Everton happy to deny Luton a win

You're faster than a speeding bullet when it comes to getting team news out. Barely a second after the official channel announces it. Good work!

But then I have to go back and correct all the mistakes!

I blame the club website. They do it deliberately to see if I'm paying attention.

Looks right now... they left out Harrison.

[At least I can go back and correct our page; EFC just post the mistake and leave it there for all to see!]

Dyche has picked his strongest team that are available to play, that will please moaning Forest!

The betting is suggesting that theres every chance it ends a draw.

We are on a roll coming into this game so I'm hoping for a win but honestly I havn't a clue what the score might be.

In Limerick's Irish Pub in Calgary for this one, nice civilized 1pm kick off. Last time I watched the Blues here was the 5-1 Brighton away, another one like that would do me!

Thought it was weak from Young on their goal, yes he was fouled but went down too easily for me. He's played pretty well overall though, so have the whole team. Godfrey looks born again.

Reckon we'll win this about 4-1 but I'm already 3 pints deep

Godfrey and Harrison doing nothing going forward or defending, Branthwaite having a stinker, with Pickford glued to his fuckin' line again and putting Luton on the attack with three poor kicks – not to mention the poor passing and weak tackling all over the field.

I can't blame Dyche for any of that but I hope he reacts and makes a couple of changes very quickly.

Luton are poor defensively but we lack pace and creativity. Harrison has had several opportunities to take on his man but it's not his game and he is not up to it. He is putting in a shift but it's not enough.

Doucoure has received the ball in positions where he should be driving forward and then bringing in others but as soon as he gets the ball he gives it to someone else.

McNeil is working hard but protecting Young. This is a game we should win. It has all the hallmarks of a 2-1 loss.

Good job it doesn't really matter too much. Gueye outstanding.

Started with 4 straight defeats, featured a 13 game winless run, had 8 points deducted and yet somehow we are looking forward to two more at the beach dead rubbers.

A 'competitive encounter' if I'm being generous but that second half was a hard watch and the 4-4-2 thing worked for about 45 seconds.

Thank God there's only 2 games left. Let's regroup for next season — we've got to get some quality in the team.

I'd rather see Burnley claw their way out at Luton's and Forest's expense.

Very nearly lost it at the end if it hadn't been for Branthwaite.

We should get rid of both and I like that 30-year-old Luton have. Wonder if he'd fit in the team?

Could have gone either way but Everton's usual frailties on offense helped keep Luton in the game.

However, I cannot see them avoiding the drop now.

Bring on the Blades!!

Yes, I'd much rather see Burnley stay up.

Beto goes down way too easily, he needs to stop that.

Scrappy point – let's hope they play better next two games.

Calvert Lewin was a threat in the first half. Disappointed to see Beto beating his man and then lying down.

I thought Calvert-Lewin did really well without any support at all. Gana Gueye again a good game.

Doucoure was abysmal and has to be one of the clumsiest footballers I've ever seen. I can't believe we relied on him so much when he was injured.

Godfrey, Tarkowski and Branthwaite again played well, Young did okay but was at fault for the goal, easily muscled out by their yard-dog of a striker.

Nice to be able to relax without biting my nails and it was a game I never thought we'd lose.

Beto – I don't expect anything of the lad so I knew what was coming.

Gomes poor – three fouls and a booking.

Coleman – his best days have gone but thanks for the numerous good games you had.

Onana – the quicker we get that £60-£80M (Who am I trying to kid?) the better; for fuck's sake, what does he do?

Chermiti – wasn't too bad. I can see some potential in him but he's got to stop those really stupid fouls though.

Two attempts in the second half, one a deflected shot; a penalty and nothing else in the first half tells a sorry tale of our attacking ability. Dyche got us out of the mess we are in and yet a good percentage of fans don't think much of him.

Gueye was Man of the Match for me even though he had very little competition for that title – apart from those fantastic fans again as they have been all season.

I expected a much better game from Everton tonight than that putrid effort but still appreciate the point we got. Luton didn't deserve more than the one we got and I suppose we could complain that we should have got a couple more penalties to add to the one we got.

We should've battered them – and would've if we'd played passing football.

We still need 3 points against The Blades just in case.

Just going through the motions now we're safe.

Not bad. No complaints.

A poor game where Everton did enough for a point. Luton very disappointing considering they really needed 3 points and Pickford had one of his easiest games.

Luton did not seem to want the 3 points and, apart from a couple of decent passes, Barkley never got into the game. There never seemed to be the same intensity that Everton showed in their fight against relegation.

Still, I got to enjoy my visit last week, and the supporter in the Park End Stand who said I had brought them luck with my visit, and said I should stay — hey, that is 4 games now without a defeat; maybe they will pay my airfare to come back next season?

I would love Burnley to win their remaining games and send Luton and Forest down.

But it's been a very sapping season. Hopefully we beat Sheffield Utd. UTFTs!

Luton are a better playing side than us, never mind a gang of fucking yard dogs. Their attacks were more speedy than ours and more quality, believe it or not.

They were far better than us. We think they're yard dogs but they're not.

Good luck for the future to Luton who have showed the world what can be achieved against the odds.

People referencing our 13-game winless run should also now reference our one defeat in 7.

Some awful performances tonight and some very good defensive ones. My MotM, Branthwaite, got us a penalty and was a defensive colossus.

It's the end of our season with the players getting ready to get their flip-flops on after a seriously long and hard season, mentally and physically.

Barkley was the best player on the park. I don't believe in bringing players back but, if we lose Gomes, Gana and Onana, it may make sense.

We would be in 12th position without the points deductions. We may not be aesthetically satisfied but, over the course of a very trying season, when our aspirations were limited in the extreme, it's a fantastic achievement.

