Negativity is an outward expression of deeply engrained psychological trait that has probably evolved as a survival mechanism. In this sense it has an affinity with cynicism. Paradoxically the early Greeks practised cynicism as a way of achieving happiness through the virtue of rejecting conventional social models. There’s an obvious link with the modern definition that describes cynicism as a ‘distrust of motives’.
That brings me on to Everton. I’ve always been of the opinion that fans can be generalised into two categories; the positives, and the negatives. While I accept that generalisations themselves are naturally flawed, I’m happy to stand by this one — given the daily hegemony on this very site that engages the negative/positive divide.
I’m of the opinion that differences should be celebrated. But a problem exists. Those of a positive disposition hold a seemingly contradictory position. They are negative about the negatives. You know the kind of stuff I mean…. ‘Oh typical negativity…zzzzz’; ‘bashing this, bashing that’; ‘same old negative rant blah blah’.
It appears that the positives consider negativity as a fundamental flaw that needs to be categorised and demonised, irrespective of the point being made. It’s not too often you’ll find a negative occupying this same position… apart from this article — which is a isolated call for a bit of understanding.
For me, the positives simply misunderstand the motives of the negatives. Just like the Greeks we are employing our negativity as a means of achieving happiness. We focus on what needs to be changed, whereas the positives primarily focus on what has changed. We are not negative because we ‘have no friends’, ‘need some prozac’ or ‘want to slit our wrists’… or any of the other inanely pejorative and frankly puerile retorts that are regularly posted on this site.
We focus on the negatives because of one simple reason. They are the things which we perceive to be wrong at this club. They are the things that need to be addressed in order to improve the club. While pointing out the positives may make some of you feel all gooey inside — it does not add to the debate about improving this club.
Football, and in our case Everton, incites a passion and ambition to be the best. It could be argued that the most obvious way of reaching this zenith is by focussing on those things which need to be addressed in order to make us the best. Under this guise negativity is a virtue to be heralded — not scorned, ridiculed and frankly misunderstood.
It’s about time that the positives stopped expecting everyone to conform to their ‘ray of sunshine attitude’ and simply addressed the points being made without a vacuous reference to the negativity of the point. Remember, the Greeks found cynicism as a way of achieving happiness, and the corellation with our situation is obvious.
If all the negatives at Everton were removed then I’ve no doubt we would all be happy. We may not be able to effect this change in any serious way, but respecting the debate, without attaching some kind of inane label to it — is a start. If that’s too much, how about just applying a degree of consistency — by being positive about the negatives???
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1 Posted 10/07/2009 at 15:09:24
2 Posted 10/07/2009 at 15:10:46
I’m an Everton supporter - that’s where it begins — that’s where it ends
So, Ciaren, why don’t you support Everton your way — and I’ll support Everton my way. Is that okay with you?
3 Posted 10/07/2009 at 15:10:50
Disappointingly good stuff though.
4 Posted 10/07/2009 at 15:28:11
I’d like to address a few different points you make, the first is a bit of tit for tat response that needs saying but isn’t worthy of much debate, and that is simply that the ’positives’ are often demonised just as much as the ’negatives’ for ’holding the club back’ with their attitude.
A second point is that positivity about what is good is vitally important in the future development of the club. If you point out a negative, then try to fix it, that’s good. But if you point something out and try to change it, but actually it was pretty good in the first place, you risk making it worse, thus the positivity is a vital part of the progress.
A third point is something you allude to when you say ’makes you go all gooey inside’ and that is that being positive is its own reward. The classic example of the glass half full/half empty sums this up. Its really a point about objectivity and subjectivity. There’s little you can say about Everton objectively except point out league positions, cup performances and so on. Everything else ends up being subjective, so it depends on your perspective as the observer. This means the ’positives’ are simply trying to enjoy being an Everton fan as much as possible, and see the ’negatives’ as failing to enjoy it, which might be bad enough, but it also comes across that you don’t want us to enjoy it either, which is why you get the silly comments from frustrated people who feel like they’re being made to feel stupid simply for wanting to enjoy being an Everton fan. Something which is hard enough in itself at times.
