Liam Walsh returns from Birmingham loan

Sunday 12 November 2017  113 Comments  [Jump to last]

Updated Liam Walsh is back at Finch Farm from his loan spell at Birmingham City.

The midfielder joined the Championship club for what was an initial six-month loan on transfer deadline day, a move that was seen as an important step in his development and on the path to breaking into the Toffees' first team.

However, Walsh has seen his opportunities severely restricted since Harry Redknapp was replaced by Steve Cotterill at St Andrew's and it was felt that he was better served coming home to play for Everton U23s to maintain his match fitness.

It is not clear whether he will return to Birmingham before the terms of his loan expire in January but the consensus is that it's unlikely if an article in the Birmingham Mail is any indication.

They posit that Walsh wasn't given enough of an opportunity to impress and that he showed the most promise in the one match where he was given significant playing time, that being in Redknapp's last match in charge, a 3-1 defeat to Preston, where he kept his composure while "all around him crumbled".

They also suggest that Walsh's set-piece deliveries and "composure on the ball" are qualities that the Midlands club could really use at the moment as they languish in the bottom three with 16 games played.

In his presser on Thursday, Steve Cotterill confirmed that, with a host of central midfield players available to him, he feels Walsh returning to Goodison is the best option for all concerned at this time.

"He wasn't going to be ahead of the players already in there (central midfield). We'd had a chat after the first week or two and I'd said just give me a little bit of time to look at it.

"And then when I think he wasn't going to get a game there were probably a few more conversations on whether he should go back or not.

"He couldn't go back (as a first team player) until the window, but he'd prefer to go back and play with the 23s for Everton, rather than play in our 23s.

"He's also back at home then, which I think was also another thing for him a bit as well.

"I've got nothing but good things to say about him. He's a great kid who had a lovely smile on his face every day he came in.

"He can go back but he will still be available for us if all of a sudden we're at a stage where we needed somebody to play.

"There was no animosity either way, but I didn't see him getting in ahead of what we had, so it was a clean decision.

"There will be more decisions to make like that as well going forward," continued Cotterill. "There will be other decisions made at the right times and I thought that that one was probably best for Liam at that moment in time."  

Reader Comments (113)

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Charlie Lloyd
1 Posted 12/11/2017 at 21:43:28
I’ve been following his plight with a bit of dismay as it’s played out over the last 2 months.

Talk about wrong move wrong time.

Great that however it’s happened the club have him back in the U23 set up.

Peter Gorman
2 Posted 12/11/2017 at 21:55:01
Glad he is back as he couldn't get the game time. Another loan perhaps or a debut under Unsworth.

Beni Baningime has not let himself down at all so far but I'd think Walsh would be ahead of him in the pecking order if there are first team games going.

Brent Stephens
3 Posted 12/11/2017 at 21:56:25
Hope this lad makes it and hope his loan spell hasn't set him back. Maybe not, as he's a tenacious guy on the pitch, and that's probably his underlying character.
Dave Abrahams
4 Posted 12/11/2017 at 22:00:53
If Liam is being allowed to play for Everton U23's but still on loan at Birmingham City which club is paying his wages, or does he get paid by both of them?.

In January I hope stays with Everton, he is not getting game time with Birmingham's first team because they are in a bad position in the Championship so the manager will be using his experienced players, although it doesn't look like they are doing him or the club much good.

Get back here Liam and if Unsworth gets the job you will be another young player who gets a game for the first team, if you do make sure you take your chance, you've got the ability.

Steve Carse
5 Posted 12/11/2017 at 22:45:00
Ironic to think that Davies only got his chance because of injury to Walsh at the time Koeman realised he had no options left but to call up from the U23s. Walsh was, maybe still is, rated the better of the two amongst the U23s coaches.
Paul Holmes
6 Posted 12/11/2017 at 23:35:35
I've never seen the lad play. Any posters on here tell the rest of us first team supporters what he is like? (Remember Seamus was on loan at Blackpool while Hibbert was our right back under Moyes!)
Frank Wade
7 Posted 13/11/2017 at 00:17:10
Good to see Liam back and hope he can continue his development with the U23s. I have been very impressed by his performances with the U23s last season and hope he can push on from here. It's a pity things didn't work out for him at Birmingham, possible due to the change in management.
Alan J Thompson
8 Posted 13/11/2017 at 05:30:12
I think all the young players out on loan should be brought back. It is unlikely that we will be qualifying for Europe unless blessed with an easy FA Cup draw until at least the semi's. Then, if/when safe from relegation, give them a chance to show if there is at least a glimmer of hope for them and something to work with next season or for a new manager to consider before lashing out on more would be/could be's and superstars of yesteryear.
Mike Gaynes
9 Posted 13/11/2017 at 06:20:05
Wow, what a great idea, Alan J.

Let's take them out of their highly competitive situations and bring them back to sit on our bench and kick around with our U23s until we're "safe from relegation."

And then throw them into the starting lineup.

Wonderful concept of player development. Brilliant.

Sam Hoare
10 Posted 13/11/2017 at 08:01:40
Paul (#6), I would say Walsh is a similar style of player to Tom Davies except that he is possibly a bit more creative. He's definitely on the small side but like Davies he is fiercely tenacious. He's pretty gifted technically and can pass and shoot pretty well.

His progress has been pretty hampered by injury sadly but a couple of years ago I think many were seeing him as the jewel in the crown. Fingers crossed he can get back on track, a few good games for the U23s and possibly a loan move in the new year if the right opportunity arises.

Gareth Clark
11 Posted 13/11/2017 at 08:49:17
Unfortunate timing & just bad luck in terms of the loan.

Get him nice and fit in the U23s until January & then back out on loan for me.

The thing that frustrates me, is that it doesn't look like a lot of thought goes into WHERE we are loaning our youngsters!

