Stories coming out are saying it was a done deal and Moyes had spent weeks working on bringing Owen to the club. It is also said the player had agreed he would join us. So what went wrong? Was it another case of Dithering Dave dragging his heels? I mean look how quick Sir Alex tied the deal up, days I think it was. Something just doesn't ring true with this new farcical saga.
For the record, I never wanted Owen at our club because he is a selfish mercenary twat but that's beside the point. What concerns me is the "We nearly had him" crap thats coming from the club. To me, it's one of those "£8 million bid for Shearer after he signed for Newcastle for £10 million"-type efforts.
Plain and simple, either Moyes and the club are bullshitting us again or Davey dithered once more costing him his prize. Both scenarios are a worry if either are true.
Maybe getting gazumped at the death is something we will have to put up with with DM when he is dealing with transfers. United do the deal in 3 days... we take weeks and still don't get our man. Very strange.
How about the decision to let the stocking filler called Castillo leave the club so easily. WHY bring the lad over here and treat him so shoddily in the first place? Castillo was never given a fair crack of the whip but he looked real quality at times. His best game in a Blue shirt came at Chelsea 3 days after the semi-final win at Wembley. Castillio played Lampard of the park that night and I thought we had a real midfielder on the books at last. We never set eyes on the lad again... Why?
Lars Jacobsen is another mystery. Miles better than Hibbert yet he too is shown the door after doing nothing wrong and being under-used. Why?
With a new season upon us and a possible 55 to 60 games to be played, have we done the right thing here? Is our squad now so big that we can afford to let decent players leave with no-one coming in to replace them?
We finished last season 6 or 7 players short of competing properly... now we are even shorter on numbers.I ask you this: Who will play all these extra games we will have in the next few months??? FFS don't say Osman and Hibbert.
I find it hard to take that we fans play the "Guess who's coming to play for us?" game every day yet don't utter a word when decent lads are shown the door. What's that now , then — 4 or 5 out and none in? Oh yes we signed those kids and Yakubu and Arteta are like new signings. Only at this club would such crap go unchallenged by the fans.
I have given up on any decent new players coming in and already the powers that be have their excuse for the big one getting away... Nasty Fergie robbed our player. It just gets worse and worse with each passing year.
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1 Posted 08/07/2009 at 00:27:05
I was particularly disappointed not to see more of Castillo last season as I thought he showed enough to justify him having a few more matches.
Unfortunately, Jacobsen didn’t really get a chance due to his injury & I suspect Moyes made the choice at the business end of the season to stick with what he thought he knew rather than take a risk. I happen to think he was wrong as Hibbert was clearly not fully match fit when he came back for the last few matches & only really looked comfortable in the match with Wigan.
My opinion on Hibbert differs somewhat from yours, but you don’t win silverware through sentimentality & maybe Moyes let his heart rule his head on that one. Mind you, I wasn’t exactly wowed by what little we did see of Jacobsen & maybe his departure indicates Moyes intention to use Neville at right back again next season.
I do have to take issue with you as regards Osman. The lad prefers to play in central midfield & apparently barely trained last season due to ongoing injury concerns & yet still pushed himself through match after match playing out of position while the guy Moyes brought in to play there occupied Osman's space on the treatment table it seems.
His effectiveness out wide is quite hit & miss from match to match but we had no natural cover for VDM & it’s unreasonably harsh to lambast somebody who’s clearly putting the needs of the team ahead of his own preferences. Osman isn’t going to hold down a regular 1st team spot on his own merits but he’s a tidy player to have in the squad as cover.
I’m assuming we’ll get one biggish surprise & a few minor surprises just before the transfer window closes, but I won’t get excited until I see the deals are complete.
2 Posted 08/07/2009 at 00:59:27
3 Posted 08/07/2009 at 00:57:52
Unfortunately with Castillo, I think he was fine on the defensive end, but had zero creativity with the ball. On the bright side, we did sign a German lad today who still is too young to vote.
Tony, I know you take well-deserved punishment on this site, but when I ever get to England, both you and Ciaran have pints coming to you.
4 Posted 08/07/2009 at 00:50:14
1) Owen was officially out of contract for two whole days, which means clubs still needed Newcastle’s permission to talk to the player before that time and he cannot officially sign for anybody else. So IF (and its only an IF remember) we lost the cunt, it was in the space of two days not weeks of dithering. (I’m not foolish enough to think his agents still couldnt broker a deal but if he couldn’t officially sign then we never had him to lose) .
2) Moyes obviously signed Castillo out of desperation last summer, he admitted to only seeing him on DVD, and after watching him train on a daily basis then decides he would only be a bit-part player. The lad also suffered injuries and would have cost £4 million to sign permanently, one good game is surely not enough to over-rule DMs better better judgment.
