Everton ban supporter for involvement in Lyon fracas

Friday 20 October 2017  123 Comments  [Jump to last]
Everton have issued a statement following the incident in the second half of last night's game against Lyon that saw supporters become involved in a fight between rival players.

The club have issued a ban on attending future matches to one fan and registered a complaint with Merseyside Police about his conduct.

The contest between the Blues and the French club boiled over when captain for the night, Ashley Williams, barged over goalkeeper Anthony Lopes prompting angry reactions from Lyon players.

A number of players from both sides became embroiled in a shoving match that came to blows at one point up against the advertising hoardings by the Gwladys Street stand. Television replays showed some fans getting involved including one who left his seat with a small child in his arms to aim a punch at one of the opposition players.

Everton's statement read as follows:

Club Officials have reviewed the footage of an incident that occurred in the 64th minute of the game against Olympique Lyonnais where supporters towards the front of the lower Gwladys Street End became involved in a confrontation between players.

We have identified one individual whom action will now be taken against. This will include a ban from attending future Everton fixtures and the Club registering a formal complaint with Merseyside Police.

Meanwhile, Uefa have opened disciplinary proceedings over the incident and will likely fine Everton for "aggression by supporters" towards players. Their decision will come down on 16th November.  


Reader Comments (123)

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Phil Greenough
1 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:24:11
Totally correct that the fan has been banned. But if EFC are going to refer the matter to the police, they should also refer Williams for his actions off the field of play.
Tony Cunningham
2 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:26:09
It's the kid I feel sorry for. Did the bloke think, "I know what, I want to be responsible so I won't leave my child unattended whilst I go and punch someone"?
James Lauwervine
3 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:30:52
How about banning Williams too for starting it.
Tony Abrahams
4 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:31:28
I reckon the kid will be made up that he will have no-one to take him the match now!

A crazy moment of madness gets this fella banned for life, whilst Koeman is waiting for millions to go quietly.

David Barks
5 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:37:05
What a pathetic individual. And credit to the Lyon players for seeing the man holding a child and completely holding back.
Paul Kossoff
6 Posted 20/10/2017 at 16:56:31
Hope they ban CH Williams for starting it. He obviously wanted to get sent off.

ps: CH stands for cart horse. 😁

Dean Barton
7 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:00:36
As much as what the guy did was wrong, why do the players get away with it? He gets banned for life for throwing a punch at a player but what happens to the players who were fighting?

If you are a fan you get done for assault but, when you are on the pitch a few yards away, the police aren't involved. Unless your name is Duncan Ferguson, of course.

Derek Knox
8 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:02:22
If we get a ban from Europe, it will be another excuse for Koeman.

Also, I think the whole fracas was initiated by Williams's over-reaction against their goalkeeper. Having said that, no fans should get involved, that's what the Officials are there for.

The whole incident coupled with the poor performance, for the most part, again magnifying the lack of confidence and spirit invoked by Koeman's poor management.

Tony Graham
9 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:04:34
Just goes to show what our great club has been reduced to... frustration leading to violence... because we're so poor on the pitch.
Tony Cunningham
10 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:07:01
We should have to play the next match behind closed doors and without TV cameras... please!
John Davies
11 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:13:01
Tony Graham (#9).

Violence because we were so poor on the pitch? Seriously? What sort of excuse is that?

Nev Renshaw
12 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:13:59
The club should cut their losses and get rid of Williams in the next window. Koeman should be given the heave-ho now.
Mike Hughes
13 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:16:53
Relegation battles aside, this is a new low for EFC.

Anaemic performances on the pitch.
Seemingly clueless and/or passionless manager.
Players' confidence somewhere beneath the Goodison Park pitch.
Good name dragged through the mud (on European level).
No excuses regarding finance as the squad has been expensively assembled.
No end in sight at present.

It's Friday afternoon.
As far as the football is concerned, roll on Monday.
(Though Champions' Day at Ascot and events at Wembley may, hopefully, ease the pain a little.)

Kim Vivian
14 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:25:55
David (#5) – I hope they weren't holding back just because he was holding a child!

I'm afraid this incident, whilst admittedly totally deplorable, is being overcooked. I mean the player involvement, not the so called 'fan' who deserves whatever punishment he gets.

Williams with his push was (unnecessarily) making a point after the penalty area shove by the goalkeeper which then escalated when the Lyon players remonstrated. I think, looking at it at the time, although irked the goalkeeper was going to let it go but just seemed to launch in when they started on Williams. And it went from there. A few seconds of madness.

Sure, there are fines, suspensions or whatever to be handed out but all this talk of 'behind closed doors' and stuff is OTT. We have all seen far worse than that scuffle.

Geoff Williams
15 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:27:40
I feel that Williams should be banned for his part in the disgraceful scenes we witnessed last night.
Tony Cunningham
16 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:29:52
Kim @14 I hope you realise my 'behind closed doors' comment was meant in jest... for our benefit really, to save us having to go through it!
Kim Vivian
17 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:39:41
Tony – yes indeed, I did get that in your case (I have seen/heard the closed door thing elsewhere though) and I was going to suggest a TV ban but you got there first.

But thinking about it, that wouldn't really be a punishment for us would it!

Lawrence Green
18 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:40:08
Williams lost the plot and that can happen to any player, but the thing that I find more upsetting is that he didn't apologise for his behaviour to the club or its fans. As for the daft dad, well he has been punished by the club and hopefully he regrets his actions and the poor example he has set for his son.

As for some of the reaction in the media and elsewhere, I'm afraid they love incidents like this and whilst it was 'shocking' there are many more important things in the world to be outraged about.

