I’m sorry but the lads need a fucking backbone. Yes, we have injuries but for Christ sake, if you go to Old Trafford playing one up front, you’re screwed from the start. I feel sorry for Louis because he runs his bollocks of every game but as he has no one up with him he just doesn’t get any breaks. Luckily when he gets one he tends to score but it’s so damn frustrating to see him running round without the ball. James Beattie did the same though he wasn’t as good a finisher as Louis, as did Andy Johnson and Yakubu looks like it would kill him to run around for a bit. If he’s not fit enough to put the effort in, take him out the squad and put on a young lad who would at least be willing to run himself into the ground for the team.
It got to the point last night watching the game that for the first time in my life I can actually understand why the likes of Wayne Rooney and Joleon Lescott have left Everton. Rooney wouldn’t have stood a chance upfront on his own and Lescott is now playing in a team that have a chance of achieving something, albeit 'til the bubble inevitably bursts. We’ve been shat on so many times by players with a similar ilk to the ones mentioned above but seriously, playing like we did against United smacks of putting out a team who have no expectations of getting anything out of the game. Yes, you can’t go into games against United expecting to win, but we, the fans at least deserve of seeing our team have a chance of winning, albeit a small one.
15 years ago when I became an Evertonian little did I realise what exactly I was signing up to. I’ve been through a lot of shit as an Everton fan, as has every other Evertonian. I suppose it must be worse for the older Everton fans as they’ve seen just how good it can get. My Grandad has seen us be the best in the 60s and the 80s so only god knows what he must have thought about last nights game. I don’t expect Everton to beat United at Old Trafford, I don’t even expect us to draw but I expect us to at least have a chance of getting a result and we didn’t yesterday.
I hate it when we don’t have a go at teams. Burnley are going out, getting results against teams with better players all because there having a go. I couldn’t give a shit about the style of play we use to get the results. If we hit it long and score great, if we pass it on the floor and win, even better. But at the minute were doing neither. Stoke are committed to how they play, they go out and kick the shit out any opposition and it bloody works. They all give 100% and all play for the cause. For me, it’s not the style you play, its how much effort you put in.
If the Old Dogs of War had played last night, we’d still probably have been beaten but Big Dunk would have at least kicked the living shite out of half the United team in the process. I’m not asking for us to become dirty (even though I do think we are too nice) just committed. We lack bottle, leadership and we have a manager who lacks the tactical knowledge for us to become anything more than a Europa League team. Benfica found us out twice but at least we gave it our best shot. However, I can’t say that about yesterday’s game.
Would Arteta have made a difference yesterday? Probably. But not 3 goals difference. That’s why the injury argument doesn’t hold up for me. If I played yesterday instead of Fellaini, I wouldn’t have had anywhere near the same quality as him but Christ I can honestly say I’d have given everything I had for that royal blue jersey. That’s what I think were missing, the passion and the drive. There was none of that yesterday apart from in a few players. The majority of the team were resigned to defeat before the game and that’s unacceptable, but it won’t go unpunished because Moyes expected us to loose too. The sense of defeat against top opposition will not go away for as long as he’s in charge. I’m not calling for his head by any means but he needs to realise that 4-5-1 doesn’t work against the top teams.
Every Tom, Dick and Harry can see that it just invites pressure back onto us. We get the ball up to Saha and he just runs into four brick walls with no blue shirt within 20 yards of him. However, all this will be forgot if we can beat Liverpool next week.
If I was Moyes, I’d rip into the lads and tell them just how big this game is. Gosling’s goal sent Goodison crazy last year and we need some one to do the same. I’d tell Johnny Heitinga to go out there and snap the fuck out of anything that moves. I don’t expect us to win, but for us to at least put up a fight. Nil Satis Nisi Optimum means only the best is good enough. If we try our best and loose I’m not bothered in the slightest, but when we don’t I hate it. If Liverpool trounce us but we can at least say we’ve put everything into it I honestly wouldn’t mind too much but if we do what we did vs United and roll over before the game then questions need to be asked.
4-4-2 vs Liverpool and 100% effort is all I want. If we do that we’ll have a very good chance but I just can’t see it happening. The players and manager need to start taking responsibility and earning their money. The way we played last night was terrible, the effort was even worse. We’re fucking Everton Football Club and we are better than that.
I’ll follow Everton in the 10th division if that’s were we ended up but as long as the team were giving their all I could not complain. Anyhow... Let's go out there next game and twat the fuck out of the Red Shite and completely end any hopes of them winning the league and if we loose? Let’s at least bruise a few legs in the process. COYB
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1 Posted 22/11/2009 at 07:35:05
I watched the whole game on the box. That United side would not have beaten us by 3 goals if Saha and Yakubu had started the game.
While I am at it — why didn't Tony Hibbert start the game? Yes I did say that. Evra was the man of the match; he wouldn't have been if Hibbert had started.