3) People seriously need to lay off Hibbert and Osman. It might just be my parochial ideologies but having a couple of local lads surviving on a little technical ability and an awful lot of heart is far better than having some Danish nomad who wears skin tight speedos for a game of golf with ’the boys’. Whilst neither was ’born a blue’ for me at least, they embody the passion playing for our club should bring, I can relate to the euphoria in Osman’s face, wild eyed, as he runs past the away section having seen Lescott put us one-up against the RS or being the first to mob Gosling despite being on the opposite flank and having played almost 120 mins. (It just somehow seems to mean that little bit more, it's small inexplainable things that you notice i.e. the two of them walked past when a family member was queing for Semi-Final tickets and he said you could tell that they had turned up just to see how big the queues were).
As for Tony, I thought he was playing his best football for the club right up until the Final when he had a ’mare’ even drumming up a cult appreciation (that ironic 90s rave pastiche of a chant). Make no mistake, though, they don't just survive on sentimentality like mine, Osman’s double at Craven Cottage anyone?
Admittedly, in an ideal world the two of them would be the back-up for far better players but I don't think you would see them moaning in the press or throwing a strop if such a situation ever arises, because they are ones who will end up back in the terraces with the fans once their careers are over.
5 Posted 08/07/2009 at 04:21:23
As for Jacobsen? Well, he is impressive. No left foot, but still an improvement on Hibbert. I guess he just wanted to be assured of a spot. With Hibbert & (dare I say it) Neville at RB, he’s not guaranteed a spot.
6 Posted 08/07/2009 at 05:54:19
pints for Tony, Ciaran, Michael, Alan, Christine, Dick, and a few others I just can’t think of at the moment. When I get across the pond to Goodison — no time soon with 5 kids — I’m coming heavy in the wallet.
Hopefully on Boxing Day and we’ll have "beer Christmas" courtesy of the Yank. There’s just been way too much entertainment reading all this stuff by the aforementioned regulars to not open up the wallet and say thank you.
Tony — who gives a shit about Owen? We don’t need him and I for one don’t want him. If the Club faltered in this instance, thank God they did. Would contribute nothing to our current squad.
Take all that energy and direct it at something worth your time.
7 Posted 08/07/2009 at 06:10:32
Castillo — I don’t think he showed enough to be worthy of a permanent transfer, do you?
Jacobsen — I agree that it may have been worthwhile offering him a new contract. He showed that he would be a valuable squad player, although I don’t think he is the calibre of player we should be looking at as a first team regular.
As for releasing 4 or 5 players, it does sound an awful lot for a small squad, but in total, how many games did those 4 or 5 play last season? Not many. Are we really going to miss AvdM or Valente? Are you suggesting that Moyes should have offered AvdM a new contract to "keep the numbers up"? I can just imagine your reaction if he did...
However, I can understand that you have given up on any decent players coming in, after all there are only 50 odd days left in the transfer window.
8 Posted 08/07/2009 at 05:28:50
And answer me this: if they are as bad as you say they are, how come you had to wait until the very last game in April before you got your opportunity to gormlessly claim "I told you so"? Or maybe you’re not giving "Dithering Dave" enough credit? After all, the guy has the ability to produce a team that can go on long unbeaten runs in the most difficult league in the world whilst carrying two passengers???
Jacobsen? Fuck me, did you see him at Portsmouth? And when he got another opportunity at Chelsea, surprise, surprise, he got injured — again. Did it escape your notice that we struggled to win most of the handful of games he actually played in? Some loss... why else do you think Moyes took such a huge gamble on the fitness of Hibbert at Wembley?
9 Posted 08/07/2009 at 08:30:59
Castillo looked ropey in every game bar Chelsea away and we could ill-afford to spend £4m of what is probably not a very large kitty on another defensive midfielder.
Jacobsen and Hibbert was probably a toss of a coin — Lars winning when we have the ball and Tony when we haven’t. Either way, it is hardly a travesty of justice every time Hibbert got in the team as last season was probably his best for us.
I just think you need some football back in your life so you can have something to talk about instead of re-hashing old gripes.
10 Posted 08/07/2009 at 08:39:26
But still, holding on to Lescott will be akin to signing a new player, won't it Sir Phil?
11 Posted 08/07/2009 at 08:52:49
Castillo and Jacobsen were with the squad for a year, if they had impressed enough they would have been offered new deals. They weren’t good enough; neither can have impressed that much in training and both had one decent game in a Blue shirt which is nowhere enough to throw a long-term contract at them.
We will get more squad players in to replace them and I believe we will also get a couple of quality players in too. Moyes has already said that Rodwell will feature on a regular basis next season, as will the likes of Baxter and Gosling (probably the actual alternative to Hibbert as he was bought as a Full Back).
As usual with your posts Tony, they inevitably turn into a Moyes, Osman, Hibbert bashing session. For once you missed out Kenwright but as always it detracts from the points you have every right to make.
Finally, here’s an alternative view. Moyes knows what he is doing. He will have a list of possibles, some of whom will become probables and a couple will actually sign. Like every other manager in the Premier League he won’t always get his man, but this isn’t dithering, it’s just the way it is.
12 Posted 08/07/2009 at 09:06:11
Man U are champions of England and have reached the European Cup Final 2 years running. They’ll also be happy to pay him more whilst he won’t have the same expectations on him than if he came to Everton.
