Column Real Supporters ? What Are They? Tony Marsh 09/10/2007 82comments | Jump to last Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the new put down from the Moyes Minions? If anyone dares to have a pop at Darling Dave they are being told they are not real supporters.I am getting this crap every time I submit a post or a comment. One of the main culprits is Connor Roher and the other is Butch Wafer or what ever his name is .What I want to know is what makes you a real supporter? Not liking Moyes or his football seems to disqualify you from being a real fan apparently. I support Everton FC not David Moyes and Alan Irvine.The club will still be here long after these two frauds have done one.I have always said our fans are the best in the country and have followed the club through thick and thin for years .Now though it appears that some of us are not real. I went to my first Everton game in 1970 with my Old Man when I was 7 years old.A few years later I was going with my mates in the old boys pen in the St End.My first away game with out adults was in 1976 when I hitch hiked to Wolves with a mate of mine at 7.00am one Saturday morning.We had about 20p each and it was 75p to get in to th old South Bank at Molnyuex. We ended up bunking in and got home about 10.00pm later that night. Hitch hiking to matches while still at school was a buzz but years later when I had a few quid it was the train that got you to the away games. Back in those days (1980s) away games to the likes Chelsea, West Ham, Leeds and Man Utd by train were almost like going in to battle. At anytime anywhere you could come under attack and belive me a lot of our fans swerved these matches for thier own saftey. I loved them and so did many others. None of this cosy drinknig in pubs and cctv escorts. Real scarey back then! During one period of the 1980s I remember a group of us never missed a game home or away for 3 seasons inlcuding the Cup Winners Cup away ties in 1984-85 season. Years later, some of us were lucky enough to travel to Iceland with Joe Royle and the players on the same plane. Although it was £8 for a bevy and a tenner for a McDonalds we had fine time. The past 12 years I have had 2 season ticket for either the Joe Mercer or the Alex Young suites and the past couple of seasons these have cost £2 grand a pop. Throw in some away games on top and the bill starts to mount up. So please tell me you are joking when you say I am not an Evertonian or a true supporter. I have given a big part of my life and my savings watching this club and now because I don't like the way we play the game me and others are having our credentials as Evertonians questioned. The David Moyes brand of football is as outdated as a Three Star Jumper with leather patches on the elbows and I hate it. If this makes me not areal fan then so be it. I want more from this side and I reckon our fans deserve better for all thier efforts. IMHO its the supporters who still back Moyes who are doing the real damage to the club.With out you this uselss jock would be long gone. Reader Comments Note: the following content is not moderated or vetted by the site owners at the time of submission. Comments are the responsibility of the poster. Disclaimer Michael Kenrick 1 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:19:56 Report abuse It’s a good point, Tony, and it saddens me deeply that you feel the need to cite your Everton credentials in order to counter such inanities. If people can’t stop writing crap like this, including recommedations to support other teams, or references to fans being/not being the manager, we’ll be forced to take action. I want to see reasonably civilzed discussion and debate on here, please folks. And that means opinions about Everton, not about other fans whose opinions you don’t like.And if you can’t draw that distinction, then it means you probably shouldn’t be sharing your opinion on here. Thanks in advance! Al Dugan 2 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:22:10 Report abuse Truthfully, Tony, I don?t care how much you have spent in the past couple of years on your ?beloved? club. You constant slagging of the manger, players, tactics, manager, players, tactics, chairman is so repetitive that it gets boring. I have asked you a number of times to prove your knowledge of the game. And all you answer with is like above...let me quote "The David Moyes brand of football is as outdated as a Three Star Jumper with leather patches on the elbows and I hate it. " OKay...I?m begging you now....what do you want to see and who exactly is going to bring that to you? And what results do you want? Is 6th in the league no good anymore for you, and a place in two cups? Is having a deeper squad than we have had in the last 8 years not enough? Is having a midfield that can absorb injuries, and still play competitively not enough? Is having the luxury of 4 forwards to choose from not enough? Who do you want to manage the team? What flavor of the month do you want? What player do you want? What style do you want? Do you even know what you want? You strike me as an unbelievably unhappy person when Everton gets a result that doesn?t conform to your dire predictions....C?mon, Tony, have a go. And please spare me the amounts you have spent, because I don?t care. Al Karl Masters 3 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:24:55 Report abuse A supporter is supposedly someone who encourages and supports the actions of the players they are supporting.Whether you do that blindly, or seemingly in your case, Tony, the complete opposite is up to you, I suppose.Personally, I support the Manager, the team and players whoever they are. That is my job, and even though they frustrate the life out of me sometimes, that is my role.I do, however, as a customer spending money, have a right to question the off the pitch activities. In the case of Everton, these are more akin to a circus, but that’s my opinion and other customers may feel differently.... although I doubt it!! :) Jay Campbell 4 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:26:12 Report abuse Everything you say there Tony is bang on mate!!! Tony Gee 5 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:23:37 Report abuse eureka...!!!I have long since waited for a fellow blue to submit this kind of article, but I fear tony, we are in the minority at present my friend..I too have solid everton credentials including over 800 matches attended under my belt, and a club crest tattoo etc, but also feel that when i have a pop at the orange oaf (which i often do on these pages), i am made to feel inferior to the pro moyes brigade...i have been calling for the head of our second rate center half turned tactically clueless manager for some time, as I too hate the way MY club currently play football...So, Tony Marsh despair not my friend, you are indeed a real fan... maybe me and you unlike most of the kids on here, remember the days when Everton used to play decent attacking football, with the desire to win outweighing the fear of losing...I think most on here have forgotten the meaning of " NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM " ... if they ever knew it at all...!!Moyes out.... Al Dugan 6 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:29:55 Report abuse Wow, Lloyd, I didn?t realize you were going the censorship route? You have allowed this wonderful site to become a repository for hate speech against the manager, players, facilities, and all things that don?t conform to your dream about the club...All I ask is that someone, anyone of you explain what you want...and Tony refuses to do that instead laying on some lame credentials about how long he has been travelling to away matches. I asked legitimate questions about the team and the manager in the last post, and yet your insinuation is ridiculous. Unless we conform to the way you think, we will be banned? Is Stalin still living? Do I stay in if I just say Moyes out? Al Dugan 7 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:46:01 Report abuse Does anyone know enough about the game to have a discussion about what they want? Everton played decent attacking football 20 years ago....those days in football are over...the game has changed, the money has grown, the players are different. Please, any of you, tell me what you want different and why...what results would we get that would be different...I?m looking for a civil thoughtful discussion, but none of you have that ability it seems. David Siggers 8 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:30:04 Report abuse I agree with Al, and I have to say Michael Kenrick, that many of us who come on to this site are fed up with T Marsh writing (it seems) only after a defeat. That?s why (not by me) people may question his support. I want Everton to play good football and win trophys. But who can deliver that at this moment? I am not sure its DM. But from my (limited) contacts in the game Moyes is highly rated by other clubs and managers. Why do you T Marsh use the term (insult?)