Sheffield Utd is a dead rubber game so maybe it's an opportunity to give the likes of Virginia, Chermiti, Warrington and a few others a start, rest a few for the Arsenal game, and see what the ones named above have to offer, apart from maybe a place higher in the league.

I would use the Sheffield Utd game to see if anyone steps up. We always say we cannot play this or that player, or youngster, thrown in a relegation scrap; no better time than next week when nothing hangs on the result for either team.

It would be nice to win but, at the same time, it would be nice see how Virginia handles the Premier League, or if Warrington can link up with the other midfielders.

It makes sense to play some of them next week.

My only disappointment is we continue to fail to score from open play.

I thought it was good to see Chermiti and Beto get some minutes in a rare 4-4-2.

Reminds me of my school reports — Satisfactory… but can do better.

We are turgid and a horrific watch; we all love them and have no choice, but a casual watcher must absolutely hate watching us try to play football.

Probably the same idiots talking about the Ferguson & Rooney dream management team.

Whoever extended Doucoure to £130k a week needs firing. He's woeful. Not sure how we get him off the books but he needs shifting.

Branthwaite and Gana were our best players but no one really stood out. Harrison actually putting crosses into the box was a novelty.

Dyche made substitutions 10 minutes into the second half and had used all five with 10 minutes left. Guess what? It made no difference to the outcome because we do not have the quality on the bench to change the dynamics of a game.

That isn't to say he was wrong to make the changes but, as fans, we often overestimate the impact substitutes will make.

Without the points deductions, we would be on 45 points which was at the top end of my start-of-season expectation of 40-45 points. I will be delighted if Dyche can repeat that next season with a squad likely to be shorn of at least one of its best players.

I'd rather Luton survived as I could see more decent players coming to us from either / both of the other two, whilst the Luton lot might be more reluctant to come to the North-West.

All contingent on anyone proven with genuine potential wanting to join us, and the club having the resources to tempt them of course.

Imagine if the Six Nations had relegation and Wales and Scotland were relegated and replaced with Romania and Georgia. Would winning the Calcutta Cup in front of 800 disinterested people in Tbilisi feel as meaningful as winning it at Hampden?

I get the logic of making our life easier. But honestly, the likes of Sunderland, Leeds, Sheffield Wednesday, Nottm Forest, even little Burnley have their history and fan base that to me adds an edge to the games.

Luton need away fans to fill a 10,000-seat stadium. Is Luton even a football town? Is it exciting to beat them or just the minimum expectation? Is losing to them another step on a storied history or just a damn annoyance?

Maybe I'm romantic but I tend to gravitate towards teams with history and fanatical support — even as rivals. That's why I prefer Dortmund to Leipzig, Feyenoord to AZ Alkmaar. It's why we more remember the semi v Bayern than the final v Vienna.

It's also why, to me, the 80s Cup Final defeats were more devastating than the one victory v Watford was cause for ecstasy.

Certainly Forest's whining after we beat them didn't endear them to me, despite respecting their history. I must admit I hadn't considered the possibility of poaching relegated players when I posted earlier.

What a blue, driving down there without a ticket.

Luton were poor. They just huffed and puffed without really troubling Pickford.

Terrible, terrible performance.

I thought the team selection lacked any sort of imagination as I thought this might be a good time to try a few others, maybe 2 from 3 in Beto, Chermiti and Dobbin or at least something different or imaginative.

Oh and a memo to the Bootroom or Admin: Blue does not clash with orange or some sort of red and I can't see a great market for washed-out grey shirts.

It wasn't a great game and I wondered who the back and square passing would be blamed on with Onana on the bench. McNeil was denied a penalty for something that didn't look much different to that which got Garner a yellow card.

Then we got a penalty – and if you are not prepared to give those, then there is little hope of stopping the wrestling that goes on at corners.

The equalizer came from Young not holding the line, something which should be instilled in all defenders from U-15s up.

Some of the substitutions didn't seem right as we were crying out for some ideas from midfield and Gomes and Onana looked the right thing. I couldn't see how Harrison stayed on for the whole game, or Doucoure not doing much, and then Gana just when I thought we might have been holding on to the point.

Previously, and based on memory of some performances for us, I thought Barkley on a free might be a good idea — but not on tonight's showing as he didn't show enough to suggest that he would be doing anything with us other than making up the numbers.

Overall, a poor game and easy to see why both aren't challenging for anything other than relegation.

Total dedication.

More details are provided in May Day Trip to Luton…

I thought Harrison and Doucoure were little short of abysmal, but at least the former was seen to be running the channels producing nothing. Doucoure was virtually anonymous again. I know many sing his praises on here but I just don't get it at all.

It was a bit disappointing overall, but another point is better than none. I feel with a couple of different players and a tad more shooting, we could have had all 3 points.

Zero. None. Zip. Nada. Not one fuckin' game.

In fact, in the entire four seasons he has been with us, Doucoure has missed a total of 35 games due to injury or manager's decision. And we have won just two of those 35… That's incredible.

Yeah, sometimes it's hard to define what he contributes. But whatever it is, we cannot win without it. Ever.

A point was a good result.

Different players, but it reminds me of the attitude towards Iwobi. Not everyone's favourite, unpredictable but can win you games.

Get money on him to get the winner at Arsenal!!

Danny, I hope you are right. I had banked (not literally) on a hard fought win last night. I doubt Luton will stay up now but I for one won't miss them, their ground looks like a lower division one too.

Barkley, Chong and Adebayo had purpose, and Doughty threw in some decent crosses (but isn't the answer).

Ross on a free looks like the best option with our finances. Yes, it was gutting what he did for Chelsea. But he's a bloody good footballer, and we need players that can play.

You think that Doucoure had an outstanding or good game against Luton?

And of those 35 games Mike mentioned — who else was missing or played only those games? And how many did Doucoure play in our record 13-game run without a win?

He must have a cupboard full of medals at home then.

