In the past few days, we have had the key executives of the club comment that the decision on Destination Kirkby will enable the split fan base to come together once more to David Moyes's personal perspective that he believes the decision may be a good thing for the club in finding investment and a new buyer.... My how a week changes one's perspective.
But by far the most annoying comes from the man himself: Bill Kenwright. "The Kirkby Chapter is closed".
Well, I have news for you, Mr Kenwright: It most certainly isn't closed. Under your stewardship, this club entered into an arrangement with Tesco that excluded all others, on the basis of a flawed scheme that would always fail legally. You were found out taking a gamble.
You and your Board must shoulder the blame for becoming involved in the first place, for causing the derisive split of the fan base that has set fan against fan and fan against the club. Your responsibility.
You have derided fans, gagged shareholders and ridiculed anyone who dared speak out or offer alternative solutions. Even when you saw the promises made sliced and diced to nothing you persisted.
Now, I ask you: Why should we, the supporters of this great club, get behind you, our leader? What respect have you shown us over the last few years?
And I ask you, Why should we have any confidence in the NEXT scheme you put on the table?
You have taken this club and made it a laughing stock in the city, washed our dirty linen in public and failed to lead us anywhere but Kirkby.
I woke up yesterday to find the rumours about the decision on Kirkby turned into fact. There was no joy in that decision, only relief. No joy because the wasted time and effort and money involved could have been used to explore and entice new owners or other alternatives.
Anyone looking at the club during the Kirkby debacle would think (correctly) that the club is in a mess, the fan base split and the executive are steamrolling a dubious option to the exclusion of everything else.
Hardly looking attractive was it?
I think David Moyes may well be closer to the mark when he says it could help the club. At least it gives anyone coming in to shape it their way. That has to be a plus.
Finally, I hope BK moves on to the things he knows best and leaves with good grace. Then the chapter will be closed.
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1 Posted 28/11/2009 at 05:39:32
I believe BK will now move on - the game has become so money-orientated over the past 20 years that he simply is out of his depth financially (and maybe in other areas!)
I honestly believe that with the DK chapter closed, BK will now listen to buyers (note: not investors). We’re back to the start on the stadium issue, but we may see new plans emerge quickly (Peel / Central Docks).
Watch this space (sorry!)
2 Posted 28/11/2009 at 05:03:01
Whilst the writing style of your articles might suggest that you are somehow more ’in the know’ than others, I remain 100% sure that in fact you actually know fuck all, like the rest of us.
What you are saying, is that BK should now move over and let someone else have a go. Well congratulations on this impressive assessment, but this is something the rest of the site have already been discussing for a long time. I think nobody except maybe Doddy believe it is time for a change of board. This is not a revelation. But as always, your articles state the obvious, focusing on BK as some kind of anti-christ. Your tone insinuates that running a football club is somehow easy, and BK has completely cocked it up.
"You have taken this club and made it a laughing stock in the city, washed our dirty linen in public and failed to lead us anywhere but Kirkby."
So our club was in a great position when he took over? Can you honestly say we are worse off under BK’s stewardship? Let me remind you of something that you have refused to acknowledge in your article, under Bill Kenwright Everton Football Club have undoubtedly improved.
What annoys me about your articles, is how you continuously drone on about BK, but very rarely discuss anything to do with football.
3 Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:17:06
Moyes didn't use the word rejection, he used the word decision. Just like Christine did.
Christine has a point, we all kinda feel let down here, it's not just the Yes voters who feel cheated, despite the relief felt by the people who voted No — we are all losers here. Two years lost and millions of pounds down the toilet is not good news for any Evertonian.
4 Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:35:32
The problem of course is how unattractive a proposition the club is now, needing an expensive new ground, and in the middle of a global recession.
Moyes might be best advised to stick to talking about matters on the pitch. Someone mega wealthy might well want to start with a club where there are no ideas and a clean slate. But even the Abu Dhabi boys bought a club which already had a new ground.
5 Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:06:38
A director of one of the companies involved in the whole process emailed me asking if I was happy about it (he was - he’s a season ticket holder, and we used to go to the away games together when I lived in the UK. I also worked for them).