They have to be a mid to upper half of the table championship team – or a league 1 team pushing for promotion. A team where they will get a lot of game time, but in a decent team too so they can show their ability.

Galloway has been wasted in the last two years, and funnily enough we have needed him quite badly in the last year.

He should have gone to a team where he would be guaranteed a start at LCB in a 2 or a 3 man defense. Galloway hasn't played since matchday 5... Also bad luck due to chance in manager, and a team that is struggling will always go to the experienced players to try fix it... but you can't say that Marc Wilson is a better player than Galloway!

Got to get these decisions right & insert a clause that if they haven't played X amount of minutes/games etc (barring injury), the loan can be cancelled. No point wasting everyone's time.

Dave Abrahams
12 Posted 13/11/2017 at 09:08:38
Liam is a lad who practices all the time, he wants to be a success, he has been hampered by injuries as Sam Hoare points out. He's only small but can tackle, will not be intimidated verbally or physically.

He can do pretty much what Tom Davies does plus takes great corners and free kicks. What he needs is what every player needs, a bit of luck, if he gets that, just watch him go.

Steven Jones
13 Posted 13/11/2017 at 09:30:26
I watched him twice against Chelsea U23s in the Premier League 2 competition. Very competitive games, he was the leader of the team and the boss on the field, driving the team forward.

First game went head to head with Chelsea so called best and swamped them – we had over 20 chances with him running the midfield supported by Baningime.

Second game this season – he went head to head with Hazard and bossed him and we won 3-0.

Very skilful, short and strong and a winner's attitude.

David Ellis
14 Posted 13/11/2017 at 09:50:01
Gareth (#11) – Galloway had his chance at Sunderland in the early part of the season and didn't do well. And that's it really. He'll have to go down to a third tier side to make a living but I think he's not showing Championship level form at the moment unfortunately. He's not going to be playing for Everton again – that ship has sailed.

Browning has done better... but to make it in the Premier League you need to be killing it in the Championship, and I don't think Browning or Pennington (at Leeds) are doing that. Dowell on the other hand is going well.

I think all of these 4 have been loaned out to appropriate clubs and the manager of Sunderland had previously handled our loanees well at Preston. Unfortunately he's been sacked.

Kevin Prytherch
15 Posted 13/11/2017 at 10:40:49
Browning was highly thought of by Sunderland fans at the start of the season, but has dropped out of contention recently.

Pennington has been hit and miss, he was injured for 2 months then had a couple of good games and a couple of bad games.

Galloway started the first few, I think he scored one, then hasn't featured at all for the last couple of months. I think he's there as a left back but can't get in past Oviedo.

Dowell's played 12 I think, 6 goals and 3 assists.

The other one who no-one mentions is Joe Williams at Barnsley who has played almost every game. Not heard a lot about him, sits in front of the defence and does his job.

Peter Gorman
16 Posted 13/11/2017 at 11:56:56
How to describe Walsh? Exactly as others have said. He was always on the small side but has bulked up since the Premier League 2 win last year.

What strikes me most about him is his attitude; willingness to learn and lead. If he stays here I would wager you'll see him first hand before long.

Funny that Kevin brings up Joe Williams as I was thinking that the other day. Joe is the forgotten jewell, never as highly rated as those before him but I think it was his emergence when Ledson and Walsh were on loan at Cambridge and Yeovil that eventually saw Ledson leave the club for games.

Williams plays every game for Barnsley in the Championship and recent scored a worldy against Burton. Another one for TW to report on from time to time.

David Hallwood
17 Posted 13/11/2017 at 12:37:57
BTW Messi and Iniesta are both on the small side.

I have a dream: Beni wins it in midfield, passes to Davies who gives it to Kenny who lays it off to Lookman who beats two men and threads it to Walsh who pings it to Calvert-Lewin who beats his marker shoots, the goalkeeper parries the shot to Dowell who slots it home.

Altogether now – you can say that I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one.

Sam Hoare
18 Posted 13/11/2017 at 12:55:49
Yes, Peter. Williams is doing very well from what I hear from Barnsley. Has been a nailed on starter and important part of a team that is probably doing better than many expected. Not a glamourous player in the way that Dowell might be but very solid and dependable in that central midfield berth, winning the ball and distributing it sensibly.

We are fairly overrun with 'solid' central midfield players (Gueye, Schneiderlin, McCarthy, Davies, Besic etc) but to make yourself a mainstay in a mid-table Championship team at just 20 bodes well.

Dave Abrahams
19 Posted 13/11/2017 at 13:36:40
Sam (18), it will be interesting to see Joe Williams when he comes back from Barnsley, I think Joe was well rated a couple of years ago then had a bad injury which kept him out of the game for a long spell.

Joe is another lad who can tackle and pass, he played in the U23s game at the end of last season versus Liverpool, played his usual all action game, but seemed to me to have lost a bit of pace through the injury.

However he has played consistently well for Barnsley in a very competitive league so maybe he is back to the way he was, I hope so he looked a very promising player before his injury.

What was good about that game versus Liverpool was the way the young lads played for each other even though they lost. In one incident near the end of the game, a big brute of a player, a substitute for Liverpool, tackled Baningime with no intention of playing the ball, he put Beni down. Immediately Kenny and Williams were at this lad's face, Williams had him by the neck and had to be pulled off him, while Jonjoe was telling him what he thought of him. They play for each other and defend each other: the Evertonian Scousers.

Alan J Thompson
20 Posted 13/11/2017 at 14:43:05
Mike (#9): And why do you think they are bringing Walsh back? Do you actually know how many on loan are getting any playing time? Obviously not. But you think them getting games in lower divisions will tell if they are ready for Everton's first team?

Now read my post properly – or is your concept having them not playing in lower division sides or in their reserve teams?