It was a shame that the incident happened, it hasn't helped the club's image but we move on to the next fixture and hopefully everybody behaves themselves and shows passion in a more acceptable way than Ashley and the sad Dad.

Oliver Brunel
19 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:40:59
I notice Lyon are getting away with it. As usual, Uefa hates the English teams. When they don't like your team, they get a dodgy ref in, ie, Villarreal and Thursday night and put you out of the competition!
Kim Vivian
20 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:44:18
Yes Oliver, absolutely. Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there two sets of players involved in that fracas?
Rob Halligan
21 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:49:43
Oliver and Kim. At the moment only we have been charged by Uefa over the fan incident, as per the attached statement:

Disciplinary proceedings have been opened following the Uefa Europa League group stage match between Everton FC and Olympique Lyonnais (1-2), played on 19 October in England.

Charges against Everton FC:
- Aggressions by supporters against players - Art. 16 (2) (H) of the Disciplinary Regulations

This case will be dealt with by the UEFA Control, Ethics and Disciplinary Body on 16 November.”

I imagine there will be further charges against both clubs once the referee has submitted his match report to Uefa.

Phil Bellis
22 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:50:22
Watching the antics of Lyon was like a throwback to when we were first exposed to "foreigners" theatrics/deaththrows many years ago... Shameful playacting.

The ref did nothing to curtail it, no time added for it.

Charles Brewer
23 Posted 20/10/2017 at 17:55:21
"Aggressions by supporters against players"

1. Aggression does not have a plural.
2. There was only one act
3. There was only one supporter
(4. He only used one arm)
5. It involved only one player.

Assuming one was arguing this case in English, this Article does not cover what happened.

Kevin Turner
25 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:12:59
Despite the conspiracy theories and nonsense being rolled out here about referees and Uefa hating English teams etc, the football side of this incident will be dealt with by the appropriate Uefa rules and we'll have to take whatever sanctions are coming our way.

As for the so called fan, he's opened a real can of worms for himself. The club has done what was necessary (well done to them for acting so swiftly) and now he will have to face whatever comes his way via the justice system and quite possibly Social Services. Maybe he'll have to answer questions about why an infant was out at the time of night, is he placing the child in harms way, is he fit to look after a child?

That might sound extreme but believe me he has questions to answer – all over a football match played out by millionaires who don't give a toss for the punters.
Liam Reilly
26 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:16:15
Instead of making us play behind closed doors for Atalanta, they'll probably make us fill the stadium.

That'd be a harsher punishment at the moment.

Will Mabon
27 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:21:56
Liam - good one.
Oliver Brunel
30 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:38:29
I notice the club is super quick to jump in and ban the fan. No criticism of the officials, the continuous cheating, diving, theatricals of the French mountebanks. It tells you all you need to know about the way the club views its fan base.

The fan base is now a secondary afterthought due to the TV money. I think fans should boycott the matches until they start listening to us. I'm sick and tired of these cretins.

Bill Watson
31 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:41:56
So the fan is reported to Merseyside Police but the player isn't? What kind of double standard is that?

Williams started the scuffle and, apart from risking reducing us to 10 men when we were finding it difficult enough with eleven, has dragged Everton's name through the mud across Europe.

On the football side, at least the side was set up with a bit of width although Mirallas failed to make the touchline and get a cross in.

Sigurdsson looked half decent in his central position and must start there against Arsenal. as must Davies. If Kenny is fit he must start, too. Holgate is a central defender and will never make a full back.

When will the penny drop, with Koeman, that round pegs don't fit into square holes?

Oliver Brunel
32 Posted 20/10/2017 at 18:51:18
I for one am pleased by the aggression shown on Thursday. We need to be more like this – not lie down like pansies; install a winning battling mentality. We have to.
Bill Watson
33 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:13:34
Oliver (#32),

I couldn't agree more, and Koeman has also said as much today, but that aggression has to be properly channelled!

Martin Mason
35 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:27:14
Bill, you are absolutely correct. If the fan was banned for being involved, then Williams should have been for starting it. This ban is a disgrace that we should fight.
John Keating
36 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:27:21
Player raises his hand – well it'll be something relatively minor I suppose.

Fan raises his hand – life ban.

Player makes racist remarks – 12 game ban?

Fan makes racist remark – life ban.

Seems pretty even doesn't it ??

Martin Mason
37 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:31:50
If Everton management could raise the same passion about the performance of the team that would be great. The ban on this lad is disgraceful.
Colin Glassar
38 Posted 20/10/2017 at 19:45:12
Worst record for an English club in Europa League history. Worst style of football in the Premier League. One of the worst managers ever... and now this?

Act now, Moshiri, or we are in serious, serious trouble. Btw, ban the stupid sod for life and sell Williams ASAP.

Bill Watson
39 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:18:47
The point I was trying to make was that the fan was reported to Merseyside Police but the player wasn't. Why not? If Everton wish to be seen as acting consistently they should refer both or none.

I think it's more about Everton attempting to mitigate any financial sanction by sacrificing the idiot fan.

Maybe Williams could be fined 2 weeks pay (the maximum allowed) for bringing the club into disrepute and this could go to offsetting the fine.

Oliver Brunel
41 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:19:31
I never thought Id see the day when twatting a Frenchman would be an offence of any sort. In days gone by, you would have got a medal. Call me old-fashioned.
John Keating
43 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:24:37
Oliver (#41),

I haven't laughed too much since Martinez joined but I must admit that was good!

Colin Glassar
44 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:26:17
Excellent Oliver. Not PC but still πŸ˜‚
Brian Williams
45 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:26:32
Facts, facts, facts. The supporter who got involved was wrong.

However, having seen his involvement several times in slow motion, he did NOT throw a punch at anyone.