Like many who have already commented, I didn’t feel euphoria, just shrugged my shoulders, as I knew a year ago it was screwed. And as I pointed out to my mate, at least their 3 years of fees were all paid up...
It was exactly the same with King’s Waterfront Development. Only that was far worse cos we really did miss out on the deal of the century with that.
6 Posted 28/11/2009 at 07:59:39
Elstone and Moyes are both calling upon LCC to come up with a site, given their history do you feel Kenwright + LCC could ever sit down together ?
My worry is it could be some time before a buyer comes in and the frosty relationship between the council and our chairman may hinder any sort of progress
7 Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:16:48
As you know, one of my reasons for supporting Kirkby was to get rid of Kenwright, Now I am less optimstic. The question now is whether there is anyone decent around with any serious interest in the club given its large investment needs in the current environment. Kenwright and the other owners will hopefully now settle a la Ashley for a discounted price (although it didn’t help Ashley). But the reality is that the cost of buying the club will be less than the cost of building a new ground. There’s the rub.
Perhaps at least Elstone is not too tarred with the past, so that might help. But our problem is poverty, nothing much else. Amazing how much easier it is to have good relationships with people if you have a lot of money.
8 Posted 28/11/2009 at 08:43:36
I hate what this guy did, but in his desire to do it, he has overcome many formidable obstacles.
Milton Keynes wasn't even on the football map a decade ago, yet who’d bet against him bringing the Olympics and Premier League football there now?
Maybe we should be looking for a Winkleman rather than an Abromovich...
9 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:06:57
Do the decent thing Bill, and ’sell’ and ’step down’.
10 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:25:58
11 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:15:29
No, I tend to look at information and put my own perspective on it, it's called an opinion, Dan. I have never suggested that I know more than I do, I try to give an insight that's all. But then one has to encounter the people like you who want to ignore facts and look to abuse the person because they can’t argue their opinion. Fair enough. Everyone is entitled to their view on life.
But at least I nailed my colours to the mast and have stuck by them from the beginning. My view has always been that the management of this club let a lot to be desired, that we had been railroaded into a Hobson's Choice decision and continually duped.
At last the page on Kirkby has been seen for what it was, a sham, an opportunistic land grab by Tesco that bulldozed planning regulations by the use of combining an emotive issue such as the new home of Everton Football club.
That our club's executive went along with it either shows that they knew all along they were on thin ice or were incompetent. Which one was it?
Now, we really are between a rock and a hard place, after the exec has done such a good job of destroying any rational for staying at Goodison, how can they switch and say it's the best alternative? Reality says right now it's the only alternative.
But my point of the article was that lack of management, the splitting of the fan base and the utter futility of Kirkby has demonstrated that I for one do not have any faith in the present Board of Directors or Chairman to find a workable solution.
Richard Dodd asked "What if...?" — that's now progressed to "What now...?" I prefer to look at this with the hope that we we ask "What Could Be...?"
The damage was done, the faith was lost. That BK would so quickly want it forgotten is a disgrace in itself and speaks volumes (Let's bury it quick so everyone will forget what was done and said...).
And Adam, well spotted... I too saw the reference to investment, not sale.
Neil, Poverty has been your catchphrase a long time and I agree, we do not have the financial clout to pitch a tent let alone a stadium, but there needs to be a different approach to funding, a different partnership and a different take on how we can go forward. I think the current incumbents have run out of idea (singular).
12 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:36:33
Of course, whether anything else is deliverable, and whether a new owner - charlatan or not - will be interested in taking over a club with huge investment needs in a crumbling stadium... Well, hopefully you will turn out to be right about those things too, we will see.
13 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:27:46
We need another enablement opportunity, someone who is going to subsidise our building costs, and will benefit from having a football stadium in close proximity to whatever they are building.
14 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:40:12
15 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:41:54
I am just wondering if any investment groups were poised to take us over had DK been agreed. At least last week, we had some kind of plan. Now, we are staring at a bleak future. The club seem to be still quite optimistic, but is this just putting on a brave face? It's hard to gauge just how deep in the shit we are.