I’m amazed, Tony, at the way you still are so quick to put the boot into Moyes. I used to like reading your posts but they verge on the ridiculous now. Castillo looked shit and off the pace to me as did Jacobsen. Jacobsen was offered a contract but told he won’t be first choice. Hibbert is under contract so you can’t just let him go.
I’m not arsed about losing those two players. I imagine had we signed these guys, you’d be moaning about our lack of ambition for signing two players who clearly were deemed not good enough to play for the first team last season. But it’s all "Dithering Dave’s" fault, isn’t it?
My only agreement is about Osman. I still blame his laziness for not making more effort in closing down Malouda for Chelsea’s first crucial goal. If we only make one signing this summer, it’s a replacement for him.
13 Posted 08/07/2009 at 09:29:51
The "Dithering Dave" nonsense is a case in point, given the resources available to him the guy has to be sure, and he hits the mark with his buys more often than most others. For that, we should be applauding the guy to the rafters.
14 Posted 08/07/2009 at 09:43:58
15 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:18:11
16 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:25:22
Castillo, well, looked off the pace, struggled to pass a ball even 10 yards accurately... and at £4 million!! From the first 10 minutes of seeing him play, I knew Moyes wouldn't sign him.
Jacobsen wanted first-team football by all accounts and so chose Blackburn, his loss not ours. He looked a reasonable enough player but didn't look anything amazing and if he would rather play for Blackburn, thumping balls up from the back to giant forwards and looking for the knock-down, that's his choice.
I feel a bit sorry for you, Tony, because you must be some sort of manic depressive!!
17 Posted 08/07/2009 at 10:46:56
Jacobsen chose first-team football and rightly so, at his stage in his career it’s what he needs more than anything. On top of that, he offered no increase in pace or technical ability that Hibbert can’t offer us. Who is more likely to want to give his all for us out of them? By all accounts, Hibbert had a nightmare in the Cup Final and even I can’t defend that, but nobody will be more disappointed than he about his performance.
Owen is a greedy mercenary who is only looking out for Michael Owen. I for one am glad we didn’t go near him and if you want to call it dithering, then I’d prefer to call it cautiousness. Owen is like a china vase, he is very fragile and with Saha and Vaughan already on the books here, can we afford to be lining the pockets of another guy who will end up seeing more of Mick Rathbone than David Moyes?
Lastly, I disagree with your comment about being 6 or 7 players short of competing. If you look at the end of last season with the three key injuries we had, that leaves us 3 or 4. I would list the departures to the first-team squad as follows: Castillo, Valente, VDM and Jacobsen. Three of those barely played 5 games for us; big loss, huh? Compared to the new DM we signed from the States (who, as already been pointed out, has been playing at a lower level while he is at college doing his medicine degree so he has a career if and when his football career finishes), and a couple of young players, one of whom is rated as the best from HSV’s academy.
I’d say at that point we are really only a couple of players short of a decent first-team squad, not counting Jô, who looks like he is coming back on loan and thus was already here. We need a right winger and possibly a good goalkeeper to provide cover if Howard gets injured.
All together now: Always look on the bright side of life, di-doo, di-doo di-doo di-doo...
18 Posted 08/07/2009 at 11:05:28
Pathetic. All your speculations are only puzzling if you are determined to read the worst possible motive or outcome into everything the club does.
It’s a few days into the transfer window and you’ve "given up on buying any decent players". Here’s another suggestion — just give up altogether.
19 Posted 08/07/2009 at 11:00:27
I am not saying Jacobsen or Castillo are world beaters, just decent squad players who would've come in handy in a long season. It appears many of you also think Osman and Hibbert are only decent squad players but you are more than happy for them to stay????
We still have long term injuries to key players yet we are making the squad lighter in numbers .... ARRRGHH! How is this good management???
Rodwell will play more games, DM is now saying. Why? Because Fergie is sniffing about, that's why. Rodwell should've played in the Cup Final but guess what: Moyes didn't rate the lad two months ago. Yet more strange behaviour you let slide because it makes you feel better.
Alan Clarke, Moyes is a ditherer, no doubt about it, but it's not just about him. I am worried about the whole shambles that is EFC at the moment. A couple of Wembley appearances have blinded you all to what is going on at the club.
Still no new money, making the squad smaller even though we might end up in the Europa Cup for the long haul, and still looking as though we will have to sell to buy. Hey but Alan and his day-dreaming chums are all happy so fuck it. Let's all pretend we are going to finish in the top 4 and ... what was it someone said on here yesterday? ... win the Europa Cup, ha! ha!! ha!!! With this squad!?!
FFS, I am not Interested in Owen or any other shithouse coming to the club but I am worried that the "seen it all before" scenario is starting again already this pre-season... WHY is that so hard to grasp?