2 Posted 22/11/2009 at 16:56:06
Our problem lies in our midfield. The players fail to understand their role. Cahill should've been taken off the teamsheet as what can he do against Evra who managed to keep Messi subdued?
The signing of Fellaini still causes me much pain. He was a panic buy in my opnion because he seems to have no pace. Also, I think he is a 4-5-1 player behind the striker as he did well there last season.
3 Posted 22/11/2009 at 20:15:07
Heitenga is a better-paid Phil Neville. Cahill and Fellaini are both 'men behind the frontmen' players. Silvian Distin and Yobo have been poor. Yobo Is not a capable defender as he is a reaction defender, he cannot make decsions. Rodwell is slighly different but too often he's used a playmaker.
Let's accept we need the 3 points against Hull but more importantly against Liverpool. I think we should rough their defenders up bring Cahill back to his original role.
4-5-1 is not negative. 4-4-2 is stupid at Old Trafford as they would of still won. The derby hopefully will be great. Hopefully Torres and Gerrard or Babel play. I think we’ll draw with Hull but win the derby.
4 Posted 22/11/2009 at 20:17:04
I’m dreading this Derby coming up on Sunday. I pine for a manager with the Joe Royle "Dogs Of War" mentality when facing so called superior teams.
Moyes should re-run the videos of Lee Carsley's Derby goals, the 3-0 at Goodison and Dan Gosling’s winner last season and make them watch the reaction of Goodison to these goals to let the players see and know how much this game means to the fans. I know everytime I see them, over and over again, it still puts tears in my eyes and sends a magnificent shiver up my spine.
As I said, privately I’m dreading the Derby’s outcome, it has a sense of inevitability again...
5 Posted 22/11/2009 at 20:21:16
6 Posted 22/11/2009 at 20:43:57
7 Posted 22/11/2009 at 23:02:52
This cannot be good enough surely ?
8 Posted 22/11/2009 at 23:30:28
9 Posted 22/11/2009 at 23:58:36
It is patently clear that their basic approach to the game is a blackboard mentality with too much emphasis on the defensive half of the pitch. The attacking half is a foreign country to Moyes and his staff and they don’t speak its language.
I believe that Moyes is a devotee of Leeds Mgr Don Revies management style. The Don’s oft quoted words were, ’If they don’t score, you can’t lose.’ Granted, Leeds enjoyed some success under that credo but sadly it directly led to an era of mind numbing 0-0 or 1-0 games. That led to a nationwide drop in crowd numbers and resulted in the FA changing the points system from two to 3 points for a win. A big increase in 0-0 draws saw the football pools start giving priority to score draws.
In the millenia since Revie left the scene football has introduced massive improvements in entertainment, excitement, presentation and customer service. Sadly, it seems that Everton is regressing back to the Revie years.
The unchanged dilapidated environs of the old lady sits perfectly with our outdated brain-dead football. Or am I being just a tad to critical.
10 Posted 23/11/2009 at 01:32:50
I know 9-1 is beyond the realms of fantasy for us, but just suppose for a minute what Moyes would have done had been in Appy Arry’s place. At what stage would he have put the shutters up? 0-0, 1-0, 2-0???
11 Posted 23/11/2009 at 06:59:46
People have been screaming for a different right side to our team because the one we had, could ONLY offer commitment. NINE crosses came in from our right on Saturday, how can you go to OT and cope with that ?
Gosling was invisisble and the way our right back turned his back on Giggsy’s cross — after being caught in a coma in the first placed — showed you all you need to know about our commitment.
12 Posted 23/11/2009 at 08:09:56
The Cahill / Fellaini dilemma needs sorting I don't believe they can play together unless it’s Cahill up front with Fellaini behind , but with Saha’s form that is unthinkable. For me I tend to go with Fellaini as Timmy doesn’t seem at the races at present, I wouldn’t argue much if it where the other way round but I feel something needs doing.
Just for the record why haven’t we tried Rodwell wide, left or right he has to be better than Gosling or Cahill there ?
13 Posted 23/11/2009 at 08:32:42
Let's not hear more nonsense about injuries. Even with a full squad available does anyone believe we would have started with an attacking lineup? For example, Pienaar, Arteta, Rodwell and Bily in midfield with two strikers up front. No, it would be the usual safety-first let’s sneak a goal crap. Confidence has ebbed from the squad I really think David Moyes has nothing left to offer Everton.
14 Posted 23/11/2009 at 11:43:55
What got me was, when Utd attacked they had players up in numbers supporting the front players. When we attacked... Well, you know the scenario. No support from midfield and no options for the strikers.
You are so right when you say injuries are no longer an excuse. The way we play is unadventerous and predictable, it really is painful to watch.