He pushed a Lyon player away twice by "pushing" the players head with an open hand.

Before the baying mob come for me with pitchforks: "No, I do not condone his actions." I do like facts to be reported correctly though.

Bill Watson
47 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:29:21
Hey, you lot. As the man said, patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel lol.
I have some excellent French friends.
Jeff Armstrong
48 Posted 20/10/2017 at 20:36:26
"Old-fashioned", Oliver.... priceless!
John Wilson
49 Posted 20/10/2017 at 21:01:30
If that fan gets charged with assault, so should Williams. In fact, if I were the fan I would use the defence, 'a defence to help another' ie Williams. If it were not for Williams's actions that fan would never have been banned.
Darren Hind
50 Posted 20/10/2017 at 21:06:20
I remember being at Mordor (I think it was the game Mick Lyons lobbed one into his own net from 35 yards). Not sure what kicked it off but suddenly all hell broke loose. This wasn't handbags, it was proper fisties. All the outfield players were involved and it took about 10 minutes to sort it out.

The ref decided he needed two scapegoats to send off. I think our one was Gary Stanley and theirs was Terry McDermot – someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

I remember just stepping back and looking around the ground as the fight was in full flow. It was fucking bedlam. Evertonians and Kopite screaming abuse throwing imaginary punches, shaking their fist... Everyone wanted in.

The Times claimed 50,000 people left Anfield disgusted by the brawl... What a load of bollocks the place was on fire everyone absolutely loved it.

Oliver Brunel
51 Posted 20/10/2017 at 21:18:16
Exactly, Darren – it's the Nietzschean scream to live, to feel. The dullards are regulating the arse off us. That fan should be given a medal.
Andy Crooks
52 Posted 20/10/2017 at 21:48:07
It seems to me that we shouldn't be too self-righteous or judgemental. In fact the whole incident is bizaare. What in God' s name was going on in the minds of those involved?

A friend and colleague, a West Ham supporter, told me that he thought we were "really interesting last night", Well, that is the most positive comment I have heard in a while.

Swap Williams for Duncan Ferguson. I suspect this will become the same type of thing. "At least Ashley cares", etc. I don't care about the ridiculous spat. We were utterly shite and acted like it.

Koeman is poor, the board are inept and the players are shameless. The common denominator is the utter contempt which they appear to have for the ordinary folk who spend their money to follow them. They do not deserve our loyalty.

Ray Jacques
53 Posted 20/10/2017 at 22:10:41
Darren, I think the game ended 2-2.
Brian Wilkinson
54 Posted 20/10/2017 at 22:23:53
It did indeed, Ray, and to add to that, we had a female streaker at the game. Old grey cells setting in lol it was at Anfield around October 1979. Pretty sure Andy King got the second after Kidd had levelled Lyon's own goal. I was in the Annie Road end but slept since.
Mike Connolly
55 Posted 20/10/2017 at 22:26:08
I think the fan got off lightly with a life ban. He could have been made to watch all the matches until the end of the season.
Eric Paul
56 Posted 20/10/2017 at 23:02:55
Just watched the local news, reports as follows:

Mad Everton fan attacks player.
Stabbed boy of 17 dies (very sad)
War hero attacked in own home.

Who the fuck produces the news and decides the order of importance, or is it because the first football club in the city doesn't carry the city's name?

David Currie
57 Posted 20/10/2017 at 23:36:37
The fan should not get a life ban, it was not a punch , his one hand was open. Williams should be in more trouble along with the Lyon player. Good post by Oliver.
Neil Copeland
58 Posted 21/10/2017 at 00:06:36
Martin (#37), are you serious about the lads ban being wrong?

Darren and Ray, yes I remember it as being 2-2 also. The ref could have sent off at least 3 players from each team if I remember it correctly.

Mark Wilson
59 Posted 21/10/2017 at 01:45:03
It was a grim night all round. Club and fans opened up to ridicule, shamed by the actions of a fan with his young child and fully deserving of everything and anything the club and police can throw at him.

Sadly some always seem to find ways to defend morons in these situations but, even by those standards, saying Williams is to blame is beyond any understanding.

Tony Stanley
60 Posted 21/10/2017 at 01:55:17
I watched this game on TV in The States. I couldn't believe it when Williams grabbed at their goalie, he should get the same punishment as the fan.
Mike Gaynes
61 Posted 21/10/2017 at 01:58:36
Lawrence #18, you said it best.

I would add that Williams should never again wear the armband for our club. Yes, losing it like that on the pitch can happen to a player (I've been guilty of it more than once), but wearing the armband in an international match with the world watching carries with it an increased responsibility to represent the club with honor. And apologize when you fail to do so.

Regarding the fan, I'm less sympathetic than some here about the ban. If you're in the first row and it falls into your lap, that's one thing... but leaving your seat to move in and get involved is quite another, and bringing a kid into range is inexcusable. The police complaint is a bit over the top IMO, but this chap's permanent absence from Goodison is well deserved.

Phil Williams
62 Posted 21/10/2017 at 02:30:54

A Life Ban! How can the club do anything other than ban for life a supporter who allegedly hit the Lyon goalkeeper? After all, Uefa have opened disciplinary proceedings against Everton for "aggressions by supporters against players".

There is absolutely no doubt, no refutable evidence that an Everton fan made contact with a Lyon player. It was deliberate and indefensible. But a life ban? Really?

I listened today on Talksport to one of the best telephone phone-in calls I have heard in a long long time. I am sorry that I cannot recall the guys name to credit him.

Why are we fans treated markedly differently from the players, the so-called heroes that we follow? Time and time again, we watch and witness professional footballers carry out unacceptable behaviours that on any street, in any town, would be deemed to be assault or anti-social behaviour.