I hope I’ve put the put ’positive’ side across as well as you put the ’negative’, although I’ve been a bit distracted and will be happy to clarify anything I haven’t explained well enough.
5 Posted 10/07/2009 at 15:37:57
Take your linguistic snobbery back to your New York shrinks’ office.
6 Posted 10/07/2009 at 17:00:43
7 Posted 10/07/2009 at 17:06:12
You’ve given me a headache!!!
8 Posted 10/07/2009 at 17:17:19
You may both dislike Ciaran’s attitude, but a caveman grunt because of his use of language is just too, too disappointing of you both.
Still, on the positive side, good to know that there are still football fans frolicking around the stone age of linguistic development.
9 Posted 10/07/2009 at 17:20:45
Negativity has nothing to do with wanting to improve things, its simply an outlet for people to vent frustrations from within their own lives.
Battle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster yourself, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you.... and all that....
So, basically, the more you talk about it - the worse you’re going to get.
So cheer the fuck up.
10 Posted 10/07/2009 at 17:56:10
Ciaran is right — psychological predispositions will affect our attitudes to what we see and hear around us. But there are two flaws in his argument. First, one of equivalence. Aside from a handful of unshakeable happy clappers for whom the club and its management can do no wrong, most of the people that Ciaran labels ’positives’ tend to take a balanced view of events on and off the field, being critical or downhearted where and when it is justified. In contrast, there seems to be a mini army of Toffeeweb doom-mongers who will always seek the worst possible motive or scenario, irrespective of actual events.
Second, the argument that these dispositions have ’nothing to do with football’ is misleading. Attitudes have to be expressed in actual claims and comments about the football. My problem with the doom mongers is that their claims are frequentely proved to be wrong, but it doesn’t make the slightest bit of difference to their next comment. A number of people have been on the site in the last week saying that there is no chance that the club will sign anyone or spend any money at all over the summer or until the last minute. We appear to be on the verge of re-signing Jo and signing one of the most promising right backs in British football. Will this make a difference to their negativity? Any chance of even the slightest slice of humble pie? Watch this space...
Meanwhile, I’m off to cheer myself up by watching Ry Cooder and Nick Lowe.
11 Posted 10/07/2009 at 18:27:31
Re-"Stone age of linguistic development, My point was simply to take objection with Ciaran’s insidious, self-serving guff regarding, what I will refer to, in keeping with the ancient Greek theme: The Everton Complex.
What gets my goat is that the biggest instigator of sly put downs bangs on for 9 bloody paragraphs, stating what can be summed up in 5 words: We Have Differing Opinions Here! The fact that it’s dressed up as some kind of altruistic psychoanalysis, smacks of absolute hypocrisy.
Last week, he referred to Alan Kirwan as being "sanctamonious and myopic," and every withering, superior rebuttal, could have come from Oscar Wilde himself.
The point is: We can all use big words. But to demonstrate that ability at EVERY feckin’ opportunity IS linguistic snobbery, simply because you want to pass yourself off as smarter than others: You wouldn’t call someone "sanctamonious and myopic," down your local on a Friday night, would you?
But this is Ciaran’s raison d’etre... it's why he posts regularly.
Finally, I’d like to politely object to being pegged a caveman by you. I studied language, and can answer any response in no fewer than 4 foreign tongues.
But we don’t always have to show off. Particularly as he’s putting up such a weak defence of his daily mean-spirited provocation of others...
12 Posted 10/07/2009 at 19:28:09
13 Posted 10/07/2009 at 19:32:51
My old man warned me away from people like your good self and Marshy when I first started going for a pint with him.
" keep away from that fecker, he’s only happy when he’s crying."
No mention of any Greeks until closing time.
14 Posted 10/07/2009 at 20:02:25
Negativity is ok. Without it, this site wouldn’t be worth looking at.
15 Posted 10/07/2009 at 20:27:21
But now we have finished top six three years in succession and have by far the strongest squad we have had since we last won the league. Worse still, we seem to be making signings that will help us challenge for a deserved place in the top four on a regular basis.