20 Posted 08/07/2009 at 12:07:06
All of this is guesswork and whilst it’s fun to speculate and dream, over the coming weeks, we will all be excited, surprised, disappointed, deluded, frustrated, indignant and buzzing. We definitely need some more creativity and pace in the team if we are going to secure at least 5th again next season (IMO), but I do trust Moyes overall to get it right.
To be fair to Tony, he may be over zealous at times, even over critical, but there is a lot of what he writes that makes sense and at the end of the day, there has been a history of screw-ups now and then when it comes to transfers. I just hope we get some quality in sooner rather than later, as we don’t want a repeat of the start we had last season.
Just out of interest, Kurt, have you always lived in America or did you move recently, as we are looking to move there in the next few years?
21 Posted 08/07/2009 at 12:25:11
"It’s not just about him [Moyes]" and "FFS I am not interested in Owen". Those two comments are what the whole fucking point of your article is about. And your comments about Moyes picking Rodwell are ridiculous. We can all see the lad is class and deserves a run of games. Moyes trains with him every day, yet you think just because Ziralex is sniffing around, that’s why Moyes is going to play him? Fuck me, come on Tony are there any other wild conspiracy theories you can throw out there?
I appreciate things at Everton are a mess when it comes to finances but I would much rather hear how you would put things right at Everton and how realistic that is rather than your constant bitching at our manager and the club.
22 Posted 08/07/2009 at 12:36:29
With regards to Owen though, I think quite a few clubs were sounding him out simultaneously, I don't see how people can blame Moyes for letting him slip through his fingers. If Man United hadn't come in for him (and honestly, who saw that coming?), the player would have probably stalled for a month before choosing between us and Villa. I really don't see how Moyes could have played the situation differently, except maybe swooping to offer higher wages than the lad is worth.
23 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:29:48
We have signed by all accounts two very decent young players under 17 years of age in Mustafi and Orenuga. If rumours are true from the player himself, make that three with Garbutt ready to also sign shortly. Now I know that these might not be ready for a couple of years or so, but I’d rather us start now building a great foundation at Finch Farm so that in a few years we have a young side of hungry footballers capable of challenging the big 3. Given the state of our unfortunate finances, this may be the only way.
I am, however, intrigued where you got your info regarding how much money we have to spend this year, but I reckon we’ll see at least two top draw players coming to the club, with the likes of Delph, Ledley, Naughton and Defour being touted around. Along with a few players on a free and other loan deals to bost numbers (Peterlin, Jo etc).
Losing AvdM, Valente and Nash is nothing. Between them, how many starts did they make in the league last season? Was there even one between them?
As for Castillo and Jacobsen, I would have been livid if either had been signed up. Both were terribly poor and wouldn’t have made any squad I’d pick now. I’ll enjoy watching Pienaar murder him next year at Ewood Park (if he even gets in their team).
Here’s the way I see it... If they’d both been offered extensions to their contracts, do you think Moyes would go out and get another more gifted (not hard) right back and central midfielder... I think not. And then what would your subject topic be, Tony?
24 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:53:25
To be honest, mate, you lost all credibility with me yesterday when you posted that your favourite Wembley Cup Final moment was when Gobshite Everton fans pelted Chelsea players with lager cans.......Yes you've really got your finger on the pulse, lad.
25 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:59:41
26 Posted 08/07/2009 at 13:57:06
I dont understand why we keep signing players like Lescott, Jagielka, Pienaar and Fellaini. And he keeps signing promising youngsters. pfft
We all know that our Chairman keeps saying that we have zillions to spend, so why arent we out signing all and sundry?
If I was the manager.....
27 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:06:04
I still want to join Marseille," he told L’Equipe. "I have met my Cameroon team-mates and they all told me l’OM is a great challenge.
"My priority is Marseille. We have to find an agreement. The Englishmen? I don’t want to hear about them."
We do we keep missing out on these top players? Get it sorted Moyesy!!!!
28 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:10:58
Until then, theres always this list of free agents to mull over.
29 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:14:01
30 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:21:31
31 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:20:15
Tony, whilst you are more of a half-empty man, as opposed to my being half-full, and whilst I understand some of your points, I refer to the above. By your own admission, it can be implied that neither Jacobsen or Castillo added much to our first XI. Well, surely we want to improve don’t we? It’s not a case of Hibbert and Osman staying — neither of them are out of contract, and it would not be worth selling either for a number of reasons.
Jacobsen was terrible in a few games last season, most notably at Sunderland, and I agree with better the devil you know in Hibbert, or Neville even if we sign a midfielder. There is also the young Coleman. As for Castillo, I think playing Lampard off the park is a bit OTT, but that game and the Liege home tie aside, he was also terrible, and certainly not worth £4m or even £1m!
It’s easy to get frustrated with Everton, but perhaps a bit of perspective is required. We are only in early July, we have not lost any players who were of any significant importance, and our club, which is in such a mess apparently, have just had arguably our best season in Prem history as well as signing a new deal with a major kit retailer and already surpassing all targets for season tickets. We look good for signing Jo again on loan, we have added a number of younger, lesser known players to our ranks over the last 12-18 months (Coleman, Mustafi, Orenuga, Gosling, Peterlin) and we have 4 players to return from long term injury.