But do you know what, it's okay because it's football. Passions run high, it's part of the game, these things happen. You heard it from Ashley Williams, and you hear it repeated over and over by those in the game. Players, coaches, managers, TV and radio all excuse footballer anti-social behaviour because "passions run high and it's part of the game".

An Everton supporter has been reported today as having been given a life bamn for involving himself in a fracas/Melee in the Howard Kendall Gwladys Street Stand. He certainly wasn't anywhere other than in the stand. He most certainly was seen moving several yards toward numerous players who were out of control and scuffling on the apron of the pitch/hanging over into the fans stand.

But do you know what, several players ran many many more yards to involve themselves in the same scuffle, so surely moving toward the incident is not a crime. For crying out load, Jordan Pickford ran over 100 yards to join the melee. So, the life ban must be for striking a player. That's delectably fair. But only if it is consistent with other behaviours. Behaviours of players.

I do not see life bans for assault on a football pitch by players; I do not see life bans for assault and aggressive behaviour by coaches and managers. But to be fair to them, it's football, it is a passionate game, tensions run high and as we hear so many times, it's part of the game... and as I said, it's football.

So, I must be missing something here. It is clearly one rule for one and one rule for the others. Please for one second do not think that I condone the fan in question's actions, but the punishment is just not consistent and just not fair. A short term ban- yes. I believe it's 3 games if you are "outside of the law".

I know this post is controversial, but I hope it is balanced enough to be published. We fans deserve to be treated no differently to players and coaches, and I would like to think that ToffeeWeb would allow a sensible debate on such an important issue. One rule for one, and one rule for all.

Michael Kenrick
63 Posted 21/10/2017 at 02:37:12
Thanks for the post, Phil, that you submitted intending it to be a stand-alone article or talking point. Sorry I was a bit late getting to it but you will see from the comments above that a few TWebbers have been debating the issue already on this thread.

My personal opinion: the two things are entirely different.

Football is a contact sport; players get angry; yes, they shouldn't face up or square off, but they do, nevertheless. And the regular punishments (red card, game ban) generally fit the crime.

But there is never, ever any excuse for a fan getting stuck in, and the life ban is totally 100% justified.

David Currie
64 Posted 21/10/2017 at 02:59:26
Phil (#62) good post; a life ban is over the top. A one-year ban would be a sensible amount.
Barry Williams
65 Posted 21/10/2017 at 03:08:26
Just reading through this and nobody, unless I have missed a comment, seems to focus on the fact that the guy had a child, a very young child at that, in his arms. Fans getting involved in something like this is another discussion altogether.

What would have happened if a player felt the contact from this fan and in the melee lashed out and hit the child? In these situations people lash out. No matter how angry, how pumped up you are, if you are with a child, that is your first and only concern. If you think that I am being judgmental, then shame on you.

Another angle, I have lived and worked abroad for the last 16 years or so, all over Asia, plus the Middle East, Eurasia and other places too. I try to promote Everton and I often have to defend my city to other ex-pats.

That last night saddened me, it really did. I am not some namby pamby liberal. Up until a decade ago, in my mid to late 30s, I was fighting pro-fighters on a regular basis, so I am not some pacifistic hippy. But those actions and the inevitable anti-scouse media backlash really did sadden me, though the media backlash was predictable to say the least!

The club seems to be able to do no right at the moment on every level. When you consider EitC it is a real shame indeed.

Barry Williams
66 Posted 21/10/2017 at 03:30:39
Mark Wilson (#59),

You make good points IMO.

Phil Sammon
67 Posted 21/10/2017 at 04:14:01
Why do so many seek to draw comparisons between the players and the fans? If Roger Federer turned up at Lime Street and started drilling tennis balls at commuters, he would rightly be condemned.

When you play sport, you accept certain risks. Getting shoved in the head by a 'fan' is not one of them. A lifetime ban is harsh... but the guy has made a choice to do something that he knew was totally stupid and unacceptable.

Anyone calling for prison needs their head looking at.

Ash Moore
68 Posted 21/10/2017 at 04:45:26
Some people defending the indefensible. The "fan"in question made an arse of himself, the club and the city. He's rightly been banned.
Darren Hind
69 Posted 21/10/2017 at 06:10:06
In a city famed for irreverent humour, this was doing the rounds yesterday:

"The police have joined forces with Everton Football Club and have appealed for anyone involved in Thursday night's shameful incident to step forward, admit their guilt and accept a life-time ban... So far, 40,000 people have come forward."

Will Mabon
70 Posted 21/10/2017 at 06:19:37
Haha!
Dermot O'Brien
71 Posted 21/10/2017 at 10:03:08
The main picture looks like Williams is just having a dance off with two Lyon players, with Holgate and Calvert-Lewin looking on saying "What the fuck?"
Terry McLavey
72 Posted 21/10/2017 at 10:24:25
By the way, I know it's not available in Liverpool, but The Sun newspaper online had a field day about the incident, with so many pictures being shown showing almost every minute. They must have been rubbing their hands with glee when this happened, another go at the scousers result!

Also, the comments by people in general on the article, one particularly sticks with me, two words only: "Horrible Club" – I know we're not, but people tend to like to believe the worst, I personally don't think this has done the club any favours.

Dave Abrahams
73 Posted 21/10/2017 at 10:29:34
Violence? You would see more violence in a nursery school playground. The fan should have acted better, but in the heat of the moment hit (?) the goalie with the flat of his hand; the goalie has since said it was nothing.

Banned for life for a heat of the moment incident where next to nothing happened... ridiculous.