Now doesn’t that just spoil being an Everton fan? What right have these guys to take over our club, steadily improve it until we should be proud instead of ashamed. Where does that leave us?
I’m completely with Ciaran - life for those of us who love to whinge at the club has been really spoilt by Kenwright and Moyes. So let’s do it properly - sell out to Gillet and Hick, bring back old Walter, and get Carsley back from Birmingham.
There – I’m starting to feel better already. Thanks Ciaran.
16 Posted 10/07/2009 at 20:23:08
You want your team to win every game but they can't; you don't want to get knocked out of the cup... but you will be. Manchester United won the Premier League and the Carling Cup... yet suffered disappointment in the Champions League. Their forums where full of complaints about SAF and the team he put out etc, certain players not up to wearing the shirt. So it doesn't matter how good your team is, you will still be disappointed..
Are the Man Utd supporters who believed that they should have won every competition they entered being negative? Or are they being unrealistic, as it's never been done before?
Are Evertonians who see Everton achieve their highest ever points total in the Premier League and then complain that we should have done better being negative? Or are they being unrealistic in their expectations, on occasion using the clubs motto as a stick to beat the Evertonians who are overjoyed at what they see as a step in the right direction?
It's highly subjective, success. Whereas I see a consolidation of our position as "best of the rest" and a Cup Final appearence as success, others will see it as less points than last season and falling at the final hurdle.
The "negative " side, such as Ciarán McGlone (no offence meant) tend to infer that because they demand nothing short of victory every game, and feel the need to find a scapegoat, be that the manager, or Osman, Hibbert, Unsworth, Ebbrell — even Dave Watson at one point — when its not forthcoming. That they are a BETTER type of supporter, more knowledgeable in football matters, with the club's best interests at heart.
I myself disagree... but not totally...
If the"negatives" did as Ciarán says, and pointed out our deficiencies in a constructive manner, with suggestions on how it could be corrected, then as well as differences of opinion being batted back and forth we could also have constructive debate.
My problem lies with the "negatives" who simply make a broad statement, such as "Osman's shite", in which case a counter argument would simply be "Osman's brilliant". End of debate.
On the positive side we do of course have our own blinkered souls who will simply refuse to accept any criticism of the board, manager or players — even if that criticism is well written and constructive...
The retorts and name calling that Ciarán metions tends to occur when example A from the negs meets example B from the pos or vice versa...
So, in my opinion, it's not that negative is good or bad, or the same for positive... it's just that certain types of negative and positive are bad... especially when confronting eachother.
On that note, I'm looking forward to Jo with a full pre season, Kyle Naughton and Uncle Tom Cobbly and all... COYB
17 Posted 10/07/2009 at 20:37:38
But hey, whatever floats your boat, you can support Everton however you want and it’ll be fine with me. Plus this site would be pointless without all these clashing opinions, which is why I love it!
18 Posted 10/07/2009 at 21:17:30
You lucky, lucky bastard!
19 Posted 10/07/2009 at 20:46:26
I lol’d at your post, you accuse the negative fella of linguistic snobbery , then do your level best to top him — you failed by the way.
Your "we don't all have to show off" claim was cringeworthy... Perhaps you should have discretely mentioned you speak 4 languages.
Ciarán is a blue and as such he deserves respect, his mean spirited cynicism is merely his — and apparently the Greeks' — way of pursuing happiness.
20 Posted 10/07/2009 at 21:27:05
Some people on this site seem to think being a good fan is saying nothing but niceties about the team, staff and board. Me personally, I support the boys when I go the match each week and if I have something to get of my chest I do it on websites like this rather than at the match whilst the boys are playing.
21 Posted 10/07/2009 at 21:39:48
Respectfully, you are wrong in your droll assessment of my motives: It’s not a literary willy-waving contest.
I was simply reminding everyone,that this is same guy who pipes up and pompously slaughters everyone, yet today posts a smug "Vive La Difference," piece, dressed up as pseudo-intellectual social anthropology, as another excuse to flex his knowledge of big words.
The only reason I threw in a mention of my own language skills, is because some guy called me a caveman, having missed my original point !