Peter Mills
21 Posted 13/11/2017 at 14:52:50
Dave (#19), I know you take a keen interest in the progress of the young lads. The Liverpool game was the only lower-age match I saw last season, and I also enjoyed the way the boys piled into that melee. Okay, it's something they will have to rein in, there's no point in getting sent off, but it showed they have each other's backs.

I think that's what most of us mean when we refer to “getting Everton”. It's important, we recognise it when we see it, the scousers understand it, but so did people like Landon Donovan and Tim Cahill. It can be the difference between winning and losing, and needs to be harnessed by the manager.

Steve Ferns
22 Posted 13/11/2017 at 15:00:51
I believe he can't play for us in the league until January as he's registered to Birmingham. But as he's under 21, I may be wrong.

However, he will be eligible for the Europa League. Is it not worth giving him some game time there in two dead rubbers?

Paul Holmes
23 Posted 13/11/2017 at 15:15:00
Any news on the left back who was on the bench for the U20 World Cup Final win (I can't remember his name). He was loaned out but no mention of his progress in amongst all the players mentioned on here . We need left-back cover for Baines.
Ray Roche
24 Posted 13/11/2017 at 15:23:08
Callum Connolly is the lad you're thinking of. He was on loan at Wigan but has since gone on loan to Ipswich where he has only made a couple of appearances, I think.
Steve Ferns
25 Posted 13/11/2017 at 15:58:31
Garbutt is an interesting one. We have limited spaces for Premier League registration, and due to his age he would need to be registered. If he was Connolly's age, I think he would get games; instead, it's more likely we will not register him. That means either Galloway or Connolly would need to be recalled so they could be backup to Baines. I cannot see us going into the second half of the season with no cover for Baines.
Frank Wade
26 Posted 13/11/2017 at 16:09:56
Paul #6. Take a look at these YouTube compilations for Liam Walsh. If Ross had Liam's vision and eye for the quick incisive pass and Liam had Ross's physicality, what a midfield we would have. Link

I think Callum Connolly was back in the Ipswich team last week. Joe Williams seems to be getting the most value from his loan. Plays every week for Barnsley.

Dave Abrahams
27 Posted 13/11/2017 at 16:15:44
Peter (21), yes I fully agree with you that they have to rein in their tempers although it was a derby game and so the tension was higher. That is one of the faults Liam Walsh has or had, in one of his games for Yeovil he was sent off very early for attacking one of the opposition who was down his ear; he hopefully will learn from that.

Alan Ball had the same fault, was his own worst enemy for it. In one game versus Newcastle, he was incensed by a poor decision from the referee and exploded. Howard Kendall pulled him away from the ref three times before the official had had enough and sent Bally off.

Steve Ferns
28 Posted 13/11/2017 at 16:20:48
You have it right there Frank. There's talk on the Moyes era thread of Gravesen. I think Walsh has similar attributes, whilst being better defensively. I'd love to see if Liam can step up. Being Unsworth's captain for long periods, I would bet we will get to see him, if Unsworth can cling on to the job for a bit longer.

I would say that Ross does have good vision, and can see the pass, but he can also see a couple of other passes and suffers really from indecisiveness. I think he's a much better footballer when encouraged to play without thinking and to act naturally. I think Unsworth may be the man to help him with this, unlike his 3 previous managers who changed him too much, and made him think too much.

Peter Mills
29 Posted 13/11/2017 at 16:28:35
Dave (#27), that has just reminded me of Steve McMahon bundling Peter Reid out of play in a derby at Anfield, their lot loving it, Reidy jumping up, snarling, seeing who it was, grinning and rubbing McMahon's thinning hair!
Dave Abrahams
30 Posted 13/11/2017 at 17:14:10
Frank. (26) Thanks for the links on Liam Walsh, see him for Yeovil, lowest league I know, but that was two years ago, he was 17. He's had a couple of injuries since then that have kept him back; he just needs that bit of luck and he is away.

And I know YouTube makes things look better.

Tony Abrahams
31 Posted 13/11/2017 at 17:17:01
Walsh, has obviously been brought back because he's not playing but maybe it's because Unsworth thinks a lot of him and wants him back training with our own first team? Only ever heard Dave, rave about one young kid more than Liam Walsh, and anyone who speaks about this kid, usually does so in glowing terms.

I was speaking to Tom Davies, before he made his debut, and I asked him about Walsh? He turned his head towards me and asked me how I knew about him? I told him me dar raves about him, and Tom, said he's me mate, I've come through with him.

The reason I mention this (not something I'd normally do) is because I could see the competitive spirit in Davies, right then, and I think that these kids who are coming through at Everton right now, are all the same. Little winners, they want the best for themselves, but also want the best for their mates, and these type of players drag every last ounce of effort out of everyone?

Steve Ferns
32 Posted 13/11/2017 at 17:28:30
I have seen evidence of that too Tony. They seem to compete with each other to try to get to the next level first. This is what the Man Utd lot (the famed class of '92 seemed to do), but as Dave mentioned above, they also have that togetherness that is like a brotherly bond.

I may have blue tinted glasses on, but I do think we have something special in our class of '17, and I'd love Unsworth to be given some time to bring them through this season and see what happens.

Some are happy for Big Sam to come in and save us, and to write the season off. Why not let Unsworth bring the kids through, and as long as we stay up, then lets not see if the progress made this season is not to the benefit of the club in the long term, by giving us (even under a different manager next season) a team we can build on.

Tony Abrahams
33 Posted 13/11/2017 at 18:31:36
It's what we all want Steve, but I think that Wenger, has had quite a few of these young teams down the years, but once they progress it's sometimes very hard to keep hold of them?

Hopefully it will be different with our own team, especially because we have got a lot of local kids who might just have a lot more feeling for Everton. Maybe a pointer towards this will be what Ross Barkley wants to do now Koeman, has left?