Sadly, the squad is largely made up of players who are either slow and/or unable to pass or shoot. It's something of a miracle that we have survived. All the speculation is that we will lose one or two of our best players meaning, as we all know, next season will be yet another mammoth struggle.

Broadband issues meant I had to watch last night's game on a laptop. A draw looked a fair result, lots of effort from our players, but Barkley looked the best and most effective player on the pitch.

Our financial problem has forced us to sell most players who contribute goals and assists – Richarlison, Iwobi, Gordon – so we should retain Doucoure until we are in the position to sign a better midfielder who can contribute in attack.

I actually thought Chong was far and away the best player on the pitch and you could tell how frustrated he was getting towards the end with his team mates not being able to convert the chances he was creating. I wonder where he'll be playing next season? Not for Luton in the championship I imagine...

On the subject of Barkley, though: yes, he had a pretty good game and has had a very good season overall.

Million-dollar question – would we / should we have him back? (Assuming he would come, of course!)

He would certainly improve our squad (not hard) but is there too much bad blood for that to happen?

The only thing that matters is how many sprouts you get in the bag. That's it. Last season, Doucoure finally found his shooting boots to actually make us effective. Lose that ability to finish and he offers nothing.

Flash in the pan, etc. That's all he is… all we are.

Next season, I'd like to see less reliance on stats and focus on the only one that matters – actual goals.

"The boys done well" — it's "the boys who have done well" or "the boys did well". Apologies for other posters but I can't take seriously anyone who posts like they are Joe Cole or Rio Ferdinand.

I would rather we went for him rather than Barkley.

We scored 3 from open play recently. 2 against Forest and 1 against Brentford, we should have had at least another 2 more against Liverpool and even a lot of their own fans said that.

Does it really matter how we score as long as we do?

Don't really get where you're coming from…

Million-dollar question too, what will happen with Cheech? :-)

It's yet another thing about the modern game… well, the way money has taken it over, that I detest. Marketing away kits, and further fleecing fans, is perfectly acceptable it seems, despite there being no colour clash on numerous occasions I've seen, and to hell with tradition.

Wolves frequently play in an 'away" kit, yet there's no other team in the Premier League that play in gold (or yellow)!

Well I ended up really frustrated again, I thought Dyche would have maybe tried something new perhaps? but no, the same old setup, players, I won't go as far as to say a style of play.

Luton though did their basic homework and there's nothing suprising about the way we set up. It was dreadful lets be honest, take out Brainthwaite for Keane/Godfrey and ask yourself we're would we be. We ain't outscoring many teams.

It's a shame I don't think we learned anything new about the squad yesterday, these last few games are surely a time to do that:-

-Chermiti looks like a very useful player and should have been used many times earlier.

-Can't see why Dobbin can't get a run out for the shattered Harrison or McNeal.

-Not using Danjuma at all now is obviously personal, takes a strange man to stink a loan signings career sat in the bench and put Michael Keane on ahead of him.

-Would have been nice to see Hunt at left back instead of Young. The young lad has travelled with us most of the season, when else is he going to get some time?

- looks like he's a very very competent premier league striker, and we know what he can do when given service.

-I'd keep Harrison if we could, didn't have the best game but a useful player who puts in a lot of effort and sparks of quality.

-And finally Doucoure, Dyche's poster boy. Stunk the gaff out all season, breaks up every attack, his second touch is a foul and is in general a liability. Lampard was right to to get him out of the side to play how he wanted, Dyche builds a team around him. Not going anywhere with him in the side and Sean in the dugout.

But the most important problem now is our very existence, we have an owner who believes he has sold the club back in September to 777 and is not interested in putting in anymore of his money into the club. We have no board to speak of and I cant see 777 pumping anymore money into the club beyond this month. So administration looks the most likely outcome unless the Premier league give 777 the go ahead which seems unlikely seeing they have been trying to convince the Premier league of their suitability since last September. I don't believe their is a mystery buyer in the wings we owe nearly £600m to Media &Rights, 777 and MSP. There is still funds needed to complete the stadium and the club is valued at between £450 to £600m.

Our fans have held marches telling anybody who would listen our club was being poorly run and now those pundits and journalists who questioned "what do these fans want" they have an owner who has pumped in millions and is building a new stadium. But I don't hear the same pundits and journalists apologizing to the fans who were right all along.

Surely Dyche must have seen his impact on the Luton side, often with no response from his team-mates!

If we had the above, we would not have to rely on the long ball all the time.

We definitely need pace, John, and we also need more craft, because without both of these things, people are going to be blaming the manager, for having us playing awful-on-the-eye football.

Christy below, I'd have been calling for Doucoure to be played out wide, for a while now, especially when I watch Harrison getting bullied and shoved off the ball. Just let him run up and down using his strength and energy.

I couldn't understand why Dyche brought on two strikers, Beto and Chermiti, after 80 minutes and substituted Calvert-Lewin – why not bring on a striker way earlier to support Dom, instead of leaving him isolated on his own for so long?

I thought he might have given Danjuma a run, he was impressive when he came on at Spurs. His pace could have caused them problems. Harrison wasn't offering anything.

One of Doucoure's strengths is his stamina but now, into his 30s, you've got to wonder how long he'll be able to run box to box.

However, he's on £130k per with one year left. I can't see another club offering money like that so see him leaving on a free next summer. Maybe to Saudi for one last big payday.

We already got loads of midfielders leaving this summer so need fresh legs badly in the middle.

We all know we need quality in the final 3rd. This season we have created loads of chances but not converted. Dyche and Thelwell aren't stupid, it will be an interesting summer.

Chermiti looks like he has developed physically from the start of the season. Hopefully he can be used more next season.

Without giving Dyche or Duke a free pass I think we all agree, maybe not, that Dyche has implemented this particular squad's best point production. TW offered many variations that were ultimately tested, few of those had even moments of justified application.