16 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:44:19
The genie can’t go back in the bottle. Kenwright and the rest on the board cant avoid the fact they are now so lacking in credibility that even their own manager goes rogue and begs on tv for someone to relieve them of their positions.
The nature of the game has fundamentally changed now. It’s just that were all stupefied at the moment in the wake of ’the decision’. We are still in ’facility led’ strategy mode and that hasn’t altered one jot after Denham’s Coup de Grace. Who in God’s name is going to take the current board seriously (investors/partners...supporters!) if they proffer another stadium development? That’s right — no one.
I’m optimistic. I think we stand at the threshold of an era that offers our club a decent chance of surviving and more besides AND retaining our identity (the most precious thing we have, lest we forget). The future begins when the current *ahem* custodians take realistic offers for their shareholdings seriously. I feel the pressure on them will build and build until that point is reached. Their demise as a regime is assured.
17 Posted 28/11/2009 at 09:55:05
The same applies to sickness. In the real world, it is accepted that staff being off work has a detrimental impact on the performance of the business. This also does not apply to football clubs.
I think I am getting the hang of this..... ;-)
18 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:39:03
19 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:24:06
What is worrying about BK is he did not have the the foresight to see the weakneses in DK a lot earlier. Although they could not say so at the time, I am sure that both BK and Elstone will have realised the problems (finding £78 million, no transport plan), and may be thinking that Mr Denham has in some ways got them out of jail.
20 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:42:20
Sickness in football is very different from sickness in business, if a wagon driver or a warehouse guy can't make it to work he doesn't have someone earning thousands a week ready to step in for him.
21 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:47:29
22 Posted 28/11/2009 at 10:47:22
Elstone on the other hand is a different animal, toeing the company line and saying the right words is one thing but I bet you he has been ready for this call more than anyone else.
He has shown commercial saavy and obviously does read these pages so he knows that the fans are not as gullible as the board or Tesco would hope. I just hope he can apply his skills in a proactive rather than merely a supporting player in what ever comes next.
23 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:18:30
Yes, we’re struggling mainly because our only ’flair;’ player(s) is/are absent
As Moyes himself hinted (won’t say stated in case you’ve got a transcript handy)
it’s not the people off sick who are the problem
Since when does having players missing mean the remainder ...
can’t pass a ball to a team-mate?;
turn their backs on play in the area?
play like they’ve never trained together?
The lack of movement, ambition and cash by this Board in the summer gone has contributed to the shambles we are seeing on the pitch. Or don’t you agree?
24 Posted 28/11/2009 at 11:29:05
He is slowly, but surely, destroying our great club. Words can’t describe how much I detest that man.
He will hang on until the death so his ego remains.
Kirkby in my opionion was a fucking sham, it was never gonna get passed. BK fucking gambled and he got it wrong yet again.
It’s funny how BK hardly ever spoke about Kirkby when it was ongoing, when it was never gonna get passed.
He knew it was a fucking sham like FSF. ’A means to an end’ as Ian Ross once said.
But as soon as it’s over he’s saying the chapter is closed.
Well the chapter about kirkby may be over but the kenwright chapter will not be closed until that man, that chancer is out of Everton.
25 Posted 28/11/2009 at 13:54:54
Investers, sorry for my ignorance but does this word mean buyer/ for sale?
Again a MASSIVE thanks to KEIOC who overcame the lies of the club, the media/Echo, Radio Merseyside/City and others who were on the propaganda wagon to DK.
26 Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:20:47
That is what David Moyes is meaning when he says investors may now come forward. The people who have really lost out through the DK rejection are those who have a financial interest in the club as whilst we were still making a significant contribution to the scheme we were getting the stadium for roughly half price if figures are to be believed.
I believe Everton is an attractive investment with or without the new stadium and I have a feeling we will have new ownership before the start of next season — we will see...
27 Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:37:19
However you paint the picture, Everton were — and still are — desperate for a new home, and Kirkby offered them that at what the club considered was an affordable price. Of course, King’s Dock was a much more attractive proposition but for reasons of his own — and not least because it would have put the club in hoc to the Greggs — Bill decided not to proceed. He may well rue that decision now but he was not alone in believing the deal did not stack up at the time.