As for the basis of the post, it’s all stories, and nothing more. If Moyes had talked to Owen, he couldn’t have signed him 'til July 1st. Owen would not have signed a contract so quickly with us but, as some have said, why would he turn down the Champions? I wouldn’t have minded him on a free, but Jo on loan is the better deal, and maybe Moyes saw it like this too?
32 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:44:22
Now in non-sarcastic mode Osman and Hibbert are still shite and Moyes is still a ditherer and since Osman was obviously more worthy to play than Rodwell in the Final - Remember that on!?
Oh and Kenwright still has no money even though, in the season preceding this, we received £47 million from the league plus money every time we were on Sky, and in our Cup run and gate receipts. But remember he is trying hard, 24/7 for investment.
33 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:33:36
Now, if you support BK or you are against him, the figure you quote should be enough for Moyes to walk out on the club. After all the hard work DM has put in over the years, to be given such a pathetic sum to spend is criminal neglect by this chairman of ours.
The chairman is where your anger or questions should be aimed and not at me. I am just a fan who worries at the shennanigans at the club and who becomes dismayed with the slack attitude of some of our fans.
If you think its just me, go to the mailbag and look at the comments on the "Jo deal collapses" post.
34 Posted 08/07/2009 at 14:51:32
I know I’m not Tony... but Benoit Cheryou. Superb player.
35 Posted 08/07/2009 at 15:13:38
Also, if you know what your point is then why don’t you make it? You start off with a long rant about us not signing Owen, then decide in fact your not talking about Owen. You have a go at Moyes then deny it’s Moyes’ fault. So I apologise if I don’t quite get your point.
I have invited you on this occasion and in another recent post to discuss how you would put the problem right yet you still seem unwilling to offer an opinion on that because all you want to do is moan. It’s getting tedious.
36 Posted 08/07/2009 at 15:27:50
If you disagree please find the offending article.
It's not my concern where fans come from, the more the merrier in fact, but I wish more of you actually took your heads out of the sand and realised the direction we will be heading in if the present Chairman and his board are allowed to continue in this manner.
Yes we finished 5th again and made it to Wembley twice... YIPP FUCKING HEE — but where is the blueprint for the next 5 to 10 years??? Is the plan to just spend fuck all and let Moyes try to work miracles every year, then slip some juicy "we where in for blah blah but he went elsewhere" statements to keep the fans happy while selling our soul to Knowsley Council and Tescos???
If you think not then please tell me what's been going on for as long as Kenwright has been the Boss? I must have it all wrong mate.
37 Posted 08/07/2009 at 16:15:24
Then Tony says: Alan, please try to understand my point and dont tell me what it is, I know what it is. It’s not just about the Owen transfer, is it?
Tony says: Lars Jacobsen is another mystery. Miles better than Hibbert yet he too is shown the door after doing nothing wrong and being under-used. Why?
Terry (that's me) says: He was injured for ¾ of the season and match-fit for about 3 games.
Tony says: I find it hard to take that we fans play the "Guess who’s coming to play for us?" game every day yet don’t utter a word when decent lads are shown the door. What’s that now, then — 4 or 5 out and none in?
I say: AVDM... ha ha ha...Valente... finished, Nash... never started. Jacobsen... (see previous) Castillo... not good enough.
Tony says. (this is my favourite): Yes we finished 5th again and made it to Wembley twice... YIPP FUCKING HEE — but where is the blueprint for the next 5 to 10 years???
The record books state that Everton Football Club, despite having the 10th highest wage bill, and being the 13th highest spender in the transfer market in the last 6 years, have finished in a European place 3 seasons on the trot, have made it to a Cup semi-final 2 years on the trot; and are currently buying young talent in an effort to avoid having to add to the crippling debt suffered by the majority of the English Premier League (This may actualy be a blueprint for the next 8-10 years but they may keep that close to their chest.)
To sum up, as I'm allowed my opinion!! — one of the biggest loads of shite you have ever typed.
38 Posted 08/07/2009 at 16:33:35
39 Posted 08/07/2009 at 16:38:31
I distinctly remember you defending your decision back then when you called yourself Marsbar Madden. I didn't think you would be so cocky with yourself and about the clubs future after you where selling us down the river.
You make me laugh out loud. Pretending you care and all the time you are one of the main reasons we could end up in deeper shit than we are in now... (in my humble opinion). You sold us out and that's that so you stop the bullshit.
40 Posted 08/07/2009 at 16:51:48
I did vote Yes, and if I was wrong — which it now does seem I may be — well, I was wrong... See, that's not hard, is it? The day I am as wrong about as many things on a regular basis as you, I might just top myself.
41 Posted 08/07/2009 at 17:10:28
So have your say by all means but you ain't no one special that we should all take your word as gospel. In fact, I place little faith in your judgement after the you-know-what vote.