Like it or not, Doucoure has been pivotal in our success in securing points. That Dyche figured out the puzzle of what could work can be another argument. We are stuck with a paradox. Could some other better dressed manager have identified another style and setup that would have overcome the pressure and give us results? And would Doucoure be in that setup and at what position?

Rather than layout some bloated blah blah about how Doucoure is essential to our pressing, I will come back later with some specifics on Doucoure's contributions and how he could not workout as a traditional midfielder in the PL, not even Carlo could cover the shortcomings. Yet, the stats don't lie, he has been instrumental in our point producing performances.

Dyche is very happy for us to play with around 20 or 30% possession because a lot of our chances come from turnovers or counters. And that's where Doucoure comes in useful.

He's a good fit for Dyche's style and sadly players who run that much, press that hard, and can also pass it silkily cost you more money than we have.

Barkley would be an upgrade on the ball, but what's the point when we so seldom have it?

He will be needed next season as the talent coming into the club will not exceed that which will be exiting over the summer.

I guess we have other areas to sort out, FBs being a real problem, and with limited funds it’ll be what needs fixing most urgently. FBs and centre mid is worrying given injuries and the players coming to the end of contracts.

But he isn't alone, we have a few earning above £100,000 per week and some aren't even regulars in the team.

To not beat Luton over 3 games is a disgrace. But that's where we are thanks to Moshiri and Kenwright.

I'd take a couple of the Luton players on a free. Their work rate and commitment was second to none.

I stopped watching during the second half and went on GTA. It was too painful to watch, regardless of being safe.

Big changes are somehow needed in the summer with a few coppers down the back of Goodison couch. Will the Arteta money still be stashed away?

Find us a gem, Dyche! We need pace and not 37-year-olds.

Are we all just mugs for putting up with this shit?

Do we not have another hobby which can take our minds off the great game?

Nah, it just keeps getting stronger the more we struggle and we have that backs-to-the-wall mentality but very little flare to brighten our days up. Everton is up there when it comes to disappointments but can you even put yourselves in the shoes of a Luton fan? That must be grim!

We are bang average right now and on the precipice of existence due to the absurd money involved in this sport and an irresponsible owner.

Doucouré on £130,000 a week makes me want to spew because he obviously missed the training sessions about ball control and passing. I was crap but better than him at football! He's not alone either because the Premier League is full of them.

However, being a Blue and all that shit, I want us to survive of course and hopefully win some trophies at our new home down the Dock Road.

Slightly related to the other thread but I want the city to become ours again. It might not mean a lot to outsiders but I want the Liver Bird on our badge. It's a Liverpool City thing and we need it to give us recognition and do their heads in.

Regardless of my lovely brother and sister supporting the dark side, I know they are part of the City's history but we were equally as important and will have our time again for sure.

All we need is somebody who understands football to buy us out. That rules out 777 Partners.

Then on Monday Forest get one or two points back from the appeal and go back above Burnley, this is the possible scenario the Premier league have created for themselves, chances of it happening are slim but possible.

As Evertonians that have been put through everything this season, how nice it feels watching from the otherside of the fence, looking in and waiting for the above scenario to hit the Premier league right in the face, and knowing for once, its not Evertons doing in the Premier leagues eye.

But tactics can't overcome the disadvantage of crap players. It isn't tactics that are holding Everton back. It's crap players.

If we finish higher than 15th this season (ignoring the points deduction) we will have outperformed the quality of the squad.

If Dyche's first XI could boast players from our recent past like Barry, Richarlison, Gordon and Sigurdsson as well as prime Coleman at Right Back - then I think we'd have been pushing very hard for Europe this season. And because of the quality we would have better possession stats too. And we'd have witnessed some good football too.

Athletico Madrid haven't achieved their relative success just because of tactics. The first team has been supplied high quality players from an excellent youth set up as well as a long track record of scouting in South America (and elsewhere). Over the period of success their players have been very high quality - just not quite as good (generally) as Barca and Real.

In serie A it’s Allegri’s Juventus who might compare and are 12th for possession but 3rd in the league.

It’s worth saying though that Valencia have an average of 43% and Juventus of 48% whereas Everton are actually under 40%!

It’s a philosophy that Dyche can and has made work but better players to exploit opportunities and perhaps control matches when we are ahead would really help.

I'd rather have a relegated half-decent Premier League player than some greenhorn from League Two or from some far-flung place with no Premier League experience.

Though our financials may dictate where we buy…

We score the vast majority of our goals from set pieces and struggle to score from open play.

That is a fact despite a couple of recent goals from open play.

We cannot survive nor prosper on continuing to rely on set pieces for goals as teams are beginning to cotton on to our tactics.

“Maybe I'm romantic but I tend to gravitate towards teams with history and fanatical support — even as rivals. That's why I prefer Dortmund to Leipzig, Feyenoord to AZ Alkmaar. It's why we more remember the semi v Bayern than the final v Vienna.”

It seems we are diametrically opposed. I'm for meritocracy and history and diehard fans don't impress me enough to champion other clubs.

If Bayern had been a spent force and Vienna rated above them, then I don't think the semi-final victory would be as celebrated. Bayern were big favourites and seemed arrogant about it too. Them going ahead before being outclassed and overrun just added to the drama and excitement of the night.

At the moment, Forest and Burnley are just minnows so are just like Luton to me. If failure of a particular team yields more benefit for Everton, especially at such a precarious time, then that is what matters to me.

“We cannot survive nor prosper on continuing to rely on set-pieces for goals as teams are beginning to cotton on to our tactics.”

Surely that depends on how well the set-pieces are executed?

Likewise our defence is statistically Top 6, which is incredible for a team that pretty much plays without the ball.

If you were going to predict any kind of worthwhile improvement, it probably wouldn't come from those areas. Regression is far more likely.