Steve Ferns
34 Posted 13/11/2017 at 18:38:44
Of course, Tony. The only rebuttal can be that perhaps Wenger doesn't know how to assemble a defence and had he done so, then the attacking players he developed may have produced a few more championship winning teams? Who knows for sure?
Barry Pearce
35 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:05:54
Birmingham City's loss; welcome back, young Liam.
John McFarlane
36 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:12:31
Hi Dave [30] Tony [31] and Steve [32], living out in the sticks [Skelmersdale] for the last 50 years, and the fact that football has changed both on and off the pitch, it's impossible for me to keep track of the younger players, other than through newspaper coverage.

Although I was born in Everton, and spent the first 10 years of my life there, I grew into adulthood in Anfield. I know that Dave is in my age group, and he will remember when the extent of both Everton and Liverpool's recruitment policy, was to sign the entire Liverpool schoolboy team, between them.

Living in the Cabbage Hall area of Anfield, Goodison Park was only a ten minute walk away, and the only youth football we could see at that time was the Youth Cup, and I still drool over the likes of Joe Royle Jimmy Husband etc.

I am not in favour of the loan system, other than the benefit of giving young players the benefit of a really competitive experience. I certainly don't believe in the swapping of established players, I think that clubs should be restricted to loaning players up to the age of 21 years of age, and I also believe that a limit should be imposed regarding the number of players clubs can send out on loan.

Chelsea, according to reports have over 40 players out on loan, and though I may be elderly I don't think I'm naïve, I know that whatever system is adopted there will be someone who will abuse it.

Returning to my original reason for posting, I have to admit that the likes of Tom Davies, Dominic Calvert Lewin, etc were only names to me, whereas I'd actually seen Joe Royle , Jimmy Husband etc. play.

As I have hinted, I don't expect that there to be any changes to the loan system, [remotely resembling the ones I have put forward], but I would be interested in learning your views on the issue.

Darren Hind
37 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:28:38
Dave A

I agree with both MIke and Alan 8+9 - - funny how often that happens on here.

Two strong arguments . .Be interested in your thoughts

Brent Stephens
38 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:34:58
Mike's post #9 is worth reading closely.
Frank Wade
39 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:54:35
Darren, Just in case you're not joking in #37, my reading of Mike's post at 9 was that he was disagreeing with Alan's post at 8.

The loan system can be very beneficial to a player. In the current group, it looks as if Kieran Dowell and Joe Williams are benefiting hugely and to a slightly lesser extent Antonee Robinson. If players such as Liam Walsh, Brendan Galloway and Tyias are not getting games, then it's best that we bring them back to play with u23s as we've done with Liam Walsh. I don't think we can register them to play in the first team until the start of the next transfer window, once we have loaned them out.

Andrew Keatley
40 Posted 13/11/2017 at 19:56:44
Steven Jones (13) - Walsh "bossed" Hazard in that Under 23 game? That is amongst the most far-fetched thing I've ever read on ToffeeWeb. Well done, sir.
Mike Gaynes
41 Posted 13/11/2017 at 20:05:25
Frank #39, your reading is correct.

Alan's posts do sometimes move me to sarcasm. A flaw in my character.

My point was simply that we loan these players out so they can get their first taste of fighting for a place in the lineup, which isn't possible for them at Everton. If they fail on loan, they're not likely to succeed with the big club. And most do fail. The ones who succeed in competing and developing sometimes become starters and even stars... paging Mr Coleman.

Tony Abrahams
42 Posted 13/11/2017 at 20:11:41
It's mad though sometimes, Mike, because Galloway looked like a really good player when he played in our first team, but he's failed at two lesser sides for whatever reason.
Brent Stephens
43 Posted 13/11/2017 at 20:16:44
Mike #41 your post at #9 was good.
Brent Stephens
44 Posted 13/11/2017 at 20:22:53
Tony #42, Galloway's apparent decline is a disappointment. I thought he was at least competent in the firsts, though maybe lacking in confidence (or under orders not to be too ambitious?). Strange the way he seems to have gone backwards by some accounts. Salvageable?
Tony Abrahams
45 Posted 13/11/2017 at 21:07:52
I think so Brent, but he needs to be playing for the right club. Confidence will be a big issue with him now I'm sure, but he looked a good player to me and someone I thought would become a lot better when he filled out and gained some more strength?
Darren Hind
46 Posted 13/11/2017 at 21:23:07
Frank @39

Yeah I got that. When you know your stuff like Mike indisputably does. its very easy to blow away somebody elses point . .but I feel there is something in what AJ has to say.

Would be interested in Dave's thoughts

Peter Lee
47 Posted 13/11/2017 at 22:11:20
Steve Ferns, I respect your right to a view on Ross Barkley having vision but thar he sees so many options he is indecisive.

I'd love you to explain two things. How does this vision work when he plays with his head down and why does it switch off when he is defending and opposition players run past him?

Peter Mills
48 Posted 13/11/2017 at 22:24:56
it’s very, very tough to gauge who is going to be the star of the future. I’ve watched a bit of our junior teams over the years and only the only one to smack everyone in the face was Rooney.

The rest have been impossible to assess. As they came through, Rodwell looked great, Ratcliffe looked awful. Coleman looked dreadful for the reserves, Cadamateri a world beater when he came into the first team.

The difference between a good manager and, well, us, is having the confidence to pick and continue with selecting these lads when things are not going right. The one thing we can do as supporters is to offer patience.