? Moyes Minions against anyone who disagrees with you? (Pot ? kettle)Also we can all tell a history of support, a hundred days or a hundred years of support we are all equal in my eyes. Tim McBride 9 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:41:53 Report abuse Tony and TonyI can understand your frustrations and share some of them, but who would you have to replace Red haired one? Would they come to the once mighty Everton? Moyes has improved the squad/team from the dark Walter disappointed days and maybe he is reaching his maximum but my biggest complaint is that NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM has got to start from the very top and this has not been the case for many a year and is definately NOT the case at the moment. Robbie Shields 10 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:04:02 Report abuse Tim, I’d replace Moyes with Glen Hoddle, there’s a name for you that knows how to play football and coach aa team to play football. He managed to coach Swindon into a very good footballing side, then did the same at Southampton and Spurs. Also, he was a fabulous midfielder, linking up the play between defence and attack! Does this ring any alarm bells about what is missing at the moment at Everton.And finally, I completely agree (almost 100%) with Tony Marsh but would prefer he didn’t use derogatory phrases when referring to other Evertonians, it is as bad if not worse than being told you are not a true fan. I echo Michael Kenrick’s post, please debate the points in a civil manner.So, can some one please civilly explain why I am so off the mark thinking that Glen Hoddle could do a job for us. Gerard Madden 11 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:18:55 Report abuse Problem is some ?Evertonians? have and are doing nothing but whinge at events on and off the pitch for a long time now, yes I have serious reservations myself about how our team is managed to play but I won?t stop supporting us and I won?t be putting up the occasional article implying about how ?I feel nothing for the club any more after...blah blah blah? - They are the types that I feel were never real Evertonians in the first place and they have the cheek to make out they?re some sort of ?superblue? who?s had enough of the current situation - you couldn?t make it up you really couldn?t. colin potter 12 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:55:19 Report abuse Nice one Tony(both of you) you brought back the memory of going to Oldham in 1953,we needed to win by 7 nought to win the league,won 4-0 sofinished second instead of first.the buggers at Oldham put tar on the walls to stop the Evertonians from getting in,it didn’t stop anybody though,great times at the awaygames then! The sad thing now though is i’m nat considered a supporter now,even though i’m a season ticket holder because I think Moyes is a complete fraud whose tactics,or lack of them,would turn the Pope into a protestant.The only thing he knows about passand move is.When he passes wind, he moves so he does’nt get the blame. Billy Piper 13 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:20:47 Report abuse A true supporter doesn?t say...?I hope we get beat?on the eve of an important match at Newcastle just to further his own twisted agenda.The guerrilla war being waged against the club by yourself and your kindred spirits apart from being destructive is one big yawn....give it a rest ! Billy ? that was an imposter impersonating TM; sorry we didn't cath it earlier ? MK Dutch Schaffaer 14 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:29:23 Report abuse I somehow think real supporters actually have something nice to say about their team once in awhile.Just yesterday Tony Marsh confidently claimed that Everton had no chance in the group stages of the UEFA Cup.Is that a real supporter? A person who finds it impossible to take any joy out of his club, even after a victory? Steve Lyth 15 Posted 09/10/2007 at 14:59:02 Report abuse WBN, Moyes has improved the squad from Walters days but he has had the time and the money to put together a decent footballing team.The squad thus far assembled lacks balance, it has no width and very little flair.Moyes appreciates hard working honest pro,s Phil Neville being the epitome of the mans views on the game.We will win nothing as long as this man is in charge of our team, its taken Erikson 5 mins to put together a skillful outfit.You could give Moyes another 10 years and we will still not witness a team with natural flair. Moyes has limited capabilities as a coach, hence his team offer much the same on the pitch. The lovey we have in charge at the helm is obviously incapable of recognising these facts and nothing will change until we have a change at the top.In terms of who could replace Moyes ? Anyone who has won something would suit me, Sparky would do just fine IMO but until BK vacates, we are stuck with mundane Davey. Getting back to the theme of Tony,s article I suspect that all of us who have followed the lads from the sixties have big reservations about Moyes, we have been spoilt watching the best sides in Evertons history (bar Dixies days). If some of the lads have had enough who can blame them, some of the abuse that has been dished out to those expressing their passion about the club we all love has been nothing short of disgusting. John Loyd being another culprit in a recent post from a Blue voting with his feet . I truly hope BK sells and we dont go to Kirkby as I really can see the hard core support of this club disapearing. I have travelled with most of our away crew for years, these lads are the hard core for me and their patience like my own is running low. Lets hope Davey boy gets all insparational and does something in Europe, you cant take hope away can you. Sean Alinson 16 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:14:06 Report abuse The ’I’m a bigger Evertonian than you’ nonsense belongs in the school playground. The reason most supporters get on your case Mr. Marsh is that you are a repetitive, crushing bore who has the arrogance to decide that what is being served up as football by EFC at the moment is Moyes’ Style. It patently is not. It is an attempt to get the best results out of a meagre squad whilst building a playing staff that is indeed capeable of playing real Moyes Style football. The amount of money required to buy players of the quality needed to play the football we all (including Moyes) long for has been beyond us, but if you would only look past the end of your nose you would see a cleverly asssembled team that , when at full strength, can compete with anyone. Next comes strength in depth, which will allow us to compete even when we have the kind of catstrophic injury list that has so far blighted our season. If you want to see a ’Moyes Style team’ look no further than the Preston team he used to manage. With little financial resource he made them into the best passing team in the division, and one that outplayed us at Goodison in the FA Cup, even though the result went against them. Five years today isn’t the same as five years in the seventies, name me one manager who has accomplished more on the same budget and within the same timescale. Jesus, smell the coffee! Tim McBride 17 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:30:04 Report abuse There are no such things as ’real’ Evertonians Gerrard, just "Evertonians" pure and simple, all equal all the same, all cheer when we score and all sigh when Neville fails with another pass!We will never all agree but like I said no Evertonian is better than any other Evertonian. Teresa Tungsten 18 