So why is the lauded pragmatist playing those tactics with players who can't do it?

I don't believe Dyche was ever playing a counter attacking strategy. He'd be mad to with the players at his disposal and he's certainly not dumb. We were parking the bus with the knowledge that we've probably got enough half decent players that we'll get enough points to fend off the relegation teams. We pay our first team squad more than twice the amount that the bottom three do. Work hard, be disciplined, keep it tight and play the odds. It was always likely to be enough.

And that sums up the season. Enough.

My take is that no sporting team, business or individual improves by doing enough. It's a downwards spiral. That's why a guy who has made a career out of keeping his team in the hunt (he does it very well, I might add) doesn't have a place at Everton unless the mission is simply to do enough.

Nil Satis Nisi Satis.

The Italian dinosaur does it again.

He seems to have skill and pace and the only question might be how he performs if played on the wrong wing but he looked good on Luton's left. Anybody watched him over several games this season?

Many cite he's only been successful because of the players he's had at his disposal.

There is an argument, but he started off with a little known club called Reggiana and then Parma, before going onto greater things, because he earned recognition.

Top coach and manager. There were many critical of his time at Everton. All opinions. He tried to improve it and gave us a win at Anfield.

Sadly we didn't get to see that.

We could label the tag of "can only work with good players" at Klopp and Pep.

You can only work with tools you have, but those three managers put themselves in the position to do so and work with the best players by earning their stripes.

Well done, Carlo.

I ask because his football has been no different from what Don Carlo mostly offered. Even though the Italian master had some better footballers, most of his best results came when he played a very rigid back four and we let the opposition have the ball.

And he deserves extra credit for the shit show cards he was dealt with. He's just got on with the job.

I agree with the comments on Ancelotti. He realised after a while how he had to play as the season went on. Many say we finished 10th, but we were one game from European qualification on the last day. It just happened we were playing Manchester City!

Back to Dyche. Without the points deduction, he will have us on over 50 points come the end of the season.

I'd like to see him get more playing time next season.

Real Madrid have won it 35 times now.

How about Carlo’s 4 Champions League wins? Do they count as an achievement?

Maybe if he wins it again this season he might get some credit.

I am always amazed how some of our fans can be so down on Ancelotti, as his record shows he is the best manager ever. Guardiola and Mourhino don't even come close to what Ancelotti has achieved in the game.

I have heard the nonsense about he can only do it with good players, and as you rightly point out he started with Reggiana and Parma.

Tony, I admire your defence of Dyche but to suggest he could play better football with better players is very doubtful. Also, you infer that Carlo had better players; well, certainly James Rodriguez was a step up on anything we have seen for a number of years and his other buy was Allan. But if you look at his teams, he had a back 4 consisting of Keane, Holgate and Godfrey for many games.

He had us 2nd in the league at Xmas, and had he (like Dyche) not been told a pack of lies by Usmanov and Moshiri, he may still have been here. And had he stayed and been given a half-decent transfer kitty, we would be playing European football on a regular basis.

I think it's worth reminding everybody that Ancelotti has won 26 trophies, including 4 Champions Leagues – the only manager to achieve that – and it could be 5 very shortly.

Also, the only manager to win 5 league trophies in all the major European leagues. As I say, the greatest ever, yet all we hear is Guardiola is the greatest but he doesn't even come close to what Carlo achieved.

Also, despite Guardiola managing supposedly the best team in Europe, wasn't it Carlo's team who knocked them out of the Champions League this season?

I will always be grateful to say he managed Everton – as unrealistic as that sounds, it actually happened. But, being Everton, we allowed the greatest ever to walk away.

We have had second-rate no-marks in charge since.

I have read recently that Michel Brands did everything in his power to bring Mikel Arteta to the club as manager when he was leaving Man City. How different things might have been had he succeeded...

My most memorable moment of Carlo was the pulsating cup match against Tottenham. All of us on the edges of our coaches going mad as well as those on the bench.

He calmly blew the heat off his coffee and took a sip!!

Ancelotti has had the bullet now and again, at Goodison, once by Chelsea, didn't Real Madrid let him go once. Has he ever won the European Cup with a club that were not well off? – like Murinho did with his Portuguese club – now that was something to boast about.

Who was the manager of a famous Italian club who were winning 3-0 in a European Cup Final and lost the game to bleedin' Liverpool?

The bottom line Steve is he wasn't a success at Everton no matter how you ( not you personally ) dress it up yet people make excuses for him but deride other managers, like Dyche, who have worked under worse conditions than the man “ Didn't have a magic wand” but still wasted plenty of money and walked away with plenty and a load more for his apprentice son then sued them for another bagful.

Ancelotti has had the bullet now and again, at Goodison once by Chelsea, didn't Real Madrid let him go once, has he ever won the European Cup with a club that were not well off like Murinho did with his Portuguese club, now that was something to boast about.

Who was the manager of a famous Italian club who were winning 3-0 in a European Cup final and lost the game,to bleedin' Liverpool?

The bottom line, Steve, is he wasn't a success at Everton – no matter how you (not you personally) dress it up. Yet people make excuses for him but deride other managers, like Dyche, who have worked under worse conditions.

The man said he “didn't have a magic wand” but still wasted plenty of money and walked away with plenty and a load more for his apprentice son and then sued them for another bagful.

Nobody said he was stupid, like all the managers since and before, he was promised much and was given little. To the point he knew it was not going to work.

In his time, Everton Football Club became known and respected the world over. The marketing was spectacular in Latin America, we were on the up... but injuries to the threadbare squad, no ability to build a team, and the icing on the cake, the home break-in.

So, you don't like James, or Allan or a non-existent list of "Hollywood stars" but I liked 2nd in the Premier League, I liked the fact we went to Anfield and beat them, I liked the fact that we were spoken of with respect, and I liked that he brought out the best in players, something no one since has managed to do. Not even Dyche. (If he had, we would not have had 14 games without a win...)

