you were gentle!!

I reckon he's moving and wants to be "incognito" so no distinguishing marks. ;-)

Stan Schofield
473 Posted 08/09/2017 at 20:07:56
Brian, I also had similar thoughts, although I wondered if he was thinking of packing in football, full stop. I suppose it's feasible, he doesn't need more money, and he might just be pissed off or mentally jaded, and being smacked in the gob wouldn't help.

Sometimes a person can just say, sod this for a lark, it's not enjoyable anymore, and I can't be arsed with all this shit (so long as they can afford to do so!).

Brian Williams
474 Posted 08/09/2017 at 20:45:19
I certainly think he's not a happy lad, Stan.
Jamie Evans
475 Posted 10/09/2017 at 19:21:32
Fredo. 💔

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