42 Posted 08/07/2009 at 17:22:17
I can’t help puzzling at the conviction you feel that you can somehow shame or guilt-trip thousands of Blues — who are mostly well satisfied after what almost everyone proclaimed was "a very successful season" (even though we won diddly sqwat) — into rising up and somehow ’disallowing’ (I love that bit) the Board and the management of EFC from doing (or perhaps NOT doing) what they will [not] do.
Come on, you have to be seriously deluded to think that any of the rather minor issues you raised would be enough to light a fire under anybody — especially when we are hardly a week into the transfer window. Surely even you can see that?
43 Posted 08/07/2009 at 17:38:38
But yeah, Tony Marsh, not to your usual standards this article, it’s a bit weird using Owen to start your article when you didn’t want him anyway.
With Castillo, I never thought he was good enough to be honest. It would cost quite a bit of money to buy him permanently anyway, and that money is needed to buy better players anyway.
Jacobsen’s kinda different. I admit he is better than Hibbert (sorry Dave Wilson) but I think this was down to the player himself. I reckon we probably offered him a one year deal with maybe lower wages, whilst Blackburn offered him a two year deal and would probably get more first team football.
I liked the sensible but not overcriticial Tony Marsh instead of over critical Tony Marsh, what’s happened to him?
44 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:02:28
The stories around his transfer indicated that this was indeed the scenario: Everton offered Jacobsen a one-year deal; he turned it down in favour of the two-year deal (and the likelihood of more footy) at Blackburn.
45 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:22:03
46 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:14:03
In that context, most are more than happy with Moyes as manager. He’s certainly not immune from criticism but most see him as the right man for our current situation — could become interesting if/when that situation changes.
Under the current regime, the club seem to be making gradual on-field progress. Whether that comparative progress will now be eclipsed by other clubs is a risk but it remains to be seen if their expenditure translates into on-field success.
I suspect you may just have to continue to bear your frustrations as we have another same-old, same-old summer. Maybe you just need to spend a little time counting your blessings, after all, being an Evertonian isn’t all bad.
47 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:53:27
It's not whether or not Castillo and Jacobsen were any good, it's the fact that they were signed and then not even given a chance to prove themselves. This happens countless times with Everton and the whole thing with this new american lad stinks of Eddy Bosnar! The club come out and say he impressed hugely on trial so is being signed up on a one-year deal.
Hmmmm... so good he gets a one-year deal! Wow, he must be good :S
48 Posted 08/07/2009 at 18:38:55
I’m guessing like me that he’s of an age to remember those halcyon days of the 80s, and maybe (like me) a touch further back too.
Tony, if you read this, try and understand me, mate. I’m not going to slag you and have a go because in one way I can understand your frustration, and THAT is what I feel you suffer from — that, and the refusal to accept a few things.
I think, like me, you’re frustrated that we have no realistic chance of winning the Premier League without a financial miracle. I think, again like me, that you look back and wonder where it all went wrong and why we didn’t "kick on" and continue our dominance of the mid-80s (we all have strong views on that one).
But I also believe (and this is where we differ, I think) that, where I have accepted that we have no God-given right to be, and probably never will be, a rich Sky Four club, you can’t seem to accept that. We’re in a league populated by ourselves, Spurs, Villa, West Ham, etc etc... and when you compare us to THOSE clubs (some of them with massive amounts of cash to waste), what we’re achieving is nothing short of miraculous — not something to settle for but something that we just HAVE to accept (for the foreseeable future anyway).
I can understand your need to lash out and blame somebody, somebody to take out your frustrations on... but, if truth be known, it’s one of those "that’s life" situations. Things haven’t gone our way, we’re not among the elite of the Premier League; on the edge, yes... but not quite one of them — and that, my fellow Evertonian, is the truth.
I happen to think that last season’s outcome was "almost" (and I stress almost) as good as we could have hoped for. Had we had that little bit of extra quality and won the FA Cup then in anybody’s eyes for a club in our present financial condition (a condition experienced by lots of other Premier League clubs) it would have been an amazing season.
Am I content with that? NO WAY! Do I want us to be up there in the elite? OF COURSE I DO!
I just accept that we’re not"...and it may be some time before we are again.... nobody's fault, that’s just how it is.
49 Posted 08/07/2009 at 19:04:02
If you as Brian has said were brought up on either the 60s or 80s great teams, then yes, our currrent ’sucess’ is probably not that good. However, if you look at any other generation of Evertonia, we are doing fairly well.
Yes there is an arguement that Kenwright is either mismanaging the club or is refusing to sell but, until that happens, we are what we are.
As fans we don’t pump vast amounts of money into the club. We aren’t typically the type that buy three replica shirts each year and all that goes with it.
At the moment the club is improving (regardless if we are at the level we would want) but we are sadly small fry compared to a lot of other clubs in the EPL.
As for dithering Dave — I would rather have a manager who is very careful with the limited funds he has and tries to make sure every signing fits in with the club than one who splashs it around. Just think of the players (like Nugent) who we were all desperate to get but are glad now.