Everton FC have a lot more important issues to sort out at the moment, acting a lot slower over these issues than an incident sensationalised by the national press.

Pete Clarke
74 Posted 21/10/2017 at 10:41:07
The very day we beat Stoke City at the Victoria Ground in the FA Cup with Howard's Army, I remember a Stoke fan, baby in arms and all, trying to break through the police escort and have a go at us. We didn't know whether to laugh or cry it was that bizarre. He was frothing at the mouth and having a go at the coppers and all while following the escort.

Never got arrested from what I saw but Neanderthal to say the least. True to say though that there's not much going for us right now so somebody at the club needs to start changing things.

Steve Carse
75 Posted 21/10/2017 at 11:05:55
A life ban? It's supposed to be a punishment FFS.
Jason Wilkinson
76 Posted 21/10/2017 at 11:18:41
Wait until the return game in Lyon before making any judgement on fan behaviour. If the Lyon fans are well behaved then fair play to them. Somehow, I don't think that will be the case.

And ffs, if we're going to hit anyone, hit Koeman and Schneiderlin first. A dig in the chops might wake the pair up.

Lookman played well... Surprise, surprise.

Neil Copeland
77 Posted 21/10/2017 at 12:57:59
Ash (#78), agree 100%. Lots of posts recently criticising the Everton hierarchy; on this occasion, they have got it right. Perhaps people would prefer EFC to have given an all expenses trip to the away game in Lyon (although may be more of a punishment!).

What type of example was the so-called fan showing to the youngster? Would we all like to see a return to the violent times of the 70s and 80s? No, I thought not. The club had no option and has acted very professionally in dealing with this.

John Wilson
78 Posted 21/10/2017 at 13:14:43
The reason why there is a hierarchy of fans at the bottom and players at the top is because the fans are the chaff and the players are the wheat. I may have lost the attention of some but hopefully will provoke others to think about the rest of this statement.

Some of the comments here are just so middle class and out of touch. Mark at 69 says banning is more than fair. As another said, banning the fan is a positive as he will not have to endure the slavery of going to watch an Everton match with terribly mediocre performances from players and our current manager on his current form being likened to a certain Frank Spencer ('Gizza job, Yozza Hughes') of football managers than he is the self-acclaimed 'master-tactitioner,' which he imprudently stated on his Twitter feed.

Imagine if you were that fan who was clearly fuelled and influenced by the excitement of the players, he may argue, which caused him to perceive that there was a real threat to Williams whereby, he (in his own mind) came to his (Williams) aid albeit more akin to shadow boxing than it was to an actual and existent threat to any players, notwithstanding if there was intent; he could easily have jumped on to the pitch to display his so-called thuggery-esque behaviour.

As to the local and national media, it's called subliminal, ie, planting an idea in the audience's mind so that convention (majority of people) agree that morally, he (the fan) should be punished. As for Everton's treatment of the fan in isolation to the scuffle which broke out between a short-fused but not terribly bright Williams (built more like a rugby player, or bouncer), what is the loss of one paying fan to the many thousands of faithful fans whose payments are more tremendous to the club.

As for Everton reporting the matter to police, this is clearly Everton's social policy; on the one hand, isolate the problem by apportioning blame on the fan's door in comparison to in-house treatment to Everton's human capital (players). Everton's public image: with such compartmentalisation, of the separation of its treatment to fans and its valuable players, it does not want to encourage scuffles (in this more softer age when compared to the 1980s where truncheon happy police were only too happy to give citizens a rather good pasting).

Unfortunately, some people are more valuable than others – even if this caused the fan to get a criminal record or criminal disposal (caution), in any event, it means the fan's life is ruined at his young age. The fan and the child with him has likely lost the opportunity of going to his favourite football team, like most of the faithful lot who persevere with Everton, season after season. Is it a form of slavery therefore?

Middle class criminals simply get better treatment in this country's criminal justice system, because they have more to offer the economy, whereas lower / working class criminals simply don't – whereby said middle class get softer punishment including community work and the other said classes at the bottom receive stiffer punishment... as their legal-aid lawyers are not up to the job of the well-paid barristers.

Okay. that was deep – but it required deep.

Neil Copeland
79 Posted 21/10/2017 at 13:34:54
John, I am very sure that the club had not checked the fan's class status before issuing the ban...

He has disgraced himself and the club which is bad enough at a national level but to do it at a European game really is not good. Class status does not even enter into the argument, IMO.

Oliver Brunel
80 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:03:53
John Wilson (#77) – at last someone who can see through the media obfuscation.

Everton FC are now a parody puppet of Sky TV, joining the bandwagon of middle class false outrage at 'those Liverpudlians'. It was the same years ago, made worse by Thatcher in the 80s for political means.

The Liverpool Echo constantly tries to humiliate working class people involved in petty crime, let's not indulge these twats. Let's not forget the real criminals who are feeding at the trough of government grants, and EU funding – swindling the taxpayer of billions.

Let's not forget Kenwright who has cheated the club out of millions and his chums likewise;its called asset stripping. Loaning money to your own business from dodgy banks in the BVI and bankrupting the club – is that really legal?

Lets say no to banning fans (I notice the Hajduk fans were punching stewards – what happened to them? Nothing; what will happen to the Lyon divers? Nothing).

Stop listening to Sky news, The Guardian and the BBC. Believe me – they have an agenda...

Phil Sammon
81 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:13:26
John Wilson (#77),

I think if anything you've shown yourself to be a very bitter, blinkered individual with that comment. The fact that you even raised the issue of 'class', in an incident where you know nothing of either party, suggests you have some major prejudice pervading your existence.

Steve Ferns
82 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:17:52
John (#77).