Again. Not a pissing contest — I wasn’t asking for a medal. Cheers.
ps: Not sure if it was a typo, but I’ve no idea what "lol’d," means...
22 Posted 10/07/2009 at 22:41:12
23 Posted 10/07/2009 at 23:53:32
24 Posted 11/07/2009 at 00:08:39
My experience goes like this: I watch an Everton player, let’s say Arteta, do something really nice; I say , "Wow, Arteta did something really nice" and that is considered ’positive’ by the sages on here that determine such things.
Conversely, in the same game, I watch an Everton player, let’s say Osman, do something really poor; I say , "Pftui, Osman did something really poor" and that is considered ’negative’ by those same sages.
To me, they are merely different shades of the pastime I call "post-match analysis". To Mike Green, one is simply an outlet for venting frustrations from within my own life?!? While presumably the other is something wonderful and uplifting???
Sorry to be negative, but I think that’s a load of crap.
25 Posted 11/07/2009 at 00:12:44
If our Manager stated he had a small squad, but probably the best in the league when fit, then how would this work on the players when they are out on the pitch? To hear everybody saying we need better is actually telling our team they are not good enough. This would not make the staff of any organisation very motivated. Why not state we just need more of the same to guard against injury?
I think Moyes was getting nearer when he said that, if we lost the Cup Final, then we would certainly win something soon.If you are told you are not the best then when you play somebody like Chelsea then the outcome is in your head before you start.
A Brian Clough DVD might be a good purchase for our Manager. Other than that it is getting better.
26 Posted 11/07/2009 at 02:13:00
I’ve got to admit it’s getting better
A little better all the time
(It can’t get no worse)
27 Posted 11/07/2009 at 02:24:57
A good percentage of the negatives can remember some of the before first hand and having seen 1st place, topclass shit hot teams and performances, know instinctively that 5th is not the new 1st, just better than 6th 7th etc
Positives; Dodd, etc wrong but romantic
Negatives; Marsh, etc right but repulsive.
28 Posted 11/07/2009 at 03:12:47
29 Posted 11/07/2009 at 06:39:35
My what a huge vocabulary you have there.
If this isn’t a Literary willy waving contest already, then don’t bother letting me know when it develops into one — I won't notice the difference.
I wouldn’t dream of asking you to dumb down, but as this is a site for Evertonians do you think next time you post you might try to squeeze something in about the, er... Everton? Preferably in English
Oh btw, it wasn't a typo, it was a demonstration.
30 Posted 11/07/2009 at 07:54:33
Interesting responses to what was essentially a tongue-in-cheek article. So I guess it had the desired effect... People will never change the way they express themselves about Everton — and long may it continue.
Kevin Hudson, If you paid as much attention to the posts I’m responding to as you do mine, you’d have noticed that the term ’myopic’ was lifted directly from the previous AK post, in which he used the term himself. By the way... do you often criticise verbosity by using words such as ’eviscerate’?
Or accuse people of trying look intelligent while telling everyone you speak four languages?
31 Posted 11/07/2009 at 08:10:56
32 Posted 11/07/2009 at 09:41:40
I know we are not supposed to say who can post and what but it does get a bit much when you have the same posters again and again telling us how good/bad a situation/game/player is.
Just a heads up, Negativity and Positivity expressed on a football forum has absolutely no effect on what happens on the pitch once the corrupt offici.... sorry, once the ref blows his whistle — and to think otherwise is just pain madness.
33 Posted 11/07/2009 at 09:24:46
Michael K has got it half right, in as much as most people experience a normal range of emotions when musing about their football team, and most can also put it into its true context.
Unfortunately, Mr McGlone has a less than tenuous link with such normality. It is precisely because this particular individual feels motivated to contribute on almost any topic in exactly the same way, not just negative, but often sneering, derisory and just simply mean, that irritates many regular readers & contributors.
Toffeeweb is not an intellectual wank, or a forum for taking the piss, or for out-smarting people. It is for Evertonians to share experiences, air views, positive and negative, and yes, to provoke thought. There are tons of people, Tony Marsh and Jay Harris to name but two, who are up on some things and down on others. But are broadly respectful of counter-views.