Frank Wade
49 Posted 13/11/2017 at 23:42:49
John #36. Your comments on the Loan system had me wondering how things are with other clubs in comparison to our 9 out on loan players. Chelsea and Man City have 34 out on Loan. In Italy it's on a totally different level. Juventus have 80 players out on loan, Inter have 59 and our friends in Atalanta have 69. Can just imagine the administration overhead keeping track.
Don Alexander
50 Posted 13/11/2017 at 00:19:22
Peter Lee (#47), your observations re Barkley are spot on. The fact that even those who think he's brilliant can only cite in the four seasons he's been a regular three ('ish) goals he's scored that were anywhere near exceptional (against a bog-standard Newcastle, a poor Norwich and a very good City) speaks volumes. Without the ball the lad seems to TRY to be invisible and with his head down in possession he so often takes the wrong passing option. I suspect the horrific injury he sustained at 18 has by now, as he nears 24, irretrievably bollocksed any chance he may have had of being excellent, and that's very sad indeed.

Frank Wade's input (#49) points to the way modern day football has a tendency to eat itself. The loan stats of the Italian teams are indicative of the huge greed of the monied clubs whilst the national team, and the careers of the indigenous kids trying to establish themselves as footballers, patently fail.

The fact that we reflect the same behaviour in our monied teams, whilst the national team continue to look like a Sunday League outfit and kids at any of the top clubs get so little game time is a disgrace.

Still, as long as the first-team players from here, there and everywhere, and the shysters in the boardroom, get more and more millions in their personal bank accounts what else matters?

Dave Abrahams
51 Posted 13/11/2017 at 00:25:39
Darren (37), I can see why you agree with both Alan and Mike even though they have different points of view.

Alan makes a point of bringing all our loan players back to Finch Farm. I can see the case in some of them but not all. Liam Walsh – I am completely biased in favour of this lad and want the best for him; he is not getting a game for Birmingham so what is the point of him staying there? Walsh needs to be playing so he might as well be playing for Everton's U23s as Birmingham's, and it is only six weeks to January.

Dowell looks to be growing up at Nottm Forest so leave him there; he'll learn to be a harder and rougher player in the Championship. He has all the skill necessary to be a good player... leaving home and learning to look after himself can only help him. As for the other players, Williams is getting regular football at Barnsley and is better there.

Each player is different and it is Joe Royle's job to assess them.

Dave Abrahams
52 Posted 14/11/2017 at 00:53:25
Sorry I've been out tonight, had to stop on my last post to go for a hit and a miss, had six or seven pints.

Anyway where was I, yes it all depends on each individual player, Anton Robinson looks a very good player and may not be getting enough games with Bolton but he is just up the road from home and easily able to see his family and friends while still getting some minutes in the Championship so leave him there.

Galloway looked a good prospect when he came into Everton's first team but he has since stalled seems to be an attitude problem when he is relegated to the reserves but I don't know the lad so could miles wrong about that.

Browning and Pennington will or should make good careers and money out of football but doubt it will be in the premier league but sincerely hope I am wrong about that.

When I first watched football the ambition of players was to get a good career and finish up managing a pub or something like that. Players starting today can be millionaires by the time they are in their early twenties, some achieve this and just fall away, others go on and on and become world famous; it is all down to how far they want to go. We have got quite a few young lads at Everton who can get to the top and we will all benefit if they do and they stay at Bramley-Moore Dock.

Mike Gaynes
53 Posted 14/11/2017 at 01:42:30
Tony #44, Brent #45, Dave #51, agree... I'm bewildered at what has happened with Galloway. Thought he was a star in the making.

Dave, my theory is that he lost confidence. He was playing so well in Baines' stead when he got hurt, and the injury took much longer to heal than anticipated, so he was left on the bench. And when loaned out to get back up to speed, he couldn't get a game. I think the league also figured out that he was completely one-footed... could only tackle in one direction... and he became easier to beat off the dribble.

And I agree with Dave on Browning and Pennington, although I think Pennington's pace and skill could still make him a player if he can develop a little arrogance. He was downright timid last year when I saw him against Leicester.

Alan J Thompson
54 Posted 14/11/2017 at 04:16:42
Mike(#41); And what does your sarcasm make of the loans of Barkley and Deulofeu?

My point is that anything to be found from sending players on loan should have been seen by now and if Everton were riding high in the Premier League then I'd be in favour of leaving those playing regularly where they are but not so for those not getting any game time.

Again, if and when we are clear of any relegation issues or perhaps even if it looks like we will be, these players should be brought back sometime before the end of the season for proper assessment by any new/permanent manager with regard to persevering or not. January is the only opportunity for those who may be who may be considered good enough for our first team this season and then on top of that they will have to compete next season with those already on the fringes of the first team (Lookman, Baningime, Sandro etc) and players basically still to come (Onyerkuru, Tarashaj). I'd sooner see this process start now rather than trying to assess them in pre-season friendlies alongside any new signings.

Pre-planning as is covered under the Cahill-Moyes article rather than golfing holidays being ruined by the wonderment of how the sale and purchase of a striker is going.

Andy Dempsey
55 Posted 14/11/2017 at 08:41:52
Galloway is at Sunderland. It’s a poisonous club. Is anyone really shining there as a player?
Pickford only stood out because he was having so many shots to deal with (and he’s brilliant). On a slight tangent, the Pickford doubters really wind me up more than anything in life. I mean, how can you be that miserable, may as well top yerself.

Put Galloway at a decent side, he’ll play better. It’s not always about the individual, and the singling out of individual performances. It’s a team game.
Dowell is thriving in a team shape with players that compliment him, and an adoring, knowledgable Forest crowd.
The whole atmosphere at Sunderland has become insidiously pessimistic.
We need to pick the right clubs for these players to develop.
I see Galloway being at his best as the left sided centre back in a back three.
So send him to a team who plays this formation!!
As for Walsh, he should be at Forest with Dowell, or a similar side.

Williams is doing well, he’s steady. But maybe that’s his level with Barnsley.