As a legal aid lawyer, who also is also paid vast amounts by middle class clients who are not eligible for Legal Aid, you have yet again shown yourself to have absolutely no idea of the state of the legal system. I find your comments to be offensive.

Derek Thomas
83 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:18:04
Oliver @79; Some fair points in there.
Neil Copeland
84 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:18:22
Oliver, why not introduce collapsible barriers to encourage spectator encroachment? We could also have batons distributed at the turnstiles and reward offenders with free season tickets.

There is no place in football or any other sport for violence or aggression from its supporters. Of course the ban is appropriate.

Phil Sammon
85 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:20:42
Oliver 79

Yob banned for shoving opposing player in the face.

Everton fan blames Thatcher.

Get a grip will you. Exactly the sort of crap that gives Scousers a bad name.

Oliver Brunel
86 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:32:56
I wasnt't condoning violence (although 'violence' is not limited to physical attacks). So your arguments are non sequiturs. I was trying to make people realise that in the wider analysis it was a nothing incident hyped to denigrate a certain section of Liverpool people. Next.
Len Hawkins
89 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:37:27
All I can say is the "fan" has serious issues if you'll run towards trouble with a toddler in your arms. What the hell would he get involved in if he were with other like-minded half-wits.

I go out with my son but no way would I run towards trouble with him in my arms... he's 38, 6-ft tall and about 15 stone.

Len Hawkins
90 Posted 21/10/2017 at 14:39:45
How the hell did that happen?
John Wilson
91 Posted 21/10/2017 at 15:19:46
Olivier, I think you're intellectually on the ball, at least more than than those beneficiaries of the capitalist system. A legal aid finding a broad statement offensive. No wonder legal aid lawyers sit at the bottom of the legal hierarchy.

I agree Oliver, there is no need for the non sequiturs; if anything, it shows they would rather attack the person (ad hominem) who dares to have a controversial view rather than critique the idea in itself. Of course, class plays a part, do you even know the history of this country?

Will Mabon
92 Posted 21/10/2017 at 16:57:56
Putting aside class, through most newspapers, TV channels and commentators, and even contemporaneous political parties of differing colours, there has been throughout my adult life, an undeniable bias against Liverpool and its people – manifest as an obviously different "Approach" to matters across the board, big and small.

No scouse attitude, no northern bitterness; fact.

Maybe this has its effect on people's viewpoints now and then.

John Wilson
93 Posted 21/10/2017 at 17:11:28
Will Mabon, at one time, people from Liverpool were called 'vermin' by the upper classes. Poisonous ideas don't change... they're just veiled.
Will Mabon
94 Posted 21/10/2017 at 17:28:07
I know, John. I set aside class as a means to show that with this present situation, reaction definer Number One is not the class of the fan, but Liverpool as the site of the event. People of all classes (and I dislike the whole concept of class) within Liverpool are also tarred the same in their way.

You're right in that it's same old same old. Today however, it's not so much upper classes, but whether part of the digital plutocracy or not... or whether a threat to it.

Oliver Brunel
95 Posted 21/10/2017 at 17:38:13
Will (#94), that is interesting 'digital plutocracy'. I'd never thought of that but you deffo have a point.
John Keating
96 Posted 21/10/2017 at 20:56:20
Do you think the fan and the Club would escape banning and fine if he says he was part of the UK branch of the International Ventriloquists Society whose branch meeting was held at Goodison that night?

He could say his name is Paul Zerdin with baby Sam.

Worth a shot.

Raymond Fox
97 Posted 21/10/2017 at 21:04:12
Good one John, its worth a shot.
Anthony Dwyer
98 Posted 21/10/2017 at 21:23:39
Fuck me this moment of madness has made this guy look like a complete twat.

He's front page of the Daily Mirror, he's all over Sky Sports News, he's been banned for life and all because he had a moment of madness and was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I might get hammered for this but the lad was probably about to get off out of the ground because he was as frustrated as most of us are, everyone has jumped all over him yet barely anyone has had anything to say over the Welsh captain and Everton's captain on the night throwing punches very close to the fans.

Williams spoke after the game and called it football!

Imo, Williams should be the one getting ribboned as he's the one who yet again has let the fans down.

John Keating
99 Posted 21/10/2017 at 21:32:19
Anthony you are not the only one mentioning the imbalance on punishment – if being barred from Everton games can be called punishment?
Tony Hill
100 Posted 21/10/2017 at 21:57:19
A fan brushes his hand against a footballer in a dim-witted moment. The Sun and our other putrid media are aghast. The Murdoch Sun pisses all over Liverpool and its dead for nearly thirty years. Our main funder rubs himself up against Murdoch Sky. Fan is banned.

Go figure that ethical equation.

Micheal Lynch
101 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:11:59
I'm amazed that people actually feel that the attention this fan is getting is warranted. While I agree he should face some sort of punishment, does he really deserve a lifetime ban and police investigation?

Yes what he did was wrong and yes it was worse the fact he was holding his little lad but a lifetime ban. Really???

I love the moral high ground been taken by many here. Can all those here say that they have never done something in front of their child that they later regretted. I'm not sure.

It's a rush of blood. It was not a punch it was a push. It was a mistake no doubt and bad example but police and life time bans, excessive to say the least .

The behaviour of Williams was far worse during the incident and later when he pushed the Lyon player after scoring. Eric Cantona kung fu kicked a Palace fan and got a nine-month ban. This fan pushed a player and a lifetime ban. 100% correct, Michael? Really ?

Phil (Kelsall) Roberts
102 Posted 21/10/2017 at 22:25:47
Phil Greenhough (#1),

Sorry to be so late in posting but when you said

"Totally correct that the fan has been banned. But if EFC are going to refer the matter to the police, they should also refer Williams for his actions off the field of play."