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:34:33 Report abuse Real supporters? - I thought it would be fairly obvious. Usually have tanned skin with moustaches and follow the biggest club in Spain. Fairly simple really. Cant wait for the - Liverpool supporters - what are they! Mike Whittaker 19 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:25:26 Report abuse I dont think there is any question that David Moyes has improved the team or squad. But when you watch the football we serve up it is a disgrace. Everybody can draw there own conclusions but for me it shows that Mr Moyes and Mr Irvine are unable to coach/direct/instruct our players to play in a positive and fluid manner. He has turned players that looked quite useful for their previous club’s into players whose first thought is too hit it long and then defend. Whats the problem Moyes supporters shout?... we finished 6th last season and we beat Wednesday to get into the next round of the cup...blah blah blah. But surely even the most loyal Moyes supporter can see that hoof ball can only take us so far. With this style of football we will never progress to the top table of the premiership or europe as we will be cut apart, as happens every time we come up against even half decent footballing sides. Neil Styles 20 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:31:42 Report abuse Your heart is defintely in the right place, Tony and I have only the greatest repsect for someone like yourself who has given our club so much. But COME ON! Is it just me or do some Evertonians have very short memories?! Think of where we were prior to David Moyes. He has worked wonders at our club, I know we have fluctuated in recent seasons but by and large Davey has performed miracles at Goodison. It just baffles me that some Evertonians (albeit a very small minority) want him out. Believe me, sacking the Moyesiah is akin to committing club suicide. tony gee 21 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:43:26 Report abuse billy piper...i thought you looked really hot in those suspenders and bra knicker combo playing a hooker the other night on T.V, but fair play love, you know nowt about Everton....Moyes Out! David Siggers 22 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:46:08 Report abuse T Marsh,were you one of the supporters calling for H K to be sacked in the eighties? tony gee 23 Posted 09/10/2007 at 15:52:54 Report abuse sean alinson...so we have a cleverly assembled squad then eh...Never mind the coffee lad, i think you’ve been smelling glue....!! Steve Lyth 24 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:07:10 Report abuse Sean, with the exception of a 4th place finnish try Mark Hughes.Neil why would it be Club suicide if Moyes went, can you expand on that opinion please ? Dean 25 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:05:24 Report abuse Definition of a real supporter:-1- Follows blindly2- Spends all their money on football3- Can afford to spend all their money on football4- Probably has a son, so like them they can be "born an evertonian"5- Lives in the city where the ground is situtatedI personally think that it is all such a bunch of bullshit. The media often talk about ’real’ fans being the heart and soul of a club, but this only serves to inflate their ego and keep them paying the money to ensure the club stays afloat.I went to games when I could afford it, I bought the club strip when I could afford it, but what’s the point when you pay however much money to watch a sack of shit every week?Even in the so called "glory days" we didn’t play good football, in fact in all the 20 years or so I’ve supported Everton, we HAVE NEVER PLAYED GOOD FOOTBALL.I will always support Everton, but I like to watch other teams like Arsenal and Barcelona because it’s ENTERTAINING. Do you prefer to pay good money and NOT be entertained? or do you just like shouting your mouth off every week to let out the stress of the week? tony gee 26 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:05:08 Report abuse David Siggers..That was a cheap pop at Tony Marsh...Had you been at goodison in 1983 with the other 13,000 die hards when we played coventry city before the revival, then you would realise that 90% of the crowd that day were demanding the sacking of the great one...Hindsight is a wonderfull thing to have... Al Dugan 27 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:00:39 Report abuse Glenn Hoddle???? Glenn Hoddle....and his success in the last few years was what? Would you allow him to bring the Faith healer with him? Would you take a 10th place finish in the Prem and an 11th place finish? Did you forget he got sacked at Wolves? Mr. Whittaker, what exactly is hoof ball? And what exactly has gotten us the last batch of goals we have scored? And what has gotten us further in Europe? And 2 years before we finished 4th in the league...and you guys wanted him out then...with your logic there would not be one manager in the entire league who would hold his job for more than 12 months. I don’t agree with all he does, but certainly you folks don’t give him ANY credit at all. None. It’s just Moyes out, then it would be whoever replaces him out, and then whoever buys us out....I disagree that we play boring unimaginative football when we win. Al Dugan 28 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:19:06 Report abuse So it’s Mark Hughes we want? How did they do in the draw for the next round of the UEFA Cup today....oh they’re out?? How did that happen with a brilliant manager, who would take us to the next level? What would they be saying about him on the Rovers’ site?Hughes side plays thug ball, it is different than hoof ball in that players usually leave the field on stretchers at the end of a match instead of swapping shirts. BABY blue 29 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:05:50 Report abuse Michael Kenwrick, so it is alright for Tony Marsh to call people like Conner Rohrer and Butch Wafer "MOYES MINIONS" or "MOYES MUPPETS" but they can not respond by calling him a Liverpudlain or a a plastic fan. I just dont get that at all. One for me is just as offensive as the other. What happens if these people dont like being called these things just as Tony Marsh doesn’t like being called a kopite. Just because you agree with Tony Marsh more does not give you the right to bum up to him everytime he is offended.I relly do think TM is just a wind up merchant. There where rumours flying round that he was a Pool fan from skem and to be honest i am starting to believe them.I hardly eva wright on this website but I do read others comments and Tony Marsh is just as bad as the people mentioned. Steve C 30 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:14:13 Report abuse For the record Sparky, Mark Hughes would not be acceptable as a replacement for Moyes. He is a average manager. Blackburn under his reign have spend hell of alot more cash than Moyes and Everton. And what has he got to show for it?? Nothing. They have finished in similar positions to Everton under his term. Why would he make a better manager please someone explain this to me ????As for Glenn Hoddle Don’t make me laugh.If we do ever change manager we would have to get a manager with some sort of decent track record who has a knack for building teams with flair and who can get it done. tony gee 31 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:23:42 Report abuse Al dugan...get real...had Victor not saved our skin last thursday, then we would have been out on our arses just like mark hughes and blackburn...It wasn’t a master stroke by clueless dave to put victor on, it was an act of desperation...if you remember rightly, our david put his faith in The useless Yakubu to get the goals, and left anichebe warming the bench.... shrewd decision that eh, considereing yakubu stank the entire gaff out.... ONCE AGAIN!Yakubu Makes moyes’s previous aquisitions of james beattie and per Per kroldrup seem shrewd!!! Seamus Murphy 32 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:21:04 Report abuse Tony - In general i agree with your viewpoint, the football we are watching is crap. But YOU must also stop the pathetic name calling you wish to see eradicated. There are quite a few terms used on this website that can be attributed to you, most of which are used to demean anyone who doesnt want to phophesize about our impending doom. You even start this article by calling a section of our support "Moyes Minions". The vast majority of people who call other everonians on this site "not real supporters" are usually just kneejerking a quick response to a knee jerk post, e.g. I’m finished with this club, i’m never going to another everton game etc.etc.Anyhow, if you want name calling to stop you must stop it yourself. Jumbo Roper 33 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:19:42 Report abuse I was at goodison in 1983. Boxing day if i recall. Coventry. Endless boos and cat calls from the crowd. 