Dave Williams
56 Posted 14/11/2017 at 08:59:27
I think we have to put faith in Joe Royle here.He has vast experience,was a first team star at less than the age of these lads and will know them well enough to be able to judge who is ready to fend for themselves on loan and who isn't.
We must remember that leaving home at 18/19/20 is a huge deal depending on maturity and then being thrown in with grown men who will physically and mentally intimidate to stop you from doing well in your job is one hell of a challenge!
I know that Joe rates Liam and Kieran as the two most likely to succeed and as Dave Abrahams says above Walsh will not be intimidated by anyone.
This is why I want Unsy to get the job.He knows these players better than anyone and is best equipped to make first team players out of them.
A midfield 3 of Davies Walsh and Williams with Dowell Lookman and DCL ahead of them could be really something and would save us a fortune.
Ajay Gopal
57 Posted 14/11/2017 at 15:02:49
Dave (56), that forward 6 looks good, I would swap Baningime for Williams. Taking that ahead, an all Everton Youth / Academy Premiership XI:

Pickford (I know, the exception)
Kenny Pennington Browning Galloway
Davies Baningime Walsh
Dowell DCL Lookman

Liam Reilly
58 Posted 14/11/2017 at 15:28:13
Huge game on Saturday for Unsworth to show he can deliver and buy himself time to Jan at least.

He needs to tighten up at the back and midfield, so I'd not expect to see Walsh until maybe the dead rubber in Europe, but it'd be great to see this kid given a chance.

Tom Bowers
59 Posted 14/11/2017 at 16:03:44
On reflection, Everton have a deep well of talent which begs the question why such an awful season so far.
One has to point he finger at the manager and coaching staff mainly and a lack of forsight over the ultimate departure of Lukaku because without a doubt the main area lacking is the finishing.
In the end, Sandro has been a bust, Niasse wasn't on Koeman's locker list, Dowell was considered loan material only but DCL was given the nod and only has one league goal so far, Rooney is only a part-time scorer these days, Mirallas too, with Gylfi expected to get some goals but only one in the Europa league
fiasco.
We are all now hoping the turnaround against Watford will indeed be a turnaround of the season somewhat and trust the Palace game doesn't turn out to be just another yawn.
Tony Marsh
60 Posted 14/11/2017 at 16:07:24
Ajay @ 57Pennington is stinking the place out at Elland Rs. From what I and others have seen he is not even mid championship level never mind PL .
Jon Withey
61 Posted 14/11/2017 at 16:25:34
Not sure Pennington, Connolly, Holgate or Galloway are premiership ready. Admittedly Holgate has been doing a good job but not enough to push Jags, Williams or Keane.

I also think that Dowell is in the right place at the moment - although fingers crossed he will be in our squad next season.

Terence Tyler
62 Posted 14/11/2017 at 18:26:52
Type or paste your comment here. PLEASE capitalise initial letters of proper names and use proper grammar. No txt-speak; all-lowercase posts are likely to be deleted
Dave Williams
63 Posted 14/11/2017 at 19:36:29
Ajay/ Tony- young Feeney could be the CB in another 12 months?
Brent Stephens
64 Posted 14/11/2017 at 19:41:25
Dave the U23 CB partnership has looked very solid, based on what I've seen of it this season. Getting me drooling (or is that my age?).
Nigel Munford
65 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:07:43
Can someone tell me why we sold Shane Duffy? Was he deemed not good enough for us?
Mike Gaynes
66 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:15:34
Yep, Nigel. Didn't have the pace and didn't mark well. But as he has showed today, he could always head a ball.

Unfortunately his goal hasn't held up. Ireland 1-1 Denmark right now.

Mike Gaynes
67 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:17:58
And now 1-2 Denmark.
George Freeman
68 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:20:28
Nigel, we had him from age 16 - 22. He had 3 loan spells. DM must have thought him not good enough along with Dier and Mustaphi. Perhaps they were late developers.
Mike Gaynes
69 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:33:25
George, you're repeating a false tale. Dier was never ours to keep. We did try to buy him at the end of his loan from Sporting but were priced out.

Duffy has developed more or less as Moyes expected -- a Championship-level centerback. Happy for him that he's back in the Prem with BHA, but never a top-drawer player.

Steve Ferns
70 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:34:36
George, we can certainly blame Moyes for Duffy and Mustafi. He had plenty of time to run the rule over them and found them short. Which was wrong in hindsight.

Eric Dier was slightly different. We had him on loan, to our academy, for a prolonged trial. We decided that he wasn't worth the fee, it was £1.5m if I recall correctly, and I can forgive that one. The other two he should have kept.

http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/revealed-how-close-everton-came-12681432

George Freeman
71 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:36:43
Mike, yes of course, I stand corrected on Dier.
Andy Crooks
72 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:37:42
Nigel, # 65 we sold Shane Duffy because Roberto Martinez is and was utterly inept. In my opinion, and there is plenty of competition, the worst coach in our history.
Steve Ferns
73 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:40:49
How does our worst ever coach get a record points total? Beaten only by Howard Kendall in our entire history?

How does our worst ever coach get us to two semi finals in one season, a feat only matched by Howard Kendall in our entire history?

How does our worst ever coach take us to the quarter finals of a European Competition, beaten only by Howard Kendall?

Andy Crooks
74 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:47:59
Steve, Duffy was sold by Martinez. He suffered an horrendous, life threatening injury. Any decent coach would have given him plenty of time and and patience. The lamentable Martinez brought in Alcaraz, in my opinion, one of the worst defenders ever to disgrace the shirt.

Duffy was sold for £3 million. I thought it was shite management then and when I Iook at the utter shambles that our defence is now, I am even more convinced that the appointment of relegation Roberto was and is an indictment of Bill Kenwright.

David Barks
75 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:48:01
Andy,

Duffy was sold because he wasn't good enough. Actually, he was nowhere near good enough.