We can split hairs over anything you like but not the quality of the man. Respect. Probably the best manager there has ever been in the game. And we had him and fucked it up.

And I am sure there will be a line of people waiting to have a pop, but go ahead, that's okay... We are where we are, good luck to him and well done. I wish it were us.

That day is done.

Dyche has done the job in hand and done it well. In spite of the crap. The right man for the job at this point in time under different circumstances. Onwards and upwards.

Dave, I look forward to debating this with you at the Bramley Moore, it might be a three-pint problem...

James Rodriguez – Free Transfer (not the alleged £25M)
Allan – £25M
Branthwaite – £1M
Niels Nkounkou - Free
Doucoure – £20M
Ben Godfrey – £20M
Joshua King – 6 month contract.

3 of the above are still playing for the current 1st team and would certainly recoup much more than the total outlay of his tenure.

Indeed we are likely to recoup £100M plus if we had to sell them all...

You are right with the list of players that were signed when Ancelotti was manager, but Doucoure says the first time he met Carlo was at the Titanic Hotel along with Godfrey and James and Allan were there. He said Carlo admitted he hadnt seen either play so I think we can assume that the 2 Carlo signed was James and Allan the rest must be Brands signings.

I also liked the fact he lived on Merseyside and spoke well of the area. I don't remember any of our other managers living in the region.

As for money playing a big part of what a manager can achieve is very important. Harry Catterick had more money to spend than any other manager but still didn't ever manage to win the European Cup.

In fact they lost to a then unknown Greek side, Panathinaikos, managed by Puskas. So having money doesn't always guarantee success.

Carlo might have been the manager when Branthwaite joined the club I doubt very much he had anything to do with the signing, same as whoever was manager when Calvert-Lewin signed.

Not sure Carlo brought out the best in Allan who was a good little player bought too late but injuries and age saw that we never got a good deal from him.

As for the Columbian good time boy, Carlo couldn't even get him out of bed at the end of his time here, just shrugged his shoulders when asked about his alleged injury.

That can all wait and we won't have any problems in the Bramley Moore – I've got too much sense to argue with a lady, especially one from Liverpool, more especially one from Scottie Road – as Johnie Cairns (Jackie Hamilton) used to say “I'd rather argue with a Terrorist than a lady from Liverpool – you can negotiate with a Terrorist!

We had the advantage of interest free loans off John Moore’s, which helped to a degree but Catterick was a shrew operator and he nipped in and stole Alex Scott right out of Spurs hands, kidded Shankley twice over Morrissey and Kendall, did the same to Don Revie over Alan Ball, although he did make mistakes but all in all he was a great manager and lost hopes health in the cause of Everton.

As for that team from Greece we absolutely battered them at Goodison but only a last minute equaliser got us the draw and when we got to Greece I think the referee took care of that game, Harry was a sick man at that stage and couldn’t attend the semi final v Liverpool three days after that Greek Tragedy.

Money counts Brian but how you use it counts for more and look at Kenwright he never put a penny into Everton made over £40M with more to come for his dependants and helped to nearly destroy this great club of ours but some people still defend him.

He must have pissed on Dave's chips at some point for such one-eyed malevolence. And them both being good god-fearing Catholic lads too. Really shocking.

I remember we were in a real tough relegation battle and he posted a picture of himself on his private jet going to the World Cup and we were supposed to feel sorry for him.

Me and my best mate used to argue about Kevin Sheedy.
For me, he could walk across a puddle without getting his feet wet. For him he was lazy and didn't work hard enough!

Around that era, slightly later, he loved Norman Whiteside: "Big Norm".

Off track, he went to get an Everton tattoo. He wanted the crest but almost started crying instantly. He just ended up with a simple EFC on his right arm!

As for him being a good God fearing Catholic lad, Jesus, who you don't bleedin' believe in or even that he existed said “ It's easier for a camel to get through the eye of a needle than it is for a rich man to get into Heaven”.

Carlo is brewstered so even being a Catholic and an unbelievable, brilliant never been one before like him manager he's going to have to perform all his genius to get into Heaven. While me a poor down to Earth Scouser with a heart of gold has got a better chance than Sly Boots!

By the way Michael are you doing anything to improve the quality of the working of ToffeeWeb like I asked on another thread? That is apart from getting rid of me!!

A Carlo Ancelotti type player, who wins trophies. Not a Sean Dyche type player, who is lucky to win a game.

In his one full season in charge, he took us to within one game of Europe on the final day. We were second in the league until injuries and form intervened. As Christine points out, he also did not spend a huge amount of money on transfers.

By the end of the season, he would have realised that the board was atrocious, the club dysfunctional, he had been lied to when taking the job and that the club was broke. So he left, and I don't blame him. Everything we now know about the running of the club would have been clearly evident to him at the time.

Also, he certainly knows how to beat Liverpool (and Klopp). He lost the Champions League to the shite in 2005? He also beat them to win the Champions League finals in 2006 and 2022

Also, I am not sure it is correct that those who praise Ancelotti criticise Dyche - I certainly don't. They were both practical managers who like to play 4-4-2. They also both recognise the importance of a solid defence.

One thing that Sean could learn from Ancelotti is not to be stubborn in changing formation or tactics. Carlo has never been afraid to change things, as he did with Real Madrid this season moving Bellingham to a deeper role in midfield despite his free-scoring start to the season. 22 goals conceded by Real Madrid in 34 league games says he was right.

My sister is very concerned about me, but I keep telling her, I've been like this all of my life with Everton!!

You can pass on your words of wisdom as always.

Then it's onto Arsenal away. Who knows what will happen, but the team has done all it could do.

Take care Dave and speak soon.