15000 or close to it. Howard on his way. bring on Oxford United in a league cup quarter final. Eight minutes from elimination. Defensive mistake lets in Heath and the rest is history. In all seriousness how do you define a true supporter. I live in Braintree and therefore do not get to go to too many home games. I have followed, no supported the club since around 1979. I was present at the 84,86,89 and 95 cup finals and only missed 1985 because i had broken a leg. I have been to goodison on about 60 occasions over the years and every visit was from over 50 miles outside liverpool. I have around a dozen replica strips going back to the Watford final. I have a variety of accessories and merchandise i have gathered going back as far as the Gordon Lee days. I dont live in Liverpool. I am not a regular at Goodsion. But no matter what nobody says i see myself as a true supporter. I get angry when they lose, and elated when they win especially if its one of the big four that gets scalped. With derby day next week emotions will be running high and whether i can get up to the game or not one thing will remain consistent. I will want, maybe not expect but want and hope that they beat (that red shite) and take it on from there. True supporters are down to the individual. Everyone has their own tastes. I for one can consider myself a proper if thats the word, supporter of 28 years now. lets hope theres another 28 to look forward to. - Surely Moyes or SOMEONE can end our 12 year hoodoo within that time. Cant they? Connor Rohrer 34 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:25:28 Report abuse Good post Tony Marsh. Very interesting and nice to see some positivity towards the club.I will stop questioning your match credentials when you stop calling me a Moyes lover which I blatently am not. For me that is just as bad as me calling you a fake fan. Until the day comes I will keep questioning you no matter what Michael or any others say on this website say.Do you want to end it hear or do you want to keep bringing up past posts and writing my name in your posts. For me that is just childish and a bit of a cryer baby on your behalf. If someone offends you report them to TOFFEEWEB police. Get a grip lad. Al Dugan 35 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:36:28 Report abuse And Victor’s goal last week was the third was it not...I think we were already thru by that time if I am not mistaken....It was McFadden who put as thru....or does that not fit your justification for slagging the manager? 3-3 on agg on thru on away goals...yes? Steve C 36 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:40:06 Report abuse Tony Gee GET REAL!!!There was no desperation about the change. Its called tactics. One striker was doing the job so he was subbed for another. Why is it always desperation when Moyes makes a tactical decision?As for Yakubu i admit he hasn’t done the job YET!! and he is frustrating but c’mon give him a chance. If by January its still the same then yes its a waste of money on him. Nick Dougherty 37 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:39:22 Report abuse Tony GeeI think most Evertonians seemed quite happy when Yakubu was being touted as an Everton player and a few seemed upset with Everton when it looked like it was going to fall through.But he has been crap since arriving but hardly Moyes fault T Knowles 38 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:47:04 Report abuse I?m going to get splinters by sitting on the fence. I do think that Moyes has done a good job in difficult circumstances and it is to his credit that at the start of the season many of us thought that we could maintain a top six position ? with the added bonus of a decent cup run.However ? the pressure is mounting because of two key issues that we can all see he has to resolve ;1. The short comings in centre midfield that were so obvious before the transfer deadline. Don?t want to hear about Fernandez - it went wrong but surely his plan B wasn?t a gamble on an aged Grav returning. And no I don’t think Cahill returning will solve it either.2. The 11 million that he spent on the Yak when it appears he doesn?t fit into the ?style? of football the team is set up for.If he can coach/manage a solution for centre mid creating more goal scoring opportunities for the Yak and AJ then obviously we will have another good season. And all credit to him.If he can?t then we are in for a difficult time - but that the criticism he will obvious receive will be warranted. Tony Waverleas 39 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:39:30 Report abuse Erm, since when was it up to the supporters to identify & appoint the next manager of our beloved club? Can’t say I’ve ever spotted those conditions of sale in the small print when I’ve been buying my season tickets.So, like, it is permissible to say the style of football under DM is shocking (which it is most of the time) & not be labelled treacherous.Settling for mediocrity because you’re too afraid of any alternative is not what I bought into as an Evertonian .Those words on the crest do actually mean something, you know. colin potter 40 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:25:00 Report abuse Neil Styles,would you kindly list the wonders and miracles Moyes has performed for us since he’s been here,not forgetting the fourth from bottom season, and yes I remember the times before him,they were bloody awful! the thing is Neil,they still are! At least there were times we got the odd 4 or more goals off Walter.Another thing I would like to know how much Walter ever got to try and improve things at the club,I don’t think it was ever very much,do you? Shaun Brennan 41 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:54:52 Report abuse We are all supporters of this club. Those who claim others aren’t just that should realize they aren’t in a elite group and just grow up. Mark Dodds 42 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:02:51 Report abuse I don’t dispute that your a real fan Tony - I just think your a tit Peter Singer 43 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:04:56 Report abuse Come on, Tony, don’t say you haven’t noticed it.You’re either a "Moyes Apologist" or "Not a Real Fan" on this site. Mike Carlisle 44 Posted 09/10/2007 at 16:52:06 Report abuse Quiet day at the office eh fellas?Surely at least one of you have a spreadsheet to look at or something? Peter Singer 45 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:13:22 Report abuse I have a spreadsheet of all Real Evertonians. Mind you, isn’t it funny when somebody writes a post about how much he’s pissed off by being called a "not real supporter" and finishes it with telling everyone they’re not real?Tony, you certainly do believe in attack being the best form of defence. Ray Said 46 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:26:46 Report abuse Like Tony i support Everton Football Club, players and managers are transient and come and go but the club and supporters endure. Like Tony i see no need to hide my opinion and toe the party line. If a manager or player are shite then lets stay free to say so. I cant stand these people that bang on about loyalty to the cause when they really mean dont rock the boat.EFC payers and manager are paid a fortune to perform for us, if we dont like what we see then lets say so. Fuck the delicate feelings of the modern day manager and players. In the real world if your not performing then you will get a kick up the backside or a P45! We have stripped the skin off way better players and managers than Moyes and some of the current players so why should they be exempt from a tongue lashing? Dont put up with crap