15 Posted 23/11/2009 at 13:00:47
Owen Coyle anyone? His team play attacking football and he’s assembled a team that cost a lot less than ours.
16 Posted 23/11/2009 at 14:11:28
However ,that does not mean we should start erecting statues to him and according him messianic status. The tactics used at Old Trafford were down to David Moyes. Yes, 4-5-1 has worked well for us in the past, but Moyes has become virtually obssessed with playing the same formation. If we got drawn against a non-League team in the Cup I think he would still play that way!!
I don’t think you have to be a tactical genius to know that if you play exactly the same way in every match — then your oppponents will very soon work out ways to counter your tactics. If I play my mate at chess and I open with the same moves every match — then he’s going to work out very soon my tactics and how to beat me.
Yes, but what about the injuries? True enough we have been unlucky with injuries and that is the understatement of the season !! However consider these facts
a) It was known back in May, at the end of last season that Arteta, Anichebe, Yakubu and Jagielka had long-term injuries and wouldn’t be ready for the start of the season. Indeed it was doubtful that all of them would be back before Christmas.
b) We released Jacobsen, Valente and Castillo at the end of last season.
The result being going into the close season we knew that just in order to maintain "squad numbers" we would need to bring in 7 players.
The Close Season... what happened? For the second year running virtually nothing. Lack of money, lack of money, Moyes hasn’t got the transfer funds I hear the cry. Yes but there were plenty of loan players available and players out of contract.
The likes of Real Madrid, Barcelona,Inter Milan etc have surely got very promising young players who are kept out by big money, big name signings. They would be more than happy tp loan out these sorts of players. Often with the big Spanish clubs, the Club President rather than the coach will have sanctioned big money moves and the "star signing" will be played regardless of form, making it difficult for the up and coming players to establish themselves.
I believe that Patrick Viera was an Inter Milan Reserve when Arsenal signed him. How much did Wenger pay, I wonder? Probably at the time it was a transfer that made very few headlines. There were "bargains out there - whilst Moyes was trying to stop Lescott moving.
And which genius was it that decided to play Tony Hibbert in central defence against Benfica? He moans about the fact thet we were forced to play 3 games in 6 days — and plays virtually the same 11 players in all the games!!! Why on earth couldn’t he have given 3 or 4 youngsters a go against Spurs?
He then refuses to give TV interviews after that Spurs game? A protest or is he just warming up for the United job and doing a SAF job on the media ?
I hear that after the United game he was quoted as saying that "you can only undertand the tactics if you are a manager"! Perhaps he should pass on those ideas to Obama and Brown. Could you see either of them saying "You can’t criticise our tactics in Afghanistan — you got to be President/Prime Minister to fully understand the tactics"? No — I couldn’t either. It’s time David Moyes started to take responsibility — he’s paid enough for goodness sake.
Ask yourself this — Could another manager get more out of these players? I believe the answer to that is YES. Cahill can’t play in 4-4-2? Do Australia play 4-5-1? Fellaini and Pienaar both play in different roles for their national team. I think Moyes has stifled some of our players. Perhaps DM is starting to believe his own publicity.
17 Posted 23/11/2009 at 16:49:21
18 Posted 23/11/2009 at 22:00:36
19 Posted 24/11/2009 at 07:17:06
I stick by what I said - I fear that Moyes is starting to believe his publicity. And that he thinks that he is "fireproof".He is not, he is not bigger than Everton Football Club and I think it’s about time that he realised that and gone on with justifying his salary.
What was going on in the summer ? When other managers were strenghening their squads - all we got was speculation. And the Lescott affair !!! Words fail me. He let it drag on for weeks and then moans that we had less than 2 weeks to bring in a replacement !!!!If you want to make accusations of lack of commitment and pride then they should be directed at the Manager as much as at certain players.
Cahill can play in a 4 man midfield - he does that for Australia. Felani was clearly unfit at the start of the season - having been ill and lost a stone or so in weight. Yet Moyes picked him as he often picks players who clearly are carrying injuries e.g. Cahill v West ham at Goodison - when he lasted about 10 minutes.
It’s about time Moyes stopped hiding behind blaming the players and took a long hard look at his own performance.
20 Posted 24/11/2009 at 07:08:41
"We created some chances and, if you’re lucky, you’ll score one of them. But after that they made it 2-0 and the game was over."
i guess that says it all about the team attitude at the moment. since when was it over just coz you’re 2-0 down?? the Dogs of War would never have given up just coz they were 2-0 down! they would’ve given it they’re all right up to the 94th min, just for pride! Hull were 2 down to West Ham and fought back to draw 3-3. it really sickens me the lack of fight and pride in this current first team. Moyes is right some of them really do need to wake the fuck up, the amount of money they’re earning! if you give anything less than 100% every minute you’re on that pitch then you’re not worthy to wear the royal blue shirt!
21 Posted 24/11/2009 at 13:35:35
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