50 Posted 08/07/2009 at 19:10:33
Castillo - sorry but I thought he was gash (Chelsea away apart)
Jacobsen - thought he looked good, certainly better than Hibbert IMO but fair play to him going for a two year deal and chances of more football.
Nash - According to the OS he is with the squad in Scotland.........
51 Posted 08/07/2009 at 19:33:59
No doubt you know the answer but it seemed Moyes didn’t want Castillio over shadowing his £15m midfield flop who’s only use is playing up front in a makeshift role. Remember that great goal Castillio scored in the Uefa Cup only to be dropped? He could shoot, tackle, run and play neat quick passes. Something Fellaini can’t do. Just what we needed in the Cup Final too. But the manager of the year is never wrong is he and of course he’s still learning. If only he’d read your advice about Osman and Hibbert.
52 Posted 08/07/2009 at 19:57:19
I think my problem is over expectation but what winds me up so much is the way today's Evertonian has no ambition other than being better than the Walter Smith years. Why is the bar set so low at our place yet across the park there would be rioting in the streets if the board treated them the way we are treated. I just don't get it.
Ged Dwyer, there is no point trying to pick fault with anything Moyes does as he is always right even when he is wrong in the eyes of some. Castillio could've been a good player at this club given the chance but with no fair crack of the whip, what do they expect from him?
Rodwell won't stay as he will get pissed about by Moyes just like Rooney did. For those who won't have it that Moyes farts about with players, two words for you: Per Krøldrup. Oh I forgot he couldn't head a ball... hah ha ha WHY sign him then?????
53 Posted 08/07/2009 at 20:17:53
Tony Marsh often talks bollocks, he’s no different to the rest of us in that respect, he will be critisised more than anyone else on this site because he puts his head above the parapet more often than anyone else, he knows this but he goes straight ahead and says his piece anyway, I hardly ever agree with him - see above - but I appreciate he initiates some of the best threds on this site.
But if he talks bollocks every day for the rest of his life he will NEVER be as wrong as you.
It’s beyond me how some one who argued so long and so vociferously for EFC to take the biggest gamble in its history should suddenly shrug his shoulders and casually say "I got it wrong"
I sincerly hope you are in a minority of one.
My appologees son, sometimes our passions run away with us and we lose perspective.
54 Posted 08/07/2009 at 22:07:06
I probably know the reasons as much as he does but its still fucking painful, plus I was only 4 in 1984 so couldn't've enjoyed the 80s the same way TM did.
I also agreed with the some of the retorts fired back at him by Terry Maddock but like Marsh & Dave Wilson above, it honestly pisses me right off to remember the debates on here, in the pub, the ground, and anywhere else about the vote and to now find that one of the most vociferous backers of the move has changed his mind???
Fucking shocking mate......you’ve sold us down the river and maybe if you looked at the points we were making at the time, you may of seen our point in time instead of giving the club carte blanche to possibly fuck us over long term.
55 Posted 08/07/2009 at 21:57:02
One sentance Moyes is dithering, then another sentance Kenwright isn’t giving him the money to buy players with. This doesn’t make any sense to me.
You have no proof whatsover we were in for Owen. We may well have been we might not. Just speculation.
Jacobsen, IMO, wasn’t good enough for the level we now aspire to. Neither is Hibbert. But Hibbert is already here so why bother gettting Lars on a two year deal when he is 29 and not that great. Pointless IMO.
Castillio -One decent game (Chelsea) and one great goal (Leige). Not worth the £4million quoted to buy him. IMO. We got him at a desperate time with only a week til the end of the August transfer window. Rodwell wll play more this year so no need for Segundo.
Tony always lays into Rooney generally a week before the Everton - United games. Calls him a traitor to the city. Now it’s Moyes ’Pissed’ Rooney about so which is it. More Rubbish from you.
You need to accept the best players will not come to Everton and when we get good players they will leave for bigger clubs like United. Same as any other industry. The best people work for the best companies.
Moyes can only work within the budget he gets from Kenwright. Does he make mistakes? Yes, like all of us.
United missed out on Benzema. This must mean Fergie dithered by your logic.
56 Posted 08/07/2009 at 23:33:20
I find myself to be 1 of the few younger Evertonians who craves for more than just this. But maybe that is just me.
57 Posted 09/07/2009 at 03:09:24
I am fairly confident that we all share the same ambitions — win the league. I and many others were happy with what we achieved last season, that does not mean we lack ambition or have lower expectations. That’s because finishing 5th is not the destination; it is a stop along the way.
To give you an analogy, a train does not go from Liverpool direct to Paris, it stops along the way. When the train stops at London, some of us will whinge that they are not in Paris, but some of us realise that London is on the way to Paris, so we are moving in the right direction.
58 Posted 09/07/2009 at 10:20:15
1. We get investment, buy better players, bigger squad and then are capable to challenge against them.
2. One of the teams, probably Arsenal or Liverpool, would play extremely badly, and we play extremely well, hence how we finished 4th last time with Marcus Bent as our leading striker!!
Sad but true... but I’m still hoping!!