As I said in my ’What happens if...’ piece a fortnight ago, I fear for the future of the club if Bill says enough is enough. Of course there will be Pompey-style sheiks anxious to snap up Everton for a song (and no doubt bring in a Sven to ’assist’ our Davey). But is that what you and your disciples really want for the club?
No chairman in the game is everybody’s cup of tea but, all in all, Bill does a good job for us and has brought a stability so lacking in about 90% of League clubs in this era. I always plead for patience, understanding and a little more loyalty to the cause. Any fool can knock — and my god, do you like knocking — just let’s see a little more of the Evertonian from you dear lady!
28 Posted 28/11/2009 at 14:41:26
I personally feel BK’s position is untenable as surely he has had enough false dawns and missed opportunities, but wanting him long gone and actually seeing him leave are miles apart without a massive groundswell similar to that for the forced departure of Peter Johnson.
Dan regarding the state of the club with Peter Johnson as opposed to the state of it with Bill Kenwright; you could say with PJ worse managers apart from Joe Royle but financially better, Bill Kenwright far better manager (but desperately needs to change defensive habits) but financially an absolute shambles in spite of better football and much more money from TV rights and higher finishes in the league and european football. You could argue about the rise in wages in line with the Sky money, but compared to other clubs we pay a whole lot less in salaries and have the smallest squad in the EPL.
29 Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:00:15
Care to tell Christine and the rest of us which it is?
30 Posted 28/11/2009 at 15:13:20
As far as misinformation is concerned, I don’t go out of my way — as so many do on this site — to plead doom and destruction at every opportunity. True, ’official sources’ are always inclined to put a positive spin on things (and perhaps I’m a little too gullible) but what’s wrong with seeing the bright side? Life’s full of woe and at least for me Everton is ray of sunshine — win or lose — DK or no DK. Get back to your misery room GR, you seem happiest there!
31 Posted 28/11/2009 at 16:22:15
"Billy Bullshit" is to most people an absolute charlatan whether you like it or not... and the sooner you get your head out of his arse, the better it will be for everybody.
32 Posted 28/11/2009 at 16:53:22
BTW is "gullible" a posh word for twat ?
33 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:04:07
Kenwright is nothing but an incompetent liar and, although some people see the sun shining out of his arse, others see him for what he is. However, even those described as apologists are now beginning to see the cracks in his makeup.
As you’re so "well informed", you will know that all Gregg wanted for his £35 million contribution was some security or Bill to change the shareholding structure — he did not want to "hock" the club.
Then your "god" contrived "the check will be in the bank in the morning" Fortress Sports Fund as another of his smoke-&-mirrors tricks.
You will also know that the reason the club hasn't been sold is because Earl and Green were controlling the sale and NOTHING was going to happen until DK got the nod.
Did your inside sources reveal all that to you? Thought not!!
34 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:15:04
And since when is "Doh!" an answer to a question? Short of drug smuggling, arms running & money laundering, why does it matter where someone’s money comes from? Since when do fans or customers of something have a right to know the insides of every pigs arse?
Are you one of the people clambering for a billionaire? And would you be as forensic in analysing the sources of any billionaire’s wealth as you clearly are with Kenwright and anyone associated with him.
Can I suggest sticking to the point & avoiding nonsense. And for the record, I too am bored shitless with people like Christine using every piece of news about the club as an opportunity to beat up Kenwright.
There is a small part of me that almost (just almost) wishes some unknown faceless "billionaire" would come along and snap up EFC amidst great hullabaloo. Only to then find out it’s Mike Fuckwit Ashley, or a Thai arms dealer, or a fake sheikh. It’s sad that there are so many naive people out there that actually believe Kenwright is the worst thing that ever happened to EFC and that it can’t get any worse.
Want a bet?
35 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:22:12
Then, with theatrical aplomb which only your ilk actually fall for, he contrived the utter fantasism, which even you would have been proud of, "the FSF cheque is in the post"... closely aligned with a Trinity News paper defamation of Mr Gregg as a non-football loving character who never comes to the game and would be detrimental to keep.