I agree with a lot of what you say but you also make points that overstate what he did at Everton,
eg - He got them to second place? For how long? A week? Two weeks?

In a season of over 8 months, he won at Anfield - yes - we were one of six clubs that Liverpool failed to beat at Anfield at that time, maybe we played them at the right time, I think, not sure.

We lost ten home league games that season although we won as many away,- some of them playing backs-to-the-wall football that Dyche is derided for, not by you or me.

For such a clever man why didn't he realise what was going on with the club and them changing managers every season? Plenty of fans were wise with what was wrong with the club and were not slow in letting the people running it know about it.

By the way, without the points deductions we wouldn't have been far away from being 10th this season and I think those deductions had a lot to do with that poor run of form.

Yes, I'll try and get to the Harlech or somewhere else after the game, not the Brambley Moor, see what your travel arrangements are like.

As for your sister worrying about you, when you love someone you really care about them as well so I understand her position, we'll have a good natter on Saturday, see you then, take care you're worth worrying about Danny.

Ancelloti was a team builder of a good team into a top class trophy winning team, but the problem at Everton was he had a reasonable base to start with but no financial backing to bring in players of the standard he wanted to improve it.

I always wondered how long Real Madrid had been talking to him before he left as I don't believe there is any manager in football that would turn them down.

The biggest regret during his short period at Everton was the Covid Pandemic restricted the live games to TV, and that to me doesn't show the whole game, as they just follow the ball, and the coverage today is a lot better than then.

More broadly, players like Cullen and Chong etc are okay - but for us to improve as a club we need players of the quality of Son, Kulusevski and Richarlison at Spurs - or Diaby, Bailey and McGinn at Villa.

That means signing young players of high potential and developing them

- Kulusevski cost £3.5m

- Son cost Hamburg nothing and cost Leverkusen £11m

- Richarlison cost Watford £11m

- Bailey cost Leverkusen £15m

- Diaby cost Leverkusen £13m

- McGinn cost Villa £3m

All of these players (and many more) have been available for a fraction of the price of established Premier League players.

Interesting that Leverkusen get a repeated mention here. They have been playing the player development game for a good while now and it has certainly paid dividends this season - with an extremely talented side winning the title.

He was manager of Napoli until 10 December and hired as Everton manager on 21 December, so he hardly had time for a forensic examination of the club's financial accounts given the Premier League only charged us this season. He made the mistake of believing what was being sold to him, as did Sean by the way.

I am supporter of Sean Dyche but he has gathered 45 points to the 59 Ancelotti earned despite the home form in the 20/21 season. By the way, Dyche has played a blinder to get that points total with this squad and in these circumstances.

It is also a bit partial to rationalise away the Derby win at Anfield? Played them at the right time indeed! When we beat the shite, we are never lucky. Luck is only involved unless we lose.

As some have said, he managed us to second. Problem is, he also presided over a lousy second half of the season that left us in tenth place. Which does, you know, kind of erase the early season results. That's how a league season works.

The guy ran the first chance he had, and then sued us. Having (likely) initiated his move away from the club. He did an okay job with an okay squad. But then, so did the much-maligned Sam Allardyce (and no, I'm not comparing the two in ability).

Okay, I just caught that last paragraph (doing laundry). We don't know if Carlo had circumstances that justify his actions outside of the burglary. He has been investigated for tax reporting irregularities but beyond that has had as unassailable tenure at the top as anyone in the game.

Why did Carlo leave Naples? I honestly didn't know where he came from when he came to us.

I was happy when he came… then just as happy when he went – but I had a lower opinion of him.

Beto and Chermitti to start upfront together, keep McNeil wide left, bring back Danjuma and play him wide right with Gana and Harrison in the middle... and just go for goals against an already relegated team, eh, Dyche!

It might just bode well for next season too. Just be braver and take the handbrake off the players, for fuck's sake!

My point was / is that being able to rely on set-pieces always yielding a good number of goals is in no way a bad thing (nor will it automatically fail because the opposition know it is in your armoury), but I've not said relying on it ‘exclusively' is a good thing (which is what you have inferred).

You've been posting some really good stuff recently but, for the life of me. I don't understand you using Dyche to make a case for Ancelotti.

Carlo failed to get us into Europe in a season where nine clubs made a better fist of it. He had a Top 5 squad, including Richarlison, James, Coleman, Allan, Gordon, Mina, Pickford, Digne and a free-scoring Calvert-Lewin. All very good players, but Carlo was used to the silver spoon.

Dyche may only have gathered 45 points but there is still 6 points left to play for, so he could get closer to Carlo with a shadow of the team at his disposal and under infinitely more pressure.

While Ancelotti was earning a million a month and could bring in players on big contracts, Dyche earns a quarter of that and has to look for players who will play for chicken feed in comparison.

Carlo Ancelotti is a top class manager, but he did nothing for Everton. Praising his efforts as an Everton manager is a bit like singing Phil Neville superstar.

No comparison between the two managers, but I think Dyche has done a vastly superior job for our club.

Do you think could you elaborate on your opinion of why Dyche couldn't play better football if he had better players?

Ancelotti had much better footballers in his squad and, other than the first few matches of his only full season, he got his best results playing a very rigid system. It's obvious Carlo, has been one of the most successful managers of the last 20 to 25 seasons but he still played football that was mostly unpleasant on the eye whilst he was at Everton, so there must have been a reason for this?

Maybe it was to protect the back four, who were not very good on paper? Whereas Dyche has been lucky with his central defensive pairing and has used them very effectively, possibly because his squad lacked genuine pace and had very little craft.

I'm not even defending Dyche – I am just asking a question because he has kept a few very limited teams in the Premier League over the years, whilst possibly having the lowest budget in the league, every season he has done this.

He finished 10th, Big Sam finished 8th. Without the points deduction, Dyche would be finishing close to 10th!