Mike Gaynes
76 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:48:15
Steve and Andy, whatever the merits of the managers involved, I don't think selling Duffy was a mistake at all. After leaving us he was never more than an average performer in the Championship and is making only his 17th appearance for Ireland. IMO he never belonged in the ranks of Jags, Distin or Heitinga (the latter sours our memories now, but he was our POY in 2011-12), and he never had a prayer in competing heads-up with John Stones for a roster spot.

I've seen nothing from him since to change my mind. He wasn't what we needed.

Steve Carse
77 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:49:57
Steve (73), I guess the answer to your first question is that for most of our football history it was only 2 pts for a win
Steve Ferns
78 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:51:04
Andy I don't disagree we should have kept Duffy, see above I said so.

I take issue with you labelling a manager who got 72 points, a record in the Premier League (by quite some way) and a total that's beaten only by Howard Kendall (and none of our other managers) as being our worst ever.

Again, no one else (but Kendall) has ever got Everton to two Cup Semi Finals in one season. And Again, no one but Kendall has taken Everton past the Quarter Finals of European Competition (not even Harry Catterick got Everton to the Quarter Finals).

So to call Martinez our worst ever, is absolutely ridiculous.

Andy Crooks
79 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:51:50
Mike and David. Would either of you really have Williams over Duffy? He has been excellent at Brighton.
David Barks
80 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:56:14
Andy,

How many years ago did we sell him? And which premier league clubs did he dominate for in defense during that time? Don't pull the ridiculous Williams card as if it was a choice between the two. Williams isn't good enough either.

Let me make it simple for you. He was sold to Blackburn in 2014, then sold to Brighton last year. He hasn't been some great defender that we let go. He's been a Championship player and could easily be a Championship player next season.

Steve Ferns
81 Posted 14/11/2017 at 20:57:19
Steve, adjust it for 3 points for a win, and not many managers go past him. He's certainly in the top 25% for best season. And yet Andy has him as the worst ever.

There's no adjusting the Cup or European Record.

So again, the statement is ridiculous.

Mike Gaynes
82 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:02:22
Andy, of course I'd have him over Williams now, but that's FOUR YEARS worth of hindsight. His last appearance with us was 2013. At no time since then would have been good enough to play for us.

And hey, I've seen him with Brighton. Still bang average in my book, except for attacking corners in the air.

Mike Gaynes
83 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:04:04
And unfortunately he's not going to the World Cu either. Now 1-3 Denmark.
Steve Ferns
84 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:04:29
Eire out now.

I hope anyone wanting O'Neill watched these games.

Mike Gaynes
85 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:06:43
And it was Duffy who failed to step up on Erikson's shot. Just sat back and played bullfighter.
Andy Crooks
86 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:11:16
Steve, the Christmas surrender at Southampton was the worst performance I have ever seen from an Everton coach. His good season was on the back of a drilled Moyes defence. He was arrogant stubborn and naive. He would, in my view, have relegated us.

He destroyed Wigan. Pragmatism might well have saved them but it it had to be the Martinez way. Then he deserted them and for reasons beyond comprehension he got the Everton job. His last days at our club were as bad as it gets.

The damage he inflicted, compounded by Koeman( yes, I was wrong about him) has blighted what should be a new era for our club. He was abysmal.

David Barks
87 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:11:26
Feel bad for the Irish but laughing my ass off at O'Niell and that prick Keane. Enjoy your Summer hols.
Steve Ferns
88 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:18:23
Andy, you're still being ridiculous. You cannot credit Moyes for something Martinez betters by 9 points. And even then, that does not justify your label of the worst ever.

We've had managers who dreamed of a season as good as the one that got Martinez sacked. Please rein in your sensationalism and gross exaggeration.

Dave Abrahams
89 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:23:28
Steve (#81), you cannot adjust the cup records is correct but you can have a good look at the teams we beat in both competitions; they were not the best by any means.

So I think we were lucky with the cup draws that season and I know you can only beat what is put in front of you: it really wasn't that much of an achievement, Steve.

Steve Ferns
90 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:25:51
It isn't much of an achievement, but in almost 140 years, only Kendall has matched it?

Regardless Dave, Andy is saying he is the worst ever. He is far from it. He doesn't even make the top 10.

Steve Ferns
91 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:37:25
As for the Irish, is there any worse way to rub your nose in it than have Nicklas Bendtner score against you?
Nigel Munford
92 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:49:30
Thanks for the info on Duffy. I knew he'd been injured and I knew Martinez sold him, and at the time couldn't really see why. He seems to be getting rave reviews now at BHA. Were we short-sighted??
Nigel Munford
93 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:50:59
Oh and sorry about the cam of worms I seemed to have opened. Lovely debate this about Martinez, how did his Belgium team do this evening?
Dave Abrahams
94 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:54:51
Steve (90), I think Gordon Lee was manager of Everton when we played in two semi finals of both cups Bolton and Liverpool, a bit sneaky if I am correct because Billy Bingham did the bulk of the work in the League Cup, including a 3-0 win at Old Trafford.
Tony Abrahams
95 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:58:57
Steve, I don’t want Martin O’Neill because I think he his too old but that game wasn’t down to coaching, it was about the quality of the Danish players, in comparison to the Irish?

Poor mistakes from players who were just not comfortable on the ball, and then they were chasing the game, and never had enough about themselves to really go about this.

The Danes, also knew this, and they just passed the football early, and at pace, they knew they had too much quality for The Irish, and this was the obvious difference between the two sets of players.

Ireland all heart, but Denmark possessed the quality footballers.

Grant Rorrison
96 Posted 14/11/2017 at 21:59:02
Nigel (#93). They won 1-0 against Japan.