hoofball just because they wear EFC shirts. Demand better and dont settle for 5,6,or 7th place and a bit of a cup run.Tony Marsh has strong opinions on the way we play, where we play and everything EFC and long may he express them those opinions as strongly as ever! seany blue 47 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:14:12 Report abuse first point tonyim sure every everton fan would agree with the comments about our current style of fooball is just not good enough....however when mister moyes has a chance to put HIS best team out for 3 or 4 games in a rowim sure our football will improve. any team with 5 new players needs time to gel.point 2who would you put in charge of our beloved club?? someone suggested glenn hoddle?? now he has a proven record of winning nothing!!! yes his teams might have played better football but i dont see to many other premiership clubs bangging on his door to manage there clubs!!!!!!!point 3Remember how the ginger 1 got us to the lofty heights of 4th!!! I DO. on a shoe string budget with a 250 thousand singing in marcus bent!point 4If we do change manager it could set us back another 5 years..so tony my advice would be to get behind our team manager and support the club just like you did back in the day Tony Marsh 48 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:49:15 Report abuse Connor being called names will never offend me mate.I just laugh it off but there are thousands of Everton supporters who dont like the Moyes brand of football who still go the games under sufferance who are being told they are not real because the dont follow the manager down a blind alley.Seamus Murphy the last time I looked in a dictionary the word minion meant a />serville follower.How is that derogatory />to anyone.Most of the fans on here who rate Moyes are his followers arent theyafter all they call him the Moysiah. Steve Lyth 49 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:46:08 Report abuse Al D & Steve C, I put forward Sparky because the man is a winner and in my own opinion would be a good manager for our club, so as far as i am concerned he would be acceptable.Dont tell me we have a better team than Blackburn because we dont. Sparky has assembled a far more talented squad of players than Moyes has in a similar time frame, one can only imagine what the man could achieve with a Crowd as passionate as ours behind him.Please explain how Sparky has spent more money ? From the dealings I have seen this is not the case and the team he has built have played us off the park on their last two visits to Goodison, not least with a little flair. colin potter 50 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:49:24 Report abuse Never a truer word Ray !! Brian Waring 51 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:52:17 Report abuse Nick,why isn’t it Moyes fault concerning Yakubu?Don’t you think it may be down to the tactics employed by Moyes?Yakubu is not a player who will run around all game for you,but Moyes expects him to do that.I think 99.9% of people knew that Yakubu was an out and out goalscorer and a player who is prone to being lazy.Everyone else that is,apart from Moyes. Simon Amble 52 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:50:06 Report abuse Tony - it’s a fair point you make in your post, it’s not right for people to say you’re not a proper supporter. Though Michael may dislike you listing your ’credentials’ I personally don’t object, it’s quite interesting I think. However, to repeat what some posters have commented on, there is a bit of double standards here. Your post is all about how it’s not right for you to be sledged like this, yet you are one of the most regular proponents of name-calling on the site! Moyes Brigade, Moyes Apologists, now the Moyes Minions. If you want respect it starts with giving it. I respect your stance on Moyes (though I disagree with much of it) but I can’t respect the language you choose to couch it in. Giving a lecture on manners is frankly farcical. Paul Dennis 53 Posted 09/10/2007 at 17:57:33 Report abuse I get behind the team,but the footy we play is crap. terry downes 54 Posted 09/10/2007 at 18:23:42 Report abuse well said tony cudnt agree more, i get right pissed watching hoofball week in and week out but its the blues i follow so its hoofball i suffer personally i think the squad we have now would play better football under a different manager, who though ive no idea but there must be managers out there who believe in pass and move ?? Keith Harrison 55 Posted 09/10/2007 at 18:05:17 Report abuse Quite a well balanced article by our old mate Tony, especially compared to his usual standards.I did laugh though at his umbrage at not being called a True Supporter after he machine gunned everyone who was not vehemently against Kirkby !!!!!Without exception, everyone who appears to have posted on Tony’s article is a true Evertonian, because if they weren’t, they would not be bothered to write.As long as everything is kept within the confines of reasoned debate, and not the pathetic name calling these articles sometimes descend to, I accept everyone’s opinion, even if I don’t agree with them.I believe Tony is right in that Moyes is still a ditherer, and at times, tactical numpty. I do though, hope that Davey is quietly learning his lessons as he goes along, and that it will shortly bear fruit. Using a midfield would be a start.If not, it may well be time to look for a replacement, as to take something as far as you can get does not mean it could not go farther under someone else. John Andrews 56 Posted 09/10/2007 at 18:10:41 Report abuse Tony, I can only agree with you. In the mid eighties, when things were going well, the team kept going for the full ninety minutes. They never gave up. The football was not always the best but it was successful.Now it seems like the fans are being treated to the same old stuff every week. The injuries are no excuse whatsoever. We had every opportunity to get the midfield sorted during the transfer window and failed to do so.If you care to recall with the Fernandes deal it was left to the last minute. This was on a deal that there were third party owners involved. The Tevez thing had just caused an almighty stink and we left it too late ! Bloody typical.I have followed Everton for 50 years but I don’t live in Liverpool so that obviously excludes me from being a real supporter. Does it b******s ! Peter Singer 57 Posted 09/10/2007 at 18:57:03 Report abuse Isn’t it simply about everyone’s yardstick being set at an early age and measuring everything against it afterwards?It’s not "nil satis nisi optimum", it’s simply that when Tony and co were young, our football was better and they long to see that again. What I think you fail to see is that it’s not just us. It’s how football evolved. When I watch the games of old, I can’t help wondering how players were not closed down, how they had acres of space to control the ball and turn, how someone with a moderate first touch, no pace but good shooting could be a goalscoring hero.Just an idea though. sean norton 58 Posted 09/10/2007 at 18:59:46 Report abuse I am not David Moyes’ biggest fan, in fact I’m not really a fan of his at all. I find him very dour and he trys to big himself up by using the relegation struggles as a yardstick for his improvement. The fact we were down there was a disgrace to begin with. Now Moyes has without doubt improved the football club. Bigger signings, higher profile, better league finishes etc etc and that is what we want but we also want good football. Now I don’t for one minute expect us to be spraying it around like Arsenal or Man U-not to begin with anyway. But the brand of Moyes’ football is truly awful. Think of the games this season where the opposition keeper could have stayed at home and there are far too many examples. The first half of the game against metalist was a disgrace-no matter who got the ball at the back they just lumped it forward aimlessly. Considering that is the brand of football we play the Yakubu signing is bizarre as he has never and will never run round like a headless chicken chasing down lost causes and for us to expect him to do it for us is silly. If you create chances he will score but we can not create chances for him presently.I think we are very much a work in progress for moyes but I am very