Benitez may have called us a "small club" but Carlo put it in his contract with his "opt-out" clause. Has any other manager ever insisted on that?

We currently rely on set piece goals, as Jay said. That means we depend on them, and our survival depended on them.

I am proposing to not get so het up about relegation etc. We have the new stadium, they are not likely to deduct more than 6 points for paying the tea ladies too much. So it would be interesting to see the ins and outs.

If I were a young, cocky striker out of the reckoning for the Sky big 4 (big 2 really. Both from Manchester) I'd look at the number of chances we create and wonder about a tilt with Everton.

Mind you, as a young man, I would have cut my left ball off with a broken beer bottle to play for Everton.

But just Imagine then what he could have achieved if Ancelotti had any money to actual spend – like Koeman who in his tenure spent around £200M bringing in 17 players... (laid the foundation for where we are today and every manager after him).

Moshiri and Kenwright promised much and didn't deliver. Ancelotti walked and frankly I can't blame him. That lies with the first two.

Carlo insisted on a "walk out" clause in his contract. nothing to do with Moshiri or Kenwright.

He was always leaving.

All we do know is that, because of Kenwright and Moshiri, we are on the brink of administration, decisions made, loans taken, financial incompetence and deceit. I don't blame Ancelotti for a bloody thing.

At that time, I thought the options were along the lines of:

- Ancelotti if we were going to back him financially, because there is no limit to what Ancelotti can achieve with money.

- Genesio (then coach of Lyon, having brought through a load of youngsters at different French clubs) if we were going to go down the academy / player development route

- Dyche, if the money had run out.

In retrospect, it is a shame we didn't hold our nose and appoint Dyche instead of Ancelotti - and start spending sensibly instead of sinking yet more money we didn't have into yet more deteriorating assets like Allan, Doucoure and Rodriguez.

Mind you, I expect fans would be complaining like mad that dinosaur Dyche was only able to get us to around 6th with a side assembled on a shoestring that might still include Gordon and Richarlison and wouldn't now need to sell Branthwaite to survive.

Would anyone with a braincell in their heads bring in one of the best managers in the world and allow them to put a clause in their contract which would let them to leave for nothing once a Champions League side showed interest?

The lack of footballing wisdom that Moshiri brought with him into Everton has been truly staggering and with Kenwright doing what he did best, playing him and constantly brushing his ego, this was truly a match made in hell.

As Brendan (161) has pointed out, Carlo already had it in his contract he could move if a top club came in for him.

I had pointed this out weeks ago that he knew he was leaving even before he got here, truth is he used us and made a pile doing so.

Lyndon/ Michael. My posts are still trickling in and out and my stammer is getting worse along with my strained wrist. Come on, lads, help a poor old-aged pensioner – it‘s not doing me any good. I've got the doctor coming out later to check me out, my wife thinks I'm losing it!

Imagine we got new owners tomorrow and they brought in Guardiola on the same terms. Surely most sensible people would be outraged, because logic tells us that it wouldn't be long before a Champions League club came in for Pep, just like they were always going to come in for Carlo Ancelotti.

Lyndon won't but I'm sure Michael will (he would if it was me 😂) tell him to Fuck Off!

Michael will do his best for me, I'm positive of that, won't you Michael?
Michael?
Michael?
Michael ?

As it happened, it was he who contacted them initially because, undoubtedly he knew he had a get out of jail clause and was testing the water. Stupid clause allowed by stupid people.

I don't think any of us realised Carlo had this clause in his contract until he went. Daft owners and dafter people left in charge of running the club and sly boots acting like he loved it here at the same time. I wouldn't be surprised if that burglary was a set-up!

That's what I've said to you, Christine “I wish you had been in charge of the club” loads of times.

Would that clause have got past you, Christine? I bet you would have given that break-in at Carlo's house a good looking over as well. I bet he made a few pounds on the insurance claim as well, broken into or not!

He is also a winner and we didn't see many of those at Everton in the last 30 years.

Anyway, onwards with Sean.

The question of why a top player, top club manager was tipping up here just didn't make sense, We needed ground works and foundations not French polishing and a lick of paint.

In retrospect, he knew Madrid would always have him back so Everton was a lucrative staging post and it is this realisation that has pissed people off.

His honeymoon period was great... then reality set in as results went down the pan and the call to Madrid went out. I like him because he has LFC by the throat and he's ruthless and did scam us.

Sometimes a shrug of the shoulders and raised eyebrows means you have been found out!!

I'm with you all the way. Carlo was God and, if we could have backed him financially, he would have made it happen.

Dom was banging them in cos he had Sigurdsson, Digne and James delivering quality from all areas of the pitch. James is arguably the most talented player to put on the blue shirt and it meant a lot to me and like others I regret not seeing him live.

We go again but let's not dis 2 legends of the game who gave it a crack at our club in difficult times.

The greatest player we never got to watch. For me you know it's the obvious. Kevin Sheedy. Let's not forget Rooney.

For some of my cousins, they talk about Bob Latchford and Duncan MacKenzie who I just caught.

I'm sure the 60s generation, and maybe those who remember earlier, will have opinions on players I never watched.

We could go on all day.

But as they say. When Saturday comes.

On to the next one and three more points.

It is not "interesting".

Ask Lyndon and Michael for a continuous 24/7 rolling thread so that you can "debate" all day long.

Thing is, Danny, I've read hundreds of times that Sheedy is your favourite player – mine too – and this is not "interesting" because it is not new or "interesting" and I know off by heart now the top players of more than a few on here.

Maybe we need a strict agenda per topic and any deviants struck off Kim Jon style.

Sheedy was my favourite player too. Perhaps we could form a Sheeds Appreciation Society?

Sorry to sound so brusque, Terry, and it's hardly North Korea – it is in fact ToffeeWeb protocol.