Did you not mean ON the field of play. His play this year has been bordering on the criminal.

Andy Walker
103 Posted 21/10/2017 at 23:33:46
Can I be controversial in the eyes of some, by stating that I think getting involved in a fight whilst carrying a young child in your arms is unacceptable, to put it mildly. The guy's a total disgrace.

Williams was an idiot and should be banned.

Our club comes out of this with it's reputation damaged.

Koeman benefits by the spotlight being diverted onto a bloke joining a fight carrying a young child. Something I have never seen before and I'm sure will never see again in this country.

By the way whether he slapped, punched, flayed, whatever, it is irrelevant, he was carrying a small child for Chris's sake. End of.

Barry Williams
104 Posted 22/10/2017 at 00:19:45
Andy Walker - 103. I echoed the same thing in an earlier post (no.65). No matter how I look at it, it ain't good or excusable.
Oliver Brunel
105 Posted 22/10/2017 at 07:45:03
Andy 103. I don't think anyone is saying the fan did a sensible thing and noone is supporting violence. Of course his behaviour with a child was idiotic. What I have issues with is the media attempt to construct another (old) story out of it. i.e. the vilification of Liverpool people.
Simon Lloyd
106 Posted 22/10/2017 at 08:03:12
John Wilson #78
How do you think that criminal barristers are paid?
They are legal aid lawyers as well.
John Keating
107 Posted 22/10/2017 at 08:35:48
IT has now been confirmed by the "Split on Sunday" red top that the "child" in question was indeed the dastardly Mini me.
It appears that after a successful incitement of Hadjuk Split supporters in the recent game at Goodison he has decided to move his international operations to the UK.
Be prepared for more incitement today either by said Mini me or the pathetic performance of manager and players
Oliver Brunel
108 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:04:11
Another thing. It is an insult to the people of Liverpool that Moshiri and Co. are cosying up to Talkdrivel radio station where the lowest common denominator of fat geordies and ex RS nobodies condone The Sun's bigoted hateful lies against the people of Liverpool, Muslims and any other group who don't fit their fascist profile. I think we need to be far more vocal and aggressive towards this club. When will the next Nyarko moment be?
Jim Lloyd
109 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:16:53
Condoning the fan's action is inexcusable. I would, however, look at the actions of the players and see what, if any, sanctions should be applied to them.

From what I saw, sitting in the Bullens Road upper stand, The Lyon goalkeeper pushed Williams (a possible penalty) and definitely a reason to be sent off for hands raised. Williams pushed back (another possible sending off offence) then a lot of French players rushed to push the pair of them right up and in one case at least, leaning over the ground perimeter barrier.

Action against massively paid professional players for incitement, right in front of and almost joining the crowd while they were so engaged, appears to have been yellow card issued to each side. Pathetic!
The referee was also culpable by allowing such a high level of gamesmanship, throughout the match by a a number of Lyon players. This frustrated players and fans alike. Again, I'm not condoning Williams action, or the fan's; but the action of those french players contributed

If this had taken place at the edge of the area, or further up field, the players from both sides ought to have been dealt with in a much stronger fashion.

As for the fan. What can you say when a man does that with a child in his arms? You could say a lot and it would all be accurate!

What really appalls me though, is the reaction of the media: and the subsequent comments on the social media, condemning all of us for the action of the players and one fan. Not on word did I see of criticism of the players (predominantly the Lyon players for pushing the initial spat right up to the perimeter barrier.

The press have yet again hyped up the action of one man, into an insinuation that somehow, our club AND ourselves are symptomatic of all that is perceived to be a reflection of Liverpool people.

Oliver Brunel
110 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:24:54
Jim (109) Excellent post.
Brian Williams
111 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:28:21
Take a look at the second video on the page, the slomo one. It clearly shows the fans "knockout punches" on the Lyon keeper, and the attempted retaliatory "punch" by another Lyon player.

https://twitter.com/InsideN17/status/921110841008717824

Brent Stephens
112 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:37:42
A highly charged atmosphere, with the players fighting and the fans showing signs of aggression. And what does that fan do, with a child in his arms? Steps up to join in! No matter if it was a slap or punch. No matter if you see worse elsewhere. In that atmosphere, with a child in your arms, you step back not forward. Dickhead of the highest order. Duty of care.

If that duty of care to a child extends to Everton, then a ban is appropriate. The length of that ban, for me, not appropriate.

What should happen to, or have happened to, the players is another matter.

Jim Lloyd
113 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:45:14
I think it is more than "another matter" regarding what should or what did happen to the players, as I believe the actions of the players could well have led to much more than oner fan being banned. The fan could not possibly have hit, slapped or anything else, a player if the players were further away from the perimeter fence. As such, they were an integral part of the process.
John Keating
114 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:52:46
We should never have got rid of the death penalty.
Plus, National Service for everyone over 2 years of age.
As for the players, well, certainly an improved contract for starters.
Brent Stephens
115 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:54:14
Jim, by saying "another matter" I wasn't at all underestimating that, just stopping short of answering that question in the same post. We're on the same page.
Tony Abrahams
116 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:54:41
I remember Clough hitting two forest fans for being on the pitch. He invited them down to the city ground, had a cup of tea with them then it was forgotten.

Agree with Brent, the length of the ban is wrong, even though this fella, has made a holy show of himself.

The club have got to be seen to be doing the right thing, and whilst I applauded them over giving Jose Baxter, a second chance, then surely a life ban, is pushing it to the extremes?

I joked earlier about the kid being made-up, but I know how much the match used to mean to me and my kids, when we never lived together, and I for one am really gutted for this fella now.