This article is meaningless... tongue-in-cheek even, as its author acknowledged. It means not a jot. When normal service returns you will find Mr McGlone incapable of suppressing his need (intellectual apparently) to piss on other people’s fireworks with monotonous, wrist splitting regularity.
Negative is not the new positive. However the perpetual nay-sayers try to justify their drone, it is often a reflection of how we each view the vicisissitudes of life itself. We all prefer it good, like we all want Everton to win everything. But when it doesn’t happen you have options, ranging from tearing your hair out, to blaming all & sundry, to cracking on with it and being grateful that we are so much better than we were a decade ago.
As for the reasons behind our relative transformation, that’s a whole new bunch of threads.
Don't be fooled by sophistry or intellect. Unless you find James Joyce titillating, this is not a man you’d like to share a pint with.
Editor's Note: Alan, if you are going to enter the Big Word arena with ones like "vicissitudes", ya just gotta spell it right or it spoils the whole effect.
34 Posted 11/07/2009 at 09:44:59
35 Posted 11/07/2009 at 10:03:10
Come on lads, can we get back to the football now.
36 Posted 11/07/2009 at 10:04:17
37 Posted 11/07/2009 at 10:27:59
Don’t go slitting your wrists now! You are allowed to be happy.
38 Posted 11/07/2009 at 10:18:18
I think there is a third position, which I like to think of as the ’Realist’ position (I think Alan Kirwan is the other poster on Toffeeweb who comes closest to this IMHO - although Alan can certainly speak for himself).
Us Realists are actually quite negative in some ways. We believe, for example, that we don’t have much money as a club relative to others, and that this is quite a big constraint on us. We don’t believe that a sugar daddy is around the corner, and we worry that the cure anyway might be worse than the disease. We believe that we have no dvine right to beat so-called ’smaller’ clubs than us (never mind bigger clubs like Chelsea just by playing Rodwell, as was suggested on here recently). Some of us even believe we might have to go to Kirkby, because we don’t have any better options in our currently poor state (although we would much prefer a ground share — the only sensible solution).
In short, we are not that positive about the world and our club in grand terms. We believe that we fell from the top tier in the late 1980s, and are going to find it pretty difficult to get back. Although bit by bit, with stability being the watchword, we may just do it.
In short, we believe that Nil Satis is a great aspiration that we should not lose, but not something that reflects our current status in the world.
On the other hand, us Realists find ourselves fighting quite a lot with the Negatives such as Ciaran. Why? Because they are not very realistic! Take Osman and Hibbert. Fine to criticise them. Does anyone on ToffeeWeb seriously think, for example, that they are as good as Baines and Pienaar (let alone as good as, say, Cole and Malouda)? Of course not. But the Negatives trumpet this as if it has nothing to do with the essentially Realist fact that, currently, they are all we can afford. It seems in our next round of spending — come in, Mr Naughton — we are scraping the pennies together to address this weakness. That is how it is in the real world.
I could go on: Everton play defensive first football, Moyes is cautious, we should build our own world class stadium in the city, Kenwright should find the money for £20M players etc. etc.. etc..
Oddly enough, to us Realists these are not so much Negative positions, as Romantic positions. Forget our current actual real state, we should watch flowing attacking football every week in the Merseyside equivalent of The Emirates. This is just not Real!
To the Realist, the arch Positives and the arch Negatives finally look much the same. Both of them have lost touch with the real world and our current place in it. The Positives (Doddy et al) think we are already in Nirvana. This is utterly crazy. The Negatives (Marshy, Ciaran etc.) think that Nirvana is owed to us and is only just around the corner if we just got rid of Kenwright. This is utterly naive.
Nirvana is not coming to us anytime soon. So us Realists try to get some pleasure from the fact that, although we are a gulf away from the top four currently on all dimensions, we have actually done pretty well in recent years and our club is certainly more on the up than the down. Is that Positive or Negative?
39 Posted 11/07/2009 at 10:17:42
40 Posted 11/07/2009 at 11:09:39
I’d be interested as in the past you have made some very astute observations. Although these are usually tempered with stinging criticism of certain individuals.