59 Posted 09/07/2009 at 11:34:44
Have you also considered that maybe Owen didn’t really want to come to Everton and was holding off until someone ’bigger’ came in for him?
60 Posted 09/07/2009 at 13:34:13
Ben Jones, you have hit the nail on the head there.
61 Posted 09/07/2009 at 18:35:05
62 Posted 10/07/2009 at 03:32:14
As for the American, why give a long term contract to an unknown entity? This is how clubs get into trouble - let’s say we followed your way of thinking and gave the guy a 3 year contract. Moyes realises after 6 months that he’s no good, but we still have to shell out for another 2 and a half years to pay the dude, a la Van der Meyde. If he impresses early doors, you offer him an extended deal and unless he’s a greedy mercenary, he signs it. It’s called learning from your mistakes and running a prudent business - and I’d rather have it that way thanks.
63 Posted 10/07/2009 at 08:15:07
I think that explains the hatred of Osman and Hibbert, who IMO are nothing better than bottom 6 players, regardless of where they come from or how hard they try!
Last season had some memorable moments, especially Wembley and beating the Red Shite, but if that felt good, imagine how winning the league would feel?
I accept we can't do a Man City/Chelsea but the club needs to find a way of potentially making this happen. Where I disagree with Tony is that this is already in place with the signing of some of the most promising youngsters in Britain and Europe. They won't all be great and a few of them will be Scott Spencers, etc... but that’s probably the only way we can do it.
As with most things going right at the club, I feel that this is down to Moyes rather than Kenwright; however, maybe he deserves some credit for putting total trust in his manager, something you dont see that often anymore.
64 Posted 10/07/2009 at 13:53:35
First and foremost, Jacobsen WASN'T shown the door, he was on a one-year contract and talks were planned; however, he left because he knew he had more chance of starting games at Blackburn. We have also commenced talks TODAY with one of the most promising right backs around, Kyle Naughton. We’ve also tied up deals for three massively promising youth players, Peterlin is in and Jo should be in today.
With respect to Castillo, were we watching the same player? He is not at our standard and it would be stupid spending £3-5 million on a inferior central midfielder, especially as we have lots of options there and with rodwell’s emergence. We would be much better served spending the money on a real star, like Defour (allowing Arteta to play rightside) or a top right mid (Kranjcar for instance).
And are we really worried about missing out on Owen? I mean seriously? Our best formation is without a shadow of a doubt 4-5-1 and we have Yakubu and Saha (I'd prefer both to Owen), Jo coming in and Vaughan and Anichebe as young prospects. If we would have signed Owen, we would have had articles complaining about it. But now Man Utd have got him, it's presumed we have missed out.
How about having some faith in the man that has performed miracles for us? And if you don't, then at least pretend to, so I don't have to read anymore of these idiotic articles.
65 Posted 11/07/2009 at 00:56:25
1) Castillo? could be that he just didn’t like it over here. Now I’m no where near the blindly IMWT type, but even he can’t be that daft to not know that we do need some QUANTITY, as well as QUALITY.
2) Jacobsen? He, like Castillo, didn’t get too many chances. But I think they both did enough to earn another year at least. But, as Dennis says and others before him, Moyes and to be fair many other managers will have not outright favorites but at least those they will turn to first coz they know them inside out. Many will even go so far as to play this Mr dependable out of position rather than Mr Untried / Unknown IN position... Result: nose out of joint and thus off to Blackburn.
3) Owen? his reported wages are £40k plus cash per game... OK for MU with their cash to gamble on what is arguably, to them, a bit part player.... £40,000 PLUS is our TOP STARMAN... On his last 2 years form, he is only a very expensive James Vaughan, both potential sicknotes waiting to happen. But, while it might be said that JV has not got to the UNFULFILLED potential just yet, he still has time given an injury free season or two... Owen's potential is ALL BEHIND HIM... Not value for money, but maybe cheap at the price for SAF if he stays fit.
66 Posted 11/07/2009 at 01:29:37
5th is the new 1st ... No, sorry, wrong again.
Black is Black and 1st is 1st, the Gold medal winner, all the rest are just varying degrees self-delusion for not coming FIRST.
67 Posted 11/07/2009 at 08:13:09
68 Posted 11/07/2009 at 20:13:21
I am not sure why there is a sneering reference to Krøldrup at this point. Moyes has made transfer mistakes e.g. Wright and AvdM, but every Premier League manager has bought players who have not lived up to expectaions. Wenger bought Jeffers; Allardyce bought Barton; Redknapp snapped up Nugent; Ferguson and the FSW have mis-spent many millions...
Moyes made up his mind quickly about Krøldrup and shipped him out. I prefer to think of his many transfer successes rather than his few failures.
As for Castillo, perhaps he would have made a good Premier League player but Moyes saw a lot more of him in training than we did on the pitch, and certainly more than Tony Marsh. He was better placed and better qualified to make the judgement on Castillo and I suspect he made the right one.
69 Posted 11/07/2009 at 23:45:16
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