Funny Kenwright never mentions the fact he had already exited stage left at Goodison to catch a train the day Rooney scored "that goal"... or his lies to supporters who are still watching fresh air space... or his disgraceful responses at the ESCLA meeting: "Don’t ask me — I’m just the chairman", equally as derisory as "I’m not going to answer that question" at the Shareholders Forum, or his silence during the whole Desperation Kirkby farce.
But hey, it’s ok while the club has subservient quislings willing to revert to the three wise monkeys on all matters Kenwright and forgive his mismanagement and catalogue of monumental fuckups. Stick to your shrine, Richard it’s got even less followers now.
Desperation Kirkby — mission aborted. Taxi?
36 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:34:10
37 Posted 28/11/2009 at 17:59:11
Even Neil, Dan and many other pro-Kirkbyites haven’t plumbed the depths that you have just done; wishing the club to decline under a new owner to prove a point. It would have been better for you never to have submitted such an appalling comment.
38 Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:15:34
The man himself says that he needs to step aside because he does not have the financial strength for a modern football club. We all agree, perhaps even Doddy.
Given who we have seen taking over other Premier League clubs, anyone who thinks we should simply accept the first person who comes along waving a bit of a dosh is an irresponsible lunatic. We all surely agree that Kenwright should exercise extreme care in selling the club and, if that means he is in charge a little longer, so be it.
So: he should step aside when we get a new owner to whom we can safely entrust our club. What is there to argue about?
Maybe when Kenwright finally leaves we can indulge ourselves in the rather academic debate as to what extent he was saint, and to what extent sinner. But even then I expect that it will be fairly obvious to all but the extremists that he was quite a bit of both.
39 Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:35:08
Hypothetically that’s true but the opposite is also true, the alternative may actually be better. Indeed, the current Board are performing so poorly that it’s hardly going to be an impossible task for their successor(s) to impress.
All change carries risks, but without change the potential for progress is severely restricted. Wasn’t this one of the reasons some chose to support DK — because they felt the club had to risk making that change?
40 Posted 28/11/2009 at 19:48:28
What happened with DK was that it fell foul of planning regulations or rather planning philosophies. Where do we go from here? Who knows... but one thing is clear, getting a ground within the city will take years. If you think DK was complex, wait till you see the objections to just about any site that’s close to a residential area.
And finally I’ve posted this many times on TW, I think BK should step aside, as he isn’t rich enough for the modern game, but all the posters who are saying BK must go, could you give me the names of people who have stated an interest in buy or investing in the club?
Still, look on the bright side — it's nearly Christmas and as most of you appear to still believe in him, maybe we’ll get a billionaire for Christmas.
41 Posted 28/11/2009 at 20:52:54
I’ve got more faith in Father Christmas than I have in Bill Kenwright
At least, the bearded one hasn’t disappointed me as often over the years
42 Posted 28/11/2009 at 21:20:10
However, most of the debate, somewhat understandably, tended to focus on what a poor idea the whole scheme was for EFC. It’s just a shame the club didn’t put aside some of the money they wasted on the project to pay for some expert planning advice at the outset as it might have saved a lot of time & money.
43 Posted 28/11/2009 at 21:54:19
Alan Kirwin, "I am bored shitless with people like Christine using every bit of news about the club to beat up Kenwright." I feel the same way about everything you write too...
I am sure there are many other apologists who believe like you that BK is one of us, that he is doing his best for us and that his heart is in the right place. That he took the best advice from a couple of the best businessmen around and still failed to deliver. How unlucky is that? I am sure too that many have trust and faith in the guy to deliver eventually. I don’t.
Everton FC need a fresh start with a new leader at the helm.
Everton FC need to heal the rift they caused with the fans.
The current relationship between an Everton Fan and the club is akin to an abusive marriage. One party still loves the other and the other doesn’t care that the relationship has broken down.
How do you fix it? You talk and get the relationship back or walk away.
Who is the taxi for?