41 Posted 11/07/2009 at 11:15:15
You’re nothing but a hypocrite... and a scorned one at that.
42 Posted 11/07/2009 at 12:23:14
43 Posted 11/07/2009 at 13:23:06
You are absolutely priceless. In a discussion between the half-full / half-empty on this site you want to introduce a third more enlightened party... The Realist.
The realist enjoys a clarity of vision he occupies a higher plain and warra ya know... you are one of them!
You’ve spouted some shite in your time but that takes the biscuit.
Don't get me wrong, you are very obviously an intelligent man, but I sometimes read your posts and think you’ve probably stayed in for the first 38 years of your life, I’ve met trappist monks who are more street-wise.
You’d believe there was fairies at the bottom of your fucken garden if Bill Kenwright told you so.
44 Posted 11/07/2009 at 15:57:17
I need a beer.
45 Posted 11/07/2009 at 17:00:02
On Kenwright, I don’t believe half of what he says, as it happens. I have criticised him many times on this site, and even called repeatedly for him to step aside for a richer owner. What is your problem Dave?
46 Posted 11/07/2009 at 17:41:45
You’re reasons for agreeing with Kenwright and the move to Kirkby despite all the figures and tangible proof against Kirkby was quite simply and I quote you "why not?" — if that's not blind optimism... In fact, I would call it irrational... particularly when you look at the credibility the man who is leading you there has.
Anyway, Neil, I'll leave you to get battered again on everything from finances right back to the NTL deal.
And Neil, Kenwright's club's finances are not on the up by a long way — let's get that straight. I gave you figures the other day on a thread and you offered weak excuses about how we were doing relatively well when compared with other clubs. As usual, you disappeared when the figures I provided showed Blackburn's very healthy equity and income gearing figures.
47 Posted 11/07/2009 at 19:12:36
I’m not angry, but I was really annoyed earlier when I read your post
You said : "we realists believe we dont have much money as a club, relative to others". You also claim you (realists) "dont think there's a sugar daddy around the corner" and that "we (the realists) don't believe we have a divine right to beat so-called smaller clubs".
Sorry mate, these are not the exclusive thoughts of the "realists"; by claiming that, you’re insinuating that the rest of us can't see the blindingly obvious.
I’ve read my post again and accept, I was out of order, it was a bit of a two-footed challenge, but I’ve read yours again and I’m afraid I still find it insultingly patronising.
48 Posted 11/07/2009 at 20:44:58
It’s not perfect, but life as an Evertonian never is. Life itself never is. Negitivistas, Positivistas, I wish you both well, you both have to read the same news. I wish I could call myself a Realista, but I can’t, because I’m an Everton fan. When we’re good, we’re very, very good. When we’re bad, I suffer. But whatever we do, I can always talk to my Da about us.
We’re not Manchester United. We’re not Chelsea. We’re not Arsenal. We’re not Liverpool. We’re not Plymouth Argyle or Carlisle United. We are Everton. Summus quod summus.
49 Posted 11/07/2009 at 23:14:01
You’ve basically said ’everyone else has there crazy extreme point of view, but look at me, I’m the rational one and if only they could think like me’ while simply putting forward another subjective viewpoint.
We’ve been talking about ’positives’ and ’negatives’ as if it's a real dichotomy, but it isn’t. The truth, as ever, is that almost everyone is both at different times and about different things. There simply is no middle way between them, there’s just different combinations. The idea that some people out there are the ’realists’ and they actually properly understand what’s ’really’ going on, is about as stupid and arrogant as you can get.
There is no ’real’ apart from our actual league position or performance in cups. This means all you’re allowed to say as a ’realist’ is ’we came fifth and got to the cup final’, you can’t even add ’and that’s good’ or ’and that’s not good enough’ because they’re subjective judgements.
For everything else, abstract concepts like ’progress’, or ’improvement’, judgements are going to be subjective, this means that ’real’ simply doesn’t exist, so to claim to be a ’realist’ is just to be the same as everyone else but uniquely blind to that fact. At least everyone else realises it.