worried by his get it and hoof it tactic however it is very difficult to argue against the positions we are finishing in under him.I think he is running out of time -hope I am proven wrong. Bob Turner 59 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:03:47 Report abuse How do you know when Everton have just lost a game? Because we hear from Tony "Hypocrite" Marsh, that’s how!And, in their infinite wisdom, the guys at TW decide to headline another of his "pieces".Tony, you are a hypocrite, because you did nothing but slag off anyone and everyone who dared to voice an opinion in favour of the move to Kirkby, denouncing them as not real supporters. And now you have the cheek to whine about this accusation being levelled at you.I don’t care how long you’ve "supported" Everton (I think you need to check the definition of this word in a dictionary!), or how many matches you say you’ve been to, it doesn’t make you any more an Evertonian than anyone else who contributes to this website.In fact, IMHO, (isn’t it funny how people seem to use this whenever they’re going to say something controversial, so that they can say "it’s only my opinion, and I’m entitled to my opinion"!) someone who, by their own admission, is going to refuse to watch Everton in Kirkby, is LESS of a supporter (again, before you get your knickers in a twist, look at your dictionary!)If you live by the sword, you die by the sword. If you’re going to be laughably over the top, as you have been for as long as I can remember, in your "views", then don’t whine when others do it to you. em 60 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:10:20 Report abuse its not that people question the loyalty its the way all of you people slag the team and manager off who has done a good job for the past 5 years, who can honestly say moyes hasnt steadied the ship? seany blue 61 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:19:16 Report abuse Tony When everton was playing a 5 man midfield only a season or two ago we played the ball on the deck got to 4th in the in the table and still the ginger 1 had critics...(i.e you) for not playing 2 strikers. now we are playing with 2 up the middle finished 6th pleying in the uefa proper and you still moan....YES i know it is painfull to watch but we just dont have the calibre of player at the moment to start playing really classy football. But we will get the right players in and im sure moyes was just as frustrated like the rest of us in not getting manny....you cant have 4 wives and 6 girlfriends tony Al Dugan 62 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:25:24 Report abuse So what exactly is hoofball again? I’ve only asked it about ten times, and no one has explained it to me yet....Our second against boro was a classic play by our midfielder on the opposite side of the field who fed a beauty of a side foot pass to another of our midfielders jsut outside the goal area....and our first on Sunday was our left back all the way down to his opposite touchline feeding a beauty (and getting destroyed in the process) of a pass across the goal to our striker to convert....What of those two goals did you folks dislike? Lescott....a Moyes signing...completely ignored by the Marsh-led crowd because he doesn’t fit into the little box of errors. Arteta...name another midfielder here in the last 15 years who has his quality with the ball...another Moyes signing...But, we play unattractive football...Did you watch Spurs give back the tying goal against the RS? And they are a better side because they attack and attack and attack...yet Torres was open for a simple header. Jol’s a genius by the way...wish he was available. He could do some things with this squad. What side doesn’t pound the ball out of the defensive third when they are threatened? Do you actually watch the damn matches? Paul Rigby 63 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:39:30 Report abuse Keep banging the drum, Tony, you’re right - what we are being offered is caveman hoofball. It isn’t good to watch, and it won’t win anything. Josh doherty, 15 64 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:31:34 Report abuse I dont believe our team lacks flair, but depth. In what will undoubtabley be a tough season in terms of fixtures (and possibly results) with the at least 4 more uefa cup games, i feel we started the season unprepared, knowin cahill was injured we did not strangthen the team enough to comperte in all these competitions and because of injurys to ?flair? players our team apears to lack this quality when i?m certain the problem is the lack of player in the squad. As for tony marsh, instead of moaning about the team, manager and tactics, try and get behind the team and prove you are a real supporter this way you will not have to prove your self as a supporter. After all the idea of a supporter is to supportnot moan. Josh doherty, 15 65 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:53:15 Report abuse we should have signed koumas Tim Lloyd 66 Posted 09/10/2007 at 19:12:28 Report abuse I have added my two penn’oth on here a couple of times. The first thing that always gets me is how people with 20 years of following the ’blues’ always consider that they are long time supporters. As I have mentioned on more than one occasion, I have followed my club (Everton of course) for approx 75 years. Over this period there has been a steady change in the way football has been played in this country. The frightening lesson English supporters were taught by the famous Hungarian side which walloped us 6-3 at Wembley , followed by 7-1 when they entertained us in Hungary, started the change. Even to this day, our British footballers cannot match those from the Continent when it comes to ball control. Hence, look at the composition of the top four sides in the Premier League and count the number of players from the British Isles. Now count the number of ’top class’ continental players available to David Moyes. Michael Arteta...Yes! Other foreigners are from the USA, Nigeria. Africa, Australia, not up with the best when it comes to playing the very best Football, tho’ by and large, quite the equal of most of our indigenous players. Now, many of you might blame Moyes for not buying into European players but, first, one has to have the money and, second, one would need the experience to know who the top players are. It is possible that our experience of European football, now we are in Europe, may broaden Moyes’ experience but before continuing constantly to knock the lad, allow him time to gain the experience of Alex Ferguson, Arsene Wenger, Sven Goran Ericcson, Jose Mourinho, Raphael Benitez and a few others, together with a Budget like these guys have at their disposal. We are not playing on a level playing field when it comes to comparing David Moyes with Managers like I have mentioned above. However, though maybe painfully slowly, he’s getting us in a position where the money in the Premier League is filtering down in larger quantities than of yore into Everton’s coffers. My suggestion to so many of you is to lay off the name calling and try and make constructive comments. "Sack Moyes" is clearly stupid, particularly, as so many point out, when a top class replacement is not apparent on the horizon, to me anyway craig stanley 67 Posted 09/10/2007 at 20:18:38 Report abuse i fear a backlash here but i think moyes as done wounders for this club before he came here we were staying up on the last day of the season now were in uefa cup group stages look good for reaching knockout stages,this wouldnt have happened before moyes and thats a fact,1st time we have been here,we never talk about relegation now, its now said it would be a backward step if we didnt finish top 6,however i dont think moyes can take us any further so i might shock you all by saying let moyes go,and the only manager i can see taking us further and wouldnt want millons a season to himself,bring in the one and only harry redknapp it makes sense when you think about it coyb Dave wilson 68 Posted 09/10/2007 at 20:08:01 Report abuse JoshAgreed lad, but he doesnt work nearly hard enough for Moyes’s liking when we dont have the ball Peter Singer 69 Posted 09/10/2007 at 20:37:42 Report abuse Harry ’Whealerdealer’ Redknapp? He and his turnstile tactics is exactly the thing I don’t want to