Dave Abrahams
97 Posted 14/11/2017 at 22:09:45
Grant (96), and Thingy scored the winner.
Nigel Munford
98 Posted 14/11/2017 at 22:13:05
Thanks Grant
Jim Jennings
99 Posted 14/11/2017 at 22:14:24
Tony #95

Yes the Danish were far better but O'Neill played his part in that capitulation. He panicked at half time by taking off his two centre mids and replacing them with lightweight, inconsistent attackers, giving Eriksen the freedom of Dublin to pick Ireland apart. Asking Hendrick to play holding midfield, playing McClean as a striker is madness, asking a 75 year old Murphy to chase hoofs twice in four days, leaving Long on the bench. I could go on

As for the Duffy debate, he's excellent in the air and a good old fashioned stopper but positionally not always great, reacts too slow to danger at times and lacks pace. Much as I like him, he was not the level we needed at the time nor is he likely to be so Martinez was right to let him go and the player himself has benefitted from cutting his teeth in the Championship. The fact that he is playing at all after a laceration to his liver is testament to his strength of character.

John Daley
100 Posted 14/11/2017 at 22:17:52
Andy,

You persistently championed Shane Duffy for years on these pages, but I seem to remember, come his departure, even you conceded it was the right call to cut him loose at that time.

He always had heart, was decent in the air and never let anyone down when he got a game, but nor did he ever look like having a realistic chance of cementing a place in the first-team squad. The fact we've seen a number of cloggers signed since (some of whom share Duffy's deficiencies) doesn't make ditching him a mistake in retrospect. It just means our recruitment over recent seasons has mainly been shite.

One thing is for sure though, rightly or wrongly, nobody can ever accuse you of not being firmly in your boys corner, but sometimes your sense of kinship can cloud objective judgement. After all, you once swore blind to me that Seamus was twice the player Gareth Bale could ever hope to be....

Tony Abrahams
101 Posted 14/11/2017 at 22:33:41
Fair enough Jim, I turned over and when I turned back the second half was already underway. I didn’t think,it mattered that much though because once Denmark, went in front, I thought they had too much quality for the Irish, especially considering Ireland had to score twice, which meant they were always chasing the game.
Andy Crooks
102 Posted 15/11/2017 at 10:44:56
John, unfortunately I do recall the Seamus, Bale comparison. I hoped that no one else had!
Peter Gorman
103 Posted 15/11/2017 at 20:20:46
I still believe it Andy.
Andy Crooks
104 Posted 15/11/2017 at 20:41:49
Steve, you have told me to rein in my sensationalim and exaggeration. Now, much as I respect your views, in fact your tactical analyisis us superb reading, you have stated post # 90, that the hapless Martinez is not in the top ten worst managers.

Well, Steve, NAME TEN WORSE?

Michael Kenrick
Editorial Team
105 Posted 16/11/2017 at 17:03:13
Getting back on topic, Steve Cotterill at Brum has confirmed that Liam was just crowded out of midfield.

I've added his comments to the main story up top.

Robin Cannon
107 Posted 16/11/2017 at 17:21:06
I don't really have any serious criticism of either Duffy or Mustafi being allowed to leave.

Duffy looks to have developed into a good pro, but it took him three seasons to get back into the Premier League, and he plays for Brighton. It's not like he's some world beater that it was obvious we shouldn't have let go.

Ditto Mustafi, to be honest. He asked to leave to get more first team football, and subsequently only made 18 appearances over the next two years at Sampdoria.

Yes, both have turned into good players now. But the margins are small, and it's not like we released a young Franco Baresi in either of them.

Paul Birmingham
108 Posted 16/11/2017 at 18:06:42
Made up... and last season he was very consistent in the U23s, our new version of Harvey or Kendall, good on and off the ball, very good footballer. Size is not an issue with natural ability, look at Alan Ball, Messi, Silva etc.

I think with luck he can become a very good Everton player and he has the tempo and charisma to go with his playing ability.

Like everything in life, as we all do, we need a little bit of luck.

Roger Helm
109 Posted 16/11/2017 at 19:11:36
Why are we forever signing and developing small players? The EPL is full of six-foot athletes built like cruiserweights. It's okay being small if you are as good as Sanchez or Osil or Eden but for years now I have watched Everton teams get bullied off the ball by bigger stronger players. A good big ‘un is better than a good little ‘un!
Peter Gorman
110 Posted 16/11/2017 at 19:18:33
What would be your suggestion Roger? Put Walsh on a course of steroids?

Good player with great attitude. He stands as much chance as any.

Paul Birmingham
111 Posted 16/11/2017 at 20:53:32
Made up and last season, he was very consistent in the U23s, our new version of Harvey or Kendal, good on and off the ball, very good footballer. Size is not an issue with natural ability, look at Alan Ball, Messi, Silva etc.

I think with look he can become a very good EFC player and he has the tempo and charisma to go with his playing ability.

Like everything in life as we all do need, a little bit of luck.

Dave Abrahams
112 Posted 16/11/2017 at 21:05:08
Michael (105), yes I've read your addition to the main story, that Liam was let go because the Birmingham manager said he had a surplus of central midfield players and Walsh wasn't going to get a game ahead of them: It would be interesting to see who these players were.
Colin Metcalfe
113 Posted 16/11/2017 at 21:22:21
Roger, I think it's a case of if your good enough you will make it , there maybe lots of six foot athletes in the premier league but it doesn't necessarily mean they are good footballers.

Far too much emphasis is on pace and power these days but so many lack basic control and skill, I think the most consistent performer this season has been David Silva, all 5ft-7in of him!

Liam Reilly
114 Posted 18/11/2017 at 10:04:46
So Cotterill says that he was sent back "because he wouldn't get into the side ahead of his current midfield".

Well that's working out really well for him in 23rd position in the Championship! Tosser.

I suspect Cotterill is on borrowed time and a new manager may request to bring him back.

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