50 Posted 11/07/2009 at 23:24:42
51 Posted 12/07/2009 at 02:35:25
So, all-in-all, labels are a bit of a movable feast and I have spouted before about the ability of fans and people to indulge in doublethink or even triplethink.
When we’re grouchie, it’s "turn that down!"; when we’re happy, we hum a long or at least tolerate what passes for music coming from the kids' room.... see what I mean? Get over it.
52 Posted 12/07/2009 at 03:07:36
Oh, hello, I thought, an article from Ciaran. And then... what exactly? Where were ’all the Everton things’?
I don’t wanna get into a slanging match with anyone, but I have only ever seen this guy post negative comments. There’s negative, positive and balanced, e.g:
your hair is great (+ve)
your hat is shite (-ve)
your hat is shite but your hair looks great (balanced)
I hope I have given you an insight into how I, as one of your critics (on one or two occasions) view your negativity. At the same time, feel free to have a negative opinion. But if you're gonna write an article, at least make it a good one (maybe a super negative article on your favourite shit player?)
53 Posted 12/07/2009 at 11:26:13
He then changed his name to Ciaran Mac Giollaeoin. It was obviously him, the same condescending arrogant attitude as before, he can’t help himself and he admitted it when I put it to him. He’s now back as McGlone banging on the same old drum.
54 Posted 12/07/2009 at 12:25:06
Before you predictably accuse me of hypocrisy, I will clarify, that with Ciaran’s track record of incitement, I thought he was wide open to the charges I made; on reflection, I agree fully with the point you made about my linguistic hypocrisy. Could I get away with classifying it as deliberate irony?? Probably not...!! So, I concede that point, and move on... fully expecting you to be one of these people to insist on having the final word... But you will probably now call my bluff!!!!
Yet I still have no clue what "lol’d," means: Ciaran also used it, and if the rumours about him being 13 are true, then I would assume it’s teenage text-speak, so your "demonstration," falls on deaf ears (or eyes) and your mockery of my language, laughable.
Ciaran, If it’s true that you are only 13, then I take my hat off to you. Winding people up is a lot of fun at that age! Your evident intelligence would spot being patronised a mile off, and I won’t do it. I liked your comeback, and in the context of you supposedly being teenager, I can regard your posts in a slightly skewed context.
That being the case, your posts are well-informed, entertaining reads! And I apologise for jumping down your throat, kid!
55 Posted 12/07/2009 at 13:52:50
Haven't you made enough of a tit of yourself for one thread? You tried to act superior and were deservedly ridiculed. Move on.
If you want to talk about Everton, great, I’ll debate / argue / agree with you till the cows come home. If you don't, then please don’t address your next post to me.
56 Posted 12/07/2009 at 14:39:44
He must have been drinking in the Royal Oak since he was nine.
57 Posted 13/07/2009 at 09:33:31
Michael - you’re right. What I meant to say is people who are consistently negative are the ones with issue.
Say I have a huge row with my missus at 2pm before trotting up the road to watch the game. I’m livid about what’s gone on, have a pint but it’s still in my system. 3pm kick off, ref makes a shocker of a decision and I go wild.
My third child is born. I trot up the road to watch the game, walking on air. I have a pint to celebrate. 3pm kick off, ref makes a shocker of a decision and I honestly couldn’t give a toss.
58 Posted 13/07/2009 at 09:42:16
Any half-wit can see what Neil is saying. That the "realists" as he calls them know & see all the same things as the perpetual whingers, but can more easily put it in context or get over it, or balance it out, because there are other reasons to feel good, or even more important things to get upset about.
It’s a quaint paradox that pretty much proves his point. Neil’s view seems to be you don’t have to vent your splein at the drop of a hat or always look to blame someone when something doesn’t go as you wished. And this view results in several spleins being vented at Neil himself because he dare suggest it.
He wasn’t suggesting superiority, just difference. Although a brief scan of the splein venting at Neil’s views suggests that some fans do feel intellectually threatened by this innocent & entirely peaceful observation.
59 Posted 13/07/2009 at 10:24:27
To even use the word ’realist’ in this context suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of ’reality’. As I said before, there’s no such thing as ’real’ in a football debate other than the cold hard facts of where we finish in the league and what round of the cup we get to. Everything else is just another opinion, and Neil’s is no more ’real’ than anyone else’s. Something which everyone else seems to realise except him, and perhaps you.