see. But at least an alternative we can talk about, so istill a good point, mate. Richard Dodd 70 Posted 09/10/2007 at 20:49:37 Report abuse As the biggest Moyes Muppet of them all,I’d just like to say that much as I disagree with Tony’s views on all things Everton,I totally respect his right to hold them.What a boring site this would be if we all held to the same beliefs!Keep it coming Tony.I’m sure you will see the light one day! Gilly 71 Posted 09/10/2007 at 20:59:23 Report abuse Although i upsets me to say it, the truth is there are a limited number of managers out there (if any!) who could take over the mantle at the moment. On paper Moyes’s first choice 11 arent a bad little outfit, lets give them the benefit of the doubt for now and judge Moyes when his squad is fully fit. If its still dross at the end of the season perhaps its time everton looked for a better alternative. José Mourinho anyone? Drew Phelps 72 Posted 09/10/2007 at 22:15:53 Report abuse I think this came out of a lot of the comments Tony made in the message boards about pro-Kirkby Evertonians not being true blues. He should get crap for that because it’s just nonsense. Gerard Madden 73 Posted 09/10/2007 at 22:48:41 Report abuse Got to laugh out loud at Tony Marsh submitting an ’article’ about what is a ’real’ supporter - I thought Tony already knew what was a ’real’ supporter as he’s told us often enough in the last few months. Ged 74 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:22:24 Report abuse "useless jock"Nice.Wasnt it sound being excited today at being a European draw? Moyes and his players earned that last season.We havent started the season well, the football we’ve played is crap and we were lucky to get through the Kharkiv match. But we did and tell me a team that wouldnt be strengthened by Cahill and their best striker (Vaughan) coming back. The difference is that Moyes has had money to spend this year so ultimately lets judge him at the end of the season as he’s not working on a shoestring anymore.Cant defend Yakubu being gash though, thats just plain silly.Tony, youre entitled to your opinion as much as anyone, but just because you have that opinion it doesnt mean that its true. Connor Rohrer 75 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:32:02 Report abuse I agree with alot of posters that Moyes is tactically inept but I dont agree that our style of play has everything to do with him. Yes he sets the players out with certain instructions but when they get on the pitch it is them and no one else. Thats what bothers me. Why do people seem to blame Moyes all the time and not the players. Are the players as good as we make them out to be? I dont think so.Against Mettalist Moyes chose to play the three best ball players at his disposal in Arteta, Pienaar and Osman. He understood that you have to keep the ball to survive in europe so for me this was the best option. But with these "BALL PLAYERS" we where still outplayed.I dont think we have enough positive ball playing, technically gifted footballers to be playing this expansive football the likes of Tony want. We have Arteta, Van der Meyde, Pienaar, Gravesen and a lesser extent Osman who fall into this catagory other that that zilch. No manager would get the likes of Carsley, Hibbert and Neville playing pass and move football as they are not gifted enough footballers.So whilst Moyes plays a part I dont put all the blame on him as there are eleven men on the pitch also. Eleven men I do not believe are as good as some people think.But then people could say this is Moyes’s team now which I completely agree with. This is Moyes team and as a team they must improve.This is what I dont undertand with Tony Marsh:"IMHO its the supporters who still back Moyes who are doing the real damage to the club.With out you this uselss jock would be long gone."Tony, Why shouldn’t we back Moyes? He is our manager and I doubt very much he is going to be sacked as Kenwright seems to love the man. No fans in my opinion, could force Moyes out of this club. This was proved when we finished 17th and he was still in the job the next season. So while he is the manager of our club I will support him as I sopport Everton football club.I think I have stated many times that I am far from a "Moyes Muppet" and I do agree with that he is tactically inept but I accept that he has took the club forward and judging by the start of the season the results haven’t been bad. I would rather wait until later on in the season before I judge what level we are at and whether it is Moyes time to go.If you are so bothered about it Tony then protest against him. I haven’t lately seen any protesting or "MOYES OUT" AT Goodison park so suprise me. There seems to be alot of Evertonians that are fed up so I say go for it. If protesting makes everyone happy and allows them to get there views across then I am all for it. Brian Wolf 76 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:10:12 Report abuse It really grinds me that Mr Marsh thinks he is being hard done by, yes this is the same Mr Marsh who was quick to come out and say that Pro Kirkby voters were’nt real Evertonians, anyone who doesn’t live in Liverpool doesn’t understand Everton and a range of other soundbites along the same lines. This is the same man who would stop going to see Everton because it is 4 miles down the road, yes he would abandon the club he claims to love on principle, because, as he puts it, he would have to sit surrounded by scabs and traitors.What goes around comes around Tony eh. Tony Marsh 77 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:10:28 Report abuse So what you are saying Connor is that you need at least 6 seasons to decide if Moyes is any good as a manager/tactitian.Meanwhile managers Like Coppell,Wenger,Erikson,Hughes all go out and unearth new talented footballers no one has ever heard of before and turn them in to premier league stars.When did Moyes ever bring a player to the club who was unknow and make them a star?It doesnt happen mate.All Moyes does is bring in decent players then ruin them.It hasnt taken me 6 years to wake up to this.Why you and others feel he needs more time is beyond me.Money is being spent each season yet nothing seems to changeis that the players fault?I dont think so.Watched Leeds play Darlington tonightand not once did I see Leeds play long balls up to the strikers it was all to feet and to a team mate.Why can they do it on thier limited funds yet Moyess Everton and the millions spent cant.Wake up lad Moyes has been found out. Michael Tracey 78 Posted 09/10/2007 at 23:55:22 Report abuse Yes it is interesting that you are not allowed to call Tony a true supporter but he can shout whatever he likes from the rooftops about anyone. I remember the Kirkby debate, even though i agree with his points he was the first to shout at someone not being real. I do happen to agree with him about the manager as well, yes he has done a good job but i really can’t see him taking the team any further. I always liked the way that Chelsea played when Ranieri was coach what about him? Or better still what about Terry Venables? Problem is though I think we need to replace the board before we can even entertain a new manager! I think Moyes has hit his peak and a lot of us know it and so does he! The board know it too but they are cost cutting and wouldnt be able to pay what a super talented manager is worth. Steady the ship to Graceland, then they will worry about producing the hits. Liam Young 79 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:49:37 Report abuse I dont think anyone should justify there support, i sometimes also get frustrated by moyes tactics, especially his lack of ambition to make subs, but i am surprised still by the anti-moyes lot, people look at the 80’s a lot as a foundation to where we should be, how can you ever compare it?, the game has changed so much, but the one thing i have seen in the last few years is an improvement at everton, we have just qualified for the uefa cup group stages, something we have been banging on about for years, now you want the manager out??, can you blame people for having a go tony, and all the other anti-moyes people, it seems you just want something to moan about. if we were going in the wrong direction i would agree, but were not, lets just get behind the team and stop