44 Posted 28/11/2009 at 22:11:03
45 Posted 28/11/2009 at 22:59:01
It's been a joke and so have Everton FC. The whole ordeal (and that is exactly what it was) was horrendous.
It's over now and we can move on. My only concern/differing opinion with your article is that Kenwright can find investment if it's there to be found but we can’t force him out. He owns part of the club and without providing him adequate compensation, we (as fans) can't change a thing!
46 Posted 29/11/2009 at 00:32:30
He and the Board should be looking at ways the club can improve continuously until Everton is sold. I'm not saying he isn't doing, but the fact that we haven't really progressed off the pitch too far in the last 5 years is kind of testament to that fact.
On a different note, I do have one question with regards to the ’poverty’/’we cant afford a ground anywhere else’ opinion. IF the council gave us free land... and IF we can actually get our hands on the supposed £78M for DK... then why must we need another enabling partner for a new stadium?
From what I have read, Tesco were giving us sweet FA financially and therefore the cost of the stadium itself was £78M plus the land. Surely this means (providing we could still raise the £78M for the new stadium) we could build a similar design (hopefully better) on any site that was deemed good enough (transport/size etc) for the same price if LCC or whoever gave us the land?
For example if we go the Loop site free (providing it's big enough) then could we not build a stadium of £78M’s worth on the plot?
47 Posted 29/11/2009 at 03:28:05
48 Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:07:33
49 Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:08:12
So what if WE ALL hold our water and see how he re-acts in the present ’crisis’? Let’s see what plans emerge to take the club foreward both on and off the field. What positive moves he and the CEO make towards bringing in investment and securing a new ground or re-vitalising Goodison Park.
If we hear nothing on these issues by Christmas, even I will begin to believe Bill and his Board are clueless. But I just think we might all be pleasantly surprised as to what pops out of Santa BB’s bag!
50 Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:24:18
All you can do is try to sell only to a party who is reasonably well-known and reputable, and who is known to have a reasonably secure financial situation. Just using those simple criteria would have ruled out many recent Premier League owners.
51 Posted 29/11/2009 at 09:36:36
52 Posted 29/11/2009 at 10:15:35
It simply MUST be inside Liverpool. Yes I know its restricts options, I also understand you cant please everyone, but the merest hint of a stadium outside of the City will have us split down the middle all over again.
Let's put the idea to bed, for good.
53 Posted 29/11/2009 at 10:43:34
54 Posted 29/11/2009 at 11:39:57
Richard, I’ll hold you to your word. Please don’t forget investment and sale are two completely different words and if just investment on what terms that not one has appeared over the last few years?
55 Posted 29/11/2009 at 18:22:42
This never-ending flow of invective that is thrown at Bill Kenwright sickens me. The man is an Evertonian who has acquired enough money from friends or relations to buy the club. There are many who would like to have been able to do likewise but didn’t have the moneyed friends or acquaintances to do so.
He is a theatre Impresario and from all accounts a good one but that does not qualify him as a good Soccer Club chairman. He has done what he believes was in the best interests of the club and if, he has erred, it was surely from the best intentions, not as so many have inferred to line his pockets in some way.
So DK is now yesterday's news. Let us, as BK has suggested, move on. Just where we can go from here, I certainly don’t know. Nobody writing on this site has made any suggestions whilst contributing to this thread.
But move on, I feel, is what we have to do and continually carping and using insulting language about BK does not seem to me to be particularly constructive.
The trouble seems to me that most contributors, either pro- or anti-BK, have no constructive comments to make. Why do so many think BK is a charlatan? Give us YOUR ideas.
Whether some investor or billionaire will turn up now is unknown by any of us. Maybe there are leads which the Board can follow up. In the interim let's have no more of the scurrilous postings that I have read on this thread today. Its insulting to some great Evertonians who have gone before us.
56 Posted 29/11/2009 at 19:09:42
I don’t have personal knowledge of BK, but he is a public figure and a prominent figure at that. I judge Mr Kenwright on his words and more importantly, his actions.
According to you, I have to had spent some time in his company before forming an opinion on him... Utter rot.
57 Posted 29/11/2009 at 19:14:16
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