Brian Williams
117 Posted 22/10/2017 at 09:55:08
John#114.

At last, a balanced and reasonable approach.

Brent Stephens
118 Posted 22/10/2017 at 10:00:01
Tony, Brian Clough acted totally responsibly by putting young Nigel down first, before he slapped those two lads!
Jim Lloyd
119 Posted 22/10/2017 at 10:04:00
Sorry Brent! I misunderstood your meaning so my apologies.
Brent Stephens
120 Posted 22/10/2017 at 10:29:47
No probs, Jim!
Brian Williams
121 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:12:25
Off the game. COYB!
John Wilson
122 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:40:54
Duty of care? Let's discuss 1989 Liverpool v Sheffield Wednesday away at Hillsborough? Why were so many compensation claims knocked back except for the police and emergency services? Objective account? No thank you, we're interested in the side which favours are own view. Subjective account, yes.. why, because we're human and the fact is, morally we want a baddie to blame as it appeases our high sense of morals. You want everything to be perfect in its box, and job's a good-in'. Blame the enemy but who is the enemy? Cognitive dissonance, means a person is convinced of something even if the evidence were against the person's belief.
Tony Marsh
123 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:43:52
Why don't you all just let it go. There are more pressing concerns than some idiot throwing a slap at a player.The Media are loving this shite.You lot going on about it doesn't help.. Leave it to Sky etc to wallow in it. We should all move on.
John Wilson
124 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:44:04
The experts on these TW threads is just quite astounding.
Mark Fitzgerald
125 Posted 22/10/2017 at 11:54:32
I'm a bit perplexed why the focus of the incident is now centered around this spectator; he acted like an irresponsible prat and got what he deserved. End of.
But it is Williams who should be the focus of the conversation and any ensuing punishment. A bit disappointed to hear some defend his actions with the "finally some passion" argument. Indeed the player himself used this argument in the post match interview to justify his behavior. Maybe he can also explain his dire performances in a future interview.
Personally I love a bit of passion in a game that is being turned more & more sterile but the footballing governors. Soon it will be non-contact. Give me a Reid or a Carsley any day who will throw themselves full-blooded into the tackle and get the crowd on their feet. But Williams action was a cheap shot. Frustration maybe, but a cheap shot non the less. His behavior caused the fracas and where the club were quick, quite rightly, to ban the fan who got involved, where was the sanctioning of Williams?
The club is in a bad place at present and, as downbeat as I was with yet another anemic performance against Lyon, I was also saddened by the public shaming of the club I love.
Can't see Koeman turning around our fortunes so it's time for him to go. But, personally, I hope he takes Williams with him.
John Wilson
126 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:06:13
Mark Fitzgerald, if the media/ Everton reported of the incident, 'Williams' behaviour at Goodison was disgraceful as because of his volatility, it has caused a young man to believe that Williams was under threat and came to his aid.'

With this media conveying ideas, the likelihood is that people may see the fan's perspective rather than the fan being the, as you call him, 'the prat.'

Or, the media said, 'The UK's involvement in Iraq is obviously about oil and unfortunately it also means the effect of the UK's link with financial entities at world government level will force loans on Iraq thereby destroying the country; create foreseeable ISIS entities of its religious but quite extreme communities who'll kill many; also scapegoating Iraq's leader Saddam Hussein and cause him to be murdered at the Hague, all for a controlled media distortion.'

It is all about perception - the same stories can be conveyed from various perspectives.

Jim Lloyd
127 Posted 22/10/2017 at 12:50:44
Tony, there are plenty of other threads available to discuss the problems that our club is facing. Whether it's Moshiri to blame, Moshiri and Kenwright. Is it Koeman or is it the players; and you've been on most of them.

I've read a lot of them and your posts included. Good discussions on many aspects of where this club is at right now.

This post, however, was about a man slapping/hitting/pushing a player.

The fact that the media are wallowing with glee in the incident is, in my opinion, an aspect that is important enough for us to comment on. The implication, that I see, is that it isn't just a critism of one man, as idiotic as he was, the media ppear to be using the incident as a swipe at all of us.

Dave Lynch
128 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:01:41
Players are paid to "contest" the match, tempers flared and a scrap ensued.

Anyone who has played the game at any level will have witnessed/become involved in this type of incident.

Fans pay to "watch" the game and in no way should become physically involved in what happens on the pitch, this goes for all levels of the game.

No excuses, the fellas a moron.

Oliver Brunel
129 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:13:55
John Wilson(126) is correct. The media merely distort issues to reflect the present 'cultural bias'. There is a boring subject called Discourse Analysis which basically says one person's terrorist is anothers freedom fighter. Sky are masters at this and the BBC (cleverly subtle),the US is the best though. I don't listen to or read mainstream media. You must judge events objectively not through a filter.
Jim Lloyd
130 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:17:20
I think we're all agreed on that Dave.
Andy Walker
131 Posted 22/10/2017 at 13:28:57
Jim 127, spot on mate. Negative media coverage of this idiotic fan can change non Evertonians' perception of our club and us as fans. It may not be right, but perception often wins over reality in the media and can help create an unwarranted long term negative narrative.

Our usually very good PR has suffered this week which is no good for the club or its supporters.

John Wilson
132 Posted 22/10/2017 at 15:38:44
Oliver, Sky did the same with the demonstrating students – there is no such thing as meritocracy. They demonised the students.

At the time, I was agency driver for Tesco. I watched the drivers and they were saying, 'thugs' about the students. However, the drivers are not going to be in debt for the rest of their lives or be ripped off.

As I say it's all about the media and perception. I think society is so controlled subliminally.

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