banging on about moyes out, how is sacking the manager going to achieve anything in an important season we have ahead of us!. You are supporters of the club, like us all, but show it by getting behind the team.Lets do a job in europe, get ourselves back on the map lads. Bob Parrington 80 Posted 10/10/2007 at 00:41:51 Report abuse There?s obviously a lot of feeling on this one. I own up to being one who gets more than a bit frustrated at seeing messages slagging off players, manager, assistant manager, old uncle Tom Cobbley etc. I think it in "unsupportive". And, yep, I voiced my frustration and received the "warning". Well, I?ve thought about Mike?s comments and this issue and the fact is, those slagging off the players and management are just as frustrated with the team as I am with those supporters so they have every right to do the slagging. They?re just letting off steam and I was wrong to suggest they should travel across the park, if you get my drift.Other than the troublesome rumour bandits I reckon everybody writing in this forum IS AN EVERTONIAN and we just have different ways of expressing that. Nik Hopkins 81 Posted 10/10/2007 at 06:29:26 Report abuse Tony I used find your articles a bit annoying but I gradually beginning to see where you are coming from!!!!! It’s great to see you still supporting EVERTON FOOTBALL CLUB and it was great to get the low down on your career(quite literally) as an Everton supporter Any chance you can write some articles about the great games your saw in the 80’s? Mike Whittaker 82 Posted 10/10/2007 at 08:15:40 Report abuse Al - Hoof ball is when after you have played 12 or so games of the season your centre back is your clubs top scorer. Your two most expensive signings look ineffective and confidence destroyed because they have no service.Your best midfielder, the only one with a first touch and an eye for a pass, is getting increasingly frustrated.Next time you watch Everton play count how many times we are able to pass the ball between each other - you will notice it doesnt go much higher than 3 and normally 2 of those are sideward and backward passes. The third is hit high and probably over 30 yards which in most purists eyes constitutes a hoof.PS. Al, I’m still waiting for you to tell me who scored our third goal against Middlesborough - my bet is Lescott from a corner ; ) Alisdair Denny 83 Posted 10/10/2007 at 10:32:18 Report abuse In my opinion, the thing I dislike about Tony’s posts (note it’s the posts I don’t like, I’ve never met the man) is the almost constant negativity and spin. I do remember reading a post once which had some positive comments in it, but only one. I have however read a lot which have gross exaggerations in order to justify his dislike for Moyes.When he claims that Coppell, Eriksson and Hughes have unearthed unknown players and turned them into Premier league stars, I have no idea which players he is talking about, perhaps someone could advise who they are (and I’m not asking for a list of players who have had a few decent games, I’m looking for genuine stars as Tony suggested). To also claim that "all Moyes does is take decent players and ruins them" is such a blatant lie that it erodes further any credibility he had.Perhaps in order to convince us once and for all that he is right, he could write an article on why he is a better qualified judge than 19 other premiership managers who saw fit to name Moyes as manager of the year TWICE.And on a final note, as for being a real fan or not, I’m sure you are Tony, just as I’m sure that people who don’t want Moyes sacked are also real fans. They just have a different opinion to you James Elworthy 84 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:11:09 Report abuse HOOFBALLIs this when your centre half’s launch the ball to forwards heads, ie Wimbledon tactics.Stubbs plays that way. Unsworth was the worlds worst hoofballer. In days gone by didnt we hoofball with Mick Lyons and Billy Wright.I can recall the hoofball being played to Peter Beardsley and Tony Cottee when they played up front together as neither was higher than 5’7" it was a waste of time.Apart from the halcyon days of Kendalls’ mid 80’s team we have been a team of hoofballers since Harry Catterick passed away. Moyes is the latest in a long line of managers who employs this tactic. Duncan Ferguson was an easy target to hoof it too, but the Dunc despite the fact he won most headers never directed them to his team mates.I am probably now in the 800 plus club of watching Everton live and I can honestly say I have gone home on numerous occasions beguiled by the manager of the days tactics and the hoofing the ball mentality. Even my daughter complains to me about the tactics every week we have.As for unknown players who have become known players at Everton, Lescott and Cahill were relatively unknown to most. Terry " marsbar " Maddock 85 Posted 10/10/2007 at 13:39:46 Report abuse NIL SATIS NISI OPTIMUM ...It should apply to the "fans" as well..I remember the dickheads who threw cushions at the team in the 80’s and called for Kendals head..because he didnt produce the goods overnight..if the powers that be had took heed there may not have been any "glory days" for us to remember...Id like to ask you TONY MARSH..as long as you have been going the game..which is roughly the same as myself...has there been a manager you did like..?Its just that you constantly ask are we content with mediocrity..but in all the time you have been alive..bar 5 or six seasons ,this has been as good as it gets..Id like to know what you base your aspertions on? 4 good seasons 20 years ago...one good season when the "dogs of war " were playing the beautiful game..We actually were a big club the last time we challenged for the league..we are not even close now....You are due your opinion Tony, like we all are..but you never once put forward a viable alterative..you ask questions of thiose who cheer the team on..but dont have any answers yourself.All that money spent ..for what..to inanely rant at those who still see the light at the end of the tunnel..you just close your eyes to any good..because it will as usual make your predictions of doom and gloom.all the more laughable...So come Tony..your predictions for the Derby..and the group stages...we are favourites to win our group..oh those silly bookmakers what do they know...you could have got 2000/1 on Derby winning the league..!!!!! Neil Styles 86 Posted 10/10/2007 at 15:25:37 Report abuse Colin, I admit that we have fluctuated in league position under Moyesey but you cant possibly consider taking a very average team to the Champions’ League on a shoestring budget anything other than a minor miracle. True we didnt do too well but when you consider how unlucky we were against Villerreal and how far They went in the competition, there was no shame in us crashing out earlier than expected. 04-05 Moyes was also named manager of the season- a break in trend considering its an honor bestowed upon managers who win the league. Two seasons prior to that David Moyes inherited a side fit for relegation and completely turned our fortunes around and missed out on European football only on the very last day. For those who criticise his buys we must also remember he has brought through some excellent players from the youth academy, along with the purchases of Cahill, Lescott and most notably Arteta. Further Gravesen has consitently played his finest under Moyes. Look, I could go on and on here and I guess you could argue the pros/cons of virtually any manager if you really wanted to but I just dont understand how ANY Evertonian no matter how cynical could want Moyes out. Our start hasnt been as good as last season I know but the general consensus is that Moyes’ Everton are a much revolutionized side from that of the 90’s and turn of the millenium. Further the dramatic shift in league position from season to season is steadying and we are certainly set for a top 8 finish. ste tunny 87 Posted 01/11/2007 at 23:32:26 Report abuse REAL "SUPPORTERS" what are they ? was the question.They are people who support the club....that being 1 the players 2 the manager who has brought Everton back from the dark days of fighting relagation every year,to fighting for europe ever year.That sadly means mr marsh that you most definetly are not a real supporter. © ToffeeWeb