So, while any half-wit might see what he’s saying, us non-half-wit’s will take exception to it.
60 Posted 13/07/2009 at 10:43:51
Alan, Does it ever occur to you that Ciarán takes such obvious delight in systematically dismantling your points is because you more or less invite it, you continually portray yourself — just as Neil and Kevin have done on this thred — as somehow intellectually superior; you're not... and more to the point, if you were, you would impress no-one on this site.
If you want to impress us then do it through your knowledge of things Everton... otherwise you become the very thing you seem to want accuse everyone else of ... wrist-slittingly boring.
61 Posted 13/07/2009 at 16:06:24
He, on the other hand, knows it all!! Alan Kirwan makes a calm, balanced statement... and HE can’t help himself! That’s 3 people he’s offered out now. For God’s sake - someone get that man a woman!!!
Can I offer my position, in keeping with the supposed debate; taking my cue from Neil Pearse (who made SOME decent observations by the way) in declaring myself an Optimistic Realist. (And why the fuck are we arguing semantics, anyway; who cares?)
Or would I again, be dissappearing, up my own proverbial? If someone holds a view that happens to be dinstinct from his, apparently "they’re acting superior..." That says a lot, I think... Alan Kirwan gives him enough rope; and, he, again, kicks the chair from under his own feet. So, I fully expect another caustic and bitter riposte, hoping as he’s thinking one up, that he remembers he is not the site moderator, and that all opinion is not required to pass his unique test.
So jumped-up is he, that he specifically instructed me not to address my next post to him. His arrogant demand has been met... One must defer to superiority, I guess.....
62 Posted 13/07/2009 at 17:10:29
I’m now stepping away from it.
63 Posted 13/07/2009 at 19:25:04
64 Posted 13/07/2009 at 19:27:25
65 Posted 21/07/2009 at 10:37:25
A couple of weeks ago, right here on ToffeeWeb, a new type of Evertonian suddenly appeared. At first I thought they were few in number — two it was claimed at the time — but over the past week or so I have realised this was just a ploy to avoid detection; there is an army of them and they are right here amongst us, Their numbers grow every day, they are everywhere...
ToffeeWeb is under attack! It's slowly being taken over by... THE REALIST!
The Realist has no joy in his heart, he is without ambition... and his Raison D`étre is to crush everybody else's. As a Blue it is your duty to stop him.
The first job is to identify the "Realist"; be careful, he`s cunning and he won't always declare himself... but he may give himself away by using extremely long words in an effort to demonstrate his superior intellect and business acumen.
Look out for these tell tale signs:
1: He will react hysterically to any criticism of the club — especially the chairman;
2: The difference between a rich club and a big club will be totally lost on him;
3: Despite not attending the games, he will feel qualified enough to insist that Goodison has the cheapest seats, even though 10 Premier League clubs were charging less to watch Category A games last season;
4: He can - and will - give you a full and detailed account of Sir Philip Green's business pedigree... unfortunately, he won't be able to tell you a single thing Sir Philip has done for Everton;
5: He will overlook the fact that for years we`ve lagged behind clubs half our size when it comes to selling club Merchandise and, despite BK being at the helm, he will be exonerated of all blame, However, The Realist will proclaim the belated opening of a shop in Liverpool 1 as a stoke of genius;
6: Despite all evidence to the contrary, The Realist will tell you it would be impossible to build a stadium at the bottom of Scottie Rd... or to gradually re-build GP.
7 : When Keith Wyness insisted all alternatives to Destination Kirkby had been explored, it was The Realists who believed him;
8: The Realist will react angrily to anybody questioning Bill Kenwright's integrity — just because he has told one or two teeny weeny porkies;
9: He wants you to erase the club motto from your mind and never refer to it again;
10 : He will constantly talk down our club, He has no clue how much it's worth, or what the asking price is, but he can still tell you, with absolute certainty, that we are a very, very, very, bad investment
Beware The Realist!!!
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